and you can catch more from the front lines tonight on nbc "nightly news." that's going to do it for us today. i'm back tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. thanks so much for joining us. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. it's right there plain as day cutting right to the heart of donald trump's pattern of alleged criminality. quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. the other end of that december 2020 conversation former senior justice department official richard donoghue. he recently spoke to the office of special counsel jack smith although we understand he's not been called to testify before the grand jury. that is of note as the american

people brace for another potential indictment of donald trump, it could come today, could come in two days. it could come in two weeks. the secretive nature of these proceedings means your guess on the time of any indictment is as good as ours. we do know for sure that while the grand jury hearing evidence and testimony in the january 6th investigation has been meeting on tuesdays and thursdays, so far they have not met today. you don't know what that means but we share it anyway. in the meantime jack smith appears to have already navigated his way through many of what could be primary witnesses in potential criminality in the lead up and on january 6th. take richard donohue who we mentioned an essential voice related to the prosecution of the aftermath of the november 2020 election. what trump told him to do is to essentially fraudulently overturn a u.s. election without any evidence.

he wanted his ceo jay brass to publicly, quote, just say the election was corrupt and then leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. and it likely only scratches the surface of what a witness like donohue could provide jack smith. we spoke yesterday about a possible linchpin of any prosecution brought by jack smith in this area proving that trump and people in the area knew very well that the lies they were spreading were indeed lies. that is of course where donohue comes in. under oath listen to the counsel he says he provided trump a week before the capitol attack. this is from his testimony in the select committee. >> and i wanted to try to cut through the noise because it was clear to us there were a lot of people whispering in his ear feeding him these conspiracy theories and allegations, and i thought being very blunt in the conversation might help make it clear to the president these allegations were simply not true. as the president wept through

them, i went piece by piece to say, no, that's false, that is not true and to correct him really in a serial fashion as he moved from one theory to another. >> you also noted that mr. rosen said to mr. trump, quote, doj can't and won't snap its fingers and change the outcome of the election. how did the president respond to that, sir? >> he responded very quickly and said essentially that's not what i'm asking you to do. what i'm asking you to do is say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. >> that's an acting deputy attorney general telling the president, no, no, no, you are wrong. there is no fraud, there is no there there. so it's important what trump does next, right? trump continues spreading the lies that have been debunked from mr. donohue and mr. barr and many others. and that culminate in the attack on our capitol. in a last few minutes we learned a person familiar with this very

topic is able to confirm to nbc news that chris krebs -- he was fired by donald trump after securing the u.s. election by tweet. we learned he recently spoke with the special counsel as well. krebs was among the officials who came out and verified there was no fraud and that, quote, our elections were the most secure in american history. that's where we start today with our most famous reporters and friends. former special prosecutor andrew wiseman is back with us. politico national correspondent betsey woodrow swan is back, and former senator, our dear friend claire mccaskill is here. tell me what you are reading in

the tea leaves as you are sort of the closest we can get in reading into the mind of jack smith. >> sure. it makes sense that people like chris krebs and richard donohue are among the people that jack smith wants to talk to. he wants to talk to all the people who are telling the former president that there was no fraud in the election that would justify overturning the results. but i think there's more than that. he's plarm interested in the people who rich donoghue in the clip you just played saying there were people in his ear, conspiracy theorists saying the opposite. those are the people jack smith has to worry about. was there enough being said to the former president that gives him a basis to say he had sort of a good faith belief in what was going on, that he didn't -- that he didn't really accept what was being said by all these other people? so that's the reason, for

instance, you are hearing about the effort to talk to rudy giuliani, the effort to review all his documents because those two people were tasked with looking to see there was fraud. and to the extent they did not find any, that's yet more evidence to find people who were real loyalists to the former president, even they were not finding that fraud. so this is really sort of scouring the earth on part of jack smith to make sure he's anticipating any and all defenses that are raised by the former president in the upcoming charges. >> that's so interesting, an degree wiseman, there's a clear pattern these are individuals who were as you said trump loyalists at the end, and the only thing we know of that they were not willing to do was to fabricate fraud. and it seems these are also people who had contact with trump and not just people who, you know, like chris christie

was on abc declaring the election was over and joe biden had won, but chris krebs goes toe to toe face-to-face with donald trump, so does richard donohghue. how does that factor in? >> absolutely. like the january 6th committee made its case almost entirely as you noted through people who were trump loyalists. that really goes to how they're going to play to a jury. these are people who were his people telling him this. i mean rich donoghue was a total trump loyalist. he used to be an attorney in the district i came from, the eastern district of new york. he was very much a loyalist of donald trump. the line that he and the acting attorney general jeff rosen were not willing to cross was engaging in insurrection. so, you know, they had their lines, and they were not going to use the justice department to say something that was false. by the way, the quote that you

have, which is essentially say something that's fraud and we'll take the rest, and exactly what he wanted zelenskyy to do in ukraine. i mean it's just so reminiscent of i don't care what the truth is, just say that you're opening an investigation, just say that you're opening an investigation into fraud, i can do the rest with that. and that's a line that commendably, but it's a low bar that jeff rosen and rich donoghue at the justice department were not willing to take. your main point it is a case that can be made to trump appointees, that's going to go a long way if you're jack smith thinking about how these people will play to a jury. it's going to play really well because it's his people. it's not like you're calling the left wing opponent. you're not calling a biden political operative as a witness. these are his people. and so if you're a prosecutor that's exactly the kind of

witness who you want. >> andrew wiseman, one more point on this. i mean doj also did something highly unusual slash unethical, they went out and investigated and found claims of fraud. let me play richard donhghe testifying on the wild-goose chases the u.s. department of justice went on. >> we went on a truck driver who claimed to have moved apentire tractor-trailer of ballots from new york to pennsylvania. that was also incorrect. we did an investigation where the fbi interviewed witnesses at the front end and back end of that trailer's transit from new york to pennsylvania. we looked at loading manifests. we interviewed witnesses including of course the driver, and we knew it wasn't true. whether the driver believed it or not wasn't clear to me, but it's just not true. >> now, because of what ensues, because the u.s. capitol was

ransacked, because people lost their lives, because law enforcement officials engaged in medieval hand to hand combat with trump supporters, we never really got to this story in a robust manner, but that's not really doj's role, is it? >> so, you know, it's all a question of how much factual predication did they have and when were they doing it. this is something that the justice department up until bill barr had very clear rules about when they would participate in these kinds of investigation and the kind of factual predication. a long way of saying that the department of justice had in place procedures to try and make sure that they were not actually or perceived to be weighing in on a pending election. those were thrown by the wayside by the former attorney general bill barr, and that's why they were engaged in this. ironically it actually ended up

helping because they'd actually done some of this investigation, and they could tell the former president after the november election, by the way, we've looked at all of this, and there's nothing there. but this -- this is -- and to your point we were just discussing, this is an example of true trump loyalists who were not willing to go that extra mile. they were not willing to overthrow the will of the people and at the very last analysis. they weren't willing to do this, and these are people who are willing to do a whole lot that i personally found really deplorable up until that point. and so you're correct to point that out, but i do think that is -- that's one more reason, though, from jack smith's perspective these are really, really useful, good witnesses in terms of proving what donald trump is up to. >> maybe mr. durham will look

into some of that. betsie, i want to show you what mr. donoghue said recently. i think there's something so fast about how he consumed the congressional committee's witnesses. we have more now to sort of marinate in them. here's what he had to say a couple weeks ago or last week on "news nation". >> for some people donald trump will always be a man who's targeted because he stands up to corrupt elites and for others he'll always be benedict donald, a leader who puts his own interests above the countries. those people will not be convinced either way. we have to focus on the people who have not made up their minds. and that's what the justice department will do and that's what jack smith is doing. i don't think he's political. he's not left wing. he's not an agent of the deep state. his politics would put him right of center, i believe. and look, he secured the first

capitol sentence in new york in 50 years. he is not a bleeding heart liberal. >> again, betsey, i don't know a lot about where he gets his facts, but if i could play that on a loop on fox news i would. he's not left wing, he's not an agent of the deep state, his politics put him right of center. i believe he secured the first capital sentence in new york in more than 50 years. he's not a bleeding heart liberal. there are voices out there, bill barr attesting to the strength of the government case in mar-a-lago. now you've got donoghue testifying to the strength and the right leanings of the special counsel. what do you make of where this investigation stands? >> it's no coincidence the rhetoric hews quite closely to the way donald trump was talking about it. bill barw was one of donald trump's trusted foijss in the

justice department. after donoghue worked in brooklyn, he hand picked him to play a senior role managing doj and to the point of the aftermath of the election of course days after the networks called the election bill barr handed down that directive up ending the law with doj waiting to investigate potential election fraud. he handed that down just days after. and then donoghue played a role in reiterating to a senior fbi official that despite push back and a career official lower down in the justice department, donoghu told this justice department official investigate what i interview, the wacky odd video trump ally and conspiracy theorist said proved people were putting ballots in suitcases.

donoghue was pushing very in the trenches to support bill barr's order, to have the fbi start investigating these extremely whacky allegations of voter fraud. in the e-mails we reported on i would say one or two years ago -- the time line gets fuzzy for me. in the e-mails we reported donoghue made it clear in this moment after the election there was a lot of dispute around the country about the outcome. of course that dispute was driven entirely about lies pushed by the then. president, but he played an important role that's recorded in e-mails of having the fbi do these investigations, which to andrew's point, now make him so important for jack smith's probe because donoghue is there at the time involved in a granular way

and would have first-hand knowledge to the exto which both the fbi investigated these conspiracy theories and the extent to which justice department officials told trump the fbi investigated, they investigated hard and they didn't turn up anything. >> so, claire, i'm fascinated by the trump marathon men who made it to mile 25.8 and then jump off. but it is right where everyone is saying it is, right? just declare it fraudulent and the congressman will do the rest. he also stands atop the coup plot of doj. >> i made the point jeff clark is not even competent to serve as the attorney general. he's never been a criminal attorney. he's never conducted a criminal investigation in his life, and i said that's right you're an environmental lawyer, how about you go back to your office and we'll call you when there's an oil spill. >> i said, mr. president, within 24, 48, 72 hours you'll get hundreds and hundreds of

resignations from the leadership of your justice department. what does that say to you. >> it comes apart. the line is declaring it fraudulent without finding it, but it is remarkable still. and i'll never not point it out. it is remarkable domg was used under bill barr's direction to go follow spurious claims of fraud no republican judge found in the 61 cases that trump and rudy and his team brought. but this, too, was a bridge too far putting jeffrey clark in top doj. >> yeah, and let's remember bill barr walked away, and he walked away quietly. he didn't walk away and do a press conference and say this president is going to try to press a fraudulent theory on the american people about this election. now, he's saying these things, but at the time it would have been really important for bill barr to explain why he was

walking away, that he saw that the president had lost his ever loving mind and was clael going to try and go down this path. and bill barr didn't want to be a part of it. and the people we left behind, donoghue and others didn't want to be a part of it. thank goodness that didn't come to pass. i think what's really important to remember about this case as we contemplate this indictment by jack smith, you know, the complicated part of this is not whether jack smith can make his case but it becomes a little more complicated and i think andrew would back me up here is how strong would donald trump's defense be, and that was he had a reasonable belief there was fraud in the election. and so you're going to have dueling witnesses depending on how immunity comes down which is a whole other topic we could spend an hour on. depending on who's called upon

to testify and they can't take the fifth because they've been given immunity, you've got rudy giuliani and carrick on one side, one was a famous prosecutor and one was a famous police officer. but one of them was dripping air dye at a landscape place when he was clearly clueless about what was going on. and the on the other side you've got somebody like donoghue who is bill barr's hand selected person, who's a trump loyalist up until when trump wanted to commit fraud, and then he said no. so the jury is going to have to weigh is trump listening to credible people? and were the people that really knew the facts, are they the ones that are the ones that are credible and believable here, the ones that actually investigated, the ones who, you know, told the president over and over again homeland security, doj, there's no fraud, it was fair, there was no fraud, it was fair? that is really where the jury is going to have to make up its mind who they believe and

whether or not it's reasonable that donald trump would think that the dripping hair guy was credible. >> andrew, you have been invoked. your thoughts. >> sure. two thoughts. i'm going to first answer claire's point. i agree with her, but it's important to remember that some of the charges that i anticipate that jack smith will bring such as obstruction of congress do not require getting into this debate because let's assume that donald trump thought -- he in good faith thought there was fraud in the election, and of course he's wrong. but let's assume he had good faith. you still cannot direct and try to get congress not to count those votes. the way you deal with that is you have to go to court and deal with it there. the votes were certified. so the issue is really going to be i think not be about -- so much about his intent other than

if you can show bad faith, it's one more good fact for the government in proving its case. and then just the second quick point, nicolle, just sort of how does rich donoghue know about the information involving jack smith some remember they served in the eastern district of new york here in brooklyn. they know each other. when rich donoghue is talking about jack smith and he's an apolitical guy. this isn't just by reputation. he knows him. and so it really carries additional weight because of that. >> it's a really important and powerful endorsement, his lack of ideology, and he sort of puts him on the right of the ideological spectrum, which carries an immense amount of credibility if trump's about to get indicted a second time by him. really important background for us. i need all of you to stick

around a little bit longer. when we come back fulton county district attorney fani willis is eyeing a number of very serious charges in her investigation into the plot to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. we'll talk about some brand new reporting on that front. plus, the president of the united states, joe biden, calling for americans to acknowledge the entirety of our history even the dark and painful chapters of our history as he honors emmitt till and his mom. later in the program a top trump ally warns of a civil war ahead of a possible indictment of the ex-president in what could be another sign of an increasingly radicalized trump base. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy.

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when it comes to fulton county district attorney fani willis' investigation into the twice impeached, twice indicted ex-president's efforts to overturn his defeat in the 2020 presidential election in georgia, we've been waiting since january of this year when she told a judge that charging decisions were in her words imminent. for more details about this probe today we finally have some clue uzabout what charges willis may actually bring. according to a new report in "the guardian," quote, a move by willing to identify a list of potential charges notifies a juncture in the criminal investigation and suggests prosecutors are on course to ask the grand jury to return indictments next month. among the state's election law charges that prosecutors were

examining criminal solicitation to commit election fraud and conspiracy to commit election fraud as well as solicitation of a public or political officer to fail to perform their duties and solicitation to destroy, deface, or remove ballots. andrew wiseman, betsey woodruff swan and claire mccaskill are back with us. i feel the word solicitation -- if you play again that is precisely what he's doing to brad raffensperger. let's listen. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. i don't know, look, brad, i have to find 12,000 votes and i have them times a lot. and therefore i won the state.

>> there's so much great reporting that's turning up contemporaneous evidence. mark meadows e-mailing with eric hershman saying their son found more obits, more than two but not more than four. they knew this wasn't true by the time it would appear on this call. tell me how you know what sort of crimes fani willis is considering. >> it just speaks to why all the evidence jack smith has been gathering about trump's state of mind in this very fraught moment is so important. what trump's continued allies and loyalists still argue to this day is if you parse the verbiage on that call trump says he knew he won, he said he had way more than that many votes, so it's the opposite of solicitation, that obviously takes a certain level of rhetorical ricing and dicing. and it's why richard donoghue's

conversations with jack smith's team as well as conversations with people speaking with trump in those time days of the administration are so important. it's why it's so important to jack smith to be able to gather as much material as possible, speaking to what trump actually believed about the outcome of the election including, of course, in georgia. and to andrew's point from the prior segment this isn't necessarily dispositive, of course, as to whether or not smith makes charging decisions, but in the case of fani willis for this solicitation conversation, trump's state of mind is going to be really important. >> well, i mean, claire, you talked about the defenses. it is nonsensical that his defense could be the chairman of his campaign and the state republican governor brian kemp and republican trump backer brian raffensperger, his republican governor gabe sterling were lying when they told him they counted the votes three times.

you almost can't argue the opposite of what the facts, again, in the words and testimony of trump die hard supporters in the state of georgia had been since this happened. >> yeah, this is really -- it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out time-wise. andrew and i have talked ability this on the air before. jack smith would want to go first, but will fani willis end up getting a trial date before jack smith does on those charges related to january 6th? and what interplay will there be with the witnesses? because there'll be many witnesses in common with both. i do think fani willis has particular expertise in using the racketeering status in georgia. and she did that with the teaching cheating scandal. something you don't think of. when you think of rico you think of gang centers. you don't think of educators

systematically cheating on exams in order to feather their own nests. she's got experience with this, and this is where i think some of the delay on her charges is that some of these fake electors are taking advantage of offers of immunity. and coming in and telling exactly how they were contacted, exactly what they believed, and now can she pull that thread all the way back to donald trump on the fake electors? and that's where somebody like mark meadows becomes a very, very important witness. >> andrew wiseman, to tie them all together for us, what fani willis is up to in georgia and to betsy's point how important georgia and fani willis are to jack smith. >> so i think there's a part of the tape recording that has not gotten enough attention. of course the clip you played is definitely, you know, sort of the muddying shot, that is key. but if you combine that with one other piece i think it is really

devastating in terms of what donald trump was doing. on tape he threatens criminal prosecution against raffensperger if he does not look and find these and says you are playing with fire because you could be -- you could be committing fraud. and as claire knows, i mean that's the last thing brad raffensperger is doing, because he's sitting there saying i do not find this so i cannot do it. that is not fraud. and so when you have the -- remember this is the then-sitting president of the united states saying this to the secretary of state. i mean you can't get more threatening than that. imagine being on that call where it's not just sort of a good faith believe of, gee, there's rampant fraud and i just want you to clear this up. when he says there's no fraud you say essentially you better damn well find it or you are going to face criminal prosecution. to me it's that combination that

makes this a really strong case both at the state level and at the federal level for jack smith and for fani willis. >> andrew wiseman, betsy woodruff swan and to claire mccaskill, my ver best birthday wishes to you, my friend. if i could sing, i would sing happy birthday, but i can't. and i won't make andrew or betsy do that on the spot. >> i was cheating on you yesterday. i went to "barbie" during the time period i should be on your show monday. it was great fun and a great thing to do. >> was it good? did you like it? >> yeah, it was very well-done, lots of fun. >> i want to talk about barbie and both gretchen whitmer co-opting barbie with her instagram account and the right going berserk. they look like lunatics. to be continued.

happy birthday, my friend. >> thank you. up next for us president joe biden today establishing a national monument to pay tribute to emmitt till, the teen whose brutal and senseless murder helped unite the civil rights movement in the united states of america. that story's next. america. that story's next. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ when i was diagnosed with h-i-v,

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today we join together as i sign a proclamation designating

emmitt till and mamie till monument in both illinois and mississippi. at a time when there are those who seek to ban books, bury history, we're making it clear, crystal clear. how darkness and anihilism can hide much, they can erase nothing. we can't just choose to learn what we want to know, we have to learn what we should know. we should know about our country. we should know everything, the good, the bad, the truth of who we are as a nation. that's what great nations do. >> incredibly important speech

today from president joe biden, today lifting up one of the darkest hours in our nation's history and using it to remind us of what that tragedy and the acts of extraordinary courage that ensued did to change the course of american history. the president reminding us at our best we are not a country that hides from its painful past no matter what some republican law playmakers may think and say and do. the brutal murder of 14-year-old emmitt till or beau as his mom called him, lit the fuse that ignites the civil rights movement in this country. and today in establishing these federal monuments the nation honors not just emmitt till but his mother whose excruciating decision to hold an open casket. today's ceremony was equal parts lesson and sunday church and it

was powerful. joining us now the host of politics nation here on msnbc our friend reverend al sharpton. also joining us professor of african american studies at princeton university, our friend eddie glaude. your thoughts. >> i thought it was a very important way for the president to not only honor emmitt till with but his mother. i was honored to work and his mother on several occasions. she came to the national network in the late '90s and did a film with a producer. and she kept saying to me don't forget reverend al, the reason emmitt till is the way he is in the minds of america is because i would not let them keep that casket closed. she brought his body back from mississippi to chicago because

they were from chicago, he was just visiting relatives enmississippi. he'd been badly beaten, maimed, and his head was twice the size. i was only 11 months old when this happened. when she brought the body back, they told her you can't open the casket. she defied them and opened the casket, and the black press as president biden cited today "jet magazine," "chicago defender" published the pictures. that is what uniteded the country and the movement. and years later rosa parks -- she went onto speak, she said when i sat on the bus in montgomery and refused to move which started the montgomery bus boycott, she said when the policemen were called and told me, miss, you have to move and sit in the colored section, she

said i couldn't move. i thought of emmitt till. it was only a year later. so they directly energized the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s that preceded many of us. those of us who relate now to george floyd, emmitt till was that for the '50s, '60s, and '70s, and the resulting movement, and it explained what emmitt till meant and what his mother did to make him mean that to the country. >> i turn to both of you. around the time that i screened till, a film made earlier this year and i had a chance to speak to whoopi goldberg, instrumental in making that film. and let me show you a piece of what she had to say about how this moment that the disputably changes history came to be. >> this happens to ordinary

people. this is an ordinary family. you know, there was nothing special about them. they were just a mother and son, you know. and they were thrust into extraordinary circumstances, circumstances that none of us who have children ever want to be in, ever. >> but there's a thing that's so today in her wanting people to see with their eyes because truth was already in a struggle with the deception and lies of racism. >> if you think back to all the loss that we as a nation have had with the loss of what racism brings out and all the people we've lost and what they could have done with their lives had they lived, when you think of all the people, you know, the trayvon martins, you know, you think of anyone who has lost their life because someone didn't think you looked right.

>> i was in that interview, i watched it a couple of times. it always gets me that this senseless loss, the things we lose by refusing to do better and learning from our history, what's on your mind today eddie glaude? >> well, i think it's a really important day in the sense that a monument to emmitt till is not necessarily a monument to the triumph of the civil rights movement. rather like the monuments and memorials in montgomery it's a testament to the capability of being cruel to the violence at the heart of the country. to place that alongside the courage, and as whoopi goldberg said the ordinary -- the courage of ordinary people with mamie till mobley is really important,

that the courage itself in ordinary every day people. i also was thinking about this, nicolle. people don't want to erase history because they want to believe what's happening to us. they want to deny because they don't want to look the brutality of slavery in its face. they don't want to believe what was happening in the marsh of mississippi, in the marshes and bayous of mississippi. they don't want to believe that police are doing what they're doing to us. and so they attack and assault on history has everything to do with not facing the truth of when country we've built. so these kind of monuments are important in, i guess, speaking back to that resistance and reluctance if that makes sense. >> it totally does. and i want to -- i want do do so much. we have to sneak in a break, but i want to show you -- i want to

come back to this extraordinary moment, really unprecedented and not really anything like this has happened in modern history of showing -- of using her son's brutal, brutal murder to show the country who it is in that moment. stick around. we'll all be right back on the other side of a break. on the other side of a break. i was told my small business wouldn't qualify for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to go. yeah, i think i'll get a second opinion.

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well, i looked, and he

wanted to know was i going to have the casket opened. i said, oh, yes, we're going to open the casket. he well, miss bradley, do you want me to do something for the face? want me to try to fix it up? i said, no, let the people see what i've seen. i said, i want the world to see this. >> that, of course, emmett till's mom. rev, talk about the ties that president i think powerfully made to today's times to this assault on what we can see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears. >> when we look at the president

and vice president, they stood there today with the survivor of the till family, talking at that very moment in florida. you have a state board of education that is saying that we are going to change how black history is taught. you have a governor who has said that we don't need to say anything that makes others uncomfortable when it comes to blacks or, for that matter, lgbtq and others. so you have the contrast of america. you have a president saying, no, we shouldn't forget. we have a governor who is running for president saying we should erase, and you have the people in the middle, the victims, represented by mamie till mobley that is saying we have fwrot got to not doctor up, fix up, cover up, we need to open up and see who we are so we can get better. it is not to make people hate. it is not answer to make them

uncomfortable. it's for them to realize where we are so we can get to where we need to go. you must remember, nicole, ms. till mobley did this when there was no instagram, no social media. we reacted in my time and those younger than me looking at the film of rodney king all the way to george floyd. she was instagram and twitter in the '50s. it never happened before that where america had to look at the face of this young man, and for this woman to have the courage and strength to do that, it ignited a movement that led into decades of legislation and change, and we are still fighting legislation and change, but it made forward movement because of mamie till mobley and what she said and did about her son. >> we are going to give eddie glad the last word on the other side of the break. the other side of the break.

we're back with the rev and eddie. eddie, the conversation we started before the break, she was an ordinary person in that she didn't choose the spotlight but she did extraordinary things when tragedy changed her life, losing her son. it was just the two of them. this was her only boy. there is this unimaginable courage. you can't put yourself in her shoes and imagine doing all the things she does in that pain and

grief. it is so much easier to do a fraction of that and would have such an impact if everyone would do more than nothing. what do you say to the country to say we don't expect you in your hour of immense grief and pain to change the world like she did. we want you to do more than nothing. what is that conversation? >> even if you do a little more than nothing, you can change the world. it's easy to condemn roy bryant or a jw my lam, those cowardly white men who killed that 14-year-old baby. it's easy to condom the white come who lied. president biden said silence is complicity. it's easy to condemn the monsters. the question becomes in that moment in which we see a world suffering, are you standing by silently doing nothing as the darkness of the world consumes? where are you? you are just like -- just like

the example of mamie till mobley, we all have the kpas capacity to be advance forming agents. we need to answer the call of the moment, answer the call of history itself. >> yeah. i mean, you gave me chills, eddie, as you tend to do. but i think some of the most impactful things that the president said today that i hope he comes back to over and over and over again every day, frankly, between now and the next election is this idea that the republican silence is republican complicity on book bans and erasing our history. the reverend al sharpton, eddie, trivial to talk to you today. next for us, switching gears back to politics, a trump loyalist, a key and prominent player in the trump coup plot, has warned publicly now of civil war if the ex-president is indicted for trying to overturn his 2020 election defeat. that story and more in the next

hour of "deadline: white house" after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don't go anywhere.

♪♪ you probably disagree with her on 95% of the issues but you have found that 5% where you can work together. talk about that relationship. >> in a sense, it's not really an issue you can't call the whole constitutional democratic infrastructure an issue. so, you know, what we're agreeing on is essentially who we are as americans, that we can agree to fight about lots of stuff. i mean, i said i can't wait to go back to disagreeing with her about everything. but right now we are in a constitutional emergency and we are all constitutional first responders. >> constitutional first responders. i love that. hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. it may have been met with laughs if in the moment, but the message from congressman raskin

is a deeply profound one in these teams. speak to go despite their political differences he and liz cheney found vast amounts of common ground and common understanding and respect for one another because they are fighting on the same side for the same goal. the very right to debate issues with each other in a free and fair american democracy. the fact that their unity on that issue of whether we remain a democracy was so notable is emblematic of a problem plaguing our country today. the inability of republicans to see beyond party affiliation. it is now morphed into an inability to agree to a certain set of facts, reality, and this polarized reality which we refer to as earth one and earth two on this show threatens not just our democracy but our way of life. if we can't agree there is indeed climate change, we can't

move towards debating the solutions. can't agree there is no evidence of fraud in our elections, we can't view the outcomes as legitimate. if we can't believe that political violence is abhorrent and unacceptable in every single instance, then none of us are safe. in all three of those examples large swaths of self-identified republicans are in the evidence free zone which we call earth two. not exercising a right to their own free speech or free ideas, but demanding a right to dictate their own facts without any evidence. so what we're left with, all of us, not just them, is a country being ripped apart at the seams. the very precarious moment in our history. in the name of the republican party's leader and ex-president, who has been indicted twice, found liable for sexual abuse, impeached twice, many members of the republican party have spread

vitriol and hate, some by adopting the rhetoric themselves, others but ignoring it, others by refusing to condemn it at all. take what is just posted by former trump administration official peter navarro. when you watch this, keep in mind no one in the republican party has called out this dangerous language. >> roughly half of republicans and over a third of democrats believe america is on the brink of civil war. such an unthinkable war, if it breaks out, it will be the democrats' fault. the democrat activists and strategists now driving this nation towards a second civil war at neither justice or righteousness on their side. my strong admonition to these democrats is i appeal to the wiser in your party, is this. back this anti-democratic truck up before it runs over you. >> are you kidding?

the audacity doesn't hit you in the face, the hip raucksy and projection will. so that guy goes on to warn democrats that they are so-called weaponization of government and doj and other agencies is going to come back to haunt you? it's an alarming threat, even a second federal indictment of donald trump for crimes he committed in earth one is likely imminent. following the first indictment from special counsel jack smith a larger number of americans now support using force to restore donald trump to the white house. somehow, some way. according to a new university of chicago survey that increased by roughly 6 million people in the last few months to an estimated 18 million people. a growing number of americans who believe violence is justified -- a likely third indictment of the ex-president is where we begin the hour with some of our most famous experts and friends.

mary mccord is back. paul rycoff and the founder of the group iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. and former assistant u.s. attorney now the president of the leadership conference on civil and human rights maya whilely. mary, i start with you. when you and your smart peers who have sort of sat at the intersection of u.s. national security with an orientation towards threats from abroad where i think i know from my time to government exactly what we would do if a foreign terrorist organization or american adversary threatened us, what do we do when prominent figure or someone from the ex-president's cabinet threatens us? >> right. this is the challenge because domestically speech is protected by the first amendment and that has been interpreted very, very broadly to protect almost everything that can -- that, you know, including things that can sound pretty threatening, unless they cross over the line into

sort of what's called a true threat. and that means the first amendment does not protect violence or incitement of to imminent violence, but the line about where that is and when a threat becomes that type of incitement of to imminent violence or violence itself is something that the courts have struggled with over time. and i think that has been essentially weaponized by extremists to really push that envelope and try to stay where they feel is just on the protected side of the line. i think it also means that prosecutors are hesitant sometimes to prosecute when they worry that they might not be able to obtain a conviction because there will be a determination that speech was protected or even a jury determination, if it was not a legal determination by a judge, a jury determination that something really wasn't a true threat. and so we get more and more of this type of extremist language

that, you know, when you take the comments you just showed of peter navarro, you know, he wasn't actually making a direct threat, right? he was really, i think, trying to inject into the public consciousness this idea of civil war, which he has to know because we have seen it over and over and over again will cause individuals to start talking about that on social media, to start maybe even mobilizing around those types of things. i do think though we need to take what he said and even more importantly the new data out. university of chicago, we need to consider that in terms of how easy it is to say things, to talk about civil war, to talk about things on social media, to answer polling about your views about political violence, to answer these things in an abstract way. according to other researchers -- and i taukt to a

person from the university of chicago and other researchers, and oftentimes if you drill down with your questions into specific things that a person would think is acceptable to do, the answer sometimes changes a little bit. i think questions in the abstragt about would the use of force be justified are abstract questioned. i don't want to mitigate this threat. as you know, i talk about political violence all the time. but i don't want to alarm americans into thinking that, you know, a large jump, a large number of americans really are ready to take up arms in civil war against their fellow americans. i don't think we are there yet. i think we are in a very dangerous place because of the rhetoric and that brings fear, and fear to people that prevents them participating in democratic processes and that's one of the things we need to worry about, in my view, even more than are we really gonna have war on streets of the united states of america. >> well, mary, from a law enforcement perspective, does it make it easier or harder to find

the people that would break into speaker pelosi's home, the guy in new mexico who would shoot up democratic election workers? i mean, it seems that the task -- and i don't know if the terrorism parallel is a good one or a bad one, but finding a lone wolf radicalized terrorist and finding a group seem vexing endeavors for the u.s. government. >> right. that's one of the hardest things, because the type of rhetoric like you heard from peter navarro owe and other extremists and condoning either explicitly as you indicated by elected officials or by their silence birx other elected officials, that does oftentimes -- i shouldn't say oftentimes. it's not as though we have a terrorist attack every day in the u.s. but that sometimes leads to individuals acting out on the kinds of things that they see and they believe are happening in the united states. and most of our terrorist acts, including our domestic

motivated, not porn terrorist motivated, domestic motivated extremist attacks are carried out by individuals and not groups and oftentimes those individuals are inspired by and motivated by the propaganda of groups, including disinformation, conspiracy theories, it's. but they act on their own. that is very difficult for law enforcement are. i mean, law enforcement also, you know, some of the tools that would be the most useful to try to ferret out those individuals are the tools that make people who stand up for privacy and civil rights and slifl liberties very nervous. right now our law enforcement, they have to have predication to do things like create online undercover personas and engage with people in private chat rooms. it's important to have that predication so that we don't have overreach by our federal law enforcement and surveillance of americans, you know, just based on unfavored political

views. but that is far different than trying to ferret it's out violence and where that line is, i mean, the director. fbi has been clear, like, once -- and he is right with b this. when there is discussion about violence or acquiring weapons, the fbi can move. whether they always do that and do it in a timely fashion, it's hard. it's a huge challenge for law enforcement. >> you know, paul, mary articulates really artfully what the republican political and rhetorical strategy is. it's to find the space beyond what used to be normative border of acceptable rhetoric right up to speech that crosses the line into illegal incitement of violence and just plant roots, build their bunkers and that's where they hang out. we have had a lot of conversations with the asymmetry in language. i wonder how you assess, you know, the rhetorical response to that. >> well, the threat of civil war

i think is,age rated and something that people like peter navarro are encouraging and want to move on. i think the threat of extremist violence is real. i think the threat from what i have called not a civil war, but american insurgency, is real. it doesn't take 18 million people to coordinate attacks on infrastructure or political leaders or disrupt the government or elections. so i continue to look this as a national security story. it's an extensive network from trump to navarro to mike flynn, the oath keep eers that doesn't have to be coordinated. they just have to have the same objectives. sometimes they are chaos. and when you have got any number of people who are angry, political motivated, share values and have weapons and messages from people like peter navarro, it's a threat. the fbi has to be on guard. the fbi is looking for attackers from january 6th. you know, the pipe bomber that

set pipe bombs outside is still at large. the fbi is still hunting for people who are participants in january 6th. so the threat is real and i think the reality is also that there are people like peter navarro who want to see it increase. >> yeah, i mean, maya, this is an extraordinary split screen. we live in had unprecedented moment where the threats are domestic, not foreign in terms of modern history. that is a normal. we live in a heightened threat of, as paul said, an american insurgency of extremist views and people willing to act on them based on the polling. but if but go down issue by issue -- and i had this conversation with former attorney general eric holder -- on the big issues that have divided us, there is no more division. abortion is not even a 50 plus one. it's an 80% issue people think it should be legal. making easy to vote, again a -- depending how you ask the

question, 70 to 90% of americans, if you include younger people, think you should make it easier to vote in the united states of america. gun safety 85% issue. should we do more things to make -- so the divisions are on the tools. peter navarro talking about civil war. appetite for violence on the right. they are on disinformation, consumed and main line by actors the right and this complicit silence in terms of the high levels of elected mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy condemn none of. >> this what do we do about that? >> i can't help but go back to your previous segment with reverend sharpton and eddie glad because at the heart of all of this and what we do about it is recognizing not just what you are saying about the fact that we have much more agreement in this country than disagreement, and i really agree with both

palm and mary in terms of their analysis here. it's that 62% of americans, according to our polling at the leadership conference on civil and human rights, that we conducted last september, where we certainly got a large number of people deeply concerned about the health and future of our democracy, but 62% also saying that this country had to face down anti-black racism. the reason i point that out is because underlaying all of this in the what we do about it and why there is complicity in silence from too many leaders who, in the past, in the past, including mitch mcconnell, would have supported reauthorization of the voting rights act. the very kinds of constitutional norms and supreme court protections that we have had as a country to ensure that we have come beyond and surpassed the

racism that we had had and the institutionalization of it that that we fought a civil war over. and now, today, what we're really seeing is the complicity and people thinking about how they hold on to some very short reins of power because there is a base that i think is the minority of the american public. that is simply and sadly incredibly deeply ensconced in conspiracy theory and fiction over fact. and in a lot of insecurity and fear about the future of the country that's leading them to grasp theories of division rather than the fact of unity. that, to me, speaks to exactly what we do about it, which is we have to collectively recognize as a country and in every single community where we have people to say, we actually have civil rights, civil rights are constitutional rights, we fought a civil war and it was to perfect this union and we can

still perfect it. we can still keep it. we have to do what, frankly, again in our polling from last fall, showed a majority of americans want -- which is to have politicians that stop participating in the politics of division and show up. vote. if we have learned nothing, it's that elections have consequences, and think about, am i showing up. i don't care which party. am i showing up for candidates that are trying to solve problems or create them, trying to take responsibility or avoid it, or trying to driver division or pull us together. i am going to tell you right now that just like you said, nicole, this is a country where the vast majority, including the segments of our demographics, the gen-zs and the millennials, the plurals, as we call them, will inherit this country and they are very clear about what they want, and it's a democracy.

>> paul, what does that look like in action? because i know you sort of sit at the fulcrum of peering over into two abysses, if you will. what does that sound like? >> i think that there is a core point, which is a lot of americans are up for grabs. i wouldn't dismiss it as just something only people on the right or watching fox news latch on to. we are in a battle for hearts and minds and people are on the fence. you got to have leaders and messages and messen gers and programs to get to those people that bring them over into community organizing and into non-profit organizations and away from the patriot front and oath keeperss. i think the parallels of 9/11 are important. we talked about this before. after 9/11, the laws didn't work. they made massive changes to respond to a new threat. i think we have to face the fact that many structures, laws and policies may not work. after 9/11 we created the department of homeland security.

there was the patriot act. there was massive hang in our entire society to face the number one threat, or at least what was communicated as the number one threat. we need the same kind of tet tonic shift. maybe our laws need to change to respond to the fact that someone like mike flynn, the former national security director, is openly calling for violence consistently. >> yeah. all right. to be continued, please. mary, maya, paul, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. the latest episode of paul's podcast is out right now. he is joined by amy mcdwrat. they talk about how the military is dealing with efforts to restrict abortion access. shifting gears for us, almost entirely, surprise about face from wall street and a surprise victory for the biden white house. why a top investment bank is saying their predictions about the economy were wrong and that bidenomics is working and working much, much better than even they expected.

that story is next. plus, inside the doj's lawsuit targeting the state of texas and it's rogue and potentially life-threatening attempts to stop immigration over the rio grande and the extreme heat. broiling much of our planet. we are on track for the hottest month in recorded history and the science is abundantly clear the dangerous heatwaves will be virtually impossible without human-caused climate change. we will bring you the results of a new report on that. defensive end /* "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. e" continues after a quick break. so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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with republicans in a mad dash to the bottom of u.s. politics, president joe biden's bet is that voters will be

focused on the country's steadily improving economy. with news this week that the bidenomics, biden's formula for strong economic growth from the bottom up, is not only driving a surge in the u.s. economy and a boom in large-scale infrastructure, it's so much greater than even the experts and economic stuff expected it to be. at morgan stanley, crediting biden's infrastructure and jobs act with forcing that bank to make a, quote, sizable upward revision to its u.s. gross domestic product estimates and the top u.s. equity strategist admitted to clients this week that the rally for growth has, quote, gone further and persisted longer than we anticipated. we were wrong. the biden white house telling cnbc this, quote, this report confirms what we long said. our strong and resilient economy is bidenomics in action of the president's economic agenda is spurring investments in manufacturing and infrastructure

that are creating jobs and supporting workers. let's bring in "new york times" senior writer david leonhardt and democratic strategist and founder of brilliant corners research, cornell. david, i know you tracked this over a longer stretch than political campaigns sort of thrust these issues into focus when it's something that the two sides are wrangling about, but this is a tortoise and a hare, right? the biden economic message was a message and then it was legislation and then you saw republicans on the road with biden in case it worked, talking to you, mitch mcconnell. and now you see the results. take me through how you see this story. >> well, first of all, let me say credit to morgan stanley for saying we were wrong. everyone's wrong sometimes, but not everyone is willing to say we were wrong. i want to note that. and i think the way you sketched it out is exactly right, which is these kinds of policies do not have an immediate effect and it does seem like president biden's economic agenda is

mostly working. i think the tricky thing is that we've really -- we are on the -- we have now had four decades or so of mostly dark economic trends for most americans. americans without a four-year college degree. that's not going to turn around in a few months, even if the current numbers look good. and so i think it's unlikely, even if the current numbers stay good, i think it's unlikely that president biden is going to be running for re-election in a time when people feel great. the question is will they feel good enough to re-elect him. >> and i guess, david, my question for you is sort of a journalist covering this, the economy is good enough, to your point, that morgan stanley said we were wrong, it's better than we projected it would be. our business model lies in accurately predicting the strength or weakness of the economy and we got it wrong. it's enough for joe biden to run on making better, right? >> absolutely. i think the darkest trends in the u.s. economy predated biden.

predated his presidency. so -- and i think that on the whole, his economic agenda is a real accomplishment for him and i think it's absolutely legitimate for him to make it a centerpiece of his re-election campaign. >> so, cornell, i wanted to establish that before i talked to you because i used to tease on the air and off that the biden economy was like the rodney dangerfield of economies, couldn't get any respect for the things they had done, but you knew it was popular because republicans lied about supporting some pieces of it, some hopped on air force one to share credit for it. but it is a sort of true truth that biden can run on the economy? >> well, look, you would think it would be simple, but it's not. it's actually rather complicated. and if you look at the headlines today, we should be flooding the

box with this, right, from communication for the next two weeks, today, tomorrow, next day. every democrat should be flooding the box with this, right? this is a headline that we certainly should see in advertising, right. biden's economic policies have spurred an economic boon. there shouldn't be a democratic on television talking about anything else, nicole. and why we have democrats on television talking about other things, i don't understand. this is -- i think? part and parcel of the problem that too often with us on democrats, is we are not messge disciplined enough. this is our number one weakness going into re-election. and just for context, you know, in -- at the end of summer, going into the fall of 2011, going into obama's re-election, you had 74% according to "the new york times" polling of americans felt the country was

on the wrong track and the economy was stagnant. by the way, unemployment was at 9, i think 9.1, 9.2%. you had real economic stress happening. we are not there right now. we are -- this president -- this president can make the case that he has steered the ship away from economic calamity, he steered us out of the economic storm, the pandemic storm. right now we have an economy that is the strongest in the western world. and even the economists on wall street, who were doubtful about it, are now changing their tune. nicole, for the next week, if there is a democrat who is on the air and not talking about this, we are failing because, quite frankly, we have to turn perception about the economy, we have to talk up the economy. a couple months ago we were having this conversation about whether, you know, the team biden, they were hesitant and leaning in and talking up the economy. my god. take away all the hesitance.

lean in and talk about the economy. it really is morning in america right now and they have to -- they have to sell it -- they have to sell it to help americans feel it. >> cornell, i feel like our conversations for me always like flesh out the bottom line differences between being a republican and being a democrat. republicans would run on it whether the facts supported it or not. what david is purporting and what we are seeing from wall street is that the facts support it and, to your point, democrats can't rally around a single message. how do you solve that? >> if i had the answer to that, nicole, i would be retired. >> you wouldn't have to do shows like mine, right? you would be a gazillionaire. i get it. i guess it's a real difference in the two parties, cornell. >> it is. but we got to show -- look, and there is -- and the president is doing big things. i am excited about the emmett till thing. it's a bigby big deal.

i am excited about that. and we should be talking about that. but what we from our congressional leaders to our leaders in the states, we should all be talking about what this headline is screaming. that they had it wrong. the president and his economic policies have made america's economy the strongest in the world and we got to keep going with that. every one of us should be talking about that. >> from your lips, cornell. cornell, david, thanks to you and your reporting on this topic and everything. you keep us mart. you keep us honest. thank you. when we come back, one day after the department of justice sued the state of texas after its governor went rogue on immigration policy, reaction from the texas democrat looking to unseat ted cruz. congressman colin allred will be our guest ever a break. don't go anywhere. ak don't go anywhere.

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for senate in texas against ted cruz. so much to get to with you. i want to share some of what's happening on the border with our viewers. this is from the "houston chronicle" in an exclusive bit of reporting. it says texas troopers were told to push children into the rio grande, deny water to immigrants. the email which the troopers sent to a superior suggests that texas has set traps of razor wire-wrapped barrels in parts of the river. it says the wire has increased the risk of drownings by forcing migrants into deeper stretches of the river. the trooper called for a series of rigorous policy changes to improve safety for migrants, including removing the barrels. due to the extreme heat, the order to not give people water needs to be immediately reversed as well. i believe we have stepped over a line into the inhumane. it feels like with the border we keep dancing with the devil here, children in cages, migrants in wire-wrapped

barrels, flotillas, what is going on in texas? >> yeah. well, thanks for having me on. we are a nation of laws. we are also a nation of ideals. one of those fundamental ideals is that we protect human rights at home and abroad with the land of the free and the home of the brave. we are so much better than this. but we are seeing this one-upmanship, as you said, that what are it takes you will be the most cruel, because that's the best way to, i don't know, get on fox news. have an international incident. have the president of the united states have to talk about you. get the department of justice involved. it isn't helping to secure the border, which "the wall street journal" reported on recently. we can secure the border with our values. we know ted cruz well. we know greg abbott won't. >> so, i mean, we also have this heat emergency where the whole idea of not giving water, if

you're a human, i don't know how you deny a human water. talk about the strain this puts on people being directed by the republicans in the state of texas. >> after the second world war my grandfather fought in the navy in the pacific. he came home and as customs officers in brownsville texas, at the tip of texas. he would have never carried out an order that told him not to give a 4-year-old water or not help a pregnant migrant stuck in razor wire. as the report says, you are asking these troopers to leave behind their own humanity, to leave behind their own values and to become a part of something that, if it were happening in another country, we would be condemning from the state department on down. and it's happening here in our name. that's why we have to have a change in leadership, because, as you know, we have had bipartisan frameworks of how to address our immigration system.

how to secure our border, to do it consistent with our values. we have to have leaders in place to do that. that's why i'm running for senate. that's why i ask folks to go to colin allred.com and get involved in the campaign, help us defeat ted cruz. >> you're right. a former texas governor who would become president worked with the late ted kennedy and john mccain to do something comprehensive. i feel like the country, the republicans, my old party, knows less about the actual challenge of immigration than it did 2008. the border is one piece of it. you are right it's where the stunts happen, the cruelty is particular itly satisfying to the sadistic elements on the right. there are a lot of people who overstay their vee as and they are here illegally, too. it's dishonest, the approach that the republicans have. how do you call that out? >> politics like ted cruz go to

rei or down to the valley and acting like they are on a political safari looking through the bushes, trying to find migrants. you are a united states senator or you are our governor. you can do things that will actually help and be kts ent with our values. go do that. we dent need you to be pointing out the problem. we need you to help solve the problem. we know that -- some of these things are driven by geopolitical forces. what we have seen and that the president has not gotten any credit for is that since the expiration of title 42, a 70% drop in interactions at the border because the message has gotten out. don't come to the border for your claims. we are trying to use apps, use centers where you can apply for asylum before you actually come there. it's a dangerous trip under every circumstance. but certainly i think once folks reach our borders, we have to treat them consistent with american values. that's who we are. >> a real contrast. congressman colin allred, thank you for spending time with us

today on these stories. we are grateful. still ahead for us, a startling new report that finds the extreme heat in texas and all over the country and all over the world right now is not possible without man made climate change. we will tell you about it next. t hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking. i needed something to help me gain clarity. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it.

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the world at large continues to deal with record heatwaves and catastrophic weather, a report

released this week says that much of the extreme weather would be virtually impossible without human-caused climate change. world weather attribution an international group of scientists says that because humans continue to burn fossil fuels and emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, we can expect more weather like what we are experiencing, but according to the report, the most horrifying part is that, quote, even if we stop our current output, temperatures would not cool again. they will just stop rising. that's according to one professor in the report. quote, the heatwaves we are seeing now we definitely need to live with. joining ours conversation by phone, andy hoyle, scientist with the noaa physical sciences lab and editor for the american meteorological society's journal of climate. also joining us our friend former white house health policy director and current msnbc medical contributor dr. patel is here. andy, this is, i think, on

everyone's mind because of our current conditions, but there are a whole lot of people that have been working to prevent this moment and are still working to prevent it from getting worse and they have the world's attention now. what do they want everyone to hear and to? >> well, at this moment with increased carbon dioxide emission into the atmosphere we can expect future warming and warming that we have seen for some time now, thereby making extreme heat events that much more worse and more likely. >> i want to read some of what just in this country people are contending with. this is happening across the planet. in the u.s., temperatures in phoenix have reached 110 degrees or higher for more than 20 days in a row. many places in southern europe are experiencing record-breaking triple-digit temperatures. in china hit 126 degrees, breaking the national record. before the industrial revolution

the north american and european heatwaves were impossible. china's heatwave would only have happened once every 250 years. you are describing a new normal. does that mean that winter stops being winter? i mean, just tell us what that new normal might be like for all of us. >> the weather continues to operate as it did, but in a contemporary climate it's different in the sense that temperatures are just warmer. that means we have fewer cold snaps. we have more heat waves. and there is some modifying effects as well in terms of heavy precipitation. so the weather that we see now, we have an increased likelihood of a different type of event, whether it be increased precipitation, more droughts, more heatwaves. >> you know, dr. patel, this is something that every policymaker at a local level is dealing with, protecting elderly or lower income residents from extreme heat where air-conditioning isn't an option

or isn't strong enough to protect them. what are you seeing and hearing in the medical communities in this country? >> yeah, we are seeing absolutely just the immediate effects, but we are also seeing other strange signals which we know are the direct effects of climate change. for example, a shift in patterns of what we would call vector-borne illnesses diseases carried by ticks and mosquitoes, unusual patterns with relationship to mental health, to respiratory diseases, all of these things have an affect on climate, and we are also seeing a shift in how -- i have never seen so many medical professionals actually acknowledging and talking about climate change. the national academies of science for one of its like most preeminent scientific meetings brought together people to talk about climate change. and i think that traditionally in medicine we would have thought climate change, that's a topic for environmental experts, scientists. we are all now seeing how interrelated it is. what's most distressing is that

those disparities that we spoke about during covid where people didn't have access to medical visits, to vaccines, to treatments, that same lack of access is compounded because of, like. so we don't have air-conditioning. we don't have access to clean water. all have access to clean water, all these resources we need in order to stay healthy get even magnified when we have the impact not just of the warm weather, but add to that what we're seeing with wildfiring and smoke, this is in each one of our bodies, even those of us who are healthy and can get to the doctor and can afford -- can explode in each one of us, and that's something we're all sensitive too. >> you made the parallel to mental health and to covid. i think it's another thing that an anxious nation is feeling extreme anxiety about, especially if you're pregnant.

i saw on a msnbc news package earlier, the heat is something she worries about not just for her discomfort, but the health of her pregnancy. >> health of a pregnancy, and children, and you just heard from colin allred about what we're doing at the border, and how are we treating people. this just brings up a lot of anxiety for individuals. i have had patients that have said to me, i'll really scared to travel to certain parts of the country, because they may be other the age of 65 or 70, and they're worried that if it's too hot, going to europe, things you and i would have said years ago, we would love for covid to be over so we can travel, we're seeing that app rehe think, and this is one of the first times i said, if you're of a certain age and have certain conditions, you may not want to travel to these parts of the country. that list is getting smaller as we're experiencing these extremes in climate. >> unbelievable.

thank you both so much for being part of our coverage. quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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mental health care can be life changing and even life saving. for all those brave enough and strong enough to seek help, and i mean that, brave enough and strong enough to seek help, we have to do better. >> president biden announcing new steps his mrs. will take to provide access that health care, mental health care for all american. the rules if finalized would force insurers to make sure meant and physical health benefits are -- equally. it comes amid growing concern of the mental health crisis in our country. early they are year, the surgeon general sounded the alarm about what we called, the quote, help demming of loneliness. we'll stay on the story. another break for us. we'll be right back. story. another break for us we'll be right back.

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thank you so much for letting substance abuse your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with katie feng if for ari. >> good to see you. thanks for handing it off to me. i appreciate it. >> have a great show. >> thanks. the and welcome to "the beat." i am katie feng in for ari melber. we find ourselves in on indictment watch again with donald trump the confirmed active target of special counsel jack smith's january 6th investigation. new tonighting a key witness has met with jack smith's team, and it sheds new light on what prosecutors are focusing on. nbc news confirming a former high ranking