advisers on the stage, right there at the memorial, one of the speakers, the late congressman john lewis. tomorrow's march will be led by members of the king family, by civil rights leaders, including reverend al sharpton, and jon jsh jonathan green plat. and kamala harris sitting down with reverend al on politics nation here on msnbc. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports" "chris jansing reports" starts right now. >> good morning, i'm chris jansing, live, 19 charged and 19 booked. each defendant has officially been through the doors of the fulton county jailhouse, their fingers printed, their faced immortalized in a mug shot, and this is just the beginning. at this hour, one of the codefendant, harrison floyd is

still in jail after spending his first night behind bars after failing to negotiate bond. but this is the image that will go down in history. printed across front pages around the country, in atlanta, put simply as booked. the entire process took just 20 minutes for donald trump but will resonate for many years. >> terrible experience, i came in, i was treated very nicely. it is what it is, i took a mug shot, which i never heard the words mug shot at the wharton school of finance. and from newspapers to campaign merch, trump already fundraising off the iconic image, turning it into shirts, mugs, car decals, the punctuation mark on an explosive week. legal experts are raising serious questions about a bigger

constitutional question. is he really still eligible to hold office? we'll talk to one of those experts later in this hour. but i want to begin this hour with this. when donald trump was president, he had a secret service name, mogul. now, in the fulton county criminal system, he has a booking number, 2313827. and while last night marked the fourth time he surrendered on felony charges, it is still shocking to see a mug shot of the former president of the united states, a very visual and enduring symbol of the merrill he faces before leaving georgia he once again proclaimed his innocence. >> it's election interference. i want to thank you for being here. we did nothing wrong at all, and we have every right, every single right to challenge an election that we think is dishonest, that we think is very dishonest. >> trump returned to new jersey after posting $200,000 bond,

that the bail bondsman called the most secure he's ever executed in his life. >> it was a historical experience, one that i have never experienced before and probably never will begin in my life. a very serious experience, an experience we had to get it done right, and i think we did. and i just think it was just something that was quite extraordinary. >> i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin from outside the fulton county courthouse, from the jailhouse, nbc's vaughn hillyard, who is following the trump campaign for us. and former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade. the clock has officially run out in atlanta for the defendants to turn themselves in after what has been, and i think this is an understatement, a whirlwind week. what's the latest from there? >> well, chris you know that all 19 defendants have now been booked and released. the latest being steven lee who

spoke to our gabe gutierrez with his attorney after his release. steven lee told our folks that the reason that he was the last to post bond is he had trouble raising the money which has been a continuous theme this week. only harrison floyd remains in custody. he is entitled to a first appearance in the next 72 hours or 72 hours from his arrest, and then of course on monday, we're going to see twin hearings of major consequence to the when and where the election interference cases against donald trump are tried. one hearing here in fulton county, georgia, and federal court, where mark meadows will be the first person to argue that the case will be removed to federal court, and another in front of judge tania chutkan, set for a trial date. >> this week likely made things feel very real for the codefendants in georgia, even though some of them are smiling

in those mug shots. can the experience of being booked, finger printed, having their mug shots taken, their pictures like this all over the country prompt some soul searching or even, i don't know if it's available to them, deal making? >> yes, i think so, chris, when you go through an investigative process, prosecutors will try to work out deals with people who are lower level offenders, and i think we see that in this case, some of the fake electors were charged, and others are call unindicted coconspirators. other people are in a state of denying or they're defiant and they think they're going to beat this somehow. i think going through the indignity of being booked makes it real. many times it is right after this stage, the arrest stage that some of the defendants say, okay, we're ready to talk. >> a part of that feeling, vaughn, has to be that they're going into one of the most notorious jails arguably in the country. the former president told fox

news digital, i'm quoting him here, the mug shot was not a comfortable feeling but overall, what are you hearing from trump world today? >> reporter: donald trump called it a terrible experience. of course he has played the role of martyr over the course of the last years, and this summer, he has made it clear that he will embrace the reality that he is living through. he will embrace this mug shot. and he will use it to the best advantage that he possibly can. and that is why, literally minutes after the mug shot was released by the sheriff's office here in fulton county, immediately, he not only posted on his truth social account, but he also posted on twitter, now known as x for the first time since january 8th of 2021. posting the mug shot with the text saying he would never surrender, of course that's exactly what he did last night, but with the link to his campaign web site, where if you click on that web site, it takes you to a donation page, but also

a campaign store, and at that store, you can buy a white shirt with that booking photo. you can buy a black shirt with that booking photo. short sleeve, long sleeve, you can buy a beer koozie, a bumper stricker. as you see folks on the left trying to fund raise off of it, the donald trump campaign is trying to do just that as well. and for trump, you know, this may be very much of a go it alone. it's clear that these other defendants are going to potentially try to sever their cases from his own. for donald trump when he was asked in that interview last night whether he views him and the other 18 defendants as a team, he demured and suggested that he didn't know all the other defendants, and really was laying the ground work that he is going to try to take political advantage of this because clearly the legal one he's only in such little control

over. >> so when we talk about severing cases, lisa, let's talk a little more about what we're going to see on monday, the possibility of a case or more moving to federal court, but also what you're going to be watching in the days ahead. >> one of the things i'm going to be watching, chris, certainly is for anyone who comes forward and wants to have a plea hearing. the financial burden with defending yourself is enormous. we saw jenna ellis this week take to a christian go fund me site. she raised in excess of $95,000, but that doesn't go very far when you're a defendant in a rico case. i'm doing to be looking for signs of cooperation. in terms of monday and the hearings, not only am i interested in whether judge chutkan makes good on her promise to expedite the trial date if donald trump doesn't comply with his conditions of release, which include not intimidating witnesses, not talking to others who are defendants of the case about the facts of the case, but essentially not obstructing

justice further, and whether she thinks they have crossed that line, and looking to see what kind of evidence mark meadows put forward support his claim that this should be forward. and that his case poses a serious federal question, that's a real conundrum for mr. meadows, if he takes the stand, he is subjecting himself to cross-examination from the d.a.'s office, and of course anything he says on the witness stand in a removal hearing can be used against him in this fulton county proceeding or any others in which he faces criminal exposure, all in all, a number of big moving puzzle pieces, and manic monday as i have been calling it is going to be a huge day as donald trump might say, in terms of when and where this case and these cases ultimately get resolved. >> that clever phrasing got us all smiling. before manic monday, let's talk a little bit more, barbara, about these other 18 codefendants, and donald trump was asked last night in an interview if they're all in this

together. here's what he said. >> i look at some of the other people. now, i don't know a lot of those people. i don't know that i've even met a lot of those people. some i do, and their lives are destroyed by these maniacs, these are animals, vicious animals that have destroyed the lives of these people, and, greg, it's so sad. they don't have a lot of money. and some of them have almost nothing, they don't even know what they're being charged for. >> i have two questions coming out of that, is there anything you heard there that might spark the interest of judge chutkan as she's considering what to do, but also, do you hear him trying to make the argument, i don't even know some of these people, how could we be part of a conspiracy? >> i think so. one thing by showing sympathy for codefendants, he's encouraging them to testify,

stay on the team, this idea of i don't know these people, it probably sounds good in the court of public opinion. it's not a legal defense. it could very well be he doesn't know all of these people. that's the beauty of the rico charge. rico makes it a crime there's a criminal enterprise, you're all pulling for the same goal, even if it has a number of separate schemes as long as you're all part of the same enterprise which was to overturn the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. there's case law, chris, that says that the parties need not all know each other. i heard rudy giuliani say the same thing. it's probably the kind of thing that sounds pretty good to people who are unaware, as most of us are about the nuances of the rico statute. but it is not a valid defense. >> if it's not a valid defense, and we got the advantage of asking lisa this question first, but what else are you looking for, whether it's on monday or in the coming days, you think are going to give us a good indication of which way this

trial is going, barbara? >> oh, i'm sorry, i think this removal hearing is probably the most interesting thing we're going to see on monday. it's a place where we might learn more facts about the case. to be able to prevail to move this case to federal court, mark meadows, as lisa said, has the murder of showing he was acting within the scope of his authority as the chief of staff of the white house. to do that we're going to have to hear an awful lot more detail about, for example, what happened when they were trying to count the votes. that could be interesting. we're going to hear a decision from the judge about whether this goes to state or federal court. i think that's an important inflection point. >> do you have a sense of how quickly that will come, barbara? >> i would imagine the judge understands that time is of the essence.

i would suspect that in this case, this judge has acted with quite a bit of dispatch, in denying the motion to stay, the surrender of two of the defendants, and i would think within a week or so we probably would have the answer. we may not have it on monday. it may be the kind of thing the judge would reflect on it and issue a written opinion. >> lisa rubin, and vaughn hillyard, thank you both, barb will be back with us after the break. a break down is growing and complicated case, surrounding former president trump, and the 11th hour lawyer swap which has a legal analyst saying we may come to regret it. we're back in 60 seconds. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. ♪ shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want.

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in the coming weeks and a trial that could start as soon as 59 days from now, although all of that could change if the defendants succeed in their push to move the case to federal court as we just talked about. then there's special counsel jack smith's election interference case. that could go to trial in just under five months in washington, d.c. in the hush money case, march 25th, 2024. 56 days after that, the mar-a-lago classified documents case is set to go to trial in florida. that date, you see there, on our calendar, may 20th, another bigger question looms, will we actually see these cases go to trial or could a supreme court step in. nbc's gabe gutierrez is on the ground outside the fulton county jail for us. barbara mcquade is back with me. gabe, what's the latest you're hearing in the georgia case? >> reporter: good afternoon, you may have spoken about this in

your earlier segment. we are hearing from stephen lee, the last defendant who just walked out of court. his lawyers are conferring, whether they're going to ask for a speedy trial in this case as well. it brings up the point that you and barbara were just discussing, there's news that more of these defendants are now trying to move their cases to federal court in addition to mark meadows who has that hearing on monday. kathy blatham, gop chair in coffee county, accused of being a fake elector, her lawyers filed a motion to move her case into federal court. so that brings up a lot of questions about how this moves forward, and over the last couple of days, we have also heard the push from fani willis in response to one of former president trump's attorneys, kenneth chesebro asking for a speedy trial, asking for the trial date of october 23rd, that's highly unlikely, how are they going to be able to essentially herd cats and get

this case moving forward. a complicated case. we're hearing from defendants working this out internally, including the last defendant to turn himself in. lee, they're figuring things out at this point. unclear in the timetable. >> as we look at this calendar, barbara, and i'm going to ask them to put the shot up again. i mean, we have talked for months about how complicated this could end up being. as we are starting to move forward, does it get any less complicated, will it get settled fairly quickly. again, proposed dates that we're looking at and neighbor some deals that are going to be made between the people running the cases and the different jurisdictions, how do you see this playing out? >> i think it's going to get more complicated before it gets resolved. we're going to see defendants filing a variety of motions, with 19 of them named as defendants, i think we're going to see an awful lot of motions being filed, but a couple of

interesting facts about that, one is this motion to sever for speedy trial by kenneth chesebro, he may very well go to trial by himself in october, but one of the things that would do is, number one, it would provide a preview of all the evidence for the other defendants. it would also clog up space on the court's calendar. it would probably take a couple of months to try that case. while that case is being tried, it would delay the resolution of motions being filed. it could act as a delay in the ultimate trial date for everyone else. i think the other interesting thing to note is to the extent that there's an adverse ruling against the government, for example, that the case belongs in federal court and that the president is immune from prosecution, for example. the prosecution can appeal that to a higher court. perhaps all the way up to the supreme court. if it's an adverse ruling against the defendant, they cannot appeal those decisions until after the trial is completed. so as long as fani willis keeps winning motions, she can keep

pushing this case to trial without interlocutory appeals that could slow things down for months or years. >> essentially what that says is that if you're the defendant, you have to be found guilty before you can actually say that this was a harmful ruling to you, right? >> that's right, and the idea is to delay piecemeal, and you could cause the trial to halt and start and halt and start. the idea is we want to move the case along. we want finality. we want efficiency. once you get your trial, and then after a trial, if there is a conviction, that's when you can bring all of these other motions to challenge problems that you saw, legal errors that occurred throughout the duration of the litigation. >> let me go back to your comment about the move to sever by chesebro. for the other 18, then, if it gives them a preview of the

evidence, is that a big win for them, and is that exactly or one of the main reasons they want to try them together because you don't want to show your hand? >> yeah, i think it is a legal win for the defendants if chesebro goes first. i think it's potentially a political liability for donald trump if he goes first. here's why. so for legally, they're going to have to go through the case. they're going to have to prove much of this case, and prove that there was an enterprise, and that there were these predicate racketeering acts and so to show all of that, i think, is advantageous for the defendants to get that preview of what the evidence will be, to develop their strategy, try to lock witnesses into their statements, and so legall i think it is advantageous. politically, it's disadvantageous for donald trump who would like to avoid the day of reckoning until after the election. in georgia trials are televised,

they'll see the evidence brought in not just against chesebro but other members of the rico. i think it could be damaging, though he's not the defendant in trial on that case. >> i'm wondering if you think he has a strong case, what is the strongest argument for allowing him to do that, for chesebro? >> well, you have a right to a speedy trial, and so that is a right all defendants have. what's interesting is most often it's the defendant himself who wants more time because it takes time for lawyers to get prepared, in most cases. i also think there's the thought that as time goes by, witnesses memories may fade. evidence may become lost. sometimes witnesses die. all kinds of things can go wrong when there's a long passage of time. a defendant has a constitutional right to a speedy trial, and the reason we haven't that is so someone isn't charged with a crime, locked up and locked away for years and years without

getting their day in court. from time to time, defendants assert a right to a speedy trial. most famously, alaska senator ted stevens, when he was charged in a corruption case asserted his right to a speedy trial, he got his speedy trial, and although he was convicted, the case unravelled. there were a lot of discovery problems in the case that likely resulted from the government trying to move too quickly. one reason to assert a right to speedy trial is to try to catch the government flat footed. if you demand your speedy trial, maybe you can catch them when they're not quite as ready as they would like to be. >> barbara mcquade, always great to have you on the program, thank you. the mug shot seen around the world, the political power for both republicans and democrats, and its place in american history. coming up next hour, the showdown to watch, if trump's many legal demands limit his political focus, could there be

an opening for someone like vivek ramaswamy, and will trump turn on him if ramaswamy continues in the polls? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" oy nlon msnbc (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪

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delighted in the image as proof that no one is above the law and bolstering their argument that trump's unfit for office. but nbc news points out there may have been no one more delighted than those of former president trump's allies who quickly saw the picture not as a liability but as an asset, the kind of rallying cry that would help lock up trump's support and recapture the white house. michael steele,s former chair of the rnc, and msnbc analyst. it's been a while, yes it is. >> the trump campaign, fundraising, t-shirts, mugs, bumper stickers, and marjorie taylor greene shared an image on social media, this is a photo that will win the 2024 presidential election. what do you make of the risk and reward here? what's your analysis? >> the reward is the money because that's always the end game, so, you know, whether it's

a t-shirt or a mug or direct donations, it's always about how much can we scam off of this. i found it ironic that you had someone posting on there that those of you who look to take advantage of this mug shot and want to use it if you're a pac or some other organization without getting permission from donald trump, we're coming after you. dude, you know a mug shot is a public domain photo, right? you and i, chris, can take that mug shot and make as much money as we want off of it. right? >> you plotting as we speak, michael? >> of course. there will be a mug coming near you soon, but the reality of it is that's exactly right, that's the game. that's the end game for these folks. so there's that. the other side of it is how is the country absorbing this moment.

this mug shot is something i think that for a lot of americans was something that was necessary. it was needed. i've had a very good conversation with michael cohen who has some real concerns about the process, as did i, the motorcade. i mean, why the hell does he need an 80 motorcycle motorcade, you know, you're going to get processed as a criminal defendant. there's not another criminal defendant in the country who's going to have planes waiting for them, and black suvs, for what, you're not the current president. you're a former president who's been indicted four times. so there's that. and so when people see these types of images for someone who's dealing with 91 criminal charges against him, this mug shot becomes important because it says the process is actually acknowledging that this guy is no different than the rest of us, because my son didn't have a

motorcade. my daddy didn't get processed in 15 minutes. it was more like 15 hours. and he had to squat while he was in that room. donald trump didn't have to do that. so there's a lot wrapped up into that photo. it's iconic, not for the reasons trump and his ilk want to put out there, it's iconic because it says this justice system works for everyone regardless of your stature, and this mug shot shows you can be a former president and you too will have to take the photo. >> i am going to be interested to see what the polls show post photo but there's already a "politico" ipsos poll that has striking numbers not so good for the former president. a majority of americans believe trump should stand trial and before the 2024 election, including a third of republicans. about half of the country believes trump is guilty in the pending prosecutions. i wonder as you look at this and as you talk to folks, frankly,

michael, do you sense any voter movement after indictment number 4? >> no, i think it's hard. in fact, i appreciate the polling but i'm not putting stock and faith in the numbers right now. let's see where this shakes out over the next few weeks. let's see where voters are once the trial begins. it's one thing to answer a poll about whether or not you think donald trump is guilty. it's another to answer a poll whether or not you will vote for him. and i think we need to understand and appreciate that. you saw on that stage six out of eight candidates for president raised their hands and said if donald trump was a convicted felon, not charged, convicted that they would still stand by him and support him for the presidency of the united states. that is a reflection of something out in the country as well. it's not just those eight people on that stage. so i appreciate what the poll says on the surface, but it

doesn't necessarily get to the truth of how voters are going to behave when they're asked to pull that lever in the ballot box. >> michael steele, it's always fun and fascinating to have you on the program, sir. good luck with the mugs, we appreciate it. >> you too. up next, the message one freedom caucus member wants donald trump to send to his supporters right now. and congressional republicans plan to derail d.a. fani willis's criminal prosecution of trump. we've got all that coming up on "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. coming up on "chris jansing reports" only on nbmsc. (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia!

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on capitol hill republicans aren't talking about wednesday's gop primary debate or september's looming spending battle, no, the hot topic, of course, is donald trump's now fourth arrest and first official mug shot. it's clear at least some lawmakers understand how inflammatory that image and trump's rhetoric could prove in a moment like this. >> i think he absolutely needs to tell all americans to stand down to allow the judicial system to take its course. sending a very clear message, and also having a surrogate send a clear message that violence will not be tolerated as appropriate. >> joining me now, sahil kapur and geoff bennett, coanchor of

the pbs news hour. would you say that's the prevailing sentiment or an outlier? >> reporter: i would not say that's the prevailing sentiment on capitol hill. we have seen plenty of responses from trump's allies here on capitol hill. they're not calling for violence, but they are escalating their rhetoric as they try to rally around the former president in the wake of this arrest and this mug shot. there's senator marco rubio, of florida who says quote, those who decided to start using indictments, prosecutors and mug shots as weapons of a political campaign have unleashed a destructive new era in american politics and predicts this will become the norm. senator marsha backburn calls d.a. fani willis a leftist, her actions set a dangerous precedent in our nation. americans can see right through the sham indictment, unquote. elise stefanik says simply, america has turned into a banana republic in a tweet that also posts that mug shot, as you can see. and speaker mccarthy who says,

quote, why would joe biden use the power of government to go after trump his leading political opponent? is he afraid of losing to him. i should note that d.a. fani willis is a state prosecutor, and president biden has no director authority over her, nor is there any evidence he's involved in any of these prosecutions of donald trump. you'll notice themes, none of them are engaging with the substance of the indictments, they're not trying to poke holes in the evidence. they're not defending donald trump's comments on the merits, making broad claims that the indictment is bad, that it shouldn't have happened. on the democratic side, you would struggle to find any reaction there, largely staying silent. they don't want to add any fuel to the argument on the right that there's somehow a political motivation. the prevailing view among democrats is the law can do its job. >> i think a lot of people are trying to sort of get a handle on how this happens, how this kind of devotion continues. is it that these folks truly

believe it, they truly believe this is a persecution, not a prosecution, that they can't win when they run for reelection without pledging allegiance to trump or there's no concern about what happens if donald trump isn't the next president of the united states. what's motivating this? >> you know, it's all of the above, chris. and it's not just donald trump who was saying that he's a victim of persecution, it is the entire apparatus of the republican party to include elements of the rnc, to include, of course, donald trump's most ardent supporter, to include his rival, the folks running against him and have the greatest incentive to say what he did shows he's unfit for the highest office, and powerful republicans in congress to include the house oversight or house judiciary hearing, jim jordan, who's now scrutinizing the work. much the same way he scrutinized

the work of manhattan d.a. alvin brag. even before he initially brought that tape. and doing the same thing, targeting the special counsel, writing a letter to merrick garland, threatening to withhold for the fbi, which is particularly notable, given that republicans often use that as an attack line against democrats, democrats are in some way trying to defund the police, so all of that adds together. and the conservative media ecochamber, which buttresses all of donald trump's claims. >> geoff bennett, sahil kapur, good to see you, and thank you so much. up next, why my next guest says forget the trump trial, he's offering a constitutional legal theory that he believes may have already disqualified trump for office in 2024. we're going to talk about that on "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. t that on "chris jansing reports" only

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trump may not be entitled to be on the ballot. it came up, by the way, on the debate stage. >> over a year ago, i said that donald trump was morally disqualified from being president again as a result of what happened on january 6th. more people are understanding the importance of that, including conservative legal scholars who says he may be disqualified under the 14th amendment from being president again as a result of the insurrection. >> i want to bring in the author of that op-ed, ned folly, constitutional law at college of law. this is fascinating stuff. this is not a popular idea among republicans but it is a serious issue. legal experts are talking about it. help us to understand it. walk us through the argument. >> i think the key point is one of timing. this needs to be resolved before the election, not afterwards, if he ends up on the ballot in

november of next year, and then were he to win the electoral college, it would be a real crisis, if congress said afterwards it wouldn't be fair to the voters. this issue should be considered now, and get to the u.s. supreme court as quickly as possible for a definitive ruling one way or the other. >> what exactly does the 14th amendment have to say about this? >> sure, so this was adopted after the civil war to stop former confederates who betrayed the country. these are people who served in the u.s. government, you know, before the civil war, and the provision makes them ineligible or made them ineligible from going back into the government after the civil war. that's the disqualification, but it's not written solely about the civil war itself. it's written broadly in terms of an insurrection or rebellion. and so the argument today is

that the event of january 6th, you know, 2021, the attack on the capitol, is constitutionally an insurrection for purposes of that provision. and then the debate is whether trump engaged in activities that would put him as part of that insurrection. >> and then the question becomes how would it happen. you write in the "washington post," and i'm quoting here, if anyone states judiciary were to order trump off the ballot, it would require the supreme court to resolve the matter for the entire nation. i want to make sure i understand this. if a blue state, say, new york or california wanted to do this, are you suggesting that they could make a move to try to get this to happen? >> yes. there are a lot of procedural steps that are complicated and would have to go through a court of law, and there would have to be adequate due process for former president trump to claim that he's not within the scope of this provision.

but if any one state did this, it would go to the u.s. supreme court, and then you'd have a national ruling that would apply to all 50 states. no single state can unilaterally decide this for the entire nation. the u.s. supreme court would have the final word. but one state, you know, could trigger that process. >> but let me make sure i understand you, would he have to have been convicted? we're a country where you're innocent until proven guilty, and so can you say he took part in an insurrection unless he is legally convicted of that? >> that point is one point that it is clear. for example, there was an individual named john breckenridge who was vice president of the united states in 1860. he actually ran against lincoln in the important election of 1860. he was clearly disqualified by this provision because he joined the confederacy during the civil war. he got a pardon in terms of the

criminal process, so he couldn't be criminally prosecuted, but everybody understood that he was still disqualified by this separate constitutional provision. >> what do you think realistically the chances are that someone could make a move on this? >> well, it's already happening. there was a report today of a new lawsuit in florida brought by an individual. i don't know that that's going to be successful. so there is going to be legal skirmishing on this. the question is whether or not there's a procedure that is effective in getting the merits in front of the u.s. supreme court. that's more complicated procedurally. that depends on the content of state laws and whether the state laws allow their election officials like secretaries of state to pursue this. so it is possible that this could get derailed procedurally, but then that, again, would leave the nation exposed to this coming back afterwards with congress taking it up potentially, you know, after the election itself.

so, you know, there's going to be twists and turns, i think, in this story before it ends. >> fascinating stuff, ned foley, professor, thank you so much for coming on the program. appreciate it. >> thanks. still to come, the ongoing mystery surrounding the presumed death of yevgeny prigozhin and why we may never know the truth about this week's plane crash in russia. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. re watchi reports" only on msnbc is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight.

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today the kremlin is outright denying that russian president vladimir putin ordered a hit on mercenary chief yevgeny prigozhin out of revenge for his failed mutiny. prigozhin is presumed dead in a private jet crash with two u.s. officials telling nbc news that a leading theory is there was an explosive on board. nbc's richard engel has the details. >> reporter: the u.s. believes russian mercenary leader yevgeny prigozhin was likely on this plane when it suspiciously crashed outside of moscow on wednesday and that he is dead. british officials are calling it very likely. what exactly brought down the plane is still a mystery. two u.s. officials said intelligence gathered so far pointed to sabotage with one official saying a leader theory is that an explosive was placed on board, though they can't say with certainty. u.s. officials are convinced

this was no accident, but payback for prigozhin's mutiny two months ago when he dard to dared to lead a column of mercenaries toward moscow. while many suspect he ordered the hit, putin said russian investigators still need time to learn all the facts. he offered his sincere condolences and described prigozhin as a talented businessman, but who also made serious mistakes in his life. the pentagon says there's no indication the jet was hit by a surface-to-air missile, that the heat signature of a launch wasn't detected. russian aviation official says they have recovered the remains of ten people on board, some so disfigured, identification is different. >> whatever happened at 28,000 feet was catastrophic in nature and it basically knocked the airplane out of the sky. >> reporter: this morning, new images were posted on russian social media showing the wing that was ripped from the plane

in mid flight, reportedly found nearly two miles from the crash site. the kremlin has so far made no mention of prigozhin's mutiny, but the message seems clear without it. if you challenge putin, this is the price. richard engel, nbc news. we have a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports." let's get right to it. at this hour, former president donald trump talking about the mug shot seen around the world and that, quote, terrible 20 minutes he spent at a jail in georgia. what's next in his case? plus, the trial dates are piling up, prosecutors looking ahead to october, january, march, may. but can trump push them back? and one by one, the last of the 18 codefendants in georgia turned themselves in, including jeffrey clark.