and continuing to pull off the impossible. like this vault, no other woman can do. as for what is next? >> it's one of those personal goals? >> not yet. >> the four foot eight dynamo is leaving fans on the edge of their seats. emily ikeda, nbc news. >> amazing. whether we do see her in paris or not, simone has already proven to be the greatest of all time. and an incredible world model for us all. and on that beautiful note, i wish you a very good night. good to be back with the. or for all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow! tomorrow >> thank you at-home for joining us. really happy to have you here. so he was discharge from the u.s. air in 1959 after heroic

service, frankly, heroic an unusual service. you will see what i mean from this headline that ran about him in ebony magazine in may, 1959. g.i. risks that 65 times for science. these images are from a documentary by the jacksonville historical society that credited the u.s. air force. and these images are realtime images of him in the late 50s at service in the air force, and they show some of what he went through as part of his service. his name was alton yates, his 23 years old in these pictures, it was the second class in the u.s. air force. and what you see him doing here, is participating in important testing that was conducted for the u.s. space program. they were using airmen in the u.s. air force, for tests that were designed to see whether

the human body could really withstand what we're expected to be the rigors of space travel. and the vast stretches of acceleration, and rapid deceleration, and presser changes, and everything else. ultimately it was not the only airmen who went through this, but he was one of them. and he participated in a huge number. 65 of those tests, tests of the human body in extremists. and he is fine, he lived to tell the tale and proudly. he was discharged in 1959 after that very honorable service, after he was discharged in 1959 he headed home. to jacksonville, florida. now around this time that he was getting out of the air force after this amazing service, this is the late 1959, early 1960. obviously there was tremendous organizing happening throughout the american self at that time. for the civil rights movement.

and for that young man who had been serving his country, he was 23, 24 years old at the time. there was a lot in the air. in february, 1960, students in greensboro, north carolina had started this new tactic, sitting in at segregated lunch towers. that tactic moved from greensboro north carolina to spread all over the south by august 1960 it had spread to jacksonville, florida. the hold of fulton yates. the local naacp in 1960 had a youth council? the president of the youth council was all of 16 years old. it was a high school student named rodney hearst, the vice president of the naacp youth council in jacksonville was this recently discharged, hero airmen. i'll tinny eight. and under their leadership, the high school kid and discharged

hero, the naacp youth council in jacksonville, florida. decided in 1960. august 1960. august 16th to be specific that they too would have segregated lunch sedans. they would have black people say that the white lunch counters and segregated florida. the first one was on the 13th. they were buried it, attacked, the lunch counters were closed down in the middle of the day rather than serve those young people. the lights were turned off. the kids, nevertheless decided that they would keep doing it. and they would expanded to include all the counties in downtown jacksonville. the first one had been on august 13th. by august 16th, they have not just the resistance of attacks but in the moment they had an organized resistance. the white citizens council in jacksonville convened a meeting august 16th in which they

pledge that they were going to stop these kids stop. these young people from what they were doing at all costs. by august 24th, not yet two weeks into this process. the local ku klux klan held its own meeting. the plan not just resistance, but a violent counter attack. to stop these kids. and we know this. there is documentary proof of it because the local clan in jacksonville at the town, included one guy who had volunteered to be an fbi informant inside the klan. and he gave the minutes of the meeting from august 14th, 1960, to the fbi. the plan to attack these young people from the fbi. they alerted the sheriff's office that the local clan was planning an attack. local law enforcement knew the planet attack. they knew that there would be hundreds of white men downtown

into jacksonville the following saturday, august 27th. whereupon they would've stashed baseball bats and ax handles. to use as their weapons. the informant said that the cohen's initial plan had been theatrical. they had planned to have a white woman for tend to have been attacked by young, black men who are trying to desegregate the lunch counters. they said that the plan was to, the informant said that the plan was to get this woman near to where the sudden demonstration was happening. and then she would collapse. and say that she had been attacked and that's why she had collapsed. and they thought that that would give the clansmen all the cover that they need to open up the gates of hell in downtown jacksonville. in the end though that was their plan. they decided they did not need the pretext of the women pretending to be attacked. the women attending to collapse. the clansmen stashed back sandals and baseball bats in the bushes in downtown

jacksonville park. they went to retrieve them from that park. they handed out more of them from vehicle. some sort of enter track. and then these clansmen, something like 200 of them just murat it into downtown jacksonville. and they of sensibly were targeting the young people. the naacp youth council that had been carrying out the non violent civil disobedience at the lunch counters. but it turns out the klan couldn't contain themselves and it turned into just a free-for-all. and yes, the naacp youth council was set upon. second class, alton yates was cracked across the skull. but they also went after anybody who was black. in downtown jacksonville that they. including women, and kids, and men who had nothing to do with the demonstration at all. we're just passersby. this photo appeared in life magazine at the time.

bloodied and dazed, he actually was not an activist. he had not been part of the lunch counter sedans at all. his name was charlie griffin. he was just a high school junior. just a bystander. but they went after him to. and with images like this coming out of jacksonville. you can see why this explosion of racist violence on august 27th in jacksonville, florida. 1960. if you could see why it got national news. if youit ended, up this voghelld life magazine. it also ended up in lifetimes. injured, as white clans clashed with [bleep]. you know where it didn't end up on the wet front page? in the newspaper, in the white part of florida. it didn't cover the sedans that white counters at all.

and when it came to the race riot on august 27th, they buried coverage of that on page 15 at the paper. which is all the more amazing when you consider that after the initial frenzied attack, hundreds of white men running through the downtown, chasing people down and beating them with axe handles. after that initial frenzied attack, the writing in jacksonville actually continued for two more nights. the florida times union, the paper, the wreck paper, they did not seem to mention. it was just a hurricane of violence. in the end, the kids, the young people organized the protests over the lunch counters. they won. they started those protests, like i said august 1960. by the spring of 1961, jacksonville had quietly integrated its downtown lunch counters. and, it took longer, but the

florida times union newspaper in recent years has tried to make up for the dismal role that it played in these events. they have since devoted serious coverage to the annual anniversary of what has become known as ax handle sandra day. such a dramatic name but they did stockpile and hand out axe handles and use them in an orange-y of white violence against any black person that they could find. in jacksonville that day in that night and the night after. ax handle saturday. this weekend, on saturday and watching ten, the sea. there was a big commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. 60 years since a quarter million americans came to washington to protest peacefully for civil rights. march on washington is one of the red letter, most important days in american history. a moral apex moment for this

country. that still would be remembered as such even if it hadn't also provided the setting for one of the most important and beloved speeches. in the modern world. the i have a dream speech from martin luther king. as the 60th anniversary of the march on washington celebrated this weekend, and today in washington, in jacksonville this weekend they were also marking the anniversary of ax handle saturday. and both of those anniversaries coincided with today's news. with a young white man with swastikas etched on his ar-15. heading into a black neighborhood dollars store in jacksonville, florida. and opening fire. at least according to one local official the young man told white people they should leave the store that he was about to show it up. and then they kept shooting specifically at black people. he killed two young african american men and women.

police say that he then shot himself. local authorities announced just tonight that they are finishing up going through the various racist manifesto that he left behind so that they can get those released to the public in the interest of transparency. do we really need those released to the public? i do not know. we will get some expert help on that important question in just a moment. but they did already give us the photos of the swastikas used to decorate the gun that he used to go kill black people. sharon, let's keep going. i'm not sure how much more eliminating they would find at the very end of this short -- but like i said we will get some expert help on that in just a moment. in general i feel like it's always better to know than to not know. especially given how much we are prone to forget.

in 2020 for example. the republican national committee had to scramble a bit when they forgot to notice that they had picked ax handle saturday. as a great day for donald trump to go to jacksonville florida to accept the republican party's nomination for president. and what better way to commemorate 60 years since a bloody or g of racial violence and to go right there to that site and say you are happy to accept the nomination for president. we are prone to forget. this weekend, it's the st. paul church in jacksonville held a vigil for this victims recent mass shooting of a man with swastikas on this gun. i should tell you that's the same congregation, the same congregation that gave shelter to black men and women and kids who are haunted by the ax handle wielding mobs this weekend in jacksonville in 1960. the same weekend neo-nazis

spread anti-semitic flyers attacking jews again, in georgia, also this weekend neo-nazi group turned out in a show of force in massachusetts to menace and intimidate immigrant families living there. or a week out from a man with a history of far-right postings on social media. shooting and killing a woman in san bernardino county, california. because she flew up pride flag outside of her store. this follows neo-nazi cds, randomly being mailed out to people all over montana. and other neo-nazi groups demonstrating at the state capital in augusta, maine. and jacksonville itself they have been played over the past year by neo-nazi groups, using laser projectors to project swastikas and other naughty imagery. and quotes until downtown buildings in the jacksonville, skyline. and on to the jacksonville stadium. or still today, watching the

unfurling scream of bomb threats to oklahoma elementary schools. after the far-right education commissioner in oklahoma decided that he would amplify extreme right attacks on an oklahoma elementary school librarian. which has resulted now in days and days and days of death threats and bomb threats targeting oklahoma elementary schools. headline in the tulsa world, more school of palm three keep administrators busy, and parents worried. and sometimes there are law enforcement consequences for these things. this week we're gonna see four straight days of sentencing's for members of pro trump, armed, right-wing, paramilitary groups. whose members have been convicted of seditious conspiracy against the u.s. government. those sentencings will start tomorrow, and federal court in washington, and continue all week. but even as we have all the sentencing starting tomorrow, today the georgia bureau of

investigation. which is the georgia state version of the fbi, they have to send a message to all state lawmakers and georgia. asking lawmakers to please report on the threats that they receive. all concerning interactions with members of the public. please report those lot enforcement because of a heightened threat environment. for politicians in georgia. because of course. there's a lot going on, and what accounts for the normal news right now. what accounts foin georgia, in e in which former president trump, an 18 codefendants are charged with engaging in a criminal racketeering enterprise aimed at derailing the transfer of power. and keep trump in office, despite losing the election. today, interestingly, we have a mini trial of some of the claims that are at issue in the indictment. it wasn't exactly a dry run, because, what happened today is potentially a consequential thing in itself.

but today in georgia, for every once in a surprise. we have chief of staff, mark meadows, and georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, and other witnesses all testifying. in an all-day hearing. that did seem like a mini version of the georgia trial. they had a lot of the merits of that case. this today was all part of an effort to take that georgia case out of georgia state court. have it heard in federal court instead, we will talk more about what that means. coming up this hour on what we've learned from that sort of mini trial in court today. we also got word today from the federal judge who was hearing trump's january 6th federal case. in washington, d.c., we heard from her today that she wants jury selection to started that trial. the first week of march. that date is very interesting. it's also very soon, we also have in today's proceedings a window. and how the federal judge is gonna conduct this case. how she's going to run that courtroom. she had, for example, a surprising and very specific warning for trump's defense

team. that we're gonna get some expert help on tonight. over the course of this hour. there's a lot going on. but because we are prone to forget, i think it's also important to not lose sight of the environment in which all of this news is happening. this morning, heading into what we knew would be too big, important court hearings on these trump cases today. in federal court in georgia, in federal court in d.c.. report, allen foyer, wrote a scene setting piece about the pro hearings today. from the new york times, for the morning paper this morning. reminding us of where this may be heading. he said towards the end of his article this morning, quote, the timetable from mr. trump's four trials have taken an outsized importance. not only because there were so many of, them but also because they were unfolding against trump's crowded cabinet are. as the candidate leading the field for the republican party's 2024 presidential nomination. trump has made no secret in private conversation with his

aides. of his desire to solve his jumble of legal problems by winning the election. quote, if i'll there of the two federal charges that he's confronting are delayed on till the election, and he prevails in the election, he could seek to pardon himself after taking office. or have his attorney general dismissed the matters altogether. and i know that learning that trump has been saying that privately to his staffers is not shocking news, per se, we know that that was probably what he was planning. probably what he was thinking. but, per the new york times it does seem significant that that is what he is now telling people. that is what he is telling people that he is going to do. he will solve his jumble of legal problems by winning the election. and whatever you think about that, that is how he is thinking about that. what does that say about the election for all of the rest of

us? it means in his own mind and. those of his campaign, and his supporters presumably. these are the stakes. and again whatever you think about that as a legal strategy, for trump, that is how he is thinking about the election. and that is how he is going to be talking to his supporters and his aides in this campaign about the stakes of the election. it means one of two things, if this is the way that he's gonna approach it. either, he loses the election and he goes to prison, or he wins the election, he doesn't go to prison, and is that for life? that he gets to be president, but we keep having more elections or no? if every election is a new opportunity for him to go to prison do you think he allows us to have new elections? if those are the stakes, of winning the election is his plan to stay out of prison, what happens in that election if and when he does not win it? does that election and with a

grateful concession to a fair and square reelected president biden? and trump and his supporters say the stakes as losing and going to prison or winning and being president and probably president for life, how should we expect that he and the republican party, and the republican officials in swing states are going to handle the conduct of that election that trump may very well lose? because we are frontier get, we have to say out loud that we would be remiss. we will be willfully naive to ask that question as if our politics exists in a vacuum. somewhere outside of the restaurant is. as of the politics pages are totally different than the crime pages. as if we are not in a moment where far-right politics is coinciding with far-right violence. with regular shows of force from paramilitary extreme right groups, and with acts of violence from people who are

explicitly, and it immediately, motivated by far-right elimination as political ideas. we are prone to forgets but we do not have to forget. so what should we now? what can we? now about what happens in the far-right politics. when it appears to be in excess with far-right violence. that right now is just pinging off the charts. joining us now is one of the nation's leading researchers on far-right extremism, and right power movements. catherine is a professor at the university. she's also an author in the seminal work in this field, bring it home. the far-right movement impaired military america. i appreciate you being with us tonight, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> one of the reasons i want to talk to you tonight is because of the jacksonville authority, jacksonville sheriff saying tonight that they are pretty

sure that they are going to release the racist manifesto's from this shooter in jacksonville this weekend. they say they want to do that in the interest of transparency. as someone who is that these things for a long time. what do you make of that decision? what do you think that the impact is positive or mandate of, making the manifesto see the light of day? >> manifestos are tricky documents. because on one hand, they are deeply coated. they are intended to impart information on future government, of target selection, the instant outs of how to carry out a similar attack. so we see these in the hands of future attackers. that is a huge problem, and authorities are absolutely right to be cautious and how they circulate. the trick is that without the manifesto people who study white power violence. military grade violence are really working with a much smaller amount of information

so right now where i had to say that this is a clear incidents of white power a gun violence. and basing that on the choice of the target. and this world messages on the barrel of the gun. these are a clear reference to the shooting and they are reminiscent of what we saw in that attack but without the manifesto. we are just working with a lot less information. i tend to think that we might easily release the manifestos to experts who can analyze them and decode without circulating them publicly and getting the best of both options. >> the jacksonville sheriff has said publicly that he does not think the shooter was part of a larger grouping that he acted alone and as you mentioned obviously there is a lot that we still do not know here but i wanted to ask you about this loan wolf idea because you've written a lot about this and i feel like your take on this is important for people to absorb out a popular level. if the student gets a spouse

wipe premises elasticity. you explain why it might be dangerous to dismiss that as a lone wolf event based on the fact that he acted as a single person when he went out and shot? >> absolutely and this is why we need the manifesto because when we consume stories about why prior violence as single events in the lone wolf attack we are consuming them as if they are existing without connection to each other and without an ideological basis of this is how we get stories about jacksonville as something separate from christchurch and pittsburgh and buffalo and charleston. many of these attacks have not only shared characteristics in the communities that are impacted but they're all carried out by white power perpetrators who are united through social ties. they are united ideologically. they share information about weapons and tactics and strategies. and they're all working for the same purpose which by the way is not limited only to mass

attacks as the strategy but also exists in precisely this landscape that you have just outlined where it is running into our national politics. it should be discussed in the same breath not only as other but also in the same breath as the other sort of pings of activity that you have outlined and one way to think about this is that although the scheduling of the ax handle saturday morning for the trump campaign might have been erroneous we have many other incidents where trump's open embrace of this movement has not been erroneous and i could think for instance of the press conference he scheduled in waco this spring to announces renewed campaign for 2024. waco, to many people, may simply signify the siege and sort of general anti federal government sentiment that people take from that but a

white power activists? waco is a direct reference to the oklahoma city bombing. it is a call to further violence. so we can have a discussion about whether or not they meant it this. way but there is plenty of information. plenty of historical precedent. plenty of expert analysis that can tell us what this move perceives. and all signs point to increasing acts of violence. >> kathleen blue, associate professor of history at northwestern. author of bringing the war home, the white power movement and paramilitary america. professor i really appreciate you being here tonight it's always to talk about something dark. but you always bring some light to the subject. thank you. >> thank you. >> we've got much more ahead here tonight. do stay with us. us. a quick shave. quick shave? respect the process! it ain't my dad's razor, dad, it's from gillettelabs. gillette...labs? gillette's ultimate shaving experience. this green bar releases trapped hairs from my face. gamechanga!

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america versus donald j trump. counsel, please approach the electorate and state your appearance for the record. miss casten, the prosecutor, good morning your honor. molly casten for the united states, along with thomas would head. the judge, good morning. the defense lawyer, good morning your honor, john laurel on behalf of president trump. with me, is my partner greg singer, and tom gladu. notice the appearance as well. as co-counsel for trump as well. >> the judge, good morning for. everyone we are here for a hearing regarding the parties proposed trial dates. this was the hearing for today. in federal court, in d.c.. to set a date for the trial of donald trump in one of the for criminal trials that he is currently facing. this is the case about him trying to falsify the election results. it is a federal case about that. what this means in practical terms, is that this hearing today was basically the opportunity for trump's lawyers to defend their argument that they have already made to the court in print. that trump's trial, his federal

trial for trying to overturn the election results shouldn't start for another two and a half years. she didn't start until 2026. today was the hearing, where they were going to defend that argument. today, judge tanya chutkan, federal judge in d.c.. made clear that they are not going to get their 2026 which. how she got that was kind of amazing. the judge, quote, now i want to note here that setting a trial date does not depend, and should not depend, on the defendants personal and professional obligations. mr. trump, like any defendant, will have to make the trial date work regardless of his schedule. if this case, for example, involved a professional athlete. it would be inappropriate for me to schedule a trial date to accommodate her schedule. the same is true here. among other things, the public has an interest in the fair and timely administration of justice. as well as a reducing that defendant opportunity to commit crimes while on pretrial release. and preventing extended pre trial delay. from impairing the deterrent

effect of punishment. prosecutors then tried to bolster that point from the judge, miss casten, the prosecutor says quote, the defendant. formerly the senior most official in our federal government is accused of historic crimes. attempted to overturn the presidential election. disenfranchise americans, and disrupt the peaceful transfer. there is an incredibly strong peaceful interest, and the juries prompting consideration of those claims and open courts. also a strong public interest, and a fair trial. which means we need to proceed to trial as soon as the defense can be ready. reasonably, because on the near daily basis. the defense posts on social media about this case. he has publicly disparaged witnesses, he's attacked the integrity of courts, and the citizens of the district of columbia that make of the jury pool. and this prejudices the jury pool. and your honor, we need to find a trial date web?

well, as soon as the defense can be reasonably ready. so the judge saying, listen, the public has an interest in a speedy trial here. the prosecutor saying, oh yes they do. when the judge though, attempts to have a discussion about what would be a reasonable amount of time for trump's defense lawyers to go through all the evidence, that was a very heated portion of today's hearing. the judge found herself repeatedly instructing trump's lawyer, basically, to calm down. quote, mr. laura, defense council. this is a shelf or a show trial, not a speedy trial. and his address that we can go to trial in four months is not only absurd, but violation of the law to do justice. and let me just go through this organized material. and then the judge interrupts. the judge, okay. let's take the temperature down for a moment here. trump's lawyer goes on. mr. laurel, quote, for the government to suggest that i can do that in four months is

an outrage justice. that not once had they talked about justice of this case, not once. so this is what i have to do. now they can give make key documents, that is very nice of them, that is very kind of them. i would like to know one defense lawyer in the united states that is going to rely on a government proposal for key documents. the judge, mr. laura, as i said, let's take the temperature down. and the end, judge chutkan scheduled the trial for march 4th. not a 2026, but of next year. the judge says quote, the defense giving rise to this case occurred to the end of 2020 and, the beginning of 2021. to propose trying this case over five years later risked the real danger that witnesses become unavailable, or the memories may fade. and while mr. trump has a right to time to prepare. the public has a right to a prompt an official resolution of this matter. this timeline does not move the case forward with the haste of

the mob. the trial will start three years, one month, and 27 days after the events of january the 6th, 2021. so march 4th, the election begins. here is one of the things judge chutkan said today that is worth noting. and we're having some advice about. the judge said today, quote, i realize that mr. trump's criminal case in new york is scheduled for trial on march 25th. i did speak briefly with judge marchand, they are judged, to let him know i was considering a date that might overlap with his trial. so she's explaining that she decides why she is taking the state. noting that it is up against the united states. but she says, that she has spoken to the judge. interest-ing, that trump has many trials coming up in the air. there's that one in new york, on charges. there's the trial in florida. and prosecutors in those various cases, may not

themselves be talking to each other. but the judges, apparently, are talking to each other. judge chutkan saying in open court today that she has spoken to the judge, for example, in trump's new york case. to give him a heads up. to help the conflict between at least those two trials. while that might seem common sense. that is the first time we have seen anyone, in any position of authority, playing the role of air traffic controllers for all of these trials that are all going to be trying to land in the same. here. and, that have been on the day when we got a surprise preview of what is gonna happen in the georgia trial. thanks to a surprise courtroom appearance from trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows. lots happened today. we've got chuck rosenberg to help us understand what it all means. he's here next. stay with us! h us e moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day

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donald trump's white house chief of staff testified in detail for five hours in court about the alleged blood to overturn the election. the plot at the center of two criminal trials that president trump is currently facing. along with trump, white house chief of staff mark meadows, one of the 19 people that have been indicted on rico charges in fulton georgia. have been indicted today not in the fulton courthouse. but in the federal court in atlanta. that's because he's asking the federal court to pluck the trial out of the state court in georgia, and hold it in federal court instead. why does he want that?

well. all of that 19 georgia codefendants including trump would probably prefer having their case go before a federal jury. drawn by the whole district of georgia. they prefer that to going before a state jury that would be drawn just from willow fulton county. but how likely is it that meadows will get his wish here? how did he do in his five hours on the stand today? if he does succeed. if he does get his case moved out of state court and into federal court with that mean that the whole georgia case. the whole rico case would all go to federal court? and what it just be meadows? how might the back and forth in georgia over this affect what happens in d.c. where trump just got a court date from march 4th of next year today? also what gets decided next? how is this all going to go? notice chuck rosenberg? former attorney and thanks for

being here tonight. >> my thanks rachel. >> how do we know how well meadows did today? how get his cases that his trial should be moved to federal court? >> it is the three part supreme court test that is important. that i want to talk to you about. in order to get plucked out of state court as you described, he would have to so that he was a federal official. he was, that part is easy. that he was acting within the scope of his federal authority. that part is hard. and the third piece rachel, that he would have a federal defense of the case if it were moved from state to federal court. and at least for the state of the proceeding. its focus on number two. is he acting within the scope of his federal authority. i think that that is a hard thing for him to show. chiefs of staff do lots of things. and the chief of staff to a prison of course does lots of things. but this was a political effort

to thwart f fair and free election. and if mr. meadows is going to get tripped up over everything. this notion that he was acting within the scope of this federal authority. so he has a plausible claim. not a frivolous claim. but i think that the judge is going to be skeptical that he mates that second proud. to show that he was acting in the scope of his federal authority. >> chuck why is it that every smart lawyer in the country. looking at the news today. said that it was shocking that mark meadows decided to take the stand and testify. let alone for five hours in this hearing? >> simply because he did not have to. inside he had to meet the burden of proof. and it was inside there today that he was calling on affidavits. but remember he is a defendant in the criminal case. so anything he says can be used against him in that case. that is pretty treacherous.

i mean it's one thing for him to answer questions from his own attorneys. that could be scripted. that could be prepped. that could be tested. it's another thing for him to answer questions on cross examination. which is precisely what happened. so if prosecutors got something valuable from his testimony today. they could use that against him in a criminal trial. that is what is surprising. that he took the stand at all when he actually did not have to. >> the hearing today did not end with the judge rolling. the judge has to decide whether the case will be moved to federal court. which is what the case is seeking. you will get off and -- does that mean ultimately at the end of the day the whole case is gonna get moved to federal court? that all the other defendants will benefit in the same way that he is trying to hear. >> great question. i don't think you have enough time in the show for me to explain all of the possibilities rachel.

but there is two answers. yes and no. there is one school of thought that said the other 18 defendants go if mr. meadows goes. if one goes they all go. to put it simply. there is another school of thought and i think that this is probably more likely. that you had determine what happens to each defendant on his or her own own merits. remember some of them are not even federal official. some of them would not have any plausible, colorable, federal defense and federal courts. it makes more sense to me that you would determine each one on his or her own merits. >> that seems fair. a random state senator or a publicist for a rapper. at least at this point in our country's history does not count as a federal official. chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney. former fbi official. clarion is always. chuck thank you so much. >> thank you rachel. >> we will be right back. stay with us. with us

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were going to be sentenced. they were both convicted of seditious conspiracy. the department of justice is making 23 years and 27 years for their roles in trying to overthrow the u.s. government and keep donald trump in power. two other proud boys convicted of seditious conspiracy will face sentencing on thursday. and another proud boys will face sentencing on friday. this is all happening over the course of this week. starting tomorrow we are about to see the rails sharp end of the stick. in terms of what the legal system can bring to bear against people who tried to overthrow the government and are convicted for doing so. these guys are looking at potentially decades in prison. and we are about to learn if they will get it. you can buy the defendants another january 6th related cases are going to be watching. so of course what we.

>> >> one last bit of news tonight. i hope you forgive me but it's my own news. i one book coming up. it's called prequel, an american fight against fascism. timely. comes out before october 27th. you can preview it now if you once. but the news i have tonight. i have this to share and i do. i am going to do a book tour for prequel, i travel around the country, and you can come see me if he would like to. and then start october 15th in philadelphia. then i'm gonna go to new york, d.c., chicago, atlanta, some francisco. l.a., seattle, boulder, tulsa,

and what to do a final stop in western massachusetts. but then i've got another couple of events in new york. a live taking with chris hayes for his podcast. why is this happening. that's gonna be fun. november 12 the new york city. then on december 13th i am going to sit down with the amazing jelani at the 92nd street. why in new york. a big long book tour. a little break. and then a couple new york events. a bunch of stuff happening if you would like to come to one of the book tour stops you can. just go to msnbc.com slash prequel. again the book is called prequel. there's a link right below me on your screen. you can go there and get. tickets come see me on the book tour. yeah. that does it for us for now. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. >> rachel i know i speak for about half 1 million people when they say i was just listening intently for the word boston. and i did not hear it.