tonight, we start this hour with breaking news out of jacksonville, florida, in what sheriff p k waters called a racially motivated attack. a white man in his twenties, fatally shot three people at $1 general store, in a predominantly black neighborhood of the city. at a press conference this evening, sheriff waters said the shooter lived with his

parents, and earlier told his father, by text message, to check his computer. the father discovered with the sheriff called, multiple manifestos, and immediately contacted the police. tragically though, it was too late. the shooting was already underway. >> the shooter killed three people, before turning a gun on himself, taking his own life. other than the three individuals killed, and the shooter himself, there are no additional people who suffered gunshot wounds. we are not identifying the deceased victims at this time. but i can tell you, that there are two male victims, and one female victim. all of the deceased victims are black. the shooter had offered several manifestos, one to his parents, one to the media, and one to federal agents. portions of these manifestos detailed the shooter's disgusting ideology of hate. plainly put, this shooting was racially motivated, and he hated black people. >> quote, he hated black people. keep in mind, this attack,

which the fbi is now currently investigating as a hate crime, took place on the 16th anniversary of the march on washington. let's discuss what this means for our country, with brittany cunningham, msnbc political analyst, and former democratic senator barbara -- of california. also with us, former fbi agent rob d'amico. brittani, i'll start with you. we saw the pictures, it's reported that swastikas were drawn on the gun that he used. the sheriff has said he quote, hated black people. as i mentioned, this is happening on the same day as the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. your reaction, to this tragedy this evening? >> i continue to be heartbroken by the circumstances in which we find ourselves. 60 years later, i'm also reminded that just two weeks after the 1963 march on washington, there was the bombing at the 16th street

baptist church, that killed four little black girls. the intention of progress, and the perpetuation of freedom for marginalized people, has always engendered backlash in this country. and sadly, we are not in a different circumstance. i think that is really important for us to recognize that yes, this happened in florida, and there is plenty to say about the state of florida at this moment. and the state of affairs, when it comes to ensuring that all people are treated with dignity in that state. but i think it would be wrong to say that this is simply a republican problem. this is an issue of white supremacy, and that's an american problem. >> senator -- your reaction to the news this evening, that we are once again not just heartbroken by an act of gun violence, but yet again racially motivated violence against a black community, as professor eddie clouded junior called it, part of the apparatus of hate in this country. >> it's a crime of hate.

it's a tragic day, again, for our country. and one of the things that one, of the messages i want to get out here is that, this just doesn't happen randomly now. what we see is sort of a perfect storm of these kind of hate crimes. we see a grievance, that turns into hatred. it's fueled, it's fueled by white supremacy. it's fueled by politicians who embrace that. and, easy access to guns. so, when you have the rhetoric that we hear. i was just in the other day desantis, what's he gonna do in his first day in office, he says as president. when i was coming up in politics, both parties and candidates would say, we're going to work for jobs, we're gonna work for equality and so on. no, he says he's going to slit the throats of port bureaucrats

on day one,. and trump says never, surrender fight like heck. and people around this country saying, women are killing babies, and the gay community is doing, this and minorities are taking your jobs, and jews will not replace us. we better wake up, america. this is an american problem, and we, not to simplify things, but we've got to vote out the people who are feeling this hate, or who do nothing, because they are scared of the nra or donald trump, or whomever. it is time to really stand up, and fight for this country in a right way. >> what we are about, overzealous to be. about >> rob, the authorities said they've gathered quite a lot of evidence already, because of this manifesto, communication with the parents, and obviously reena learn more about that in the coming hours and days. we are already hearing the suspect sent out those manifestos, one to his family, one to the media, went to federal agents. my question, and kind of a central theme that i kind of

come back to is, do we start considering these attacks as terrorism? i mean, there is clearly an ideology at play here. and we are so reluctant sometimes in the country to call this what it is, which is white terrorism. would that change our collective response as a country, if we addressed this for what it is, as a form of domestic white terrorism, the way that we responded immobilized our entire government after 9/11 to deal with foreign terrorism? >> i think you do have to look at domestic terrorism. there are no laws, there's international terrorism, we've talked about that, january 6th has brought that up, that there is no laws for. that there is a couple things that happened here. one, he was -- about six years ago. so somehow, someone -- got a hold of weapons. you talk about terrorism. last time i saw weapons that had ideology carved into them, was actually in afghanistan, with al-qaeda. and they had enough hatred for

us that they would do that with their weapons, and he had the swastika on his. and i think you have a point there. i think you have to look at the first amendment, and you have to look at the freedoms, and then you have to look at really defining characters of would make this a terrorist crime. but it's already a crime under the federal guidelines, so all of the victims will get all of the things that come to them on a services basis, which is good. because like you said, the evidence is already there, that this was a hate crime. >> britney, your thoughts on that. i mean, do you think we needs tougher statutes to go after this? i think on one hand, you're gonna get those who come out and say, this guy was mentally disturbed, we don't know how he was radicalized, perhaps he was radicalized online, or perhaps it was inspired by other shooters. but when you look at the frequency of these attacks, when you look at just the targets of these attacks, it's undeniable that we are seeing an increase in white supremacy

and extremism, that is anything, sorry, that is not anything but terrorism. >> i couldn't agree with you more. and i do believe that terrorism, like domestic terrorism, is the proper terminology for it. it should be the proper legal category for it. and the punishment should follow, if this is going to be the system that we are all under, in america. look, you don't have to be a member of a particular organization, a distinct organization, in order to pursue and promote a distinct ideology, all the way through to the point of fatalities. and this is exactly what happened. it is designed to ensure that people, who are not embraced by that ideology, are too scared to live, are too scared to function, are too scared to take our rightful place in the world. i don't know any other way to define terror, and that is terror that black people have faced in this country since we have been brought to these shores. i want to say one of the thing

though, because i think it's important that, again, we draw some distinctions here. it is clear that we can draw some clear connections to what's been happening in florida. that is the state with the second most banned books in the country. the governor insists that we teach children that slavery was good. he likes to punctuate his stump speeches for president with the idea that florida is the place where woke goes to die. and he knows, as well as i do, that plenty people use woke as a euphemism for black folks. and, while desantis and trump, and so many others are emboldening that behavior, there was no republican governor in new york, when a white gunman opened fire in a tops grocery store, in buffalo new york. there was no white mayor in new york city, when jordan neely was choked to death, simply for being black and hungry, and inconvenient, and having the audacity to ask for help. we have to recognize that white supremacy is an american problem. and if, if, we continue to only

blame one political party, one state, or one person for that, the message that is clear to black folks like me, is that white people who have the unique position and power to eradicate a culture and a system that was designed to benefit them, will not do anything, because they are busy blaming somebody else. and what that tells me is that my terror will continue. this is not just a republican problem, it should be every white person's problem, who wants to make sure that they are not associated with perpetuating this kind of culture, casually, or as we see tonight, violently. >> rob, to pick up on that point, how significant is it that the fbi is already investigating this as a hate crime? what does that mean, in terms of the resources that federal investigators might mobilize in trying to i guess, not solve, this put understand would lead him to this. whether they're rather any other accomplices that --

>> yeah, it opens up a lot of resources. the biggest one, is computer forensics. so they're going to start going back and looking at, what was a trigger on this, or their conspirators. were there guys that planned alone, or their basements, -- this guy in his parents basement getting his page -- or was he talking to people, i think his father got the texts, but immediately called the police. but they are going to start looking at that. is there a conspiracy out there that someone aided and abetted him, did someone fuel him, what were the triggers? and then, look back on it as, what could have been done better? what was something that maybe we could have caught beforehand. again, he was -- he had weapons, how did he get those. did he purchase them himself, where they bought by the family, and then given to them, which could come out in other things. so, the locals have good investigative teams, it's just

that the federal can bring a whole bunch of other things that are on the computer forensics side, and start looking at what he was going across -- >> all right, rob d'amico, thank you so much. brittani -- senator -- please stick around, to talk to you just a little bit later on on the show. when we come back after the break, the ringleader, trump's former white house chief of staff mark meadows, was instrumental in the administration's election subversion efforts. and now, his central role has been laid bare by fani willis. by fani willis. businesses need 5g solutions today.

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ringleader of republican election subversion efforts, and donald trump is one of those leaders is no doubt. but rudy giuliani and sidney powell, certainly were public faces of these efforts as well. but there is one man that has flown under the radar in both the federal, and state cases. and that is, until now, mark meadows, donald trump's former white house chief of staff. >> it's fair to say that you know, mark was a ringleader of much of the events that happened around january 6th, he was somebody who was the president sought q fought fine additional attorneys, who gave advice different in the white house counsel. mark was central to pulling together many of those who were i think whispering falsehoods into the presidents ear. >> now, thanks to fani willis's sprawling indictment, we have a full understanding of just how mark meadows looked to subvert

our small d democratic processes. according to filings from willis's office, meadows acknowledged that he had attended a meeting at the white house on december 21st, 2020 with trump. members of congress, and others to discuss allegations of voter fraud in that state. and the next day, meadows made a subscribe -- to coffee county -- to attempt to observe an election audit that was in progress. he was told by local officials that he was not authorized to be in the room. and after he was blocked, meadows struck up a conversation with georgia's deputy secretary of state's office, office chief investigator, excuse me, francis watson, and got her phone number. now to watson's shock, the next day, trump called, and told her that when the right answer comes out, you will be praised. as the new york times reports, prosecutors have said that a special grand jury that investigated the matter had evidence showing that mr. meadows had set up another notable call. the recorded conversation on january 2nd, 2021, in which mr.

trump can be heard telling mr. raffensperger that he wanted to find 11,000, 780 votes, that would allow him to win in georgia. and in 2021, during the january 6th committee's hearing, it was revealed that meadows had repeatedly pushed the justice department to conduct investigations, based on trump's unfounded conspiracies about the election. since trump's efforts failed, mark meadows has been doing a delicate dance. as the new york times explains, meadows try to navigate the legal and political peril of the moment, seeking to avoid being charged himself, while also sidestepping the career risks of being seen as cooperating with what his republican allies had cast as a partisan persecution, of the former president. but meadows couldn't avoid being charged in georgia. and this week, a federal judge denied his request to extend his deadline to surrender to state authorities.

this is just the beginning of meadows is -- . he filed court documents this week, seeking to move his case to a federal court. and moving a case to a federal court could result in a more favorable jury pool, and it would almost certainly mean no cameras in the courtroom. in less than 48 hours, a hearing will be held on that matter. but fani willis is gearing up for a fight. she has subpoenaed both brad raffensperger and frances watson to testify, about that hearing. joining me now are chris -- offer of the fight of his life, inside joe biden's white house. tim mulvaney, former communications director for the january six committee. and jessica levinson, professor at loyola law school, and an msnbc columnist. it's great to have all three of you with us. chris, i'll start with you, do you agree with marc short, that meadows should be viewed as a, quote, ringleader of january 6th, and trump's election schemes? >> yeah, i don't think there's any question about it. if you look at what, if you look at the record here, there's just no question that

whatever the jury's verdict here ultimately, histories verdict is already clear. i think that mark meadows will be seen as the primary enabler of a rogue president, who tried to overthrow american democracy. and i think his argument that, he should have his case moved to federal court, is really absurd. i mean, i am not a lawyer. and i will not defer to others but i say this for well. and no white house chief of staff has any business doing what mark meadows was doing, in the state of georgia, after the 2020 election, there's nothing in the job description of white house chief of staff, that says you can go barging into a private audit of votes in the state, much less orchestrate,

and ordinary mafia style shakedown of the state official for 11,000 -- as meadows did, as -- so, i hope he's got a better argument. because being white house chief of staff does not make any of this okay. and jessica, meadows and his attorneys will present an argument on monday, that the case against him in fulton county should be moved to federal court, do you think they have a strong argument? >> not a strong one, they have an argument. but as i think you just heard, you would have to buy the argument that mark meadows was acting under color of federal law. essentially, that this was part of this job description, that it was part of his official duties. and i think it's very easy for a federal judge to say, there is a lot that falls within a chief of staff duties. and a lot of things that chief of staff does every day, that you might not envision as being

part of that job description. but, trying to overturn a presidential election is probably not one of them. i think that's part of the reason why there was no stay, and mark meadows was immediately booked, why a judge said no, we are not waiting to hear from the federal court. and i think it's part of the reasons why ultimately, i suspect that this effort will not be successful. it's a smart effort, it makes sense for his attorney to try, but i don't think it will work. >> tim, you probably saw the playbook from january 6th. i mean, is meadows using the streams the same strategy did with the january six committee, when he argued that he acted within his official duties as a government employee? >> it feels like déjà vu. we remember from the january six committee that mark meadows cooperated, up until the point where he didn't cooperate. and, the information he provided, to the select committee, most notably that trove of text messages, nearly 4000 text messages, demonstrated his central city

to this plot to overturn the election, and block the transfer of power. we know that there were lawmakers, there were other influential individuals, texting him advice on how to stop the transfer of power going forward. and that was up until he decide to no longer cooperate, and made essentially the same argument he is making now. is pat -- were part of his official responsibilities. i worked for the u.s. government for 15 years. and, the first thing that he too knows ethics trainings was, you don't do politics while you are on the u.s. government clock. mr. meadows was a member of congress, he had a staff, he was chief of staff, he understands that. it seems that he is doing the same thing here that he tried to do with the january 6th select committee, which is to try to run out the clock, and hope that he gets a better outcome. >> so let me pick up on that point, christopher, that you just heard. tell me what you know about mark meadows the man.

in grgia? i >> think that will become increasingly difficult, as both of these cases progress. and certainly, i think a lot of mark meadows's strategy was to try and give a little bit, and then delay, and basically wait for a judge and or prosecutor to force his hand. we also know that at times, he did i believe say, you know what i'm going to assert my right against south incrimination. so i think what you might need to see more of that, where mark meadows would understand, because i think he will all commit lee respect his attorney's advice, that he will understand that there are things that he does need to respond to. and to the extent that he thinks he is putting himself in additional criminal hot water, then he can try to assert his fifth amendment right against self incrimination. but, we are further along, again in both cases, so it is more difficult to try to thread that needle, to try to kind of dance on both sides. now politically, certainly he can. but legally, that's becoming

increasingly difficult. >> and tim, what are your thoughts on that, since you have some insight into his thinking, and the way he operated? is this guy a trump loyalist through and through, or do you think at some point, now that he is a co defendant, he will think in his self interest, and perhaps cooperate with either jack smith or fani willis? >> well, i don't put myself inside his head. but, i will tell you, the vast majority of the witnesses who provided information in testimony in the select committee did so, because they thought it was the right thing. they came forward, they wanted to assist the investigation, and they wanted to help us uncover the facts. mark meadows began to cooperate, and then he stopped, i suddenly, and i won't try to judge why. but the political pressure was increasing. and when he did so, the house of representatives found him in criminal contempt of congress. so, it seems that his motivations, if i were to guess,

maybe weren't quite the same as all those other witnesses who came forward to help us get to the facts. >> all right, and we will certainly find out more about these motivations in the weeks ahead, as this gets under. >> can i just add that i think it's too late for mark meadows to rewrite his place in history. and whatever the jury verdict may be, as i said before, i think the defining image of mark meadows is going to be the one that was painted by cassidy hutchinson, in her testimony before the committee. of a white house chief of staff, who is hiding in his office, sitting on his couch, scrolling through his phone, as a violent mob launched an assault on the capitol, chanting hang mike pence. sadly, i think that's going to be his defining image. >> yeah, i think you're absolutely right about that. that is certainly how he will be remembered throughout all of this. chris -- , tim mulvey, and jessica levinson, thank you to the three of you, greatly appreciate your time and insights this evening. ahead, a rule of law means

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stage, the republican party demonstrated that, at its core, it is now an anti constitutional party, opposed to any true adherence to the rule of law in america. six of the eight republican presidential candidates raised their hands to say that they would support donald trump, as their parties nominee, even if he is convicted. in the meanwhile, trump, who did not attend the debate, pushed the republican party to further extremes, in an interview with tucker carlson. when asked if the u.s. is headed towards open conflict, trump responded, quote, i don't know. i can say this, there is a level of passion that i've never seen. there's a level of hatred that i've never seen. and that's probably a bad combination. he also defended the mob behind the violent insurrection, calling january 6th a day of, quote, love and unity.

brittani pac-man cunningham and barbara -- are both with me still. i'll start with you senator -- chris, christy was the only candidate to defend mike pence. and he was booed for his critical comments against trump. what does this tell us, about the republican candidates priorities, and voters priorities right now? >> what it told me about these candidates is there a bunch of cowards. and i know that it was stated earlier, that there's not much difference between republicans and democrats. and i would really argue that hard. i mean, it's unbelievable to me that, if you look at any of these indictments, particularly fani willis's indictment, but the others as well, and you see that citizens of this country, said that donald trump was responsible for boosting and overturning of our election,

which is undermining our democracy. and yet, none of them had the courage of the ordinary person. it's really frightening to me. and i will say this, when i came up, i was born a long time ago, and went through the civil rights movement. and, we had bad democrats, and bad democrats, and great republicans. who walked with the marchers. and some got killed, who were not black, tragic. but, we won rights, and now we have a full blown assault on our constitution, on our democracy, but by a political party that was once the party of lincoln. so, it is a moment. and i think that was a brutal moment for the country, to see the cowards on that stage. sad. >> yes sad indeed, perhaps not surprising, given what we've

seen over the last couple years. i mean brittani, why were there no attempts by trump's other rivals, to openly criticize him. and when they did, it was very lukewarm? hadn't been really as serious as it could have been. >> i mean, well let's be clear. even the ones who criticized him raised their hands, saying that they would support him if he was the party's nominee, even if he was convicted in georgia and any of the other number of indictments that he has. i want to be really clear, there are very distinct and important differences between the parties. there are some things, sadly, that are fully american, and white supremacy is one of them. but the gop debate stage certainly punctuated all of the ways in which this party has gone completely off the rails, gone beyond the simple racism and dizziness phobia and massage any that they were already known for, and gone to a place of clear criminality. it doesn't matter who is the nominee, it doesn't matter what they stand for, it does not

matter the kind of violence that they stood on january 6th or any other time. if they are the nominee the republicans are showing that they're willing to fall in line, and that debate stage was a sad, unfortunate but very clear example of that. >> senator boxer, trump's interview with tucker carlson was ominous, to say the least. i mean, tucker carlson zeroed in on the possibility of political violence. what do you make of that conversation, and trump's response? i mean, political violence, unfortunately, has been a hallmark in this country of politics, for a very long time. and yet, here we are, the former president on tucker carlson, stoking it yet again. >> well, as we said in the last segment, we are in a very rough, terrible patch in our country. because you have these politics of grievance, and you marry that up with turning it into hatred, and then the availability of guns. in the rhetoric that we hear, and that's part of it. and all i could say is, i have

a deep hope in my heart that the independents of this country, the ones who don't frankly like either party, will stand up with those in both parties, who want to get back to some sense of what our country is supposed to be about. even though we've never gotten there, as barack obama says, we have to work every day for a more perfect union. but we need to do that all together. and we have to turn our backs on this politics of division, and, fear and hatred and grievance, and white supremacy. and it's coming to ahead in this next election, and we better be prepared to stand up and cast those votes, and be brave about it. the last point i would make, when i look at ruby freeman, to me she's the rosa parks of democracy. this woman, what she went

through for. and i think when we look at this criminal conspiracy, as fani willis will show, america is going to be horrified at what happened to this woman, led by america's mayor gone bad, rudy giuliani, what she and her daughter went through, just doing their jobs, and such bravery. i think that one could hit the soul of america, and get us back to where we need to be. >> yes, i've said it before and i'll say it again, this next year as one can be one the most defining years in american history. everything is at stake, and we can't lose sight of that over the next year. senator barbara boxer, and brittany -- cunningham, thank you to the both of you, greatly appreciate your time and your insights tonight. >> after a quick break, comedian matt -- will join me with his take. look who's here folks, look who's here. he's going to give us his take. >> good to see you bud. >> you as well. >> thanks for having me. >> great to have you. stick around.

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enjoy the go with charmin. all right, forgive us for picking the obvious choice here, but our worst of the week has to go to the entire 2024 republican field, and the one person we just had to speak with about this debate, disaster. friend of the show matt fred. matt, great to see you but, welcome back. >> i am so excited. >> let's just tell our viewers that i think we reached out to a month ago, when we knew that the debate was happening, and we were like, if there's one person we need to speak to about this, it's got to be you. >> yeah, you knew some crazy stuff was about to go down. call it intuition, journalistic. >> but i've got to ask you, so donald trump did not appear in the debate. what do you think he was thinking watching. >> excuse me, you are such a nasty guy. -- after the mugshot, which is so bad what you're doing. this is msnbc, they lie like dogs, you got asked them, daylight like dogs. but i will tell you, you don't

do a debate when you're up by 16 points, 16 points you. don't debate these people, these clowns, they're horrible people. and you would know that if you watch my tucker, which is a great conversation. there is no point in debating, against rob desanctimonious, and vocalists just a nasty guy. so i like him probably but, what do they think of my show. but nikki haley, who is a witch, and mike pence, mike pence is just failing. so, you don't do that, you don't do that. what a bad guy. >> [laughter] >> you're a terrible person. >> [laughter] you're in character. >> i don't know how to be honest with you, that's the problem. so you talk about ron desantis. ron desantis, so he will said he was the real loser in this debate, what do you think he was thinking, throughout all this? >> yeah i mean we'll look. first of all, here's what matters most, okay. when i become the president, come high noon, on january 20th, i take the oath of office. you don't coddle someone like fauci, you sent him that, and you say anthony, you are fired.

i will not let you down. [laughter] >> okay that was ron's response. i just want to know what was going on with when he was smiling, was it like a botox. it was the most forced smile. >> he is a politician that never has grown into a natural role. he doesn't do retail politics well, he doesn't have the kind of comfortable level of just moving his hands. >> his hands are like uncomfortable. >> he puts his hands on his waist. >> sure you know. it's just, what he does as you know, he kind of moves his arms up in the same accordion style motion, right. his voice is more back. here he is like trump without personality, is what he is. >> yeah exactly. well let's talk about the breakout star according to some, as you just called him, the book. but vivek ramaswamy. and also, stealing a line from barack obama, not very original. >> well, i'm working on the the vivek. but, he's just, i can't wait

for him to announce his new campaign slogan. he's just like, well first of all, some of you might have been wondering why i'm here tonight. and that is because, i'm just a skinny out with a funny last name, who is eager to share my new campaign slogan. yes we can. i invented that. [laughter] i think obama would be upset, actually, at vivek. the victim of stormy melania trump that, full on just taking his moves. >> is it hard for you to study these guys, because they all have such distinct characteristics, that for you which is so easy to pick up on? >> i mean honestly, a lot of them are just in my mind so much. >> are you traumatized, when you have to sit there? >> when i see desantis try to smile, that's is traumatizing. or mcconnell freezing [laughter] . no honestly >> what do you do, do you just take a cold shower, and be like i've got to wash this off of me. >> no honestly, these guys are like actress, basically. it's like i'm watching a movie, which i know is a frightening thing to say, because this is politics, and they have

dramatic impacts on our lives. but, it's entertainment, honestly, as horrible as it is to say. but i feel disgusting. >> one person that we have not heard from this week, mitch mcconnell. i would love to know what mitch mcconnell thought of the. [laughter] >> yeah. what was your question? mitch, what did you think of the republican field? >> well, that's for nothing, more party as presented a slew of, interesting candidates who, i look forward to seeing potentially challenge so [laughter] is this the part we have that idea. long >> i think. so [laughter] i'm making a real call back to the mcconnell phrase. >> joking aside for a moment. >> yes please. and >> i know that's kind of hard. but genuinely, when you look at the field of the republican party, is there anyone out

there that you think you could not do? vote >> vocally, or just as an impression? >> as an impression. nikki haley would be really tough to do. chris christie is a little like, there is not much there to pick apart. but i mean, desantis just kind of has that nasal thing. i mean, i wish george santos was running. >> do you think it was watching that debate thinking, i can talk my way out of. it >> he wants to get in on this. but no, there's just so many of these crazy figures, it's just wild. i mean it's overwhelming honestly, i don't know what to do with myself. it's like the academy awards of politics. >> i saw your mugshot impression of donald trump. do you want to give us a little bit of. a howdy thing that went inside the jail house, do you think there were like blue steel? >> well first of what you're doing is another classic msnbc, i will tell you that, they're locking out their political opponents, and you know some might say that i am the prigozhin of the united states. and that [laughter]

biden is the putin, because next thing you, know they're gonna come for me like that. and it's very dangerous, you know, because no one's talking about locking up hunter biden and the burisma laptop. [laughter] so -- like jamaican. and frankly, it's just horrible. so, they're going to put me by boris, and it's just very unfair, china. very unfair. >> you think they're gonna do that to you in? china >> i think potentially, they would do that, potentially she would do that. you know, they've a lot of respect for me. tremendous respect. >> how do you think it's going to play out with trump in the campaign, and the indictments? i mean you think he is becoming more and more unhinged when you're looking at the social media posts, he's going after the prosecutors, and the judges. but then he is going never surrender, and selling mugs. >> i think he is definitely becoming more unhinged, which is kind of hard to imagine, honestly. he just had the whole affair, he's marketing his mugshot, which obviously we knew he would do. and then obviously the whole tucker interview, where they range from everything from biden's skinny legs to if

epstein killed himself, the issues that matter in this country. so it appeared that he has progressively losing his mind. but i'll be very interested to see how he will form, if he is behind partners, which it seemed like he will be, as the days go. by [laughter] the basement, or behind bars. >> do you think tucker carlson [laughter] do you think tucker carlson would -- >> will first of all, i really resent the setup of the question. [laughter] you know first of all, i think we should really get down to the important questions such as, if epstein did kill cancel, was schoolbook up with this it make legs like he is it's. this -- i'm sorry, funniest of one of america's attention, what is you have tucker's laugh? i mean, i'm 25 years, old i've never had a prostate exam, but i imagine that's how i'm for effect. i have no idea, i can't explain

it, i'm glad that we don't have to hear as much of it anymore,. that >> fred, always good to see my friends. i don't know, you are the best. >> thank you for having. me >> we always appreciate you coming on, i'm sure we're gonna find a lot more times to have you. one >> i love you, man you're amazing. so thanks for having me. >> i know you have a new sketch. >> yet no, and come see me on the. road >> of course, yeah. >> not friend.com. find the dates. we will follow you on instagram, follow you on tiktok, everywhere. and >> truth social. >> and truth social. huge, i'm like the charlie d'amelio of the alt-right you know, i'm in here i'm number two after donald trump. >> good to see my friend, thank you, don go anywhere, we've got more in just a moment. more in just a moment. they choose t-mobile for business. mlb partners with t-mobile to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. aaa relies on t-mobile's network to stay connected nationwide, so they can help get their members back on the road.

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that means your skin still feels healthy and smooth now... now... ...and now too. get healthier, smoother feeling skin all day. a quick programming note for you, tomorrow, msnbc films presents the latest installment of the turning point documentary series. the film follows the harrowing journey of the young woman on afghanistan's national soccer team, who fled taliban control, after the u.s. troop withdrawal two years ago. there >> the law [speaking in a non-english language]

[speaking in a non-english language] [speaking in a non-english language] >> watch, i honda, sunday at ten pm eastern, we'll be streaming on peacock. and thank you for making the time for us, make sure to come back tomorrow night, nine eastern on msnbc. i'll be joined with joyce vance, christina greer, and carlos curbelo, about a growing crisis for donald trump, and whether he is ineligible to run for the presidency, under the 14th amendment. even some conservative legal scholars are now making that case. until then, i'm -- in new york, have a good night. have a good night there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is?

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