essentially he is waiting to take on the last shot. >> and so mario with basketball and jay-z lyrics, we thank you. and so "morning joe" starts right now. donald trump giving vaughn hillyard a new nickname, answering questions about the 2020 election and whether or not he would take a plea deal. and it comes as a georgia

prosecutor will begin presenting her case to grand jury setting up a fourth possible indictment. and speaking of iowa, ron sdaens did not have a great time there. he was heckled several times by trump supporters and trolled by the former president's campaign. also ahead, a special counsel is appointed in the doj investigation of hunter biden. we'll explain the new development. and plus an update on the catastrophic maui wildfire which is now the deadliest in more than history. joe, the scenes are just staggering. >> yeah, what a tragedy. unspeakable tragedy. and it seems to have been a perfect storm. winds blowing and whipping around, a lot of people saying they should have turned off the electricity. but the response from officials,

that is how they were keeping the water pumps going. really just again a perfect storm, a disaster of unspeakable proportions for the people there. and we'll be covering that obviously across the four hours. and also a lot going on in politics this past weekend. almost a bar fight between the desantis and trump people at one point. which actually started, it is crazy, i think first time, jonathan lemire, in the history of politics that a bar fight started when one side said you know you lost the campaign. and it heated up from there. but you've been in the position of vaughn hillyard getting shouted down former president calling him a wise guy.

he has so many charges against him. and one conviction basically amounts to a life sentence. so if he is not talking about a possible plea deal, he is not a wise guy, in fact he is quite dumb. he can't bs his way out of this. almost like that he fighting against the new york "post" in 1977. this is so much different. >> mr. wise guy not a terribly unflattering wise guy. trump has called me a flee bag,

that i don't have what it takes. so i know everyone else on this show has gotten them too. but this is donald trump throughout much of his life. he flat out lies to escape trouble. he became wealthy, got a tv show and eventually became president. and dogged by scandal after scan dell, and then even after being impeached, he still lives in mar-a-lago, he is someone who still in demand in political rallies. but this is different. he is facing these federal cases and his bank shot strategy here to win is to be elected and make those go away, so self-pardon.

he can't do that in georgia. and he is now usual tactics aren't going to work. and he cannot adjust facing the contempt charge and he is someone who is for the first time may actually face consequences that will change his life. >> and it really does seem as if he doesn't get it because, again, he is going after the judge as if in the d.c. case as if he wants to be brought up on contempt charges. and he has won in politics by disrupting. he ran against a bunch of people who had no clue how to respond to that. and they were in donald trump's domain.

he owned the stage he knew how to work the cameras, he knew how to work the crowds. he knew how to do that. federal court is so completely different. and if he is thinking that he can abuse the judge, that he can start riots, that he can make a mockery of that process, the federal judge will not allow that to happen. and in fact no federal judge will allow that to happen. we look at other than the one he has in south florida, we look at the very conservative 11th circuit. no nonsense, all business on those families from -- appeals from con non. they are no nonsense, and they reject trump's statements. and we have a georgia indictment most likely looming.

so we have to go back to what trump is talking about with vaughn hillyard calling him a wise guy. if he is not thinking about a plea deal, he is living on another planet because he is in such great legal jeopardy and as papers are reporting this weekend and of course it makes sense, you have four, five indictments coming your way plus all of the civil charges? he is running out money. >> well, we'll talk to vaughn next hour. and i will say that one reason why he may not be thinking of a plea deal or wanting to consider

that is this is a man who has faced 77 years of his life of no consequences. of always being able to skirt the law, skirt the rules and foundational ethics. he has found a way to get ash everything that he has put in his path. so we'll see. but it is definitely heating up because he is not backing off. along with jonathan lemire and joe and me, we have elysor dan, and also charlie sykes and also chuck rosenberg. and as we were just mentioning, as he awaits possible charges in georgia, which could happen this week, trump is already testing the limits of a new protective order put in place in the federal election interference

case against him. this is the one of course playing out in washington, d.c. now, in court on friday, judge tanya chutkan ruled that going forward trump's lawyers must review any notes he takes while looking at sensitive materials to make sure that he is not copying down personal information about witnesses. she also prohibited him from having a phone out while reviewing those materials for the same reason. prosecutors requested the order after trump started attacking potential witnesses, special counsel jack smith and even the judge herself on social media. friday judge chutkan warned that while he has a first amendment right to free speech, that right is not absolute. shed a the more a party makes inflammatory statements, greater you are against city that we proceed to trial quickly.the mo

inflammatory statements, greater you are against city that we proceed to trial quickly. despite trump's lawyers saying that he would abide by the rules, it didn't take long. on social media last night in addition to calling jack smith a deranged low life prosecutor, the former president went after the judge herself with her photo and a caption falsely claiming that she is running election interference against trump and that she obviously wanted him behind bars. last night neal katyal posted that it would not surprise me if judge chutkan called an appearance given his remarks. wouldn't it be in his best interests to push this to the limit? >> no, it is not in his best interests to push it --

>> in some ways. i think it does. >> no, here is the thing. we are all so accustomed to donald trump saying outrageous things and getting away with it. just like we were accustomed to that guy that was lying about sandy hook parents saying really outrageous things about everybody. and then he got a billion dollar settlement. tucker carlson on fox news saying the most outrageous things. and so i guess you just get away with it. no. why? because the great leveling wind is a judicial system. donald trump thinks that he is fighting against the "post" in

1977 and against marco rubio in 2016. against clueless people like you and me on news that they can set up as -- you know, set up straw men and knock them down. i guarantee you, you can say what you want about the lowly country law that happens to fall off a turnip truck and get a tv show, you cannot do that to a federal judge. especially a federal judge who is unanimously selected by the united states senate. i think a 98-0 confirmation and perhaps one of the most respected judges in that district. and so i want to bring in chuck here. you may disagree with me, but from where i come from, you start lying about federal judges and posting their pictures, from

where i come, bad things have happened in alabama to federal judges in the past. they have been blown up when they try to open up packages. and federal judges don't take these sort of accusations and threats lightly. and so i'm curious what may lie ahead for mr. trump and given your years of experience in the federal court, what would happen to any other criminal defendant that behaved this way and thumbed his nose at a federal judge's ruling? >> first let me tell you what lies ahead for mr. trump. and the road we're on a bumpy and messy, but it leads to a federal courthouse and a trial and a jury where mr. trump does not control the venue. but from the perspective of a

prosecutor, it is fine if he doesn't plead guilty. 50 or 60 don't want to plead guilty? fine, we get paid either way. we go to trial. so even though it will be messy, but he will end up in a federal courtroom in trial pursuant to the rules of law and evidence that he doesn't control. that is where this goes. the hard thing for the judge, really for everyone who cares about the fair administration of justice between now and then is that it will be hard to keep this by sort of in line. we get that. the judge understands that. thereare graduated punishments that she could impose. she could order a gag rule, hold him in contempt. and if it gets really bad, federal prosecutors have a

solution. remember they superseded charges in the southern district of florida, if he is going after witnesses, harassing them, they can charge him with that. one way or the other, this lead ises to a federal courtroom and where he has no control. >> and if any other defendant would being haf this way, what would be happening to them right now? i feel like trump will push it to the limit. his pattern in any other situation, he is -- he is unstoppable in terms of his relentless abuse of the truth and the rules. and i just wonder sfen back to my initial question, any other defendant who has done this, would they be treated differently? >> yeah, you know, it is hard to

compare him to every other defendant. he is a violent narcicisstic man. but the judge has tools. she has to be careful. the man is running for president whether we like it or not. and he is entitled to his first amendment political speech as any other candidate would be. but there will be orders that he might violate. if he does, my go is that he will be treated like any other defendant.is that he will be treated like any other defendant. she could hold him in contempt and department of justice can supersede. and i may be wrong, but i believe this, he will be treated like any other defendant.

>> charlie sykes, you can answer any of the previous question that i passed to chuck. but as chuck says, he will end up in federal court. and it will be sooner rather than later because the more he acts this way, she says that the greater the requirement to speed up the process. so suddenly we're looking at a january trial if there is a conviction, a february -- you know, a possible conviction by february. i can't imagine the appeals court dragging things out too long. he could be facing the music by spring. >> to chuck's point, i mean, none of this is normal and we shouldn't pretend it is. but this is an amazing stress test for the miles per hour judicial system because donald

trump is daring the judge. he is baiting the judge. to mika's point, it is as if he is goading to see how he can push this. what is interesting is how she responds to all of this. and i'd be interested on whether or not the judge sort of finding him in contempt of court can cause him and his lawyers in and say i'd like you to explain now what you moon by these statements. ask him point by point, explain what you mean. i'm not a lawyer. i'm not sure how the fifth amendment applies to this, but during a healing like this, does she have the ability to say would you explain why you should not be held in contempt. or sort of that, say let's walk through this tweet. what were you saying, what are you implying here, does receive the ability to do that, is that

possible? >> great question. i think that she can certainly call that hearing. she can summon mr. trump and his lawyers. she can put the question to the lawyers. she can put it to in trump. there might be a fifth amendment issue and his lawyers may intervene. but i found when federal judges get really mad, they don't want to hear from the parties, they want to tell the parties something. in this case knock it off. because the next thing that happens is contempt. and after that -- and this is a always a possibility. if you don't follow my order, i revoke your bail. bail is granted to people who obey court orders. it permits you to stay out of prison pending trial. that is an act of grace. if he continues to push the judge, that could be revoked.

>> and this act of grace currently be stowed on somebody running for president. and even if he feels like he is head strong, you'd think that there is some lawyer saying this could get you in jail. but he is relentless. certainly to this point it has worked for him to plate victim to allege a deep state conspiracy against him. he is trying that card against her now. about this is really risky, isn't it? >> you look back at 2016 and there are various points, granted they were fleeting, but i think in august or so of the election as it neared against hillary clinton, he modulated his behavior just a tine city tensy bit and he had a rise in

the polls. but he has the ability about he doesn't see the legal risk.ensy the polls. but he has the ability about he doesn't see the legal risk. but with all these grab bag of charges against him, no gop primary candidates are using it at all. you look at iowa and you get from ron desantis a very tepid, oh, he lost the election and that is about as extreme as it is going when they have so much material and they could say too much baggage with this guy, look at this. but instead, you see how donald trump has been able to annihilate ron desantis by this stage because he really is just trying to be a repackaged trump like most of the other candidates except chris christie. after more than two years of investigation, fani willis will

begin presenting her case before a grand jury. a majority of that grand jury will have to sign off on an indictment for willis' team to press charges against former president trump and/or his allies. at least two witnesses subpoenaed by the d.a.'s office have confirmed their scheduled dates to appear. geoff duncan tweeted that he will testify tomorrow. and jenn jordan and also bee nguyen are confirmed. and so let's bring in our political reporter greg bluesteen. great to have you on.

we had heard all along that this time frame was the georgia time frame for potential indictment. the fact that the folks that i just named are testifying this week, does it indicate that we're still perhaps some time a away from possible charges if any? >> no, to us it indicates that these could be as early as tuesday. we've kind of known for a while that this would be the week where the grand jury could be meeting to determine whether or not there could be charges against the former president and his allies. now we know that geoff duncan and the independent journalist are both testifying tuesday. so we think the time line looks as early as tuesday. >> walk us through some of the possible charges that donald trump could face and whether this particular investigation unlike some of the others may

span beyond trump and others may also get indicted? >> this is an investigation that could very well expand and believed to expand beyond donald trump to his inner circle and to others who try to overturn his election results. and biggest charge is rico charges. fani willis is an expert on this. these are expansive charges that have been used against organized crime and street gangs. and she has pursued charges against rap groups that could involve rico charges. and also they could be used against donald trump. she has employed experts in rico. so that is why we're looking at charges beyond donald trump.

about 20 or so people involved in the effort to undermine joe biden's victory here in georgia received criminal target letters. at least eight fake electors have agreed to immunity deals but another dozen or so are on the table. >> and with all that, chris christie offered his take on a possible fourth indictment. >> let me remind the viewers out there, if he is indicted in atlanta as we are anticipating, we'll have the frontrunner for the republican nomination for president out on bail in four different jurisdictions. new york, miami, washington and atlanta. what i think republican voters have to ask themselves is two things. first, is he really the nguyen

under indictment in four different days, can he really beat joe biden and when are we going to stop pretend willing that this is normal?willing that this is normal? >> in terms of georgia, from what we know so far and the napes of people who are still testifying, those who have received immunity deals, what can we read from that in terms of what charges might be against trump if there is a possible indictment which appears likely and also just tagging on the end here, if the judge in d.c. or georgia decided to revoke his bail, how complicated is that with the secret service? >> second question first. complicated. and i think there are ways go it. i think logistically for the secret service which protects mr. trump, it becomes very

complicated. she could also put him up done house arrest which would be easy 00ier for -- it could be worse for him but easier on the secret service. and on the first question, it looks like rico charges are quite responsible. what makes that interesting, it lets the prosecutor go broad and sweep in a lot of conduct. georgia went broad and added more act that the could be swecht into a rico charge. and even more than the fed's. and so what you might see out of georgia if the reporting is accurate and it often is, are

charges broad predicated on rico, but the acts would involve false statements forgeries, and much of the conduct related to the slate of fake electors that were used in numerous states but including in georgia. so it is a great tool. it allows them to sweep in a lot of conduct. and in georgia in particular, it allows prosecutors to go sort of more broadly than their federal counterparts. and the other interesting thing, what will the designated enterprise be as greg mentioned, your enterprise can be atlanta teachers, it can be biker gangs. it could well be the trump campaign. >> and once again coming out of georgia just like out of d.c.,

fake electors, a fraudulent keep to take people's rights away from them. people who voted and had the appropriate electors going to d.c. all the people we've heard about in the d.c. case decided to defraud not only the voters but the united states congress and present fake electors. it is what mike pence refused do. but again, a fraudulent scheme has nothing to do with the first amendment. you don't have the first amendment right to get on the phone and steal someone's identity. if your grandmother's identity is stolen, what, they are going to run into court saying that they have a first amendment right to steal your grand mom's no? no.

jonathan, we haven't talked baseball today, so shear ahere is a great opportunity. looking at all the places that donald trump is indicted. new york, miami, d.c. atlanta. come on, you got the braves, mets, marlinsmarlins, nationalse red sox need to sweep. donald trump has been indicted in every city where there is a national league east team except philadelphia. keep your eyes on the phillies. they are probably next. >> city of brotherly love. hey, there is the american league east standings.

>> so maybe he will visit some ballparks going from courthouse to courthouse. and mets also demolished the brav braves. but give us a lay of the land. talk about what law enforcement is doing as the eyes of the world as they have been and these other national league east cities, eyes are on atlanta this week. >> yeah, fani willis has made preparations for months. the courthouse has been surrounded by barricades. many are watching from home.

roads are being closed. all sorts of unnamed security precautions as well. they are receiving threats not just from donald trump and false allegations he's made but also some of his supporters. so it is a high security area in downtown atlanta. and a ton of media will be camped out and they will be watching in and anybody walking in and out of that courthouse. >> all right. and greg, thank you so much. hopefully we'll be talking to again very soon. and so charlie, want your final thoughts this what chris christie said. four indictments in miami, in atlanta possibly, d.c., and up

in new york. and this is who the republicans still steadfastly clinging to. and, yes, clinging to desperately when they have a lot of other choices out there. >> and if donald trump does come to milwaukee, he could pick up a milwaukee brewer game. they are leading the nl west. you for got to mention that. >> is that hockey? go ahead, i'm sorry. >> and 3 1/2 games ahead of the countries which is a big deal. >> that is a big deal. >> so look at donald trump's resume. a federal jury has found him liable for sexual assault. he is facing charges for fraud, conspiracy, obstruction. and the republican field cannot figure out how to run against him. ron desantis can't figures out

what to use to beat him. which tells you about the other candidates but also the state of the republican base right now. his numbers have gone up and i don't think that that will change after the georgia charges come down. but it is an extraordinary and abnormal moment when someone facing that many charges that are that serious really is continuing to dominate the republican party. and they continue to want to buy this ticket into 2024. and so is this not normal. and not rational. >> charlie nails it when he talks about how every candidate is cowering down to donald trump. and it reminds you so much of 2016 in the primary when every so many candidates thought that donald trump would just poof go away one day and he never did

and still leading. if we had the election today, he'd probably win. >> all right, thank you for that thought as we continue here. still ahead, candidates took their campaigns to the iowa state fair. and we'll go live to des moines for a recap including the not so warm welcome to ron desantis. plus republicans once clamoring for a special counsel to investigate hunter bipartisan are crying afoul now that one has been appointed. we'll explain why. also ahead a look at the

devastation in hawaii. we'll get a live report from maui. l get a live report from maui being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right. joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. capping the cost of drugs like insulin. cracking down on surprise medical bills and all those crazy junk fees. there's more work to do. tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families.

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welcome back. the wildfires that broke out on the island of maui are confirmed to be the deadliest in the united states in more than 100 years as fema and the governor survey the damage, search teams continue to scour the ruins. and tom llamas has the latest.

>> reporter: this is what it looked and felt like escaping the lahaina wildfire. this new video showing the shear panic as a family stuck in a line of cars had minutes to escape before the flames engulfed the road out. >> this is a disaster. >> reporter: the drive through hell is how they made it out alive. >> it was moving fast and got to our homes within seconds. >> reporter: closing in, he heroically grabbed his kids and his friends children, their parents were at work and scrambled everyone out. >> did you hear any alarms? >> no alarms, no warning nothing. no sign nothing that we had to evacuate. not police rolling by or anything. >> reporter: and december speaker race now turning to anger.speaker race now turning to anger.

>> where were you? no, we're matt. we're mad. we lost our town, we lost history, you know.dtt. we're mad. we lost our town, we lost history, you know.. we're mad. we lost our town, we lost history, you know.. we're mad. we lost our town, we lost history, you know. you guys messed up real bad. >> reporter: and hawaii emergency officials have said sirens weren't activated but other alerts by phone and broadcasts were. >> having seen that storm, we have doubts that much could have been done with a fiery fast moving fire like that. >> reporter: the scale of the devastating loss now unprecedented. it claimed at least 93 lives. >> and 3%, that is what is searched. when we pick up the remains and they fall apart, and so when you have 200 people running through

the scene yesterday, i don't know how much more you want me to describe it. that is what you are stepping on. >> reporter: as fema and the governor survey the damage, search teams with cadaver dogs now scouring the ruins of historic lahaina. are we just at the beginning? >> first few days we did sarnlgs in the streets and cars. but we couldn't enter any structures. they are not trained to enter smolders structures to look for human remains. >> reporter: and questions also mounting over the cause of the blaze with fbi evidence recovery teams now on scene and a new class action lawsuit alleges that it could have been avoided if the utility company had deenergized its power lines ahead of the high wind weather.

hawaiian electric saying it doesn't comment on pending litigation and saying that high wind protocols were followed and at this early stage no cause for the fire has been determined. and the focus remains for hundreds their mission loved ones and a demand for answers. >> none of us are leaving. we'll rebuild and make it better. coming up, a look at the education systems and connections between elite colleges and the role that family income and status play in admissions. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back

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come on, cue! >> wow. >> you know, mika, we were talking as we were going to break with that incredible shot of washington, d.c. that tj dialed up, whether that solo

from the wall was my favorite. and i said no, i think that jimmy page's and the break and a whole lot of love might be. and boom, they dial it up. jimmy page with the white house. and there we go. >> beautiful. >> what is your favorite solo in rock history, mika? >> my favorite what? no huh-uh. >> guitar solo. >> my favorite guitar solo? i mean, i don't know. van halen eruption? >> boom, look at this, look at this. wait, somebody said in your ear. i'm not that stupid. why did i actually think that i knew that? oh, my god. you should walk around with an

earpiece. we all said and just get help. like she knew van halen was? >> no, tj didn't help me at all. >> that was not even subtle. but yeah, we were rocking out to a whole lot of love. >> and jimmy page had an amazing career. do you have a favorite -- >> i like stevie ray vaughn, johnson if we talk blues.

>> yea pick your lindsay song. >> let's move on. a study says that children from well with any families are more likely to be elited to elite schools than the average and i can 34r7b9 after affirmative action was banned. research shows that ivy league schools one in six students have parents in the top 1%. and joining us now is steve rattner. so walk us through this. there are three categories that you are looking at. >> sure, yeah, it is an interesting study and obviously parents are getting ready to apply to schools again. we just had the supreme court decision about affirmative action. so let's compare three groups of

schools. and this little dotted line down here are what they call flagship public schools and you can see that your chances of getting admitted regardless of your income are roughly about the same all the way down from the bottom to the very top. and if you -- if you apply to what is called ivy plus, your chances remain roughly the same until you get up to the top 0.1% and suddenly your chances go up 2.2 times the average. but if you are a legacy, if you have a parent or a close relative who went to one of these schools, at every single income level, your chances are substantially higher. from three times but at the very top of the income level, your chances go up to five times and

8.3 times if you are a legacy and you have high income. something people don't appreciate is that rich people actually can get better recommendations out of high school. so if you look at academic ratings in high school regardless of your income, roughly the same. if you look at your nonacademic ratings, richest people have a much higher chance, 1 1/2 times a chance of getting a high recommendation for their nonacademic activities. 1 and a half times of getting a better guidance counselor and teacher recommendation. >> and looking at this, not really surprising on many fronts, last thing you showed about ratings. we note academic advisrs and teaches. and there is certainly no --

there is no part of this where parents are going in and saying hey, we're rich, writes some nice for my kid. the thing i found coming from a family who grew up across the deep south, what shocked me was, you know, when it was time to take the s.a.t., my mom said hey, you the s.a.t. tomorrow. okay. she gave me a couple pencils and i went and took it and that was it. and i mean, most middle class americans, it is not the blood sport that it is in like elite -- a lot of elite communities where you grab kids like five, six, seven years old. it is absolutely crazy. preppin s.a.t. at these early ages. to my it seems like it has to do with communities where they just

know how to work the process, they know how to game the process. how does that play into it? >> well, let me actually go to my third chart and then we can come back to the second if you want. if you look at what you referring to as the pipeline. one of the problems of getting more kids in to elite schools is that they simply don't take the test. if you look down here, all wait up to the 70% percentile, fewer than half actually take the s.a.t.s. these are kids with scores of less than 1,000. and you can see that they are a majority of the kids of lower in-could. when you get up to the higher income, top 0.1%, again, you can see that higher percentage takes the test. and their scores.

and scores go up to 20%. so there is a pipeline problem. people talk about to solve it eliminate legacy preferences, eliminate preferences for like the elite sports like squash. but what they found is that percentage would only go down to 33%. 33% of the kids at these schools would still come from the top 5%. so the whole question of how you get more kidses from diverse backgrounds in to schools is actually complicated. and this study helps show that it may not make that much difference where you go to school and what they did is, they compared kids who got

accepted both at ivy league schools and at the prestigious schools and yeah, if you go to an ivy school, your chance of 1% of income go up, chances elite graduate school go up and your chances of getting applied by an elite law firm or bank goes up. but income is not all that different whether you went to an elite public school or ivy plus, you can see that you end up 79%, 81%, but $3,000 income difference. so it is really quite interesting how it results into life. >> and yeah, it does. and jonathan, as university of

alabama graduate, some of my best employ es have had ivy league degrees. because some of my best workers have had had -- >> roll tide. >> yeah, that is always the only answer. >> obviously. but steve, we have a bonus chart actually today. and there has been a lot of talk in recent weeks about hunter biden and how he is trying to raise money off of his father's name and influence. and we should note he didn't work in the white house. but you know who did? jared kushner. and you have a chart that details the sources of his money. and kushner's background in real estate not he exactly as a hedge

fund peace broker. >> yeah, he worked in the white house and worked very hard. it is less clear what he worked hard at. because after he left the white house, he raised $3.1 billion for a private equity guy. and he is a real estate guy. so where does the money come from? we know that he raised $3.1 billion and only about $30 million of it actually came from investors in the united states. all the rest of it is foreign money. and of that, $2 billion came from the saudis. and also the public investment fund from which in this money came, board voted against giving the money to jared and they were

overruled by mbs. i've never seen somebody get two-thirds of their money from a single investor. another $200 million we believe came from qatar and another $200 million from theuae. and then the $620 million from foreign investors. so what was jared kushner doing in the white house? and on the famous january 6, jak was in the middle east. >> and i heard from a prominent investor thatwas in the middle east. >> and i heard from a prominent investor that there is not much out there on how he is executing his funding. he has all this money, but his background is not in private equity. and i've seen only one news report of a small european

investment. are the saudis investing with him just to hedge their bets politically in case trump comes back into office? >> those are your words not i mean, but certainly a reasonable speculation. yeah, we haven't seen a lot and to a lot with this money. he has hired some people. i do know that. you mentioned that you had seen one investment i had not even seen. it is normal to invest the money over a period of several years. so i don't think that we can draw a firm conclusion yet. but again we're going back to a real estate guy and not a good one at that who is trying to do private equity deals. if you were the saudis, i wouldn't count on making a lot on this anytime soon. >> and so we want to look at that graph and that really tiny sliver at the top just 1% of the

money raised is from united states investors. just based on your experience, how unusual is that? >> it is extraordinary. i've also never seen that as well. and all of us in the private equity business go outside the u.s. for money. the middle eastern sovereign wealth funds have a lot of money. but again, it might be 10%, maybe 30% of a total fund. i've never seen it be 99% of a fund like this. u.s. private equity firms still raise the vast bulk of their money from u.s. investors. this is unprecedented. >> and as a final point, in the education charts, most kitable was making money. you didn't have to be from an ivy league. but this, you look at where american investors are going.

a lot to think about. welcome back to "morning joe." several of the republicans running for president made appearances at the iowa state fair over the weekend. but donald trump's brief visit to des moines assigned to grant most tanks. attention. he was there less than two hours arriving with house members from florida in a not so subtle dig at ron desantis. he repeated his lie about the 2020 election being stolen. >> you know, we did great in 2016. we won.

hate to this, but we did much better in 2020. the election was rigged. so we'll be back. we are not taking any chances. we're way up in the polls. up by over 50 points. but we don't want to take any chances. >> meanwhile ron desantis received a mixed welcome at the state fair. he was heckled by trump supporters throughout the day including his appearance with iowa's governor kim ron olds. >> you know what, we're iowa nice so let's give everybody the opportunity to hear our candidates. >> iowa state fair also

ramaswamy rapping -- >> please stop. please stop. >> he was rapping several bars. ♪♪ >> please stop. yeah. in the worlds of gene wilder and willy wonka and the chocolate factory, please stop. let's bring in vaughn hillyard from fulton county, georgia after covering politics in iowa. vaughn, let's start with the campaign. let's not talk about rapping. we'll leave that to the side. but we talk about how donald trump has shattered preliminary norms and constitutional norms.

i got say, that the cowbell ringing, the deposit tractsing, the going around the iowa state fair with the governor of iowa, that seems like one of those things where people look back if ron desantis can actually find his footing and go, yeah, a lot of iowa voters, they just, you know -- that may have won trump a moment with people from new york doing stories about it, but actually that ain't iowa nice. i'm curious with what your thoughts were as you saw these people going around being abusive throughout the iowa fair and a state that prides itself at being nice. >> joe, you are right. if donald trump were to not win this iowa caucus, we'd have to look back to his relationship with kim reynolds because she is

not ening endorsing him. for donald trump, there has been no instance outside of losing the 2016 election of political consequence of throwing fellows off the cliff. so kim reynolds is in his line of fire. and thousands of people were swarming donald trump. the presence of donald trump is powerful. and the motor raid which i was riding in, it came into the state fairgrounds and essentially shut it down for the 85 minutes on the ground. none of the other candidates have that impact. ramaswamy was not invited to the

main grand stage to speak beyond his presentation. i want to let you hear from donald trump himself. because this i think it is important that we take into context here this visit of his took place just 24 hours after the hearing in which the judge in washington, d.c. told him to not create carnival-like atmosphere around the proceedings. take a lnks. >> reporter: you know the answer

to that. again, that was donald trump's response to my question of did you intend to overturn the 2020 election. of course that is at the heart of his federal charges and potentially his state charges here spending as soon as tomorrow here out of fulton county, georgia. >> and so from everything that you saw on the ground, talk about desantis, a guy who desperately trying to find his footing. he still has five, six months before the caucus. so a week is a lifetime in politics and we've seen time and time again since we've started doing this show people moving quickly the last week in the polls. i'll curious what did you pick up from distance from the energy around there? >> reporter: i was talking to a county chairman who was actually a county claire for ted cruz eight years ago and now for ron

desantis. and he insisted that the robust operation that ted cruz put in place is in place for ron desantis. and so the question, does ron desantis have the personality, does he have the iowa charisma to win support across these 99 counties? in october of 2015, ted cruz was just at 6%. and so ron desantis is working from a better position. he has the financial backing but does he have what it takes to eclipse. i'm not sure. but at least is he trying. he had more than a dozen events over the last 72 hours across iowa besides the hour that he is spent with his family at the iowa state fairgrounds. ron desantis is putting in the

work to make a true run. of course i've talked to a great number of republicans and if donald trump wins iowa, it is hard to see how desantis or anyone else has any viability moving forward. but in a place like iowa, ron desantis and the efforts of having the county chairs and putting in that he was could reap benefits. ted cruz was down about ten percentage points just before the iowa caucus eight years ago. and so ron desantis can get himself within fighting range, he has a shot. but when you look at the crowds that donald trump was pulling in, i have a hard time reckoning with the glad donald trump is not the odds-on favorite to pull off a caucus victory by the shear amount of support that he has across the state. >> he certainly does seem to being the odds on favorite. but with several caveats. and i might add mike huckabee to

that. a lot of people polling terribly in august the year before the caucus who ended up winning going away. so still a long way to go here. vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. >> usually the state fair is the informal kickoff. but it started so much earlier so it seems like we're late in the game. so to your point, we just might be getting started. >> thank you so much vaughn. wise guy vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. charlie, i'm curious your thoughts about where we are in this process. i want to go back to -- i guess it is the conservative in me. i believe in custom, in convention. i always talk about gravity

returning. it sushl does. it is just like when a milwaukee brewer on or a boston red sox player starts with a .450 0 0. >> you know that he will get back to .240. but i can't help but think that all the shouts and screaming wherever a candidate went, i don't care who it is, you know, that stuff usually catches up with you. might be not trump this time, but we're seeing gravity returning in a lot of other spaces. i wonder if it will ever turn to a party that used to talk about character. >> well, it has been a long time since we have had no gravity. look, i think what you saw over the weekend is this is still the trump show and trump show has

not hurt him so far. he in-surlts the governor and voters and he's been dos that for years now. michael huckabee did not go to to win the republican nominee. if you recall, after ted cruz won the iowa caucus, donald trump said that he had been cheated and stolen. so no scenario in which donald trump becomes the fwra issues gracious loser. it is just august, but iowa is not necessarily a predictor. but i think that we're seeing a bit of the way that the primary is playing out over the weekend that donald trump didn't have to

do the work, he just had to fly in and assault a couple people and republicans still love him. >> and in this time of escalating divisions, call for a strong moral compass is more urgent. ed a and the next guest writes that generations are growing up in a morally in-articular self referential world. what does that mean? joining us now david brooks.mor referential world. what does that mean? joining us now david brooks. he writes how america got mean. it is featured in the atlantic september issue. and david writes in part, "the most important story about why americans have become sad and alienated and rude, i believe, is also the inch rest, we

inhabit a society in which people are no longer trained in how to treat others in kindness and consideration. our society has become one in which people feel licensed to give their selfishness free rein. in a healthy society, a web of institutions, family, school, religious groups, community organizations and workplaces helps form people into kind and responsible citizens. the sort of people who show up for one another. we live in a society that is terrible at moral formation after decades without much in the way of moral formation, america became a play where $74 million people looked at donald trump's morality and saw presidential timber." so i guess the question is, david, i don't disagree, but if you could talk a little bit

about how moral foundation is part of a functioning democracy and what we might be losing here. >> i asked the question why are we so sad. suicide rates hit a record high. people saying no close personal friends. depression rates with up. and i have a friend who a s. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive.ia s. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive.sa s. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive. s. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive.s. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive.. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive. a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive.a nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive. nurse and she has trouble keeping staff because patients are so abusive. social media is not helping. but there are certain skills in being a decent person, decent parent. how to ask is for forgiveness and offer forgiveness. how to host a party so everybody feels included. and this is not a heroic thing. but it is skills that i believe

used to be taught in a wide variety of ways at school, synagogues, mosques, organizations. here is how you do the small act that the make people feel included. and about 50 or 60 years ago, we stopped doing that. and as a result we treat each other often unkindly. we're not as considerate. >> and david, it is so fascinating when we have these discussions that we're talking about now, so much of it for me goes back to the book "closing of the american mind." and alan bloom not a religious guy, but he said what bound americans together unlike other countries, he said for america it was the bible and government

it was the constitution. and this wound people together with a distinct moral code. the judeo christian values. and he said that television was getting in between parents, children and the family. now of course it as accelerated with the internet. and so instead of having ancient texts and comings tugs skougs t constitutions, we have the phone. and this now provides permission structure be rude and look at donald trump who says it is cool

how gets in everybody's way. if we talk around issues of faith and even civic organizations, boy scouts, girl scout, rotary clubs, things that have bound us together over the past 100 years? >> phones are important but not the key thing. phones are everywhere, but the emotional crisis is worse. so i do think that you stop talking about how do you become a decent person. and you can measure it. they measure how much people are using words in popular conversation. and words like honor, courage,

humility, brave, we're not using them. and so if you went into a school 50 years ago, public, private, whatever, there was a sense that character formation was like our main job here. and i love quoting a guy who ran a school that said we turn out men who are acceptable at a dance but invaluable at a ship wreck. what he meant is that they will have some social polish, but when the chips are down, we've taught them how to show up in a time of crisis. and than is -- is not high highfalutin tough. but what we're called on to know what to say, how to build a friendship and i think these elementary social skills that we don't teach as we do teach how to get into harvard. so schools have shifted their focus from character focus to getting in to harvard.

>> and talk to us more about how we got here. and certainly the silos social media and being among like minded travelers. is it a singular economic focus, people putting forward like individuals ahead of greater community good? >> you i can't, i think people are materialistic. we had a set of ideas that our founders really believed in. and they really believed that human beings are wonderfully made but all deeply broke. we're all kind of selfish. and if we're going to make a good country out of these kinds of people, we need to do this thing which they call moral formation. and that is why they say it is pervasive in the neighborhoods. and after world war ii, people looked at human nature and they didn't say that we're wonderfully made but also deeply

broken. they said that people are innately good. the little soul is beautiful and just get in touch with yourself. so if you think that people are innately good and it is society that is corrupt, you don't need to do moral formation because you are good. so you can feel that whatever you want to do is good because you want to do it. because that abandons the idea that we all need help to overcome ours selfishness. but we need help finding our moral purpose. if you have a moral purpose respect as he has a why, can endure anyhow. if you know why you are put on the why, you can handle the setbacks. if you don't have a why, the setbacks will be tough. so another moral formation that we dropped the ball on. >> just to go back to religion

because that seems to be something that really was way more present in american life, we can look at the statistics, but also just in terms of in our day to day, the religion element that is missing, has that been supplanted by politics and particularly donald trump and focus groups in 2016 and then even in 2020, all over the country and what you hear from a lot of trump supporters who might not like his meanness, but they say, you know, tells it like it is. so a permission structure from the leader of a movement that allows people to be meaner? >> in every religion i know, the line between good and evil runs down the middle of every human heart. but when take you politics as your religion, it gives you this moral landscape where i'm good and those other people are evil. ican contribute to the

neighborhood but i don't have to serve. so politics is our substitute religion. late night comedy, ports, ports, -- sports, everything has become political and you take away the real moral structure and people fill it with politics. there are politics of distribution. we argue about how high taxes should be, what the budget should be on, but we don't have that anymore. people don't want policy victories they just want to humiliate the other side and affirm my own people. >> david brooks, thank you very much for being on this morning. his latest piece is available online and featured in the atlantic september issue. still ahead, we'll go to

hawaii for the latest on the maui wide fires. plus students across the country are preparing for a new school year. but many classrooms are facing a staffing crisis. we'll dig into the problem surmounting the nationwide teacher shortage. g the nationwie teacher shortage

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growing. how did this wildfire happen with no warning? did you get any alert? >> no, no, no. >> reporter: this 73-year-old grand foresaid she was so scared she didn't realize her face and arm were burned. firefighters treating her wounds but her brother is still missing. and she is pleading for any word from him. >> i'm so worried about everybody. hopefully you are still alive. >> reporter: search for the missing and dead is just getting started. cadaver dos arrives. >> and are we just at the begin something. >> for the first few days we did searches in the streets and are cars. so it will take us a while. >> reporter: more than 2700

structures have been destroyed, most homes. residents desperate to get back. >> it has been too long. six days. >> reporter: this king family lost their home, their kids rescued by their friend and neighbor and now staying with friends, three families under one roof and he is angry. >> where were you guyses? where were you to try to get us out? we're mad. we're mad. we lost our home and our town. >> reporter: the cause is still under investigation. video shot from the water show how bad the fire was but also how strong the wind was blowing. this 19-year-old and his 13-year-old brother spent hours in the water along with their mother escaping the flames. and at one point their mother

started to get cold. >> kind of like all huddled around her to keep her warm. >> has your mom thanked you for being by your side? >> we didn't save her, she also saved us. if any of us were alone, i don't think if we would have. and joining us from the war memorial complex in maui is dana griffin. the complex is currently serves as a shelter for survivors. what are they saying and what is the potential that those moist -- missing will be found alive? >> it is about 1:00 -- 1:30 local time and it doesn't look good. they have only searched about 3% of the disaster area. right now the death toll at 96. and they believe that there could be hundreds, possibly up to 1,000 people. there was google doc going around earlier this week that

have been dwindled down to 1,000 still missing. hopefully someone has found them. but right now investigators are going door by door marking homes and cars with an x to show that they have searched the area. but as the police chief says, there is so much megts and metal and burned boats that it is hard to figure out who is who. so they say come give a dna sample so that they can try to identify the bodies. at it complex a lot of the evacueeses are housed here, some are inther shelters across the island.

starting today they will open up hotel rooms and they are asking tourists to stay home, not to come to maui because they could use the hotel rooms for people. everybody the governor has asked people across the state to open up their homes to the displaced. >> dana griffin from hawaii, thank you very much. dealing with first responder, vehicles working through the night trying to find the missing and dealing with the catastrophe there. coming up, we'll speak with a superintendent about the nationwide shortage of teachers and what he thinks needs to be done to fix the problem. o be done to fix the problem. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

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as millions of american students head back to school,

educators are once again sound ing the alarm about ages. in kentucky, parents say their parens didn't get home until after 9:00 p.m. when a new bus route plan went awry. in north carolina, a bus driver tells nbc news that a typical day often includes finishing his morning route and filling in as a teaching assistant and then substituting for a different class being picking up more bus shifts. and in pennsylvania, the number of people applying for emergency teaching permits has exceed the number of recent college graduates an applying for certificate certificates. joining us no is head of one of those districts struggling, van

varner. can you describe the situation in your county 1234. >> yes, thank you for having me. this is an emergency situation. i would say five, seven years ago, we'd have 25, 30 applicantses for a typical position and now we're looking at two to three applicants. right now i have four openings that we have not filled and school starts august 30th and right now we don't have a qualified teacher that has applied. >> can you give us a sense of how this right now, how you are at this situation days before school starts and how long has this been going on, has it become increasingly worse over

the years? and covid's role? >> i would say the last few years, it has become progressively worse. i shared -- you shared the slide at the beginning of the clip. in pennsylvania since 2010, there has been a 66% reduction in teachers that are certifying that are applying to become a certified teacher. and that is scary. two-thirds less applying to be a teacher. and just this past year, and we've seen it in this county, we actually had almost 50% of our teachers that we hired were under emergency certified status. and so what that means is we may have a great person and most of them are, you know, we hire great people, but they may not have had a class in college or any major related to education. they may have been an english

major or journalism major and they are working at a local newspaper or somewhere and they find out, hey, this school district has an opener as a teacher and they are like i always wanted to be a teacher, so we hire them, and they knock our socks off, a great personality, but however what we're finding is they never student taught, never had a methodology course, ethics in education. so they join our ranks but you want to take them from the good to great level and it takes a couple years to get them there. and the frustration because they are under emergency certification, they have it take nine college graduate credits each year to continue to work towards permanent certification. >> and so obviously a real, real

crisis point. you outline some of the whichic reasons, but tell us about some of the other ones. the pandemic letted issues where not just teachers coming out of classrooms because people are getting sick, but how politicized it is. the appropriate way to handle kids, behavioral issues because of the strain the pandemic has put on. it is an extraordinary series of challenges. how do you handle that part of this? >> we just want to show our staff that we support them. that is very important. i do think at least in pennsylvania, we have a lot of professional educators, administrator, custodian, cafeteria workers and teachers take when they reach the age of 55 or have 30 years experience, they are leaving education early and taking early retirement and leaving. i've seen that happen since the pandemic. that is one thing that i can

correlate to that. in the past everyone tried to work to 35 years in or working toward 60 or of 62. and so we don't have that bullpen to people to step into. and so i do think that, you know, right now it is like if we have someone in high school and they are going to college, we'll tell them that we have a need for teachers in for year, but not a lot of kids are majoring into education. they may join it later on. but there is a bit of a negativity with education. and i couldn't disagree. i think it is a great profession and i think that we have an incredible staff here. and i'm so proud of them and proud to be a part of that team to provide great quality education. but i wish everybody knew how great this profession could be.

>> superintendent, thank you so much for coming on the show and please come back and keep us updated. >> thank you. good morning. have a good day. >> thank you so much. still ahead, several republicans last year demanded a special counsel be appointed to the doj investigation into hunter biden. but now that the guy that they lobbied for is in that position, many of those same republicans are criticizing the move. we'll dig into that apparent hypocrisy with a member of the house oversight committee, jared moskowitz will be joining us. m moskowitz will be joining us stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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joe."

time for a look at the morning papers. we begin in michigan where the detroit free press leads with a plane crash at an air show yesterday. a retired russian jet was doing aerial maneuvers when it crashed in to the parking lot of an apartment building. two people were able to safely eject. no one was injured. and in idaho, they say there has not been a mandated inspection in years. a report leased in may found that idaho has the third highest rate of inspector vacancies in the country. the paper notes other states have also struggled with nursing home inspections especially during the covid-19 pandemic. and attorney general merrick garland announced friday that

special counselor has been appointed to investigate hunter bipartisan. biden. and david weiss will be responsibility. he was already overseeing the hunter biden case and is based in delaware. several republicans are publicly expressing that they are not happy with attorney general gar land's appointment of weiss after initially asking garland to do exactly that. in fact 31 republicans wrote a letter to garland back in 2022 asking to appoint weiss as special counsel. but now many of those same ones are saying that weiss cannot be trusted given the plea deal he

previously offered hunter biden which has since fallen apart. joe, i got no words. >> well, listen, donald trump has been accused of stealing nuclear secrets. donald trump has been indicted for stealing those nuclear secrets. indicted for stealing military plans, secret mail taker plan invade our enemies. so what about hunter biden? when donald trump is accused i thinktaker plan invade our enemies. so what about hunter biden? when donald trump is accused i think by his own staff members of trying to rig the 2020 election with fraudulent scheme to set up fake electors to steal votes away from legitimate electors, so what about hunter biden? so they have to keep that issue

alive even though they keep making fools of themselves. even though they say we don't care whether hunter biden is guilty or not, whether there is anybody on the table that we are raising about or not, we have a secret inform nt who sends up being an agent of china, who ended up being the guy who tried to illegally smuggle iranian oil to the chinese party, but they keep making fools of themselves and they does for special counsel. and they finally get what they want and so now we don't want that. i think the special counsel is a great idea. "washington post" says treat him like any other defendant.

and mr. weiss has the independence and the resources that he needs. the "washington post" goes on and says that it is needed because some of the things in the past haven't made perfect legal sense. so there now a special counsel who was appointed u.s. attorney by -- >> donald trump. and that is the part here that the republicans conveniently ignore. andyou did a good job of comparing that there what donald trump was accused of and what hunter biden is accused of. because the plea deal fell apart in delaware and that is where weiss' jurisdiction lies, he needs a broader authorized to do that. so that may be all this is. but it is possible that the investigation is getting wired.

but we know whether the probe is going or simply there is a trial, this will shadow his father's re-election campaign. but the republican hypocrisy is madness. >> yeah, appointed by donald trump in the first place. but just everybody else who is providing critical testimony against donald trump a stealing nuclear secrets and secret war plans against our enemies. those are all donald trump people. and so now the great conspiracy in all of these areas is being run by people exclusively that donald trump selected himself. they got nothing. and as far as we'll say about hunter biden, give him a fair trial. if he is insist, gets off. if he is guilty, he goes to

jail. i guarantee you you will not see democrats trying to burn down the justice department or trying to defund the fbi. because they follow the rule of law. something the republican party used to support and defend and do. no longer. still ahead as donald trump awaits another possible indictment this week, he appears to be testing the limits of a protective order in another case the d.c. won. we'll show you it his latest social media post and the judge overseeing the 2020 election interference case. overseeing the 2020 election interference case. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ ) the first fda-approved rsv vaccine. arexvy is used to prevent lower respiratory disease

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donald trump gives vaughn hillyard a new nickname over the weekend in iowa. the former president answering questions about the 2020 election and whether or not he would take a plea deal. it comes as a georgia prosecutor will begin presenting her case to a grand jury this week. setting up a fourth possible indictment for the former president. speaking of iowa, florida governor ron desantis did not have a great time there this weekend. he was hedged several times by trump supporters and trolled by the former president's campaign. and also ahead, a special counsel is appointed in the dwg investigation of hunter biden. we'll explain that new

development. and plus an update on the catastrophic maui wildfire which is now the deadliest in modern history. joe, the scenes out of maui are just staggering. >> yeah, what a tragedy. unspeakable tragedy. and it seems to have been a perfect storm of a fire started two places. the winds blowing and whipping around. a lot of people saying they should have turned off the electricity. but the response from officials, that is how they were keeping the water pumps going. really just again a perfect storm. a disaster of unspeakable proportions for the people there. and we're going to be covering that obviously. and also a lot going on in politics this past weekend, almost a bar fight between the desantis and trump people at one point this actually started -- i

think crazy. first time that bar fight started when one side said you know, you lost the campaign. and then it heated up from there when desantis people said that to the terrorism trump people. you've been in the position of vaughn hillyard getting shouted down by the former president trump called the wise guy for suggesting what every attorney has said, do a plea deal. he is boxed in because he has so many charges against him. as his own supporters have said, one conviction on one of those 77, 78 charges basically amounts to a life sentence. so, yes, if he is not talking about a possible plea deal right now, he is not a wise guy at all. and in fact he is quite dumb. he can't bs his way out of this

which of course is what he's done since 74, 75. almost like he is thinking that he is fighting against the new york "post" in 1977. this is so much different and so deeper and he will not be able to bs his way out of this. >> mr. wise guy not a terribly unflatering nickname. trump has call immediate a sleaze bag, saying i don't have what it takes.immediate a sleaze bag, saying i don't have what it takes. but this is candidate throughout throughout -- is this donald trump throughout his life. he became a celebrity and wealthy and got a tv show and of course into politics and became president. andgog dogged by

scandals and then impeached twice. but he still lives in mar-a-lago, he lives in med pin -- bedminster. he is stay famous and rich. but this time the consequences are different. important to have this conversation with the charges in georgia looming. he is facing the federal cases. and his bank shot strategy here to win is to be elected and make those go away. tell his attorney general to squash the investigations. but he can't do that in georgia. and so he is now his usual tactics aren't going to work and he is simply unable to adjust facing potentially a contempt charge in the federal case in d.c. because he keeps posting about the judge and about witnesses. and he is someone who is for the first time may actually face consequences that will change his life. >> it seems as if he doesn't get

it because again, he is going after the judge as if in the d.c. case as if he wants to be brought up on contempt charges. and he has won in politics by disrupting. by being the great disrupter. he ran against a bunch of time in '16 that had no clue how to respond to that. and when they were on the debate stage, they were in donald trump's domain. he knew how to work the cameras and the crowds. something you and i saw in our years knowing him beforehand. he knew how do that. federal court is so completely different. and if he is thinking that he can abuse the judge, he can start riots, he can make a mockery of that process, this federal judge won't allow to that happen. and in fact no federal judge will allow that to happen. other than the one he has in south florida, we look at the

very conservative 11th circuit. there is no nonsense. and the supreme court, donald trump says my supreme court, on every one of these issues, they are no nonsense, they reject trump's statements. it will happen again. and georgia indictment most likely looming. and when that comes up, even him getting elected president of the united states, if he still thinks that he has a chance of that, doesn't help in georgia. he can't pardon himself for a state conviction. and good evidence is pretty damning. so let's go back to what trump was talking about with vaughn hillyard calling him a wise guy.

if he is not think about a plea deal, he is living on another planet because is he in such great legal jeopardy. and as papers are reporting, you have four, five indictments coming your way plus all of the civil charges, that he is running out of money. >> i will say, one reason why he may not be thinking of a plea deal or wanting to consider that is this is a man who has faced 77 years his life of no consequences. and of always being able to skirt the law, skirt the rules, security the boundaries and ethics of something. he's found a get around everything. whether it be corrupt or a crime. we'll see. but it is definitely heating up because he is not backing off. along with jonathan lemirelemir

and me, we have elise jordan and also charlie sykes and also chuck rosenberg. and as we were just mentioning, as he awaiting possible charges in georgia, which could happen this week, trump is already testing the limits of a new protective order put in place in the federal election interference case against him of course playing out in washington, d.c. and in court on friday, judge chutkan ruled that going forward trump's lawyers must review any notes he takes to make sure that he is not copying down personal information about witnesses. she also prohibited him from having a phone out while reviewing the materials for the same reason. and prosecutors requested this order after trump started

attacking potential witnesses jack smith and everyone the judge herself on social media. on friday judge chutkan warned that while he has a first amendment right to free speech, that right is not absolute and that the more a party makes in-programmer to statements about this case, the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly. despite trump's lawyers insisting that he would abide by conditions of his release it did not take long for the former president to seemingly breaking the rules. last night nsh to he went after the judge sharing a post with her photo and a caption saying that she openly admitted that she is running election interference. and he wrote that she was very

biased and unfair and that she obviously wanted him behind bars. last night attorney neal katyal said it would not surprise me in the judge called a hearing with his presence. and wouldn't it be in his best sbrs to push this to the limit? >> no. >> in some ways i think it does. no, here is the thing. we have all been accustomed to trump getting away with things. just like the guy saying outrageous things about the sandy hook parents. and then tucker carlson saying the most outrage yus things about everything on and off camera. and so we're look i guess you

just get away with it no. no. why? because the great level wind is the judicial system. it is the third branch of government. donald trump think that's is fighting a fight against the new york "post" in 1977. he thinks he is fight against marco rubio in the 2016 primary election. he thinks that he is fight being against clueless people like you and me on news that they can set up -- set up straw men and knock them down. i guarantee you can say what you want about a lowly country lawyer that happens to fall off a turnip truck and get a tv show. but you with not do that against

a federal judge who was slaekted by the senate? perhaps one of the most respected judges in that district. and so i want to bring in chuck here. you may disagree with me, but where i come from, you say -- you start lying about federal judges, and posting their pictures, and by the way where i come from, bad thing vsz happened in alabama to federal judges in the past. they have been blown up when they have tried to open packages in their home, federal judges have. and federal gunlgs don't take these sort of a being could you stations and threats lightly.ju these sort of a being could you stations and threats lightly. so given your years of experience in the federal court, what would happen to any other criminal defendant that behaved

this way and thumbed will his nose at a rule something. >> let me tell you what lies need mr. trump. the road is obviously bumpy and messy, but it leads to a federal courthouse and a jury where mr. trump sgn does not control the rules or venue. i probably tried 50 or 60 federal criminal cases. because they didn't want to plead guilty. fine. okay. we get paid either way. we go to trial. so even though he will push the limits, he will end up in a federal courtroom in trial pursuant to the rules of law and everything that he doesn't control. and that is where this goes. the hard thing for the judge really for everyone who cares

about the fair administration of justice is that it will be hard to keep this guy in line. we get that. there are xwrautsed graduated punishments. and if it gets really bad, a federal prosecutor has a solution. either way it leads to a federal courtroom. >> and if any other defendant had behaved this way, what would be happening to them right now? because i feel like trump will push this to the limit. this is his pattern.

we saw him that he is -- he is unstoppable in terms of his relentless abuse of the truth. and the rules. and i just wonder again back to my initial question, anyone else, would they be treated differently? >> you know, so hard to compare him to every other defendant because i have never seen any other defendant who behaves the way he does. he is a violent narcicisstic man. most defendants abide by court orders. but again, the judge has tools in her tool belt to address this. she has to be careful. the man is running for president whether we like it or not and he is entitled to his first amendment political speech as any other candidate would be. but there will be orders that he

might violate. if he does, my guess is that he will be treated like any other defendant. there will be sanctions. she could impose a gag order or seek criminal contempt. so, yeah, in the end, and i maybe completely wrong, but i believe this, he will be treated like any other defendant. >> and charlie sykes, he will end up in federal court. and if you -- if you listen to the judge's instructions in their last hearing, it will be sooner rather than later because the more he acts this way, she says the greater the requirement to speed up the process. so suddenly we're looking at a january trial if a conviction, a

february possible conviction by february. i can't imagine the appeals kurts dragging things out too long. most refer back to the trial judge. so he could be facing the music by spring. >> none of this is normal but it is an amazing stress test. donald trump is baiting the judge to see how far he can push this. maybe he wants to an martyr. but what i think is interesting is to watch how she spokd s tor all of this. and i want chuck's views on whether nor the judge short of finding him in contempt of court can call him and his lawyers in and say mr. trump, i'd like you so explain what you mean by these statements.

explain what you mean. i'm not a lawyer. so i'm not sure how the fifth amendment applies. but during a hearing, does she have the ability to say explain why you should not be held in contempt or short of that say let's walk through this tweet or this bleep. you know, what were you saying. what are you implying here. does she have the ability do that? >> you know, great questions. i think that she can certainly call that hearing. there could an fifth amendment issue. but i've found when federal judges get really mad, they don't want to hear from the parties but say knock it off. and by the way, if you don't

follow my orders, i revoke your bail. bail is granted to people who owe by court orders. it permits you to stay out of prison. and that is an act of grace. if he continues to disobey the judge to push the judge, to flout her orders, that could be revoked. >> and even if donald trump is head strong and feels like he can say what he wants and suffers no consequenceses, you'd think someone in his ear would say this could get you in jail. but he is relentless. he continued to post last night. to this point it has worked for him to play the victim. but this is really risky, isn't

it? >> you look back at donald trump during 2016 and granted the points were fleeting, but i think in august or so of the election as it neared against hillary clinton, he modulated his behavior and so he does have the ability to control position a teensy little bit but he clearly doesn't see any political advantage to that. so what i find perplexing is with this whole -- mine just a grab bag of charges against him, no gop primary candidates are using it at all. you could say that there is too much baggage about this guy, he is not good, look at something

else. but instead you see how donald trump has been able to annihilate ron desantis because he really is just trying to be a repackaged trump like most of the other candidates except chris christie. coming up, a live report from fulton county, georgia as we await a fourth possible indictment of former president trump. former president trump. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi,

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this week after more than two years of investigating fani willis will begin presenting her

election interference case. a majority of the grand jury will have to sign off on an indictment for willis' team to press charges against form he president trump and his allies. at least two witnesses have confirmed their scheduled dates to appear. geoff duncan tweeted had he was scheduled to testify tomorrow. and also a journalist also confirmed his tuesday slot in an interview with nbc news. and also jen jordan and also bee nguyen are confirmed to received it is. d.a. willis has said that she will announce any potential charges decisions by september 1. let's bring in our political reporter, greg, we had heard

that this time frame was the georgia time frame for potential indictment. and the fact that the folks that i named are testifying this week, does it indicate that we're still perhaps some time away from possible charges if any? >> no, to us it indicates that these could be as early as tuesday. we've kind of known that this would be a week where the grand jury could be meeting to determine whether there could be charges against the former president and his allies. and now we know that people are testifying tuesday. so we think that it might not be tuesday, but as early as tuesday we could hear an announcement. >> and so walk us through some of the possible charges donald trump could face and whether this particular investigation unlike some of the others makes

beyond trump and others may also get indicted? >> this investigation could very well expand and believed to expand beyond donald trump to his inner circle. to others who tried to overturn the election results. and biggest charge potentially is rico charges. fani willis is an expert to rico charges. she's used them successfully in a public school cheating case and organized crime and street gangs, rap groups and also against donald trump. she has employed experts in rico charges to help in investigation. and so that is why it is charges beyond donald trump. about 20 or so people involved

in the effort to undermine joe biden's victory here in georgia received criminal target letters. at least fake electors have agreed to immunity deals. but another dozen or so are on the table. >> and with all that, chris christie offered his take on a possible fourth indictment of former president trump. >> let me remind the viewers out there, if he is indicted in atlanta this week, we'll have the frontrunner for the republican nomination for president out on bail in four different jurisdictions, new york, miami, washington and atlanta. what voters have to ask themselves, first, is really the guy under indictment in four different cases given the conduct that he committed someone who can beat joe biden

or any other democrat in november 2024? and when are we going to stop pretending that this is normal? >> that is the question i ask every day and i assume you do too as well, chuck. but in terms of georgia, what we know so far and the napes of people still testifying, those received immunity deals, what can we read from that in terms of what the charges might be against trump if there is a possible indictment which appears likely and tagging on the end here if the judge in georgia or d.c. cities to revoke his bail, what complicates that with the secret service?to revo his bail, what complicates that with the secret service? >> i think logistically it becomes very complicated. she could also revoke his bail

and put him under house arrest which would be a little bit worse for him and easier for the secret service. so the first question based on the excellent reporting, it looks like rico charges are quite possible. what makes that so interesting is florida it lets the prosecutor go broad like conspiracy charges. it lets the prosecutor sweep in a lot and lot of conduct. there is a federal rico statute and georgia was one of about three dozen states that modified it on the federal rico state. but georgia went broad. georgia added more predicate act that the could be swept into a rico charge than many other states and even more than the feds. so what you might see out of georgia are charges brought

predicated on rico, but the acts would involve false statements, and much of the fake electors statements. and so a great tool for prosecutors. it allows them to sweep in a lot of conduct and in georgia in particular, it allows prosecutors to go sort of more broadly than their federal counte counterparts. and so what will the designated enterprise be as greg mentioned, it can be atlanta teachers, birk gangs or drug cartels. in this case it could well be the trump campaign.biker gangs . in this case it could well be the trump campaign. >> and also fake electors, a

fraudulent scheme to take people's right to vote away from them, people who voted. and then had the appropriate electors going to washington, d.c. donald trump and all the people that we've heard about in the d.c. case decided to defraud not only the voters but the united states congress. and present fake electors. that is what mike pence refused to do. but again, fraudulent scheme has nothing to do with the first amendment. you don't have a first amendment right to get on the phone and steal people's identity. if your grandmother's identity is stolen by some group, they will run into court talking about they have a first amendment right to call your grandma and steal her money? no. you can't hide behind the first amendment any more than you can come up with this scheme and defraud voters.

jonathan lemire, you have the next question and we haven't talked baseball. so here is a great opportunity. i'm looking at all the places donald trump is indicted. in new york, in miami, in d.c., in atlanta, i mean, come on, you got the braves,you got your mets, your marlins. you got the nationals. who the red sox desperately need to sweep. donald trump has been indicted in every city where there is a national league east team except philadelphia. keep your eyes on the if i would police. they are probably next. >> and city of brotherly love.i police. they are probably next. >> and city of brotherly love. you will see the standings there. and we'll see that we're in

fourth place. but if the national league standings would come up, you would see that four of the fire cities have donald trump facing criminal charges. maybe elvis submit ballparks. but let's talk about the braves overly the lowly new york mets. about talk about the prepares and what law enforcement is doing there as the eyes of the world have been in these cities months before, but on atlanta this week. >> yeah, fani willis has made preparations for this for literally months. the courthouse is surrounded by barricades for many days. many staffers working from home.

and all sorts of security precautions. roads closed. and fani willis has her staff are receiving all sorts of threats not just from donald trump and the false allegations but also some of his supporters. so it is high security in downtown atlanta. and there will be a ton of media camped outside the courthouse and they will be watching anyone walking in and out in case there are other witnesses. and coming up, tommy tuberville has been single handedly holding up military promotions since february. we'll talk to the pentagon deputy spokesperson ahead. n ahe.

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wildfires that broke out on maui are confirmed to the deadly in the united states. and search teams continue to scour the ruins. and tom llamas has the latest. >> reporter: this is what it looked and felt like escaping the lahaina wildfire. this video showing the panic as a family had minutes to escape before the flames engulfed the road out. the drive through hell is how rafa and his family made it out alive. >> i knew it was bad. it was moving fast, really fast. it got to our homes within seconds. >> reporter: with the fast moving fire closing in on his

home, he grabbed his kids and his friend's children whose pths parents were at work. >> did you get alarms? >> nothing. not even police rolling by or anything. >> reporter: the desperation turning to anner. >> where were you to try to advantage us? we're mad, we're mad. we lost you're town, we lost history. our kids are traumatized. you messed up real bad. >> reporter: inlg emergency offs said sirens were not activated. >> we have doubts that much could have been done with the

fire require fast moving fire like that. >> reporter: the scale of the devastating loss now unprecedented. deadly nest more than 100 years claiming at least 93 lives. >> 3% has been searched.nest mo claiming at least 93 lives. >> 3% has been searched. when you have 200 people running through the scene yesterday, i don't know how much more you want me to describe it. that is what you are stepping on. >> reporter: as fema as the governor survey the damage, search teams with cadaver dogs you no now scouring the ruins. are we just at the beginning of the disaster? >> first few years we searched the cars but we couldn't enter structures. our guys are not trained to

enter smolders instructing to look for human remains. >> reporter: and questions also mounting over the cause of the blaze which is still under investigation. with fbi evidence recovery teams now on scene. and a new class action lawsuit alleges the destruction could have been avoided if the utility company had deenergized its power lines ahead of the high wind weather. and hawaiian electric saying they don't comment on pending litigation and that at this early stage, no cause for the fire has been determined. and for hundreds of families, the focus remains their missing loved ones and now a demand for answers. >> we're not leaving. none of us are leaving. we'll he rebuild the town and make it better. congress up, congressional republicans demanding a special

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this after the supreme court banned the use of race in college admissions. the research shows that ivy league schools, 1 in 6

students -- joining us steve ratner. walk us through this, because there's categories in terms of schools. >> sure, mika. it's an interesting study. obviously parents are getting ready to apply to schools again. we just had that supreme court decision about affirmative action. let's look at how rich people fare at these schools. let's compare the three groups of schools. this dotted line are flag ship public schools. high quality public schools. you can see your chances of getting admitted regardless of income are roughly about the same down from the bottom to the top. if you apply to what's called an ivy plus, your chances remain roughly the same until you get up here to the top 1%, the

top .1%. suddenly your chances go up 2.2 times the average. if you're a legacy with a parent or close relative who went to one of these schools, at every single income level your chances are substantially higher. your chances go up to five times. also really appreciate that most people get better recommendations out of high school. if you look at academic ratings, it's roughly the same. if you look at nonacademic ratings, the richest people have a much higher chance of getting a high recommendation for their nonacademic activities, 1.5 times of getting a better

guidance counsellor recommendation, 1.3 times of getting a better teacher recommendation. >> steve, it's not surprising on many fronts. we've all dealt with academic advisors and guidance counsellors. parents are going to say, hey, we're rich, write something nice for my kid. the thing i found coming from a family who grew up across the deep south, the thing that shocked me was when it was time to take the s.a.t., my mom said, you've got the s.a.t. tomorrow. i went and took it and that was it. most middle class americans,

it's not the blood sport that it is in like a lot of elite communities where i've read that kids like 5, 6, 7 years old, it's absolutely crazy. they start prepping for the s.a.t. at these bizarrely early ages. it seems a lot of this just has to do with communities and i guess wealthier communities where they know how to work the process, thousand game the process. how does that play into it? >> let me go to my third chart for a second. if you look at what you referring to as the pipeline, one of the problems of getting more kids into these elite schools is they simply don't even take the test. if you look down here all the way up to the 70th percentile of incomes, fewer than half of kids

coming out of high school actually take the s.a.t.s and they don't score particularly well for a lot of the reasons you're alluding to in terms of preparation. these are kids with scores of less than 1,000 on their s.a.t.s. they're the majority of kids with lesser income. in the top 1% of income, a higher percentage take the test and their scores at the 1400 level, which is a level that will help you get into an elite school, goes up to 20%. there is a big pipeline problem. one of the things people talk about to solve this problem is to eliminate legacy preferences at these universities, eliminate preferences for elite sports like sailing and squash. if you did that, what these researchers found is that, in fact, the percentage of kids coming from the top would only go down from 42% to 33%.

33% of the kids at these schools would still come from the top 5%. this whole question of how you get more kids from diverse backgrounds into schools is actually very complicated. coming up, a live report from iowa after republican white house hopefuls hit the state fair over the weekend hoping to win over voters. "morning joe" is back in a moment. voters. "morning joe" is back in a moment when migraine strikes, you're faced with a choice. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating?

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things, it's so horrible. you see your taxes going through the roof. what i've done, i just feel so strongly about the farmer. you had somebody say, well, we don't really care about the farmers, meaning the other side, and they don't care about the farmers. >> you heard somebody say, you know, the other side, donald trump with his typical doom and gloom rhetoric full of just made-up things that he's just making up as he riffs along the way. that was part of his very brief speech on saturday at the iowa state fair, talking about the farmers. the former president seemed to steal all of the attention from the other candidates out there and his supporters made things uncomfortable for them as well. we'll talk about that. but this week, the focus is on georgia. the prosecutor will begin presenting her 2020 election case to a grand jury. nbc's garrett haake is there. he joins us in just a moment. plus, we'll have an update this

hour from maui, where more victims were found overnight, adding more devastation to the deadliest wildfire in modern american history. welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire and elise jordan still with us. this week after more than two years of investigating, district attorney fani willis will begin presenting her case before a grand jury. a majority of that grand jury will have to sign off on an indictment for willis's team to press charges against former president trump or his allies. at least two witnesses that were subpoenaed by the d.a.'s office have confirmed their scheduled dates to appear this week. former lieutenant governor jeff duncan tweeted on saturday that he was scheduled to testify tomorrow.

journalist george cheatie also confirmed his slot in an interview. jen jordan and bee nguyen are also both confirmed to have received subpoenas. d.a. willis has said she will announce my potential charging decisions by september 1st. for more, let's bring in garrett haake live this morning in atlanta. what else can you tell us? >> reporter: it's somehow been a little bit less than two weeks since donald trump was in court in washington facing federal charges related to his efforts to overturn the election nationally. he could face new charges related to those same efforts to overturn the election here in georgia with that grand jury expected to meet this week with the possibility of an indictment coming the end of this week. this morning, the republican presidential primary racing toward january's iowa caucuses.

>> we are going to win big and make america great again. >> reporter: taking a detour through georgia, where donald trump may face an historic fourth indictment this week. the former president under investigation by the fulton county district attorney for his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election in georgia, a state president biden carried by fewer than 12,000 votes. this january 2021 phone call to the secretary of state a key piece of evidence. >> i just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> reporter: the former president defending that call as "perfect" on social media and lashing out at the democratic d.a. fani willis. trump's social media also now a potential issue in the case he faces in washington, d.c. there judge tanya chutkan on friday warned the president's team about making inflammatory

statements. overnight sunday trump attacking chutkan and sharing posts including a photoof the judge. chutkan warned violations could increase the likelihood of a quick trial. mr. trump leading the gop field by a wide margin, lumping all woes together as politically motivated. his rivals sought to make gains the old-fashioned way, flipping pork chops and shaking hands at the iowa state fair. with florida governor ron desantis and mr. trump crisscrossing the fairgrounds on the same day. desantis dogged by pro-trump protesters. as republicans try to energize their base, they're also zeroing in on a political headache for president biden following the attorney general's announcement friday that trump-appointed delaware u.s. attorney david weiss would become a special counsel to investigate the president's son hunter after a plea deal on tax-related charges collapsed last month. >> these are facts the american people have a right to get to

the bottom of. >> reporter: one of the key differences between this case and all the others against donald trump is that in georgia cameras are typically allowed in the courtroom. that means if donald trump is indicted here, it would be the first time the rest of the country would get to see him stand in front of a judge and enter a plea as a criminal defendant. >> hey, garrett. it's jonathan. we know one of those who's received a subpoena in this case is former senator jen jordan. certainly activity apace. we also should note the former president has been in truth social in all-caps screeds in fulton county. talk to us about some trump associates who also could theoretically be indicted or charged there in fulton county. >> reporter: well, jonathan, probably the biggest name on

that list is rudy giuliani, who's kind of the link between jen jordan and the rest of this case too. remember, giuliani came down to georgia, tried to put together these hearings basically in the state legislature to really get the legislature involved in the efforts to overturn the election. his name is the one i'm watching for most closely. obviously we and other news organizations have reported he's one of the unnamed, unindicted cconspirators in the federal case. beyond that, it's more speculative. the prosecution here might include the rico statute here in georgia. it's so broad. would we see more folks involved with the trump campaign, folks involved in the washington side of this? or might we see charges against some figures here in georgia who were part of this process? there was some reporting over the weekend about coffee county, a small rural county southeast of here in georgia where data

from voting machines was eventually handed over to the trump campaign. that's also part of this investigation. i think that's the other take-away here for me is, all these other cases have been focused narrowly on donald trump. even the documents case is about donald trump. this case is going to be much bigger and broader than anything we've seen up until now in the saga of donald trump and the 2020 election. jonathan. >> nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. a growing number of republicans say they do not support attorney general merrick garland's decision to appoint u.s. attorney david weiss as special counsel in the hunter biden probe. that is despite more than 30 republican senators who wrote garland just last year asking him to appoint weiss to that very position, but many of those republicans are now

backtracking, saying weiss cannot be trusted following the plea deal that was offered to hunter biden but later fell apart in his tax and gun charges case. joining us now, democratic member of the house oversight committee, congressman jared moskowitz of florida. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. can you explain to our viewers what are the legitimate questions about hunter biden out there and any connection those questions have to president biden being involved in any way? i'm hearing from my republican friends that president biden did crimes just like donald trump. i'm thinking they're missing something in this and there might be some disinformation floating around out there. clear up for us where you think there are legitimate questions of impropriety and possibly more. >> thanks for having me. first of all, if your friends are cay saying that, they're getting the message that the

republicans are intentionally putting out. the moderate republicans in the house know they can't save donald trump. he has the triple crown of indictments right now. he's batting a thousand on every indictment we know he's going to get. there is not a single shred of evidence that has anything to do with joe biden. look, hunter obviously has the tax issue, he has the gun issue and he may have further issues. we're going to find out because trump-appointee david weiss is going to get into that, not just the 30-plus senators who sent a letter, but 90-plus house republicans sent a letter saying they wanted david weiss to be appointed special prosecutor, including most of the freedom

caucus asked for that. look, they have a little amnesia. that's what happens today in politics. there's not a single shred of evidence that goes to joe biden. if you listen to the republican language, you can see it. that's why they never say joe biden in any of these committee hearings or in any of the tweets the committee has put out. they say the biden family or they say the bidens trying to link hunter to joe. hunter may be in trouble. if he did those things, he needs to be held to account. you're not going to hear democrats saying this is the weaponization of the department of justice. no. we're going to say no one is above the law, just like we've been saying about donald trump. >> how does this special counsel impact biden going into election season? this is going to be a long shadow and is going to provide the trump campaign fodder for saying, oh, look, he's got

corruption problems too in his own family. >> yeah. i mean, look, the hunter biden thing isn't ideal. obviously the president's son has a special counsel, special prosecutor appointed to investigate these matters. but that is a hunter issue. it is specifically a hunter issue. it is not a joe biden issue. at every single solitary turn, at every committee hearing, at every witness the republicans have brought, there's not one link to joe biden. in fact, the last witness, their star witness that they brought specifically said joe biden had no conversations about business and he was not involved in the business. he even said that 1023 form that republicans put out there that's seven years old that said joe biden got some money, he said that information was false. and he was hunter's business partner. so this is just the nature of the beast. we've seen this before. they did this to hillary on benghazi. they said specifically what they

were doing then. they're saying the same thing. chuck grassley said he's not interested in the facts. he just wants to put this out there and let the voters decide what it all means. the republicans have opened a can of worms on this, right? we have long talked about jared kushner taking billions of dollars from the saudis. that's what the democrats are going to talk about. okay, if this is something you want to focus on and you're interested in, quote, unquote, justice and fairness, we have to look at how jared kushner, who had no investment experience at all and no middle east experience at all was sent to the middle east over the secretary of state and wound up getting a $2 billion investment from the saudis and hundreds of millions of dollars from other foreign countries. listen to chris christie. he's the one saying this should be investigated. >> jonathan lemire here. steve ratner brought us some data on the kushner investments

earlier on in the show. the white house, despite republicans claiming the fix is in and david weiss will sandbag this, let's remember he's a trump appointee. no white house is happy about a special counsel appointment. they do recognize now it will shadow the reelection bid. i want to ask you about what your republican colleagues in the house might be up to next. there's been an increase in chatter here. they'll continue with their own probes of hunter biden. that's one thing. they say they're going to use this, the idea the fix is in, two-tiered system of justice, the rhetoric to engage in an impeachment inquiry of the president himself. give us a sense what that would mean if your republican colleagues went down that path. >> i fully anticipate they're going to impeach joe biden. i think there was some thought they could impeach mayorkas or garland. they may add that in as a sweetener just to impeach the entire government and make the

impeachment inquiry worthless, quite frankly. i expect them to do this. this is something donald trump wants. this is something that donald trump has told them he would like to see. i think, quite frankly, the leadership in the house has stopped this from happening. i've got to imagine the reason they've slow walked it so far is the polling on it ain't good. if the american people wanted this, joe biden would have been impeached six months ago when they got power. something tells me the polling isn't so good. they also know the american people are going to rally around joe biden as soon as they start impeaching him with no evidence, just based on innuendos and this hunter stuff. i think the american people are going to rally around the president. i think that's what the republican leadership knows, which is why they buried these articles of impeachment in committee and didn't have a single committee hearing yet. as we get into the fourth indictment, as we get into the primary season, i expect them to

have an impeachment inquiry running at the same time as the donald trump hearings are going on. that is an intentional thing they're going to do to try to have this dual messaging that joe biden is just as bad as donald trump. listen, the american people have known joe biden for 50 years. he's a known commodity. the idea that they're taking this family and trying to turn them into the biden crime family, it's creative, but it's just not true. >> democratic congressman jared moskowitz of florida, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. so 2024 republican white house hopefuls descended upon iowa over the weekend for the state fair there. the annual event marks the true beginning of the presidential primary cycle for the candidates. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali live from des moines. tell us all about it.

>> reporter: it was the unofficial kickoff of primary season here in iowa. of course, we know these candidates have all been coming here trying to press the flesh with iowa voters long ahead of the iowa caucus. that is typically the way this state is won, through retail politics and multiple stops. of course, we're also looking at the polls, which show donald trump still dominant ahead of most of the republican field. he has not spent much time in this state. i think the number of visits he's had don't even hit the double digits here. he only spent about an hour and a half at the fair. you played some of his remarks there, a lot of the same song and dance we've heard from the former president, being defiant in the face of three indictments with a fourth one looming in georgia. for everyone else in the field, they are now balancing the trump factor, which of course, will loom over everything with the fact they are still squarely in the introducing themselves to voters phase of this race.

the polls have been stagnant. in my conversations with candidates this weekend, it's clear they're not looking at the state fair to move those numbers. instead they're looking ahead about a week from now to the first republican debate. trump may or may not be there, but that'sroiling their prep. here's what nikki haley said to me about their prep and whether or not trump should be on the stage. are you preparing for a world in which trump is on the stage? >> i know trump very well. i know exactly what gets under his skin. i know exactly what he does. look, i think he was the right president at the right time. i don't think he's the right president going forward. i think when you put all of the options on that stage, people are going to be able to tell which direction they want to go. they don't want to go backwards, they want to go forwards. if he's not on the stage, he's taking the chance everybody is going to talk about his record

and talk about why he's not on that stage. >> reporter: you've got to appreciate the attempt to goad the former president onto the stage by saying he's scared to debate his republican colleagues. the reality is not just trump deciding whether or not to stroll onto the debate stage in milwaukee. it also requires him to sign a pledge that he would eventually support the nominee if it's not him. we've all seen this play before. the loyalty pledge exists in many ways because trump exists. it is all eyes on him on that debate stage. there's very little he can do to go up in the polls on that stage, but there could be damage done if he shows up there and is the person that all of his rivals are trying to get their viral moment off of. he's the frontrunner, he's the man to beat. everyone is going to have to figure out the way to litigate trump's record whether he's there or not.

>> ali vitali, live in des moines iowa, thank you very much. governor ron desantis was in iowa. there's a column in the "wall street journal" urging desantis to return to the message that helped fuel his landslide reelection victory as governor in florida last year. she writes, where is that ron desantis today? smothered under a pile of polling data, focus groups and chattering advisors which have boiled his prior recipe? the problem isn't campaign tactics or spending or resources. the problem is the adoption of trump-style grievance politics, which is him chasing a slice of gop primary voters that won't have any anyway. for this, he is ceding the rest of the electorate. gone were the common sense

explanations, crowded out by mr. desantis's rants against central planners, the ruling class, elites, progressive corporations, entrenched washington politicians and china. it was a speech designed to rile people up, to reduce the election to class and idealogical warfare. or as mr. desantis summed it up, we win, they lose. this is light years away from the ron desantis who last year winningly made the case that economic growth benefits all. elise, i would say that ron desantis's time as governor has been riddled with hypocrisy. he was pushing the vaccine and supporting dr. fauci. now fauci is the enemy. there's so many different versions of ron desantis. i think the electorate is just left confused as to what is this

guy. >> coupled with not the most compelling candidate in terms of charisma that is popping out on the campaign trail. >> no. he's got zero. >> and you look at what he did in the last election round, and everyone talked about what a huge margin. but he was running against charlie crist at the end of the day. not exactly the matchup of the century and a little bit unsurprising that he was able to do as well as he did. coming up, a trail of loss and destruction. officials in hawaii desperately searching for survivors as the death toll climbs to 96 now. what the governor of hawaii is saying about the recovery efforts. first, it wasmarines, then the army and then the navy that will become the third military branch without a senate-confirmed leader.

we'll talk about senator to be tommy tuberville. y tuberville at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzhiemer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ ) the first fda-approved rsv vaccine. arexvy is used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. ( ♪♪ )

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today the top-ranked officer in the navy will step down. the move will make the navy the third u.s. military branch without a confirmed top officer, along with the army and the marines. so the army, the marines and the navy, no top officer. it's all because of a hold put in place on military promotions by one republican senator, tommy tuberville of alabama. tuberville is trying to get the military to alter its policy on abortion. joining us is deputy press secretary sabrina sing. if you could talk about the

consequences of what senator tuberville is doing, i would like you to start with military readiness and also end with perhaps making the military an atmosphere that women would not want to be a part of. >> thanks, mika, so much for having me today. this is unfortunately an historic and unprecedented day the military is facing with three heads of our military services with unconfirmed senate leadership. the army, the marine corps and our navy. we've never seen this in history in the department. what does this mean for readiness? in a time when we are facing the growing challenge of russia and europe and the rising threat of china, we need our navy senate confirmed leaders more than ever to ensure the safety and freedom of our skies, of our international passageways and

allowing free trade and commerce to be conducted all around the world. it's incredibly important to have these leaders in place and also incredibly damaging when you don't for our national security and our readiness all around the world. our leaders that are senate confirmed interact with our allies on a daily basis. when you don't have confirmed leaders, that sends a clear message that china and russia enjoy sowing those seeds even more. >> the crazy thing about this is senator tuberville could continue this indefinitely, if i'm understanding this correctly. >> that's right. unfortunately, we have no sign that senator tuberville is lifting his holds any time soon. we have over 300 of our general and flag officers on the senate floor waiting for confirmation right now. as you know, the senate is in recess, and senator tuberville

has said he's not going to let up on these holds, which is frankly incredibly upsetting because these are nonpartisan military officers who have enjoyed bipartisan support not just in this administration but through the trump administration. cq brown was confirmed 98-0 by the trump administration. these are officers that deserve our military to be there for them, deserve the american people to be behind them and they deserve senate confirmation and frankly the stamp of approval from senate leadership that we have confidence in you to protect our interest and our allies here at home and abroad. >> you mention the big picture implications overseas. but just at home, on military bases across the country, the impact of service members who are there trying to serve their country every day, what is the trickle-down effect and how is this making their lives more

difficult too? >> unfortunately, this has such an adverse effect for military families. summer is the time we conduct moves for our military families, for spouses, for children around the country and around the world. it allows for our military children to get enrolled in schools, for our spouses to find new jobs and child care for their children. that is all put on hold right now. again, we have over 300 officers in limbo. by the end of the year, we could have up to 650 officers. we are already hearing stories of parents who disenrolled their children from school and are facing this hard decision of do they move at their own expense to where their military spouse could be positioned and enroll their child in school and hopefully the senate confirmation goes through quickly? or do they wait and try to reenroll their children where they are locally. again, we're talking about moving costs. imagine doing that with a child that doesn't know what school

they're going to be going to in the fall. this has devastating consequences. we have the missile defense agency with an acting director, a one star general that would usually be a three star in command. it's incredibly damaging and we're seeing the effects right at home in senator tuberville's home state. >> deputy pentagon press secretary sabrina sink, thank you very much. we'd love to have you back. thank you. >> thank you for having me. before we go to break, an update on the devastating wildfires burning across the island of maui. firefighters in hawaii continue to battle flames this morning as officials have confirmed that at least 96 people have died. the wildfire now ranks as the deadliest in modern u.s. history, surpassing 2018's

campfire in california which killed 85. we'll be following the recovery efforts as they move forward. up next, a look at some of the other stories we're following this morning, including new details surrounding a house explosion in pennsylvania that was captured on camera. we'll show you the video of the massive fireball that showered the suburban neighborhood with debris. "morning joe" will be right back. debris "morning joe" will be right back somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis.

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an investigation is under way in pennsylvania after a house explosion left five people dead, including a 12 year old. >> reporter: this is the terrifying moment a deadly house explosion devastated a western pennsylvania community. first, a massive fireball, then a shower of debris across the

neighborhood captured by multiple home cameras. the explosion and fire flattened three homes, shattered windows and scorched at least a dozen others, say authorities. five people were killed, including this man and his 12-year-old son keegan. >> we have a full building completely gone. we have copious amounts of debris. >> reporter: craig stepped outside to what he said felt like a war zone. >> imagine a bomb going off in front of your house. >> reporter: he helped pull his neighbor from the rubble. you may have saved his life. >> i hope so. i and this community have prayed hard. >> reporter: the exact cause of the explosion still under investigation. the explosion literally lifted

you off your feet? >> it threw us off the couch to the floor. >> reporter: this man lived several doors down, even spending the night before with the victims the night before the blast. now a community trying to support each other amid the devastation. >> sometimes things like this bring communities closer together. i think that's what we have right now. coming up, a new netflix series digs into the opioid crisis and the prominent family that played a significant role in it. we'll be joined by the director of the series and the author whose book inspired it. "morning joe" is coming right back. inspired it "morning j" oeis coming right back at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzhiemer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us.

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all of human behavior is essentially surprised of two things, running away from pain and toward pleasure. it's a cycle. pain, pleasure, pain, pleasure, again and again. this circle is our existence. it is the very essence of what it means to be human, to be alive. but if we place ourselves right there between pain and pleasure, then we have changed the world. >> wow. that was matthew broderick as richard sackler of purdue pharma, the makers of oxycontin in the new netflix drama "painkiller." the six-episode series digs deep into the roots of the opioid crisis and its impact, from the family man who gets addicted from an injury at work to the lawyer investigating the deadly effects of the drug to the sackler family member at the center of it all, richard sackler.

joining us is director peter berg and barry myer. myer is also the author of the book which was part of the inspiration for the series. i'd like to start with you there, sir, if i could, as the author of the book. how does this series bring to light the sackler family business, its role in this epidemic and perhaps what you want people to take away that they could not grasp if they haven't read the book. >> mika, thank you very much for having me on. i think the show illuminates the story in a way that it's really never been told before. it kind of helps people understand the scope of this incredible betrayal, the crime that occurred. you know, it dramatizes it in a

creative fantastic way. that's all a credit to pete berg, the director, the screenwriters and what really was a fantastic cast. >> what do we learn about richard sackler in matthew broderick's performance, peter? >> as barry just said, for me, obviously i understand that oxycontin is a problem and the opioid epidemic is very real. what i didn't understand and what i think we learn quite well thanks to barry's book and what we were able to do with it is the complexity and the effectiveness with which the sackler family lied, manipulated, bribed and sort of cheated their way into billions of billions of dollars. i didn't understand quite how good they were at being so very bad. >> barry, give us a little bit

of a sense there of the sackler family just in terms of what money they made from this, what sort of steps they took to avoid perhaps being held accountable for the negative effects. just give us a sense of the human toll. >> it's mind boggling in all those statistics. they made billions and billions of dollars from oxycontin. since the drug was first introduced, over a quarter of a million americans have died from prescription opioid overdoses involving oxycontin and other drugs. so the money has been phenomenal. the death toll has been staggering. i mean, oxycontin is a valuable drug for cancer, for chronic pain. purdue pharma could only make billions from it by lying, by saying it was good for everyday

common pain, back pain, dental pain and that it wouldn't be abused or cause patient addiction. >> barry, you've been following this since around the time i entered college back in the day, so for other two decades, which is just incredible. you really were at the forefront of discovering what was going wrong with the marketing of this drug. in the series you try to do a comparison with the consequences of the crack epidemic and then the opiate epidemic. can you talk about the disparities and how consequences were meted out? >> you know, our justice department has a particular habit of not prosecuting corporate criminals when it comes to drug dealers on the street, when it comes to cartel members, they're happy to parade them before the cameras, to throw them into prison. but they chickened out when it came to going to bat against

purdue, its executives and the executives of many other opioid producers and manufacturers. in many ways this disaster was not simply the doing of one company. it was a failure by everyone in the system to do their part to stand up and to do the right thing. >> you know, peter, as the family goes through the process of accountability or tries to defend themselves, in this series, do we ever see personal accountability? do they understand at all the impact they had on a society with these drugs? >> i mean, if they do, we've seen very little indication of that. you know, their chief strategy for so long was to do what they called hammer the abusers so that if your 18-year-old son hurt his leg, was given

oxycontin, got addicted, well, that's too bad, your son was a drug addict. that was their chief strategy. that was a pretty telling indicator that there have never been any real apologies apologi feel authentic and then suggest they have any awareness or concern over what they've done. they just lawyer up and try and do everything they can to protect their money. >> the show "painkiller" is streaming on netflix now. peter berg and barry meier, thank you. up next, a look at the stories making front page headlines across the country. "morning joe" is back in a moment. oe" is back in a moment ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪

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time now for a look at the morning papers. in california, "the san diego

union-tribune" is reporting the state legislature is considering a bill that would raise the minimum wage for certain health care workers to $25 an hour by 2025. backers of the measure hopes it will help ease the state's worker shortage, while opponents say the increased payroll costs will lead to fewer jobs. in louisiana, the daily advertiser is highlighting a new bill that would ban drivers from using cell phone. current law prohibits talking and texting on their phones, but only in school zones. if passed, the new bill will expand those restrictions to using a phone or wireless device for any reason on all public roads and highways. finally, jonathan lemire, donald trump, the former president, continues to lash out on social media at those involved in his election interference cases. msnbc's barbara mcquade calls it witness tampering in real life.

what can we expect in terms of the parameters that judge chutkan in the d.c. case has given him? >> he seems to be testing the judge's boundaries right now in realtime. i'm looking at truth social right now. he's had a series of all-caps screeds about the proceedings in jury, knowing there's going to be grand jury testimony this week, including this one about former lieutenant governor jeff duncan who is being called in to testify tomorrow. he's a witness and trump is talking about him in what can easily be referred to as an intimidating fashion. we'll e have to see what the judge says. >> we pick up a coverage after a quick final break. k icfinal bre. ? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it.

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