us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. what i'm hopeful for is there is some way that we can find some kind of an agreement to look at this a little bit more fully. mr. secretary, i can tell you, you said there were only two dead people who would vote. i can promise you there are more than that. >> that is mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff, making a brief appearance on the infamous "find the votes call" with georgia's secretary of state on january 2nd, 2021. that exchange was part of his legal team's defense yesterday, as meadows spent five hours on the witness stand. we'll get expert legal analysis on that hearing and on the trial date set now for the former president in the federal election interference case, which could come the day before super tuesday. plus, president biden is clearing the way for a major federal response in florida ahead of hurricane idalia's

expected land fall. we'll have the latest forecast for that storm which is projecting to be a big one. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, august 29th. i'm willie geist. we have the host of "way too early" and bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. nbc's ken dilanian and former analyst lisa rubin. good morning to you all. let's dive right now as we begin with a start date now set for donald trump's federal election interference trial. district court judge tanya chutkan ordered jury selection to begin on march 4th of next year. that's just one day before super tuesday. prosecutors had asked for the trial to begin in early january of next year, while trump's lawyers proposed it begin in april of 2026. yesterday, judge chutkan said neither of those dates were acceptable, but, quote, this case is not going to trial in 2026. that decision was met with pushback inside the courtroom

from trump attorney john lauro, who was cautioned twice by the judge to turn down the temperature when he was speaking. lauro claimed it was the violation of the oath to do justice that the former president be tried so soon, arguing he would not have time to prepare his client's defense. judge chutkan dismissed the concerns, noting that trump has been aware since last year that he was the focus of jack smith's investigation and could have been preparing his defense during that time. as for when the date falls on the political calendar, the judge said, quote, setting a trial date does not depend and should not depend on a defendant's personal and professional obligations. mr. trump, like any defendant, will have to make the trial date work regardless of his schedule, end quote. judge chutkan did note there is a strong public interest in the case being resolved sooner rather than later, and the quicker it goes to trial, the more it reduces, quote, a defendant's opportunity to commit crimes while on pretrial release. trump was not present at

yesterday's hearing, but he was quick to respond, as you can imagine, on social media. in one post, he wrote, quote, trump-hating judge, blastering her for scheduling the trial a day before super tuesday. he claimed he'd appeal judge chutkan's decision, something he does not have the power to do. lisa, i'll start with you. on the date of march 4th, ambitious compared certainly to what the trump team wanted, which was a kind of outrageous demand to push it into 2026. a little bit later than what jack smith wanted but not a whole lot later. >> not a whole lot later. but reasonable, willie. i think one of the reasons it is reasonable is for the ways in which judge chutkan was discussing with john lauro yesterday. the fact these 12.8 million pages of discovery about which he made a whole lot weren't actually 12.8 million pages of discovery. she noted for him how much of that is duplicative, how much of that is already in the public domain, and how much of it they've already had in their possession and had an opportunity to review for

months. lauro just wouldn't concede any of that. i think they really lost her by refusing to engage with her on terms she found reasonable. >> ken, you were at the hearing yesterday. what was the tenor? just reading through it, it certainly looked like there was a lot of back and forth between judge chutkan amonishing lauro at several moments in the hearing. what was it like in there? >> so, willie, full disclosure, i was actually standing outside doing live shots for msnbc, but i was reading word for word as our colleagues inside were typing what she was saying into the google doc that i was looking at. i was really wishing we could all watch it on television because it was a remarkable hearing. the sort of reality distortion field of the trump defense in this case, you know, kind of came crashing on the shoals of this hard-nose judge who wasn't taking any nonsense. she made a number of statements that would have been beneficial for the public at large to watch her say, for example, that

mr. trump is going to be treated with no more or no less deaf deference than any other defendant. like any other defendant, he has to adjust his schedule, whatever it is, running for president or running a large corporation, to the necessities of the criminal trial. she's in charge of that. and she -- as lisa said, i mean, it seemed like a huge miscalculation by john lauro and the trump defense, because she begged them, begged them to come up with a more reasonable alternative than april 2026, which she immediately said at the start of the hearing was a nonstarter, wasn't going to happen. she rejected their notion that, you know, this massive amount of discovery made it impossible for them to get ready for trial in even a year. they didn't give her an alternative, so she went with a date that was two months removed from the january date that the special counsel's office had proposed. there was also some really interesting -- i want to read this one thing from the special counsel, molly gaston, the

attorney. just a really interesting appeal to how important it is to get this case to trial. she said that the defendant is accused of historic crimes. this is molly gaston from the special counsel's office. and there is an incredibly strong public interest in a jury's prompt consideration of those claims in open court. judge tanya chutkan agreed. she said the right to a speedy trial wasn't just a defendant's right, it was the public's right. she agreed the public had a right to hear this case before the november 2024 election. look, nobody thinks this march 4th date is firm. there are at will of reasons to think it'll slip. lauro made clear he is going to file a motion to argue that donald trump is immune because he was president from these criminal charges, and that's something that could go all the way to the supreme court while this trial is pending. this may slip, but the bottom line is judge chutkan clearly wants to get this trial moving sometime next year before the election. that's hugely significant. >> lisa, ken led me to my next

question to you. in your experience as a litigator, is this gait date negotiable? can it move? >> march 4th is the date she is aiming for. it is not negotiable in the sense that they can't talk about it next week, but through motion practice or appeals, could we be looking at a date further down the road? absolutely. but is it her intent to try this case before the election, and will she do that? i believe she will. >> john, obviously, trump and his team have lumped all these investigations together as, quote, election interference. in other words, suggesting that this justice department is trying to prevent him from becoming president of the united states again. does this add a little fuel to his case, if unfairly, that the day before super tuesday, a day when he likely would be crisscrossing the country, going to key states and campaigning, that he is going to be sitting in a courtroom, does the eve of

super tuesday help him make that case? >> that is the political argument they are taking. trump said that on truth social, that the timing can't be a coincidence. basically, they picked the day before super tuesday to hurt my chances for becoming the republican nominee and, therefore, to become the president again. we don't have any reason to believe that is factored into the judge's decision, but that is what trump is saying and how he is whipping up support from his supporters. that's what he's been saying from day one, "the justice department belongs to my rival, president biden, and he's trying to unseat me." that's his argument. it underscores, as we look at the calendar, the challenge that lies in front of him. there are all these dates. we know alvin bragg in new york signalled he'd step aside and play deferential to the federal case, that that should go first. but as you see here, the iowa caucus in january. we have dates, of course, other

votes in february and march. now, he's going to be shuttling from courtroom to courtroom while also trying to mix in political rallies. certainly obstacles no presidential campaign has ever faced before. >> georgia will be sprinkled in there, as well, once they decide on something. meanwhile, former white house chief of staff mark meadows took the witness stand for five hours yesterday in the first hearing for his motion to move that fulton county election case to federal court. the bulk of the questioning surrounded what his official role as chief of staff entailed. meadows framed his actions in the aftermath of the election as part of his job as the former president's top aide. his legal team argued any action he took simply was connected to that role, including that infamous "find the votes" call we played for you a moment ago, when he was on with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. >> i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break.

look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. >> there it is on tape. fulton county district attorney fani willis and her office say meadows' actions were a violation of the hatch act, prohibiting government officials from using their official roles to influence an election. a lawyer for the d.a. pressed meadows about whether solely advancing the interest of the campaign would be outside the scope of his responsibilities. i would not agree with that, meadows said. raffensperger also testified for about an hour after being subpoenaed by the prosecution. there's not been a ruling as yet. the judge said meadows would need to be arraigned in the case as scheduled if there has not been a decision by then. that arraignment for meadows, donald trump and 17 others has

been scheduled for next wednesday, a week from tomorrow, september 6th. they're set to begin at 9:30 a.m. and run at 15-minute intervals. there's no word yet on whether those arraignments will be in-person or virtual. some kind of speed dating there, just getting them through, 15 minutes at a time, lisa rubin, to get them arraigned. let's go back to mark meadows. does he have a case that this should be moved to a federal court? >> he has more than a frivolous case but, i think ultimately, an un unsuccessful one. he was asked, "is there anything the president could have asked you to do that would have been beyond duties as white house chief of staff?" the only thing he came up with was trump asking him to speak at the rally. it is not that matter of law that speaking at a rally is the only thing he could do that would go beyond his federal duties. if it were, the hatch act would be a nullity. it's not whether or not he should be prosecuted for

violating the hatch act, it is whether or not mark meadows was acting within the scope of his federal duties. ultimately, as raffensperger and others testified yesterday, what he was doing was political in nature, not to fulfill a federal function of ensuring free and fair elections, as meadows tried to insinuate yesterday. >> members of the trump white house highlighted the hatch act like it was their job, more often than not, from white house podiums. how surprising was it that meadows took the stand yesterday? that really took a lot of people off guard. >> shocking. because as he said himself during his testimony, "i'm in enough trouble as it is." he talked about his faulty memory. look, his lawyers must have felt like -- look, he has a relaxed demeanor. we've seen it on television. his lawyers must have felt like he would be a good witness and he was, you know, sort of

conversant enough with the facts not to trip himself up. this whole question of whether or not he was acting politically, it is not just significant for the purposes of whether this case gets moved to federal court which, by the way, it wouldn't derail the case. it'd be the state charges, same prosecutors. only thing that would change is maybe the jury pool. this also goes to the question of whether donald trump can assert he was acting as president and is, therefore, immune from the federal charges. you know, everybody knows in washington that the chief of staff, among all jobs in the white house, is the one that crosses the line between politics and policy. one day, the chief of staff is getting a high-level intelligence briefing. the next day, he is calling political operatives in minnesota to talk about a local issue. because that call was so blatantly political, donald trump wasn't asking about, you know, potential fraud and raising his concerns about the integrity of the election. he was asking about the votes he needed to win the election.

that puts this whole call and the other activities that meadows was engaging in squarely in the political realm. any reasonable person can see that. so it not only undercuts meadows' claim to remove the trial to federal court, it'll be an issue when donald trump comes to federal court and says, "i'm immune under the presidential immunity document because i was concerned there was fraud in the election." deeply concerning hearing yesterday. >> lisa, i'm sure people are wondering, if you are participating in an alleged conspiracy to overturn an election, why does it matter in what role you are acting? in other words, if you were acting as chief of staff or in a campaign role, you're still participating in an alleged conspiracy. what's the distinction there? >> i think the import of the question has to do with meadows' effort to remove it to federal court. it is a threshold question. if you are trying to, as a state criminal defendant, move a case to federal court on the grounds that you are a federal officer, which is what the statute

requires, you first have to show you were fulfilling a federal function, right? so it's not so much, is it relevant to the conspiracy. it's, is it relevant or can you prove it to get your case to federal court? but, of course, the reason meadows wants to be in federal court in the first place is so he can advance the argument ken was referring to, which is this presidential immunity question. he is arguing that because he was a federal officer acting as the direction of the president or in cahoots with the president, it'd be improper or unconstitutional for fani willis to prosecute him in state court. the constitution has supremacy and, therefore, he belongs in a federal court. that's a vehicle to get rid of the case entirely. >> let's go to the state of georgia as we bring in greg bluestein. mark meadows, the first time we've had a witness effectively sit and testify and we could hear so much of the evidence, really to see where he is and

what arguments he is going to make in this case. what'd you take away from that long day? >> yeah, it was the first big test of fani willis' case here in georgia. it also underscored the surprise testimony from mark meadows. underscored just how badly he wanted to win this motion. you know, legal experts did not expect mark meadows to take the stand, but it is important, as lisa mentioned. i mean, first of all, he can advance that argument that he was immune from prosecution pause he was acting under the color of a federal official. but beyond that, you know, it changes the jury pool. it means the jury pool is not just driven from fulton county, which joe biden won with 72% of the vote, but also from a broader pool of ten counties in the metro atlanta area. and for us viewers at home, likely, we will not be able to see the proceedings on tv like we would in fulton county court. >> greg, what did we learn from brad raffensperger yesterday? we sat for about an hour, the georgia secretary of state. he's been strong since day one on all of this, and we heard him

on january 2nd, 2021, on that call, saying that the illegal -- saying the election was fair, that we counted, we recounted and counted again, and joe biden won this state. what did we learn from his testimony yesterday, if anything? >> yeah, the secretary of state has said this over and over. he wrote a book about it, right? he actually wrote a book that annotated that entire phone call. the public didn't necessarily learn anything new, but now it's admitted in a court of law and can be used. his testimony can be used every single hearing going forward, every legal proceeding, every motion, every document that is filed in this case, him saying that he followed the law. he was not going to be coerced or intimidated or bullied by the former president and his top aides to find enough votes to reverse the election results. >> yeah, he is a powerful witness in all this. greg, with all this in mind, everything we've seen in the state of georgia, particularly in the last week, you at the ajc have some new polling out this morning showing how it may or may not be impacting donald trump. check this out.

donald trump among republican voters in the primary at 57%. his next challenger, ron desantis, 42 points back at 15%. everybody else registering in the low double digits. so this is sort of a reflection of what we have seen nationally, greg, which is that among primary voters anyway, not among the country necessarily, but among primary voters, republicans, this martyrdom that donald trump has professed seems to be working. >> yeah, it's surprising and it's not surprising. >> yeah. >> it reflects other polls throughout the nation. this is also in georgia. this is the scene of some of donald trump's most humiliating setbacks, not just in 2020 when he lost to joe biden here by fewer than 12,000 votes and became the first republican to lose the state of georgia in a presidential election since way back in 1992. also, in 2021, when senate candidates running on the maga brand lost to democrats, flipping control of the chamber. of course, in 2022, when his

hand-picked selection for the u.s. senate, herschel walker, went down in defeat to democrat raphael warnock. you know, this is a -- trump also has a 33-point lead in a hypothetical head-to-head matchup with ron desantis. it shows ron desantis is nowhere close to striking distance to donald trump in georgia. at the same time, what it doesn't show is where middle of the road georgia voters sit. this is likely republican voters, and we've seen a defection of a lot of the middle of the road, swing, independent voters that used to vote traditionally for republicans in georgia. in the trump era, they no longer are. that's the block of voters that could decide this election. >> senior white house officials and those as part of president biden's re-election campaign long said georgia would probably be the hardest state to keep in terms of a state he won in 2020, to win again this time around. they think it'd be even harder if it were not to be donald trump atop the ticket, greg. certainly, right now, all

indications are that it will be trump again as the republican nominee. so in that hypothetical, let's say those poll numbers hold and trump sweeps through georgia and he is the gop standard bearer again. what do you think then happens for, like, governor kemp and secretary of state raffensperger who have opposed trump every step of the way in the last two odd years. would they fall in line and be good republican soldiers again, or would they try to keep him, as best they can, at arm's distance? >> that's an important question. not only have they opposed donald trump and rejected his efforts to overturn the election, they also could be star witnesses in the trial that could happen as early as next year here in georgia. look, they've -- brian kemp, in particular, has said he will support whoever the nominee is. he's not said any kind words about donald trump, though. he even called him the loser of the debate last week because he refused to show up on stage. at the same time, i think he'll take the same stance he took with herschel walker.

he was not a huge fan of him either in the senate race last year. he stumped for him, just saying how important it is that republicans have a republican in the chamber, whether it be herschel walker or anyone else. he just wanted a republican in the chamber. i think he'll do the same thing next year, just railing about how bad he thinks joe biden's agenda is for georgians, rather than talking about donald trump himself. >> it is an amazing stance, isn't it, to rail against donald trump but say, "we stood in the door as donald trump tried to flip an election on us and, yet, we still in the end will support him." one more number from your poll that is fascinating to put up. as we let you go here, greg, it's the charges against trump in charge. if you put those top two lines together, 50% of people in the state of georgia -- this is primary republican voters -- so half of primary voters believe the charges are serious, somewhat serious. not too serious and not serious at all 44%. half are saying, yeah, what he

did is serious, but likely i'm going to vote for him anyway. >> exactly. we spent a chunk of our at the ajc calling poll respondents who said that. they are worried about these charges. they think he did wrong when he called raffensperger and urged him to find exactly the amount of votes to overturn the defeat. at the same time, they're willing to support donald trump in the primary. that is going to be the difference here in be georgia. >> "the atlanta journal constitution's" greg bluestein, always plugged in. great to talk to you. we appreciate it. ken, let's put the calendar back up. put yourself in the shoes of a trump attorney navigating this. we have the trials. mix in the e. jean carroll defamation suit. the pyramid scheme, civil action suit january of next year. we're waiting to see where georgia falls in terms of starting the trial there. first of all, how did the

prosecutors put the puzzle pieces together? on the other side of it, how do you navigate this as a defense? >> it's unimaginable, willie. actually, i don't know if the prosecutors are going to coordinate, but yesterday we got a hint that maybe the judges might coordinate. judge tanya chutkan said she'd been in touch with the judge in new york who scheduled a trial there for march. they were going to deconflict those potential dates. in terms of donald trump's legal team and trump himself and the mental resources they're going to have to devote to these various defenses, it's -- i mean, we've never been here before. four complex criminal trials potentially all unfolding over the next year. you know, there's a lot of bombast and hyperbole when trump's lawyers go into court saying how long this will take. in this respect, they are correct. they have their work cut out for them here. it's just -- the amount of work they have to do to get ready for

all four of these separate trials, plus the civil case you mentioned. there's some overlap between the legal teams, some people are different. it's just mind boggling. then you have donald trump who is going to be trying to run for president even as he is devoting some resources -- because a defendant has to be involved in his own defense. you know, there are certain things only the defendant knows. so we are in for a real show next year to see how this all plays out. you know, frankly, donald trump, from where i sit, doesn't appear to have enough lawyers and enough legal resources to really successfully defend all these cases in this compressed period. that's really part of the argument his lawyers were making. they've made it in both florida and in washington before these federal judges, that, "look, we need more time because we just need to get more legal resources onto this." he's at a real disadvantage here, and that's not something

to be taken lightly. >> lisa, if you look at what judge chutkan put down yesterday, which is march the 4th for a start date, what fani willis wants to do next year, they're all making clear, these are happening next year. despite the request from donald trump's team to push them to after the election. >> yeah. to ken's point, donald trump doesn't have enough legal resources right now, but partially that's because he keeps playing legal musical chairs. judge chutkan made it clear yesterday, the fact, mr. lauro, you're just coming onto this case doesn't mean donald trump hasn't been sitting with these allegations for a long time. i'm not going to allow this rotating cast of lawyers to be the occasion for delay here. i think you'll see that from the other judges, as well. the fact that he can't assemble a legal team is not the judge's problem. >> it's going to be quite a year or 18 months ahead. >> absolutely. >> lisa rubin, ken dilanian, we'll be talking to you quite a bit. thanks so much. the tropical system headed toward florida now a category 1 hurricane, upgraded this morning. idalia expected to intensify

rapidly through the gulf of mexico today and will make landfall on florida's gulf coast as early as tomorrow. 21 million people currently under tropical storm and hurricane watches along florida's west coast while high-risk areas are under mandatory evacuations this morning. the national weather service warning idalia could bring life-threatening storm surge and hurricane force winds as well as major flood risk in some areas. in response to the hurricane, president biden, florida governor ron desantis did speak yesterday. biden already approved an emergency declaration for the state, while fema has predeployed personnel and assets. desantis announced the state has prepared 200,000 gallons of pre-staged fuel to be made available once the storm works through. let's get to meteorologist angie lassman, tracking the storm. good morning. what's this path look like? >> good morning. this goes straight into florida. this is a dangerous and life-threatening situation that will evolve the next 24 hours basically. right now, hurricane idalia

coming in at category 1, 75 miles per hour. that barely puts it into hurricane status, but it is going to rapidly intensify as we get through the next 20ish hours before it makes landfall. we're talking it needs 35-mile-per-hour increase in the winds in order to be considered rapid intensification. it'll definitely get that. right now moving north at 14 miles per hour, that pace is going to pick up, as well. it is right now leaving us with some rain across parts of cuba and moving into parts of florida later today with the outer rain bands. check out all of these watches and warnings we already have up. tropical alerts include much of the state of florida, including a hurricane warning that goes around parts of the big bend, stretching down past tampa bay. that area looks like it is going to be the most impacted. let's talk about the impacts. we've got the track taking it into parts of the gulf of mexico which, by the way, are ridiculously warm. upper 80s for water temperatures there and not just at the surface level. this is deep into the water. as we see the mixing from the hurricane, it has plenty of

fuel, likely becoming a category 3. if it is a category 3 landfall in the area, it'll be the first time since 1950. people there may have never seen a system like this working on shore. it'll bring life-threatening storm surge. on top of that, heavy rainfall, strong winds, of course. the storm surge, though, willie, this is going to be something that i really want people to take seriously, especially if you're on the right side of that storm where it comes on shore. 8 to 12 feet. that is ground level up to 12 feet. we're talking a stop sign is 9 feet at most. really life-threatening situation that will unfold there. >> this is sizing up to be a major storm. aqua fence going up around tampa general hospital to protect the hospital so they can continue to operate. everybody should take this seriously. angie lassman, we'll be back to you throughout the morning. thanks so much. ahead on "morning joe," president biden denounces the racially motivated shooting at a florida dollar store. we'll show you the remarks and what we're learning about the gunman. plus, russian state media releases rare video of jailed

u.s. citizen paul whelan. we'll talk to senator chris coons about that and the effort to get whelan released. 2024 presidential candidate chris christie will be our guest with reaction to the date set for donald trump's federal election interference trial. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu.

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joining us now, former aide to the george w bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," jrue eugene robinson. you have a score to settle, you and lemire, softball? >> i was cheering on the team. my husband also played in the softball team. i think mike lupica might have been disappointed. >> this was the game last year that defines lupica's season, his year. >> he is the manager. >> yeah, it's a charity game. >> quite a coaching presence out there, third base. he's into it. >> last year, the writers squad, we had a remarkable, historic comeback victory. >> led by you. >> i may have played a significant role in that. >> yeah. >> this year, we fought, but our comeback bid fell just short. >> fair enough. >> yeah, but lupica is already working on next year's game. you should expect a phone call. we should use your bat. >> you'd be a good player. >> my phone is right here. give me a call. i can kick one deep. let's talk about some new

polling we're getting in about president biden, showing his age is a significant concern for voters ahead of the 2024 election. including among democrats, by the way. a new ap/norc poll shows more than three-quarters of americans think biden, who is 80, is too old to serve another serve. 77% of them. donald trump is just three years younger than biden but only 51% of americans say he is too old to be effective in a second term. broken down by party, 89% of republicans say biden is too told. 69% of democrats say he is too old. 74% of independents say the same. in contrast, only 28% of republicans say trump is too old, versus 71% of democrats and about half of all independents. eugene robinson, this is something the white house, the biden campaign, cannot avoid. it is a reality. it might be uncomfortable for some people to talk about. when you have private dinner parties, when you go out at the

ice cream place in the summer, people, even democrats who like joe biden and plan to support him, they do have concerns about his age. >> yes, they do. it's just a fact they have to deal with. i mean, the fact, also, is that those democrats, i think, are highly unlikely to say, okay, he is too old, i'll vote for donald trump. >> right. >> they're not going to do that. indeed, if it is a trump/biden rematch, i think it is very likely that the main question will be donald trump. it's a stark, you know, binary choice. do you want four more years of biden or four more years of trump? i think the biden camp is, you know, fairly confident on that score, that that's how it is going to come down. but it is a problem and it is ironic. he is only three years older than donald trump. he is visibly in better physical

shape than donald trump. you know, despite those figures from the georgia booking that have trump at 6'3", 215. i'm sorry, you know, that is -- that is a total fantasy. you know, you see biden riding on his bicycle and doing all this stuff and trump doing none of that. but none of that seems to stick. so this is just something that biden has to deal with. >> john, gene is right. ask democrats, seven out of ten say he is too vote. ask, are you going to vote for him? yeah, of course i'm voting for him. i'm not supporting donald trump. the question is, is it enough of a question for the independents, people in the middle, who was on the fence with it? >> i had this conversation with senior democrats in the last couple days, they acknowledge that as much as they don't like talking about it publicly, they understand it is a legitimate concern for voters. that said, they believe if it is a head-to-head, especially with

donald trump, that questions about the president's age will be outweighed by other matters. it simply won't be as important. now, they do think the calculation would change somewhat, elise, is somehow a republican not named donald trump ended up atop the ticket and the age gap wouldn't be three years but perhaps 30 years. right now, trump is far and away the favorite to be the republican standard bearer again next year. >> it really would just be almost a black swan event for someone other than donald trump to get the nomination at this time. however, if it were, say, nikki haley, who right now has enjoyed such a bump and is getting a real second look from a lot of big republican donors, if she got the nomination, i do think it would potentially be another story. the donald trump head-to-head, it is going to go back more to where is the economy right now? where is the economy going to be next october? is your life better under biden than it was under trump, and voting from there. but another -- if the

republicans could get their act together and viably support someone else, it could be a different game. >> you mentioned nikki haley. she's been saying explcitly that a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris, given the age of president biden. haley also continues to criticize ramaswamy, as she did at the debate. she didn't mention him by name in south carolina at a town hall but did refer to his comments during that debate. >> so when you have somebody on stage that's going to say, "i'm just going to let russia have this part of ukraine, and i'm going to tell them, you can't do anything with china going forward," that's just naive. it's completely naive. the other thing that bothers me is, it is completely

narcissistic to think that america doesn't need friends. we do need friends. we do need allies. we should never stop doing that. we have a front line of defense with ukraine because they are keeping putin from doing what he said, which is the next stop is poland and the baltics. that's a world war. that is what we're trying to prevent. >> meanwhile, ramaswamy released an outline of his foreign policy agenda in an op-ed for the american conservative. the biotech entrepreneur said his administration would end aid to ukraine and would not defend taiwan from a chinese invasion. after the united states, quote, achieves semiconductor independence. someone, elise, who worked in the foreign policy space, what is your reaction to both of those ideas? >> um, wow, just a lot of leaps and bounds there. semiconductor independence, how quickly is that going to be achieved, first of all? and the idea we can completely separate ourselves from ukraine and europe and overall security,

it does sound fantastical and a bit immature. but this is, you know, ramaswamy is speaking in the same mode of so many gop candidates, i'll just say donald trump, and oversimplifying, giving an easy sound bite for a hugely complex issue. he thinks he is going to reap benefits in the post-iraq war years, which the other candidates, i do look at their foreign policies, and they need to wise up a bit, too, and adjust to the realities that americans overall want to have a more restrained foreign policy. >> there are actually so few policy differences between the republicans running for president. it is interesting that ukraine is one that has emerged, where it is a divide. we have vice president pence or governor christie and a few others saying, we need to keep this arm going and arming kyiv against russia. others, including trump, ramaswamy and desantis, have said otherwise, that we should scale back. eugene robinson, as that plays out as the backdrop, i'm curious

what you think of the debate on the presidential level, how it may inform the debate coming up in congress in a few weeks now. the white house already submitted their proposal to the hill for ukraine funding. this is the first time they'll do so with the republicans in control of the house. we know there's some fringe republicans there who are very loud and very lockstep in opposition to any funding. with so many of these prominent national ones coming out in favor of at least curtailing it, how do you think that plays out on the hill? what do you think the white house will end up getting? >> you know, i think it complicates the administration's attempt to get this package through congress. i think it really does. it doesn't necessarily doom it. kevin mccarthy has, you know, kind of walked this tight rope, sort of paying lip service to his right while making clear that he is in favor of continued aid to ukraine.

basically, as a foreign policy traditionalist. but, you know, what is his caucus going to do? is it going to go along with him? he'll have more problems than he would have had if this were not the tenor of the debate the other night. it'll be fascinating. the other thing that will be fascinating to see in terms of the republican party is whether nikki haley actually does get a polling bump from that debate. because she came off as informed and reasonable and experienced. of course, the question is whether today's republican party wants informed, reasonable and experienced. right now, its looks like probably the party doesn't. but who knows? maybe she'll emerge as the anti-trump alternative in the

fullness of time. we'll see. >> what does a polling bump mean? down 38 points instead of 43? the margins are so wise. it is interesting to note, as nikki haley called ramaswamy naive in the clip and inexperienced, he is making a virtue of that, the fact he is a washington outsider. well, there was a clip on social media of a 2003 presidential town hall on msnbc's "hardball with chris matthews," with rev al sharpton, running for president, questioned by a young student about his experience. that student, vivek ramaswamy. >> let's get a question here. go ahead. >> reverend sharpton. i'm vivek. i want to ask you, last week on the show, we had senator kerry. before that, senator democratic why should i vote with the one

with the least political experience? >> you shouldn't. i have the most political experience. i got involved in the political movement when i was 12 years old. i've been involved in social policy for the last 30 years. don't confuse people that have a job with political experience. whoever the head of some local bureaucracy has a job in cambridge, that doesn't mean that they have political experience, and it doesn't mean they have experience to run the united states government. so i think that we confuse titleholders with political experience, as we have seen with the present occupant in the white house. george bush was a governor and clearly has shown he doesn't have political experience. >> that was 20 years ago, october of 2003. john, yes, fascinating it was vivek ramaswamy, but also rev on

his feet. that answer was amaze. >> so good. i heard from reverend sharpton this morning. he is aware of the clip. he says, as you'd expect, he has no memory of that exchange. he talked to voters every day on that trail. but it is a reminder of what impressive run he had in 2004 and how fast he has always been with answers, whether here on set or on the political stage or, of course, in the pulpit. >> he's only 68. he's young. >> get back in there. >> young yet. >> fit and ready. we'll call him and ask. >> sharpton in '28. up next, gene's column in response to the racially motivated attack in jacksonville, florida, as we get new details. we'll be right back.

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>> reporter: an alarming, too familiar scene. a college campus on lockdown after a deadly shooting. >> possible active shooter on campus. >> reporter: this time at university of north carolina chapel hill. >> i'm grieved to report that one of our faculty members was killed in this shooting. this loss is devastating, and the shooting damages the trust and safety that we so often take for granted in our campus community. >> reporter: it began with a school alert for an armed, dangerous person on or near campus. go inside now. avoid windows. just one week after classes started. >> has a 9 millimeter. possible asian male. >> reporter: heavily armed officers swarming the campus. students walking down the street with hands up. many posting pictures sheltering inside school buildings. >> immediately, we all just stayed hiding in the stalls, squatting on the toilets, just scared. we didn't know what was happening. >> it was terrifying. you know, you see that on your phone and you think it's one of those things. >> reporter: police putting out

this photo of what they called a person of interest. then what appeared to be an arrest shown on nbc station wral. >> now, they're leading the person around the vehicle in handcuffs. that's the person we saw sitting down on the street with his hands behind his back. getting into the back of that police car. >> reporter: just after 4:00, the campus giving the all clear. >> ali vitali reporting from chapel hill. as of yesterday, investigators have not publicly identified the suspect or the faculty member killed. police have not said if they knew each other. according to local news reports, the suspect is a doctoral student at the university. we'll have more as we get it. now, an update on the racially motivated attack in jacksonville, florida. saturday, a gunman shot and killed three black people at a dollar general store. police say he left a manifesto detailing his hatred for black people. yesterday, a planned event in the city to commemorate the 60th anniversary for the march of washington turned into a protest and a call to end white supremacy. some demonstrator condemned

governor ron desantis' so-called woke agenda, suggesting it is provoking fear and hate. president biden spoke during a white house event to mark the march on washington anniversary, calling on americans to do more to stop hate and criticizing lawmakers who push extremist policies. >> we can't let hate prevail. it's on the rise. it's not diminishing. silence, i believe, we've all said many times, silence is complicity. we're not going to remain silent. so we have to act against this hate and violence. there is a whole group of extreme people trying to erase history, trying to walk away from it. i mean, the idea that we're sitting here, i never thought that i'd be president, let alone be president and having the discussion on why books are being banned in american schools. >> the president at the white house yesterday. gene, your latest op-ed in "the washington post" is titled, "black people are killed for

being black again." gene writes, "while thousands gathered saturday on the national mall to mark the 60th anniversary march on washington, a racist white man killed african-americans for the unforgivable crime of being african-american. governor desantis said the right things, though awkwardly, but the crowd was right to boo him. he's crusaded against wokeness and has instituted a crime lum -- curriculum in schools to downplay african-americans' contributions. mass shootings will never end until the nation enacts sensible laws to get deadly weapons out of the hands of those who would use to kill. as you write, gene, this is the lethal combination we've seen way too often in the last several years.

explicit hatred and high-powered weapons. >> the explicit hatred is not new in this country. it's the same thing that happened last year in buffalo at the tops supermarket, where ten black people were killed for being black. it's the same thing that happened in 2015, mother emanuel church in south carolina, where people were killed for being black. the same thing that happened in 1955 in mississippi with emmett till. we're right around that anniversary. i mean, you know, what really got to me was the way that, in florida, in jacksonville, florida, in florida, we're talking about essentially whitewashing history. which governor desantis has been doing. until we acknowledge and know this history, the history of the

long jim crow period, the history of the violence that was committed during those decades against black people in this country, across this country, we're just not going to move forward. so it is shameful that there are efforts to, in effect, hide that history. then, of course, there is a separate issue of guns, which we talk about every time we have one of these shootings. you know, you get hoarse from making this point, but you have to keep making it over and over again. we're the only country that has more guns than people. we're the only advanced country that has these mass shootings. >> police in jacksonville say, in this case, the shooter bought two guns legally, passed the background checks, and everything went through quickly and easily. but, again, here we are. in this case, three innocent souls, one sitting in a car, one

walking into a dollar general store, and a 19-year-old working a job at a dollar store killed for it. "the washington post"'s eugene robinson, your post is up. appreciate it. good to see you. still ahead, president biden is signaling health care will be a part of his pitch. neera tanden joins us to talk about announcement of the lowering of prescription drugs. "morning joe" is coming right back. " is coming right back so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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i do think one challenge for him is to say, this is on my official capacity. if that were true, why was he circulating the white house advice? why wasn't doj involved? instead, mark recruited outside lawyers who he wanted to listen to. >> mark short, the former chief of staff for vice president mike pence, weighing in on testimony from mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff,

who spent hours on the witness stand yesterday in georgia. this comes as donald trump gets another court date added to his calendar. we'll go through the new development in the federal election interference case and see where it fits in with all the other ones. also ahead this hour, republican presidential candidate chris christie will be our guest. we'll talk to him about this latest news on donald trump and the campaign ahead. plus, some new reporting on pushback from some house republicans on an impeachment inquiry into president biden, the one speaker mccarthy has been floating quite a bit lately. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, august 29th. jonathan lemire, elise jordan still with us. joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. a judge has denied donald trump's bid to delay his federal election interference trial until after the 2024 election. correspondent blayne alexander has details. >> reporter: request denied. that's the ruling from a federal judge to former president trump seeking to delay the start of

his federal election interference trial until after the 2024 election. instead, judge chutkan has set a start date of march 4th. prosecutors had requested a january start date, but trumps start, saying they needed time to prepare. judge chutkan said mr. trump, like any defendant, has to make it work, regardless of his schedule. mr. trump blasted it as an attempt to undermine his presidential campaign, calling it election interference. it is yet another collision between the frontrunner's legal calendar and the height of the election season. it's a day before super tuesday and a week before his trial in manhattan, where a d.a. is accusing him of concealing hush money payments to a porn star. he's pleaded not guilty. may 20th, the special counsel's case on classified documents. mr. trump has also pleaded not

guilty. not yet on the calendar, the election interference case in fulton county, georgia, where his former chief of staff mark meadows testified about this call from then president trump to georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> reporter: meadows is pushing to move his case to federal court, which would mean jurors from outside atlanta, not just heavily democratic fulton county. all of it is spilling from the courtroom to the campaign trail, where the trump campaign says it's raised more than $7 million since his surrender last thursday, including selling campaign merchandise featuring mr. trump's mugshot. >> blayne alexander reporting there. let's bring in former u.s. attorney, senior fbi official, chuck rosenberg. chuck, good morning. great to see you. let's talk about that date. march the 4th, on the eve of

super tuesday, obviously a little later but not a lot later than jack smith was hoping for, and much, much earlier than trump's defense team had requested. what do you make of the march 4th choice? >> makes a lot of sense to me, willie. plenty of time for the defense to prepare its case, to do what they have to do. you know, sometimes where you stand depends on where you sit. i spent a lot of time as a federal prosecutor in the eastern district of virginia, so-called rocket docket. cases moved expeditiously. continuances were extraordinarily rare. six months would have been an ordinary window of time to set a case for trial. so strikes me as appropriate. let me also add something, willie. the january 6th case in federal court in the district of columbia is a one defendant, four charge indictment. so it's really not all that complex. if the defense attorneys want to get ready for trial, my advice, and i don't mean this in a

snarky way, is to sit down and start reading. >> chuck, on that score, i'd like to talk to you about judicial temperament, in terms of judicial patience. it seems that nearly every time donald trump shows up in court, whether he shows up personally or his legal team shows up in any of these cases, it's a different legal team. there is a different component quite often to his legal team. what does a federal judge do eventually when this continues to happen? >> well, there's a couple of different aspects to your good question, mike. one is, you know, the constantly rotating cast of characters. another is how they comport themselves in court. let me take the second thing first. i've never found it useful to raise your voice or pound the podium. i think those things work on television and in the movies, but in a real courtroom in front of a real judge, not a great

idea. also, you know, judges, i think, have -- most judges are patient. most of them are thoughtful. but they believe deeply in the rule of law and protect the decorum of their courtroom. so the more that, you know, these folks come in and raise their voices and make wild accusations and, you know, say things out of court, including on social media, the more you're going to push a judge to do something you might not like. perhaps a gag order, perhaps a contempt order, perhaps something else. look, i think judge chutkan in this case was absolutely right to set a trial date in march. as i said earlier, plenty of time. it also sort of minimizes the amount of time that mr. trump has to cause mischief, and that's a good thing. >> chuck, i want to turn you to georgia. as we've been discussing, mark meadows yesterday appeared on the stand and is trying to push that case to federal court. give us, first of all, your assessment as to whether that'll

be successful. secondly, how surprised were you meadows did this? a lot of legal analysts were taken aback, that he'd expose himself in that way. >> first question first, jonathan, i don't think it is a frivolous motion. i think it is plausible. i mean, the supreme court has laid out a three-part test to get a case -- laid out a three-part test to move a case from state court to federal court. the first part is easy. mr. meadows was a federal official. i think the third part is easy at this stage of the proceedings. he has a colorable federal defense if it gets removed. the second part is hard, and that sort of centers around the notion that he was acting within his appropriate role as a federal official. he was doing things that federal officials ought to do. the reason i think that's hard, jonathan, is what he was doing here was try to interference in a state election. he had his political hat on, i'd argue, not his chief of staff hat on. does it succeed?

does he actually get to move his case from state court to federal court? my guess is no. but even if he did, and it's possible he will, even if he did, he may win the battle and lose the war. he still has a criminal case pending against him. it'll simply be tried in federal court rather than state court. your second question, i was a bit surprised to see him take the stand. it didn't make a ton of sense to me. there are other ways for mr. meadows and his team to meet their burden of proof at the hearing. they could have submited affidavits or call other witness s. by taking the stand, he exposes himself to cross-examination, and it is perilous for someone who is a defendant in a criminal case. what he says can be used against him. it surprised me. maybe he managed to navigate those waters. we'll see. but that was a, i imagine, difficult decision for him to make. let's see if he did it

successfully. >> chuck, elise jordan here. there are so many cases to keep track of. so many indictments. of all of the cases that trump faces and the legal peril, what do you think is the greatest threat that a judge would -- there would be possibly be a conviction by a jury? >> yeah, so there's different ways, elise, of sort of thinking about the cases and ranking the cases. i mean, in some ways, the new york case strikes me as the least compelling, but the evidence is actually quite strong. if you want to talk about the most serious case, to me, that'd be the federal indictment in the district of columbia, the january 6th case. because it goes to the very heart of our democracy. elise, as you and i have discussed, this notion that a sitting president of the united states would use the powers of his office to try and overturn a fair and free election to thwart the peaceful transition of power, that is an extraordinarily serious case. so if you're talking about cases with very strong evidence, you

might make one list. if you're talking about cases with very serious crimes, you might make another list. but let me assure you, i wouldn't want to be a defendant in any case, state or federal, compelling or otherwise. i mean, he is facing four separate criminal indictments. all of them, elise, all of them carry the potential for jail time if he is convicted. you know, not a good day to wake up on the wrong side of a state or federal criminal case. >> chuck, as we look at this calendar that we've been showing this morning, it is just extraordinary. if we can put it up here. you just see what his docket looks like next year. we're talking about these four major cases. by the way, georgia is not yet on that calendar, so you can add that in. a couple of them in march, including the stormy daniels case here in manhattan. then in may, you have the mar-a-lago documents trial. throw in earlier in the year the e. jean carroll defamation suit, the pyramid scheme, the class

action suit, the list goes on and on. a two-parter. we know the judges are communicating out of necessity. when are you going? okay, i won't go then. scheduling these trials. also, on the defense side, how do you navigate this? oh, by the way, while your client is trying to run for president of the united states. >> yeah, good questions. very hard to do. on the first part of your question, willie, there is no sort of supreme air traffic controller. there is no one person in charge of calendaring all of these cases. it makes sense to me that the judges would talk at least as a courtesy to one another, to let one another other what they're thinking and how they're planning to schedule matters. it's almost impossible that all four of these criminal cases will be tried before the election next year. i can't sort of conceive of a way that that happens, but i think one or two of them can be tried before the november election. that seems to be what judge

chutkan, the federal judge in the district of columbia, was trying to do when she spoke with the new york state judg about scheduling. makes a lot of sense to me. you know, you put up the calendar. it is crowded. it's worth noting something that judge chutkan said. being a defendant in a criminal trial is not convenient. it is not intended to be convenient. lots of people who have busy schedules end up as defendants in criminal trials and have to put aside their personal lives to attend to these matters. that's exactly what mr. trump has to do. she wasn't sympathetic to the fact that he was a candidate for president. he has a matter he has to attend to in her court, and he'd better be there. the calendar is crowded. there's a lot of time -- i should say, there's a lot of matters taking up a little bit of time, but that's the way it goes when you're a defendant in a criminal case. you have to attend to it.

>> there's a good way to keep your legal calendar clear, and that is not to commit widespread alleged crimes. chuck rosenberg, thanks so much, as always. appreciate it. house republicans are demanding more information this morning in the hunter biden investigation. nbc news has learned judiciary committee chairman jordan, james comer and jason smith wrote a hetter to attorney general merrick garland, asking for all documents and communication related to the appointment of u.s. attorney david weiss as special counsel in the hunter biden case. weiss had been leading a five-year investigation into hunter biden when he was appointed special counsel when a plea deal in the case fell apart. the committee chairs raised questions about weiss' behavior during the investigation and asked why attorney general garland would need to appoint his special counsel, after insisting he had the ultimate authority in the case.

the justice department confirmed it received the letter but declined further comment. kevin mccarthy continues to signal an impeachment inquiry into president biden can be imminent, but not all republican members are on board. congressional reporter for "the hill," mychael schnell with more reporting on the divide in the republican party. good morning. obviously, you have speaker mccarthy suggesting there might be an inquiry. doesn't mean we're going to vote to impeach him, but we need access to all the documents. hearing from moderate republicans that's not a road they want to go down. >> yeah, that's exactly right, willie. right now, all signals point in the direction of there will likely be an impeachment inquiry into president biden come the fall when congress reconvenes. but as you mentioned, not all house republicans are on the same page. we saw speaker kevin mccarthy just this weekend say an

impeachment into biden would be the next step. there are republicans voting concerns. last week, i spoke with congressman don bacon from nebraska. the district he represents is one president biden won in 2020. he said he's not ready to open an impeachment inquiry into president biden because he hasn't seen direct evidence, a, of a high crime or misdemeanor that president biden has allegedly committed, and, b, in all these investigations into the biden business dealings and into the hunter biden plea deal and so forth, don bacon said he hasn't seen a direct link to president biden. he said until there is a direct link and there is evidence of a high crime or misdemeanor, he's not ready to launch an impeachment inquiry. >> speak to us, if you will, about two outside forces shaping mccarthy's thinking here. first, that he got bested by the white house and the debt ceiling deal and he needs to prove himself to the hard right in his conference there. and, secondly, the fact that donald trump has been beating the donald trump nearly on a

daily basis, calling for an impeachment inquiry just like this. >> exactly right. there are all these swirling dynamics around kevin mccarthy as he, remember, tries to handle this extremely slim majority he has. just a handful of seats he can afford to lose. first, when you talk about the right flank, as you mentioned, they were frustrated after the debt limit deal. they didn't think that deal cut between mccarthy and biden was conservative enough. after that, republicans really said they would hold mccarthy's feet to the fire, especially when it comes to appropriations. also, impeachment has been something that they've been pushing since the beginning of congress. there were articles of impeachment filed against president biden in the first month of this session. that's absolutely a dynamic, is speaker mccarthy handling his right flank. you mentioned president trump. i believe he posted a truth social this weekend saying that house republicans need to impeach president biden on fade into oblivion. this is something we're hearing from the president, pushing the republicans to impeach president biden.

obviously, president trump faced two impeachments while he was in office. he, of course, has now his swirling legal troubles. that's potentially, you know, another force that's pushing mccarthy in this direction, and something that is galvanizing house republicans as they voice concerns to speaker mccarthy and say that it's time to open an inquiry. >> we should remind viewers that david weiss,pointed by merrick s the u.s. attorney appointed by donald trump in the state of delaware. that doesn't appear to be enough here for republicans, as we've heard. obviously, the point of this exercise as far as house republicans are concerned is not really hunter biden. it is connecting him to joe biden in some way to try to slow down joe biden as he runs for re-election. james comer talks a lot about smoke. he says he thinks there might be fire but, so far, just smoke. has there been any connection drawn by these committees between hunter biden and joe biden in terms of the behavior, in terms of benefitting financially from hunter biden's activity? >> the short answer is no.

look, we saw testimony from devon archer. he is a former business associate of hunter biden. he said that on a handful of occasions, there were times when hunter biden put his father on speakerphone at business dinners and business meetings, but then devon archer said they justplea. he point-blank said he is not aware of any wrongdoing done on the part of the president. look, this is something don bacon was eluding to when i spoke to him last week. he said, we don't want to launch an inquiry based on the assumption there may be a direct link between president biden and the business dealings. there may be a high crime or misdemeanor on the part of the president. we need to be careful with this process and only take that step, which is a significant step. you know, we've seen two impeachments in the past four years, of course, with president trump. this is typically a very rare thing, right? it's not something that you see in every administration. moderates are saying, we need direct evidence and a direct link before we take the step.

a handful of moderates don't see it yet. >> congressional reporter for "the hill," mychael schnell, we'll keep an eye on this. speaker mccarthy floats the idea of an impeachment inquiry. thanks so much. the massive storm churning in the gulf coast now officially is a hurricane. idalia is expected to intensify rapidly through the gulf of mexico today and will make landfall on florida's gulf coast as early as tomorrow. 21 million people currently under tropical storm and hurricane watches. the national weather service is warning idalia could bring life-threatening storm surge and hurricane force winds, as well as major flood risks in some areas. let's get to meteorologist angie lassman tracking the storm. good morning. how does it look? >> good morning, willie. we've seen a couple changes overnight. folks are waking up and wondering what exactly is the difference between when you went to bed and this morning, we've, of course, seen it become a hurricane, just barely at 75 miles per hour. it looks healthier. you can start to see a bit of an eye forming there, and that gives us some indication that, again, it is getting its act

together, becoming more organized. it is going to move over the very warm waters of the gulf of mexico, running high 80s. it is going to be fuel for the storm. it doesn't have to encounter any wind shear. because of that, we are, of course, preparing, and you'll want to finish up those preparations today. that's the timeframe. we've got hurricane warnings, watches up. the hurricane warnings include basically tampa, stretching up through the nature coast. that's the biggest impact of the area we'll look for over the coming days. let's talk about that track. right now, category 1. moves away from cuba, over the warm waters of the gulf of mexico, becomes a category 2 later today. as it approaches the coastline of florida, likely becoming a category 3. it is not out of the question. it could be a category 4. either way, the impacts do not change. we'll see that heavy rain working across parts of the carolinas, too, as we get into wednesday and thursday. the storm surge is what we're concerned about. 8 to 12 feet on the dirty side of the storm, right side of where it comes on shore, it'll be a massive wall of water, wave action as well as the wind and the heavy rains we're expecting,

willie. >> time to prepare and to evacuate, if that's the order you've been given, is now. this is coming fast. >> yeah. >> angie lassman, thanks so much. ahead on "morning joe," a look at how some of donald trump's top allies in congress are trying to use the looming government shutdown to undermine the prosecutions against the former president. we'll have new reporting from capitol hill. plus, former new jersey governor, 2024 white house hopeful chris christie joins the conversation next. we'll have his reaction to the date set for donald trump's federal election interference trial and much more, as he crisscrosses the campaign trail. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom

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tuesday. obviously, a very busy day on the eve of that big super tuesday primary and caucus event. what is your reaction to the timing of this trial? >> well, look, willie, you know, as you know, i served seven years as the u.s. attorney in the fifth largest office in the country. we did over 130 public corruption cases during my seven years there. we were 130-0. i understand the way these cases work. this is a relatively straightforward case. it's just one defendant. it's essentially four charges. the idea that they have another six months to prepare for trial would be a normal situation in the district of new jersey. i think in probably almost any federal district of any size in the country. usually, you know, this is the way these cases work, so i'm not surprised by the date. i thought the 2026 request was ridiculous. when your lawyer is going in

making requests like that in front of a judge that they pay know is ridiculous. it doesn't curry you favor with the judge in the seriousness of the arguments you make. it was a bad strategic move. i'm convinced it was driven by the client, not by the lawyers, as most of the bad decisions on the trump legal team are driven by. now, they've got a march 4th date. you know, look, i think the thing for republican voters to think about out there is, this guy is going to be sitting in a courtroom starting on march 4th for probably six to eight weeks, depending upon the length of the defense case. at least six weeks. every day. not out on the campaign trail making the case against joe biden, which is what republicans should be doing every day. we simply cannot expect that someone who is facing this number of criminal trials, and, quite frankly, the conduct that underlies those charges, can be

a viable fall election candidate against joe biden. and if we lose to joe biden, republicans need to understand that we're going to be looking at a packed supreme court. we're going to be looking at the end of the filibuster and a number of other issues that folks like me and the rest of the folks in our party can't have. so i'm in this race because we want someone who can beat joe biden. on that debate stage wednesday night, willie, i was the only one on that stage that's ever defeated a democratic incumbent in an election. i did it in a very blue state, being outspent 3-1. that's why i'm the guy who can beat joe biden. this trial date for donald trump just makes it even clearer that he cannot be our nominee. if he is, we're going to lose the election. >> and it's just one of several trial dates next year. we've been showing this calendar this morning, governor, of how busy it is. this does not even include the georgia trial, which we dropped somewhere in there. last time you were on, we talked about polling that has donald

trump still way ahead. we want to talk about state polling. this morning, the ajc has one. that was national polling. ajc has a new poll out this morning, georgia after everything that's gone on. after the mugshot and the booking and everything else. donald trump still enjoys a 42-point lead over ron desantis in the state of georgia. what convinces you, governor, that that dynamic changes over the next several months, that, somehow, voters who have stood by donald trump and, in fact, in some cases intensified their support as they bought his case that he's a martyr and victim in all this, what changes that dynamic? >> i think what you're seeing right now. all of this stuff beforehand, willie, in terms of the impact that his conduct and the subsequent charges are going to have on the election have been hypothetical. now, people are going to see what they really mean. they're going to mean that a candidate can't be out there campaigning.

he's going to be tending to his own criminal trial in federal district court in the district of columbia. his own criminal trial in manhattan supreme court in new york. and those two cases, i think, are almost certain to both be tried before the election, even before the convention, i suspect, in the summer of 2024 coming up. so when those things become real, and let's face it, all these polls now, i can tell ya this. i've been at the jersey shore for a couple of days. nobody is focusing on this election. they're focusing on the end of their summer, their last week of potential vacation, getting their kids ready to start the school year if they haven't done so already. the debate wednesday was the starting gun in this race, and people are going to start to focus on it this fall. when they do, republicans are going to realize that nominating donald trump is going to be an

enormous gift to the democrats. the democrats are doing what they're doing because they want donald trump to be the nominee, because they know they can beat donald trump. the reason they know they can is they already have. >> governor christie, next year, when this thing really gets going, when the election really gets going, you've tried to make the case, and you're trying to make the case that you are the guy who can make the case against joe biden. so my question to you is, how does what's left of your political party, the remnants of the republican party, how do they, how do you make the case against joe biden, when last week, six of the eight candidates for president of the united states standing alongside you on the stage, indicated that they would vote for him, for trump, even if he were a convicted felon? how do you convince the country that your party is still sane? >> because i didn't raise my

hand, mike. and the leader of the party sets the tone for the party. the leaderhymnal the rest of thy sings from. i'll provide the leadership, first and foremost, that says the truth matters. the truth matters no matter whether the truth is helpful to you politically one day or less helpful the next day. the truth matters because the american people are tired of having a government that wastes their money, that doesn't provide results for them, given everything that they're providing to us in terms of their tax dollars. and i think those things are going to matter. you know, just in the same way that donald trump led aspects of our party astray because of his own personal conduct, his own self-absorption, and his own need to continue to pretend he was president even after he was defeated in 2020. new leadership can take our party in an entirely new direction, so i absolutely

believe in the fact that leaders make a difference. leaders don't follow polls, mike, they change 'em. that's the kind of leader i intend to be. that was the leader i was in new jersey for eight years as governor in a very blue state where people said he'd never get elected in the first place. i was coming on your show back then. you remember. then they said i'd never get re-elected. i won with 61% of the state. winning a majority of the hispanic vote in the state, winning 29% of the african-american vote. that's the kind of coalition that can bring the country together and get the type of conservative results we need to get our country back on track. so i just believe leadership matters. it makes a difference. if i didn't, mike, i wouldn't be running for president. >> governor christie, elise jordan here. you have chosen to attack donald trump more toughly and in a more robust way than any other candidate, and most republican

consultants, i'm sure, are saying, don't do that. republican voters still like donald trump. it's very tough to actually win if you're attacking donald trump. how do you attack and still make headway in the polls? >> well, elise, look, i can tell ya this, i have not been in the race even three months yet, and we've gone from zero to 14% in the latest poll in new hampshire. clearly in second place, ahead of ron desantis in fourth and vivek ramaswamy in third. we're now within 20 points of donald trump in new hampshire. he's only at 34%. so, you know, what matters is the truth. you can say i'm attacking donald trump, and i understand that's the way some people would look at it. but what i'm doing is telling the truth about donald trump. i'm not afraid to do so. that's why i didn't raise my hand on the stage on wednesday night. because the minimum bar we should have for someone to be running for president of the united states is that they're not indicted or convicted of

felonies. let alone the underlying conduct that is in these classified documents case, the january 6th case. these are acts that are just beneath the office he held when he committed the acts when he was president and the acts he committed since he was president are well beneath the bar we should have for anybody who aspires to be president again. what i'm doing is telling the truth to folks, and i'm doing it in the way i've always done it. absolutely looking into the camera like i'm looking this morning and telling people what i believe in my heart and what i know from my experience as a prosecutor. this guy is in big trouble. he is in big trouble because he did it to himself. he's inflicting that damage now on our party and on our country. that's not right. someone needs to stand up against that. i'm the one who is doing it. by the way, that now has me in second place in new hampshire, elise, after not even three months. i'm not nearly as pessimistic as

some others are. i know i can turn that second place in new hampshire into a win in new hampshire. when i do, this entire race will be turned on its head. >> governor christie, good morning. jonathan lemire. you just said that the debate last week was sort of the starting point of this race. we did see it had some impact in the polls. a few candidates saw numbers go up a little bit. we saw donald trump's go down, at least in a few state polls, iowa, in particular. there's a second debate looming in a few weeks, the reagan library in southern california. some in trump's orbit suggested he should reconsider and attend. what do you think? is donald trump going to show up? >> no, i don't think he'll show up at the reagan library debate, jonathan. the reason i don't is, again, his pettiness and everything to him is personal. so he's had a conflict for the last eight years with the reagan library. he's insulted that he hasn't been invited to speak there. he doesn't like the chairman of

the reagan foundation. you know, all of that is more important to donald trump than giving republican voters an opportunity to hear all the candidates who want to be president, compare their views up on the stage. so, no, i don't believe he'll show up at the reagan library debate. but i'd keep my eye on the debate in tuscaloosa, alabama, in october. at that point, he'll have lost even more ground in the polls, in my view, and you know that's all donald trump cares about, is looking at the latest poll that he can see and determining his conduct, not by what's right, not by what's fair to the republican voters, but by what he perceives in his personal interest. that's why he has no business being president again. that's why i think he may show up at alabama. i do not expect to see him at the reagan library on september 27th. >> we will see. former new jersey governor, republican presidential candidate chris christie. governor, thanks for your time this morning. we appreciate it.

>> willie, thanks for having me on. everybody out there who wants the truth to be in this race, go to chris christie.com and donate. >> there it is. governor, thank you. come up, a milestone for president biden's health care agenda. the administration unveiled the first ten prescription drugs selected for medicare price negotiations. senator amy klobuchar joins us to discuss what this means for americans trying to afford their own medication. "morning joe" is coming right back.

live picture of orlando at 7:42 in the morning. a little farther west, the state is bracing for idalia, category 1 hurricane, expected tropical in overnight. back in washington, relief

could be on the way for millions of americans struggling to afford their prescription medications. this morning, the biden administration is announcing the first batch of prescription drugs that will be subject to new price negotiations with medicare. joining us now, democratic senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. she's a member of the senate judiciary committee. good morning. good to have you on. let's talk -- >> thanks, willie. >> -- of what some of these drugs are. some people struggle to pay for the medications that get them through the day, and what exactly it means now they're open to negotiation with medicare. >> so this is a huge deal, willie. we have been working -- i've led this bill for decades. finally, with president biden's leadership. with aarp taking on the pharmaceutical companies on behalf of 50 million seniors and other senior groups, they're going to end the sweetheart deal, pharma is, where they were able to get and charge whatever they wanted to. so the drugs that have first been announced, these are just

the first ten. each year, there's going to be more and more drugs. things like eliquis and zerelto. it's for blood thinners, dealing with heart conditions, things like jardiance and diabetes drugs. a drug for arthritis and psoriasis. it is a game changer because they have three lobbyists for every member of congress. they have run multi-million dollar ad campaigns in order to lock in prices. president biden and a group of us in congress, democrats, finally said, that's it. we're taking this on. that means negotiation, just like you have with the v.a. for prices for 50 million seniors in america. >> we're talking about drugs that help with diabetes, patients with arthritis, crohn's disease, blood thinners that break up clots to prevent strokes and heart disease and

things like that. these are very, as i said, critical drugs that so many people. so how does this work now? if i'm someone who is excited to hear this news because i take one of these medications, what changes? how soon? >> so immediately, you're going to start seeing negotiations with the drug companies this year, then there will be an agreed on price. remember, in the u.s., we're paying something like 250% more for our drug prices than other industrialized nations. then the prices would take effect in a year or two. now, the insulin cap of $35 a month, that is already taking effect. the $2,000 out of pocket limit, something else democrats passed in congress and president biden led the way on, that's already taking effect. and free vaccines for things like shingles and pneumonia, those are in effect. our next stop, of course, willie, is to work on making sure that these prices we're going to see for medicare are

being rolled out for the rest of the country by pressure, by passing additional bills. >> senator klobuchar, i would submit, perhaps i'm in error, but i would submit that if you wanted to take a focus group to get reactions, honest reactions from people, does government work for you or not, it would be in the prescription line at cvs. and i think the replies would be almost enormously negative. you just indicated that after negotiations with pharma, that the drug prices will be adjusted, many of them will be lower, and the price effects will take place in a couple of years, i believe you said. my first question is, what took so long? my second question is, why is it going to take another two years to get those prices lower? >> first of all, as i point out, a big game-changer, insulin, you're already seeing that right now, okay? remember this. the $35 monthly cap.

now, you're starting to see it for people that are younger than medicare age, because it's put so much pressure on those major pharmaceutical companies to bring the prices down. free vaccines, that's happening now. out of pocket limitations, that is happening in 2025. these prices are set, the negotiated prices, to take place in 2026, but they could easily start hitting in early as the pressure on the market begins. why did it take so long? oh, my god, three lobbyists for every member of congress from pharmaceutical companies alone. they are around every corner. they are at every cocktail party. yes, they have exerted undue pressure. some of us stood up, including the president of the united states, joe biden, and said, "enough is enough." this last year is when we finally reversed the sweetheart deal that was put in place decades ago under a republican president, that basically insulated them from any kind of negotiation that you would see

in any other agency of the government. it's not just the seniors who are spending too much money on drugs. it's the taxpayers who are paying for it through medicare and other programs. it's the taxpayers who are putting their own money into the research. it's an outrage. republicans have resisted it and resisted it, changing the sweetheart deal. president biden got it done. >> senator, this is certainly a positive step for americans and paying for our health care. i know you also are working on generics, lowering the cost of generics. when can americans expect to see those prescription prices fall? >> so that is something that is -- i'm obsessed with. because when you just have one product on the market and the big pharma companies are stopping their competitors, of course you're going to have too high of prices. so here's three bills that have come through the judiciary committee, passed through

bipartisan. two are bills senator grassley and i have, to say you cannot pay off big pharma. you can't pay off generics to keep their products off the market. that's called pay for delay. secondly, you can't file sham petitions to stop the drugs from getting on the market. finally, another bill that senator blumenthal and cornen have, you cannot do something called product hopping. you basically play games with the patent system to stop these drugs and competitors from going out there. so there is more to do. the announcement today is a game-changer. they have been locked in. pharma got literally written into law, there would be no negotiation for prices for years. aarp and other senior groups have been taking on this fight. and you don't mess around with 50 million seniors. that's what they've done. the president has led the way. there is a change today. i'm proud. after years of toiling away on my bill, to allow the

negotiations, this is finally happening today. >> senator klobuchar, shifting gears. when the senate returns from its recess next month, one of the front of mind objectives will be dealing with senator tuberville icepromotions. he has shown no signs of backing down. can you give us a sense of how you and your fellow democrats will try to approach this, and what sort of real world implications does it have right now? >> i have had so many members of our military and veterans come up to me over the last few weeks all over little towns, big towns in the state of minnesota. this is going on all over the country, including in his own state of alabama. he has blocked hundreds of soldiers from getting promotions. he has blocked the new head of the marines, that we want to install in place. you don't mess with the marines. he has blocked the head of the indo-pacific demand. it is endless, and his reason,

of course, you know this, he doesn't want to allow those who are serving in our military who want to get their reproductive health care and aren't allowed into the it in a state to go to another state as the military wants to do and allow women to get that care. that's what he's blocking. that's why. what have we offered him? we've offered him a vote on that very issue. he would lose it, he know its, and he didn't take that deal. we also have a number of republicans who don't agree with him on this. that's what he's done. they included that provision in the house. again, that was not a big enough victory for him in their bill, and he just continued to block the military. it hurts our country. china's watching this. they know that we don't have someone in the indo-pacific command. we've got soldiers who feel like they should have people that are running the military and are really pissed off about this.

i can't explain what he's going to do after this august when we get back in a week, but maybe he's had some time to think about it, and we can finally allow our military to run as it has for decades and decades. with democrats and republicans agreeing to support the recommendations of those that we want to put when we are putting our soldiers in harm's way, and they're basically standing up for our freedoms. many of us have just had it on both sides of the aisle, and this is going to be his moment when he gets back, he better stop this hold. >> as you say, it is both sides of the aisle. mitch mcconnell said a long time ago, i disagree with what senator tuberville is doing. democratic senator, amy klobuchar of minnesota, now open to medicaid negotiations, hopefully soon for people who need these medications

seriously. thank you for your time this morning. appreciate it. >> great to be on. thank you. coming up here, we'll have more expert legal analysis on donald trump's legal troubles after another trial date was added to his calendar. trump's top allies, floating moves that could slow down the prosecutions of the former president. we've got that new reporting straight ahead on "morning joe." how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching)

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astros at fenway park. a lot of grimacing to my left

from mike barnicle and jonathan lemire. >> they travel well, not as well as the dodgers did. >> how was that having mookie betts back in austin? >> painful? >> emotionally painful for me and jonathan to a certain extent. i was there. i saw mookie, he is a splendid human being before he's a baseball player. to lose a home grown talent of unique character and skill, obviously, he's going to be the national league mvp, i would expect. maybe beating out ronald akuna. it was emotionally draining to see him in a dodger uniform. >> not to dredge it go, how did they let him go, it's like the yankees letting derek jeter go. >> he's a hall of famer, and yesterday that defeat to the astros, when the red sox sent signals, we don't have the

pitching to compete. they're on the fringe of the wild card race, but it's not happening. >> i'm looking at the standings, new york yankees are 19 games out of first place, eleven games out of the wild card. second worst batting in baseball. it's astonishing. there are going to be big changes coming. >> it's amazing to see over the course of the summer the impact that aaron judge has on this team. when he was out, they were a completely different team, for two months, a completely different team. >> and the statistics bear that out. citi field, i went to a game. i grew up here, live here, first time ever in citi field, thanks to the mets and peacock, broadcasting the game, i'm a die hard yankee fan, beautiful park. they were playing the angels, i got to see ohtani, it was a reminder, there's never a bad day at the ballpark. sure, they're in last place.

>> ohtani, still out there, he can't pitch, but he's out there hitting every day, and playing every day. an under rated ballpark. >> ohtani doesn't have to be out will. he's hurt, risking $100 million every time he goes out. still ahead this morning, house republicans cannot stop the prosecutions of donald trump but they're going to try to hinder them at least. nbc's sahil kapur has new reporting on how the ex-president's legal problems could factor into government funding bills. we are tracking the path of the hurricane idalia as that storm barrels toward florida. we'll have the latest on the expected landfall tomorrow. that's ahead on "morning joe" as our 3rd hour starts right now. what i'm hopeful for is there's some way that we can find some kind of an agreement to look at this a little bit more fully.

mr. secretary, i can tell you, you said there was only two dead people that would vote. i can promise you there are more than that. >> that is mark meadows, donald trump's former chief of staff making a brief appearance on the infamous find the votes call with georgia secretary of state on january 2nd, 2021. that exchange was part of his legal team's defense yesterday as meadows spent five hours on the witness stand. we'll get expert legal analysis on that hearing, and on the trial date set now for the former president in the federal election interference case, which could come the day before super tuesday. plus, president biden is clearing the way for a major federal response in florida ahead of hurricane idalia's expected landfall. we'll have the latest forecast for that storm, which is projecting to be a big one. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, august 29th. i'm willie geist, with us the host of "way too early," author of the big lie, jonathan lemire,

nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, and former litigator and nbc legal analyst, lisa rubin. let's dive in, as we begin with a start date now set for donald trump's federal election interference. district court judge tanya chutkan ordered jury selection on march 4th of next year. prosecutors asked for the trial to begin in early january of next year while trump's lawyers proposed it begin in april of 2026. yesterday, judge chutkan said neither of those dates were acceptable, but quote, this case is not going to trial in 2026. that decision was met with pushback inside the courtroom from trump attorney john lauro who was cautioned twice by the judge to turn down the temperature when he was speaking. lauro claimed it was a violation of the oath to due justice that the former president be tried so soon, arguing he would not have

enough time to prepare his client's defense. judge chutkan dismissed those concerns, noting that trump has been aware since last year that he was the focus of jack smith's investigation and could have been preparing his defense during that time. as for when the date falls on the political calendar, the judge said, quote, setting a trial date does not depend and should not depend on a dflt's personal and professional obligations. mr. trump, like any defendant will have to make the trial date work regardless of his schedule. judge chutkan noted there's a strong public interest in the case, the quicker it goes to trial, the more it reduces a defendant's opportunity to kmit crimes while on pre-trial release. trump was quick to respond on social media. he wrote quote, trump hating judge, blasting her for scheduling the trial one day before super tuesday. he claimed he would appeal the

decision, something he does not have the power to do. lisa, i'll start with you, on the date of march 4, ambitious compared to what the trump team demanded in 2026. a little bit later than what jack smith wanted but not a whole lot later. >> not a whole lot later, but reasonable, willie, and i think one of the reasons it's reasonable is for the ways in which judge chutkan was discussed with john lauro, the fact that the pages of discovery weren't actually 12.8 pages of discovery, and she noted for him how much of that is duplicative, how much of that is already in the public domain, and how much it have they've already had in their possession and had an opportunity to review for months. and lauro wouldn't concede any of that, and i think they really lost her by refusing to engage with her in terms she found reasonable. >> ken, you were at the hearing yesterday. what was the tenor? just reading through it, it

looked lick there was a lot of back and forth with judge chutkan admonishing lauro in there. >> i was actually standing outside doing live shots for msnbc but i was reading word for word as our colleagues inside were typing what she was saying into the google doc i was looking at. i wish i could watch it on television. it was a remarkable hearing where the reality distortion field of the trump defense in this case kind of came crashing on the shoulders of this hard-nosed judge who wasn't taking any nonsense. she made a number of statements that would have been beneficial for the public at large to watch her say. for example, that mr. trump is going to be treated with no more or no less deference than any other criminal defendant, that he, like any other busy, prominent criminal defendant, he's going to have to adjust his schedule, whatever it is, running for president or running a large corporation to the

necessities of the criminal trial, and she's in charge of that. and she, as lisa said, i mean, it seemed like a huge miscalculation by john lauro and the defense, she begged them to come up with a reasonable performance than april 2026. it was a nonstarter. it wasn't going to happen. she rejected the notion that the massive amount of discovery made it impossible to prepare for trial. they didn't give her an alternative, so she gave them a date that was two mounts removed from the special counsel's date. this one thing from the special counsel, molly gaston, an interesting appeal to how important it is to get this case to trial. she said that the defendant is accused of historic crimes. this is molly gaston from the special counsel's office. and there's an incredibly strong public interest in a jury's

prompt consideration of those claims in open court. and judge tanya chutkan agreed. she said the right to a speedy trial wasn't just the defendant's right, it was the public's right. and she agreed the public had a right to hear this case before the 2024 election. nobody thinkings the march 4th date is firm. lauro made clear he's going to file a motion to argue that donald trump is immune because he was president from these criminal charges and that's something that could go all the way to the supreme court, while this trial is pending, so this may slip but the bottom line is that judge tanya chutkan clearly wants to get the trial moving sometime next year before the election. that's hugely significant. >> ken led me to my next question. you, in your experience as a litigator, is this a marker the judge is putting down that may move. >> somewhere in between. tanya chutkan means that march 4th is a date that she is aiming

for. it's not negotiable in the sense that they can't go back and talk about it next week. but through motion practice or appeals, could we be looking at a date further down the road? absolutely. but is it her intent to try this case before the election and will she do that, i believe she will. >> so, john, obviously trump and his team have lumped all of these investigations together as quote, election interference, in other words, suggesting that this justice department is trying to prevent him from becoming president of the united states again. does this add a little fuel to his case if unfairly that the day before super tuesday, a day when he likely would be crisscrossing the country and going to key states and campaigning that he's going to be sitting in a courtroom. does the eve of super tuesday help him make that case. >> that's the political argument they are taking. trump took to truth social to say that. the timing can't be a coincidence, that basically they're picked the day before super tuesday to hurt my chances from becoming the republican nominee, and therefore becoming

president again, and certainly we have no reason to believe at all that that is factored into the judge's decision, but that is what trump is saying, and how he's trying to whip up support from the supporters, that's the argument from day one, the just department that belongs to my top rival, president biden, is trying to prosecute me so i can't unseat president biden. that's the argument. and he's going to keep making it. does underscore the challenge that lies in front of him. that there are all of these dates. we know that alvin bragg in new york has signalled he will step aside, play differential to the federal case, that that should go first. but as you see here, the iowa caucus in january, we have the dates of course that there are other votes in february and march, and he's going to be shuttling from courtroom to courtroom. also trying to mix in political rallies, and certainly obstacles that no presidential campaign has ever faced before. >> and georgia will be sprinkled

in there as well. once they decide on something. meanwhile, former white house chief of staff mark meadows took the witness stand for five hours yesterday in the first hearing for his motion to move the fulton county election case to federal court. the bulk of the questioning surrounded what his official role as chief of staff entailed. meadows framed his actions in the after math of the election as part of his job as the former president's top aide. his legal team argued any action he took simply was connected to that role, including that infamous find the votes call. we played for you just a moment ago, where he was on with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. >> i only need 11,000 votes. fellows, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. because we won the state. there's nothing wrong with

saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. >> there it is on tape, fulton county district attorney fani willis and her office say meadows' actions were a violation of the hatch act which prohibits government officials from using their official roles to influence an election. nbc news reports a lawyer for the d.a. pressed meadows about solely advancing the interests of the campaign would be outside the scope of his responsibilities. i would not agree with that, meadows said. raffensperger also testified for about an hour after being subpoenaed by the prosecution. there's not a ruling as yet. the judge said meadows would need to be arraigned in the case as scheduled if there's not been a decision by then. that arraignment for meadows, donald trump and 17 others has been scheduled for next week, a week from tomorrow, september 6th. set to begin at 9:30 a.m. and run at 15 minute intervals. there's no word yet on whether those arraignments will be in person or virtual. so some kind of speed dating

there, just getting them through, 15 minutes at a time, lisa rubin, to get them arraigned. let's go back to mark meadows, does he have a case that this should be moved to federal court. >> he has a frivolous case, and ultimately an unsuccessful one. he was asked is there anything that the president asked you to do that would have been beyond your scope of duties, this white house chief of staff, and the only thing he could come up with is trump asking him to speak at a rally. it's not the case that it's the only thing that he could do that would go beyond his federal duties. if it were, the hatch act would be a nullity. the issue is not whether he should be prosecuted for violating the hatch act, it's whether mark meadows was acting within the scope of his federal duties, and ultimately as brad raffensperger, and an attorney associated with the trump campaign, curt hilliard

testified, it was electoral, and not to ensure a federal function of ensuring free and fair elections as meadows tried to insinuate yesterday. >> members of the trump act highlighted the hatch act that it was part of their job description from various white house podiums. ken, talk to us about how surprising it was that meadows took the stand yesterday. that was something that really took the lo of people off guard. >> shocking because as he said himself during his testimony, i'm in enough trouble as it is, and he talked about his faulty memory. but, look, his lawyers must have felt like, look, he has a pretty folksy, relaxed demeanor. we have all seen it on television, and his lawyers must have felt like he would be a good witness, and he was sort of conversing enough with the facts not to trip himself up, but this whole question of whether he was acting politically, it's not just significant for the purposes of whether this case gets moved to federal court, which, by the way, wouldn't derail the case.

the same charges, the same prosecutors, the only thing that would change is the jury pool. this goes to the question of whether donald trump can assert that he was acting as president, and is therefore immune from the federal charges because, you know, everybody knows in washington that the chief of staff among all jobs in the white house is the one that crosses the line between politics and policy. you know, one day the chief of staff is getting the high level intelligence briefing. the next day he's calling political operatives in minnesota to talk about a local issue. but because that call was so blatantly political. donald trump wasn't asking about, you know, potential fraud and raising his concerns about the integrity of the election. he was asking about the votes that he needed to win the election. that puts this whole call and the other activities that meadows was engaging in squarely in the political realm. any reasonable person can see that. so it not only undercuts meadows' claim to remove the

trial to federal court, it's going to be an issue when donald trump comes to federal court, and says i'm immune to these charges under the presidential immunity doctrine because i was acting as president, concerned that there was fraud in the election. a deeply significant hearing yesterday. >> lisa, can i ask you a question that i'm sure a lot of people are wondering, if you're participating in an alleged conspiracy to overturn an election, why does it matter what role, as chief of staff or a campaign role, you're still participating in an alleged conspiracy. what's the distinction there? >> the import of the question has to do with meadows' effort to remove to federal court. if you're trying to move a case to federal court on the grounds that you're a federal officer, which is what the statute requires, you have to show you were fulfilling a federal function. it's not so much is it relevant to the conspiracy, it's is it relevant or can you prove it to get your case to federal court? but of course the reason meadows wants to be in federal court in the first place is so he can

advance the argument that ken was referring to, the federal immunity. because he was a federal officer acting in ka hoots with the president that it would be improper for fani willis to prosecute him in state court, that the federal constitution has supremacy, and he belongs in a federal court, but that's really just a vehicle to get rid of the case entirely. >> let's go to the state of georgia as we bring in political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution," greg bluestein. an extraordinary day in fulton county with mark meadows, really the first time we have had a witness, effectively, sit and testify and that we could hear so much of the evidence, and really to see where he is and what kind of arguments he's going to make in this case. what did you take away from that long day? >> it was the first big test of fani willis's case in georgia. it underscored the surprise testimony from mark meadows, underscored just how badly he

wanted to win this motion. legal experts did not expect mark meadows to take the stand. it's important, as lisa mentioned, first of all, he can advance that argument that he was immune from prosecution because he was acting as a federal officialment beyond -- official. beyond that, it changes the jury pool, not just driven from fulton county, but also from a broader pool of ten counties in the metro atlanta area, and for us viewers at home, it means that like will we will not be able to see the proceedings like we would from fulton county court. >> what did we learn from brad raffensperger, he has been strong since day one on all of this, and we heard him on january 22nd, saying the election was fair, we counted, recounted and counted again, and joe biden won the state. what did we learn from his testimony yesterday if anything? >> the secretary of state has

said this over and over. he wrote a book about it, that annotated that entire phone call, so the public didn't necessarily learn anything new. now it's admit instead a court of law. his testimony can be used in every single hearing going forward, every legal proceeding, every motion, every document that is filed in this case, him saying that he followed the law, and that he was not going to be coerced or intimidated or bullied by the former president and his top aides to find enough votes to reverse the election results. >> he's a powerful witness in all of this. greg, with all of this in mind, everything we have seen in the sate of georgia, particularly just in the last week, you at the ajc have new polling out this morning showing how it may or may not be impacting donald trump. check this out. donald trump among republican voters in the primary, at 57%. his next challenger, ron desantis, 42 points back at 15%. everybody else registering in the low double digits. this is sort of a reflection of

what we have seen nationally, greg, which is that among primary voters, not among the country, necessarily, among primary voters, among republicans, this martyrdom that donald trump has professed seems to be working. >> yeah, it's surprising and it's not surprising. it reflects other polls throughout the nation. this is also in georgia. this is the scene of some of donald trump's most humiliating setbacks, not just in 2020 when we lost to joe biden, became the first republican to lose the state of georgia in a presidential election since way back in 1992. also in 2021 when senate candidates running on the maga brand lost to democrats, flipping control of the chamber, and of course in 2022 when his hand picked selection for the u.s. senate herschel walker went down in defeat to raphael warnock. you know, trump has a 33 point lead in a hypothetical

head-to-head matchup with ron desantis. it shows that ron desantis is nowhere close to striking distance to donald trump in georgia, but at the same time, it also shows, well, what it doesn't show is where middle of the road georgia voters sit. this is likely republican voters, and we have seen a defection of a lot of middle of the road, swing independent voters who used to vote traditionally for republicans in georgia, but in the trump era, they no longer are. that's the block of voters that could decide this election. >> senior white house officials have long said georgia would be the hardest state to keep to win again this time around. they think it would be harder if it were not donald trump atop the ticket, greg, but certainly right now, all indications are that it will be trump again as the republican nominee. in that hypothetical, let's say those poll numbers hold, and trump sweeps through georgia and he's the gop standard bearer again. what do you think happens for

governor kemp and secretary of state raffensperger who have opposed trump every step of the way in the last two-odd years, would they fall in line and become good republican soldiers again, or do you think they would continue to try to keep him as best they can at arm's distance? >> that's an important question. not only have they opposed donald trump and rejected his attempts to overturn the election. they could be star witnesses in the trial that could happen as early as next year. brian kemp called him the loser of the debate last week because he refused to show up on stage. but at the same time, i think he'll take the same stance he took with herschel walker, he was not a huge fan of either last year in the senate race. he ended up stumping for him, saying how important it is for republicans to have a republican in the chamber, whether it be herschel walker or anyone else.

i think he'll do the same thing next year, railing about how bad he thinks joe biden's agenda is for georgians, rather than talking about donald trump's agenda himself. >> it's an amazing stance, isn't it, to rail against donald trump, to say we stood in the door as donald trump tried to flip an election on us, and yet, we still in the end will support him. one more number from your poll that i think is fascinating to put up as we let you go, greg, which is the charges against trump in georgia f you put the top two line together. 50% of the people in the state of georgia, primary voters, half of the voters believe the charges are serious or somewhat serious. not too serious, not serious at all. you've got half of them saying, yeah, what he did is pretty serious or very serious, but likely, greg, i'm going to vote for him anyway. >> exactly. we spent a chunk of our day at ajc calling poll responsibilities who said exactly that. they are worried about the charges, they think he did wrong when he called brad

raffensperger, and urged him to find enough votes to overturn his defeat. they're indicating many are willing to support donald trump in the primary, and that's going to be the difference in georgia. >> the "atlanta journal-constitution's" greg bluestein. so plugged in, always great to talk about all things georgia. we appreciate it. i want to put the calendar back up and put yourself in the shoes of a defense attorney for donald trump trying to navigate all of this. i mean, we talked about the headline trials, but mix in there the e. jean carroll, civil defamation suit. pyramid suit. we're waiting to see where georgia falls on that in terms of starting the trial there. how do the prosecutors put the trial pieces to go, and how do you navigate this as a defense? >> it's unimaginable. i don't know if the prosecutors are going to coordinator. yesterday we got a hint that

maybe the judges might coordinate. judge tanya chutkan said she had been in touch with the judge in new york who scheduled a trial for march, and they were going to deconflict those potential dates. in terms of donald trump's legal team, and trump himself and the mental resources they're going to have to devote to these various defenses, it's, i mean, we've never been here before. four complex criminal trials, potentially all unfolding over the next year. you know, there's a lot of bombast and hyperbole when trump's lawyers go into court, and talk about how long it's going to take. in this case, in this respect, they are correct that they have their work cut out for them here, i mean, it's just, the amount of work they have to do to get ready for all four of these separate trials and plus the civil case that he mentioned, even though, you know, there's some overlap between the legal teams, some people are different. it's just mind boggling, and then you have donald trump who's

going to be trying to run for president even as he is devoting some resources. the defendant has to be involved in his own defense. there's certain things that only the defendant knows. we are in for a real show next year to see how this all plays out, and, you know, frankly, donald trump from where i sit, doesn't appear to have enough lawyers, and enough legal resources to really successfully defend all of these cases in this compressed period. that's really part of the argument his lawyers were making, they have made in both florida and in washington before these federal judges. look, we need more time. we just need to get more legal resources on this. he's at a real disadvantage with this. that's not something to be taken lightly. >> if you look at what judge chutkan has put forth, a march 4th start date, they're making clear, these are happening, despite the requests for donald trump's team to push them until

after the election. >> to ken's point, donald trump doesn't have enough legal resources right now. partially because he's playing legal musical chairs. the fact that mr. lauro are just coming on to the case, doesn't mean donald trump hasn't been sitting with these charges for a long time. the fact that he can't assemble a legal team is not the judge's problem. >> going to be quite a year or 18 months ahead. lisa rubin, ken dilanian, we'll be talking to you both quite a bit. thank you so much. coming up, an update on hurricane idalia as it barrels toward florida's gulf coast. what officials are saying about the risk of life threatening conditions this morning. that's just ahead on "morning joe." that's just ahead on "morning joe.

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now to an update on the racially motivated attack on jacksonville, florida, a gunman shot and killed three black people at a dollar general store. he left behind a manifesto detailing his hate for black people. yesterday, a protest and a call to end white supremacy. some demonstrators, president biden spoke during a white house event to mark the march on washington anniversary calling on americans to do more to stop hate and criticizing lawmakers who push extremist policies. >> we can't let hate prevail,

and it's on the rise. it's not diminishing. silence, i believe, that we've all said many times, silence is complicity, and we're not going to remain silent, and so we have to act against this violence. there's a whole group of extreme people trying to erase history, trying to walk away from it. sitting here, i never thought i would be president, and let alone, be president and discussing why books are being banned in america's schools. >> the president at the white house yesterday. gene, your latest op-ed in the "washington post" is titled, "black people are being killed for being black again," while thousands gathered saturday on the national mall to mark the out of anniversary of the march on washington, a racist white man in jacksonville, florida, killed three african americans for the unforgivable crime of

being black americans. the crowd was also right to boo desantis, he has weakened gun laws, and his institute of a new curriculum in florida schools that down plays the long history of african-americans being targeted precisely because of their race. martin luther king's dream will never be realized until the nation fully confronts and acknowledging its history. mass shootings will not end until the nation enacts sensible laws to keep weapons out of the hands who use them to kill. that lethal combination that we have seen way too often in the last several years of explicit hatred, and high powered weapons. >> the explicit hatred is not new in this country. it's the same thing that happened last year in buffalo at the tops supermarket where ten black people were killed for being black, and the same thing happened in 2015 at mother

emanuel church in charleston, south carolina, where nine black people were killed for being black. the same thing that happened in 1955 in mississippi with emmett till, and we're right around that anniversary. i mean, you know, and what really got to me was the way that in florida, in jacksonville, florida, in florida, we're talking about essentially whitewashing history. which governor desantis has been doing. and until we acknowledge and know this history, the history of the long jim crow period, the history of the violence that was committed during those decades against black people in this country, across this country, we're just not going to move forward. and so it is shameful that their efforts to, in effect, hide that

history. and, of course, there is a separate issue of guns, which we talk about every time we have one of these shootings. and, you know, you get horsed from making this point, but you have to keep making it over and over again. we're the only country that has more guns than people. we're the only advanced country that has these mass shootings. >> and police in jacksonville saying in this case, the shooter bought two guns legally, passed the background checks, and everything went through quickly and easily, but again, here we are, and in this case, three innocent souls, one sitting in a car, one walking into a dollar general store, and a 19-year-old working a job at a dollar general store killed for it. your column is up at "the washington post".com, we appreciate it. good to see you. would a government shutdown sideline the criminal proceedings against donald

trump. we'll dig into that and much more when we go live to capitol hill straight ahead on "morning joe." ve to capitol hill straight ahead on "morning joe. i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? pretty sad. and i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. we set up the patriotic kenny foundation to give mobility scooters to veterans. it has changed my life tremendously. none of this would've happened without tiktok.

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all right. let's talk about some new polling that we're just getting in about president biden showing his age is a significant concern for voters ahead of the 2024 election, including among democrats, by the way, a new ap norc poll finding more than 3/4 of americans think biden who is 80 is too old to serve another term. 77% of them. donald trump is just three years younger than biden, but only 51% of americans say he is too old to be effective in a second term. broken down by party, 89% of republicans say biden is too old. 69% of democrats say he's too old. and 74% of independents say the

same. in contrast, only 28% of republicans say trump is too old, versus 71% of democrats and about half of all independents. so eugene robinson, this is something that the white house, the biden biden campaign cannot. when you have private dinner parties and at the ice cream place, even democrats who like joe biden and plan to support him, they do have concerns about his age. >> yes, they do, and it's a fact they have to deal with. the fact is also that those democrats highly unlikely to say, okay, he's too old, i'll vote for donald trump. they're not going to do that. and indeed, if it is a trump-biden rematch, i think it's very likely that the main question will be donald trump. it's a stark, you know, binary choice. do you want four more years of

biden or four more years of trump. i think the biden camp is, you know, fairly confident on that score that that's how it's going to come down. but it is a problem, and it is ironic. he's only three years older than donald trump. he is visibly in better physical shape than donald trump, you know, despite those figures from the georgia booking that have trump at 6'3", 215, i'm sorry, you know, that is a total fantasy, and, you know, you see biden riding on his bicycle and doing all of this stuff, and trump doing none of that, but none of that seems to stick. and so this is just something that biden has to deal with. >> john, gene is absolutely right, if you ask democrats, 7 out of 10, that's too old.

are you going to vote for him. of course i'm going to vote for him. i'm not going to support donald trump. is it enough of an issue, the indemnities in the middle who may be on the fence still. >> i had this conversation with senior democrats, and they acknowledge, they know the president's age is an issue. they understand it's a legitimate concern for voters. that said they believe if it's a head-to-head, especially with donald trump, that the questions about the president's age will be outweighed by other matters that it simply won't be as important. now, they do think that the calculation would change somewhat, at least, if a republican not named donald trump ended up being on top of the ticket, the age gap wouldn't be three years, but 30 years. trump is far and away the favorite to be the republican standard bearer. >> it really would just be a black swan event for someone other than donald trump to get the nomination at this time. however, if it were say, nikki haley, who has enjoyed such a

bump, and is getting a real second look from a lot of big republican donors, if she got the nomination, i do think it would potentially be another story. the donald trump head-to-head it's going back more to where is the economy right now, where's the economy going to be next october. is your life better under biden than it was under trump and voting from there. if the republicans could get their act together and viably support someone else, it could be a different game. >> you mentioned nikki haley, she has been saying explicitly a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris, given the age of president biden. haley continues to criticize fellow candidate vivek ramaswamy on the issue of foreign policy. she did not mention ramaswamy by name yesterday at a town hall in her home state of south carolina, but did refer to his comments during that debate. >> so when you have somebody on stage that's going to say i'm

just going to let russia have this part of ukraine, and i'm going to tell them you can't do anything with china going forward, that's just naive. it's completely naive. and the other thing that bothers me is it is completely narcissistic to think that america doesn't need friends. we do need friends. we do need allies, we should never stop doing that. we have a front line defense with ukraine, they are keeping putin from doing what he said, the next step is poland and the baltics, that's a world war. that's what we're trying to prevent. >> in an op-ed, the biotech entrepreneur said his administration would end aid to ukraine, and would not defend taiwan from a chinese invasion after the united states achieves

semiconductor independence. what's your reaction to both of those ideas? >> wow, just a lot of leaps and bounds there. semiconductor independence, how quickly is that going to be achieved, first of all. and the idea that we can completely separate ourselves from ukraine and europe and overall security, it does sound fantastical and a bit immature. ramaswamy is speaking in the same mode as so many gop candidates, i'll just say donald trump, and over simplifying, giving an easy sound bite for a hugely complex issue, and he thinks he's going to reap benefits in the post-iraq war years, which the other candidates, i do, i look at their foreign policies and they need to wise up a bit too, and adjust to the realities that americans overall want to have a more restrained foreign policy. >> there are actually so few policy differences between the republicans running for

president. it's interesting that ukraine is one that has emerged, where we have from vice president pence or governor christie and a few others saying, look, we need to keep this thing going, we need to keep arming kyiv against russia, while others including trump, ramaswamy, desantis have said others, that we should start scaling back. as that plays out as the backdrop, i'm curious what you think that debate on the presidential level may inform the debate coming up in congress because it's just a few weeks now where the white house, you know, they have already submitted their proposal to the hill for ukraine funding. this is the first time they'll do so with the republicans in control of the house. we know there's some fringy republicans there who are very loud and very lock step in option to any funding, but with so many of these prominent national ones also coming out in favor of curtailing that, how do you think that plays out on the hill? what do you think the white house will end up getting? >> you know, i think it complicates the administration's attempt to get this package

through congress. i think it really does. it doesn't necessarily doom it. and kevin mccarthy has, you know, kind of walked this tight rope sort of paying lip service to his right while making clear that he is in favor of continued aid to ukraine, and basically is a foreign policy traditionalist, but, you know, what is his caucus going to do? what is his caucus going to go along with him? i think he'll have more problems than he would have had if this were not the tenor of the debate the other night. so it's fascinating. the other thing that will be fascinating to see in terms of the republican party is whether nikki haley actually does get a polling bump from that debate because she came off as informed and reasonable and experienced,

and of course the question is whether today's republican party wants informed, reasonable and experienced, and right now, it looks like probably the party doesn't, but who knows. maybe she will emerge as sort of the anti-trump alternative in time, we'll see. >> and what does a polling bump look like this in gop primary, does it mean you're down 38 points instead of 43 points, the margins are so wide. it's interesting to note, as nikki haley called vivek ramaswamy naive, there's a clip of 2003 town hall, with one reverend al sharpton, running for president, questioned by a young student about his experience. that student, vivek ramaswamy.

>> go ahead. >> reverend sharpton, i'm vivek, last week on the show we had senator kerly, and this week, and the week before, we had senator edwards and my question for you is of all the democratic candidates out there, why should i vote for the one with the least political experience? out there, why should i vote for the one with the least political experience? >> well, you shouldn't, because i have the most political experience. [ applause ] >> i got involved in the political movement when i was 12 years old, and i've been involved in social policy for the last 30 years. don't confuse people who have a job with political experience. whoever the head of some local bureaucracy has a job in cambridge. that doesn't mean they have political experience and it doesn't mean they have experience to run the united states' government. i think we confuse title holders

with political experience, as we have seen with the president occupying the white house. george bush was a governor and clearly has shown he doesn't have political experience. [ applause ] >> that was 20 years ago, october of 2003. fascinating that it was vivek ramaswamy, but also rev on his feet. that answer was amazing. >> so good. i heard from reverend sharpton this morning. he's aware of the clip. he says he has no memory of that exchange. he talked to voters every day on the trail. it's a reminder of the impressive run he had in 2004 and how fast he has always been. >> he's only 68. he's young. >> sharpton 2028. next, one of our next guests served on the foreign relations

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the thing for republican voters to think about is this guy is going to be sitting in a courtroom starting on march 4th for probably six to eight weeks, depending upon the length of the defense case, but at least six weeks, every day, not out on the campaign trail making the case against joe biden, which is what republicans should be doing every day. we simply cannot expect that

someone who is facing this number of criminal trials and, quite frankly, the conduct that underlies those charges, can be a viable fall election candidate against joe biden. >> that is chris christie earlier this morning discussing donald trump's busy legal schedule which yesterday got another trial date. it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. here in the east. donald trump's federal trial over alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election is now set to begin on march 4th of next year, the day before super tuesday. it is just one of the four criminal trials trump faces in four different jurisdictions. nbc news legal correspondent laura jarrett has details. >> reporter: as the republican primary heats up next spring, so might a criminal trial about the

last presidential election. a judge in washington, d.c. pencilling in march of 2024 for prosecutors to begin their case against donald trump for trying to overturn the 2020 election. judge tanya chutkan rejected the former president's bid to delay the trial until after the election, emphasizing the public interest in seeing this case resolved in a timely manner. >> the trial date could slide, but not because mr. trump is going to prevail on appeal. >> reporter: trump's calendar on a collision course with his trials. his rivals are pouncing. >> you don't go with someone who's going to be in a courtroom longer than companying. >> reporter: the same day georgia prosecutors have asked for their election interference trial to start and it's the same day as super tuesday, when more than a dozen states hold their republican primaries. in new york he stands accused of falsifying business records to

cover up an alleged affair. two months after that another case set for his handling of classified documents in florida. mr. trump has denied all wrongdoing, continuing to attack the prosecutors online, while in a courtroom in georgia his former chief of staff took to the witness stand for five hours, mark meadows defending his own actions around the election as he tries to move his case to federal court. >> they want to put him on the stand for a limited purpose, which is, for him to claim he was acting in the scope of his official duties. >> that effort was undercut by secretary of state brad raffensperger, who testified that infamous call he fielded from mr. trump asking for him to find votes in georgia was only about helping the trump campaign. >> joining us now, ryan reilly outside the u.s. district court in washington and former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst

joyce vance. good morning. ryan, you were at the courthouse yesterday. what was the wrangling like inside the courtroom between the judge, prosecutors and trump's defense team over this date that ended up on march 4th? >> reporter: you know, there was a lot of back and forth, but i think the prosecution came prepared and the defense team didn't really have an argument that would convince the judge. obviously the judge let the date slide a little bit that the special counsel requested. they wanted this trial to get under way in december really with jury selection and have the trial start at the very beginning of the year, just before the three-year anniversary of january 6th. it's a pretty big win for prosecutors here. the judge fully set aside any of these political considerations. i don't even know it was clear to her that super tuesday was the day after the trial date she set, but essentially comparing donald trump to a professional athlete and saying if this were

a professional athlete appearing before her, she would not take into consideration their sports schedule and she's not going to take into consideration donald trump's side gig of running for president of the united states here. she says he needs to be in court for these dates no matter what else is going on in his life. >> joyce, this is more than six months until that march 4th date, which i think in any other case you'd say that's plenty of time for a defense team to get ready. what do you make of the choice, which was a little bit later than jack smith wanted and, of course, well before the request by the trump team to have the trial in 2026? >> right. 2026 might as well have been a request to have the trial never. judge chutkan saw straight through that. so trial judges have a lot of discretion when it comes to setting a date for trial.

they have to make sure that a defendant has sufficient time to prepare. and judge chutkan was worried in this hearing yesterday about protecting her record on appeal, so if there is a conviction and trump appeals this trial setting as a denial of his due process rights, the appellate court will be able to see she selected a meaningful and reasonable trial date. she did that by talking in depth about discovery, pointing out that the trump team's estimate of the number of pages was overblown, because there's so much duplication. she talked about their ability to lawyer up and deal with the discovery process. in every way she justified the trial date she selected, there's no reason to believe that a court of appeals won't believe she acted within her discretion in selecting this date. >> should there have been any

consideration of the fact that this comes on the eve of super tuesday? because the case that donald trump and his lawyers have made is this is the biden justice department trying to intervene in the election and prevent donald trump from being reelected. in some ways, it makes his case for him when he says, i should be out campaigning instead of being stuck in a courtroom. do you think the judge thought about that? >> i doubt she did. judges just aren't used to making political calculations. i know that sounds naive and people may have trouble believing that. donald trump is certainly going to make hay out of this and run with it. but judges have a lot of control in their own little fiefdom. there's an analogy here, but

when pat robertson was running for president many years, he filed a civil defamation case and he tried to get the judge to change the trial setting because it coincided with super tuesday. the judge also in the district of columbia told robertson, look, you're in the justice system now, you can either show up or you can dismiss your defamation case. well, trump doesn't have the option of dismissing this case, but like robertson, despite super tuesday, he has to show up when the judge orders him to do so. that is not optional here. >> despite trump's truth social post to the contrary, he doesn't have the ability to appeal the trial date. it could move for other reasons. walk us through the defense team here. next week there will be an arraignment in georgia.

there are so many things on his calendar. how is he building up his legal team? what are the next steps? >> reporter: in this case, there's going to be a lot of pretrial motions. having a date on the calendar really seems to focus the mind and gets things sort of rolling. a lot of these issues he's going to bring up before trial, these broader issues about this case overall, probably his desire to move it out of the district all together, which is certain to be rejected given the universal rejection we've seen of that in other cases, is going to move forward. he's going to motion probably for a change of venue. he's going to say these charges shouldn't be able to be brought forward, probably any sort of pretrial motion he can before this gets to trial. but this gets this process moving, so even if you have a little bit of slippage of the court date in march, you're

still looking somewhere around that range for this trial moving forward. these cases keep moving forward. today we get the proud boys sentencing under way. we'll see the actual sentencings tomorrow and on thursday and friday with enrique tarrio being the first up tomorrow morning. today we go through pre-sentencing motions, sort of the omnibus hearing for these proud boy cases, probably get a sentencing range, might hear some victim impact statements. the justice department is stepping up some of these january 6th cases after a second year of these cases going to trial. there's a lot more arrests coming in from the fbi these days. there really is a step up in a lot of these cases as we go forward. >> a parade of defendants. ryan reilly, thank you. ryan's new book titled "sedition hunters" comes out this october.

we look forward to talking to him about that then. former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you so much as well. some new posts, john. >> to your exact point a moment ago, how trump is trying to weaponize this, he posted on truth social saying these indictments and lawsuits are all part of my political opponent's campaign plan, crooked joe pushes litigation to get it done. and he says this is a new low in presidential politics. to the democrats, i say be careful what you wish for. joe car bro said that too. we're down the path now that he has a concern where some republican prosecutor could file some sort of ridiculous move to indict a democrat president or former president in this case. again, the facts are so clear here. it's one indictment after another and these are done separately. these are not ordered from the white house. these are because of his own actions. >> merrick garland assigned a

special counsel to give himself some distance from it as well. let's bring in sahil kapur. >> reporter: it's a new complication when congress returns next week. they have a month to agree on a government funding deal or face a shutdown. a government shutdown itself would not hinder donald trump's prosecution. the justice department has said that criminal proceedings qualify as essential functions and these essential functions continue even in the event of a funding lapse. trump allies in the house are trying to use government funding legislation to insert provisions that would defund or target the prosecutors that have indicted trump. let's have a look at what some

of them are doing. congressman andrew clyde from georgia is promising to spruce two amendments in appropriations legislation that would block all federal funds going to special counsel jack smith, fulton county d.a. fani willis as well as manhattan d.a. alvin bragg. he makes no bones about the fact this is about their prosecuting donald trump. he wants to eliminate their ability to prosecutor candidates until the 2024 election is done. there's matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene, who call for defunding jack smith. there's jim jordan, who says he wants to restrict politically sense defensive doj investigations and impose limits into how those are conducted. he has also launched an inquiry into fani willis. there's andy biggs who called block federal money to fani willis's office. his posts have been heavily promoted by donald trump on his social media page. trump as all sorts of invective

against the various prosecutors who have secured indictments against him. let's look at what andrew clyde said. he is on the appropriations committee. quote, due to my concerns about these witch hunt indictments against president trump, i intend to offer two amendments to prohibit any federal funds from being used in federal or state courts to prosecute presidential candidates prior to the 2024 election. republicans are divided on this. there are some who don't want to go down this road, who know they have to ultimately cut a deal with the democratic-controlled senate and get a law signed by president biden. there are some who still support the police and don't want to defund federal law enforcement. mccarthy will still have to cut a deal with democrats in the senate and the white house to ultimately make this happen. democrats, as you can imagine, are aggressively pushing back on

this, calling it an attempt to try to defend trump against legitimate legal proceedings. let's show congresswoman rosa delawyer row says. quote, it is shame full that the baseless attacks on law enforcement have made the leap from irresponsible rhetoric into appropriations language. this is simply about the fact that they don't like an independent doj investigating certain individuals. she says, quote, this is naked politicization of our criminal justice system. let another wrench into what is already shaping up to be a very intense battle to keep the government funded. >> when you talk to republicans who favor this legislation or are opposed to this legislation, do they show any concern about obstruction of justice to you? >> reporter: i haven't heard that exact phrasing used. republicans are talking more in the realm of political reality.

some say we don't want to shut down the government. there's going to have to be a deal, be realistic. and some of them say we support law enforcement, which means they don't want to be perceived as obstructing justice. i've not heard any republicans specifically use that phrasing. >> sahil kapur on capitol hill, thank you so much. it's extraordinary. look where donald trump has brought house republicans to a decision of defund the police with the fbi. you have jim jordan at oversight meddling in fani willis's investigation, trying to do the same with alvin bragg in manhattan, all to run interference were donald trump. >> it's the destruction of institutions. that's what they're trying to do, the destruction of doj, fbi, institutions of the rule of law. but ultimately it's just theatrics. you look at all the policy

issues that are so pressing in this country and need to be addressed, and instead you have a certain segment of the republican house focusing on these bills that are going to go absolutely nowhere, and they know that, but they at least get to do it and fund raise off of it. our other top story of the morning through the week, the massive storm churning in the gulf coast. it officially as of this morning is a hurricane. idalia expected to intensify rapidly, could become a powerful category 3 hurricane before it makes landfall in florida's gulf coast tomorrow. 21 million people under hurricane watches. the national weather service is warning idalia could bring life-threatening storm surge and hurricane force winds as well as flood warnings in some areas. official in tallahassee are giving an update on the hurricane. we're listening in and we'll

bring you new details. let's go to meteorologist angie lassman tracking the storm. >> we have seen the winds increasing now to 80 miles per hour. a couple of hours ago i noted how you can start to see the eye a little better. that's improved even more. this system going to continue to get healthier and more organized and moving right now at 14 miles an hour. it's going to speed up through parts of the gulf of mexico, but still has plenty of fuel to tap into. into the early hours tomorrow morning we'll likely see landfall in the big bend area. one thing i want people to take seriously is the storm surge. we've never seen storm surge to this forecast of 8 to 12 feet for places like cedar key.

we'll also see additional storm surge on the eastern side of the system as we get into the next couple of days as it moved over parts of georgia and the carolinas. we of course need the rain in some of these spots across florida. we have severe to extreme droughts in some spots. but not all at once. we could have up to a foot of rain in some places. >> angie, thanks. next on "morning joe," an update on the deadly shooting in jacksonville florida over the weekend, including security video showing the moments leading up to that racially motivated attack. plus, classes cancelled today at the university of north carolina chapel hill after a shooting yesterday claimed the life of a faculty member. imed te life of a faculty member

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classes are cancelled today at the university of north carolina chapel hill following a deadly shooting on campus yesterday. ali vitale has the latest. >> reporter: just one week after classes began at unc chapel hill, a tragedy that's become all too familiar at schools nationwide. >> has a 9 millimeter. >> i'm grieved to report that one of our fculty members was killed in this shooting. >> reporter: the entire campus went on lockdown, warning of an armed, dangerous person on campus. go inside now, avoid windows. officers swarmed the campus.

some students walking down the street with their hands up, some sheltering in place. >> we stayed hiding in thestaut. >> reporter: an elementary school across the road also placed on lockdown. then less than 90 minutes after the ordeal began, a suspect was taken into custody. >> to have the suspect in custody gives us an opportunity to figure out the why and even the how. >> reporter: and four hours after the chaos began, police giving the all-clear, but students left deeply shaken. >> it makes me feel a little bit sick, because this is a situation we shouldn't have to worry about. >> reporter: those who knew the suspect, stunned. >> i would have never guessed he that would be the kind of person who would possibly be capable of this kind of thing. >> that man has been arrested

with first degree murder and possessing a firearm on educational property. that suspect is a doctoral student at the university. we're getting more information about what led up to saturday's racially motivated attack in jacksonville, florida. new surveillance video shows the gunman before he opened fire. plus, a security guard at a nearby college campus is being hailed as a hero for potentially preventing even more death. gabe gutierrez reports. >> reporter: this morning, surveillance video is revealing more of the chilling moments leading up to what authorities say was a racist rampage at a dollar general in jacksonville. surveillance shows the gunman entering a different store, then leaving. he then stops at edward wallace university and puts on a

tactical vest and mask. >> to me, the students are the heros. >> reporter: the shooter, 21-year-old ryan christopher palmeter drives away when bailey approaches his vehicle. did you ever consider not confronting the suspect? >> no, i did not. this is what we signed up for. >> reporter: the university's president says bailey saved lives. >> you, sir, are nothing short of a hero and we honor you today. >> reporter: minutes later the gunman ends up at dollar general where he opens fire in the parking lot, killing angela carr. >> damn, this is unreal. this is so unreal. oh god. >> reporter: carr's daughter ashley says her mother was an uber driver dropping off a passenger. she leaves behind three children and 16 grandchildren. >> she is incredible. i can't put it any other way. >> reporter: jerrald de'shaun

gallion and aj laguerre jr. were murdered inside the store. aj's two brothers. >> i never thought i'd have to bury my little brother. >> we were expecting him to bury us before we had to bury him. >> reporter: the gunman took his own life when law enforcement entered the store, and he had legally purchased the guns he used, which were painted with swastikas. >> gabe gutierrez from jacksonville, florida. next, russia releases rare video from inside a prison camp where paul whelan is being held. senator chris coons joins us with that development and much more. s joins us with that development and much more

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tonight, he is 3 for 5, batting for the sixth time. altuve sends one high, sends one deep, sends one into the boston

night! 13-4. hit number four for jose altuve, and he hits for the cycle. >> a bomb over the monster for the astros' jose altuve completing the first cycle of his career and the first for the astros in a decade with that two-run home run in the eighth. the astros beat the red sox 13-5. the mariners are red hot, hanging onto the top spot. julio rodriguez with four hits, extending his streak to a career best 13 gamed homered for the third game in a row. their 20th win in august, matching the team's most ever in a month with two games still to play. in denver, strange moment. akuhn ya led the braves to a

14-4 win. he was fending off a pair of fans when one ran onto the field to take a selfie before security intervened. then a second fan rushed toward him appearing to make contact with him and knocking him to the ground. he was not injured. there didn't appear to be any mall last. but to run onto the field and take a selfie, it does open the question of how easily can fans get on the field if they have bad intentions? >> that is a worry. he kind of laughed it off afterwards, but you're right. security shouldn't allow that to happen.

akuhn ya has had such a wonderful season and is vying with mookie betts for national mvp. >> it's going to be close. both have incredible numbers. baseball is the only sport where there's no hesitance to do that. football you're not going to go out there because you're going to get tackled. baseball, you can hop right out on there. >> he's fine. let's talk about the mariners though. how good are they? >> their pitching staff is so underrated. >> julio rodriguez set a record for hits over a four-game span. more importantly, he's carried the mariners to the top of the division. >> seattle, texas, houston, that's a great division. we haven't mentioned the a.l. east for good reason. >> let's not. >> imagine how happy dave sims

must be in seattle. >> absolutely. coming up, the biden administration announced the first batch of prescription drugs selected for new price negotiations with medicare. negotiations with medicare

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♪ ♪ start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. ukraine's military says it has retaken a key city on the southeastern front of the fighting. progress in its counteroffensive has been gradual amid entrenched russian positions. ukrainian forces are now on a path toward another key city in the hopes of reaching the sea of azov azov. if successful, it would signal a shift in the dynamics of the war. new video released by a russian state-controlled broadcaster shows for the first time detained american paul whelan in prison. this is an updated video

captured at his prison labor camp shows him working, eating and interacting with other prisoners. he repeatedly told the crew filming him that he cannot answer their questions. joining us is senator chris coons of delaware. he serves as national cochair for president biden's reelection campaign. good morning. good to have you back on the show. that video of paul whelan, the context is that is state video, propaganda video from the russian government. we don't know when it's from. what is your sense of where the negotiation is to get him home? >> these are hard negotiations. the biden administration is determined to work tirelessly to bring home every american unjustly detained overseas. paul whelan certainly is near the top of that list. one thing we are doing in

congress, i have introduced a bipartisan bill in the house and senate that would make sure when americans return from captivity, they don't face unjust fines and fees from the irs for failure to pay their taxes while they were imprisoned. that actually happened to "washington post" journalist who when he returned after more than a year in iranian prison, faced tens of thousands of dollars of irs fines and fees. it seems unimaginable that that's the actual practice and it requires a change to law for us to make sure hostages who are returned don't face that. we also have a bipartisan bill to create a national day and flag remembering those americans being held overseas unjustly that has passed the senate and we hope will pass the house later this year. >> good morning. that certainly seems like common sense legislation to not make people imprisoned overseas not

to have to face fines for unpaid taxes. i want to talk about where things stand with ukraine's counteroffensive. slow progress, but the clock is ticking in this fighting season with a muddy season and a harsh winter on the horizon. where do you think things stand, particularly after prigozhin's death and putin tightening his grip on power? >> prigozhin was killed because putin makes sure that he exacts retribution against anyone who challenges him. there are a number of senior russian military officials who have been taken into custody or disappeared. this is just a long string of putin's opponents who have been assassinated, who have found their way out of seven-storey windows or injected with poison

and died. he has retained control over russia for 20 years bu brutally reigning. prigozhin was very critical of russian military leaders for their failures on the battlefield. i'll remind you that only wagner was able to make progress in the last year. they took the town of bakhmut at a horrible cost of 20,000 dead. without him and his leadership, i wonder whether there will be any progress by russian forces at the same time ukrainians continue to fight fiercely. they've shown great heart and determination. with new training, new equipment and sustained resources from the west, i'm optimistic that their counteroffensive will pick up

steam. >> let's talk about china. an aging population, a young population that is vast and many of them unemployed, an economy that seems to be a bit wobbly. evergrande, one of the largest corporations in the world, may be on the verge of bankruptcy. what is going on in china? >> i think you're right that there are significant economic and demographic challenges within china. their population, as you mentioned, is now going to begin to rapidly age, and they will no longer have the advantage of having one of the fastest-growing economies in the world and one of the youngest workforces in the world. increasingly that will be the case with the continent of africa, not with china. one of president biden's biggest accomplishments on the world stage recently which didn't get the attention it deserved was bringing together president yun

of south korea and prime minister kushida together at camp david. they will meet annually, do greater military exercises annually, deepen our security and economic partnership. it's important president biden continues to lead on the world stage to strengthen and deepen our alliances in the west to confront russia's brutal invasion of ukraine and in the east to make sure we are on a stronger footing in the indo-pacific. the prc under the brutal dictatorship has continued to struggle economically. xi jinping's leadership on the world stage is increasingly challenged by economic and demographic developments at home. >> switching gears a bit, it's the two-year anniversary of our

withdrawal from afghanistan. where do we stand with taking care of those afghans who worked for us, the special immigrant visa system that's so broken. is there any movement? >> thank you so much for asking about that. this is personally important to me and to so many american veterans of our war in afghanistan. there are, as you know, roughly 70,000 afghans who were evacuated from afghanistan who served either directly or indirectly with american troops or in support of our mission and our work there. we have a bipartisan bill the afghan adjustment act. senator klobuchar has been tireless in her efforts to get this passed. i just spent time with senator mullen of oklahoma and thanked him for his willingness to join as one of the bipartisan cosponsors. he shared a story of his personal engagement with efforts

to get american citizens and greencard holders out of afghanistan after the fall. we need to make progress on this. there is opposition from a few republicans, and we are trying to strengthen and broaden the number of cosponsors in the senate and to get a vote on the floor before the end of this year. their two-year humanitarian parole has expired. president biden has extended it. but we owe them nothing less than secure legal status here in the united states that would come from passing the afghan adjustment act. it would require every single afghan evacuated to the united states to come back in for another in-person screening, which once they clear, they would have legal status here in the united states. this is what we did after the war in south vietnam to those who served and supported us in our efforts there. we owe those who served alongside us in afghanistan and the veterans advocating for them

no less than passing this important law. >> you make the point it is the american veterans themselves pushing this. we'll keep an eye on that. i want to ask you in your role as cochair of the biden/harris reelection campaign about some new polling from the a.p. that shows concerns not just nationally among all americans at 77% about joe biden's age, but also among democrats. 7 in 10 democrats have concerned. they think perhaps he is too old to serve another four years. but if you ask them are you going to vote for donald trump, they say, oh gosh no, i'm still going to vote for president biden. how is the campaign going to take this issue head on? >> well, president biden is taking this issue head on by continuing to lead, by continuing to show at home and abroad he is a capable and effective president. we haven't had a seasoned and

capable leader on the world stage in many years. and the contrast between what president biden has done internationally to strengthen our alliances and to put us on a stronger, more capable footing and what inflation reduction act is beginning to have significant impact on the costs your average american family is facing, whether from prescription drugs or insulin, or by combatting climate change. and the bipartisan infrastructure bill and chips and science act, big bipartisan bills signed into law by president biden are showing investment and infrastructure and strong economy where more than 13 million jobs have been created by the private sector, a record for the first two years of any president. so, as joe biden, our president, says himself, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. it seems clear and clear the alternative for republicans will be donald trump.

and i think when you look at their records, there is no comparison. and president biden has earned and deserves re-election. >> i should point out the alternative, donald trump three years younger than joe biden. chris coons, thank you for your time. big news this morning, relief could be in sight for millions of americans struggling with the high cost of prescription drugs. we all feel it. the white house this morning unveiled the first ten prescription drugs that will be subject to new price negotiations with medicare. they include drugs used to prevent blood clotting, to lower blood sugar levels for people with type ii diabetes and treat conditions like heart failure, rheumatoid arthritis, blood cancers and crohns disease. joining us is domestic policy adviser to president biden, neera tandem. thank you for being with us this morning. this is welcome news to people who struggle with the cost of prescription drugs in this country. tell us how you got to this list of ten, which is a first list,

more to come. and also what it means practically for someone as they go out to the drugstore to get what they need. >> yes, we find today a historic day for lowering drug costs. the drugs were selected by hhs and really these are good drugs that have the highest spend, highest expenditure in the medicare program, but these are the first ten drugs and next year there will be 15 more and after that 10 to 15 each year. so, this is really just the beginning of lowering drug costs for seniors and ultimately lowering drug costs for americans. >> neera, this is good news, no doubt about it. we don't mean to make it out to be negative news. but there are people who are going to be very grateful for the reduction in prices of the drugs. many of them senior citizens. and they're going to ask

internally, externally, they're going to think and ask perhaps, why is it that drug companies can raise their prices overnight, within a week, and yet the lowering of our prescription costs, many of them, won't take effect until 2026 when i or somebody else might be dead. >> that's a really important question. and it is because that it has taken so long to get to this day. as you know, people have been advocating, leaders in congress, healthcare advocates, have been advocating for medicare being able to negotiate drug prices for 30 years and president biden is the first president to be able to deliver this. so, this negotiation, it will take place over the next year. and prices will go into effect in 2026. but it will deliver real results for people across these drugs, people who are relying on medication for blood cancer, arthritis, diabetes, these drugs, some of which cost

$14,000 in the united states, that's $6,000 in france, these drugs will be lower in the united states. >> neera, good morning. jonathan lemire. some drugmakers already filed legal challenges to some of this. and one of the arguments is that also that it may hurt the development of new treatments being developed. so, if you could just explain to me what the administration's rational and pushback for that is, how confident are you that you can win in court? >> well, first and foremost, we know that pharma is trying to go to the courts. it is -- they're running to the courts to deliver what they could not get out of congress. basically they want the ability to basically do any price that they can. charge the american people any price that they can get away with. joe biden and the last congress ensured that practice would end. we share the goal of ensuring that we have innovation in the pharmaceutical industry. congressional budget office

looked at this very deeply and found that only one drive in the next ten years would be limited by the inflation reduction act. only one. so this argument that there is an impact and innovation is really a false one and it is a false choice. people who can't afford drugs don't have access to innovation. so essentially we're delivering lower price drugs for people, the plan is to ensure that seniors can get lower prices, but that really any impact on innovation. >> neera, nbc news has a recent report, one in three american hospitals are facing critical drug shortages including chemotherapy drugs and antibiotics. what is the biden administration doing to solve that? >> yes, across several generic drugs we are seeing some shortages, that's why the fda has taken really extraordinary actions to allow other drug

manufacturers to come into our market, approved for safety. we really expanded the ability to get other drugs into the market. we're seeing from our engagement with cancer centers, and pharmacists that those drugs are now coming on to the market, but the shortages are significant and we are ensuring that fda has all the authority to ensure that full supply is in our country. >> domestic policy adviser to president biden, neera tanden with the news today that ten critical drugs will be open to negotiations with medicare. neera, thank you for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> great to be with you. that does it for us this morning. we will be right back here tomorrow morning. lindsey reiser picks up the coverage after a quick final break. er picks up the coverage after a quick final break. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪

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right now on "ana cabrera reports," hurricane idalia taking aim at florida. the storm strengthening overnight and poised to intensify further, potentially into a major hurricane. evacuations now under way in preparation for life threatening storm surge. we'll have the storm's latest track. plus, five hours on the stand, what mark meadows told a georgia court about his former boss donald trump. and terror at unc, students hanging out of windows, trying to escape the gunshots that killed a faculty member. what more we learned about the suspect who is now facing a first degreede