working. from sunrise to sundown. >> that is such a thankless job. thank you so much. that is it for me today. thanks for being here. deadline white house starts right now. right now. hi, everyone. there is a lot of news today. we will cover all of it. key players, we are looking at you, rudy on the january 6th attack on the u.s. capital. he admitted to lying about georgia election workers that were covered during the conspiracy theory. they were caught up in and harassed because of those conspiracy theories about their role in the 2020 election. we start today with a tumultuous day in court for

president biden's son, hunter biden. he wanted to plead guilty before the plea deal fell apart in dramatic fashion. the hearing appended to be going smoothly before the judge questioned whether the agreement met and mr. biden would be immune from prosecution from other crimes. related to representing foreign governments. when a top prosecutor in the case that it would not, chris clark, originally hesitated and then said that the position would make the agreement null and void. the judge asked the two sides to change the language from the broad scope and it would grant mr. biden on his business dealings. he pleaded not guilty today to two misdemeanor tax charges well the tax lawyers worked on

a revised deal. if he goes through, he will reverse his plea. for the family and president joe biden, it is a another dramatic twist in the presidents sons legal troubles. that is where we start today with some friends from the new york times. mike, i know you have been covering this story all weekend all day and that involved two different parts of the story. a plea agreement and both sides thought would hold. this is dramatic about facing the court. take us into what happened. >> this looks like something that is on track for it to be

resolved today. extensive negotiations went into the deal that was made in june. hunter biden would plead guilty to these misdemeanor charges. what happened today was that the judge had all sorts of questions. there are good reasons for there to be questions. this deal is extremely complicated. a prosecutor who needs to show that they actually did something here. they did find this criminality and they did look the other way. he has to come up with some kind of deliverable for this. on the hunter biden side, the issue that they have is that they are concerned because he has been such a target of trumps fire and if any republican were to come into power, he would be a target or

of they -- he said this the night that he was arraigned in the classified documents investigation. both sides are really looking for something here. in the course of that, creating a very complicated deal that when questioned by the judge on one of the central issues of that deal, if hunter biden would have immunity going forward from his business dealings in countries like ukraine and romania and china, hunter biden's lawyer said that it was our understanding that this deal would cover that. it would immunize him from prosecution on those issues going forward. the government said, no, that is not our understanding of it. from the biden side, that is critical to this plea deal

because they want the exchange for him to be guilty for them to get something back and they know that hunter biden is a target of trump and they do not know what could happen in the future. you are looking for any shield you can come up with. the judge did not like a lot of e a disagreement between the prosecution and the defense about this major issue. we are not back at square one. we are at a situation here where it is not clear was going to happen going forward. >> republican members of congress, did they weigh in on the deal? >> the night before, last night, republican members of congress tried to intervene to file these briefs with the judge to get in front of the judge what the whistleblowers had said in their testimony

before congress. irs investigators that come forward to testify for issues that they have with the hunter biden investigation. that was a highly unusual move. the chairman of the house committee sending this brief to the judge and trying to get it on the docket. for legal experts, they have never seen that another branch of government would but in on another branch as a matter was trying to be resolved. congress trying to force what it had in the front of mind in the judge. i do not have any evidence that it played a role in the deal unraveling today.

it is a another unusual event under the hunter biden story. it is a big theatrical issue. >> takes the name biden and trump out of it for just one second, the people representing the person who was going to plead to some crimes believe that the crimes he was being immunized for had been investigated by the investigators? >> if you are a defense attorney and you have someone like hunter biden under investigation for a long time. you know the government has looked at an array of issues, you will probably not make a plea deal without some kind of insurance that the investigation has come to an end and all the matters are resolved. why else would you plea and give something to the other side without full resolution. this is a client that has dealt

with addiction. this client probably does not want to go to trial on these sorts of issues and wants to put this chapter of their life behind them. if you will come to the table and make a deal, you probably want every matter related to this whole docket of stuff to be resolved. as they had into this critical moment well they talk about the major issues here and if they are resolved, the government and the defense have very different views of that issue. >> the facts as micah has laid them out is that hunter biden was going to plead guilty and a statement of facts would cover the facts as they have been established through this trump appointed u.s. attorneys

investigation. why would anybody plead guilty to any part of the investigation if they are charged with felonies and phased prosecution for other things that are under scrutiny. maybe there are things we do not know yet. why would anybody without visibility plead guilty to any of it. the intervening event, this is what we know about. is this extreme pressure campaign from republicans. we cover the republican side as a political story but as a threat to the rule of law. an open question today. >> that is a great baseline to start with nicole. hunter biden is cooperating with the department of justice to hold himself accountable and be held accountable under the law.

his father has said i will not intervene. i love my son but i will if you department of justice operate independently. those are fairly refreshing after the last presidential term that we saw from trump. house republicans continue to try and interfere with the criminal justice process. submitting these briefs on behalf of the house and heritage foundation trying to interfere with the agreement of the defendant that is cooperating. why did they pull up. it is not over the agreement of taxes on the gun charge. while hunter biden is addicted to drugs, he did not pay his taxes. when he sobered up he paid his taxes back. you say, is that a trial we want to have if he has already made the irs whole. on the second chart, he lied about being on drugs while he was on drugs when he bought a

gun. again, i hard charge to peru. this involves jail time. if it is not something related to the gun that is purchased. the charges part of the prosecution some of said it is too hard. in his reporting in the times, used the term remarkable. it is remarkable that there is a disagreement going into today between defense attorneys and prosecutors over whether or not any of these matters remain open. the doj press release when they released the prosecution, the matter is ongoing we do not think so, this settles everything. that one line was at the heart of where everything fell apart today. there are procedural matters

and constitutional question. that has to be resolved in the courts. ultimately, when he talks about the impeachment inquiry, the question of immunity for the biden family if there will be a political investigation with however this gets resolved. >> i like how you separated the threads out for us. let me ask you the deal with the latter. let's do legal first. you take me through your reaction for what is available in terms of the reporting on what went down in court today. >> i have to give kudos to mike and the reporting along with his colleagues at the new york times. it has created a very complicated legal negotiation. my friend, david jolly just did the expert analysis around that point. my take away from it on the

legal side of it. somebody dropped the ball. either the government lawyers did not represent the government wells or hunters lawyers do not represent him well. in the last piece that david touched on, when you put out the notice saying that we do have this one little bit that we are working on, that has not worked out. we have done that, we have moved on, that is the moment the both sides should've said, move off of the press releases we have put out before we go into or to sit down and make sure were on the same page. we saw the judge do and to express her frustration with a process that should've been resolved. there should've been no confusion in that moment when hunter stood up to give his plea. to mike's point, we are not back to square one but we are

back a few squares which flows into the second point that david touched on. the political process. the members of congress decided to inject themselves into this conversation because they want to exact a political price off of hunter biden in addition to the legal price that could further complicate some of the negotiations. in the end, i don't think so. in terms of how the public looks at it, it creates another level of confusion. >> i want to ask you, is this a worse day for hunter biden or the government? they would not have accepted the plea if they wanted to take two misdemeanor tax charges for -- what they will charge and what they will prove. does this go to trial? is this bad acting for hunter

biden? >> i do not think it goes to trial. it is an embarrassing day for the government. arguably, it is not in the defense interest to go before the judge and say something and plead something that they know they have not agreed to or that there is still a dispute about. they are not in the driving position to create that level of frustration and confusion before the bench. it is on the government and they are the ones bringing the charges. they are prosecuting the case. they sign off on the agreed- upon terms of the deal. the extent that they get up and say something that they know or god forbid, do not know, is in the deal, that is a problem for them. when the defense gets up and says, your honor, wait a minute.

we have paperwork that says x and he is saying y. we do not agree to that. my client will not plea to possibly exposing himself on the backend. this rests with how the prosecutors walked into that courtroom and what they thought the other side agreed to when they knew the other side had not absolutely agreed to those terms. now they have to go back and clean it up. the judge is probably rightly more annoyed with the prosecution because they are the ones who actually cut the deal, the defense cuts the deal. this is what we agreed to. the prosecutor signs off on that deal to get it in front of the court. >> to make sure we understand it, it is hunter biden's lawyer who set up the deal today, >> when this question came up, the deal is null and void.

look, his lawyer is not a public figure. it would be a real pain in the you know why. i do not think he would walk into court to try and starve wrong arm of the government into something even though he is a hardcharging figure. i find that hard to believe. you wonder, where was the miscommunication on such an important issue and how could they not be on the same page? the government and hot and biden are coming on an agreement. there are two other things that are very important. i touched on earlier. the reason for the hangup here, for the major hangup on this question of if hunter biden will be protected,'s lawyers are trying to get the best deal

for him like anyone. in many ways, it is donald trump looming over this. what would he do if he came back into the presidency with the justice department, he said what he would do. what an ally of trump would do to hunter biden. that is a major question at the forefront of the questions around hunter biden. that is why they fought for this part and this language and this provision that would protect him going forward. lastly, whatever comes at it today, hunter biden and the government going back to the table to try and figure this out will not solve the questions that have come up about what really happened here. now you have a judge that has torpedoed it back to square one and they are now going to have to rebuild it or get it back on track somehow.

that is going to create more perception issues that a party come to the forefront of the republican side if they will be able to capitalize that and use that because this will continue to play out, this is not going anywhere. they will come back in a couple of weeks on this issue. who knows where it had. >> the only point to the political analysis is that he was going to go anyway. he could've pleaded guilty and it would've been 20 years jail time, it would not have gone away. this will never end because there are so many people ensnared in the conspiracy theories to find criminality with the biden -- when he was national security adviser he was supposed to take national security off the book and he was told not to work with the

political appointees. they have been at this in the awful way when the u.s. government and all the agencies comfortably politicize them. if there was something to find, they would've found it. >> that is exactly right, nicole. there is a little bit of overlap between hunter biden's remaining criminal exposure, if you will. and the political investigations, they are going to consume the next six months or the year for congress in the nation. the attacks and the gun charges will be settled. those are not parts of national consequence. to close the investigation for the last five years that started under donald trump and started under the department of justice. these two looming questions that republicans like to talk about, for an agent registration, did hunter biden

require him to register as a foreign agent, that is an easy charge to bring. who would've thought that was brought for the case. probably from the prosecution in prison time, that was a question for him. i hate to bring it up. the allegation of bribery that is relying on this unreliable fbi source that he had access to and we are not going to prosecuted. why he wants in this delaware court is immunity from everything saying you have been investigating for five years, let's do the deal, what prosecutors might be saying, we will not do a deal on this other question. even if the department of justice a year from now says that there are no charges, we cannot back it up, most

republicans will. they are willing to jump the broad innuendo app if they can impeach joe biden before the 2024 election. >> the voters before they take joe biden for president, they knew all of this. donald trump had been making the biden family an issue and was so desperate to do so in this awful foreign policy. they know that hunter biden has written a book about his addiction. one in this is the white whale that republicans keep chasing? >> i take your first point that the voters knew about this. did they really? you know. it is one of those in and out kind of stories. going after the president's son. hunter biden is hunter biden. there is a degree of focus from

motors on this. where we find ourselves now is that the story is still in. this goes to the point of jumping that space between what really happened on the lives that someone wants to perpetuate it were create. there is a moment where they potentially converge. that is the problem for somebody like hunter. this should've been resolved from his thinking, today. and get it behind them. there is a lesson of the momentum and energy around these other matters that could've potentially been out there. particularly looking at if they are trying to avoid the registration or anything else. it becomes a very telling moment for how biden is going to move

forward with this with his legal defense. even more so about what we can expect republicans to do in that defense. for them, the door has widened even further. >> let that be the perfect last word. i need you to stick around for the hour. thank you so much for reporting on the story and joining us to talk about it. when we come back, a long- overdue confession that the claims he made about georgia election workers were lies. they were completely false. one of the essential players, mark meadows gives a cryptic and tightlipped response when asked about the investigation. later in the program, they call themselves the elite strike force, the lawyers who have the goods to back up the fraudulent claims of election fraud. his attorneys are coming up against a push to be held

accountable for overturning the election. we will tell you, all of these stories and more after a quick break. do not go anywhere. to anywhere. to ne. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch.

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earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. still be the most innocent victims of january 6th. the mother daughter election working team from georgia described what it was like to become the targets of right- wing conspiracy theories spread by donald trump and rudy giuliani.

a primary driver of the conspiracy theories about them says that they will not challenge the fact that the statements he made about them, which turned their lives upside down, were completely false. the work and take that for granted. moss and freeman became targets of the far right in the weeks following the 2020 election after conservative media and right-wing trolls zeroed in on footage of the mother and daughter moving boxes under a table. he needed the 779 votes and played the video on a rally. >> i've been having terroristic threats, i've been having harassing phone calls and

emails and they come out and made a police report yesterday. and last night about 10 minutes after 9:00, somebody was slamming on the door. and now somebody's being on the door again. oh, they are screaming. they're still banging on the door. lord, jesus, where the police? oh, god. >> freeman received hundreds of threats, vile and violent threats. five days after freeman called the police, he attacked her and her daughter in front of george lawnmower -- lawmakers. >> moving them around like they are miles of heroin or cocaine.

to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are engaged with illegal activity. >> what was your mom actually ending you on that video? >> a ginger mint. >> obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator, it was a ginger mint. they dismissed the investigation into fraud clearing them of any and all wrongdoing. and now he concedes the statements that he made of them to change the current civil case proceedings. joining us, a member of the january 6th committee and professor of law at the university of utah. congresswoman, it seems that protecting the democracies and the driver, shielding oneself from civil and legal exposure,

i agree legal analysis for the dominion lawsuit for some of these conspiracies, it appears that saying he knew these attacks on these human beings whose lives are forever changed is false, he did not do it out of conches. >> correct. he made the lives of these two workers miserable. he terrorized and certainly the new york times, they are not public figures, they are just full workers. he and the president pulled them out of x purity and lied about them and they had to move out of their house and hide all for a life for a political purpose. it is disgusting and i hope that mr. giuliani and the ex-

president are held accountable for what the did for these two women. >> the select committee sort of shared with the country. their descriptions was that they were terrorized by trump supporters because of the wise are some of the most searing impressions. i would argue that the trump supporters who lied about the terrible things he did because he believed the lies. are also quite memorable. what are they owed? the innocent people and the end of the tale, what are they owed? the target letter has been sent to donald trump in the january 6th inquiry. >> they are owed to justice. a lot of innocent people were harmed by ex-president trump and giuliani and the rest of

his team. people who engaged in wrongdoing because they believe what trump told them. people who were completely innocent bystanders like these two poll workers. we need accountability in the justice system for those who engaged in behavior that really punish innocent people there are several avenues to address this as well. i hope that those who have been harmed have an opportunity to get justice in the civil system as well. we are all waiting to see what the special prosecutor does, ordinarily, i understand we do not have a target letter unless there is an indictment following, it does not always happen, he usually does, we are waiting to see what happens there. >> chuck rosenberg said that he said the same thing. he would not charge them with

crimes. take us through why rudy giuliani would admit these lies. is it too get rid of the discovery that the fox executives went through? >> it is a staggering stipulation to make that the president continued to assert more broadly about election to nihilism. and specifically about the goings-on in georgia. there are three explanations. the first is that the explanation is what giuliani has given. efficiency and resources wanting to get to the beef of the case and move over to a state where various motions can be made. that is not the assertion and strategy that you would pursue if you had meaningful evidence. you do not have any evidence

that the truth was said. it is a made up line that you do not want to move forward with the litigation. the next question is discovery. this is the definition suit, they provide to each other all of the information that they might have, documents, exchanges, email correspondence, and so forth, the question of these elements that the plaintiff has to prove up. these have had real trouble getting giuliani to comply with some of these requests. they asked the court for $90 worth of sanctions. because of feet dragging on his part. this decision does get past that. it moves to a place where the discovery and information of

what people inside the inner circle of trump's campaign were saying to each other and giuliani. moving to a place where motions for the conclusion of the case is going to happen more quickly. it puts giuliani in a position where he cannot argue these things if they were true because they cannot demonstrate from the evidence that they are false. he is now in a position where what he can argue is that he told these false and defamatory lies because i have ace free- speech right to do so. >> how does that play with jack smith? >> they were very careful in this most recent filing that they are conceding these things to this suit. for purposes of the civil defamation suit. there are other moving parts in georgia. the ways that these will

interact in the coming weeks and months will be interesting to watch. >> think you both so much for spending some time with us on these developments. next we will turn to jack smith who is investigating multiple aspects of the trump coup plot. coup plot. my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements. ingrezza is different. it's the simple, once-daily treatment proven to reduce td that's #1 prescribed. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds.

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have you testified before the grand jury? do you feel like it's appropriate? the investigation? >> the click of the door as our chief of staff was questioned today by the nbc news colleague. we are back with michael steele and david jolly. i heard that. at least it is january 6th and not dogs. what did you hear? >> i served with mark meadows. he has remained now the biggest open? for me. i.e. to make this sound personal, he would give up the president. i think you would think. for reasons of protecting his own credibility. we know that he knew that the

big lie was a big lie. is he willing to put himself in personal jeopardy? he is willing to kick donald trump to the curb. when jack smith finally reveals everything he has, mark meadows will be a central figure to whatever charges are brought to him. >> cassidy hutchinson has already shared everything she knows. i worked in the white house, she knows everything that mark meadows knows. she might not have seen everything that donald trump saw. she knows everything that mark meadows did and knows what gave him pause. she knows when he would not stop and what he was asked to do by donald trump. they had a year had start on mark meadows because cassidy hutchinson decided to deal with any of the other colleagues did not. she talked. >> that is the fun part of this

whole thing. in relations to mark meadows. watching him now have to come and talk, not really knowing what cassidy said, how to see the context in which she placed him in conversations that she was in the room for. yeah. it was an interesting squeeze for jack smith. the initial inflammation, we want to get mark meadows and go right forward, right? we can wait. we will just wait a little bit longer. we've got time. we have to stretch this thing out. in all that time, they are pulling and other resources of information and cooperation. you lied to us when we originally talk to you. make a note of that. when they get him in the room

and start the conversation, he does not know what they got. he does not know all of what they know. to david's point, he has to sit there and know how much of my really going to give up for this man? i will not give him anything in return other than my freedom and that only comes if i cooperate with them, not relying on donald trump to have my back. donald trump does not view mark meadows the way he viewed his cfo. okay, i will go to jail for you. i'm not going to jail for anybody. >> right. david, the other thing that we do not have much visibility into, the role of his attorney. he would've known what was going on and had some visibility with what is being gathered on mark meadows.

to your theory, to subscribe to that theory, there is a lot of evidence that mike meadows is the last to go in. >> the most eligible for prosecutors to talk to, i am not spoken to mark meadows since he went to the white house. here is someone who has no more political ambition. he wants to become chief of staff to the president because the maps were pushing him out of the congressional district. you do not see him run for governor or president again. it means you will not behave like those who will be president. he wants his freedom and his ability to earn money. he wants to respect his conservative peers. there is no incentive for him to cover up for donald trump. he makes such an intriguing witness. especially at this investigation. >> we will keep watching.

after the break, will turn to news about mitch mcconnell who was escorted away from a press conference after he stopped talking and was freezing up. next. eezing up. next.

good cooperation and a string of --

>> are you okay, mitch? anything else you want to say or just go back to your place. >> do you want to say anything else to the press? let's go back. >> go ahead, john. >> we're all still human beings, but it was a shocking and upsetting incident. michael steele. i've watched that a few times and he gets to the middle of a sentence and then stops suddenly. loses -- seems to lose the ability to continue the sentence, sways, lists and then several republican senators lead him away from the podium.

i want to just keep all the facts front and center for our viewers. he did return to the podium and continue with the press conference a little bit later. his staff said he felt lightheaded and stepped away. he may have felt lightheaded but he didn't step away, he was clearly escorted away, michael steele. >> i hope the minority leader is doing well and i've worked with hitch for a long, long time, and have great admiration for him despite the facts that we may sometimes disagree on some of the politics of how we do things. that was a very chilling moment and i think it, you know, not to speculate too much out of the box but i think that fall that he had earlier this year, that there still maybe some lingering effects from that and so they've been very careful with mitch when he comes out, the amount of time he's spending in the public

space of his job, so i suspect we'll probably see them continue to do that even more guardedly going forward to make sure that, you know, he's in his best health and best capabilities to do the job. >> so, david, i'm just going to say it because it needs to be said, i wish him well. i wish no ill health on any human being in the arena or outside of it, and if this were joe biden, there would be impeachment proceedings under way for sentence interruptus. >> that's exactly right. our collective best wishes and prayers for mitch mcconnell's health and does raise the question that republicans like to raise about joe biden, which is one of age and i think importantly at least from where i sit i think we have to shut down questions of age in our body politic and focus on personal fitness. is someone capable of serving? are they of sound mind and the right health to continue to serve the nation? but i think, secondly, a big question is, is there ideology

contemporary with the times? this is a true political question of who we are as a country and would we can be, because i would much rather have an 80-year-old joe biden than a president ron desantis who reflects the cultural movement of 80 years old. that's the most important thing. do we have in joe biden and our supreme court justice, in our senate leaders, house leaders, do we have people fit for office and capable of leading the nation but most importantly, does our outlook for the nation and ideology match who we are today and who we can be as a nation? >> i feel like that is the next conversation the three of us need to have, who is looking out for the country, our kids will live in it. david and michael, thank you very much. the news requires such wisdom and nuance and thank you both for spending the hour with me today. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. like here. and here.

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a truck pulled up to the detroit center where they were counting ballots. the people thought it was food,

so they all ran to the truck. it wasn't food. it was thousands and thousands of ballots, and the ballots were in garbage cans. >> the dominion voting systems, the smartmatic technology software and the software that goes in other computerized voting systems here, as well, not just dominion were created in venezuela at the direction of hugo chavez. >> if the united states caves to corruption, or this type of election integrity, disaster, then no election will be secure from here on out. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. i'm so sorry. i know we can never unsee that, right? but it's really important. it was all b.s. and we're learning more and more about the fact that they knew that at the time. those were trumps lawyers spouting absolute nonsensical

nonsense as rudy giuliani's hair dye started to run down the side of his face with a potential federal indictment coming down the pike for the ex-president over his actions in trying to overturn his 2020 election defeat. we will not forget his enablers, the army of attorneys who were the key players in the attempted coup. those three are cream of the crop, if you will, rudy giuliani, sidney powell and jenna ellis, they spread the most insane conspiracy theories and falsehoods about voter fraud that was nonexistent. they spread the lies everywhere and anywhere, on fox news, state legislature, in front of the four seasons landscaping business, now they are facing the music or starting to. politico report, quote, giuliani had his law license suspended in new york earlier this month. the disciplinary committee recommend he be disbarred for frivolous and destructive conduct. a federal appeals court upheld

court sanctions against powell for making entirely baseless claims and frivolous allegations of widespread voter fraud. in march ellis was censured by a judge in colorado for making false claims on twitter and to nationally televised audiences that undermined the american public's confidence in the presidential election. the news today that we covered in the last hour, giuliani is not contesting, in other words, he's now confessing that his statements about georgia election workers, ruby freeman and shaye moss were lies, only further underscores the misconduct by these lawyers and the fact that it's finally catching up with them. beyond those three there's, of course, the chief grand pooh-bah, john eastman, the author of the memo that falsely claimed mike pence could stop the electoral certification. he's currently facing potential disbarment in california. there's jeffrey clark, the former doj official who trump wanted to and actually did for a few hours make acting a.g.

he's going through some things, a disciplinary proceeding in d.c. to start then lin wood, a georgia lawyer who spread the big lie. he retired recently to avoid getting disbarred. holding these lawyers to account is the chief mission of a legal advo ka group 65 project named after the number of lawsuits filed by trump's team to overturn joe biden's legitimate victory. politico writes about the group's formation, the idea for the group originated in 2021 with melissa moss, a veteran democratic strategist who was dismayed by the long list of lawyers throughout the country who had in various ways tried to assist trump in his efforts to overturn the election. like a lot of people i watched with horror as these lawyers who are officers of the court were filing these bogus lawsuits to tie to overturn a free and fair election. i kept thinking about the fact that unless these lawyers were held accountable for their actions in other way, which had

a focus on their license to practice law, that they would do it again. and they would try to do it again in 2022 and they would certainly try to do it again in 2024. holding trump's attorneys accountable for trying to overturn a free and fair election is where we begin with some of our favorite experts and friends, former u.s. attorney now law professor at the university of michigan barbara mcquade is here with me at the table, host of "fast politics" podcast and "vanity fair" special correspondent molly is back and our friend and the host of "the on brand podcast" johnny deutch is back. as the only lawyer of the group i start with you. this feels like getting them where it hurts even if it takes a very long time and isn't as high-profile as a special counsel investigation out of doj. >> yes, nicolle, i think it's essential that these lawyers be held accountable for their lack of candor, not only to the public but also to the court. lawyers are held to a higher

standard. there are ethical standards about saying things that are truthful, so it is, i think, refreshing to see that they're being held accountable through bar associations. now, that certainly does not preclude criminal charges and could very well be we see one or more of these lawyers also part of some sort of conspiracy to defraud the united states and as you say, the real important value of holding people accountable is the deterrent value. one of the theories of punishment. why we punish people so others will watch that example and decide it's not worth taking the risk in light of the consequences. >> what's amazing to me, barbara, is there's so much latitude, right? i mean, mobsters are entitled to a robust defense and they don't get in trouble representing mobsters. murderers are entitled to a robust defense. nobody disbars criminal defense attorneys for representing even the murderers accused of carrying out the grizzlyiest crimes. there's so much latitude to represent and defend people.

how is it that all of trump's election lawyers cross that line? >> so, certainly everybody is entitled to a criminal defense. people are even entitled to have lawyers bring their case affirmatively as these lawyers did in civil cases. but what you can't do is make false statements in court. a defendant who is charged with a crime can invoke his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination to testify and a lawyer can support that decision. but to go in and make overtly false statements, these statements that you just played from giuliani, and powell, and ellis, about hugo chavez and other things, just absolutely no evidentiary basis and the case in michigan against sidney powell, that judge held an eight-hour hearing where she went through claim by claim of the statements she made and asked her what was the basis for each and she had none. so, these are the kinds of things that lawyers are not permitted to do. they can take aggressive legal

positions in court but they cannot tell lies and so it is very satisfying, i think, to the rest of us in the legal profession who work hard to maintain the dignity and respect of the profession to see those who taint the brand and see them held accountable. >> i think this idea as a nonlawyer that there's so much you can do in this spirit of this principle that anyone accused of a crime deserves a robust and aggressive defense if that's what an attorney wants to provide and that as with fox, i mean, you can say so much on -- too much. i can get myself in trouble any day of the week. you could say so much. but -- >> we'll be here for that. >> but that wasn't enough for fox. the reason fox paid close to a billion dollars to dominion is because it wasn't enough to have their own opinion, it was because they knowingly peddled falsehoods. this feels like the parallel in the legal world. >> a great parallel. this is not a case of just representing heinous people. this is juice out and out lying.

you know, giuliani came on there and we at the table chuckled. it's gotten to that point. >> correct. >> a little anecdote about when rudy giuliani is right now, i don't know if you familiar with the gilgo beach murders on long island, giuliani pulled up in a car, of course, he's doing a show "america's mayor live" to all the people who gather around the house, he was just a quiet man, that's what rudy giuliani is doing right now. >> you're kidding? >> no, no, i have video. >> we'll look for that. >> that's what -- it can't get any lower for this guy and, you know, the one thing that's really held through all of this is the judicial branch of the government. whether it's the 80 cases that they've just thrown out or what's happening now, that is where the system has not broken and has stayed is in the judiciary part of our branches of government is the one that no matter how you slice it, kind of stepped up to the plate. >> yeah, and i think the

contrast, right, so they brought 61 cases and lost 60. they had no courtroom victories. doesn't pump the brakes on the lies and increases their own professional legal exposure. >> well, you know, i interviewed melissa when she started this project, and i asked her, you know, kind of why she had decided and she said, you know, the bar association has an ethics component. you cannot be a member of it if you act in bad faith and can get these people disbarred and she did it. you know, quietly she's gone through lawyer after lawyer and made sure to get these people are not going to be lawyers, a lot of them, maybe not all of them will not be lawyers anymore and they will not be able to do this in '24. >> barbara, what is the sort of calculation you thin that makes it possible for trump and all his people to continue to hire

lawyers? >> well, i think that one of the things donald trump tries to do is in addition to using lawyers in the courtroom, to defend him and to bring claims is i think he likes tos proxies. rudy giuliani built up a lot of good capital when he was the mayor of new york and certainly the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. so when he goes out and says things for donald trump people until recently would believe him because he had this credibility and so it is sort of attaching your own name to somebody who has stature in the profession. so i think that is something that trump tried to do. now, at this point it is difficult for. >> dr. jen: to find lawyers willing to represent him because of the taint that comes with it. you see all these lawyers end up needing to hire their own lawyers because they end up caught up in some of these schemes so i think it will become increasingly hard for him to hire them because of the way he treats them and throws them under the bus. >> this is dershowitz talking to

politico. quote, when i spoke to dershowitz i told me the group's work has taken a toll on lots of lawyers. he and i were speaking a couple weeks of trump's indictment over mishandling classified documents in wake of the reports that trump was struggling to find lawyers in florida to work on his defense. i can tell you, he said, i got calls from three lawyers over this past week who were asked to either represent trump or trump's co-defendant and all three of them pointed to project 65 as among the reasons why they wouldn't consider taking the case. >> now a self-fulfilling prophecy. what high-minded lawyer of integrity is going to go into any of these indictment cases going forward? i mean -- >> or even a low-minded one who doesn't want to hire a criminal defense lawyer. >> everybody is entitled to a fair and legal defense. he's not going to get a good legal defense. he's going to get one but all the good lawyers have gone bye-bye. can you imagine a lawyer taking on donald trump at this point? somebody that has any prestige in any area of their legal

practice. >> we also have so much more visibility into what he asks his lawyers to do. i think the thing from the jack smith indictment that i come back to over and over again is that the indictment describes, you know, what trump did asking his attorney to pluck out the really -- just making a plucking gesture with his hand, i mean, the things that they must see certainly exceed what spills into public view. >> you have to remember, this is donald trump's history, right? he came up through the sort of roy cohney mafia world in '80s new york and '90s new york that we know about so i think he -- this is not so surprising and i think what you've seen with trump, he'll admit this to you. you are know, he'll say it to a reporter, i mean, i don't think he believes, again, who knows what is in his head but i don't think he believes he's wrongdoing this. >> well, but the thing about the

mafia lawyers and i sort of have a pet fascination with mafia lawyers is there's no project 65. they're actually able to stay on the other side of being disbarred. >> well, there's a difference between as i said representing somebody who is a serial killer, a mass murderer or grisly murderer versus getting up and spewing falsehoods and lies. >> that you know are falsehoods and lie. >> that's the distinction so i don'tny that has to do with the quality of the person or the lack of quality of the person you represent. it has to do with just our legal system. >> and the quality of the lawyering. i want to turn, barbara, to what you think is going on inside jack smith's probe in terms of the legal/criminal exposure facing the lawyers, the john eastmans, jeffrey clarks. do you think they're in trouble? do you think they have legal defense apparatuses in place? >> i think they are likely to be at least subjects of this investigation if not targets, and i base that on some of the

things that they were doing when they were scheming not only to use the fake electors but also that episode where they attempted to weaponize the department of justice when jeffrey clark proposed sending out the letter to the states. he had marked up one for georgia as a prototype suggesting to them that they reconvene to select alternate electors because of fraud. it is, number one, it was false, number two, he knew it was false and, number three, it is so contrary to the way the justice department acts in terms of deference to the state federal divide in the law as well as different branches of government. the idea that the justice department is telling the legislature of a state what to do is unthinkable so i think for his conduct, it's hard to imagine that he doesn't get caught up in that conspiracy to defraud the united states. same with john eastman. you know, he is the architect of the scheme of the he's got a plan a and a plan b involving mike pence.

i note that the justice department did seize the telephones of both of those men so they've got the text messages and the phone calls that can be a treasure trove of evidence so i'd be surprised if they're not involved in the indictment in some way. >> let me read you some of the recent reporting in "the washington post" about the disbarment holding john eastman accountable for what barbara described. duncan carling argued that all of his conduct was focused on the single purpose of obstructing the certification of joe biden's electoral win on january 6th. quote, dr. eastman sought at every turn to avoid every public test of his theory and he privately confessed that his theory had no chance of persuading the court. carling said in the opening statement -- he was fully aware his plan was damaging the nation including putting pence in danger during the insurrection and his actions, quote, breached the most important ethical

duties of attorneys of honesty and adherence to the rule of law and brings into sort of vivid, you know, flashback the evidence of that email exchange that as it's happening to eastman, you did this and eastman is still on team trump saying, don't be a you know what, mike, do it. >> if that doesn't get you disbarred, i don't know what the threshold of disbarment is. i mean just basically lying and putting our country's safety, our vice president's life at risk, our democracy -- i mean, i don't know how low you can go but if that's not disbarment then i don't know what it is. >> you know, there is this thing that the trump story and the people around him do to us, right, because they function at these low levels of, you know, well, is it a crime or just on the other end of a crime? we forget what politics was supposed to be. we're debating whether endangering the life of the vice president and the piece of evidence that he knew it was illegal and unconstitutional he

acknowledges in written communications we've seen from the congressional probe it violates the electoral count act, i think that's a quote and it would lose in the supreme court not 7-2 but 9-0, yes. in things that have not been disputed we know that's on the record under oath, so, again, just sort of living at the bottom of the barrel between known criminality, obvious criminality and is it on the other side? it's still a sick place to be. >> what shows this better than anything is dan quayle had to tell mike pence that you can't do this. this is not okay. i mean, dan quayle was never held up as the paragon of political genius and he was like, you cannot do the wrong thing. >> he wasn't corrupt and he wasn't illegal and he wasn't a coup co-conspirator. >> exactly. >> that's what we're dealing with here. barbara mcquade, i'll give you the last word. >> well, i think that we've been talking a lot about lawyers and how they could be held

accountable through disbarment and that's an important first step that could prevent them from continuing in the legal profession but i think it's important they be held criminally liable as well. people can be disbarred and can petition to get their license back or move on to another field but you take away somebody's liberty is what is necessary to send a very important message of deterrence. >> barbara mcquade, thank you very much. next time at the table, i hope. molly and donny, stick around. for us the political ad running in iowa that has very clearly made its way under the skin of the twice impeached, twice indicted, disgraced ex-president. we'll show you what made him so mad after a short break, plus, a staggering burst of russian disinformation from where else, robert kennedy jr., which proved too much even for fox news's sean hannity. we'll show it to you and a wild hearing on capitol hill, the subject, ufos, of course. you don't want to miss it.

"deadline white house" continues after a quick break. now she gets to pick only the perks she wants and saves on every one. all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon.

the twice impeached twice indicted civilly liable ex-president continues to lead in early republican primary polls, new ad out against him seeks to leverage an unlikely group against him. his own ex-supporters. take a look. >> i've been a republican my entire life. >> i voted for donald trump in 2016 and 2020. >> i did vote for donald trump the last two times. >> he was the right candidate at the right time. >> no matter how much i loved what he did when he was president, i just don't think he's electable at this point. >> if donald trump is the nominee he'll lose.

>> he's carrying so much baggage. >> criminal charges. >> january 6th. >> different indictments right now. >> it's too much of a polarizing figure. >> trump has too much baggage. >> we need to get somebody in that can take care of this now. >> so the important part of this story is that it drove trump mad. and here's why. it's part of a $1.5 million ad buy by the republican accountability pac hoping to reach the 30% of republican primary voters who still support the ex-president but who are afraid he could lose the primary and the new ad might just have really irked him earlier today. he posted on truth social with his trademark eloquence, quote, just got my best polls ever in iowa and yet they put up fraudulent ads talking to people who say they won't be voting for me. what kind of stuff in miss fearous quotes is that? iowa will vote big for all caps trump exclamation point.

joining us is pollster and founder of brirlant corners research, cornell belcher, molly and donny with us, as well. cornell, from the sublime conversation about this to the ludicrous response from donald trump to the republican accountability project, your thoughts? >> well, you know, i don't often agree with trump. [ laughter ] but i kind of agree with him on this, i mean, and here's the thing, so i am more convinced that donald trump is probably the nominee for the republican party now than i was a couple weeks back, because clearly all these organizations have done research and they've done polling and they've done focus groups with voters, republican voters trying to come up with an attack, as we always do in campaigns so they've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, nicolle, trying to figure out the best attack on donald trump and then to put it up on air.

you as a campaign professional know they've done this and this is the best they've come up with and the problem with this line of attack is, i get they have to do it but the problem with this line of attack is the monmouth poll that came out showed 70% of republican voters think that donald trump is, in fact, the strongest candidate who they have against president biden, and the fact that the majority of republicans actually think that donald trump won the election, so their ee liktability argument is problematic being that they overwhelmingly think that he's the strongest candidate and, two, they actually think he won the election the second time. >> cornell, you and i never had to run campaigns. this is a serious point where the reality on earth one and reality on earth two are so different. christian christie is running as an earth one character to rule earth two. i mean, it is the weirdest thing. and i guess the only thing i would come back at you on, i

don't care what republican primary voters think about it. i want independents and democrats to see it. >> well, that's the whole problem is that they are in a different place because most mainstream voters don't think that donald trump won. don't think donald trump won the election. they have real issues with donald trump on january the 6th and have real issues and doubts about him being indicted multiple times. so in the real world, all the things that these ads are saying are problematic about trump. they actually do work. but not with the republican primary voters. >> and, donny, i think it's too early to know whether that matters. they may be doing some good for joe biden with the middle. >> yeah, we're not going to know. as interesting -- as a former ad guy and i say, what would i do as an anti-trump ad and the obvious place you go, because you can't just dump on trump.

at this point -- >> if it worked he'd be gone. >> eight years of it, we could do a 24-hour special on it so the obvious place to go is he can't win. i'm convinced that there are such a large percentage of trump voters that they don't even care. voting for him is an emotional self-fulfilling mission that i don't know if that left brain intelligent argument gets even through to the point where they'll go, well, either i don't care or, yes, he can win. but it's that only place to go as an advertiser which he can't win and look at this. anybody but biden. emotionally doesn't hit the nerve. they still want to vote for this guy. it's in their core, it's in their gut. it's a big screw you to the world and you're not taking that away from me and i'm pounding my chest. >> and i guess to our country, does it matter? >> i mean, i think -- what does?

>> look, you've got this base that can't be persuaded even if they know he's going to lose, even if they know he can't win and actually realize any of what they've been promised, if that proves out, right, if he is unelectable nationally, you know, i don't think we want to do anything to make him win the primary, right? i mean, that's playing with the devil and i don't support that in any primaries. i think that is just a fool's errand but if it is as intractable as expert ad makers say and pollsters, the economic news this week, i mean the greatest danger to the republican messaging operation is if people find out that even banks are revising their economic forecast. >> no you can't put up points on the board any better whether it's gdp or manufacturing, whether infrastructure, jobs, wages, consumer sentiment, it's just -- inflation cooling.

you got no moves. >> david said banks don't admit they're wrong very often but they are. >> and today the fed says they don't think there will be a recession. i mean i think it's been amazing but i also think that if we're saved from autocracy, if we are saved from this very scary movement, this republican party that no longer believes in democracy, it will be because the trump supporters are on earth two because they think their guy already won. >> they're going to vote their gut even if they know he can't win. >> either they don't square or they'll convince themselves that that's just -- >> to cornell's point they convinced themselves that he is president of something. >> car rhiannon lake thinks she is governor? >> of what ask. >> of arizona and she is not. she did not. katie hobbs won that race, but i mean, this is the problem with dealing in unreality is that you never at any point are able to inject reality. >> it's fascinating. >> can i dive back in real

quickly? >> yes. >> such an important point as insiders, they're making a process argument and i don't think they have an emotional argument. i don't think they don't beat donald trump in a republican primary with a process argument because that's just -- doesn't work that way but what's the emotional argument to poff them away from donald trump? and i think sort ofesantis' idea he is even further to the right emotionally beating up on people hasn't worked either so i don't know -- they don't have an emotional argument to check donald trump. >> that's such a good point really quickly. desantis tried to be, you know, meaner and more brutal and i don't know what and it's a colossal failure. >> he ran to the right of trump as trump without the personality, which was -- you know -- >> great set of words, negative charisma. >> negative charisma but he's a candidate who nobody wants and ran on policy, donald trump was never about policy.

>> jeb bush tried that and eats pudding with his fingers. there's that. no one is going anywhere. robert kennedy jr.'s bizarre and dangerous disinformation sounding like something straight from the kremlin and the alarming response it received from an audience on fox news. we'll be back with that story next. don't go anywhere. your car insu. so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ young lady who was, mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. she had a lot of questions when she came in. i watched my mother go through being a single mom. at the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself.

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so ukraine to appease putin, rather, who i think is evil, they've already given up crimea.

it was annexed so, what, now they have to give the donbas area. >> you know, ukraine because of our pushing ukraine into the war on two occasions in -- >> we pushed them into it -- >> putin in good faith began withdrawing troops from the ukraine. what happened, we sent boris johnson over there to torpedo it because we don't want peace. we want the war with russia. [ applause ] >> why are you blaming america's role in this? >> so here's the deal. when you're so cray that your sentence starts putin, comma, in good faith, comma and sean hannity is like, whoa, whoa, whoa. >> edward r. murrow. >> i mean, again, i said this at the beginning. when you are operating at the bottom of the barrel, you're always going to be straddling a line with the devil. >> yeah, you know, i was on last

week talking about rfk jr. he is a dangerous fellow because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. what is the next fire i can breathe because the dilemma we talk about we kind of have to cover it. it's rfk jr. and he is a -- he is a heat-seeking missile. he's somebody that is not going to go away. he's addicted to the same heroin trump was addicted to. he was never relevant. should have been relevant his whole life but was nothing but a detriment with his problems all along. he did some good work on the environment but had a lot of problems and he at age, i guess he's in his mid-60s is finding a light and he's loving that light and the way that light keeps getting brighter, although more heinous is doing the sack things he's doing. >> i do not think that we know how this story ends and i believe that the way voters consume information in his case disinformation he may represent a more lethal threat to the republican nominee than the

democratic one. >> well, he has a lot of republican talking points. >> they like him. let me show you the polls. the democrats have an overwhelmingly -- he's upside down with democrat, 21% favorable close to 50% unfave. among republicans, almost 50% like him and represents a greater electoral threat to republicans than democrats. >> a lot of his ideas sealing the border, right. >> anti-vax lunacy where you stop babies on hiking trails. i think tucker carlson did a block on that. >> how much do people consume because the name, you can't have a bluer name than that and that will be on the ballot. the question is how much is a headline and how much is the second or third piece -- >> the way people consume information on their phones, they're just as likely to have seen that clip, the clapping and say, oh, fox news republicans clapping, kennedy is my guy and to associate the name with the history. >> but to this point, the republicans seem to be more excited to have him around than the democrats. but to your point, it really --

we could give an hour argument each way who he hurts more. >> sean hannity being like putin who i think is a bad guy just fyi. >> that was his comment. whose evil. >> you had to have sean hannity to try to scaffold the event and still rfk jr. was like, putin who is operating in good faith trying to make peace. i mean, that was wild stuff and i mean, i don't know how even if you agreed with everything else he said that you wouldn't think this person was really a ridiculous person. >> cornell, you're still with us? >> yeah -- >> go ahead. >> the upside of this and this is important, we needed that clip. because there is a certain small percentage of disgruntled democrats who were just voting blindly for the name kennedy. and with not a lot of understanding of who this guy is. now we understand who he is and

now to your point on our cell phones that clip is going all over the place and now democrats understand that he is actually not an alternative, right? so you do have a percentage of disgruntled democrats who we see in polling who say they'll vote for someone other than joe biden and there was a fear that could this movement pick up? i think the more he talks and the more we see him and the crazy anti-semitic nutty stuff that he says, the more democrats understand this is not someone who they can actually do a protest vote with against president biden. >> cornell, i think what insulates joe biden from a kennedy on the ballot is that all the other kennedys, everyone else with that beloved last name that there is still a whole lot of warmth and reverence for is attacking him and rebuking him and a whole lot of people in his circle are attacking him and rebuking him, not just people with the last name kennedy but

the entire sort of infrastructure around what is beloved about the kennedy family is anti-rfk jr., so maybe that helps too. >> yes. yes. [ laughter ] >> what happened on capitol hill today when lawmakers held a hearing about ufos. it was wild as ufo hearings tend to be and we'll play some of it for you after a quick break. don't go anywhere. (vo) if you have graves' disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more.

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i became a whistle-blower through a ppd 19 urgent concern filing in may 2022 with the intelligence community inspector general. following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the u.s. government is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regard to uaps. i was informed during the course of my official duties of a multidecade crash rereevell and reverse engineering program. to which i was denied access to those additional read-ons when i requested it. >> riveting testimony came from retired major david grusch, now whistle-blower as he explains there making explosive and highly anticipated before a

subcommittee hearing effectively saying that americans have been kept in the dark about the existence of unidentified aerial phenomenon, otherwise known as uaps or ufos. grusch was one of three to testify today as they've pushed for more information into the mysterious aircraft and objects as a matter of national security. late today, the defense department released a statement saying in part it has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently. joining our coverage congressman robert garcia, the ranking democrat in the house oversight committee's national security subcommittee which oversaw and led today's hearing. thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us. >> yeah, happy to be here, thank you. >> it is a remarkable thing when democrats and republicans agree these days in washington and on

this question of declassifying or having access to more information, democrats and republicans agree, what are you looking for? what are you seeking? >> well, look, i think first it's important that we had an actual very serious and substantive hearing today, democrats and republicans came together in a very bipartisan way to get answers, certainly uaps are in our sky, we know this to be true. it's been documented, you know, our own government has obviously documented this as well and we had three credible witnesses all with military history talk about these uaps. what's also true there is a lot of information that has been classiied and so separate of the hearing i think we're seeking to want to ensure that we get this classified information, that we're able to review some of the testimony that the witnesses have given in a classified setting. i mean, the public certainly deserve transparency and certainly there are national security implications here. but it's important that we do this moving forward in a very bipartisan way that's taking this issue very seriously. >> congressman, did you make any progress or have you made any

progress with the defense department or the biden administration about the first piece, about a classified briefing from members of your committee? >> well, i think today was the first time where we came together as a committee to ask for this united. i think both democrats and republicans want this classified information, in fact, are demanding to have more information unclassified to us and i think we have an opportunity here to also build trust with the american people on a very complex issue that does impact our national security so this is the subcommittee of the oversight committee on national security, and we need that information declassified so i'm hopeful and optimistic we're going to get there. >> what do you think is being hidden from you and your committee and the public? >> well, look, i think obviously we don't know what these uaps are. we do know they've been seen on multiple occasions. we know there are 30 pilots that are part of a group that have had encounters with uaps and know that our witnesses have

given information already to the department of defense, to other agencies in a classified setting. we obviously have a whistle-blower as well today that testified that talked about this classified information so i think we want to assure the public we are doing our full job at transparency, making sure we're getting questions answered so the truth is we don't know what they are. what we do know is pilots are reporting that they are flying in formations or possibly with technology that we are unaware of and that we don't have or at least not public to the american people and so we need to continue to search for answers. everything should be on the table here. we shouldn't draw conclusions either but continue to explore. >> do you worry in this moment where conspiracy theories and things that are unfounded capture the imagination of so many americans that keeping this secret sort of fuels that? i mean, is this also a moment to declassify and reveal and shine the light of transparency on as many government secrets as possible in your view?

>> i think that's absolutely right. i mean, right now we are in an era of mistrust, of distrust in our institutions, in a lot of information that is being twisted, the facts aren't being supported. this is a moment and opportunity on this topic especially where we can shine a opportunity on this topic especially, where i think we can shine a light, be transparent, have disclosure, and quite frankly, congress, as members of the oversight committee, and really focused on national security, we have a right to this classified information. i think that's what we're going to work with with d.o.d. and other agencies to ensure we're doing our job on behalf of the american public. when you have commercial pilots, aviators flying commercial aircraft seeing uaps and feel unsafe to report, feel there are stigmas around those -- numerous pilots are doing this and essentially asking for help, i think we have a responsibility to get to the bottom of what's happening. >> congressman, robert garcia,

we'll continue to call on you as this moves forward. we'll give molly and donny the final word on ufos after a short break. don't go anywhere. t go anywhere. family is just very important. she's my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together.

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you know -- >> that's what i said. when i was young, or you watch "e.t." and think of the people coming here, now with the planet melting it's like, take me! pick me up. >> think of that "twilight zone", how to serve man. it's a cook book! i think you made the important point of what's going on with conspiracy theories now. we have to tread lightly. there's so much cookieness and coop dom in the world, it's probably balloons but we have to tread lightly. >>ing as for careful consideration. what can we demystify things and what can't we share with congress? >> maybe rudy giuliani is an alien. who knows? >> too much there. in this moment we find ourselves in, it is news. you've got democrats and republicans working together. but it probably shouldn't be.

>> the fact this anything happens in congress at all is a miracle. >> is amazing, right? >> we're going to likely be looking down a government shutdown in the fall. it's crazy. they got a debt ceiling done. they have done things together, and when it happens we should celebrate it even if it involves aliens. >> even if it's just them doing their jobs, which we pay for. quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ - the company goes to the firstborn, audrey. the model train set is entrusted to todd.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are so grateful. "the beat" with katie feng in for ari starts now. >> thanks. good to see you as always. welcome to "the beat." i'm katie feng in for ari melber. tonight as an await a special third indictment for president trump, we're seeing real accountability for election lies. once again it's coming in the form of a defamation suit, the kind of lawsuit that brought fox news to its knee in the form of