broke, miles, in the recent op-ed. you said our democracy, the threat to, it isn't trump or the next trump. but the transformation of the gop base into a reactionary angry mob. it's not the way you see it? >> i do, alex. we are sitting right now on a ticking time bomb of political violence in this country. a lot of it coming from the far right. what worries me is i live inside of the state of all the time, and the data shows that it's not just reactionary political leaders like trump implementing violence. that their views have now been transmitted onto the base. you have these very favorable attitudes towards political violence, unlike anything we've seen in the modern era. i worry about what that means for us as a country, especially as we're going into 2024. and you can bet your bottom dollar that right now, it's the top concern that federal law enforcement, when it comes to homeland security. >> what a sobering discussion, you guys. thank you very much, miles and frank. good to see you. in just a few minutes, a day in

court for the donald trump legal team, who won, who lost, and the comments the judge made that the former president might not want to hear. also, a former army officer who was an adviser to the trump administration explained why his blood ran cold after reading jack smith's latest indictment. plus, the vice president talks exclusively to msnbc's reverend al sharpton amid new revelations about her role in the 2024 campaign. campaign. >> as i bid you all a very good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york, welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we're beginning this hour with some staggering the numbers. about the wildfires of this devastated murray this past week. the math now says it will cost five and a half billion dollars to be built from hawaii's governor says. we will likely be the worst natural disaster in the state's history. so, he comes as many residents return to assess what's left, if anything, of their homes. officials say more than 2200

buildings were destroyed. that majority of them residential -- meanwhile, authorities say 80 people were killed, and that death toll will likely climb in the coming days. nbc's steve patterson joins us once again from that we. so steve, let's get to the very latest on search and rescue operations. are they still classifying it as such? >> they are. in fact, they're very specific about this still being a search and rescue operation of maui. it has veered into the recovery effort as well, because they keep finding bodies every time they go into town. it's like what's going on right now, though, you may see a line of cars behind me. we are right on the side of the road up there. it's a roadblock. this road has been shut down pretty much all night. i've been speaking to people who have been in this line for upwards of 12, maybe 13 hours, living, sleeping, eating in their cars, finally, they had opened this roadblock after a curfew expired last night. so, these are people trying to go into see their homes, to see their neighborhoods, for the first time.

a lot of these people really don't have anything left. they left with the shirt on their backs, left with very little food, left without vital medication, left without their pets, left without knowing where their friends and families were. so, this is a big moment for today, we keep hearing they are going to continue to open access as this day goes on. and people will get to see what's left. in the meantime, yes, search and rescue efforts to continue. we know obviously, there's a lot of federal aid. state aid from different agencies, all pouring in. all in an effort to find out what is left in that town, at the list of missing keeps continuing to grow. in the meanwhile, people are coming back to find that what's going on here. alex? >> here's the question. hawaii's attorney general is conducting a review of all the decisions made leading up to and during the wildfires. as you know, steve. what are residents and authorities telling you about when warnings were dispatched? >> yeah, from what we've heard, most people did not hear

anything. and or talk about the official sirens, you have to remember in hawaii, they have one of the most sophisticated sirens systems in the world. 400 integrated sirens, all together. it should be able to notify hawaiians of what's going on. the states themselves said that those sirens did not trigger. although specific alerts did go off by phone, by text, by tv. by radio. however, when you are in a situation like this, with the fire burning, knocking at telecommunications almost instantaneously, a lot of people did not receive those texts and emails and whatever triggered and those other three systems. that wasn't the silent system, so now, there is that attorney general review to find out what exactly was triggered, how was the response, was it comparable? was up to the right standards? all of that part of the process. but for residents i spoke to, some people did hear some sort of warning. though, they say it was late or

distant. it may have been something else. it may have been local police with a loudspeaker, just trying to get people out of their homes. others say they heard absolutely nothing, and they're upset. they want to know why. alex? >> yeah, i bet they do. okay, steve patterson, thank you so much. it must of walk at least a quarter mile for us. thanks so much. i'm sure it's the start of that long, long line. thank you steve. this disaster hurts on so many levels, because it's not just the lives lost and homes and businesses destroyed. it is the history as well that is gone forever. at the bottom of the hour, the landmarks -- wiped out from those wildfires. developing this hour, former president donald trump arriving just a short time ago at the iowa state fair as he faces a raft of legal issues. his fellow gop rivals converging on the first in the nation state, mix to work and lake to voters in front of the iowa caucus in january. the news for trump though not. great many of his previous voters to nbc news they are considering new options. y ar considering new options.

>> i voted for trump the first two times, and if he is a candidate i will definitely vote for him again. i think it would be nice to have somebody come in with less drama and the trauma. >> i like what trump could do if he just kept his mouth shut. right? so that was the thing. i don't, he's not a good leader. i liked his philosophies and what he was trying to accomplish, but the way he went about it, not good. >> trump's campaign trip to iowa comes our after judge tanya chutkan put new limits on his ability publicly to discuss evidence related to his four election fraud charges. she also warned trump's team against making any inflammatory or ambiguous public remarks about the case. and the reaction from hunter biden's lawyer on the elevation of david weiss to special counsel. >> the people need to understand the attorney general and he, and he, mr. weiss, has said for a long time, that he had all the authority that he needed to bring any charge that was appropriate in any place. so, what does the special

counsel do that he couldn't do? the answer should be nothing different. >> and in a new, exclusive interview, nbc's rather, her own reverend al sharpton, sat down with vice president kamala harris to discuss the right range of topics, including the 60th anniversary of the march on washington, which is coming up on august 21st. >> i think that's when we look at the 60th anniversary of the march on washington, it must be to commemorate a historic day and a historic movement. but it has to also compel us to understand, movement is not over. >> and in a new memo from president biden's campaign includes that vice president harris will play a leading role in biden's 2024 campaign. you can expect to see much more of her. we're going to be talking to erin haines about all of this, later on this hour. but developing this hour as well, former president donald trump, then again, arriving a short time ago at the iowa state fair. again, facing the legal, just a raft of legal issues we say.

his fellow gop rivals converging on that first in that nation-state and i am so sorry, whereabouts go to a different soundbite that we don't need to play this time. let's go right now to ryan wylie. ryan, i'm going to ask you about the court room that you are inside yesterday. for the trump respective ordered hearing, as well as the news conference, announcing whether the hunter biden special counsel so as we go to that. what exactly does this protective order cover? what will it prevent donald trump from doing or saying, and how does it get enforced? >> actually, the descriptions on what he can do and say are more about his conditions of release rather than necessarily the documents. the documents are he's not allowed to make notes on what reference, and that is something that there is almost this babysitter quality to the discussions they were having about whether donald trump could look at this evidence on his own, whether you could be luck trusted to look at it and not take notes on whether you need a lawyer to be sitting alongside him, during and

ultimately, that sort of where they felt down, that donald trump is going to have to be accompanied or at, least have some sort of person nearby when he goes through all of these transcripts. because they don't want a lot of that information getting out in a way that could end up being threatening. i think, you know, touch check and it's very aware that he was speaking just a last hour about the sort of culture of threats that were in. yesterday, and especially for, a black, woman i think may even escalate even further. a black woman who is going to be any position of power over donald trump, and asked the ability to sort of rein him in. i think she wanted to make clear in that courtroom that listened, she is in charge, right? this case is about, she wants to bring this case forward. she wants to bring this case and bring about the administration of justice, and that's really the priority. whatever donald trump's job, as she referred to it, is running for president in this case, is taking a sidebar to that. that is not the priority here. the priority is making sure that they get this case and they get a jury that has not been impacted. they can select the jury that

can decide this case barely and moving forward without any threats. again, sending it to witnesses, which of course, in this case, includes the former vice president who is now running against donald trump for the republican nomination,. alex >> let me ask, you. ryan if we play some of what congressman jake auchincloss it's talking about 20 minutes ago or so about the appointment of the special counsel in the under biden case. take a listen. >> not just an independent investigator, but also one who was originally appointed by donald trump, which the republicans can conveniently forget when they attack him and attempt to politicize this independent investigation. and i would encourage americans, in both situations, to recognize that this is not the trump show. this is not the biden. show the protagonist in this is the rule of law. >> why did videotape feel necessary to appoint a special counsel? how does that potentially impact the congressional investigation? >> there is a simple

explanation for it, which is that the u.s. attorney for delaware cannot bring charges in other districts unless he has some sort of additional authority, in which, casey would need to be appointed special counsel in this case. most of the underlying current that we're talking about here took place in d.c. or in california. so, he really needs the authority to do that and that is sort of one of the explanations for why he needed to be put in this posionbecauseg to be a case in delaware, hunter biden could have waived his rights to tourist diction here and venue issues. but because there is not really a plea deal on the table anymore because this case is moving towards trial, that's not an option. if they brought this case is in delaware, immediately be tossed out, because that is not where the venue is. it's not where the elected prime took place. that's the same thing you see it with trump, where a lot of the conduct in mar-a-lago, they didn't end up bringing in d.c., even though a lot of the grand cherry investigation did happen here. because a lot of the conduct was actually focused in florida. of course, it's much different

of the january 6th case, or donald trump was in the white house in d.c.. during a lot of this underlying conduct. that is where the conspiracy, electric and spare seat, really was rather than florida. so, that's really what i think, ultimately, this could be about. so, it sort of could be a lot of spectacle and a lot of excitement over what was kind of more practical matter. that said, this hunter biden thing is going to bleed into the 2024 campaign at this point. there's just no way this goes away as he is leading. so, put a plea deal in place. >> a plea deal. point well taken. all right, ryan reilly, thank you. let's go to the iowa state fair, or donald trump is joining the wind field of candidates competing in front of the iowa caucus is just five months away. and with ron desantis today, about a special message from on high, in case you can't tell, that sign reads, be likable, ron! let's go to nbc's very likable conversation, ali vitali. no exclamation point, we love. what are you seeing there, ali? >> i'm honored to be likable

enough, alex. i think that's a good thing. but what we're seeing here at the state fair it's people who were open to liking more than just donald trump. although the polls still have him at the top of the pack, and he's remained there over the course of the last few months, that, despite multiple indictments and yet another one looming in georgia, likely this coming week, still what we're seeing and frankly, when i'm hearing from candidates and voters, is that might not be the first thing they are thinking about. i just caught up with former south carolina governor, nikki haley. she is also here, working but fair. barnstorming the state and sue her, this is still a game of playing retail politics, shaking as many hands as you can. but i asked her about the role of the former president here, and this is part of what she told me just in the last few minutes. what. >> you should want to touch as many hands as you can. you should want to answer every single question. we've done that. you, we didn't start spending yet because we didn't want to focus on building those relationships, earning trust, earning support, the right way. no short cut, snow coming and

doing a rally and leaving. it's making sure we answer the hard questions from every aisle when. so, or doing that. and campaign season is now getting ready to get started with the debate. we're looking forward to the debate, and will not get out of the park, and we're, off to the races. >> she's not wrong, there. alex the debates in past cycles have really marked the unofficial kickoff of campaign season. yes, candidates have been working these states, iowa, new hampshire, a least of state of south carolina, for months now. but once they hit the stage in milwaukee, that is really where all eyes are going to turn. i think it is striking, it's important to talk about the way that trump himself has been campaigning or rather, in states like this one, dropping in and flying back out. he does one big rally, that's always been the thing. even dike know that from when we started covering him in 2015 and 2016, but for someone like nikki haley, she is taking a much different grassroots approach. typically in states like iowa, there is an electoral reward for that. we haven't yet seen that coming up in the polls gets, but the hope is, according to haley

just now, once they get a little debate stage, whether trump is there or not, that is when voters are going to start to tune in, and that's when their whole thing, the polls could start to change. >> absolutely. step-by-step. but hey, ali batali, my likable friends, thank you. donald trump's legal team gets a warning from a judge. did she make herself perfectly clear? we've got the quotes, back in 60 seconds. (christina) being all overl (tina) all the time. (christina) but my old network wasn't cutting it. and that's not good for baking. or judging. or writing. so, we switched to verizon, the network businesses rely on. with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators

of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. >> more now on the new restrictions facing donald trump as he takes on the treacherous endeavor of campaigning on his multiple criminal indictments. in the face of a new protection order, preventing him from ranting about evidence in the election fraud case. joining me now, christie greenberg, former federal prosecutor in the southern district of new york, and luke broadwater, new york times congressional reporter. good to have you both here. ladies first here, kristie. so, judge chutkan wrote, the governments motions granted in part and the night in parts. how about you? what is your assessment?

who do you think one and who lost? >> well, i think this is a protective orders are very routine. this protective order is unusually stringent in several aspects. you have defense counsel, who has to maintain custody and control of any sensitive materials, which under this protective order, really amounts to a lot. a witness interview transcripts. the exhibits like along with them. you, know any materials that got from a search warrant or grand jury subpoena return. that's the bulk of the governments evidence, and donald trump doesn't get to keep that on his own. he can't have copies of. it under this order, he also can't write down personal identifying information. and defense council actually has to inspect any notes he takes to ensure that that order is complied with. he also review the material -- >> that's a question. why do his lawyers have to inspect notes? because i mean, can't he go

through there and say, this is what i need to know, and so they mean that he literally can't even write something down? >> you can write something down but before he is finished, they need, before he leaves that room, his lawyers need to look at it and make sure that he didn't indicate any personal identifying information that would be in violation of this order. and that's is a fairly extraordinary that the former president of the united states cannot be trusted to take notes and not violate the court order. he also can't bring in a device, any device, whether it's a cell phone and that specific mentioned in the order, or any other device that is capable of copying we're taking a photograph of the materials. so, the bottom line here is, not only does the government in its motion for these kinds of provisions and a protective order making clear they don't trust donald trump, but the judge agreed. and again, i don't think that's

unwarranted, given the record here. because as we know from the classified documents case, we certainly retains materials when he wasn't supposed to, and he is charged with obstruction and lying about it, in connection with other case. >> yeah. let's judge chucky to have covered all her bases on that one. so, the common secluded that once trump's would not want to hear. she referred to them as the criminal defendant, signaled she intends to keep politics out of the courtroom, but i'm curious about the process for enforcing her order. what is that and you get the sense she would put trump in jail if he was found to be in violation? >> yeah, i mean, that would be a very monumental step if that were to happen. you know, the judge sent a very clear message, which was donald trump is not special. in my courtroom, he is the same as everybody else. donald trump's attorneys have been trying to say he deserves special accommodations, essentially, because he's running for president.

he should be able to do some things that other criminal defendants would not be able to get away with. and she made that very clear, she considers his presidential run just a day job, just like anybody else. he's got to follow the law not intimidate witnesses, not lash out at witnesses and social media, and the like, the there is an issue here, though, which is that regular criminal defendants to sometimes get jailed if they attack witnesses. if they violate eight judges commands, and you know, so, and to bring that to the leading presidential candidates for the republican party and the former president would be a huge, huge step. so, i think the judge will be very cautious and reluctant before attempting to take such a step such as arrest or interest of donald trump. >> it would be difficult to keep politics out of the courtroom were that to happen, we must say. so, kristie, this is

interesting. the post reports trump has started modifying his speech for making his false stolen election claims, like my opinion, and what i think. if he being clever? does that protect him from anything? >> you know, i don't think it makes all that much of a difference. i think he is trying to distinguish that his opinions are somehow afforded more protection, but as judge chutkan very clearly stated, at the clearance this past friday, yes, donald trump has first amendment protections. but there are restrictions to those, just as there are for any other criminal defendant. and so -- really needs to be careful. again, every time there are public statements he makes about the case, whether they're qualifiers or not, it has the potential to pollute the jury pool, and really, you know,

disturb the integrity of the proceedings. so, she's going to be looking at those closely and some of the prosecutors. >> which may result initially speeding up the trial, if that is a concern. grave wine. luke, i want to get to the fact that you are one of three coauthors on this report on the secret memo outlining the fake elector scheme, in which the lawyer, kenneth chesebro, acknowledge from the start that he is proposing a bold, controversial strategy that the supreme court would likely reject in the end. so, what did you find out? >> right. so, you know, last year, we exposed some of the initial memos that laid out what's come to be known as the false electors scheme. but there was one memo we had not gotten our hands on, which was mentioned in the indictment. it was described as, by prosecutors, almost a fulcrum. when the plans overturned the election went from nearly the theoretical into a plan of action, where the false

electors are given marching orders. the plan expands across seven states, and we hadn't seen that. before so, we worked a bunch of sources and eventually, we were able to get a copy of that document, publish it, at the new york times. and it really is extraordinary in how reluctant but lawyers working on it is. i don't even necessarily endorse this, and this probably would fail in front of the supreme court. and i agree. it's controversial. we might have to keep parts of this very quiet. but they go ahead and implement it anyway, so, it's a key moment in the evolution of the fake electors plan. and we were able to expose it for the first time. >> let me ask you quickly, look. political reporting that the d.c. brand jury met again this week, focusing on trump safe america pack. testimony being from character was questioned about fundraising from january six. what are you hearing about why this grand jury is still

sitting? >> right. well, the grand jury proceeding is secretive. so we can't know exactly what's going on. but we do know the cases active. we know that there are six unnamed co defendants who could be potentially charged going down the line. we know that jack smith has continued to investigate and continuing to bring in witnesses. he just brought in boerne garrett, the former police commissioner of new york who did some investigating for the trump campaign. and we do know he is pursuing the fundraising that was going along with the election efforts, what the january six committee dubbed sort of the big rip off. and so there could be any number of ways or this investigation goes, but we do know the potential that jack smith could bring an additional superseding indictment that's adds more charges as this case

goes forward. >> okay, we'll wait and see what happens. there luke broadwater, -- thank you so much. the saying goes, if it gets too hot, day out of the kitchen. but what if that he is political and it's part of your own making? the no-show that has a lot of floridians upset. don't remove all the grease, even with scrubbing? (whaaat?) i just cleaned those. try dawn platinum. it removes 99% of grease and food residue. that's why dawn is trusted to save wildlife affected by oil. dawn platinum cleans to the squeak. what's the subway series? it's the perfect sub roster. just give us a number we got the rest. four. supreme meats. six. the boss. fifteen. titan turkey. ninety-nine. grand slam ham. i'm gonna need twenty-three of those, it's my turn to bring the snacks. ( ♪ ♪ )

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are taught across florida schools. so, among those was highly anticipated to show up as the florida parent of education commissioner, mary diaz, the inner. but as you see in this tweet you're about to see on your screen and just a second, before it was the date before they get to this highly anticipated town hall. that the us said he had told senator jones, who was behind organizing this town hall, that he would not be attending last week because of scheduling conflicts. now, those behind organizers contest that, and say this was a last-minute no-show. as you are about to hear, there was a lot of frustration and i are around the fact that he did not show up. whether or not that was last minute, they say that for them, this was their chance to press a member of the census administration about these really controversial changes to florida education, specifically to african american studies. so, you're about to hear some strong words from a member of the american federation of teachers. listen for yourself. >> let me address the elephant in the room. i don't know if anyone's going

to say it. manny diaz is a coward. [applause] ron desantis knew this was going on. manny diaz knew this was going on. they know how important this is to the black community. they know that they have thrown a vote in our community, and they know they should have been here tonight to face you. [applause] so, if you're going to do those kinds of things, that you ought to have no commission to be here and speak your truth. >> so, some important context here. miami gardens, where that town hall was held, this lasted about two hours. and there was a lot of people who spoke. we heard from local and state policy makers, we heard from educators, and we heard from parents. so, there is a lot of different discussions that was had. as you heard, we -- called him a coward in that one soundbite. others called him a flat out racist. there was a lot of frustration over the fact that they couldn't press him on these changes, because some important

context here. miami gardens is a city in miami-dade county area is predominantly black. these are frustrations over recent changes to the way the african american studies are taught. one particularly controversial -- you just mentioned, that they are instructed to teach that slavery's develop skills, which quote, in some instances, could be applied to their own personal benefit. so, alex, whether or not diaz showed up or not, i'm not entirely sure that the rhetoric would have been any less charged, given the anger over these new policy changes. >> can i ask you diocese commence out all beyond that tweet? does he address this anywhere? >> that's a great question. you know, i actually reached out to his team. i asked him and his team what he thought about all of the accusations hurled against him. he was called a coward by local and state policy makers. he was also called a quote, racist. i have not heard back yet. so, if he has thoughts, we haven't heard them, alex. >> i know, you'll tell us when you hear that.

thank you, melissa parra in miami. the word from hawaii as the death toll climbs from those wildfires, lost the historic artifacts gone forever. also, with vice president kamala harris, who sits in the new msnbc exclusive interview. look at that. but first, take a look at this, everyone. the annual per se in medium shower peaks tonight. experts say this could be the year's best, because there might be a bright moon to spoil that show. people in the northern hemisphere one of the very best views to midnight and dawn, whether committing. nasa says early in the years, already being spotted. ted.

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jumped us a loss on its efforts to help with recovery operations in hawaii in the wake of one of the deadliest wildfire events in u.s. history. administration officials are telling us president biden has spoken twice with hawaii's governor to ensure he gets all the resources he needs. the state will need plenty of resources and money because fema now says it will cost more than five and a half billion dollars to recover, and while residents of maui maybe getting to assess what they lost in the wild fires, rescue teams are still searching for survivors. and that's totally climb 80. officials say they expect that told to continue to climb. nbc's dana griffin is at the center of destruction in line on the island of maui.

let's take a listen to her report. >> beneath the ash and debris in the town of lahaina, aunt mary's west coast. a history rich with culture now les baron. >> lahaina is often characterized as a tourist destination, but it is historical and cultural significance runs deep. >> stimulating's family has lived on maui for seven generations. >> what's the cultural significance of lahaina? >> it's like walking through the annals of the colonial and capitalist history of hawaii, starting from royalty to whaling to sandalwood. >> lahaina, which means cool sun, as the regional capital of the hawaiian kingdom, bag so by king kamehameha, who united hawaii silence in 1802. the former site of king kamehameha's palace in the area engulfed by flames, along with this 200 year old church, the final resting place for several hawaiian kings and queens. >> we lost her business, but our families here.

>> gantt, two, tiffany winds behind that gift shop. >> the nice thing about lahaina is such a sense of family. everybody watches out for each other. and when tragedies happen, everybody bands together. >> as much as has been destroyed, still standing is behind us 150 year old bank entry. it is badly burned, but officials now hoping the roots are healthy and that the tree, like lahaina, can come back. >> if, that tree is like a little gem to keep us going, that the. great >> deeply rooted here, the aloha spirit extending warmth to others. we need it in lahaina more than ever. >> let's hope that terry makes it. that was nbc's dana griffin reporting. the vice president, like you haven't heard before, wasn't a reaction to that riverfront fight in alabama. it's made with a plant-based moisturizer and glides on without irritation. so you can glide through your entire day with confidence. ♪♪ feel the dove men glide.

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kamala harris reflects on america's democracy in an exclusive interview with reverend al sharpton. >> our democracy. what do i think, everything is at stake right now. when a democracy is intact, it strengthens the people. it protects and fights for fundamental freedoms, individual rights, it's a fight for order against chaos. it strengthens. on the other hand, democracy, incredibly fragile.

it will only be as strong as our willingness to fight for it. and right now, there are many forces that are attempting to purposely, i believe, weaken our democracy. >> joining me now, erin haines, editor at large for the 19th and the msnbc political contributor. welcome, erin. it's good to see you here. you were the first journalist to do a national sit-down interview with kamala harris after she became vice president. how has her will involve since then for you? how do you expected it would? >> thank you for noting that, alex. three years ago this week, right? it was also an anniversary for me and for our very young newsroom at the 19th. so, this is a topic i had and i am deeply thinking about. as i'm writing a book on black women's leadership and in this moment, and she's obviously the highest -- public example that we have of that leadership. so, just to take a step back to how we got here, right?

we have president biden announcing during the switch in the primary that he was going to choose a woman, and last, week he announces his pick was going to be kamala harris, right? and once they take office, he really pled to see is going to be his full partner in governing. and i think that is what we've seen playing out. together, they tackle the covid-19 crisis. they prioritized systemic inequality as a pillar of this administration, confronting. that and you've seen that on issues like police violence or, the push for you know, voting rights and reform in that area. they've both been front and center on gun violence. you just saw kamala harris this week in chicago, you know, talking about the need for continued need for reform on that issue. they shared the world stage, meeting with leaders on trade and climate and immigration and other issues. so, i think you've also seen vice president harris distinguish herself. really making certain topics her own, especially abortion in the wake of the dobbs decision. she sticking on the issue of

education, pushing back against republican attacks and the supreme court's decision on affirmative action and student loan debt. so, i think what you're seeing is her role is really proving to be more substance than symbolism, which you know, so often we report off. first in our country, -- but then they become invisible. so, i think given her a storage significance on the reality of our age, we are and we should be paying attention to what he's doing. >> you make a really good point. he's carrying a lot on her shoulders. she's also taking a more prominent role in president biden's reelection campaign. you know republicans just tried to make her a liability. but tell me what you think she could bring to the table when it comes to campaigning? >> yeah, i mean, look. just as she was pointing out in the interview that you showed with reverend sharpton, she has really been a very effective voice, tying democracy to this conversation of our own rights and freedoms. and what's at stake for voters. that is something we saw resonate during the 2022 midterms, and i think on the

education issue, she resonates with so many folks in the democratic base, women, lgbtq folks, people of color. and so you know, this is you know, something republicans certainly are paying more attention to. it's no coincidence week she is one of the rain targets, going into 2024. and it may also be a sign that she is doing something right and resonating with folks. >> you know, on the topic of reproductive rights, she has really taken on, especially since the overturning of roe v. wade, after seeing ohio voters this week knocked down that republican-led proposal that would've made it more difficult to protect abortion rights, or you, erin, getting the sense of broad support for abortion rights nationwide? that will drive greater support for democrats, and that could actually make a difference in key states in 2024? >> yeah. i mean, absolutely alex. look, the 19th, we continue to see and report that abortion is on the ballot for voters, both literally and figuratively. in 2022, this brought out, and

you are seeing democrats kind of doubling down on the issue of reproductive access and rights that's an issue they feel like it's really going to continue to galvanize their voters. you know, folks who are or could be impacted by the dobbs decision. these ballot initiatives are undefeated so far. they certainly look like there could be more on the way they will be on the ballot next year, and i think that we are also seeing that there is this expectation among voters that candidates are clear about their positions on abortion. voters are wanting to make an informed choice, you know, when they cast their vote. and they're understanding that elections really can have consequences that impact their daily lives,. >> yeah, 100%. let's move to the five people who have been arrested now for that viral video with a group of white voters attacking a black coat captain on montgomery, alabama, last weekend. mayor stephen rejoin msnbc's jonathan capehart this morning and told him, race relations are always a work in progress. take a listen, erin. >> i think in this situation, a

lot of people saw what's happened. they were -- by the racial perception of it. i was uncomfortable by the same thing. certainly, as a black man here, as the first black mayor of the city of montgomery, you wonder whether or not this is a step back. >> do you agree with major reid there? what's your reaction to what happened? >> you know, i think he makes a lot of good points. this is a state, this is a city, with a very fraught racial history, right? and william faulkner said, the past is never dead. it's not even passed, right? we are constantly being confronted with the legacy of our history in america, which is why it's important, again, for us to learn about it so we are able to learn from it and not repeat the mistakes of the past. look, violent should never be the answer. it does present an option when you have these white people who were asked to move their boats or their vote could not. they refused to comply. this incident is bringing up a history of violence against black people. in history that continues until

this day. what is left comment, and what i think is really resonating with folks who are watching this video is to see black people retaliating in a way that feels, to many people, like a justice that they seldom get. there have been a likely will be more arrests in this incident. it is gonna work its way to the legal system to determine what crimes, if any, were committed and by whom. to the mayor's point, this moment also continues to be a mirror into our country. and into our unresolved history and relationship with race. it is an important discussion that really should be limited to social media fodder. >> absolutely. we have had this chat we look forward to looking -- thank you so much. all of you can see much more of reverend al sharpton's exclusive interview with the vice president today at five pm eastern on politicsnation. only here on msnbc. my next guest is to going to talk about the unthinkable position america's military generals would've found themselves in because of donald

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donald trump arriving at the iowa state fair just a short time ago. crowds, of course getting round him as the wave to supporters and posing for pictures there. this is the fair the house a number of presidential contestants today. also today, new disturbing reaction to the diamond charging trump was seeking to overturn the 2020 election. the former homeland security officials saying overlooked parts of the special counsel's indictment are so chilling his blood ring cold. military force against civilians destroy me now is former senior counselor, former cia and interim intelligence officer kevin carroll. carol in an op-ed for the dispatch he wrote that to as a veteran you are deeply troubled after reading the indictment britley the part that alleges trump and coconspirators would

have asked federal troops to put down protests over stolen action could trump have legally used troops against citizens lawfully protesting >> alex, alarming is the word. the insurrection act of 1807 gives the president great authority to use federal armed forces to reestablish order in the states if the federal laws are not being enforced. for example, if the federal courts are unable to operate. two paragraphs in the indictment set out that professor john eastman, who is the academic behind the false theory that vice president pence could refused electoral votes, assistant secretary general wanted to make assistant general were both warned that there could be riots in every major city in america if the election was decided on an unconstitutional basis. assistant general clark replied

that that is why there is in the insurrection act. professor eastman, sometimes violence is necessary to preserve the republic. it is clear that the endgame here is intended to be a military would intended to go into the protests. chance in your question, it would be a legally order given for an immoral purpose. it would've put our generals untenable purpose of breaking the unbroken tradition to civilian authority or turning their guns on american citizens. they were understandably. you wrote him being unthinkable position. how would this have played out? >> i think as a practical matter every military officer that i now would've refused to follow the order however there shouldn't have been a disagreement between units able

to turn the military apart as an institution it would've been and immoral by facially legal order. it would've fawn to the question of military civilian -- >> john kelly who he served as senior counsel with trump's longest serving chief of staff. he came into the job hoping to instill some sort of discipline at the white house. kelley recently said that a second trump term, quote, would be chaotic because we continue to be trying to exceed his authority but the sycophantic go along with it. it will be a nonstop gun fight with the congress in the courts. how about you? do you have fears like that? it will be announced outside of trying to find the court congress trying to prevent money that is being appropriated in spent for illegal purposes.

underneath mark meadows and earlier. there is not a willingness that trump had in the people that they were in their. when he said something illegal. senator kelly had that back bomb. . >> >> thus the word sycophant. karen carroll thank you so much for that. that is going to wrap it up for me on this edition of alex reid reports. i will see you again tomorrow my good friend yasmin vossoughian, and you know you name my friend, we'll continue the coverage. coverage