tv Velshi MSNBC August 27, 2023 7:00am-8:01am PDT
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60 years ago tomorrow in front of the lincoln memorial in washington d.c., dr. martin luther king delivered his famous i have a dream speech. quote, i have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character, and quote. yesterday, three black americans were murdered simply because of the color of their skin. law enforcement is investigating yesterday's shooting at dollar general in jacksonville, florida as a hate crime. the three victims, two men and one woman, were all black. the gunman was way. the sheriff of jacksonville says the shooter, quote, hated black people, end quote, and left a manifesto detailing his disgusting ideology of hate, end quote. he used a handgun and as is always the case these days an ar-15 style rifle marked with swastikas. earlier this morning, my msnbc colleague katie fang spoke with the florida state senator tracy davis whose district includes jacksonville. >> as we are processing it, i
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wake up today and the only thing i can say is those three people were gunned down because they were black. we are a 2023. we are dealing with racial issues like this. it is devastating. it is absolutely devastating. simply knowing that you are targeted because of the color of your skin. >> joining me now from jacksonville's and receives marissa parra. what is the latest on the investigation and how the community is coping with this? >> well, ali, just a couple of things here. you can imagine it is a heavy morning here in jacksonville. the president of the united states has been briefed on this as well as the attorney general merrick garland. we know this is being investigated as a hate crime. the federal civil rights investigation has been opened.
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some of what you mentioned from of the sheriff's office here in jacksonville, some of those details have been so disturbing to people who live around here. we are talking about something that was racially motivated and clearly planned out. just on the other side of the camera, we are in a residential neighborhood. it's predominantly black. many of the people i have spoken to this morning say that this is the dollar general that they frequently go to. in fact, one of them claims that they know one of the victims here who have not been publicly identified, by the way. we want to get to some of those details coming from the sheriff's office. you mentioned the swastikas on the gun. you mentioned the racist messages written out in several different places, ali. take a listen to some of what we are learning about the shooter himself. >> he targeted a certain group of people, and that's what people. that's what he said he wanted to kill. that is very clear. i don't know about the targets or specific, but i know that any member of that race, at that time was in danger. >> a couple of things here.
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we understand that the shooter, who also has not yet been publicly identified, was involved in 2017. for those who are not from florida, florida is baker act allows for families and individuals who are undergoing emergency mental health services to receive temporary detention for upwards of 72 hours. we don't have more details on that. these are things that we are looking into. we understand that the shooter made an appearance at a nearby historically black college. in terms of the victims, those individuals have not been publicly identified. we know that there are two men, one woman, and all of them were located here at the dollar general. no one at that campus was hurt, ali. there are a lot of questions on the timing, not just a march on washington, but five years ago to the day, the shooting happened on the five year anniversary of another shooting by a lone gunman here in jacksonville. a lot of questions here about what went down and on who those
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three victims were. we know that there will be a prayer vigil later this evening at 5:30. >> marissa, thanks for your reporting. we appreciate it. we will be back later. marissa power and jacksonville, florida. i'm joined by the activist brittany cunningham. she's an msnbc contributor and the vice president of social impact at b.e.t. and the founder of the social impact firm love and power works. it focuses on creating justice and equity in america. brittany, it's good to see you again. bad circumstances. ironic, right? we've been talking about what progress we have or have not made in the 60 years since the march on washington. literally someone goes and guns people down. what the sheriff said, i thought it was remarkable. we don't know who he was targeting exactly, but based on the manifesto they found behind, if you were black, you will probably endanger. >> listen, i'm thinking of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. i'm thinking of the two weeks that followed where we saw the
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bombing of the 16th street baptist ridge. and thinking of another milestone that a dear friend of mine reminded me of this morning. nearly 11 years ago, jordan davis was gunned down in florida by a white man name michael done because he said he and his friends were playing their music too loudly. his mother lucy mcbath went from being a grieving mother to a gun violence activist to a member of congress advocating for these things, for these changes at the highest level. she is just that good of a person. also, i wish she were spending a quiet sunday morning both with her son jordan and being anonymous. she did not actually have to step into this work. when are her white neighbors and the people who raised and preach to people like michael don, who talk to them going to step up and interrupt them? the carriers of the disease of what supremacy at some point have to be the ones to curate and not simply the victims of it. we are seeing more and more of
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that happening. we have another michael dunn who reared his head in jacksonville last night. until we interrupt this cycle of white supremacy, we are going to continue to see these tragedies. >> we know that it is being emboldened. most people will tell you that, most people say we don't do anything to embolden white supremacy in this country. one of the ways in which you think is being emboldened, people who have these views feel empowered to not just have the views, not just write about them, not just put them on social media, but you get a gun and armed themselves and go out to these places, including what appears to be an hbcu prior to going to the dollar general, targeting black people and killing them. >> that's right. edward waters university just down the street, this was intentional, whether or not there was a manifesto to prove, it going to an hbcu and a grocery store in a black neighborhood proofs your intention enough. to your question,, which i am very grateful for, we see the
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manifestations of white supremacy all throughout the space. i think it's important for people to realize that white supremacy primarily manifests in two ways. we talk often about the systemic policies, the laws, the institutions which uphold and protect whiteness as dominant to the detriment of all other people. we know that white supremacy manifests in culture, language, social media, entertainment, fashion, traditions, journalism. these are the places where it is far more insidious. it is often unnamed and unknown. it's not even seen when it is happening. it starts off small. that opens a portal for people to learn more and be more deeply radicalized. that is what the gunman in jacksonville and the gunman in buffalo and dylan roof and south carolina and the gunman in kenosha, wisconsin and the people who choked jordan neely to death in new york city, that is what they have in common. they were introduced to the culture of white supremacy in small ways and that opened them
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up to deeper radicalization. absolutely, the gop is to blame for intentionally stoking the flames of hate. they are stoking it for their poll numbers. they're also to blame for making it easier for people -- what supremacy is older and bigger and deeper. what supremacy is global. every single white person who benefits from the culture and systems of white supremacy, whether or not they want to admit it or see it, they have to make it their business to interrupt the culture of white supremacy whenever they see it, wherever they see it, each and every time. otherwise, those small things become those big things. in short, if you are not actively dismantling white supremacy every time you see it, you are helping to perpetuate it. >> i'm going to be talking to doctor ibrahim kennedy who has
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written about this like you have. in this particular day, in this particular moment where we are fighting in places like florida about actually teaching black history to high school students -- and i'm not drawing a straight line to say that if you don't learn ap black history are going to become a white ceramicist, let's be very, very clear, we're not saying that. is teaching history properly in this country about our flaws and about black people's history, could it serve as an antidote to people becoming radicalized because it is out there and everyone is learning about the things we have done wrong and the things we can do better? >> it could and it has to. listen, white supremacy is an ideology. it's taught in the first place. to teach something new, we have to unlearn, actively unlearn white supremacy, its culture, its systems, its beliefs and teach young people something else. it started in the classroom and it starts in homes and all across canada. ron desantis started off as a
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history teacher. he understands the power of the classroom and the power of spreading these ideologies to young people so that asked a growler they make decisions with white supremacy in mind. frankly, when we look at the fact that florida has the second most banned books around the country, we know that the opposition is clear. education is powerful into this matter. yes, teaching proper black history and proper american history, teaching proper world history is the first and very necessary step to making sure that we stop this and that we interrupt the cycle. >> brittany, thanks for being with us. brittany packnett cunningham is an msnbc contributor and the vice president of the -- the social impact firm love and power works. we have breaking news out of australia. three united states marines were killed after their osprey aircraft crashed. another 20 marines were wounded in the incident. five of them are currently in serious condition. the accident occurred off an island off australia's northern
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coast during a routine multi nation training exercise. this model ospreys which can take off and land like a helicopter but fly like an airplane has a history of fatal crashes. in june 2022, five marines died when their osprey crashed during an exercise in southern california. four u.s. service members died in an osprey crash during nato exercises in norway in march 2022. one marine was killed and 21 others were injured during an osprey crash in hawaii in 2015. two marines were killed when an osprey crashed during exercises in morocco in 2012. at least 30 people have also died during developmental testing of the aircraft. up next, we will turn our attention to donald trump and what republicans are doing to aid in his campaign and retribution against the prosecutors who are bringing charges against him. prosecutors who are bringing charges against him. charges against him. ♪♪
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recess since the end of july, before the indictments in either of election interference cases against donald trump, but when members returned to capitol hill shortly after labor day, house republicans have signaled that they are ready to take up the former presidents campaign of grievance and vengeance once again. hours before trump turned himself into local authorities at the fulton county jail on thursday, the house judiciary committee chairman, jim jordan, announced that he would be opening an investigation into, wait for it, fulton county district attorney fani willis. and the sprawling criminal racketeering cases that she's brought against donald trump. in a letter addressed to willis, jordan casts doubt on motivations behind with this investigation, writing, quote, there are questions about whether and how your office coordinated with doj special counsel jack smith during the course of this investigation, and quote. additionally, john is requesting that the district attorney sent him documents and communications between her
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office and doj special counsel jack smith, contact with any executive branch officials, at any records regarding her officers use of federal funds. since republicans regain the majority and took back control of the house the beginning of the year, jordan has spearheaded the effort on capitol hill to defend trump and to undermine the criminal cases against the former president from his perch as the chairman of one of the most powerful committees in congress, opening similar investigations of the other prosecutors who have indicted trump. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, the doj special counsel jack smith, but in addition to jordan's congressional inquiry, willis is also facing scrutiny from local republican officials back home in georgia. and a new state law could make it easier for them to punish, or even remove her from her post. back in may, the georgia governor, brian catfish man, signed a bill that would create a new group, called the prosecuting attorneys qualification commission.
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kemp was a big supporter of the law, as was the states lieutenant governor, bert jones. this man, a very interesting man. he's been identified as unindicted coconspirator number eight in the fulton county indictment, why? because jones was one of the 16 fake electors who signed an illegitimate document alleging the trump won the 2020 election and received the former presidents endorsement when he ran for lieutenant governor last year. in recent days, he is even mimic trump's language in attacking willis, writing in one post on x, formerly known as twitter, quote, they are no longer just coming after trump. fani willis and her corrupt atlanta cabal are coming after you, and everyone else who disagrees with them. this is a political persecution that we won't stand for. it's time to hold fani willis accountable, unquote. for this new georgia law, anyone can make a complaint to the commission, which will have the power to investigate discipline and even oust the prosecutors in question,
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including elected district attorneys like fani willis. even before became, not democrats criticize the bill for a whole host of reasons, one state rep described the true goal of the bill as, quote, prosecutorial overthrow, and quote. meanwhile, others warn that the new commission was designed to hinder willis's investigation of trump and provide a way for republicans to get rid of her. for months, republicans denied those allegations, and vaguely argued that the law was created to deal with, quote, rogue prosecutors, and quote. but within days of trump's indictment in fulton county, at least one republican official, the state senator, clint dixon, has invoked the new commission and said that he will be making the complaint against willis as soon as the group is officially empaneled on october the 1st, quote, once the prosecutorial oversight committee is appointed in october, we can have them investigate and take action against fani willis and her efforts that weaponize the
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justice system against political opponents. this is our best measure, and i will be ready to call for that investigation, and quote. however, those plans could be thrown into doubt, because a group of four district attorneys are now fighting back against the law. earlier this month, they filed a lawsuit seeking to block the formation of the panel, arguing that it threatens their independent powers as prosecutors. so, there is a lot to get into here, and it is really important that you understand. it's after the break, i'm gonna continue this discussion with the former federal prosecutor, cynthia ochsner, and the former fulton county assistant district attorney now georgia state representative, tanya miller. matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. [♪♪] did you know, sweat from stress is actually smellier than other kinds of sweat? that's why i use secret clinical antiperspirant.
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us is the georgia state representative tanya miller, she's also a former federal prosecutor and previously served as the fulton county assistant district attorney. welcome to both of, you thank you for being here. cynthia, this is getting heavy for me. i carry all the indictments with me all the time now so that i can make references to them, and they are super specific. and the georgia indictment, in particular, it is super specific, it is dates, times, of text messages and phone calls, all evidence will be made available if it hasn't been made available to the defendants in the case. how do you manage the idea that people just decide to call a prosecution political, and then other people believe them. i mean, i guess everybody could call everything political, but how do you fight against this republican effort to say that it is political persecution of an opponent? >> what could be helpful is that this prosecution of fani willis is going to be on camera, the answers the facts. the answer is going forward in the trial, which apparently is
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going to begin quite quickly in october, and she's gonna be getting presenting facts, and people tune in and watch it. that is the answer to it. and my biggest concern about this attack on the prosecutors is not that you laid out this new law, the legal attack on the prosecutors doesn't concern me, what concerns me is trump's rhetoric and the danger to fani willis physical danger the community, because he continues to attack her. nothing is more frustrating for donald trump than having a smart, tough woman stand up to him, except for a smart, tough woman, who happens to also be black, and drive some crazy. and he makes comments, and at some point, it is dangerous, and somebody is going to get hurt. and i'm very afraid for her. and i think that's the danger. not the legal stuff, but the physical attack on her. >> representative, miller you know her. they're currently exists checks, by the way, on prosecutors in your state. there is a process to impeach
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and to recall district attorneys. the electoral process itself, by which a district attorney's elected is a check on elected officials, or at least should serve as one. so one of the solving for in georgia? what is this whole new thing that comes into effect on october. what is the problem of this is supposed to be the answer to? >> the problem is, across the state of georgia, for the first time in history, people said more minority district attorneys to represent them at a county level in deciding how criminal justice will be administered. that is the thing that has changed. there are republicans with political reasons who simply don't like the policies of democratic district attorneys who are listening to the will of their voters and their constituents. now, it's interesting, i was on the committee that voted this bill, i voted against, it spoke out against on the floor. because i do agree with madam d.a., that it is racist in its origin, and the reasons for it.
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these republicans swore that this bill would not be used to go after prosecutors who make charging decisions and who are doing their jobs. there is no basis in this statute, not a single, solitary basis, that we have seen yet, or anyone it has pointed to yet that would support making a complaint against fani willis. i don't like the fact that she charged somebody, it is not a basis to make a complaint under this new law. so what republicans are essentially doing is whining and crying and complaining about the fact that they are being held accountable, instead of standing on their principles, letting this thing be aired out in court, and giving it to the voters who all happened to be jurors in this case, to decide. >> cynthia, this isn't russia, where there is a 98%, or 99% conviction rate. people actually have trials and prosecutors lose cases, and a high profile cases like this, it's a risk to all of the
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prosecutors involved here in manhattan, in georgia, and in jack smith. and, in theory, you and i thought about this. oversight is a good thing. you want your elected officials to have oversight. but things like jim jordan's committee, let's move this back to washington, for a second. the select subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government. that is political, that is not only a subcommittee of the federal government, it's only the weaponization of federal government committee. they are trying to limit district attorney's powers, and jack smith's powers. are you concerned about how this cuts into what we are supposed to believe is the prosecutorial independents of the district attorney's, and a special prosecutors? >> they do that he would subpoena her a somewhat ridiculous. remember, jim jordan is the one who was subpoenaed income to the january six convention who stiff armed the subpoena. he is not exactly committed to subpoenas. >> yes. >> i am concerned, what do we see in washington is a lot of
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caring about state rights until the states actually have rights. and then, states rights get flushed down the toilet. i am concerned, i think it is a long term problem, and the only solution is in the ballot box. if people are concerned about what jim jordan is doing, what they need to do is get serious about who their congressman's or congress person's, and flip the house. because this needs to stop, is very dangerous. and it is dangerous at the congressional level, it is dangerous, obviously, at lower levels in the state houses. and as democrats, we've kind of not taking it as seriously as we needed to in the last 50 years. we've sort of been lackadaisical and thinking that we have these rights, not worried about the crazies on the extremes. and we are paying the price for it now. and young people and particularly are getting it, and starting to take back control of their government. >> representative miller, i want to get your thoughts on the governor brian kemp of georgia. he has reiterated multiple times that the georgia election, the 2020 election for president,
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was not stolen. he is also a big proponent of this new law, and this new commission. and there are even calls for him to oppose the moves by his republican colleagues to sanction fani willis. this guy is a rock and a hard place. donald trump doesn't like, him he stood up to donald trump, and, yet he is still behind this idea that somehow, fani willis's prosecution's political. what do you think of him as a figure in this whole situation? >> well, you know, i think brian kemp is getting credit for doing what he should do. since when did the standard of how we judge our leaders become them filing the law and telling the truth? so he is not a hero for doing that. he did exactly what he should do. now, he might be a hero, if he stood up, and told the truth about his party, told the truth about their efforts to suppress vote, and told the truth about what this commission is really about. this commission is about suppressing the will of voters. that is why he supports it. he wants to have control over
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what happens in fulton county, and other counties, where people disagree with his policies. the fact of the matter is is that these republicans who are holding state office right now have got to get back to respecting the will of the voters, respecting law enforcement, respecting prosecutors, and respecting the rule of law. and frankly, it is on american. their silence, at this, point is acquiescence, and it is un-american, and i hope and pray that the voters see it that way, and mr. holding these republicans accountable. >> we appreciate analysis, as always, thank you for joining. us a -- democratic state representative tanya miller of georgia's a federal former prosecutor and a former prosecutor in fulton county, georgia. all right, up next, the injustice system and how america's cash bail system flies in the face of innocent until proven guilty.
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watched as donald trump in his 18 codefendants turned up one by one at the jail in fulton county, georgia. this is attorney fani willis said repeatedly that no one is above the law. the fulton county sheriff also stated that trump and his codefendants would be treated like anyone else, saying, quote, we are following our normal practices and so it doesn't matter your status. they were booked, fingerprinted, had mugshot taken, all but one of the defendants was granted bail. trump's bail was at $200, 000, rudy giuliani is $150, 000, john eastman, kenneth chesebro, sydney powell, jen ellis, all had to post $100, 000, and they did. they are all paid out on bail and free to live their lives until their court dates, presumed innocent until unless proven guilty by a jury of their peers. >> trump's team have been dedicated to fund raising kicks and listening from trump's following including this giuliani benefit dinner and
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only $100,000 per plate. but for most people, most americans who can't fund-raise millions of americans can dollars or sell 100,000 dollar ahead dinners, the justice system which a little differently. -- as defense to put up collateral so they are incentivized a troubling choke to their coat date. cash bill very significantly, but speaking, defendants are greta bill almost there accused of a capitol crime or unless they are determined to be a flight risk. in short, the judge will decide on a bill amount which can be anywhere from a few hundred to a few million dollars, and if and it will have the option to pay that amount and remain a free person out of jail, again, innocent until proven guilty. until they return on their court day and avoid arrest on the interim, the money will be returned. bail bonds are little different, typically used by defendants or their families who can't pay the full bail amount, they will pale a non refundable portion of it to a commercial band company, which then lands them the money to post the bail.
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now, going to a 2022 report by the u.s. commission on civil rights, on any given day, there are roughly 650,000 individuals in jails in this country, not prison, by the way. that is a, much much higher number. but roughly 75% of the 650,000 people, so this is roughly half 1 million people, are being held in pretrial detention, meaning that they have not been convicted, despite being presumed innocent until proven guilty. they are in jail, half 1 million people, right now, sitting in jail just waiting for their day in court. the vast majority of them are there because they can't afford to post bail. now according to the american bar association, nationally, the median bail amount is about $10,000. in the median annual income of people who are in pretrial detention is about $15,000. which translates to asking the people provide roughly eight months of income upfront to post bail. these numbers very allowed by
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state and in 2019 the new jersey, for instance, the new jersey administrative office of the courts found that the average bill amount for defendants who could not afford it, was $2,500. 800 defendants in new jersey were unable to post bail, above $500 that year. so they sat in jail. the system puts poor, low wealth, and low income americans at a huge disadvantage. in many parts of this country, two people could commit the same crime, and face the same bail amount, and the one who could afford bail will return to their life free until their trial, which may be months away. the, other unable to put forward to post bail, will sit in jail for as long as it takes to reach that trial date. in effect, the cash ville system criminalizes poverty. and according to the u.s. commission on civil rights, nearly 60% of pretrial detainees are held because they can't afford to post bail. the report also found that black and the teen omen faced higher financial conditions of release compared to other
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demographics. they are asked to post roughly twice the amount as their white counterparts for committing exactly the same crime. now, this method of unsure and defendants returned to court by using a negative financial incentive systematically forces poor people accused of crimes to cool their heels in jail. people have not yet been convicted, again, under our judicial system, are presumed innocent until proven guilty off enough to sit in jail for weeks months and sometimes years awaiting their trial and it is not just the money study after study has shown that pre-trump tension increases the rate of recidivism, of mental health issues, of homelessness, and unemployment. it is violent, abusive environment that perpetuate the very violence that the system is designed to prevent. however, we are starting to see some change take form, and more states are trying to reform their systems, in some states, like alaska, illinois, and new jersey, have ended money bail altogether. other states like california and new york take into account a person's wealth and income when deciding on bail amounts
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policing blackmon. now, paul, this is a complicated issue. this is no, problem cash bail does not mean the same thing to everybody. but let's use the new york examples. in 2010, there was a 16 year old -- he was allegedly arrested for stealing a backpack, he was put in rutgers jail, he and his family could not afford to post $3,000 bail. there also reports that he was severely abused, he was tortured, beaten up, he spent three years -- three years in solitary confinement, and then the charges against him were dropped. he suffered ptsd any touches on life two years later at the age of 22. just one example, in honor, no you must have thousands of examples of why people look at the same treatment based on whether they have money or not. >> these trump related prosecutions, ali, we are seeing all these elite white people become ensnared in a
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criminal legal system that was largely designed for poor people and people of color like cooley router. so trump's half right when he complains about two systems of justice, the criminal legal system's joke, and but the real victims are not rich and powerful lawyers like john eastman and rudy giuliani, who have no problem making their bail, even when it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. the real victims are people like kobe router, huge number of people in jail who live below poverty below they got locked up. most can't afford to get the average bail. so ali, i get went to a lot of people it would seem so unfair of donald trump or sidney powell were incarcerated in months or years leading up to their trials. but that's the role that 600,000 americans live in right now, presumed innocent, but
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they are still in prison. not because they're guilty, but because they are poor. >> so what is the solution, paul? most people would say, all right. that's the incentive. you've been charged with something, there's evidence to move ahead with a trial against you. we would like you to show up. it is not in the states interest to incorporate all these people, if you can make $500,000 bail, a few months in jail likely friday this whole time, that's we more expensive to the state than something else. so what is a reasonable solution? what is the incentive to say you need to show up if you are charged with something if you are charged with something? >> as more and more jurisdictions, three states are doing and one solution is to end cash bail. the vast majority of people who released before trial show up for their court dates. simple fixes like texting defendants to remind them when they're supposed to be in court, or better than cash bail, which
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is great for billionaires like donald trump, but other times the barrier to equal justice for the average accused person. another fix, ali, is focusing on this for profit bail bond industry, for corporations extract money from people who can at least afford it. if a bail bondsman pays your bail, you have to pay a big feed, and you don't get that, back even if the charges are dropped or you are found innocent. >> right, and you often go to these bill bonds when they are usually right next to a jail. at that, point you don't have the luxury generally of shopping that are trying to find a low interest or free loan. if you are in the bail office, generally, speaking it means is a problem. >> yeah, and there's a lot of pressure then to be guilty, and not one of those 19 people were charged in georgia wanted to spend the night in the notorious atlanta fulton county
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jail, under federal investigation for us with lawsuits and conditions that a president last year was even alive. we know that 15 people died in that jail, am and i know is the best place to prepare for trial, it means you get to come home earlier, if you're homeless or mentally ill, like a lot of people, arcana legal system, those conditions are exacerbated by pretrial extension, and of course, kelly router is the tragic story there. a young man arrested for stealing a backpack, he always insisted that he was innocent, prosecutors said if you plead guilty, you can go home right now. he said i'm innocent. he ended up staying in prison, notorious rijker all, and for over two years, and the conditions there led him to
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take his own life. >> paula, to talk to his, always thank you for giving someone else on this, and hopefully something that people can think about a little bit about what is going on in their own communities and how to motivate some change to the cash mail system. paul's informal peril -- federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, he's also the author of the book chokehold. policing blackmon. all, right on history, show we talked about vivek ramaswamy, the charismatic 38-year-old presidential candidate who is a dangerous conspiracy theorist. the more proof of that? ramaswamy is now acquitting some prominent black americans to, quote, grand wizards of the modern kkk, and quote. coming up next, i will talk to one of the people name checked by the candidates bestselling author abram ex candy, about the disinformation that ramaswamy is spewing, and how dangerous it can be. ous it can be. (dad) we got our subaru forester wilderness to discover all of the places that make us feel something more.
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republican debate, the presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy emerged from relative obscurity to become the most searched candidate on google. with his brash attention grabbing style, he offered republican voters a flavor reminiscent of donald trump, but on friday, ramaswamy raised even more eyebrows. during a campaign event in iowa, he compared the work and words of two prominent black public figures to the words of, quote, grand wizards of the modern kkk, and quote. the remark came in response to a question of whether ramaswamy whose parents immigrated from the united states from india
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anticipates his critics saying that he is complicit in white supremacy. strangely, ramaswamy responded by reading quotes from democratic congresswoman ayanna pressley, and bestselling author -- both quite out of context, and labeling, them quote, words of the modern grand wizards of the modern kkk. now, when pressed further by nbc news about whether he was directly causing pressley and candy grand wizard of the kkk, ramaswamy took ahead of it, saying that the whole movement with wit pressley and candy are associated would make the kkk proud. this is not the first time that the entrepreneur turned presidential candidate, with incendiary comments about race during his campaign. during a town hall in iowa earlier this month, he referred to juneteenth, a day marking the end of slavery, as a, quote, useless holiday, end quote. just last, week he blamed the destruction and death caused by the hawaii wildfires on diversity equity and inclusion
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programs. joining me now is the aforementioned doctor ihram ex candy, professor benny director of the boston university center for anti racist research. candy is also a new york times bestselling author of multiple books, including the new york times bestseller, how to be an anti racist. abram, you and i have had lots of opportunities to talk. i did not think this would be one of, them where i'm inviting you on air to disavow whether or not you have any affiliations with the kkk. so let's to take the portion of your book that the vague ramaswamy quoted, it reads as follows. the remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination. the remedy for president discrimination's future discrimination, and quote. this is from your book. ramaswamy says that that is racism, explain. >> well, in the book actually, i define discrimination. and i go to great lengths talking about a scenario in
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which, for instance, during the covid 2020 pandemic, it was important for us to provide vaccine first for elderly people, because they are the most likely to be dying as a result of covid-19. that can be described as age discrimination. but it actually was an equitable policy that saved lives. and, similarly, when black people are deprived and have been deprived for centuries, the rights and resources, how else are we going to create equity, if not providing specific resources and rights to them? but, of course, that is described as racism, which to me, is very different than depriving people of rights, which is the problem we were talking about to begin with. >> what you described, in many cases, is the affirmative action that many republicans have now taken to calling reverse discrimination.
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obviously, you've written books on this, so there is always context. it becomes a very easy for people like vivek ramaswamy and others, he is certainly not the first republican to do this to take those words out of context. what do you do about that? even writing about this for very long time, you're actually an expert on this particular topic. how do you deal with the fact that somebody just slings this comment, really, it's a slur, calling you akin to a grand wizard of the kkk. >> well, as a scholar, all i can do is set the record straight and set the truth state straight. and the fact is is that the modern clan actually hates me, and you know who the modern clan loves? the very candidate that the vet praises every chance he gets. and that is donald trump, about who, of course, described modern white supremacist as very fine people, who told them to stand back and stand by, who did nothing as they recruit
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white teens online, who has done nothing as they terrorized and murder people of color, jews and muslims and women. but vivek is trey -- praising trump. even though he is the one who was made grand wizards of the ku klux klan and proud, and who are being supported by current wizards of the ku klux klan. >> ramaswamy doubled down on his comments after the town hall. he said, quote, the fact that we are taught to see each other on the basis of our genetic attributes is something that would make the old wizards of the kkk proud. tell me a little bit about this. this is another oversimplifications of a concept. he is saying the idea that people are talked about as black or white creates confusion and is part of the problem. >> well, the fact of the matter is, how do we eliminate racism? how do we eliminate racial
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disparities inequities where black people are more likely to die at the hands of police violence, the impoverished, be incarcerated, died from heart disease and cancer, if we don't talk about race? if we don't identify by race? you know, so that is the fact of the matter. and they want to illuminate conversations about race so that they can hide racism. and if you hide racism, then they are able to hide their policies that are actually causing those disparities and inequities, or in the case of vivek, again, it continues to praise donald trump, his role in maintaining those inequities. >> i'm sure not really all that interested in having a debate with vivek ramaswamy, but i would really enjoy listening to you debunked some of those ridiculous arguments. abram, good to see you again, get a lot more conversation on, this we, will we always. have i appreciate your time, as. always abram ex kennedy, professor and founder of the
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boston university center for anti racist research. author of numerous important books, which are really worth reading, including the bestseller, how to be an anti racist and not a member of the kkk. all, right up next, the latest news of the jacksonville florida, plus, republican presidential candidate, will hurd, joins me. another hour of velshi begins right now. >> we want. you it is, sunday august 27th, i'm ali velshi. six years ago tomorrow that we lincoln memorial in washington d.c., dr. martin luther king junior delivered his famous i have a dream speech. quote, i have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character, and quote. yesterday evening, three black americans were murdered in a crime committed because of the color of their skin. officials are investigating
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