a photo for the history, books and a former president who is once again out on bond. donald trump gets his mugshot moment, after surrendering to authorities in fulton county, georgia. former atlanta mayor and judge keisha -- was outside the jail, as that surreal scene unfolded this week. and, she is coming up first. plus, the law firm of -- is back. they are here to preview high stakes hearings tomorrow, for both fani willis and jack smith. also today, tragedy in jacksonville, florida, where a white gunman kills three black people, in what authorities are investigating as a hate crime. florida congressman maxwell

frost is standing by with his reaction. and later, my wide-ranging conversations with new hampshire governor chris sununu. i get his take on the first gop debate, and ask him where his party goes from here. ♪ ♪ ♪ so every once in a while, things happen in politics that sort of stop you dead in your tracks. things you just know you are going to remember for a very long time. in 20 years of working in this world, i've seen a lot of them up close. but these moments do seem to be happening much more frequently now than i can remember. the word unprecedented has never been more precedent did. there are also times when the stop everything you're doing moments to stand, not because they do tell the whole story. and, there are times when you get more than one of them, in a single week. the story of this week, and the story of the republican party right now, can be told through

two images, two singular moments in time. the first of course, is the release of the mugshot of former president donald trump. it was taken late this week, after he was arrested and booked on charges that he attempted to overturn the results of an election he lost. and the second, all but two republican candidates at a debate stage, raising their hands, promising to support trump even if he is convicted in a court of law. two images, when put side by side, say more than i or anyone else ever could, about what is happening in this country right now. a former president of the united states, defiant in the face of four indictments and 91 criminal counts, wearing a mugshot like a badge of honor. fundraising off of his alleged crimes. and, six of eight republican challengers, alleging to support him, if and likely, when he defeats them. when it comes to the republican party, that is the whole story. now, we don't get where this is all going, and we don't know exactly how this legal process, or this electoral process

frankly will end. but those two images, from this week, do tell us exactly where we are right now. >> join me now is the former late -- she is also a magistrate judge in atlanta. and she was outside the jail, as donald trump was booked this week. mayor bottoms, it's great to see you, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. so i want to start with what happened this week. you are outside of the fulton county jail on thursday evening watching this. as a former mayor, and former magistrate judge, describe to us what the scene was like on the ground. >> well thank you for having me. it really was surreal jen. you're right, i used to work inside of that jail, signing warrants, presiding over first appearance hearings. and, to see the circus atmosphere. obviously it was something we don't normally see outside of the fulton county jail. there was a lot of anger, a lot of hatred in the air, when i pulled up, many of those outside the jail thought that i

was the jessica tierney fani willis. and they began to very angrily chance, lock her up, lock her up. and so, it was something that i've never seen before outside of the jail. but, kudos to sheriff patrick -- in the coronation of agencies across the metro area, who really kept the area safe and secure. >> so, it sounds like a lot of the people you interacted with, or you saw, we're not proponents of fani willis is. you do know her for many years. how do you think she deals with. i know she's tough, but how do you think she deals with these attacks from donald trump, and from some of his followers? >> i described fanny as fearless, even when we were very young attorneys, working in the community based law firm. even when we should have had fear, fanny was always a fearless attorney. and you have to remember, fani is not new to this.

fanny began her career working in a small law firm. as i mentioned, she has worked as a solicitor, she has worked as a judge. she has been a seasoned prosecutor for many years, prosecuting, leading the prosecution of some of the most notorious cases in fulton county. even the trial, the regal trial of 35 educators in fulton county, i believe 12 of them went to trial, with 11 of them being convicted. and a very big cheating scandal. it was one of the longest trials in the history of our state, going about eight months. so fanny knows what she is doing, she is prosecuted murderers and rapists, she has a big gaping trial going on right now, with some very popular rappers in the city. so she is not afraid. and i believe the more are that there is an attempt to intimidate her, i think the more that you will see her really focus on getting a

conviction, or making sure that she sends a very big and stern message, that this won't be allowed in the state of georgia. >> it's so amazing how everyone who knows her well, describes her as just being tough and spear-less. it does say a lot about her. so, you also know georgia law quite well. i think we are all watching this, thinking, what could possibly happen if trump violates the parameters, the strict ones that were set, as the terms of his relief's. so if he violates the, it's not a fan you will, it is up to the judge, but what are the options? what will be possible? here >> we'll, what we've seen with defendants in the state of georgia, and we've seen the district attorney's office do this. you will go and ask that their bond be revoked. and remember, all of these defendants are out on bond, with conditions set, accordingly. and, they have very publicly said, you can't intimidate witnesses. and there was a list of things that these defendants could not do. and i expect that, whether it be donald trump, or any of the

other defendants. if they violate any of those terms, you will see the district attorney's office go before a judge, ask that those bonds be revoked. we have seen it happen, as i mentioned, there is a big case going on right, now a big rico trial with ysl group going on right now in fulton county. we've seen the district attorney asked for some of those bonds to be revoked. and, they have made it very clear that they will not treat these defendants any differently. and so, i think that it would be at their own risk of freedom, to test the limits of the district attorney, in this case. we have a judge, who is new to the bench, so we don't have a lot of background on how he operates, and what his tendencies are. but i do expect that fani willis, and her office, will be very aggressive. >> so we don't know what the judge will do. of course, we really would. but, it's feasible that trump

or others who violate these terms could be thrown in jail? >> yeah, absolutely. and you have to remember, even this judge, even though the law says that these defendants should be booked, and mugshot, and should be taken. this judge had the authority to, even way back happening, as i understand, the judge has the opportunity to issue an order, and to waive certain conditions. and this judge has not done. that so i don't suspect that they will be treated any differently, just as they have not been treated differently during this entire process. >> so you've also said, which stood out to, me that you wouldn't be surprised if trump's new lawyer, his new legal team, steve -- tries to negotiate a plea. why do you think, and what do you think that might look like? >> well i've seen him negotiate please before. he has gone to trial before, he is not afraid to try cases. but i've also seen him negotiate please, in very high profile cases. and quite frankly, when i saw

that he was now representing donald trump, the first thing i thought was that there may be a plea negotiations in the works. i don't know that to be the case, but that may not be usual for this attorney. and when you look at the amount of times that these defendants are facing, this is a rico trial. a minimum of five years in prison, that's a significant amount of time. and when you have this many defendants, and clearly they are not all on the same page, because we are seeing motions being filed -- it would not be unusual for some of these defendants to strike plea deals, including donald trump. >> -- mayor keisha -- it's always a pleasure, thank you so much for spending time with me this afternoon. and coming, up neil -- on crucial hearings tomorrow, in the georgia case, at jack smith's election difference case. plus, my conversation with new hampshire governor chris sununu. i ask about the trump mugshot,

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trump has falsely claimed to basically anyone who will listen, that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen. >> make no mistake, this election was stolen from you, from me, and from the country. we had a regulation. the presidential election was rigged and stolen. i said you owe me votes, because the election was rigged. that election was rigged. they rigged the presidential election of 2020. it was a rigged election. but in some remarks on thursday, after his arrest, his booking and mugshot. he gave a slightly different statement. listen quote low, see if you

can spot the difference. >> this should never happen. so if you challenge election, you should be able to challenge election, so it was a regulation, a stolen election. >> i thought the election was a rigged election. did you hear that. the i thought, is a new quote. and that subtle change in tune to be indicative of new advice trump is getting channel 4. he was booked at the fulton county jail, it was announced that he shook up his georgia legal dream, adding veteran -- stephen say now. say that was known for representing high-profile musical artists, like brig, ross-a-thon -- so some of the biggest names in hip-hop. with the form president of united states. and that shakeup may be reflective of a new change of tactics. so district turning fani willis doesn't turn to be a -- response to one defense motion -- told the court that our team is ready to go -- that's a very aggressive stance

from. by popular demand, joining me now is who else, but the law firm, -- is the former acting solicitor general, and andrew weissmann. and i'm so thrilled. ellis -- so, i want to get in as many as possible and -- sidney powell filed her own request, there also reports that john eastman is asking for the same thing. . what does that mean at trump's case there is the georgia one that you talk about that for trial. to begin on january six of 2024. with respect to this request from ken chesbrough who, is one of the architects of the january 6th coup, he said, i want a trial right away, on october 23rd. fani willis, the prosecutor

says yeah game on, the judge says fine game on. so what this means is that the first january six trial will happen, and it will likely be. >> in georgia. and it will likely be just mr. chesbrough, or perhaps with city power who has also asked for a fast trial, but it won't likely involve donald, trump or the other oh 16 defendants, that are named in the indictment. but that means, it's a signal, this stuff is starting to happen, and for if you don't, we're gonna be very worriedhappt we're gonna be very worrie andrew, why should donald trump be worried? >> the court of public opinion, there's also the issue of the legal courts let's focus on the court of public opinion. what donald trump is trying to do is limit this in the court of public opinion.

as neal pointed out, that is very soon going to be enough for him that he cannot control. he won't even be a defendant in that courtroom. there is facts and law that is going to be going on at the end of october in georgia. they are actually going to be a hearing tomorrow with mark meadows. facts and law will be presented. donald trump will not be there to spin his version. so, what's going to go on in court, also his whole play. it is to try this in a place where he can make up the facts and the law that he wants. that's going to be really hard for him going forward. do you have these divergent defendants wanted to get into court sooner. >> neil, andrew referenced this mark meadows trial. there is a lot happening tomorrow. let's start with the mark meadows trial. he is going to move the venue

from the state venue to a federal court. what are you watching for in this trial? what happens exactly, if any of these codefendants are axing for that and are successful? >> it's an old law of congress that says if you are a federal officer performing a federal function and you have a federal defense, if you have been indicted in state court, you can't move that to federal court. it still means the state prosecutors control at all. so, for example, if donald trump wins in 24, some other republican, he can't determinate the state prosecution. it does change things. so, most importantly, what cares about the, most there are cameras in the courtroom. there are not cameras in the federal -- >> they all care about it. they do not want the american public to see this trial. they are scared like chancellors of sunlight. i think that's part of it. part of it's also to try to many polite who's on the jury and things like that. so, i don't think this removal

motion that mark meadows is filed is going to be successful. it does require you to be performing a federal function. last time i checked, we are organizing a coup, even if you heard the chief of staff to the president. it is in part of your official -- >> the chief of staff is in calling the secretary of state of georgia as a non lawyer. i can state that as a person who's worked in politics. andrew, i wanted to ask you about one of the subtle changes i noticed. again, i am not a lawyer in trump's tone. he basically said, he went from saying the election is rigged, so i thought the election is rigged. he also changed legal representation. what do you read into that? does it mean anything? >> so, good pick up on that. i do think that if you are his lawyer, you do want to switch to an argument that this is what he believed. the believed at the time that the election was rigged. he's not saying it's not necessary for him to prove. in fact, it was.

he could've been mistaken. i don't think that's going to fly. it's way too late in the day. this is the, you can introduce all of the statements. the questions the jury would have is, i'm sorry why now? after all this time, is there evidence that suddenly the camp came out yesterday. that change their mind? so, i understand why the lawyer might want to do that. i don't think it's going to work if you're going to make that argument. you have to do it a long time ago. and then when council changed, no one knows for sure. obviously it could be a question of money. donald trump has a history of not paying for his counsel. i think it also could be if donald trump felt like he wasn't sufficiently controlling his counsel. . and, one of the things that everyone pointed out,, the bail conditions and that trump's were very different. i personally think the previous lawyer was right not to

challenge that. to accept folly willis's ultimatum that these are the criteria. the downside for the lawyer was that he would have a hearing and there would be issues and it would be presented to the. court and that's something you would not want to do if you are representing donald trump. having laid out all the ways in which he had harassed various witnesses, judges, prosecutors and et cetera. we will see. the new lawyer is. good it's odd to change lawyer so late in the day. . >> neil, not to leave out a major development here. the date of the trial for the case against trump in overturning the election. what are you expecting and watching for as we look to hear more from the. >> this is the big enchilada. tomorrow judge chutkan in d.c. is going to set the date for the federal january six trial. the prosecutors have asked for

a january 2nd of 2024. donald trump's lawyers. >> 2020. six. i'm sorry that is laughable it's not credible and i think judge chutkan is going to have none of it tomorrow in particular what jack smith points out. the request for april 2026 was based on totally cooked data, they said regal prosecutions take this long. they only looked at the covid area. it included all the delays. it included the quarantines and the like it's not a credible motion. it was made even harder, as andrew pointed out a moment ago by donald trump repeatedly violating the conditions of pretrial silence and trying to poison the jury pool. what chutkan has said is i he's going to move the trial up. i suspect that this will happen on or about the prosecutors request of 20 2024 as the american public deserves. >> eat your wheaties and spinach smoothie tomorrow. >> andrew weissmann and neil

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so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ and racism have once again. collided, this time in jacksonville,. florida we felt like this is important to talk about today. it's important that we never become too numb to either of these cancers. on saturday afternoon, a gunman opened fire at $1 general store in jacksonville and killed three innocent people before killing himself. the jacksonville sheriff said he wore a tactical. best was armed with an ar-style rifle and block handgun and had one clear motive. target, black people. the high powered weapons he used to kill two black men and one woman were covered in swastikas. the fbi has opened a federal civil rights investigation into the shooting and will investigate as a hate crime.

someone who continues to talk about this crisis even when it's difficult is florida congressman and gun safety activists maxwell frost. he joins me now. congressman, thank you for taking the time this afternoon. i wanted to talk to you in part because i feel like it's easy to get numb to these mass shootings. especially in this case. it should be sobering to everyone that in 2023, a shooter with swastikas others gunned targeting black people. do you feel as someone who's so close to these mass shootings that this epidemic is getting worse? >> it is getting worse. we just found out a little over a year ago that the leading cause of death, the way like to explain this if you have a child under the age of 18 and god forbid they were to die the most likely reason is because of a bullet. and that is a shame and a failure and one of the most resourceful and rich countries on the face of the earth. and it is horrible.

we lose 100 lives a day due to gun violence and we see an uptick in hate crimes of people who are arming themselves and literally going out on the streets to find black people to hunt. we saw it happen in buffalo. we saw it happened yesterday. in, fact the racist bigots went to an hbcu first. was turned away by security and then walked into this dollar store to murder three black people. it's not a surprise. we have leaders in the state that are stoking the flames of racial hatred. , bigotry and antisemitism. and it's no longer just a culture war. they are waging a real war on people of color and on poor people of the state. >> you said you think you think governor ron desantis should come back to florida and call a session. i'm not going to ask how likely you think that. is what would you like to see happen if there is a special susteren. what would be the idea? >> it's the same ask i've had

for the governor for years. it's to actually take action on gun violence prevention he needs to do that. he also needs to take actual steps to move away and stop champion and stop embracing the far-right ring movement that is the home of the shooter from yesterday. that is the home of these neo-nazis that are marching around disney and marching around central florida almost every week. now the governor has been embracing this movement. it was andrew gillum on the debate stage who said i'm not calling him a racist undoes saying the racist thing he's a racist. and that still rings true today. in fact i looked at someone like governor desantis. not saying anything about it and releasing a 45-second video yesterday in iowa on the side of a building. that's not enough. we need real leadership and the hope is that they can call a special session and come together and possible laws that will help end gun violence. the last time i brought this up was during my campaign.

the governor came here to central florida to do a private event that you have to pay to get into. i interrupted the governor and i said, not cursing not, yelling pleading. please do something about gun violence and he's done nothing it's worse than nothing they passed this permit-less carry bill it said that any person could have any gun anywhere anytime in florida. it's no shock that gun violence has gone up since the bill is passed. >> in addition to the list. carrot there have been a number of problematic pieces of legislation signed by the governor in recent months. you are also calling for the department of justice to investigate what's happening in florida. it sounds as i heard you describe, your light making a connection between the changing of these laws and an increase and violence. what do you want the department of justice to specifically look into in florida. >> they need to look at the totality of what's going on. it's all completely connected here.

the governor's, the department of education came out, the state of florida and mila sculleries will learn that black folks who are enslaved received a personal benefit from it. what that does is show that black lives should be devalued. they should not be seen as full humans. it's not just about the kids. it is about adults as well. it give credence and a pass to these bigots so they can commit horrible acts of terrorism like what we saw yesterday. so, the department of justice does need to look into this. they need to look at all of these laws. look at how the governor has been abusing power to remove people from office who he disagrees with because here's the thing again. right now it's florida. right now we have these isolated incidents throughout the state. this is how these dangerous movements start so it is incumbent upon our government and the federal government to nip it in the bud now. in the state of florida and say we don't want authoritarian far right wing movements to take over government.

it's not about left versus right. it's not about democrats versus republicans this is about the people versus the problem and we've seen conservatives come out and say they don't like what's going on in this state. it's a state of fear right now. elected officials are fearful. companies are fearful so there's a lot that needs to be done here. our power as democrats right now in the federal government are in with the administration. i hope that the department of justice will launch an investigation and use the tools they have at their disposal to help us. we need help in the state right now. >> congressman maxwell frost thank you for being fearless during a very fearful time. up, next i will ask new hampshire's republican governor chris knew about the mugshot scene around the world. later, one pot talking point from the republican debate that i feel compelled to call out. we are back after a quick break. break. >> and escalate, and with a

look at the top stories. a diary of a mad man. that is how police are describing the manifesto of the gunman who shot and killed three people at $1 store in jacksonville, florida. police say the 21-year-old targeted black people. legally purchased the firearm that he used to carry out the massacre. genetic testing confirms yevgeny prigozhin was killed in that plane crash last week. according to russian investigators. the kremlin is denying any involvement in the crash. i'm de-escalating, more inside with jen psaki right after this. ht after this to keep up with their finances. smart bankers. convenient tools. boom. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours.

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convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hands if you would. [applause] hold on. just be clear,, governor christie was late to the game. >> i'm doing this. look, i am doing this. that was easily the most memorable moment of the night. even if we did see some important distinctions between the candidates, it's hard to see how any of that matters as long as donald trump leads the race. i sat down with someone who firmly believes it's trump who won't matter once the votes are cast. new come new hampshire's governor kristen new new. >> you have not been afraid to speak out about donald trump's indictments about his actions and attempt to overturn the election. and the classified documents. i could name more.

it took 51 minutes in that debate for any of those topics to come out. what did you make of that? >> i thought it was perfect. that's about donald trump. that's not about the future of this country. it's not about. look republicans are trying to save the country. he's trying to save himself when it comes to a debate, we don't want to be rehashing yesterday's news we want to move forward and we want to move to 2024. we want to think about what we can bring to the table with economy and independents and all these sorts of things. it's a huge opportunity. they didn't fall for the traps are thinking about the big guy. the forward-looking message works well. i did a few campaigns myself. there's a reality here. trump is still double digits ahead. some of these issues that are backward looking, as he described, them some of the other candidates describe them. it's about policy issues. the handling of classified documents. the sharing of nuclear secrets potentially. how you're handling democracy.

don't you see the views of these candidates as relevant and important to voters? >> sure, when it comes to all of that, donald trump will have to have his day in court. see how all the indictments play out. these candidates right now it should really be focusing on what they are about. a lot of folks didn't even. now i'm in the world you are in the world we're talking about all these candidates all the time. the average republican voter had very even seen vivek ramaswamy. they got to see him the first time. maybe they'll item, maybe they didn't. he got it excited. i think he did very well considering he's never stood on a debate stage. i've stood on some debate stages it's a hard thing to do. >> let's focus on ramaswamy. unless you are a political nerd, you might not have heard of him or have been watching him. he had been moving up in the polls. in new hampshire, including in new hampshire as chris christie had been as well. he was very energetic at the debate last week. he also had some things to say

about policy issues that were pretty problematic as it relates to the electorate. he said climate change is a hoax. do you think that is something that you would want to see on the platform of your party? >> look, there is no doubt he took some positions that for me are a challenge. do they connect with the republican base, i don't know, they could win in november of 24. that's exciting, donald trump can't win into 20. for if you are supporting donald trump today you're effectively handing it kamala harris potentially. so, i think that the opportunity is a new face of fresh ideas. vivek, haley, pence, desantis, they all did very well. >> the other event this week that i don't think anyone can characterize is good for trump is getting his mugshot taken and released in -- fulton county courthouse. >> selling t-shirts within minutes. >> that may be true, do you think it's good for him politically. do you think having a mugshot out there changes anything in the republican electorate? >> it doesn't change anything. it allows him to maintain his presence in the media and his

image and people will be talking about it. not just what he does with the mugshot but all the drama that he wants to keep building off of it. he wants the drama to keep going. give him a fixed and six indictment. he will love it. >> what about with independents? new hampshire, live free or die? >> all he cares about is getting the nomination. he can't win in november. independents hate it. there's no way donald trump will win anything above 31% of the independents. which is why republicans as a whole will get crushed. look, as bad as he would be as on top of the ticket because it relieves the presidency, he hurt school board races. he hurts governorships and congressional races senate, races he will lose all the seats like he did in 20. to >> your friend governor chris christie, i think he's your friend. it's safe to say they're all your friends. he is also not hesitating and calling out his concerns about donald trump's behavior and his actions and criminal indictments. he also waited until an hour and almost to the debate. did that surprise you?

>> to talk about trump. it's definitely the right strategy. for example, with chris christie, he is known as the aggressive going to bash on trump. he's very validated in that. he took the opportunity to be mindful. he was a ceo. he had made tough decisions. he got stuff done with democrats and the legislature. it's about saying no matter what hand you deal, me i can win. it isn't just give me republicans and then mail gets it done. he took that opportunity. macon governor desantis, they're known as the anti woke eyes. they need to broaden their mansion a little bit to talk about fiscal discipline and draining the swamp and limited government and returning power to the states. >> you talked about how the issue of abortion is a bit of a tricky one for the republican party. i do not want to put words in your mouth. the candidates did seem to have a little bit of trouble with that this week in the debate. obviously, mike pence has a

strong view on abortion. nikki haley, they had a back and forth about it. what did you make of the argument? did you see anything in there that you'd want to see the republican platform and be, the republican nominee be saying as the policy of the party. >> one of the consistent things, a lot of them really do understand. it's going to come down to the states. what california does is going to be different than mississippi. they debated a little bit whether there should be a minimum threshold. i don't believe we should be touching it at the federal level a few of them agree with that. a few of them think there should be a ban. it's a states issue. i'm a governor, a misstates guy. understanding that california is going to be different, that's exactly what -- when it overturned roe v. wade, they said look. you can now decide if that's where you want to go. >> you called for narrowing the field. who do you think needs to be taking a look in the mirror and see if they need to be in the race? >> the candidates that weren't on the stage last night, to start. with they have to have some tough conversations.

most of them will make the right decisions. unless there's some real spark that you see getting into the higher thresholds than the second debate. i think by thanksgiving two or three others have to drop out. if there are low single digits, they're probably gonna say we gave it a try it's not working. and then you get about five or six candidates going with trump and going into iowa. maybe three or four going into new hampshire if it goes down to one on one, you can't get over 50%. republicans will find a different option. by, then they've explored the candidates. they've gotten excited, they rallied around one. the numbers start moving forward. he's not going any higher. there is got to be momentum. political omentum is very real. so, it all could steam out right at the right time but between iowa and new hampshire going into super tuesday. >> well, we will see if any of these candidates take the advice of governor chris new new. up, next right-wing twitter was very mad at me this week. i will explain why after the break. it's not just designed to look good...

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the first republican debate. i sat on a tweet that seemed to really strike a nerve in the right ring. here it is. no one supports abortion up until birth. i wrote that because there is a pervasive and misleading talking point that is used by a number of right-wing leaders including presidential candidates on the stage suggesting that democrats are advocating for and even rooting for late term abortions of babies who could live outside the womb. just take a less to some of the answers in the debate on wednesday night. >> we are better than what the democrats are. selling we are not going to allow abortion all the way up till. birth we will hold them accountable for their extremism. >> we cannot let states like california, new york, and illinois have abortions on demand up until the date of birth. >> what i would love, for

someone to us kamala harris on a 4:38 weeks or 39 weeks or 40 weeks. >> this wasn't just some throwaway line for applause on the debate stage. this is a talking point. republican presidential candidates use repeatedly on the trail. the platform formally known as twitter doesn't exactly lead the space and the room to lay it down the facts. ideal of facts. i want to make sure that all of you are equipped with them. this claim that democrats support abortion up until the moment of birth is entirely misleading. first of, all abortions past the point of a fetal viability do not happen often. they are incredibly rare. those that do you have been involved agonizing a motional and ethical decisions. according to the cdc, the vast majority of abortions in the united states, over 80% in 2020, happened before ten weeks of pregnancy. over 90% take place in the first 12 weeks. less than 1%, 1%, happen after

21 weeks of pregnancy. if you look state by, say you see a similar pattern. as compiled by the washington post, and portion after 28 weeks has been performed in three of the last 22 years. in oklahoma, and 2020, one only six out of nearly 6000 abortions took place after 21 weeks. in colorado, where they boulder abortion bid clinics specializes in late term abortions, less than 2% of nearly 12,000 abortions in 2021 took place after 21 weeks. just a 60 took place after 25 weeks or later. again, this doesn't happen often. when it does, you can see how painful this really is through personal stories. director of the boulder clinic told the washington post that in his experience, virtually all women seeking a late term abortion are devastated by the prospect. he said, quote, an average week at my office, 25 to 50% of the

patients had some serious catastrophic fetal abnormality. there are some weeks in which this is true for 100% of the patients. these are uniformly desired pregnancies. the patients are generally grief-stricken to be ending the pregnancy. mothers have described in heart-wrenching detail having to make the decision to end their pregnancy to save their own life, or because they were told the baby that they were so excited for would not survive or would suffer. our most democrats in favor of legislation that allows for this? yes, for all the reasons i just outlined. at the end of the, day the point here is that nobody is rooting for late term abortions. no one is running on the platforms of a boarding bible babies. no one is selling late term abortions as ron desantis claims. no one. not joe biden not kamala harris. not hillary clinton, not any other politician demonized by the right wing. roots for more late term abortions, none of them do.

what's happening here, an attempt by republican presidential candidates and other leaders who know their views on women's health care are out of touch with the public. they are trying to change the parameters of the debate. they are doing that by inaccurately describing the positions of leaders on the other side. as you just heard, as i just outlined, abortions in later stages of pregnancy are extremely rare. they are almost always the result of a devastating choice to save the life of the mother or because a baby that a couple desperately wanted cannot survive outside the womb. it's not a preference. it is a personal strategy for these couples. are wrong desantis and tim scott in favor of a mother dying because of her pregnancy? if a doctor determines a baby cannot survive outside of the, when should a mother be required to carry that baby to term. those choices should not be made by any politician or any legislature. they should be made by the woman carrying the baby and by her doctor. that is what democrats are

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you can watch it tonight on msnbc. that does it for me today, we'll be back here this next sunday on noon eastern. there is much more news coming up on msnbc. ming up on msnbc. >> tonight on the mehdi hassan show. a disgusting ideology of hate. that is how the jacksonville sheriff describe the beliefs of the man who killed three black people in florida yesterday. it is a far-right ideology that mainstream conservatives are far too quiet about. isn't it time for them to speak up? then, donald trump's long history of racism now coming to the big dose of irony, as a group of strong black women lead the way to a possible conviction. one of the many legal cases against him. plus, a big announcement from the biden administration coming this week, and how it might lower the cost of your prescriptions. ♪ ♪ ♪