good evening, everyone. we're following today's breaking news out of washington. donald trump for the third time this year entered a courthouse, stood before a judge, and pleaded not guilty to his alleged crimes. unlike the previous two instances, the location of today's arraignment tells its own story because the former president essentially returned to the scene of the alleged crime. the d.c. federal courthouse stands in the shadow of the u.s. capitol, where trump's efforts to subvert our democracy following his failed 2020 presidential bid culminated in the insurrection at that very

building. likely some of the same law enforcement officers who were out today providing protection for trump's appearance were also called upon on january 6th to defend the peaceful transfer of power from a violent mob of trump supporters. brought there by the man who today was called on by a magistrate judge to answer to the four charges against him. sitting just feet away from trump, as he entered his not guilty plea, was special counsel jack smith. the last time the two were in the same room was trump's previous arraignment in miami. according to the pool reporter, trump glanced briefly in smith's direction when he walked in but did not appear to make eye contact with him, nor did he appear to look at him again for the rest of the hearing. trump in the courtroom today was stripped of the trappings of former office that he typically airigates to himself. magistrate judge referred to him as mr. trump, not president trump, as his fans including fox

anchors refer to him. the judge advised trump of his rights and warned him in a stunning moment for those of us who were following along, that his pretrial conditions include not committing any other crimes. the judge also warned trump, quote, it is a crime to influence a juror. and that a violation could lead him to being held, pending trial. yeah. that happened. the next hearing was set for august 28th before judge tanya chutkan, who will oversee the trial. it is expected the trail date will be set at that hearing. and counter to what trump and the right wing circus want you to believe, these indictments have nothing to do with trump's standing in the polls. it's about accountability. accountability for actions that donald trump took of his own free will. whether it was making hush money payments before an election to hide an affair with a porn star, refusing to return national security documents after leaving

the white house, or in the case today, entering into a conspiracy to try to overturn the 2020 election and the will of the american voters. joining me now is glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former member of robert mueller's special counsel investigation. and a former senior investigative counsel to the january 6th select committee. thank you all for being here. this was an extraordinary day. i think we can all agree about that. glenn, you were there. you were in the courtroom, i think you were in the overflow. give us sort of a sense and a feel for how all of this played out. >> you know, for the most part, it was a relatively routine arraignment, but for the fact that a former president of the united states was being arraigned for trying to overthrough our democracy, not entirely ordinary there. i will tell you, joy, the first

thing that caught my attention was even before the hearing started, i saw evan corcoran walk in. i don't know if there's been much talk about that, but evan corcoran is donald trump's lawyer who was compelled to testify about and in a very real sense, against donald trump because he was the one who infamously certified that all documents had been returned from mar-a-lago to the federal government and that was untrue, of course, the crime fraud exception trumped, no pun intended, the attorney/client privilege, and he was forced to testify, undoubtedly incriminating his former client in that case. donald trump, i was surprised to see him show up. i don't know if there's a saying, keep your friends close and your former lawyers who have testified against you in the grand jury closer. but whereas he recused himself, he conflicted himself off of the mar-a-lago documents case, he

was in the courtroom, not announced as counsel of record, but sitting right there virtually shoulder to shoulder with donald trump. i found that interesting. and then from there, the other thing that i frankly enjoyed was when the magistrate delivered a message from judge tanya chutkan, saying the prosecutors will file in seven days. their proposed trial date. the defense will file seven days thereafter their proposed trial date. on the 28th of august, just 25 days from now, judge chutkan will set a trial date. i think that sets the tone. it sets the agenda. and you know, judge chutkan, who i know from trying murder cases against way back in the day, she is strong. she is smart. she is fair. and she's no nonsense. i think donald trump may have met his match at least

procedurally in judge tanya chutkan, who i think will give him a prompt and speedy trial. >> really quick, to stay with you for a moment, the other thing we were on earlier with rachel and friends, that i thought was kind of interesting were the other judges who attended the hearing today. can you talk a little bit about that? >> yeah, there were some judges in the back of the courtroom. i heard the reporting too, joy, but from where i was, they didn't train the camera on that part of the courtroom, but i did hear that other judges showed up. i will even say in the overflow courtroom, senior judge hogan who i tried a lengthy rico trial in front of, was in there for a period of time. there were a lot of judges and other magistrate judges like magistrate judge faruky, who were coming and going to kind of keep tabs on what was happening. not surprising. i think the whole courthouse was abuzz and certainly the security surrounding the courthouse was

pretty significant, and it was a press presence outside the courthouse like i have never seen before. >> fascinating stuff. let's come back to the table here, andrew. let's go through the things that, you know, a lot of times, how unusual some of these things were. the fact that a trial date was set, it was discussed, is that normal for this kind of hearing? >> no. to have -- this is as glenn said, usually a pretty pro forma thing. i was, to glenn's point, i had the exact same reaction. obviously, the government and the defense are very focused on the trial date. it's everything for the defendant, he wants to not have facts and law matter. he wants to just talk in adjectives and adverbs and characterize the evidence and say it's all a witch hunt. he does not want a trial where people see facts and law. so for him, putting it off is everything. this trial and all trials.

for the government, it is to get this into law before a jury and the public. so to me, the fact that the judge said this is the briefing schedule, and i am going to decide this on the first day you appear. you will all have an opportunity to be heard because you have papers you will submit, but the very first court date i am going to set a trial date. terrible news, i think, the other thing i would expect because of that, the government i think before that date is going to be basically backing the truck up with discovery. i mean, i don't think there's going to be discovery disputes. it is going to be everything under the sun because they need to show up and say it's been done. because they want to be ready and to tell the judge we have done everything we need to do. and they will be making a lot of good arguments about how much this defendant actually knows even before that discovery went out, because they have all the

january 6th stuff. >> we'll get into that in a minute. also, proforma, yes or no, to warn the defendant don't commit any more crimes and don't even try tampering with the jurors. >> and saying, let me just tell you the most important thing, don't commit more crimes. i was waiting for that to be, let me just tell you the most important thing, you will be out on bond, means you have to show up at the next court appearance. being out on bail is about needing to appear. it is -- it is a given, i mean, like you need to tell somebody, by the way, if you commit a crime while you're out on release, you can go back in. that's exactly what happened to paul manafort. he obstructed, went to jail. so i don't know if this particular magistrate does that routinely, but let me say, i have never in my years as a prosecutor or defense lawyer ever heard that, and even for all of the mueller cases, never

heard somebody say let me just single one thing out. but again, as we talked about, this is a defendant when you look at his rap sheet, he has been charged now with six counts of obstruction of justice, four here, two in florida, and he's got other crimes in florida and in manhattan. so you can understand the judge saying, i need to warn you about something because if you commit a crime while you are out on bail, guess what the remedy could be? you're going to be awaiting trial inside a jail cell. >> welcome to the show. this is your first appearance. i have to say, there's been a lot of talk about this being a solemn day and a grave day. i have to be honest, i admitted it on the previous show with rachel and our friends. i didn't feel solemn. i'm being honest. if i'm being honest, i didn't feel solemn. it feels like donald trump has been subjected to such disparate

treatment in his favor for 77 years of his life, whether it's whether he's forced to pay taxes, not. whether he's forced to abide by the rules that say you cannot profit from the presidency. that was not enforced. you could go on and on. and the arrogance of trying to eliminate the votes of people in seven united states. seven states, and say we're going to negate your votes, replace them with our electors. we didn't like your results. we're going to use ours. thanks for playing. that was so arrogant, and the people who showed up on january 6th were so arrogant in feeling they could defecate in the capitol, tear the capitol apart, beat up police officers and commit crimes while livestreaming them and then go to their hotels. get on planes and go home and wait a year to be prosecuted. all of it feels so incredibly arrogant to me. this felt like a day where we got justice just to see him humbled. not called president trump, not given the weird deference that some in the media even give him. i thought it was a great day for

america and i didn't feel solemn at all. but as somebody who investigated january 6th and was involved in that process of telling the country in great detail what happened that day and what was done to us, i wonder how this hearing struck you. >> i think the word that comes to mind is accountability. when we began our investigation, we decided we would follow the facts wherever they took. after we all left our families, came across the country, came to d.c. and fully invested ourselves, and what we wanted was to tell the american people what happened, who did what, and why they did it. our report and our hearings i think did just that. and it gives me a big sense of pride to look how closely the indictment tracks the work of the committee. and i think what it shows, it validates work we did and shows we got it right, and i think now it's up to the justice department to continue our work.

>> did anything in the indictment surprise you? >> i wouldn't say surprise, but i think it met expectations. i think it showed that jack smith has been thorough. it shows he's followed the evidence where it's taken him and it shows it's gone further than the committee. for example, the indictment included a reference to vice president pence's notes. that's something new. so i think what we'll find out as more discovery is turned over and this case continues is that i would bet jack smith has even more under his sleeve preparing as he goes forward to trial. >> one of the great disappointments during the january 6th hearings is that our former vice president, mike pence, did not feel an obligation to his country to testify before that committee. we're going to leave that aside for a moment and talk more about him later. let's bring in capitol hill correspondent garrett haake who was one of the few reporters whagot one of these precious spots inside the courtroom today for the arraignment. give us some of the color, because one of the things i did find interesting, you know, and

again, i thought was fitting, was the judge referring to trump as mr. trump. and her seeming sternness as you described it earlier when we spoke with you. and also, the jack smith. give us the full color. >> well, i was struck by that too. the kind of inversion of the power dynamics that i think donald trump is used to. this is somebody who spent four years as president. when he walked in a room, everybody else stood up. that's not the dynamic when you're a criminal defendant. instead, he's ordered to stand to be sworn in, ordered to stand when the judge comes in. he's responding to another person telling him where he can go and what he can do. that's been the case in all the arraignments but it was notable today, the judge repeatedly referring to him as mr. trump, not president trump, which is what he's used to in the environment in which he lives right now. that power dynamic i think was palpable. i have covered all three of these arraignments in the

courtroom, and donald trump has gotten much more comfortable in this situation. in new york, he was sort of visibly nervous, he was tight, hunched over. he didn't look around the room. that was not the case today. what's been so unusual, i mean, just the sheer bizarreness of what we're talking about here, a third arraignment for a former president, is starting to feel at least a little bit routine for the person being arraigned. so all of that struck me about the power dynamic, and the jack smith element has been fascinating to me too, because the same dynamic existed in miami as existed today. smith just a few feet away from donald trump, maybe 15 feet in this hearing room today. trump clearly saw smith when he walked in the room. they were looking very much in the same direction. but after i think appearing to kind of note his presence, tried very hard in the 15 minutes before the judge actually started the hearing to look everywhere else in the room except at jack smith. smith had no such issue. he was watching donald trump very closely. every time he spoke, he was watching him, and he was clearly staring a the former president,

the man he just charged with trying to overturn the election. when donald trump left with his secret service entourage, smith once again as he did after the hearing in miami, kind of worked the room, made a point to shake hands and clap shoulders and encourage and smile and even what appeared to be pretty junior members of his team. the way i described it earlier is smith seemed to be trying to create kind of a home game atmosphere here for the special counsel's office and the justice department that this may have been donald trump's city when he was president, but this is jack smith and the special counsel's turf in this federal courthouse, and that was the feeling of being in the room today. >> very quickly before i let you know, were any family members of trump's there? and have they been at any of these three hearings? >> no, and that has always stood out to me. this hearing, there was one staffer, the press secretary for donald trump, was in there along with secret service agents. that's the first time i have even seen anyone from his

campaign, but no members of his family have appeared at any of these arraignments. it stuck out to me over the course of the last few months. >> thank you very much. you have that golden ticket and we appreciate you sharing the info with us. >> our wonderful panel is staying with us for continuing coverage of former president or just donald trump at this point, just a citizen, latest arraignment. "the reidout" continues after this. rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. this is a bombas performance sock. for such a small item it performs big in so many ways.

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i am back with my panel. let's get into this a little bit. to quickly go to the judge, the assumption is that the trump defense is going to try everything, right? you have already had united states senators ted cruz and lindsey graham attacking her and saying she's biased and saying she's got to be thrown off the case, et cetera, and there's been the we can't get a fair trial in d.c. all that is going to be litigated. does that happen at the august 28th hearing? how does this play out? >> the venue issues are one the judge can take her time on. it's a dead loser. an argument made in watergate lost. manafort made that argument, lost. it's just not an argument to say i want to be in front of a jury where there are more republicans. and also, if you're saying that there's too much pretile publicity in the case, that's true in any, any courtroom in this country. so that's just requiring having

very careful jury selection. so that's just a loser. that won't be decided before august 28th. i do anticipate that there are attacks on the judge, whether they move to recuse her based on what really will be trumped up issues. they could try to do it. there's nothing at all that i think is going to go anywhere. i think on august 28th, there is going to be a court appearance. and she, as she indicated today, is going to be making a decision on the trial date that day. after hearing from both sides. >> okay, and let's talk about this discovery, this issue. one of the things we did talk about earlier is that the defense, the trump defense wants to delay this trial as much as possible. they would love for it to be after the election. hoping he wins and then just throws everyone out and says jack smit is fired. they're going to try to push it and push it. the discovery issue they're saying is there's a volume of material and there's so much. as you said, they're going to back the brinks trump up and

dump it, but they're going to say it's not enough, we need more time. i feel like the january 6th committee was pretty thorough. we kind of covered them on msnbc, and so a lot of it is public. i know there was some tension at one point about whether or not the january 6th committee was going to turn over information to the justice department. refresh our memories, ultimately, things were turned over. how much does the justice department have of the material you all put together? >> i think importantly, the committee turned over its evidence to the american public. looking over the hearings that we put on, that really tracks the indictment that jack smith has obtained. after our work was done, we also released the transcripts which those depositions underpin the testimony that goes to the indictment. so i think it's true that jack smith is going to be turning over various pieces of evidence, but the core of what supports the indictment, that is public. the story by the collectors, that's public. the committee laid out of it out

for the american people. i think it would be disingenuous for trump to claim this is all brand-new. >> let's talk about all the other trials. when garrett said that trump looked more comfortable now, i'm like, i'm not sure that's good. i don't think i would want to ever get comfortable with being indicted. i would hope that would never happen, more than once is like really bad. objectively bad, but just to put up, donald trump is facing the following. he's got the trump civil fraud suit on in october. he's got the e. jean carroll civil defamation suit in january. he's got the new york state hush money trial in march. then he's got the classified documents trial in may. and then we don't know when this trial is going to happen. there's a lot on the docket. alvin bragg, d.a. bragg, has signaled he would be willing to not go first. that he would be willing to push his date if he had to, to accommodate this case, which i think everyone would agree is the big one.

how do you think the other -- that the presence of other cases that he has to also sit for could impact this case? >> joy, any time i had a defendant who was facing trial in multiple cases, here is what would often happen. the defense team would appear before one judge and say, judge, we really don't have time to prepare for this case the way we need to because you see, i have this other case. then they would go before the other judge, and they would say, judge, you know, i really would like to set a trial date, but you see, i have this other case. i'm not accusing defense attorneys of doing anything improper, but boy, do they always play those angles. they play one case against the other. i'm going to say again, joy, i think donald trump and his defense team have met their match in judge tanya chutkan, because you know, as we say in d.c., criminal justice circles, when a judge is tough, strong, no nonsense, and you can't put anything over on them, judge

chutkan don't play. she's already indicated there will be a trial date set 25 days from now. i have a feeling she may set it for january or february. that gives the defense team six months to prepare. i also have a feeling, as you mentioned, some of these other trials may get continued. they may kind of melt away or recede into the background like alvin bragg's prosecution in new york. the e. jean carroll second civil trial. these things may have a way of sort of clearing themselves up somehow, because i think most people recognize that donald trump needs to be tried. and the american people, when they go to the polls in november 2024, in the event donald trump is the republican candidate, i think they should know, and i think most of them would want to know, if they're voting for a convicted felon or voting for somebody who has been completely

exonerated at trial because apparently he did nothing wrong. i think this will probably now be the first case to go to trial involving donald trump. >> yeah, and look, he should want that too. especially if he truly is not guilty of the crime. andrew, to come back to you, there is a certain sort of poetic justice to this in a way. we were talking about it earlier. as alex wagner brilliantly said tonight, the foot soldiers have largely gone to prison. the middle men, the oath keepers leaders and the proud boys leaders, straight to jail, all convicted of seditious conspiracy. there's a poetic justice to the general having to face the same courtroom and the same process as them. and then there is, i think, in a world where we see blue collar folks go down hard for all kinds of crimes, you shoplift, do whatever, you go down. drug crimes, whatever. donald trump is the ultimate white collar defendant, with all

the privileges and, you know, but to see him humbled in this way, i think it is important for our criminal justice system to demonstrate it can do that. i'm going to let you give your thoughts on it. >> i couldn't agree with you more. i think that judges, good judges are very aware of that problem of a two-tiered system. and the idea that in this courthouse in particular has seen hundreds of cases along the lines you have talked about, and you now have this so-called white collar defendant. you know what, that is what it means to have the rule of law. and i spent most of my career prosecuting white collar defendants. it's rare. it's harder. they have a huge army of people. but the people who are against this, were they against all the other prosecutions? everyone who attacked the

capitol, the oath keepers, the proud boys? no, of course not. everyone who has any sense looked at what happened that day in absolute horror in terms of what they were doing to those individual people and to the country, and so this is what it means to have one tier of justice. and i think that's one of the reasons that you heard about all these judges who were present. because remember, all of those judges have those cases. they have seen all of that, and this is the person who was like the chief instigator allegedly. obviously, all of these judges are committed to the rule of law, including that he has a right to due process and all of the procedures, but it also means that he can be held to account. remember, a grand jury has voted this indictment and the average jurors have found that there is probable cause here. this is not jack smith. this is average penal who have decided that and now it remains

to be seen whether they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. >> the powerful transfer of power is endemic to our system, but equal justice under the law is the other big piece of it. we need to prove that equal justice under law means that donald trump is now citizen donald trump and is treated just like any other citizen. if they can go down for crimes so can he. it was important and vindicating for the system to see this happen. thank you very much. former january 6th select committee member jamie raskin joins me next. stay right there.

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if key takeaways from jack smith's 45-page indictment sounded familiar, it's because many of those details were already presented to the american public through the january 6th committee. in a series of dramatic hearings as well as an egg00-page report, the committee made the case that donald trump was ultimately responsible for the insurrection. congressman jamie raskin hailed the investigation for laying the groundwork for trump's third indictment, calling it a tremendous vindication. he also firmly rejected trump's free speech defense to the new charges, a view shared by none other than trump's former attorney general and chief henchman, bill barr. >> as the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants. he can even lie.

but that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. all conspiracies involve speech. and all fraud involves speech. so free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. >> joining me is congressman jamie raskin who was the lead manager during donald trump's second impeachment, and a member of the january 6th select committee, and congressman, you're uniquely disposed i think to react to today because you did lead the second impeachment, which was for what donald trump did on january 6th, and of course, you were involved in the january 6th committee. i want to get your basic reaction to the fact that today did indeed happen, this arraignment? >> well, it is a great vindication of the rule of law in american democracy, and i think that in this case, william barr had it exactly right. you know, there's no first amendment right to engage in a conspiracy to overthrow an

election, to engage in a conspiracy to interfere with a federal proceeding. there's no first amendment right to engage in a conspiracy to defraud the american people of an honest election or to violation their voting rights. and so i think the court will be able to sort that out, just like common sense tells us that you don't have a free speech right to overthrow the government. in fact, there are more than half a dozen different places in the constitution itself which explicitly reject insurrection against the government, and congress has the power to call forth the militias in order to suppress insurrections and repel invasions and enforce the law. that's in article 1, section 8, clause 15. but you know, it's all over the constitution, in section 3 of the 14th amendment, it says if you swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution and you violate it by engaging in

insurrection or rebellion, you can never hold office again. so obviousobviously, we have a o defend our constitutional process. that's what this prosecution is all about. >> what do you think of -- do you think there is something sort of poetic about the fact that a provision of the ku klux klan act underlies one of the counts against donald trump? >> well, it really does go back to reconstruction and the civil war. you know, lincoln made a beautiful statement where he said that insurrection is an assault on the very first principle of democratic government, which is that the people get to choose their own leaders. and so we just engaged in a whole presidential election process through the complicated electoral college system. we had arrived at a solution. joe biden won by more than 7 million votes. and then this mob shows up to say, no, we're going to take

this in another direction. and donald trump is doing everything in his power to void out the legitimate election results and substitute them with counterfeit electors in a completely fraudulent process. it was an attempt to perpetrate a fraud on the public, but fundamentally, it was an attempt to usurp the will of the people and violate everybody's voting rights, and specifically, to void out the votes of everybody who had cast ballots in michigan. in arizona, irn georgia, in wisconsin, the states they had targeted for getting mike pence to just nullify the votes, to step outside of his constitutional role and say, i'm going to return these electors to those states or just anoint donald trump or kick it into the hus of representatives. i mean, there were different plans afoot, but all of them were attempts to drain the victory away from joe biden and overthrow the actual election results. >> you mentioned mike pence. he chose not to testify, refused

to testify in fact before the january 6th committee. what did you make of the revelations that came in part from his contemporaneous notes, and the statements he's made thereafter that have been much more open, i think, about what donald trump was trying to compel him to do? >> yeah, and i did note that there were several facts that were pled in the indictment relating to mike pence that we did not have access to because pence chose not to testify before our committee. but donald trump was clearly trying to coerce him into pulling the switch-a-roo. transforming his purely ministerial, administrative function at the peaceful transfer of power on january 6th, into a substantive role in picking and choosing which electors were going to be admissible, according to him. and pence, to his credit, said

that has never been done. that's not the history of the country, that's not in the constitution, and it would be utterly lawless, and he was saying that in effect, he issued a memorandum to that effect on january 6th. but of course, trump didn't care about any of that. you know, he and his co conspirators really thought that pence could come to play the key role in overthrowing the legitimate electoral process. >> it was sort of eerie in a sense that the courthouse was so close to the scene of the crime. the scene of the insurrection today, and that's where trump faced arraignment. but he as of the last 24 hours was still -- he's still making threats. he has vowed retribution, in 2024, he put on his truth social fake twitter. it will be our turn. and he is threatening very openly to indeed weaponize the government against the biden

family, against whoever his perceived enemies are, effectively turning the country into a banana republic if he comes back. what do you make of the fact he is undeterred even after three indictments, the january 6th hearings, civil cases against him, he seems undeterred in terms of threatening to literally weaponize the government against his enemies if he's returned to the white house, and the fact he's even so viable as a candidate on the republican side? >> well, i mean, you have got it. he's in full blown autocratic dictatorial mode at this point. he's doing everything in his power to delegitimize the american justice system and the rule of law. for him, it's just about rival party teams, or even those who are loyal to him and those who are not. that is politics characteristic of a banana republic. and you know, there are people

all across the political spectrum who are rejecting what he's trying to do, but it is a very troubling sign that so many people in the republican party continue to follow his irredeemably and encourageably corrupt conduct with respect to american constitutional law and our system of government, so that's a serious problem. but we know the vast majority of the american people are on the side of the constitution, are on the side of upholding democratic institutions and are not going to fall for any of that and do not want to see a form of politics arise in america that is based on vendetta. so he's entitled to the legal presumption of innocence like everybody else in america. he's entitled to due process like everybody else in america. there's a great judge on this who is a public defender, a

criminal defense lawyer, and he can make all of his arguments, but fundamentally, the rule of law has to be vindicated here. >> i think we all agree, everyone watching the show agrees, without the january 6th committee, we likely would not be here. there was a great reluctance by the fbi to do what is happening now. we thank you, we thank the january 6th committee for all of your work. congressman jamie raskin, thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. still ahead, there may be yet another, believe it or not, trump indictment waiting in the wings. an atlanta journalist who was subpoenaed to testify in the fulton county grand jury investigation. this is a fascinating story. he joins me next. (alternate voice) denture disaster, darling! we need poligrip before crispy popcorn. (regular voice) let's fix this. (alternate voice) poligrip power hold + seal gives our strongest hold and 5x food seal. if your mouth could talk, it would ask for... poligrip.

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alone you can't stop it. together, we will. we have a plan. join us. ( ♪♪ ) to people who say that, what would you say? >> that i took an oath, and that the oath requires that i follow the law, if someone broke the law in fulton county, georgia, that i have a duty to prosecute. that's exactly what i plan to do. rapper

young thug who was -- alleging that he was a leader of a violent gang called young slime life. many are speculating trump and his allies could be charged with the same statute. that is atlanta's more pacific reporters who fascinatingly enough has been drawn into the trump probe and he joins me now. george in atlanta, who has gone from reporter to witness in fani willis's case against donald trump, plenty, plenty to unpack here. right to meet you, mister katie. jon jones who does the readout

blog is who hipped us to. you tell us very briefly about your coverage, including of this young thug prosecution, just so people can understand your work. >> i work on criminal justice in journalism, particularly in connection to politics. i've been working on a podcast for the last few months called king slime, and it's going to be about the why's cell case, and how rico is applied in fulton county. it has been a wild ride, i have to tell. you the court case itself is nuts. >> but how then did you go from that, and you are a very prolific reporter and we know internally a lot more about you, how did you then end up pulled into the trump and fake electors case? tell us that story. >> so in december of 2020, when the electors were meeting together the vote, i went to the capital, the state capital, because i wanted to observe that. i was a little concerned that

political extremists might try to disrupt it. as it happens, i recognize one of the republican electors, one of the people who would've been an elector, and he went into a room in the capitol and i thought that was curious. so i followed him in with my camera going and lo and behold, i entered the room where it was happening. a republican so-called electoral were having their meeting right then. they pretty quickly threw me out of the room. but before they did it today -- i asked what they were doing, they said it was an education meeting. they were not truthful with me. because of, that i've been subpoenaed to go and testify to that in front of the trump granary in fulton county. >> there are so many interesting parallels here. in this case, the young thug case, how do you think that rico statute being used against him, which seems unusual to use

that against a rapper, could apply to donald trump? >> the racketeering laws essentially saying to people or more in a conspiracy that are engaged in an act that is illegal. and if you are a street gang that is engaged in illegal activity, as they accuse young thug and 27 other people of doing, from a legal perspective, it is almost exactly the same sort of thing. it is the same law that donald trump might be charged under. it is the same people in fani willis's office that are investigating that and game crime in atlanta. >> based on your reporting on fani willis, when it surprise you if she didn't charge donald trump with racketeering or other crime? >> there is a real question there. there is some speculation. i don't want to get too deep

into that, because i'm a witness, which is awful. >> it's true. >> but i will say that when you look at the michigan case, donald trump was not charged. you know, they charged the so-called fake electors there. and so maybe there is a parallel that will happen here. i think the distinction, though, is that there is a phone call to the secretary of state's office. and so the quality and quantity of the evidence here is a little different. >> have you ever, as a journalist, have been called as a witness in any case, in any case? >> never, never ever. under normal circumstances, i would never show up and testify in front of a grand jury. about the relationship between a journalist and power needs to be adversarial. i am not an agent of the government. if you want to know what i know, read what i am writing. the circumstances here are a little different because of the nature of what i'm being asked

to testify to and the case. >> just a little bit different. atlanta journalist george chitty, i hope you will come back. this is a fascinating story. thank you. tears, we'll be right back. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid

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all in with chris hayes starts right now. chris hayes starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. well, as you see, they caught him. and they got him. they finally got the guy. after over two and a half years, the man responsible for the attempted january 6th coup i was taken into federal custody in washington, d.c.. of course, we've known all along just who the prime suspect was who we should be on the lookout for. he did it in front of everybody. but today, he was nabbed, so to speak. he was arrested and booked. no mugshot was taken at the ex president, but his fingerprints were taken.