a free woman, one the big questions is why didn't she get sick. i'll send it back to you. >> molly hunter, thank you into that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. from the beginning he was way out front. on the existential threat to our democracy, and the criminal investigation into donald trump's attempt to overturn his defeat in georgia. that is despite warnings from republican officials that, quote, someone could get shot. and now it comes down this this, any day really any hour that sprawling year's long criminal investigation by fani willis could come to a head with yet another indictment of the disgraced twice impeached and thrice indicted ex-president. what expects are watching right now, trump could get indicted

with more than a dozen of his closest allies. that is according to some news accounts. an it this come though thafternoon. the grand jury had heard from half of ten witnesses expected to testify in this case at this stage. among those witnesses, former georgia state representative bee wen. present for the 2020 hearing where rudy giuliani pedalled false election claims an urged legislators to appoint a slate of fake trump electors. two other witnesses who were expected to testify tomorrow have been called in as well. they include journalist george chidi, who stumbled upon a december 14th, 2020 meeting of fake electors, as well as former georgia lieutenant governor jeff duncan, he's a republican who has been openly critical of trump's baseless claims of fraud in the state of georgia. signs a potential end game in fani willis's criminal

investigation into the ex-president and his allies is where we begin today with our favorite reporters and friends. former top justice department official, our friend and msnbc legal analyst, andrew weissmann is back with us. also joining us, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman and from the atlanta journal constitution, tamara is here. tell me what you are watching for? i know at this hour and at this stage it is literally body language is being scoped out, who is coming in and coming out and who is taking a break, what cars are coming in and coming out are all of the things that we try to read into. tell me what you'r looking into at this hour? >> reporter: well things seem to be speeding up here in downtown atlanta. initially two witnesses who told us that they were going to come in tomorrow morning, were actually told they were called by the dea office and today to come in this afternoon. georgia cheaty, an independent

journalist who stumbled upon a meeting of independentoo lectors an i saw him up the steps and jeff duncan who was told to come in tomorrow also is coming in this afternoon. he confirmed that to the agc. so we'll confirm if they have anything to say coming out the meeting and any other familiar faces may be testifying and we're waiting to see if there is any signal that we could see charges handed up this afternoon and going into the evening. >> tamara, fannie willis has made no secrets of his concerns about local security there around the courthouse in atlanta. what does that look like? do you see any outwards signs they're ready for something as early as this afternoon? >> reporter: i mean, nothing has really changed since this morning. there are giant orange barricades behind me filled with water. we see a lot of police presence around here, big law

enforcement, black suvs blocking key streets and entrances but i haven't seen law enforcement in the last couple of hours. i that said, i know there is a lot of preparation going on behind the scenes nearby to be ready for in case something -- the worst were to happen. >> tamara, some of the most compelling witnesses against donald trump have been his most ardent supporters and that was the congressional hearing. this is very different. a criminal investigation. but as far as we understand it, as far as what public, her tar wits are all trump supporting state republicans as well. how is that playing in the final hours an days? >> reporter: well, this group that is coming in that we've at least been able to confirm over the last couple of days, they aren't necessarily his most ardent supportersch we heard from two democratic legislators

who have been critical of trump over years. we saw gabe sterling who is an official in the secretary of state office, who was a supporter but his pushed back forcefully against this information that has come in the aftermath of the 2020 election. so not necessarily these big dogged supporters and jeff duncan has made a name for himself with the gop 2.0 plan envisions what it could look like in a post trump america. andrew weissmann, as you watch these could be the final hours or final days before fani willis makes a move here, what do you see and what are you looking >> well, the normal questions when asked are when, who, and what. and the when is largely knownch it is not today. it looks like it is going to be tomorrow. the who, it is certainly going to be donald trump but let me

put a pin on that one. and the what, it is clearly going to be charges related to the events leading up to january 6. but with a georgia focus. but what i'm looking at is a couple of things, do i think viewers should keep an eye out for, which is who else is going to be charged either known names, such as rudy giuliani, sidney powell, even mark meadows as well as state electors, that sort of an open issue and why is that important? because that will put additional pressure on them to cooperate and that goes to the other thing that is the most important thing about these charges, a pardon does not effect these charges. so if donald trump wins the presidency, or an ally, they have no ability to change these tate charges. that also means that if there is a slew of conspirators who are

charged, they could not be federally pardoned. so there is more pressure on them to cooperate because of these charges than at the federal level. and then the final point, nicolle, which may sound a little out of left field, is bail. now we have seen the former president get bail in manhattan, in florida, and in d.c. we have also seen the former president continue to make statements that at least arguably are obstruction of justice or intimidating witnesses. why is that important? because in georgia, the statute that may apply here depending on what is charged is one where the presumption is one that the defendant has the burden of rebutting. and in other words it is on the the defendant to show that he will not commit crimes and not a

rick of flight and let me give you the exact words because this is the provision that the court has to find to release someone on bail in georgia. which is that the defendant poses no risk of intimidating witnesses, or otherwise obstructing the administration of justice. poses no risk of intimidating witnesses. to me, that is going to be for a judge who is going to treat donald trump or anyone else like any other defendant, that could be a problem. because just today we saw a continuation of tax on the d.c. federal judge and truth social saying that jeff duncan, the former lieutenant governor, should not comply with the grand jury subpoena in georgia. you can't tell a witness not to comply with a grand jury subpoena unless there is some legal ability to do that.

but that is not what the former president did. so, it will be interesting to see how the judge deals with bail as we go forward. >> andrew, let me point you out on that. as you just point out, witness intimidation is his brandch it is what he does. he wouldn't deny that. he gets his tv lawyers out on the show that he has a right to do for president, whether it is mike pence or jeff duncan or others. are you saying that there could be a clash of -- as early as right away? >> yes. absolutely. now, i know a lot of people including myself were thinking how could somebody who is running for president be thrown in jail pending trial? but remember, you could run for president without intimidating witnesses. so if you make the choice to intimidate witnesses -- i know this is incredible that we're having this conversation. >> it is amazing. yeah. >> so, it is really not a clash.

if you want to run for president, absolutely. and this is what judge chutkan was saying, you do what you want to do to run for president, but i've got a criminal case to run and that takes precedent. so if the law is in georgia that the defendant has to establish to a judge that he poses no rick of intimidating witnesses, no risk or other wise obstructing justice, that is a tough hurdle and i'm not saying that a judge will throw him in, but that is a legal standard and it is interesting to see how lawyers for donald trump are going to seek to do that when he has actually said if you come after me, i'll come after you. and even after, if it is the day after admonitions in federal court in d.c. has continued to, as you say, engage in what he

does, his m.o., which is intimidation and fear which he is doing for obvious reasons. >> you know, harry litman, the the comparisons to a mobster could be overraut. but in terms of this friction in a target, in this case indicted again, a charge target, and the system, i don't know if there is any more apt comparison and i wonder what you're watching? >> there is no more apt comparison. but andrew's point is one of welter of different issues where you read the letters of the law and the letter of the law points strongly against him, burdens of proof, it sounds legally archaic, but think of being john laurel having to stand up and make the case there is no rick of witness intimidation, it is virtually impossible. now, it will be a very important

point in the first instance whether the prosecution, whether willis's office will seek pretrial detention. i'm like, andrew, it is impossible to think that what would happen and yet the letter of the law seems to appoint strongly toward it. we're playing this out in many different contexts in which we want to treat trump like any other defendant but it certainly, in certain context, that seems to dictate all kinds of consequences including going into jail now awaiting trial. i want to underscore one thing, i think that to andrew's point, slew is the operative word here. but what we're going to get that is really in contrast to the three other cases is all of the president's men and women. 18 people have been notified they're targets here. some of them have sought and received immunity. but we're going to get not -- it is not just the pressure, but a wealth of information as we just

found out about in coffee county that has been missing to date from the various indictments we've had. which, really, will be just a huge conspiracy involving many people to the top and that matters in the law but it also will matter in the facts. we're going to learn a ton in what i expect to be an up to 100 page talking indictment from fani willis. >> i want to pull back the curtain on some reporting we are trying to run down. nbc news has learned that judge robert mcnearney has told them to go get zinner and get his cell phone number from the assistant because she's leaving at 5:00 p.m. this means the courtroom deputy will be calling the judge directly to alert him if and when there are indictments he needs to preside over. the judge told the press that other regular business is

finished for the day. and the courtroom deputy in the room told reporters that judge is keeping the courtroom open until the district attorney's office tells him otherwise. we'll working on getting one of our correspondents who is on ground there up to sort of flush that out for us. but harry litman, what does that sound like? get dinner doesn't mean go home and go to bed. >> he's a straight shooter. he's the guy who is the chief judge who we saw issue some very thoughtful opinions. he's cutting him a break. he's saying i know why you're here. you could go get dinner. it doesn't mean exactly it couldn't happen tonight. but it certainly seems to poin in that direction. it won't be for a couple of hours. one contraindication, we've been looking at tuesday at the earliest, but it is a striking fact that two people who were going to come on tuesday were told to come today as your colleague just said. but it does look like, mcbernie

knows and if he told that to the reporters, i think we could also maybe take a deep breath and turn to a watchful and waiting mode and maybe think about tomorrow. notwithstanding the indications we've had all day that they were really going into hurry up mode. >> andrew weissmann, any expertise to add to how we read into this? >> i do think that the thing that people should focus on is something that i alluded to and harry pointed out, which is the other people. everyone is thinking what will donald trump be charged with. but it is really useful to focus on those other people. because they are state charges, because they are federally pardon proof, this is one where there could be an enormous amount of pressure on them to cooperate in not just the state case, but the federal case. so, let's jut take for instance

a mark meadows. he could be charged here or rudy giuliani, and if you're making a calculus, if you are one of those people and you have the good defense lawyer, you are no longer thinking, okay, i could be pardoned out of this if a republican wins. and your window for cooperating and your utility is kind of now. in terms of what you could give the government. so, who else is charged and what they're charged with and what potential sentence is, is all going to be really important. that is what i think the state and federal prosecutors are going to be looking at, is how much pressure they could bring against those so-called secondary players to actually flip and give them inside account of the allegations. >> let me put in front of all three of you two of the witnesses that were able to report and that tomorrow's reporting have gone in today. one them is the independent

journalist george cheaty. here is what he told nbc news he saw. this is important because this is someone who was in today before this grand jury. >> almost immediately someone shouted at me he has a camera coming. and i'm also hustled out of room. i think i was there maybe 20 seconds. but i said, like, what kind of meeting are you having? we're having a meeting and i said what kind of meeting are you having? they said it is an education meeting. >> so what does that say to you that this is one of the perhaps final batch of witnesses that this grand jury would hear from? >> well, i think we're going to end up seeing at least part of case being just like what we saw in that michigan fake electors suit. you know, if you are just engaging in a lawful process with a slate of alternative

electors if you're litigation wins, there is no reason for this cloak and dagger and according to this witness, lying to him about what the purpose of the meeting is. you would say, we're here because if our lawsuit wins we're going to be slate of electors that will be voting for donald trump. there is no reason to have this be behind a mask and a screen. so, that kind of evidence of hiding what you're doing is really damning. so i would strongly suspect that that kind of witness is there for those charges and we will see just like what we saw in michigan, those fake electors or at least some of them being charged. >> you all mentioned trump's attacks on truth social today. this is what he said about jeff duncan also in the final -- in the batch of witnesses in today.

in a little bit ahead of schedule, this is what trump smeared him with today. i'm reading reports that failed former lieutenant governor jeff duncan will testify before the grand jury. he shouldn't. i bear le know him. but he was in the -- for those looking into the election fraud that took place in georgia. i'm not going to finish it but it goes on with delusions an lunacy and i want to show you what geoff duncan said on cnn last week about his visibility into this. >> for me, one of the pinnacle kind of broken moments in this whole process was the state farm arena, right. here we have this kind of cooked up fake senate hearing that shows up at georgia capital that rudy giuliani put on for the sole purpose of releasing a spliced up video that he sold as a steady stream of video and confused and created all kinds

of rumors an conspiracy theories that were 30, 40, 50 cuts of reality and that was a catalyst moment for the whole process. started to take the folks that were on the fence, good hard working republicans that were on fence and the president of united states is telling us that this is a real video and rudy giuliani and the entire apparatus are telling them it is real and sure enough, it is not. it is just bits and pieces of misinformation. >> now all of that has been investigated by multiple jurisdictions and proven to be the case, that it was never true. this lie told about shay moss and ruby freeman were false and rudy now faced potential liability in a defamation case. and i wonder, tammar, how instrumental it is that all of these, you know, republicans have gone on the record and testified to the fraudulent

nature of all of the claims of election fraud in their state? >> and one thing those republicans might be able to speak to is in tent. did these republicans going in allied with the former president, did they know they were making stuff up, that they were telling lies or did they truly believe in their heart of hearts that they were doing the right thing. and especially when it comes to talking about the secret nature of some of the things. the fact that this meeting of alternate electors initially they were telling journalists they couldn't come in. they eventually opened it up. about you what does it say that they didn't want folks in. that the day before a trump campaign operative sent an email saying it is imperative. and having testimony from republicans could help prosecutors show that there was bad intent here. >> we have to sneak in a quick break. but when we come back i want to show you someone who caught our attention and brought all eyes on to georgia. gabe sterling speaking out again on the threat for violence.

we'll have more on what fani willis is learning and doing in the final hours of today's proceedings there. trump's top coup plotters are kecked now to the voting system breach in coffee county, georgia, something we learned about a year and a half ago. we'll bring you that latest reporting. plus, in those other cases, involving the ex-president, as andrew started to lay out for us, judge tanya chutkan has promised to keep an eye on all of his public statements and make sure he's not intimidating witnesses involved in her federal case. so in a late night public tirade for all to see, the ex-president tried to test her. we'll tell you how that went. and later in the broad broadcast, georgia has been ground zero for all of the efforts to over turn the 2020 lek resultsm why this possible indictment could really hit differently than the already thrice indicted ex president.

all that and more when "deadline: white house" returns. don't go anywhere today. te hous. don't go anywhere today. ♪ ♪ ♪ wherever you go. wherever you stay. all you need is one key. earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right. joe biden would rather just stop those corporations

from charging so damn much. capping the cost of drugs like insulin. cracking down on surprise medical bills and all those crazy junk fees. there's more work to do. tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

>> woman: why did we choose safelite? only pay for what you need. we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ my cpa told me i wouldn't qualify for the erc tax refund, so i called innovation refunds. their team of independent tax attorneys will work with your cpa to determine if your company is eligible. [whip sound] take the first step to see if your small business qualifies.

are you concerned once again that we could see violence as a result of former president's words? >> obviously, at this point, you never know what will happen. my biggest concern for years now i've said this at election conference and we get elections officials, someone will be motivated at some point and do something stupid. it is not an organized thing or a bunch of conspirators together it is one mentally unstable individual who will be radicalized and that is my biggest concern through this. >> joining andrew and harry and

tamara is my colleague vaughn hillyard. and it is such a chilling thing to see gabe sterling still talking about his concerns for violence. he was the first person who thrust the lies about georgia into the national conversation when he had that really emotional press conference worried that, quote, someone is going to get shot. if the lies continue. we're now two and a half years post lies and we're learning new things about the trump campaign's role in peddling them and promoting them. and i wonder if you could take us inside what this is all building toward there on the ground? >> reporter: right, nicolle. i was here in georgia that day of that press conference. and i remember it exactly. i was driving and i pulled over the car because really for the first time, it was a notable republican official who was defiant against the accusations that were being levied by donald trump in his numerous number of allies.

ones from out of the state and those within the state including georgia gop chairman, the current chairman david schaefer who is also a target of this investigation here. all of these individuals are now waiting to see whether tonight they may be charged with a criminal crime here in the state of georgia. we just got word from inside of the courtroom where our producer gary is sending us notes right now that judge mcbernie urged the reporters in the room to go grab dinner suggesting this is going to go beyond the 5:00 p.m. deadline in which this courthouse here in atlanta closes. we were not expecting george chidi to testify today and jeff duncan to testify today. both of men are here the athe courthouse as we speak. the question here is at what point tonight is action taken. and if goes back to the conversation off camera, going back to that time period that you laid out there in the aftermath of the 2020 election, was the extent to which donald

trump and his allies continued to perpetuate the fraud claims and continued to think they could overturn the election results here. you and i talked numerous times there was phone call that he placed no raffensperger and also to brian kemp. i remember standing and talking to you when i was outside of the capitol here in georgia when rudy giuliani was speaking before the subcommittee about his false election fraud claims. we were having a conversation, you and i, when donald trump that day of the rally in december and then in the rally in january when he continued to apply that pressure and the conversation was if action were not taken, what would happ if donald trump is the nominee in 2024. >> von, i feel like your our eyes ander ooze on the ground where his lies have led to terrible things happening and i'll never forget your reporting on january 6 as he were walking around the capitol. and i kept wanting to say are you safe there.

but if you could step aside and let us see what recautions are in place to protect against anything happening? it is striking that jeff duncan, one of today's witnessing is talking about not just lies that we toss out there and let what happened happen, but about the manufacturing of a tapes, splieted together deliberately and the cnn reporting last night was about the direction of rudy giuliani and campaign individuals in the break -- there is a lot of passive participation that we knew about. but what fani willis has developed is evidence of active attempts to cleat and overturn a defeat in georgia. >> that is absolutely right. and those -- the conspiracy theories, they live on here today and they are continued to be propagated in realtime by the likes of multiple right-wing conservative outlets that exist here. and i can't -- it is tough. nicolle, i know we've had conversationsst,

outside of trump rallies here and it is -- at what point do we continue to talk about the fraudulent claims that he's going around the countries outing and there is a reality, how many millions of americans continued to believe that, you know, the election works here in fulton county were stuffing ballots into voting machines at the arena just down the road. they still believe it. and they believe katie hobbs is in maricopa putting ballots into the voting machines there. and at what point do folks move on from the 2020 election? i think that donald trump has onlyin gained and ingratiating this in the american public, the segment of it to stand by him and defiant lie take this to the very end wherever that goes. i whats in new hampshire when another woman suggested we're in the cusp of civil war. i think the threat of violence is real and i don't know if we have fully come to terms with how to grapple with the

perpetuation and really the dog ma that exists around donald trump and the fierce loyalism that we saw playing out even at the iowa state fair where hundreds of thousands of forms swarmed to see him, the leader of their party. >> vaughn, does he still attack these individuals, brad raffensperger and he attacked jeff duncan on truth social, but does he still attack these individuals? >> reporter: not as much as you see on social media. to be perfectly honest with you. it is interesting, he -- i threw a couple of questions out to him this weekend when we were in iowa and he's much more willing to type his more explicit thoughts over his phone than he is in person. and i don't know, i haven't been able to fully understand what the reasoning behind that may be. but, he is definitely let up in his directive of the microphone

on these individuals. and yet, i think that the impact and the consequences of his past statements an the chargt targeting of these folks is very much lived on. >> vaughn, one more question for you. i know we've taken up a lot of why you are time and there are demands on it. what are your scenarios today? are you going to do what the judge said and grab dinner and come back to see if there are indictments tonight? do you think it is all clear? what is your best guess about what happens from this point forward? >> reporter: the expectation i have is that we are going to get a set of charges here tonight. by all indications, that these individuals were told to show up tomorrow here, i'm not going anywhere and i haven't seen any others along the street leave either. i think the anticipation is that judge mcburgy made clear he would make the courtroom open as long as fani willis asked him to keep it open and we're approaching 5:00 p.m. and there is little indication that we're going anywhere here in the hours

ahead. >> von hilliard, you are the person who we turn to and trust to be there on the ground and in these big moments so thank you for taking time to talk to us. thank you for being our eyes and ears there as well. we're grateful. and we're here. so just wave your arms and come back in next hour and a half if anything happens. andrew and harry stick around. we're going to keep our eyes on the courthouse. we're going to keep vaughn on a very short leash. but we do want to take a deep dive into something we've touched on and that is the new evidence by fani willis that tried rudy giuliani and those closest to trump to the coup plot in georgia. don't go anywhere. n georgia. don't go anywhere.

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ -dad, what's with your toenail? so researchers can help life underwater flourish. -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own. it's an infection. you need a prescription. nail fungus is a contagious infection. at the first signs, show it to your doctor... ... and ask if jublia is right for you. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. its most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness... ... itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters and pain. jublia is recognized by the apma. most commercially insured patients may pay as little as $0 copay. go to jubliarx.com now to get started.

your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. matching your job description. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon.

i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ brand-new reporting to tell you about on a potentially critical piece of evidence in fani willis' case. it springs from an incident not from the u.s. capitol or the white house or near washington, but in a rural county 200 miles away from atlanta, georgia, the day after the capital insurrection. cnn is reporting that fulton county prosecutors are in possession of text messages and emails directly connecting members of trump's legal team to the early january 2021 voting system breach in coffee county. several individuals involved in the voting system breach in

coffee county are among those who may face charges in the sprawling criminal probe. according to reporting, prosecutors believe that the unauthorized breach of voting machine data was not a freelance effort by people who really liked trump, but a quote, top down push by trump's team to access sensitive voting software. according to people familiar with the situation, end quote. many of what we know is thanks to some intrepid reporting from "the washington post" about a year and a half ago. at that time last year, the post reported this, quote, in two instances, courts or state lawmakers granted trump supporters access to the machines. which are considered by the federal government to be critical infrastructure, vital to national security. they are usually closely guarded. but in at least seven other counties in four states including coffee county, local officials acting without a court order or subpoena gave outsiders access to the machines or their

data. it was all part of what the post described as a quote, secretive multi-state effort to access voting equipment that was broader and more organized and more successful than previously reported and one that was discussed in the oval office. cnn reporting, quote, coffee county was specifically cited in draft executive orders for seizing vote machines and presented to donald trump on december 18th, 2020, during a chaotic oval office meeting. during same meeting, giuliani alluded to a plan to gain, quote volunteer access to machines in georgia. according to testimony from him and others before the house january 6 select committee. we're back with harry and andrew. i think glenn kirshner is coming in a few minutes as well. but this makes me think of chris krebs being fired. this makes me think of all of the efforts that we learned about through the congressional

probe, what trump wanted done in the oval office, the operatives that he gathered when his own lawyers refused to do some of this. this sounds like a devastating piece of evidence and i guess my question for you, andrew, is do you think that this is part of a federal criminal case against trump and the state criminal case against trump? >> we don't know yet. it could be that the state is ahead on this. because of the evidence that they've obtained from coffee county itself. and we'll see, but let's be clear, if there is that evidence, it doesn't mean that it can't be used by jack smith because, remember, what happened in that oval office meeting on december 18th is part of his case. so, he could bring this in even if there is not a factual allegation in the indictment

that is detailed as we may see in fani willis's case. and remember to your point, and in the oval office, at that meeting, plan a was let's see if we can get the military to seize the election machines and pat sip a loan was like, that is not happening. over my dead body. and so this was this effort to try and get it in coffee county. i would note and i think something that is useful for people to keep an eye out for, though, is whether there will be some sort of good faith dissent. because there is an effort and you alluded to it to try and get permission to access this. and so i'll be very interested to see how the charges, this charge, how they deal with that issue. in other words, were there people who were clearly new that you couldn't legally get access to this and yet they were still trying to, quote, get permission but it wasn't anything other

than a fig leaf. or were there people that operated in good faith? so that is the wrinkle that i'll see to get past that particular issue. but i aseem they're going to charge it and they'll have that proof. >> >> andrew, doesn't the time line cut against that. chris krebs declared it the most secure election in u.s. history. and this is post january 6. we already have the election and the machines vouched for. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. the issue is that if you have a local officer saying you have our permission to look at this, even if he didn't actually have authority to do that, there could be a defense of well, i thought he had a parent authority, i thought it was okay if he was giving permission. no, the thing that cuts against that is if you could show that they were fully aware that there was no permission, he wasn't

legally possible for him to do that, that you couldn't give this kind of permission. but remember, you have to -- if you were a prosecutor, you're thinking about what will the defense try to come up with, and how do you defeat that and that is the thing that i'm very focused on, is how do they deal with that issue. agree with you, nicolle, that time line, you know, it doesn't defeat the whole case in any way. but it is an issue with respect to just a charge that has to do with breaching those particular election machines which is a separate potential charge. you do wan to make sure that they knew that -- that permission was not actually valid. >> harry, there is always a part in any trump story where you think if someone wrote this in a movie, it would get sent back to the writers room for being too dumb or too implausible. but this coffee county voting machine makes it to the oval office. and let me read you the draft

order. witnesses in georgia have provided evident of crashes and replacement of a server and connections to the internet and both coffee and ware county have identified a significant percentage of votes being wrongly allocated contrary to the will the voters and coffee county has refused to certify the results and then here is sidney powell and about conversations with donald trump about it. >> we had known that it had happened but we haven't known before it all of the email traffic all the way to top, remember, the proposal that andrew mentioned in december 18th was even for trump a step too far. and some of the other crimes we're dealing with, i won't buy the defense, but at least you could -- it is feeling a little bit like political diesel run amok. not this one. this reminds me of, with apologies to your younger viewers, is watergate and the so-called third rate burglary.

there is no argument and with respect to andrew, and god bless him, his defense experience is showing. but anybody knows you can't -- with permission or not, you may not penetrate voting machines an the permission wasn't from a court. it was from very pro-folks in coffee county that said come oun down. that just doesn't cut it. more over, what we know now, that we didn't know before the reporting a couple of days ago is that it is orchestrated by giuliani and powell and possibly with the knowledge of trump. and this kind of crime, it is both a state crime, a an old-fashioned trespass but all kinds of new fangled computer crimes as well. it is very interesting to touch on your question, it doesn't seem like something smith has because he hasn't charged it. a lot of evidence, but if he had this, it would have been charged, i think. so how that will dove tail with the federal charges will be interesting to see.

but i'm not too -- about a defense. >> so let me read. i thought we had sound but this is a transcript from sidney powell's interview. let me read this to our viewers. this is her deposition. in georgia, and i think we have some correspondent from you on this, is it correct that giuliani at the december 18th meeting that we keep coming back to, that giuliani said that at meeting that he had a plan to get access to machines in georgia. sidney powell, answer, i think that is correct. i think he did. question, from the select committee, you went to the white house to talk to the president about executive order and presidential findings that would alose the seizure and analysis of voting machines, correct? answer from sidney powell, correct. and question, there was quite a bit of discussion while you were at white house for several hours about the topic, is that fair to say? sidney powell, answer, yes. and then in the context or in the course of that discussion,

did giuliani at any point say that he had another plan or a different plan to get access to machines? and he was going to do it voluntarily in georgia? answer, now ma you mention it. yes, i think that is correct. this sounds like people were a part of it and could be devastated threat to the case. >> absolutely. and i think one thing that is useful when you're reading that out, is to think about one of donald trump's defense de jure, which is discussion in aid of a crime. and that makes it not protected by the first amendment. so, you don't know -- if it was a break-in and collusive

break-in as opposed to some permission that somebody honestly thought that this is collusive break-in to -- to try and tamper with those veets, that is a crime. and it is not a first amendment activity. so this will be very strong evident for her if they charge it as we suspect she will. >> all right. please go ahead. >> all right. first in terms of knowledge that it is great. here is what giuliani's lawyer said. he had nothing to do with that. you can't attach a rudy giuliani to sidney powell's crackpot idea. they now you couldn't do this. and sec, i waned to mention, in many ways that georgia is pro government, one of them is speeding trial. and if one of the many defendants requested a speedy trial. it has to be given within a really short period of time. if one them has to stand for

their crimes. that could throw another rench in in everything. tanya chutkan, our friend glenn kirschner will join us to talk about that. he has squared off in the courtroom against her. we'll look at how he predicts she might respond. next. we always had questions. who do we belong to? who are our ancestors?

i know we have them. oh my god, here it is. when i found that immigration record on ancestry®, it was amazing. everything was there. the u.s. was in dire need of nurses during world war ii. tía amalia as a nurse in el salvador decided to answer that call. it's a lot of excitement finding something new. i feel like a time traveler. claudia starts calling me. it's a party every time. ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

type 2 diabetes? only pay for what you need. discover the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease.

and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. ask your health care provider about the ozempic® tri-zone. you may pay as little as $25. when migraine strikes. are the tradeoffs of treating worth it? ubrelvy is another option. it quickly stops migraine in its tracks. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. ask about ubrelvy.

switching gears to the federal case, where donald trump is charged with conspiring to subvert the 2020 presidential election results, the twice impeached, twice indicted disgraced ex-president donald trump is ignoring the warning from the court and the judge last week against making inflammatory statements. targeting the judge in the case, tanya chutkan. on truth social the ex-president accused judge chutkan of being partisan in multiple incendiary posts over the weekend including one that calls her a, quote, obama left-wing activist judge who is running election interference against him accompanied by a picture of judge chutkan's face. as trump pushes the limits of his pretrial conditions just three days after they were set, legal experts are wondering if he will soon face a gag order. joining our coverage, former assistant u.s. attorney, msnbc legal analyst, our friend glenn

kirschner. glenn, there's a piece of this that's about trump, right? and his flag was waved in front of him and with the brain cells of a bull he went charging through the red flag. but there's a piece about how she will respond and react, and i'm interested in hearing you weigh in on that. >> i think we're at a point now where this is sort of integrity of the criminal justice system 101, where at some point i do think the system of justice has to assert itself, as difficult as it might be, as unprecedented as it might be to sort of protect, preserve and promote the integrity of the system. you know, when i saw i think it was a repost by donald trump where he said that judge chutkan admitted to engaging in election interference against donald trump, he is now falsely putting words in her mouth.

and nicolle, can't you just hear it sort of bouncing around in maga world? well, you know, i read that judge chutkan admitted engaging in election interference against donald trump. i could even see jurors, starting jury selection, during voir dire coming in and saying, well, i read that the judge admitted to engaging in election interference. at some point i think, you know, given the need for citizens to view this as a reliable process and the result as a reliable result the system really does need to wrestle with this very difficult, very thorny issue. and i think donald may have actually made that a little bit easier by posting what i think is clearly a threat against a witness or an attempt to intimidate a witness down in georgia. if you'll let me kind of mix criminal apples and oranges here for a minute. >> sure.

>> mixing his federal cases with his state cases. i think what donald trump just did may have sort of walked him one step closer to a jail cell pretrial, pretrial detention. because you know, i was at the courthouse and during his arraignment, you know, the judge, the magistrate judge said something that caused my ears to perk up. and here's what she said. she said, "the most important condition of release, sir, is that you not commit a state, federal, or local crime while on release. if you were to do so, a warrant may issue for your arrest. your conditions of release may be revoked. and you may be held pending trial." what has donald trump just done? he posted something about a witness that he said he knew was about to go into the grand jury down in georgia, geoffrey duncan, the former lieutenant governor, and he said he

shouldn't testify. that's donald trump, i would contend, violating one of the laws of georgia. there's a specific law on the books. it's a two to ten-year felony called influencing a witness. so it really feels like donald trump is forcing the judge's hand because what has he done, he has arguably violated what the magistrate judge told him in no uncertain terms was the most important condition of pretrial release, not to violate any law, federal, state, or local. so we may see judge chutkan pushed too far, and she may have to act and do something that feels like it's unimaginable, which is consider detaining a former president pending trial for his own misconduct. >> i mean, it all comes down to who we are, right? are we capable of holding him to

a standard that even loosely resembles how any of the four of us would be treated if we had been charged in the way that he has been charged? glenn kirschner, your contributions are invaluable. thank you so much for joining us. harry litman, thank you. andrew weissman, as i think every anchor says these days, stick close to that set. we may need you again. much more ahead for all of us. we're nearing 5:00 p.m. in what would normally be the close of business at the courthouse in fulton county, georgia. but as we all know, as vaughn has reported, these are not normal times and that grand jury is still at work. another hour of breaking news straight ahead. please, don't go anywhere today. d please, don't go anywhere today. - did you see my tail when that chewy box showed up? - oh, i saw it. - sorry about the vase. - can we just say vase like normal people? - fine. - i always wondered what it would be like to have a tail. - maybe you did one time. and maybe a thousand years from now, i'll be tail-less using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. - i'm pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years- - vase. - pets aren't just pets. they're more. - vase!

- [announcer] save more on what they love with everyday great prices at chewy. (air whooshing) (box thudding) struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. sleepiness and stomach issues are also common.

side effects may not appear for several weeks. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save.

but i think the number one thing that donald trump can do in this election is fight each and every one of these battles to the death. americans need to know that this is not a banana republic. and right now, right now, right now very few people have faith that that's not the case. that should scare all of us. this cannot be a one-sided system. this cannot be democracy only when we win. that doesn't work that way. >> isn't that something? hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in the east now. like a runaway train from that moment in georgia onward. the plot to steal the 2020 election hurtled out of control faster and faster until its

catastrophic climax on january 6. so when it comes to justice and accountability for that calamity you can understand why the state of georgia is of special perhaps unique focus. as fulton county district attorney fani willis reportedly makes her case, recall the ways that that state serves as the poster child for trump's efforts to overturn his election defeat. today both "the new york times" and the "washington post" laid out in great detail the ways that trump's team deployed every tool in their malign toolbox in the state of georgia, from lying to intimidation and everything in between. starting that night with that speech from donald trump jr. remember when he made that speech georgia republicans were scrambling to prepare for a pair of runoff elections that would determine control of the senate. but we know from testimony provided to the january 6th select committee that don jr. was threatening republicans, suggesting that he and the trump folks would tank the senate

races if there was not 100% support for his father's coup plot. perhaps the threat worked. four days after the speech those two senators were calling for the resignation of georgia secretary of state, also a republican, brad raffensperger. that's when the threats started. >> my e-mail, my cell phone was doxed, and so i was getting texted all over the country, and then eventually my wife started getting texts. and hers typically came in as sexualized attacks, which were disgusting. and then some people broke into my daughter-in-law's home. and my son has passed, and she's a widow. and has two kids. and so we're very concerned about her safety also. >> doxing the -- let's not speed over this, right? so the republican secretary of state was doxed. his daughter's home was broken into. his wife had sexual threats sent to her cell phone. these efforts to intimidate

raffensperger into resigning or folding failed. so for trump's team they had to double down, right? accelerate the runaway train. so rudy giuliani's traveling clown show came to town setting its sights on georgia despite the fact that trump's loss there had already been upheld by state audit. at a legislative hearing in atlanta, one of a few such appearances, rudy giuliani made ridiculous, baseless claims about dominion voting machines switching votes. he also played a video that he said showed election workers with a suitcase of suspicious ballots to be counted late in the night. >> tape earlier in the day of ruby freeman and shaye freeman moss and one other gentleman quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around usb ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine. i mean, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they're engaged in

surreptitious illegal activity, again, that day. >> what was your mom actually handing you on that video? >> a ginger mint. >> vials of cocaine, ginger mints. so meanwhile, fellow big liar john eastman was throwing you know what at the wall, saying baloney, like the number of underaged individuals who were allowed to register in georgia, amounts allegedly up to approximately 66,000 people. no, it didn't. the real number as "the new york times" reports was quite a bit lower. about a dozen. 12 such people. so .002% of what eastman suggested. and even those appeared to be data entry glitches. john eastman was also central, though, to the fake elector plot that unfolded during this specific period. and all the while trump did what he could to help from the white house, making calls, threatening officials, imploring illegality, ultimately asking brad

raffensperger to, quote, find him 11,000 votes. trump's own chief of staff, mark meadows, even made a highly irregular trip to georgia in an attempt to insert himself into that state's signature verification process. so you can see every lever trump's team, every lever trump's government could possibly pull, every action it could conceivably take they took. they all happened right there in georgia. so as we await a potential indictment in fulton county, georgia, maybe trump should be as anxious as he appears to be. former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee our friend tim hafy is back. also joining us executive producer of showtime's "the circus," the host of the hell or highwater podcast from the recount, our dear friend john heilemann is back with us. and joining us from outside the fulton county courthouse, nbc news correspondent blayne alexander. blayne, i know you have a lot of demands on your time as did

vaughn in the last hour. so tell us if you like vaughn are still open to the possibility that something very big could happen tonight. >> absolutely. absolutely. in fact, that's what we're watching for, nicolle. i can tell you now that the clock has struck 5:00 and moved slightly past it, that gives us a better indication as to what we could possibly be in for tonight. i'll tell you, we've got teams both inside and just outside of the courthouse. the courthouse is still open at this hour. it's, what, 5:07 p.m. that is very notable. typically it closes at 5:00 on the dot. they would kick people out, the doors would be locked. but one of our producers just said that the front door's -- security told him the front doors will remain open as long as the grand jury is in session. why is that notable? because georgia law says that an indictment has to be unsealed as soon as it's handed up. that is done by being taken to a presiding judge who's sitting on the bench for him to look at and officially unseal it. in order for that process to

happen, if there are still proceedings going on, the courthouse will remain open. what that tells us, nicolle, is that we are still -- the grand jury is very likely still in session and we could be watching for some sort of decision possibly later this evening. now, i also got another piece of guidance from a source who's familiar with the proceedings. we know that right now they're still hearing witness number 5 out of 10 planned witnesses that they planned to call. that's notable because i broke here on msnbc about 2 1/2 hours ago or so they were hearing witness number 5. they're still hearing that same witness. a little more than two hours later. so that tells me a couple of things. one, whoever this witness number 5 is he or she is important, has a lot to say. there are a lot of questions coming at this person. but it also raises the questions of what could the other presumably five witnesses have to say, who are they. we do know there are two people who are still waiting. george chidi, of course you've heard that name a lot. he's the independent journalist

who was asked to come and testify. he's been kind of live-tweeting this of sorts. first he said he was coming in early ahead of his time originally assigned tomorrow. and then he said that he's sitting in the hallway, he's sitting right next to geoff duncan, the former lieutenant governor here in georgia, says he likes the guy. he said they're talking about everything but the grand jury proceedings. but the bottom line is neither of them have testified yet. we still have two witnesses along with a possible three more. so that just kind of tells us we could be in for a long night here in front of the courthouse. >> blayne, you've covered fani willis. is there anything about her moving duncan and the independent journalist to today from tomorrow that tells you that she's eager to sort of accelerate her own timetable, or are you just reading this into sort of grand jury management? >> you know, i think it shows, one, yes, they are trying to accelerate this. all along we kind of thought that a case of this magnitude,

and kind of been given the guidance that a case of this magnitude would take two days to present. and certainly that was something that was really kind of underscored over the weekend when we heard that a couple of the witnesses were scheduled to come tuesday. the fact that they were called, really almost spur of the moment and hey, you know what, we know we told you tuesday, drop what you're doing, come down here now and testify, shows that for whatever reason it appears they're trying to wrap all of this up, button this up in a single day. now, whether they can do that remains to be seen. of course there are a number of variables. the number of questions that are asked. what the presentation looks like, how the testimony goes. but just the fact that they moved it up really does signal to me they're trying to wrap this up in a single day. >> blayne, there's been no secret on the part of fani willis that security was top of mind for her and being prepared for any response or reaction in atlanta was something that she thought about well ahead of today and this week. what does it feel like there where you're standing?

>> well, security is very tight. absolutely. i mean, nicolle, you know i've spent the better part of 2 1/2 years reporting from in front of this courthouse. we've ennever seen it the way it looks today and has looked over the past couple of days. the street behind me, this is prior street. this is kind of the main entrance here to the fulton county courthouse. so anybody who has matters before the court typically can walk right up those courthouse steps and go inside. and cars are typically passing through this very busy street. both sides of the street are blocked. cars can't come in or out. we have sheriff's vehicles on both sides with flashing lights. and then we have barricades, as you can see. you've seen on the shots all week. barricades in front of the courthouse. so security is absolutely tight. and that's what we can see. the other part of this is what we can't see. we know that there were plans to have plainclothes officers kind of sprinkled in out here among security. we know that the sheriff said that they kind of chased down every single threat that they get. he said they run those down, run those down to the ground, and

see if there are viable threats there or just see how real those are. so there's a lot that's happening both very present in front of us and also behind the scenes to kind of make sure that security is where it needs to be, nicolle. >> blayne, i know there are a lot of demands on your time. you said you've been standing in front of that courthouse for 2 1/2 years. i got a little -- i mean, it's a powerful moment, right? you've been covering this story since the earliest days of trump's efforts to overturn his defeat there, and we're grateful to get to talk to you today. please just wave your arms or send up a flare if anything develops in the next 55 minutes, and we'll get you right back on the air. thank you so much for starting us off, my friend. >> absolutely. you got it. absolutely. >> tim hafy, so much of what we know about the plot in georgia we know from trump's own voice. on the call with brad raffensperger. and i rarely, john heilemann, can attest to this, i rarely give our viewers homework. but i remember i listened to it, saying i can't believe i'm telling you this, but please

listen to the whole thing. i mean, it is trump's hands on the steering wheel of trying to cheat his way into the presidency, trying to deny the will of georgia voters. and to your point the first time we got to talk to you, tim, all that's come out since has made the evidence against trump stronger, has made it more clear how concerted the effort was, how wide it was and how deep it was. what is your sense in terms of what fani willis has developed and what may be imminent in georgia? >> look, i think what fani willis has developed is much what we laid out, nicolle, in our report. what we laid out in our hearings. some of it's included in the special counsel's indictment. the facts here have been relatively plain for a while. and they are shocking. you're exactly right. the call itself, the january 2nd call between the former president and secretary

raffensperger just on its face, if you listen to it, is shocking. it's the president of the united states imploring a state official to just find 11,000-some votes. but when you plug that recording in to the context of events that we developed, that special counsel developed, that fani willis is now developing, after he had been told repeatedly that those specific claims that he cites to raffensperger are meritless, when raffensperger himself refutes them, when he'd been told before the january 2nd call that the vice president has no authority to do anything but accept the votes that had already been certified by the secretary of state in georgia, it's particularly egregious. it's really important because it is perhaps the most dramatic manifestation of this multipart plan to disrupt the joint session and prevent the transfer of power. >> tim, so much of what the select committee effectively developed for the public was

evidence of the known falsity. i think that's a term maybe we learned from the dominion case. but this idea they knew there weren't dead people that voted. there's a mark meadows text that we've learned about where he's writing to eric hershman, my son found 12 obituaries and six other possibles depending on the voter role accuracy. hershman writes, "that sounds more like it. maybe he can help rudy giuliani write the other 10,000." meadows in what i find a haunting lol. we're talking about ending democracy, ending the peaceful transfer of power and he says lol about the delta between how many dead people voted and how many rudy was saying. i mean, they knew it was all b.s. and the lives that were destroyed and altered forever will never be the same. the trauma that shaye moss and ruby freeman experienced was a story that the committee told. but there were many people that will never want to be election workers, will never want to volunteer as poll workers, and a lot of that happened in georgia.

so what are your thoughts today? >> yeah, absolutely. look, this has real consequences, right? these kinds of allegations are not simply rhetorical. they're not political speech. they have really concrete consequences. people breaking into private homes in georgia is exactly the sort of outgrowth of the rhetoric that the president and others, his lawyers in particular, used in georgia. so shaye moss, ruby freeman, al schmidt in philadelphia, secretary raffensperger, jocelyn benson in michigan, there's so many people who literally had people outside their house or e-mailing, texting them incredibly vile hateful messages, threatening messages. right? this is awful enough that we're talking about a political attempt to subvert the joint session. but jack smith and fani willis are going to develop the real

human cost of this. real people whose safety was threatened. and frankly it continues to be an issue as long as the president says if you come after me i'm coming after you. people take that seriously, nicolle. that's why as glenn kirschner was saying in your previous segment, this will be taken really seriously by any of the judges before whom these cases are pending. >> do you think, tim heaphy, that jeffrey clark who sort of orchestrated the coup atop doj and mark meadows who traveled down to georgia to plot overturning trump's defeat, do you think they'll be charged by fani willis today or tomorrow? >> i think they have exposure. absolutely. as our report indicated, i think arguably both jeff clark and mark meadows and a number of others participated participated very directly in the plot to overturn the georgia election and others. mark meadows, as you said, went to a recount place -- we actually had testimony that he wanted to bring challenge coins,

right? these trinkets that people give out as sort of a white house swag. and it was cassidy hutchinson and some of his young staff that said that may be inappropriate. he was very directly manifesting intent to see this effort succeed. jeff clark, he authors that crazy letter that he wants to send to the georgia legislature saying factually there are serious concerns about the election when doj had already exhausted all investigations of alleged voter fraud in georgia and putting forth this legal theory that the state legislature can disregard the popular vote. again, baseless. it didn't get sense because sober smart people in the justice department said no. so absolutely. clark, meadows, giuliani, eastman, the list goes on of people whose conduct manifested an attempt to see this plot succeed. >> john heilemann, so much of what the committee -- first of all, welcome back.

it is very nice to see you, my friend. >> hi, nicolle. >> i want to hear your thoughts about where we are right now. so much of what we know about georgia we learned in trump's own voice and then we learned from the extraordinary work of the select committee. but it appears that fani willis has more. what are you waiting for? what are you looking for? >> well, first it's great to be back and i want to bring my own special brand of expertise to this discussion. i'm an expert on none and the gd i joke of course but i also do point out that it kind of points out the degree to which people like rudy giuliani were willing to say the most outlandish, the most outrageous things, impugning not only making stuff

up that was obviously on its face ridiculous, i mean on its face ridiculous but also impugning the character of these election workers as you were alluding to before, which is what makes this particular case, i mean, all of trump's ostensible crimes, alleged crimes have been pretty vial. but this one is in a special category. and i think what -- to the question you were directly asking is that is kind of what has happened over the course of these last now 2 1/2 years. it's hard to remember the fact that we learned about this phone call on january 3rd of couple days before january 6th. the newspaper, all that story broke the weekend right after new year's. and it was on that precipice of january 6th that i think for a lot of us who had seen a lot of strange goings-on and covering all of what was happening between election day and january 6th, all the things that trump and his henchmen were trying to do to overturn the election, it was that moment where i think

everyone, even the most cynical, hard-bitten reporters and people who were the most furious anti-trumpites on the left, everyone kind of took a gasp when you heard trump's voice saying what he said. and then what has happened since then, the turns of events that followed from that, losing the two senate seats on january 5th in georgia and then coming to january 6th and everything that's unfolded ever since then, in a lot of ways this case has been the one that most of us have said, man, if this isn't illegal nothing is illegal. it can't be legal to do what donald trump did, in his own words in georgia. and fani willis has built this care, a case on the prima facie basis of it seemed the most winnable of all these cases, the most obvious open and shut case of all the cases trump is facing. and she has made it all the more formidable, all the more compelling. and we can talk some about what the politics of this are because let's not forget georgia, one of maybe only five real battleground states in this

coming election where donald trump -- every trial is going to be in front of the voters who rejected him in 2020, who rejected republican senate candidates in 2020, who has to win georgia in order to become president again in 2024, and those same voters, those moderate suburban cobb county former republicans, current republican, wannabe normal republican voters who say i've had enough of donald trump, brian kemp's great, no donald trump, are those people watching this trial play out going to be more likely to come back to the republican party if donald trump's at the top of it, having seen the way this evidence is going to unfold? i don't think so. some republicans who want to win in 2024 should probably think of that. >> well, it's such an interesting political analysis because georgia republicans had a chance to go with someone on the coup side of the trump question, right? i mean, raffensperger and kemp both had republican challengers, and they lost. so at least georgia republicans said i'll stick with republicans but the ones who stood up to

trump, not these guys. i thought you were going somewhere else with your expertise. i thought you were going to pull out all the challenge coins that you've collected over the years. >> oh, well, your friend mark mckinnon, the ultimate challenge coin hoarder in america, gives them out at every opportunity. when i heard about the challenge coins i thought, man, talk about another turn into never neverland. but i mean, again, that point, these people were lol-ing. i agree with you. one of the most chilling things in any of this e-mail evidence is that lol. chilling and appalling but really chilling on some level that the white house chief of staff, second most powerful person in the country, is lol-ing over an attempt to overturn an american election. >> and his knowledge that it was all b.s. from go. we need both of you to stick around a whole lot longer. we have much more coming out of atlanta at this hour as fulton county district attorney fani willis continues to present her case to the grand jury against donald trump and his allies.

"deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. you better not go anywhere today. k break. you better not go anywhere today. ♪ things are looking u♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

(ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

nice footwork. whose resumes on indeed matman, you're lucky,ia. watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! that's what i'm talking about. [ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network.

well, i had to read both the e-mail and the attached letter twice to make sure i really understood what he was proposing because it was so extreme to me i had a hard time getting my head around it initially. so i responded to that. and for the department to insert itself into the political process this way i think would have had grave consequences for the country. it may very well have spiraled us into a constitutional crisis. and i wanted to make sure that he understood the gravity of the situation because he didn't seem to really appreciate it.

>> we're back with tim heaphy and john heilemann. tim, this is some of what you and i were talking about about the plot atop doj. of course he's talking about someone who trump would go on for a few hours at least to make the attorney general of the united states of america. just take me inside this specific piece of what was under scrutiny in georgia, what was very much about trump's efforts to use doj to overturn his defeat in georgia. >> yeah, nicolle, you have to go all the way back to literally the first week of november when attorney general barr issued a memo to all u.s. attorneys and all fbi field offices essentially authorizing them to conduct investigations of sufficiently specific and credible allegations of voter fraud. there had been talk leading up to the election of the possibility of fraud. so attorney general barr essentially launched everyone around the country to look into these allegations.

and they did that in georgia. there was this bullshit allegation of suitcases of ballots in georgia. there were all these allegations of dead people voting. so the fbi in georgia and the u.s. attorney's office in georgia looked into this. nonetheless, the president kept repeating those allegations. and rich donoghue, who you just put on the screen, who testified in our hearings, told him directly multiple times, sir, those georgia allegations are baseless. so when the president proposes jeff clark to be attorney general to write a letter to the georgia legislature saying hey, there's these credible allegations of voter fraud, it is clearly against the facts and against the consistent information he had gotten from rich donoghue and others inside of the justice department. in other words, they looked at this and they rebutted it and debunked it. so the president's attempt to change leadership at the department of justice flies in the face of it. he didn't like what he was

hearing from rich donoghue and jeffrey rosen, who were telling him the truth, just like bill barr had. he wanted -- he was forum shopping. he wanted someone who was going to take action to politicize the department of justice without factual foundation. >> you know, there's something, tim heaphy, as you're talking that i think is just a pause to hit here. he's not forum shopping among liberal democrats, right? like bill barr, who happily put his finger on the scales of justice when it came to the cases involving trump allies mike flynn and paul manafort and others, bill barr does something if not of legal questionability, certainly of ethical and not standard practice, he uses doj to investigate baseless claims of voter fraud. now, i know there's an argument that some members on the committee have made that it's a good thing because it's more evidence that trump knew they were all baseless. but it doesn't slow trump down. and i wonder if you could just speak to this sort of sliding of

our frame of reference. i mean, these are -- these are the people that stayed with trump to the end when bill barr couldn't and wouldn't, telling trump as you just said it was all bullshit. >> yes. exactly. look, rich donoghue, there is no person who we met over the course of our investigation who was more credible than that guy. i mean, he was a trump appointee. he was u.s. attorney in brooklyn. he moved to washington to be the principal deputy attorney general and then becomes the dag at the end after attorney general barr's resignation. he is a loyal trump supporter. everyone, nicolle, every witness in this case is in that category. bill barr, as you said, he bent over backwards to try to discredit the russia investigation, was shoulder to shoulder with president trump through his immigration policy, for so much of his policy agenda. yet the president, despite that

loyalty from bill barr, from rich donoghue, continues to go down the line to the next guy who might do something unethical. they're all republicans. that is to whom he steps in this misguided attempt to find someone who's going to take unlawful action. and thankfully, there were enough people in the department of justice -- and look, i'm biased. i grew up as a lawyer in the department of justice. i have immense respect for the men and women who work there, regardless of administration, republican or democrat. they're people generally of integrity. and they said no, thankfully. and brad raffensperger said no. pence said no. so there are a lot of people that said no. but to be clear, they were all conservative republicans who supported the president on everything else on matters of policy. >> and john heilemann, it's just important as we get to the criminal prosecution piece to understand that all these cases have been assembled using testimony not just from registered republicans, not from people who used to work for the

old normal republicans, but from trump republicans. that is who has told the story of trump's attempt to overturn his defeat in 2020. >> well, i'd say something more than that, nicolle. it's not just trump republicans. it's the last trump republicans standing in the white house after all of the other ones who had come in at the beginning of the term thinking okay, i'm going to be a guardrail here to try to constrain trump, i don't necessarily believe him, i think he might be dangerous, we saw chiefs of staff come in, at least make that claim theerksz are the people who were the hangers-on. these are the people who were there at the very end, who stuck with trump literally until -- in many cases up until this day of january 6th, the days leading up to it, and in some cases beyond. so i don't want to say they're -- i wouldn't -- i'll refrain from saying they're the bottom of the barrel, but they were -- you know what it's like at the end of an administration, any administration, even a normal administration. at the very end people who are hanging on are not necessarily

the cream of the crop. they're not necessarily the best of them. these are the people who are the biggest of all trump loyalists, the most loyal of the loyalists, the most sycophantic of the sycophants, the most toadyish of the toadiers. and yet those people are the ones who in the end, if trump ends up getting convicted in many of these cases but particularly in this one and in the january 6th case, in the end if he's convicted in these cases it is going to be those people who could be -- were believable on almost nothing else. everything else they bent over backwards to try to help trump. but this was too far. and when dragged into court, put in front of a grand jury, they had to come out and tell the truth. it's hard to think of a more credible witness in this case than some of these people who lied for trump's, you know -- wheedled, cajoled for trump, did everything, broke norms, broke rules, broke ethics and now they're in there going yeah, i did a lot of bad stuff for trump but he's guilty here. >> it's just remarkable. all right.

i need both of you to stick around a little bit longer. i know that wasn't the plan. but there's so much happening and we need both of you. i also want to tell our viewers we are getting some new clues, i'll call them tea leaves. we have some new reporting from judge mcburney in atlanta in that courthouse about what we can all expect to happen tonight. we'll have that for you with our colleague vaughn hillyard after a very, very short break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the lyte™. caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects.

caplyta can help you let in the lyte™. ask your doctor about caplyta find savings and support at caplyta.com. (ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen.

the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado.

alex! mateo, hey how's business? great. you know that loan has really worked wonders. that's what u.s. bank is for. and you're growing in california? -yup, socal, norcal... -monterey? -all day. -a branch in ventura? that's for sure-ah. atms in fresno? fres-yes. encinitas? yes, indeed-us. anaheim? big time. more guacamole? i'm on a roll-ay. how about you? i'm just visiting. u.s. bank. ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with retail banking in california by j.d. power. we are in this together, and

since we have been on the air we have received more tea leaves to be read from the fulton county courthouse. our colleague nbc's vaughn hillyard is back with us to make sense of them. vaughn, tell us what we're hearing from the judge. >> right. the tea leaves we're waiting to see is whether charges would come down against donald trump and his allies here tonight. and right now i can tell you the courtroom door, as you can see behind us, it is still open. it was supposed to close at 5:00 p.m. but judge mcburney, who is overseeing the case here this week, had said that he's going to keep the doors open as long as district attorney fani willis asked him to. and to our understanding that grand jury is still convening. we know that geoff duncan and george chidi, two of the witnesses who were set to testify just a bit ago according to chidi on his social media account suggested that they are both sitting there waiting to go in and testify before jury. so far five of the ten witnesses we know of have testified so far today. the question here is for mcburney is very much what is willis's timeline.

i just want to read you a couple direct quotes sent from our producer gary grumbach who is actually inside that room noit. he just texted us mcburney told the reporters in that room, quote, you didn't go get dinner, you should have gotten dinner, and then he said i guess you'll have to wait and see and if you don't wait you don't see. those were the quotes from the judge inside of that room here. we have uber eats, chick-fil-a here we are waiting. but the big question for everybody on this block, particularly, is when this is going to get done because beyonce, we should note, just two blocks from here, her concert just down the road at the stadium begins in just over two hours from now, nicolle. >> it's a big night in atlanta, georgia. i mean, it feels like the center of the universe. most days but especially today. let me ask you a question about the judge. is it your sense that he knows what's going to happen tonight or is it your sense that he's there in service of d.a. fani willis saying i'm here if she

hands me something that i have to read out tonight? >> the sense is that it had been suggested to him that he had had no intention of leaving promptly. because before 5:00 p.m. struck that is when he had suggested that, you know, folks should maybe go and think about dinner. so therefore he had an inclination, a reason to believe that this would go on for hours or else -- from everything that is known about judge mcburney, he is quite straightforward and direct and usually doesn't lead people astray here. and so clearly a directive had been given to him that they intended to at least see this process through quite a bit. again, i think it's important to remind folks that two of the witnesses we mentioned, chidi and geoff duncan, the former lieutenant governor, they had initially been told to come tomorrow but they were called last minute this afternoon and said please come here to the heart of atlanta in the courthouse. they're in there. to the best of our knowledge they're still waiting to go testify. of course we'll keep you posted as soon as we know more. >> and just to make sure i have the math right, blayne, our colleague blayne alexander

reported at the top of this hour that witness 5 is still in there. and we know chidi and duncan, that gets us to seven. is it your understanding that there are three more in addition that the grand jury would hear from before they're done? >> that's our understanding. and to be truthful with you, nicolle, we don't have the reporting as to exactly who those three individuals are. this goes back to the heart of the grand jury proceedings are secret. district attorney fani willis has talked publicly here and there. but she has been very secretive about the plans for her presentation here to the grand jury. that is what is taking place now. the indictment or the charges that she intends to be filed, they have already been mapped out and planned. they are on paper here. and now this is part of -- the testifying of these witnesses, who have already testified to the special grand jury last year, they are now coming back as sort of the closing act to really help her make her last case to these new jurors who are part of this grand jury that

this case is worth bringing against potentially donald trump and those more than potentially dozen allies. >> and because she's beyonce, of course she's half a mile away, what a remarkable moment in a remarkable period in this story. please continue to sort of wave your arms and come back. before you leave, though, i want to bring tim heaphy in as sort of our closest stand-in for how a prosecutor would be thinking and presenting to a grand jury in these final phases, these final moments or hours of a case. what is your sense of how long you would keep a grand jury, and what is the calculation there? can you make them tired and make them mad? do you go with where the momentum is? could you see her going through five more witnesses tonight? >> it all depends on them, nicolle. i've been in this situation, and you have to be responsive to the grand jurors. these are regular people. this is the great thing about american democracy, right? these are regular people that go to work, that have families, and

sometimes things happen that you don't expect, somebody's child gets sick or someone starts to feel unwell. you have to adjust on the fly. if they didn't go get dinner when they were given an opportunity to, that suggests to me that they don't necessarily envision a long night and may want to go home at a certain point and come back tomorrow. and unless there's a court-imposed deadline, a statute of limitations or some legal reason to issue an indictment or do anything by a certain time, my guess is that the d.a. will be very responsive to the individual needs of these grand jurors. it's impossible to game this out. it is a system that is populated by real people who have real needs and real issues that arise, and the best-laid plans sometimes have to be adjusted according to circumstance. >> john heilemann, we'll give you the last word. i think what vaughn and tim

heaphy have infused this conversation with is once again ordinary people like shaye moss, like ruby freeman, in this case like grand jurors asked to do extraordinary things at a moment that feels so fraught just to sit in and cover. >> yeah. for sure. and look, the stakes -- this is what donald trump obviously did to us, nicolle, and i say to us in a kind of thoughtful -- in an intentional way. he turned -- he's turned a lot of viewers into constitutional -- amateur constitutional experts. some cable hosts too. and cable guests have learned a lot about the way our country is supposed to work and how it actually works over the course of the last four years and the difference between those two things, about what is governed by law and what is governed by just norms and how what happens when you get a president who doesn't really care about norms and doesn't really care about precedent, doesn't really have any shame in what they're willing to do and how far they can actually push the limits of

democracy that is built both on law and also on norms and precedents and in morality and common decency and self-respect and the belief that there would be some political cost if you behaved in certain ways. we've learned all these things. we've also learned about all these heroic figures, the heroic figures who worked on elections in places like georgia, in places like pennsylvania, in places like michigan, in places like wisconsin, places where they have been harassed, where they've been threatened-w they've been doxed, with where they've been treated -- they've gone out to do the most honorable decent thing they can possibly do, which is try to make american elections work right and what they've gotten for their trouble is an angry online and sometimes offline mob baying for their heads and a guy who used to be called america's mayor talking about how they were passing vials of cocaine around when in fact they were passing around ginger mints and some of these people have had their lives ruined, transformed for the worse for having stood up for american democracy.

and now these people who are on this grand jury are being asked to do a similar thing. i mean, i will say that i feel -- if you think about the actions of a lot 69 people who made up the upper echelons of the trump administration and the way the republican establishment bowed and scraped before this man, the way they capitulated to him, the way that they have not still in a lot of ways, not turned away from him, when you look at all of that, thinking about there was a famous harvard law professor not long ago who said he'd rather have harvard law school governed by random names pulled out of the harvard directory, the janitors and the people who run the buildings and the plants, than by these tenured professors, that having a bunch of ordinary people running harvard law school would be better than ez that people that were actually running it. this is a harvard law professor that said this. i think about that now. you think about what the washington political establishment especially on the republican side let donald trump do and continues to let him do as he runs for president again. i am so glad that the actual

fate of this man in terms of his criminal culpability rests in the hands of a bunch of ordinary georgians who are not members of some political class and are not captive to donald trump but are in there just trying to do what they've been doing all along, which is to make this -- to prove to a lot of us, some of us who've been thrown into doubt about this in the last four years, that american democracy still works and that the legal system still works and that there is such a thing as accountability. i have a lot of faith in those people in that grand jury pool right now and i have a lot of faith in the justice system to deliver donald trump what he deserves. >> it's a really powerful and almost tragic sort of thing to end on, right? that because of the collapse of one of the country's two political parties to say up is up and down is down and good is good, bad is bad, this is where we are. and as you're saying, john, they're our best hope. to vaughn hillyard, who had to run off and do more reporting, to tim heaphy and to john heilemann, thank you so much for being part of our coverage on this truly extraordinary day. we'll continue to keep an eye on that courthouse in atlanta and

with beyonce down the block. it's fair to say that it's definitely the center of the universe today. but ahead for us, switching gears, white house democrats are preparing a report on the millions, possibly billions of dollars the trump made off foreign governments. congressman eric swalwell will be our guest for that conversation. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. sation after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

make your next move a dream come true with the pods big move sweepstakes. win a free local or long-distance move. plus ultra-premium viking appliances and up to $7,500 cash. enter today for your chance to win. visit pods dot com.

(ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon enter today for your chance to win. to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur.

tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley.

during the trump administration we saw the development of a completely new public philosophy, which is government is not an instrument of the common good and the public interest, government is an interest for private self-enrichment for the guy who gets in, for his family, for his private businesses. i have been, you know, begging my colleague, chairman comber, for us to do a serious analysis of what the laws should be about money making -- >> and you'd take part in a serious investigation? >> yes, of course we would. and we're going to release a report about all of the foreign government emoluments, millions of dollars we can document that donald trump pocketed at the hotels, at the golf courses, through business deals when he was president and that his family got. >> congressman jamie raskin, announcing that democrats are working on a report detailing the millions, potentially billions of dollars that the disgraced ex-president and his family pocketed from foreign governments while he was in the

white house. of which it seems we're only learning the tip of the iceberg. joining our coverage democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. this has been sort of an open secret. i think former white house chief of staff john kelly has talked about jared's focus on foreign governments. i think jared kushner has made no secret of getting billions g. and i come to you from livermore, california at a construction trailer for a homeless housing project, to add to the collection of interesting places where you've had me on. but i'm glad you want to talk as you recall, what they were referring to was actually a considered issue for

impeachment for donald trump. we believe there was the goods on him for cashing in on the presidency with his coattails in the business deal. his daughter was working at the white house. this is where we are with these guys and what they do, they accuse us, present biden, of exactly what they were doing because if we were benefiting and monetizing our time at the white house, of course the democrats are doing that but they are projecting their corruption onto us, so the 3-d approach to discredit them from the beginning so that we can have a conversation about president biden and his family until you to be honest with what happened with donald trump and his. always, always, delivery.

what we delivered while we were the majority and when we go back to the majority, what we deliver. >> the danger seems to be allowing them to make an equivalency. the truth is that hunter biden has been under investigation by trump appointed attorney, u.s. attorney for five years. no one has ever criminally investigated the exploitation or the pay to play of the trump family. >> that's right, nicole. they are losing their minds that merrick garland has given us exactly what they asked for. asked for, a couple months back, a special counsel in the hunter biden investigation they wanted that special counsel to be donald trump aplenty and

merrick garland has done exactly that. there is no equivalent here. what is alleged between hunter biden and his father conversations between hunter biden and his father when joe biden was not president and like any father would, he's talking to his son asking how his fishing is going and asking him things that a father would talk to a son about and here you have a son-in-law, daughter, cashing in on their own father being in the white house. there is no equivalent and that's why it's so important on 90 accepting that there is legitimacy towards this. >> this is a conversation when we are not juggling breaking news. it super, super important. thank you so much for coming by to start the conversation today. another break for us. we will be right back.

and we could see ewhen theye with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzhiemer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us.

i'm so happy to be back with you and i want to thank you for letting us into your home today during these extraordinary times. the beat