>> we're coming. and we're not giving up. that's all for this this sunday, arrested development. donald trump is arrested for the fourth time and becomes the first president to have his mugshot taken. his 18 co-defendants including his former chief of staff also surrendered after being charged for their efforts to overturn the 2020 georgia election results. >> what has taken place here is a travesty of justice. >> and at the party's first debate, trump's rivals promised to support him even if he's a convicted felon. >> would you still support him as your party's choice? >> as trump navigates his legal

challenges, will any of his political challengers find a path to be here? plus, stealing the spotlight. he grabbed all of the attention in the first republican primary debate. >> if you have a broken car, you don't turn over the keys to you don't turn over the keys to the people who broke it again, you hand over the keys to the generation to fix the problem. >> now is not the time for on-the-job training. >> i've had enough of a guy that sounds like chatgpt. >> vivek ramaswamy, who has never held political office. >> you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> i'll talk to the political outsider who clashed the most with his gop rival. >> and 2024 vision. senator bernie sanders issues a warning to democrats about how to win the future. >> there has got to be an ideological change, of course. >> i'll ask president biden's chief rival from 2020 what he wants to see the democrats focus on for a second biden term.

joining me for insight and analysis are former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida, pat mccrory, danielle pletka of the american enterprise institute, and marcos moulitsas, the founder of daily coast. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. donald trump's inevitability, the idea that he cannot be beaten in this republican primary, has been a source of strength for him. at wednesday night's debate could look like without trump on wednesday, but we still live on this version of earth and until one of trump's opponents is recognized as a viable challenge by republican primary voters, it is a debate that may have to be put on hold until 2024. that said, a failure of imagination turned the idea that

trump could never win in 2016 into faulty conventional wisdom, and it's that same failure of imagination now to believe that he can't lose the republican primary that we should be cautious of. the main threat to trump has always been his legal troubles, and his campaign may be cashing in on his mugshot released on his booking night right now, but it is a visual representation of the four indictments and 90 felony counts and the political trouble they may represent, thanks to a bunch of unknown unknowns with the legal. 19 co-defendants have turned themselves in in the georgia racketeering case. two have requested a speedy trial, leading to questions whether they might cooperate. kenneth chesebro, he is the lawyer who wrote the campaign memo who they used and used to subvert the 2020 election and sydney powell wants a speedy trial. she's the lawyer who assessed

voter data in a county in georgia as well as filing lawsuits suggesting fraud. john eastman, another lawyer having to use a slate of trump electors is likely to request a speedy trial, as well. consider a televised trial, georgia law, of these defendants starting as early as this october and potentially before any trial that features donald trump's starts? and fani willis could lay out the case against trump for the nation ahead of the start of the primary calendar. that's an unknown unknown that i'm pointing out here. some of trump's opponents tiptoeing before pointing out that a campaign year full of courtroom year full of courtroom motions and trials might not be the greater general election politics for the gop. >> we have to face the fact that trump is the most disliked politician in america. we can't win a general election that way. >> and yet, at least six of the eight republicans on stage in milwaukee including haley,

raised their hands to confirm they would support trump in 2024 even if he is convicted by a swrur of his peers, and they made the odd decision to pile on political newcomer vivek ramaswamy, who may be surging, but is still cracking double digits. >> now is not time for on-the-job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie and people without experience. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here. >> you make america less, and you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> and you know what? >> the arrows may have come because ramaswamy took every opportunity on the stage to defend and praise the man who wasn't there, donald trump. >> president trump, i believe, was the best president of the 21st century. that's a fact. >> joining me now is the republican presidential candidate that was at the center of the debate, vivek ramaswamy. mr. ramaswamy, welcome back to "meet the press." >> it's good to talk to you,

chuck. let me start with the tragedy that took place in jacksonville. this is what sheriff waters, how he described the incident last night. that the shooting was racially motivate, and he hated black people. he wanted to kill [ bleep ]. he targeted a certain group of people, and that's black people, and that's what he said he wanted to kill, and that's very clear. i don't know that the targets were very specific, but i know that any member of that race at that time was in danger. >> both the fbi and dhs in the last two years have said that racially motivated violent extremism is on the rise. this is clearly part of that. what would a president ramaswamy want the justice department to do about this racially motivated violence that we're seeing on the rise? >> i think that every criminal deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law especially when they're carrying

out premeditated crimes like this one. this is a heinous crime. my heart goes out to the families who were affected by this. it is tragic, and this should not be happening in the united states of america. i think the fact of the matter is, chuck, it is a system simsome of a deeper new form, and my job as the next president is to lead with a national tone of character that reminds us of how we are all united across our diverse attributes. i think part of the problem is we have obsessed so much over racial and other genetic differences that we have forgotten all of the ways we're really the same as a country, and i do think we need a leader in the white house developing that national character for this country again. we also do have a mental health epidemic across this country, chuck, that really is reflective of a hunger for purpose and meaning. we need to fill that void, address the mental health epidemic, but this is a tragedy and deserves to be called heinous.

that's exactly what it was. >> why do you think there are more race-based crimes on the right than on the left? whoo is this a little more pervasive -- a lot more pervasive on the right? >> the fact of the matter is i think that there's a lot more violence that's pervasive in part of the country that supposedly are left-wing voter basis. i don't think this is a left versus rightish, and u don't think we should politicize this through partisan goggles especially in the wake of a tragedy like this one. >> do you ignore the manifesto? >> there are people dying on the south side of chicago. >> do you ignore the elements that's allowed this manifesto to spread online and that what we're -- it does feel as if social media connects some of these hateful ideologies. >> the fact of the matter is i do think we have two standards that we're applying if we're having a conversation about manifestos. we still have not even seen the manifesto of the transgender

shooter of a christian school and we're looking at this the as a motive. let's look at the political media and the political establishment are doing in how they analyze different crimes and create a new narrative. what i said in the nashville shooter killing i'll say here. it is heinous, we need to get to the root cause and set the right tone in the country, but if we're going to talk about manifestos and politicization, i i think it is incomplete not to look at that nashville shooter manifesto even as of today, so i've personally traveled to nashville to call for it, and that's the real evidence in terms of real politicalization in terms of what the public sees and what the public doesn't. i want to establish this through one standard of the rule of law for everybody. >> do you believe racism is a mental health issue? >> i do believe that racism in many cases is manufactured in a

way that creates more racism in this country. i cannot think of a greater way, chuck, of driving racism in this country than to take something else away from someone based on the color of their skin. so is there existing racism in the united states? of course, there is, but those last burning embers of racism and the last thing i want to do is throw kerosene on it, and yet that's exactly what i believe the modern culture is doing, creating race-based quotas and systems based on the color of their skin. the right answer to stop discrimination of race, as john roberts said, is to stop discrimination on the basis of race. >> your argument comes across -- your argument comes across as blaming those that are trying to u create equality for the rise in racism.

>> well, the fact is, chuck, i don't want to be playing the blame game. i want to be going towards a solution, and i'm genuinely worried that those who earnestly espouse the view -- i'm going to quote abraham kendy directly. i'm not putting words in anybody's mouth, the right answer to present discrimination is future discrimination. i think the people who hold that view are earnest about it, but i think they're wrong and that's creating more discrimination and more division in our country, and i think the right answer is actually to restore colorblind equality, colorblind mary tock kra see, embrace what unites us across our diversity, and celebrate our skin-deep diverse attributes. it's not blaming anybody else for having a dint point of view, but as a leader it's my job to articulate exactly how we will unite this country and that's exactly how i will do it. >> let me move to the debate, and a lot of people are asking this president, if you think

donald trump is the greatest president of the 21st century, he's running. why are you running against him? why do you think his second term won't be as good as his first? >> well, look, i did say he's the best president of the 21st century from george bush to barack obama, from donald trump to joe biden, i don't think it's even close. who was the best? i judge by results. that being said, i believe i can take the america first agenda even further than donald trump did. i think i will be more effective in uniting this country in the process. look at the way we're running this campaign. i'm not leaving any state behind, any city behind, no american left behind, from the south side of chicago to kensington to places where traditional republicans don't go. i think i am best positioned to deliver a landslide election in multi-ethnic working-class majority, and i do think a landslide is what we need in this country and not a 50.1

election, and i'm the only candidate in this race who can do that. >> a political neophyte outsider became president and didn't get a lot of things done that he wanted to get done in donald trump, why do you think somebody with less experience than donald trump had is somehow going to make the federal government function in a way that you're outlining? >> so i think there are three things i would say. the first is we have that experience to learn from. first, i want to build on the foundation that trump laid. i would invite him as a mentor and i want to take on the administrative state. the second thing, chuck, i do think it's an outsider to take on the administrative state, but i also think it needs to be an outsider who has a deep, first personal understanding of the laws and constitution of this country. i think trump was in many cases duped by his managerial advisers, for example, who said you can't fire employees in the federal government due to civil service protections.

read the law. turns out those civil service protections only apply to individual firings, not to mass layoffs. mass layoffs are absolutely what i will bring to the dc bureaucracy, and i think the fact that i am from a different generation, chuck, will be an asset. i am able to reach young americans. i am able to reach people who haven't traditionally been brought into the mold of republican politics. i don't even talk about republicans and democrats, and so i think i'll be able to build a greater moral mandate across generations that helps unite americans around the america first agenda rather than make it a strictly partisan affair. >> let me bring up a question that you didn't get to answer. most said mike pence did the right thing on january 6th. do you agree? >> i would have done it very differently. i think there was a historic opportunity that he missed to reunite this country. this is a moment for a true national consensus where there are two elements of what's required for a functioning democracy in america.

one is secure elections, and the second is a peaceful transfer of power. when those things come into conflict of power, there's an opportunity for heroism. here's what i would have said. we need single-day voting on election day. we need paper ballots, and we need government-issued i.d. matching the voter file, and if we achieve that then we have achieved victory and we should not have any further complaint about election integrity. >> what would you have done with mike pence? you would have not certified the election? >> in my capacity as president of the senate i would have led through that level of reform, then on that condition certified the election results, served it up to the president -- president trump to sign that into law -- and on january 7th, declare the re-election campaign pursuant to a free and fair election, and i think that's the missed opportunity and that's what we need to reunite the country rather than sweeping those concerns under the rug. >> in your book which wasn't written that long ago you wrote the fact that all of our

governmental institutions so unanimously found no evidence of significant fraud is telling. furthermore, i have talked to many republicans at all levels of government and not one has ever presented convincing evidence that the 2020 election was stolen. i think many have tried, and i don't think republican politicians actually think the election was stolen. you went from there and 11 months later your views have changed on january 6th. again, this book was written september of 2022. >> chuck, i'm ready to address that, if you're interested. >> yeah. >> reading exactly that chapter in the book i drew a sharp distinction between what i did see in the interference of the election that mattered which was interference by big tech. i'm data driven. there's hard data showing that many voters, many independent result enough to influence the outcome of the election if they had been exposed about the hunter biden laptop story. by contrast i have also been clear, i have not yet seen

evidence that there was ballot fraud of a scale that would change that result. i'm responding to data on both fronts. the fact of the matter if we're looking at reuniting this country there are serious concerns on both sides and especially on the right of ballot fraud and big tech interference and there is a very clear result in the way we can azres that. i've offered a clear consensus that everyone can get behind, and if people think that this issue is a threat to our democracy, that should be an easy consensus to be able to rally around, and that's how i'll lead as president. >> first of all, you never talk about the tech stuff in your book. this is a new thing -- >> you have not talked about this hunter biden aspect of this. we were looking for it. >> i think you have not read -- i think you have not read "nation of victims" literally read the book and there was 20 pages of content devoted to this. >> it's fine. you don't have an obligation to read my book, but if you do, quote it correctly.

>> we have been and let me quote it again. you're referring to republicans. we used stolen election stories as a back door to embracing our own victim identity path, pursuing an easy path to power. throughout this entire book, you mock the entire january 6th aspect. you absolutely criticized donald trump for being a sore loser. you write about it in a way of making your point that we've become a nation of victims, and right now on tv you're doing the exact opposite. >> i'm not. chuck, i want to be very clear. i preach to conservative audiences -- i was in iowa over the last two days, and what did i tell them? we're not going to be victims. we're going to be victorious. whether i talk to the left or the right, i've said the same thing and i have been very clear, chuck, and i want to be clear today that i would have made very different judgments than donald trump did that day and on many matters on his path out of office and there's a

difference between a bad judgment and a crime, and what i've been clear about is when we criminalize those bad judgments, that's an abuse of the justice system and it undermines trust not only in our elections, but our justice system, and we have to be able to draw those distinctions, and it would take that leader who can preach to both tribes in this country to reunite this country. did donald trump make the right judgments? no. i said so then and i say so now, that we criminalize it? absolutely not. in order to do that on the election integrity issue we have an opportunity to put this debate behind us by single-day voting as a national holiday with paper ballots and government-issued i.d. and this should not be controversial, and if that should reunite this country as i think it will, that's how i would lead as president. that's my commitment. >> again, from your book, no one likes a sore loser and that's one of the worst victim complexes of all.

are you referring to donald trump? >> i referred in that chapter both to stacey abrams and to donald trump, and i think that the answer is we knead leaders who ultimately stand for victory over victimhood. we did have a victimhood culture that started on the left in this country. the oppression hierarchy, my worry is that can spread to the right and the way that this so-called culture war will end is not with a bang, but with a whimper. that related to my earlier conversation on seeing each other based on the color of our skin. i think that is deeply divisive. what we need in this country is to revive the shared ideals that unite all of us as americans. the pursuit of excellence, meritocracy, free speech, the rule of law. i genuinely believe, chuck, that most americans regardless of black or white, red or blue share those ideals in common and that's what i'm reviving. >> i understand that, but, again, let me go back to quoting you. the republican party seems to be moving toward the position that any wins are legitimate and

any losers were stolen. it's just a conservative brand of victimhood, a knee-jerk sore losing more common to mayground than great republics. you seem to at the time you wrote your book believe this was potentially damaging to the rule of law, this was not a way to have a democracy thrive, and you're now speaking in a way that gives essentially a permission slip to election deniers to believe there's some truth to something that you yourself have yet to find evidence of. >> chuck, i stand by everything i said. that was a book where 11 of the 12 chapters were dedicated to a lot of left-wing victimhood in this country, but it would have been incomplete for me to not call out my own tribe. my point is i don't want to see this in terms of red versus blue. we've created an incentive structure in this country, whoever you are, whatever your skin color, increasingly whatever your political affiliation to see yourself as a victim.

hardship is not the same thing as victimhood. we are going through hardship as a country right now including many conservatives. hardship is sometimes not a choice. victimhood is a choice. so whoever the american is that i'm talking to, i say we do not choose victimhood. we choose victory. that is who we are, and i think we can be stronger on the other side of it. chuck, this isn't some game of gotcha. i stand by everything i've written over the last three years in the books except on a few areas of facts where as the new facts that have come out i've changed my mind, but on the core theses, i am in the exact place as when i wrote the books and i am not in this race to lead a political party. i am in this race to lead a nation. i'm using the republican party as a vehicle to advance an america first agenda that i think many american, most americans can rally behind and that's what we will need. >> i know you've only voted in two presidential elections. where did you vote in 2020 and

how did you vote? >> i voted in ohio, and during the coronavirus pandemic, i voted by mail. that's exactly how i voted, and the fact of the matter is -- the fact of the matter is i think we should have one standard for everybody, for me, for much of my 20s i was disaffected by politics. i understand why young people are disaffected. i was uninspired by john kerry and george bush. i voted libertarian that year. or john mccain or barack obama. so i don't make any bones about it. i talk about it in my speeches. >> and you were also uninspired by donald trump in 2016, right? >> i was skeptical of donald trump in 2016. i had grown up in a generation where i felt like we were lied to from the weapons of mass destruction in iraq and those are republican, to the russia collusion hoax and i was deeply skeptical and i judged based on results, and i voted for him with confidence in 2020. >> vivek ramaswamy, you became the center of the debate. we will be following your

campaign as it goes on. be safe on the trail. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> thank you, chuck. i appreciate it. when we come back, what is the biden second term agenda? bernie sanders, president biden's rival in 2020 shares his thoughts and what he wants democrats to be running on. s ton

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welcome back. back in april senator bernie sanders who of course was biden's chief rival in the 2020 democratic primaries rolled out a third presidential bid and endorsed biden for reelection. sanders was back in new hampshire, one of those early presidential states where he won both the 2016 and 2020 primaries to share what he called his concrete agenda at the new hampshire institute of politics. when you go to new hampshire, it sparks speculation about his own political future. >> it is no secret that i want joe biden to be reelected president. if that is going to happen, if we are going to defeat authoritarianism and right-wing

extremism, there has got to be an i'd longitudinal cal change, of course. >> the independent from vermont, bernie sanders joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you for having me. >> so the fact that you felt the need to do this, should we read into the fact that you don't believe there's a second-term agenda yet, that americans can wrap their head around for what a second biden term would look like? >> no. i think what you can read into that is that biden has every right to be proud of a long series of accomplishments. you know, two and a half, three years ago, this country was in the worst economic downturn since the great depression because of covid. today unemployment is all of 3%. we're gaining new jobs and rebuilding manufacturing, we've invested in the infrastructure.

we're making progress, and peden has a right to be proud of that. the point of my remarks is that you cannot simply, as president of the united states, rest on your laurels. what you have got to understand is that today for structural reasons that have gone on for decades, tens and tens and millions of people are struggling to put food on the table. they can't afford health care. they can't afford prescription drugs. they can't afford housing. they can't afford child care. and meanwhile in the midst of all that, you have the incredible corporate greed, and the billionaire class has never done better. so my message yesterday for the democrats, not just the president, if you want to do well in this election, talk to the needs of the american people and have the guts to take on the

big money and that have so much power. >> it sounds like you think the phrase finish the job is something to rally around and there needs to be more than that. >> well, it's -- yes. you need to recognize that not only have we accomplished a great deal the first three years, and he deserves credit for that, but there are so many long-term problems that this country is facing. does anybody in america think that our health care system is working? and yet the insurance companies make tens of billion of dollars and drug companies make tens of billions of dollars and we don't have enough doctors, nurses, mental health providers, pharmacists, dentists. so we need fundamental reform in health care, and by the way, the existential issue of our time is whether or not we address climate change, and we have made some steps forward, but there is no question in my mind if we're going to allow our kids and grandchildren to live in a healthy plan net, we've got a lot, lot more to do. >> do you think there should be a robust discussion on this on the left if there were a competitive primary? do you think there should be? >> well, i think in this particular time, this particular moment in american history when

we're taking on somebody, the former president who, in fact, does not believe in democracy, he's an authoritarian and a very, very dangerous person, i think at this moment there's got to be a unification of progressive people in general all over the country, people who are prepared to make sure women control their own bodies, that we deal with climate change and we represent the needs of the working class in this country and take on the billionaire class. >> one way that you make it clear that age isn't a factor with you is you're pretty energetic and we see you travel the country and you show up and do interviews. it is clearly an issue for many voters when it comes to president biden. he's a year younger than you. do you have advice to him on how he should assuage those concerns in the public about his age? >> look, when people look at a candidate whether it's joe biden or trump or bernie sanders, anybody else, they have to evaluate a whole lot of factors.

i met with the president -- i don't know, five or six weeks ago, we had a great discussion, he seemed fine to me, but i think at the end of the day, what we've got to ask for ourselves is what to people stand for? do you believe that women have the right to control their own bodies? the president has been strong with that. do you think that climate change is real or do you agree with the republicans that it's a nonissue? do you think we should raise the minimum wage? do you think we should reform and take on the pharmaceutical industry? so age is an issue, chuck, but there are a lot of broader issues than just that. >> let me ask you about cornell west. he was a co-chair of your campaign in 2020. he's flirting with a green party bid for president. the numbers tell the story between 2016 and 2020. you can directly correlate the two-third party major candidates, third-party candidates and their collective total.

that was the difference between biden-winning states and clinton losing those key states. are you trying to discourage cornell west from running? >> well, i've known cornell for many, many years. he's a very independent-minded guy and he will do what he wants to do. i just think, again, i think cornell or anybody else can play an important role now about raising issues that are not always discussed, but at the end of the day, i think the progressive community in general and the american people have got to make a decision as to whether we stand for democracy or authoritarianism or whether or not we're going to represent working-class families. >> one of your chief political advisers is concerned that cornell west is being taken advantage of by maybe people that simply want his name on the ballot. do you have those concerns? >> i really haven't thought of it that closely. >> all right. bernie sanders, the independent senator from vermont who we saw in new hampshire yesterday.

thanks for coming on and sharing your views with us. good to see you. >> thank you. when we come back, the republican presidential hopefuls try to make the case for why they're the best alternative to donald trump, but do republican voters really want an alternative? the panel is next. t. save 50% on the sleep number® limited edition smart bed. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number®. but blendjet■s back to school sale is in full swing! blendjet gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on the go

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welcome back. the panel is here. former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of welcome back. the panel is here. former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida. marcos moulitsas, founder of the daily kos, pat mccrory, and danielle pletka, senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. let me start with the visual that i think will live for quite some time and that is the show of hands on donald trump. let's play it again.

>> if former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [ cheers and applause ] >> dani pletka, it was a moment especially like a cascade and a wave and everybody else, and it was this reluctance. >> there was that christie weird hand signal thing. i do see it slightly differently because they all went on to that stage having made a pledge that they would support the party's nominee. so -- >> never did say they had to support a convicted felon in that pledge. >> the party's nominee, there's no asterisk there that says he can't have a mugshot, right? so i feel for them in the sense that they were sort of -- none of them wanted to raise their hand except vivek. none of them wanted to, but they all felt like they had to. >> how did vivek end up the center of attention? i don't understand that game theory because leaving desantis alone seemed to be -- you know, everybody else truly tried to get to trump, you had to go through desantis.

>> i'm a big eagles fan, and there's a song, "the new kid in town," it applies to politics too. he's the new kid in town and he wants to get as much attention as possible, and he'll say and do anything to get that attention, and he fulfilled that objective, but he also had previous new kids in town who now have political maturity like chris christie, pence, and nikki haley, and they went, we're not going to put up with this, and that was a tough debate desags because the more they jump on him, the more attention he gets, but they drew him out. i mean, he's almost from a foreign policy perspective, he's the neville chamberlain. he's not ronald reagan.

>> did they try him out or were they really trying to attack donald trump? >> he's asking for revolution. >> i have the equivalent of punching a couch cushion. you can't attack donald trump so they were going to attack vivek? >> that's an interesting question. i don't think i've thought about that. i think he just got on their nerves and he was so freakin' obnoxious and he couldn't take it anymore. who is this -- can you imagine somebody who admitted he hadn't even thought about foreign policy until six months ago, man explaining to nikki haley who was a u.n. ambassador about foreign policy? they just couldn't help themselves. that's what i think. stephanie, what did you see? >> i think that he embodied exactly what the harvard university calls him the section guy, josh wrote about this. he's the guy who speaks in class incessantly but doesn't say anything of merit and of substance, and everybody can't stand him, but they kind of have to still be on the good side because one day he's running for public office, and here he is running for president. >> what do you think about this guy that successfully hacked his way into the center stage of the party this easily with the information ecosystem just ole'd

him to center stage. >> i have a vivek answer, a glib-like answer. everything has become like reality tv. this is how we ended up with the guy saying "you're fired". >> he's a kardashian. there's no accountability in politics, right? he can say whatever he wants and if he said something different the day before, no one cares because he's there and he believes -- >> he's entertaining you in the moment. >> and he's entertaining you, exactly, in the moment. >> he told everyone -- >> some voters did want to see some toughness. look what happened. a lot of times candidates want to tell us, nobody asked us about trump on the trail. here's tim scott on the trail being asked by a republican about donald trump. watch this. >> do not stand toe to toe with somebody that you don't accept in president. >> we disagree on the foundation of the premise of the question, and the premise of the question is why don't you stand up to trump? >> i never heard you -- >> i didn't hear you the other night say that. i can't accept him as president.

>> do you want to have a conversation or do you want to have a monologue? if you want to have a dialogue, i'll be speaking as well. >> that escalated quickly. i was stunned that tim scott sort of almost went after the voter. he didn't seem like he was being angry. >> he knew he was being filmed and he didn't want to irritate the trump base, and, listen, i'm an example of that. i had a 30-point lead at one time in a u.s. senate race, and the minute trump went against me, i dropped. that's the power of donald trump. and the interview you did earlier with the new kid in town, he's talking about a revolution while in the same interview he also said he's going to change the tone. i mean, that's within 48 hours. >> stephanie, you represented one of the swingiest districts of the country. >> one, i think that was a mistake. you never engage with your

voters that way on camera or not. that's just a rookie mistake in engaging with voters. in swing states they're wondering why we are faced with these two options, like -- and this debate was sort of separate from what the presumptive nominations are going to be for both parties, and, you know, we're a country of 300 million people, and we don't have better alternatives? >> i want to bring up one other thing about the iowa poll because i think it tells us the way the republican party has changed and let me show you what the makeup of the republican kay caucus electorate was in 2016. it was 50-50, slight advantage, male. 52%/48%. according to our poll that we released this week, the likely republican electorate is now 61% male, 39% female. this is the trump effect. whatever we want to talk about,

this appears to be the trump effect, does it not? >> more men are turning out, but i think it's interesting that you don't have any breakdown there so i don't know -- >> no, it is smaller. >> it's all the same except for gender. everything else is the same on ideology, on college education. we are seeing more men identify as republicans and more women not. >> well, that's something that the republican party needs to deal with because there are a lot of women in this country. >> and we just had the summer of "barbie" and taylor swift tour. women are having a moment in this country where they have an economic impact and they are having a voice and they're going to want to go to the polls and reflect that. >> i thought that's why nikki haley did a good job in presenting that face. >> absolutely. >> she potentially has room to grow if she can somehow get women to show up. >> everybody's afraid of going after trump, right? but if you look at primary polling, trump's around 50%, 52%. half of the party isn't aboard. if there's ten people splitting the rest of the vote that's a problem and you can consolidate. >> well, you have allowed me to

tease. when we come back, there's a divide among the republican party among voters who believe president biden was legitimately elected and donald trump lost. we will show you that split inside the republican electorate in iowa. "data download" is next. wnload". i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? baby, only on game nights. you know you are retired right? am i? ya! the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only $999. plus, 60-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number.

♪ ♪♪ welcome back. it's "data download" time. there are a lot of ways to understand the 2024 republican electorate. we have data that suggests one of the more crucial splits maybe between those republicans who believe donald trump won the 2020 election and those who don't believe and actually

acknowledge that the former president lost. let me show you here. it's almost a pretty even split. barely a majority believe donald trump's false assertions. 41% of iowa republican caucusgoers do not believe donald trump's claims. and you know what? it leads to some interesting splits. your favorability of donald trump depends on whether you believe him. those that believe him, 92% favorable rating, and those who don't believe him, just 30% have a favorable rating here. as you can see, desantis, scott, and ramaswamy all have more evenly divided favorable ratings among both group. in theory they might unite both groups and donald trump not so much. look at the divide between these two groups. 51-41 here. gun enthusiasts. if you're a believe category,

43% if you do not believe. more devoutly religious, those that believe donald trump's lies. you are more likely to be moderate if you don't believe donald trump's lies about the election and as you can see here the biggest divide among those that believe and don't believe, your college education status. nearly 60% have a bachelors degree among those that do not believe trump's false assertions and it leads to interesting splits on some key issues. use of military at the border, gender-affirming care ban for minors as you can see here, significant divides, but among the most significant might be the idea of more aid for ukraine. just a quarter of those who believe trump's lies support more aid for ukraine. among those who don't believe trump's lies support more aid for ukraine. as you follow this primary season, keep track of those who believe the election lies of donald trump and those that don't inside the republican electorate. monday will mark the 60th washington where nearly a

quarter million americans gathered on the national mall in the fight for civil rights. some know the event best as the day dr. martin luther king jr. delivered his "i have a dream" speech where he brought many of the same issues we're dealing with today. three days ahead of the march, dr. king responded to some of the his critics right here on "meet the press." >> i am sure that many whites in both the north and south have the feeling that we're pushing things too fast and that we should cool off a while, slow up for a period. i cannot agree with this at all for i think there can be no game shame of the fact that the ne fw ro has been extremely patient. we have waited now for a while, 345 years for our basic constitutional and god-given

rights, and we still confront the fact that we are at the bottom of the economic ladder. i think instead of slowing up, we must push at this point and we must continue to move on, and i am convinced that our moving on will not only help the negro cause so to speak and the cause of the whole of america because the shape of the world today just doesn't permit our nation the luxury of an anemic democracy. >> those words may be 60 years old, but they have an impact today. when we come back, who has more to lose if a third-party candidate jumps into the presidential race? the panel is next. presidential race? the panel is next.

goli, taste your goals. welcome back. so let's look at a biden general election campaign and the idea of a third party. pat, you are a big part of no labels. of a you guys are recruiting candidates. what is this ticket going to look like, and is this 100% commitment that there is going to be a ticket? >> nikki haley and the debate confirmed that 65% of the people are disgusted with both trump and biden being our only choices. they're asking, isn't america better than this?

can't we have a better choice? and the momentum and movement of no labels is on fire right now. >> i get that -- >> there are a lot of people -- >> no, they're not. no, they're not. >> i'm telling you right now, there are a lot of people who predicted trump would never be president, and the same people are saying there's no way in hell a third party can win. i'm telling you. we've never had 56% of the people disgusted with no parties. >> we stand for nothing, imagine going to walmart or target and seeing no labels on the products. products are -- >> it ignores abortion. >> you missed a whole -- >> the barn-burning issue such as medical tort reform, that will light up the audience. >> you have not read it. >> the reality is it's finance/industry-heavy --

>> i read it. i actually read it. i read it last night. >> that's why he couldn't sleep. >> nikki haley basically repeated the no labels agenda. >> so the problem isn't -- isn't they don't like, you know, biden or trump, it's that you are creating this idea that there is a mythical unicorn creature that will agree with these people who want something else. that doesn't exist. when they polled man chun and huntsman, they didn't get that much. >> i don't know. i will say and this is anecdotal conversations at my house, does that reflect the country? i don't know, but i will say that none of us want to vote for trump and none of us want to vote for biden. >> i want to vote for biden. >> i know who you want to vote for, dude. that wasn't a question. >> that's right. your house. >> average people -- my house, don't want to vote for biden, don't want to vote for trump and i don't think it's crazy. we do want to vote for somebody. >> stephanie, you were ideologically in the middle. i wanted some ideological diversity, and we got a lot of

it here. where are you? >> i think i agree that when i have conversations with people in the swing part of what used to be a swing state they say, you know both presumptive nominees are running on i'm better than the alternate campaign, right? biden said in the last campaign, don't judge me against the almighty. judge me against the alternative. that's not going to be enough. people are saying to themselves why are these our only alternatives. biden has to give people a reason to vote for him, not just voting against trump. >> markos, are you comfortable that there isn't a democratic primary? would you like to see biden come up with a better case. >> biden is very popular among democrats and civics polling -- biden is centering around 80% with democrats. there's no space for an anti-trump? there really is no space for an anti-biden, and -- i mean, you talk about the popularity. you see republicans going to

groundbreaking ceremonies for build back better and for the inflation reduction act because taking credit for -- for projects that they voted against. >> i actually would say that there's not competition because a lot of these people are younger and the bench is younger and they're preserving their ability to run in the future and they don't want to go up against a sitting president. that's why we don't have options. >> can you give us some names? because -- you know, manchin and huntsman, that's not going to get you your unicorn. what other candidate? >> i'm just saying -- i don't think there will be a shortage of candidates. >> why can't you guys name some names? >> because we want to go through a good process. we're going to have a convention in april, and we're going to be very transparent with the american people, as we were with the 30 issues, commonsense issues -- >> so who funds the movement? you talk about transparency. who's that? >> the same people who have groups that are funded with moveon.org that are trying to stop us from getting on the

ballot. >> this is a discussion that has to end because of time, but it will not end other than that. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." the manifesto is, quite frankly, the diarrhea of a madman. he was completely irrational. was it irrational thoughts? he knew what he was doing. he was 100% lucid. he knew what he was doing. again, it's disappointing that anyone would go to these lengths to hurt someone else. >> the sheriff in jacksonville, florida, yesterday describing the white gunman who carried out a racially motivated rampage on saturday afternoon.