mornings at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. but mao "the reidout" with joy reid, it's up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> we've only followed where the information has taken us, but rising to the level of impeachment inquiry. >> house republicans revenge and retribution agenda kicks into high gear with a new obsession to impeach president biden for an offense to be named later. plus, rudy giuliani admits to lying about two georgia election workers, lies that turned their worlds upside down and put their lies at risk. the lawyer for those women joins me tonight. and pro-choice supporters get enough signatures to put reproductive rights on the ballot in ohio. polls show it has the backing of a clear majority of voters.

but if republicans get their way, that may not matter. and we begin tonight with the two portrayals of donald trump. the first is the image he wants everyone to believe is the real trump, everyonified by his rather embarrassing digital trading card venture where he presented himself as a cowboy, a rock star and an actual superhero. it's the one his most ardent base ardently believes in. it's the one that earned him a literal cult. but the second image is revealing itself more and more as trump responds to his multiple indictments. it's the one where he is not the great and powerful whiz who lives in oz, but rather the man hiding behind the curtain, who is terrified and desperate. richard pryor killed that roles by the way, best movie ever. the point is trump has always been able to use his bravado and showmanship to avoid repercussions for his actions.

but now at age 77, he is facing a situation that he cannot talk his way out of, with no powerful dad to bail him out and no roy cohn to fix his legal peril. and according to people who know him, donald trump is afraid he could actually wind up in prison linebacker his oath keepers and proud boy supporters. perhaps orange jumpsuit trump may be a more apt addition to the next series of his digital trading cards. with nowhere else to turn, he is now relying on his loyal followers in congress, like speaker mike kevin to somehow save him. >> congress, if you will, please investigate the political witch hunts against me currently being brought by the corrupt doj and fbi who are totally out of control. >> under mccarthy's leadership, they may try, but it will do trump no good as he faces jack smith's multiple investigations. plus those current and possible prosecutions in new york and

georgia. the trouble for trump is that all of his wild claims about a stolen election, which never turned up a single shred of evidence continue to fall apart to this day. the latest example comes from the ringleader of his post election so-called elise strike team of lawyer, rudy giuliani. in a court filing yesterday, giuliani conceded to making false statements about two georgia election workers he publicized to the world as having committed election fraud, reportedly calling them at one point ballot-stuffing criminal conspirators. ruby freeman and her daughter shea moss were anything but that. they were simply two dedicated election workers performing their civic duty in the 2020 presidential election. but because of giuliani and trump, they faced harassment and violent threats. ms. freeman had to temporarily abandon her own home for her own safety. and now they are suing rudy giuliani rudy giuliani over his baseless claims about them.

perhaps rudy's actions should not be that surprising given that he admitted under oath in 2021 that he made no effort to verify some of the claims he was hawking. i should also note in the same court filing yesterday, giuliani doesn't concede to any damages based on his false claims, and his lawyer seemed to suggest that it was merely a legal maneuver to get beyond the fact-gathering stage and into the legal fight. it doesn't matter to trump or giuliani that using them as pawns would unleash maga cult members on them. >> i start my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom, because she might yell my name out over the grocery aisle or something. >> there is nowhere i feel safe,

nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. >> it's one of the worst things that we heard during the january 6th hearings, and at no point have we seen any remorse or contrition from trump for putting these women and countless others through hell, simply because he could not accept that he lost an election. he was perfectly okay with portraying people as someone that they're not, putting them at risk, and making them live in fear. well, now he's the one living in fear. i'm joined now by von dubose, the attorney currently representing ruby freeman and shaye moss. representing them now, were you in touch with them at the time they were giving testimony at the january 6th committee?

>> absolutely. i'm sorry. absolutely. yes, absolutely. i was representing then. i've been with ruby and shaye from the beginning from the time the fbi informed ruby that she needs to leaf her residence, that it was no longer safe there. so i was there working with her to secure her, to get her in a safe place. and then once we accomplished that, we moved on to the next phase of trying to address what's happened to them. >> and watching that testimony, honestly, i was tearful watching it, because these are just the exact kind of people we want in our country, people who do their civic duty, who work in repeated elections trying to make sure that their community can vote. they're the familiar ladies. miss freeman reminds me of the ladies where i would always vote in new york and they know you every week. they say hey, there you are again, honey. they call you baby and make sure you can vote. seeing them sort of broken down

the way they were and how hurt they were, how are they doing now? >> it's heartbreaking. to see that, right. because of the familiarity you just mentioned with the type of people they are, the type of people you see just going about their business, doing their job, not asking for anything extra. they're just good atlanta folks who have been serving this community for a long time. as to how they're doing right now, they are, you know some days are better than others. they still are afraid to walk out into public. they're still concerned about hearing their name called in public. they're still looking over their shoulders. so they're doing the best they can. they're continuing to fight. you know, the great thing about ruby and shaye is when faced with what they had to deal with in this situation, they could have cowered and gone away, they chose to fight.

that's what they're doing right now. >> they are suing giuliani. here are some of the things he was saying at the time. >> of ruby freeman and shaye free man moss and one other gentleman surreptitiously passing around usb ports as if they're heroin or a vial of cocaine. it's obvious to a criminal prosecutor they're involved in surreptitious illegal activity. >> and that was not true, obviously. but talking about them passing usb ports as if they're vials of heroin and cocaine, trying to make them sound like drug dealers. at one point, kanye west's publicist was pressuring miss freeman if you admit to crimes you can avoid charges, and pretending they were the law. it is shocking to me how much pressure was put on these women for having done nothing but work in an election. they are suing, obviously, rudy giuliani. is there anyone else that they've considered naming in

this lawsuit? >> there are some john does in this lawsuit as the case progresses, we'll certainly consider whether or not we need to fill in any of those john does with actual parties. so as of right now, giuliani is the only defendant, but we're certainly monitoring as we progress whether or not we need to institute in any individuals, companies, what have you for these john doe defendants that we made. >> and are you able to tell us whether or not fani willis' office has been in touch with these two ladies about her investigation? because obviously all of the events that took place in georgia that donald trump purposed and his team, they were about election fraud, real election fraud. in other words trying to steal the election in georgia. have they been contacted? >> they've cooperated throughout, from the time they started until law enforcement started to get involved and

investigate everything that was alleged to have occurred at the state farm arena. and you saw them cooperate with the january 6th committee. and they intend on cooperating with whatever law enforcement agency wants to talk with them, they're going to do that continually, and they're committed to doing that. >> von dubose, please let miss freeman and miss moss they have a home here on "the reidout" any time. and we're big fans of civic duty and people who participate in elections. i'm a voting enthusiast. they're heroines to me. tell them they got a lot of love here. thank you so much, mr. dubose, for coming on. >> i absolutely will. thank you. >> thank you so much. lest let me turn to david cay johnston. you heard that, david. the fact that donald trump was willing to put two innocent women at risk of being harmed, they had to move out of their home for their own safety. he knows what his supporters are like. he tells them to be violent.

he encourages them to be violent. what do you make of the fact that he had no problem with it? he or giuliani with putting their lives at risk. that's just him, right? >> yeah, donald, who i have known for more than 35 years now, does not have a conscience. he only thinks of others in terms of them as objects, not human beings. so this kind of behavior by donald is very understandable. it's not appropriate. but absolutely understandable. it's the way he has acted his entire life. >> and, yet, john kelly, his former chief of staff was no prince himself. he did insult an african american member of congress. he was all in with trump at the time. but now he is telling tales. he says trump is scared s-less about going to prison. that's his take. what is yours? >> oh, i absolutely agree. and you can see in the emails and the blasts he does via truth social how his anxiety is

growing. he is not sleeping well at night. if donald really believed that he is completely innocent and has done nothing wrong and that the presidential records act exonerates him on everything, he should be the one pressing for a speedy trial. hey, let me get in front of a jury, and they're going to obviously acquit me. and he knows he is not going to be acquitted. the best he can hope for is a hung jury. >> let's talk about this. so mark meadows, here is mark meadows, who is one of the people who is considered a potential star witness if he was to testify for the prosecution. this is what he said recently when he was asked about the jack smith investigation. >> yeah, i don't talk about anything. >> and he said that this morning. but here is chris christie, a former federal prosecutor, a former governor of new jersey, of bridgegate fame. this is what chris christie had to say about mr. meadows.

>> what i will say in watching that video is that looks to me like somebody who is cooperating with the federal government. the witnesses told as they leave you don't have to answer any questions or talk about it, but you are free to do so if you like. the only time you can't do it is when the government has a cooperation agreement with you and they say no talking about this. the only time we want to hear you talking is on the witness stand. and that to me, mark meadows looks to me like a federal witness under cooperation agreement. and my guess is that's what we're going find out he is. >> if trump really scared s-less, is it to understand that mark meadows to save himself will probably turn on him? >> there is probably no one who is a bigger threat to donald in all of this than his chief of staff, mark meadows. chris christie's analysis is exactly right. normally after you testify in a grand jury, i've done, that you're free to go talk, unless you reached some kind of agreement and turned state's

evidence. i think it's reasonable to assume at this point that mark meadows in all hike lead has turned state's evidence, and that is very bad for donald trump if there is a second federal indictment over his failed effort to overthrow our government. >> and the thing is donald trump, we talked about this over the years. he demands one-way loyalty. you have to be loyal to him. he is not loyal to you. in this case, it does seem that is crack. people who seem super loy, people like giuliani and others, they're going to face a real test here, are you willing to go prison for this guy as multiple oath keepers and proud boys have done. increasingly, it look likes the answer that, particularly after michael cohen, the answer is no. >> right. one of the things we don't know is how many people will still have exposure for crimes they've committed. remember, we've had two attorney generals in the past go to prison. being in high office does not

protect you per se because the system is well, far from perfect, does in many ways what it's supposed to do. so i'm sure there are people out there worried that they will be the target of a grand jury if they're not already and that many of those people are not going to go to prison, particularly after they've seen the sentences handed out against the clown show insurrection on january 6th. >> and we will be watching that, because that conclusion could come at any day now. david cay johnston, thank you very much. up next on the "the reidout," house republicans succumb to impeachment strategy, and inning that president biden be impeached for something, they're not sure what. but whatever he did is really really terrible, and he must be punished. the "the reidout" continues after this. " continues after this in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight.

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the same week donald trump is anticipating a third indictment, house speaker kevin mccarthy is conveniently saying he is moving toward an impeachment inquiry into president biden over the financial dealings of his son, hunter. i know that sounds dumb. republicans have no actual evidence president biden has actually done anything wrong or that he and his son are even in business together or that hunter biden has committed offenses besides the actual tax charges he is facing, which is like

hello, donald trump, and his attempt to get a gun permit without disclosing which you think would make him a hero to the gun fetish crowd. but that doesn't matter to kevin mccarthy, who would do anything, crawl on his belly, do a head stand at mar-a-lago while marjorie taylor greene throws peaing at him, whatever it takes. and to actually run the republican caucus. at this point greene and lauren boebert, perhaps the two most embarrassing members of the house have actually had a screaming match on the house floor over who gets to file articles of impeachment against biden fist. and then george santos tweeted impeach biden now, because, yeah. but what this really tells us is trump's de facto legal team, aka the house republican caucus is running out of ways to defend him. they've already tried gaslighting the country into thinking he has never done anything illegal and january 6th wasn't really an insurrection. they blamed trump's self-imposed legal troubles on the weapons inspection of the doj, and now

they're moving on the to plan c. since there is no way to defend trump's actions based on facts, the only salvation here is to muddy the waters. if everybody does it, trump can't be that bad, right? basically what they did to hillary clinton in 2016. make both seem like they're equally corrupt, therefore supporting the one who actually committed crimes. joining me now eric swallow, members of the judiciary, intelligence and homeland security committees. the idea is if you make biden seem as bad as trump, people can happily vote for trump. >> they're completely bankrupt of any ideas. so yes, they're moving around between chiding people over their pronouns, showing nonconsensual nudes of hunter biden. trying to figure out who they want to impeach. kevorkian kev is running the law firm. they have one client, donald trump. he is not in charge. the most responsibility mccarthy has ever been given is to sort the starbursts for donald trump. that's what he's done. he bringings about it.

>> the thing that is so wild, we talked about it this morning, they have a -- >> five-seat majority. >> she did. but he ain't nancy pelosi. nancy pelosi is a boss. nancy pelosi knows what she is doing. >> that's right. >> this is a different guy. and his majority now depends on how new york gets redistricted, rights, which is going to change, and how that alabama lawsuit plays out, because he is calling alabama and saying hey, don't let me lose my majority. he knows he can't necessarily hold it. he is not that confident. but telling people to vote on impeachment for nothing for hunter biden being related to you, right, that puts his more vulnerable members who won in districts that biden won in jeopardy. you're a politician. isn't he jeopardizing his own majority? >> they're a chaos caucus now. and he is asking them to vote for more chaos. and it gives us a nice frame if we take it and do it to say you know what? we're the competence caucus. look at philadelphia, i-95 collapsed. everyone said it was going to take a year to get done. two weeks we got that done.

so you guys can focus on the chaos. we'll deliver competence. fing we keep doing, that i think competence wins. >> it is a good point you make. it's working on one level there is a poll that shows 43% of people shows that hunter biden did something illegal. if he didn't pay his taxes. donald trump is only two points higher, 45%. same poll said joe biden did something illegal when it comes to his son's business dealings because it's muddy. on the one hand, it works because it does muddy everyone up, right? democrats concerned that the mess is actually going to eventually hurt biden too? >> if we play on our side of the field, it's going hurt biden. that's why i want us to be on offense as much as possible. i call it the 3-d approach. every hearing we discredit them. we defend where necessary, but we don't have to defend everything, because then you can't tell the difference between both sides. and third, always, always, always pivot to what we will deliver. so today we had mayorkas,

homeland started discrediting jordan. it's really rich when you haven't been here or filed a subpoena in 500 days. pivot to what we would deliver. and the majority comprehensive immigration reform. i think that formula works for the biden administration if we do it rights. >> we have to come back to the really offensive question of mayorkas, almost making him sound like a drug dealer that was really offensive. i want to play an ad that we were going to debut last week, but there so many other things happening we didn't play it. let me play this ad, because it does make the point that republicans really are fixated on stuff nobody cares about. i don't think anyone other the three million some odd people who watch fox news, it's a good number, but there are 227 million adults. they don't even know who hunter biden. >> that's right. >> here is an ad i guess you're behind. let's look. >> sure. >> maga republicans in congress and across the country are so obsessed with transgender americans that they're proposing

laws that would effectively create on-demand gender inspections of children. it sounds crazy, right? but on demand gender checks will be the law of the land if we don't stop it. they're your kids. you want them safe, especially at school. >> it is mind blowing to me. i think we did the numbers. there are 77,000 transathletes in high schools in the whole country. of 327 people. i can't imagine how many people are worrying can i get my gym teacher to take the pants down of the kids and check their genitals. it's crazy to me that that's what they're doing. but that's what it is. >> it's not what parents are worried about. they're worried about their kids being safe and gun violence. but i finally decided on this issue, republicans, maga republicans are not interested in the merits. so let's impose a creep cost. if the logical extension of what

you want to do with trans kids is to do an on-demand gender check, we're going to call you a creep, and you should be called a creep and have to defend it. that goes to playing on their side of the field. this is their obsession. it's not ours. >> you told us the last time you were on about your parents being republicans. my father was very reaganite. he was very much a reagan guy. i do not remember in the ideology the idea -- they seem to want to crawl into the beds of every woman in america to make sure you getting pregnant and having babies for the country. they want to crawl into the gym locker, the gyms of every elementary school kid and inspect them to make sure they're a boy or girl. >> they want to go in library. >> and pull books out and look at what you're reading. this is the opposite of a freedom agenda. what happened to republicans being like sort of libertarian about leaving you alone? >> and it gives us a chance to enfreedom, right? the freedom to vote, the freedom for your kids to be safe, the freedom to read, the freedom to

make your own health care systems. we should own freedom. and biden in his launch video, he really keyed in on that. >> freedom and democracy. we actually want the freedom to vote. we don't want you telling our kids what to read or to define their gender for them. we're the mom and dad. we can do that. i do want to give you an opportunity, because something did happen that was very disturbing today. mitch mcconnell, he seems to sort of freeze while he is about to speak. we don't know for sure what happened. but obviously, it's a medical issue. and i just want the give you a chance to comment have. you heard anything than on the hill? what's going on there? >> i talked to reporters who were watching it live. it was hard for them to watch. it was hard for me to watch. look, politics aside, you don't want to see this happen to anyone. i hope he gets better. and i wish for him a decent response from everyone that we did not get from maga when paul pelosi was attacked or any time joe biden, you know, has a stumble. so this is the time to be decent and put the politics aside.

>> it is a difference between the parties. >> that's right. >> no one i know wishes him other than well. >> that's right. >> and we would hope that one day republicans will do the same for democrats. >> that's right. >> because in the end of the day, we're all human beings. >> exactly. >> and you're a good one. thank you, congressman. congressman eric swalwell. up next, abortion access is officially on the ballot in ohio. but republicans are doing everything they can to block it. more on that, when we come back. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex.

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donald trump's looming indictment is currently the din and the noise that we're all kind of swimming in the news business right now. but if you want to see what the average american is really focused on, look no further than ohio, where people have now overwhelmingly approved getting abortion rights on the ballot in november. the campaign backing a constitutional amendment to protect abortion rights submitted enough valid signatures on tuesday to qualify for the november 7 ballot. and it's pretty clear why they were successful. when you look at a recent suffolk university poll, the majority of ohioans support the amendment, 58% patchy fog 32%. and 68% of independents overwhelmingly support the amendment. now this is great news for ohio women, it's far from a done deal. republican lawmakers have set a special election for august 8th

when voters will get to decide if they want to raise the threshold for statewide citizen-led initiatives like this one from a simple majority plus one to a 60% requirement. just in case you missed what i said a little earlier, please notice that support for abortion is just shy of that 60% threshold. it's not a coincidence that republicans want to put citizen-led initiatives just out of reach for the people they rule over. but it is a reminder of how a minority party tries to subjugate the will of the majority. the people of ohio were not fooled by the republicans' tactics. 57% oppose raising the threshold. i'm joined now by kelly copeland, board member of ohioans united for reproductive rights. we know there is a clear majority to keep the threshold at 50. however, august 8 is in the middle of the summer when a lot of people are traveling, not paying attention to elections.

are you confident there will be enough turnout to ensure that the 50% threshold remains in effect? >> absolutely. you did the math, and there is no coincidence here. the extremist politicians in columbus, they looked a the same numbers you just mentioned and they said hey, we don't think we can win. so we're going to play a dirty trick. and we're going to try to hold a special election when people are on vacation, when we think they're not paying attention. so we can take away their right both to have a say directly in what's on our constitution in the future, but also to have a say in our reproductive rights and our health care decisions. so that's why ohio is on the front lines in the fight for abortion rights in america. and frankly, that's why i'm so proud of the work that this coalition, the ohioans united for reproductive rights has done. i mean, the patient advocates, the rights leaders, the abortion

leaders and doctors from all kinds of specialties and everyday citizens really came together over these last three months to get over 700,000 signatures to protect our freedom so that people don't have to go back to where we were last year where we had ohioans who were basically medical refugees, having to seek care outside of ohio. and -- i just couldn't be prouder of our coalition. and, you know, i just have to put out a call that i know people all over the country are asking how they can get involved and join us at abortion access ohio.com. we can put you to work. text banks, phone banks, we're doing all of the things. and even a $5 donation helps, because as you mentioned, our opponents are up to it. they're literally launching millions of dollars of ads against us, and we have two elections to win, august 8th and november 7th. >> and the thing is, you just cited the name of your organization that says what it

is. ohio for abortion rights. and i will note that abortion is still legal at 22 weeks, because the six-week ban is -- >> yes. >> but i want to play ads from both of the sides. the other side, they sort of mush their name up in something that isn't what it says it is. they're calling themselves protect women of ohio. that's the anti-abortion group. so they're sort of changing the name. and they're trying to launder together abortion rights and the transgender issue and the issue of people who need trans care and put them together. let me play their ad, a little of it. >> these special interest groups want to allow minors to get sex changes without parental consent. urge says parental consent laws are unethical and need to be abolished. the aclu? they're against informing parents about their kids transitioning at school. to save parental rights in ohio, vote yes on issue 1 on august 8th. >> and i want to note for our audience, this group called

protect women ohio, this is a $5 million campaign ad that they're rung. and they are a coalition of organizations including ohio right to life, the center for christian virtue, and the right to life action coalition of ohio. and there is nothing in the amendment i want to note that mentions or supersedes ohio's parental consent ad. so what is in the ad isn't true. i need to say that since we played this on our air. what do you make of this sort of obfuscation and disinformation that they're using to try to get people to use the trans issue as a way to give up their own right to abortion? >> it's clear that our opponent nose that they're losing. they've had 50 years to convince people of their extremist anti-abortion agenda. and they failed. and they know if we talk about the issue at hand, what the amendment actually does, they'll lose. so what do you do when you're unscrupulous and you're losing an argument? you change the topic. you create a false boogie man. you do anything to get people

off of the truth. and that's why our opposition, they're spreading this misinformation. but ohioans are smart. they're not going to fall for this. and that's why our campaign is really confident that if we continue to talk about what the amendment does and what it would stop, it would stop what happened for 82 days last year when ohioans had to flee the state, when people were scared to be pregnant in ohio because they couldn't get the care that they needed, when people were scared of what would happen to them and their daughters and their families and their nonbinary and their trans friends. they were scared. it was terrified. i remember seeing those faces. that's what this amendment is about. making sure we don't have to go back to that. it's not about all these things that they're trying to change the topic to. >> and by the way, if you have a trans kid, they're saying that the republicans in the ohio legislature should get to decide what happens with your kid, not

you. parental consent means if you have a trans kid and you want to decide what their medical care is going to be, you should get to decide that. they're saying not only for women, but for trans children, they get to decide what happens to your kid, just like they get to decide what you can read, what you can do. this total control over other people's bodies is wild. kelly copeland, thank you so much for being here. best of luck. we'll be following what happens with the august 8th vote as well as the one in november. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, help me out here. when you're forced to lay off a third of your presidential campaign staff, is that a good thing or a bad thing? it's a bad thing, right? i think it's a bad thing. we'll be right back. ight back. o? i know we have them. oh my god, here it is. when i found that immigration record on ancestry®, it was amazing. everything was there. the u.s. was in dire need of nurses during world war ii. tía amalia as a nurse in el salvador decided to answer that call. it's a lot of excitement finding something new. i feel like a time traveler.

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- the coverage has been excellent. - you know, it gives us exactly what we want. - you should go with consumer cellular! - [announcer] switch today. call or go online. the state of florida is in hot water, literally. on monday, water temperatures in the bays between the mainland and the florida keys registered at a whopping 101.1 degrees fahrenheit, which was on the heels of a 102-degree temperature on sunday. just for perspective, the average hot tub temperature is 100 to 102 degrees. the federal agency that tracks this stuff, the national oceanic and atmospheric administration has warned those temperatures could mean trouble as we head into hurricane season with the warm waters set to bring supercharged hurricanes. meanwhile, farmers insurance is leaving the state, forcing thousands of people to change their insurance provider. it's the fourth company to pull

out of the market based on risk exposure in the hurricane-prone state. florida's also facing a different type of heat. it is now america's inflation hot spot. with rates skyrocketing, despite inflation rapidly cooling in the 49 other states. its agricultural and construction industry are facing labor shortages too due to the inhumane immigration law governor ron desantis pushed that cracks down on the very migrant lane they're helps his state prosper. but there is a trend with republican leaders. they tend to go awol when their states are suffering. and desantis is the latest example. he is not focused on these disasters. he is focused on the disaster of his presidential campaign. his paid campaign staff has been slashed by more than a third. that includes a staffer who over the weekend promoted an online video that superimposed nazi imagery over desantis' face. good times. joining me now is juanita tolliver, msnbc political analyst and host of the what a

day podcast. what day indeed, anita. i got to say, desantis has got to be the unluckiest s.o.b. in the world. how unlucky do you have to be to fire the guy for promoting a nazi imagery, for also having to let the guy resign in 2018 michael ortel who you made your secretary of state, the following year he resigned after a picture of him resigned in black face reading a picture they'd that said katrina victim. he appeared to be wearing black women in particular because he wore fake breasts, a scarf wrapped around his head and large gold earrings which are probably illegal in florida now. in september 2022 he appointed another guy to the county commission who had to resign after an alleged photo of him wearing a ku klux klan uniform. gaston county commissioner named jeff moore. near moore nor desantis

confirmed that is moore in fact in the picture wearing the ku klux klan outfit. but how unlucky is he? what's going on with desantis? >> it tracks, right? when someone promotes a hateful agenda full of attacks on black and brown people, full of attacks on lgbtq people, women and immigrants, it's no surprise that people who support white nationalism and white supremacy flock to him. this is at multiple levels of government. when we think about that staffer, this wasn't some lonely staffer. this was someone who literally provided desantis his script when going on the campaign trail. he was speech writer. to know that desantis only hires the best and brightest, right, joy? this is the type of people who he surrounds himself with, who feel comfortable with him. and only when they go public with their ridiculousness, whether it's a ku klux klan outfit, black face or this nazi promotional video, that's when he has to let them go. but otherwise they were fine. >> andrew gillum, he famously said, i'm not saying ron

desantis is a racist, i'm just saying the racists seem to think he is a rayes. let my play in his own words, this is ron desantis who played baseball in college talking about baseball versus basketball. . >> i think that there is kind of a place for everybody on a baseball team if you're willing to work to hone your skills. i kind of thought it was always a democratic game, a very american craddock game. i can view basketball as, like, these guys are just freaks of nature. >> oh. it's no wonder. it's no wonder that he makes stupid statements around slavery being beneficial for enslaved people when that's what he thinks about basketball players, which we know is code for black people. it just oozes through his pores, the racism and the white supremacy. like how, how, how has this man been able to advance so far? and i have another question. what will it take to stop him? thankfully he's giving it his

own way in that regard. >> he's stopping himself. we found out, a first thought this insane homoerotic but also homophobic ad, and people were like i wonder what pack made out, it turned out it was his campaign. they need that for him. and now what you are seeing is this exodus. running for governor, running for president we are governor, you're supposed to use the state of your state as sort of, this is a tried and true, this is what i can do. not only all the problems i mentioned earlier, you have conventions now leaving. the game of thrones convention is like peace out, we're not doing in florida. >> well. >> the national association of black society of engineers was like nope, we're not gonna do our convention, we're gonna go to atlanta. now the alpha i alpha has a piece, we're not coming to orlando. we are coming because of him. how does he run for president when he's running conventions out of his state? >> and also the naacp released a full travel warning for black

and brown people because the state is so harmful. desantis decided in his state legislative session that that was the muscle he wanted to flex. he was much higher as possible was his motive here. and i think that's what's coming through. that's what's going to cost him because when you look at the poll numbers, even gop prime numbers are saying, we don't want you to do in the rest of the country what you're doing in florida. that shines at national and state levels. >> he's losing college educated educated white voters. the six-week abortion ban, running of immigrants and your state, then you have farmers rioting, latino workers, please don't leave. they're leaving, man. they're actually leaving. >> exactly. >> at some point is there someone else who becomes the knot trump? because i don't see a strong field here. do you see anyone else who looks like a prospect? >> based on the polls, at this moment, and it feels like it was all a dream that desantis was even within striking distance of trump a few months ago, or the person he's polling

closest to at the state level is senator tim scott. he is surging in the polls, double digits in iowa and new hampshire, and i feel like that's the person that the gop voter base is going to turn to next. >> we will see, because sean trendy who was there, republican pollster who said there's too much racial anger in that party to elect a black candidate. so i don't know. i believe it when i see. it juanita tolliver, flank you. when we come back next, some sad and maybe puzzling news for the pop world. the pop world.

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stories out of the music industry. first of all, the tale of jason jason all dean, defending his long try that in a small town, saying it has nothing to do with race, despite it being filmed in a famous lynching, and the lyrics of the song itself, it sounds like a warning, black southerners would have gotten from good old boys in like, 1953, let alone 2023. it's an interesting twist. the company that produced the music video has edited video, cutting out six seconds including the six seconds about black lives matter protests. if it wasn't about black lives matter, why was it in there in the first place? and if it was defensible, why cut it out? here's questions that -- aston's latest post on the

readout blog, do check it out. remember this? irish pop singer and social activist sinéad o'connor has died. she scored one of the single most iconic and controversial television moments in history when she ripped up a photo of pope john paul the second during a live performance of the bob marley song wore on saturday night live in 1992. it was a protest against the catholic church, which was accused of covering up decades of sexual abuse of children. o'connor, who's shaved head and multi octave range, maybe made the prince written ballot nothing compares to you a huge hit in 1990, was banned from nbc after what she did on arsenal. she converted to iselin in 2018, though she wrote in the washington post years earlier, people assumed i didn't believe in god. that's not the case at all. i'm catholic by birth and culture and would be the first in the church door in the vatican offered sincere

reconciliation. chicago connor was just 56 years old. her death comes one year after a 17-year-old son, shane, died of suicide. she is survived by three children, her family, and her friends. that is tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts right now. right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm jen psaki in for chris hayes. as we await the new steps from special counsel jack smith's investigation into january six, one of the big lingering questions, which we might learn more about if there is an indictment tomorrow or in the coming days, is, what exactly did trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows, tell them? here's what we know. we know he met with a grand jury, but we don't know what he said. we don't know if he told them. he has also been pretty quiet lately, almost suspiciously quiet. and that has been raising some questions among trump's inner circle that meadows may have