but i think jen, unfortunately there are consequences coming and that are here and that will shake a lot of people and put people into action. the good news is, we still have time. >> welcome to the fight nonetheless. congressman maxwell frost thank you. that is all in this tuesday night. watch and savage and sake every saturday noon right here on msnbc. plus catch original episodes with jen psaki every thursday on peacock. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening alex. tsjen psaki it is a delight to see you my friend! >> i told you i'd come see you in new york so i'm here! >> i am in new york state. i may not be a 30 rock, but i will come visit you shortly. always good to see you even if we are and a handover boxes. great to see a positive energy. >> can't wait to hear your show tonight alex. >> thank you. and thanks to you at home for joining us tonight this evening. we've been keeping our eyes on

the federal courthouse in washington, d.c. where a grand jury may be on the verge of indicting the former president for his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. that grand jury did not meet today. we do not know why they didn't meet or what this means for this investigation, but the jury is expected to meet again on thursday. in the meantime, we have significant revelations about what special counsel jack smith may be investigating. this week we've got new reporting that the special counsel has been focusing in on a white house meeting on valentine's day of 2020. february 14th which was of course months before election day. on that day, president trump reportedly met with senior u.s. officials and white house staff to discuss the election itself. and during this meeting, the president was apparently bragging, not just about, while all the things he brags about, but just how secure the election was going to be.

according to the reporting we have, trump touted his administration's work to expand the use of paper ballots and support security on it on vote tallies. president trump was so encouraged by federal efforts to protect election systems that he suggested the fbi and the department of homeland security hold a press conference to take credit for their work. bragging about the security of election systems. all the way back in february of 2020. president trump knew the election was going to be secure. he knew so well that he wanted the fbi and homeland security to go out and tell everyone how secure america's elections were. put a press release out. talk the public, take credit for in advance. and then something unthinkable happened. a global pandemic. within weeks that meeting, covid-19 was spreading and it was spreading rapidly across the united states.

people were staying home for the most part but remember this was an election year. some states across the country started expanding access to mail ballots in order to keep people safe. people could still stay home but they can also exercise that fundamental democratic right. by early march, the republican state of ohio is expanding mail-in voting. in april states like new york and kentucky followed suit. and then in april, that same month, president trump suddenly decided that the very same election system he had been praising just weeks earlier, that that same election system could no longer be trusted. >> he okay? people cheat. mail ballots are very dangerous thing for this country, because they're cheaters. they go and collect them, they're fraudulent in many cases. >> and trump repeated those claims. he repeated them again and again up until the election. >> this mail-in voting for the

mail and indiscriminately millions of millions of ballots to people. you're never gonna know who won the election, you cannot. that >> we have to be very careful with the ballots. the ballots that's a whole big. scan >> the biggest problem we have right now are the ballots. millions of ballots going out. that's the biggest problem. >> in november, trump lost the election. at that point, trump had so poisoned the well against mail-in voting, and told everyone in his party that it was a scam, that those mail-in ballots ultimately in the end favor democrats. and all the groundwork that trump had been laying with repeated claims about ballot fraud, that became his justification for not conceding the election. when the mail-in ballots were finally counted, and they tipped key races to joe biden, trump claimed that the election was rigged, and he was the real winner. immediately after the election when trump's own head of cybersecurity, a man in chris craig said the election was the

most secure in american history, trump fired him by tweets within days. but all along it sure seemed like president trump knew that he had lost. he'd been briefed months earlier about how secure the election systems were. he wanted to put out of a press release about it. and he had admitted privately multiple times to multiple people that he had lost. >> so we're in the oval office news a discussion going on, and the president says, yeah we lost, we need to let that issue go to the next guy. meaning president biden. >> i remember maybe a week after the election was called, i popped into the oval just to give the president headlines and see how he was doing. he was looking at the tv, and he said can you believe a loss to the sky? >> he did he think he really lost, lot of times you tell me that alaska, the have to keep fighting it, he thinks that there might be an alternative

election, he's pretty well acknowledge that he's lost. so he had something to the effect that i don't want people to know that we lost, this is embarrassing. figured out, we need to figure it out, i don't want people to know that we lost. >> that tension between what trump was saying publicly about the 2020 election and what trump was admitting to in private, that is what special counsel jack smith appears to be zeroing in on at least according to the reporting that we have in these closing days of the federal investigation. so what does all of this tell us and where might this all be headed? joining us now is andrew weissmann, special member of robert mueller's team and co-host of the prosecuting donald trump podcast and of course with his federal former prosecutor barbara mcquade. andrew weissmann first let me start with you. we are on high alert at all times, every time i get upping on my phone i'm convinced this is it and it's go time for a potential doj indictment.

what do you think is happening behind closed doors over there at the special counsel's office? how are we to read activities or lack thereof of the last two days? >> it wasn't that long ago that i was on the inside of this looking out and i have to say that now that i'm on the outside it's moments like this it was nicer to be on the inside and to know what was going on. but if i would hazard a guess from my experience in the mueller team and others, there is an awful lot before you bring a charge of double checking, flights backing, have you looked at everything, a lot of people are looking over every single word in a proposed indictment. every single word, and there's lots of people doing that and that certainly is going to be the case here. so i think that is a key aspect.

obviously there could be holes, last-minute holes that are being filled, whether it's bernie kerik or people are suddenly cooperating he would be not cooperating before, that's another possibility. but i still think we are really close to the finish line. we just don't know exactly where that line is. >> arp, andrew mentions bernie kerik and for those who've not been following this saga of bernie kerik as pertains to january 6th and the claims of a stolen election, he was working on a report for rudy giuliani and has now turned over the notes from this report to the special counsel's office after basically foot-dragging for a while. it sounds like that report contains a lot of and this is not an official term, who we. including false allegations of voter fraud, research under minions securing systems executive, shoddiest istanbul analyses, and witness

affidavits of widespread law irregularities that sow largely baseless. what is the utility of having bernie kerik's pile of interesting notes in the possession of the special counsel's office? barr? >> i think part of it is jack smith just wants to know everything that is out there even if it turns out to be something that is not going to be evidence. he just wants to know what's out there. and with regards to bernie kerik and his connection to rudy giuliani, one unanswered mystery to this whole case is what happened at the willard hotel in that war room? bernie kerik was part of that group along with rudy giuliani. there were connections with roger stone, the people who attacked the capitol, the proud boys in the oath keepers and i wonder whether tax smith doesn't want to close the loop there and see if there can be some connection between mark meadows, donald trump and what happened at the capitol on january 6th. we recall that cassidy hutchinson said that mark meadows was going to go to the willard hotel on the night of january 5th. she talked about even, instead

it's participate in the meeting my conference call. so perhaps can shed some light of what was happening there i, think they'll be very interesting to jack smith. >> so and you, it sounds like there are still some beyond the proofreading in this election of words and the nomenclature of all this, it sounds like there is still some material that needs to be, checked some substantive material whether it's bernie kerik's notes or the reporting we have from nbc notes news that leads to more fake electors have been subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury in early august. i have to ask you. how firm do you think the thinking is, or should we suppose that the deadline that jack smith needs to get done before the fulton county d.a. fani willis releases her indictment, how serious of the timeline is that you think for the special counsel's office? >> i think that the deadline that he might be thinking about is in part fani willis but more

so if you are thinking that the american public should have the benefit of a trial in seeing the evidence whether you are able to prove the case or not that should happen before the election. i think that is what is weighing on jack smith and his prosecutors. and i think that that is the reason that they will be going as fast as they can to bring this to a conclusion. because it's already going to be a very tight timeframe to try to accomplish that goal. and so i think that is the reason that we are seeing them act so quickly. so it's not surprising to me given how much is on jack smith plate and how quickly he has operated that we are hearing about additional leads in additional matters for him to follow up on, because he has really done a herculean job when you think about how

recently he was appointed and how much he has accomplished since that time. >> yeah. i completely agree with that andrea given just the recording of the evidence that we have so far. barba have to ask about this. valentine's day meeting in 2020 that we talked about at the in short of the second segment. trump was briefed by his various intelligence heads and is so enamored of the security in place for the election that he wants to put out a press release about it, or suggest the agencies put out a press release about and brag about the security of the election. how meaningful is that information as jack smith tries to establish that trump knew what he was doing were lies in terms of election fraud? >> i think it's another brick in the wall of the evidence. it's not the whole case but prosecutors are going to have to show that he had this intent to fraud, his corrupt intent, which meant showing and he knew he had lost the election. so to do that, you want to

gather bits of evidence from wherever you can. a jury will be instructed along the lines of, because you cannot read another person's mind, you must draw reasonable inferences based on the totality of the circumstances. everything the person, delivering a person said, everything the person or. so to the extent you can build a wall of evidence with all these different people telling donald trump affair the election was, on security election was. at some point the evidence becomes overwhelming and a jury will be convinced that he absolutely knew he had lost the election. >> in terms of this case and what you are saying and you're about the american public's right to have a trial before the election. there is a ton of evidence that needs to be plowed through in a potential trial on january 6th, and then there is mar-a-lago, which i have to ask, we have reporting today that there were seven additional search warrants filed in that federal case. how do you read that information? i know that there could be seven search warrants for different parts of the

mar-a-lago property or made seven search warrants for different properties. what influences should be drawn from that in terms of the timeline for a mar-a-lago in viscoelastic asian? >> i don't put a lot of stock in the. and part one of the things it's public about the special counsel mueller investigation that we had in the course of 22 months over 500 search warrants. and you might be thinking what does that mean you search 500 physical occasions. the answer is no of course not. but what we did do is do searches of telephones, the actual phone and then searches of email accounts. both of those things require under the fourth amendment and case law that you get a search warrant. so this could simply be a question of different email accounts, and that seems pretty normal for a case to have those kinds of search warrants. and actually be surprised if

there aren't a lot more than that but just unrelated to the mar-a-lago investigation. >> fascinating so don't be thinking this is a search warrant for bad men's. it may just be his email address. very important insight. andrew weissmann please stick around if you will. and more questions for you. barbara mcquade, it's always a pleasure to see. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up. we have new reporting about what churches trump may be facing down in georgia. here's a hint. you are gonna hear the word conspiracy a lot. a whole lot. that's next. and later, the state of florida's strategy to subject its public school kids too conservative indoctrination reaches a new level of absurdity. stick around for that. for that.

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georgia for trump's efforts to overturn the election in that state, there is new reporting on what that indictment might include. today the guardian newspaper is reporting that fulton county dei fani willis has in recent weeks weighed potential statues

i wish to charge trump. and they are, solicitation to commit election fraud, conspiracy to commit election fraud, solicitation to destroy ballots, solicitation of a public officer to fail to perform duties. now, an example of soliciting a public officer to fail to perform duties could be president trump calling the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, and ask mr. raffensperger to find 11,780 votes so that trump could win the state. experts also think the former president have legal exposure under the conspiracy statutes, for the steps his campaign took to replace legitimate electors with 16 fake trump electors. so with me is andrew weissmann, former justice department prosecutor, joining me now is michael more former district attorney for the -- . michael let me start with you,

the word solicitation and the word conspiracy sound alarming. what do you make of these potential statutes and how difficult or how uphill a battle funny willis will have in court to try to prove them? >> it's a pleasure to be with both of you. you know, the charges they looking at here are sort of bread and butter charges for prosecutors. a conspiracy charge is a fairly simple thing to explain, that it is just an agreement between two or more people to do something wrong. they don't have to take some over step or act and efforts to do that. it could be as simple as having phone mills or sending emails to set up the fake electors. having people on the line saying we're going to pressure the secretary of state to do something as to the counts of the ball. that's a fairly simple. solicitation is just asking somebody to do something. so in this case, there's a question whether or not the phone call will be sufficient evidence to say he was asking

brad raffensperger to do something wrong. was asking people to go and taking voting machines are data out of a certain registrars offices. if you just think about this, there's an issue of an agreement and there's an issue of whether or not he is asked somebody to do something. i think she will have the evidence to put that forward. obviously we are at the beginning evidence of stages of the race with whatever charges she comes up with him to have to prove their case before all of the jurors. but nonetheless there seems to be at least some evidence for her to release get an indictment from a grand jury. >> andrea, the phone call seems to be critical here. there is the request to find 11,780 ballots that trump makes raffensperger, but he also threatens him with criminal prosecution. i don't think we have the time to plan tire piece of sound, but the notion that the president of the united states is threatening the secretary of state of the telephone with

prosecution, is that sufficient? do you think that there is any sort of wiggle room on a phone call like that? >> alex, i'm really happy that you are focusing on that part of the tape, because i think if you put those two pieces together, the find the votes, the fact that brad raffensperger says, but there is no fraud, we have checked, there is nothing there, and then you have the then sitting president of the united states, not very subtly saying, you know it would be terrible if you found yourself at the other end of an indictment because of what you are doing. now brad raffensperger was not committing any crime at all. even if you thought he was wrong, and it's not a crime to be wrong. so the idea that he was threatened with criminal prosecution by the president of the united states, i think that is one because there will be some additional evidence, i think that goes a really long way with the jury. that is not normal behavior

even if you thought you had won the election. that is not how you behave and it goes a long way to understanding this was a way of extorting a state officer to not do his duty. >> as both of you have pointed out, michael you just pointed out that solicitation it doesn't unity other prisoners to carry through with the request. when we're talking about the solicitation to destroy ballots, i can only assume that is again when president trump calls georgia officials and asked them to conduct signature verification going back two years which is a much longer window than they are supposed to. does that qualify solicitation to destroy ballots? >> it does. let's take a non-election example. let's say somebody wants to kill their girlfriend or boyfriend and they pick up a phone call up somebody who happens to be an undercover fbi agent and say, i want to pay to

kill this person some night. you don't have to go through with the murder to be charged with the asking or seeking the solicitation to do it. and so that's essentially what you have here. and i think andrew is right. part of that tape is so compelling is the issue whether not the sitting president at the time is threatening the sitting secretary of state with some criminal problem if he doesn't do it. i think is going to be a huge issue. that's just like the recording confession that's been in the d.a.'s hands for this long period of time. i think the evidence is going to be significant. i think there will be more motions in appeals and everything else than we have ever seen in a case like this, or perhaps there is no case like this. the evidence if we just talk about the evidence and what the dea may need to move forward to get an indictment, i think it's been laying in front of her for a long time. >> and you, in terms of the

actual charges. we know about these individual statues. but when we have been talking about fani willis, the thing that often follows or is rico or racketeering. if you are looking at this case, is your expectation that these are gonna be individual charges or assist fold into a broader legal racketeering case? >> i think we could end up seeing both. this is one where you can have a sort of overarching rico charge, and we know that funny willis has had some success of bringing those kinds of cases. but that doesn't preclude her from also bringing these individual charges and so a jury would have all of that in front of them. so i kind of suspect that is what we are going to see because it's really not an either or. we can see both of those. it's a way of also with the rico really able to bring in a

wide range of evidence to fully explain exactly what happened, and then you could have individual charges that are predicated on specific conversations and specific tape recording and specific conduct. but then you have this overarching charge to lay out just the full scope of what she is alleging. >> michael, you are a son of georgia and i love if you could in lightness as to dea willis and her track record on pursuing these sort of racketeering charges and rico and how aggressive you think she's being in this particular case given the reporting we have. >> look, i think the d.a. is known as a capable lawyer and a good lawyer. she's had some success. she's prosecuted some folks associated with the public school system in a rico case. she's been in the middle of a case fact it is gone for many, many months, close to well over half a year now trying to select a jury in another legal case. when you think about these, generally we talk about the

mafia or drug organizations and that type of things. she's used the rico statute to her advantage on some other cases. the reality of the rico statue that is a boondoggle for prosecutors because you get to talk about all the dirty laundry and not just one particular item. so she's got some good lawyers working with her in a rico case and she brought some people and, so i think we're gonna see a rico indictment. i think that could be the only explanation that we're talking about this timeline that is gone on since the beginning of the investigation. i think we'll likely see one in the coming weeks. >> a boondoggle for prosecutors. i'm gonna hold you to that michael more. it's always good to see you. thank you sir for your. time andrew weissmann, thank you for making extra time this evening. really appreciate it. still more to come tonight including revisionist history about the evils of socialism and what people are supported supposedly getting wrong about toxic masculinity. all courtesy of the state of florida.

but first, donald trump is on the campaign trail again today, telling reporters not worried about more criminal indictments. and so far, republican voters agree with him. does this last? we're gonna talk to claire mccaskill about that coming up next. oming up next shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. if you're 50 years or older, his a1c? it's down with rybelsus®. my doctor told me rybelsus®

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of a new poll out today. trump maintains strong gop primary advantage despite indictments. despite being criminally indicted twice, with potentially two more on the way, former president trump very much remains the figurehead of the republican party. according to that poll only one in four republican police are very or somewhat that criminal indictments would make trump a weaker candidate against joe biden in a general election. and nearly half of them do not think that charges hurt trump at all. now this goes with a larger trend we've seen among republican voters, that despite all the evidence to the contrary none of this is a big deal to them. at least as it concerns a existing indictments. what happens if special counsel jack smith brings forth charges related to say trump's role in the january 6th insurrection or his efforts to overturn the

2020 election? or say fulton county d.a. fani willis decides to charge trump with criminal solicitation to commit election fraud? what happens? then with us is to answer this is clara mccaskill, former democratic senator from missouri. always great to have. you i know you and i've been following what has been going on, there have been people who've been ridge alleges sleet falling every turn of the screw as it concerns is indictments and leading up to evidence and potential indictments. but you think the american public more broadly has a real sense of what may be coming down the pipe for donald trump as it concerns these national council? >> i think it totally depends on where you get your information and how tightly your circle of information is drawn. i'm from a state alex were a whole lot of those folks, and

50% for trump's, a whole bunch of missouri's right there, and certainly the majority of the republican party. and so they are not going to be fazed by more indictments. they have been convinced, they have totally swallowed the big lie they have become invent convinced that this is a plot against donald trump. now it's very hard for those of us who follow it carefully and who understand the facts and understand the law swallow that. but that is the reality the republican party is in. now, does it help donald trump in the primary? you bet it does. but does it help the republican party in this country? no it doesn't. because as that poll just showed you alex, 47% of republicans aren't for donald trump, and a chunk of them are really worried about these indictments. they are much more persuadable in a general election to leave their party and reject donald

trump, maybe not a primary it won't be enough, but a general election they can reelect joe biden. >> i have to ask you sort of on the other hand, not trying to draw false equivalence is here, but we see the plot that is being hashed out in the open by lee's congressional republicans who are very much doing the bidding of donald trump. today the speaker of the house of representatives, kevin mccarthy has suggested a potential impeachment inquiry into president biden for what i am not sure. lots of questions they have about potential untoward financial dealings, those may include a single unfounded allegation that biden was on some of hunter biden's business calls or so-called irs whistleblowers that said hunter biden's tax issues were slow locked. when you compare this to what donald trump may be in the hook for, it seems apples to oranges and has been euphemistic. but i wonder if the

misdirection is the point, and if republicans can actually be successful in trying to success suggest that these two men have done inappropriate things? >> i don't think so. i don't think it's going to work. they have not produced -- think of the reams of evidence that is being produced against donald trump. we are talking about indictments on two or three different things. everything from paying off a porn star to defrauding the government out of classified very important national security documents. and lying about having them, and trying to keep them. two false electors to, trying to steal an election, trying to influence the secretary of state, to not do his job. there is a lot of variety of syria, serious stuff. so far on joe biden, they have the tragedy that he has an addicted son that made some very bad choices in his life and a moment when his father was in the public eye, but not

one still teller of evidence connecting that to joe biden. and i think most americans get that. i think most independent voters get. that polling shows that. so i think this is a mistake by mccarthy in terms of him winning in the house or helping a republican candidate for president, because ultimately i think this is just about him trying to hold on to power speaker, and he obviously struggling with. >> claire mccaskill, sage, american sage is what we should call you. former democratic senator of missouri and msnbc political analyst. thank you claire as always for your thoughts. >> thanks alex. >> still to come this evening. while president biden acknowledges america's legacy of racism by designating a monument to one of the victims of one of most heinous acts of violence in the south the state of florida takes the opposite approach to american history. that is next. that is next are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters

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when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful. what i am about to show you here is a sampling of the supplemental educational materials that were just approved by florida's department of education for showing in public schools, kindergarten through 12th grade. >> america is just more than a place on a map. >> what? >> it's a an ideal set of ideas, gradual christian principles. >> despite of what some people

think masculine is not -- >> most gender stereotypes exist because they reflect that many women are naturally different. >> eventually, all socialist countries face serious scarcity basic needs. >> he came to india when the british empire took control, along with advancements in transportation, agriculture and government, the british spread the influence of christiane 80 in western values throughout india. >> the ses, the famous benevolent occupation of in english occupation of india. these are part of craig are you for kids. it's overtly right-wing and answers a question of had for a while. ever since florida governor ron desantis signed states so called stop woke act, which stopped anything from teaching inning woke in florida schools, i've wondered what that will actual mean for lesson plans and class time. while last week we get our first glimpse of that with florida's new history standards that require students to be

taught the black americans benefited from slavery. and now we have another glimpse. figure you kids. the right-wing nonprofit pregnant you never see which is actually not an academic accredited educational instituted says about fighting back against 11 propaganda force in schools. that is about kids magazines a, talk about american heroes, like an, rand jay swab, or was it pushed clean coal, and describe climate change is an unproven and debated theory. it also means videos about why your kid should back the blue and reject black lives matter. it also has crafting lessons like building a model version of israel's iron dome. a classic children's activity along there with cats cradle. lots of overly religious quote

judeo-christian content. all of that is now approved for any florida teacher who was to use it is supplemental content in his or her calm classroom from kindergarten to 12th grade. according to prageru use website. it's coming soon. ladies of that affects you, take just try smiling this is a quote from praeger you on how to be a woman. we have one more story tonight. and it is actually hopeful news about how our country is remembering the darker parts of its history. that's next. that's next. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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taken to be tortured, brutally murdered. back then, it was of torture and certain death in thousand minutes. in a pitch black house and what's on this call dark fear, back then in the darkness, i could never imagine a moment like this. >> emmett till would've been 82 years old today. his cousin we just saw speaking there was with him in 1955 when they visited family in a town called muddy, mississippi. it was there that emmett till was murdered by two white men after white women accused the teenager of whistling after her. that is the unvarnished and

recent history that president biden commemorated today honoring emmett till and his mother maybe tell motley by national monument. that monument is marred by three sites in chicago, the church were till's funeral was held, and the mississippi the wooded area where's body was recovered and the courthouse where his killers were wrongly acquitted. the monument starts in sharp contrast to the efforts that are underway in florida and other republican states to the very opposite. instead of looking honestly at american history, conservatives have launched a multi pronged effort to whitewash it. joining us now is someone who knows about republican attacks on history all too well. nikole hannah-jones, creator of the 1619 project and reporter for the new york times magazine. nicole, thank you so much for making time for the show tonight. i've got to ask you, as we look at this moment, we remind you that when you came out with a 1619 project, trump comes out with a 1776 commission. and i wonder how optimistic you are about the truth winning out

given the battle at hand? >> i think that part of the reason we are seeing efforts like ron desantis and the florida board of education to really whitewash the history and so many efforts being made legislatively across the country is because the truth had been winning out. that we did have large numbers of americans who for the first time we're getting a more honest version of american history. and so that's why this pushback is coming from, that the understanding these truths were coming and breaking through. but i think it's hard to say that i'm optimistic about it, because we are seeing people like governor desantis and his appointees to the board of education. they are successfully using the levers of the state to really try to change our understanding

of history. we are not seeing i think enough efforts to combat that. >> on that and, i guess i wonder what you think about monuments and how much they are an antidote to the whitewashing that's happening, the indoctrination that in fact that is happening around schools across the country. do they matter in this fight? >> monuments matter of course. we memorialize things because we think they are important for us to know. so who we memorialize, how we memorialize, what moments of our past we choose to memorialize clearly matter because in public spaces they tell us what we value as a society and what story we want to tell ourselves about the society. but i actually don't think most of us learn history that way. what's happening in the classroom is much more important because most of us, our understanding of american history, of global history is being shaped into places. it's being shaped in the classroom and it's being shaped in popular media.

so i think what we are seeing in florida and other states, conservative states across the country is far more critical to our historical understanding and kind of our collective memory of how we think about the united states in its history and of course the reason that matters, it shapes how we think about the united states right now. >> when you talk about collective memory, i was so struck and i think all the people that work on the show, that when we talk about emmett till, i think many of us contextualize about something that happened a long time ago. he would've been 82, we have grandparents and some of us parents who are that old. as accuser just died in april. do you think of the struggle of civil rights in the 1950s and 60s as a separate job or chapter from the civil rights struggle that is going on today, or do you think it is as one continuum? i'm like to hear how you process these moments of national trauma and whether you delineate a, b, c, d?

>> let's be clear. my father was about the same age as emma tell. he was born in greenwood, mississippi. and it tell was killed right outside greenwood in muddy, mississippi. they were a few years apart and just like emmett till, my father's mother had migrated north and would send my father home to mississippi in the summers to be with his grandparents. so this is not ancient history. i am 47 years old. a decade before i was born, black people were being murdered across the south trying to fight for basic rights a citizenship. the right to vote the, right not to be racially segregated in schools, in parks, and libraries. of course i see this as part of a continuing struggle. that generation that did not have rightful citizenship in the country of their birth, they are still with us. i interview them often in the work that i'm doing. i featured them in the 16 19

documentary series. and they are still fighting for us to maintain the right to citizenship that we had. and then you have of course this counter movement that is happening, for instance in a place like florida, which is why we are talking about this tonight that is really trying to erase that history, trying to whitewash it, trying to make it seem like that is unrelated to the society we have, that is just part of a distant past, that really wasn't systematic. you, know i spent some time looking at the new florida history standards, and i particularly looked at the way they discussed the holocaust compared to the way they discussed black american experience. they describe the holocaust as a planned, systemic and state sponsored persecution and murder of jewish people. they don't talk about other genocides that have happened in the world when they talk about the holocaust in florida, they don't talk about how jews may have gained some skills that

they could use if they happen to survive the conservation caps. it will talk about any that. and then make it very clear that this was systematic and even have a chapter on the dangers of holocaust denial. and then you compare the black history standards with talk about slavery in asia, like during the ancient sin area, that talk about the skills that slaved people may have gained during the slave area era. and you see what they're trying to do, which is really try to paint a picture of america of a country that never existed. they do that in order to justify the inequality that we see in america today. >> nikhil hannah jones, thank you so much for your time and amazing writing and reporting. really appreciate it. that is our show for tonight. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. lawrence thgood evening alex and i'm so glad you made that point about our sense of where emmett till is in history. i've had miss ordered in my