right now on "andrea mitchell reports," ohio becomes the latest midwestern state where voters flocked to the polls in the august heat to protect abortion rights. a leading proponent of the massive turnout, former republican ohio governor john kasich. donald trump with a fiery new hampshire speech. >> i'm sorry. i won't be able to go to ohio today, to new hampshire today because i'm sitting in a

courtroom on bull [ bleep ] because his attorney general charged me with something. >> [ bleep ]. >> also a former obama cabinet secretary and leading conservative federal judge teaming up to defend democracy from what they see as new threats. the president cracking down on investments in semiconductors and other sensitive technology to china. how will beijing respond? massive wildfires in maui burning through buildings and forcing evacuations. good day everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york. voters in ohio turned out in the august heat in record-breaking numbers, an overwhelming reminder that abortion access is still a major motivator to draw supporters to the polls. unofficial results showing

ohioans voted to amend the constitution that passed. organizers calling the vote a huge victory. >> the majority still rules in ohio. [ cheers and applause ] >> and the people's power has been preserved because ohio voters like you showed up and overwhelmingly voted down issue 1. >> president biden declaring democracy won. recent polls indicate ohio's november referendum will now likely pass, and the momentum is spreading to other states. groups in arizona announcing efforts to get a similar initiative on their ballot.

joining me is nbc's ali vitali in columbus, ohio, nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander. and a founder of red, white and blue, that also opposed ballot issue 1. ali, more than 3 million ballots were cast, far exceeding everyone's expectations. >> it's a stunning number. we saw turnout already high for yesterday morning when we started out covering election day. to see more than 3 million ballots cast is a real sign of the momentum on the ground here. i spoke with one couple as they were walking out of a polling place yesterday, and i asked them, are you people that vote regularly here in every election. they said no, this one between media coverage and the issues that were specifically at play here had them coming out on a

tuesday in august. again, a real sign of the continued energy on the ground. i think what's important, when you look at the results, though, the fact that 57% of ohioans came ought to say no to issue 1 and made it harder for them to pass an abortion protection amendment in their constitution in november is why i asked the republican secretary of state, if this fell, what do you regret, this approach they took here. >> if it fails, any regrets about the approach? >> no. it's better than fight and lose than never to fight at all when it's a worthwhile cause. >> reporter: what's fascinating, andrea, even as republicans like larose say they're doubling down, it's clear when you look at th in the larger picture of the post dobbs environment, the fact you've seen red states like ohio and before that in kansas

voting on the side of abortion access, it's a real wake-up call for republicans. >> katie, talk to us about how you and mostly women mobilized this campaign. it's the middle of the summer. it was republican legislature, assuming they can find people being asleep and not coming out to the polls. >> we were not asleep and we're so hopeful today in ohio. andrea, people were setting off fireworks in some neighborhoods last night, just exuberant about these results. the way we did it is we organized. this started back in march when we new this special election was a possibility but not a certainty. it started then because we needed to collect signatures to put reproductive freedom on the ballot. red white and blue collected over 710,000 signatures to do that. that meant we were talking to a lot of voters every single day. every single voter we said,

you're signing this to put this on the ballot. something we need to do in the meantime is vote no on august 8th. people listened and they repeated it back to us. we did it by organizing, we were motivated to protect our democracy, stand up for our state and have a voice here and, yes, protect reproductive freedom. you saw that in the enormous turnout. we saw swings in suburban counties they went for republican j.d. vance last november, we're seeing swings up to 25 points. so i think republicans are being sent a big message here. guess what? it's not just about trump. it's about the extremism that they are trying to sell and people don't want it and they can't just hide behind trump because they did this all by themselves. >> peter alexander, from the

white house perspective, you know you don't win the white house without winning ohio. that's been true for democrats for certain. so are the president's people saying? >> reporter: i think the sense is this is bigger than ohio. this is now a national issue. think about it. you're in the middle of august. abortion rights was not technically on the ballot. this would have been a little-noticed fight over arcane constitutional fight. instead they brought out more than 3 million people in that state. the president, the white house, the dnc are all thrilled by this. the president saying this measure was in his words, to further erode the freedom of women to make their own health care decisions. he said democracy won. he says it speaks volumes that they'll vote will ensure the people's power isn't diminished in forthcoming elections including a critical referendum on whether the women in ohio have the freedom to make their

own health care decisions. the evidence keeps piling up related to abortion rights. look what happened not too far back in kansas. the state supreme court in wisconsin getting a democrat judge to help fill out the court there as well. looking ahead to 2024, democratic activists right now are looking to as many as ten states where they want to put abortion protections on the ball lot in some form which could surge their voters, including states like arizona where it's not going to be just a key presidential race, senate race, but florida another state that could see this on the ballot. >> katie, how do you keep this momentum going into november? >> we're just so excited that we finally get to vote yes no. we didn't want to have this special election. this was forced on us by our republican supermajority state legislature. they charged us as taxpayers close to $20 million to hold the

election. we wanted to be organizing for reproductive freedom in november. i think this all is going to backfire on them because during the election process we were talking about reproductive freedom, talked about houp you have to vote no in august before you can vote yes in november. we have been out there organizing friend to friend, among family members, and we're going to keep on rolling. people are under so much momentum now. we have so much confidence going forward. we also know, because republicans are saying it very loudly -- i don't get why they don't take a lesson here, but they're doubling down. we have our work cut out for us. we saw the disinformation and how bad it got in the lead-up to yesterday's vote. we expect that to continue and ramp up once again. we're ready to work and we're excited to finally say yes to reproductive freedom in ohio. >> katie, thank you for being with us, and ali vitali and

peter alexander, of course. later we'll talk to republican governor john kasich about all of this. that's coming up. in hawaii wildfires are forcing evacuations, closing schools and causing power outages. the 911 system down in west maui. officials say the fire has burned one of the most popular tourist destinations in the state. the national weather service says hurricane dora passing south of the island is partly to blame for the wind gusts of more than 60 miles an hour. donald trump defiant on the campaign trail as he suggests he will ignore any court order reigning in what he can say about his latest indictment or more specifically about the secret grand jury testimony and what that means for the case and the 2024 campaign. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in just 60 seconds. stay with us.

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former president trump lashing out at the special counsel's request to prevent him from revealing secret grand jury testimony that is turned over to the defense in his washington, d.c. criminal trial on the alleged conspiracy to overturn the election. >> how can my corrupt political opponent, crooked joe biden, put me on trial during an election campaign? i'm sorry. i won't be able to go to iowa today or new hampshire today because i'm sitting in a courtroom on bull [ bleep ] because his attorney general charged me with something. >> [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. >> these latest comments come ahead of a hearing on friday where federal prosecutors and the trump legal defense team

debated the scope of a protective order proposed by special counsel by the former president to the judge overseeing the 2020 election criminal case. joining me is nbc's garrett haake, former u.s. attorney and fbi official chuck rosenberg, former u.s. district attorney mary accord. andrew and mary are co-hosts of msnbc's prosecuting donald trump podcast i should say. prosecutors propose protective orders. he's saying he can't speak at all about the case when he can. it's just protecting the grand jury testimony. hearing what a new hampshire crowd responding to his call with bs, bs. that's a new campaign refrain i

guess. >> i guess the 2023 version of build the wall i suppose. the former president is conflating the protective order, he's already under one in new york. there's going to be a hearing on friday about one in the special counsel's case with a broader gag order which has not been imposed in either case. the political upshot of what he's trying to do is say his right to make political arguments about this case which he believes is purely political is being curtailed. as you rightly point out, a protective order will prevent him from talking about specific elements of evidence produced in discovery, something the government lawyers are giving to his lawyers that's not already been made public. particularly in the new case related to election interference and january 6th, pretty much everything we know about this case has already been made public, either in the second impeachment or the january 6th committee. it's hard for me to imagine there's much donald trump wants to say about any particular issue or any particular figure

caught up in that investigation that has not already been made public in some form. his complaints are designed to kind of rally his base to get them behind him in this idea he's being further targeted, further revented from somehow speaking his mind on this issue. >> andrew, i know he's out on bail and technically there are penalties if he does violate the order and continues threatening the judge, the prosecutor. he's the former president and he's running for praets. how does a federal judge impose any kind of penalty aside from jailing a former president for speaking out, especially in this political climate? >> i think she won't be thinking about the political climate. it's true she will be weighing these first amendment issues about his commenting on the merits of the indictment, as garrett said. this is about not threatening

witnesses, identifying witnesses, denigraing witnesses, all of that is prohibited. the judge can do a number of things. the most draconian thing, if he continues, is to jail him. there are all sort of things that can be done in terms of restricting what he can say, having it reviewed by counsel before something goes out, fining him if it continues. that is, it's basically incremental punishment. the judge in terms of what we've seen so far seems very on top of this case and is not taking any nonsense. i think she's just going to craft what is a really standard thing which is a protective order. as garrett mentioned, there already is one in the mar-a-lago case, there is one in the new york case. this is not terribly controversial to basically protect witnesses and the sort of very sensitive material that's in the discovery. >> chuck rosenberg, i heard you

say you rarely prosecuted a case without a protective order. usually the defense agrees with it, even during arraignment. in this case when the president is framing it as freedom of speech where the defense lawyer was on five sunday shows framing it as freedom of speech, how do you counteract that? how does a judge do that? she doesn't have the way of politics, she shouldn't. that's the atmosphere. one thought that comes to mind, is there any way to restrict what he actually sees? you have to give the defense and the defendant access to all of the material. this is brady material, right? they have to be able to see what the defense -- what the prosecution has? >> andrew laid it out succinctly, and he's right. these are standard, they are routine. but there are steps you can take

to either monitor through mr. trump's lawyers what he sees or perhaps even restrict what he sees. let me biv you an example where that would be appropriate. if you're prosecuting somebody for -- in a national security case when we prosecuted the 9/11 case in the eastern district of virginia, the 9/11 conspirator that we charged obviously didn't have a security clearance. his lawyers did. they had access to classified information. he did not, and that remained true throughout the pretrial proceedings. ideally you would have a defendant who acts like an adult, who takes these matters seriously and abides court orders. that may not be the case with mr. trump. to andrew's point, the judge can craft incremental measures to either punish him or restrain

his use of sensitive information that identifies witnesses. she won't interfere with his political speech. he's free to talk at rallies. he's free to say whatever he wants. she can craft means to guide this discovery process and keep him in check. >> mary mcchord, i want to play another clip from his speech in new hampshire. it could be another preview of his defense. >> then they have this crap going on -- i never even thought of this one. trump didn't really believe he won the election. listen. people that know me, that's one thing -- i tell you. there was never a second of any day that i didn't believe that election was rigged. >> so do you think they can disprove this, that they already put out in the indictment? >> well, i would say, you know, i think the indictment does a really good job in every single section of explaining how many

people told mr. trump repeatedly that there was no evidence of any fraud that would have been outcome determinative after the 2020 election, not in any of the swing states, not in any of the places where he claimed that dead people had voted and ballots had been counted multiple times. this advice came from not only his own attorney general, his own department of justice, his own white house counsel, his high-level presidential advisers, but it also came from republicans in the states where he was putting pressure on state officials to find the votes that he needed, or to overturn the results of their state elections. so i think the indictment goes through pains to point out it would have been utterly unreasonable for mr. trump to actually believe that he had won the election. and the question whether he really honestly believed it or not is something the jury will

have to determine after they hear the evidence. the question of the he honestly believes it, that's not a complete defense to the charges in this indictment. it may impact his state of mind for some of them. the example that keeps getting bandied around. you can't believe you're owed money from the bank or someone, you can't go steal it because you believe you're owed it. there's a lot at play here with this indictment. >> i see you nodding your ascent, andrew. clearly you have to prove intent, but that's not whether or not he believed it or had reason to believe it. he also can't reasonably argue that he was doing it on advice of attorney because of john eastman's memo because all of his white house counsel and many others including former attorney general bill barr told him he lost the election.

>> the advice of counsel doesn't really apply to so many things that are charged. the one thing has to do with the power of the vice president. it's unclear how he would get that into evidence. the advice of counsel means you reasonably relied on your counsel. the former president has a history of not caring what his lawyers say. look at the entire mar-a-lago indictment. the lawyers were telling him not to do all the crimes that were charged. he would have a hard time showing that even if there was legal advice, that he was relying on it. it's something he may raise in court, but i don't see it prevailing. >> speaking of advice of counsel. can you update us about the memo that apparently could be very incriminating, alleged co-con spoir tore kenneth chesebro.

>> reporter: "the new york times" have gotten their hands on one of the earliest pieces of paper laying out what would become the fake electors' plan and efforts to overturn the election. the memo purports to be written by kenneth chesebro, thought to be one of the co-conspirators involved in the broader plant. it includes language suggesting that its author knew this plan was likely to be thrown out by the supreme court and had other problems with it. it's described as sort of bold but maybe not going to work, in a way that sort of pokes holes at itself even as it's being thought out here. it's consistent with other evidence that we've seen that the january 6th committee has gotten their hands on and so forth. it does appear to be kind of the early genesis of what became

this broader plot. we at nbc news are very interested in getting our hands on that memo. >> garrett haake, chuck rosenburg, mary mcchord, thank you. the new effort under way to boost the trust americans have in the voting process and safeguard our democracy. that's coming next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. mitchell reports" on msnbc. astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley.

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with former president trump indicted and persuading almost a third of americans that the election was stolen, the nation's lawyers are fighting back. the american bar association launching a new task force today to improve voter confidence in the electoral system. one of its co-chairs is former federal judge jay michael luttig saying the day before the january 6th insurrection that former vice president mike pence could not legally block the counting of the electoral college vote to ratify president biden's win. he also then explained why he believes donald trump remains a clear and present danger to american democracy. >> the former president, his allies and supporters pledge

that in the presidential election of 2024, if the former president or anointed successor as the republican party presidential candidate were to lose that election, that they would attempt to overturn that 2024 election, but succeed in 2024 where they failed in 2020. >> joining me are the two co-chairs of the new aba task force group, american democracy, former federal judge jay michael luttig and former homeland

security secretary jeh johnson. mr. secretary, talk to us about the goals of this task force. one is depoliticizing these elections, another is educating the public on the basics. you're dealing with elected secretary of states and seeing how thungs can be distorted. how do you get past the politics? >> first, andrea, thanks for having us on. taking on this task with judge michael luttig as co-chair, one of the heroes, in my judgment, of january 6th has been a real honor for me. and i consider it the capstone of my career in public service. andrea, we know now that, in fact, our democracy is frail. we like to say we're the most enduring democracy in the world, and we always have peaceful transfers of power. wu now know that's not true.

there are those in public life today who would like to push us to our breaking point. i'm pleased to be part of this effort. we recruited an extraordinary assemblage of distinguished americans to take part in this task force, not just lawyers. retired judges like judge luttig, law school deems, republican and democratic, former presidential candidates likefiorina, director mark more yell, director of the national urban league but also conservative commentators like bill kristol and over the next year will be engaging in a listening tour going around the country, making recommendations and issuing a report about a year from now to the aba. everything will be on the table from the manner in which

cybersecurity, social media, conventional media contribute to or detract from our democracy, the protection of election workers on the ground in places like georgia, michigan and arizona. but also the very manner in which we elect candidates to federal office. it's a big task that we'll undertake over the next year. i'm pleased to undertake this with judge luttig. >> judge luttig, you can see that donald trump now is the overwhelming favorite for the republican nomination, and the most recent poll, a cnn/"new york times" poll had the polling at 43/43 if it's donald trump versus joe biden. the nation is so divided. do you still feel his election would be a clear and present danger, and he would try to

overturn an election if he lost it. >> thank you, andrea, for having secretary johnson and me on this morning. the american democracy is the most important issue facing the country between now and 2025. and, of course, the 2024 election is an integral part of that future history of america. lawyers actually are uniquely qualified and uniquely positioned to support and defend our democracy and our constitution and our rule of law. lawyers take a pledge and an oath actually to support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign, but also

domestic, if not especially domestic. so this task force that's been established by the american bar association under the leadership of its newly elected president, mary smith, is a significant event in the history of the country. and it's an honor for me as it is for secretary johnson to co-chair this task force. the task force, andrea, is perhaps the most distinguished task force or committee that i'm familiar with in my lifetime in washington, d.c. it's comprised of national leaders, and national leaders who are eloquent and articulate

about american democracy and the threats to american democracy. and for the past two years almost every single one of these task force members have been leading the nation on this critical issue facing the country now. so thank you for having us with you. >> secretary johnson, do you still believe that there is a real threat right now in our electoral system to the survival of democracy in america? >> yes, i do, andrea. if you look at the larger picture, an alarmingly large percentage of americans believe that the 2020 election was stolen contrary to all available evidence and court rulings. there's also a very large percentage of americans

according to polls that believe perhaps we should try something else other than democracy, and there are some who apparently would be willing to resort to violence if a candidate they support is not elected. and we saw that spill over on january 6th. an important part of this task force effort is going to be to remind americans that their vote counts, their vote matters, their vote is important and their vote is the essence of democracy and democracy is the root of everything else we enjoy in this country, frankly. >> i want to thank both of you. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, retired federal judge michael luttig. thanks both of you for taking on an enormous task. we look forward to seeing your work. >> thank you, andrea. >> thank you.

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due to the special election win in ohio is putting abortion rights advocates on a path to continue sweeping states with

abortion initiatives on the ballot. joining me is former ohio republican governor john kasich. thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you, andrea. >> did the party misread the electorate when it called for the special election in august, i think the republican legislature thinking there would be a very low turnout? >> i think two things, andrea. of course, abortion was a big part of this. people i said all along are not in the extremes. what they don't want to do is be in the extreme area of abortion, they're looking for moderation, both sides. some don't want it too late, some don't want it too early, all that kind of stuff. the other issue here, andrea, this was a proposal that would have made it more difficult for people to have their say, to be able to put things on the ballot. listen, i suffered a major defeat early on when i was governor, and the people

rejected something that i thought was important and significant. i took the defeat. i listened to the people. they won, i lost. that's okay. we move on. the idea that we were going to make it more difficult for people to put things on the ballot, it was not something i believed in. i early on said i didn't support this measure as did a number of other republican former statewide officeholders. it's a combination of the abortion issue, which again, i think most people believe we should be in a reasonable position, not in the extremes. i think, also, this whole business of making it more difficult for people to put things on the ballot. i happen to think it's okay and good for people to put things on the ballot. this has been a law in ohio since 1912. there really wasn't any reason to change it. this coming november, we're going to see abortion, legalizing marijuana, all going

to be on the ballot. we'll have to see what the people have to say. >> i know when you were governor, you vetoed i think several times fetal heartbeat measures, but you did believe in exceptions in 20 weeks and exceptions for the life of the mother, rape and incest. so you hue to that middle line as far as where you think the american public is. i heard the republican sponsor of this saying that abortion really mobilized the turnout. >> there's no question. it's an intensity issue. so when you look at turnout, a lot of it has to do with intensity, who is really fired up to get out there and vote. i think that the forces that thought that the -- that this was going to restrict their ability to put something on the

ballot they felt was more reasonable would be a loser. so in a lot of ways, it was about abortion. andrea, again, i think where people are is, again, stay away from the extremes and try to do something that connects with the public. to the pro-lifers, i think the view is, you save as many babies as you can in recognition of where people are on this issue. i think when you look at the results, you'll find out it wasn't just democrats that voted against this thing. there were a number of republicans that did as well. like i say, a lot of former statewide ohio republican officials came out against it. governor taft came out against it, former attorney generals. i think now that they've lost this thing, i understand some of the leaders are saying, well, we didn't have enough time or other people came out against it. no. i think what they should have

said was, hey, we heard what the people have said, and we'll try to adjust accordingly. >> former ohio governor john kasich, thanks very much for being with us. >> thanks, andrea. the big squeeze. later today new restrictions on american investment in china and a new executive order from the president. what that means for already strained relations with china coming up. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. watching "andreal reports. this is msnbc. out this ♪ ♪ yeah, ♪ ♪ so let's get it ♪ ♪ i'm feeling good vibes ♪ (christina) wanna know the secret ingredient to running my business? (tina) her. (christina) being all over, all at once. (tina) all the time. (christina) but my old network wasn't cutting it. and that's not good for baking. or judging. or writing. so, we switched to verizon, the network businesses rely on. with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data.

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the president plans to issue an executive order this afternoon restricting u.s. investment in some high-tech industries in china, including quantum computing, artificial intelligence, and advanced semiconductors. it's part of an effort to stop the transfer of american dollars and expertise to beijing. it could set the stage for more restrictions on investments between the two countries. and joining me now is richard haass, president emeritus, and author of the bill of obligations, the ten habits of good citizens. richard, welcome. how is beijing going to react to this? and how impactful do you think this is? >> china will see this as the latest shoe to drop of an american effort to essentially keep it down, to slow its economic growth, and the reason is, andrea, that you really can't get the -- about their potential application for military use or fueling the

chinese economy across the board. it doesn't take place in a vacuum. it takes place in a context where u.s./chinese relations have been deteriorating pretty broadly across the board. so it's obviously not going to be well-received in china. >> the president has been trying to reset the relationship. he's eager for that long-delayed phone call that was supposed to happen in february. he said it was going to happen soon, it hasn't. of course, the balloon shootdown was the precipitor of all of that. before that the pelosi visit they were upset about taiwan. we're about to have the vice president of taiwan coming through the united states, and that's going to set off another round. there have been aggressive actions, chinese, you know, partnering with russian warships, you know, approaching alaska. all of this. at this point, why do you think the administration is doing this rather than, you know, worrying

about secretary raimondo about to go to china supposedly? >> i think they're caught, and there's a dilemma here. the administration wants to set what the president calls a floor under u.s./chinese relations. this is a relationship looking for -- almost looking for a rationale. are there things we can avoid? for example, you want to avoid conflict over taiwan. are there potential areas we can cooperate? we've obviously failed to cooperate on north korea. we're not doing much of anything on climate change. maybe, just maybe down the road, we can find some limited ways to work together in ending the war between russia and ukraine. but again, the economic area is really difficult, andrea. secretary of the treasury janet yellen talks about a high fence and a small yard, and the idea is to put really strong controls on a limited amount of technology. the problem for the administration is the area of controls keeps growing. we still haven't gotten rid of

some of the basic tariffs that were put into place against china by the previous administration, by the trump administration, and they're caught. they don't want to look weak on china domestically. they want to try to create a new phase of the relationship, but the details keep getting in the way. >> and they are hoping that president xi is going to come here to san francisco for, you know, a summit meeting, not a bilateral, but they'll obviously have a one on one meeting and be here in the united states in the fall. >> yeah, november on the margins of the so-called apec summit. i think that's important. you've had the meeting with the secretary of state. you've had the treasury secretary, henry kissinger has been over there. even bill gates has been over there. china's run by xi jinping, the president of this country has enormous latitude.

there's no substitute for the two individuals at the top meeting. on the other hand, i think it's wildly unrealistic to expect or predict any breakthroughs. this is just a very difficult era in u.s./china relations, and i think we have to accept that. >> richard haass, thank you very much, and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember to follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right after this very short break. right after this very sho break. (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -baby: ah.

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good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we don't yet know exactly when donald trump is going to trial, but we do know he won't go quietly. the former president coming out swinging in new hampshire, framing a routine request from prosecutors as a fight over free speech. what it tells us about the challenge ahead for the judge, the attorneys, and the legal system itself. plus, paradise going up in flames as wildfires ravage the lush landscapes of hawaii. authorities telling stories of tourists having to jump into the water to escape the smoke and fire. so what's causing it and how bad could things get? and an unelected democratic state prosecutor and an elected state democratic prosecutor in florida calls ron desantis a weak dictator after he suspends