room, one was the minority leader from the opposing minority, obviously, and the other two had longer ten years and regarded as close to this figure. so there were all these signs that she was at a minimum friendly -- >> and yet, kate, sorry to jump. and we are out of time. and . good evening, mehdi, my friend. much appreciated. thank you for joining us at home this evening. good to have you here tonight. all right, here it is. you ready? in late december phillip johnson and alan blackburn summoned a

reporter from "the new york herald tribune, called them adventurers with an intellectual overlay. they were calling it the national party and they were lighting out for louisiana the very next day to try to sign on huey long as their new party. and they showed him the slogan, "the need is for one party." and they also showed him the snazzy new pennants they had designed, blazoned with aerodynamic flying-wedge emblems, which they would be mounting on johnson's automobile. and they also laid out their new party's platform, which

consisted of its enity of direct action and loyalty. they wasn't nothing but courage and loyalty, the kind that john dillinger and al capone required. and, quote, mr. johnson favored a submachine gun, the "herald tribune" reported but mr. blackburn preferred one of the larger type of pistols. the next day the pair of 20somethings attached their flying-wedge felt pennants to the fenders of johnson's barronial 12-cylinder packard.

>> what that is from, i wrote a book. we just got the confirmed publication date and we just got my first look at the cover. this is what it looks like. the book is called "pre-quel, an american fight against fascism." it comes out october 17th. i have been killing myself getting it done, which is why i look this way. but it is done. and this is the very first announcement i have been able to make about it. writing, i find, is the absolute hardest thing in the world. i do think of the books i have written, i wrote "drift" which was the military and politics in the military and "blowout" which was about russia, "bag man" about the spiro agnew story.

and this is the one i feel most compelled to right. i'll tell you more about it as we get closer to the publication date. i am going to do some kind of book tour this fall when it comes out. not like a giant book tour but somewhere between a half dozen or dozen cities. so if you have any desire to see me in person, i'll let you know where i'm going to be. again, that's this fall. and if you think you might want to read the book, like i said, it comes out october 17th but today is the day, as of today you can preorder it so that you get it the day it comes out, which is why i wanted to tell you about it today because today is the first day for preorders. today is the first day you can put in a preorder. the title is "pre-quel." you can order it on line as of right now on msnbc.com/prequel.

point of personal privilege over. now you know why i've looked like i've been run over by a bus. writing is impossible and i'm really into this book. i hope people like it and really get something out it have. it was really important to me and anyway. that's it. announcement over. october 17th, msnbc.com/prequel. where we start tonight is not in 1923 in new york city with rich, young fascists trying to start their own pro-dictator american political party and designing pennants to go on their cars to advertise it. where we start today in our current day in the great state of minnesota where a reporter to are the conservative national review magazine

recently wrote, quote, for the price of a new x-box game, you, too, can own your very own state party. and it turns out that is sort of true. madden nfl 23 for xbox 1 is $ a 59.99. farming simulator 2. "star wars: jedi" is $54. "national review" is right. you are right where what it takes to buy out all the cash assets of the state republican party of minnesota, recently reporting that its bank accounts are currently flush with a grand total of $53.81. so that is $1.32 more than the

"star wars" game costs. with you for farm simulators, you could cash in all the cash assets of the minnesota republican party and with that money you could get the $49.99 farmer simulator game and have change. so you could buy some cheetohs, not the big bag, not the party size but a pretty good size one, especially if it was on sale. why does the republican party of the state of minnesota have less than $60 in its bank account? i do not know but the "daily beast" was first to report it. the details only get worse from there. in addition to having less than 60 bucks to its name, the republican party of minnesota also reportedly has over $330,000 in debt, which it needs to pay off, which it will not be able to pay off with less than

60 bucks cash in its bank account so that does not seem good. it also turns out it's not an isolated story. the same sort of thing or at least a variation on this thing is happening in a whole bunch of keefe states for republicans right now. in colorado, the "colorado sun" was first to report that state's republican party was so broke that it has stopped paying its employees and that it is unable to pay rent on its office space. the deputy chief of the colorado house republican party told "the colorado sun" that the colorado republican party is bankrupt. i should also tell you the colorado republican party is planning to vote next week to simply cancel the 2024 republican primary in colorado. if you don't have enough money to pay your rent or your staffers and you're bankrupt, i guess something's got to go, why

not your basic function as a party. in arizona the messenger news outlet was first to report that arizona's state republican party reported in its federal election filings that it has only about $23,000 in the bank in total. and that might be enough to trade for a new hyundai elantra, but only as long as you don't want one with cruise control. with all the trouble of the arizona party being that broke, the highest profile election denier politician arizona republican party's failed gubernatorial candidate, carrie lake, she's heading soon to another state, to michigan, to help them raise some money. you'd think she might be able to help them raise money at home but, no, she's going there to help them raise some money. that said, maybe it's needed

help. in michigan, they got trouble, too. the michigan state republican party is broke as well. it reported $93,000 total in their bank accounts. and that comes in michigan as 16 michigan republicans, including the former state party co-chair, are now facing multiple felony charges for having submitted themselves as forged elector, as michigan electors in the presidential race in 2020, even though they really weren't because joe biden won that state, not donald trump. we don't yet know if other people who participated in the fake elector scheme for trump and other states are going to be charged as well the way they've been charged in michigan, but georgia's one of the states where that is a possibility. in georgia we know that a bunch of republicans who participated in the fake elector scheme, they received target letters from the prosecutor's office in that state as she investigates

various efforts to throw out georgia's election results and falsely proclaim trump the winner. the "atlanta journal constitution" was first to report this is also turning out to be an expensive prospect for the state republican party in georgia. georgia state republican party agreed to pay the legal bills for those fake electors and in so doing, georgia state republican party saddled themselves with a remarkable financial burden already in the first half of this year, the party spent like over a half million dollars on this. it spent five times what it spent on all the party's annual legal expenses combined as recently as 2021 and we're only halfway through the year thus far. in the first half of 2023, they've spent five times what they spent on all legal expenses for everything as recently as 2021 and that was for the whole year. that's a lot of states with a lot of financial drama. and these are not state republican parties in like,

forgive me, sort of obscure states where things are never going to be contested. minnesota, colorado, arizona, michigan, georgia, that's like the table of contents where republicans want to show what they can do in this next election cycle and the one after that. but all of them in all those states, they're broke or they're spending themselves into oblivion. i started by saying that the national review compared the assets of the minnesota state republican party to the price of a single x-box game. that same conservative publication recently looked at this dire financial picture in multiple states and said this, quote, if republicans are disappointed with the results of the 2024 elections for the fourth straight cycle mind you, a key factor will be the replacement of competent, boring, regular state party officials with quite exciting blustering nut jobs who have little or no interest in the

basics of successfully managing the state party or helping gop candidates win elections. quite exciting blustering nut jobs. couldn't have said it better myself. and here's another piece of what i think is that same puzzle. morning consult recently did a public approval poll in all 50 states. and it was public approval polling in all 50 states about the governors of all 50 states. and this generated a bunch of local headlines, state headlines that you'd expect. most of those headlines were about the relative standing of the most and least popular governors in the country, for governors up for reelection, this morning consult polling helped various local publications get a handle on whether the governor's approval rating was going up or down with voters as they tried to hold on to their seat next year. that kind of local interest in

state interest. here's my interest. look at the states overall. there is one big overarching story here, which is that all of the governors are popular. all of them in all 50 states. there is not a single governor in any state in the country right now who has a higher disapproval than approval rating. not a single governor in the entire country is underwater. they're all more positively viewed by their constituents than they are negatively viewed. and again, you can maybe tell a story of local interest about any one governor who finds himself or herself in that position, but when it's all 50 governors in that position, that's a bigger story. that's a national story hiding in plain sight, which is that americans, broadly, are not that unhappy with how things are going run right now.

and, yes, you ask people about national political figures and national political institutions and americans say, like, basically broadly, americans say oh, yeah, i hate them. i hate the congress, i hate the supreme court, i don't like the president. honestly americans, unless they're kind of culty about it, they don't like any of the other candidates who want to run against the president either. if you ask about how things are going governance-wise, people are like i'm sure things are absolutely terrible. but if you can about something that doesn't have national political conversation around it, if you ask how are things actually running government-wise, as you see it, more or less the answer in every state in the country is, yeah, things are okay. everybody's pretty happy. everybody's at least more happy than not in all 50 states. every single governor in the country is above water. and if you put a political

science lens on that so that you stop trying to parse that in terms of the individual performance of each of those 50 governors, if you put a political science lens on that, it basically means if you strip away nationalized partisan political combat, nationalized partisan tribalism, the fundamentals in the country as viewed by american people are pretty good and the fundamentals are almost always about the economy. so, yeah, you look at that chart of every governor in america being above water, maybe that has something to do with beating all expectations economic growth and personal income rising and inflation flattening out and an infrastructure surge and record job growth and the lowest sustained unemployment we have had in decades. and no one apparently wants to credit joe biden and the biden administration for that. so they credit their governor.

they credit the governor in each of the 50 states. but that's okay. you know, we can read. we know basic political science. we also know basic polling. where if the country really was over president joe biden and really wanted him out of there and everybody was really ready for somebody new, then the opposing party, republicans, would be falling all over themselves to ride that train, right? to become one of the immensely popular candidates ready to take on this unpopular president, joe biden, who everybody agrees is doing such a bad job, right? that is not what's happening. the newest the "new york times" siena college poll out today shows this. former president donald trump with 54% of the vote, his nearest rival at 17% and not a single other candidate topping 3%. now, again, looking at this in political science terms, in general when you've got only two

people polling above 3%, you're supposed to call that a two-man race. but when one of those two men holds a 37-point lead over the other one, what you're looking at is not a two-man race. what you are looking at is not a race at all. this is a romp. according to the "new york times" analysis of its own poll today, quote, in the half century of modern presidential primaries, no candidate who led his or her nearest rival by at least 20 points at this stage has ever lost a nomination. trump isn't leading by 20 points, he's leading by nearly double that, by 37 points. and it's not a matter of the opposition being split. even if all the not-trump candidates had percentages combined, you'd still have trump at 54 and everybody else at 30%. he'd stilling leading by 20%. they asked about the guy polling second to trump.

they say imagine you didn't even have the choice of any of the other candidates who are all at 1, 2, 3%. imagine you could only choose between the number one and number two guys in this poll, you could only choose between trump and desantis. you would expect desantis to pick up all the other non-trump candidate votes, you'd have that 54-30, that 24-point margin between them. but, no, desantis can't even do that. when asked in a hypothetical matchup between trump and desantis, they say trump leads desantis by 31 points. 62 to 31. he doubles him, laps him. new florida university polling shows desantis would lose to trump in florida by 17 points. so at least so far, i mean, things might change but at least so far on the republican side, hey republican party, how you

doing, it's turning out to not be a race at all. which means the only republican who appears to have any shot at all at running against president biden is the former guy, who as chris christie pointed out this weekend is likely to be out on bail in four different jurisdictions at the time of the first presidential debate, if they have one given these are the contours of the republican presidential primary. the only person who the republican party appears capable of putting up to run against joe biden is someone who is likely to be out on bail in as many as four different jurisdictions by the time the first republican debate happens. it's someone who is running for the presidency as a hail mary to dismantle the american legal system and constitutional structure and thereby keep himself out of prison. this is not the only candidate the republicans should be able to credibly field in this

election against joe biden if they really think that president biden is beatable. but that's where we are. with the state republican parties in five more or less crucial states either in dire financial straits or crippling financial compliments with people charged with trump-related crime or just bankrupt. at a california state republican meeting this weekend, the "l.a. times" reports that police had to be called in to avert fist fights about two republican factions. what's adorable is the nature of the night. the california republican party tried to change the rules to benefit trump. trump's campaign told the california republican party to change the rules of its

primaries so trump would be guaranteed to get every single delegate in california. some of the even more radical trump supporters in that party convince themselves that a nefarious scheme must be afoot to trick them. that's what they want you to think! so they put on their tin foil halts and made their little signs about the illuminati or whatever and marched on the meeting. and fights broke out. and what did they say? quite exciting, blustering nut jobs. fist fights among the republican faithful in another state only because they are so qanon, they

don't even know when they get what they want. and an accused felon promising to destroy the country as the only challenger they're able to put forward to run against president biden. in this challenging time for one of our two supposedly governing parties, where is this all landing? where is this all going? where it has been landing or where it seems like it's going to keep landing is in culture war politics, which so far is going great for them. republicans, for example, continuing to rail against the "barbie" movie, which has now taken in $775 million and counting, just a global juggernaut that people absolutely love, which republicans say you are wrong to like! ron desantis in florida trying his hand at a winning national

political message by campaigning now on the need to look at the bright side of slavery. in arkansas this weekend, a federal judge having to step in to stop arkansas republican governor sarah huckabee sanders' plan to stop arresting librarians and people who work at book stores for the grave crime of looking at and selling people books. and using their powers to see unredacted medical records. this has earned a major lawsuit against the attorney general in tennessee as of last week. today brought another lawsuit against the attorney general in alabama who says if you are an alabama residents, he wants to get your private medical records, even if you go to another state to get health care because he might want to prosecute you for the health care you get in another state so

he wants to check out your private medical records to see what you are doing. or he might want to prosecute your friends or moms for you aiding and abetting you to go to nor state. in alaska the attorney general says he wants your private medical records to see what kind of private health care you're getting even out of alaska. "quote, why does alaska attorney general treg taylor think your health care is his business"? and how the alaska a.g.'s letter replays the mistakes that led to the civil war." >> going after gay people and

transgender and black people and going after civil rights history and stealing people's private medical records to investigate what kind of health care they're getting. the republican party is doing their best to show us what they want for the country. and the stuff that they are doing is also deeply, deeply unpopular. even angering. and we've got one prime and very pressing example of that coming up on tonight's show. we've got lots more to come tonight. busy night. stay with us. for softer clothese gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. ♪♪ when you have chronic kidney disease... there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here.

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in the great state of ohio, republicans there have passed what's effectively a full ban on abortion. it's what's called a six-week ban and ohio residents don't like that. there is a ballot measure set for this november that would undo the republican abortion ban and protect abortion in that state. that ballot measure is leading right now by more than 25 points. and among independent women, women not registered in either party, the pro-abortion rights measure in a would undo the republican abortion ban, it's got 85% support among independent women. and so ohio republicans have just filed a lawsuit to try to keep that measure off the ballot, to keep ohio residents from being allowed to vote on it. and next week, a week from tomorrow, ohio republicans will

try to change the rules so something like that can't pass with a simple majority. they're trying to change the rules so you'd need a big super majority to pass something like that. they're only trying to change those rules because they know they will lose when ohio votes on what they are doing. one of the things going on in american politics nationally and at the state level is between trump at the top of the republican party and this culture war stuff really failing for republicans politically, republicans really have deep political challenges all over the country. ohio is an exemplar here, keeping people from voting against you because you know they will vote against you if you let them is both a sign of how bad things are and a sign of how they're planning to fight, how they're planning to contest power. when people broadly just do not want what they are selling. joining us now is david pepper, the former chair of the ohio

democratic party. he's written two books including "labratories of autocracy." >> what should people understand about what's happening in ohio about this republican ban, the vote that's going to overturn it and the vote that's going to happen next week? >> this is an all-out battle for ohio. the issue is sort of the giveaway of what their broader am mo is. it's deeply unpopular. they know that. it shapes their entire battle,

whether it's gerrymandering every, suppressing the votes of the majority or in this case just changing the rules mid stream. they know that their views are unpopular, kansas was sort of a bat signal that these statehouses are way beyond their state people when it comes to their views and in this case it's a perfect example, they just want to change the rules. in this case they are scheduling an election next week on a day that they made illegal to have an election. so they break their own rules to rig the rules against majority rule. it really shows you what they're doing nationally. ohio is just the recent test case of what they want to get away with. >> do people in ohio get that dynamic? i mean, i ask because as you mentioned, there's this vote next week which is about changing the rules, you have to have a super majority to pass something like this abortion rights measure, which previously would have within a 50% vote and

you would have won it that way. i read some descriptions about local election officials about people turning out for early voting. they seem to indicate that people in ohio are turning out in unusually large numbers because they seem angered by this effort to change the rules. you hold an election in august because you're hoping not many people will show up. seems like ohio residents will show up next week. >> yeah. one, they had to get it in front of the november one. secondly, they are frustrated because these are the same people who literally violated the ohio constitution to gerrymander themselves into the constitution and they were hoping in this case that turnout would be low enough that they could scare their own voters through ridiculous ads so they show up and have an artificial majority only on august 8th. the good news is i think people are seeing it, we're seeing that in the polls, we're seeing that early vote.

but like most political folks, take nothing for granted. we've got a week to get every ballot that's out in and then to show up on august 8th and not allow them to win on this sneak attack against ohio democracy. >> david pepper, former chair of the ohio democratic party, now a keen observer of those state politics, thanks for being here. keep us apprised over the next week. i think that vote is going to be really nationally important. thank you. >> absolutely. will do. >> much more ahead here tonight. stay with us. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family

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just within this last hour we've gotten a new filing from former president trump's political fund-raising group detailing its spending for the first half of this year. as expected it shows payments of tens of millions of dollars in legal fees for the former president and his advisers and allies. that massive expenditures on lawyers. trump is having to spend that money basically because he enjoys setting fire to it. i say it because he keeps doing ridiculous things with lawyers. for example, his long shot bid to get his hush money criminal case in new york transferred into federal court, that was slapped down decisively earlier this month. now he is nevertheless appealing

that ruling, spending a whole bunch more money on a case that is really never going to go his way. and he's having his attorneying attorneys go to court against the previously filed racketeering lawsuit against hillary clinton. a federal judge not only dismissed this case. the judge ordered trump and his lawyer to pay a million dollars in sanctions for even bringing something this ridiculous in the first place. here trump goes demanding his lawyers go back into court and file that one again. and he had his laugh-out-loud defamation suit against cnn. and the georgia judge's order referenced rumple stillskin. tens of millions of dollars in

legal fees well spent. but the other serious question raised about all the trump money is what it means about the investigation surrounding it, that he's paying the legal bills of co-defendants and some witnesses and potential co-defendants and witnesses in some of these cases. we've seen him it to do it before to troubling effect. one of the things left hanging from the january 6th investigation in congress was a potential witness tampering incident that the investigation exposed. the committee's star witness, cassidy hutchinson, you may remember she got a phone call ahead of her deposition with the january 6th investigation and she got a call that trump's staff said she knew she was loyal and cassidy hutchinson

says that that trump-funded lawyer told her, quote, the less you remember the better. eventually she got herself a new lawyer who want on the payroll of the trump campaign. but that lawyer trying to influence the testimony of his purported client now seems quite relevant again. there are now two trump employees charged along with their boss in the classified documents case, the federal criminal case in florida. lawyers for both those men are being paid by legal -- excuse me, political entities associated with trump. that raises the question are they working in the interests of their clients or in trump's interest? did the trump lawyer who tried to influence cassidy hutchinson's testimony face any consequences to are -- for that?

what did they learn when they went up against this kind of potential witness tampering before? luckily we have the former lead investigator for the congressional investigates into january 6th. thank you for being with us. >> thanks for the invitation, rachel. >> i just wanted to ask you about this hanging thread from the january 6th investigation, which does feel like it's got some resonance with what's going on now. i know they made criminal referrals for trump and john eastman, and including the lawyer representing cassidy hutchinson. he sued the committee for suggesting he tried to wrongly influence his client. can you tell us how that all ended up. >> sure. you mentioned one thread. there are actually two threads significant here. the first thread is how the money was raised in the first place. so as the select committee

showed, rachel, the trump campaign very quickly pivoted to a massive fund raising operation and essentially peddling election lies. stop the steal became a cash machine and raised about $250 million between the election and president biden's inauguration. that went into the save america pact, which we saw as the entity that was paying the fees of witnesses before the select committee. the people that gave money to this -- in this effort were told it was going to the election defense fund, it was going to sort of fuel and pay for litigation or other efforts to reverse the result of the election. it did not go to any such thing. there was no election defense fund. it went to save america pact. the first thread is essentially the lies and the grift that the

trump folks perpetuated and that money goes to pay the legal fees of more than a dozen witnesses, not just cassidy hutchinson but others. a lot of those witnesses did not remember very salient things and important conversations that others said they were present for. only cassidy suggested directly she was coached to lie. she indicated her first trump-funded lawyer essentially encouraged her to hold information back and said you don't need to tell them about that, they don't know what you don't know. but we had the suspicion and we articulate this in our report that a lot of the trump-funded lawyers essentially were coaching witnesses to obscure key facts. it seems to be a pattern and it was one that definitely impacted our investigation. >> coaching a witness to lie, coaching a witness to pretend to forget things they don't forget

and obscure the facts is a serious matter for a lawyer. lawyers are obviously not supposed to do that. that's potentially a way to get in trouble if you're a lawyer for a lot of different reasons. but in terms of witnesses who are considering their options given that pattern that you just described, what advice would you give right now to somebody who's wrapped up in any of these investigations who is currently being represented by a trump-backed lawyer? especially somebody who might lack the resources to get a good lawyer on their own, should they be wary? >> yeah, look, the ethical rules allow for the third-party payment of legal fees. that's not against the rules. the lawyer who is being paid by a third party has to be loyal solely to the client, not to the payor of fees. i'd want to be sure my lawyer was acting in my best interest, was not sharing information or

giving me advice for anything other than my best interest. anybody needs to be clear the duty of loyalty is given to them and those individuals who are accepting the generosity of the legal fees ought to be asking is this lawyer looking out for me and only me or is there some other agenda? >> very clarifying. mr. heaphy, this can sound technical. it's clear and a little alarming. thanks for your time tonight,shire. >> thanks, rachel. >> i'll be right back. stay with us.

so here's an update for you, sort of a provocative one. you may remember that earlier this year in a country called uganda, they passed a kill the gays law, a law that, among other things, imposes the death penalty for something called aggravated homosexuality. when that was signed the biden administration was revolted, they very much came out against it and said they would reevaluate how the u.s. gauges with them as a result of it. the way our country gauges is a respected program, it's a huge

initiative to fight aids. it's one of the good thing that the united states has ever done in african. but in may, in light of the new law with the death penalty for being gay, the biden administration said it would reassess its funding of that program. it has not played out that way. so far the white house has made no changes. a senior administration official said in a statement that for now the program will continue as it and they will reassess on an on going basis the ability to deliver the pepfar funding. the people who support pepfar and have been champions of it who work with african human rights groups, they're calling on the biden administration to change things, to change the way they provide this funding. this is hundreds of millions of dollars in this one program each year. it's a ton of money. and if nothing changes, that funding will go specifically to officials who have led and

championed this new law which promotes the extermination of gay people in africa, which the biden administration has said it is furious about. this also comes at a time when this may spread beyond uganda. kenya and tanzania and other countries are looking to adopt similar kill the gays laws targeting their countries' lgbtq citizens. uganda passed legislation similar to this in 2014. it was met with massive resistance within the country itself but also from the obama administration at the time and under pressure from the obama administration at the time, uganda back in 2014 backed down. this time uganda is going ahead and they think the biden administration is going to let them and that they're going to keep getting all the assistance they've ever had from the united states with no changes and no strings attached. the biden administration said it would reassess this

relationship. so far they're not. what will the consequences be, if any, this time around? will they keep their word? confounding situation here. watch this space. that's why herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you don't. our sulfate-free collections smell incredible... ♪ and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. ♪ herbal essences i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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