strength to do that 15 years ago, i could have picked a healthier way to change my life. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. yor wa >> good morning and welcome to morning joe weekend, i hope you're having a good saturday let's dive into the week stories. years after rudy giuliani accused georgia election workers ruby freeman and shaye moss of fraud during the 2020 election, he is conceding his statements were false. this came in a court filing, part of a defamation lawsuit freeman and moss filed against giuliani in 2021 the case accuses giuliani, at the time you will remember was representing former president trump of publicizing a heavily edited video he falsely alleged,

show the two workers somehow changing votes. >> taped earlier in the day of ruby freeman and shaye moss, and one of the gentleman passing around u.s. -- vials of heroin or cocaine. they are walking around georgia, lying. they should have been questioned already. their places of work, homes should have been searched. >> one of the videos we search, mr. giuliani accuses you and your mother of passing a usb drive to each other. what was your mom actually handing you on that video? >> a ginger mint. >> we had at least 18, 000, that's on tape, we had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters having to do with ruby freeman. she's a vote scammer, a

professional vote scammer and hustler. >> she was none of those things, of course. the two page declaration giuliani now acknowledges he had in fact made the statements about miss freeman and moss that led to the filing of the student that the remarks quote, carry meaning that is defamatory, per se. political adviser for giuliani says that means quote giuliani did not acknowledge that the statements were false but did not contest it in order to move on with the portion of the case that would permit a motion to dismiss. giuliani says he still believes his comments are protected by the first amendment, and refuses to accept a cause harm to the women. here is what freeman and moss told the january six committee last year about the harm they say they did endure. >> there is nowhere i feel safe. nowhere! do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states target you?

the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. but he targeted me, lady ruby. a small business owner, a mother, a proud american citizen. who has stood up to help fulton county lead an election in the middle of a pandemic. >> a lot of threats. wishing death upon me. telling me that, you know, i will be in jail with my mother and saying things like, be glad it is 2020 and not 1920. >> we're a lot of these threats and vile comments racist in nature? >> a lot of them were racist, a lot of them were just hateful. >> attorneys for freeman and moss released a statement about the development saying quote giuliani stipulation concedes what we have always known to be

true, the allegations of election fraud he and former president trump made against them have been false. since day one. let's talk about the legal implications of this. what is all the legal language that we learn from giuliani? >> there are steps you lading to the underlying facts because in order to get to the motion and the judgment face there needs to be no issues of facts, all the facts are conceded. the only thing for the court to decide is an issue of law. giuliani's defense appears to be not so much that hey what i said about them was true or wasn't true, it's more that it doesn't matter what i said about them whether it's true or not, i had a first amendment right to say it. therefore, there is no defamation, and that is why it appears that he is making this concession in order to put issues of facts aside, decide for the moment and get to the motion for summit judgment. it is a minor kind of hail mary to try to throw the case out

early. that's what summary judgment is, it's a long shot, the odds are if you are moving for summary judgment even as the plane to for the defendant you're probably going to lose and the case will probably move forward to trial. but it is a mechanism by what you get rid of the case that has no issues of facts and only issues of law, but the only issues of law and the judge can decide and everybody can go wrong. >> and eugene, that is a legal aspect of this, let's speak about the morality of this moment, this was reprehensible. this was something that was false, it was untrue, and as i noted in my book and others have chronicled so well, and we heard that emotional testimony from the two workers who were just trying to do the right thing. trying, frankly, do their civic duty, and they felt like their lives or threatened, they were harassed for months and it is in moment like this repeated in other parts of the country have had a chilling effect where i know a lot of officials are worried that they want people to find workers and volunteers

in the next election. >> people who have done it for years, say they love being a poll worker, it gave them purpose around the elections, they are terrified to do so because of these events. when we saw these two women live during this committee hearing, that was one of the most emotional, it was one of the most interesting aspects of the committee and up to that point because a lot of it was talking to officials and talking to republicans who were in these rooms, we're seeing them as they're talking in their testimonies, this was about real people who were impacted by the lives that giuliani and donald trump and others were telling. and i think that was one of the things that as people are watching you see pulling that people are paying attention to those moments just as much as the fact finding mission. it is a reminder of how central to rudy giuliani and his lies during the 2020 -- after the 2020 election and after, how they are important

regarding donald trump's investigations. >> if you go out to meet people on the campaign trail, you talk to them, you look at focus groups, so how would you go about today talking about the america's mayor, rudy giuliani, and this display that we saw this morning which reprieved what he did to these two women. how do we convince people, normal people that rudy giuliani is going to skate on something like this with really no penalty paid, and yet the system isn't rigged, we will tell people the system isn't rigged for the wealthy and well connected. how do we do that? >> the way i look at it, mike, i saw tim miller was on the show and he referred to the fact based community, i still think the show -- that's a good way to describe the show, the fact based community in america. i still look at that ruling yesterday, i heard everything danny said to qualifications

about what giuliani wasn't admitting to, but the truth is that giuliani is not objecting to what these women are saying, and that is a win for the fact based community. that is a win for truth. i mean, i look at it yes, mike, in some level, giuliani may skate on this but democracy, you step all the way back as i know you do, democracy has been under a major stress test over the last eight years that trump has been part of a political system. now it is the accountability phase in the justice, with a criminal justice and the civil cases as well. you know, trump is being held accountable, we make another indictment today, we've had one federal indictment, we've had two new york indictment, giuliani had the back off on

his statements you saw mark meadows yesterday say not wanting to talk about january six at all, questions about what the mark meadows is cooperating with the federal prosecutors to. the people who have lives to the country are having to either back off in some way or they are being held accountable in some way. i think, that we don't get an easy win here, is on the process is all linear, but i think that what is happening in the criminal justice court, what's happening in court and just general that comes to trump's accountability that has been lacking through, you know, prior to this here. >> he has, as you say we are still on indictment watch and a federal jury expected to meet today as we keep our eyes on that. a surprise turn of events, hunter biden pleaded not guilty to federal tax charges yesterday, after a plea deal he struck with the government completely unraveled, a strange day. the unexpected development came during a hearing in federal court in delaware, hunter had

been expected to plead guilty to two charges failure to pay taxes under deal he struck with the government last month. u.s. district judge marial noreika pressed both sides about the term of the agreement, struck with david weiss of delaware who was prosecuting the case. both judge noreika unwise are trump appointees. the judge expressed concern about two separate deals and her purview over them. she said she was worthy agreement on the tax charges did not give her the authority to reject or modify the deal. and that the gun charge agreement could shield hunter biden against further prosecution on his personal at -- the parties will reconvene to hammer out the terms and provide the judge with more information which could be within the next six weeks. hunter biden is expected to reverse his plea if a new agreement with new information eventually satisfies the judge. dana, you were here yesterday saying that this was a strange idea in your estimation, that

it was perhaps hunter biden getting off a little bit easy. what exactly happened yesterday though? this is very confusing to a lot of people? >> most plea hearings go off without a hitch but that doesn't mean that they are not harrowing experiences, because a whole lot could go wrong during a plea -- a hearing, a lot of things that it does is that the defendant has a change of heart or here's the allocution of facts against him and he wants to say wait, that is not exactly how it happened, and so plea agreements can go haywire but most of them go forward without a hitch. this one was set up for failure and we are learning more now that we look at the plea agreement and the pretrial diversion agreement, when you look at the language you can see why both parties were confused. when the defense walked in their, they had read a paragraph of the pretrial diversion agreement that said to the effect, that if for example the united states believes annoying material breach goes on -- because it determination by the district judge. that is a problem, something

both parties should've seen. maybe i'm being blame here but part of the reason is the government of the united states doesn't enter into pretrial diversion's very often. and state court it happens all the time, i've probably handled pretrial diversion for a low level crimes many times. the reality is in federal court there aren't any low level crimes, this is a rare instance of a misdemeanor and a pretrial diversion agreement maybe could be chalked up to the federal government, federal prosecutors just weren't familiar with it. that is probably not the case, but the bottom line is a district judge cannot make that determination, that is not her job. it is always the government's determination, pretrial diversion is their show they run it, they decide if you violated it, all the judge really, that her role is to hit pause in the prosecution until the parties come back and say what is the deal? then the prosecution either says yay or nay, or will prosecute them now or dismiss all the charges. then the other part of that, of

course, is what was the government agreeing to not prosecute him for, and the language says, all the things encompass that is a magic word and compass by the list attached to the pretrial diversion agreement. of course if i was at events i might have read that inside encompass, that is a list of things we are covered, but in court you find out the prosecution had a different view of what was covered, and they theoretically could continue to prosecute him. that is on both sides, they should have hash this out, they should've known what they were entering into when they were walking in there. >> a new bloomberg report on how the u.s. is exporting its gun problem, and fueling shootings around the world. ti our heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us.

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investigative report on how american made guns are making

their ways into foreign countries, thailand's purchasing the largest amount of american firearms, just a decade ago the u.s. prohibited of plan put forward by the gun manufacturers six-hour to sell firearms to thailand. how did we get here? joining us here is the reporters of the bloomberg report, david. david, it's good to have you with us this morning. let's walk through those for our viewers and why and how thailand became such a huge market for american firearms. >> in the u.s. since the expiration of the assault weapons ban in 2004 there's been a big push among gun industries that sell weapons overseas. the u.s. has 400 million guns which is more gazan people, so they need to find other places to build a mark it, thailand which has always had its own gun culture has been a big market for the u.s.. the thing about guns is as we see in ukraine, when countries send weapons overseas they want to make sure who they're going to. they want to make sure they're

not diverted to terrorists, or oppressive governments. and so there has always been control over where they go, and thailand in 2014 because of the coup, it was -- sales attempted cells were blocked. there was civil rights abuses there were people beaten and tortured in prison and so's six hours was pushing for it the state department wished and regulated turned it down, but that didn't stop the sales. >> six hours how to deal i think 150,000 pistols to or handguns to police in thailand the deal was blocked what opened the floodgates since then? how did the restriction that had been there from the state department, how did it get overturned? >> first of all since the obama administration there has been a push to loosen registrations on gun exports and transfer it from the state department which gives a lot of overview for civil rights and human rights abuses to the congress department, which is actually

-- its job is to go support u.s. businesses and support u.s. exports, there have been a movement early as 2012 to loosen it. that was actually going to go through in 2012 but when the shooting in newtown connecticut happened and other children were killed a thought it was bad optics they pushed it off. when the trump administration came and the plan had been already made they picked up and started to loosen some of the weapons. six hours in addition used a lot of lobbying, they hired mike pence's former bundler, a fund-raiser for mike pence they hired a lobbyist in washington. they had done a lock to cozy up to the trump administration, they met president trump months before he ran for office, he toward in new hampshire which is worth six hour just basin also where the first american primary. so it's a good place to make friends on the right. so they had a long lobbying campaign, and there was pressure on the state

department to eventually let the sale go through. >> so, david let's talk volume, it's not just six-hour, it's not just a plan for new hampshire, and it's not just highland. what is the volume of handguns or weapons being shipped overseas? what other countries are grabbing these weapons by the thousands? >> there are hundreds of thousands a year, i think it's 3.7 million semiautomatics that have been sent over the past decade and a half. thailand is one of the big ones, philippines is another area of concern. you know, the dictator there threatened to have his secret police go shoot drug users on the street and feed them to the fish in the bay. and the u.s. blocked gun sales there but then in 2020 a big sale was approved. other places in guatemala where there has been a huge increase in crime, there's a lot of problem with corruption and they have gone a huge increase in guns in the most recent

years. and like i said, there has always been controls on it, the state department, the commerce department, the switch was supposed to give the controls for human rights and also enforcement but we haven't seen that. we've seen an increase in guns, it was supposed to increase 20%, and it has doubled that. we've not seen, we've asked the state department and the biden administration to show whether the enforcement had led to tighter restrictions and they didn't really provide anything. >> so you write about how some of the weapons that they manufactured in germany, because germany couldn't send those weapons to columbia, they mailed the weapons to new hampshire and then from the u.s. they will melt to columbia. is that legal? that seems a little bit sketchy? >> well, six hours first overseas deal was in columbia in 2009, they said they were gonna ship them to the columbian police, the problem is they were just based in

germany, they hadn't started manufacturing much in the u.s., they had to send guns from the u.s., but that was illegal under the law because germany forbid people to send guns to conflict zones, and columbia had a big problem with farc. they sent them to the u.s. said they were for the civilian market and remarketed them -- wonders corrosion here and people in germany found out that the americans were relaying them to columbia, there was an uproar, and that investigation, this eo of six hours was actually put in jail for three weeks during the trial, and they ultimately pleaded guilty to, he and the owner of the company plead guilty to breaking export violations and paid the biggest export fireman german history. so after that the company decided they would go to a place where there wasn't restrictive gun laws and they moved their manufacturing to the united states. >> david what has been the impact on the thai society, the philippines we know what guns have done to our culture, what

have they done there? >> the philippines police and they will say that they had their own gun cultures, guns that come from outside the u.s. but the sales by six hours was some of the biggest sales ever in the history of u.s. exports. they flooded the market, it's really hard for the average tie to get a gun. there are gun control but there's a loophole where they sell something called the gun welfare program where police officers and former police officers can buy them at a cut rate, that's where the guns went, there are hundreds of thousands have found themselves in the black market, crime scenes, the one that we talked about in the story was a horrific killing in a daycare center were 36 people were killed. many of which were by the guns. >> fascinating report out from bloomberg, david, thank you for bringing it to us. coming up the next guest says he sees a quote trumpian future in israel. david remnick joins us with his piece in the new yorker. join

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in your york or piece you write this quote, -- >> and to obtain power he's been -- in his country he is willing to undermine the rule of law. he's willing to make common cause with the most hateful voices in his society and placed them by his side. in the end, he is willing to erode the liberty of his people to ensure his own. the eagerness to put self before country, of course, is a common thread between two

profoundly and principal politicians, benjamin netanyahu and donald trump, right david remnick and the new yorker. david, if you could speak to just how extraordinary this moment in israel's, and why it is and what it means for the future of the country? and i think you lay out while the parallel between the two leaders. >> yes it's 75 year history as a state, israel has faced no shortage of crises. particularly in the conflict with the palestinians, and many wars over the period of time. and yet yesterday i was getting calls from friends in israel telling me this is the worst day in the history of the state. because in their view, and obviously this is the liberal view, one half of society's view, the con -- there is no constitution in israel, the democratic norms are being undermined, tribalism is being deepened.

the balance of power in so far that they exist, are being eroded by this act, and that this act is only the first step in a further erosion of a democratic israel. it's impossible to have a fully democratic israel without resolving, in my view, the palestinian crisis. but all democratic societies have lingering crises to. certainly, we do. but to see society divided to this degree to see hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people out in the street, not just once or twice. but for the last 29 weeks! to see military reverses including air force pilots were considered to be the protectors, the guarantors of israel's existence say that they will refuse to serve is a crisis like we've never seen before in israel. >> david, you write about how

this moment is different from over a decade ago in 2012 when netanyahu campaign on preserving the rule of law. certainly politicians change their tune frequently, when they actually are empowered versus campaigning. but, can you talk about this moment over a decade later? the charges that netanyahu faces and how that is impacting what he does with his power. >> well, all politicians sooner or later lie, i do think netanyahu abuses the privilege, he does it so frequently is almost comical at this point. you remember the speech at the university when he said that he would resolve the palestinian question, that there would be a palestinian state, that was preposterous, it was just a gesture for the americans. in 2012, he came out in from the country give a very important address and said he would reject any notion of

undermining the authorities the supreme court, the court system itself, and now, here he is. you asked about the charges against him. compared to the charges against trump, they are modest but they are charges, real criminal charges of corruption and accepting favors from supporters material favors from political preference. they are real charges, and his political calculation that if this goes through, and it has now, this change in the law, and the way things are done in israel, that it helps him stay in power. he has proved -- he has been the prime minister longer than anyone in the history of the state. he has proved that his first priority is always that, and he will always see to the desire of the straight trump that keeps him in office. right now israel has the most radical, the most extremist the

government in its history, and netanyahu is allowed himself to be, to his advantage, part of their ideological drive. this is just the beginning. >> the piece is in israel, a glimpse of a trumpian future. you can read it online, in the new yorker. david remnick, always great to have you on my friend. thank you. coming up our next guest has a message for evangelical americans, still backing former president trump and his bid for a second term. second wayfair has nice prices, so you can have nice things. um kelly? we have champagne taste... on a hard seltzer budget... wayfair's got just what you need! what... y'all this is nice. salad plates? kelly clarkson? i'm fancy now! i have always wanted statement lighting. get nice things at nice prices at wayfair!

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republican parties in no small part due to his enduring popularity with evangelical christians. while trump has spoken sometimes about the importance of his own fate, more often than not his actions and words do not line up. with the churches teachings. >> jesus christ inspires us to love one another. i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. with hearts full of generosity and grace. why do i have to ask for forgiveness if you're not making -- scripture teaches us the lord is close to the broken hearted. you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knocks a crap out of them. i cherish women. i will be great on women's

health issues. when your star they let you do it. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [bleep]. my first favorite book is the bible. i'm kidding, you can get the baby out of here. 2 corinthians, 3:17, that is the whole ball game. >> you can do anything, grab them by the [bleep], you can do anything, that's what you said. >> historically that is true with stars. not always, but largely true. unfortunately or fortunately. >> joining us now is russell more he's the editor chief of christiane 80 today, leads the public theology project. is the author the new book losing our religion, an altar call for evangelical americans. russell, so good to have you back on the show this morning. you talk about this pre and post-2016 evangelical church, and after it came under the grip of donald trump, how do you explain it, when we talk to evangelicals, they say, look, we were voting for a president not of saint, we understand he

has some ethical and moral and personal failings, but he has given us so much. he gave a three supreme court justices which helped overturn roe v. wade. so how do you explain the move of evangelicals and the willingness to go along for the ride with donald trump? >> well, many evangelicals thought that the clotheslines would lead to greater influence on donald trump and on his administration. i think the evidence shows it has been the other way around. trump and trumpism have changed evangelicalism much more than evangelicalism has influenced trump or the trump movement. and i think that generally that has to do with the way that many people inside and outside the church are wondering if the religion is just a means to an end, the politics to power, or something else. i think the church is too important for that. >> russell, elise jordan here, as a fellow mississippian who was raised southern baptist, i

too have been incredibly disturbed and, just, you know, horrified by some of the developments in the attitude of just letting donald trump and his very unquestioned behavior fly, because it might mean that we get supreme court justices. how did good christian reconcile this? getting politics out of the public sphere when a church has become so more to a political candidate? >> well, i think there are a lot of christians who think that we have to be involved in their right, we have to be involved, we have to be engaged, often they're thinking about issues that really do matter and matter a great deal. i think what we didn't count on, or what many people didn't count on, was the sort of transactions that would have to take place. i mean, we are at a point where

we are talking about sexual abuse, liability, sexual assault, liability, insurrection and attacks on the united states capitol. and then you add to it everything else that seems to be melting down in american life and the american institutional life. i think we need a revival of genuine gospel centered evangelical america. if we don't have that i think that is bad news for everybody, not just for believers like me but for unbelievable to. >> mr. moore, that's a good summation of the state of the country right now that you just articulated. my question to you is given the evangelical movement in this country, how is it that they end up at the end of the day, despite living through everything we've lived through and everything that you just described, how is it, and i can't find an answer within myself, about this, maybe you can help me, how is it that they ended up casting their lot

with a bad man? >> well, that is the question in front of us right now, for the entire country. part of it has to do with the way that we've lost a sense of meaning and politics has attempted to replace that sense of meaning. and so i see a secularization happening, not just in the outside culture of what we were always warning about, but a secularization of the church itself. i mean, just look at the evangelical political event happening in iowa, last week or the week before. it wasn't centered around issues of theology or even of traditional evangelical values. a lot of it was centered around supporting russia over ukraine. i mean, that is a very different, very different emphasis. >> so russell, how do we turn back to the way that it was as you wrote in the book where the church for a lot of his growing

up and in many places still today is a place of community, it's a place of belonging, it's a place of hope, politics you would like to not hear from the ultra but as you say it is coming up more and more. how do you get back to the essence of what the church always has been? >> well, i think we're in the middle of a crisis and i do not think that is necessarily a bad thing, i think that what often happens is that out of crises something new is formed. and i think you have a lot of evangelical christians right now who are feeling homeless, feeling disoriented, many evangelical say man, i don't feel like i belong anymore. i don't know what is happening around me. but, at the same time a lot of these people are finding each other and they're finding a new path. and so, i think we don't need to fight a battle for the soul of evangelicalism, what we need is for evangelicals to reconnect with the gospel and reconnect with the church. and those small scale sorts of

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playing baseball for as long as white people have been playing that baseball. as the sport began to take hold in popularity post civil war, but people were there always. they were organized black teams and they barnstormed. depleting its other black teams. they played against white teams. >> there were blacks who did play with white house on teams, but the team was majority white and we have one or two black players on it. that seemed to be something that was more acceptable to the white paying public if they only have one and two black

players as opposed to a team that might have majority black players and wanted to white players. >> but as we move forward through history, we see that segregation starts to tighten its hold. >> that is a clip from the new documentary titled, the lead, which explores the history of baseball's knee grow leagues using previously unearthed archival footage and never before seen interviews. joining us now, the films director sam pollard. sam, thank you so much for being with us this morning. you have us gripped. we're all baseball fans of history fans and so this checks both of those boxes and it sheds new light on these leaks that produce truly not just some of the greatest back -- black baseball players who ever lived, but the greatest players who ever lived including guys like josh gibson and satchel page. so what led to your take on this project? >> about ten years ago, a gentleman named byron --

who had been a black umpire named bob motley and they wrote a book together about his dad's adventures in the negroni. they want to make a film and former nicoli players like -- in monte irving. so we started that long journey of trying to raise the money, and it took about seven or eight years before we got all the money in place and they started making a film. but it was really a real pleasure to dig into this very complex and fascinating history. >> you know, sam, and watching this film, it is incredible the number of great athletes, baseball players and they happen to be black, and that is why they could not play in the major leagues, but the other thing that struck me and watching the thumb was the idea that when they eventually were coaxed into the major leagues and allowed to play in the major leagues, players like larry dolby and monte irving, it seems that they played for in the negroni's were not reimbursed.

we're not paid for their contracts. so they got them for free and they played in the major leagues and they were great great players. but the idea of it is -- there is an element of tragedy in this film about all of the players who could have been a major league players much earlier and were prevented from playing in the major leagues only because of their color. >> what one of the things that was a revelation for me as a filmmaker it has an african american male was realizing that people who were involved in the major leagues did not want to compensate the new growth league owners, like you just said. alfred manley, who was a co-owner of the new york eagles, was very very vocal about that. and when bill -- of the cleveland indians wanted to sign larry dobbie, to said that you should really compensate me because the other owners have. so we did compensate the owners, but that was a rarity.

and it was a tragic thing that happened. that was the tragedy. you always need like a savior and bring jackie robinson to the major leagues. but he did not want to play the kansas city monarchs for jackie robinson. he did not want to pay the new york eagles fort dodge newcomb. he didn't want to pay the baltimore league giants for roy cabala. so these are some really interesting revelations to talk about these phenomenal players who never had an opportunity to play in major league soccer. >> sam, talk also about how on the other side of the equation, we know a lot of the pain and humiliation that the black players played in and then eagerly had to go through. but it also rub the american public, the baseball public, of seeing some of the greatest players that ever played because of the color line and because of that, you have people going into the world series who may not have been there had we not had this rigid

gym crow. so america suffered. the sport suffered. talk about that. >> this was fascinating, reverend charlton. we are great players like cole pepper bell, satchel paige, josh gibson. you have -- charleston, buckle entered, buck o'neal. these phenomenal players who had the athletic ability to really make things happen on the baseball paths, and they weren't able to play against people like lou gehrig or babe ruth or dizzy dean. except for at barnstorming events. and so it was jackie. but the positive thing from this experience to is that within our black communities they gave entertainment and excitement for our people to come out and see our players play, and fortunately at some point they realized in the major leagues that they needed to bring in some of these players and not just to break the barrier of segregation, but for my perspective, from a

profit motive because it was going to bring more people into the ballparks. >> sam, it is a extraordinary work, and we know that you have on earth some never before seen footage in interviews with some of the people who were there. tell us a little bit, give us a story to about some of the big personalities for athletes. like a josh gibson or satchel paige. what will we learn from this? >> you will learn first of all there was women in ruth foster in 1920 who had been a phenomenal pitcher and an owner who basically founded the knee grow -- negro national league in kansas city, missouri. and then you learned in the 30s that there are other people like gus greenly and -- posey who great owners of teams like the homestead grays and the pittsburgh crawford's. and there are players like you just mentioned, josh gibson, who was considered on part with may birth as a home run hitter. satchel paige, who is probably one of the greatest pitchers of all-time. these are great great players. bell, who was considered one of

the fastest man on the base paths. so these stories are told to you in detail, and we were very fortunate, we have great archival producer who is able to unearth some wonderful, wonderful archival material that i had not even seen before. that i had not even seen before. so it is reallyarch had extraory sort of deep dive into understanding another aspect of american history. i want to make sure the people understand that this history, this american history that we should all know. about >> simpler, thank you so much for your hard work, and as you said, 78 films -- years to raise the money to get this done, and you've done something extraordinary. congratulations and thank you for being here this morning. >> my pleasure really, thank you very much. >> and that does it for the first hour of morning joe weekend. much more of the week's top stories after the break. to help prevent bleeding gums. try saying 'hello gumwash' with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% plaque bacteria. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash.

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of morning joe weekend. let's jump into a look at some of the week's top stories. we have a great group assembled for a big story this morning, as donald trump awaits a likely indictment for his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. the former president was hit with three new charges yesterday in a separate case. in the southern district of florida, federal prosecutors added to new counts of obstruction and one of willfully retaining national defense information in the case centered around his mishandling of cast to find documents at mar-a-lago.

those new charges laid out in the superseding indictment which alleges trump directed to employees at his palm beach estate to destroy security camera footage. shortly after the justice department issued a subpoena to obtain the same video in june of last year. one of the employees, trump's valet walt nauta, was previously charged along with trump. now, someone else has been added. mar-a-lago property manager carlos di oliveira was charged in yesterday's follow-up indictment. it describes a moment where the two men walked through a flashlight through a dark tunnel at mar-a-lago to scope of a room where classified documents were being watched by security cameras. a few days later, carlos de oliveira allegedly told another employee quote, the boss wanted security footage from that room deleted. as for the other charge, that one involves a meeting from last august at trump's property in bedminster, new jersey. there, the former president

allegedly showed off a classified document about possible attack plans for iran to people who were doing interviews for his former chief of staff mark meadows upcoming memoir. that conversation, you will remember, was captured on a audiotape that was late last month. >> well, with milley, let me see that. i'll show you as an example. he said that i want to attack iran. isn't it amazing? i have a big pile of papers. this thing just came up. look! this was him. they presented me this. this is off the record, but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department in him. >> wow. >> we looked at some -- but this was him. but this wasn't done by me, this was him. all sorts of stuff. pages long, look. wait a minute, let's see here. >> oh my gosh. >> yeah. >> i just found, isn't that

amazing? it totally wins my case, you know. except it is, like, highly confidential. >> yeah. >> by the way, isn't that? incredible >> yeah. >> i was just saying, because we were talking about it. and he said, he wanted to attack iran and what -- >> these are the papers. >> you did. >> this was done by the military and given to me. i don't know. i think we can probably, right? >> i don't know, we will have to see. yeah, we'll have to try to figure out a -- >> declassify it. see, as president i could have declassified it, now i can't, you know? but this is still a secret. >> that is a problem. >> that's an audio of the meeting at bedminster, new jersey. until now with the new superseding indictment, trump is now charged with 40 counts in the classified documents case. he and walt nauta have pleaded not guilty to their previous charges. a lawyer for de oliveira, the property manager, declined to comment. a trial date is tentatively set for may 20th, 2024. so chuck rosenberg, we all were waiting yesterday perhaps to

for a new indictment in an entirely separate case involving the 2020 election and the efforts to overturn it. this goes back now to the mar-a-lago documents case. so for our viewers, what is a superseding indictment, number one, and what do you read into the content of it? >> sure, number one. a superseding indictment is simply additional charges on existing indictment. the first indictment of mr. trump and mr. nauta at mar-a-lago for mishandling classified documents and obstructing the investigation was unsealed about a month ago or so, willie. they have now added charges to it. they have added another defendant. mr. de oliveira. that supersedes the first indictment. it replaces it. it has additional charges. we call it a superseding indictment. what do i make of it? well, you know, it is sort of sad in a way. when i was a federal prosecutor, there were always lower level

individuals. and i can tell you quite frankly but i did not get any joy out of prosecuting them. my goal was always to enlist their cooperation and to have been tell the truth. each of them come to a fork in the road where they can either tell the truth or they can lie, and if they lie, if they obstruct justice as they intended in this case to delete security footage that has been subpoenaed by the department justice, agents and prosecutors really don't have a choice other than to walk away. and they're not inclined to do that. and that is how people like mr. nauta, a low level valet, and mr. de oliveira, a low level property manager, and up in a federal criminal indictment with mr. trump, the former president of the united states. here is what else i make of it. they made really bad choices when they decided to lie to the fbi and obstruct justice. it may not be too late for a good attorney to help each of them salvage it. they can still tell the truth and they can still minimize any

damage to themselves, whether or not that happens, willie, we will see. t happ>> so kimberly and, as wek through this new superseding indictment, eight new characters introduced attracts. that this is mr. de oliveira. he's 56 years old and ahead of maintenance at mar-a-lago. effectively bear who was pulled into all of this by donald trump. just last summer, june 22nd, 2022 when the doj emailed trump's attorneys a draft subpoena, don trump says okay, now i know the fbi, doj is coming or whatever i have here and perhaps for security footage setting in motion this process by which de oliveira tells the head of i.t. in mar-a-lago, the boss, in his words, once the stop deleted. you have looked this indictment. what else do you see in there? >> willie, let's take a pause on what you just said. it is just extraordinary. these allegations rival anything that richard nixon was accused of. these are two additional counts

of obstruction of justice, and this indictment reads like a mafia case. here you have, in again these are allegations, and the burden of proof here is high, and they don't have direct and witnesses implicating trump, but this is a scene to destroy evidence three days after a grand jury subpoena lands on mr. trump. it is mind-boggling, and as chuck said, it involves very low level employees whose lives are about to be ruined unless they cut a deal with prosecutors. and as for mr. nauta, there was no sign he's going to do that. his lawyers are paid for by mr. trump. he is completely loyal. he's following mr. trump around. and the other thing that i think about about these obstruction elements is that a lot of regular americans out there who don't follow this very closely, when we hear about the classified documents case, they have a hard time distinguishing what trump did from what joe biden and mike pence did, even though we all know that it is vastly

different. all three men had classified documents in their possession. but nobody has trouble, i think, differentiating these incredible obstruction of justice charges. everybody understands what it means to destroy evidence, particularly surveillance video evidence. i want to point out that there is no allegation in this new superseding indictment that they actually attempted to destroy the tapes. remember that we read in the new york times about a episode where there was a flood and there was some concern that that was an attempt to destroy the footage. that is not in here. there is no allegation either, there's nobody they can directly put mr. trump in a room and testify that i heard him say this, destroy the tapes. it is all hearsay. it is employment before saying that i talked to carlos de oliveira, and that's what he said. so obviously what they would really like, as chuck said it's for mr. de oliveira to come and testify and tell the truth about his conversations with mr. trump. but if you read this indictment, the obstruction is extraordinary. and then secondly of course

this mysterious document which we believe was a military plan, or the indictment now says was a military plan about options for attacking iran. donald trump said it did not exist, remember? after the original indictment. and so now we know that the government has it, has had it since trump turned over the first batch of documents and the national archive in january 2022, and it is the subject of the tape you just played, and it is a devastating piece of evidence. this superseding indictment seems to me really strengthens this already strong case. we were all waiting around yesterday thinking about the january six indictment was coming. and so we are only at the beginning really of the third inning of the federal legal troubles for former president donald trump. >> it really is astonishing, johnson, and it has to be said, reading through this new indictment, it reads like something straight out of the gambino crime family where the boss wants the tapes elated. donald trump calling his

maintenance, other people who knows are loyal to him and will do what he said, asking him to do things that are going to get him to where we are now, which is brought up on federal charges. guys, meeting in the bushes and mar-a-lago discussing what to do, and after the feds come, checking on mr. de oliveira, the head of maintenance, to make sure that we want to say that carlos is good. in other words, he's not going to school to the feds. is he loyal to us? it is an extraordinary document. document. e loyaraor>> an extraordinary dt with so many parallels to a mafia investigation for the 60s and 70s with one perhaps exception. the inclusion of a emoji. apparently also in there as they're trying to say hey, we're doing some of the secret, don't tell anybody, and we use the shifting emoji. and so that shows you the quality of henchmen that donald trump has and this particular matter. but michael steele, taken's point there when we go, we are here in washington. there are tv trucks lined as far as the eye can see outside of the courthouse.

for the january 6th election indictment was coming. we still think it is coming soon. we don't know if that will be this week or the week after. but this is a reminder. the superseding indictment that they already have donald trump seemingly dead to rights on this case. it's a very serious case about america's most sensitive secrets and yet, in yet, and yet he's leading in the republican polls all across. >> still ahead this morning, with some top republicans are saying about minority leader mitch mcconnell's health scare this week anticipating to lead the republican conference. our heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe,

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where some republican lawmakers this morning are telling nbc news they have concerns about senate minority leader mitch mcconnell and his health and that they personally have witnessed changes in the 81-year-old after he fell and

sustained a concussion in march. their comments came following wednesday's incident when the kentucky republican froze for 19 seconds during a press conference before being escorted away from the cameras. another republicans are calling on mcconnell to step down yet and senators next in line for the top job say that they're not making succession plans at this time. but the murmurings of the party struggling to deal with the sensitive help issues of the longest serving senate party leader nbc news also spoke with other republican lawmakers who stand behind mcconnell and say that they have complete confidence in his ability to leave their conference. >> he said he's fine, i take him at face value. you are not respond to questions yesterday. he was very crisp and his answers. >> all i know is that he's tough. he's been here a long time. >> he is a tremendous amount of support. everyone knows that with one hand tied behind his back, he

is still a superior leader to so many people here that i think people still have a lot of confidence in him. >> i think it's just maybe fatigue. there's been a lot going on. we're doing all kinds of bills. we're trying to keep up with all things and trying to get done in the next two or three months. >> mcconnell has served in the united states senate since 1985. he is not up for reelection until the 2026 midterm elections. and jonathan lemire, you have some new reporting how the white house is watching all of this. obviously, president biden is an old friend of senator mcconnell's from the senate days. >> no question. the two men spoke this week after mcconnell's incident there and had one conversation. i'm told that the white house is watching this. mcconnell for so long has been such a villain for democrats, but now for this white house, he has become a important partner and a bulwark if you will holding back some of the more radical right-wing forces

of republican lawmakers on capitol hill. also willing to keep mccarthy in check and one port and lee important to keep donald trump and check in the white house. word about what he come next. mcconnell not expected to run for reelection. and so the white house is already preparing for what that could look like with a mcconnell gop. but if his health forces him to step away before than -- >> it seems saying that's not going to be the case. obviously, that in the future could come even sooner. but talk to us about the dynamic there in the senate. i think you and i both know that there are succession plans. >> there are succession plans being discussed, absolutely. >> talk to us about what that could look like. >> well i think that they would be a battle for the leadership, particularly if the senate becomes more in play for the 2024 cycle where it looks like republicans can take the majority again. and i think that would be one way in which mcconnell could very easily transition out. by the way actually, that battle for who would then succeed him and the leadership

is going to be, i think it is going to be a lot more tense than people think it is. i mean jonathan would be my personal favorite to be honest. i have known him for a long time and i think he is a incredible leader who heads that ability to work with the president across the aisle and all of that should biden return to office. but there is also going to be that sort of manga-esque kind of back flow which is sort of bubbled up in the senate with the tuberville's and others. it's kind of making noise. and so that is going to make an interesting storyline. what i find more interesting right now, particularly in the clips that were played. take out mcconnell's name in stick in biden. all right? and so we can dispense with all of the ageism stuff coming from republicans about joe biden because the reality of it is that our country is being led by octogenarians, older

individuals, and both parties you know, the pike on this one. and so dial it back, be concerned about mcconnell's health, as i'm sure people are concerned about biden, and they're concerned about diane feinstein and others. those narratives will play themselves out. but this whole idea that my guy who had this episode in front of national cameras is somehow better than your guy who has tripped over sandbag, we just need to put all that crazy aside and move beyond that at this point because their health obviously is important, but you can't drive the politics necessarily that way. and if it is that bat for mcconnell or biden or anyone else, then step out of it. >> after the break, the new move to honor and tell and his mother. reverend al sharpton weighs in on the significance of this week's announcement next. ncement next , and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank.

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♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ >> on august 28th, 1955, emmett

till, a 14-year-old black child was kidnapped and killed by white men and mississippi just weeks after his birthday. days later, tills mother -- bradley opted to have an open casket funeral to allow the press and the public to see the way her son have been brutalized. the event triggered protests and helped light a fire under the civil rights movement. yesterday, president biden signed a proclamation to have national monuments depicting till and his mother directed in illinois and mississippi. before signing the measure, president biden offered personal remarks on the decision to approve of her mornings. >> it's hard to believe that i was 12 years old and i just know no matter how much time has paths, however many events or anniversaries that it was hard to relive this.

it brings it all back as if it happened yesterday. on an open casket for her murdered and i might add maimed middle aged son. 14 years old. 14 years old. she said, let the people see what i see. let the people see what i have seen. my god, all of us have lost children in other ways. how hard it is even declares the casket or keep it open. but to see the child that had been named named, in the country in the world saw, and heard the story of emmett till and his mother. there was a story of a family's promise and loss and the

nation's reckoning with hate, violence, racism, overwhelming abuse of power and brutality. in today, what we have -- what would've been emits 82nd birthday. we have a chapter of remembrance and history. >> i took my kids to the african american history museum and they have a casket. you see a picture of his face longer lay that day. and it gets at your gut. it is devastating. it is moving at the same time, and you see how it sparked the civil rights movement, but at what a cost and what it moving ceremony that was yesterday. >> you know, i was honored to know and a medications meet --

and i was heartened by what president biden did yesterday is he named the monuments after emmett and his mother because if it had not been for mamie till, mobley's coverage, we would never have known what would happen to emmett till. emmett till was unfortunately not the only black kid that was beaten and killed in the south and up time period. even since. it was her decision. she told me she came to the national action network in the late 90s and several times after. she told me in private, and in public, she would say they advised her well, you don't really want to open the casket because his head was beat out of recognition. he was maimed. and she said no. and she said no. d. and when she had that funeral at the church of guarding cries in chicago, she said open up the casket. and as president biden raised yesterday, it was the black press, the jet magazine.

the chicago defender. not the chicago tribune, that show them pictures that shook up the world. and every member that later, rosa parks told a story and i was among a group of ministers that heard her say this. she said that a year later when i sat on that bus in montgomery, that sparked the montgomery bus boycott, and we call the police and said, this color woman would move to the back, the policeman ordered me to move to the back. she said that all i could think of was emmett till, and i couldn't move. that is what emmett till meant to the history of the civil rights movement. ironically, august 28th, the day he was captured in killed, august 28 63 was when they had the march on washington when dr. king made his i have a dream speech. the anniversary of emmett till and martin the third and by getting ready for a march 60 years later. now, against some of the same issues. now i think with president biden and vice president harris did yesterday with this monuments and bringing the

monuments also to include his mother is a challenge as all of us should have some -- in us not to let them -- what is been down this country. >> you know, the clip that we just showed about the president speaking yesterday was perhaps 45 seconds long and it is lost in the russian media that we do today. we propel ourselves from one event to another, different events, but that clip, 45 seconds showed joseph r. biden, who he really is. he is a emotional guy. he is a president of the united states who is capable of tears over loss. not his loss, your loss. our loss. and i don't think he gets enough credit for being the decent human being that you know, that are now, that we all know. he does not get enough credit for it. >> and you don't have to agree with somebody to say no, this

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yesterday increased interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point, signaling a wait and watch approach to any further rate hikes. this brings the former treasury official and wanted to economic analyst resplendent and gauge this morning wearing his summer suit. it just crushing it right now. steve rattner is with us. steve, looking great. >> well, if barack obama can do it a press conference, i can do it in also new light as -- man if i need to. >> there you go, there you go. it jack of all trades. let's walk through some of these charts steve and we all knew that was coming. a quarter of a percentage point. how significant was it as you read into the numbers? >> and just as reminder of course we have had this incredible string of rising interest rates and yesterday the fed rose to a five and a half percent rate. the fed in the market think we are at the end of the cycle. we're looking at maybe want to interest rate increases before it all starts to turn down

getting down here about three and a half percent. in about two and a half years. and so the end maybe near here for our tightening cycle. but i think today we will take a look at what this means for average americans. so if we go back before covid of course, interest rates were kind of fairly normal range. homeowners pay around 4%, savers and money market funds got between two and 3%, and then all rates went to zero. mortgage rates came down, and now they are not, surprisingly, following the fed up here. here is the fed. here is what mortgage rates are. they pumped about 7%. money market funds for the sailors out there, close to 4%. bank deposits still really have not moved. they don't move that much. banks need these low cost deposits to create their profit margin. and so you can see for both borrowers and savers, it is also been a pretty steep climb lately. >> and you're next chart, steve, you point out the reasons for this consistent step up in rate hikes is because it calmly

frankly that is performing even better than the fed expected it to. >> and last month we out of over 200,000 new jobs. the unemployment rate is close to 50-year low at 3.6%, and economists have been bringing up their forecast for economic growth for this year. now to 1.5%. not a huge amount, but back at the beginning of the year people thought the economy was going to be almost at stall speed. that is what is been driving the fed up. and as we look ahead, we're not out of the woods yet in terms of the economy. economists have been bringing down the projections for growth next year really to almost zero and the probability of a recession, i know we're talking about lately about a soft landing, but if you talk about economists, they still think there's a 60% or better chance of a recession next year. we are on kind of a crossroads in the economy at this moment. >> and it was significant, was not that the feds said yesterday that announcing its rate hike that they have sort of taken the threat of recession way back from where

they believed it was. they were not projecting a recession next year. >> that's exactly right, really. powell did pullback is recession forecast. i do think that we had a greater probability of a soft landing today than we would've said to a few months ago. there's no question that economy still remain strong inflation has been coming down perhaps a bit faster than we thought, it's were not really out of the woods yet by any means. >> and in your last right, steve you're looking at inflation. obviously, it is the key to all of this and what the fed will be watching. >> exactly. powell made a point yesterday of saying that the fed, as they say often, is dependent on what happens going forward will depend on a number of things that it really represents on these two charts. first of course is inflation. the cpi, which everybody focuses on, it is the shaded area, and of course we all saw that 3% cpi numbers come out recently, and that was very encouraging. the fed looks at a different measure of inflation called a -- and we will get on the weeds on that. but that is the stark line

here. and this is headline. this includes food and energy, which as we talked about before, has driven a lot of the inflation during this past cycle. when you take food and energy out, which is what the fed and most economists do what we call corps has not been as inflationary, but the pce again is sitting here at about 4.8%. we are going to get a new pc number on friday. the hope is for 4.2%. that would really be great, and that is one of the things the fed is watching to get down to this 2% level. it wants to be a 2% before it really starts cutting interest rates. really starts cutting interest rates. the biggest driver of inflation's wages. we all want wages to go up. we want people to earn more, but you have to find the happy balance between wage increases and wage increases that create inflation. and again, wages were rising in a fairly normal rate. we honor that they jumped up. interestingly, the slight line is if you, quit your job and take another drop. you get a bigger pay increase if you stay at your job.

but nonetheless, which increases have already started to moderate, but they're only down to about five and a half percent. . we have 1.6 unfilled jobs for americans looking for one. we still have almost 10 million unfilled jobs in this country and that is going to keep pressure on wages. and so the fed needs this to come down to between three and 4% to have a hope of 2% inflation. >> and steve, maybe you can help us out with a perplexing question. there, i got it out. the question would be that the economy seems to be doing fairly well. it seems to be fairly healthy. unemployment is at historic lows. yada yada yada. inflation has sort of been stewart for a bit. why is it that so many people are walking around in this country today saying, it's terrible, things are terrible for me. the future looks very bleak. what is the contrast. why? >> you know mike, it's a great question, we've talked about on this show before. i have not had a perfect answer before, and probably not going to have a perfect answer now.

i think that there's a few things. i think it takes a long time for people to get over economic shocks of bad news, and we did go through a rough period, and i think people are still thinking about that, and secondly i do think, and many people think inflation is what people really care about. when they see have a lot of inflation they assume it is bad for them, they assume that they're after inflation and incomes are going to go down, the person powers going to go down, and that bothers them. and then there's much longer broader issues. the question of whether their kids are going to live as well as they do, all the polls say people think that's not going to happen and that would be the first time in american history. and so there is a lot of history around this and then there's also the need to get this inflation numbers down i think for people to really feel better. >> fascinating stuff as always. done in beige. he just pulls it off so beautifully. steve rattner, a man of summer, a man of charts, a man who commands the southwest wall. steve, thanks so much. we appreciate it. after the break, two-time emmy

award winning actor dorsal -- joseph gordon-levitt tells us about a major sticking point in those hollywood strikes and what to do about it. you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. meet the team all using chase to keep up with their finances. smart bankers. convenient tools. boom. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment

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2... what's next? 1... >> with the hollywood actors strike entering its third week now, we talk with your dose of gordon live it about an important sticking point in the negotiations. the use of a.i. in the entertainment industry. that is part of our conversation. joining us now with more on the actors and writers strike is actor writer,, and director, joseph gordon-levitt. joseph, it's a great have you with us with this poster you wrote for the washington post that that, if artificial intelligence takes it up, it should peggy, which gets the core of the strike here. let's read this, tech giants, entertainment giants, and every profit hungry giant will simply in the a i can to human level work and astonishing small fraction of the cost. however, this claim will be hiding something, like the wizard of oz bellowing, hey

noah tension to that man behind the curtain. what's behind the curtain of a.i.? the cost of the human labor it took to produce the training data. generative a.i. cannot generate anything at all without first being trained on massive troves of data then recombines. who produces that training data? people do. and most people deserve residuals. for example, let's say in the way i could deliver a complete feature film at the click of a button. some industry insiders think this could actually happen pretty soon. building that i would require a bazillion past movies to be used as training data. therefore, anytime this a.i. gilded revenue, the people who made those past movies deserve a substantial piece. and i'm not just talking about actors and writers, rights joseph. i also mean people who don't get residuals today. the camera operators, the costume designers, sound mixers, everyone who is work that a.i. will be ingesting, mashing up, and mimicking. so joseph, he right so well about this, explaining it. i think a lot of layman say, what are they striking about

exactly? what's at the heart of all of this? i'll let you expand a little bit and explain to our viewers what you think this moment is so important in hollywood. >> yeah, absolutely. thanks for having me here. you know, i've been fascinated with a.i. for years, and as a technology is getting more and more powerful, i've gotten really concerned about what it will mean for my industry and honestly, not even so much for my livelihood, but for the people that i work with. like i mentioned in that piece, those camera operators and sound mixers. the people that are like family to me, who worked really long hours together. and i'm very concerned with what this technology is going to mean for them and their lives. but it also goes beyond hollywood. i think the technology is going to impact so many different industries, and maybe the film and television industry is sort of a canary in the coal mine. so, what i'm suggesting if an a.i. has used your work to be built, they call it trained, and that a.i. makes money, if

you get a piece of that money. and the entertainment industry, that's called residuals. >> joseph, in your piece in the post today, you raise an important issue. i think most people, most americans, when the reading at all about the strike, considered a strike, writers, actors, on strike, you know, everybody is tom cruise. everyone's making a million bucks. but there are people in the union who are going to lose their homes if this strike continues. they are going to lose health and currents with no financial backup. speak a bit about those people who really move the industry forward? >> yeah, it's absolutely true. so much of sag-aftra, the people striking, are under threat like that are not the big, high profile people you talk about. it's also important is what about another labor union which is not currently on strike, which did go on strike, i think it was a year or maybe two or go? i got see, and that is the labor union of the crew members

of the people who operating the camera and that camera and the life and the hair and the makeup and the wardrobe. tons of people who can't work right now because this studios won't give a fair deal to the actors and the rioters. >> coming up next, the unsung heroes of baseball. we'll talk to an author who is highlighting the importance of the backup catcher. the er

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said no baseball player would be worth a darn without a player who could catch the hard fastball. then i backup catcher. our next guest writes, if you work your whole young life to become strong and clever, to see the game and others don't or can't, if you commit holy to yourself, the group, the, win and today, if you then will give it all the way, then you will be the backup catcher. joining us now, a longtime national baseball -- new york times bestselling author, tim brown. his latest book is titled, the tao of the backup catcher. it is so great to have you with us this morning. growing up, i used to love the backup catcher. i was a yankee fan, so it was very footer but shuai nicaragua's guys. tell us more about the idea behind these book and why those backup catchers are such fascinating characters? >> well we'll leave, i think you are an athlete. you get the folks on your team who, whose value somehow adds up to more than their tools.

more than their talents. and for me, 30 years covering the game, every time i walked into a clubhouse, my favorite guy was the backup catcher. they were humble. they were accessible. they were welcoming. they have this great perspective on the world. and i think i just sort of chased that for 30 years, and about five, six years ago, came upon again named eric kratz, who spent 19 years in pro ball, 14 different organizations, nine different teams in the major leagues, was part of 120 different transactions, and i felt, what better way to tell the story of not just one backup catcher, or all the backup catchers, but this culture of backup catchers and what they bring to a clubhouse, what they bring to a team? they are the journeyman's journeyman. and for my money, they are the

soul of baseball. this is what, when i think of baseball, i think of these guys. >> you know, tim? you so aptly described the state in the art of the backup catcher. and i was thinking of several of them as you were just talking about. david ross probably most prominent backup catcher. the gifts that he brought when he was with the red sox and every other team he brought. specifically, with the red socks, within the locker room, as well has his skill behind the plate when he would occasionally. like he played more and more often. but the interesting thing to me about the backup catchers is how many of them go on to become fairly good major league managers. because of their experience as a backup catcher. >> i would agree with that. as it so happens, of the 30 current big league managers, 14 spent all or parts of their careers as a backup catcher.

and i think a big part of that is like you and me, they watched a lot of baseball over the years. and i think that they learn how to lead a group. they learn how to connect to a group. they stood next to managers. they sat next to pitching coaches. they discovered what worked, what didn't in the clubhouse. what wins games that you can't quantify. i think if you look at a 26-man roster, 25 of those men will fit into and analytical model, right? the new game is very analytics forward. one of those guys is just a good, hard working person who can connect with teammates, who makes the guy next to him better. this is, as i was writing the book and speaking to dozens of these guys, it occurred to me that it's not just about baseball. it's about. life it's not who these -- this is who we want to be.

we are all on our journey. we don't know where the journey goes, but you can decide who you are going to be on that journey. i think every good backup catcher does that. >> tim, congrats on the book. my favorite backup catcher stories, the time the red sox set a police escort to get done mayor belt of the ballpark in time to catch tim wakefield knuckleball, because -- he struggled with it so much. but it also strikes me that the catcher, particularly that backup catcher, who's not in there every day, he also has to put his own game second. he subservience his offensive game, because he's behind the plate and he is trying to get the call for his picture, even if it means well, i might not get that one. i'm at the plate at the back. talk to us about how that informed the philosophy of that particular position? >> again, i think a massive percentage of, to your point, no hitters, for example, are caught by backup catchers, because of this commitment to the other guy. you know, there are very few

people in the world who can hit 100-mile-per-hour fastball. very few backup catchers do so with any sort of regularity. so, their value to a team is making the next guy better. oftentimes, that guy is 60 feet, seven inches away, and late build this confidence, this relationship, and it's not just over three hours. backup catchers are really good at winning baseball games in the 21 hours around the game, and that means being a father figure, a big brother, a spiritual adviser a drinking buddy. whatever you need, and along that way, along those fortes between starts, for a starting pitcher, that's what they're building together. that relationship that ability to understand what each other's thinking in a given moment. >> as you point out with the example of bill plummer, the backup on the reds in the 1970s to johnny bench. part of the job is to hear the boos when your name is announced because they came to

see the starter. they came to see johnny bench. it's a really fun new book. it's titled the tao of the backup catcher, playing baseball for the love of the game. tim brown, congratulations on the book. thanks for being here today. >> thanks, willie. have a great day. >> and that's it for us. we'll be back life this monday at 6 am, eastern time. have a great rest of the weekend. wed. >> this is the katie phang show, live from miami, florida. we've got lots of news to cover and lots of questions to answer, so, let's get started. from worst to not even the worst yet, the most indicted former united states president in united states history now hit with new obstruction charges, and the mar-a-lago classified documents case. special counsel jack smith superseding indictment alleging that trump issued a mob boss like order to delayed possibly devastating evidence. we're going in that to trump's watergate, his possible third and