toward skipping the next one, then might start doing some. they haven't committed one way or another. great point how that could change the directory of the race. former aide to house speakers boehner and ryan, brendan buck, thank you. and thank you to you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. the manifesto was, quite frankly, the diary of a madman. he was just completely irrational. but was it irrational thoughts? he knew what he was doing. he was 100% lucid. he knew what he was doing. again, it's disappointing that anyone would go to these lengths to hurt someone else. his sickening ideology is not representative of the values of this jacksonville community that we all love so much. we are not a community of hate. we stand united with a good and decent people of this city. we reject this inexcusable

violence. >> that is the sheriff in jacksonville, florida, yesterday, describing the white gunman who carried out a rampage saturday afternoon killing three people. we'll have a live report from florida in a moment. also ahead, a hearing in washington later this morning could determine the time line now for donald trump's federal election interference case. we'll explain what's happening in that courtroom today. meanwhile, this mugshot has been worth millions of dollars already for the trump campaign. more on the recordrecord-breaki donations ahead. the suspected death of a mercenary group leader in russia who was once a close ally to president vladimir putin. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, august 28th. i'm willie geist. joe and mika off this morning. with us, we have the host of "way too early" white house bureau chief at "politico" and author of "the big lie,"

jonathan lemire. bbc news's katty kay. and host of "politics nations," the reverend al sharpton. good morning to you all. rev, today marks the 60th anniversary, as you know well, of the march on washington, and reverend dr. martin luther king jr.'s "i have a dream" speech. as many as a quarter million people gathered on the national mall on this day in 1963. in honor of that moment, thousands gathered on the national mall on saturday, including dr. king's family and a number of civil rights leaders, including yourself, rev. you were there. this is something you've been telling us about for many months, anticipating it, connecting dr. king's dream and that speech 60 years ago to where we are today. tell us about the weekend, rev. >> well, the weekend was very invigorating. we were able to see a cross section of people of all races, and it was intergenerational. we had projected and put on the

permit that we expected 75,000 people. we did a lot more than that. when you looked out at the audience, it was under bushes because of the heat, but when we got ready to march, you could see throngs of people, interracial, intergenerational, led by martin luther king iii and arndrea waters king, who heads the drum institution, and then me, the national action network. we had a prime organization for latinos, native americans and young students. there were, like, over 100 buses that came in from hbcus that businessmen helped the national action network sponsor. in the middle of it all, not knowing to us at the time, is this hate crime in jacksonville. before martin and arndrea and i got back to the hotel, we heard

about the shooting. in many ways, the unity and the hope that the march showed and the believing in the dream was hit with the reality that hate still exists with the weapons that are available to maximize that hate in terms of ar-15 rifles, s.w.a.t. sticker drawn on the rifle. the reality of where we are hit us as we go forward as celebrating where we've come in 60 years, but realizing how far we still have to go. >> rev, we'll talk more about that shooting in a moment. but one of the things you were trying to do at this march was hold institutions accountable who made pledges after george floyd was murdered but haven't actually delivered on them yet. where are we with that? talk a little bit about how the country has moved since george floyd, when it was, you know, the images were everywhere, it was trending everywhere, companies were putting out press statements everywhere. what are they actually doing in

the name of racial justice, and how much are they putting their money where their mouth is? >> well, sadly, we have a lot more broken promises than fulfillment. one of the things that was stated at the march, and it was central in my statement, is we are going to target companies that have made commitments in the moment of george floyd, in the moment of the movement. george floyd's brother and others were at the march. they've not lived up to it. there were $300 billion committed. commitments made on contracts, commitments made on doing business that has not been fulfilled and, in some cases, totally taken back. so when we looked at businessmen that were there, that did perform over and above their commitment, robert smith, a black billionaire. robert kraft, nfl owner, marching with us. we look at the list.

we have done an analysis of the companies that made commitments and what they delivered. they will be the people that we come out of this march saying, "you're going to keep your commitment, or people need to know it and not be consumers of your product." the theme of my speech was that, we're the dreadreamers, but we to confront the schemers. there's dreamers and schemers coming out of the march. >> as you said, this is a continuation, not a commemoration, on the march on washington. a lot of work ahead. new developments this morning out of jacksonville, florida, where three people were killed in what police are calling a racially motivated attack. saturday, two shoppers and an employee were shot at a dollar general store near the historically black college, edward waters university. all three of the victims were black. authorities say the 21-year-old gunman, who was white, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. they described him as a, quote, maniac who wanted to kill black people. said they found more than 20

pages of racist writings on his laptop. police say the suspect legally purchased the two guns used in the attack, a glock handgun and ar-15 style rifle. the rifle had swastikas on it. he was sent for a 72-hour involuntary psychiatric evaluation in 2017. under florida law, the evaluations do not show up in background checks unless the person has been committed for treatment. joining us now from the scene of the shooting in jacksonville, nbc news correspondent jay gray. jay, good morning. what more can you tell us today? >> reporter: hey, good morning, willie. you can see the scene behind us here. it is still locked down. investigators still pouring through, looking for any evidence that may help them understand how and why this attack was carried out. yesterday, sunday, a full 24 hours after the attack, several hundred gathered outside of the police tape here for a vigil, calling for unity, praying for

help and hope in a community that's really been rocked by what has happened here over the weekend. that 21-year-old suspect you talk about walking into the store but beginning his killing spree outside, firing into a vehicle in the parking lot and killing a 19-year-old employee who was in that car. then, as you mentioned, inside the store and killing two more employees. what investigators are telling us is he let a couple people inside the store go, some white, but others he let go before opening fire. he was leaving the dollar general as police met him at the door. he rushed inside, barricaded inside an office and apparently turned his weapon on himself. we know that he left several letters, a suicide note, and then those what police are calling manifestos, hate-filled, rage-filled notes, talking about killing african-americans.

his first stop, though, before all of this happened, willie, was at a historically black college here, edward waters university. he was confronted by security there. don't know about that interaction. what we know is that he did use that area kind of as a basis for operation, getting things prepared, putting on a tactical vest and a mask. the sheriff here has said that he did have the opportunity to open fire at that university, chose not to. instead, driving to this location about a mile away. >> just horrific details of this story. explicitly racially motivated in his writings. jay gray on the scene there in jacksonville, florida. thanks so much. jonathan, the president put out a statement last night, said he was praying for the victims and added, "we must say clearly and forcefully that white supremacy has no place in america." >> yeah, the president very strong with his language there. willie, certainly a sadly

familiar tale, another moment of this. nazi swastikas emblazoned on the gun, online manifesto full of racist and vile imagery, fueling this attack. reverend sharpton, as you noted, it came as you were participating in that march in washington, suggesting how much further we have to go. it was so reminiscent to me of the shooting in buffalo a year ago. i was with president biden when he went to that scene, that grocery store that was the site of another racist mass shooting. as you see this, that's a year ago, this over the weekend, these things keep happening. just what does it stir within you about how much further our nation still has to go? >> well, it stirs in me a sense of sadness but also a sense of urgency. we must deal with the weapons of hate. i don't know -- i'm a minister, and i have deep faith, and i mean that sincerely, but i don't know we can get everyone out of

hatred that has hate in them. but i do know we can stop facilitating it with assault weapons and not even a background check. the president and the vice president has invited members of the king family and some of us that organized the march on saturday and the commemoration and continuation to meet with him at the white house this afternoon. we are going to have frank talks on, in the name of what the march was about in '63, we need to have legislation. the senate and the congress must make their agreement with the president to do something about it. it is just like buffalo because this store, dollar general, was the only store in that area people could use, just like tops supermarket was the same in buffalo. so he knew where to go to get a large amount of black people. the other thing that was kind of

striking to me, to jonathan and the rest of us talking this morning, is that when you study the '63 march, this great moment, martin luther king, "i have a dream," and a couple weeks later, a man bombed the birmingham church and killed four girls. it is almost scary, how we're seeing history repeat itself. thousands come with hope across racial lines, and hate reminds us that our job is not finished yet. >> hate sees a moment to push back and, as you say in this case and too many others, hate combined with powerful, powerful weapons. we're going to come back to this story throughout the morning and talk more about this 60th anniversary of the "i have a dream" speech, as well. there is legal news today. a judge is expected to set a trial date in the federal election interference case against former president donald trump. at 10:00 eastern time this morning, lawyers for both trump and the justice department are scheduled to appear before

district court judge tanya chutkan were a status hearing. the team for special counsel jack smith has proposed the trial begin in early january of this coming here year. in response, trump's lawyers requested the trial not begin until april of 2026. the former president has pleaded not guilty to four charges related to his alleged efforts to stay in power following his 2020 election loss to joe biden. meanwhile, regarding the charges against trump and 18 co-defendants in georgia for election interference, former white house chief of staff mark meadows is pushing to move his case from fulton county to a federal court. there are at least four witnesses subpoenaed to testify at today's hearing on that matter, including georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. meadows was on the now infamous call where donald trump asked to find the necessary votes to win the state. >> i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break.

so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. >> january 2nd, 2021. meadows plans to argue he was acting in his capacity as the top aide to former president trump, so it should be in federal court. also today, the court will be considering a push by several of the defendants for a speedy trial. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, good morning. let's go back to the federal matter first in washington with judge chutkan, announcing, we think, about 10:00 this morning after that hearing, a trial date for the jack smith special counsel prosecution of donald trump for an attempt to overturn the 2020 election. what are you hearing about that gulf between the proposed dates,

one early january 2024, the other from the trump team, april of 2026? where might it fall in there? >> good morning, willie. well, both proposals are probably unrealistic, but the trump's team proposal is sort of in left field. it's not even what remotely is realistic. most legal observers believe judge chutkan is going to set a trial date sometime next year before the november 2024 election. it's not likely to be in january of next year. it could be around this time or in the summer at some point. whatever date she sets may not hold, but it'll give us an idea of her thinking about how quickly this case can get to trial. i will be covering this hearing outside of that federal courthouse today. it is actually, as pretrial positioning goes, this is probably one of the most important pretrial hearings in this case because of the profound effects on the election. it is really our first chance to hear from judge chutkan on a

really important matter. >> so, ken, can you just spell out what this could mean in terms of the timing in the runup to the election and what we might learn by the end of today? >> katty, we're going to learn, you know, exactly how judge chutkan views this case in terms of its complexity and whether she buys at all the defense arguments that, you know, because they're receiving 11.5 million documents -- remember, they said it was equivalent to reading "war and peace" eight times a day from now until the beginning of the trial, whether that means they need a year or more to prepare for the trial. the special counsel said that's ridiculous. yes, it's a lot of documents, but, you know, we're in a computer age. you can use keyword searches. we'll help you determine what the important documents are. a lot of the evidence was familiar. it was developed and made public by the january 6th committee. we're going to see what judge chutkan thinks of these arguments and whether she sets a

trial date before the summer, before the november election. it's really going to set the tone for where this thing goes from here. >> going down to fulton county, georgia, ken, mark meadows has said, "i want this in federal court. i don't want to be tried by fani willis." what is your sense of his chances of that? most people say that's probably a long shot. do you think there is a shot he gets it moved out of there? >> i think there is a better chance than, say, donald trump when he tried to do the same thing in the new york case. i've been told the d.a.s could continue to prosecute in federal court. they may have to bring in prosecutors who have federal experience. they may have to file some paperwork to appear in federal court, but nothing would change about this case if he wins, except that it would be heard by a federal judge. it'd still be the state charges. it's a weird 1789 law designed to protect federal officials who are acting under the color of

their authority in office. of course, the biggest argument against meadows in this situation is -- you heard the tape there, the recording -- donald trump was not acting as president in that moment. he was talking about the election. he was asking -- >> right. >> -- the secretary of state of georgia to find votes. if meadows was sitting in the meeting or involved in that meeting or other activities like that and he claims he was acting as a federal official, the d.a. is going to say, "well, sir, weren't you violated the hatch act, which prohibits government federal officials from engaging in politics?" it'll be interesting to see what his argument is there. >> meadows is one of the 18 co-defendants, along with donald trump, making it 19, trump down in georgia, turning the mugshot into a record-breaking fundraising haul. according to "politico," trump's campaign claims to have had its best day of fundraising yet, pulling $4.2 million on friday night alone, making it the single highest 24-hour period of his campaign to date.

much of the fundraising comes from merchandise, t-shirts, posters, bumper stickers, coolers, ranging from $12 to $40 on the website. you see it there. the campaign also has been peppering online donors with emails and text messages. trump's campaign says it has raised nearly $20 million in the last three years. the figure is more than half of what trump raised during his first seven months in the 2024 race. so we kind of expected this, jonathan lemire, that donald trump was going to make a virtue and, yes, a t-shirt of his mugshot. had it pushed out almost immediately in a fundraising email on thursday night. the question is, yes, it is exciting and, yes, it raises a bunch of money for your base supporters who view you as a martyr and victim who is being prosecuted by joe biden. that's not the way this works, of course, but that's the tale he is tending them. the question is, does it help him beyond that? he does have to win, if he gets through this primary, a general election. does a mugshot do all these

cases against him, as he believes, help him? >> there is speculation when he was first indicted in new york back in april, when we thought there might be a mugshot, there was a race to say, "well, trump is going to monetize that." of course, no mugshot was taken there or in the federal cases. now we have one in georgia, they didn't waste any time. we should note, that's a lot of money, you're right. you can get it on coffee mugs, t-shirts. i saw footage over the weekend of people getting it as tattoos, though i don't think trump gets money off of that. seems to be painful. a lot of money donald trump is raising goes to his legal bills. it's not all going to be spent on his campaign. this is something that, as you say, willie, it's one thing to give him energy in the primary, very different in an election. ken, in georgia, what struck me is this idea of some members indicted along with trump want these speedy trials. explain to us what that means. and if they are granted them, the sidney powells and others who have asked for them, what

could it mean for the timing for trump's own case? >> so interesting, jonathan. cheseboro, the architect of the alleged scheme, and sidney powell, the lawyer pursuing the whackiest allegations of fraud, bogus, have both asked for a speedy trial. in cheseboro's request, the judge approved and set the trial for october. donald trump's lawyer wants a delay, saying he is going to pursue a motion to sever donald trump from the rest of the defendants, or any defendant that wants a speedy trial. trump doesn't want one. trump's penultimate strategy in all cases is to delay and hope he gets elected president, in which case, the justice department may decide this georgia case can't go forward against a sitting president. so that's where it stands. it'll be interesting to see whether any of the defendants actually get what they want and get a trial as soon as, you know, this fall.

it is hard to imagine something happening in october, but it could happen rather quickly. but donald trump will not be among those people who are seeking that speedy trial, jonathan. >> you've got georgia, then the big one today, ken, in washington, where we could find out a trial date. obviously critical next year as it is dropped in the middle of a presidential campaign. we'll see in a few hours. ken dilanian, thanks so much, as always. hurricane watches have been issued in parts of florida today as tropical storm idalia picks up steam. according to the national hurricane center, it is expected to be a category 2 hurricane as it reaches the gulf of mexico, will continue to intensify with landfall in florida on wednesday. ron desantis declared a state of emergency for 33 counties, saying those in the path of the storm should expect power outages, storm surges and winds over 100 miles per hour.

for more, let's turn to meteorologist michelle grossman. what more can you tell us about the path of this storm? >> hi there, willie. it is already picking up steam. we're looking at a strong tropical storm with winds at 65 miles per hour. we expect it to be a category 1 storm later on today, then a category 2 storm and, eventually, into a category 3 storm as it makes landfall along the west coast of florida. here's the latest 125 miles south of the western tip of cuba. it is starting to move. it was stationary two hours ago. it is on the move, and that's going to make it into the gulf of mexico in a few hours. the gulf of mexico is so, so warm. bath waters at the sea surface level and also deep. we're going to see it blossom quickly. moving north at 7 miles per hour. again, looking at the strong tropical storm. here's a track. we're looking at it blossom into a category 1 storm as it enters the gulf of mexico and eventually into a category 2 by tuesday. then by wednesday, there is that cat 3, a major hurricane. we are going to look at very gusty winds, the chance for life-threatening storm surges and rainfall totals up to 10

inches. it'll make landfall most likely north of tampa but somewhere along the big bend of florida into the west coast of florida. it'll skirt over the state of florida, impacting portions of the southeast, and then into the ca carolinas. this is going to coincide with a high tide, so we could see flooding even in portions of the carolinas by wednesday into thursday. tropical alerts all up and down the west coast, even in the interior portions of florida. prepare now. you have 48 hours to get this done. get your hurricane plan in place. we have storm surge alerts up and down the west coast of florida, as well. we could see storm surges as high as 11 feet. that is a wall of water moving onto try land, willie. >> 48 hours to prepare. looks like wednesday morning going to hit the west coast of florida. michelle grossman, thank you for the update. appreciate it. >> sure. ahead on "morning joe," new reporting on three of donald trump's fulton county co-defendants potentially flipping on the former president. we'll tell you who they are and what they might be able to share with prosecutors. plus, russian authorities

officially confirm now the death of wagner mercenary chief yevgeny prigozhin. we'll have new developments and what it means for vladimir putin's leadership. plus, what we are learning this morning about a crash that killed three u.s. marines during a training exercise in australia. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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live picture of new york city. it's 6:29 in the morning. there's the top of our building at 30 rockefeller center. a new national poll shows a bit of a dip in support for donald trump following his decision to skip last week's republican primary debate and to surrender to georgia authorities and get that mugshot on thursday. according to the latest emerson

college survey released this morning, trump's support dropped 6 points from a poll taken earlier this month. the former president, though, still leading his opponents overwhelming overwhelmingly, with 50% of republicans saying they plan to vote for him in next year's primary. former u.n. ambassador nikki haley and former vice president pence saw the biggest bumps following the debate, gaining 5 and 4 points respectively, but just up to 7% each. meanwhile, candidate vivek ramaswamy, there in third place, appeared on two sunday shows yesterday. some of his exchanges with chuck todd on "meet the press." >> you believe donald trump is the greatest president of the 21st century. he's running. why are you running against him? why do you think his second term won't be as good as his first? >> well, look, i did say he is the best president of the 21st century, from bush to barack

obama to donald trump, joe biden, i judge by results. that said, i believe i can take the america first agenda even further than donald trump did. >> all right. again, from your book, "no one likes a sore losers. that's one of the worst victimhood complexes of all." are you referred to donald trump? >> to stacey abrams and donald trump. i think the answer is, we need leaders who under all the circumstances -- ultimately stand for victory over victim hood. >> let me bring up questions you didn't answer at the debate. many said mike pence did the right thing on january 6th. do you agree? >> i would have done it very differently. i think that there was a historic opportunity that he missed to reunite this country in that window. here's what i would have said. we need single day voting on election day. we need paper ballots and government-issued id matching the voter file. if we achieve that, then we have achieved victory. we should not have any further complaint about election

integrity. >> so what would you have done as mike pence, not certified the election? >> in my capacity as president of the senate, i would have led through that level of reform. then on that condition, certified the election results, served it up to the president, president trump then to sign that into law, and january 7th, declared the re-election campaign pursuant to a free and fair election. that was a missed opportunity. >> vivek ramaswamy on "meet the press." joining us now, senior columnist at "the daily beast," matt lewis. good morning. before we dig into your latest piece, "trump and ramaswamy show us how the worst get to the top," parse through some of what he was saying yesterday with chuck. i mean, we heard a lot of that at the debate the other night. does he believe any of that? i mean, he is a smart guy, without question. it sounds very cynical to most people, he's trying to impersonate trump via stand-in for donald trump. >> i like the ramaswamy who wrote the book, like, two years ago, who made some very good

points. >> yeah. >> not as much the ramaswamy today who is contradicting the flip-flopping on all those points. look, he is a very -- obviously a very intelligent person. he is very eloquent. he can go on tv and express himself very well, and then it is only after you unpack the points he makes that you realize most of them are kind of b.s. so, for example, the idea that mike pence, the vice president of the united states, had the power to tell states who, by the way, run elections, you know, that mike pence had the constitutional power to tell these states they had to do in-person voting and that they had to have paper ballots and all of these things. then it was mike pence's responsibility, not donald trump's responsibility -- remember, donald trump is telling people, "don't do mail-in voting," which, again, interestingly, vivek actually did mail-in voting. later on, chuck todd asked how

he voted in 2020. he didn't vote in person. he did mail-in voting, and he cited a global pandemic as the reason why he did mail-in voting. well, maybe that's why a lot of other people did the same thing. so, again, if you listen to him, maybe you're flipping the channel or something, he sounds incredibly compelling and eloquent, but when you start to unpack the things he is saying, they usually don't really hold water. >> and that's what happened on the debate stage, as well, when he said, "cut off all funding for ukraine. i'd issue a pardon for donald trump. and climate change is a hoax." in the case with yesterday, in the interview with chuck, chuck read his book and said, "well, that's not what you were saying two years ago in your book." in your piece, matt, you write, "a skinny kid with a funny name who has never held public office, rarely even votes, and has been on both sides of the numerous issues, became the hottest commodity in the republican party.

how is he considered a big pin winner of the debate despite his unctuous performance? the buzz around ramaswamy reminds us the problem isn't trump, per se, but a culture that incentivizes and rewards trump behavior. once you accept this, it is easier to make predictions regarding the gop. who wins? the people who have no sense of shame. the people who are willing to kiss your butt or slit your throat depending on the circumstances. the real danger," matt writes," is not ramaswamy but what our enthrallment with politicians like them says about one of our two major political parties." where does that leave then, matt lewis, someone like nikki haley, or mike pence, chris christie, who has been the most openly critical of donald trump, who are trying, in many ways, to go about this like a traditional

campaign, watching trump and vivek rise next to them? >> look, on one hand, willie, if you watched that debate, you could say, hey, there's hope, right? if you are a reagan republican, if you are a freedom conservative, if you're someone who believes in kind of limited government and traditional conservative values, not the quote, unquote, new right, you might have watched that debate and concluded, hey, everything's great. chris christie did a great job of supporting ukraine against russia's invasion. mike pence rhetorically did a great job. i think nikki haley did a fantastic job. she, i believe, overperformed, certainly my expectations. you might have watched that debate and concluded, things are pretty good. if trump were to disappear, we might be in okay shape. the republican party might come back. the problem is, if you start to actually add up the polling and consider who is winning, something like 75% or 80% of republican voters are supporting

either donald trump, vivek ramaswamy or ron desantis. so, you know, the people that we've mentioned here, mike pence, nikki haley, chris christie, that's like, maybe, 20%, 21% of the vote. so maybe it's not as cheery as the debate made it look. and the last thing i would add, willie, is the attention economy. right now, who is getting the attention and the buzz and the excitement? it's vivek ramaswamy. he is winning that argument, or at least that part of the campaign right now. you know, in my piece, i talk about this famous hyatt book, "the road to surfdom." there is a chapter about why the worst get on top. he was talking about totalitarian regimes, like the old soviet union. it's the worst that succeeds

lennon, stalin. someone who does whatever it takes to win. we're blessed we don't live in that regime in america, but i think the dynamic is similar. it is the worst people in the republican party right now who are more likely to do what it takes to get to the top. >> matt, al sharpton. you know i ran in 2004, so i know about the debates. we did a lot of debates during that time. i watched these debates, this debate the other night, looking at the fact that when you walk on that big stage and those big lights hit you, it's different than anything you've ever experienced. did you get a sense of those that were on the stage that just didn't belong on the stage? they might be good politicians. they may have done things, but they just seemed like they were not ready for that level of engagement. even ramaswamy, who is getting a lot of attention, when you start

going on national television saying that the vice president should have made conditions in order to certify election, i mean, that kind of, like, doesn't make sense at that level. you can get away with that in college elections, but who do you see as not being able to really live up to the stage that they're at, including ramaswamy? how long can you get along until people start saying, "well, they're a little out of their category"? >> well, unfortunately, i think that vivek ramaswamy is going to flourish despite the fact that i think he is somewhat shallow, despite the fact that a lot of us find him very off-putting, kind of condescending, and despite the fact that he often, you know, doesn't have his facts quite right. interestingly, interesting move in the republican primary, he is often eluding to barack obama, steals barack obama's lines,

including telling mike pence that, you know, "guess what? the cold war is over. 1980s are behind us," that kind of thing. i actually think that ramaswamy does well in this environment, which i think is very superficial. in my opinion, the person who is not quite ready for primetime in terms of the show, right, and getting up there under the lights, is actually ron desantis. i was surprised to see that there was a poll that came out, a "washington post" poll that came out right after the debate that showed that ron desantis actually went up in the polls a little bit. people thought he won. it could just be that he was able to fly under the radar, that he was not attacked. he was not -- but i believe in this attention economy, being the center of attention more often than not is a benefit. that was vivek. that wasn't ron desantis. so i think desantis is the one who has the most work to do in terms of being able to be on

that stage eloquently. >> yeah, it was very telling last week at the debate that the attacks from the other seven, you might think would go at ron desantis who is the leaders of those trying to catch donald trump, were not trained at all on ron desantis. they were all going at vivek, which is the point you make in your piece. senior columnist at "the daily beast," matt lewis, thanks, as always. good to see you. coming up next, we're getting an assessment on russia's unprovoked war and how it will unfold in the next year. the candid discussions the biden administration is having on ukraine's progress the last 18 months. david ignatius joins us next on what u.s. officials are telling him. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪

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marines in australia were killed. three were killed, five others taken to the hospital with serious injuries. according to a u.s. military statement, the incident happened yesterday at 9:30 a.m. local time during routine multinational training exercises. the marine corps did not release the names of the marines killed. the 12-day exercise scheduled to end next week. the cause of the crash is still under investigation. meanwhile, russia says dna testing has confirmed the head of the wagner mercenary group was on board the passenger jet that exploded near moscow last week. though neither u.s. intelligence nor nbc news has confirmed yevgeny prigozhin was on the plane. american officials say they believe it is likely he was and a detonated bomb is what caused that explosion. western officials have said prigozhin's apparent death may have been in response to his attempted coup in june. the kremlin denied having anything to do with that explosion.

joining us now, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. good morning. good to see you. >> good morning, willie. >> is this as simple as most people believe it is, that yevgeny prigozhin attempted a coup, stopped just short of moscow, and a couple of months later, he was killed for it? >> so it seems to me that putin has basically redrawn the lines, the social contract, and putin's russia has been all politics. you can have your share of turf. putin allowed prigozhin to be more and more powerful, but prigozhin clearly crossed the line, challenged putin himself, marched on moscow, and this is the result. i'm struck by the official announcement that he's dead, which then leaves open the question, okay, who killed him? they're going to have an official investigation of who killed him? i doubt it. at least not a fair one. but i think putin has consolidated power. he's redrawn the lines. he said this is the way our country is going to work.

he cannot wipe out the critique that prigozhin made of this war. prigozhin was outspoken. it gave him a lot of popularity. he said this war was not necessary. our army is not performing well. in truth, if it hadn't have been for prigozhin filling the gap in bakhmut in the east in ukraine, russian forces might have been obliterated in some of that fighting. it's a mixed legacy, but i do think on balance, we see putin reinforcing his personal control and the rules of the game in russia. >> david, you got a new piece out with some reporting on the state of that war and what u.s. officials are thinking about it, that it is not a stalemate but it's not a victory either. it seems to me, from reading what you've written, the thinking is that this is going to push on into a second year. the question is, if this pushes on for another year, this kind of offensive or reiteration of it, is there confidence in the administration that there will

be continued allied military commitment to ukraine, the kind of levels that ukrainians would need? >> so, katty, let's break down the pieces of this analysis. all across our government the last few weeks, officials have been trying to make an assessment of how the ukrainians did in their counteroffensive. awful lot of u.s. hardware went into it. weeks of planning, war gaming simulation. what are their judgments? first, there won't be the breakthrough, cutting russian land access to crimea. the hope had been ukrainians troops could get all the way to the sea through zaporizhzhia or in other ways get to the black sea, cut that land bridge. the judgment is that's not going to happen. that goal won't happen. even so, this isn't a stalemate, as some people say. the ukrainians continue to make slow progress.

they took a key village yesterday that they've been trying to obtain for weeks. so there is the sense that they still could make some significant gains before mud and winter bring major combat operations to a close. in this period, there's been a lot of critique of how ukraine has used u.s. weapons and doctrine. they need to be more mobile. they're still fighting in two soviet a style. they expend enormous amounts of artillery. i was given was estimate, that they have fired 2 million rounds of artillery, just an enormous quantity, saturating the target and then moving. the u.s. has a different view. you fire at artillery, move quickly, fire artillery in support of your targets. i think another conclusion is that, yes, this war will go into another year, and the u.s. needs to begin preparing by providing what people are describing to me as the force of the future for

ukraine. it'll include the f-16 jets that are on the way and other weapon systems. the idea is for a longer term commitment to stability in ukraine that isn't simply dependent on the u.s., who knows who is going to win our presidential election next year, but that reinforces european commitments, germany, the netherlands. interestingly, it's the dutch and the danish who are supplying the f-16s, not the u.s. final point i think that has come out of this review, katty, is a recognition that, for now, diplomacy, something the biden administration has yearned for, has talked with china about, diplomacy isn't likely to happen now. putin simply isn't ready for it. he still thinks he can outlast the west on the ground. he can pound and humble ukraine. so, for now, unfortunately, there is not a diplomatic exit ramp, so continuing next year

with this idea, the force of the future as a better guarantee of ukraine's long-term independence and ability to defend itself. >> david, with putin tightening his grip on power and certainly showing no signs of stopping this war, at least before the 2024 presidential election in case one of his buddied gets back into power here in the u.s. as you say, there's concerns, though, about the u.s. future commitment to this. white house officials i speak to say they're pretty they're going to be able to get the funding package through congress this fall. maybe not the size they want, but they feel like they're still, despite loud opposition on the far right, they still think they can do it. they also recognize it's only going to get harder as polls continue to show that americans are tiring of this war effort a little bit or concerned about how much money is spent. if this does play out as you suggest, into next year and beyond, military officials you

speak to, how worried are they that, eventually, that funding is going to dry up and could prove disastrous for ukraine? >> i think there is concern about that. the response is two-fold. first, they're front loading as much as they can. you'll see, while they still think they have significant congressional majorities, the effort to get more equipment, more of what ukraine will need through next year, through additional fighting. second, they're trying to broaden the base of ukraine's support. it's not as dependent as it's been on the united states. that may be a heavy lift, but my sense is that in europe, the commitment remains strong. there's lesswavering than you see in the united states. the former president in france expressed sympathy for russia, andnounced over the weekend by russian president macron and other russian -- excuse me -- french president macron and others.

so i do think european support is not crumbling, but there is an effort to think carefully. how do we sustain this long term? putin's main bet is that the west will tire and give up. so people are trying to address that very directly. talking, planning, planning what the specific forces will be, where they'll come from, who will pay for them, to avoid precisely the problem you're describing. >> the biden administration, of course, has remained steadfast in its support of ukraine, promising more support as the war goes on. some republicans in congress more skeptical. "the washington post"'s david ignatius, thanks so much. we appreciate it always. >> thanks, willie. ahead this morning, we'll go live to atlanta at the start of what will be another eventful week in fulton county following last week's 19 jailhouse surrenders, including one by the former president of the united states. plus, one of our next guests says the investigation of fani willis marks an abuse of power

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just before the top of the hour on a monday morning, as you have a live picture of the white house. it is monday, august 28th. i'm willie geist. jonathan lemire, katty kay, the reverend al sharpton all still with us for this hour. we begin with what investigators are calling a racially motivated attack in jacksonville, florida. three people were killed after a gunman opened fire inside a dollar general store. nbc news correspondent marissa para has the latest from the scene. >> reporter: a community grieved lives tragically lost. >> this is tough. this is home. >> reporter: angela carr, gallion and laguerre, known as a.j., shot and killed saturday

after a gunman opened fire at a dollar general store. >> pretty sad, what happened. really sad. >> reporter: the fbi now investigating this as a racially driven hate crime. >> he was a failure as an individual because he hates a group of people and decided he wanted to kill 'em. >> reporter: the jacksonville sheriff identified the gunman as 21-year-old ryan christopher palmeter, who penned writers detailing what he thought about the black race and what he planned to do. florida's governor calling the violence unacceptable. >> targeting people due to their race has no place in the state of florida. >> reporter: authorities released these short clips capturing the rampage. at the dollar general store, he is seen wearing a tactical vest, armed with two guns, one of them hand drawn with swastikas. >> my lord, can't even go to the dollar store. >> reporter: this day of horror witnessed by shocked neighbors outside. >> i heard five shots. >> reporter: officials say before driving to the dollar general, the shooter stopped at edward waters university, a

historically black university nearby. police say this video shows what they believe is the gunman getting ready with his bulletproof vest. at 12:57 p.m., the shooter leaves campus, drives to the dollar general, and minutes later, fires 11 rounds into a car outside. >> the suspect is on video in the parking lot in front of the store shooting into a black kia and murders the first victim. >> reporter: they say the gunman enters the store and continues firing, killing two others. >> he let several people out of the store. why, i don't know. some of them were white, but i do believe there was a couple that were not. >> reporter: at 1:18 p.m., the shooter texts his father to enter his room. what he found was almost 30 pages of writings and a suicide note on his laptop. meanwhile, law enforcement arrived 11 minutes into the gunman's rampage, right before he took his own life with his own gun. where did the firearms come from? were they legal guns and legally possessed? >> they were 100% legal. as i stand here with you today,

they were legally possessposses. >> reporter: the heartbreak in jacksonville, the latest hate crime in the country. last year at a grocery store in buffalo, new york, a shooter motivated by white supremacist ideology killed ten people, most of the victims also black. the latest fbi data showing a nearly 12% increase in hate crimes between 2020 and 2021. where hate robbed lives and shattered hearts -- ♪ amazing grace ♪ >> reporter: -- the community leans on love to piece them back together. ♪ how sweet the sound ♪ >> marissa reporting there for us from jacksonville. rev, you mentioned the last hour of the tops shooting in buffalo a while back, where a person walked into the store, because that's where black people bought their groceries, and indiscriminately started firing and killing people. an 86-year-old grandmother, and you go down the list.

here, you have people buying a few things, including a 19-year-old who was working there, and shot for the crime of being black. you have this combination that we've seen too often, which is, a trail of hate, which it was explicit in this case in all those writings, and a high-powered weapon, two of them in this case, including an ar-15 style weapon that had swastikas painted on it. >> when i heard the details of what happened in jacksonville, and i've talked to some of the leaders and ministers in the area, it reminded me almost to the tee of what happened in buffalo. hate, a manifesto and weapons that i and many others have been advocating ought to be against the law. we cannot stop hate. we can preach against it. we can talk against it. but we can stop people from being well armed to execute hate. for the both of these killers,

to have these kinds of weapons able to them, these are the kinds of things that we must resolve. i mean, today, martin luther king's family and some of us that did the march on saturday are meeting with president biden and vice president harris. one of the things we're going to stress is we must continue to challenge the congress, the senate to do something about these gun laws. they could not have done these mass shootings without being able to legally buy some of these weapons. and not even have a break ground -- background check. we have to stop going from one episode to another and change the laws and policy, as we also address the hate, racism and anti-semitism. >> as the sheriff pointed out, these guns were bought legally, including with background checks. he did have a mental health evaluation, involuntary hold six years ago, but that didn't show up on his background check because he was not committed in this case. the victims are angela carr, 52

years old, shot in her car in the parking lot at dollar general. jerrald gallion, 29, just walking into the store. and. laguerre, working a job at dollar general. we'll have more on this story later on in the morning. in georgia today, former trump chief of staff mark meadows is seeking to have his election interference case moved to federal court. ryan nobles has a preview of what to expect. >> reporter: as former president donald trump remains defiant in the face of four criminal indictments. >> i did nothing wrong. >> reporter: a high-stakes hearing is set for fulton county, georgia. mark meadows, trump's former chief of staff, and one of 18 trump associates charged in fulton county for running what was akin to a criminal enterprise to conspire to steal the 2020 election, requesting his case be moved to federal

court. >> mark meadows is essentially arguing that he fits within the federal criminal removal statute because he was acting at the behest of a federal official. >> reporter: district attorney fani willis issuing subpoenas for elections investigator watson and secretary of state raffensperger to testify. raffensperger is the republican secretary of state who took this call from trump in the wake of the 2020 vote. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. because we won the state. >> reporter: the hearing will be the first opportunity to hear from some of these key witnesses in open court. if meadows is successful moving the trial to federal court, it could have an impact on other defendants, including trump himself. >> the jury pool will come from a larger geographic area, and they may be able to drag there some of those suburban trump

voters. you'd also be taking the state prosecutors out of their home-court advantage. >> nbc's ryan nobles reporting there. let's bring in senior reporter for the atlanta journal constitution, tamar halleman. she is outside of the courthouse in atlanta. what a busy week you've had in fulton county. let's talk about the hearing we'll get today, the so-called removal hearing, where mark meadows, the former chief of staff, of course, to former president trump, wants to have his case moved out of fulton county into a federal court. what is the case he is making, and what will that hearing look like today? >> reporter: well, former chief of staff meadows is arguing that everything he did, all of this alleged criminal activity included in the indictments from earlier this month, first of all, he is saying that he is routine. you know, he's saying, "i'm getting in trouble for asking state officials for phone numbers, connecting the president to people, visiting election audit." he claims that in and of itself

is not criminal. he's also saying that he was acting in his capacity as a federal official. he said part of the interest of federal officials is making sure state elections run smoothly. we're expecting a very long day today at the federal district court behind me. four witnesses at least have been subpoenaed. we're also expecting a preview of sorts from the d.a.'s team about their case going forward. this is the first courtroom test of d.a. fani willis and her indictments. it'll be interesting to see if there's any kernels about what might be ahead in this case. >> interesting that secretary of state brad raffensperger, one of the four witnesses today, the man on the other end of the phone call on january 2nd, 2021 we heard from president trump, quote, trying to find the votes. three people chargd alongside trump in the georgia interference case have apparently flipped. the three georgia republicans falsely claim to be electors for trump but say they took the

steps they did because trump told them to do it. according to court filings last week, those three false electors said it was trump and his campaign lawyers who urged them to sign the false documents, claiming they were necessary to preserve former president's court efforts to reverse his defeat at the hands of joe biden. the three co-defendants stated those demands from trump's campaign lawyers amounted to permission from the federal government to take the actions they did. jonathan lemire, this is the "trump made me do it" defense that could be compelling if they're willing to provide some evidence in this case. we're also seeing it in other places. the mar-a-lago case, you have the i.t. guy flipping and saying, "hold an a second, i'm not going to jail for this." >> exactly right. first of all, we know it was a defense tried out by the january 6th rioters. it was less effective there. judges and juries found them responsible for their own actions. but this is different. this is happening, of course, before the cases go to trial.

potentially, potentially, could be offering some pretty important evidence here against donald trump and his top aides. tamar, tell us a little more about what we know about this, about these individuals. the members of the republican party there in georgia, folks you probably covered now and then over the years, tell us a little bit about them and what they are alleging here, and how, potentially, they could be useful in the prosecution. >> reporter: sure. d.a. fani willis last summer alerted all 16 of the republicans who served as alternate electors here in georgia that they were investigation targets and could see charges as a result. at the end of the day, she only ended up pursing charges against three of the electors. david shafer, the head of the georgia gop, who allegedly helped coordinate this meeting, as well as state senator shawn still and cathy latham, who was the chairwoman of the coffee county gop, who was there when

sullivan stricter, a data company hired by sidney powell, came into the election offer to copy data. what is different, these folks are activists, not national level figures. they're not as wealthy. they don't have the connections that somebody like donald trump has. so it could be in their interest to try to cut a deal. at the same time, some of these folks are true believers in terms of this election was stolen, so maybe they want to have their case heard. i wouldn't go so far to say they flipped at this point, but that is certainly an avenue to watch. they've deployed a really unique legal theory by saying they were acting as federal officials in georgia, even though they are not federal officials. they said by serving as alternate electors, they were federal officials under the electoral count act. >> tamar, i mean, another indication, the fact these are not all super wealthy people with very good connections is that one of them is actually in jail at the moment because he hasn't been able to post bond. tell us a little bit about harris floyd and his situation.

>> reporter: harrison floyd was the former head of black voices for trump, and he allegedly was involved in this campaign to pressure fulton county poll worker ruby freeman. you can hear his voice on some body cam footage when somebody went to visit her to talk. now, according to federal court filings, he assaulted an fbi officer in the jack smith january 6th case who was trying to serve him with a subpoena. so he said, you know, there was a hearing on friday when he asked to get out of jail. he said he didn't have an attorney. he'd asked for a public defender and was told by the counsel he did not qualify for that. attorneys say there is an awkward bubble. there's the folks who are the lowest income, who are able to qualify for free public defenders, versus the people in the middle who can't afford big, flashy lawyers. harrison floyd, in the meantime, remains in jail. >> "the atlanta journal

constitution's" tamar hall erman, we'll talk more as many moves forward. thanks so much. house republicans come to trump's defense on this. jim jordan ordered fani willis to turn over all communications her office has had with special counsel jack smith's team. the letter reads in part, quote, the circumstances surrounding your actions raise serious concerns about whether they are politically motivated. let's bring in attorney josh statin. he served as counsel at perry law. previously was co-director of the criminal practice clinic at vanderbilt law. in addition to serving as a public defender in memphis. let me ask you about your piece. i'll read from it titled, "jim jordan is abusing his power. fani willis should call his bluff." you write this, "if the fani willis request was the first of jordan's misfires he may be

entitled to a benefit of the doubt. but this comes on the top of dubious misdeeds from his office over the years that call into question his fitness for the office he holds. willis should call jordan's bluff and remind him of the words here, and as a supreme court put it, the national government, anxious though it may be to protect federal rights and federal interests, always endeavors to do so in ways that will not unduly interfere with the activities of the states," if it comes to litigations, they'll see through the part cal political theatrics they are. the careful balance of power between the states and the federal government, though long debated ever since our nation's founding and in the decades following, is now well-defined in all but the most extreme circumstances. this is not one." josh, let me start by asking whether d.a. fani willis has any obligation to respond to these requests from jim jordan, from the oversight committee. does she have any obligation to

turn over documents as she tries to do her job in atlanta? >> well, at the moment, she's actually just received a letter from jim jordan, so at the moment, she hasn't received a subpoena. she wouldn't be under any legal obligation to turn it over, even if the subpoena would be enforceable. if she ends up getting a subpoena, i think the law is clear that she wouldn't need to turn over documents even under those circumstances. i was a public defender. i'm currently a criminal defense attorney. i can't tell you the number of times i wish i could have gone to a federal court or even to congress and said, "hey, this is unfair that my client, who is innocent, who has done nothing wrong, is being prosecuted here." it's just the case that in a state court, the federal government, federal courts, congress, they just don't have a place to be able to come in and request documents and figure out what is going on in the head of the local prosecutor, whether it is fair or not. >> rev, as josh writes, this is

a tactic jim jordan, the oversight committee, used previously with alvin bragg in the d.a.'s office and the stormy daniels case. this is an intervention on behalf of donald trump. >> and i think that it is clear, and i would like josh to address it, that we really are seeing, as they talk about the weapon sizing of the justice department with no evidence, they're weaponiing congress in areas that they really have no business even being in. and if you allow that to continue, you would have congress people decide to do their politics by committee summons or subpoenas or by committee inquiries, which really undermines the whole process of law at a state or federal level, josh. >> right, exactly. basically what this is, it's taking what is really a routine state prosecution and, you know,

that we can view, again, whether it's fair or not, and so many state prosecutions against individual defendants we may have differing views about, but congress has no place to question the individual judgment of an individual prosecutor in an individual case. there might be circumstances where congress could look at how are federal dollars being spent at this district attorney's office throughout a year, over many, many cases. there might be circumstances where congress has a place to ask, are civil rights being violated systematically? it is inappropriate for a sitting congressperson to send a letter, and we expect, a follow-up subpoena to try to interfere with a prosecution. >> can i broaden this out and ask about the timing issues? look, nobody seems to think fani willis is going to get her desire to have all of this -- the trial of all 19 defendants

start next spring, but we've seen a couple say they wanted speedier trials. what would be the implication for donald trump's trial, for example, even if it was pushed back later, if there were speedier trials? would this be the risk of the prosecution reveals bearing in mind there is an election coming up? could the evidence have an impact on voters as they go to the polls? how do you see it playing out if a couple defendants got a speedier start to their own trials? >> as a criminal defense attorney, i can tell you that nothing is more helpful than finding out what is the information that's going to be testified to at trial ahead of time. so if these other co-defendants actually manage to have their trials in advance, that gives trump a really big advantage by the time it is time for his trial because he knows what those witnesses are going to say. he can -- his lawyers can prepare questions with that

information in advance. that puts him in a better spot. now, the evidence is pretty overwhelming against him, so i'm not sure how helpful that will end up being. but it certainly gives them a slightly better shot than if he didn't have the information in advance. >> josh's piece is up right now at msnbc.com. attorney josh stanton, thank you for bringing it to us. appreciate it. an emerson college survey released in the last hour shows donald trump dropped 6 points in the polls. he still overwhelmingly leads his opponents. 50% of republicans saying they do plan to vote for donald trump in next year's primary. ron desantis, vivek ramaswamy back there two and three. 38, 40 points behind. let's bring in writer at large for the bulwark, tim miller. his latest piece is "trump is still the king." it's hard to deny that when you look at the numbers, tim. you look at that stage, eight people last week that, yes, they had it out, yes, some people had

good nights, and we do our usual analysis of it but it's an odd conversation having when somebody is not on the stage 30 points ahead of anyone who is. >> yeah, for sure, willie. that article you referenced is about i went to the louisiana republican party convention over the weekend and wrote about it. actually, the first speaker came to the stage and said that she had just come from the debate. she knew who she thought won the debate and wanted to hear what the crowd thought. people started yelling, "trump." i was listening, trying to hear any other names. i couldn't hear any other names. everyone yelled, "trump," and the speaker responded, "yeah, i thought so, too." you know, that tells you the state of affairs among republican party regulars in red states. you know, trump is the dominant force. there was not a sign there in lafayette, louisiana, that there were other candidates people were interested in, and this poll shows that. sure, he dropped 6 points, but he is still at 50 points. 50 points, you know, a majority

within the field, with ron desantis next at 12. the only person that seemed to me to do real good for themselves on the stage was nikki haley. she popped up five points. she's working to consolidate the mainstream, old school republican lane, if you will. the problem is, even if you add up nikki, pence and christie, all those candidates together, you really only get to about 20%. maybe she can consolidate that, but where do you go from there? >> tim, we certainly discussed earlier in the show how much money trump has made off of the mugshot and everything else. some of that has to go to legal bills. he has a massive fundraising advantage. there are some polls that suggest that though trump is, as we've been talking about, is far and away the favorite, but some of his support might be softer. at the very least, republicans are willing to consider other options, even on electability, though they have great personal affection for trump.

is that supported by anybody you've talked to? maybe not in this deep red enclave here, but is that a sense out there, or is this sort of, like, this is trump and trump's to lose. unless there is some black swan event, we should get used to it? >> i think both those things can be true. we should start to get used to it and prepare for how insane it is. somebody indicted four times is likely to be the nominee. when i was in iowa a couple weeks before louisiana, you'd hear from people like that, who are for trump and still, you know, considering their options, still a littlened about his baggage. if you looked at the iowa poll a little over a week ahead, he had two-thirds of his support in the state were, you know, saying they were sticking with him no matter what. then there was another third. if you look at that, that puts him in the high 20s, low 30s, right, in iowa? that conceivably leaves open a possibility if somebody, you know, like desantis or ramaswamy or haley is able to consolidate

all of the other vote. you know, the problem with that is that, usually, in a big field, in iowa traditionally, being in the high 20s and low 30s is enough to win. you don't need to get up to 40 or 50 to get to the later states. i think it's not like there's no path at all. there is some soft support among the trump fans, but, man, he's got a stranglehold on a good third of the party right now. >> he does. you saw that up close in louisiana the other day. i guess that opens the question of, is there anything that can change that dynamic? there is, of course, a third of the party that's not going anywhere, no matter what he does. they're not going to leave him. in fact, the mugshot and the indictments only emboldened them. they believe the story that he is a martyr. is there anything between now and the next, i don't know, six months or so as we move through the primary process that changes that dynamic? are there enough republican voters who said, "i've had enough. let me try someone else"?

or does it feel, to you as a republican and somebody who worked in the party, that this is locked in at this point for donald trump? >> i don't want to say locked in. you know, it feels very trump friendly. you know, it feels very good if you're in donald trump's camp right now, which i'm not happy to report. you know, one thing that could start to change that, you know, would be a good first step, i guess, if i was still in the business of giving advice to other republican candidates, is they could stop doing trump's talking points for him on these investigations. maybe start to chip away at that, you know, one-third of the third, if you will, that is available. try to get him down into the 30s rather than in the 40s in these polls. you know, at this convention i was at, the folks going on stage, louie gohmert, a little clownish, but everybody on stage is talking about how, "well, it doesn't matter who we nominate. we shouldn't consider electability because the doj is going after anybody.

the doj is corrupt." people were clapping and going along with that. here's the problem, is that even up to nikki haley, desantis, ramaswamy obviously, they are all echoing that talking point for trump. they're all saying that this is a corrupt investigation. you know, it would help to make the argument that trump electable, to make the argument it is not practical to go with him if his opponents would start at least, you know, cutting out this b.s., that this is an unfair investigation, the doj is so corrupt that they'll go after any republican. the doj is not going after ron desantis or mike pence or nikki haley. so the whole talking point is b.s., but the voters believe it. fox and trump's own opponents are helping them believe it by continuing to advance that message. if they stopped that and made a practical case against trump, yeah, maybe you start to see a little bit more movement. >> long way to go. we'll keep open minds and see

what happens. of course, there is the extraordinary moment where six of the eight people trying to unseat donald trump raised their hands and said, "yes, i will continue to support him and vote for him even if he is convicted." tim miller of the bulwark, thanks so much, as always. still ahead on "morning joe," today marks 60 years since martin luther king jr.'s "i have a dream" speech and the march on washington. presidential historian doris kearns goodwin joins us next with her thoughts on that historic day. plus, members of the united auto workers union have overwhelmingly approved possible strikes against some of the biggest carmakers in the united states. we'll talk to democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan about that. of course, much, much more when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪♪ open talenti and raise the jar to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to flavors from the world's finest ingredients. and now, from jars to bars.

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that is a beautiful live picture at 7:30 in the morning from atop the washington monument, looking down the mall to the lincoln memorial. today marks the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. reverend dr. martin luther king jr.'s "i have a dream" speech. as many as a quarter million people gathered on the national mall on this day in 1963. in honor of that moment, thousands gathered on the national mall on saturday, including dr. king's family and a number of civil rights leaders. >> we need us all to be engaged. dad would probably say, now is the time. we must preserve, protect and expand democracy. >> the dreamers will win. the dreamers will march. the dreamers will stand up. black, white, jewish, lgbtq, we are the dreamers, the children of the dream. let us march in the name of the dreamers. >> as we remember and honor the lives and legacies of those who

mortgaged the paths that we walk toward acceptance and equal rights, we would be remiss if we did not also honor and acknowledge the black lgbtq history and undergirding of the march. >> if you are a young woman like me, you could have fewer personal rights. no matter who you are, you could be less safe from random gun violence and irreversible climate change. that's why i believe that my generation will be defined by action, not apathy. >> that's yolanda king, the 15-year-old granddaughter of dr. king. joining us now, the ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt. the adl participated in saturday's march. and also with us, pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. good morning to you both. jonathan, we saw you marching next to reverend sharpton over the weekend. tell us why it was so important, you believe, to have your

organization, the adl, as part of this commemoration. >> well, willie, i'm so glad you asked, and this is a powerful way to start the week. because the truth is, is that 60 years ecessorpredecessor, epstein, was there standing with dr. king. adl had marched with dr. king years before and years later in salma. adl was there. it was important for me to be there to honor that legacy, but i've got to say, willie, what really stands with me and sits with me this morning is, you know, the rev said, this is a continuation, not a commemoration. while we marched, the shooting took place in jacksonville. just as, you know, 60 years ago after they marched, there was the bombing of the church in birmingham. the fight against hate, this battle isn't just a battle for black people. it's a battle for jewish people. it's a battle for all of us because the hate that's coming for them is also coming for us.

so, for me, it was crucial to be there, to honor the legacy, and to also be clear about the fact that the fight continues and we're all in this together. >> jonathan, al sharpton. one of the things that i think was so important about saturday as we gathered was not only the numbers, even more than we had put on the parks permit, but it was diverse. a lot of people from different races and backgrounds came. >> yeah. >> and as you said, we look at the fact that we're looking at jacksonville, that was happening while we marched, and some of the concerns we had. you and i and the national urban league, marc morial and others, had convened a hate crime summit a year ago at the white house with president biden and vice president harris. here we are a year later, and hate explodes in jacksonville while we're marching. you and i are part of the

organizers meeting with the king family and president biden today. is it not time to move toward real, hard legislation that would disarm the haters? if we can't stop the hate, we can take the kinds of weapons -- let's not forget, this guy in jacksonville targeted blacks but put a swastika on the ammunition, which is blacks and jews. you and i may not agree with everything. i'm sure members of your board and my board don't agree on everything, but we are targeted. we are not doing anything about disarming those that would target us. >> look, you're making a really important point. african-americans, anti-black hate crimes are the largest number of hate crimes in the country according to the fbi. black people are the most targeted on a volume basis. on a per capita basis, jews are the most targeted minority. so our two communities, as i said at the lincoln memorial,

our fates are intertwined. they are really indivisible. we need action. rev, we should keep in mind that what happened in jacksonville, to be honest, it wasn't a surprise. yes, there is a through line from charlatan to charlottesville, el paso to pittsburgh, buffalo and now to jacksonville. it is also not a surprise, because if you look at extremist-related murders over the last decade, 75% of them have been committed by right-wing extremists. look, there's hate on both sides. no one political party has a monopoly on morality. but the problem of violent extremism and white supremacy, you know, rev, they're coming for you and they are coming for me. we are going to talk to the president today and demand the kind of action to finally deter and stop this kind of madness before it spreads even further.

>> doris, talk about something you've been thinking about, which is the importance of a kind of sense of community and collective consciousness. you know, i think most people from the outside would look at america in the late '60s and think that was a time of enormous tumult and lack of sense of community. actually, if you look at trying to get common action today, the country is so divided and so polarized, it's hard to see how america comes together on almost anything, but particularly on the big issues we've been talking about this morning. >> yeah, i mean, i think what shattered more than anything between the march and today is that sense of a common consciousness that can be fired up. once it's fired up, change happens. people say, "this isn't the world we want to live in. we want something different." that's what i felt. i mean, i was there 60 years ago, 20 years old. i was in between my junior and senior years in college. it was the most cherished moment of my memory, and it is not just nostalgia because i was 20 years

old. it was the first time i ever felt i was involved in something far bigger than myself. the first time i felt i was involved in something that could make a difference in the country. what is important to remember, we in history recognize that we know that march ended up well. 250,000 people, not a moment of violence. at the time, people were so anxious in those weeks before. i remember in washington a state of emergency had been set up that day. all hospitals were not to do elective surgery. they expected so many casualties. the baseball game was canceled. bars were closed. liquor stores were closed. the buses that came in had to leave that night. there was such a fear of violence. what an incredible job a. phillip randolph and others did. jfk introduced a civil rights bill earlier in the summer, and i heard about this meeting where martin luther king said, you always say the things that i'm involved in are ill timed. actually, this timing is really

good because it'll show the country what we are fighting in the south. i remember when i got there, i was given a round pin that said, "march for jobs and freedom," then i had a poster perfectly suited for what we're talking about today, the adl and black community. mine was catholics, jews and protestants unite for civil rights. all the people there, just looking at them, there was a sense of community. of course, i remember martin luther king jr.'s speech, but even more, i think, at the end of the march, we held hands and sung "we shall overcome." it was all of us together as part of america. you're so right, that's what has been shattered today. how do we get that back? look what happened after birmingham, when conners sent the dogs against the crusade. it fired the conscience of the country and led to the civil rights act. when the troopers in salma came against the people marching peacefully on the bridge, it

helped defy the conscience and the voting righting act was passed. it's that conscience we need to get, the sense of community back again. if we have that, we can move forward. without it, we can't. >> doris, how lucky for us to have a first person account of the march on washington from you this morning. if you can, just for our viewers, everyone, of course, knows that the "i have a dream" speech was a watershed moment in this country, but just put into context where we were as a country at that point in august of 1963. as rev pointed to in our last hour, it was just about 2 1/2 months later. the birmingham bombing that killed four young girls, 14 and 11-year-old girls at the baptist church. less than a year later, the civil rights act was signed. there was so much in the air when dr. king stepped up to that microphone. >> what was so important was for many years already, black people in the south and with their white compatriots, too, had been sitting in, had been marching,

had been demonstrating in one state after another. what the march meant was all these people came together as a national thing. one of the important things king said, not only "i have a dream," but he talked about at the end, "let freedom ring." he went through the parts of america, "let freedom ring." he was stitching together the whole country that was recognizing that civil rights was a problem, not just for black people but for all of us to be a better country as a result of that. it was a very tumultuous decade. just as you say. but there was a sense hate could be met by conscience, and that was the critical thing that happened. it was met time and again. unless we do that again, the hate is out there. you saw it, you're right, in the four kids at the baptist church right after it, just as we saw in jacksonville, right in the middle of this march. but i think as the rev has said and all of us have been saying this morning, there's only one measure of hate we can bring to it, and that is to fight. to keep demonstrating. to march and to make sure we take away the reasons these

people are able to exercise their hate upon us. >> that march -- >> it was an extraordinary decade. i'm glad i grew up then. it was a turbulent time, but it was a sense in which you felt that private lives were connected to public policy. it is that feeling again i hope the younger generation could have known what it was like. glad to have been young in the 1960s. >> inspiring stuff there from doris. certainly, rev, you know, the march 60 years ago, important step but the journey is long and continues today. you obviously were there this weekend. you're going to see the president later today. give us your final thoughts here. >> final thoughts are, if we are going to break through this whole level of hate and division in the country, it is going to take those of us that are out front to be courageous. one of the things that doris eluded to is the courage of dr. king. don't forget, dr. king was attacked by elements of the black community for being too

non-violent, being too soft. he stood up to that. i think what jonathan and marc morial and others of us have to do is have the courage to stand up to the extremes in our own base. say, "we've got to stop this and get something done. otherwise, we're going to keep playing to the crowds." one of the things i talked to jonathan about, we had no provocateurs at saturday's rally. we were able to pull it off without incident or violence at all. i'd love to see a split screen on people's newscast of showing january 6th and august 26th, last saturday. that's how you're supposed to come to washington and make your point, what we did on saturday in the spirit of dr. king. >> yeah, it was a moving day over the weekend, led by, in large part, by you, reverend sharpton, and you, jonathan

greenblatt. thank you so much for being with us. adl's jonathan greenblatt. also, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. always good to have you on the show. up next, kevin mccarthy is talking again about an impeachment inquiry into president biden. it comes as congress faces a tight deadline to prevent a government shutdown. member of the oversight committee, congressman ro khanna joins us next on "morning joe." >> woman: why did we choose safelite? >> vo: for us, driving around is the only way we can get our baby to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we needed it fixed right. we went to safelite.com. there's no one else we'd trust. their experts replaced our windshield, and recalibrated our car's advanced safety system. they focus on our safety... so we can focus on this little guy. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ )

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gather so far, it is a natural step forward that you would have to go to an impeachment inquiry. >> mccarthy's comments come as he claims the president has not provided documents concerning republicans' multiple investigations. house republicans have alleged the biden family has received payments from foreign countries, as well as preferential treatment for hunter biden. in a social media post last night, trump criticized republican lawmakers for not moving forward with the threat of an inquiry. writing in part, "impeach the bum or fade into oblivion." let's bring in democratic member of the oversight committee, congressman ro khanna of california. good to have you with us. james comer said previously that, in fact, they are getting all the documents that they've asked for from all the organizations they've asked for them from. he's also said, "well, we haven't drawn a connection yet between hunter biden and president biden, but we believe there's a lot of smoke." so far, no fire. what is your sense of why

they're going through this exercise and where it ends? >> talk about a downshift from your previous segment, where we're talking about the inspiring march on washington and dr. king. now, the petty politics of the modern house. i mean, what we should be doing house is legislation for the shooting in jacksonville, what we should be doing is talking about economic costs, child care costs. instead this speak her is not focused on the issues that people care about. i didn't get one question at my town hall on hunter biden or joe biden. and joe biden is not a single thread of evidence that single payment went to president biden. and it is total politics. donald trump was impeached twice. they want to try to bloody up the president for 2024. this is all politics and nothing to do either with the law or helping the american public.

>> so while the republicans are focusing on this potentially impeachment inquiry, one thing the american people probably do care about is the federal government staying open. as we noted, there is not a lot of time to get a deal done. there has been some momentum to some short term spending bill passed, but what is your sense of where things stand? a lot of stuff can stand over recess asyou well know. where do you see this going when you guys resume next month, how worried are you the government could shut down? >> i'm concerned. and the reality is that the president made a deal with the speaker to avoid the debt default. some of us didn't like the deal. i didn't like the deal. i mean, in my view it had too harsh cuts on social programs, but the president made a deal and now the speaker is saying no, that deal is no longer valid. we want additional cuts to programs like social security or medicare or other housing programs. and that is just not going to

fly. he has to stick to the deal that he made with the president. again the problem though is he has a caucus that on his side was upset with that deal and the question is whether he will be able to persuade them. but it is a risky situation and like you said, there are only about 11, 12 days to get this done. >> congressman, let's take a little detour from electoral politics and talk about something that i think every single parent around america is concerned about at the moment and that is child care and the cost of child care. there really is a crisis, it is costing something like $10,000 a year on average for people just to look after their children. far too much money. you and congresswoman nancy mace of south carolina, the republican, are launching a child care caucus. what do you think you can do to make child care more affordable for americans? >> well, according to a republican pollster, 86% of americans believe that the government needs to do something to bring down child care costs. as you pointed out, it is on

average $10,000 for every family, almost 10% much income. and 85% of women say when they leave a job, it is often because of child care concern. so we need to do a few things. one, we need to provide more government support for child care on september 30th, there is a cliff, the american rescue plan funding runs out, almost 70,000 child care centers will lose money. i'm working with nancy mace and others to try to get that funding extended in the short term. in the long run, i believe that we should have $10 a day child care, that would be maximum costs of $2400 a year for families and that is something that the government should be willing to support through quality child care providers. >> child care cliff, something a lot of people may not know about but should look into. congressman ro khanna, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you.

coming up next, simone biles makes gymnastics history again. yes, she's back. we'll show you the record she just broke at the u.s. championships over the weekend after that two year break following the tokyo olympics. highlights when "morning joe" comes back. so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta®. the forget-you-get migraine medicine™.

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home run for california. winning 6-5, winning the little league baseball title yesterday.

that home run came an inner after being tied. california has eight championships, most by any state. simone biles has made history again. ten years after her first championships, she captured area eighth all around title, the first since the two year break from competition. and boy, is she back. the 26-year-old now the oldest woman to win a national title since usa gymnastics began organizing the event in 1963. it is great to see simone back and doing her thing. still ahead, republican presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy made strange claims yesterday about mike pence's authority on january 6. we'll tell you what he said and where he falls in this race. and one of our next guests explains why ramaswamy's brand of politics is gaining traction

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the manifesto is quite frankly the diary of a madman. he was -- i mean, he was just completely irrational. but with his irrational thought, he knew what he was doing. he was 100% lucid. he knew what he was doing. again, it is disappointing that anyone would go to these lengths to hurt someone else. his sickening ideology is not representative of the values of this jacksonville community that we all love so much. we are not a community of hate.

we stand united with the good and decent people of this city. we reject this inexcusable violence. >> that was the sheriff in jacksonville describing the white gunman who carried out an emotional rampage saturday afternoon killing three people. we'll have a live report from florida in a moment. also ahead, a hearing in washington later this morning could determine the time line now for donald trump's federal election interference case. we'll explain what is happening in that courtroom today. meanwhile this mug shot has been worth millions of dollars already for the trump campaign. more on the record-breaking donations coming in just ahead. plus, an update out of russia on the suspected death of a mercenary group leader who was once a close ally to president vladimir putin. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it is august 28, joe and mika are off this morning. with us we have jonathan lemire back in the building.

and also with us, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay. and the president of the national action network host of "politics nation" the reverend al sharpton. good morning to you all. today marks the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. and reverend, dr. martin luther king jr.'s "i have a dream" speech. as many of a quarter of a million people gathered on the national mall on this day in 1963. in honor of that moment, thousands gathered on the national mall on saturday including dr. king's family and a number of civil rights leaders including yourself. you were there, this is something that you've been telling us about for many months, anticipating connecting dr. king's dream and that speech 60 years ago to where we are today. tell us about the weekend. >> well, the weekend was very invigorating. we were able to see a cross section of people of all races.

it was inter-generational. we had expected 75,000 people. we did a lot more than that. when you looked out at the audience, it was under bushes because of the heat, but when we got ready to march, you could see throngs of people interracial, inter-generational, led by the kings. and it was the anti-defamation league and it was the prime national organizations for latinos and asian-americans and native americans. and young students. there were like over 100 buses that came in from hbcus that businessmen helped the action network sponsor. and in the middle of it all, not knowing to us at the time is this hate crime in jacksonville. and before martin and andrea and

i got back to the hotel, we heard about this shooting. so in many ways, the unity and the hope that the march showed and the believing in the dream was hit with the reality that hate still exists with the weapons that are available to maximize that hate in terms of ar-15 rifles, swastika drawn on the rifle, the reality of where we are hit us as we go forward as celebrating where we've come in 60 years but realizing how far we still have to go. >> and we'll talk more about that shooting in a moment. but one of the things that you were trying to do at this march was hold institutions accountable who made pledges after george floyd was murdered but haven't actually delivered on them yet. where are we on that? talk about out country has moved since george floyd when the images were everywhere,

companies were putting out press statements everywhere. what are they actually doing in the name of racial justice and how much are they putting their money where their mouth is? >> well, sadly we have a lot more broken promises than fulfillment. one of the things that was stated at the march and it was center in my statement was that we are going to target companies that have made commitments in the moment of george floyd, in that movement. and there was over $300 billion committed, commitments made on contracts and doing business that has not been fulfilled and in some cases totally taken back. so when we looked at businessmen that were there that did perform

and we look at the list, we've done and an analysis of the companies that made commitments and what they delivered, they will be the people that we come out of this march saying we're the consumer of the product. so i said we have dreamers and schemers coming out of this march. >> and as you said over the weekend, this is a continuation, not a commemoration, of the march on washington. a lot of work ahead. and new development out of jacksonville where three people were killed in what police are calling a racially motivated attack. saturday two shoppers and an employee were shot at a dollar general store near historically black college edwards waters university. all three victims were black. authorities say the 21-year-old gunman who was white died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

they describe him as a maniac who wanted to kill black people, said they found more than 20 pages of racist writings on his laptop. police say the suspect legally purchased the two guns used in the attack, a glock and gun and ar-15 style rifle with swastikas drawn on it. the gunman had no criminal record but was sent for a 72 hour involuntary psychiatric evaluation in 017. under florida law, those evaluations do not show up in background checks unless the person was committed for treatment. joining us from the scene of the shooting is jay gray. jay, what more can you tell us today? >> reporter: good morning. you can see the scene behind us, investigators still poring through, looking for any evidence to help them understand why and how this attack was carried out. several hundred gathered outside

of the police tape for a vigil calling for unity, praying for help and hope in a community that has really been rocked by what has happened here over the weekend. the 21-year-old suspect you talk about, walking into the store but beginning his killing spree outside, firing into a vehicle in the parking lot and killing a 19-year-old employee in that car. and then as you mentioned inside the store killing two more employees. what investigators are telling us, that he let several people inside that store go, a couple white, but others that he allowed to leave before opening fire. he was leaving the dollar general as police met him at the door. he rushed back inside, barricaded inside an office and apparently turned his weapon on himself. we know that he left several letters, a suicide note and what police are calling manifesto, hate-filled, rage-filled notes

talking about killing african-americans. his first stop though was at edwards waters university. he was confronted by security there. don't know about that interaction. what we know is that he did use that area kind of as a basis for operation getting things prepared, putting on a tactical vest and mask. a sheriff said he did have an opportunity to open fire at that university, chose not to, instead driving to this location about a mile away. >> just horrific details of this story and explicitly racially motivated. jay gray there in jacksonville, thanks so much. jonathan, the president put out a statement last night said he was praying for the victims and also added we must say clearly and forcefully that white supremacy has no place in america. >> yeah, the president very

strong with his language there. certainly sadly familiar tale that another moment of this, the nazi swastikas emblazoned on the gun, online manifest at the full of racist and vile imagery, fueling this attack. and reverend sharpton, as you noted, it came as you were participating in that march in washington suggesting how much further we have to go. and it was so reminiscent to me of the shooting in buffalo a year ago. i was with president biden when he went to this scene, that grocery store, the site of another racist mass shooting. so as you see this, that is a year ago, this over the weekend, these things keep happening. just what does it stir within you about how much further our nation still has to go? >> well, it stirs in me a sense of sadness, but also a sense of urgency. we must deal with the weapons of hates. i don't know -- i'm a minister and i have deep faith and i mean

that sincerely, but i don't know that we can get everyone out of hatred that has hate in them, but i do know that we can stop facilitating it with assault weapons and not even a background check. the president and the vice president has invited members of the king family and some of us that organized the march on saturday and commemoration and continuation to meet with them at the white house this afternoon. and we are going to have frank talks on in the name of what the march was about in '63. we need to have legislation, the senate and the congress must make their agreement with the president to do something about it. it is just like buffalo because this store was the only store in

the area just like tops was in buffalo. so he knew where to go to get a large amount of black people. another thing striking to me, to jonathan and rest of us talking this morning, when you study the '63 march, this great more than and "i have a dream" and a quarter of a million people and then a couple weeks later a mom bombed the birmingham church and killed four girls. so it is almost scary how we see history repeat itself. thousands come with hope across racial lines and hate reminds us that our job is not finished yet. >> yeah, hate sees a moment to push back and as you say in this case and too many others, hate combined with powerful weapons. we'll come back to this story of course throughout the morning and talk more about this 60th anniversary of the "i have a dream" speech as well. there is legal news today, a judge is expected to set a trial date in the federal election interference case against former president trump. at 10:00 eastern time this

morning, lawyers for both trump and the justice department are scheduled to appear before district court judge tanya chutkan for a status hearing. the team for special counsel jack smith has proposed the trial begin in early january of this coming year. in response, trump's lawyers requested the trial not begin until april of 2026. the former president has pleaded not guilty to four charges related to his alleged efforts to stay in power following his 2020 election loss to joe biden. meanwhile regarding the charges against trump and 18 co-defendants in georgia for election interference, former white house chief of staff mark meadows is pushing to move his case from fulton county to a federal court. there are at least four witnesses subpoenaed to testify at [']'s hearing on that matter including georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. meadows was on the now infamous call where donald trump asked to find the necessary votes to win the state. >> i only need 11,000 votes.

fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have because we won the state. there is nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. >> january 2, 2021. meadows plans to argue that he was acting in his capacity as top aide to president trump so it should be in federal court. and also there will be a push by several defendants for a speedy trial. let's bring in our justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. let's go back to the federal matter first, with judge chutkan announcing we think at about 10:00 this morning a trial date for the jack smith special counsel prosecution of donald trump for an attempt to overturn the 2020 election.

what are you hearing about that gulf between the proposed dates, one early january 2024, the other from the trump team april of 2026, where might it fall in there? >> good morning, willie. well, both proposals are probably unrealistic, but the trump team proposal is sort of in left field. it is not even what remotely realistic. so most legal observers believe that judge tanya chutkan will set a trial date sometime next year before the november 2024 election. it is not likely to be in january of next year, it could be around this time or in the summer at some point. and whatever date she sets may not hold, but it will give us an idea of her thinking about how quickly this case can get to trial. i'll be covering this hearing outside of that federal courthouse today. it is actually as pretrial positioning goes, this is probably one of the most important pretrial hearings in this case because of the profound effects on the

election. and it is really our first chance to hear from judge chutkan on a really important matter. >> so can you spell out then what this could mean in terms of the timing and the run-up to the election and what we might learn by the end of today? >> well, we'll learn exactly how judge chutkan views this case in terms of its complexity. and whether she buys at all the defense the arguments that because they are receiving 11.5 million documents, remember, that they said equivalent to reading war and peace eight times a day from now until the beginning of the trial, whether that means that need a year or more to prepare for this trial. the prosecution, the special counsel, has said that is ridiculous, yes, it is a lot of documents but we're in a computer age, you can use key word searches, we'll help you -- tell you what the key documents are. besides which a lot of this evidence is very familiar, it was developed and made public by the january 6 committee. so we'll see what judge chutkan

thinks of these arguments and whether she sets a trial date before the summer, before the november election. it will really set the tone for where this thing goes from here. >> so going down to fulton county, georgia, ken, mark meadows has said i want this in federal court, i don't want to be tried by fani willis. so what is your sense of his chances of that? most people say that is probably a long shot. is there a shot he gets it moved out of there? >> i think there is a better chance then say donald trump had when he tried do the same thing in the new york case. but just to be clear, biden told but -- i've been told that they will continue to prosecute it in federal court. they may need to bring in prosecutors with federal experience, they may have to file paperwork to appear in federal court. but nothing would change if he wins except it would be heard by the federal judge. still the state charges.

it is a weird law designed to protect federal officials who are acting under the color and authority of their office. of course the biggest argument against meadows in this situation is you heard the tape there, the recording, donald trump was not acting as president in that moment. he was talking about the election. he was asking the secretary of state of georgia to find votes. so if meadows was involved in that meeting or other activities like that, and he claims that he was acting as a federal official, the d.a. will say, sir, weren't you violating the hatch act which prohibits federal government officials from engaging in politics. so interesting to see exactly what his argument is there. >> so meadows is one of those 18 co-defendants along with donald trump making it 19, trump down in georgia, turning that mug shot into a record-breaking fundraising haul. according to politico, trump's campaign claims to have had its best day of fundraising yet polling nearly $4.2 million friday night alone making it the sinkest highest 24 hour period

of his campaign to date. $7.1 million in the 48 hours since the mug shot was released. much of that comes from t-shirts,bumper sticker, coolers. you see some of it there. the campaign also has been peppering online donors with emails and text messages. trump's campaign says that it has raised nearly $20 million in the last three weeks, that figure is more than half of what trump raised during his first seven months in the 2024 race. so we kind of expected this, jonathan lemire, that donald trump would make a virtue and yes, sir a t-shirt, had it pushed out almost immediately in a fundraising email thursday night. the question is, yes, it is exciting and it raises a bunch of money for your base support who are do view you as a martyr and victim who is being prosecuted by joe biden, that is not the way this works of course, but that is the tale he is telling them. the question is does it help him beyond that. he does have to win if he gets

through this primary a general election. does a mug shot do all these cases against him, as he believes, help him? >> yeah, there is speculation when he was first indicted in new york back in april when we thought there might be a mug shot, there was a race to say trump will monetize that. of course no mug shot was taken there or in the federal cases. but now that we have one in georgia, they didn't waste anytime. and that is a lot of money, you're right, you can get it 00 coffee mugs or t-shirts. i even see over the weekend people getting it as tattoos although i don't think that trump makes a lot of money off that. but a lot of this money has to go to his legal bills. and this is something that as you say, it is one thing to give us energy in a primary, but different in a general election. on the subject of georgia, one thing that struck me is this idea of some members indicted along with trump want these speedy trials. explain to us what that means. and if granted them, sydney

powell and others who have asked for them, what could it mean for the trialinging -- the timing f trump's own case? >> kenneth chesebro and sydney powell have both asked for a speedy trial. in chesebro's case, the judge granted it and set a trial date for october. at the same time donald trump's lawyer is saying that he wants a delay and that he is going to pursue a motion to sever donald trump from the rest of the defendants or at least any defendant that want as speedy trial because trump doesn't want one. because as we know, the penultimate strategy is to delay. and so that is where it stands. it will be interesting to see whether any of these defendants

actually get what they want and get a trial as soon as, you know, this fall. hard to imagine something happening in october, but it qut donald trump will not be among those seeking that speedy trial. >> so you have georgia and then the big one today as you said in washington where we could find out a trial date obviously critical next year as it is dropped in the middle of a presidential campaign. we'll see in a few hours. ken, thanks so much. coming up, one of the leading candidates for u.s. senate in michigan. congress one elissa slotkin is standing by, she joins our conversation straight ahead. conversation straight ahead.

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donald trump following his decision to skip last week's republican primary debate and to surrender to georgia authorities and get that mug shot on thursday. according to the latest emerson college survey released this morning, trump support dropped six points from a poll taken earlier this month, but still leading his opponents overwhelmingly as you can see with 50% of republicans saying they plan to vote for him in next year's primary. nikki haley and mike pence saw the biggest bumps in support following the debate, but just up to 7% each. and vivek ramaswamy there in third place appeared on two sunday shows yesterday, some of his exchanges with chuck todd on "meet the press" -- >> if you believe donald trump is the greatest president of the 21st century, he's running. why are you running against him, why do you think that his second

term won't be as good as his first? >> well, look, i did say he was the best president of the 21st century. i judge by results. that being said, i believe that i can take the america first agenda even further than donald trump did. >> and again from your book, no one like as sore loser, that is one of the first victimhood complexes at all. are you referring to donald trump? >> i referred in that chapter both to stacey abrams and to donald trump. and i think that the answer irs stand for victory over victimhood. >> most of the candidates on stage said that mike pence did the right thing on january 6. do you agree? >> i would have done it very differently. i think that there was a historic opportunity that he missed to reunite this country in that window. here is what i would have said. we need single day voting on election day. we need paper ballots and we

need government issued i had i.d. matching the voter file. and if achieve that, then we have achieved victory and we should not have any further complaint about election integrity. which i would have done through the senate. >> so would you have done not certify the election? >> i would have led through the senate through that level of reform and then on that condition served the election results and president sign it into law and on january 7 declared the re-election campaign. i think that was a missed opportunity. >> vivek ramaswamy on meet the press. joining us now, matt lewis from "the daily beast." before we dig into the latest piece, parse through some of what he was saying yesterday with which you can. i mean, we heard a lot of that at the debate. does he believe any of that? i mean, he is a small guy without question. sounds very cynical to most

people, that he is trying to impersonate trump, be a stand-in for donald trump. >> i like the ramaswamy who wrote the book like two years ago that made some very good points. not as of the ramaswamy today who is contradicting and flip-flopping on all those points. and look, he is a very -- obviously a very intelligent person, he is very eloquent, he can go on tv and express himself very well. and then it is only after you unpack the points he makes that he realized most of them are kind of b.s. so for example the idea that mike pence, the vice president of the united states, had the power to tell states who by the way run elections, you know, that mike pence had the constitutional power to tell these states they had to do in-person voting and that they had to have paper ballots and all of these things, and then it was mike pence's responsibility

not donald trump's responsibility -- remember, donald trump is telling people don't do mail-in voting which again is interestingly vivek actually did mail-in voting. chuck todd asked him how he voted in 2020. he didn't vote in person. he did mail-in voting and he cited a global pandemic as the reason. maybe that is why a lot of other people did the same thing. so again, if you just listen to him, maybe you are flipping the channel or something, he sounds incredibly compelling and eloquent, but when you start to unpack the things he is saying, they don't usually hold water. >> and that is what happened on the debate stage as well when he said cut off all the funding for ukraine, i'd issue a preemptive pardon for donald trump and climate change is a hoax. chuck just read his book back to him and said that is not what you were saying two years ago in your book. in your piece you write, how is this that vivek ramaswamy a

skinny kid with a funny name on both sides of numerous issues became the hottest commodity in the republican party. how was he considered one of the big winners of wednesday night's debate despiteis performance. if you want my honest answer, why should we expect anything less? the buzz surrounding ramaswamy reminds us that the problem is not trump per se but a culture that rewards and incentivizes trumpian behavior. once you understand and accept this reality, it is easier to make political predictions regarding the gop. who wins? the people who have no sense of shame, people who are willing to kiss your butt or slit your throat depending on the circumstances. the really danger is not ramaswamy or trump, but what our enthrallment with politicians like them says about our political parties. so where does that leave someone likekki haley or mike pence

or chris christie who are trying to in many ways go about this like a conventional presidential campaign watching donald trump and vivek ramaswamy rise next to them? >> well, look, on one hand i think that if you watched that debate, you could say, hey, there is hope, right? if you are a reagan republican, if you are a freedom conservative, if you are someone who believes in kind of limited government and traditional conservative values, not the quote/unquote new right, you might have watched that's debate and concluded, hey, everything is great. you know, chris christie did a great job of supporting ukraine against russia's invasion. mike pence rhetorically did a great job. but i think nikki haley did a fantastic job. she i believe overperformed certainly my expectations. so you might have watched that debate and concluded things are pretty good and if trump were to disappear, we might be in okay

shape, the republican party might come back. the problem is if you start to add up the polling and consider who is winning, something lik 75% or 80% of vote republican voters are supporting either donald trump, vivek ramaswamy or ron desantis. so the people we've mentioned here, mike pence, nikki haley, chris christie, that is21% of t. so maybe not as cheeries as the debate made it look. and the last thing i'd add is the attention economy. who is getting the attention and the buzz and the excitement. it is vivek ramaswamy. he is winning that argument or at least that part of the campaign right now. and you know, in my piece i talk about the road to surf dom and he has a chapter that talks about why the worst get on top. he was talking about

totalitarian regimes where like the old soviet union, it is not trotsky who succeeds lennon, it is the worst, stalin, someone willing do whatever it takes to win. obviously we're blessed had we don't live in that kind of regime here in america, but i think that the dynamic is similar. that it is the worst people and the republican party right now who are more likely do what it takes to get to the top. >> this is al sharpton. you know i ran in 2004, so i know about the debates. we did a lot of debates during that time. and i watched these debates -- this debate the other night looking at the fact that when you walk on that big stage and those big lights hit you, it is different than anything you've ever experienced. did you get a sense of those that were on the stage that just didn't belong on the stage? they might be good politician,

they may have done things, but just seemed like they were not ready for that level of engagement and even ramaswamy who is getting a lot of attention, when you start going on national television saying that the vice president should have made conditions in order to certify an election, i mean, that doesn't make sense at that level. you can get away with that in college elections. but who do you see as not being able to really live up to the stage that they are at including ramaswamy? how long can you get along where people start saying that they are a little out of their category? >> well, unfortunately, i think that vivek ramaswamy is going to flourish despite the fact that i think that he is somewhat shallow, despite the fact that i think a lot of us find him off-putting, kind of condescending. and despite the fact that he often doesn't have his facts

quite right. interestingly, an interesting move in the republican primary, he is quite often kind of eludes to barack obama, steals barack obama's lines including telling mike pence that, you know, guess what, the cold war is over, 1980s are behind us, that kind thing. i actually think that ramaswamy does well in this environment which i think is very superficial. in my opinion, the person who is not quite ready for primetime in terms of the show, right, getting up there under the lights is actually ron desantis. i was surprised to see that there was a poll that came out, a "washington post" poll that came out right after the debate that showed that ron desantis actually went up in the polls a little bit. and that people thought that he won. it could just be that he was able to fly under the radar, that he was not attacked, he was not -- but i believe in this attention economy being the center of attention more often

than not is a benefit. that was vivek, that wasn't ron desantis. so i think that desantis is the one that has the most work to do in terms of being able to be on that stage eloquently. >> yeah, it was very telling last week at the debate that the attacks from the other seven you might think would go at ron desantis who is the leader. but they were all going at vivek which is the point you made in your piece. matt lewis, thanks as always. good to see you. coming up, nikki haley is back in her home state today campaigning for president. we'll go live to south carolina where ali vitali has an update on the republican race for the white house. morning joe is back in a moment. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care.

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carrying 23 u.s. marines crashed on a north australian island. at least three marines were killed, five others taken to the hospital with serious injuries. according to a u.s. military statement, the incident happened yesterday at 9:30 a.m. local time during routine multinational training exercises. the marine corps did not release the names of the marines killed. the 12 day exercise scheduled to end next week. the cause of the crash is still under investigation. meanwhile russia says dna testing has confirmed head of the wagner mercenary group was on board the passenger jet that exploded near moscow last week. though neither u.s. intelligence nor nbc news has confirmed yevgeny prigozhin was in fact on the plane. american officials say they believe that it is likely he was. and that it a. detonated bomb is what caused the explosion. western officials have said prigozhin's apparent death may have been in response to his attempted coup in june. but the kremlin denied having anything do with that explosion.

joining us now, from the "washington post," david ignatius. good morning, good to see you. so is this as simple as most people believe it is which is that yevgeny prigozhin attempted a coup, he stopped just short of moscow, and a couple months later he was killed for it? >> so it seems to me that putin has basically redrawn the lines, the social contract and putin's russia is stay out of politics and you can have your share of turf. putin allowed prigozhin to become more and more powerful but prigozhin clearly crossed the line, challenged putin himself, marched on moscow. and this is the result. i'm struck by the official announcement that he is dead which then leaves open the question, okay, who killed him? will they have an official investigation of who killed him? i doubt it. or at least not a fair one. but i think that putin has consolidated power. he has redrawn the lines. he said this is the way our

country is going to work. he cannot whip wipe out the critique. prigozhin was outspoken and he said this war was not necessary. our army is not performing well. in truth if it hasn't been for prigozhin filling the gap, russian forces might have been obliterated in some of that fighting. so it is a mixed legacy, but i think on balance we see putin reenforcing not just his personal control but rules of the game in russia. >> and you have a new piece out with reporting on the state of that war and what u.s. officials are thinking about it, that it is not a stalemate but not a victory either. and it seems to be from reading what you've written that the thinking is that this will push on into a second year. and i guess the question is, if this offensive pushes on for another year or reiteration of

it, is there confidence in the administration that there will be continued allied military commitment to ukraine at the kind of levels that ukrainians would need? >> so let's break down the pieces of this analysis. all across our government the last few weeks, officials have been trying to make an assessment of how the ukrainians did in their counteroffensive. an awful lot of u.s. hardware went into it, weeks of planning, war gaming, simulation. so what are their judgments? first, there won't be the breakthrough cutting russian land access to crimea. the hope had been that ukrainian troops could get all the way to the sea of azov or other ways get to the black sea, cut that land bridge. judgment is that that won't happen. that goal won't happen. even so, this is not a stalemate as some people say. ukrainians continue to make slow

progress. they took a ky village yesterday that they had been trying to get to weeks. so they could still make significant gains before mud and winter bring major combat operations to a close. in this period there has been a lot of critique of how ukraine has used u.s. weapons and doctrine, that they need to be more mobile, that they are still fighting in too soviet of style. they spend enormous amount of artillery. i have given an estimate that they have filed 2 million rounds of artillery, saturating the target and then moving. and the u.s. has a different view. you have to fire artillery and then move quickly, fire artillery in support of your targets. i think another one conclusion is yes, this war will go into another year and the u.s. needs to begin preparing for that by providing what people are describing to me as the force of

the future for ukraine. it will include the f-16 jets that are on the way, it will include other weapon systems. but the idea is for a longer term commitment to stability in ukraine that is not simply dependent on the u.s. who knows who will win our presidential election next year. but that reinforces european commitments, germany, the netherlands. interestingly it is the dutch and the danish who are supplying the f-16s, not the u.s. so final point that i think has come out of this for you, katty, is recognition that for now diplomacy, something the biden administration does yearn for, it has talked with china about, diplomacy is not likely to happen now. putin simply is not ready for it. he still thinks that he can outlast the west on the ground. he can pound and humble ukraine. so for now unfortunately, there is not a diplomatic exit ramp.

so continuing into next year with this idea the force of the future has a better guarantee of long term independence and ability to defend itself. >> so with putin certainly showing no of stopping this war least before the 2024 presidential election in case one of his buddies gets back into power here in the u.s. as you say, there's concerns, though, about the u.s.'s future commitment to this. they're pretty confident they're going to get the funding package they want this fall. despite some loud opposition on the far right, they think they can do it. it's only going to get harder. if this does play out into next year and beyond, military

officials, how worried are they that funding is going to dry up? >> i think there is concern about that. the response is twofold. first, they're front loading as much as they can. while they still have significant congressional majorities, an effort to get more equipment, more of what ukraine will need through next year. second, they're trying to broaden the base of ukraine's support. it's not as dependent as it's been on the united states. that may be a heavy lift, but my sense is that in europe the commitment remains strong. there's less wavering than you see in the united states when former president in france

expressed sympathy he was immediately denounced by president macron and others. i do think european support is not crumbling. but how do we sustain this long-term? putin's main bet is that the best will tire and give up. i think people are trying to address that directly, talking, planning what the specific forces will be, who will pay for them to avoid the problem you're describing. coming up, what's driving the day on wall street. s drivin the day on wall street

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david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. coming up, donald trump's $7 million mugshot. how the former president is cashing in on his legal trouble. cashing in on his legal trouble.

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. ♪♪ beautiful shot of los angeles there. boy, are they glad they have mookie betts, and i wish we still did. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. i'm jonathan lemire along with reverend al sharpton and katty kay for this hour. it could be a decisive day in court for former president trump. two different hearings in two different federal courtrooms today with the former president right at the center of both. the first kicks off in less than an hour at a federal hearing in atlanta. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, all eyes are on the federal courthouse in downtown atlanta, where after more than two years of investigating, fulton county d.a. fani willis is expected to layout some of her case against former president trump and his

18 codefendants, all charged with trying to overturn trump's 2020 election loss in georgia. >> the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise. >> reporter: today's hearing centers around mark meadows and his push to move his case to federal court, but the d.a. has subpoenaed key witnesses, including georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger, who was on the receiving end of that now-infamous phone call from then-president trump. >> i just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> reporter: it comes as a federal judge in washington is expected to rule regarding a different case against mr. trump, preparing to set a trial date in his federal election interference case. special counsel jack smith wants to start in january 2024, but

trump attorneys are asking for april 2026, well after the presidential election in which mr. trip is currently the gop frontrunner. and in georgia, the d.a. wants to start in late october, though a judge has not yet signed off. >> these trial dates are going to move. it's unrealistic. >> reporter: all of it on the heels of mr. trump's historic surrender last week and that mugshot. the trump campaign reports it's raised more than $7 million since last week's surrender in what the campaign calls its most profitable 24-hour period ever. >> joining us live from outside the courthouse in fulton county, georgia, is msnbc legal contributor katie phang. so much happening today. what are the key things you're looking out for?

>> reporter: the first thing i want to know is will mark meadows show up today. mark meadows has the burden under the law to prove he should be removed to federal court from state court. that's the big question. number two, will the judge issue a ruling today? in my professional opinion based upon being a trial lawyer, i don't expect a ruling from the bench. i expect a written order in detail. this is an evidentiary hearing today. it is an opportunity for fani willis to put on evidence. we should be hearing from brad raffensperger as a witness on behalf of the state of georgia. we're also going to hear from the chief investigator from the secretary of state's office. walton has compelling testimony, because mark meadows directly interfered in the state of

georgia when it came to counting ballots and audits. there was an offer from mark meadows to francis watson for the trump campaign to pay to expedite this audit. >> talk about what's going to be happening up in d.c. it's also a big day in jack smith's january 6th federal case. we're going to have a hearing at the courthouse in d.c., which could give us some sense of the timing of the trial going forward. >> reporter: yes. what's going to happen in d.c. is we're going to find out today from judge tanya chutkan when that election interference trial will take place. we have a trial date in may for the classified documents case. we also have other trials that have been set, including the manhattan d.a.'s case against donald trump in march of 2024. we know jack smith wants this

election interference case to go to trial in january of 2024. i can reasonably anticipate that we're going to get probably a late spring/early summer trial date for donald trump. >> thank you very much. we'll be watching the katie phang show weekends on msnbc. despite a series of polls that show donald trump well ahead of his republican primary opponents, there is another new survey out that suggests that the former president could be in serious trouble if he's on the ballot in next year's general election. joining us now with analysis of those numbers is a former federal prosecutor.

tell us about these poll numbers you're seeing and what's your analysis? is there more here than what appears on the surface? >> yeah. there are a few important things to keep in mind. we asked respondents whether they want jack smith's case to go to trial before next november. 60% say it should go to trial before next november. in our latest poll, 50% of folks say donald trump should go to prison if convicted in the january 6th justice department case. that's the highest number we've seen so far.

i think we're seeing significant interest on -- [ inaudible ] >> i think as these cases proceed, they're going to be learning more negative things about trump as he's running for reelection. >> that's part of this, right? that's the case democrats are making. they're saying, we don't need to talk about trump's legal issues, because they're going to saturate the media day in and day out. next year he's going to be dashing from courtroom to rally site back to courtroom. if those independents who are so often those who decide close elections, is that the theory of the case that by this time next year trump's number with

independents might be so low that he'd have a very hard time winning in november? >> that doesn't seem to be the white house's theory of the case. i think our analysis shows these cases are not helping trump despite what he claims. they're going to be a drag on him in a general election. the major caveat here is if people are considering a head-to-head challenge between trump and biden, this is not going to be the only issue. the economy and foreign policy, people are also concerned about that. we're seeing some initial signs of drag on some numbers, but it's hard to say what'll happen between now and next november. >> isaac, you wrote the story

about this $7 million windfall that former president trump had. as this develops, do you think every time there's a major step toward trial or major step toward whatever is going to happen on the calendar in these four cases against him that he's going to continue to have a bump up in fund-raising and does that keep him in these campaigns that can keep buying spots on television and social media, in other words, fuelling his campaign more and more if he keeps getting this kind of reaction in terms of fund-raising as we see more developments in his legal problems? >> if past is precedent, the answer to that question is yes. his campaign has been able to

really turn these cases into cold, hard cash. they have been able to sell these indictments, turn them into merch, find ways to appeal to supporters and get them to open up their wallets and really been able to connect with them in terms of their anger at what they feel is an unfair legal system. it's worked in terms of helping trump fill his war chest. a lot of his fund-raising over the course of the year has been driven by small donors. some of this money is going towards his campaign. but some of it is also going towards his political action committee which is paying his legal costs. on one hand, you have help in terms of running his campaign. on the other hand, you have help in terms of paying your lawyers.

>> can we be clear on the $7 million. this is coming from the trump campaign. are we confident those numbers are correct? >> that's what they're reporting. we'll be able to get a clearer sense of all the fund-raising numbers the campaign has when the next quarterly filings come out. >> we saw a big bump in fund-raising for him after the new york indictment, but the next two didn't lead to such a big bump in fund-raising. is this just because of the merch around the mugshot, or are we going to see an uptick in trend here? >> the merch clearly played a significant role in his trump's fund-raising windfall this past

week. the fact that there was an image that could be put on t-shirts and coffee mugs, that really spiked fund-raising. it gave people something to purchase. it's not just the trump campaign that's seized on this mugshot to make money. you're also seeing other organizations like barstool sports website that's basically been doing its own t-shirts. this has really become a big money machine over the past four or five days. you're seeing people able to turn this mugshot into fund-raising. >> talk to us about where the trump campaign sees the race after the debate. there's been a little bit of movement. some of his competitors went up a little bit, nikki haley, mike pence and vivek ramaswamy. trump dipped a little bit in some state polls, one in iowa in particular. how are they viewing that?

are they going to reconsider the decision to perhaps not attend the next debate? >> you know, by all indications, they're still pretty confident with where things stand, both nationally and in early primary states like iowa and new hampshire. by all indications, trump has basically said he's not going to participate in that second debate next month. he's basically ruled it out. by all indications, it would be a real surprise if he showed up at this point. >> thank you both. republican presidential candidates are hitting the campaign trail in south carolina. former governor nikki haley and senator tim scott will hold separate events in their home state today. scott has four planned stops, while haley will host a town

hall. florida governor ron desantis was also supposed to visit south carolina today, but cancelled the trip due to the shooting in jacksonville as well as the tropical storm that's expected to make landfall in his home state of florida later this week. joining us from south carolina is capitol hill correspondent ali vitale. also lauren leader. ali, give us a sense as to what we'll hear from these two candidates. there's a sense among most republicans that nikki haley did quite well in the debate last week, while tim scott made less of an impression. >> reporter: it's why both of these south carolina natives are coming back to their home state with opposite goals. for haley, it's to continue

riding that wave of momentum. for senator tim scott, it's to try to walk the walk that wednesday night's debate was no big deal for them. scott is just trying to continue out here on the campaign trail getting as many events in as he can before he gets hunkered down for september. it's why we're watching him try to bank so many events. for nikki haley, what wednesday night's milwaukee debate showed was that she could be the adult in the room, leveraging the fact that she has deep executive experience as a two-term governor of this state, but also foreign policy experience as a

former u.n. ambassador. we're watching her try to be the adult voice in the room on abortion access. this is an issue we've talked about a lot. we will continue talking about it, because reproductive rights has been such a galvanizing issue at the ballot box. the thing i hear is that these republican candidates will get pushed to the right and boxed in on restrictive abortion policy and then they're going to have to figure out how to campaign on that in a general where they are squarely out of step with the american public. nikki haley says there's no way for them to do an abortion ban on a national level, because they don't have the numbers in the senate and haven't had them in decades. she's right, but she's also using that as an opportunity to get out of the conversation.

pence pays 15 weeks. desantis is at six weeks because that's what he signed in florida. haley is trying to play it both ways by saying to the base that she's pro-life, but then by trying to speak to a general election audience by saying whatever republicans are saying about a national abortion ban can't actually get done because they lack the numbers. nevertheless, we're going to keep trying to press her. it's a fascinating dynamic for the only woman on the stage to take this role. >> one of her tactics on the campaign trail has been not to go after president biden, but instead to attack his vice president kamala harris. let's take a listen. >> my concern is we cannot have kamala harris as president. we can't chance this.

>> kamala continues to mess up everywhere she can. the one job she's been given is the border. she refuses to go there. she continues to sound extreme. >> on biden and harris's watch, this woke self-loathing has swept our country. it's in the classroom, the board room and the back rooms of government. we're told our country is flawed, rotten and full of hate. joe and kamala even say america is racist. >> i've been to the border. i didn't pull a kamala, go and come back, i went 400 miles down that border. >> a lot of republicans are subtly making this argument invoking president biden's age, suggesting this next election is about his vice president kamala harris. haley has been doing this by far the most explicitly. what is your read of the strategy? >> it's fascinating.

kamala has had these historically low approval ratings relative to other vice presidents. haley is banking on the fact that the right loathes her and that is going to be a winning strategy. there is a lot of irony there that on the one hand nikki haley is willing to invoke her gender. and then on the other hand, she's playing on this idea that kamala is secretly the shadow president, which is also disinformation and has some gender tropes there too. it's a really difficult path for nikki haley. she's operating and running in a

party that is overwhelmingly male and also trying to appeal to the republican women who will be vital in the election and are certainly vital primary voters while also playing down her gender and playing up her gender and lobbing gendered attacks against the first woman vice president. it's not a simple knot to untangle. >> i also think it is a very cynical play to try and play on the fact that she's trying to imply that president biden will not be there for all four years if he's reelected, which i think is very cynical to suggest. she's also playing to certain elements of the republican party on race. you talk about president harris, who is a black woman and a woman. i think for nikki haley herself

being a woman of color, i think it's very cynical on all ends that she's making some implicit appeals to some biases that i feel she has to be intelligent enough to know what she's playing into. >> i think this has always been a complicated line for republicans of color. i think you see tim scott on these issues too where he talks about his childhood and his race, but completely doubles back in the other direction, which is that he has never been a victim of racism, that he doesn't experience those things, that the country is not racist, et cetera. i think you see nikki haley doing some of the same things, trying to connect with republican women. i think that's not the wrong calculus. we've had mostly republican male candidates completely overlook

women's issues. it's a really tight line and a complicated act. i think people are calling it out because it's really difficult. >> this white house and the president's reelection campaign, they know this time around the vice president will be far more central to this election than in 2020. lauren leader and nbc's ali vitale, thank you both. we are learning more this morning about the white gunman who killed three black people in a racially motivated attack at a dollar general store in jacksonville, florida. police say the gunman left behind a suicide note and pages upon pages of hate-filled writing. gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> i am tired! >> reporter: this morning a jacksonville community is grieving the stunning loss of three people shot to death in

what place say is a racially motivated attack. the gunman sent racist writings to local law enforcement, the media, even his own parents expressing his desire to kill black people. officials releasing video of the gunman in a tactical vest because he opened fire in the parking lot and inside a dollar general saturday afternoon. >> he let several people out of the store. why, i don't know. some of them were white, but i do believe there were a couple that were not. >> why so young? >> reporter: one victim's family says he worked hard to take care of his 4-year-old daughter. >> my grandbaby keeps saying where's my daddy. i don't have the words right now. >> reporter: police say the

gunman stopped at a nearby edward waters university, a historically black institution, where a school security officer saw him and called police to report a suspicious person on campus. >> what he did is totally unacceptable in the state of florida. >> reporter: at a prayer vigil, governor ron desantis vowing to provide more security to hbcus, but facing boos from the crowd. desantis has faced backlash over efforts to change black history education in public schools, with new curriculum standards including a controversial provision that some slaves developed skills that could be used for their personal benefit. >> that means they developed skills in spite of slavery. >> reporter: the shooter lived with his parents in this home outside jacksonville. a suicide note was found in his bedroom. one of the guns covered in

swastikas was recovered at the scene. >> that's gabe gutierrez with that report. coming up on "morning joe," new developments out of russia surrounding the reported death of a mercenary boss who was once a putin ally. a member of the house armed services committee, congresswoman alyssa slotkin will join the conversation about the war in ukraine and much more, including priorities on capitol hill when lawmakers return next month as well as her run for the u.s. senate. her run for the u.s. senate. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general.

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welcome back. russia says that dna testing has confirmed that the head of the wagner mercenary group was indeed on board the passenger jet that exploded near moscow

last week. everyone on board that plane was killed. now, neither u.s. intelligence nor nbc news has confirmed that yevgeny prigozhin was, in fact, on the plane. officials have said they believe it is likely that he was and suggested that a bomb detonated on board was what caused the crash. western officials have indicated prigozhin's apparent death may have been in response to his attempted coup back in june. the kremlin, for their part, denied having anything to do with the crash. joining us now member of the house armed services committee, democratic congresswoman alyssa slotkin of michigan. she is a former cia analyst and also a candidate for the u.s. senate. let's start with your read as to what you know of this plane crash in russia last week that

appears to have indeed claimed the life of yevgeny prigozhin. what does that say about vladimir putin's grip on power? and how does prigozhin's death impact russia's ability to conduct that war in ukraine and also foreign policy in places like africa? >> i think obviously anyone who's watched putin for even a couple of minutes knew that after the attempted coup or failed coup that there was going to be a reprisal and everyone should have been telling prigozhin to make precautions with what he ate and how he moved and how he flew. it's hubris on his part that he thought he was all good with vladimir putin. it's not a surprise. what's more important is the strategic impact and what it might mean in ukraine where wagner has been the most capable group fights on the front lines. now they're being asked to sign

a loyalty pledge. you don't sign a loyalty pledge if it's unquestioning that you support vladimir putin. so that's interesting. what they do on the battlefield, whether they refuse to fight, and russia's reach in places like west africa, i think it's going to be an interesting time. while putin sort of made a statement by killing this guy and blowing him up, it really is sort of a wait and see on what the strategic impact is. >> i wanted to ask you about the republican debate last week and the discussion over ukraine and continuing support. you have vivek ramaswamy saying that he would end support for ukraine. you had nikki haley saying that would be tantamount to supporting a murderer and much

more in favor of the traditional republican point of view. support both from democrats and republicans for the effort in ukraine isn't growing, but declining amongst members of both parties. the ukrainians don't seem to have pushed ahead as far as they want to with the counteroffensive, so it looks like it's going to last into another year. how would you persuade americans it's in their vested interest to keep supporting this war? >> i have this conversation a lot. certainly i have seen people from the right and the left, that debate was a perfect example, the crowd was roaring in support of desantis and others saying they didn't want to fund the war anymore. what you need to understand is putin is one of these guys that if you don't push back on him,

he's just going to keep going. today it's ukraine, tomorrow it's another country in europe. we've done a good job of maintaining a coalition pushing back on him, but we also know this war is unlikely to be won militarily. we've been supporting getting everything we can to the ukrainians in weapons to allow them to punch putin in the mouth this summer before the ground freezes this winter so that he's in a position of strength for whatever he wants to do in the next phase. the thing is the ukrainians understand the american political system. president zelenskyy understands support in the united states is not going to be a blank check. so i have to believe that there are conversations happening right now about where do we go on this offensive and where do we go on the next phase in the war. i will say wagner and what they do on the battlefield can also

affect this summer offensive. it's been tough going, but if your best and most capable troops are hanging out, signing loyalty pledges, not sure where they stand, that can also change the dynamic. that's certainly what we're pushing for right now. >> congresswoman, there has been some reference even by you this morning about wagner and their operating in africa. we've not heard a lot of discussion about what happens now in terms of their presence in africa and what happens now as putin has tried to use the ability of transporting or not transporting wheat and other things essential into africa. what i'm trying to get you to address, because it's not been discussed a lot, is is there any real concern from america's continued involvement in ukraine on other people that are impacted like africa and like others that are largely not in

the discussion, but are really in the middle of what goes on in this situation between wagner and russia and what putin's next moves may be. >> one of the stories of this war is what would have happened if there wasn't a deal on getting that wheat out of ukraine, the starvation that would have happened in countries that live right on the edge and particularly a lot of african countries. there were studies done at the very beginning of the war about instability, the risk of violence and political instability in countries across the globe if we couldn't get that wheat out. it's a big unknown right now. not only was prigozhin allegedly killed, it seems, but his number two, people close to him. so in any military organization

when you have the number one and the right hand of the number one taken out, there's no clarity. i think it's a little too early to tell what that's going to mean for countries in africa, but it will tell us a lot in the coming weeks who is named as the new head of wagner, what's their relationship to putin, are they able to maintain the loyalty of those troops around the world. >> we want to turn you to one other story here at home particularly of interest in your home state of michigan. members of the united auto workers are inching closer to a strike after voting overwhelmingly to grant union leaders the authorization to call strikes during their ongoing contract negotiations. i know you're watching this very carefully. there would be significant economic repercussions were this to happen. give us your sense where things

stand. >> the overall dynamics of the situation help us understand where it's going to go. you have record-breaking profits for the big three and you have the cost of living going up, the cost of housing going up and workers wanting their fair share of the american dream. i think there's a mood here in michigan that we are potentially heading for a strike. you're right that that would be economically devastating if it went on a long time. that's why it's important that both sides come to the table ready to have a real negotiation. the positive movement on some of the deals that have just been struck in ohio is really important. i just want to highlight the importance of coming to a deal on the new electric vehicle battery plant. we've made a decision as a country that we're going to diversify our cars. so that means the people at those plants need to make a living wage. they need to live in a middle

class lifestyle that is the commitment we should all have to people who work 40 hours a week and stay out of trouble. it's very important that we get it right. the news out of ohio about the first deal struck is really positive that they've had a significant increase in benefits and wages. >> congressman alyssa slotkin of michigan, thank you. let's bring in dom chu. what can you tell us. >> this is procedural. it's like the unionized auto workers signing the permission slip for labor leaders to use that potential work stoppage as a negotiating tool if they need to. it's about 97% of workers that did approve this action, which is just about in line with how many workers approved the last strike authorization in 2019. the united auto workers union

was in contract negotiations with the big three back then. if you look at what we're trying to ascertain, we've seen other labor deals already, the one in ohio, also the ups deal with the teamsters. the uaw is using its leverage in a tighter jobs market to try to get as many concessions as possible for the big three. the demands we've heard so far include a 46% wage increase. they want to bring back traditional benefits like pensions, cost of living adjustments, boost retiree benefits and reduce the workweek to 32 hours from 40. union leaders have said the goal is not to strike, but they are willing to do so to get a deal. if you're looking to see

where people are moving from states that are high tax, yes, they're going to florida. but what's curious is in a subtle way the news today is it's not just older workers or retirees going to florida, it's younger, wealthier workers. they looked at the states where young professionals age 26 to 35 making at least $200,000 a year and where they move to. florida tops the list. it then goes to texas and then new jersey in third place. that's an interesting trend. a host of companies are getting more forceful about getting employees back to the office away from remote work. the one thing some employees are not doing is actually staying in the office for very long.

it's an interesting piece in the "washington post." the workplace dynamic and paradigm changed because of covid. some workers are choosing to go to the office as required, but not stay there for the traditional eight-hour workday. they're instead opting to come in later or leave earlier, take care of personal things, maybe drop the kids off, pick them up from school. so a very interesting kind of workplace change taking place. we'll see whether or not employers start to crack down on the number of hours people spend in the office, not just the days. >> thank you very much. coming up next on "morning joe" -- >> black, white, young, old, rich, working class, poor. >> that's part of the trailer for the new netflix film

"rustic, which tells the story of the architect of the 1963 march on washington and his financial for racial equality. the director of the film will join us next as we commemorate the 60 anniversary. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" wi blle right back at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us.

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. the executive director of the march on washington, the man who organized this whole thing, mr. bayard rustin! [ applause ] >> ladies and gentlemen, we have effective civil rights legislation, no compromise, no filibuster, and that it includes public accommodation, decent

housing, integrated education and the right to vote. what do you say? [ cheers and applause ] >> that was the architect of the march on washington, civil rights activist bayard russ als

homosexual. >> we're calling for a peaceful march on washington. >> we are committed to the cause of altering the trajectory of this country towards freedom. >> you've got believe in freedom and justice for all. or they do not. >> joining us now is the film's director george c. wolfe. he has won a directors guild award and five tonys. jornl, george, thank you for

being here this morning. it's the anniversary this morning. people think of that day, they think of martin luther king jr., of course. they think of john lewis. tell us about bayard rustin and why you feel this is a moment we should all get to know him, too. >> bayard was an astonishing organizer. it's remarkable to think that they planned initially for 100,000 people to show up, and they had eight weeks to do it. instead 250,000 people showed up. there was everything there from phone there is so reporters could call in stories to water fountains. all the details you don't think about. also one of the things interesting, he had this theory that sound was so important and sound is how you turn a crowd into an audience. he required a very sophisticated sound system so everybody was a part of the same moment. every single miraculous detail

you can think of he covered and then some. >> george, this is al sharpton. i have been blessed to have seen the screening of this film. it's very well done. it's amazing. >> thank you. >> when i was 16 years old in 1991 -- i mean 1971, i'm sorry. i was trying to rob 20 years, but i'm not going to do that. in 1971 i started my own youth group. i left the youth director of operation bread basket new york chapter. i went to see bayard rustin who many people were because of -- he put me in touch with labor.

i'm a 16-year-old kid. when i left, i was saying, mr. rustin, thank you for your time. he says, young man, how are you going to start your own group with no money? he gave me the first $500 check. he told michelle horowitz, give him a check. i told them at the institute conference and she stood up and said, it's true, i gave him the check. she's also one of the features in your film. >> absolutely. >> talk about how richelle and bayard really enacted a lot of the things that dr. king and others in the civil rights movement leadership at the time that we remember today. they were like the ones that were the wheels that kept a coalition together of labor and civil rights and other groups. >> absolutely. one of the things that's really

interesting is when certain civil rights organizations were a little cautious about joining in, they engaged labor. they were able to put into place all the dynamics that they wouldn't have otherwise. they formed these incredibly intense co-lagses. bayard did what he did primarily with a team, like richelle, a team of kids. they were in their late teens and early 20s. they would work 12, 14 hours a day solving these problems, making connections. he formed coalition with the guardians, the plaque fraternal order of police and trained them in non-violence. those were the primary policing forces that were in play in washington, d.c. so he engaged every single aspect. he convinced mayor wagner to alter the subway schedule so, therefore, it was a rush hour schedule at 6:00 in the morning so everybody could meet their various buses around the city.

he engaged labor, the city, police, engaged anybody he possibly could to pull off this phenomenal event. there were also fears that violence and all sorts of things were going to happen that were going to be horrible. and nothing like that occurred because it was so smooth, so efficient and so gloriously focused on the agenda which is altering the direction the country was going in terms of race. >> george, changing the subject just a little bit. obviously, i know the directors are not on strike. it's so great to have you here, great to have new content being released. how much has the strike in hollywood affected your roleout of the film. >> it's interesting because i'm sitting here talking instead of some young, beautiful, handsome actor instead of me. it's had an impact in terms of that respect, but other than that, the film is completely done. we released the trailers. we're really excited about

sharing it, sharing it with the world. but more so sharing the story of this phenomenal, phenomenal american, more than anything else. he changed and altered this country in such a substantive way. because of who he was and because he was unapologetically who he was, he was pushed more into the background. i hope everybody will watch and see how important it is to honor those who have come before. >> you are certainly a handsome enough face to promote it. we appreciate you being here this morning. the new film "rustin" is in select theaters november 3rd and on netflix november 17th. director george c. wolfe, thank you for being here and congratulations on the film. here is a live look outside the atlanta courthouse where donald trump's former chief of staff mark meadows is expected to arrive soon. a hearing will begin in just a few minutes as part of his push

to move the fulton county election interference case to federal court. lindsey reiser will pick up the live coverage of all that's going on today after a quick final break. going on today after a quick final break. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪

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the attack and the gunman. also ahead, three u.s. marines killed in a helicopter crash off australia when a routine training exercise turned deadly. the latest on that recovery mission at this hour. new alerts along the gulf coast this morning with tropical storm ida