pm eastern right here on msnbc. that does it for me today. we'll be back here at noon eastern. stay right where you are, because as much more news coming up on msnbc. >> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with the very latest. what police say was a deadly, racially motivated shooting in florida. a white gunman shot and killed three black people at $1 store saturday afternoon in jacksonville. where 30% of the residents are black. officials say he used a glock, and an ar-15 rifle inscribed with swastikas. >> the shooting was racially motivated, and he hated black people. >> a young, white male with a

semi automatic gun, with hate and his heart. >> officials say around 11:39 yesterday morning, the suspect left his home in clay county for jacksonville about 45 minutes away. at 1:18 pm he sent a text to his father to check his computer. at one point, officials say historically black college of edward waters university reported seeing him near the campus library. i won 53 pm, the suspect's family calls the clay county sheriff's office, but by that time the shooting was happening. >> the only thing that i can say is those three people were gunned down because they were black. we are in 2023. we are dealing with racial issues like this. it's devastating. it's absolutely devastating. >> it sure is.

this hour, we're going to be speaking with reporters and analysts to get to the bottom of what exactly happened. let's go first to msnbc's george soliz joining us from jacksonville. i understand you're outside the jacksonville sheriff's office. tell me what's happening today. >> yeah, alex, you can see there is a somber mood here in jacksonville, florida. we're expecting an update from sheriff dike waters, and some of the questions, of, course people want to know. they want to see if he will reveal the identity of the alleged shooter, as well as the victim. three tragically lost their life as a result of the shooting. we expect this to be a large press conference, with a lot of questions being asked. earlier at the scene, outside of the dollar general there, obviously you can imagine that it is a very large perimeter. police are still on the scene. they are not much activity, you can just feel how quiet and calm it is. this is a dollar general, they're sort of the only store, the only game in town, if you will. you can imagine, on any given day, they could be going in and out, picking up their essentials for their family. it is shuttered now as part of

this police investigation. my colleague, melissa parra, who is been on the ground, she was one of the first on the scene, able to start gathering information and talking to officials about some of this terrible shooting here, the latest mass shooting, this racially motivated shooting and our country. here is her report with the latest, alex. >> three people shot dead in jacksonville, florida. a shooting police say was grossly motivated. >> we will pursue this incidents as a hate crime. >> police say the shooter, white male with a tactical vest and mask, opened fire and $1 general store saturday afternoon, killing two men and a woman. all of them black. before turning the gun on himself. police on scene recovered a day are style rifle, and handgun. one of them covered in hand drawn swastikas. >> this is a dark day in jacksonville's history. the loss of life is tragic, but the hate that motivated the shooter's killing spree adds an

additional layer of heartbreak. >> authorities say earlier in the day, the man had sent race of right and still look along enforcement, to media, even his own parents, expressing his desire to kill black people. >> portions of these manifestos detail the shooter's disgusting ideology of hate. >> prior to the shooting, police say the gunman stopped at edward waters university, a historically black christian university where he was seen putting on that tactical vest before heading to the dollar general. >> i can't tell you what's mindset was while he was there, but he did go there. >> dollar general released a statement overnight saying we are heartbroken by the senseless act of violence. the brazen kelyn, coming five years to the day after a mass shooting in a video game tournament right here in the same city, also carried out by a lone gunman in jacksonville. >> he was aware of that, and perhaps shows the state in alignment with that. >> and saturday evening, florida governor ron desantis released this video. >> he took the cowards way, out but we condemn what happened

and the strongest possible terms. >> meanwhile, back in jacksonville, anger and grief. a community comes to grips with unimaginable pain. >> the people in this community, they're hurting. they have every right to, you know, this makes no sense. i am very, very angry right now. >> again,, alex, i want to take you back to what i saw when i was out there before arriving on scene. it's so quiet, it's very, it's almost like an eerie, disturbing silence that you hear in that community after this horrible shooting. a lot of people, as melissa reports says, are rattled by the shooting that's found them in this community. because so many people have so many questions, we're expecting this press conference, which is expected to begin in about ten or 15 minutes or so, to just be filled with those questions. the shooter, again, not publicly identified, though a name has been circulating out there. we should note, because the standard in these investigations, the fei or joining in on this

investigation for answers. of course, a lot of higher ups in the federal government or wayne and with their sentiments. we have some statements here. one from merrick garland, who says, quote, no person in this country should have to live in fear of hate filled violence, no family should have to grieve the life of a loved one to bigotry and hate. the homeland security is also weighing in, alex. saying too many across our country have lost a loved one because of racially motivated violence. the department of homeland security is committed to working with our state and local partners to help prevent another such a poor, tragic event from occurring. unfortunately, we know the shootings do occur. we're coming off the heels of the shooting in buffalo new york. so many people are having to relive this tragedy. you can imagine how difficult it is to hear about another not only mass shooting, but racially motivated shooting. the healing in this community is just speaking to this, alex. >> it is heartbreaking, it is awful to hear about, it is

awful to have to talk about on the air, awful for you to have to report. it's all awful. we are going to get that news conference coming up at about 1:15, everyone. that's an about ten minutes. george will give us a flood when it's underway, we'll get there. thanks for that. i will bring in reverend al sharpton, host of politicsnation here on msnbc. rev, can i ask if you've heard of anything from your sources about the jacksonville shooting? >> well, i've talked to -- one of the major churches in jacksonville. a member of our national core. he is basically waited, as most of the people in jacksonville, for what is going to be released at the press conference. hopefully. we don't even know the identity. the outrage is that while this was going on, we had tens of thousands of people marching here in washington on the weekend that commemorates the 60th anniversary of march on

washington, martin luther king the third, and his wife, and doctor king's granddaughter and i organized that march. people from all over the country, including 19 buses, one bus from jacksonville, 19 buses from -- so we don't even know somebody young students that were on the jacksonville bus may have been related to one of them that was killed. this is outrageous. it also shows why we are still marching. when i hear that he went to the dollar general store, which was where everybody goes in that community, it reminds me of the shooting in buffalo, not long ago, the same situation. we have got to deal with guns, the accessibility to guns, and we have to deal with hate crimes. don't forget, he shot three blocks, had a swastika, this was an anti black, anti systematic act that was

absolutely murderous. we need to stop going from one of the situations to the next. >> i'm listening to your words, and listening to those that george soliz brought us from leadership. let me also get to naacp eric johnson, here's what he said about. the reaction is, as we continue the march for freedom and washington, hateful actions continue to carry out the white supremacist agenda and jacksonville. we have, we also saw governor from florida, ron desantis, and here is what he had to say. he had to condemn the shooting. we played a little of what he said. let's remind folks, the naacp didn't they warn folks, don't go to florida? it's not safe. that was not that long ago. >> yes, they hadn't advisement. they had that for people who lived in florida. we know that three people killed were not traveling form outside, they were in the

action. i think is the urban league, the naacp, this is what we're talking about. people are saying why are you all still marching? why are you raising these issues? the president, vice president, median with the organizers of the march tomorrow. we have got to be serious about this. the only way to be serious is we have to do something about access to guns. they announce white supremacy, nose to the media, nose to the family. they have mental health problems. obviously, we're taking these things at the cost of innocent human lives. >> you mentioned dr. martin luther king's granddaughter, here's what she said yesterday. take a listen, rev. >> if i could speak to my grandfather today, i would say i am sorry that we still have to be here, to rededicate

ourselves to finish in your work, and ultimately realizing your hidden dream. today racism is still with us. poverty is still with us. now, gun violence has come for our places of worship, our schools, and our shopping centers. >> that is one inspiring, powerful voice. it's awful she was talking about exactly what was happening when it was happening. >> she was talking about it as it was happening. not knowing that. by the time we left the lincoln memorial, and let those thousands over to the rally, we went back and were heading back to the hotel. that's when we got the war that there was a shooting in jacksonville. we didn't even know. by the time i went off to

politicsnation, martin and andrea, and young yolanda were in the studio with me. we didn't know it was a racial killing till we come back to the hotel. at the very time that we were marching, in someone's, saying they don't need to do that anymore, this was happening. that's why we need to keep doing this. not only marching, but march shane into legislation, back in gun lobby in terms of how we deal with these weapons. these automatic weapons and semi automatic weapons are making it easy for someone to do what they debt. we can't stop people from haiti in, but we can sure stop armed haters from automatic and semiautomatic weapons. >> before i let you, go revved, gop candidate is doubling down on calling congressman, ayanna pressley, part of the modern kkk. here is some of how he answered direct questions on his rhetoric today. >> this whole country --

the reality, jenna, you have to speak openly. >> they lynch people, murdered people, burned their homes. >> that was wrong. >> if you want to have a discussion, do you think that maybe comparing her to the grand wizard, and the notion of what she said to being a modern leader of the kkk was maybe a step too far? or do you stand by what you said? >> i stand by what i said to provoke an open an honest discussion in this country. >> wow. what concerns me most about this kind of rhetoric as you go into a campaign season? >> first of all, he said that he wanted to provoke a conversation. that's a self admitted provocateur. if the republican voters want to provoke a tour who sees nothing wrong with that january six, where there is actual

violence, who stand by the prosecutors, that indicted donald trump for being part of this, and not doing enough to try to discourage january six, with actual violence happening. he would endorse trump if he was a nomination for president. for you to attack a woman who disagree with, who was on politics with me later today, by the way, it shows how far this party has gone to poison what is going on in this country. ramaswamy was the one who said that juneteenth, the holiday one people who were enslaved in texas found out that they were freed, and could leave slavery. he said that some derogatory terms about juneteenth. i don't think that any of us are taking him seriously. i think what is dangerous about him is to ignore that some

people are going to be, in some ways, influenced in his showmanship, because clearly he's taking this with donald trump, all the showmanship and substance. we've seen the danger that could happen on people. >> we sure have. >> we have, thank you so much. we know that ayanna pressley will be on your show in just a few hours for. now on politicsnation. thank, you rub, for that. perfect time to pivot back, everyone. we're going to go back to jacksonville, and we're going to be listening to the sheriff d.k. waters who is speaking today, right now, about the shooting in jacksonville. take a listen. >> before the investigation is completed, this briefing is a only citation a verified information. i want to begin by honoring the three precious lives that were lost yesterday. angela michel car, 52 years old. and old joseph, or a.j.,

junior. 19 years old. gerald does sean galion, 29 years old. yesterday, homicide detectives notified victims of family members but continue to pray for those who were lost to this maniacs acts of senseless violence. the medical examiner positively identified the shooter as ryan christopher paul matter. the shooter was 21 years of age when he committed yesterday's atrocities. he lifted his parents in orange park, and clay county florida. to our knowledge, he had no criminal arrest history. as i said yesterday, he did have a big go right from 2017. this position occurred in clay county, it appear that the shooter was held for 72 hours under the baker act provisions, then released without further involuntary commitment. homicide detectives have been able to establish a timeline of

events, up to and including the shooting. well 76, 2017, he was in clay county. on for six to 2023, the faa transferred to orange -- gong and pond of a glock 20, generation for, ten millimeter. and 6:22 of 2023, the faa transfer to wild west guns in kampala medal state armory, pei 15, 556 millimeter. ar-15 type rifle. on a 2016 of 2023, the suspect arrived at vw behind the library. in a gray honda element. he dawned his bulletproof fast. during this time, a tiktok video of the suspect getting dressed set and up to you, with no time stamp on that tiktok video. at 12:55, in ten seconds, a w security bats into a parking spot, in the same parking lot

as a suspect. at 12:57, 49 seconds, the suspect leaves cw, cell phone beer street, then western kings road. at 12:50, eight and 17 seconds, eat w security follows our suspect out of the parking lot. between a w security leaving the parking lot, and shots -- and i won one call at dollar general at 14 010804. eight of flags down an officer and says this is suspicious person on campus. a white male, heavy set, where integrating top, black shorts, bulletproof fast, and blue latex gloves, and a tanned kia. that was the description. , they thought he was in a kia. they also stated that they're researching the vehicle in the subject to see if there's any calls for service, and in the process of writing a be on the lookout for the suspect, when the shooting goes out. i want to wait, an 11 rounds of shots were activated. at one awaits and 13 seconds,

the suspects on video in the parking lot in front of the store, shooting into a blocky, ahead murders the first victim. that's angela car. the suspect enters $1 general store engages the second victim. i saw a young 19 year old victim. at 24 seconds, multiple witnesses exit the rear door of the store. i want to wait and 47 seconds, the suspect exits the same weird or. at 109, and six seconds, one round of shots go off. that one a nine and 13 seconds, the suspect enters the same were door. at 109, and 30 seconds, the suspect shoots at a security camera several times but misses. i want to nine a 50 seconds, the first 9-1-1 call goes out. i want to 30 seconds, victim jarred galion enters a store with his girlfriend. at 1:13 and five seconds, one

round of shots and associates once again. at 1:13 and ten seconds, the suspects shoots a third victim, gerald galion. at 1:13 and 12 seconds, the suspect chases the witness, all of you should chapel through the store, shooting her but does not strike her. no 1:13 and 25 seconds, helvetia cameron exits the rear door, the east or the store. at 1:13 and 37 seconds, the suspect shoots at the rear door on the east side of the building. i won 13 43 seconds, -- i went 13 and 47 seconds, the suspect reenters the building and walks back towards the office. i won 14 in 23 seconds, the suspect enters the office. it won 18, the suspect texted his father and says use the screwdriver to get into my

room. the father enters the room and sees the final will and testament of the suspect along with a suicide note on his laptop. and one 1921 seconds, the officers under the building to begin to clear. this is 11 minutes after this whole ordeal began. patrol cleared the hallways when the officer hears a single gunshot. we believe that is when he killed himself. at 1:41 and three seconds, cw you calls to notify -- at 3:45, or 3:44 and 24 seconds, our s.w.a.t. officers confirmed the suspect is down. homicide detectives have gathered surveillance footage, daily footage from the dollar general which captured the shooter's rampage. i will share portions of that footage. now out of respect for the victims families, we are going to cut this video short. we would not be showing their loved ones and what happened to them inside the store. whether these video surveillance excerpts detail some of the shooters movements outside and inside the dollar

general. as you'll see from the video footage, the shooter, outfitted himself with a tactical vest which he covered with a short sleeve button-up shirt. he created facial covering and donned gloves for his attack. this investigation is ongoing. i will provide you with additional information as this established in verified. i want to thank our law enforcement partners for their continued support and this investigation. as our community collectively grieves this tragedy, this agency will continue to diligently investigate so we can provide victims, families, and our communities with as many answers as we can. our community is grappling to understand why this occurred. i urge us all to not look for a sense in a senseless act of violence. there is no reason or explanation that we will ever come for the shooter's decisions and actions. his sickening ideology is not representative of the values of this jacksonville community that we all love so much. we are not a community of hate. we stand united with the good and decent people of the city.

we reject inexcusable violence. this agency will not rest until this investigation is complete and every available avenue of accountability has been exhausted. i will be happy to answer any questions after review this video. again, the video is rather short because i don't think some of the things that are on there are appropriate for television. is not meant to entertain or to be insensitive to our victims and our victims families. i wanted the people to be able to see exactly what happens in the situation, and just how

sucking it is. i'll answer any questions if i can. yes sir. >> [inaudible] >> we have no formation you were to the store. >> we are hearing from witnesses that to white women were escorted out the storm before firing. >> from what i'm understanding, from our lieutenant here, he let several people out of the store. why, i don't know. some of them are white, but i do believe that there were a couple who were not. >> did he give a warning before he started shooting? >> no. when you see him walk out on the sidewalk, the points that kind of that car. he fired 11 rounds at that car. he did not give any warning, he just did it. >> when he was inside the store, somebody told me he said if you don't want to die then [inaudible] >> those are all statements were looking into and trying to confirm. >> did the police presence in that area, or any other area in jacksonville, [inaudible]

>> we are staying very diligent in vigilant in our communities. we're making sure people, in this is what we talk about. this is what i'm talking about it so much. i want people to be pain attention. i want anyone who see something strange out there, we don't expect anything like this to happen again. we hope it never happens again. we also ask our community to be on the lookout, and to just be aware of the possibilities. we don't think, again, there's no information that gives us any belief that this is going to happen again. of course, we're always going to be playing close attention. >> you mentioned earlier that this gentleman here, initially went to edward waters university. is there any information from your investigation so far about why he went there first. >> it looks to me that he went there to change into whatever he needed to change and do. he had an opportunity to do violence, he did not. there were people very close, and very close proximity. he did not do anything. there he backed, out he left. >> sheriff, after reading that

manifesto, how difficult does it for you to stand here, processes hate crime that entered your community. this is a year after that shoe date and buffalo of a similar nature. >> it angers me as the sheriff, as a member of this community. no family should ever have to deal with something like this. anyone who enters into a store and does this stop perfectly innocent people, couple customers, it's baffling to me. it's very difficult for me to watch. i've seen a lot over 32 years. i don't ever want to have to see it again. i don't like it. we are going to make sure we work as hard as we can to stop these kinds of things from happening again. that's why we are paying close attention to doing so much to try to determine what exactly led to this. the manifesto is quite frankly the diary of a mad man. he was, i mean, he was just

completely irrational. with his irrational thoughts, he knew what he was doing. he had 100%, he was one hunted percent lou said. he knew what he was doing. again, it's disappointing that anyone would go to these lanes to hurt someone else. >> do you have any more details about why he [inaudible] >> no, he didn't have the guns back in 2017, he was only 15 at the time. there is no, there was no flag that could've come up to stop him from purchasing those guns. as a matter of fact, it looks like you purchase those guns legally. all of the nfl's did what they were supposed to have done to make sure that there were no issues. so therein lies the difficulty. one person grabs a hold of a gun with hateful intentions, it's very difficult to stop that from happening. >> i just want to make sure i

have this all in one place in terms of sound here. can you tell us where those firearms came from, with a legal, guns legally possessed? >> one hunted percent legal. as we, as i've stand here with you today, they were legally possessed. there was nothing indicating, again, like i, said it appears that the dealers that solace guns to him did it legally. they did what they were supposed to have done. one was wild was gone, but was the other one? >> one was wild was gone, as the other was march park gun emporium. >> it appears that they did everything that they were supposed to do as a gun dealer. there was nothing indicating that he should not own guns. >> so standing, here he possess these guns legally. you know what he did with them. what should have been done? >> what we have to stop people that have bad intentions. guns, the story is always about guns. the people are bad, this guy's a bad guy. if i could take my got off right now, late on this counter,

nothing would happen. it would sit there. but as soon as a wicked person grabs ahold of that handgun and start shooting people with that, there is a problem. the problem is the individual. now guns are tool that people used to do horrible things, but it's the individuals that we want these things. we are working hard to try to stop that. in the situation, in this case, there was nothing to say, there is nothing illegal about him holding a firearm. >> sheriff, does he have a history. do you have implications and the community that there will be a racial divide in the community are nationwide? >> i don't think there's a racial divide in our city. actually, i work along with some of the best people in the entire world. it doesn't matter what color they, are what they look, like we are banded together, as a community, to fight these issues. i don't think that there is a racial issue. i know that there are racial issues with some people. that as a whole, we all stand here together because we're concerned about the same thing.

>> beside bucket people and evil people, [inaudible] given the legislation that governor desantis signed a few months ago, are you concerned that anyone with mental issues, and this person seemed to have a history of this [inaudible] what can we do about that locally? >> we have to do a better job of background checks. they're doing background checks. they do exactly what they're supposed to do. there was nothing there to indicate that he should know on a firearm. then there is something else that needs to be done. really, what needs to be done is people need to tell us when they see, or they hear these things rising up on an individual. i don't know if anybody knew how he really felt. we haven't managed them yet. we're still looking. yeah, that's my answer to that. mental illness is there, but not everyone is mentally ill grabs a firearm and kills people for no reason. >> sheriff, when things [inaudible] what are some lessons that you

learned early on from yesterday 's events? the to respond to this incident. >> we responded quickly. the reason he went back into the stores because there was an officer at the door, waiting for him, looking for him. so we responded quickly. we had to remain vigilant. we have to remind people to call us. it doesn't matter what it is. if it looks weird, if it looks strange, call, us tell us, so we can respond. if it looks like he's putting on a bulletproof fast, if it looks like he's putting on gloves, you have to call us and let us know. i appreciate the security guard a w for flaking down a policeman in telling him about it. pick up that phone. down that my one. get on the phone with the dispatcher, because we can get realtime updates and find out what's going on. we can respond that much quicker. this is some of the things we learn. of course, we're learning more and more every time, unfortunately, some of these things happen. now we're going to study, that

we're going to continue to study it, we're going to continue to work on it until we find out the exact history of the thing, and we'll put some things into practice, we'll continue to work and make sure that we can respond, as we did just that. yesterday. >> have you had any time to have this -- >> let me tell you this. there was no criminal record. nothing. no criminal history. nothing. he had a domestic violence call at his house. with his brother. >> where their friends who said -- >> we'll handle that. we understand how investigate this, we will continue to. what i'm telling you, where it stands right, now there is nothing we could've done to stop him from owning a firearm, a rifle, or handgun. there was no red flags. all right? >> thank, you sheriff. >> thanks, all. >> we're listening there to the jacksonville sheriff, d.k.

waters. if you're like me, when you hear something like this, it's incredibly chilling to listen to a sheriff run down what happened like that, second by second. you think about that. it took 11 minutes for this whole thing to happen, but second by second he ran this down, he said what happened. the terror that the people inside of that dollar general store must have felt when you saw that man. this is unique. when you watch a news conference from police, immediately in the aftermath, it's rare that we see the photos up there. it was a video that was deeply edited, but we saw the shooter. he was a 21 year old man, ryan christopher paul matter. he has been identified. when you see him shooting, 11 rounds, it came out of that ar-15 style rifle, out of a car in the parking lot. then he turns around to be

pivots 90 degrees, and he's pointing that gun, that's where the end of that video happened. we all know what happened after that. it is a really awful thing to have to hear that, and understand what those people were going through. there's a lot of details that we do get, we have to commend the sheriff for having done so. i want to go over some of them right now, with jim kavanaugh. of course, the front of the show, our network, he's a former atf special agent in charge. jim, i'm awfully sad to have to talk with you yet again about a situation like this, but let's talk about the legality of these two guns that the shooters possessed. ryan apparently got access to them, both this year. first the glock, then the ar-15 style rifle. completely legally. no known history of trouble of violence. what kind of a problem does that pose in trying to stop heinous incidents like this

from happening again. >> well, those guns are not illegal to possess, alex, unless you are convicted felon, a fugitive from justice, a person under indictment for a felony, a person who is illegally entering the country, a person who has been determined to be mentally defective. there are people who are prohibited from owning firearms. these firearms, the best we know, this is normally a semiautomatic rifle here that we're looking at, the swastikas on them, that is over the counter in most states by anyone who is 18 years old. in florida, they raise the age of florida. you see states have 18, 21-year-old walking to buy that gun. the handgun, they can buy the same way. none of those are illegal to possess unless you yourself are prohibited. we don't know everything about his background, i think the sheriff said he didn't have any criminal record.

so he wouldn't be prevented unless he had been adjudicated as a defective. that doesn't mean that if you have the baker act, i used to be a florida deputy sheriff. i took people into custody for the baker act. that would be a person who is suffering and some mental episode, someone who is delusional. officers come across people like that often. they haven't committed a crime. they're just a danger to themselves or others. so there is a provision in florida law where we would take them into custody, we would take them to an emergency room, we would have a physician examine them. they asked that they be incarcerated for 72 hours, where they can be examined by a psychiatrist. you know, for their own safety. that would be in the community. we did not take him to jail. we take him to the emergency room. then the doctor certified, we

took him to a facility where they would be, you know, held for observation for 72 hours. then they be treated and released. that was not a commitment by a judge. that is not been adjudicated as a mental defective. even that kind of attention is not prohibited, does not make you not able to buy or a firearm if that is happened to you. >> jim, this baker act, if you came across somebody who is behaving abnormally, as you've described, and they had a gun on their person, does that change the way you would have dealt with them? not just taking them to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation? >> yeah, that depends. if they're carrying the gun legally or illegally. this depends on the laws of the state. years ago, you could not carry a gun without a permit in most states. you have to have a permit to

carry a gun advocate sealed weapon. now the states, many states have loosened these laws so much that they just have constitutional carry. they say that anybody can carry a gun if you're not prohibited. you don't need a permit, you don't need anything. so let's take this area were discussing. unless the person was committing a crime, and they were suffering a mental episode, the deputy would take the gun. he couldn't put the handcuffs on him, he could take his gun, the baker act, you have to return mcgahn, because he didn't commit a crime. so years ago, that didn't happen. he would have to have a permit, you know, i. people didn't, we didn't have as many people carrying guns as we did them. this, i think that what we forget about this often is that gun people sometimes are suffering from all kinds of stresses and life. then they get their hands on

these weapons, and they sort of become empowered by the gun. the gun becomes a solution for them. they normally wouldn't think about this. now they're holding the saying, and they're feeling the power of it. but not been sued provide, alex, like they would if they were in the military. a marine, a sailor. they have a lieutenant, a training officer, a process. there's supervised. the police, the police or paramilitary. they're trained to shoot a gun, it's a tool, there's a lot of regiment with it. some people don't get any of that. then they got their hands on a powerful weapon like this ar-15, the bullet comes out of there are 3000 feet per second. it's like a flying role bet, a flying drill bit. it's going to go right through you, it's going to be a devastating wound. the people feel that power, and then they go to their grievance. and this case, hate, he's been

indoctrinated, probably, on the internet. among others who believe this garbage. >> jim, that brings up something. when you talk about the sheriff's office says they're going to investigate try to find out everything they can about this individual, ryan christopher paul matter, and figure out what led up to this. how successful do you think he can be, how easy do you think it is to mind the past of this person, and figure out if he expressed hate in places, like do they have to start with the parents? he's 21 years old, but i believe he lived at home. is that the first place that the sheriff and investigators go? >> yes, alex, it. is we've seen this both ways. we have seen where the parents are not spigots, and they try to raise their children appropriately. the child gets the stuff from outside influences.

i've seen it where the parents are bigots, and they raise the child as a bigot. so the racial slurs throughout the house, all this time. you know, they grow up like that. they go to that philosophy. i've seen that both. ways you really don't know what's happening in the home. they'll talk to the parents, the family. then you'll do with the psychological autopsy. they'll go back, they'll start looking at all of these devices, the internet, who were there talking to. the feet he's writing. i can tell you, unfortunately, there were use if experience, this is not going to be that complicated. he is reading all the same neo-nazi websites, you know, ku klux klan stella sites. he's telling racist jokes. he's denigrating people all the time. he celebrating all this white nationalism. he has this, who he wants the

people in this community of hate, they are supporting him. they are supporting him. if you were to go on the web today, you would find a lot of voices on the dark web, and the back quarters of the internet supporting this guy. that is who supporting he is seeking him when he goes to do this act. so when we call him, the people mistakenly call him lone wolf's, i call the mad dogs. they don't really have a criminal confederate, a criminal conspiracy. they aren't alone. there is supported by the network of hate, the apparatus of organized hate that supports that. march he would to keep torches. yelling racial slurs. haiti in every kind of people, jewish people, latino people, black people, everyone. that is who he is a part of. that is what he is a part of.

it's so similar, alex, to crisis in al-qaeda. you and i have talked about that over the years, the years have gone by about this garbage. this is similar. it's not very different. >> what do you -- >> push the actor out when he does -- >> what do you make, jim, of the sheriff saying that he had gone to that historically black college nearby? and that's where he had dawned his tactical vest, his bulletproof fast, and got dressed, put a gray short sleeve shirt over that, and taken off from their. we should note that the sheriff said that the campus police officer who called in alluded to something suspicious is a real hero having done that. he didn't let something slide, he said it didn't feel. write the sheriff acts everyone to understand that when something doesn't feel right you, make that call. you say, i've seen some say, it's disturbing. the fact that ryan, cristobal

paul met, or that he went there, again, he has this manifesto about how much she hates black people. it's been called discussion, and i'm sure it is discussed in, called disgusted by the sheriff. he went to that historically black college, donned the best, but didn't open fire there. does something not make sense to you about that? can you read into that at all? >> yeah, it makes perfect sense to me. i've worked on so many. he's a doofus. he goes to the black college because he thinks, he thinks he's going to find people there he can shoot. it's summertime on the weekend. >> oh. >> it's a week before the labor day weekend. he doesn't calculate that into his plan, he's such a moron. he goes to a college, basically in the summertime. i don't know if it's the last schedule, but it's summertime. the classes may not have even

ramped up till after labor day. it's on the weekend. and it's hotter than the hinges of hell in jacksonville this weekend. >> yeah. >> so who is on the street? there are people there. so he whip, sabbagh, nobody here to shoot. i've gotta go five people to shoot. where are they going to be? oh, here's a store. you know, he's in an african american neighborhood so he shoots people. >> that's the way i would read. we don't know what happened, but that is likely the challenge. it could've been a target. >> it could've been. jim, hang on to stay with me as we bring in george soliz. you guys, he was at the top of the show. he is the reporter there with nbc news on scene. george, i've use the word chilling to describe what i heard with the sheriff run-through chronically in everything about this incident. tell me what it was like been there, listening to that, what

kind of information you could you didn't hear yesterday. >> yeah, alex, you could just hear it in the sheriffs voice how heavy this weighs on him, and the entire agency here having to not only go through this manifesto what she described as a diary of a mad man, but also watching the video. we got to see just a few seconds of what happened inside of the dollar general yesterday. mind, you he said he was only going to play the first few seconds for contacts, but not play out the rest of it out of respect for the families. some other highlights that we picked up there from the press conference, as you mentioned, three of the victims that were shot were identified. you know the entire incident lasted around 11 minutes. the sheriff said that a suicide note appeared to have been found on the laptop. it looks like the shooter left several people out of the store, it's unclear why this point. the sheriff said, obviously you mentioned that he had an opportunity while he was at that historically black college to possibly do some harm. it looks like potentially the

security guard had a hand in stopping all of it. the height of this, this investigation is clearly still ongoing. a lot of questions for circulating about the guns. i want to read something that he said. he said here and lies the difficulty. one person grabs a hold of a gun with hateful intentions, that is very difficult to stop. so, like i said, they are going through everything, every little detail of the shooting to try to learn more about the background of the shooter, why he may have done this, and again, i question him about having to read that manifesto. he was just, you can see, again, how much weight on him to have to go through every page with, us and try to decipher what's motivation, or what other intention might have been behind this beyond the racial component. i asked him if he was worried that this is going to cause a divide here in jacksonville, maybe have some ripple effects nationwide given that this white individual went into this predominantly black community and killed these three people. he says he hopes not. he says this is not indicative

of representative of the community and jacksonville. this is very isolated. he says that he thinks this is, as tragic as is, will bring the community together as they try to heal from the violence that has not touch this community like so many others as we've reported on the past, alex. >> what's extraordinary is he will have to go through this with the manifesto, floral, we say. all the details. something else he said that was very poignant, and it's true, don't try to make sense of the senseless violence here. it's a difficult thing to do. that said, everyone, i'm going to ask you to stay with, me george, as well as, huge. am we're going to bring a democratic congresswoman in sydney. congresswoman, i am glad you're here. that last point i made, how do you make sense of the senseless? these victims, they were just out shopping on a saturday afternoon. going about their daily routines. they were targeted for the color of their skin. what has been your reaction to

all of this. not this incident, but the fact that it is not isolated, it is far from isolated. >> thank you for having me on. my heart goes out to the families, and the victims, and folks who are traumatized by events like this across the country. you know, hate, bigotry, and gun violence are kissing cousins. they're also signals says that are plaguing this country. events like that should not be common, but they should also be unifying events instead of polarizing. there is no reason why we shed create a martyr out of a killer who shows up at a grocery store with an ar-15, you know, hunting black people. what will happen is we will come back to congress, there will be a moment of silence for the victims of this incidents, republicans will stand up, and then they will do nothing after that. >> yeah, let's let that's again because i've been a news anchor

long enough to know that you have predicted exactly what will happen. how do you change that? >> well, we have discharge positions that we have placed at the desk of almost every week over the course of the past few months, waiting for just five republicans to sign these petition so that we can debate all of these issues. >> wait a minute, you need just five. i'm sorry, you need just five? >> we need just five republicans with a spine or a constitution to sign these protections that we can debate the issues. not even vote on them. meanwhile, we are creating martyrs out of these killers who are hunting black people. this happened to the weekend of the march on washington. when we are supposed to be talking about democracy, and wanted people to still believe in it. you, know if this is who we want to, be we will not survive as a country. >> what does it say to you, i'm still really that you need only

five republicans and all of congress, just five to say, we're going to open up the debates, we're going to have this conversation here in congress. do you think this might be something that will put five over the edge? to say, we need to talk about this. >> absolutely not. i am waiting to see the spines of all, you know, from republicans on this house floor. like i said, this is a grotesque moderna that happened with these colors, that is accepted by republicans. if you are begging folks, just five folks so you could talk about these issues, it's not just about mental health, is not just about hardening schools, it's about taking guns off the street because the laws that they are willing to pass continue to over monitor and over, punishment over incarcerate the people who are not committing these acts of

violence. we have to come to terms with that. yes, people are hunting black folks, but at some point they will tire and they will come to you. we don't want that to happen. i've got to spain, of gotten many countries because of my work on the foreign affairs committee, and many of these do not -- that crime is manus of all. this kind of sickness is not >> the challenge here is that the guns. the guns were bought earlier this year. there is nothing indicating that he should not own guns, but when it comes to a level of mental illness, or you might be able to find someone like this writing about hate filled thoughts, said what you might want to do, the dark web going on there, it would behoove congress to at least discuss the prospect of background checks. does that make common sense to

everyone? >> there is not a lot of common sense coming from the republican party right now. we should be talking about this. we should be talking about a.i.. we should be talking about mental health. we should be talking about limitations on gun purchases. we should be talking about how antiquated the second amendment does. we are not in the majority, and republicans are too afraid, or they are being held hostage by the extreme, and they are not willing to talk about this. remember, i sit on a committee that and the very beginning, voted to allow us to bring guns and explosives to the committee. the republicans said that this was okay. so how do you think we're going to have common sense on the floor when it comes to protecting the lives of americans that were trying to go grocery shopping, or go to church, or go to school. >> and fortunately, that's a rhetorical question. one could always have hope.

jim kavanaugh, let's have you back in this conversation. jim, background checks, is that something that uniformly across law enforcement they are in support of? in a situation like, this, granted we may still find more indications that 21-year-old bryan cristobal ryan palmeter who carried out this attack, a marketing use the word allied, she did it. he's on video doing, that he killed himself having done it. is there something that would indicate background checks could have been helpful in preventing these things from happening going forward? word is law enforcement stand on that? >> well, lot of force mints supports background checks. background checks are not an infringement on anyone second amendment rights. it's simply to check to see if you are a person who is a danger, who is prohibited from having the gun. you know, the pushback from the gun lobby is that it's too

inconvenient. it's too inconvenient. you, know it's kind of inconvenient to walk through the metal detector at the airport, get wanda, take off your shoes, that's inconvenient, but we all duets for the safety of the common we'll. i mean, w e al, the common good. that's something we acceptance is siding because it makes us safer in general. i think more people, more americans support background checks like chocolate chip cookies. which is we don't look that way. we can say in general that the republicans will not do it because of the gun lobby, this is true. the citizens hold the vote. and what happens, as we all looked the same guys that do that. if there is going to be change, alex, it can't be from the congressman. the representative just said, there's too many without a

spine. >> let me just -- >> the people must vote to really. >> i'm going to backup, the democratic congressman, sydney call knocker of california. it is her first term. i suspect she is someone who is coming to congress and say we have to do something about this. i would love to do something about, this put pressure on republicans and anybody else who opposes some kind of limitation, or just thoughtful levels of gun control, or at least been able to legally look at guns and a way that doesn't put people who are emotionally unstable and possession of them. let me ask you quickly, jim. you said that it's inconvenient for us to do background checks. the sheriff also praise the two gun dealers that passed along the information. he used some initials to describe what that process was. can you go through that? the challenges of having done that.

both the glock, and the ar-15 gun manufacturer, gun dealers. they did a good job of letting them know. they were able to trace these guns back to the shooter. what is that process like? >> well, the atf maintains the national tracing center outside of washington d.c.. they trace hundreds of thousands of guns for the police every year. we do urgent traces on flights from the manufacturer, the wholesale to the dealer. you know, i'm sure that they instituted. that gun dealers might have seen the skies name and said, ice ultimate gone, called into the police. i don't know how transpired their. gun dealers, overall, their small business people. they follow the law. 99% of them are honest, and they help atf, they help the police. they are not doing anything illegal. there have always been less than 1% who are, you know,

rogue dealers who sell things out the backdoor, falsifying records, you know. then you have to catch and convict. you know, that's true in every profession,. there's going to people like that. most of the dealers are not like that. they're honest. they call the sheriff, or they called atf, so we sold this, here is the record were required to keep. you can have. but this system that way. so dealers stop a lot of sales through background checks, you know, the sales stock. the customers still insist they want the gun, the gun dealer than help the frontline of keeping us safe i say no, we're not giving you the gun. >> yeah. >> it's illegal, will lose our license. you have to get out here. there's not a cop there, there's no federal agent standing there. it's the gun dealer. you, know we gotta realize that it's a law, an organization of law. the law that the dealers will

follow. >> and continue -- >> we all do, but the law does things to protect us. but i say it's the voters. if the voters don't want this, then don't forget the guys out who will do it. >> there you go. >> don't fall guys out that will make the change. if you do that in one cycle of the election cycle, all this will change. >> it will change, very quickly. yeah. so -- once that issue will push them out, they will go back to it. >> jim kavanaugh, yep. and it gets reasonable officials elected. jim, thank you so much. i understand you have to go. i appreciate your time with us this breaking news. let me wrap up with a democratic congressman from california. sydney cal not guard of, your take away thoughts as we have parse through this. when you get off the air with me, was going to be first thing you think about about what we can do to fix this? >> it's so important that we,

you know, as uncomfortable as it is, to continue to talk about these issues, and pressure our community to understand that this is a sickness that is plaguing everyone. then go back to your elected officials. both at the state and federal level. states to all kinds of things, but it is federal law that can tether them altogether. i just want to say, you, know there was blood on desantis's hands, because he is the one walking around, stoking culture wars, trying to erase black history, essentially is telling floridians that people don't matter. that is untenable, unconscious audible. he too should be held to account. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining me. i know we have a lot of things that we were going to discuss today, so all welcome you back shortly. as we plug into the top of the hour, thank you so much for your time. i'm going to hand it over to lindsey reiser are just a moment. she mentioned the florida governor, you will be holding on to news conference at 2:15. it may have to do with that tropical storm that is barreling