when i say hear hear, coco. we appreciate you. you are to be celebrated. you know what, cheers to that. thanks so much for watching folks, symone, on this saturday, so much news. i'm symone sanders-townsend. you can catch me right here on msnbc weekends at four pm eastern anytime over on the peacock. where i have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday. politics nation with the great reverend al sharpton starts now. rev, okay, big show, you have republican presidential candidate, vivek ramaswamy, on the show. are you going to play that clip for him of when he was 18 trying to get you asking a question at a harvard forum? >> yeah. i was running for president in 2003 for the 2004 nomination. i did hardball with chris matthews at harvard as a presidential candidate. this 18-year-old young man came up and asked me a question. now he's running for president. i've got some questions i want

to ask him about that, and other things. so he will be with us in a minute. thank you, symone i. love that white on you tonight, by the way. i fabulous, i symone. let me go into, it good evening and welcome to politicsnation. tonight's lead political swirl. president biden is in florida right now, touring the damage caused by hurricane idalia. the his potential rival for the presidency, florida governor, ron desantis, decided he had no need to meet with the president today. all that, while a brand-new poll conducted among gop primary voters, after the latest gop debate, and mostly after the news of donald trump's mugshot, shows desantis is a whopping 46 points behind

the league. the leader, who has, you guessed it, former president donald trump. in a moment, i will talk to one of the candidates on that list, who is running against trump. yet, has only nice things to say about the twice impeached four times indicted former president, who basically tried to illegally stay in power, after losing the 2020 presidential election. trump, by the way, has entered his fourth not guilty plea, telling the court he will not be appearing in person for his arraignment in georgia, next week. it was just one week ago, i that a white man wearing a mask and firing a weapon emblazoned with a swastika, gunned down three black people in a racist attack in jacksonville, florida. the shooter who had also posted racist writings then killed

himself. now, i'm calling on the next white house hate crimes summit to be held in florida. and it is time to face this issue head on. face thi before we get to politics, president biden is right now touring some of the damaged areas that were hit by the hurricane in florida, earlier this week. joining me now is nbc's full -- he is in -- he's live in oak, florida. >> our, we are in live oak. this is the area that the president visited. just minutes ago, we saw the helicopters fly over. we believe he's now headed to gainesville where he landed on the air force one earlier today. so there was a lot of talk about the president making his way to florida, the areas most affected by the hurricane. earlier, the president indicated that he would meet with ron desantis. then the office of the governor

said, the governor did not plan to meet with the president, noting that the presidents visit to the area would interfere with the recovery process. but today, federal authorities indicated that president biden decided to come here to live oak because this is a larger community, where the recovery has begun. where the roads have been cleared. it would be much easier to have all the logistics setup in an area like this one for a presidential visit. now, the president did we meet with republican senator, rick scott, together, they say that they are going to bring in the help needed for the people of florida. this is a community that is a little inland. we have different types of damage, because of the storm. you look at the most affected areas like horseshoe beach. these areas by the water, these areas have homes that were affected by the wind, affected by the storm. also by that storm surge so the water caused a lot more damage. where is when you look at other communities like this one, you see damage like the house behind me.

this is a house that had a tree fall over it. earlier today, we were here when crews were taking the tree, removing it from the roof. they chopped it into pieces. here's what's interesting. we can have an idea of what the residents were going through right now. the owner of this house spoke to us, stephen, he said he had to pay money out of his pocket for now to remove that tree from the roof. he spent the last two days calling companies. finally he was able to get a company to charge him 20 $500 just to remove the tree. that's before he begins all of the cleanup process inside of the home before he gets all of the help that he's expecting to get through fema. this is just one of the homes that is dealing with that recovery. the president did visit some structures in the area with similar damage and of course we have all sorts of destruction. we have other homes that were affected by the surge that have to replace everything in the interior. of course, there's the damage to the power infrastructure, al. you can see powerlines right here. you can see a utility pole that was affected. this is something that we've seen all across the region look

authorities -- >> it's good to be very expensive. you just pointed out, for a lot of people. to even try and restore after the damage, it was good. the president put a focus on this. but thank you, nbc's guad venegas, reporting from florida. thank you for being with us. joining me now is florida congresswoman, frederica wilson, a democrat. congresswoman, welcome to politicsnation, again, i have a lot to discuss with you. but first, give our viewers a sense of the damage and the recovery efforts in the state of florida after the hurricane this past weekend. i understand that your district of northern miami was mostly spared from major damage. >> yes, it was mostly spared. thanks for having me on today, reverend al. my heart is with the people of florida who were impacted by this hurricane.

250,000 people lost power. they still are without any. flooding raged across florida, and florida's big bend, that's up in the north, we call the big bend, if you remember, i took him into paris florida. in 2000. when that was so segregated and they were making people come through the back of a lounge in the grocery store was separated. and the restaurants were sucker gated. well, the storm hit perry florida. >> when i saw you in paris, i remember when you brought me to a lounge where they were making blacks go through the back door, for you and i to lead a protest to come in the front door right there in paris, florida. i remember that this week. certainly our hearts go out to everybody. but let me go to another story in florida, because we only

have you for a few minutes. i want to be able to get as much in when we have you on. following the racially motivated shooting in jacksonville, florida, last week. that claimed the lives of three innocent black floridians. i called on president biden when we met with him after the big march, that you are part of last saturday. i called on president biden, along with others among -- along with king the third, andrea waters king, and jonathan of the green black of the anti-defamation league. told the next summit on hate crimes in florida. i must ask you, do you see this as an issue, the shooting in jacksonville? as an issue of racism, of gun control, or both? >> i see it as an issue of both. and white supremacy is a live and well in florida. it goes unchecked from the rest

of america. i do believe that if we are going to have a summit, let's invite everyone, reverend al, the disrespect of black people has reached a tipping point in this country. and as time for all of us to declare a state of emergency. because when you preach racism, you preach hate, and division from the highest level. it ignites the demons and the hearts and minds of racist bigots. they act on those sentiments. and kill black people. so we have to do something. just as weekly came out that 22 hate crimes were up 10%, antisemitism, everything is up. yes, let's have a summit. >> now, what else can be done, legislatively, legally, to control this poison of white supremacy in this ongoing racial prejudice that is being fueled, nationwide? this divisive rhetoric that

ignites hatred, and empowers those with violent intent. what else can we do, congresswoman? >> well, one thing we need to do is make sure that all of our states are teaching african american history. now, i'm kind of pistol of, reverend, because i am the person who wrote and helped write, i want to say, the curriculum for african american history in the state of florida. i didn't stop there. i put it in the textbooks of the state of florida. but there are only 12 states that mandate the teaching of african american history. i think, when people learn about each other, they respect each other. and they are not teaching it the way they should in florida. but we are going to keep fighting, and we are going to make manny diaz and desantis fix our african american history the way it was written, from the very beginning. we are going to make sure that

it goes back, and we are going to make sure that people -- we need to do something with this gun violence. we need to do something with a gun violence. >> this past monday, together with the king family and other civil rights leaders, i went to meet with president biden and vice president harris, at the white house. on the actual day of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington, the march organizers were invited to meet as president kennedy met with the march organizers in 63, not all of the civil rights leaders, the march organizers in both. i was there, obviously, as head of the national action network. two days earlier, we held the 60th anniversary march. we were clear that this was a continuation, not a commemoration, of the work that dr. king started. during the meeting, president biden also pushed back against efforts in some states to ban books and shape what is taught about the nation's history.

we start a new school year, as we started, what are you doing to fight back this push by florida governor desantis to really control what he is calling too woke, in light of your work in putting a lot of things into the educational curriculum there in florida? e educationa curr>> well, let me say this. we have to give mr. desantis credit, because what he did was he woke up america. he woke up african-american people across this country, to know and understand that african american history has been put on the backburner. and it is not just in florida. we have been to have a mandate, and that's why we have a curriculum. so what i am going to do, in congress, is make sure that every state has a curriculum that african american history, and that it is being taught, and has been replaced by

coating computers, all of the other things that the children are more interested in than african american history. but when mr. desantis came out about slavery, and how it benefited african american people, well, he woke up the nation. so he is talking about woke, we are really woke. now we are going to fight and fight, and we are going to make sure that every single person across this nation knows that african american people built this nation. we carry that on our shoulders. we built the white house. we built the capital. we built the washington monument. we built this nation. and i am just so disturbed. i don't want to keep saying it, but i am kissed. you know i'm ready to fight. >> i've seen you that way many times. usually, change follows when you get that way. thank you very much, congresswoman, frederica wilson

they're, of florida. coming up, 20 years ago, i ran for president. and was asked a very good question by a very enthusiastic young man. today, he's the one running for the white house. i get to ask the questions, after the break. but first, my colleague, richard lui, with today's top news stories. richard. >> we have a very good saturday to. the beloved singer songwriter, jimmy buffett, has died at 76. his website saying he passed peacefully. it did not say where or cause of death, two sources telling nbc news, buffett was battling cancer. and former new mexico governor, bill richardson, has also died at the age of 75. richardson center said he passed away peacefully and his sleep, in his long political career, richardson served as u.s. ambassador to the united nations and secretary of energy under president bill clinton. he was a dominant latino american voice for decades. and the federal aviation administration predicting this

labor day will be the third busiest holiday weekend of the year, so far. thursday figured to be the biggest day in u.s. air in history as well. over 50,000 flights were scheduled for holiday travel, these three days. more politicsnation with reverend al sharpton for you, right after this break. ...the massage chair at the mall. but...he wasn't. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze.

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politicsnation. according to a brand-new wall street journal poll out today, that was conducted entirely after the first republican presidential debate, and mostly after the release of donald trump's fulton county mugshot, the former president holds a whopping 46 point lead over florida governor, ron desantis. among gop primary voters. 59 to 13%. my next guest is also somewhere on that list. but with must let -- much less to support, with 5%.

joining me now is 2024 presidential candidate, vivek ramaswamy. first of all, thank you for being here. and engaging us in this conversation. let me, i want to start with comments you made, repeatedly now, referring to massachusetts congresswoman, a ana pressley, and author, ibrahim kindly, as grand wizards of the modern kkk. i understand you dealt with both of them politically, and probably with me. but as a graduate of harvard and yale university's, i believe you must be aware, the ku klux klan is not a political party. it's a terrorist organization. -- behind lynchings of blacks in the american south, more than 4000 people murdered from 1877 to 1950. and the group is linked to numerous other acts of racial violence continuing through the

civil rights movement to the present day. you are running to be the leader of the free world, so your choice of words matter. have you taken any time to reflect upon the possibility that comparing your political rivals to murderous terrorists might put their lives in danger, at a time when hate crimes are i highest? or do you just don't care? >> reverend sharpton, i don't look at the world through a political party. frankly, it's good to see it's been 20 years since we last spoke. part of the reason i came to that event 20 years ago with you is that you are a political outsider, just like i am in my own party. but let me talk about the issue you are actually asking about. which is that, you know what's toxic about that old world view of organizations like the kkk? which have been an awful stain on our nation will history. they say that your skin color determines what you are allowed to say, what you are allowed to think. to say you have to shut up, sit down, and do as you are told because you are black or brown skinned.

well you know what? ayanna pressley said, much more recently, we don't want any more black faces that don't want to be a black voice. we don't want any more brown faces that don't want to be a brown voice. so yes, i do think there are echoes of a historical ugly racism in this country. now showing up in new clothing. -- >> wait, just a second. to say that we do not want voices, to say that is not going with sheets and burning crosses and lynching people. if she said something you disagree with, you cannot equate grand wizard of the ku klux klan, with somebody saying something that you think is a little controversial, a little too far. some of our relatives were terrorized by the ku klux klan. i'm trying to get you to understand the pain of. that >> you're intellectually honest. i will remind you, hakeem

jeffries, drew analogies between donald trump and the ku klux klan. i don't think you had him on, pressing him in the same way. so we are drawing analogies here. -- >> he did not call donald trump the grand dragon of the kkk. he did not call donald trump to the modern kkk. let's not change what was said. >> reverend sharpton though, i'm calling out a double standard, in saying that certain people can use certain analogies to make a point, well, i'm using an analogy to make a point. the point i'm making is we should stop seeing each other on the basis of our skin color. it was god awful when the kkk did it. but you know what? we have to learn a lesson in the present, that we are creating more racial division in this country. >> but you cannot do it by being being insensitive to -- that's like calling someone of any kind of group that had a group that were terrorizing, i

think we need to be very careful about that. i want to raise that with you directly. let me go to my next point. i want to get to your conversation. but i want to ask you a couple of questions. one thing, if you talk -- you mentioned we talked 20 years ago, i want to get to that. but you should've known 20 years ago, you are not talking. tommy let me ask my question, i'll let you talk. >> it goes both ways. >> you spoken out against affirmative action in diversity programs, even though it is a reporting in axios and elsewhere, have produced evidence your own former company has been involved in various dei and esg admission of. your own company. dei, diversity. i would hope we can agree that historically, many communities of color have not enjoyed the same socioeconomic benefits as white americans. and many of those disparities

persist to this day. what specifically would you do as president to address that problem, keeping in mind your own company got diversity business? >> i want to be very clear about that, after i stepped down as ceo, precisely to speak my mind freely, the company that i founded went the direction of most companies in corporate america. i disagree with that decision. but you are asking a more important question about what are we going to do to ensure equality of opportunity in this country. you are right, we have been an imperfect nation. i've always said it. but we aspire towards perfection. how do we go that next step? i want to make sure kids aren't trapped in the ghetto of a zip code that they have been to be born in. to the contrary, i think every parent deserves to have the opportunity to send their kids to the best possible school. that is why i favor radical school choice in this country. i think it's a mystery, reverend sharpton, there are people who will wax eloquent about systemic racism, are also

the ones who are opposed to educational mobility. that's why i've said, shut down the u.s. department of education. use that 80 billion dollars, put it in the hands of parents. so they can actually send their kids to that best possible school, they can. that's the actual civil rights issue of our time. i stand for solutions, -- >> i did not go to harvard, but i know when a question is not answered. i did not ask you about education. i asked you about diversity in a business, i asked you about a company you had getting dei. how do we deal with the lack -- weight a minute. let me ask the question again. how do we deal with the economic disparity in businesses of color, and people of color, in the economic arena. you ran the school choice, good duck, wrong show. deal with the economics. >> it's actually related. i know you are smarter than

this to know that education leads to economic prosperity. there is no band-aid fix. >> but after your educated, we have educated people that can't get contracts. we have educated people that have no problem with being educated, and can't get contracts. how do you deal with the inequality, and how they do business in this country? how they get jobs. that's where a dei program comes from. >> i understand where they come from. i'm against it because it causes us to see one another on the basis of our skin color. i can tell you from personal experience, i have hired both in businesses i founded, even in this campaign, people who are black executives, who i think have been unfairly judged. i put them in those positions because of merit. other people at the companies and otherwise have seen those people as getting that position because of racial quota systems. >> all right. >> that is wrong, no matter whether you are black or white. color blind meritocracy. that's what we need in this country. that's how i lead the companies

are built. >> there were many, as you know, many of them were barred and had the merits. since you talked about experience, i need to show you this tape. back in 2003, when i ran for president, you were there to ask me a question at a forum i was doing at harvard university. so, 20 years later, now my turn to ask you. let me first play use the tape of you and i 20 years ago. >> let's go to another question. >> reverend sharpton, i'm vivek, i want to ask you, last week on the show we had senator carry, -- my question for you is of all the democratic candidates out there, why should i vote for the one with the least political experience? >> well, you shouldn't. i have the most political experience. i got involved in the political most meant when i was 12 years

old. and i've been involved in social policy for the last 30 years. so don't confuse people that have a job with political experience. >> so 20 years later, now my turn to ask you. of all the republican candidates out there, why should someone vote for you, the one with the least political experience, and on my dad, you've never held office? you've only voted twice in the last few elections. you don't even vote, regularly. and, you support donald trump, who never held office until he was president. what are you putting a different standard on me? i won't even make the racial application there. why should we vote for you? >> listen, at the age of 18, i think you persuaded me on that one, that political experience is not the same is holding office. to tell you the truth, when i came out there i was intrigued. >> i'm gonna put out right-wing press that sharpton converted a young, i do want to take credit

for you. >> i'm going to tell you the truth. one of the, things all even give you one more for you. you are the only anti war candidate back then. i was against the iraq war. as i recall, you are the only anti war candidate in either party. guess what? tables turned now. i'm the only true anti war candidate in either political party now, when it comes to ukraine. i believe in america first policies. i think this ukraine war does not advance american interest. i was the only person with the courage to say that on the republican debate stage last week. the real war i would take on is the war against the administrative state. the shadow government here at home. i think the people who we elect to run the government, once again, ought to be the people who actually run the government. not the cancerous bureaucrats in washington d.c.. i'll have a 75% head count reduction for all of the people who weren't elected in washington d.c.. so this is a very different vision than you hear amongst traditional democrats, for sure. but even amongst traditional

republicans, i want to shut down the administrative state, i want to declare independence from china, i want to grow our economy by drilling and fracking and embracing energy. and i want to revive national pride in this country. that's not a republican ideal or democratic vision, it is a pro american vision. that's what i stand for, and why i'm in the race. >> i would take issue that when i opposed war in iraq, they're going for weapons of mass destruction, i ended up being right. you can't compare that to the united states supporting ukraine defending itself against russia. -- >> look, i think there's a myth that ukraine is actually -- i was against the iraq war then. i'm consistent now. ukraine is not some democracy that we've now tainted it to be. i think this is a regime. >> you claim it's an intensive place for the united states -- you >> i think i respectfully disagree with you. >> you claim it's a strategic place -- all, right we can agree to disagree there. let me go to this. we disagree. we disagree on that.

we disagree, respectfully, on that. nbc is reporting that you were once a recipient of a fellowship for immigrants and children of immigrants, from the soros foundation. you are awarded the fellowship in 2011, to support your studies at yale law school. and the issue is that you, the child of indian immigrants, are now accusing some immigrants of carrying out an invasion of the united states. and that as president, you would make it more difficult for children of immigrants born here to participate in the political process. explain how you enjoyed from, it that you shop to and convinced you could run for president, soros helped you through college. >> come on. you know what's really kind of funny about this? that you draw a distinction between legal and illegal emigrants like it doesn't exist. i think that's a major problem in this country. i think we need to use our own

military to secure our own southern border. not an armed invasion across someone else is random border. but across our own border right here in the united states of america. i stand for that. i believe in the rule of law. my parents came to this country legally, through the front door. follow the rules, pay their taxes. raised two kids, both of us went on to found companies that helped thousands of americans. but that also means that your first act of entering this country cannot break the law. that is part of what it means to be an american, we believe in the rule of law. yes i want to end -- >> you're saying you have no problem with helping -- you have no problem with helping those immigrants that come here and follow the law, and become citizens? >> i want to help every legal citizen of this country. that's what america first means. putting every american first. see how i run this campaign, it's very different. a go on to the south side of chicago, to kensington in the

middle of philadelphia. i haven't called zelenskyy, but i have called people in west mally. america first means every american. you have to enter this country legally, not illegally. >> let me ask you this, you say we run the country with a nation of laws, and that we are the founders of the laws. then how can you in your college stand on the debate stage and say that you would endorse and support for president a man, if he was convicted of breaking the law in a felony, in donald trump? how can you say i will put a convict back in the white house? and you say that supporting the law. >> the way the constitutions and the laws of this country war, first of, all i'm running to be the next president. i expect to be the next president because i want to reunite this country in a way that the badly needed. i have made a pledge to be on that debate stage. i intend to keep. it because i think the way we do things in the united states of america is that the people of this country get to decide who governs. not to the administrative police state. so for better or worse, if it's

a guy i disagree with or a guy i agree with, i'm talking about -- >> if he was convicted of the crime. the question goes to you all, was if he was convicted of a crime. the constitution is clear, if this salacious conduct, he's eliminated. let me then put it to you this way. >> the constitution governs. i believe in the constitution, and the constitution says we have a process for picking presidents in this country. i think we should follow it. i expect to follow it. i expect -- >> if you become president, -- >> even if it's not, me i will support anyone who follows that process. >> if you became president, would you pardon donald trump for any of the crimes that he has been indicted for, or if he's convicted? >> on the current facts that we have, he is one of many people that i have identified as someone i would pardon. because i do not think that this sets a good precedent for our country. where a party in power uses police force to indict its

political importance in the middle of an election. >> even before -- wait a minute. he has 19 people indicted. they are not running. even before you've heard the evidence, before the trials, you are saying that you would prejudge what is going to come out and commit to pardoning them. >> no, that's not correct. i've actually been very clear on this, reverent. assuming that the prosecution statement of the facts in the indictment is the worst version of the facts, then yes, i would. so i waited until i read the indictments. cover to cover. you 99% of prosecutions, you had any lawyer will also know this. that's the worst statement of the facts you are going to get for the defendants. >> but it's not all that's going to come out in trial. you and i know that. that's not all that's going to come out in trial. >> i was very clear at the top, i've said i read the indictment. assuming the zero the worst facts, then yes, on these facts, i will pardon trump. just as, by the way, i said i would pardon julian assange, by my best guess has very

different politics than i do. again, we apply to different standards. >> stay on my point. when you talk about the law, you've also said that i remember where there was a big argument about you saying that people having the right to guns had something to do with slavery, when the second amendment was in 1791, slavery didn't end until 1865. you very very -- >> i can actually share with you something about this. chief justice tanya, you and i probably have some common ground here. in the great stock case, who said that black people could not be citizens in the u.s., shamefully, the chief justice of the supreme court gave his argument for why. he said it would allow black people to own guns in this country. that is shameful. yes, it is part of our history. but just because -- >> they did not do the second amendment. they didn't do the second amendment to help. blacks couldn't get guns and fight. there were no -- they were not fighting to give blacks guns. when cheney said that, -- >> literally, that was the justification in the dred scott for why black people couldn't

be set against. >> dred scott decision was not in 1791, by the way. >> it was before the civil war. as you well know. i think we should -- >> we could not possess guns or even vote. until the 13th amendment. let me ask you one last question, we are out of time. one thing we have in common. with trump, you've been criticized for trafficking in conspiracy theory. here goes, do you believe, let me ask you this. you and trump have both been accused of trafficking conspiracy theories. do you believe barack obama was born in the united states, and do you think it was appropriate for trump to suggest to otherwise, even as evidence, mounted, that the claim was a lie? >> i think i have every reason to believe obama was born in the u.s.. i have never brought up that

issue. i have no idea why we are actually discussing that. but what i have talked about is for example, saudi arabia, was absolutely involved in 9/11, despite the fact that our government refused to acknowledge it. the covid-19 didn't originate in a lab in china. despite the fact that our government called that a conspiracy theory. we still haven't seen the transgender shooter manifesto out of nashville. those aren't conspiracy theories. >> should donald trump have kept saying barack obama was born in kenya? he's a man that you said was the best president this century. should he have continued trafficking the kenya lie about barack obama? >> look, i will, say as a presidential candidate, before he ran for president, i think you made absolutely the right decision to say that was a ridiculous theory. burke up almost born in the united states. frankly, i don't think we should dignify the things that aren't true. versus talking about the hard things that were labeled conspiracy theories, but our true now. i should believe in truth over

theory. i'm tied to facts. >> well, you certainly came, you knew i was going to fight it out with you. you've stood up. did about three or four docks through a couple, went through this again. thank you 2024 presidential candidate, vivek ramaswamy. back in a moment. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar.

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hostage and wrongfully detained abroad. he was nominated multiple times for the nobel peace prize, including this year of 2023. richardson was a guest on politicsnation many times, but my connection with richardson started when he worked with reverend jesse jackson. reverend jackson became an envoy for democracy to the -- of africa, while he was u.n. and bassett are. and he held a big session for reverend jackson at the u end that -- brought me along with him. and that began our friendship. i spoke with him today, who said that he and richardson spoke just this week about what was going on in -- and trying to deal with ali bongo, the head of state who's been deposed. and he considered richardson a friend, and was stunned at his death. and most recently, i connected back with richardson through his efforts to release

basketball star brittney griner. he was a towering figure, he was an example of latinos in power, but that really served all humanity. he was a man that others would not dare to go -- have gone to get those that were hostage. may he rest in power. more politicsnation in a moment. ment ment my clothes look fresh but i need them to smell fresh, too. that's why i add downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. still fresh. still fresh, you nasty little goblins! still fresh! still? still. still here. still fresh! get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. this back-to-school season, downy and tide are giving back with $1.5 million dollars in scholarships. enter to win.

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this week, 12 codefendants in the georgia election interference case have waved their arraignments, and pled not guilty. including former president trump himself, and his former lawyer rudy giuliani. these major developments come right as a brand new wall

street journal poll took former president trump's lead over his republican challengers, has only grown since he skipped the last debate and was booked to georgia. joining me now is our political panel, -- iran's republican strategist amy talk ian. in a, me i want to start in georgia. a judge this wheat confirmed that former president donald trump's trial in fulton county will be televised, and live streamed for everyone to see. what do you think? will this help or hurt trump? >> well, you think with every situation that is piling on top of him that it would continue to hurt him. but it only continues to strength him, and his base is more adamant than other. so i think by having this for all to see is going to strengthen him, unfortunately. i think the fact that he is

going to have to sit there and bite his tongue and allow his lawyers to do the work for him on his behalf, if he can keep his facial expressions at a minimum, which we know he also tends to be a little cartoonish on, i think that we will have a lot of people tuning in to watch exactly what is unfolding for the world's eyes. it's not just here, it's quite embarrassing for the entire world to witness. >> kurt, we also learned this week that former president trump and his former lawyer giuliani, along with other codefendants in georgia, have waved their arraignments and pled not guilty politically speaking. politically speaking, what do you make of this moment? >> well, it's an extraordinary moment. and it's interesting. i was watching the interview that you just did with ramaswamy, and it struck me that on one hand, when we're talking about black or brown people, it's all about law and order.

it's all about preserving our laws, our nation of laws. but when it's a bunch of white guys in suits committing crimes against democracy, somehow it's okay that they get a pass. that all of a sudden it's whatever the constitution says it should be allowed. forget about the laws and forget about order. the cognitive dissonance that was on display. >> don't even wait for a jury to decide, but go ahead. >> right. so if it's a black or brown person involved in an alleged crime, it's lock them up, throw away the key, increase penalties. but when it's white people in suits committing white collar crimes, somehow that's okay. somehow you're willing to give your endorsement to that person, to run our country, this nation of laws, and you're willing to live the other way as his coconspirators also dealing with the criminal justice system. -- you would actually look to pardon them. i don't think that in 2024 the campaign of the republican party being a vote for us, we

can keep our friends out of jail, it's really going to sweep the nation by storm. >> a new wall street journal poll shows trump has a 46 point lead over florida governor ron desantis. this poll was conducted after the first republican debate, and much of it after former president donald trump's mugshot was released. what does this poll signal to you about where the race stands right now? is it possible for desantis to recover from a 46 point deficit? >> no. it doesn't seem that way. and the fact that your former guest, vivek ramaswamy, is actually moving up slightly in the polls -- but let's also look at governor nikki haley. she is also gaining some traction. i don't know if anyone's going to be able to overcome the steep numbers that president trump has at this moment. but you never know what's going to happen in the world of politics. and the drifting may and at

some point, and he may not end up running. who knows. and if that's the case you need to have somebody like a governor nikki haley, who has a strong background when it comes to dealing with the international stage. someone who's going to be willing to work well with others as far as wanting to make sure that ukraine succeeds, wanting to make sure that nato is strong, and that our allies in israel still know that we have their backs. unlike somebody like vivek, who was you know, is a very manipulative slick talker unless he's up against someone as yourself who knows better. >> let me ask you this, kurt. speaking about vivek, who i just spoke with, as you heard, very briefly, because we're out of time. what sticks out to you about our conversation, mr. ramaswamy

and mine? >> i think that the guy is a textbook narcissist. the gaslighting, the constant interrupting and talking over, the refusal to actually answer questions directly, the flipping everything around to play into the republican overall culture of grievances, imaginary grievances that they have against the working class, against people of color, against the people who actually make our government run, this pledge to run and eliminate and eradicate the federal bureaucracy, like, this guy is just a textbook narcissist. much like his idol, donald trump. >> all right, thank you to kurt and amy. up next, my visit to the white house with others. stay with us. stay with us stay with us i'm kareem abdul jabbar. i was diagnosed with afib.

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actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. august 28th, 1963. dr. martin luther king and -- after the march on washington. president jon kennedy pushed for legislation, and pushed for the civil rights act, which they got in 64. voting rights act in 65. 60 years later, as we marched, hundreds of thousands of -- many more than 100,000 last saturday, we met with president biden and vice president harris afterward. joining members of the king family, martin luther king the third, doctor bernice king, andrea waters king, and yolanda, his granddaughter, doctor

king's granddaughter. with organizers of the march, i -- myself, mark -- other organizers of the march. saying we wanted to push for the george floyd justice and policing act, for the john lewis voting rights act, and for gun control, and economic disparities must be addressed. the march is over, but the work begins. that does it for me, thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at five pm eastern for another live hour of politicsnation. right now, american voices with guest host julian castro starts. right now. >> thanks, reverend sharpton. and rev, stick around with me for a moment. i definitely want to hash out your interview with gop presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy. but quickly, to all of you at home, i'm julian castro in this weekend for billy