right now, special coverage with the third arraignment of donald trump just hours away. lines and heavy security already this morning at the courthouse in washington. the 45th president set to appear at 4:00 p.m. this afternoon. >> ahead this hour, what to expect as trump walks through the courthouse doors and his new demand to move the trial out of d.c. plus, a complicated choice facing unindicted coconspirators rudy giuliani. could they flip on the former president? >> later, trump verses his veep. mike pence doubling down amid their growing clash. >> sadly, the president was

surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear. ultimately, continued to demand that i choose him over the constitution. >> good morning. thank you for being with us, it's 10:00 eastern in our nation's capital. i'm ana cabrera along with jose diaz-balart for this special coverage of the third arraignment of donald trump. >> here in washington, d.c., a growing sense of anticipation ahead of the former president's appearance at 4:00 p.m. eastern. lines started building outside the courthouse overnight. take a look at these pictures. the morning, however, the intense security continues. barricades outside the court. officers with long guns on the grounds. >> we expect the former president to travel here from bedminster, new jersey, in just

a few hours. we know he'll be fingerprinted and go before the judge. garrett haake is outside that d.c. courthouse. dasha burns is in new jersey where trump is currently staying and also with us is legal analyst dave aronberg, and here with us in d.c. is shan wu, a former federal prosecutor. garrett, what's happening on the ground? walk us through what we can expect at 4:00 p.m. eastern today when trump is arraigned. >> reporter: we will see much of the former president's journey to and from d.c. he's traveling with reporters and the campaign has learned it's pretty good for their online fund-raising when people are watching what's going on with his arraignments. there's nearly $4 million in the first one. we'll see quite a bit of the process surrounding his arrival and departure to the courthouse. once he's inside, we'll be privy to frustratingly little in this courthouse. cameras are not allowed inside federal court. we expect the former president

to be processed before his arraignment. he'll be fingerprinted but no mugshot taken, the same procedure followed in miami, and then he'll appear for this arraignment hearing, which should be short. he's liable to give his not guilty plea. it's not clear whether the defense team will make any other motions or the prosecution team could make any motions. if they don't, it could be a fairly short process. we expect we'll hear from the president. he's made his legal problems such a key part of his political apparatus, coming in and out for a quick courthouse appearance today seems likely unlikely. >> he's expected to travel this afternoon to d.c. what do we know about trump's mind set and his inner circle ahead of today's court appearance? >> reporter: the picture that sources have painted for nbc news of trump and his inner circle here at bedminster over the last couple days is largely

one of nonchalance, of a new reality for trump, this now being his third indictment. attitude of a mix of resignation and defiance, in the hours leading up to the indictment, he was aware of it. sources say that he was expecting it. so this was not a shock. this was something that he sort of scooped the justice department on, scooped the news cycle on, even. going out in front of the news on his own social media platform. and in the hours leading up to it, he was golfing. he chatting with folks with the golf course. nbc news confirming from sources even meeting a dinner with fox news executives who according to "the new york times" were lobbying him to come to the debate. so this has a different flavor, according to his allies, from some of the last indictments. and one ally even saying that three indictments, four

indictments, is better than just one for trump because as more of these legal problems come down the pike, the details get lost in the greater number. and people just focus more so on that word, weaponization, that we have been hearing not only from trump but also from his rivals like ron desantis on the campaign trail. so he's able to more so easily rally that base against this bigger system that's out to get him, that's out to get his allies and his supporters, guys. >> all right, we'll let you continue to work on your sourcing and gathering more information. stay close and come back as you have new reporting. dave, the former president, he's been on truth social nonstop in the past few days. this morning, he's calling for a change of venue in the case, suggesting, these are his words, perhaps the, quote, politically unbiased state, west virginia. so clearly, he's implying he can't get a fair trial in d.c.

what's the legal threshold for a change of venue request? >> yeah, he's got to show he can't get a fair trial in washington, d.c. or that the judge is biased against him. but just because the judge ruled against him previously doesn't mean that she's going to be removed from the case. quite the opposite. she's a well respected judge and there's no reason to move this out of washington, d.c. there's no question to west virginia other than it would give donald trump in his mind some home field advantage. he won west virginia in the last election by 40 points. in washington, d.c., he got only 5% of the vote. you can see why he wants this thing moved. republicans think the washington, d.c. jury pool are a bunch of communist, godless antifa members. so that's their perception. the reality is far different. january 6th defendants have done poorly in washington, d.c. that's the reality and donald trump knows that. >> do you feel confident he can

get a good jury pool there that would be fair and wouldn't offer the opportunity to appeal on those grounds? >> it's not whether people have knowledge about the case or whether they have got their own opinions. it's whether they can set them aside and be unbiased. i have had high-profile cases in our jurisdiction in palm beach county and we could always find a jury just like they'll be able to find a jury in the red counties where the documents trial is going to be held down here in south florida. it's not whether you know things about the case or whether you have your predilections. it's whether you can set them aside and say you're going to follow the evidence and the law. i know they can get a jury in d.c. that will do just that. >> let me play for you something that trump's former attorney general said. let's listen to this. >> do you think he knew he lost the election? >> do i personally believe that? at first, i wasn't sure, but i have come to believe that he

knew well that he had lost the election. now, that leads me to believe that they were only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this. >> you think jack smith has more? >> oh, yes. i would believe he has a lot more. i think there's a lot more to come, and i think they have a lot more evidence as to president trump's state of mind. >> clearly, barr works very closely with the former president in his time with the administration. what's your reaction to that? >> i think that it's actually not that they have to prove what he truly believed, although evidence he was told that he lost and any reasonable person would believe is very helpful. what they really need to prove is what he did. it's so interesting and important that paragraph one of the indictment says the defendant lost the election. because that's the factual predicate. he lost, and what did he do illegally to overturn that loss? so they're really going to focus

on his actions. they need a state of mind that he deliberately did that action. the whole debate of did he really believe it or not, that's some of trump's defense, trying to argue that he had din something correct versus illegal. >> what is the threshold of proving that? >> the threshold is based on the totality of the circumstances, they'll need to convince the jury that he had the intent to do these conspiratorial actions. that wasn't by accident. he's going to try to blur that with the advice of counsel type of defense. but for trump's defense, they would like to move the debate to, what did he really believe? there's a lot of political appeal, obviously. for him, his political appeal and his legal defense are unusually totally intertwined at the moment. but they don't really have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he truly believed he lost

or didn't. it's enough to show any reasonable person hearing this would have thought they lost, but the key is, he did lose. and these are illegal actions. he's not just challenging in court or just making speeches. he's actively doing things that are illegal to overturn the election. >> interesting because another trump attorney, former trump attorney who represented him during one of his impeachments, ty cobb, addressed this state of mind issue and he straight said, trump is toast. do you agree with that? that's a quote, he is toast. >> imagine your former attorney saying that. i think from these circumstances, it's not easy to believe he didn't know that he had lost. so in that sense, i would agree with ty. but again, i think it's critical for prosecutors not to get kind of lost in the weeds on being too focused on showing what trump believed. very important to show he was told these things because all those people really serve as

prosecution witnesses. because they are giving foundation to the fact he did lose the election and that these things he was doing were not the legal remedies for challenging the election. >> and dave, your thoughts on that? if there is an argument, a legal argument, from trump world that the ex-president really believed that the election was stolen, would you expect him to take the stand come trial? >> that's the trick, jose, that jack smith has trump in. if trump wants to put forward a first amendment defense or reliance of counsel defense, he's going to have to take the stand. you know, that's opens up a whole new set of problems for trump where he could face perjury charges or just face a withering cross-examination that will go poorly for him. trust me, his lawyers don't want him to take the stand. and what shan said, i agree with him. prosecutors shouldn't get too caught up in showing donald trump really knew the election

was legit. there's a process. you go to the courts, you request recounts and audits. he did those things. after he lost in courts in the audits, in the recounts, he then assembled a mob. he worked on this fake electors scheme, according to the indictment, and he tried to pressure local government and doj officials to stop the counting of the votes. all that stuff is illegal, regardless of trump's state of mind. >> all right, dave aronberg and shan wu, always great to have your great legal mind with us to make sense of what's happening and where this case could go. appreciate it. >> we're back in just 60 seconds. when we come back, reaction to this historic indictment from two lawmakers who were in the house chambers as rioters stormed the capitol on january 6th. >> plus, we'll talk with a former january 6th committee official. how this indictment expands on the groundwork they did. and later, after three indictments, should we expect gop voters or any of trump's supporters to change their mind about the former president?

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ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the 45-page indictment of donald trump details the events that culminated with the attack on the capitol. >> inside the capitol, lawmakers were trapped as rioters barreled toward the capitol buildingerse forcing evicuations and lockdowns of both chambers. let's bring in two lawmakers who were in the house chamber on that day. democratic congressman from colorado, jason crow, and democratic congressman from michigan, dan kildee. >> congressman kildee, thank you. it's good city you. you captured video during those scary moments. when you think about that day, what you felt, what was your reaction to this indictment? >> congressman kildee or crow?

>> we can start with you, sir? >> okay, dan is a good friend of mine, and he went through the situation and trauma just like i did. but it was a horrific day. to think about those officers who were brutally beaten, over 100 police officers were brutally beaten. it took severe injuries, several of whom later took their lives because of that trauma. the officer brian sicknick, woo was murdered by that mob, terrible, brutal day. that's really what this is about. when we talk about the politics of this, we talk about the legal procedure, let's not forget the extreme violence that occurred because donald trump incited that mob. let's not forget that justice must be served for those victims, and justice must be served for the american people. the voters who tried to have that election stolen tromthem, deserve justice here too. >> congressman kildee, i spoke with one of actually a couple of the police officers who were there that day who testified before the january 6th house

committee, including officer michael fanone, now a former d.c. metro police officer. he suffered severe injuries on that day, concussion and also a heart attack. it has impacted his life forever. i'm sure it's impacted your life forever. he said experience, his experience with learning of this indictment was like taking a load off, that to him, it re-enforced the old adage, no one is above the law, and provided some proof that the system isn't totally broken. how did it feel to you to learn of this indictment? >> well, it's one more measure of justice. first of all, thank you, jose and ana, for having me on. always good to see my friend jason. we were together in the gallery and left behind on that terrible day. i'll be always grateful to jason for the help he provided me during and after that moment. look, this was traumatic for the country. it was traumatic for many of us

individually. so justice comes in many different forms. holding all of those people who were involved in january 6th responsible literally seeing hundreds of people who came to the capitol with the intent to do great harm to all of us, seeing them now being convicted on a regular basis for their part of this, is one measure of that justice. but it's impossible to imagine not holding the principal architects of that day responsible for their role. having said that, president trump, like every american, should expect two things. one, he should expect the presumption of innocence until proven guilty or innocent. but he should also expect that the laws of the united states apply to him just like they apply to anybody else, including those people that he incited to attack the capitol, many of whom are sitting in a jail cell today. >> congressman crow, i know you're a former army ranger. you took a picture as you were supporting your colleagues and

the congressman was talking about your help on that day. i'm just wondering, what is it that you feel, and it's not about the legal and not about that, just, you know, you have seen and done and gone through so much. that specific day, so traumatic for so many. what do you feel? >> you know, everyone talks about the comparison between combat, i'm a combat veteran, and that day. there really wasn't a comparison. when i went to war, i expected that. that's what i signed on to do. i never in a million years expected to be in a situation where we might have to fight for our lives on the floor of the house in the united states capitol as a congressman in the year 2021. never had i wrapped my brain around that situation. what happened when we realized we were trapped, that that mob surrounded us and were trying to get to us. we all called our families, made

those calls no one wants to make. the minute i hung the phone up, i immediately got back into ranger mode and started to think about what did we need to do to get out of there. running through that checklist of items, were the doors locked? what were the escape routes? were there weapons available? running down that checklist. i also remember telling my colleagues, let's take our pins off. the pin i'm wearing here, because that's what identifies us as members of congress. if they had broken through the door, we didn't want to be easily identifiable. the last thing i thought about was a lot of those rioters on the other side of the door, a lot of them were my fellow veterans. there were a large number of veterans. i have asked myself, how did we get to this point as a country where you have brothers and sisters in arms who served faithfully together, who both raised their right hand and took the oath, in good faith, and served our country. then you fast forward a couple years later and we're so divided that one group is trying to kill the other. this is undoubtedly about donald

trump but about something larger in our country that we need to address and stop. >> on that note, do you feel like the country is any less vulnerable to a january 6th happening again? you see more than 1,000 people face charges, we now see a former president indicted for actions and fomenting that violence or taking that violence and using it to his advantage in some way. and yet, he's fund-raising off it, his support is growing when you look at the 2024 field. so does it have any kind of deterrent effect? >> i think that's a story that's not written yet. that's why it's so important that the legal process plays out the way that legal processes should play out in the united states of america. unless there's accountability, we cannot repair this, we cannot stop it from happening again. that is essential right now.

this process has to play out. there has to be accountability. >> does a conviction have to happen for there to be accountability? >> that's what the evidence needs to show. in the united states, we don't start this process with a predetermined outcome. that's not how the legal process starts. we start the process, we apply the facts and evidence to the law. that's what will happen. that's what needs to happen for us to repair and move forward and to prevent it from happening again. we're not immune. to answer your question, this can happen anywhere. the lesson of january 6th is that we are not immune to any of this. that we're vulnerable to extremism, that our democracy is only as strong as the willingness of americans and individuals to stand up and to fight for it. >> congressman kildee, thinking about what the congressman was saying, yesterday right on the hill, there was buzz with a new threat of potential active shooter near the senate office buildings, u.s. capitol police didn't find any confirmation of a shooter. i kind of want to have your

thoughts on what congressman crow was talking about, how is it that we have gotten to this point? how is it that people with just different points of view decide that those different points of view are worth actually killing each other for? how do we get to this? i know you have spoken about your own struggles with ptsd after the riot here. how much of a trigger was this alert for you? >> well, when that alert came across my phone yesterday, i'm sure jason had the same reaction. it was like, oh, no. it was very much a case of taking it right back to that day that jason and i experienced together. but i do have to -- it's traumatic and trirging for sure. i do have to comment on one thing. the notion that we have come to this place, as you said, how have we arrived at this place? we have to all look at our role in that. the thing that is most bothersome to me in this moment is that while the framers of the

constitution imagined a rogue president at some point in time, i mean, look at the safeguards they included in the constitution to protect against a president drunk with power, what they did not imagine, i don't believe, is that the majority of one particular political party knowing the falsehoods that that individual is acting upon, knowing all of the nefarious behavior he has engaged in, still continue to explain it away as if it's some sort of exercise in free speech. i don't think the framers imagined that. i don't think they imagined that kevin mccarthy making excuses for the behavior that in the moment that jason and i experienced, in the hour or two afterward, expressed a moment of truth when he held president trump responsible, as mitch mcconnell did. so we have a bigger challenge than just dealing with the terrible behavior of a single individual. we have a whole permission structure, and the name of

political advantage that one political party is engaging in. that is really dangerous. >> congressman dan kildee, congressman jason crow, thank you for taking time for us today. up next, we know who some of the unindicted coconspirators listed in the indictment likely are, rudy giuliani, sidney powell, could they face criminal charges as well? >> you're watching special coverage of the president's third arraignment. t. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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welcome back to our special coverage, as donald trump faces his third federal indictment, arraignment today. there are six coconspirators listed in donald trump's indictment. nbc news has identified who five of them appear to be, and there is some swirling speculation about the idebty of the sixth. >> none currently face criminal charges themselves but could they? we want to bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian who is outside the courthouse. what more do we know about who they are and what we should be expected a far as any charges? >> great to be with you. these five unindicted coconspirators are all lawyers and all key players in the campaign to delay the lawful

transfer of power. rudy giuliani and sidney powell obviously were in various courthouses around the country pressing what we now know were bogus claims of fraud. they're both subject to legal discipline as a result. giuliani's legal license to practice law has been suspended in d.c. and new york. john eastman and cheesebro were the head of the plan to put forward fosfalse electors and jeffrey clark was a lower level official at the justice department who proposed to send out a letter to various states saying the doj had found fraud in the election. that would have been an incredibly destabilizing act. senior appointees blocked it, but he's unnamed as an unindicted coconspirator. experts believe these five people and maybe the six are

absolutely liable to be criminally charged. it's rare to see a conspiracy brought against one defendant, and there's an incredible amount of detail about the actions of these six coconspirators in the indictment, but they're unnamed as of now. >> ken, if they were to be charged, any timeline on when that could happen? >> reporter: well, i have been talking to legal experts about that. it's really interesting. a lot of people believe the special counsel made a strategic decision to not charge these people, to only charge donald trump in order to get this case to trial as quickly as possible. he could indict these other people tomorrow, but there's every chance if he did that, a judge would combine their cases into the trump case, and that would mean this thing would take a lot longer, there would be a huge number of lawyers, more motions and litigation. a lot of people believe if they are to be charged, if they don't cut deals to cooperate, it would be much farther down the line,

closer to when this donald trump case is getting to trial or after trial. those z some of the strategic considerations the special counsel is undertaking. >> i want to bring in tim mulvey. >> on this issue of coconspirators who are currently not charged, unindicted, but are referenced throughout the indictment right now, trump is facing charges alone. how important is it when it comes to accountability for others to also face charges? >> i don't want to put myself in the shoes of the prosecutors and investigators at the justice department, but one thing chairman thompson used to say in the select committee's work is there needs to be top to bottom accountability. accountability under the law that we see the wheels of justice moving forward. but there needs to be accountability for everybody involved in the scheme. so you know, it is very important that there be

accountability under the law, but if you go back and look at the select committee's work, read the report, watch the hearings, these are familiar characters but there are a lot more familiar characters as well who are beyond this handful of unindicted coconspirators, lawmakers, officials at the state and local level who were part of this scheme. it's important while this indictment is moving forward to look at the work the select committee did, we have seen a universe of who was involved in the scheme. >> the january 6th committee obviously didn't have as much access to people or evidence as the special counsel has. are there some things in the 45-page indictment that surprised you or what are the things that more impressed you when you read that? >> there were certainly details in this indictment that was information beyond the reach of the select committee. information about what vice president pence was doing, some of the interactions he had with the president, the description of phone calls he had. >> what was so surprised about that?

>> i don't know, i wouldn't say it's surprising necessarily, but it indicates the justice department of course has a lot more tools than the select committee did. you read the indictment, it looks a lot like the select committee's work with additional details. it makes me presume the special prosecutor has a lot more information that's not in the indictment that's going to be clear very soon. >> things like the vice president was taking contemporaneous notes while these conversations were going on and the repeated conversations the president had with the vice president on this issue, it seems like he was in a way targeted consistently by the president, according to this indictment. is that something that you all were not aware of? >> well, we know that there was this multi-step campaign, this pressure campaign that the vice president was at the center of. that was very clear. but again, the vice president didn't speak to the select committee. these unindicted coconspirators spoke to the committee, but they largely made assertions of

privilege. those granular details about how the scheme unfolded will be really interesting to see as this moves forward, exactly what that looked like. we got the sense certainly in the broad strokes of what the pressure campaign looked like, but not the level of detail we can expect to see going forward. >> i'm curious to get your thoughts on one part of this indictment which comes down to trump's mind set. and we know that the special counsel had some conversations with will russell, personal aide to the former president, as well as in his personal life now post presidency. and they were asking him about his mind set on january 6th and leading up to january 6th. how much do you think that his mind set is going to play a role in this case moving forward? >> i'm not a lawyer, so i don't want to get too far down the path of sounding like one. >> based on the january 6th committee was able to pull tin erms of the different

evidentiary threads. >> when the committee reconvened after our series of summer hearings, that meeting was very much focused on president trump's intent. and underscoring all of the information that the select committee had gathered that donald trump lost and he knew he lost. and that he pushed ahead with this scheme anyway. so i think that's certainly one of the key findings of the select committee's work. i expect, again, that's something that we'll be hearing more about. >> thank you so much for being with us. i really appreciate your time. next, former vice president mike pence featured prominently in the special counsel's indictment. how donald trump is responding to his former right-hand man. plus, as each new indictment actually galvanizing some voters and feeding into donald trump's framing that he is the victim of a, quote, witch hunt? you're watching special coverage of donald trump's third arraignment live from our nation's capital. stay right there. (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief

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. with just literally hours until donald trump's third arraignment, former vice president mike pence finds himself in a tough spot. he says he wishes the justice department had not brought charges against his old boss, but he's getting vore vocal that trump's conduct was wrong. >> sadly, the president was surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers who kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear. i had no right to overturn the election. that on that day, president trump asked me to put him over the constitution, but i chose the constitution. and i always will. >> pence speaking out more forcefully against trump lately. as the full scope of his cooperation with jack smith's probe comes into view, creating more challenges for him politically in terms of his campaign for the presidency. joining us now, nbc news senior national politics reporter jonathan allen and former pennsylvania republican

congressman charlie dent. gentlemen, thanks for being here. congressman, one thing that is very striking about this indictment is the level of pressure trump put on pence, just the details that we have in here, how over and over and over again between christmas on the 25th, all the way through to january 6th, trump cent coming back at pence, trying to get him to essentially subvert the will of the people. when you read those details, page 33 for those who are following along at home, what do you think of it? what strikes you? >> it's astounding to me that donald trump would have the brass to say to his vice president, you should not count and discard state certified electoral votes. i mean, this is crazy. i mean, everyone knew it was crazy at the time. and so the fact that trump has been charged over it should not come as a surprise to anyone. but yes, pence was under tremendous pressure.

it wasn't only just mike pence. trump was calling state elected officials in pennsylvania, in michigan, in georgia and trying to get these folks to come up with alternative slates of electors and somehow discard the state certified election results that he did not like. so i am not at all shocked by these criminal charges. and it's, again, astounding to me that mike pence in some respects believes chargestient have been brought, but at the same time, pence is saying that what trump did was unconstitutional, a violation of his oath of office. >> you know what's so crazy? you talk about that, it seems so obvious that pence should be speaking out against trump. but he waited so long, and now we know what trump was doing behind the scenes, and yet, pence ultimately did the right thing. he fulfilled his constitutional duties. but he kind of left it hanging out there for people to wonder,

like, whether he actually could have acted differently. he didn't come back more forcefully until i think that's why this is so surprising, until now we learn of these details? >> yes, if i'm a candidate running against donald trump in a republican primary, i would be bludgeoning donald trump right now with this indictment. as well as the others. all these candidates, they have a weapon that they can use against trump. but instead, too many of them, not saying mike pence, but too many of them are out there saying well, this is all part of the deep state. it's a witch hunt. weaponization of the doj. nonsense. they're basically running for second place. why are they running? they want jack smith to do their dirty work for them. they want jack smith to take trump down so they don't have to. they think they can have clean hands in this, but this is politics. you have to get into the fray, otherwise, trump is going to be the nominee and they're simply empowering this guy. mike pence should find his voice and basically speak the truth,

as he did leading up to january 6th. he needs to do that more if he has a chance. >> jonathan, of the many things that these 45 pages show, there's the quote that stands out from the detail in the indictment when trump told pence after being rejected repeatedly, quote, you're too honest. it seems like being honest kind of would be a good thing, that's the way it should be, but it appears pence isn't really politically benefitting from that. >> yeah, what donald trump admits there, you know, if it's true, is that he believes that what he's doing isn't honest and what he's trying to get pence to do isn't honest. but mike pence has put staff forward for the january 6th committee in congress. we now know that the federal investigators have pence's

contemporaneous notes from the details of the indictment, what pence is saying on the campaign trail, which is just a little stronger than what he was saying before. still short of a full condemnation of donald trump. we look at all that together and say mike pence has decided which side of this he's going to be on. he decided a long time ago, and you know, sort of adjusting. but i think what's important about that, what we have learned about the republican primary electorate is the more that somebody criticizes donald trump over january 6th, the less likely they are to be a viable candidate at least in the short term. congressman dent says that if he was in that race, he would be in there mixing it up with trump. the thing is maybe that would pay off long term, but certainly in the short term what we see is those who do that end up on the short side of the polling. >> yeah, i mean, charlie, i want to play for you something a new hampshire voter at an event for asa hutchinson who has been critical of president trump,

said about trump's legal troubles. >> i like what they're doing, but i think that every time we see a new indictment, we see a new excitement with his supporters. it's kind of abominal. and that worries me very much. >> it's an incredible boom rang thought, charlie. these indictments could actually at the end of the day, evidence shows it, that among some in the republican party, it actually builds enthusiasm. >> sure, among the most hard core elements in the maga base, they think these indictments are great. they think this is helping trump and they're all in with this. but for those of us who actually came from competitive areas, these indictments are catastrophic to the republican party in these swing districts and competitive states.

independent voters, swing voters are completely turned off. what independent voter is going to say i'm going to vote for donald trump after he's been indicted for a third time. they're just not out there. there may be some short term bump in the primary contest, but in the general election, this is catastrophic. what part of losing don't these guys understand? 2018, 2020, 2022, underperformance. this has been a disaster, a train wreck, about to happen again if trump is nominated. it will be horrible for the country but a disaster for the republican party. i think everyone running, every serious republican elected official other than a few hard core wing nuts, they all understand how bad this is for their ability to win and maintain a majority in the house and to recapture the senate, if not the presidency. >> you would think this would be a real disaster for donald trump, if you're the one who is

getting hit with indictment after indictment after indictment, you would think you would respond in a different way than what we have witnessed here in the last couple of weeks, jonathan. you have some new reporting, nbc has reporting about the impact of the new indictment, the anticipation of it, with trump and his people. and ultimately, trump was golfing the day it came out. even after it was announced and made public, he had a dinner with his friends over at fox news, executives who were trying to convince him to come to the debates since they host the first debate in a few weeks, which we just learned in fact he's not planning to be there. there just seems to be an air of nonchalance this time around. >> that is projected from people near him, but let me be clear, donald trump doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison. and that is what donald trump is facing between this indictment and the one in federal district court in florida.

we'll have to see what happens in georgia. the manhattan one is less serious in terms of what's at stake for trump. this is not somebody who wants to be in that position, so yes, there is a short-term high of getting a lot of encouragement from his friends, from his supporters, from that hard core maga base that the congressman was talking about, but make no mistake, donald trump doesn't want to end up in a cell. he certainly doesn't want to lose his second presidential election. already thrice indicted, twice impeached, he's looking at getting a turning point. things aren't going in the direction he actually wants. >> jonathan? >> yeah. >> i was going to say quickly, i know a number of people have been indicted federally, it ruins their lives. their lives are turned upside down. they don't go golfing. they can't eat. their lives are ruined. outside of the death of a family member, i can't think of something more disruptive, and

for donald trump, it's just another day that ends in wine. this is how absurd and how abnormal this is. most people would not be running for office, let alone being seen in public anywhere. >> let's take this conversation into commercial break. we have to squeeze in a break.g. we got to get in a break. >> thank you for being with us this morning. still ahead, d.c. hosted dignitaries and presidential inaugurations and now capitol security apparatus shifted into high gear for a criminal arraignment of a former president. >> we'll speak with the former d.c. intel chief who oversaw the response to january 6th about the security preparations under way today. you're watching special live coverage of donald trump's third arraignment at our nation's capitol. arraignment at our nation's capitol. o! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them.

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partners from our partner agencies here, npd, u.s. park, secret service, and federal protection service. we're prepared for whatever might happen. >> that was the chief of u.s. capitol police talking about the security preparations for donald trump's arraignment today. and this morning we can tell you security at the federal courthouse where trump will appear in a few hours is tighter than ever, with all kinds of barricades outside. we're told armed u.s. marshals in the halls on the inside. >> that courthouse less than a mile where trump stands accused of maing claims to an angry crowd on january 6th. today, the capitol is on heightened alert after what now appears to be a false report of an active shooter, temporary clear, the nation's capitol yesterday. >> aaron gilchrist joins us outside the courthouse. also with us, daniel harvin who oversaw the city's january 6th

response. let's start with the reporting, and, aaron, this is a busy federal courthouse, security is always tight. what kinds of security are you seeing there across d.c. today right now? >> reporter: there is a growing security footprint here today. i want to mention, though, part of the reason for that is the concern potentially about demonstrators being here. so far this morning we haven't seen much. you see a guy here with a prison jumpsuit, costume on, he's carrying a sign that says lock him up. an anti-trump demonstrator, if you will. one other person we have seen with a huge flag towering over members of the media. beyond that, though, we have seen this massive security presence that popped up since late last night. these metal barricades have gone up since midnight last night, all around the federal courthouse here, which is just a block off the national mall, not far from the u.s. capitol building either. this is just one indicator of the security presence that has really set up to be prepared for anything that may happen when a former president of the united states comes to a courthouse

like this for the hearing that we expect to happen today. the federal -- >> we just lost -- >> reporter: -- one of the main entrances -- >> sorry, aaron, we lost you for a second. looks like we lost him again. >> okay. >> this is live tv in the nation's capitol. want to see if we can bring aaron back. meanwhile, daniel, it feels like a full circle moment in many ways. these massive security preparations for trump's arraignment after he's accused of exploiting violence on a day when security preparations obviously fell short. what is going through your mind as you watch these preparations? >> well, the preparations are really spot on, obviously. law enforcement has learned a lot from january 6th, it would be difficult for a squirrel to get through the security apparatus they have lined up. but more sobering -- this is a sobering day for the country. it is once again a third time indictment for former president,

this is nothing for people to celebrate and quite frankly it could lead to more radicalization, to the more extreme elements of his base as was previously mentioned. >> this is trump's first arraignment in d.c. but he has been arraigned in new york. he's been arraigned in miami a few months ago. do we have any idea if officials in d.c. looked to those cities as they prepared for today? would you have expected them to consult? >> absolutely. and, you know, nobody is better preparing for large scale activities than washington, d.c. another trend you've seen is new york, miami, the crowds, the pro trump crowds have been smaller and smaller as this has gone along and they have become less and less violent. so i think that a lot of the, you know, ra-ra around trump and rallying around him is starting to dissipate. but with that said, security officials have to plan for that lone individual, that lone actor who may get into a truck with

weapons and with no footprint online and then come and try to disrupt and be violent. they're not taking any chances. but you see the trend in terms of the violence that is starting to de-escalate. >> daniel harvin and aaron gilchrist, thank you for being with us this morning. much more to get in our next hour of coverage. >> including what axios calls trump's delusion defense. how republicans may be forced to defend someone who can't distinguish reality from conspiracy. and the 30,000 foot view of this moment through the eyes of a presidential historian. >> we're back with more special coverage in our nation's capitol for the third arraignment of donald trump after a short break. raignment of donald trump after a short break. hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking. i needed something to help me gain clarity. so i was in the pharmacy and i saw a display of prevagen and i asked the pharmacist about it. i started taking prevagen and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity.

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good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific, i'm jose diaz-balart alongside my friend and colleague ana cabrera with the third indictment of donald trump. right now the nation's capitol holding its breath with just a few hours to go until the former president begins the now familiar process of making a court appearance. he'll be at the courthouse, which is just a couple of blocks away from where we are bringing you this broadcast today. >> and security is at an all time high as we wait to see the former commander in chief plead not guilty. trump is also expected to be fingerprinted, but we're told no mug shot will be taken this time. former president and his team are out with a new request this morning, the w