he lived a life of service. lifting up so many people, mentoring so many people. it's a privilege for me to have been his friend and to have learned so much from a man who lived his life with a vocation of service. that wraps up the hour for me. you can reach me on social media. you can watch highlights from today's show online. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," former president trump has entered a not guilty plea in the georgia election interference case, and he waived his right to appear in person at his arraignment in fulton county next week. his former lawyer, rudy giuliani, has been final liable for defaming two georgia election workers by falsely

claiming that they tampered with ballots in 2020 after he refused to turn over required documents in the defamation case by the workers. the mother and daughter saying this confirms there was never any truth to giuliani's claims. he will face a trial to determine how much he will pay them in damages. he will talk to an attorney representing the women. first responders assessing the destruction in northern florida. most roads are cleared. some schools reopened today. senate republican leader mitch mcconnell appears to freeze for the second time in a month, this time more than 30 seconds before aides stepped in. a spokesperson later saying he felt light-headed. i will be joined by gina

raimondo from china. good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. we have breaking news this hour as donald trump entered that not guilty plea to the 13 charges in the georgia election interference indictment. the former president also voluntarily waiving his right to show up for his arraignment. that means we will not see him in a georgia courtroom next week. arraignments for all 19 defendants are scheduled for wednesday in 15-minute increments. several other of the co-defendants have waived their right to appear. let's get right to it with nbc's blayne alexander in atlanta and nbc news senior league correspondent laura jarrett. they made the announcement this past hour. explain what happens next. >> reporter: very brief court filing, a couple of pages. not even full ones at that. i reached out to his georgia attorney to see if he wants to

expand or has any additional statement. he waived his appearance, waived his arraignment appearance scheduled for next wednesday at 9:30 a.m. he put in a not guilty plea. this is not unexpected. we have seen several of his co-defendants do the same thing over the past few days. of course, this answers a lot of questions that we have as to how the next few weeks will play out. we remember, of course, all of the lift that it took to get him down here to have secret service involved. when you talk about moving a former president to a place like a jail, as we saw last week. there had been questions as to whether or not that would need to be repeated. would he come to the courthouse? i understand that even at least from a local perspective, there was a security plan in place in case he needed to come to the courthouse. we know that will not be happening, because he waived that appearance. >> laura jarrett, is this a surprise at all? did the judge have to approve

the waiver? is this automatic? >> it's probably going to be signed off. it makes sense he would do this if he doesn't have to show up. i will say, every time we have gone through this -- now it would have been the fourth arraignment that we have covered together, he does fund-raise off these days. it's interesting he decided to skip this and not go through it. it's a formality. there's nothing that happens there that he has to show up in person. obviously, he will plead not guilty as he has in all the other cases. the next step will really be for the lawyers to get together to figure out a day to come into court. there is the open question about the trial date. that's the big question mark out there is when exactly will this case go to trial? we know it's been set but only as to one of his co-defendants. it has not been officially set as it relates to the former

president. >> in fact, the georgia trial date can conflict with the march 4th date that's been set by jack smith in d.c. and other cases we know that the judge will defer. >> yeah. >> it's getting to be a crowded calendar. >> it's a mess. there's a lot of overlapping dates. it seems at least in some of the cases the judges are actually coordinating. there was a trial date ready to go in new york on the hush money case on the false business records. that state case was set. it was supposed to be the first one in march of next year. the judge in d.c. said i reached out to the judge and decided to go first. we will see whether that one sticks or whether this georgia case will leapfrog over all of them and go first. that will be up to judge mcafee.

>> the judge ruled the judge could bring electronics into the courtroom for non-recording purposes throughout the case. does that give you any signal -- laura, weigh in if you want to -- about cameras? >> reporter: it makes it more convenient to bring our devices inside. we know cameras will be allowed inside. there's a hearing today at 1:00 to determine whether or not additional cameras will be allowed inside. already, a pool camera has been approved. we no that whatever happens in that room, arraignments or whatever on the trial calendar going forward, there will be a camera inside. the question is now, how many and how many outlets will be able to bring them inside? the other thing that i want to weigh in on, as we talk about the calendar the former president is facing, is that this is the kind of complexity you see when you have a case like georgia, that's a sprawling case with 19 defendants. the judge is having to wade his way through a number of motions that are flying fast and furious.

the most recent have been repeated motions to try to sever. you saw that from ken chesebro and sidney powell. when you talk about the calendar, when you talk about when we could see this go to trial, all of that has to be considered as well. >> laura, there have been people who have written -- lawyers like you who have written that she took on too much. her case in georgia is too complex and that you could risk losing everything just by delay. >> it was a strategy call on her part. right? she decided to do the big case and tell the whole story. by using racketeering, she gets to do that. she gets to bring in a lot of other evidence that jack smith decided not to do to try to streamline it. they have different time lines, because as it relates to the federal cases, if, in fact, the

former president was re-elected, he could make the case go away. he would get a new justice department. it could go away. the georgia case, he can't make this go away. fani willis might be in it for a long haul in a different way. >> blayne alexander and laura jarrett, thanks to both of you. on the hook. rudy giuliani will have to pay damages to the georgia election workers who he defamed. we will talk to the head of the organization representing them. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back there 60 seconds. don't go anywhere. this is msnbc. is is msnbc. our b. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence.

(vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. you've evolved. ♪ you've changed. so have we. that's why dove body wash now has 24 hour renewing micro moisture for continuous care. dove body wash. change is beautiful. after weeks of delay and without a trial, a federal judge now says that rudy giuliani is responsible for defaming. the judge entered a default judgment citing giuliani's refusal to comply with standard court orders and turn over

documents. now he will have to face trial to determine how much he must pay the women in damages. it's the most severe sanction a judge can issue in a civil case. he is one of donald trump's co-defendants and now in the fani willis election interference case conceded his statements accusing them of mishandling 2020 ballots were false. >> earlier in the day, tape of the women and one gentleman obviously passing around usb ports as if they are heroin or cocaine. >> what was your mom handing you? >> a ginger mint. >> that, of course, is the alleged defamation, which has been concluded. giuliani's team says he is wrongly accused calling this a weaponization of the justice system where the process is the

punishment. joining me now is ian bossen, executive director of protect democracy, the organization representing the women. thanks for being with us. to say this is a victory is an understatement. we watched -- they were among the most gripping witnesses to the january 6th hearings. they are part of the indictment down in fulton county. they are going to be called there also. they were not public figures. they had their lives turned upside down. do they feel vindicated? >> they absolutely do. this is a huge and resounding victory for them. they are proud of that. they are proud it's a victory for our democracy and our system working. too off. >> announcer: -- too often, the powerful have not been held to

account. they have gotten away with misbehavior. the 2008 financial crisis when americans who were hurt bore the weight of the consequences. that lack of accountability contributes to the loss for the face in democracy. i think if we're going to protect our democracy, we will need moments like this where we are starting to see the powerful held to account. you are seeing in about the former president being indicted through the normal political process. now two average citizens going to court and hold the former president's top lieutenant accountable. the tide is turning. that makes me optimistic. this is a week in which our system is working. that's something we should celebrate. it's worth protecting. >> we are showing stills and seeing them smiling in contrast to the january 6 demeanor that showed the real cost to them in

terms of the defamation. it's reassuring. they showed the human cost. i want to play a portion of the testimony from january 6. >> i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. i gained 60 pounds. i don't do nothing anymore. i don't want to go anywhere. i second guess everything that i do. it's affected my life in a major way. >> of course, rudy giuliani is refusing to concede that his false statements damaged your clients. how is this impacting their lives? >> nobody can fully give back to them what has been taken from them, the ability to live a life

without fear. what they have given us is a model of what it's going to take for us to thrive as a democracy. our founders created a system of government that was not self-executing. they never expected our institutions to protect themselves. they expected the most important words of the constitution were the first three, we the people. we as citizens were going to stand up and protect our democracy if it was going to thrive. i cannot think of two better models of that in the history of this country than these women who volunteered to serve as election workers during a pandemic. then in the face of horrific and racist, vile threats, instead of creeping back and just hiding themselves, as many reasonable people would have done, they decided to stand up and use the tools that our founders gave our citizens to stand up for what's right and to stand up for the rule of law and for accountability. if we're going to survive as a

democracy, we need more like them. we are all going to need to follow their inspiring model. >> in fact, donald trump made those claims about ruby during that infamous phone call with brad raffensperger. listen to how she reacted to being called a professional vote scammer and a hustler by a former president of the united states. >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states target you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american, not to target one. but he targeted me, lady ruby. >> donald trump's false claims are a big part of that fulton county case. right? >> they are. they are related to this case as well, because one of the big upshots of the decision in court this week is that mr. giuliani

conceded liability in this case. the court ruled that he was liable not only on our claim of defamation, but also on our claim of civil conspiracy, that he conspired with donald trump to do this. i know there's not a lot of trump supporters watching the program right now. but probably people watching know them. it might be worth asking them if even donald trump's top lieutenant is being held to account in court for lies about the 2020 election, isn't it time to start considering that maybe donald trump is lying about it too? >> thank you very much, counselor. very good to talk to you. >> thank you so much. after the storm. florida beginning cleanup as we get the first look at the extent of the damage from hurricane idalia. "andrea mitchell reports" continues next only on msnbc. ntc ♪

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florida is in recovery mode from hurricane idalia today. the carolinas are deemare deali flooding and heavy rain. the worst appears to be over after this terrifying moment of idalia flipping a car in goose creek, south carolina, yesterday. in florida this morning, governor desantis saying 40 rescues were conducted. he spoke to president biden, who approved additional federal resources to help with the response. >> there has been significant

damage, particularly along florida's big bend. the community is resilient. and we are going to work lard to make sure people get what they need. >> joining me now is nbc correspondent guad venegas in cedar key, florida. guad, talk about how things are today. what are officials telling you about power back, about temporary housing and the like? >> reporter: andrea, they are working to get the power back in the area. i just spoke to someone from the cellphone company who told me they have towers that have been affected in the area, which is affecting service. not because the towers were damaged themselves, but because the power was lost in the towers. they are working to restore them. this is an inn here in cedar key. you can see one of the main cottages that had an ocean view was completely destroyed. on the ground, you can see the

cinderblocks. i will show you what the inside of the other cottage looks like. from the outside, it looks like they weren't damaged. look at the inside. the surge completely destroyed everything in here. the walls, all of the stuff that was in here got washed out. if you look down over there, there's a microwave, chairs. the owners are here. they have been doing some of the cleanup today. this is jorge and amy, they are telling us what it's like trying to figure out what to do. we have been talking all morning about what are doing to get things back in order. you did have one cottage survive? >> yes. it's ready to be rented. >> reporter: what is your priority as you go through the cleanup process? >> each day we are trying to make a goal. today, we will find out whatever is available in the debris that we can save. we will start trying to clean the office so we can get the

office going. >> reporter: little things that you can save. pots and pans that you found over there. >> yeah. every little bit counts. we don't have to replace it. as we rebuild, we have to replace it in the cottages. if we can save, why not? >> reporter: good luck. >> thank you. >> reporter: that's the account from one of the owners. minutes ago she was hugging one of the neighbors because they are safe, they are all right. of course, it's going to be hard to recover. as the cleanup process continues, they won't be getting tourism that they depend on to have this place running. >> thanks, guad. that's so much of what's happening in the hawaii. the conflict between the economy and, of course, getting people shelter. thank you. joining us now is jarrett moskowitz. it's good to see you. how would you evaluate the response so far? it appears most residents listened, they planned, and they evacuated.

>> yeah. thanks for having me. that's exactly right. i think obviously coming on the heels of a year ago being hurricane ian, a lot of lessons learned. a lot of residents did listen to the evacuations, they did take the storm seriously. it was a category 4 storm. everybody learned the lesson. when the storms get into the gulf, we see them experience rapid intensification. the division of emergency management is one of the best in the country. they are doing what they are great at. they have experience. all of the resources that have been pre-positioned in this area are rushing in to help the residents who have lost everything. >> you have been pushing for more fema funding. the fema administrator has been asking for the same. you have the threat of a government shutdown if you can't agree on a continuing resolution. where does this stand? >> fema has the disaster recovery fund. that's the fund they use to

reimburse all of the cities and towns and people who need individual assistance when they lose their homes. that money comes in. fema has a couple billion dollars left. they got the hawaii disaster, idalia and two months left of hurricane season, not to mention the reimbursement from previous disasters that fema is doing. congress needs to do its job. i have a bill in the house. senator rubio has it in the senate. to refund the disaster recovery fund so fema can help towns not just respond to disaster but recover and rebuild. those bills are not moving. i'm concerned that because congress is not doing its job, emergency managers around the country are worried about how this is going to get done whether there's no funds available. >> stay on that. keep in touch with us as well, please. thank you very much. back from beijing, the

commerce secretary was in china talking business ties and the email hack -- her personal email by china. my conversation with the secretary next coming up on "andrea mitchell reports." you are watching msnbc. nd small, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. ♪i've got home internet from t-mobile.♪ ♪it only costs $50 bucks at t-mobile.♪ ♪just one cord to set up.♪ ♪say goodbye to that truck.♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful mornin'...♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful day...♪ ♪they won't raise your rates at t-mobile...♪ ♪you'll get a great deal every day!♪ home internet from t-mobile... just $50 bucks a month. let innovation refunds help

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david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. gina raimondo is just back from china where she met with both american business leaders and top chinese officials, including premiere. all part of the administration's

effort to reset relations between the world's two largest economies that were frozen after the u.s. shot down the spy balloon in february. i spoke with her moments ago. secretary raimondo, thank you for being here. jet lagged as you must be. first of all, you said your talks in china were candid but constructive, but that export controls -- the ban on export controls is not going to be lifted. that's a non-starter because of national security. lifting that ban is what china wants most. how do you get past that? >> thank you for having me. you put your finger on how complicated and complex this relationship is. but we have to hold the line. i mean, on matters of national security, particularly things like artificial intelligence, semiconductors, which we are way ahead of china, and they want in order to expand and improve their military, there can be no

room for compromise. that being said, we have a $700 billion economic relationship. only 1% of that is affected by export controls. even semiconductors. we will continue to ship them billions of dollars of semiconductors. there's plenty of business to be done. on the narrow area of emerging technology that they have said -- they have a civil military fusion strategy. they are clear about their intention. they are trying to get this technology to improve their military. we have to do everything in our power to prevent that. >> you met with many american business leaders there, boeing, disney. american business members are saying, china is uninvestible because it's too risky. did china give you any promises that they would stop raiding american companies, slapping people with espionage charges? >> you know, actions will tell.

they said all the right things. they said that they wanted to have a predictable environment, due process around regulations. in fact, the premiere and vice premiere with which i met put out a 24-point plan to attract u.s. investors. but talk is cheap. right? that's what i said to them. i said that we need to see action. u.s. businesses have an appetite to do business there. but only if it's predictable, if there's a level playing field, and if they feel like they will get a fair shake as it relate to regulations. so many businesses with whom i spoke said, just tell us the rules. we will follow the rules. what are the rules? i pulled no punches in my meetings. they said the right things, and now we will see how they react. >> you said that your biggest achievement was opening lines of

communication. working groups, something that we did not get from other cabinet level meetings, including secretary blinken. lines of communication are important on trade. they are critically important on military. there's no military to military channel of communication, there's no hotline. >> yeah. it's a huge problem that you point out. it's a huge problem. you know, i keep reminding people, we have to put this in context. i'm the first u.s. commerce secretary to be on the ground in china in more than five years. some people are saying, what's the big deal? you opened official communication. it's a huge deal. i talked to probably 120 business leaders myself before going to china across a range of industries in the u.s. i said to them, what do you need? what's productive? every one of them said, we are desperate for a channel of communication where we can have candid dialogue to resolve issues. the other thing, andrea, as you

know so well, better than most, lack of communication increases the chances of miscalculation, increased tension, missed assessment. the chinese said that to me when i was there. they said, they don't want misassessment and m miscalculation. i'm going to put my back into getting the most out of the dialogues as i can. >> how do you trust them? you raised the issue that your unclassified emails were hacked by china. you raised it with them. how did they respond? >> with feigned surprise. i was clear. how can we build trust with instances like this? trust is hard. you know, trust is hard. i think we have to be eyes wide open. but we have to be practical. i think that there are things we can do. we have to be pragmatic about it. we just -- we can do both at the

same time. we can promote our business interests and trade and have commerce in practical ways and also be as firm as ever on our national security. >> nbc news is reporting today that there is now no expectation of formal talks or even sidebar talks between xi and biden next week in india. what about expectations that they might get together -- which has been expected -- in november with president xi expected to come to san francisco for another summit, an apec summit? >> we hope so. it's a good opportunity. president biden has done a magnificent job through his career in developing a great relationship -- or a productive relationship with president xi. i have no doubt if he were to come, it would be productive. i invited my counterpart to

spend -- for us to have time together. i think that will happen. in fact, i said we should have more informal communication, not just in the formal dialogue. a step at a time. a step at a time. >> for your counterpart to visit? >> yes, in november. hopefully, he and i can share a meal and continue our discussion when he comes. >> thanks very much for being with us. >> thank you. >> especially after just getting back from china. >> thank you. in south africa, a devastating apartment building fire in the heart of johannesburg has killed at least 73 people. the nighttime fire ripping through the high-rise which had been occupied by homeless people and squatters. gates were locked with no escape for these people. victims were jumping, officials say, throwing themselves out of windows to escape the flames. seven of the victims were children. the youngest just a year old. a health scare today -- or yesterday for the second time in

more than a month. the most powerful republican in the senate freezing in public. the latest on senator mcconnell's health and the questions being raised. that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. tchec setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed.

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minute. >> we will go back to reporting on mitch mcconnell in a moment. we have breaking news from washington from the courthouse where a judge has just sentenced members of the far right group the proud boys after their conviction on seditious conspiracy charges. ryan reilly is outside the courthouse. what have you got? >> reporter: joe biggs has been sentenced to 17 years in federal prison. the second longest sentence of any january 6 defendant. the range was 27 to 33 years. prosecutors requested 33 years in federal prison for joe biggs saying he was a leader of this violent attack on the u.s. capitol. i'm showing images of him leading the mob towards the capitol. he made it on the floor. was in the gallery of the u.s. senate during the attack and

celebrated this saying that january 6 was a day that would live in infamy. he spoke before his sentencing, asking the judge to show mercy on him, crying, talking about list daughter and his desire to continue to play a part in his daughter's life saying that his daughter had been molested and he wants to be there for her to be able to pick her up from school. ultimately, that probably isn't in the cards for joe biggs. that's 17 years in federal prison. short of what prosecutors wanted here, but still a significant amount of time behind bars, even with credit for time served as well as good time, that's going to leave him with more than a decade to go in federal prison. his release date would roughly be somewhere in the mid 2030s. joe biggs will be going away for a long time. that's unless donald trump is re-elected and ultimately does what he says he is going to do, which is pardon or roll back a

lot of the sentences of january 6 defendants today. >> what could this p mean for other proud boys? >> reporter: he is probably the second most exposure here. they wanted 33 years for him and enrique tarrio. he was supposed to be sentenced yesterday. judge kelly was sick. that sentencing has been delayed until tuesday. this afternoon, we are expecting a sentencing of zachary reel. the government requested 30 years for him. he is a philly proud boy. he was head of the philly chapter. was caught on camera by sleuths spraying cops during the attack. that was something they missed but sleuths were able to pick up. that direct assault could factor in for the judge ultimately here. i think overall, we are probably going to see sentences

significantly below what the government wanted here, at least for joe biggs. that could be different for tarrio. tarrio wasn't on the grounds of the capitol on january 6. was actually in baltimore. we will see on tuesday how that factors into the judge's decision. there are two additional sentences set for friday, including for dominic pizola. the government requested 20 years in prison. he is seen with the shield smashing in the window during the first break-in. he was not convicted of the seditious conspiracy charge, unlike the four other defendants. >> ryan reilly, thank you very much with that breaking news. we want to return to the alarming incident with mitch mcconnell. the 81-year-old unresponsive for 37 seconds. a spokesperson saying the leader felt light-headed and paused. an aide saying he feels fine.

he will be consulting a physician prior to his next event. joining us now, ali vitali and charlie sykes. represent tim banks running for the senate from indiana. he tweeted a picture sitting with mitch i look forward to working with him on issues confronting our bordering states. republicans circling the wagons. what's the level of concern about his health? >> reporter: you have to imagine that it's high, andrea, especially the fact that this is not the first time we have seen the leader in this position. before the senate went on the august recess, we saw the top republican freeze in similar fashion before reporters. he ultimately was able to come back and continue with a q&a. the explanation from aides was similar to what we are getting

now, which is that -- the first time this happened, he felt a moment of dizziness. they say it was a moment of light-headedness. similar to what we heard yesterday, that would he would consult a physician. that's what they told us the last time. there have been few details from the leader himself when he has been asked about this by the press corps and also from his staff about what is going on with his health at this point. the more times that we see this happen, not only is it difficult to watch, but it also spurs questions about transparency and if he is able to continue doing this work, especially at a high stakes time. you and i know this well. we are really in for it september when it comes to the funding fight brewing here on capitol hill. september 30th is the deadline. what could become a government shutdown. mcconnell is one of the key lawmakers in the room alongside mccarthy. these questions will dog him there. >> in fact, he just pushed back yesterday against mccarthy's bottom line on the funding.

he is taking an independent stance that the senate has independent of the house republicans. charlie, this is painful to watch. i covered him for many decades. it's painful to watch. but it does raise issues about health and age and competence for a key player. it can't be comfortable for the white house with all of the polling recently showing that -- widespread concern about the president's health. >> it is very painful to watch this. it's alarming. you hope there are people around him who will get him the best medical care. to your point, mitch mcconnell is one most consequential, powerful members of the united states senate. this is a reminder how fragile power can be. this is one of the moment u.s. -- moments you step back and you think you know what will

happen in american politics. when you have figures with health problems, the unexpected is always there. i hope people react with compassion. this is a warning shot that when you have people who have health problems and who have decided not to step aside, there can be these kinds of difficulties. i hope the people react with restraint to this, but we don't live in an age of nuance, restraint or compassion. do we? >> hardly. ali vitali, charlie sykes, thanks. a sensitive subject but a difficult one. thank you. supreme court justice clarence thomas today has officially disclosed the trip that were paid for by billionaire republican donor harlan crow. it follows reporting about the

lavish trips and gifts, including trips by private jets. he said he accepted a trip last year because of security concerns. alito disclosing trips paid by for duke law school and and not law. the disclosures come amid increased scrutiny over the lack of oversight for the supreme court and a drop in public confidence. and fighting words while on the campaign trail, former vice president mike pence keeping up his attacks on political new comer vivek ramaswamy. this is msnbc. ramaswamy. this is msnbc.

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hopeful mike pence, the former vice president ramping up his attacks against rival vivek ramaswamy. not mincing words, pence calling ramaswamy a rookie, ramaswamy calling pence a super pac puppet. at least it's alittertive. >> there are two preconditions for the health of our constitutional republic, one is the peaceful transition of power. the other is public confidence in our elections, and when those come into conflict, that was a rare opportunity for heroism that i think mike pence missed. >> joining me now are republican strategist susan del percio and jennifer palmieri, former communications director for the obama white house and also for the hillary clinton campaign, and jen is co-host and producer of show-time's the circus. first to you, there's a new poll from the economist and ugov

showing 31% of republicans say ramaswamy won last week's debate, and he still trails nine points behind desantis, 46 points behind donald trump, of course, but what does pence's focus on ramaswamy mean to you? who does it help? >> well, he's going after ramaswamy because it gives him a chance to kind of go after the front runner that's most similar to trump without having to attack trump. it's also -- i haven't seen mike pence get this kind of press attention since the campaign started. so it is smart to raise his profile and also show that ramaswamy, the only candidate who's not a governor, former governor, senator, former senator on the debate stage. it's a way of showing his novice and really his inexperience. >> and jennifer, there's been so much talk about disqualifying donald trump from seeking re-election under the 14th

amendment. new hampshire, arizona, other secretaries of state looking to do that. we've heard from distinguished jurists and professors like larry tribe for quite some time that that is constitutionally valid, their view would have to be litigated, those efforts could backfire saying that the gambit sure looks like a way to short circuit republican voters, and if trump gets another shot at the white house, would voters stand for it. the 14th amendment says no one should hold any office who engages in insurrection. you know, against the united states or gives aid thereof. actually, donald trump is not charged with insurrection. >> this is -- you know, i've done some -- i've done a little bit of reading, research, and talked to some of my legal friends, many of whom appear on this very network about what do we make of this argument. i have a concern about it as you

raised, andrea, that you know, what this would mean -- how this would work would be a secretary of state in a state could say he doesn't qualify for the battle because they have determined that his actions on january 6th amounted to -- they're in violation of the constitution, therefore under the 14th amendment he has disqualified himself from being a candidate. the secretary of state could make that determination and either trump would not appear on the ballot or someone in the state could sue the secretary of state for doing so saying that, you know, that he belongs on the ballot. i think that, you know, it's best in america when voters decide these matters. it is also true, however, that, you know, there's a very strong legal case we made that this was what was intended under our constitution, and what are elections about fundamentally if they're not also about upholding the constitution. it's still, you know, i think politically it's dicey to pursue

this as a means of defeating trump because i think that there could be a pretty big backlash to it. early days people still trying to suss this out, i know arizona's looking at it, i've seen some reporting in michigan, someone in michigan may sue the secretary of state if she does put trump on the ballot, but it's -- you know, i think it's still tough to know like what i think the backlash from trump voters could be. this is a tricky one to navigate, but the chances are someone will do this, somebody will bring this lawsuit saying that trump should not be on ballots and that's going to be a really -- that's a big deal if we figure that out for the election. >> add to the list of things involving donald trump's candidacy that courts will have to sort out. >> and susan, there is reporting also that trump's team is worried about nikki haley surging in iowa after that debate. she had a good performance,

donors are watching her, looking at her, and maybe contributing we'll know more when the quarter's up, right? >> yeah, and he should be worried about her. she showed that she was about governance. she used words like consensus. she talked about being honest with the american public. those are two things donald trump and a lot of those other candidates on stage know nothing about, so her -- she could potentially go there. it's just -- it's a little too early to tell if she's going to really rise in the polls and give trump a true challenge. >> and you know, there's a real concern, i think, among some democrats, biden supporters that she could be a very effective candidate against joe biden. >> just maybe, but the idea that nikki haley is going to become the nominee, i think, is -- i

think the chances of that are extremely low. one thing where she really stood out on the debate. the clip we all saw was her saying to ramaswamy you don't have any experience and it shows. what was effective when she said you're supporting putin, and he's a murderer. cutting through kind of the establishment versus the disruption lane that trump and ramaswamy are in. she just like called it out on values and i think that's something that she should build on. >> jen palmieri, susan del percio, thanks so both of you. before we go, it was a milestone in lincoln, nebraska, where the cornhuskers set a world record for attendance at a women's sporting event yesterday, 92,003 fans gathered at memorial stadium to watch the school's five-time ncaa champion volleyball team who went to beat

omaha by three sets to nothing. go cornhuskers, go ladies, that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. donald trump is skipping a chance to appear before tv cameras, telling the court he'll waive his right to show up in person for an arraignment before a judge in georgia as part of a not guilty plea he entered just this morning. another judge absolutely shredding the arguments of trump's former lawyer rudy giuliani for defaming two georgia election workers. next up, punitive damages for the admitted lies he told, even as he insists he's too poor to pay. plus, hurricane idalia is just the latest in a string of multibillion dollar disasters hitting the u.s.t