>> success means. >> overcoming adversity. >> that brings me to the last one. i was going to say, adversity for sale means -- >> adversity for sale means that you learn from your failures. you don't fail. just know i had to fail my way here. i didn't succeed the whole way. so i'm giving you my playbook. >> i love that. >> got to believe. >> thank you for coming through. >> thank you for having me. >> and we wish all of hip-hop a happy 50th anniversary today. you can find me at arimelber.com, and joy reid takes over right now. tonight on "the reidout" -- we don't want you to speak about the case. the case. sir, we'd like to talk to you about your case. i'm sorry, i'm not allowed to talk about it. somehow, that's not good for votes. do you agree?

i would love to talk -- i will talk about it. they're not taking away my first amendment rights. >> donald trump claiming earlier this week that no one is going to stop him from speaking about his criminal case. today, judge tanya chutkan laid down the law and told trump's lawyer that trump's words will have consequences. and the first amendment is not absolute. plus, attorney general merrick garland appoints a special counsel to investigate hunter biden? and republicans are predictably complaining about it after spending months demanding exactly that. and good evening, everyone. happy friday. tonight was a big night for donald trump, who discovered that after all, at least to the criminal justice system, he is no different from anyone else. despite his fame and political prominence, he can't just publicly abuse witnesses because he's on the campaign trail. the judge who taught him that lesson today is named tanya chutkan. i have a bunch more to say on her in a bit, but we begin "the

reidout" tonight with something along those same lines. and it is the truism that sometimes things are not as they seem. even when they involve hollywood stars and former presidents. for example, today in hollywood, actors and writers continue to walk the picket lines, still unable to reach an agreement with the studios and producers like netflix. a reminder that while our perception is that hollywood is this glamorous place where all the actors and writers are fabulously rich, for the vast majority of them, that isn't true at all. artifice is a big part of hollywood. making you believe things that aren't real. the same is often true in politics. "the washington post" reports this week that tommy tuberville, the alabama senator currently holding up all u.s. military promotions due to his opposition to abortion, including leaving the army and marines leaderless, and whose obstruction appears to have cost alabama the headquarters of space command

which will now remain in colorado, reportedly doesn't even live in alabama. the senator angtually lives in florida. his wife has a florida real estate license even and he hasn't actually lived in the state he represents for years. they even included a link to this video in which tuberville says after retiring as a football coach, he moved to florida. but tuberville got elected to the senate not because he was a good politician or had great idea. he got elected because he was a famous football coach who used to coach at auburn university in alabama. so alabama republicans gleefully replaced actual civil rights hero and one term democrat, senator doug jones with tuberville. because it just sounded right to them, right? auburn coach becomes alabama senator. and if his voters don't like the fact he doesn't actually live there, well, they're out of luck until 2026 when he's up for re-election. tuberville, of course, is not the only interesting character living in florida. roger stone, the proud boys,

michael flynn, and of course, donald trump lived there, too. trump moved to florida after he became president after building a career in new york that convinced most people that he was a successful real estate billionaire. so powerful was that myth that he landed the apprentice, which turned him into a celebrity. and then he became president of the united states, same formula as how tuberville became a senator. and i just don't think that people think enough about how much the artifice that got him here is why it is so hard for people who support trump and even some who don't really to believe that he committed crimes. even when the evidence says that he absolutely totally did. people enjoy believing in hollywood mythology and worshiping the rich and famous. it is endemic to american culture. remember the show, lifestyles of the rich and famous? it was a huge hit, just like the apprentice was. and for a lot of people who look up to trump as a rich celebrity they idolize, it's just easier to believe that he wouldn't commit crimes because he

wouldn't have to. he's just being set up by his enemies. and while the actual facts say no, joe biden did beat celebrity president donald trump, the idea that trump really won just seems more believable to a lot of fellow americans. the famous guy winning just makes more sense to them. and trump has used that perception of himself to grow his support into something more than fandom, he's used his celebrity to grow himself a religious cult. and he's using his superfans' ardent support to try to build a wall around himself, that he hopes will keep him out of prison. because all he needs is one superfan on his juries to throw the government's case against him. all he needs is one friendly judge, hey, florida. he just needs one juror who believes that all celebrities are rich and rich celebrities don't commit crimes. but what if america in next year's election once again chooses the real politician over the celebrity? i mean, it is likely to happen.

a poll round up by political strategist simon rosenberg shows a consistent three to four point lead for biden. it's an outcome that could trigger a replay of 2020 all over again. if trump goads his supporters with the big lie 2.0. we also have to consider the flip side, what if he wins? let's just entertain this frightening hypothetical for a moment, that it's november 2024, and trump is declared the winner of the election. nightmare scenario, i know. but what if democrats, democrats in key states, object to certifying his electors? based on the 14th amendment. it's a question two constitutional scholars tackled for more than a year, and then they spoke to "the new york times." these are conservative scholars, i should add, who are active members of the federalist society. the conservative legal group and proponents of originalism, the method of interpretation that seeks to determine the constitution's original meaning. one of those professors, william body, summarized their

conclusion saying, quote, donald trump cannot be president. cannot run for president. cannot become president, cannot hold office, unless two-thirds of congress decides to grant him amnesty for his conduct on january 6th. this is based on a little known provision of the 14th amendment which bars people who have engaged in an insurrection from holding government office. the intent was to prevent the president from allowing former leaders of the confederacy to regain power within the u.s. government. congress can remove the prohibition, the provision says, but only by a two-thirds vote in each house. now, of course, these findings don't change the fact that trump supporters are determined to elect him again. but they will boost, they will help boost these lawsuits that could be filed arguing that trump is indeed ineligible to be president. professor michael stokes paulson, the second scholar, said, quote, there are many ways

that this could become a lawsuit. presenting a vital constitutional issue that potentially the supreme court would want to hear and decide. joining me now is laurence tribe, who has taught constitutional law at harvard law school for five decades. great to see you, professor tribe. i'm officially obsessed with this scholarship by these federalist society judges that i don't normally say that. what's fascinating about it is what they're saying is that it is unquestionably fair to say that donald trump, this is what they're saying, engaged in the january 6th insurrection through both his actions and inaction. therefore, they say that under the 14th amendment's article three, he cannot be even in some cases added to the ballot to be president of the united states. and people can sue over that and make that claim. what do you make of their argument? >> well, i think that there's a great deal to be said for it. you don't have to be an originalist, somebody who thinks that the constitution's meaning

has to be excavated from the history and what people understood it meant at the time. in this case, it's simply the straight up language, 14th amendment section 3 says that anybody who takes an oath to uphold the constitution and thereafter engages in or gives aid and comfort to an insurrection cannot hold any office under the united states, period. now, back in i think it was spring of last year, judge michael luting, a distinguished conservative and i, both wrote that we thought those words meant exactly what they said. a lot of people have said, oh, no. you have to take them in light of an 1869 decision rendered by chief justice chase in a case called enray griffin. these two scholars do a terrific

job of shredding that circuit court opinion by one supreme court justice. so what is left? what's left is a kind of practical argument, some people say that provision can't be self-executing. it can't just rise up out of the ashes and grab politicians and say, sorry, you were an insurrectionist, you can't run. there has to be implementing legislation under section 5 of the 14th amendment. but there's nothing in there that suggests that you need new legislation, and anyway, all 50 states have laws called laws where you can ask by what warrant do you hold this office. and the only modern decision applying this language used that law or something just like it in new mexico to say that a county

commissioner who had actually taken part in the insurrection though he hadn't been convicted of any insurrection crime, only of trespass, couldn't hold his office. now, an appeals court never ruled on that because the case became moot. he lost an election. but i would imagine that whenever donald trump tries to run in any particular jurisdiction, the secretary of state of that jurisdiction, whether on the basis of this article or little more obviously on the basis of this little pamphlet, the constitution of the united states, just read it and say wait a minute, you can't run. now, he will say, i was never convicted of insurrection. i was only convicted in the district of columbia under the indictment brought under other laws by jack smith. i'm assuming perhaps he will have been convicted before the election. but it is clear, you don't have to be convicted of insurrection in order to be disqualified.

now, when michael stokes paulson says i think the u.s. supreme court is going to be eager to rule on this, i beg to differ. i don't know about that. you know, they could easily duck. lower courts could say as a matter of real politic, we're not going to take this old language. we may be originalists when it comes to other things, but you know, here we're going to find a way out. so i'm not sure what's going to happen, but it is clearly a major issue overhanging any possible trump presidency. and i think it's going to be a major political issue going forward. >> you know, the thing is, what's fascinating is that there have already been two cases that have been brought. lawsuits against madison cawthorn and marjorie taylor greene on this exact basis in north carolina and georgia. in marjorie taylor greene's case, she escaped in with a victory. but in cawthorn's case, it got further but it was made moot because he lost.

here's what's so odd about this whole world we live in now. if this went to the supreme court, sitting on that court is clarence thomas who seems to be as chris hayes said so brilliantly last night, a kept man by very rich right-wing interests and whose wife is also an insurrectionist. she was in touch with eastman, she was sending emails trying to get the insurrection going. the supreme court would be in its most awkward position ever if clarence thomas had to be one of the people ruling on whether donald trump was equal to his wife. >> pretty awkward. i mean, it really does suggest that the only way out of this forest is right through the trees. for the electorate of the united states to decide we do not want this chaos. we don't want this would-be dictator who tried to hold on to power even though he had lost the election. we don't want him in office because once he's there, it's only his life expectancy that

will ever lead him to leave. and if he is defeated, yes, he might try again to find some way of grabbing on to power, but there's a big difference. this time, he's not going to be commander in chief of the military. he's not going to have the secret service trying to hold him in power. he's going to be an outsider trying to get in. and i don't think that's going to work. but we can expect chaos, and he's certainly trying in this trial to win through chaos. he's basically saying, you tell me that i can't name the witnesses, that i can't indirectly scare them? just watch me. and judge chutkan is pretty serious. she said no, you watch me. the more you try to make a carnival out of this, and the more you violate my rules which

are standard rules about not being able to disclose sensitive material like witness transcripts, the faster i'm going to get this trial going. i'm going to take your right to speedy trial even more seriously. and that puts him in quite a bind, as he wants to win in the court of public opinion. he hopes to get that one juror that will despite the fact that he doesn't really have any obvious defenses, legal or factual, that will just say, i don't think this celebrity could possibly be guilty. i think he's probably realistic enough to know that's less likely to happen. what he really wants is to delay, delay, delay. he may succeed doing that in florida but not in the district of columbia with judge chutkan. >> not at all, and in georgia, if he's convicted, as i recently found out, he cannot be pardoned

automatically by the governor. it's a commissioner, so even kemp couldn't save him. laurence tribe, it's been a treat. thank you so much. always great to talk with you. you have set us up perfectly for our next segment. up next on "the reidout," the no nonsense judge we wr talking about in trump's january 6th case warns him about what he can and cannot say as professor tribe was saying, without landing himself in even hotter water. as the doj prepares to turn over 11 million pages of evidence. "the reidout" continues after this.

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if there was a clear takeaway from today's dramatic hearing over the protector order in donald trump's 2020 election interference case, it's that judge tanya chutkan is living up to her reputation as a no-nonsense judge and she's clearly running the show. hiel she sided with the defense that the protective order request was too broad and it should only apply to sensitive material, she included the wince interview transcripts. she made it clear she was going to give trump the same rights she would any other citizen, no more, no less, regardless of his status as a political candidate. she said, mr. trump, like every american, has a first amendment right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. and when trump lawyers argued that trump should be given special treatment because he was a political -- he has a political campaign to think about and that the witness

testimonies like from his former vice president mike pence could become a political issue, the judge's response was, quote, he's a criminal defendant. he's going to have restrictions like every single other defendant, unquote. and before closing the hearing, she issued a stern warning to trump and his team to avoid statements that could intimidate witnesses, prejudice potential jurors or create a carnival atmosphere around the case, adding, even arguably ambiguous statements by the parties or their counsel if they could be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors can threaten the process. if that happens, she said, she would take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings, including moving up the trial date. joining me now is mary mccord, former principal deputy assistant attorney general and msnbc legal analyst. reading the notes, mary, of this hearing, i was like, ooh, don't play with judge chutkan. all of her responses were very

blunt, succinct, and definitive, but that last part i think is important because she seemed to be saying if you play with me, i'm going to make this trial earlier, and what the trump team wants is for the trial to be as late as possible. is that how you read it? >> absolutely. she says in many ways, the more inflammatory statements there are before trial, the more urgency we have to get to trial. and that's directly related to the type of rhetoric and inflammatory statement we have already been hearing from mr. trump. those have a direct impact on his base. they cause people to take actions. we did just see an attempted attack on president biden in salt lake city just two days ago or maybe it was yesterday. i'm losing track of time. but i think she's recognizing the threat, her other rulings, you know, being not as expansive as what the government asked but being very clear that sensitive materials include any witness

transcripts, witness statements, et cetera. making clear that mr. trump, although he can have access to that, can't write down any personally identifying information, can't have access to any recording devices. i mean, she's really treating him very much frankly like she doesn't trust him, but these are conditions you would put on somebody when you are worried about witness security. and she's worried about witness security. >> my favorite part of that about him not being able to, his notes need to be reviewed by his counsel if he takes notes after reviewing things, that the lawyer doesn't have to be in the same room with him, but then they have to review his notes, then she says, he has a history of being in possession of things he shouldn't. it's like, oop, reference to the florida case. this is one of the things that judge chutkan said to lauro, attorney lauro. you're conflating what your client needs to do to defend himself and what your client wants to do politically. his defense is supposed to happen in the courtroom, not on the internet.

that's making your point, what he wants to do is go out and say mike pence doesn't have the courage, he didn't have the courage, and continue to attack him. and then mike pence testifies. and there are other witnesses who don't have secret service who he could intimidate too, when he says if you come after me, i'm going after you, that seems like that was meant to be witness intimidation. if trump does it anyway, i understand that in theory, if he was a regular person, jail could be an option. is jail an option here? >> i mean, it certainly is an option in terms of if he violates conditions of release. and she did explicitly make a statement about if some statements could end up violating conditions of release. and she's prepared to take actions she thinks would be necessary to violate those. i think that jailing him pretrial would be a last ditch remedy. i think there are intermediate steps before that. there could be things, for example, like you may not post

anything on social media without clearing it through your counsel. something like that, if that was then violated, she could escalate that up to clearing it through the court. i mean, these things kind of aren't big measures but they're certainly short of detaining someone in a jail pretrial. and it's clear she's very worried about the kind of witnesses who don't have secret service. she specifically referenced that too. not every witness who you might want to talk about has protection and has security. >> and what about this january 2nd trial date. the prosecutors want a january 2 trial date. they're prepared to turn over that 11.6 million pages of discovery in first production. we're ready to go. that does put us just before iowa caucuses and new hampshire, but it seems like they want to get it done like basically new year's day, happy new year, let's get to trial. >> they clearly are moving very

fast. or wanting the court to move very fast. and it was kind of interesting today because at one point, judge chutkan kind of made a joke in talking to defense counsel, lie i can't wait to hear your response next week to the government's request on a trial date. because as they were complaining about this and that and the other, i think she was foreseeing that they are definitely not going to be agreeing to january 2nd. so i think that is an aggressive schedule. i saw the dates that the government laid out. but the fact is they also are turning over huge volumes of dicovery, and they can say, we have organized it very neatly, we have pointed you to everything we think is the most important, but defense counsel, they get to decide what they think is the most important, and they're going to want to look through everything. so i do think that i would do what the government did and make it very well organized and very easy to search and be able to tell the judge i did that. nevertheless, even if it's easy to search, you have to have the human beings to lay eyes on things. it would not surprise me if that

slips a bit. but i do think that this judge is not going to put up with shenanigans that are all about delay, delay, delay. >> no shenanigans, no tomfoolery, not going down in that court, i can tell just from reading the read out of what happened there today. mary is sticking around with me a little longer. we appreciate her being here because i need someone to help me understand why republicans who demanded a special counsel be assigned to the hunter biden case are so furious now that a special counsel has been assigned to the hunter biden case. make it make sense. i suffer with psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to

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to hear the right tell it, the only story you should care about is hunter biden, the president's son, who has no role in government. for months, they have used their house majority to relentlessly investigate him. now, what they have credibly revealed is that public figures and their children trade on their name for access. shocker. jared and ivanka did it, roger clinton did it, and so did hunter biden. however, that rnen fixation has only resulted in two tangible things. donald trump's first impeachment and launching a 2018 trump justice department investigation into hunter biden. the man in charge of that investigation, david weiss has been looking into whether hunter biden properly paid his taxes in 2017 and 2018. they were focused on a federal form hunter biden filled out

while purchasing a gun in 2018. he lied when he claimed he was not a drug user. he later admitted he was. to be crystal clear, the special counsel is not investigating the president of the united states. he's investigating his son. but that hasn't stopped republicans from accusing hunter biden of running a corrupt business enterprise with foreign cash that also benefitted his father. again, there's nothing inherently illegal from accepting money from foreign interests if you're a private citizen, even if your parent is a famous politician. you do however have to pay your taxes on it, which hunter biden is accused of not doing. last month, he agreed to a plea deal for failing to pay taxes and illegal gun possession. that deal fell apart after a trump nominated federal judge failed to accept it. merrick garland who has been accused of the right of running a two-tier justice system that only prosecutors conservatives announced he was appointing david weiss special counsel in the probe. he told him that in his

judgment, his investigation has reached a stage at which he he should continue his work as a special counsel. there we are. mary is back with me. question number one, since when are special counsels appointed for private citizens? i want to read you this. devon archer who is on the board of burisma holdings which only people who watch fox understand what that is, that was the company that hunter biden was on the board of as well when joe biden was vice president. he testified in front of the committee that wanted to take down joe biden that he's not aware of any wrongdoing by joe biden, that he never heard of a $5 million transfer or any transfer to joe biden and ukrainian prosecutor who was fired was not viewed as a threat by the company and hunter biden was selling the illusion of access to his father but never sold access to his father. ergo, joe biden is not involved in this, nor did he buy an illegal gun or was using drugs. why is a special counsel investigating hunter biden? >> well, the special counsel regulations provide that the

attorney general may appoint a special counsel when he concludes that it would be in the public interest. that's exactly what merrick garland did here. he did it, i think, also because david weiss asked him to do it. i think he concluded for the same reasons he said even before appointed him as the special counsel, he made it clear, mr. weiss made it clear that he had the ability and authority to operate pretty independently of the department of justice. i think mr. garland recognizes the sensitive nature of investigating the son of a president. you're right, he's a private citizen. it's about conduct he took in his private capacity, although there are certainly allegations that he tried to capitalize on his father's you know possession in government to help him win these contracts. that's certainly something that's being discussed and alleged. this is real a one where the attorney general said it's in the public interest because we do not want to have any appearance of favoritism toward

the president's son. excuse me. and until this week, mr. weiss had never asked for it. when he did ask for it, it would have been untenable at that point for the attorney general to say no. imagine what would have happened if he had said no. people on the hill are hollering right now about appointing david weiss somebody weeks ago they said should be appointed. >> so in other words, he's being treated differently because he's joe biden's son. i want to read this piece here. the particular gun charge that the feds brought against joe biden, this is from the daily beast, a drug user in possession of a firearm is rarely brought as a stand-alone crime. especially now that roughly a fifth of the country uses cannabis with a significant overlap with the nation's estimated 80 million gun owners, more than that, i think. when the feds bring this type of case, they come down hard, but it's usually a tool they use to bring down tough to commit

criminals. i think all of the evidence that i have seen so far in this case is that hunter biden, he could be a terrible guy. i don't know, never met him, is being treated worse than anyone else would be. he's being treated worse the way donald trump claims he's being treated worse, but he actually is. because normally this would just be misdemeanor stuff that would be done with. instead, he's endlessly investigated because of politics. that's my perception. what's yours? >> with respect to the gun charge, which i don't expect we'll see again because we now have a ruling from a circuit that that offense violated the second amendment after the supreme court's ruling last year in a different case, a second amendment case. i don't think we'll see that reappear. to your point, that charge was part of a negotiated plea agreement. so you know, there's lots of factors that go into that. there's a give and take from both sides. it was something that was subject to a diversion agreement, which means he, if he

complies with certain requirements for the period of two years, i think it was two years in that agreement, there would be no charge. so you know, i'm not going to say that i think he's treated totally differently because of that. i will say the very fact that david weisz was still even the prosecutor, forget the special counsel appointment today, even before that, he was a hold-over trump appointed u.s. attorney. normally, all of the president's u.s. attorneys resign on january 20th when the administration comes in. so already, there was some special treatment here or different treatment here, and it was all i think for political purposes. so it would not appear that the department of justice was going to replace a republican appointed prosecutor who is investigating the president's son. so politics are definitely a part of this, but that's i think why the attorney general said it's in the public interest to do this. >> make him hunter shobought

nick, he's not be prosecuted. coming up, the death toll continues to climb as searchers dig through the rubble left behind after wildfires tore across the hawaiian island of maui. we'll bring you the latest next. rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today.

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missing. nbc's tom llamas has the latest. >> reporter: tonight, the return to lahaina, residents allowed back in and we saw from the skies above the shock that awaits them. >> even at 400 feet in had air, you can smell the smoke days later and you look down and you can't make out what you're seeing. it looks to be a town that once existed but nearly every building, every house, every car scorched completely off the map. block by block, we see a grid of misery. once the capital of the hawaiian kingdom, a tourist mecca, and now a wasteland of ash and rubble. >> down there, there's the grid search for bodies happening right now. those that could not escape and the residents of lahaina believe the death toll is going to be much higher. and officials have warned that they expect to find even more bodies once they start searching building to building, house to house. we rode in with maverick helicopters usually giving tours. today saving lives. >> it's been heartbreaking,

almost hard to put into words what we have seen out here. >> reporter: their choppers carrying thousands of pounds of aid being unloaded by regular hawaiians looking to help. >> people are lying dead in the streets out here. hundreds of people are dead. i don't know what's really on the news. >> reporter: it's been terrible to see those images. >> devastating, horrible. they had no warning. it happened so fast, the winds were so strong. >> reporter: new video just in showing the power of the deadly fires, forcing so many to flee into the water, clinging to rocks amid crashing waves and thick smoke. for days, the catastrophic wildfires have burned in maui, carving a deadly path, likely becoming the largest natural disaster in hawaii's history. >> everybody lost everything. i don't know how you're supposed to feel. >> reporter: the cause of the fire is still under investigation and many residents say the flames erupted with almost no warning. >> my heart is just broken for

everyone. everyone who has lost someone, everyone who doesn't know where someone is. >> reporter: maui resident danielle tells me she can't get in touch with her grandmother who lived in an assisted living facility. >> what would you want to tell her? >> i would tell her, i don't want to tell her that we're looking for her, grandma, we're looking for you, if you can reach a phone, call us. let us know where you're at, or anybody can see her, is with her, knows who she is. just contact us. we just want to find some contact to get her. >> reporter: national guard recovery teams are on the ground in lahaina, working their way through neighborhoods where homes once stood. >> the full extent of the destruction of lahaina, it will shock you. it does appear like a bomb and fire went off. >> reporter: already this is among the most deadly wildfire disasters in the u.s., as the staggering scope of devastation continues to grow.

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why not give it a try? why would i sign a pledge when there are people out there i wouldn't have? i wouldn't have certain people, somebody that i would endorse. so they want you to sign a pledge. but i can name three or four people but i wouldn't support for president. >> surprise, surprise. less than two weeks to log into the first republican presidential debate of the 20

2024 campaign season, the twice impeached thrice indicted former president, who still refuses to admit that he lost the 2020 election, is now also refusing to sign a pledge to support the republican nominee if it's not him. surprise. joining me now is creative director at thegrio, of the durational podcast as well as the new animated series, star stories, which is really amazing. and jamele bowie, new york times columnist and co-host of the unclear and present danger podcast. it seems like it doesn't even matter if he's gonna sign this pledge because i can't see him supporting those candidates anyway if it's not him is not gonna tell his maga followers to vote for that person anyway, right? >> i think that's right. that's pretty much what happened in 2016. he refused to commit to supporting any other nominee, refused to accept the results of the election if you lost. we know how that played out for years later. his whole power over the republican party, at first, was

this fear among republican officeholders or elites that if he did not stay on his good side and he wasn't the nominee that he would lose voters. i think he still retains some of that now. he's not gonna meet the pledge because he doesn't need to. if he is a nominee. he still retains power to say no, i don't support that person. and that's what republicans are afraid of. >> and we talked a little bit earlier in the show, to ray, donald trump's power is that he is a celebratory, and for a lot of his supporters there not his supporters, or his fans. some voted for obama. they're not republicans, hard-core, they're just there for him. he's wrapping this cult around himself because he doesn't want to go to prison. he doesn't care about politics of the republican party. i don't understand why republican, elected republicans are somehow thinking they can bring him into the fold and have him be a republican.

>> this whole exercise of signing this pledge, this is specifically for trump, this is not something that we have ever seen parties do or even have to do. we have always assumed, if you came in number two in the primary, you would support the person who came in number one. that has always been the way. what it represents, what jamelle is saying, the party is really a trump party. it's not really the republican party. he has swallowed it whole. and some of the people in his belly or republicans, some are people who have never voted for there. but they'll come out for him, even if they typically voted democrat. they love him for all sorts of me reasons the media has cataloged endlessly, but they really are talking about him he has a cult personality, underlining the word cult. >> you know who it is a sign

manchin. it doesn't even know if he, he wants to pull a christian sinema. a, okay, does anybody really care at this point because he's probably gonna lose that relate campaign anyway. what do you think democrats ought to think about this? >> as much of as it's frustrating to democrats i think we should let joe manchin do his thing. you're at that he's not in a favorable position for reelection against republican nominee jim just, with current governor. i think he's looking for any way to separate himself from the national democratic brand and survive an office and if he feels he needs to be an independent that's fine for him and it wouldn't alter his actual behavior in congress that much. i'm not sure what material it's gonna make but it may help him stay in office. -- if it turns out that he wins and it's 50/50 senate again.

>> then it will be an oil company executive, which is what he is anyway. i'm willing to sign a pledge. i'm an old haboob fan and i believe love the fact that women in hip-hop are getting a moment to shine. and tony hilton did a great piece. big moment to shine. and tony hilton did a great piece. let me show a little piece of it. >> in the traditional female rappers like jackie oh, treanor, and missy elliott, their music is boastful and raunchy. the city girls often encourage women to take advantage of man. the draft position to the men in hip-hop, who have long degraded women. they say growing up in poverty in miami shaped the way they see the world and made both women determined to find financial freedom and control. >> but as where the great stephanie cargill, important to women in hip-hop, red? >> incredibly important. women have been part of this conversation in hip-hop. it has been a boys club at times, i'm a sergeant's stick, extremely, at times, but women

have been an important part throughout his pop. as you said, women are seeing, i having a great moment. nikki and -- are two of the most popular emcees in the game, and there is a large group of others, coyle of roy, ice spice, and others who are coming up. there's a lot of really interesting women to a lot of interesting work right now. really important. >> and old-school people like queen latifah. before i go, i want to invite my amazing guests to stick around to play a quick round of, who won the week? jamelle, who won the week? >> i have the strangest answer to this. william friedkin who passed away this week. but that's not why he won. he won because his passing has prompted people to reappraise and re-evaluate and look back at his career, and all of people know his big hit to the exercised and the french

connection. he had a long career afterwards with films like sorcerer and to live and die in los angeles, which are phenomenal films that i think people are paying more attention to and revisiting and talking and thinking about watching, which i think is a great thing for the late director and for people who care about movies. so william friedkin. >> especially during the writers strike in recognizing the artistry of great directors. all right, tyre, who, in your view, won the week? >> is there any other story in the week? everybody black in montgomery won the week for this especially the swimmer who got out of the boat because that is what he was taught to do. he was taught to come to the aid of his brothers and sisters when they are in need, and those of us who are parents, seeing that like oh, he feels the communal aspect of blackness. we love that. proud to see all those folks

rise up and fight back. >> i actually have an interview for who won the week, and it along and same lines because the hat man was amazing, the swimmer was amazing, all the brothers that marched in the defense of the hatch man, but here is my whole of the week. it is the freedom chair. i think we have an exclusive interview with the freedom chair. let's go to the freedom turn. our freedom chair, are you here? there he is. all right, freedom chair, please tell us, we know you were invented by a black man, by an african american. your thoughts on winning the week and on all the wind down in montgomery. tell us. oh, okay, i get it. you don't want to say nothing because you're trying to keep it low. i get it. i respect that, freedom chair. the freedom chair won the week, and that it. the freedom share one week in there he is. tyre and jamelle bouie, thank you very much. and thank you freedom chair. we know you had to keep quiet, but we understand. all in with chris hayes starts right now. h >> tonight on all in -- >> this case