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breaking developments and donald trump's third indictment. judge tanya chutkan requests -- rejects the request from trump's team to delay the court proceedings. and televised the trial. democrats are demanding cameras in courtrooms, arguing the faith of our democracy depends on it. and it is a bust. house republicans wanted to expose biden criminality and got just the opposite. no evidence, no crime. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ tonight, we begin this hour with that breaking news. u. s. district court judge tanya chutkan just ordered donald trump's legal team responds to the government's motion for a protective order but bye monday, at five pm eastern. that order would prohibit trump and his lawyers from sharing discovery materials with unauthorized people. the special counsel argues this social post from trump suggest he might intimidate witnesses.

in part by improperly disclosing confidential evidence received from the government. just moments ago, judge chutkan rejected a request from trump attempt to delay this proceedings, as the latest developments in this legal and political chaos in which we find ourselves. for context, here three presidents have been impeached in american history. donald j trump, bill clinton and andrew johnson. just to have been arrested. donald j trump and ulysses s grant, the latter for speeding in his horse drawn carriage back in 1872. only one has been both impeach and arrested, and only one has the greatest honor of being indicted three times on scores . donald trump is the most indicted president in the history of america. he currently faces 78 different criminal charges, with more likely in the coming weeks. this will permanently change how donald trump will be remembered.

the first president on the brink of not just one but multiple criminal trials. the most recent for charges, of course, come from the election interference case brought by special counsel jack smith, which include conspiracy to defraud the united states. trump faces 34 felony counts of -- manhattan brags hush money -- 40 counts in the classified documents case. the original indictment contained 37 counts, charges, in jack smith superseding indictment added another three to trump's list. trump has pleaded not guilty in all three cases. he denies any wrongdoing. let's be clear. fulton county district attorney fani willis will likely be added more criminal charges to that total in the coming weeks, for trump's efforts to overturn the election result in her state. that's not even including the true civil trials trump is facing. the scope and scale is historic. it is quite unparalleled.

one has to wonder, does the morality of a president still matter to the american people, or does it just matter or that your side winds? joining me now is nbc presidential historian michael beschloss. michael, it's great to see you again. thanks for coming back on the show. >> -- thank you. >> let's start with your reaction to trump's social media post and the special counsel's request for protective order. what do you make of this rapid development over the past 24 hours? >> any other president, and the other ex president who had been presented with an order like the one judge chutkan issued. with eat it even if he disagreed because every other president, more or less, with a few exceptions, has believed the rule of law. what donald trump has demonstrated, before he was president, through his presidency, right up to this, night is this is someone who has contempt for the rule of law. contempt for the institutions of our democracy, like the way

we elect our president and transfer of power. the amazing thing is that he gets away with calling himself a conservative. a conservative believes and preserving institutions out democracy. conservative beliefs, above, all preserving the rule of law. instead, what we see today, and tonight, is donald trump, despite this order by judge chutkan, threatening potential jurors and witnesses by saying, you go after me, i will come after you. that's a threat. that's out of the godfather movie, that's not out of american history. we are in a totally new different period. of its own. then the other thing tonight, the judge specifically said, do not attack potential witnesses and what does he do? he's twice attacked mike pence tonight. that's basically thumbing his nose at the judge. we are now about to see what she's going to do about it. back. this almost looks to make historically like the weekend

he died heats heavily three 1973 -- richard nixon -- >> you bring up an interesting point in. history and when you look at the big picture, clinton and johnson were impeached. grant was arrested for speeding in his horse carriage. but we have never seen anything like trump. i'm curious to get your thoughts and whether or not our small democratic institutions or system we're prepared a built for somebody like donald trump. somebody who his kind of like a bull in a china shop. not just challenging our legal norms, but also breaking all of our political norms as well. >> donald trump is who our founders dreaded. they always worry that someone could get -- and they talk about man, they didn't think of him getting elected at the time. someone getting himself elected to the president who is reckless and lawless and a

demagogue and out for his own polite power and maybe allied, secretly, with foreign hostile governments. all of this finally came to pass, at least same, it seemed in the case of donald trump. look at the guardrails, and the protections against that, ayman mohyeldin. you mention impeachments. there have been all these impeachments. we're when what is the president ever removed from office? -- never happened. not likely to ever happen in the future. what other constraints or they are against the president? donald trump is president, he was presented with all sort of he digs and demands by congress. he ignored a lot of them. he appointed one third of the supreme court. he believes that he's got a majority of about five or six. in 1974, in july, richard nixon lost the supreme court ruling on whether he would have to release tapes that nixon knew, privately, would mean that he would have to quit or be removed impeached and removed from office. even nixon, who was formidably

lawless, obeyed the supreme court ruling, which was eight to nothing. what would donald trump do in the same circumstances? >> i think we all know the answer to that. and we see what he has done, not only to the institutions, but even to the republican party in the way he continues to debase them day after day. michael beschloss, it's always a pressure. really appreciate your insights and your -- >> thank you, ayman, you're doing great. it's a big night in history. >> thank you. joining me now are carlos curbelo, former congressman and msnbc analyst, david henderson, nbc contributor, and jennifer horn, former new hampshire republican party chair and the host of the, is it just me or have we all lost our minds? podcast, which i would argue is one of the best title podcast out there right now. jennifer, i'll start with you. i want to get your thoughts on the developments of the past 24 hours but specifically trump's post. if you go after me, i'm coming after you. is there any world in which

this is not intimidation? >> not by my definition of intimidation, certainly not. but you know, i think we're missing part of the point here, as we were discussing this and the past 24 hours or 12 hours, however long that particular tweet has been up. everyone's worried about him trying to intimidate witnesses. is he talking about, going to go after jack smith? who's he going to go after? we have to be clear, this is a second audience for the. that tweet. and it is the down from january 6th posse. it's ending the word out. it's loading all those folks who have already found that they're willing to take up arms in defense of this, man no longer president, to kind of put them on alert. and when he says, it's time to go after all these people who are going after me, they're going to be ready to go. when i saw that tweet, i have to tell, you very quickly my thoughts went to the potential for violence.

but this wasn't just about him trying to intimidate witnesses, it's sending a be ready signal to those folks, as i just said, who have proven already that they are willing to take up arms for donald trump. >> david, you know, i was on the air tuesday when the news broke of the indictment and i quickly learned from speaking to some of the great legal minds we were lying on the show about the importance of a judge and what judges do in a case. and i think we got a glimpse of that today. what do you make of judge tanya chutkan already denying the trump legal team's request for more time to respond to this special counsel's protective order motion? what does that tell us about her mindset and the way she will perhaps conduct this trial? >> in frank terms, ayman, she is trump's worst nightmare. she is his legal team's worst nightmare. i'm going to be real when i say it, a black woman with a law degree it's a virtual unstoppable force when it comes

to the justice system. here is why. you are taking someone who's been subjected to two different forms of discrimination. discrimination based on gender, discrimination based on race. and you are instructing them in the law of how things are supposed to work. then you put them in an environment where they see people get mistreated based on who they are, every single day of their career. now you've got somebody walking into her courtroom saying, hang on a second, i deserve to be treated differently because i used to be a super powerful person, and i expect to become a super powerful person again. that is not going to work on her. also, the techniques he typically uses that work on people, intimidating them, by talking about them in the press, i've been in positions where i have had that type of pressure put on me when i have -- it's difficult to articulate how much pressure puts on a person. but someone like judge chutkan has been called every name you can imagine. she's been put under every form of pressure you can imagine. it's not going to work on her. if i was on their legal team, i would tell them, this time you are playing with fire. i think the odds of him serving

time are still next to zero but judge chutkan is still the type of judge who would sentence him to serve time, because she's going to be equitable in terms of how she treats everybody in her courtroom. she's already showing that with these current rulings. >> david, giving us one of the most realistic answers i think explaining up the importance of this judge, and certainly appreciate that. carlos, the magistrate judge warned trump of witness intimidation at his arraignment. is a protective order the only way to keep him in line? it's even going to stay in line? >> he's probably not going to stay in line. i really do think that's the only instrument available. i think it was properly applied. you think about what donald trump is doing, you have to zoom out here. i think you did a great job of going through that with michael beschloss a few minutes ago. donald trump is doing things that are the reason why, in this community, where i live in south florida, so many people have fled here. people do not want to see this in this country. people from countries like cuba,

venezuela, nicaragua, with a rule of law broke down and where dictators started intimidating people and and then later imprisoning people, and punish people for their beliefs and for their opposition. this is -- donald trump is not hinting at this stuff, ayman, he has been pretty transparent about it. so, the judicial system, the courts, i think, have to use every instrument at their disposal to make sure that these processes can continue, can go on, the way they are supposed to, and that people feel safe coming forward and telling the truth. >> panel, please stick around. we've got a lot more to discuss after the break. we are going to discuss the six unnamed coconspirators in the trump indictment. and why they weren't charged yet. but first my friend richard lui is here with the headlines. >> hey ayman, good morning to

you. -- trump's legal team -- requested a time extension to respond a -- special counsel's office. prosecutors following that request for the -- that asked for trump be barred from disclosing any evidence in the investigation, of course more on ayman on this for a very subject. kremlin officials say russian tanker was hit by a ukrainian drone near crimea. the tank was transporting fuel near a bridge that links russia to the annexed peninsula. it is the second struck my russian ship in two days. and a 17 year old male was arrested in connection with the fatal stabbing of a gay man at a new york gas station. officials say he was charged with murder as a hate crime. o'shae sibley, a professional dancer and choreographer was stabbed to death last week. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin right after this break. t after this break [dice roll] ♪ playing games! [party chatter] dancin in the par—!

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goli, taste your goals. former president, donald trump, for his efforts to reverse the 2020 election loss, federal prosecutors allege that trump

actually enlisted six coconspirators to assist him in his criminal efforts to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election. and to retain power. at least five of them are lawyers, according to this indictment. let's go through some of them. coconspirator one, who nbc news believes to be rudy giuliani. the indictment described him as an attorney who was willing to spread knowingly false claims, and pursue strategies that trump's 2020 reelection campaign would not pursue. giuliani was essential to efforts by the trump team to overturn joe biden's -- -- nbc news has confirmed that coconspirator to is not other than john eastman, coconspirator to was an attorney who devised and attempted to implement a strategy to leverage the vice president ceremonial role overseeing the certification proceeding to obstruct the certification of the presidential election. according to the indictment. nbc news believes can

coconspirator three to be sydney powell -- the indictment described president tierney who's baseless accusations trump embraced and publicly amplified, even though he privately acknowledged to others that the unfounded claims of election fraud is sounded crazy. coconspirator four appears to be jeffrey clark. -- as a justice department official focused on civil matters, and worked with trump to use the justice department to open sham election crime investigations, and influence state legislatures with knowingly false claims of election fraud. and coconspirator five appears to be kenneth chesebro, the indictment states that coconspirator five with an who assisted in devising and attempting to implement a plan to submit fraudulent states of presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding. the identity of coconspirators six is unknown. so far. but let's bring back my panel to discuss this. congressman, i'll start with you. it's worth noting that five of these coconspirators are lawyers. at least two of them were

former attorneys for donald trump. what does it say about the conservative legal movement that so many republican lawyers we're going to subvert the rule of law, all to help when man stay in power? >> it is remarkable, ayman mohyeldin. these are the people that bill barr used to call the crazies or whatever it is, and these are people have sullied the legal profession and the legal system in the united states. people go to attorneys forget advice, for an understanding of how the law works, and how the constitution works, and sure, had to figure out how to gain advantage within those parameters. it's pretty clear that these individuals were giving advice that was way beyond the bounds and the parameters of the constitution, and of the law. they were not acting as attorneys, they were acting as chief political hacks who were basically willing to do anything to keep donald trump in power. so it is a good sign that people like that will be held

accountable, because typically, i think a lot of deference is shown to lawyers. but these are lawyers who do not deserve that kind of difference. >> david, i have a two part question for you. the first one is, the indictment lays out what these coconspirators were doing, but why doesn't it charge them? a number two, could donald trump say, look, these are lawyers, they were the ones that were telling me and giving me this advice, whether it's a john eastman type of memo, to put forth fake electors. or rudy giuliani saying here's the way, and here's what we can do. >> to answer your first question, ayman, there's no justification for them not being charged. i expect we may see charges again in the future. here's the reason why i say that. down in florida, you've got two guys being charged along with former president trump for moving around boxes and for deleting security footage of moving around boxes. in the d. c. case, you've got a conspiracy to jack a presidential election, and seven people are in on it. if you're going to charge the guys for moving around the boxes, how do you not charge the coconspirators who tried to hijack an election? especially when they knew what

they were doing? president trump is sitting behind the wheel of the car, but the lawyers are providing the fuel to these wrongful legal theories. that answer is question number one. with regard to the second question, and bear with me, ayman, i forgot exactly what you asked me, the second question. i'm so sorry, can you remind me? of >> course, this second west des moines could donald trump use the fact that these are five lawyers as his legal defense. say, look, i was given advice from john eastman about a possible electoral slate, or alternative slates, to put forth. i was given advice by rudy giuliani to put pressure on mike pence to not certify the election. and really, hide behind the fact, or use as the defense strategy, that these coconspirators are lawyers giving him bad advice. >> absolutely. he's going to try to do that, 100%. and here's what we have in our advantage, when trying to analyze this. some of these theories have already been tested. let's look at giuliani. he's looking at being disbarred, both in d.c. and in new york, and typically what they will do is they will say, hey we are going to have a hearing to determine whether not we should

just for you. but in your case it is so blatant we are going to go ahead and suspend your law license right now, maybe we will finish all the formalities later on. because the lies were so egregious. and we saw this with the january 6th proceedings in terms of the evidence that was offered. he was told multiple times that this was wrong. and i don't think any jury is going to feel any differently than -- also, some of these other lawyers are facing disbarment in other states, eastman in california, powell and texas, and they haven't all been successful but they let you know how people are responding to these legal theories and trump is receiving them in multiple directions. and when he goes to pence and he tells pence, hey, we can just do it, the lawyers say we can. pence didn't just say no. he said let me have my people check it out. and his people came back and said yeah, they're telling us we can't do it. so i don't think we should do it. and he still kept moving forward. i don't think it's gonna be a good defense. >> jennifer, jack smith's team demonstrates that his coconspirators knew they were spreading election lies. according to witness accounts, trump privately said that

sydney powell's election fraud claims were, quote, crazy. what do you make of this private, public dichotomy, and how this special counsel's offer might use it between what trump was saying publicly and what he was saying privately? >> well, we know that there are other voices in this case. other witnesses who talked about the fact that the president absolutely knew what was true, what was honest. that he had lost the election. that many people had discussed it with him. and he knew that that was the truth. so, the fact that he then publicly came out and continued with the conspiracies, and the lies about the stolen election, i would just suggest -- it makes it very clear that trump, you know, the state of mind is a guilty one. he absolutely knows what he was doing. but i also think it's really important to add to this conversation that it wasn't just trump and his close circle of attorneys that were advancing these lies, and these conspiracies. there are a whole long list of

republican politicians sitting in the house, sitting in the house senate, who advance them as well, and they knew better. they knew that these were lies that they were repeating to the american people. and i think that that, as much as we are focused on this arraignment, this indictment right now, we have to recognize how really dangerous and damaging it is to have elected officials who are willing to engage in this manner as well. >> jennifer horn, the david henderson, carlos curbelo, thank you so much for joining us tonight. i greatly appreciate your insights as always. the coming up, the case for televising the trump trials, congressman steve cohen joins me after a quick break. er a quick break (vo) verizon small business days are coming. from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod.

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♪ on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears! thanks to always ultra thins... with rapiddry technology... that absorbs two times faster. hellooo clean and comfortable. always. fear no gush. >> nearly 40 house democrats are demanding donald trump's criminal trials be televised, in a letter to the judicial conference, members argued for the, quote, extraordinary

national importance to our democratic institutions. adding, if the public has to fully accept the outcome, it will be vitally important for to witness, as directly as possible, how the trials are conducted. the strength of the evidence a deuced and the credibility of the witnesses. unlike in state and local courtrooms, broadcasting proceedings in federal court is not the norm. but there have been some exceptions in recent decades. joining me now is one of the signatories of that letter, democratic congressman, steve cohen, of tennessee. congressman, it's great to see you again. thank you for making time for us. let me get your thoughts by just quickly on the breaking news that we had this evening, the protective order that prosecutors requested against trump last night, after he posted what seemed to be a threat online. today you have the u.s. district judge, tanya chutkan, reject trump's request for an extension. what's your reaction, sir? >> well, he said if you come

after me, i'm gonna go after you. this is the actions of a bully, of a tyrant, and that's what he is. judge basically cautioned him about taking illegal steps, and he doesn't know what illegal is. because everything that emanates from him is perfect, all right, and legal. but this is dangerous to witnesses, dangerous to piece pull that testified. dangerous to people to prosecute. basically telling people, don't get involved, don't support this position. and if you do, i get to be president. he'll get even. he will get even, because bill barr said there will be no checks on him. we will lose our country. >> let's talk about the letter you and your colleagues sent to the judicial conference in which you make the case for this trial to be televised because of the powerful circumstances we find ourselves in. why do you believe, sir, it is important the american public could bear witness to this trial in realtime? >> we have seen our nation

become more divided than any time, i guess since the civil war. this it's totally divided. but it's divided now not on whether your favorite -- it's whether or not to see facts and admit they are the truth or not. we have a problem just as seeing reality, and the facts and working off the same -- we are cell owed by cable television, if you watch msnbc and cnn, you see a certain version of the news. which i think is the truth. and if you watch fox, or newsmax, or some of those stations, you see fiction. and that's why they had multi hundreds of millions of dollars judgments against them for lying about dominion voting and other things on fox, and they're going to have others they're going to be filed liable. we need to make sure that the people can watch this, and see it on their own, and not to have to watch it through the eyes and ears of fox and

newsmax, who would take trump's position, and switch the perspectives to be what trump wants, and not the truth. the truth needs to be seen, because otherwise, if they don't accept the judgment, and i'm just assuming that the judge -- he's presumed innocent. but i think he's guilty as el capone, as anybody can be. and if they don't see the trial, it may not accept it. because i'm sure on fox, they will show this be something like for -- >> how concerned are you about what the reaction will be if donald trump is found guilty in this trial, and it is not televised? how concerned are you that him and his followers, or him and his allies, may incite his followers to violence, like what we saw on january the 6th? >> i definitely can see that. donald trump does not want to go to jail. then his followers believe him.

here's a man who's probably the -- he's pinocchio look like a tower of truth. he's been found indicted now three times. each -- impeached twice. he's been found guilty and is liable in civil cases for rape, for lying -- a civil case he cheatedarities. cheating charities? you raped women at bergdorf goodman? and you lie about everything in the world. and these people believe him as if he is a truth stopper. he's not. they don't see it with their own eyes, even then, i don't know if they'll accept it. but you've got to hope they will accept the verdict, and to do, that they need to see with their own eyes, i hope the chief justice roberts will understand. that our country is at risk of danger of a civil war. we are danger of insurrection, danger of this horrific things. whether he's found guilty or not. the only way i think i can see to make less of this would be to televise it, so people can

say for themselves. >> since you mentioned chief justice john roberts, it's ultimately him and the judicial conference who will make that decision. but do you believe, given the way that the supreme court has behaved and the way the chief justice has behaved it, in the lack of transparency when it comes to the supreme court, that he'd be willing to grant that transparency to the american public in this trial? >> i certainly hope he would. i don't think he wants the court to have a good reputation. some of the things the court has done has lost its support for the public, with the no ethics laws, and all the benefits that have been heaped upon clarence thomas and justice alito, getting similar benefits. and acting like it's improper even to question the ethics of the supreme court. they should not be a medium for ethics laws like every other political group is.

so yeah, i hope justice roberts will protect the courts integrity, and the court is at a low point, i think it's acceptance by the public would be abnormal for him to do this, to say the public has a right to see this at different times. -- if we didn't even have television, there's news reels, i guess, but he didn't have a president like trump. we didn't have a division of this country the way it is, where people, you can't see the truth, and listen to what they are told by folks that think democrats are all running pizza restaurants with fronts to have human trafficking and child trafficking going on. they believe this qanon mess. this is a dangerous time in our nation. i think justice roberts need to recognize, the court needs to take extraordinary action to protect the democracy and protect the foundations on which the court rests. >> yeah, in his previous scholars and others who have study this have noted, televising the trials has not impacted either the jurors or the right of a defendant to have a fair and speedy process.

so, really, there is no reason not to televise these trials anymore. congressman, steve cohen of tennessee, it's always a pleasure, sir thanks very much for your time. >> you're welcome, thank you very much. >> ahead, testimonies from hunter biden's former business associate backfires on republicans, we are going to tell you why. t care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever,

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my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. >> all right, a brutal blow for house oversight chairman, james comer, this week, and the witness republicans had hoped would prove their theory that joe biden once accepted bribes, instead testified to the panel, and i quote here, i have no basis to know if joe biden altered policy to benefit his son. in fact, that witness hunter biden's close friend and business associate, devon archer, said he was not aware of any wrongdoing by the president, period. as put in the washington put, james comer has repeatedly seen that james comer should be taken with a grain of salt. we should be clear, regardless of this, hunter biden clearly

overstated his influence with his father, and manipulated their relationship to help himself. but, as democrats point out, that's not criminal, and it doesn't tarnish president biden. >> so then the question becomes how much longer are we going to go on this fishing expedition? there is no evidence connecting president biden to anything related to hunter biden. we have been told by the republicans repeatedly that this is an investigation to joe biden. there is no evidence that connects joe biden to any of this. and we've now had witness after witness come in, and they have testified to the same thing. >> all right, joining me now is michael singleton, political consultant and host of the shermichael show on sirius xm -- and former congresswoman, don edwards, now washington post

columnist and nbc said msnbc political analyst. shermichael, what was your take away from devin archers testimony this week? >> look, i had an opportunity to greet it. at best, ayman, i guess you could say maybe there's some unethical behavior on behalf of hunter biden, of putting his father in a very precarious predicament. but there's no surprise, i mean, i don't think hunter biden is the poster child for being a perfect child. but is there direct evidence that connects the president to some type of fraudulent activity or illegal activity? we haven't seen it yet. and republicans are arguing that this is a part of the investigation, trying to see if such activity did indeed occur. but as we know, we don't see it. >> congresswoman, exactly how many more times can james comer cry wolf before he loses any credibility in the eyes of the american public. do you think republicans are as frustrated with him behind closed doors as democrats are in front of the cameras, that he's unable to deliver on what he keeps saying will be evidence? >> well, your starting with the wrong premise. he really doesn't have any credibility.

this hearing that came forward, and you can look through the transcript, i don't know how many times a witness in devon archer could say i have no knowledge, i don't know, i never heard of that, joe biden didn't have any connection. dozens and dozens of times throughout the transcript. and so, i think you have a nothing burger of investigation. and i think for all the promise of tying joe biden to all of this, it simply has not worked. and so i don't know whether republicans are frustrated, but it's not like any of their oversight is going well at all either. so, i think, you know, you look at this time since january, republicans have been in control. they've gotten nothing done in congress. and as well, they really

haven't done anything with respect to these investigations. >> so, ultimately shermichael, is this going to work for republicans going into 2024? this attempt to try and juxtapose hunter biden's legal woes with donald trump's legal woes, as some type of political strategy? >> i certainly wouldn't put them on the same plane, ayman. >> i'm not saying them on the same plane at all, republicans love to create this fake narrative worth a say, we were just about to break hunter biden. we were just about to have this. we were haven't devin archer bright that big bombshell and then they indicted on trump. so i guess anybody who lives on earth one doesn't believe that, but i'm saying they're going to use that narrative. i'm asking, do you think it will work? >> i think it certainly has the ability, if they continue to persist to raise some level of doubt or question among a certain percent of the voting populace. whether or not, payment, it's effective enough to increase or change the odds potentially if

it's joe biden first donald trump, i'm not particularly certain of, that to be honest with you. i don't think the average person really carries. in terms of the former presidents legal issues, i think that is certain to be front and center in the midst of the election next year. but this devin our thing -- most americans don't know where the heck ukraine is. they don't care about this. it doesn't have an impact on them. so i'm less certain this is going to be an effective political strategy. i think there are something republicans could focus on that might tend to be more effective for them in the general election. >> congresswoman, let me ask you about something more sinister here. democratic congressman jamie raskin has pointed this out. he sent a letter to comer, re-up in a claim that he withheld a key transcript from the american public, relating

to the triple committee hearing with irs agents who say the department of justice mishandled the hunter biden case. comer pushed this idea of fees claims, that's not true. we haven't been able to this transcript. do you expect the public will ever get to see the full transcript, if it does in fact go against what republicans want us to believe in the narrative they pushing out there? >> i don't think so. i think that republicans have been very crafty, particularly the committee, very crafty at holding the -- they think will not be in their favor is. withholding those public view. the fact is that there is no connection with joe biden. there is no -- with the irs. some sort of manipulation of the irs. hunter biden is going through his own legal process. and that will happen. that is completely separate and apart from the president of the united states. it's not going to stop republicans. those that want to go down this

rabbit hole are going to do that. but i think for the majority of american people, shermichael is right. the stuff just doesn't factor in. >> so how do democrats counter it and what should they be doing right now, congresswoman? >> i think the thing they can do is, i mean, i think the law is on the oversight committee have been really, really good. dan goldman, jamie raskin, really pushing back on the republican narrative. and they've torn a power of these witnesses. these witnesses have come forward. and of all those fallen completely flat. the reason is because democrats are on their a game as challenging the so-called oversight. james comer is doing a horrible job leading this committee. >> shermichael singleton and from a congresswoman donna edwards, thank you to both of you. greatly appreciate your insights tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up, victory for the tennessee three. we tell you about that. we tell you about that

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been covering for you. both expelled members of the tennessee three have won reelection to their old seats. justin jones won his election for his state house state and nashville. and justin j. pearson won his race in memphis, according to projections. this comes months after republicans expelled them for disorderly behavior while protesting against gun violence on the house floor. jones and pearson were fighting for stricter gun measures, after a mass shooting at a nashville school left six people dead, including three nine year olds. their expulsions led to claims of a racial double standard. while jones and pearson are both black, the three protesting member of the tennessee three, democrat laura johnson, who is white, she was

not removed from office. johnson said the difference in treatment, quote, might have to do with the color of her skin. jones and pearson were reinstated, by local officials, but only on an interim basis. they still had to run for their old seats. first in the june primaries, and then in this week's general election. their wins come at a critical time for democrats. republican governor bill lee has called a special session for later this month to address potentially changing the states gun control laws. justin jones says he is ready for it. he tweeted this announcement at the republican house speaker who led the votes last spring. the find out era of politics is just beginning, see you august 21st for special session. we'll be right back. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu.

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find your passion and create your future at contra costa college. start today at contracosta.edu >> as we discussed earlier, rudy giuliani seems to be coconspirator one in jack smith's indictment. the indictment that accuses former client, donald trump, of plotting to overturn the 2020 election. coconspirator one figures each of the conspiracies the special counsel alleges to a place, leading to open the possibility that giuliani could be charged himself. the next chapter in his long public life will now be written by jack smith, who would prosecute giuliani, pressure him into cooperating or leave him dangling, potentially, to be indicted by the district attorney will -- election offense in georgia. giuliani back in the news for his elections aversion efforts,

it is nbc's airing encore presentation of four seasons total documentary, next. of course, this film reverses giuliani's infamous press conference at four seasons total landscaping. that was delivered just as the 2020 presidential election was called for joe biden. how giuliani's efforts to throw the election into doubt somehow wound up at a gardening center. stick around after for a conversation i hosted with the director of the documentary and the family behind in philadelphia landscaping business. don't go anywhere. four seasons, total documentary, is beginning right now. of course, it is streaming on peacock. thank you for making time for us. make sure to come back tomorrow night at nine a.m.. i will be joined by tim, the lead investigator january six committee to discuss how this latest trump indictment vindicates his panels. going broke, wisconsin democrat party chair, jen wikler, on the dire straits state republican party finds themselves at. until then, i'm ayman mohyeldin,

four seasons total documentary begins right now. have a good night. ve a good night. >> those are powerful words from a teenage girl. i fear he could kill me. >> yeah, she was scared to death. >> my daughter, she is bleeding to death. >> a daughter, and a dancer. murdered one day after school. >> it s and she was all by hers. i think that was the worst part. >> who in the world could do this? and, are they going to do it again? >> this was personal. >> clue after clue. >> there were footprints in megan's blood. >> suspect after suspect. >> did you kill meghan? >> no. >> i was in shock. >> they were looking at everyone that she had contact with.