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former american governor larry hogan has been more outspoken than most republicans when it comes to the former president. he's coming up first. plus i have a few thoughts about rfk junior after housework about guns platforms his dangerous conspiracy theories this week on capitol hill. stacey plaskett is the ranking democrat on the committee that heard the testimony and she joins me live. later a walk in the park with congressman jamie raskin. we talk shakespeare battling cancer and how he copes with tragedy wells fighting for democracy. >> so, on friday judge aileen cannon announced at the trial in the classified documents case is set to take place on may 20th of next year. if you just did a little bit of math there, you are right that fall smack in the middle of the heat of the 2024 presidential campaign. it means that trump could

already be the presumptive nominee by the time he goes to trial. not only that, it means he could be convicted and even sentence before election day. this raises all sorts of questions, frankly, there are questions that we as a country have never had to grapple with before. we are going to try to dig into some of those today on this show. also this week, special counsel jack smith and form trump that he is a target in the january 6th investigation. i want to have a sidebar on that for a moment. i'm guilty of this too. we all need to stop short handing this case as the january 6th investigation. here is why because as vicious and violent as that day was and it was both of those things, the insurrection was the culmination of a coordinated attempt to steal the 2020 election. the loud physical attack on the capitol followed a quiet months-long attack on the rule of law and democracy itself. it involves creating slates of

fake electors pledged to donald trump in states he had lost. it involves attempts to co-opt the department of justice to promote the big lie. it involves misleading donors and fund raising off of falsehoods and then of course it involves standing back as a mob descended on the u.s. capitol. all of these things are pieces in the larger puzzle that check smith is putting together as he investigates trump's systematic effort to stop the transfer of power overturn a legitimate election and incite a violent mob to attack our nation's capital. so, let's all stopped short handing it as the january 6th investigation because as we prevented it from happening in the future it's important to recognize this was more than a single day. now some republicans have been slice like closer to wards criticizing trump, the balance has remained silent. the next guest has been anything but silence. joining me now is former maryland governor larry hogan.

so, you are a savvy political guy having been elected as a republican governor in a blue state. if we are looking toward a potential indictment in the overturn the efforts to overturn the election do you think that could change the dynamics in the republican primary? so far none of these indictments or legal troubles have hurt trump it seems. >> it hasn't hurt trump the way most people would imagine it should have hurt trump it has impacted the dynamic of the republican primary race. the fact that nobody else can get any traction or attention because all we are talking about is donald trump's legal troubles. while people haven't elect trump as quickly as i would've hoped there are about half the people in the republican primary who do not want donald trump they just can't decide on which of the other 11 candidates they want to support. they aren't getting much oxygen or airtime. >> you have been not not silent. you have been calling out former president trump for his

involvement and his efforts to overturn the election. you did tweet this week though, quote, we have two very unpopular potential nominees. both of them potentially face very serious legal troubles. it sounds like with that tree tweets, don't give away the context, you are drawing an equivalence there. i just want to give you an opportunity to kind of cleared. up are you comparing trump's efforts to overturn the election with legal troubles or legal issues of joe biden. ? >> i've been critical of donald trump since day one. at the very beginning when he was trying to put up the false lies about the stolen election i was the first republican in america to speak out against it. i was very involved in the actual events of january six. what i said and -- >> i know you. are you are very outspoken. that's what i want to ask you about that tweet to clear up what you meant. it sounds like equivalency there. >> the tweet came from an appearance on another network where they asked a question about it.

my answer was that we do have 70% of people in america do not want donald trump or joe biden to be president. they are both historically low approval numbers and they both are potentially facing legal troubles that's all very true and i wasn't trying to make a correlation on which troubles were more important than the other. obviously, trump's been indicted. he probably will be indicted multiple more times and the current president has not. he certainly has some legal issues that he's concerned about. >> on that note i think we can all agree that there is a difference between not abiding by a subpoena and returning highly classified documents and voluntarily returning documents. if that's -- on the documents it's very clear there are investigations going on on all sorts of things involving the biden family that are also an abstraction from voters when we should be focused on who should be the next president. >> i want to move. and there's a lot to cover. hunch and hunter biden is not

in. office is not serving in government. i think we can all agree it's not equivalent. >> i agree with. that >> i wanted to ask. you answered this a number of. times bear with me. would you categorically rule out voting for donald trump if he is the republican nominee? >> yes i've said that over and over again i didn't vote for him in either the other two elections >> given that you said also that you don't think he'll be the nominee, are there candidates you've been critical of desantis. are there candidates out there that could have a shot at taking him on. >> i'm a little frustrated at this point in time as. i said a moment ago. nobody is getting traction trump's at 15% in most polls and most of the other folks there are 12 candidates. six of them are my former colleagues. i know most of the candidates running. i think maybe seven or eight of them are really capable and good candidates. they are not getting much attention i am hoping that someone will rise up and become

a candidate that i can get excited about and get behind someone that had some more hopeful positive messages that could take the party in a different direction. as we sit here, today i can't tell you who that's going to be. >> since you know that, well i know you're not endorsing someone, you're welcome to. who should get more attention, who is being undervalued are estimated? look, i think of course donald trump is getting all the attention. he is the elephant in the room. desantis was getting wall-to-wall coverage. it's mostly been about his campaign failing to launch an, being in the wrong direction. there are whole bunch of other folks that just are not getting anyone to pay attention other tim scott has got a positive message. he is starting to come. and he's raised a lot of money, he's doing, i think he's now moved into third place in iowa. chris christie came from nowhere to be in third place. >> chris christie, you endorsed him. why not now? >> i'm waiting to see how he performs. he's a very good friend. i'm glad he's out there. he's taking it to donald trump,

he speaking truth to power. we've got to see who has the best chance of winning the election. >> you said you are considering, a third party run. you also did put out, i, noticed a couple people, many people, did a couple campaign style videos. you've been out there quite publicly. if you were offered or asked to serve as the, as a third party nominee, would you be open to that? >> look i've been involved in this organization for a, while five years ago i started group called america united. i was the honorary co-chair of no labels. i'm a big believer and bipartisan cooperation and reaching across the aisle to get things done. that's how i was successful in the blue state in america. this is far too often the future. we don't know what's going to happen. i've said if nobody wants the candidate a or b, maybe there will be a candidate speedy. right, now i'm focused on getting the republican party on track and trying to nominate a

good republican that can do a better job and can potentially win a race in november. >> so, an nbc poll did show that 44% of registered voters would consider voting for a third party candidate. those are the numbers that i have. that is not that uncommon. back in 2016 that number was 46%. it's a bit higher and would you acknowledge that the appetite for a third party candidate is not unique necessarily to this year? >> no i would totally disagree with that. the polling suggests otherwise. >> that's one poll you're citing. there are dozens and dozens of polls that would give you a really clear facts. so, 70% of the people america do not want biden or trump. they don't want a rematch. >> well, hold on, they don't want each, they don't want them to run. that does not mean that they have a desire an appetite for a third party candidate. >> let me give you some more polls. 59% of the people say they would, one says 50, 91 says 64%. they would consider a third party alternative. there is another poll that this came out this week that says

given the choice between trump, biden, and neither, neither wins. in my lifetime, we have never had a time ever, even close to this, 49, percent are registered independent that's up about 25 points from 25 years ago. i'm not saying it's going to happen. there is more of an appetite for us than ever before in history. >> well, you can't have something with nothing. we all agree with that. so, is there any polling you have that suggests that any of the third party candidates mentioned, yourself, joe lieberman, others they could beat donald trump and joe biden. >> the campaign hadn't been run yet, you don't know what it looks. like the only place we've been on the ballot together i do pretty well, i finished my eight years as governor with 77% approval rating, the highest in the country. it was over 70 with democrats and independents and republicans. of, course i'm not well-known across the country. you know, you have to run a race to see what is going to look. like >> --

>> ray now the people are pretty far ahead from where they have been before for voting for party. >> back in 2016, also when there is an appetite for a third party candidate, there was a third party candidate, jill stein, when more votes than the margin between trump and clinton. it may have made the difference. it did make the difference it probably put trump over the edge so, how can you be so confident that -- how can the labels be so confident that a third party won't elect trump? >> well you have a third party candidate now. the green party candidate is polling for a 5% away from completely -- if you want to talk about a spoiler, they should talk about cornell west, they should focus in on the people that are pulling 30% of the people in the primary. no labels has an idea that maybe if we get to this point where nobody in america -- would want them, they would run a ticket. they don't know who they, are they don't know who they would pull from, whether be a republican or democrat.

there are obviously issues and flaws, we wouldn't have two candidates, -- >> governor, hogan thank you for joining me here this afternoon. i appreciate you taking the time. up, next there's so many questions now -- the trial date has been sent. can anything put it should pass the election? can we see cameras? i have the perfect person to ask. plus my thoughts on what the rights -- when it reveals about their playbook. later, congressman jamie raskin's weekend routine, a wide ranging conversation about how he handled personal grief while fighting for our democracy. we are just getting started today. we will be right back. right back. i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2.

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could happen between now and may of 2024 and trump's lawyers will no doubt try to use every delay tactic in the book to draw out the legal proceedings. but apart from that, there are practical questions about how this trial actually take place. will trump as a former president and current presidential contender gain any special considerations from judge cannon? and how the breakneck pace of the campaign impact how trump stand trial? i can't think of anybody better to dig into these questions and neil cattle, he's a former acting solicitor general and msnbc legal analyst. i have so many questions but i want to start just kind of with the timeline of this. i know you have said that there is no reason for a delay, but there's also every reason to think the trump's legal term wants to delay the process. i mentioned some of them a what tactic are you going to be watching for that you expect they might try to deploy? >> first of all jim, i think that donald trump had a really terrible week, not just because

of this may 20th schedule in the stolen documents case but also receiving a target letter from jack smith that you mentioned a moment ago about the january 6th and it is leading up to january six, potential crimes that donald trump committed. so i think the bottom line in the news today this week is that it's very likely that donald trump is going to be facing two more additional indictments from jack smith and from georgia from saint before barbenheimer leaves the theaters. it's really that severe for him. and with respect to the timing here, you are absolutely right. may 20th if it holds is inappropriate day, it's a day while before the election, it's a date that can accommodate the campaign schedule in the like, but trump is going to try to intake every single thing on an appeal. he's going to say for example that their use of classified information in that procedure constitutes is via

constitutionalists. it is attorney client evidence is being introduced in this criminal trial and that violates israel as well. the good thing about our system though is that it is written so that defendants can't slow down and take in turn but we call interlocutory or intermediate appeals to the court of appeals or u.s. supreme court. you have to wait till the end of the trial. so trump can try but i think right now may 20th is the trial data couldn't very well should hold. >> that's incredibly helpful and i was waiting for the oppenheimer rest fronts we haven't had initial yet today. i've also when asked, we've been in this terrible week for trump, another version of indictment watch because of that target letter that was sent. but we also learned about a whole number of high-level witnesses who jack smith and his team want to talk to. what does that all tell you about the timing of a potential indictment? should we all be pressing refresh? could it be longer than this week? >> i think we should be

pressing refresh. i think it's likely that something will happen this week. so jack smith sent this target letter to donald trump saying we are looking at you specifically for the violation of three criminal statutes. he doesn't have to do that under the justice department rules but it's very common. and it doesn't mean that he's guaranteed it will be an indictment. sometimes target letters are sent in there's no indictment that is ultimately caught brought. here i think however i think all indications indicate that there's an indictment. you don't senatorial letter to a former president unless you're pretty darn sure that you have the goods, and it does look like jackson and has the goods. there are reports of the fact that jeff governor kemp from georgia has been called before jack smith to provide evidence about the fake electors plot. there are suggestions mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff may have provided evidence against him to the jack smith investigation. that is of course what we all know.

we saw for two months what donald trump did after the november election and all of the different things the january 6th committee has uncovered a lot, leading a very respective federal judge, david judge david carter of california, say that it's more likely than not that donald trump committed a series of felonies including two of which remained in the jacks mitt target letter. >> so, in that target letter kind of outline to the charters that many of us can ex expected. can furious conspiracy to defraud the united states and, obstruction of upper official proceeding. what was more surprising to not lawyers with say -- on the deprivation of light rights. what was your reaction to seeing that in a target letter? >> gratitude. i said that from the beginning that statute 18, u.s. 1841 which wasn't enacted to prevent the ku klux klan from depriving newly-freed african americans

of the right to vote and other things, that that was an appropriate statute to use. it really does describe what donald trump did, which is that he conspired with others to deprive others of the civil rights, in particular what he was doing with his henchmen was saying to state legislators, hey there is no fraud here, you can throw out the vote in your state and just send your own hand picked slate of electors to washington, d.c. to count in the electoral college, and deprive all of the citizens in the state like arizona or georgia other votes. that is a preposterous legal theory and i just targeted version of it in the united states supreme court in a case called more forces harper. it is so anti-democratic, so corrosive and 18 usc to 41 is exactly the way to think about coming after it. >> neil castillo, thank you as always for providing tons of

clarity for all this legal stuff we are all following. a really appreciated. up next. my thoughts on republicans admiration for rfk junior. after a week in which they gave him a megaphone on capitol hill. congressman stacey -- spoke up forcibly against him in that hearing and she's back with us after live. we're back after a quick break. quick break with artificial intelligence, groundbreaking transparent hood technology, and intuitive design inside and out. ♪ ♪ this is the all-new glc. completely reimagined. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue.

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and that gap is apparently widening as people get to know more about him. but foxes published more than 80 articles and videos about kennedy since he launched his campaign in april. and just put that in perspective, that kind of expansive coverages usually reserved over there for mickey mouse, communist, our b and other topics along those lines. and more coverage seems to becoming. sean hannity is going to be hosting a town hall with rfk junior this week. even republican lawmakers love this guy. when rfk junior testified this week at tim hortons hearing of the so-called government weapons as asian committee, he gave him a special. listen >> mr. kennedy finds himself the scorn of both the political left and right, because of one there's challenging orthodoxy the powers that be, won as their enemy. as a graduate of the university of virginia, mr. kennedy noted knows the following quote, for here we are four here we are not afraid to follow truth

wherever it may lead. >> with all this talk of challenging orthodoxy which by the way, orthodoxy i think he means science, it really makes you wonder what does this kennedy stand for that has the right so head over heels for him? is it is years of work as an anti-vaccine advocate? his repeatedly bunk rebuttal claim that vaccines cause autism? visit trafficking in a variety of covid vaccine theories instead of ones involving microchips being inserted into all of our bodies? are they fans of his recent comments that covid was quote ethnically targeted to spare chinese and jewish people? or is it is decision that atlanta presents like prozac have caused the rise of school shootings in america? obviously, completing the insane and not true. or that wi-fi causes cancer and something called leaky brain whatever that might be? or that his claim that chemicals in the water can be turning kids transgender? i couldn't even cover all of

these outlandish crazy claims because we need to continue with our show, but rfk junior has a long list of them. and i'd like to know which ones make house republicans so easier to platform him. or maybe it's really not about rfk jr. at all but instead about joe biden. like that saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. that may be more just egypt sense, but it would be incredibly cynical if republicans were elevating a conspiracy theories who spews false and inaccurate lies, something can even be damaging to the public and public health, just to create trouble for their political opponent. i mean, that would be a leap even for the right to embrace a candidate in or enamored with conspiracies just means to advance their own political objectives. they have never saw that low before or having? >> do you accept that president obama was born in the united states. >> i really don't know.

>> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald's being you no shot. i mean the whole thing is ridiculous. >> all of this was with global warming, a lot of it is a hoax. it's a hoax. >> if you have any windmill near your house, congratulations. your house just went down 75% in value. and they say the noise causes cancer. you tell me that. when >> you know, there are those that say you can test too much, you do know that? who says? that >> we were getting ready to win this election. frankly we did win this election. >> so maybe, just maybe the problem isn't just rfk jr. or even donald trump? maybe the problem is the tendency to give credence to conspiracy theorists. here's the thing. there are two explanations, only two here for why the wright loves rfk jr. so much. one is that they generally believe in him, and that his conspiracies deserve to be amplified in the national conversation.

they think those conspiracies should be out there. the other explanation is that they don't believe rfk junior could be beneficial to them if they don't give a megaphone anyway. so no matter how bizarre and dangerous's conspiracies are, it doesn't matter. one explanation is ignorance, the other is cynicism. both are pretty embarrassing for the right-wing machine trying to prop up this man's machine. congresswoman stacy plaskett is a ranking member on the committee that heard rfk junior's testimony this week, and she joins me after a quick break. and our latest weekend routine, i discussed everything from springsteen to shakespeare with congressman jamie raskin when i joined him for a hike just outside washington. we'll be right back. right back. thousands demonstrated in israel today protesting a right-wing's government proposed judicial overhaul. a vote on that measure is expected monday.

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they give you lies about vaccines or threats to the safety of witnesses, because nothing, nothing is more important to them and power. >> and congresswoman stacy plaskett, the ranking democrat on the subcommittee of government weaponization joins me now. so you were very critical of republicans forgiving rfk junior a platform. i'm just trying to figure out why they did this. you outlined a little bit there but do you think they're actually on board with these conspiracy theories? it's all about political power in hurting joe biden and other democrats? what's your take on that? >> sure, thanks so much for having me here with. you i think there are two levels to what the republicans are doing, specifically on this committee. the first is as we said, giving rfk jr. a platform which is a direct shot at biden and at his presidency because rfk jr. as says he's running in the democratic primary.

so they think he's going to you know, kind of heard him a little bit. i believe that over the next year americans are really going to learn what the biden administration has done to support american families and drive down inflation and all the good work that they are doing. so that is something that i'm not as concerned with. i think that what is more insidious is that what they are giving individuals like rfk jr. to a platform to desensitize americans and allies to also make the biden administration, social media platforms and others hesitant about stopping untruths. stopping misinformation, and stopping what will happen during the height of the 2024 election, presidential election, which are russian, iranian and chinese trolls that are going on to those social media platforms and trying to suppress the american vote. >> you gave such a powerful opening statement. that was the most clear articulations of i have heard of why the republican antisense

ship argument is bogus. what are the key points the which other democrats and others should be making out there about that argument? >> well, you know first of all they want to talk about censorship. but anytime you point out untruths, you are censoring you are stopping people from speaking. it's not that we are stopping people from speaking, people can speak, but we are also going to give the american people the truth so that they can have science and facts and history against wild, outlandish claims that the republicans are trying to get. that's not only going to keep them from going to the polls, suppressing vote or telling untruths, but is also really detrimental to the american people. i mean, rfk has put forth ideas that are both antisemitic, racist against not just chinese but has been -- his and his group have been a cause of measles outbreaks in

minnesota, against somalian communities, telling black americans not to be vaccinated at all, while his own children are vaccinated. and really trying to break down americans belief in the rule of law in truth, as it should be. >> the vaccinating asking to be vaccinated to attend's event that he was hosting or something like that, versus telling people not to be vaccinated is really startling. such an interesting thing to call out. this week there was also a lot of news on the legal front as it relates to the former president. and the washington post published a piece that really stuck out to me just about how intertwined on trump's campaign as been with his legal defense. just over half the money he raised last quarter went to an affiliated pack that is footing his legal bills. your republican colleagues continue to support him of course, but is this campaign becoming increasingly about keeping him out of prison?

and how is that even allowed to use so much of that money for his own legal defense? >> well, i don't know the ftc rules with regards to that, but i do recognize that what donald trump has done is telling his base that him being in jail is them being in jail. trying to say that the insurrectionists and those who have been charged rightly by our fbi, the department of justice for the crimes that they committed are in fact them being put to crimes. so it's this fear factor of their own lives that he's trying to intertwined himself with, which went jen we know that his life is nothing like a regular americans. the kind of privileges in the kinds of work that his children have been able to do, utilizing the white house for their own financial gain is nothing like what would happen in a regular americans life. but he is really driven his base to believe that

imprisoning him isn't imprisoning them, which is absolutely ludicrous. what the department of justice is doing is saying that no one is above the law. >> you are pretty steep deeply into the details of donald trump's actions as a former former impeachment manager. i asked one of your colleagues jeanne raskin this question, but i'm curious as we all wait for any potential indictment over trump's efforts to overturn the election, what questions do you hope jack smith's investigation will shed light on the maybe didn't have time on or when you are looking into this? >> sure. what i, as many people may know jamie raskin is not only my colleague was my law school professor. so i have enormous respect for him and the work that he's been able to do in the fight that he has for our republic. you know, the impeachment that was done and we wanted to do that impeachment while the president was still in office. mitch mcconnell dragged it

until after the swearing in of president biden. but we really just had kind of a skeleton and then the january 6th committee run fabulously by benny thompson was able to put some sinew on what happened on january 6th and lead up to it as you said jen was just so important. this was something that happened over protracted period of time. the things that i am hoping that we will hear from jack smith who has subpoena power, who can force people to come in and testify, which the committee was unable to do, as well as the impeachment didn't was to actually hear conversations. to hear from the people who are closest to the president, to have the documents, for us to be able to see explicitly what the president was thinking in the lead up and not only what he was thinking, but what he did to try to destroy our democracy. >> congresswoman stacy plaskett,

thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. up next, congressman jamie raskin on a deeply personal trauma he suffered just before the national trauma of january 6th. we talked about that and much more during a hike through one of his favorite places on earth. that conversation is coming up after a quick break. after a quick break. imagine you're doing something you love. rsv could cut it short. ♪ rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations... ...in adults 60 and older... ...and adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv.com. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need.

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don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. ask your dermatologist about sotyktu for clearer skin. so clearly you. sotyktu. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv during his six years representing maryland's eighth district in congress, jamie raskin's distinguished himself

as a champion of american democracy. as a constitutional scholar turned congressman, he's best known for the impassioned case he made against donald trump when citing the january 6th insurrection during trump's second impeachment. but, as i learned his interest range from william shakespeare to bruce springsteen. in fact, it was a member of rain springsteen's east creek band gave him the distinctive bananas he's more since his chemo femur therapy for lymphoma last year. i recently joined a congressman for a walk a, hike in which he discussed that and the deeply story of losing his own son. >> welcome to the congressional district. >> i'm happy to be here. shall we go? >> let's go hiking! >> so hiking is a part of your life. it's part of what you do an regular basis. how long of you? hiked >> i grew up hiking this park or i would go with other

people but yeah, i remember this area well from when i was a kid and we took all over kids hiking here in rock creek park, and it's really an absolutely magical place. as you can see with very thick tree canopy. this is the boundary bridge connecting maryland to washington, d.c.. went donald trump was inaugurated and my colleague john lewis called for quick -- i would decide not to, go i went for a quick i can invite all my constituents to come with me. >> i just answered remission from cancer which is amazing news. how are you feeling? >> thank you for asking chen. i feel hugely better from what i was feeling in the thick of chemo. it was a brutal process, but i'm healthy and i'm very grateful for that. >> you've kind of brought

bandanas back in the style i would say. you've got one from some pretty famous person, stephen van sant. >> no i got a dozen. from >> him or get a dozen. from what was reaction? >> i couldn't believe it. i put one on when my hair really started to follow with chemo and then a reporter said to me, you know what are you doing? are you dressed up like a pirate? i said no i'm dressed up like stephen vansant, because i was thought it was a cool look and i thought that would be a good way to do it. he saw the article, and he sent me a big bag of these bandanas and he said these are not a president they are a handmade hunt. >> he had used them! >> yeah! >> now i know they were big shakespeare families i've heard you quoting shakespeare. how did that start? you have a favorite, player sonnett? >> well, yeah i guess it started in high school when i first started reading the place

including romeo and juliet and 12th night. we have a great shakespeare for young people group in my district called looman eye and i've re-written some of the place for the purposes of young people producing that. that's a wonderful feeling to see the light bulbs going off when they understand what's going on in the play? >> so we sit down for a few minutes? >> sure. who >> so this is a place you have spent a lot of time with your family hiking including your son tommy? how did you connect with him in the park here hiking? >> >> tommy had come home in the spring semester of 2020 when they closed harvard law school down. who's a second year law school. often times tom and i would just come to the park and take a long hike. there is no or else really to

go, and after we lost time in the last day of 2020, you know i would come back to the park and get to recall the times we had together and think about him. it's been a hard time for our family, it's been a long road. tommy said often it's hard to be human, and it is hard to be human. he called on everyone to be as compassionate and as decent as possible to everyone. >> in a period of time after you lost tommy was also the insurrection and the attack on our nation's capital. your daughter was with you that just feel like a lot of trauma happening in one period of time. how did you even move forward? >> well when going through any of those traumas you don't really experience yourself as having any choice other than to

go through it and try to respond the best the camp and in some ways the shocking catastrophic loss of tommy was a certain kind of armor against the violence and the chaos of january 6th. because i already suffered the absolute worst thing i could ever imagine, and when this was going on i just experienced a lot of anger and a lot of wonder about how exactly this all happened in who set it up. i didn't feel fear at that point. >> trump has been a test on our system in no questions so many ways. there is no precedent for so many of these actions that he is engaged in. is our system prepared for that?

>> look, it's up to us. every generation has to decide how to choose. will the 21st century be a century of democracy and freedom and use of all the extraordinarily new technologies to expand human happiness and prosperity? or is it going to be use of the technologies by bullies and autocrats and tyrants to oppress people. and you can see it going in either direction. >> i also want to know if there is a work of shakespeare, because they're a lot of tragedies in their, that reminds me of the time we are living in? >> well there is a passage in the tempest, the whole isn't in all the devils are here. i thought about that a number of times. over the last few years. >> thank you for taking me to one of your favorite spots, which i think it is now one of my favorite. spots >> you welcome anytime. the pleasures all mind jen.

and it's all free here, it's a public. park >> i appreciated i'm coming back! thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you congressman raskin for showing me one of your favorite hiking trails and for such a candid conversation. coming back after a very quick break. don't go anywhere. nywhere. charmin ultra soft has so much cushiony softness, it's hard for your family to remember they can use less. sweet pillows of softness! this is soft! holy charmin! oh! excuse me! roll it back, everybody! - sorry! - sorry! - sorry!

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hi, i'm katie, i've lost 110 pounds on golo in just over a year. golo is different than other programs i had been on because i was specifically looking for something that helped with insulin resistance. i had had conversations with my physician indicating that that was probably an issue that i was facing and making it more difficult for me to sustain weight loss. golo has been more sustainable. i can fit it into family life, i can make meals that the whole family will enjoy. one quick note before we go my it just works in everyday life as a mom. friend chris hayes is taking a well deserved break this week so i will be filling it for him this week on all in.

be sure to tune in starting tomorrow at eight pm eastern time right here on msnbc. that does it for me today. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok, instagram. you could also listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. search for inside with jen psaki wherever you get your podcasts. stay right where you are because there's much more news ahead on here on animus nbc. for now goodbye from washington. washington tonight on the mehdi hasan show. the former trump official sounding the alarm about the dangers of another trump presidency. miles taylor joins me on that. plus, save the date. the ex presidents growing legal troubles are now colliding with the gop primary calendar. and the people of israel pushing back against a power grab by prime minister benjamin netanyahu. but what about the occupation? >> welcome to the