will of the people in their state -- in each state, that this may need to happen. >> roger stone on tape, caught on tape as it were, airing for the first time on "the beat" tonight. and those plots, some of which are now indicted in georgia and washington. that is our broadcast. thanks as always for spending time with us here on "the beat" with ari melber. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> this is ridiculous application, racketeering statute. probably no one that knows it better than i do. probably some that know it as well. i was the first one to use it in white collar cases. >> the irony. rudy julianmy who put dozens of mobsters behind bars using rico back in the day is now indicted under a similar rico statute

along with donald trump in georgia. indicted with them, trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows who could face the same fate as nixon's chief of staff who went to prison helping carry out his boss's crimes. trump now facing 91 felony counts, most of his rivals for the republican presidential nomination still can't muster the courage to condemn him. and we begin tonight on that very note, donald trump drawing his fourth indictment. that is four more indictments than any prior president of the united states has ever faced. and true to form, trump is having an absolute meltdown on dimestore twitter, truth social. lashing out against the justice system and even singling out witnesses. more on that soon. but can we just pause for a second on the car mick progression on all these cases. just for a moment. the manhattan d.a. indictment humbled trump in his hometown of

new york city forcing him to surrender where the central park five who trump called to execute in a full-page ad or tried. trump's second indictment exposed mar-a-lago as the gaudy florida hiding place for what the mansion's employees who clearly don't respect him all that much called his beautiful mind boxes. stashing them on the ballroom stage and behind a tacky shower curtain in a bathroom. indictment number three zeroed in on trump alone the orchestrator of a plot to stay in office despite losing and taking advantage of the violence on january 6th to try to intimidate the vice president into going along with his criminal scheme. indictments two and three were brought by jack smith. during the time rudy giuliani was mayor of new york and presiding over a police department that specialized in police brutality, especially aimed at black new yorkers, that same jack smith prosecuted the cop who led the beating and torture of haitian immigrant

abner and who faced jack smith in federal court as one of the defense lawyers in that case, trump's lawyer in the e. jean carroll sexual abuse case, joe tacopina. you really cannot make this stuff up. but of all the indictments trump has faced, it is the indictment, number four, monday's indictment in georgia that might be the most karmically poetic. a black woman. to which his superfans respond by showering fani willis with the n word. trump and his 18 codefendants are facing rico charges, including rudy giuliani might be the world's most ironic rico defendant ever given he made a name for himself as a u.s. attorney prosecuting rico before he was major. his tactics helped earn giuliani

as a reputation as a mob buster along with a, wait for it a rico pioneer. >> i do think that the work in my office and other parts of the justice department has changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. because we're going to have to attack it as a business, not just as individual crime. we have followed up with civil rico cases. there will be some point in the future we will destroy the power of the mafia. >> this georgia indictment is the first time rudy is being held accountable under these statutes along with trump and motley crue of alleged coconspirators. giuliani and trump will be forced to face a jury in georgia, where rudy once made public comments falsely claiming to election workers committed ballot fraud. >> tape earlier in the day of ruby freeman and shea freeman moss and one other gentleman, surreptitiously passing around usb ports as if they're viles of heroin or cocaine. i mean, it's obvious to anyone

who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged in surreptitious -- >> what was your mom handing you? >> a ginger mint. >> i cannot say specifically what will take place. i don't know that it will disrupt your freedom and -- frae dom of one or more of your family members. you are a loose end. [ inaudible ]. >> that last part was publicist appearing to threaten poll worker ruby freeman. she was charged in the indictment with racketeering conspiracy to commit solicitation of false statements and influencing witnesses. trump and his codefendants, some of whom have probably spent a

lot of time chattering about out of control atlanta crime, are expected to be booked at the fulton county jail, which, yes, will likely include a mug shot for trump. nature's healing. but in this case in particular it's the rico charge that's drawing a lot of attention since it was enacted under title 9 of the organized crime control act in 1970 and signed into law by president richard nixon, the racketeering influenced and corrupt organizations act has been used to prosecute the hell's angels motorcycle gang. to go after corporate scammers. and of course, mobsters. again, led by then u.s. attorney rudy giuliani. but all rico really is the commission by one or more people of multiple crimes in furtherance of a corrupt enterprise. the crime consists in basic terms of a bunch of people committing separate crimes to make an illegal plot happen. they don't have to be in the mafia. in the state of georgia, rico gives prosecutors a lot of

flexibility to charge a group of separate individuals who worked together toward a common criminal goal. da fani willis used it against gang members, rappers and teachers alleged to have run a test cheating scheme and now trump's election theft, election theft gang, she has treated one criminal enterprise exactly the same as any other. an approach she shared when she became fulton county's top prosecutor back in 2021. >> and no matter if you are at the state capitol or the slums, you will be held accountable if you commit a crime in my community. >> the criminal enterprise trump led in multiple states and that he announced on a recorded phone call in georgia, involves multiple players, from his corrupted chief of staff to the kraken lady and john eastman and the chesebro guy who birthed the fake elector scheme and fake electors involved in the scam and kanye west's publicist tried

to strong arm election workers. that is literally a group of people acting in a single conspiracy to pull off an illegal enterprise. stealing an election, right, that's the enterprise. i mean, they're all innocent until proven guilty, of course, but there is nothing about that enterprise that is less illegal than a group of educators inflating scores on student's standardized tests. in fact, it is much, much worse. and if teachers should go to jail for breaking the law, then so should election thieves, which is exactly by da fani willis is forging ahead. proposing a trial date of march 4th, 2024, for her case against trump and his associates. willis also asked to schedule arraignments for the defendants for the week of september 5th. joining me now is tim o. brian, senior executive editor of broom bloomberg opinion, paul butler, msnbc legal analyst and georgetown law professor. thank you for being here.

i'm in new york. usually paul is next to me, this time it's tim because i'm here in new york. i just want to go back to giuliani for a second since you know these characters all so well. i want to read you what "the new york times" -- there was an opinion piece by one of his biographers, andrew curtsman and david holly what they wrote about rudy has become. they wrote this. faced with the political irrelevance and collapsing client base that would accompany mr. trump's defeat, in 2020, he seemingly made a faus yan bargain working to undermine democracy in order to save his career. i feel like it was a few years before that. what do you make of the fact that the rico guy is now the rico defendant? >> well, it's shakespearian in its dimensions because rudy was an evangelist about the rule of law in a very draconian way. and he used rico, i think, to great effect as we all know to go after the mob. the argument being that you could never touch the people at

the head of the mob families because they were very good at insulating their own actions from their minions who went out there, soldiers out on the street, who did the crimes. rudy said, it was very important to attach what lower level people did to the people orchestrating the schemes. shades of donald trump much later. everybody who has been pulled up in the january 6th investigation has complained that they came there because trump asked them to come here. they thought they were doing what they had been told to do and yet trump wasn't being held accountable. the argument against rico being used by fani willis to go after trump is then that it's overreach. that it should only go after organized crime. but the statute is meant to go against organized criminal conspiracies not necessarily just conspiracies that italian mobsters were targeted for. and in that context, one of giuliani's biggest cases in addition to the commission case targeting the mobsters was wall street. he brought down draxle burr nam.

he targeted michael milken, he cited the person in the financial web involving insider trading and financial fraud. he himself recognized that rico wasn't a statute that should only be used against people we traditionally call criminals. fani willis, as you noted in your opening, has also adapted it to target other people including drug dealers. and so, i think that the idea that this thing that he created has now come around and snapped him up is both ironic but overdue because he sold himself out and he sold himself out to trump. it's a reminder how easily trump corrupts people in his orbit but he can only corrupt them if they're corruptible. and rudy for all of his finger wagging over the years at people of color for being street criminals. >> yep. >> mobsters and any others for

not following the rule of law has now shown he's just as base and just as craven as any number of the people he once prosecuted. >> you know, it's funny he once said something to the effect of anyone in public lifelong enough will become corrupt. he prosecuted public officials elected officials -- >> for tax scandal -- >> he didn't have a problem expanding rico beyond mobsters. >> because his view was that justice applied to anyone involved in a criminal act and anyone working with other people as part of a conspiracy. i think fani willis in her indictment was very careful to use the language from the state statue on rico to define why this was a rico case. >> yeah. let me read you, paul butler, what some of the wise guys are saying. the people who is this has been used against them, against mobsters are saying about mafia buster giuliani getting indicted. this is ron kuby, will be familiar to any new yorker who has been following sort of the

world of law there. this is what he said. he said it is just delightful -- he's a lawyer that represented the gambino associate the sea monster surge owe. quote, it is just delightful to watch the guy who expanded rico prosecutions well beyond the original intent and did so grasping for the biggest headlines to watch him be indicted by the very law he championed. and, paul, i want to let you comment on that. right, the fact that rudy giuliani knows better because he did use rico in an expansive way when he was a prosecutor and he understood that all it is a collection of people committing separate crimes toward one criminal end. you can apply that to nonmobsters, too. he understood that. how ironic is it, for you, as a former prosecutor, that he then walked right into a racketeering scam himself? >> both crazy, ironic and poetic justice all at the same time because all of this is all of

that, joy. you know, if we look at this georgia rico statute, which gives prosecutors even more power than the federal rico statute does, not a whole lot of republicans in georgia had a problem with that state's rico law when prosecutors were using it how those lawmakers no doubt intended it, mainly to bring charges against young, black men accused of gang activity. it's only when the racketeers include white, privileged lawyers and when the head gang banger is donald trump that rico is subject to criticism from conservatives. but defense attorneys have never liked rico, precisely because it provides so much power to prosecutors, particularly to what's near the small players in a criminal enterprise and subject them to big time. but fani willis is now using

that power to go after the people she thinks are the biggiest, thickiest fish in the pond and now for some reason all these conservatives who were supposed to be champions of law and order, they have a problem with what fani willis is doing. >> well, and i feel like, tim, it kind of goes for trump as well, right? donald trump has lived a rarefied life of criming. i feel like he's been committing different crimes his whole life, not paying his taxes, obviously what he did to e. jean carroll and their 25 some odd other women who claim something between sexual harassment and assault. he's just been criming so long that there was just this sense, no one can touch me, right? i've bought the da. i know -- but in this case, it does feel, to paul's point, like trump and his supporters, are finding out what it's like to live in the real world where the rule of law applies to you. that's what they relate to with him. they also feel that they are people who should not have the law apply to them and that's why

they relate to him. he's about to f around and find out because fani willis careette not. you go be booked at the jail, you'll be treated like a other person, mug shot. >> judge chutkan in the january 6th case at the federal level f you're going to flap your mouth and talk in a way that might intimidate witnesses or influence jurors, i'm going to sanction you. this is a court of law. and you are subject to the same processes in this court as everyone else. you know, this idea that donald trump is -- has nine legal lives and that he has spent, you know, 50 of his 77 years dodging the law, there's a lot of myth around that because the reality is the last time he faced a serious federal investigation was when he and his father got investigated in the early 1970s for racial discrimination -- >> by the nixon administration. >> by their brooklyn and queens housing developments. and that didn't end up well for

them. every other time he's been in -- around a courtroom, it's involved him essentially using a -- weapon niedsing legal process to intimidate people and taking his grievances to the press. this is the first time in his entire life that a series of very concerted efforts by talented and dedicated prosecutors with piles and piles of damning evidence in front of them -- the phone call to brad raffensperger is not really in doubt as to what trump was trying to do. the documents he took to mar-a-lago, there's not a lot of doubt about what was going on there. and his own cameras taped some of the things they did to hide those documents. and he can't take this to the media and win. he's going to have to deal with this in a courtroom. he's never been there before and i think he's scared. i think he's cornered and that's why he's lashing out on social media. >> sure. >> i think his supporters like him because he's anti-institutional in a way that pulls them into his orbit.

his working class supporters. and they see this as the institutions going after their avatar. the reality i think is these narratives play out in court people are going to have to reconsider how he rolls and who he is. and he will have to deal with possible sentences. >> yeah. and let's get to one piece of sort of new news, paul, 43-year-old woman reporting from ryan riley from texas was ordered detained on wednesday after she was arrested for allegedly threaten the federal judge who is overseeing a criminal case against donald trump. abigail joe faces charges of transmitting a threat to injure a person. she allegedly threatened sheila jackson lee and lgbtq community and threatening judge chutkan, calling her a slave, using the n word, saying we want to kill you. if trump doesn't get elected in 2024, we're coming to kill you all, that sort of thing. i won't read anymore of it. we know that donald trump has

now created a new term rigger which is now being used in lieu of a racial slew he posted on pretend twitter. they're going racial. paul, they're not hiding it. now we have threats against the judge in the other case, this is in the jack smith case. >> yeah. reportedly judge chutkan has had to massively increase her security detail after getting this case. there was this really poignant moment the day after it was announced that judge chutkan would be presiding in the case of united states versus donald trump. one of the lawyers who appeared before her said, judge, be careful. she said, i'm trying. and when we look at -- i want to say threats from trump. they're not direct threats. but when he says things like, if you come after me, i'm coming

after you. everybody knows who he means. that's not political speech. that's criminal. he's already been allowed to get away with so much more than any other defendant has or would be if anybody is going to put a stop to this, joy, it's not judge cannon in florida. it's almost certainly going to be judge chutkan in washington, d.c. with, again, her incredibly canny, genius move of threatening the only sanction that could possibly make donald trump follow the rules, which is to hold that trial early if he keeps messing up. >> and by the way, i will note for our audience, too, that the addresses of the people who sat on that grand jury bravely so in georgia have also been grabbed and released. and so, it is kind of like a

mafia prosecution. i think that his supporters are wrong. it is like a mob prosecution, complete with the threats against the people who are potential witnesses and people who were jurors and who were involved in the case. tim o'brien, paul butler, thank you very much. up next on "the reidout," white house chief of staff to potential felon, do you think he regrets hitching his wagon to donald trump's tractor after this. "the rachel maddow show" continues after this. "the rachel maddow show" continues after this diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by over 50% and keep it low with two doses a year. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. ask your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio. ♪

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among toug's 18 codefendants in georgia is his former white house chief of staff mark meadows. once an influential member of congress as the cofounder and chairman of the ultra conservative house freedom caucus, he opted to give up his safe north carolina seat to do the bidding of now twice impeached, four-times indicted former president. in return, he could be looking at years in prison. meadows faces two counts in the 41-count indictment and is accused of participating in eight overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy to overturn georgia's election result. that includes traveling to georgia to gain access to an election audit in progress. one that was not open to the public. and participating in the infamous call with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. yesterday meadows filed a court document seeking to move his fulton county election case to

federal court, arguing he was acting in his official capacity as trump's chief of staff. joining me now is former florida congressman and msnbc political analyst, david jolly. you're a lawyer, david. >> i never said i'm a good lawyer, joy. there are better ones. >> we talking about trump, david. you just have to have a bar license to answer this question. so the reality is i want to ask you as a legal analyst for a moment, how likely is it that someone can make a successful argument that they should have their case moved to federal court based on them criming while on duty? it doesn't make sense to me. >> yeah. i would analogize it to when members of congress used the defense of the speech and debate clause that almost anything they do as a sitting member of congress qualifies for some type of immunity or privilege because they were a sitting member. mark meadows among the 18

charged in georgia because he was the chief of staff to the president of the united states. so he's essentially making the case in layman's terms that, hey, i was acting in my official capacity with the color of some government official on behalf of the president of the united states. the federal judge will have to consider the merits of that. and to your point, the judge might say, no, look, there are clear allegations that you engaged in rico violations and in crimes. so it's going to sit there in the jurisdiction in which the case was brought. the intriguing thing, though, the reason he wants to do this and this goes to mark meadow's ethos, if you will, is because he does not want to face the substantive question regarding donald trump. thus far, mark meadows is an intriguing character. count me in the group that think he's provided information to jack smith and cooperating with jack smith. in the georgia case he is trying to get himself removed. if he is asked to testify under

oath, i don't know which way he goes in terms of talking about his old boss. >> that's an interesting -- there's been some reporting that trump's people fear he has flipped. right? >> yeah. >> so if he testifies in this case truthfully, could what he says be used to undo any arraignment he had with jack smith? >> well, see, this is where i said i'm not a great lawyer. maybe i just am not a trial attorney is a better way to say it. i do believe any information in either case can certainly be used, yes, i do believe that is the case. and so, look, in the mark meadow's case, i having served with him, i know him somebody who believes his own convictions, if you will. people can certainly look at his behavior and say, yes, but you supported donald trump who tried to subvert the constitution, you participated in a phone call and other activities. how far does that conviction go? i think mark meadows, one, wants to stay out of federal prison himself. he's willing to cooperate. and somehow come out on top of all this. >> can you explain -- you know

him. what would have motivated him to leave a safe seat in georgia in the congress, to join donald trump? is his ideology the same as trump's? why would he go along with so much of what trump did? >> this is fascinating. so, north carolina was undergoing an uncertain redistricting and republican seats were becoming more favorable -- >> sorry, north carolina, yes. >> sorry, north carolina. mark meadows in that 2020 cycle was facing redistricting. it was still a trump seat. but nonetheless he saw the opportunity to become donald trump's fourth chief of staff and so he took it. interestingly, though to your point, as a freedom caucus member, i never understood why those who believed in the power of the legislative branch turned around and supported an executive branch that tried to seize more power than we have ever seen in modern political history and actually seize extra constitutional behavior and then the likes of mulvaney and

meadows and desantis and others sat there and defended donald trump's behavior. there are reasons to ask about mark meadow's convictions when it comes to political philosophy. >> he seemed to be somebody who was very motivated to overturn the election in georgia, right? he is physically there trying to do it. does that track with what you know about him and his character? >> look, it does now because we have all had the opportunity to observe him. the early days of mark meadows, no, i don't think so. but i think what donald trump brought in was the complete revelation of win at all costs. doesn't matter what the rules or constitution says. win at all costs. get power. beat the democrats. mark meadows an others believed that they're in some type of ideological warfare for the future of the country. if it means empowering donald trump to shred the donald trump and steal the 2020 election, apparently meadows was an accomplice to that. but he does not want to face prison. which is my theory he has

cooperated. >> please stick around. maybe you can help me figure out why so many of trump's presidential opponents are so weirdly reluctant to call him out. that's next. y reluctant to call out. that's next. [ applause ] >> the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day a confident day... a never-hide-my-smile day... a life-of-the-party day... a take-on-the-world day... a believe-in-myself day... a flash-my-new-teeth day. because your clearchoice day is the day you get your confidence back for good. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. my husband and i have never been more active.

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david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit

gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. the republican presidential front-runner having now racked up a whopping 91 felony counts across four separate indictments, one would think that the candidates trailing far behind him in the polls would be

using this information to, i don't know, actually campaign against him. but alas, in the 2024 republican primary field, almost all of donald trump's opponents are still unwilling to criticize him. instead, some are using as an opportunity to blame the weaponization of government, take tim scott and ron desantis. >> we see the legal system being weaponized against political opponents. that is un-american and unacceptable. at the end of the day, we need a better system than that. >> i think it's an example of this criminalization of politics. i don't think that this is something that's good for the country. >> why are either of them here? some are flocking to trump's defense, like vivek rem swanny who is volunteering himself. make them all go away. that will help. others are doing their best -- just ignore all together. only chris christie, asa

hutchinson and will hurd have signed up. joining me now, back with me former congressman david jolly. i'll go to you first, david. why are any of them running? >> well, that's a good question, but the reason that none can condemn donald trump because they spent two years plus defending him since january 6th. they suggested that donald trump should not be indictmented. so now that an indictment has been handed up, they can't turn around and say, oh, whoa is me. the former president should drop out. only hurd and kristy, donald trump engaged in ill behaviors. the one that surprises me is tim scott. he is looking to create a lane combination of being an aspirational republican and some type of loyal toy the office and the constitution. he certainly didn't show it there. >> he's running to be a door mat. literally, like, everyone. why are you running against him?

let's go to you, tia, brave a little bit, brian kemp is still defending his state. the 2020 election in georgia was not stolen for nearly three years. evidence and fraud has failed to come forward under oath and prove anything in a court of law. mr. vote suppresser, whatever. but let's move on to the response from marjorie taylor greene. who literally lost her mind, should have been against us not arguing with trump, president trump, about the election and make it about his own ego. i might be donald trump's vice president. your thoughts on all of this and what is happening in georgia. >> so, it's so interesting. i mean, marjorie taylor greene, we know she's a huge donald trump defender. she remains closely aligned with him. so, the fact that she was not happy at the indictment, to be expected from marjorie taylor greene. her decision to go after brian

kemp is more interesting. it's definitely interesting that now she's bloating herself as someone who might be interested in running for senate. everyone knows that the rumor is that brian kemp will be running for senate because he's term limited from the governor's office. there had been rumors about marjorie taylor greene whether she wanted to run for senate. there were rumors in january about whether she was interested in being trump's running mate. and both times she demured and was like, well, that's not what i'm thinking about. but now it's like, no. she's in going and blasting governor kemp, she's also putting herself up as someone who would be willing to be trump's running mate and as someone who in the absence of that might be willing to primary governor kemp if he decides he wants to run for senate. so to me, it's all indicative of the us versus them standpoint that a lot of trump supporters have. so, once they feel that you're

not for trump and by just stating that the election was free and fair, that goes against what trump is saying. and therefore for people like marjorie taylor greene, that means brian kemp is no longer not just that he's avoiding wrestling with trump, you know, avoiding getting in the mud with trump, but now she's perceiving that as him taking trump on and for her that's unacceptable. >> you know, george w. bush once said is our children learning. it's a good question, david jolly. in the state of georgia, brian kemp, who again i'm not a fan. i think he's a vote suppresser. i don't think he signed that law under a picture of a slave plantation. a good guy when it comes to black georgians. however, he's been quite successful with that line, saying, no, no. biden won georgia. and he survived politically. meanwhile, the lesson every person that's similar to marjorie taylor greene who ran statewide for governor or

senate, lost. when is the republican party going to get tired of having people like marjorie taylor greene put themselves forward as serious candidates for statewide office? herschel walker, another one of those? >> yeah. not until the likes of marjorie taylor greene start losing. >> but they do. they're already losing. >> well, i know. but look, marjorie taylor greene, look, i hear that she might run as trump's running mate. that's great. please put on full display the entire ignorance of the republican movement, the lack of conviction, the willingness to go for hatred. at the same time you don't want her in a position of power because the danger that she and others creates to the future of the country, particularly for marginalized community. so look, brian kemp is an intriguing one. he has been a republican on policy and ideology and offending marginalized communities, black and brown georgians and that should be talked about. but he also confronted donald

trump in a very straight forward way and said, no, the election wasn't stolen and he survived. but that makes him a unicorn in today's republican party not the future of it. >> i don't know if people understand how extreme it is. could marjorie green get the nomination for united states senate in 2026? >> yeah, this would be a 2026 race. you know, when you talk to the mainstream georgia republicans, they point to brian kemp's successes in 2022 running. he had a primary from the right in former senator perdue, a trump-endorsed opponent. and kemp won his primary easily. so they say, you know, republicans in georgia will go with marjorie taylor greene. now, i think that's rosy. marjorie taylor greene is not a david purdue. david pure due had his own kind

of things that were working against him behind brian kemp. the stock trading during the coronavirus pandemic among them. his personal wealth makes him kind of be elite that a lot of republicans say they don't want to see in office. marjorie taylor greene's story is just much different. so, it would definitely be a primary for the ages. you know, and a lot will depend on where the republican party goes from here. we've got three years. if it's still a very trumpy republican party, you know, that could mean a big primary contest for governor kemp. >> it will be very interesting. we do know who is very likely to be the republican presidential nominee, it won't be donald trump. no surprises there. numbers do not lie. some americans may not be feeling it. compared to the rest of the world, the u.s. is going gang busters economically in the post-covid era. i'll show you exactly how we know this and who we have to thank for it after the break. ho thank for it after the break

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complimentary way at the time, but guess what, it's working. >> that was president biden today marking the anniversary of the inflation reduction act. guess what, he's not wrong. in the year since the signing the inflation has gone from unemployment remains at nearly a 50 year low. our economy has the lowest inflation rate and the strongest economic recovery of all the g7 nations. the prospect of a recession is diminishing due in part to strong consumer confidence. but you don't hear about that because republicans will only talk about manufacturing crises like the dangers of critical race theory, drag queens, and the threat posed by teaching their gun is treated. children with me is robert, right former secretary of labor in the clinton administration, professor of public policy at uc berkeley and cofounder of inequality media. he posted an excellent video on threats, explaining this

manufactured republican hysteria. it's great to have you on, sir. talk to me about this a little bit. it seems to me that the more republicans scream about drag queens and putting pressure videos instead of real history in schools, it's an indication they want to avoid talking about bidenomics. >> they are trying to deflect attention from the fact that the economy is great. it's a goldilocks economy. i'll tell, you i've been watching and participating in economic policy for at least 30 years, and i don't recall an economy that is this good. but the american public, the republicans basically want, do they want to talk about wokeism? what is that? they won't talk about critical race theory? i don't think most of the country really cares about this stuff, but it is a deflection that at least among certain people in certain parts of this country it is deflecting attention from what's really going on.

>> is it possible, in your experience, to get people to actually feel like the economy is dead? when you pull people, people say we're in a recession. that's literally not true. it's easier to find a job for most people. is it because you don't like your job that you say that unemployment is high? if you don't like, you know what i mean? if you don't like your personal circumstances, you read the economy as worse than it is. is that what it is? >> i think part of it is that. part of it also is that remember we have been through a rollercoaster of cover the last three or four years in terms of the pandemic, the economic consequence of the pandemic, the economy going down, the economy going up with inflation. i think a lot of people are still kind of uncomfortable with the future. they're so traumatized with everything that has gone on. on top of that you have a republican party which as we've been talking about is trying to tell people that things are terrible when in fact their good. i believe that over the next

eight months republicans who don't think the economies are that good are going to realize that it is. >> the way that the infrastructure bill went in the bill passes in the money that'll flow right away but now we're in the phase where you're starting to see the shovels going in the ground you, starting to see things happen. do you think the bill was timed in a way that's going to be helpful politically to democrats, even though republicans are running out trying to take credit for each and everything that's being built in their districts? >> yes. i think a lot of it is going to stimulate the economy exactly at the right time. remember, joy, as the -- has tried to raise interest rates to slow the economy, a lot of money coming into the economy has acted as a cushion to prevent the economy from going into recession. it has already been a great thing, and i expect that over the next 6 to 8 months people are going to appreciate lot a lot more. and also parts of the inflation

reduction act that people don't even know about, for example, that medicare can negotiate for lower drug prices. i don't even hear that anywhere. nobody is talking about it. but it's a huge deal. >> the other thing i think that's happening, is you're starting to see some positive things about climate. we see maui burning. we can see that the earth is in crisis and that the climate is in crisis. we see what's happening in hawaii. you just had a montana judge with 16 teenagers on the state's failure to consider greece -- saying violates the state constitution because it doesn't protect montana's right to a clear and healthy environment. we see small moves forward on climate. is that enough to move young voters who really care about this stuff, and i agree we don't hear about it enough, but what do you make of that? >> young voters, you put your finger on. that young voters do care passionately about this. they are going to have to live with the consequences while old fogies like me are gonna be

long gone. and so they are taking a much more activist much more dedicated and committed to fighting climate change and that's what we saw in montana. it's what we're gonna see all over the country and joe biden is on the side of wind and solar and all sorts of ways of slowing climate change or reversing it. so i think young people are going to be very activated because of all of this. >> you've been in policy along. time rate bidenomics on the obamacare scale. at first obamacare was raided as a slur against health care, and then it turned into a great thing that people actually wanted to defend. bidenomics, read that. >> i think bidenomics six or eight months from now is going to be better than obamacare in terms of messaging. but let's face it, democrats are not terribly skillful. going all the way back to the clinton administration. we just couldn't get the word

out. people have to experience what's going on. it takes 6 to 8 months. >> you wouldn't think they had all hollywood on their side. just call someone in hollywood and tell them how to do. it robert right, thank you very. much will be right back. right back. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin

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all in with chris hayes's are now. be sure to tune in at nine pm. alex wagner is celebrating one year of alex wagner tonight. much love. see you. by. see you. >> tonight on all in -- >> america? what happened to it? >> nine days left to surrender, and trump's top lieutenants lashes out. >> this is a ridiculous application of the racketeering statute. probably no one knows it better than i do. >> tonight, the dea requests a start