a reminder, you can listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. search for inside with jen psaki wherever you get your podcasts. we'll be back here next sunday. stay right where you are because there's much more news ahead on msnbc. ead on msnbc ♪ ♪ ♪ >> and good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york city. welcome to reports. i am richard louis in for alex witt today. we're gonna begin with donald trump launching a rigorous defense against election fraud charges on the campaign trail on social media and on television, with his defense attorney going wall-to-wall on this sunday talk shows, offering several lines of defense, including this one related to trump's right to free speech. >> every single thing that president trump is being prosecuted for involved aspirational asks, asking state

legislatures, asking state governors, asking state elector officials to do the right thing. in fact, even asking vice president pence was protected by free speech. >> well, former vice president pence did not dispute trump's right to ask. but he is once again drawing attention to what he was asked to do -- >> a day before january 6th, he came back as his lawyers did. he said we want you to launch those votes outright. they were asking me to overturn the election. i had no right to overturn the election. i know we did our duty that day. >> well, the federal judge tanya chutkan in d.c. has set a timeline for tomorrow at five pm when the trump team must respond if they object to the government's request for a protective order on evidence in this case, a request prompted by trump's activity on social media as of late, effectively setting up the first showdown of what is expected to be a protracted court battle. now, the indictment remains the

top story on the front pages of the new york times and the washington post, as members of trump's circle are expected to go from top page two top witnesses. possible state charges against trump in fulton county, georgia. a new cbs news poll shows 51% of americans believe that trump plans to stay in the presidency after he lost in 2020 through illegal and unconstitutional activities. only 20% believe he did not plan to stay beyond the end of his term. we now have several reporters and analysts in place to cover all of these details and developments. let's start with nbc's julie tsirkin in columbia, south carolina, where trump spoke last night. and, julie, how is he responding to all of these reports. >> reporter: he is responding, richard, as you might expect, despite this protective order request being issued by special

counsel jack smith, he is still going on the defense, and even the offense on the campaign trail, speaking back to back at gop fund-raisers, to crowds in alabama on friday in south carolina last night, just a couple of miles off this road where we were there about 1300 attendees from the state's republican party, and they applauded him, they cheered him. he railed against the special counsel himself. take a listen to what he said himself, and we will talk about it on the other side. >> the ranged jack smith, he's a deranged human being. you take a look at that thing, you say that guy is a sick man. >> people attacking prosecutors -- >> this is a political campaign right now. this prosecution was instituted by president biden, and in the middle of that campaign, people are going to speak out. my role is not to address anything about prosecutors. >> now, who we just heard from is one of the former president's's lawyers doing an

appearance on all media networks today, speaking to our choctaw this morning, defending his client, the former president, who on the campaign trail said that this is about his poll numbers, where he's continuously climbing, he is currently leading the closest rival, desantis of florida, by double digits. his supporters who i spoke to all weekend as well backing that up, saying this is political, that the timing of this is questionable. joined a half years, or a year and a half, after january 6th, before the 2024 election they gets very close, around the corner, and so, he is continuing to say that this is nothing but a political matter. i want you to take a listen, though, to what the chief democrat, one of the top democrats of the january 6th select committee in the house who spent close to two years going through all of the evidence here, what he had to say to counter that claim from trump. watch. >> he conspired to defraud the american people out of our right to an honest election by substituting the real legal process we have under federal and state law with counterfeit

electors. i mean, the people who are in jail for several years for counterfeiting one vote, if they try to vote illegally. and once, he tried to steal the entire election. and his lawyers are up there saying, it is just a matter of him expressing his first amendment rights. that's deranged. that's a deranged argue. >> yes, trump's lawyers, trump's campaign, spokespeople, are continuously saying that the president is just expressing himself, that he is using the first amendment to talk about this case, to talk about how he feels about being prosecuted for a third indictment here, of course pushing back on that protective order, trying to limit what he could say and discos about this case when it comes to the evidence. but all of that is set to take place tomorrow night, as you mentioned, with a judge ruling that they have until five pm to comply with this request. we will see what happens if the campaign continues to delay the trial from getting started. >> nbc's julie tsirkin for us in columbia, south carolina. julie, thank you so much for that. let's go over to katie phang an

hour for the state prosecutor, host of the katie phang show here on msnbc. she was 24 hours a day. danny cevallos, similar timeframe. trial lawyer for nbc news and msnbc legal analyst. katie, to you first on this, this is a tweet. let's start with that. the tweet that led to this protective order, the judge setting that monday deadline for the trump team's response. but what is the issue here? what ultimately is the main concern of prosecutors, and why does the judge pushing for this five pm deadline in a very serious way. and what happens of the trump team doesn't respond by 5:00? >> immediately a total of thoughts, richard, number one, the protective order is not unusual to be had now what is being sought by the government specifically is the ability to limit defending trump's ability to disseminate the discovery that he is going to get a lot of it in this particular case, with jack smith. there is a subsection, though, on this particular protective order that deals with the idea that if trump is allowed to

have a chilling effect on witnesses, further dissemination or the spreading of this discovery, that that would be a bad thing for the prosecution. as such, something like that, trump's truth social media post, that's a problem. the language that is coming out of donald trump, that's a problem. there is a very fine line that you have to thread between first amendment free speech rights, and his ability to not lacks politically about his situation, and the ability to intimidate, witness influence, you know? affect the outcome of the case because he's trying to basically scare people into submission. you have to be very careful as a judge. but to answer very quickly, richard, the five pm deadline, the judge said, well, you should have taken the time that trump council, to confirm with the doj, send me a red line of what problems you have in the order from the doj, and do that by monday. and i think it's necessary, i will send a hearing for you guys to argue about it back and forth. but otherwise, tiktok tiktok goes the clock. and august 28th, she's gonna

set a trial date on this case. >> so, she will set a trial date. is there any contempt of court on this, if they do not respond? do expect that to happen, katie? >> well, it is an order by the court. and if you do not abide by the court order, certainly, contempt of court is an opportunity for the court. now, with the judge go that far? who knows, she may try to set a tone from the get-go. that says i'm not gonna suffer, and from what we, know she doesn't suffer fools in this particular district. so, i think if you are trump's counsel, you better stop talking all over the news today, and maybe you better be doing that red line. >> danny, we understand from just history what the strategy is from typical trump legal teams. what is trump's teams argument this time against this request for a protective order and wanting a delay of days? >> really, at the core, they are just saying, we don't have enough time. as the justice department, the doj saying in their filing, which is well within, but starkey filing, very rare for doj to allow any snark but,

basically say, we stand with our finger on the send button ready to send this discovery. the thing that's holding this up is the defense, saying we need more time. but they are filing a multi-page motion, saying we need more time. and they could have used that time when they filed the multi page motion to actually respond. now, of course, i also see the defense's position which is what's the difference? a few more days, we just need to respond. and really, that is ultimately a judgment call by the judge. and this happens to be a judge that doesn't see a need for the additional days. and other judge easily could have seen this, well, what's another four days? and i'd rather suspect that this was not one of the most high-profile some criminal cases in american history. it might be just for that reason alone. so, this is really a minor dispute. the trump team will likely argue and comply with the order because it's far better to avoid drawing the judges at this stage this early in the

game. >> all right, this is indictment number three. let's look forward to potentially what's happening in georgia. and, katie, that investigation is ongoing. and you said if trump is indicted in georgia, they would treat him like any other person. but the fingerprints, handcuffs, is it standard operating procedure here? and if it is, would they change that for trump, since the government literally knows his every move? >> georgia is gonna be very, very by the book in this case. standard operating procedure is to be handcuffed, mugshot it, fingerprinted, all that stuff. he hasn't had that happen to him, and being donald trump. fani willis has made it clear, that's what they're gonna do what donald trump provides and fulton county, georgia, although i think it's going to happen. i think it's a foregone conclusion. in the event trump is indicted, he will go through that process. and there's a reason why. funny willis has been very clear from day number one, she says no one is above the law. so, she wants to make sure that there is no favorable conduct, or treatments that are gonna be

afforded to trump. and frankly, everybody should be treating him as not former president donald trump, but criminal defendant trump. he is just joe citizen now. he may have held a job title before. but right now, is gonna go to the criminal justice system either on a state or federal level just like everybody else is being charged with a crime. >> danny, your thoughts? >> yes, my thoughts, i agree completely. and fani willis has indicated from the beginning that she is doing this by the book, a good point and that is that she took this case and routed it through what was essentially an advisory grand jury. that signals to me, you want to be extra certain that everybody understands that if there is an indictment, that is not only went through one grand jury, but a second grand jury composed of citizens, peers, people in the community. and that this was not a one-sided prosecutorial decision. now, as the defense attorney, i have to talk about how easy it is to get a case through a grand jury, if the prosecutor is motivated to get an

indictment. look, if fani all us can be criticized for not following the book, she has followed the book. she's followed extra procedures. knowing that special grand jury is now the basis of the trump teams motions, for example, to disqualify her, and preclude evidence from that special grand jury. so, look, it is just a defense looking for every angle they could get. i would do the same thing. again, fani willis, arguably, she created a risk -- i should say, there was always a chance that the defense was going to strike out of this. but the fact that she went through two grand juries, i think, will secure that at least she left it up to the citizens, and that it wasn't just her on partisan motivation, whatever that maybe. >> and a fairly tight one, so far at least in the last year, one of the year -- where is mark meadows? katie, we are just waiting that the wall street journal this morning that particular publication raising questions about meadows himself. they quoted marc short say no doubt meadows was an essential

person trump leaned on to hear a legal advice from. and labeling meadows as a, quote, ringleader, adding his response from, meadows calling it useless, uninformed by facts, speculation. so, katie, where is mark meadows in this latest indictment? is he a co-operator? do we know? >> i've always said he is cooperating with the government. and part of this he's been laying so low, like completely low profile, he has not been out there. he's been parroting trump talking points that the trump acolytes and the sycophants to. number one, number two, we call that meadows has his own exposure on the state level for some voter fraud issues. he also has his own exposure through the january 6th investigation, as well as some other potential, you know, culpability based upon what we have seen through these various investigations. if i am mark meadows, and i like the central, you know, hub of this will, with all the

spokes of this criminal conduct -- yeah, i mean, how could he not have been the guy who was filtering information? how is he not the guy that is actually coordinating? he is the guy. and if that's the case, he has incentive to cooperate. and if i am him, i have been cooperating this whole time because i don't want to go to jail, period, end of story. >> danny, why would trump backers be scared here, or be concerned about meadows? and by the way, it is well-documented that he was involved in many of these allegations and discussion points around donald trump's charges in this indictment. >> mark meadows was a central figure last summer in the january 6th committee hearings. he is virtually absent from this indictment, at least a name. maybe there's some evidence that he provided a surface in the indictment. but that mere fact alone tells me that in all likelihood, mark meadows, he is cooperating. and why wouldn't he?

we had a lot of discussions about, are these people in trump's orbit cooperating? just playing the odds, these are exactly the people who would cooperate. these are exactly the people, and the government knows it, who if you said to them, they bear any scintilla of criminal responsibility, they're not gonna take the floor for donald trump. there are loyalists who will. but folks like meadows, a lot of people who were in his orbit when he was in the white house, they have their own careers to worry about. the government is realizing, these are cooperators, maybe they don't need to threaten criminal prosecutions, or just willing to say, i'm so glad you finally showed up. here's some information about trump. >> danny, michael cohen also adding, what about jared kushner? >> what about him? i'm certain that, look -- i don't know it, but i expect that doj has talked to jared kushner, or try to talk to jack kushner. he is one of these figures that doesn't make a lot of appearances here. and maybe he doesn't have that much information about

criminality to offer to the jackson team. but ultimately, he is a question for just as much as mark meadows is, whether he has a prominent role, and whether, again, like mark meadows, jared kushner, when these cases go to trial. will we see him walk down the aisle in the courtroom and take the witness stand? and that is way off their decisions, still something the og is gonna have to decide. it's mostly guesswork at this stage. >> katie, quickly, let's talk about years, potential sentencing, what is your vision on that? what is possible for trump here? >> listen, i know this issue, about whether or not you could put a former president with a secret service detail in a prison, i offered this solution the other day. put him in solitary confinement. and then, he won't have exposure to the general population. and then, he won't be a safety risk. a security risk. it's absurd to think that you cannot put somebody who ends up going through the process, is convicted and sentenced. i think it's absurd that you put him on anything but a federal penitentiary where he deserves to be. again, we do not treat him differently than we do any of us.

if we were prosecuted, richard, and we were sentenced, and we were having to do with a time, we should do it exactly where everybody else has to do it. >> danny? >> just about the sentence alone, if for example he is convicted of obstruction, just a quick look at the sentencing guidelines, you don't look at the macro sentence, it doesn't give you a forecast. but just the offense level, 15 to 21 months, that would be the recommended sentence. but once he starts the add-ons, the guidelines, for example, did he substantially obstruct the proceedings? i wonder. probably a judge would conclude that he's convicted that he did. and then, the numbers start going up dramatically. you get up to 70 months, 87 months. and then, keep in mind, if he is convicted on any of these other cases, he will not be a first time offender, which is a major factor when it comes to federal sentencing. federal sentencing is no joke, and in all likelihood, if he is convicted in either of these federal cases, he will be doing prison time. and i predict his attorneys

will argue, and his defense attorney will argue for house arrest. >> arithmetic, not his friend at the moment. thank you both very much, danny cevallos and katie phang, appreciate it. trump's attorney on offense this morning, explaining his defensive strategy. who is buying and selling? and former congresswoman stephanie murphy who worked on the january 6th committee talks to me about that when we are back in 60. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ dryness and frizz that keeps coming back, could be damaged hair that can't retain moisture. you need pantene's miracle rescue deep conditioner. it's filled with pro-vitamins to help hair lock in moisture, visibly repairing six months of damage in just one use, with no weigh-down. guaranteed, or your money back. for hair that looks healthy and stays healthy. if you know, you know it's pantene.

i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> in order to have a violation of law, you have to have criminal intent. and in this case, corrupt intent. and what that means is that you have to have some desire to do something unlawful. if your attorney is telling you that you have a right to petition congress, then that completely eliminates any criminal intent. >> new today, donald trump's lawyer publicly giving his defense on meet the press, arguing that his role in the

events leading up to january 6th were not criminal. joining me now is former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida, a former member of the house select january 6th committee. representative, thanks for being here with us. what do you say to that defense that what trump did was not criminal? this is about the first amendment. >> thanks for having me on. it's great to be with you, richard. i thought that performance was a masterful political spin, masquerading as meaningful defense. look, i think, you know, we are learning an awful lot based on what the special prosecutor has been able to discover that we didn't even know within january 6th committee. and when you want to vote about that, there was a tidbit within the indictment that indicates that the president wanted to pursue, when he was asked by the vice president -- he said, you are too honest. which means that he knows what he is asking you to do, do

something dishonest, unconstitutional. this is gonna be a case for the special prosecutor to press in the court of law. and i am certainly hopeful that there will be able to find a guilty verdict. >> representative, when you go through the latest indictment, you probably are remembering your former workspace, focusing on the january 6th committee as you were a part of. what's your perspective here on the role the committee played in getting to this moment? and how did smith build on that? >>i think that the january 6th committee really provided the overarching narrative of exactly what happened in the run up to and on january six. we were able in the court of public opinion tell folks that this wasn't a riot and that got out of control on january 6th. but rather, it was the culmination of a multi prolonged intent by the former president to overturn the

outcome of a free and fair election, by pressuring state and local officials, as well as pressuring federal officials. and we were able to tell this story and i think what was a consumable way, using the media, and using the words of republicans, many of whom are witnesses. they provided a lot of testimony that really shed a light on the overall scheme. what i was excited to see in the indictment was that the special prosecutor was able to access testimony from folks we were not able to. so, vice president pence who took contemporaneous notes, was willing to speak to them and provided some interesting tips. i'm excited to learn more. >> when you look into the january 6th committee's criminal referrals made to the doj, incitement of insurrection, notably missing from the charges that have ultimately been brought. what's your reaction to that? are you satisfied with that decision? >> i trust the department of

justice to identify the charges that they think they have the evidence to secure a guilty verdict. however, i think for those average americans who were lied to by people in power, by the former president, and who went to the capitol on january 6th, and then were prosecuted and convicted of seditious conspiracy, insurrection. they are being held accountable for their acts. and in this country, it shouldn't be that average americans are held accountable in the elite getaway. i think it's really important that the powerful people who were involved in the overall scheme are also held accountable. >> you mentioned those who might be getting away, in your words, the indictment, as you know, describes six uncharged coconspirators at the moment. but as you may have heard, at the start of this show, where is mark meadows, the former white house chief of staff? what about jared kushner?

what's your thoughts? >> my hope is that those people are cooperating with the special prosecutor. mark meadows, as you know, did not cooperate with the january 6th committee. and my hope is that his absence is because he is somebody who is cooperating. cassidy hutchinson who was his assistant provided us with a lot of information and insight into exactly what was happening in the white house in the months before january 6th. and i imagine that mark meadows will be able to provide even more detail about what was going on, and what the former president was doing as he was moving towards january 6th. >> representative, dozens of house democrats are pushing for trump's federal trials to be televised, and they are going that this would bolster public acceptance of the outcome. now, you are just a national security specialist at the department of defense. would it be more important for national security reasons for trials to be televised, or would it be more important for it not to be televised? >> the need for transparency,

it would be good to see it televised. but i leave that decision up to the department of justice and to the courts. i do think, no, that i worry about the use of this case to continue to divide americans and to continue to stoke anger against the institutions and against the individuals who are seeking accountability. we know from our january 6th select committee or collect our witnesses were contacted by the former president's network. and there was efforts at tampering with witnesses. so i want to see this case prosecuted in a way that will yield the best justice, basically the outcome that we will get justice for the american people. >> democratic representative stephanie murphy of florida, thank you so much for your time. have a good sunday. >> thank you --

>> history is unfolding in alaska, as buildings and trees are swept away, more alarming, what are the causes of this catastrophe. strophe. (vo) ninety-two percent of students in high-needs schools can't afford essential school supplies. subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with school supplies students need. we call it “the subaru love promise” and we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom.org. it's just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. subaru. more than a car company. want a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop.

remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our get basuv when... crack!hing. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity,

helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. hso the first time i ever seen a golo advertisement, i'm a big advocate of i said, "yeah, whatever. there's no way this works like this." and threw it to the side. a couple weeks later, i seen it again after getting not so pleasant news from my physician. i was 424 pounds, and my doctor was recommending weight loss surgery. to avoid the surgery, i had to make a change. so i decided to go with golo and it's changed my life. when i first started golo and taking release, my cravings, they went away. and i was so surprised. you feel that your body is working and functioning the way it should be and you feel energized. golo has improved my life in so many ways. i'm able to stand and actually make dinner. i'm able to clean my house. i'm able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when you're extremely heavy they're not so simple.

golo is real and when you take release there goes, there goes. and follow the plan, it works. >> some breaking news from alaska, dramatic video of a home collapse it into a raging river in juneau as a melting glacier causes record flooding there. priscilla thompson is covering the story for us. priscilla, the river is receding, but the threat is not over. how much of a search they experience? >> yeah, richard, that flooding is continuing there after the minden hall river crested overnight at 14.9 feet. that is a new record, nearly three feet higher than the previous record that had been set. you play that dramatic video of the home that collapsed into the water. officials say that there were several homes and trees that

were swept away by this raging water. the water is starting to recede, but officials are saying that there is still the danger of erosion along the riverbank, which means that we could still see more homes collapsing into the river, more structural damage, even as those waters are receding. all of this flooding began on saturday as a suicide basin in the city of juneau began to recede, and that water began rushing through that river. there were a evacuations that were held, there were roads that were flooded and had to be closed, and officials there were really warning people to avoid that area if they could, if they were trying to get emergency vehicles in and out of the city. some good news, officials have not reported any deaths to us, so it appears that people have heeded those warnings and gotten out in order to preserve life. certainly, dealing with a lot of structural damage there. richard? >> pitchers in that video, just

to the right of that building, it looks to be a multi family home ready to go. a lot of concern that. priscilla, thank you for that. hey vexing question in the trump legal saga. bob, where is mark meadows? why is he not mention much in the latest document? we asked whether mike pence is too honest. >> okay everyone, okay everyone yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪

try killing bugs the worry-free way. not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪

stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? -uhuh. the designer's eyeing sequins. uh no plaid. while mom is eyeing his spending. nice. and the engineer? she's taking control with her own account for college. three futures, all with chase. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank for both. chase. make more of what's yours.

>> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. president trump -- >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

i had no right to overturn the election. anyone who puts themself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. >> one thing that mr. pence has never said is that he thought president trump was acting criminally. indeed, vice president pence is an attorney. if he had any point said, or thought that mr. trump, president trump was acting unlawfully, or contrary to criminal law, he would've said that. >> new today, former vice president, pence, speaking out against former president trump in the wake of the 2020 election indictment. trump's lawyers pushing back, as you saw. their claim offenses never said anything that the president and was criminal. joining us now is olivia troye, former adviser to mike pence, former national official. thanks for joining us today, olivia. so there have been a lot of critics saying that he should say last. how do you interpret what the former vice president said this

week against president trump? >> i have at times defended pence. i have been very proud of the fact that he showed tremendous courage on january six, but i've also been frustrated with him because i have wanted him to be more vocal about the facts in the environment under trump, in the lead up to that day. as well as the aftermath of it. now, i think there is an official legal proceeding underway, i think that has opened the path for pence to speak more freely, a think he can use that as a top cover that he's been leading towards political, yes we can speak to the voters and say, look, this guy is now being held accountable, or going through legal proceedings to be held accountable for what he did, and all i'm doing is upholding the constitution, which is my job. >> he's not leading that narrative. mike pence was heckled by protesters partly because of his comments so far at a

campaign event in new hampshire on friday, let's listen to that. >> you pull the constitution. you committed treason. you committed treason. mike pence on the bench. >> olivia, how critical might be pence for the case against trump, might that intimidation from trump supporters affect him along the way? >> what you saw happening there is what i think is to be expected when you have trump's followers and supporters who are consistently been fed a ton of lies, and a ton of disinformation about the reality of what's happened here in terms of the 2020 election, for pence, it's critical to this entire proceeding, i think his testimony, it's firsthand, he loved it. he face circumstances with trump, but i think he is the key witness, i think donald trump knows this. i think we'll see donald trump

continue to lash out. it doesn't play in his favor in the court of law, but he is not one for keeping his mouth shut, to his own detriment. i think you'll see the threats come, up that is how donald trump reacts and stand up in ten the truth against him. that is how this machine works, and i was watching some of the comments with trump's lawyer, and he says, pence is never said, this he kind of said that. it reminded me of an express conference where they came out and attacked him publicly, almost verbatim. well olivia never raise these concerns, she never said that she had concerns about what's happening in these times, what's happening, things like that. it's almost like clockwork, it's the same playbook they use over and over. that seems to be working in the polls right now. you were talking about the indictment, calling trump to honest. the former president saying the former vice president has gone

to the dark side. claiming, quote, i never told pence to put me above the constitution, or that mike was too honest. now is this going to force pence to take a stronger stance against trump? how do you see the dynamic between the two plain out in the coming months? >> i think it is. i think that pence is going to have to respond to this. he's going to have to respond forcefully. i think he has a responsibility to do so, because it matters so much to the country. i think that this could make a difference for the republican party still, who have failed because many people continue to support donald trump, especially in republican circles, unfortunately. pence is telling the truth, donald trump is aware that he is a key witness, so donald trump will lump him along with the deep state, right? we've seen this before, he will be the disgruntled, employee will come next.

what's next, the coffee boy? is that's what's coming as his vice president? these are the repetitive massive lies and things that they do, but unfortunately, it works when you have an entire propaganda machine that repeat sets. >> olivia troye, thank you for your time today. definitely appreciate your thoughts and analysis. thank you for your time. a new report that says that democrats have fact based, fresh evidence to be optimistic going into 2024. 2024. ed turkey. perfect for when you're subbed out of the game. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. nothing better than a sub, sub. (vo) verizon small business days are coming. wfrom august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon.

want a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. welcome back.

new reaction today from the biden harris campaign on donald trump's latest indictment. this comes as the president and the administration have been shine away from discussing trump numerous legal battles. nbc's allie raffa as with the president in wilmington, delaware. ali, what are we hearing from trump's campaign manager? >> richard, the biden team up until now has sort of taken, essentially, this fallacy lands on talking about the former presidents ongoing legal woes. the president actually directing his staff in aids should not comment on this legal case for a couple of reasons, you know, politically, he doesn't want to appear as if he's wants to take advantage of the situation, and legally, he wants to respect the independents that he's found in the justice department would have under his presidency. now we're hearing from his 2024 campaign manager, julie

rodriguez, in an interview that she did with her own alicia and undoes. she not only gives us a little bit more by acknowledging these legal cases, she also talks about the biden team strategy as they continue to unfold, take a listen. >> we know that these important cases will continue to move forward, and they'll take their course of action. for, us it's making sure that we're taking turns to lower energy costs. focus what matters most to them right. now and continuing to ensure that they understand the choices that are in front of them, and the contrast of the kind, of you know, extremism that we're seeing from trump, desantis, from the entire field. versus, you, know what's words are resonating with the american people. investing in our communities. >> the biden team continuing the strategy. not necessarily working behind the scenes, there are certainly working under less of a spotlight in the former

president's garnering right now. now some biden allies say that this strategy of silence isn't sustainable long term, but richard, for right, now it looks at the biden team is continuing the strategy going forward. >> elie raffa, think you for the latest reporting. let's bring in bookie, host of the undetected podcast and a former member of president obama's 21st century policing task force and republican strategist, both msnbc political analyst. good to see both of you. susan, democrats have a reason to be optimistic going into 2024, with some attention from vox. this year, lovely new candidates have performed better than expected and 38 special elections so far. including in areas that are considered republican strongholds. what do you think, should the signal to republicans, and the numbers are quite, big we're talking about 20 percentage points, 24 percentage points above average.

>> yeah, what's very a trusting is that it's happening now in 2023, or 2022, as republicans should have been gaining momentum as a referendum against the presidents. the white house, i should say. when i look at these numbers, i would say democrats shouldn't get too comfortable, but they should be relieved that they're seeing turnout and the numbers that they are, that's critically important. the other issue, it's kind of a two sided issue, is biden also won because center-right black kids who voted against trump and came out for biden. that was only about a five or 7% swing, but that's what got biden over the top. this is in addition to getting the most votes ever in history. democrats may have to be careful as to how they're going to suppress some vote and get other votes.

>> to that local versus national, those very voters that we're voting for biden didn't necessarily vote, it could've gone are. why do you think democrats are showing space remembering that, and can president biden take some of the positives that development, despite his somewhat depressed polls at the moment? or even pulse? >> i think we should recognize that the american electorate is paying attention. they are connecting the dots between some of the things that we've been seen happening in terms of policy all around this country. they've been looking at how a 50-year project to overturn roe v. wade is connected to the recent gutting of affirmative action. seeing the same person, edward bloom, who is behind that effort, is now behind an effort to sue the fearless van, which is an organization that is working to fund women of color, entrepreneurs, around the country. they're connecting the dots between those kinds of things and what desantis is doing down in florida, and what republican

governors, mayors, older, people mother doing around the country to try to replicate local principalities. i say all of this to say that the american people are paying attention, and they recognize that if we don't take action now, these culture wars that were publicans are continuously way jim, threaten democracy and freedom everywhere. if we get serious about it now, we can make sure to defeat it in the years ahead. >> let's move to trump being indicted for the third time in four months, sparking some backlash from the gop. some republicans are celebrating the new charges. let's listen. >> i'm actually really excited over this arraignment because it ensures that president trump will be the 47th president of the united states. the american people are sick of this. >> on the face of, this this is a twisted interpretation given the historical nature of what we're talking about. how much does it reflect what a lot of republicans, are trump

supporters, are thinking today? >> it is rather twist, said i guess that's why the ballpark has never been called a political mastermind. what it is reflective of, when we see the poll numbers that donald trump has among the republican primary voters, is that his message of taken away it being about him, and it being about you, it's how he set up. and protecting you. they're really trying to indict you. that is really chilean with a certain amount of republican voters. based voters for donald trump. it is getting deeper, he's -- it doesn't seem that the indictments really matter. now, that being said, it certainly will have a big, it will hurt him very much going into the general election. yes, i don't know why donald trump needs to have this primary voters all jacked up, if they're really going to cost him the election come 2024. >> brittani, how did democrats

respond to this? today stay quiet as the president is right now? what's the approach to counter the -- >> i would love to treat him like he's delusional, and she's not a political mastermind. she may not me. but she did get elected, as to donald trump. we would be wise to take these threats to freedom and democracy very seriously. as with the democrats. look, i understand that every democratic message is not going to come directly from the pulpit of the white house, or out of the mouths of president biden, and vice president harris. there are plenty of democratic strategist, people who are elected and go to other positions, people who have the platforms to make sure that once again, we're connecting the dots between these indictments and the position of our country and this moment. if this indictment, if these multiple indictments do not get to move forward, then democracy itself is under threat. we should take that seriously all the way through the

election. we've seen republicans employ that kind of projection messaging before, right? we've seen this idea that black lives matter activists under real racist because we are out there talking about issues of systemic racism. unfortunately, that message does work with far too many people. it's an old tactic to project on to other people, that what you are doing yourself. that is exactly what lauren boebert is doing here. that message is resonating with far too many people. wise people need to make sure that they're showing, up showing out on election dates locally and nationally around the country. democrats, yes, have to be sounding the alarm that democracy is under threat. >> susan, you know, if the country is splintering right now, along party lines, and also when we look at trump supporters versus others, do you think there needs to be a political resolution to the donald trump question before all these legal matters get results? what without look like? >> i'm not sure what a political resolution but look

like but i do know that what democrats need to start doing is pushing these issues into the local races. lauren boebert wart make a difference nationally but start asking those republicans from swing districts, how do you feel about the indictment? do you agree with your colleague? bring it home. when it comes to any type of political resolution, i think that based on this calendar, they're on the campaign trail. thank you both, have a good weekend. coming up for you, some breaking news a new reporting about the overall in israel. e overall in israel. ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business.

feeling sluggish or weighed down? it could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. metamucil gummies make it easy to get the fiber you need. promoting your digestive health for a better you. metamucil gummies. the easy way to get your daily fiber. my cpa told me i wouldn't qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. my father didn't know his dad. with ancestry i dug and dug until i found some information. birth certificate. wow. and then you add it to the tree. it's like you discover a new family member. discover even more at ancestry.com i dreamt you didn't cashback this flight. oh good. you got another mask? are you the ceo of cashbacking? no, you're not. earn big with chase freedom unlimited.

how do you cashback? >> woman: why did we choose safelite? earn big with chase freedom unlimited. we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? a breaking news story right now, what, we have a ton of mulch.

new reporting that israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, saying that he will pull back on parts of his controversial judicial overhaul. netanyahu speaking with bloomberg news earlier today in a concession that could be a major victory for opponents who say that his original judicial plans would undermine israel's democracy along with checks and balances. >> i don't think we should move from -- perhaps the activist judicial court in the planet to get to a point where the legislature can just knock out any decision

that the court makes. there has to be a balance. that's what we're trying to do. i'm absolutely sure that israel will come out stable, and successful, democratic. >> netanyahu saying that he will now only work next to change the makeup of the judge selection committee, same that ideological balance needs to be restored to the election of judges. all right, that does it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. alex is back next saturday at noon eastern, my friend yasmin vossoughian continues our coverage right now. >> hi, everyone. good afternoon. i'm -- sunday show blitz. donald trump's lawyer hitting all of the morning shows, laying out how he plans to keep the former president from going to jail on the election interference case. >> the defense is quite mp