eastern on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. rew good to be with you, i'm katy tur. where is the line? donald trump has poked and prodded and tested the warnings against his inflammatory post indictment rhetoric which lawyers and security experts say can rile up his base and unintentionally result in someone acting out, believing they are doing it on his behalf. was that what happened in texas? police have a woman in custody. she's accused of threatening the life of judge chutkan. she left a voice mail promise to go kill anyone who went after former president trump. you will be targeted personally, publicly, your family, all of it. documents don't link her message with trump's words, but the dates listed show she left that message one day after donald

trump's, if you go after me, i'm coming after you, post, which trump's team said was directed toward political groups. the question now is what, if anything, will judge chutkan do about donald trump's continued attacks on both the cases and those involved. will she speed up a trial date, put a gag order on the case or find the former president in contempt of court. again, where exactly is the line? we could hear from judge chutkan soon. the deadline for donald trump's lawyers to respond to a proposed start date for the election interference trial is today. at the same time, and the same worry, the fulton county grand jurors who voted to indict donald trump are exposed, purported names, photos and addresses have start the circulating on far right forums. one person wrote, these jurors have signed their death warrant by falsely indicting donald trump.

joining me now, nbc news correspondent, garrett haake who's in atlanta for us, and nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. let's start with the federal case. and this woman who was arrested in texas, threats towards judge chutkan. ken, what can you tell us about what her lawyers have said about this? >> katy, first of all, judge chutkan got a security detail immediately after she was named the judge in this case, and now we know why. in this case in texas, abigail jo schry, 33 years old, in a town south of houston, admitted to making this call to the judge's chambers on august 5th, in which she said, among others things, including what you said, hey you stupid slave and used the n-word, and allegedly said you are in our sights, we want to kill you. if trump doesn't get elected in 2024, tread lightly, and used the b word. really vile stuff.

we learned through court records she had been arrested four times previously for making threats and told the department of homeland security agents that she didn't intend o carry out the threats, and one of her relatives told authorities that she tends to get drunk and scream at the tv after watching news shows, presumably not this show, katy, but look, this is one of a piece, right, and we're g in a climate now where you have the man who attacked paul pelosi in his house and the man in utah who was armed and shot bit fbi, all consuming this hatred, and by the way, donald trump hasn't said a word about any of this. he hasn't condemned it. he hasn't commented on it. instead he's spent today or released videos attacking jack smith, the special counsel, something a regular defend couldn't get away with. it's important to remember that a defendant out on bond, or released with a pending criminal charge, they don't have the same constitutional rights that other people have. judges can impose all kinds of conditions on them, drug

testing, prohibiting them from having firearms, all kinds of things. it's just a tough thing for judges to do in this case, we're going to find out where the line is. as you mentioned. >> can there be a concrete line. is it possible to define a concrete line for donald trump given the amount of things he says, and the wiggle room they'll argue and what he says. i mean, the lawyers say if you go after me, i'm coming after you post, was directed toward political groups. he didn't say this is directed toward political groups when he made that statement on social media. it was just out there in its ambiguous form. >> when i talk to legal experts, they said that because donald trump is running for president, judges are going to give him extraordinary leeway because political speech is the most protected in our constitution. the line is comments that can be construed as threats to witnesses or the judge or the prosecutors, like the one you just mentioned, and so, then the question becomes if that's the line and he crosses it, what is the leverage? i mean, is it locking donald

trump up? is that where we're going to go? that opens up a whole can of worms about secret service protection, and it's just, you know, uncharted territory. >> let's talk about what's happening in fulton county, the grand jurors. i know it's part of georgia law there, part of their effort to make things more transparent, to list the jurors names. i don't think anyone thought that this is what would happen by doing that. but it certainly now has happened, their names, addresses photographs, purported, all posted online. garrett. >> well, yeah, katy, look, the names of these folks is public record. it's attached to the charging documents. that's the georgia policy here. it's not a much bigger jump for folks so inclined to look these people up and post them on far right web sites, which we understand is what happened here. since our reporting on this issue yesterday, the fulton county sheriff's office has come

out with a statement in the last half hour, they're aware of this, and take it seriously, and they intend to respond to any specific threats against any of the grand jurors, quite robustly. the information is public and doesn't appear to have been specific threats against them. it's another thing to monitor, and speaks to the rising temperature of all of this that you guys have just described, sort of especially unfair for these grand jurors who received a grand jury summons, the way you or i did. one of the most politically volatile cases in political history. >> and then what are you seeing out there in fulton county? i know that the 19 people who have been indicted have until next friday to show up, to turn themselves in. has anyone showed up so far? >> not that we have been able to see, katy. we've got teams keeping an eye on the fulton county jail, which is a different location from

this courthouse. we have not seen anybody coming in to take that distinction of being the first person to turn themselves in in this case. most of what we have seen so far are lawyers being hired by some of these individuals, and filings being made by mark meadows and possibility others will follow, trying to move this case into federal court. it doesn't seem like anybody wants to be the first to come forward, and some of these people, perhaps further down the list, among the 19 individuals charged, didn't know they were going to be charged or didn't have legal representation set up. that's why they're given this lengthy time line until noon next friday. i expect to see more people taking advantage of the opportunity to turn themselves in next week. they would probably prefer to do it after donald trump and the media that tended to them are gone. >> garrett haake, thank you very much, and ken dilanian, thank you. former assistant district attorney in manhattan, and nbc news legal analyst, katherine christian. i want to dwell a little bit on where the line is. >> given that donald trump is

running for president again, given that he was the former president and the way that he says that this is a political effort to silence him, to deprive him of his constitutional rights. how, as a judge, can you walk that fine line between protecting your courthouse that people are involved in the case, and not drawing increased ire from somebody who has shown he's willing to say just about anything no matter what the potential consequences might be? >> well, the time is now, katy. no defendant anywhere in this country would be out now, meaning free if they did what donald trump did. first of all, he has four open indictments now, in four different jurisdictions. he has multiple counts of obstruction of justice. he has repeatedly issue

unambiguously intimidated by posting on his social media witnesses, attorneys, judges and prosecutors. no one would be out now. the problem is no judge, and he's been before three judges and the magistrates have said, mr. trump, if you do x, the consequence is y. he has been told not to talk to witnesses but hasn't been told, you will do this. but then the judge didn't add and if you do that, this will happen. the time is now, and it will have to be judge chutkan or the georgia judge, but probably judge chutkan. it's on next week on august 28th. for her to set the trial date. she said to the attorneys, remember, donald trump is not present. inflammatory statements might mean a quicker trial date, but she did not say inflammatory

statements mean contempt of court. it might mean you have pretrial detention. it is time now for a judge to do that. he will obviously be given an opportunity to be heard if he crosses that line, and she says i'm holding you in contempt, his lawyers will argue why he should be held in contempt. but he's clearly being given special treatment. for him to say he's persecuted, he's been given special treatment. obstruction of justice counts and done what he has done, would be free to walk around. >> do you expect her to say anything about this next week, is that the earliest or could she come out sooner? >> i also add, the special counsel also hasn't, you know, moved to say something. >> do you need to do that? is that what she's waiting for, jack smith to say -- >> they should be doing that. she doesn't have to do what the prosecutors, she can on her own

do that, and she might actually do that. he has to be present, and he doesn't have to be physically there. he could be like i am, remotely, but he has to be told so he clearly understands, if you do this, this is going to happen to you. not may, might, it will happen to you. because that's the only way it will stop. and in terms of, oh, secret service, you know what the judge can do, she can have the secret service, the general counsel, the u.s. marshals, the federal bureau of prisons come to her courtroom, and have them assure her that there is a way to protect a former president of the united states if he is locked up the same way everyone else would be throughout this country if they did what he did. so it's not that challenging. they can find a way to do that. if you're making a mockery of the justice system by allowing him to keep doing this. >> what if he's going after people involved in other cases against him, not directly involved in judge chutkan's case. if he's going after say the

lieutenant governor, former lieutenant governor of georgia who testified in the fulton grand jury who told him not to testify. if he's doing that down there, can she argue that that is indirectly chilling other witness who is might be called in her case? >> it could. you have the judge in georgia, it will be his responsibility to say that. her photo being put up on his social media web site, i would say is a direct cause of that clearly mentally unwell person in texas. i remind people in new jersey, a united states district court judge had her son murdered and her husband seriously injured just a few years ago. it is very dangerous to be placing a judge, federal, state up and you're basically taunting her and taunting your followers, many of whom are not well, to do something against her.

and, you know, it will only stop if he is forced to stop, and she said, judge chutkan that politics will not be allowed in her courtroom. donald trump is a criminal defendant. he has to start being treated like a criminal defendant. >> i want to mention that the lawyers for the texas woman have not responded to comment from nbc news, neither have donald trump's lawyers have not responded to they are arrest. i'll put that out there. catherine, thank you very much for joining us, i appreciate it. how far is donald trump willing to go and where is he getting his play book? in other words, what's he going to do next. what happened when a group of kids took on the state of montana over climate change? first, though, what went wrong, how maui's emergency director is defending the decision not to sound the warning sirens as wildfires tore through lahaina.

what he says he thought residents would do if he heard them. we're back in 60 seconds. heard them we're back in 60 seconds today. that's why they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road. and we're helping pano ai innovate, to stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

for the first time since the wildfire devastation in hawaii, emergency responding officials are being pressed directly on the response. here with the maui emergency management agency administrator, herman andia, defending himself and his decision not to sound the warning sirens. >> i took a civil service exam, interviewed by seasoned emergency managers, they deemed me qualified. in fact, i was selected. >> do you regret not sounding the sirens? >> i do not. >> so many people said they could have been saved if they had time to escape, had a siren gone off, they would have known that there was a crisis emerging and as we know, so many bodies

were found in the ground as the flames -- >> do you want me to give you the answer? >> i do. >> let him finish his answer. >> there's a lot of people -- you're talking, now let him talk. >> if you want to talk, come up here. >> i'm ready for the answer. >> the public is trying to seek higher ground in the event the siren is sounding. the fire guideline is prevents, if you are in a low lying area near the coastline, evacuate to high grounds. and then fourth floor and higher. alerts may come in the form of a wireless emergency alert. had we sounded siren that night, we're afraid people would have gone, and if that was the case they would have gone into the fire. >> he says if you rang the sirens people might have gone up ground toward the fire and not away from the fire. the death toll stands at 111 people. it will rise.

would those people still have died if the sirens went off. there's heavy scrutiny on hawaiian electric, new data says there were 34 incidents on the power lines around lahaina the night before the fire started, including this one, a sudden flash on the line, 20 miles outside of the beach front town. joining me now from maui is nbc news correspondent dana griffin, talk to me about this energy grid monitoring system, and the new suspicions that this all started because of a downed power line? >> reporter: i can tell you right now, hawaiian electric has been hit with a fourth lawsuit. and part of our reporting, helped set the stage for the wildfires through years of negligence and failures to have plans to shut down power systems before fierce winds flew through hawaii. they are not commenting on the pending litigation, but their

focus is on trying to get power restored to 2,000 customers. it's important to note a lot of customers have burned down homes. it's unclear what the number of the impact is for people still living here in lahaina. hawaiian electric says that they are also looking into claims that utility workers may have blocked off the entrance, the main road out of lahaina because they were trying to install power poles. these witnesses say they blocked the incoming lane as they were trying to flee, and they said that made no sense, we were telling the crews to get out of the way so we can escape. this is all setting the stage for a lot of investigation into the power company, whether there was a downed line. we saw video from at resident who says the fire started in his backyard, and he showed us downed power lines and smoke. we spoke with one of the attorneys representing this

class action lawsuit. listen to what he had to say? >> reallege negligence in the case. we have also alleged strict liability. we have a claim for what's called ultrahazardous activity. and for that specifically, what we are alleging there is that the ultrahazardous activity was keeping the power running during this very serious wind event and in advance of it. this wasn't some fire that ignited on some giant piece of private land off in the middle of a ranch or the wilderness somewhere where a line hits another line. this happened in someone's backyard. >> reporter: and we are even seeing more lahaina residents show up today, many wearing masks and gators, trying to protect themselves as they go into these toxic areas. many people encouraged to wear n95 masks and gloves, and wash

your hands. joining me now is alice lee, thank you very much for being with us. everything went wrong, the sirens didn't go off, the electric company didn't turn off power lines. the text messages didn't go through because cell signals were down. what are you doing right now to get to the bottom of this response? >> hi, katy, thank you for inviting us here. we are part of a legislative branch, and so we're the boots on the ground group. we will be looking into this matter, the siren, and the power issue probably in the next few weeks. but the governor has already initiated an investigation by his attorney general. so you can expect more and more

information to surface in the coming weeks, coming months, so it's really hard for us at this point to speculate exactly what happened when we don't have all the facts available to us at this point. >> as the maui county chair, how do you feel about herman andaya's decision not to sound the sirens? >> i hate to speculate. i don't know all the facts. i know he gave the explanation at the press conference, and, again -- >> is that all the facts you need to know respectfully on this? is there more you need to know, the sirens didn't go off, there are 111 people dead, that number is expected to rise. they haven't even searched half of the burned area? >> well, i would assume that there's a protocol for making those decisions. see i'm guessing that he doesn't make decisions unilaterally, so i would need to see who did he

check with, what was the criteria, what was the protocol, did he follow the rules and regulations, i don't know. >> do you think if the sirens would have gone off people would have taken off to the mountains, and instead of maybe looking outside and realizing they should get out of town? >> again, i hate to speculate because right now we are so focused on still, research, on search and recovery, and these other issues, although they are very significant, they are underway in terms of information gathering and investigation. i don't want to let you think i'm trying to evade the question. i mean say that as a person who has lived and was born and raised on maui, if i heard that siren, generally, it pertains to

tsunami warnings. generally. and as a tsunami warning, you would not run inland, excuse me, you wouldn't run to the ocean. because that's where the tsunami is coming from. you would run inland. so, but then again, that's my opinion only. that's not a fact in terms of what the protocol is or what the criteria is in making decisions with regard to turning on the siren or alert systems. >> that's a horrifying system, and we feel for everybody out there, especially those who lost everything, including loved ones and are waiting for others who are missing. every day we cover this story, it just gets worse. we appreciate your time and we appreciate you coming on and answering our questions. maui county chair, allison lee,

thank you very much. >> if i may say want thing, please, you can send your donations to mauicounty.gov, and right now we are asking for financial donations because a lot of the people are transitioning out of their emergency shelters into temporary shelters and have different kinds of needs. so cash donations would be helpful at this point? >> mauicounty.gov. >> yes. >> county chair alice lee, thank you very much for joining me. up next, how a group of kids in montana stood up to their right for a healthy environment, and how they won. plus, from the shocking language to the air of invincibility, what donald trump's former attorney and mentor taught him about not playing by the rules. playing by the rules ugh. well, i switched to swiffer wetjet, and it's awesome. it's an all-in-one, that absorbs dirt and grime deep inside. and it helps prevent streaks and haze.

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constitutional rights of young people when approving fossil fuel projects. our children's trust, the legal nonprofit that brought the case says this is only the beginning, 16 montana youth plaintiffs, ages 5 through 22 sued the state to channel the constitutionality of anticlimate policies. they cited a provision added to the new state constitution in 1972 that said the state should maintain and improve a clean and helpful environment in montana for present and future generations. one that the state legislature tried to water down by adding several anti-climate messages, including analysis of greenhouse gas emissions or climate related impacts in environmental reviews. joining me now the lead plaintiff in the case, and one of the attorneys representing chief legal counsel at our

children's trust, julia olsen. thank you very much for being here. ricky, i want to start with you. it's one thing to say this isn't fair. it's one thing to demand change from people in positions of power, lawmakers, et cetera. it's another thing to say, hey, listen i'm going to do this myself, i'm going to take this suit directly to montana, and then to win. talk to me about what inspired you and what you think of this ruling. >> it's amazing being a part of this case because climate change is a big issue and a global issue, but being part of the case and working with people who care so much about us and our futures and having a decision maker make a ruling that says we are being impacted and our stories matter, i get a sense that our individual action dos

do make a difference, and even at the state or national and global level, it all helps. i feel really great about it. >> what is this ruling going to mean for montana, rikki? what's it going to do in. >> we're hoping it will encourage montana to transition to more renewable energy sources because as our experts testified to, we are able to transition and rely on renewable energies, and it's cheaper, and it will save energy and health costs and just protect our people in montana, and this case could really influence other cases and have a broader impact. >> how did the 16 of you get together, ages 5 through 22, how did you all come together to file the snut. >> we come from differenting -- different backgrounds and heard about the case in different ways, i heard about it from a

family friend. i reached out to them, and just in our first talk, they kind of told me what the case might be, and i wanted to join right away because it seemed just like the right thing to do, and knowing that we have constitutional rights such as to clean and help the environment, and montana is contributing to climate change significantly. and we're only one state, but we still need to take responsibility for our own actions. >> julia, jumping off from there, it's just one state. you said this is just the beginning. how does this ruling, how does this win transfer to potentially other states? >> this is a historic win for young people, we have been bringing cases against governments for 13 years here in the united states and globally. this is the first big win in the united states and what it means is the state of montana can no

longer authorize new fossil fuel development and ignore climate change. the court has said every ton of greenhouse gas emissions matters and is worsening. the physical and other harms to these young plaintiffs. it's a monumental decision, and it will have an influence in our other cases that are pending in places like hawaii and utah and virginia, and our big case, the giuliani case against the federal government. >> what is that big case? explain it. >> eight years ago, 21 youth fueled suit against the u.s. federal government saying that our fossil fuel energy system in this country is unconstitutional under the fifth amendment, which protects people's rights to life and liberty and safety, and we have been waiting for eight years to get to trial, and we finally have the green light. the biden administration is right to get the case dismissed again, like its predecessors, the trump administration and the biden administration, but we are

hoping to get to trial in that case in the spring as well and hold the u.s. government accountable for being the largest oil and gas producer in the world. >> are you worried that relies on vague language, whereas this was directed toward two specific roll backs to the state's constitution? >> katy, that's a really good question, and i'm not worried, and here's why. judge kathy sealy was really clear in her opinion that the right to a clean and helpful environment in the state of montana is essential to protecting other rights, like the right to life and liberty, health and safety, the dignity of these young people that without a stable climate system, all of the other rates, our lives depend on, would fall apart. >> julie olsen, rikki held, thank you as well. we appreciate it. congratulations for going out

and doing something and effecting the change you want to see in the world. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you so much. what donald trump learned from his first lawyer and one of his most important mentors, described as a snake and a scoundrel. >> the battle between new york city's mayor and the governor on how to house the migrants what governor hochul is telling mayor adams to do. mayor adams to do. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. have fun, sis! ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ )

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before donald trump's revolving door of attorneys and advisers, before rudy giuliani, and, during the red scare and the lavender scare, cohen was the ultimate dirty trickster, ruthless and unwavering, notorious for always being on the offense, never give in, never admit fault, do anything to win. attack, delay, deflect. sound familiar? joining me now is florida defense attorney john sail, john served as an assistant special prosecutor on the watergate team. he turned down the opportunity to join donald trump's defense team last year. so, roy cohn, john, tell me about your experiences with the man. >> when i was a young assistant u.s. attorney here in the southern district of new york, i had a couple of cases against him, and it was in his interest to be charming, which donald

trump can be charming when he wants to be. and he once told me he was humiliated by a lawyer named welch, and he said it's never going to happen again. roy cohn, a scoundrel, a snake. donald trump has said where's my roy cohn. he met roy in 1973, i have to tell you quickly, one month a night or two ago, i switched on rachel maddow, and she did a special on vice president agnew, the media is after me, the charges are false, i'll never resign. he resigned, and last night, lawrence o'brien, the basketball commissioner, lawrence o'donnell, his opening bit, i just wrote it down, big picture in the new york news, nixon

blasts false charges and he resigns. roy considered them losers, quitters, so he said never quit. he would go on the attack. donald trump is indicted four times, so the feds twice, the fed's conviction rate is north of 95%. so who on earth can win every case? because he's got to win every case. well, guess what, roy cohn was indicted by the feds three times. separate cases, unrelated. they involved obstruction, perjury, each time a jury found him not guilty, and donald trump saw that, and roy attacked, he attacked everyone. he attacked my boss, bob. he attacked bob's dad who was long deceased, who had been in fdr's cabinet. roy, take no prisoners, it's been reported that he said once to an associate at his firm, i get a new case, don't tell me anything about the law and the facts, tell me who the judge s meaning who can i influence, who

can i get to. roy cohn was ruthless, and i think donald trump learned from him. >> it sound like the playbook donald trump is using now, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, the judge in his dc case, the election interference case, judge chutkan has tried to say if you use your platform to do anything that might sully the case, intimidate witnesses, et cetera, i will speed up this case. are those sorts of warnings enough to make donald trump pull back? is there anything that she can do to get him to temper his language? >> i think that was very creative. i think it does not work. they're not connected. you don't punish somebody by speeding up the trial. he's entitled to the effective assistance of counsel. there's a lot of discovery. the trial date has to be set in an appropriate time. >> she's saying she doesn't want to tamper with the pool of jurors that might be out there or tamper with witnesses, and in order to keep them as safe and keep the process as safe as

possible, and as pure as possible, she's going to have to do it quicker. >> if it were one of my clients, she would lock them up. the head of ftx was out on bail. >> sam bankman-fried, he tampered with witnesses, his bail was revoked. he's in jail. i understand that could make him a martyr, that it could promote some violence, we can't be influenced by that. if he crosses the line -- >> what would you do if you were the judge? >> i'm glad i'm not, i think i would have to say, mr. trump, not president trump, not boss, not sir, you are a criminal defendant, you're out on release, here are the rules. one, i'm going to give you a warning one time, and one time only, and here are things you've done. if you do them again, i'm going to revoke your bond, and we're going to figure out a way and you're going to be in custody. just done do anymore. that's what i would do if i was the judge. >> don't you run the risk of making him a martyr for his

supporters. >> he's entitled to a presumption of innocence. professor isaacson from tulane said our democracy is on trial. we can't be intimidated. we have to take a stand or maybe we'll have a strong man government like hungary or the way israel is going. i think we simply have to say enough is enough. >> john sale it's great to have you in person and a great reminder that donald trump got this playbook from somebody. he had a mentor, and roy cohn was it, and to remind us how roy cohn addressed the multiple indictments against him and as you said, how he got off. appreciate it, sir. how an uber account under a fake name could be what it takes to impeach and then remove texas attorney general paxton. we will explain. move texas attorney general paxton. we will explain. [sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours.

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election. but there are new allegations first reported by the austin american statesman that could blow up that defense. the new filings contend that the public was unaware of the depth of paxton's behavior because his quote, denials have truths and down right lies enabled him to conceal the truth from the public. for more let's go to the investigative reporter at the austin american statesman who wrote that story, tony blatsky, great to have you. explain what you found and why it matters here. >> well, according to this trove of new documents we obtained yesterday, house managers, house impeachment managers contend that there are a number of allegations that the public was not aware of that texas voters did not know when they reelected ken paxton to a third term in november of 2022. and one of the most striking

allegations is that he used an uber account that was set up by an austin investor, a now indicted austin investor that paxton is accused of aiding during the fbi investigation, and according to these allegations that investor, his name is nate paul, set up an uber account under the name of dave p that ken paxton used over a period of months to travel from his home near downtown austin to an apartment complex in southwest austin to carry on an affair with a former capital staffer. the reason it is significant, though, is that prosecutors contend that it shows the relationship and the depth of the relationship between ken paxton and that investor, nate paul. >> yeah, i mean, it doesn't it's not illegal to have an affair, it might be unseemly, but it's

not illegal. the indicted investor, right? >> he was indicted earlier this year on a number of fraud charges in u.s. federal court. >> interestingly, ken paxton's wife is in the state senate so she'll have a vote on whether or not to oust remove this lieutenant governor from office? >> this is a real test of where the texas gop lies. whether or not enough texas republican senator are going to join hands and vote to oust ken paxton. keep in mind that procedurally to get to this point the impeachment articles went through the texas house, and were, frankly, overwhelmingly approved by both sides of the aisle. a number of republicans supported the move to push this case forward to the senate, but, again, the standard now is whether or not the senate will vote to not only potentially

remove ken paxton from office, but, katy, in addition ban him from ever serving texas citizens again. >> tony, thank you very much. appreciate you coming on. up next, what nbc news is learns whose idea it was to use buoys that all that came with it, all of the barbed wire to stop migrants from getting into the united states. (fan #1) there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about!

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new reporting today about the string of buoys texas placed in the rio grande to deter migrants from crossing into the united states. nbc news learned idea developed during the trump administration. the biden administration for its part is suing texas to have it removed. joining me homeland correspondent covering that angle and nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez

talking about migrants in new york city. explain the buoys and what we found out. >> 1,000-foot buoy barrier floating between eagle pass, texas, and mexico. a source of controversy especially earlier in the month two body were found and the biden administration sued text over it. turns out this idea, in fact, exact model using there in texas, katy, started in early 2020 under the trump administration. i spoke to the former chief of border patrol at that time rodney scott who said they did testings, had a contractor ready to go and decided this was the way they were going to deter migrants from crossing the ribber into texas. especially in area where is they couldn't build a border wall because crossing overprivate land. someone from his office, mike banks, from his office, fexz governor greg abbott's border czar decided to use the exact

model. put it in place and behind a lot of the consternteeno wire and they can use exact models, expand them, border-wide, or far as they'd like to go. reason they're using this exact model and standing behind it, katy, even though it leads to a big battle. >> a drama, i as you understand it, between governor and mayor? >> last day or so. a lawyer for governor kathy hochul, of course a democrat, really took aim at eric adams, also a democrat, basically said that the city has not been proactive enough dealing with a huge influx of migrants the city has seen over the last year. more than 100,000 migrants arrived in new york city.

58,000 in shelters now. video outside the roosevelt hotel several wreaks ago. iconic hotel in midtown manhattan. today merit tried to downplay the rift between he and the governor. take a live. >> when you look at the points that the governor raised, we want to sit down with her team and give them a real accounting so we can continue the partnership we've didn't. we've been working great together, we're going to continue to do that. her analysis is important but we know we have a clear explanation for each point raised. >> such a complex issue that democrats are trying to figure out here. you know over the past months mayor eric adams blasting the biden administration. now conflict in the city. >> a lot of housing. >> a lot. white house asked and point they've given more than $100 million in aid to new york city. when it comes to the city and state, a new, there is daylight between the two. appears to be, because the city is asking the state to pick up

more of the tab. want the state to pay for potentially two-thirds of this and that's a lot of money. city admits have to pay $12 billion. >> too many barriers allowing these people to come in, claim asylum and get jobs. they need, come in, start working. a lot of these problems would be solved, if you just allowed them to make money. >> not just mayor adams here. attorney general general, tish james making a case for expedited permits. spoke with a source at dhs. >> six-month waiting period. >> right. certain parole programs eligible to work right away. the question, what happens if they don't go through proper khams? ineligible to work. the mayor and local officials are really wanting this expedited work program. we've been speaking with several migrants at the roosevelt who want opportunity to work but no

easy answers. >> no one ever wants to pass an opportunity to get off the street and make money. congratulations, moving to washington, d.c. to be -- >> white house correspondent. glad to join the team. >> putting a lot of requests your way. hope you make space for the 3:00 p.m. hour. gabe, thank you. that does it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, there, everyone. 4:00 as we come on the air way shocking new portrait of all the ex president's men. we mean the disgraced wait to impeached now four times indicted ex-president donald trump. less than 72 hours sin district attorney fani willis lowered the proverbial boom on donald trump and 18 of his cronies and con sig gleearies in that