it's saturday, july the 29th. i'm ali velshi. all week, we expect to see donald trump indicted for his efforts to interfere with the 2020 election. but instead, he was hit with more criminal charges in the other federal case, for which he is already been indicted. on thursday, special counsel jack smith filed three additional counts against trump, and his co defendant, vault not to, in the classified document case. nearly 12 months after they were both initially invited. on top of, that a third defendant was added into the case. carlos de oliveira, who previously served as a valet at mar-a-lago, and is now the property manager of trump's palm beach residents and private resort. the new charges against trump include one additional counts of willful retention of national defense information, regarding a top secret document that trump allegedly showed it to a group of people without proper security clearances, and his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. and incident was captured in an audio recordings. the other two counts are obstruction charges, related to

an attempt to delete security footage that has been subpoenaed, that had been subpoenaed by the federal government. it's a surprising turn of events, considering many people, including trump's legal team, we're expecting an indictment in the 2020 election interference case this week. the one for which trump recently received a target letter. but the developments this week underscored the complex and highly perilous legal situation in which the former president finds himself. it also confirms reports that the special counsel's team isn't quite done investigating or issuing charges in the mar-a-lago documents case. the superseding indictment includes more incriminating details, which makes it clear that prosecutors believe donald trump was directly involved in an attempt to obstruct justice and prevent federal agents from retrieving government records and highly sensitive documents, which he had no right to keep. one passage highlights the oliveira temps to get -- a mar-a-lago director of information technology, who's been that the fight now as trump employee for in the

superseding indictments, to covertly delete the security footage that the government had requested, quote, the oliveira told trump employee for their conversation should remain between the two of them. he asked trump employee for how many days the server retain footage. trump employee for said he believed it was 45 days. he told trump employee four said the boss wanted the server to leave. a trump employee four said he didn't know how to do that and didn't believe he would have the rights to do that. trump employee four told de oliveira that yellow bear wood have to reach out to another employee, who was the supervisor of the security for trump's business organization. viola barrett insinuated to trump employee four said that the boss wanted the -- said what are we going to do? in total, the twice impeached twice indicted former president is now facing 74 counts on a host four of criminal and ices -- for which he's already been indicted. the classified top humans

matter, and the manhattan district of attorneys probe of the hush money payments made to the act -- trump is likely to be charged with even more crimes in the days or weeks ahead. fani willis, the district attorney for fulton county georgia is expected to announce charging decision soon. likely sometime in august. in her investigation of the efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, specifically in georgia. two days ago, trump's lawyers met with prosecutors at jack smith's office and were told to expect an indictment in the special counsel's federal case related to the multi state scheme to interfere in the 2020 elections. we will have to get to that -- scott bolden, a white-collar criminal attorney defense attorney with the law firm reeves smith lp. he is the former chair of the national bar association pack. also with, us our great friend, lisa, reuben a former litigator at msnbc legal analyst. welcome and good morning to

both of. you uttered even know where to start. there's so much. lisa, let's try, this the addition of this guy, carlos de oliveira, as a defendant in this case, several weeks after donald trump, and nauta. what is the likelihood that the doj prosecutors are trying to get this guy to cooperate with? them he seems to have information and he seems to, according to the indictment, have lied about what he knew. tell me about him and the role he plays in this. >> de oliveira has been with the trump organization for more than 20 years, he is what we would call one of the ultimate trump loyalists, as demonstrated by his behavior as of late. i think it's, clear however, as you just alluded, to that doj had high goals that they could flip de oliveira. one of the things we know is that they seized de oliveira phone, and that's reflected in the superseding indictment. there are a number of, tax not only between nauta and de

oliveira, but between de oliveira and others, reflecting the fact that they got some helpful evidence from de oliveira's phone, they might have gotten some helpful evidence from de oliveira himself, there's an allegation, for example, that at one point in the narrative, trump calls de oliveira after ensuring that he is going to be loyal through another employee. and offers him counsel and, indeed, secures council for de oliveira from john irving. who is someone also under stood to be a representative of multiple others in the trump universe. i do think there are hopes that were high, ultimately they felt they had no choice after he lied to them and resisted their treaties. and to indict, them to see where the trips of. all but nauta we, de oliveira may have made the calculus that he can wait and see how long the case is gonna go on with the hopes that trump will be president again, and can either pardon him and or stop this criminal matter from going forward. >> and, scott this is exactly the conversation you and i had.

in washington last, week we know from what lisa just told us, and from federal election commission findings, the law firm for which carlos de oliveira works, was paid more than $189,000 by donald trump's save america pact. we have no idea of the hundred and 80 or thousand dollars, if any, was used to pay's legal, fees because he shares the same lawyer with other trump connected folks. i asked you this, ben and i ask you this again, at what point is doing that a conflict of interest? i suppose anybody could pay for anyone's lawyer, but if there is an underlying crime, does that change anything? >> it doesn't, it does not change the conflict itself, but what you really need to look for is whether the lawyers are giving those individuals good advice, or bad advice, and at some, point those individuals have got to be thinking,, listen i don't want to stay in trump's orbit. i don't want to stay in the political crime family any longer.

what is life like for me outside of that crime family? it doesn't look good right now, the other thing you have to think about about de oliveira is that his timing on these conversations with trump and trying to get rid of the video, not only puts trump in the position of trying to eliminate evidence, after they have got a subpoena, but more importantly, it indicates that trump himself is doing more than withholding documents. he's trying to get rid of evidence after he has received a subpoena from the federal government. that is critical right. there he is 74 indictments now. by the way, employ three, four, and five of the indictments, they are talking. that is going to put pressure on trump's codefendants, and smith's indictment, additional indictments, proceeding indictments. it says that if you lie, and if you don't cooperate, life only gets worse for. you have to get out of the

political crime family that may not look, good but it's the only place you've got to go. now >> all, right, lisa on a conservative radio show, donald trump was gaslighting, he said it's his footage, he has a right to deleted. i have a right to delete my security footage. you have rightly. yours until somebody serves you with a subpoena. until the feds tell you they need that stuff, then that right has to be litigated by a court. what's your take on? that >> is the question for me? >> yes. >> i'm sorry, ali. the issue of trump being able to delete his security footage because it is his it's exactly as you just said, you might have a right to delete security footage that you own, but once you understand that you are under investigation, and particularly once you are sent a subpoena, that right no longer belongs to. you if you want to litigate the correctness of that grand jury

subpoena, there are means to do so. you will probably lose. but the idea that trump could, after receiving a subpoena, then destroy evidence is the example of obstruction of justice. >> there is another matter. >> here and another thing. >> go ahead, scott. >> i'm sorry, the other thing is that his efforts to destroy this video footage shows his criminal intent, general or specific, he has knowledge and he has criminal intent now because he knows he has broken the law, and now he's trying to cover it up. remember, nixon, the cover-up is always worse than the bad act, and smith has figured that out. this trial, if it takes place, is going to be all about the cover-up. donald trump is going to be made to be the new dawn corleone of the political crime family. it's not the biden family. it is his cover-up, it is witnesses against him. this is not going to be good if he ever goes to trial. and not good for the gop party to support. this criminality, it's just is

ridiculous. >> lisa, let's talk about one other thing that was in the superseding indictment. there was this issue of willful retention. it's a new, count a new charge, both for retention of national defense information that was related to the top secret documents that donald trump showed to people at bedminster. this is about some sort of attack plan he describes as an attack. plan we think it's about an attack plan having to do with iran. tell me about why this was added, now the other stuff looks like a development in the case. we didn't know about this information beforehand. what is new about this new count? >> there's two things that are new. one, department of justice ultimately located the document and then they must have had a witness or more than one witness tell them yes, this is the document that donald trump showed me at that bedminster in july of 2021. you remember, after this tape came, out and even after the original indictment, donald

trump denied up and down to multiple media outlets that they're even was any such document. but we know from the superseding indictment, not only is there such a document, but it was returned to the national archives on january 17th, 2022. you can see that. i have a right next to me on page 37 of the indictment. each of the counts of willful retention state when the document was first willfully retain by donald trump, unlawfully, which is the day he left office, and then when it was return to the federal government. most of the documents of that issue will return on june 3rd, 2022, that is when the doj flew down to mar-a-lago and met with evan corcoran. but this one is january 17th, 2022, which in another part of the superseding indictment, it lets us know, is the day that trump returned his first 15 boxes to the national archives. that is not enough to get us. they're the doj, the special counsel's office, it is also telling us that this is definitively the document that donald trump showed to folks. this is something that they could only know by talking to one of the four participants in

that meeting. to trump staffers, a writer and publisher, from mark meadows my marks. one or more of them, ali, is talking. >> thank you so much for joining us this. morning scott gulden, white-collar criminal defense attorney and lisa rubin, former litigator at msnbc legal analyst. thanks to both of. you silicon valley, israel is pledging into a democratic crisis. first part of prime minister's netanyahu's traditional overhaul was made official. protesting continuing into the weekend. we have the latest from jerusalem, next. plus, on today's meeting of the velshi banned book club, we are discussing the heartwarming book, the best at. it with its author, malik potentially. when sexual identity and cultural heritage in a way that any reader can understand. we are going to discuss all of these topics and the books widespread ban across florida and texas. and texas.

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are expected to take to the streets to protest netanyahu's judicial overhaul. on monday, the country past the first major law in the contentious plan which takes the power away from the supreme court to declare government decisions on reasonable. it has been seen by many israelis as a blow to the country's democracy. for weeks, now hundreds of thousands of citizens have taken to the streets daily in opposition to the judicial overhaul plan which was first announced in january. netanyahu, however, has remained defiant, in an interview with npr, he refused to commit to respecting an upcoming supreme court ruling, on the plan, if it contradicts his government's wishes. setting stage for the potential clash between netanyahu and the justices. another layer is that netanyahu himself is embroiled in ongoing corruption trial, raising suspicions that he is using the digital overhaul as a means to curtail the judge hears authority, perhaps to gain unchecked power and possibly remove the country's top prosecutor, who was overseeing his trial.

senior members of netanyahu's party have opened legal for her dismissal. fueling those concerns. the passage of the law, which was also called out by u.s. president, joe biden, repeatedly cautioning netanyahu against pursuing his plan. but the monday's vote was just a first up and weakening the authority of israelis court, leading to the degradation of democracy in. israel in the face of domestic and international criticism, netanyahu pushed ahead with his plans, all in an effort to consolidate power, stay in, office and avoid being prosecuted. does that sound familiar to you? joining us now is a journalist basin. israel she has two decades of experience covering this conflict, the u.s. in the middle east, and human rights in south america. good to see you again. tell me about the latest developments in israel. at this point, netanyahu, a few months, ago felt like he heard those protests and was going to -- it is look like that's what happened. >> no, hi, ali good to see you

too. no, it definitely is not what happened. and i think it is important to stay focused on despite what prime minister netanyahu is saying, despite what he said to the white house, the truth is that he is pushing ahead full force and with a package of laws that, as you say, would basically eliminates the scrutiny power of israel's judiciary. it's not just a plan to defame the supreme court. it is a much wider spread plan in which netanyahu wants to subsume the israeli judiciary, which is an independent powerful judiciary, and is the only check on executive power. he wants to subsume that under an all powerful executive. israel right now, and i'm

quoting, the former israeli attorney general appointed by netanyahu, professor -- who said that having passed this law on, monday netanyahu will now put israel on the brink of authoritarianism. >> tell me about how that feels. because obviously we discussed that endlessly here in america about american politics. where are israelis on this? because one source of pride for israelis in a country that has been divided over a lot of things has been that it's not that. how clear is that? how front and center is? that i think i may answer my own question when we see pictures of these protests. that is really central to israel's best argument about israel in the last 50 years. >> you are right, and i will take that a step further. it is really astonishing for someone like me, most of my career has been spent in one way or another observing benjamin yet now who.

for many of those, years it's appeared that one thing he did really well was give israel weight above its real punching weight on the international diplomatic stage. he was israel's face to the world. and the ce that we see now is a snarling dismissive face of someone who is trying to become a hungarian style autocrat. he seems to be just throwing to the wind all of that goodwill, and all the real achievements for israel, it's a small country that's under significant military menace. he seems willing to put the nation security, its diplomatic standing, and it's number one strategic asset, which is its ties to the united states, at risk. so as to pass a number of laws which would give him something close to absolute. power >> tell me about what is going on with the influence or relationship with the united states. we have the israeli president here, obviously, her -- it's a different place

politically. but we have a conversation between joe biden and netanyahu and they seem to been some movement there as it relates to the settlements, which are such a sticking point between israel and its neighbors. and israel and the palestinians, and even to some degree, israel and america, where does that fit into this whole thing? on one sense, netanyahu is continuing to dig in and be the extremist that we are seeing him to be, on the other, and there seems to have been something that happened in a conversation between biden and netanyahu. >> well, to the best of my knowledge, and i had a second source confirmed this for me today, to the best of my knowledge, netanyahu misled the president in a conversation, and my understanding is that the white house is incandescent, and then he went further and he lied in public. sorry to use a harsh word, but he lied in public about something that the president didn't say to him, and my understanding is that the white house has more or less hot it

with netanyahu's shenanigans. that he has used them against israelis for many many years. and israelis kind of let it slide for different reasons. but what we are seeing right now is to the best of my knowledge, from several sources, that prime minister netanyahu assured president biden in a recorded documented call, that he would not pass any of this kind of power grab legislation without there being a broad national consensus. within a few days, that was clearly made to be a lie. the other thing he did, which was almost verging on bizarre, is after the phone call with biden, netanyahu put out a printed statement, a formal press release saying that president biden had invited him to a white house visit. that simply never happened. there is something you asked, before i just wanted to turn back because it's important. how israelis are reacting, the most recent polls show

netanyahu decisively losing as majority by more than ten parliament seats. and, last saturday, a week ago from today, it's 5.7% of the population state of israel was out on the streets protesting. that is the equivalent of 19 million americans hitting the streets on a night of protest. >> thank you for your continuing coverage. i recommend that my viewers follow you on social media. i learned a lot from your. writing we noga tarnopolsky is an independent journalist based on. israel so, ahead former president trump has been charged with willful retention of national defense information and it is in connection to a tape recording of trump literally saying, quote, this is secret information, look, look at this. look at this. >> probably because of that flea ck medicine you've been ordering from chewy. we are very proud of you. you never stop surprising us, bailey. right? i'm great. you are great.

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against donald trump with connection of his mishandling against -- when the indictment was unsealed last month much of the attention was on mar-a-lago property in florida. the justice had turned its incident into at the golf club in bedminster, new jersey. it's where one crucial scene played out in july of 2021, meaning donald trump showed off what he described as a, quote, highly confidential military plan. his words. believe now to be about iran. it was recorded by a writer and a publisher who were interviewing the former president for a memoir about his former chief of staff, mark meadows. >> well, with milley, a, let me see that, i'll show you an example. he said that i wanted to attack iran. isn't it amazing? i have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. look. i just found, isn't that amazing? this totally wins my case, you. no except it is like, highly confidential. >> yeah. >> it's a secret, this is

secretive nation. look at. this >> is the secret information, look, look at this. after that reporting really, trump explicitly denied that he had any classified documents with them at the time of the recordings. i don't know what he was showing anyone. in an interview with fox news he said quote, there was no document. there was nothing to be classified. these were newspaper stories. many dozen stories, articles, and put. >> look, it's a secret, look at this. no indictment charges trump with one additional count of willful retention of national defense information and two additional in subsection, count it clarifies the question of whether or not they had classified documents that day in bedminster. the additional count, willful retention of national defense information. according to the superseding indictment, concerns are quote, presentation concerning military activity in a foreign country. and quote. it's not speculation, it's a federal charge. the new count confirms that the document trump possessed and showed on july, first 2021, is

charged discount 32. in this superseding indictment. joining me now is the co-editor of just security. he's also former deputy legal adviser for the national security council during the obama administration. , tescott to see you. this is a real thing. it's silly what trump says about it. he actually said on the recording this is secret, it's highly classified. he said there's no such document. clearly there was a document, it was about -- but this is actually -- the government -- >> this is clearly classified for a reason. military planting capabilities, as we've talked about before, some of the most zealously guarded secrets are government has and it's the reason is great lives can be at stake if they're compromised.

jack in a situation where you need to act quickly can be taken off the table, the ability about bursaries to understand our capabilities, to know what we know about their capabilities. all of those are things that rightly need to remain classified. it's also important to point out that we don't know exactly what this document is. it is referred to as a presentation. many of the other documents are referred to as assessments, briefings, they are clearly intelligence community products, created for the president. this is different. this is something he refers to, and that call you just aired as a plan of attack, it is called a presentation. and it's superseding indictment, that i think is something that we should focus on as something incredibly serious that this has an operational aspect to. and that separates and i think from the other documents. >> why is this here now as opposed to in the original indictment. do you have any sense of what they needed, more time? we have this information, then

obviously the other things about deleting of security footage is different and a new development based on witness testimony. but why this now, with respect to this document, this presentation? >> great, question i think there are a couple of possible reasons. one is that it was still deemed very sensitive by the originating department or agency. and they didn't want the department of justice to have to use it in this case, unless absolutely necessary. there could have been some discussion still around whether this document is one of the batch out of over 100 classified documents that we know or recovered that should be used in the prosecution. another is that the prosecution developed more evidence connecting this particular document to the conversation that trump had at bedminster with a group of people that lacked security clearances. that direct evidence, because this is a document, of, course that we now know essentially is

the subject of his admission of guilt. of his consciousness that remains classified. but we need to know, in order to actually make that case in court, the government needed to know that this particular piece of paper is the one he was waving around. he's the one he was showing. to these other people, it may be the new evidence came to light or they were able to get new evidence that they thought would be able to present in court that enabled them to make the connection between that conversation and the piece of paper. >> originally this trial was hoping to have it start earlier this year. one of the reasons why was delayed was the volume of information and the type of information. the fact that it is classified, it just means it's harder to review and read, it's harder for donald trump and his lawyers to deal with because it has to be consumed in a scif, a compartmentalize, secure environment. donald trump is now moving to have that not be the case. or at least he's complaining about. it is that a nonstarter? we >> it should be an absolute

nonstarter. the gravity of this case is that the president, the former president was willfully retaining classified information in places where he knows it shouldn't be. and retaining information he shouldn't, have of course. and we have discussed this before, but it is beyond clear that mar-a-lago is not a safe place to be discussing, let alone reviewing, this kind of information. it is open to foreign visitors, who knows what foreign agents have already been able to plant on primacy's, if someone has a phone in their pocket, you have to assume it could be compromised. there is really any number of reasons from a security perspective that this should be an absolute nonstarter. it also is alarmingly showing that the former president either doesn't understand or demonstrate concern for the fact that these very importantly guarded secrets,

including things like military plans, should not be discussed in unsecure environments. and that is just being driven home by this latest motion. >> test, good to see you, thanks for your analysis. when tess bridgeman is the deputy legal adviser for the security council for the adama administration. today's version of velshi banned book club, i will speak to maulik pancholy to discuss his word when winning book, the best at it, the seventh grader to journey to discover what he has the best set. learning about himself in the process. it is a heartwarming story of self discovery, family, and friendship, that masterfully explore serious topics. don't miss this conversation. don't miss this conversation

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small indiana town. it could be very complicated, especially if you are rahul kapoor, he's one of the few indian boys in school. he's not sure how he feels about. that he is a three way she could handshake with his best friend, chelsea, and his beloved grandfather. he's dealing with a lot of anxiety and i that doesn't stop teasing, him even when they are in class together. and most confusing of all, raul can't tell if he wants to be just like his neighbor, justin, emory or if he actually just likes him, you, know likes him. despite those, feelings raul embarks on a journey of self discovery and self, love when his grandfather gives him well-meaning advice. find what you are really good,

it and become the best at it. that is the plot of today's velshi banned book club, called the best at it, by and author and actor, who you might recognize, maulik pancholy. it had -- intended audience of 8 to 12. year old seat new go very far below the surface to find a story that definitely explores mental, health sexuality, and what it means to be a minority. while it may seem ambitious to tackle all three of those topics that, once the end result is heartbreakingly authentic and poignant. it brings true that rolls obsessive tendencies get, worse as he struggles to come to terms with his sexuality. it's also not surprising to learn this book is at least partly semi autobiographical. none of this is to say that the best that it is a heavy or demanding read, part of the book successes that it's readability for young audience. it's funny, it's endearing, and it's especially full of love. rahul is surrounded by love. his best friend, chelsea, his overbearing indian aunties, his

wise and kind grandfather, his unwavering, parents for, example this conversation raul halves after he places fifth in a mathlete's competition that is reiterated again and again. quote, raul, whether you placed first or fifth or 35th or 2005th, he, pauses and looks me right in the, i no matter who you are, your mom and i will always love you. and quote. it's worth noting that the best at it is one of the few books we featured on the velshi banned book club with an indian protagonist, that celebrates indian culture. homemade indian some of, says colorful holy celebrations, and bollywood movie's serve as a backdrop even when rahul struggles with feelings of shame surrounding his culture. the readers window into his tight-knit indian family is never clouded. and surprisingly, the best at it has faced bands in school districts across both florida and texas, for his portrayal of a gay young man of color. surprise surprise. , well velshi banned book club embers know that lgbtq stories have faced a disproportionately

high number of bands when compared to other literature, this, attack feels even more absurd than usual and unabashedly homophobic. this book does not contain a single controversial moment. it is simply, put age-appropriate, well written, and well worth the read. after a quick, break i am joined by the author maulik maulik pancholy to discuss his award winning debut novel. winning debut nove winning debut nove l. to help prevent bleeding gums. try saying 'hello gumwash' with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% plaque bacteria. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. meet the team all using chase to keep up with their finances. smart bankers. convenient tools. boom. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough

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i need a mallet or something, let's get to the days meeting of the velshi banned book club, i'm joined by the actor and author, maulik pancholy to talk about his award winning debut novel, today's banned book club feature, the best at it. thank you for being with us. you've had a novel novel out since the. since you are as surprised as everybody, else because the best at it is not controversial. >> no, in fact, it's interesting because in the

writing of this book i talked with my editor about the fact that, for this age group, teachers and librarians are the gatekeepers of these kinds of. hooks you right to a sensibility that they're gonna have to put it in the classroom, they're gonna be aware of. that that kid in the best at it, he is 12, he is beginning to develop a crush on another couldn't his, glass which you so eloquently spoke, about justin, his next door neighbor. but it's an awareness, and for him it's also a complicated realization that he doesn't know what this feeling is. there is a sense of, do i want to be like justin? do i just admire justin? but then why can't i stop staring at his biceps? so for me that is a conversation point around something the kids do, but it's not controversial. these kids are not engaging in any kind of sexual behavior, for example, it is a super innocent read. and yet, it speaks to a lot of the feelings that i was going through in middle school when i go on book tours and i visit middle schools. it's a lot of the things that

kids today are experiencing. and often they don't get to see in a book. or don't have the language to talk about. so that's why i wrote this, book to give 12 year old language that took me, by the way, into my twenties to be able to talk. about >> what does that? do if you are arguing with somebody who says i don't want my kid getting ideas. whether they are attracted to their neighbor or their friend. what is the opposite of? that what is the advantage of normalizing, or letting people know that the things they think are not subject to censorship in criticism, their actual thoughts that can be examined. >> i hate to be an instagram appear, but i can tell you i read thousands of books about straight kids that and i didn't end up straight. so that's the opposite side of. it and the idea that a kid would see something in a book and change their inherent identity because of it just isn't true. on the other, hand i think giving the kid the opportunity to say, that is something i'm

experiencing, that i don't know how to process, but now i don't feel so alone in the world, that feels incredibly important to me. by the, way we know that when kids feel alone, when they don't see themselves, it leads to all sorts of mental health issues, not doing well in, school the idea that in this book the kid goes off on a journey to prove that he is the best at something. because he thinks he needs to be better than everybody else just to be liked. and you know, that is a semi autobiographical, but i would say a very true experience that i had. i think a lot of lgbtq folks have this idea that we have to be overachievers because we're lacking in some other area. and i think that's what we want to take away. we want kids know that you -- the quote from you read from the, dad it's one of my favorite, you are indeed perfect just the way you are. >> he wrote something in here that reminds me of my, youth rahul is sharing a hotel room with one of the few indian boys, one of them, athletes joe's mom

packed him indian snack into moses, and fraud burn in ships, and offer some to rahul. just as, don't be shy. oh wait, do not like indian food? he shoots me a funny look. to even know what these things are? >> of course i do, really? >> yeah, why wouldn't i? >> i don't know, you don't seem very indian. >> what does that mean, i asked? >> not sure why i feel slightly offended. >> i mean, every kid has gone through. this every kid who doesn't have white skin or has parents from another place has gone through this, why can't i just have one -- that look like everybody? else this is an identity question. it's not a lunch question. it's not a stark question. >> yeah, for me, the most important thing about that scene is it reflects the experience that i had, and you had growing, up the need to erase my own identity felt so strong, that i feel like when i would meet people who would just move here from india, there would be a sense of, like you're so american. you are celebrating this proximity to whiteness instead of celebrating this identity of who you are. and by the, way we're talking

about this on the, break but why do people want to update -- than these kinds of? books i think it's because of that celebration of identity. that somehow feels threatening, whereas if we all sort of behaves in this proximity to, whiteness people would just be like, okay. that's cool. they're not threatening anything. you're not rocking any. boats >> what i love about my writing, what you read, there was that he feels slightly offended. because that's the rub. the rob is, like this is an identity that i want to, own it just feels dangerous to own it. >> it's something about mental health in kids. i want to talk about the description you used for mental health the best at, it the reader first seize rahul into the thoughts and compulsions, when he checks his backpack to make sure that the front door is. locked rahul stress increases at his dad suggesting he sees a therapist. this is very unusual. , quote everybody's brain is, different but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. rahul, it could help you understand why you're doing it and help you learn to make it

better. i swallow, my body relaxes, just knowing that someone might understand that i might not be the only person in the world who feels this way. this is a universal. it's becoming increasingly more prevalent amongst kids. it's got nothing to do with being indian or an immigrant, it has to do with feeling heard as a kid. >> yeah, listen, i put we rahul 's a sense of compulsive behaviors into the, but because it's something i struggled. with a 12-year-old every night before bed i would check every door, lock, every window, in the house, it took me a half an hour. and i was really really good at hiding. it in fact, i don't think my parents had any idea at the time. >> you are casually walking around the house? >> yeah, and by the, way that was part of the anxiety. i hope nobody catches, me i hope nobody catches me. so i gave him that because i feel like this book is so much about the things that we're not talking about that need to be talked about. i think mental health around young people is a huge thing. when i visit schools now,

teachers often say, you know, somewhat of what he just said, it's on the rise,. i don't study this, so i don't know if that's because mental health issues are on the, rise or kids or more open about, it or teachers are more aware, but what i do here consistently is we are still not really talking about it. so the thing where the dad of persimmon opportunity to see a therapist, i love that scene in the book because the dad is not good at that conversation. there's a lot of fidgeting, there's a lot of -- i'm not sure how to talk to you. but why i think it's important is because it's important how the conversation, even if you're not sure how it's gonna go. and i think that is something that hopefully parents also will get out of this. book >> you also cover bullying. brandt is the bully in the book. and the bullying is actually tied to continually trying to out rahul as gay. >> we write. boeing is something i experienced as a kid. i now am the chair and

cofounder of an asian american pacific islander enabling nonprofit called act to change. part of what i think happens with kids around identity, especially in middle, school is the needs to be accepted. they need to fit in. so the bully, the voice telling you, you know what? you're not gonna fit, in just for being, you that is i think rahul it's drive. in a way, the brand, character i wanted to give him nuance. i learned through anti-bullying work that we don't like to label kids as bullies because we want to give them the opportunity to change. and that behavior is learn from somewhere. by the way, maybe parents who want to ban books. but that behavior is learn from some. where brett has his own struggles in this book with an overbearing, father the need to succeed himself. there is a moment towards the end of the book where we see brand really freak out at the support that raul is getting. and i think that is because he's aware that this world order is shifting.

and of course it's middle great terms, but oh, like, maybe this thing i was holding on to is not actually the thing to hold onto anymore. and that feels terrifying to him. >> i want people to, read it i'm not gonna get away, but there is a big part here about rahul coming out to his parents. and i think it's gonna be helpful to all parents. thanks for taking some time to talk to us about. it thanks for the. books and of course, this is a book, maulik pancholy is an actor and author, he's the subject of today's velshi banned book club. feature, the best at it, it's his debut. novel catch me back here tomorrow 10 am to noon eastern. velshi has available as a podcast in which i wear a. best -- stay right here, alex witt reports right after a quick break. t after a quic break. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch.

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from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. developing this, our a new vow from donald trump to remain in the 2024 presidential race, despite three more criminal charges. filed against him in the classified documents case. trump attending iowa's first big gathering of republican candidates, sharing the stage with a dozen primary rivals, just hours earlier, the former president made clear he is staying