up to $100 off nfl sunday ticket from youtube. sign up for xfinity rewards now. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i made a commitment to the american people, but most importantly, the citizens of fulton county that we were going to be making some big decisions

regarding the election investigation, and that i would do that before september 1st of 2023. and i'm going to hold true to that commitment. working for 2 1/2 years, we're ready to go. >> that was fulton county d.a. fani willis last month, and tonight, there are indications that the fourth indictment of donald trump may be imminent. this time for election interference in georgia. also tonight, judge tanya chutkan warned trump against making inflammatory statements, which he proceeded to ignore, so what if anything is going to be done about it? >> and despite all of that, trump still appears to be the republican party's inevitable nominee. his dominance over the rest of the republican field was on full displace this weekend in iowa. >> we begin tonight with fulton county, georgia, where donald trump could face a fourth indictment, that's four, possibly any moment now. i'm jason johnson in for joy reid. fulton county district attorney fani willis appears poised to issue a charging decision on

donald trump's alleged efforts to subvert election results. at this hour, a grand jury in atlanta is still hearing evidence, and the presiding judge's courtroom remains open. it's a sign that the grand jury meeting today is trying to power through the remaining testimony ahead of a vote and potential hand out of indictments tonight. many signs pointed to willis moving faster than initially expected. key witnesses in the probe were spotted at the fulton county courthouse, including two former democratic state legislatures as well as journalist george chidi who was subpoenaed for witnessing a meeting at the georgia state capitol where trump supporters signed documents falsely claiming trump won the election. chidi told nbc news he was called to appear before the grand jury today after previously told he didn't have to show up until tomorrow. he also posted on social media, quote, change of plans. going to court today. they're moving faster than they thought. same goes for former lieutenant governor geoff duncan who according to the atlanta journal constitution also met with grand

jurors today. ahead of schedule. which of course, brings us to the trump of it all, trump is doing what he always does, lashing out at his perceived enemies by putting out all cap screeds. that includes a tirade against geoff duncan who is trump critic and trying to intimidate him by saying the former lieutenant governor of georgia shouldn't testify. today, trump attacked d.a. willis, also went after tanya chutkan, the judge in the january 6th case, calling her highly partisan and very biased and unfair. look, just days ago, judge chutkan warned trump about making inflammatory statements that can intimidate witnesses in that trial. it's a warning trump ignored, shocker, because intimidating judges and witnesses is, you know, the kind of thing that will put you and i in jail, is something he's been doing for years. he started back in 2016 when he

attacked judge curiel, an indiana native, saying he couldn't act as an impartial judge of trump because he was a mexican american. then he attacked alvin bragg, the first prosecutor to bring charges against a current or former president. let's begin with blayne alexander who is outside the courthouse in atlanta. thanks for joining us tonight on "the reidout." what is the mood down there, and what is sort of the timeline we're seeing? last we checked in, they're at maybe the seventh witness testimony and there may be up to ten. >> reporter: yeah, well, jason, the mood is anxiously waiting. anxiously waiting and it's hot outside. watching to see what happens. but the timeline to get to the heart of your question really is that we are just kind of waiting to see what happens. i just spoke to a source who has direct knowledge of these proceedings and i understand from this source that they are currently hearing from witness number seven. that witness number six wrapped

up, and that witness number seven is now on the stand, has been on the stand since around 6:30 or so. i also have guidance from the source that the d.a.'s office is very much trying to wrap up these proceedings this evening. wrap up tonight, but of course, all of that timing remains fluid. so as we continue to watch and wait and see, there are a couple things we're looking at. we know that the courthouse is still open. we're still able to come and go from the courthouse. that's notable. typically here in fulton county, the courthouse closes at 5:00 on the dot. but the fact it's still open, security guards tell our team as long as the grand jury is in session, the doors will remain unlocked. so certainly, that is a very strong indication, again, that they're trying to muscle through this, get what they need to get through, and likely to get to some sort of resolution tonight. >> this is a big question i have because it's been pervading the air throughout this entire process, certainly in the state of georgia. what is the security like on the ground? are there guards anywhere? has brian kemp called in the national guard?

if an indictment comes down tonight, are there real concerns and is there sort of heightened security in the area? >> security around the courthouse is very tight. i think that's one of the things fani willis tried to put into place months ago. hey, these are the dates where the indictment is likely going to be handed up. make sure you have your security in order. we have seen this over the past few weeks, over the time bracket she set out. security right now is heavier than i have probably ever seen, and i have reported in front of this courthouse for the better part of two years. so the fact that boat sides of the main street that runs in front of the courthouse is blocked off, the fact that there are barricades down the front of the courthouse, and all around the courthouse, no parking around the courthouse. typically, we see vehicles able to park. they're also making provisions by the georgia state capitol. when we spoke to the sheriff, he made it clear, there are threats. there are threats that come to fani willis. she's not shied away from talking about that. there arethets that come to the sheriff himself, and they chase each one down.

in addition to the security that we do see, there's a lot of security we don't see. we know there are plain clothes officers that are mixed among us here in this kind of judicial complex in downtown atlanta. we know they are of course checking on threats and fani willis has increased security as well, jason. >> thank you, blayne alexander. thank you so much for setting the scene and setting us up for tonight. let's bring in greg bluesteen, and joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney, and professor at the university of alabama law, and gwen fleming, former district attorney of dekalb county, georgia. greg, i'll start with you. this is major. ewoo were just talking to blayne alexander about security on the ground. what is sort of the political mood right now in metro atlanta? you know, are there sort of talking points that the local republican party has been handing out to state legislators and members? are police sort of more concerned? what is the sort of feeling on

the ground in the city? >> jason, it's really tense. i would say republicans want to talk about anything but this. you're not hearing governor brian kemp, not hearing other republican state officials talk about these potential indictments because they would rather talk about anything but this. they would rather talk about how this is in their view a politicized prosecution and really steer clear from it. a lot of these senior republicans here in georgia are no fans of donald trump. the governor brian kemp, geoff duncan, secretary of state brad raffensperger are targets of his bullying campaign, his pressure campaign to overturn the georgia election in 2020. >> joyce, this is the case that i think is the most practical and probably one of the easiest for people to understand. just sort of give our audience a breakdown here. what are we looking at with this sort of georgia prosecution? what are the witnesses doing now, where is this in the process? this is just they finish with the witnesses, everybody takes a quick break, and then they vote?

is it they could send the grand jury home to sleep it off tonight and then vote tomorrow? where are we sort of it in the process? >> you know, jason, a lot of it is in the hands of the grand jurors because even after the presentation of evidence by the d.a. is complete, it will be up to them to vote. they will be able to take time to talk things over if they decide they need to do that. they can ask the d.a. for more evidence or for more information about some of the charges if they feel like they don't have enough. the standard of proof is very low for an indictment. it's probable cause. that's much lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the standard for conviction at trial. it means there's a reason to believe a crime was committed and the people charged with it were in fact the people who committed. it's not the all encompassing decision we ask trial juries to make. many times a grand jury will vote fairly quickly after they

hear the evidence, but there are no guaranteed in that regard, and this grand jury might decide for any number of reasons ranging from the mundane like someone needs to go home and tend to a child or fix a meal, to something complicated, like they do want more time before they vote on this most serious of indictments. >> gwen, you are a former prosecutor down there, you know the sort of legal system in georgia better than most. when you look at a case like this, and you look at what fani willis has been doing, can know this may sound simplistic, but how big a squad are we talking about? is this fani willis with just a couple assistants or sort of the entire legal apparatus of the state and the county involved in this? because as she mentioned, this has been a 2-year process. that's a lot of resources for a state to be involved in for something that the entire sort of national zeitgeist rests upon. how wig is the group of people working on this case that may finally get an indictment

tonight? >> well, i actually think it's relatively small, even though the fulton county district attorney's office is the largest prosecutor's office in the state. at least it was when i was the elected d.a. in neighboring dekalb county. but i think out of protection for her staff, out of the desire to protect the integrity of the case, it's a small group. we know that john floyd, one of the renowned rico experts on as it relates to georgia law as part of her team, she also has a gentleman, mike carlson, who with his father wrote the book on georgia evidence. so i think she's been very deliberate about who she is selecting to be a part of this effort. and it demonstrates to me that she's got a team that really is comprised of the best prosecutors within the state, evaluating these facts and the law. >> let's talk a little bit about

rico charges in the state of georgia. racketeering, influence, and corruption organizations act, it was founded in 1970, but apparently, georgia's rico laws are a bit broader than usual. take us through what rico is like in this particular state and how it may differ as far as the kinds of charges trump could be indicted on. >> i'll let joyce speak to the federal rico statute, but the georgia statute is one of the broadest in the country. in that it lists about 43 different predicate crimes or the types of acts that would make up this pattern of racketeering activity that would be vioilative of the statute. for this case, it includes things like false statements, influencing witnesses, possibly computer trespass, so again, we won't know for sure or how broad the rico indictment might be unless and until we actually see

the physical indictment document itself. but one thing to recognize is georgia's rico statute does not include crimes under the election code, title 21. so things like conspiracy to commit election fraud or solicitation or violation of an oath of office or interference with elections. those and other crimes that are not listed in the rico statute could be included separately in an indictment. i think it's also important to note that forgery is one of the predicate acts under rico, and so potentially if d.a. fani willis is looking to include the fake electors scheme, that could also be brought under the rico umbrella. >> yes, i'm looking here, forgery, false statements, computer trespassing, i'm not sure what that means unless you go into best buy and take something. joyce, if you could, just for specificity's sake, what is the

difference, how is the federal rico statute a bit more strict? what are some things that wouldn't be included in a federal rico statute so we can understand sort of the wider range that's happening here in georgia potentially? >> sure, so gwen is nice to defer to me on this one. we actually worked together for almost the entire eight years of the obama administration. and she knows as well as i do in this regard that georgia's law is actually more prosecutor friendly than the federal law would be. the main reason that that's the case is because under federal law, you have to prove up something called an enterprise, and that can be complicated because rico is designed in essence to let prosecutors prosecute, hold accountable a group of people that are engaging in crime together on an ongoing basis. that may be a problem here in the georgia statute because in essence it's likely that fani willis will argue that trump and

some of his confederates amounted to a criminal enterprise, but as gwen makes clear, there are more what's called predicate acts, those crimes, that conduct that they're engaing together. georgia law is more expansive. for instance, forgeries that were used on some of the fake electors or to your point, computer trespass, which means unlawful access to a computer and could easily encompass the conduct we heard about in coffee county where sensitive software was accessed. lots of different possibilities for how to bring all of this conduct together. and fani willis has gone on record, she's no stranger to using this statute. she's used it aggressively, and she says she likes it because it allows her to give the jury the entire picture of the group's conduct. that's really what rico is about, instead of limiting and cabining the evidence that the government can put on in front of a jury, say to just very

strictly this is the call that the former president had with brad raffensperger, where he asked for votes, this permits prosecutors to more expansively say this is the full range of conduct, and this is why this group amounted to a rico enterprise. >> so greg, there's a couple characters, sort of witnesses and people involved in what happened in 2020 with trump attempted to influence the election that i want to pay a little attention to. you have obviously brad raffensperger who was the secretary of state, who got the phone call, hey, i need you to help me find 1100 votes. you also have former lieutenant governor geoff duncan. he's very interesting because not only is he sort of involved in the case, but he's also someone it appears as those this investigation may have derailed his political career. he decided i don't want to run for re-election. how have people who were sort of involved in this who were elected officials, how has this affected them on the ground? are there other people should

this indictment come down, they'll be stepping away from or leaning into state politics? what might the results be at the state capitol level there in atlanta? >> yeah, jason, i'm glad you brought up the former lieutenant governor because he just left the courthouse behind me after testimony before the grand jury. he wouldn't say exactly what he told the grand jurors but he did say the nation is at a pivot point, a turning point, and he said republicans should move on from donald trump. this is something we in georgia have heard for the last two plus years. he's a conservative republican, he was an ally of donald trump. around the twelt election, he had a very visible break with the then-president, and he started talking about moving forward, having republicans move beyond donald trump's rhetoric and his obsession with the 2020 election. in his view, republicans should move forward and think about the issues, the economy, public safety, other issues he thinks republicans should focus on. as you mentioned, he decided not to run for a second term as lieutenant governor, facing donald trump's wrath. he said he has no regrets about

that decision, but a trump-backed candidate in burt jones who was also a fake elector, he won georgia's number two job instead of geoff duncan. >> our panel is stigging with us. we'll be right back. this is jason johnson sitting in for joy reid on "the reidout." e♪ ♪ for colon cancer made me queasy. ♪ ♪ but now i've found a way that's right for me. ♪ ♪ feels more easy. ♪ ♪ my doc and i agreed. ♪ ♪ i pick the time. ♪ ♪ today's a good day. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way! ♪

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2020 election in georgia testified today at the fulton county courthouse. prosecutors appeared poised to seek indictments imminently. i'm back with greg, joyce, and gwen. this is amazing. gwen, i'm going to start with you. i'm going to play some sound tromdonald trump. he's talking here about the fact that, you know, under no circumstances is he going to take any sort of plea deal. i want you to sort of give us your thoughts on how that would even work in a case like this. >> is there any chance you would take a plea deal in georgia? >> no plea deals. we did nothing wrong. we don't take plea deals. it's a wise guy question. you're just a wise guy. we don't take plea deals because i did nothing wrong. it's called election interference. >> i mean, could he even work out a plea deal with fani willis at this point? because it seems unlikely. but what would even be a possibility at this point?

>> well, let's first start off with the premise that everybody is innocent until proven guilty. and obviously, everybody is entitled to counsel. so that would be a strategic decision any of the defendants would have to make with their own counsel after evaluating the facts and evidence that the d.a. would be poised to present. so it's difficult to even talk about the possibility of a plea deal when we don't yet have the indictment. we ned to see who is going to be charged. i know we have speculation, and obviously, we have some window from the foreperson of the special grand jury as to the number of people. but let's see what the charges are. and inevitably, after you get the list of charges and you see who is indicted, there may be some deals back and forth in terms of various defendants agreeing to testify on behalf of the state, i think we have seen some of that with respect to some of the folks that were part of the alleged fake electors

scam in terms of them being granted immunity. so all of those questions i think are premature. we need to see what that indictment looks like, and if there is an actual true bill from the grand jurors. so let's see what happens, whether it's tonight or possibly tomorrow. >> joyce, followling up the same idea. we don't know, obviously, gwen just said we don't know what the indictment could be, we don't know if it's coming down tonight. the idea of talking about working out a plea deal, it may be slightly premature, but here's the thing, does the fact that donald trump not just he was obviously asked a question, but does the fact he sort of so aggressively says i don't take deals, i don't take deals, do you think that indicates anything about how strongly he feels his defense is going to be able to stand up for him in this particular case? donald trump is notorious for saying i don't make deals and then he cuts deals with people. is this sort of just a political move on his behalf, verbal move on his behalf, or could it

reflect real confidence in his legal defense? >> right, so jason, i'll answer that by saying i have had plenty of defendants during my career who started out talking just like that, tough talk. didn't do anything wrong, not pleading guilty. and you would wait and they would have the opportunity to read the indictment and to see the evidence. much like gwen is suggesting. and they would realize at some point that a plea deal was in their best interests. for instance, here. the rico statute has a five-year mandatory minimum, but the sentence can be much longer than that. it depends on how the judge evaluates the case at sentencing. it's very likely we'll see some charges against the former president that will potentially carry a lesser sentence. a normal defendant, a typical defendant might reach the point where they decided it was in their best interests to plead to one of those lesser charges. donald trump, i think, is constitutionally incapable of pleading guilty because to do that, he would have to stand in

a courtroom and say under oath that he is pleading guilty because he is guilty. and for no other reason. i think it's very unlikely that we'll ever see that. >> greg, i want to play you some sound from d.a. fani willis talking about what her experiences have been like during this investigation, and then get your thoughts on sort of what the temperature is on the ground. >> all the typical racial slurs that you can imagine. they're very grotesque things. we're on family television, i don't know that i like to say all of them, but slave is one of them, i have been called the n-word more times in the past 2 1/2 years than 100 people combined. >> i used to live in cobb county, and you hear that word a lot, a lot more than people would want to believe for a city too busy to hate. greg, what does that say about the temperature on the ground? and we already talked to blayne

alexander about security, but you know, are there worries that people are running by and chanting this at the courthouse? is it just letters and emails going to d.a. willis' office? where is the racial component on the ground or is it hidden and only directed at the people directly working on the case? >> i think it's the latter. there's a reason there's such high security at the courthouse behind me, a reason why streets are closed, why courtroom staffers have been told to work virtually, because they are worried about threats and violence. and there's also a reason why even the state capitol is going to be -- the gates are going up around the state capitol. workers at the state georgia house have been told to work from home. they're taking precautions because this isn't new, but i think the intensity has ratcheted up to a new level surrounding the potential indictment of the former president. >> and gwen, i don't want to take you down an unhappy memory lane, but on the scale of sort of abusive language or hostility

that you may have received in your former job, working in dekalb county, simply being a black woman in a position of authority, sometimes makes you the target of this kind of hostility. you know, what's normal? right? what's a normal level of racial abuse that somebody receives in your position compared to what you think might be happening now according to d.a. willis? >> well, i think it's challenging for any first. but i can say that times have changed significantly, so i was the d.a. back in 2005. back then, the attacks that i got were much more subtle, i will have to admit, compared to possibly what d.a. willis is going through now. and while we had several high-profile cases, they were not ones where the entire nation was focused on what we were doing. and so i take the d.a. at her word, that she is seeing the level of vitriol that few have

experienced. and i really think that that's a sad thing, when you have men and women, but particularly those who put themselves forth for elected office, or appointed office, but especially elected officials who are out there trying to serve the citizens. she obviously won the confidence and trust of all of the voters or many of the voters in fulton county. and all she's trying to do is serve. and follow her oath. and investigate the facts to be able to arrive at a decision as to whether the law has been broken, and if she finds that there's sufficient evidence to establish that, then go ahead and prosecute to be able to hold that person or those individuals accountable. that is the epitome of service. and she is doing it at great sacrifice to herself and her family and her staff. >> thank you, greg and gwen. joyce vance is sticking with me.

up next on "the reidout," former president trump is like a child, you tell him not to do something like take government documents or pay off sex workers or threaten witnesses and he'll do it, even if a judge tells him not to. will he actually face any consequences? we'll discuss it when we get right back. this is jason johnson on "the reidout." ble with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur.

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the attack against the prosecutors and judges who are trying to hold him accountable. this has always been his standard practice. for many, including nearly the entire republican organization, this behavior has become normalized, imitated, and even praised. although for anyone not named trump, you can bet that there will be consequences, fines, or possible jail time. look, i'm old enough to remember way back to three days ago when the judge overseeing the federal trial into trump's attempts to over turn the 2020 election ended her first hearing with this warning to both parties. quote, the more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case, the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly. judge tanya chutkan added, i caution all of you and your client, therefore, to take special care in your public statements about this case. i will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the

integrity of these proceedings. look, judge chutkan invoked the well known legal precedent of keep my name out your mouth. but of course, it didn't work because trump was on the attack in less than 48 hours. yesterday, he reposted a photo of the judge and referred to her as an obama left wing activist judge, and falsely claimed that she openly admitted she's running election interference against trump. not leaving well enough alone, at 1:14 this morning, trump also posted that she was, quote, very biased and unfair. and that she obviously wanted him behind bars. back with me is joyce vance, and joining me is renato mariotti, legal affairs columnist for politico magazine. i will start with this, because this galls me. renato, you have a former president of the united states who is actively, actively, we're beyond poking the bear, right?

this is not yogi and picnic baskets. he's clubbing the bear over the head by constantly attacking the judge who is actually overseeing a case about him trying to violently overthrow the country. i'm going to ask the question i get asked by regular people all the time. why isn't he in jail already? why has he not already been thrown in jail for making these kinds of statements? he has a history of witness and judge intimidation, at least verbally. >> i actually think in this case it's because judge chutkan is very smart, savvy, experienced litigator. and she knows exactly what levers to pull to hold his feet to the fire. you read that quote a moment ago. i think that speaks volumes. what says rr saying is i'm not going to get involved in some first amendment argument with you, where you're going to get some argument that somehow i was silencing your free speech rights. what we're going to do to solve this problem is just get to

trial asap. and i think one thing we know is that donald trump's entire plan is to try to delay past the election. and she was basically letting him know and putting a shot across the bow, i have the power here, and at the end of the day, if you don't want to have a very, very speedy trial, if you want time to prepare, if you want extra time and extra accommodations, you're not going to have any nonsense. i actually thought that was a brilliant move on her part. and that's the sort of thing in my opinion that is what's going to ultimately move the lever, because i think donald trump listens to actions and power, not words. >> joyce, so basically, what we're hearing is judge chutkan, she did the reverse of what parents do. if you're not quiet, i will turn this car around. she said i will drive there faster if you keep talking. here's the thing, what would that actually look like? what is a speedy trial? because at this particular point, it's been two years since the attack.

how could she actually move this forward? would she have the power to say, you know, trump's legal team doesn't have as much time to do research? could she say i'm not going to let as many witnesses -- what would speeding it up look like if trump continues to violate the protective order? >> so her obligation is to guarantee trump's lawyers and the former president have adequate time to prepare for trial. that his due process rights are observed. but that's not a set number of days, like the 70 days called for in the speedy trial act. there's a lot of judicial discretion involved, so for instance, instead of accommodating requests for week-long vacations ahead of trial or time to attend family gatherings, she might say, sorry, we're out. we can't take those sorts of detours because we need to go ahead and get a jury struck and in the box before your client can taint the jury pool anymore. and she could insist on a fairly straight line schedule going

forward. to renato's point, she's an experienced and very smart jurist, and she will not permit herself to become agitated because donald trump notoriously likes to try to poke the tiger. i guess we say it a little differently in my house. it's a tiger, not a bear. either way, federal judges are skilled in avoiding that provocation. you know, we saw her do it with judge curiel, poking fun at his mexican heritage. she did it with judge tiger, one of the judges in california, who was involved in the immigration litigation. what we have seen from the federal judiciary is great restraint, great professionalism and an understanding this is not some sort of a fight between them and donald trump. this is about delivering the people's justice. i think we'll see her call him back into the courtroom. she may admonish him. it will be professional. it will not be personal. but judges believe in progressive discipline, if we're

talking about her and the way one might interact with a small child. and she will be very explicit with him before she goes to the next level of disciplining him in order to insure that everyone involved can get a fair trial. that means the people, you and me, as much as it does the defendant in this case. >> renato, we're going to move to another judge right now, the judge overseeing trump's hush money case has come out and said look, i'm not going to recuse myself. he has said there were accusations from trump's team, they had argued the judge's daughter had political and financial interests because at one point she worked for a firm that worked for joe biden. and he said, yeah, too bad. that's my daughter. i'm still going to work on this case. i have to ask you, i can play devil's advocate here. i mean, is there a potential problem here? is this something that trump's team could argue, again, because frankly, if there were a judge investigating joe biden, if there were a judge investigating a prominent democrat, and they

had a son or daughter or spouse that had worked for the campaign of the opposition, i think that's a reasonable question, isn't it? >> look, it's certainly something that should be raised, and we should consider let's say the appearance issues. but i will just say a couple things here. first, this would not be the child working directly for in this case joe biden. it's her law firm working for biden. but look, ultimately at the end of the day, judges make decisions regarding whether they recuse or not. and typically, courts are very deferential, looking at the issue of whether or not a judge is obligated to recuse. they very much prefer that judges use judgment, that's what i expect to be the case here. i think donald trump is going up against a judiciary that ultimately i agree with joyce's sentiment here, the judiciary is not only professional but

ultimately at the end of the day, the judiciary wants to move cases along. they have a lot of them. and a lot of criminal defendants don't like their judge. so the rules are set up to make it very difficult for criminal defendants to get rid of the judge and second guess the judge's decisions whether to recuse, and i expect that to be the case here as well. >> thank you, joyce vance and renato mariotti. thank you for joining me tonight on "the reidout." up next, former president donald trump made his grand entrance at the iowa state fair on his private plane. treating the campaign like he's already won the nomination. is it that inevitable? we'll be right back. this is jason johnson sitting in on "the reidout." more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone.

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salonpas lidocaine flex. a super thin, flexible patch with maximum otc strength lidocaine that contours to the body to relieve pain right where it hurts. and did we mention, it really, really sticks? salonpas, it's good medicine. . the state of iowa has been the birth place of many imagination characters over the year, captain kirk, the adventure hawkeye, even miss piggy. in the real world, iowa state fair has made us believe in imaginary political characters like santorum or huckabee. iowa is a political field of dreams where candidates go in hoping to come out as a real political boy or girl. that's what ron desantis thought before he was quickly reminded the iowa gop only has eyes for trump. oh, there were candidates who went and rapped to eminem's lose

yourself, and nikki haley engaged in thinly veiled ageism. donald trump was at the fair for all of two hours but within that short amount of time, he managed to prove his hold over as hordes of maga faith folks followed him around, waiting for autographs, and chanted things like we love trump. even an entourage of florida congressman was with him, seemingly to troll florida governor ron desantis. it was a spectacle that made one think exceedingly clear, donald trump's nomination on the republican ticket appears to be inevitable. joining me now is tight rushing, senior editor at the iowa starting lines. hi, thank you so much for joining me tonight on the readout. you covered the iowa state fair. is this your first state fair, or have you been to previous ones, to sort of compare the energy of this last weekend to

previous state fairs? >> so, i have been an eye on for ten years. i've seen quite a few candidates at the iowa state fair. this last weekend, i have to say the energy was unlike anything we have ever experienced. and i talked to a bunch of other veterans, and others, we thought it was gonna be a record. it was just overly crowded. i mean, all the food lines were packed. candidates were just running everywhere. >> you had a run in with one particular candidate. the desantis campaign team contacted law enforcement to prohibit you and other reporters from starting line from attending his events. first off, how did that play out? and what was the justification? there was even a statement released by the iowa association of african american journalists. what happened? and are used to this sort of hostility from candidates when they come to the state? >> no, no. you know, i'm not used to that hostility at all from any

candidate in the state regardless of political affiliation. and i still have never received an answer from the campaign on the borrowing from entry. the statement said an attendant from the media -- but no one ever said anything to me. there was no words exchanged. i showed up for the second of three events that i was planning to cover that day. and the next thing i know, oh, cool, there are the sheriff deputies. >> i meant to say the iowa nagj. there's a lot of different things, iowa caucuses, iowa state fairs, lots of people do crazy things -- would you think donald trump is dominating the field? who do you think actually helped themselves? was it nikki haley? was it vivek? was there any candidate running around the state fair demonstrating to people that should trump tumble, should trump decide to make them a vice presidential pick, that they could sort of chime above the rest of the candidates. >> we still got tim scott

tomorrow. we need to see how that plays out. but i think vivek really shine at the fair as well. that man was everywhere. he was meeting everyone, talking to everyone. he did the fair side with the governor. he didn't stop. one of my coworkers told me that his team was telling him to take a break, and i don't think he did. he worked his butt off. and even desantis was doing a lot more crowded like he did when he first started his campaign. he had his kids with him. he had casey with him. he was doing a chat with the governors some, had blue cotton candy around his mouth. he was putting a lot of work. but think about it, no matter how much people, he still got overshadowed by that one guy. >> here's the thing also, and i think this is important, sort of moving out of the iowa state fair and what people will do next. iowa it's a place where a lot of candidates like to make multiple trips to in order to sort of establish themselves. and even though we are still

several months away from the iowa caucuses, people are trying to get their teams on the ground. given how much money is sucked up by the former twice impeached president, given the sort of faltering that we have seen in the desantis campaign, what are people's teams looking like on the ground? does tim scott have an established campaign headquarters? does he have people out working and the crowds on his behalf? is establishing their offices and attempting to get to know the voters and set up their campaign teams. >> i think a lot of other folks are just looking, putting in the work, getting that think established and set up. but i hear there's a lot of ground we'll support coming for tim scott. he tells a story really well. he's done a couple of well attended events. and i actually heard a little bit of buzz about him from another reporter who covered and earlier stop in iowa. and i was in disbelief a little bit. i'm like, really, it's got that kind of support like that? i am he even hearing that from some democratic people, who

were saying that the one they were really worried about is him and not desantis. >> the idea that iowa could be the field of dreams for tim scott is hilarious to me. thank you so much, ty rushing, for joining us this evening and reporting from iowa. mr. jason johnson sitting in for joy reid. we'll be right back. right back. ffortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley my father didn't know his dad. with ancestry i dug and dug until i found some information. birth certificate. wow. and then you add it to the tree. it's like you discover a new family member. discover even more at ancestry.com

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district attorney fani willis is still presenting her case against donald trump to a georgia grand jury. we'll have much more on that

throughout the night. and be sure to tune in at nine for rachel maddow's exclusive interview with former secretary of state hillary clinton. it is secretary clinton's first tv appearance since trump federal indictments. you will not want to miss it. that is tonight's reidout. all in starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ all in starts righ>> good eveni, d.c.. i am symone sanders-townsend in for chris hayes. we are on donald trump indictment watch, yet again, as we await what appears to be an eminent fourth indictment of the ex president, this time coming out of the state of georgia. today, grand jury in atlanta began hearing evidence in a long running investigation led by fulton county district attorney fani willis into donald trump and his efforts to steal the 2020 election in her state. we know that this probe has been focusing on the now infamous phone call that donald trump made in january of 2021, pressuring