that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next weekend at 5:00 p.m. eastern time. eastern time good morning. welcome to a labor day weekend edition of "morning joe." we have some of the top stories for you. let's dive right now. a federal judge ruled rudy giuliani defamed two election workers in the 2020 election. he is liable for damages which will be determined at a civil trial. former poll workers, freeman and moss, sued giuliani over his baseless claims they committed election fraud. both testified to the january 6th committee that their lives were turned upside down by those

allegations. >> now, i won't even introduce myself by my name anymore. i get nervous when i bump into someone i know in the grocery store who says my name. i'm worried about who is listening. i get nervous when i have to give my name for food orders. i'm always concerned of who is around me. i've lost my name, and i've lost my reputation. i've lost my sense of security. >> a lot of threats, wishing death upon me. telling me that, you know, i'm -- i'll be in jail with my mother. saying things like, "be glad it's 2020 and not 1920." >> were a lot of these threats and vile comments racist in nature? >> a lot of them were racist.

a lot of them were hateful. >> giuliani conceded in a court filing last month he'd made false statements about freeman and moss. he failed to produce any evidence in the discovery portion of the case, which led to the judge's defamation ruling here. freeman and moss said the ruling brings them one step closer to rebuilding their lives. spokesperson for giuliani says he has been, quote, wrongly accused. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and legal analyst joyce vance. joyce, to say turned their lives upside down is an understatement, to put it mildly. they had death threats, as you heard in their testimony before the january 6th committee. this goes to a video that rudy giuliani said showed them passing a usb drive back and forth. he said they were passing it, his words, like a vile of cocaine. dog whistle for you there. it turned out to be a mint. she was passing a mint between them. now, rudy giuliani is facing the music for what he did.

how much trouble is he in here? >> well, this at a civil case, not a criminal case, but it is such an overwhelming implication here about the way the big lie was perpetrated. these are two individual women. it is tough, willie, to think of anything more american than a mother and a daughter working the polls together, working for democracy together. what happens? rudy giuliani and then president trump make them the focal point of their allegations that there was voter fraud in georgia in a way that destroys their lives. you could see the devastation in shaye moss, the daughter's father, when she testified. this notion of losing your name, of no longer feeling secure. so this will be a monetary judgment. the judge has entered a default judgment as the result of giuliani's effort to, i think, be too cute by half with his discovery strategy, trying to hold out enough to preserve some issues on appeal while trying to

slide by in discovery. all that's left is to decide how much he will have to pay these two women in damages. of course, the judge's parting shot on the way out the door was to require giuliani to pay their attorneys' fees, as well. >> joyce, we know from this that the law does work eventually, and it has worked in this case. a judge finds him liable for defamation. my question is the time involved here. these women already lost a lot, including their reputation and the fear of going around the town they live in. what happens to giuliani in terms of the time he is going to be given to find some money to pay them whatever the fine, whatever the judge assesses, and what will happen to him in terms of the punishment, other than the fine? >> sure. so that's a legitimate issue here. giuliani, at some point, the court will enter a final order, then giuliani will owe these

women money. he will undoubtedly file a notice of appeal and try to delay the inevitable. that means he'll have to put down an appeal bond in order to ensure that the -- these women will ultimately receive the award that the court has given them, but it could be a matter of additional time here. some folks in this situation would do the right thing. i think we're past the point where we expect that of rudy giuliani who has financial difficulties to boot. but what these two women walk away with in a very concrete sense is the notion that they have been found to be in the right here. giuliani was wrong. that he defamed them. and it may not sound like a lot, this notion of being right and of having a court make that determination, but in this sort of a setting, this lets them reclaim their name, reclaim their lives, and it is an important step in their recovery. as for giuliani, he goes on to face criminal charges in georgia

in connection with the conduct here. we don't know whether he'll be in an early tranche or later tranche for trial. might he try to conclude a guilty plea or make the effort to conduct with the government, that all remains to be seen. but this is the civil part of the case we learned about yesterday. the criminal part is ongoing. >> that's true. john, when i asked joyce how much trouble rudy is in, i meant financial trouble. he got trump to hold a $100,000 a plate fundraiser at mar-a-lago to help with his legal defense fund. rudy giuliani is in a bad place right now. >> very bad place. such a steep fall from grace for the man once known, of course, as america's mayor. joyce, of course, one of the things that got rudy in trouble, he'll be going on trial soon enough in fulton county, georgia. i want to ask about the headline from the d.a. there, fani willis, made recently. we know a couple of people who have been charged.

sydney powell and kenneth chesebro asked for a speedy trial. she said, let's give everyone a speedy trial, pushing for october. you know, nearly 20 people there. how realistic does that seem to you, something like that could happen? if you had to hazard a guess when this case, which is a state case, which often takes a backseat to federal matters, when do you think this trail will go to trial? what is the d.a.'s play here? trump and his team are suggesting this is pure politics. >> right. so the d.a.'s play here is that she is ready to go. she took those extra months that folks complained about after she said her indictment was imminent, and she apparently used that time to be prepared to go to trial, if not the minute the indictment dropped, then not very long afterwards. she gives every appearance of being serious and committed to trying this case. but there's some dueling legal principles in place. in georgia, and this is a little

bit of an unusual rule, when a defendant makes a request for a speedy trial, they're entitled to that within the next two terms of court. a failure by the district attorney to try the case within those time limits means the case gets dismissed. so for these folks who have made speedy trial requests, unless they were to revoke them, they will go to trial on this fast timeline. but by the same token, willis' request that everyone be required to go to trial on that same timeline is a little bit unrealistic. some of the defendants will make arguments that they need more time to prepare. the volume of discovery. willis indicated she'll be turning over 2 terabytes of discovery around september 15th, and others will say, "i need more time." the judge, i think, will have to split the baby into at least those two groups, the people who want to go fast and those who want more time, meaning willis may not get her big show trial

with 19 defendants. >> joyce, still on this issue of scheduling and timing, can we broaden it out a little bit? i get asked by people whether we're going to be in a situation that donald trump is convicted, sentenced, behind bars by the time it comes to next year's election. is there -- we now have the date from judge chutkan here in d.c. of march the 4th. can you just kind of run through quickly the prospects of where we could be by november in any of these cases? even if that case were to go ahead, i think there's some slippage possible on the march 4th date. presumably, you have the sentencing stage and the appeals stage. what are the realistic possibilities for trump and his legal status come november 2024 in the election day? >> this is a really great question because there are always inherent delays in the criminal justice system. for instance, if trump were to

posture some sort of an issue where he got an adverse ruling from judge chutkan and he were able to take an appeal to the court of appeals, that could really impact this march trial setting and slow things down. that would be, in essence, the district judge at the mercy of the court of appeals. now, look, i think as a practical matter, the courts will be ready to rule quickly if that sort of thing happens. but we're still talking about a consequential delay with the parties given time to file briefs and the court taking time to make its decision. even if that doesn't happen, there's always the possibility of pretrial issues, a witness gets sick, there's some other form of delay that drops trial back a little bit. the government has said six to eight weeks for its case. we don't know how long the former president's case, if any, would take, but that extends us out several months. then, to your point, if there is a conviction, sentencing doesn't

follow immediately on the heels of the jury's verdict. there's time that's taken by the probation office to write what's called a presentence report. they have to gather evidence, put that extensive report together to aid the judge in sentencing. then, following that sentencing proceeding, there is the people who are convicted, in this case in washington, it'd be only trump who is a standalone defendant, he would be able to take an appeal. he would have the opportunity to argue that he should remain free on bond pending appeal. if he could satisfy the court that his appeal was taken for reasons other than just delay and that he had legitimate arguments that had a chance of success on appeal, then he would get an appeal bond. that would wipe off the map any possibility that he would be in custody at the time of the election. of course, lots of moving parts here. four different cases. we still don't know precisely who goes first.

there's some overlap in the trial settings and the requests from prosecutors. but, again, i think we have to be very hesitant about thinking that we will see trump, candidate trump, running from prison. >> former u.s. attorney joyce vance, a lot to sift through there, explaining it so well, joyce. thanks so much, as always. coming up next, former new jersey governor chris christie discusses donald trump's new trial date in the federal election interference case and why he says it means he should not be president. we'll be right back. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. take the first step to see if your small business qualifies. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. in the mood for breakfast? at denny's, the super slam

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republican presidential candidate, former new jersey governor, chris christie. governor, good morning. it's good to see you. let's get right to the day's news. we have a trial date set now for donald trump in this federal election interference case. march 4th, the eve of super tuesday. obviously, a very busy day, on the eve of that big super tuesday primary and caucus event. what is your reaction to the timing of this trial?

>> well, look, willie, you know, as you know, i served seven years as the u.s. attorney in the fifth largest office in the country. we did over 130 public corruption cases during my seven years there. we were 130-0. i understand the way these cases work. this is a relatively straightforward case. it's just one defendant. it's essentially four charges. the idea that they have another six months to prepare for trial would be a normal situation in the district of new jersey. i think in probably almost any federal district of any size in the country. usually, you know, this is the way these cases work, so i'm not surprised by the date. i thought the 2026 request was ridiculous. when your lawyer is going in making requests like that in front of a judge that they know is ridiculous. it doesn't curry you favor with the judge in the seriousness of the arguments you make.

it was a bad strategic move. i'm convinced it was driven by the client, not by the lawyers, as most of the bad decisions on the trump legal team are driven by. now, they've got a march 4th date. you know, look, i think the thing for republican voters to think about out there is, this guy is going to be sitting in a courtroom starting on march 4th for probably six to eight weeks, depending upon the length of the defense case. at least six weeks. every day. not out on the campaign trail making the case against joe biden, which is what republicans should be doing every day. we simply cannot expect that someone who is facing this number of criminal trials, and, quite frankly, the conduct that underlies those charges, can be a viable fall election candidate against joe biden. and if we lose to joe biden, republicans need to understand that we're going to be looking at a packed supreme court. we're going to be looking at the

end of the filibuster and a number of other issues that folks like me and the rest of the folks in our party can't have. so i'm in this race because we want someone who can beat joe biden. on that debate stage wednesday night, willie, i was the only one on that stage that's ever defeated a democratic incumbent in an election. i did it in a very blue state, being outspent 3-1. that's why i'm the guy who can beat joe biden. this trial date for donald trump just makes it even clearer that he cannot be our nominee. if he is, we're going to lose the election. >> and it's just one of several trial dates next year. we've been showing this calendar this morning, governor, of how busy it is. this does not even include the georgia trial, which we dropped somewhere in there. last time you were on, we talked about polling that has donald trump still way ahead. we want to talk about state polling.

this morning, the ajc has one. that was national polling. ajc has a new poll out this morning, georgia after everything that's gone on. after the mugshot and the booking and everything else. donald trump still enjoys a 42-point lead over ron desantis in the state of georgia. what convinces you, governor, that that dynamic changes over the next several months, that, somehow, voters who have stood by donald trump and, in fact, in some cases intensified their support as they bought his case that he's a martyr and victim in all this, what changes that dynamic? >> i think what you're seeing right now. all of this stuff beforehand, willie, in terms of the impact that his conduct and the subsequent charges are going to have on the election have been hypothetical. now, people are going to see what they really mean. they're going to mean that a candidate can't be out there campaigning. he's going to be tending to his own criminal trial in federal district court in the district of columbia. his own criminal trial in manhattan supreme court in new york.

and those two cases, i think, are almost certain to both be tried before the election, even before the convention, i suspect, in the summer of 2024 coming up. so when those things become real, and let's face it, all these polls now, i can tell ya this. i've been at the jersey shore for a couple of days. nobody is focusing on this election. they're focusing on the end of their summer, their last week of potential vacation, getting their kids ready to start the school year if they haven't done so already. the debate wednesday was the starting gun in this race, and people are going to start to focus on it this fall. when they do, republicans are going to realize that nominating donald trump is going to be an enormous gift to the democrats. the democrats are doing what they're doing because they want donald trump to be the nominee, because they know they can beat donald trump. the reason they know they can is they already have.

>> governor christie, next year, when this thing really gets going, when the election really gets going, you've tried to make the case, and you're trying to make the case that you are the guy who can make the case against joe biden. so my question to you is, how does what's left of your political party, the remnants of the republican party, how do they, how do you make the case against joe biden, when last week, six of the eight candidates for president of the united states standing alongside you on the stage, indicated that they would vote for him, for trump, even if he were a convicted felon? how do you convince the country that your party is still sane? >> because i didn't raise my hand, mike. and the leader of the party sets the tone for the party. the leader of the party writes the hymnal the rest of the party sings from. i'll provide the leadership,

first and foremost, that says the truth matters. the truth matters no matter whether the truth is helpful to you politically one day or less helpful the next day. the truth matters because the american people are tired of having a government that wastes their money, that doesn't provide results for them, given everything that they're providing to us in terms of their tax dollars. and i think those things are going to matter. you know, just in the same way that donald trump led aspects of our party astray because of his own personal conduct, his own self-absorption, and his own need to continue to pretend he was president even after he was defeated in 2020. new leadership can take our party in an entirely new direction, so i absolutely believe in the fact that leaders make a difference. leaders don't follow polls, mike, they change 'em. that's the kind of leader i intend to be.

that was the leader i was in new jersey for eight years as governor in a very blue state where people said he'd never get elected in the first place. i was coming on your show back then. you remember. then they said i'd never get re-elected. i won with 61% of the state. winning a majority of the hispanic vote in the state, winning 29% of the african-american vote. that's the kind of coalition that can bring the country together and get the type of conservative results we need to get our country back on track. so i just believe leadership matters. it makes a difference. if i didn't, mike, i wouldn't be running for president. >> governor christie, elise jordan here. you have chosen to attack donald trump more toughly and in a more robust way than any other candidate, and most republican consultants, i'm sure, are saying, don't do that. republican voters still like donald trump. it's very tough to actually win if you're attacking donald trump.

how do you attack and still make headway in the polls? >> well, elise, look, i can tell ya this, i have not been in the race even three months yet, and we've gone from zero to 14% in the latest poll in new hampshire. clearly in second place, ahead of ron desantis in fourth and vivek ramaswamy in third. we're now within 20 points of donald trump in new hampshire. he's only at 34%. so, you know, what matters is the truth. you can say i'm attacking donald trump, and i understand that's the way some people would look at it. but what i'm doing is telling the truth about donald trump. i'm not afraid to do so. that's why i didn't raise my hand on the stage on wednesday night. because the minimum bar we should have for someone to be running for president of the united states is that they're not indicted or convicted of felonies. let alone the underlying conduct that is in these classified documents case, the january 6th case.

these are acts that are just beneath the office he held when he committed the acts when he was president and the acts he committed since he was president are well beneath the bar we should have for anybody who aspires to be president again. what i'm doing is telling the truth to folks, and i'm doing it in the way i've always done it. absolutely looking into the camera like i'm looking this morning and telling people what i believe in my heart and what i know from my experience as a prosecutor. this guy is in big trouble. he is in big trouble because he did it to himself. he's inflicting that damage now on our party and on our country. that's not right. someone needs to stand up against that. i'm the one who is doing it. by the way, that now has me in second place in new hampshire, elise, after not even three months. i'm not nearly as pessimistic as some others are. i know i can turn that second place in new hampshire into a win in new hampshire. when i do, this entire race will be turned on its head.

coming up, speaker kevin mccarthy continues to suggest republicans are close to opening an impeachment inquiry into president biden. we'll ask a democratic member of the oversight committee about what's going on in the republican-led house. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv ♪ chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? yeah. any truck can help you make a living. this one helps you build a life. chevy silverado.

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house speakerpushing fohreat of a possible impeachment inquiry into president biden. >> if you look at the information we've been able to gather so far, it is a natural step forward that you would have to go to an impeachment inquiry. >> mccarthy's comments come as he claims the president has not provided documents concerning the republicans' multiple investigations. the biden family is alleged to have received payments from foreign countries, as well as preferential treatment for hunter bidbiden. in a social media post last night, president trump criticized republican lawmakers for not moving forward with the

threat of an inquiry, writing in part, "impeach the bum or fade into ooblivion." let's bring in congressman ro khanna. good to have you with us. the chairman of your committee, james comer, said previously that, in fact, they're getting the documents they asked for from all the organizations he's asked for them from. he also said, well, we haven't drawn a connection between hunter biden and president biden, but we believe there's a lot of smoke. so far, no fire. what is your sense of why they're going through this exercise and where it ends? >> talk about a downshift from your previous segment, where we're talking about the inspiring march on washington and dr. king. now, the petty politics of the modern house. i mean, what we should be doing in the house is legislation for the racist shooting in jacksonville. what we should be doing in the house is talking about economic cost, child care cost. instead, this speaker is not focused on the issues that people care about.

i think i had one question in my town hall the other night on hunter biden and joe biden. that's because the american people aren't affected. there is not a single shred of evidence that payments went to joe biden. it is total politics. donald trump was impeached twice and is running in 2024. they want to try to bloody up the president for 2024. this is all politics and has nothing to do with helping the american public. >> while the republicans are focusing on this potential impeachment inquiry, one thing the people do care about is the federal government staying open. there's not a lot of time to get a deal done. there had been some momentum, perhaps some short-term spending bill passed, but what's your sense of where things stand? a lot of stuff can change over recess, as you well know. where do you see this going when you guys resume next month? how worried are you the government could shut down? >> i'm concerned.

the reality is that the president made a deal with the speaker to avoid the debt default. some of us didn't like the deal. i didn't like the deal. i mean, in my view, it had too harsh cuts on social programs, but the president made a deal. now, the speaker is saying, no, that deal is no longer valid. we want additional cuts to programs like social security or medicare or other housing programs. that's just not going to fly. he's got to stick to the deal that he made with the president. again, the problem, though, is that he's got a caucus that, on his side, was upset with that deal, and the question is whether he is going to be able to persuade them. but it is a risky situation, and like you said, there are only about 11, 12 days to get this done. >> congressman, let's take a little detour from electoral politics and talk about something that i think every single parent around america is concerned about at the moment. that's child care and the cost of child care. there really a crisis.

it is costing something like $10,000 a year, on average, for people to look after their children. it is far too much money. you and congresswoman nancy mace of south carolina, the republican, are launching a child care caucus. what do you think you can do to make child care more affordable for americans? >> well, according to a republican pollster, 86% of americans believe that the government needs to do something to bring down child care costs. as you pointed out, it's on average $10,000 for every family, almost 10% of the income. 85% of women say when they leave a job, it is often because of child care concerns. so we need to do a few things. one, we need to provide more government support for child care. on september 30th, there is the american rescue plan funding running out. almost 70,000 child care centers lose money. i'm working with nancy mace and others to try to get that

funding extended in the short term. in the long run, i believe we should have $10 a day child care. that'd be the maximum cost of $2,400 a year for families. that is something the government should be willing to support through quality child care providers. >> child care cliff, something a lot of people may not know about but ought to look into. democratic congressman ro khanna of california, thanks so much for being here. up next, we read from eugene robinson's recent piece in "the washington post" in response to last weekend's racially motivated shooting in florida. so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ for moms, from centrum. ♪ this new mom ♪ ♪ here i go ♪ ♪ i am strong and brave i know ♪ ♪ with a little time for me ♪ ♪ no doubt i will get through ♪ ♪ loving me is loving you ♪

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♪♪ now to an update on the racially motivated attack in jacksonville, florida. on saturday, a gunman shot and killed three black people at a dollar general store. police say he left behind a manifesto detailing his explicit hatred for black people. yesterday, a planned event in the city to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the march on washington turned into a protest and a call to end white supremacy. some demonstrators condemned governor ron desantis' so-called anti-woke agenda, suggesting it is proving fear and hate. president biden, meanwhile, spoke during a white house event to mark the famous march, calling on americans to do more to stop hate and criticizing lawmakers who have been pushing extremist policies. >> we can't let hate prevail, and it's on the rise. it's not diminishing.

silence, i believe, we've all said many times, silence is complicity. we're not going to remain silent. we're going to have to act against this hate and violence. there's a whole group of extreme people trying to erase history, trying to walk away from it. i mean, the idea that we're sitting here, i never thought i'd be president, let alone be president and having a discussion on why books are being banned in american schools. >> gene, your latest op-ed in "the washington post" is titled, "black people are killed for being black, again." quote, while thousands gathered saturday on the national mall to mark the 60th anniversary on the march on washington, a racist white man in jacksonville, florida, killed three african-americans for the unforgivable crime of being african-american. governor ron desantis said the right things, albeit awkwardly,

but the crowd was right to boo him. he's weakened gun laws in florida, crusaded against wokeness, and has instituted a new curriculum in florida to downplay the long history of african-americans. martin luther king's dream will never be realized until the nation fully confronts and acknowledges its history. and mass shootings will never end until the nation enacts sensible laws to keep the guns out of the hands of those who kill. this is the lethal combination we've seen too often in the last several years, of explicit hay hatred and high-powered weapons. >> the hatred is not new. it's the same thing that happened last year in buffalo at the tops supermarket. ten black people were killed for being black. it's the same thing that happened in 2015, mother emanuel

church in south carolina, where people were killed for being black. the same thing that happened in 1955 in mississippi with emmett till. we're right around that anniversary. i mean, you know, what really got to me was the way that, in florida, in jacksonville, florida, in florida, we're talking about essentially whitewashing history. which governor desantis has been doing. until we acknowledge and know this history, the history of the long jim crow period, the history of the violence that was committed during those decades against black people in this country, across this country, we're just not going to move forward. so it is shameful that there are efforts to, in effect, hide that history.

then, of course, there is a separate issue of guns, which we talk about every time we have one of these shootings. you know, you get hoarse from making this point, but you have to keep making it over and over again. we're the only country that has more guns than people. we're the only advanced country that has these mass shootings. a new film is shining a light on the man who organized the '63 march on washington. his story and why he remained behind the scenes, next on "morning joe." for what you n. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right.

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♪ ingrezza ♪ the march on washington, the man who organized the full thing, mr. bayard rustin. [ applause ] ladies and gentlemen, the first demand is that we have effective

civil rights legislation, no compromise, no filibuster, and that it includes public accommodations, decent housing, integrated education, and the right to vote! what do you say? [ applause ] >> that was the architect of the march on washington, civil rights activist bayard rustin. one of the greatest organizers in american history, rustin was the main planner for that famed 1963 march. yet, as an openly gay man in the 1960s, he stayed behind the scenes and largely out of the spotlight. now, his story is being told in the upcoming biopic, "rustin," the first feature film from higher ground productions. that, of course, is barack and michelle obama's production

company. let's take a look at the film's trailer. >> this new generation is restless and angry. >> the pas pacivist is opposed using violence but has to take it. >> i've been called worse. >> derail the fight for racial justice for ten years. >> on the day i was born black, i was also born a homosexual. >> we're calling for a peaceful march on washington. ♪♪ >> we are committed to the cause of altering the trajectory of this country toward freedom. >> i believe in freedom and justice for all. they do or they do not. >> joining us now is the film's director, george c. wolf.

he has won a director's guild award and five tonys. george, thank you so much for being here this morning. >> glad to be here. >> it is, of course, the anniversary today. we spent a lot of time this morning talking about it. there are people who think of that day, they think of martin luther king jr., of course, they think of john lewis. but tell us about bayard rustin and why you feel this is the moment we should get to know him, too. >> as you stated earlier, he was an astonishing organizer. it is remarkable to think they planned initially for 100,000 people to show up. they had eight weeks to do it. there were 250,000 people who showed up. there was everything there from phones, so the reporters could call in stories, to water fountains. all these details you don't think about, but it's one of the reasons why the march ran so smoothly. it is also one of the things that is interesting, he had this theory that sound was so important and sound is how you turn a crowd into an audience.

he required a very sophisticated sound system so that everybody was a part of the same moment. so just every single miraculous detail that you can think of, he covered and then some. >> george, this is al sharpton. i have been blessed to have seen a screening of this film, and it is very well done. it's amazing. >> thank you. >> when i was 16 years old in 1991, i was able -- i mean, 1971. i'm sorry. [ laughter ] i kind of was trying to rob 20 years, but i'm not going to do that. 1971, i started my own youth group. i left the operation bread basket in new york chapter and formed the national youth movement. i went to see bayard rustin, who many of the older ministers were shunning even in that late period, '71, because of the

homophobia and all. >> wow. >> i asked him, how do you organize? he started telling me about doing this, put me in touch with labor, and i'm a 16-year-old kid. when i left, i was saying, mr. rustin, thank you for your time. he says, young man, how are you going to start your own group with no money? he gave me the first $500 check. he said, "give the young man a check." fast forward, three years ago, i told this as an a. philip randolph institute conference, that bayard rustin founded the conference, and rochelle harwood said, "he's telling the truth. i gave the check." she's also one of the features in your film. >> absolutely. >> talk about how rochelle and bayard worked with labor and really enacted a lot of the things that dr. king and others in the civil rights movement leadership at that time that we remember today, they were like the ones that were the wheels that kept a coalition together of labor and civil rights and

other groups. >> absolutely. one of the things that's really interesting is when certain civil rights organizations were a little cautious about joining in, they engaged labor. they were able to put into place all the dynamics that they wouldn't have otherwise. they formed these incredibly intense coalitions. bayard did what he did primarily with a team like rochelle, a team of kids. they were in their late teens and early 20s. they would work 12, 14 hours a day solving all these problems, making connections. he formed a coalition with the guardians, which was a black fraternal organization of police, and trained them individually in non-violence. those were the primary policing forces that were at play in washington, d.c. so he engaged every single aspect. he convinced mayor wagner to alter the subway schedule so

that, therefore, it was a rush hour schedule at 6:00 in the morning so everyone could meet their buses in the city. he engaged labor, the police, the city, anybody he possibly could just to pull off this phenomenal event. there were also fears that violence and all sorts of things were going to happen that were going to be horrible, and nothing like that occurred because it was so smooth, so efficient, and so gloriously focused on the agenda, which is altering the direction of the country in terms of race. >> changing the subject just a little bit. obviously, i know the directors are not on strike. it is so great to have you here. it is so great to have new content being released. how much is the strike in hollywood affecting your rollout of the film? >> it is interesting. because i'm sitting here talking opposed to some young, handsome or beautiful actor instead of me. so it's had an impact in terms

of that respect. but the film is all completely done. we released the trailer. we're really excited about sharing it, sharing it with the world. more so, sharing the story of this phenomenal, phenomenal american, more than anybody nigh -- anything else. he changed, altered this country in a substantive way. because of who he was and because he was unapologetically of who he was, he was pushed more and more into the background. finally, his story is being told and shared in an expansive way, and i hope everybody will watch it and see how important it is to honor those who have come before. >> well, you are certainly a handsome enough face to promote it. we appreciate you being here. we're back in a moment with more of this week's top stories. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia!

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welcome back to a special edition of "morning joe" on this labor day weekend. let's jump right back into some of the week's top stories. former president trump officially has pled not guilty in the fulton county election interference case. trump's team entered his plea yesterday for the 13 felony charges he faces, including a racketeering and conspiracy. the plea was entered in writing as they filed a waiver to tell the court he'd not appear for next week's scheduled arraignment. former president's legal team pushing to separate his case from the other co-defendants. the filing argues october 23rd

is not enough time to prepare a defense. that date was set for the speedy trial of co-defendant kenneth cheseboro. fani willis asked for that date to be set for the remainder of the co-defendants, as well. when the date is officially set, there will be cameras in the courtroom, the decision confirmed by the judge yesterday. hearings and proceedings relatded to the case will be televised and live streamed on the youtube channel. glenn, i'll start with you. let's talk about donald trump waiving the arraignment, pleading guilty, no surprise there. what about severing his case from the others? what do you read into that? >> not a surprise. we have motions to sever, essentially defendants saying, look, judge, i want you to break me out from the pack. i want a separate trial."

they want to separate themselves from the people they believe might be more culpable. they don't want evidence spilling over on them in a joint trial. with respect to donald trump's decision to forego a personal appearance at his arraignment, i have a feeling, you know, all along, donald trump has been, you know, waging this battle, really in a court of public opinion, not in a court of law. so he may have made the decision that, you know, his grifting opportunities will not be particularly high if he makes another personal appearance in georgia for his arraignment. so he and his lawyers have decided to waive, you know, the personal appearance at the arraignment, enter a plea of not guilty, and he'll wait to see what the court does, not only with respect to the next in-person status hearing, but with respect to his motion to sever. it'll be interesting. i will say, willie, most motions to sever are denied. the court will cite things like judicial economy and efficiency. imagine if you had to have 19

separate trials. witnesses would have to testify 19 times. it could go on for years. there is this sort of preference for a joint trial when defendants are properly joined together in a single indictment. we'll have to see what judge mcafee does in georgia. >> with that in mind, do you believe even kenneth cheseboro gets his trial, very soon, by the way, we're in september, so next month, he is looking for an october 23rd trial, which d.a. willis said, "sure, we're ready. let's do that." do you think he goes on october 23rd? as you look at, you know, the idea that is getting split up 19 different ways, which as you say is unlikely to happen, when might donald trump finally have his trial? >> great question. two different issues with respect to somebody demanding a speedy trial, and under georgia law, that means cheseboro has to

be tried by the end of october, that is separate and apart from a motion to sever. i do think cheseboro will get his speedy trial. sidney powell, who has also made a speedy trial demand, may get batched together with cheseboro. it's an open question as to how much time judge mcafee will give the other defendants. cheseboro and powell set an atmospheric precedent, not a legal precedent, and their arguments are now kind of antagonistic to all the other defendants who will argue, "geez, i can't possibly be ready to go to trial in october." the judge, i think, can rightly observe, well, other defendants are ready, willing and able to go in october, so why can't you? >> one of those 19 co-defendants, one of donald trump's 18 co-defendants in this georgia case may have, well,

confessed a little bit to the crimes he is accused of while giving an interview to fox news. former trump lawyer, john eastman, he of the infamous eastman memo, appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. this was during an exchange with fox host laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen, and how was that historically grounded? in the history of our country, how would that have taken place? so viewers understand, how that would have unfolded and how it would have been ultimately constitutional? >> so, you know, several things. some people urged that vice president pence simply had power to reject electors whose certification was still pending in -- >> i don't believe that, but go ahead. >> i don't either. >> one thing i don't agree with. >> i told vice president pence in the oval office on january 4th, though it was an open

issue, under the circumstances we had, i thought it was the weaker argument and it would be foolish to exercise such power, even if he had it. what i recommended, and i've said this repeatedly, is that he cede a request from more than 100 state legislators in the swing states, to give them a week to try to sort out the impact of what everybody acknowledged was illegality in the conduct of the election. >> not everyone acknowledged it, but that was the argument that was being made, obviously. >> well -- >> there were irregularities that everybody had seen. whether it was -- you know, whether it rose to the level of changing the outcome of the election, again, without a legal proceeding in the states that mattered, the argument ultimately was a difficult one to make. i mean, hence, here we are. >> gene robinson, there you have one of the central players in all this, a guy that jonathan lemire wrote about a lot in his book, "the big lie," who drafted the memo with this theory, this

crack legal theory that, yes, mike pence could flip the election to donald trump. effectively saying, "yes, that's exactly what i tried to do around the election. and, by the way, everyone knew there was something fishy about this election. but, no, no, no, there were 65 court cases, only two went his way." also, people saying, obviously, there was something going on. they're throwing around these words. it's just not true. it's just not true, and he may have implicated himself in the interview. >> you're right, it is just not true. not everyone acknowledged problems with the election. in fact, as you just mentioned, that proposition was tested in court 65 times, and it failed, well, two minor examples of where maybe irregularities were found. but, in fact, nothing that would have changed the outcome of the election in any state. period.

it simply did not happen. so that's a lie and just acknowledged, really, he tried to do something that was unconstitutional or extra constitutional. there's no sort of, well, give it a week, sort of provision in the constitution or in our law that would allow that sort of thing. so, yeah, it sounds to me like an admission of the facts with which he's being charged criminally. it's a problem. i don't know why these lawyers go on fox news and talk. they're criminally charged. defendants who go out in public and talk about their cases generally don't do themselves in good and often do themselves harm. i think that's what eastman is doing. >> a little light confession there from john eastman who, of course, also during the process in 2020, in emails, would

suggest, "we might be breaking the law here." more of the same from him. to gene's point, it is right, lawyers usually tell their clients not to go on tv. someone needs to tell the lawyers to do the same. up next, a former judge rules former mayor rudy giuliani can be held accountable for defamation. we'll explain how much it might cost him, straight ahead. in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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welcome back. on wednesday, a federal judge in georgia ruled former trump attorney rudy giuliani defamed two federal election work e followers the 2020 election. former poll workers, ruby freeman and shaye moss, sued giuliani over his baseless claims they committed election fraud. both testified to the january 6th committee their lives were turned upside down by the false allegations. >> now, i won't even introduce myself by my name anymore. i get nervous when i bump into

someone i know in the grocery store who says my name. i'm worried about who is listening. i get nervous when i have to give my name for food orders. i'm always concerned about who is around me. i've lost my name and my reputation. i've lost my sense of security. >> a lot of threats wishing death upon me. telling me that, you know, i'll be in jail with my mother. saying things like, "be glad it's 2020 and not 1920." >> were a lot of these threats and vile comments racist? nature? >> a lot of them were racist. a lot of them were just hateful. >> giuliani conceded in a court filing last month he had made false statements about freeman and moss. he also failed to produce any evidence during the discovery

portion of this case leading to the judge's defamation ruling. in a statement, freeman and moss said the ruling brings them one step closer to rebuilding their lives. spokesperson for giuliani says he has been, quote, wrongly accused. let's bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian and political reporter for the atlanta journal constitution greg bluestein. good morning. greg, i'll start with you down there in atlanta. just to remind our viewers about the allegations rudy giuliani made against these two poll workers, suggesting they were passing some kind of a drive with votes on it between them. turned out that was a breath mint. that led to things like people coming to homes of their relatives looking for them, trying to push their way into the house, looking for these two people that rudy giuliani had villainized falsely. >> yeah, willie, it was absolutely heart wrenching testimony we just saw. it reminded me of going through all that in 2020. these were not public officials, right? this was -- it's bad enough when our publicly elected officials

and high-ranking politicians get targeted with this vitriol. these were just rank and file election staffers, the cogs of our democracy, the people working in elections officers to make sure we have timely and accurate election results. they were being accused by rudy giuliani and other trump allies in terms of rudy giuliani in a legislative hearing in the georgia capitol of doing something nefarious. when, as you mentioned, there was no sort of usb drive. it was a ginger mint that ruby freeman and shaye moss were passing to one another. >> let's talk about this case, ken, and the liability now rudy giuliani faces and why he is facing it. he wouldn't produce documents for discovery. says, "well, the fbi took my phone. i don't have access to a lot of that stuff." why didn't he provide that information? what happens from here? what are some of the consequences? >> they're huge, willie. first of all, i should just say, this is such a profound example

of the human impact of these election lies. >> yes. >> really the most egregious we've seen. we could see the racist overtones in the allegations made against these women. judge howell here in washington, d.c., just decided rudy giuliani was playing games with the process. he was refusing to engage in what's known as civil discovery, where someone sues you, the judge rules the suit is legitimate, and you have to turn over documents, including secret financial documents, and he wouldn't do it. she gave him extension after extension. finally, she imposed the ultimate penalty, which is she entered a judgment saying that he was essentially liable for defamation, for civil conspiracy, and for punitive damages. there were a couple interesting lines in her ruling that i wanted to read to you. she said, "just as taking shortcuts to win an election carries risks, even potential criminal liable, bypassing the discovery process carries

serious sanctions." she also said, "donning a cloak of victimization may play well on a public stage to certain audiences, but in a court of law, this performance is only served to subvert the normal process of discovery." the bottom line here is that these women do not have to prove their case anymore. it's proven. it's been established. now, there will be a trial as to how much money rudy giuliani has to pay them. he owes them $90,000 according to this judge for their legal fees. it's a big blow to mr. giuliani. of course, it's one of a long line of things he's facing, including criminal liability. you know, there are reports he's got a debt of $3 million in legal fees. his life essentially is falling apart. he is losing his license to practice law. just add this to the list of legal woes for rudy giuliani. >> greg, let's talk about some of the other legal woes. he, of course, was just indicted a few days ago for the matter in georgia. a steep fall from grace for the man once known as america's mayor.

talk about how this matter in georgia, this case here with the finding he defamed these two election workers, could that impact the criminal trial that he faces also in fulton county? >> yeah, and this is front page news in georgia because it hits, obviously, so close to home, those allegations, those lies and conspiracy theories that rudy giuliani promoted during three separate hearings, two in person and one virtual in the state capitol in 2020, kind of at the root of all of this. he is being accused of being part of this far-reaching criminal enterprise that fani willis laid out, the district attorney laid out in her 51-count indictment. coming up, new polling that may indicate there is some softness in donald trump's lead in the republican primary. is it just wishful thinking by his opponents, or is there something behind the new numbers? we'll dig in straight ahead.

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♪♪ despite a series of polls that show donald trump is well ahead of his republican primary opponents, there is another new survey out that suggests the former president could be in serious trouble if he's on the ballot in next year's general election. joining us now with an analysis of those numbers is former federal prosecutor, a contributor writer for "new york magazine" and "politico" magazine. also with us, "politico" reporter, alex, who talks about trump's booking and mugshot, which we'll get to in a moment. tell us about these poll numbers you're seeing, and what's your analysis? is there more here than what appears to be on the surface? >> yeah, so i think for today,

there are a few important things to keep in mind. we asked respondents whether they want jack smith's federal case to go to trial before next november. we have a 50% result, saying it should go to trial before next november. in terms of below the top lines, right, we've come used to half the country thinks trump committed serious crimes, he may be guilty, that sort of thing, but we saw new movement in the figures in our latest poll. 50% of folks said he should go to prison if convicted in the january 6th justice department case, which is the highest number we've seen so far in our small number of surveys. then i think the reaction of independents to all of these questions, i think, bodes poorly for trump in a general election setting. again, we're seeing a pretty significant amount of interest on the parts of independents. we're taking these cases, and they're reacting negatively

regarding trump. if the cases go to trial, they're going to be learning more negative things about trump as he is running for re-election. >> that's part of this, right? that's the case the democrats are making, is that they're saying, well, we don't actually need, in our campaign, to talk about trump's legal issues. because they're going to saturate the media. it's going to be day in and day out, negative headline, negative headline. next year, he'll be dashing from courtroom to rally site back to courtroom. it's those independents that you're highlighting that are so often those that decide elections, particularly close elections. our last few presidential elections have been that. is that the theory of the case here? by this time next year, trump's numbers with independents might be so low, were he to be the nominee, they'd have a very hard time winning in november? >> i mean, that does seem to be the democrats' case and the white house's theory of the case. i think the major point of caution here, you know, what our analysis shows is these cases, indictments, they're not helping trump, despite what he claims,

at least in a general election setting. they're pulling him down. possibly even in the republican primary, but certainly they'll be a drag in the general election. the caveat, as people are considering a head-to-head challenge between biden and trump, this isn't going to be the only issue that guides their votes next year, right? the economy, foreign policy, the extent people are concerned about that. you know, even at the same time, you know, we're seeing initial signs there's going to be some drag on trump's numbers, it's hard to say what will happen between now and next november as voters consider the constellation of issues that may be relevant to informing their votes. >> isaac, al sharpton. you broke the story about this $7 million, $7.2 million windfall that president -- former president trump got -- had. as this develops, do you think every time there is a major step toward trial or mayor step

toward whatever is going to happen on the calendar in these four cases against him, that he is going to continue to have a bump up in fundraising? and if so, that fundraising also keeps him in these campaigns, even if he is in a courtroom that can keep him buying spots on television and social media? in other words, fueling his campaign more and more if he keeps getting this kind of reaction in terms of fundraising, as we see more developments in his legal problems. >> if past is precedent, the answer to that question is yes, right? his campaign has been able to really turn these legal cases into cold, hard cash. they've been able to sell these indictments, turn them into murch, find ways to appeal to supporters, and get them to open up their wallets. really been able to connect with supporters in terms of their support for him, their anger at

what they feel is like an unfair legal system, and it's worked in terms of helping trump fill his war chest. if you look at his fundraising over the course of this year, a lot of it has been driven by small donors who want to get behind the former president and help him out. some is going to tv ads, but some goes to his political action committee which is paying his legal cost. there's double benefit here for trump. on the one hand, you have help in terms of the running the campaign. on the other hand, you have help in terms of paying your lawyers. >> alex, can we be clear on the $7 million? this is coming from the trump campaign. are we confident that those numbers are the right numbers, that this is actually what it is? >> that's what they're reporting. we'll be able to get a clearer sense of all the fundraising numbers that the trump campaign

has from these indictments when the next quarterly filings come out. the third quarter filing period ends the end of september. >> we didn't -- you know, we saw a big bump in fundraising for him after the new york indictment, the alvin bragg one, but the next two didn't lead to such a big bump in fundraising. is this just, do you think, because of the murch around the mugshot, or will we see an uptick in trend, going back to what it was like with alvin bragg? >> the murch played a significant role in trump's fundraising windfall this past week. the fact there was an image, something that could be put on t-shirts and coffee mugs, that really spiked fundraising. it gave people something to buy and something to purchase. in fact, it's not just the trump campaign that's really seized on this, this mugshot to make money. you're also seeing other

organizations, like, for example, barstool sports, the popular pop culture and spors website that basically has been doing its own t-shirts. this has really become a big money machine over the past four, five days. you're seeing people really being able to turn this mugshot into fundraising, into money. up next, house republicans come to the defense of donald trump in the georgia election interference case. we'll explain what the chairs of some key committees are now doing, straight ahead on this labor day weekend edition of "morning joe." ing? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need.

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♪♪ republicans continue to come to the defense of donald trump in all this. in a letter on thursday, judiciary committee chairman jim jordan ordered fulton county district attorney fani willis to turn over all communications her office has had with special counsel jack smith's team. the letter reads in part, quote, the circumstances surrounding your actions raise serious concerns about whether they are politically motivated. let's bring in attorney josh stanton. he served as counsel as perry law. was co-director at vanderbilt law, in addition to serving as a defender in memphis. mr. stanton, let me read from your piece for msnbc.com titled, "jim jordan is abusing his

power. fani willis should call his bluff." you write, if this was the request of the first of jordan's misfires, he may be entitled to more benefit of the doubt. but his shenanigans come on top of the dubious deeds that call into question his fitness for the office he holds. willis should call jordan's bluff is and remind me of the words that, the federal government, anxious as it may be, to vindicate and protect federal rights and interests, always endeavors to do so in ways that will not unduly interfere with the legitimate activities of the states, end quote." if it comes to litigation, the courts will see through jordan's efforts for the distracting and partisan political theatrics they are. the states and federal government powers are well-defined in all but the most extreme circumstances. this is not one. josh, let me start by asking you whether d.a. fani willis has any

obligation to respond to these requests from jim jordan, from the oversight committee. does she have any obligation to turn over documents as she tries to do her job in atlanta? >> well, at the moment, she's actually just received a letter from jim jordan, so at the moment, she hasn't received a subpoena. she wouldn't be under any legal obligation to turn it over, even if the subpoena would be enforceable. if she ends up getting a subpoena, i think the law is clear that she wouldn't need to turn over documents even under those circumstances. i was a public defender. i'm currently a criminal defense attorney. i can't tell you the number of times i wish i could have gone to a federal court or even to congress and said, "hey, this is unfair that my client, who is innocent, who has done nothing wrong, is being prosecuted here." it's just the case that in a state court, the federal government, federal courts, congress, they just don't have a place to be able to come in and request documents and figure out

what is going on in the head of the local prosecutor, whether it is fair or not. >> rev, as josh writes, this is a tactic jim jordan, the oversight committee, used previously with alvin bragg in the d.a.'s office and the stormy daniels case. this is an intervention on behalf of donald trump. >> and i think that it is clear, and i would like josh to address it, that we really are seeing, as they talk about the weapon sizing of the justice department with no evidence, they're weaponizing congress in areas that they really have no business even being in. and if you allow that to continue, you would have congress people decide to do their politics by committee summons or subpoenas or by committee inquiries, which really undermines the whole process of law at a state or federal level, josh.

>> right, exactly. basically what this is, it's taking what is really a routine state prosecution and, you know, that we can view, again, whether it's fair or not, and so many state prosecutions against individual defendants we may have differing views about, but congress has no place to question the individual judgment of an individual prosecutor in an individual case. there might be circumstances where congress could look at how are federal dollars being spent at this district attorney's office throughout a year, over many, many cases. there might be circumstances where congress has a place to ask, are civil rights being violated systematically? it is inappropriate for a sitting congressperson to send a letter, and we expect, a follow-up subpoena to try to interfere with a prosecution. up next, democratic member of the foreign relations committee, senator chris coons,

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♪♪ ukraine's military says it has retaken a key city on the southeastern front of the fighting. progress in its counteroffensive has been gradual amid entrenched russian positions. reuters reports ukrainian forces are on a path toward another key city in the hopes of reaching the sea. if successful, it'd split russia's military forces within two in the country and signal a shift in the dynamics of the war. meanwhile, new video released by a russian state-controlled broadcaster shows for the first time detained american paul whelan in prison. this is an undated video captured at whelan's prison labor camp, shows him working,

eating, interacting with other prisoners. whelan repeatedly heard telling the crew filming him he cannot answer their questions or conduct interviews. that is russian state video. joining us now, senator chris coons of delaware, a member of the foreign relations and judiciary committees and chairs the ethics committee. he also serves as co-chair for president biden's re-election campaign. senator, good morning. good to have you back on the show. the video of paul whelan, the context is that it's state video, propaganda of some kind from the russian government, but we see him. we don't know when it is from. what is your sense of where the negotiation is to get him home? >> well, these are hard negotiations. the biden administration is determined to work tirelessly to bring home every american who is unjustly detained overseas. paul whelan certainly is near the top of that list of many americans who are being held in countries around the world. one thing we are doing in congress, i have introduced a bipartisan bill that's in both the house and senate that would

make sure that when americans return from captivity, they don't face unjust fines and fees from the irs for a failure to pay their taxes while they were imprisoned. that actually happened to "washington post" journalist who, when he returned after more than a year in iranian prison, faced tens of thousands of dollars of irs fines and fees. it seems unimaginable that that's the actual practice, and it requires a change to law for us to make sure that hostages who are returned don't face that. we also have a bipartisan bill to create a national day and flag remembering those americans being held overseas unjustly that has passed the senate and we hope will pass the house later this year. >> senator coons, good morning. jonathan lemire. that certainly seems like common sense legislation, to not make people who are imprisoned overseas have to come back and pay and face fines for unpaid

taxes. want to talk to you about where things stand with ukraine's counteroffenses. as willie noted, slow progress but progress all the same. the clock is ticking in this fighting season with both muddy season and then a harsh winter on the horizon. where do you think things stand particularly now in the moment of yevgeny prigozhin's death and putin only tightening his grip on power? >> look, prigozhin was killed because putin makes sure that he exacts retribution against anyone who challenges him. there are a number of senior russian military officials who have been taken into custody or disappeared. i'll remind you, this is just part of a long string of putin's opponents, domestic and foreign, who have been assassinated, who have found their way out of seven story windows or who have consumed tea that was laced with radioactive materials or who were injected with poison and died. he has retained his control over russia for 20 years by brutally

suppressing internal dissent. prigozhin's effort roughly two months ago to march on moscow, i'll remind you, was partly caused by the strength of ukraine's opposition to russia's invasion. prigozhin was very critical of russian military leaders for their failures on the battlefield. i'll remind you that only wagner was able to make progress in the last year. they took the town of bakhmut at an awesome price, a horrible cost of 20,000 dead. without him and without his leadership, i wonder whether there will be any progress by russian forces. at the same time, ukrainians continue to fight fiercely, showing heart and determination. with new training and resources from the west, i am optimistic that their counteroffensive will pick up steam this month and later in this year. >> senator, let's spend a couple of minutes talking about china. an aging population, a young

population that is very -- that's vast and many of them unemployed, an economy that seems to be a bit wobbly. evergrand, one of the largest corporations in the world, may be on the verge of bankruptcy. what is going on in china? >> mike, you are right that there are significant economic and demographic challenges within china. their population, as you mentioned, is now going to begin to rapidly age, and they will no longer have the advantage of having one of the fastest growing economies in the world. one of the youngest workforces in the world. increasingly, that will be the case with the continent of africa, not with what was the most populous country on earth in china. mike, if i could, one of president biden's biggest accomplishments on the world stage recently, which didn't get the attention it deserved, was bringing together president yoon of south korea, prime minister kishida of japan, at camp david and emerging from their

trilateral retreat with a commitment from these three important democracies, right on the doorstep of china in the cases of japan and south korea, to meet annually, to do greater military exercises annually, to deepen our security and economi annually. it is important that president biden continues to work and to lead on the world stage to strengthen and deepen our alliances in the west, to confront russia's brutal invasion of ukraine, and in the east to make sure we are on a stronger footing in the indo-pacific. the prc under the brutal dictatorship of the chinese communist party has continued to struggle economically, and xi jinping's leadership on the world stage is increasingly being challenged by economic and demographic developments at home coming up, the biden administration's new move to reduce the price of prescription drugs.

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♪ ♪ relief could be on the way for millions of americans struggling to afford their prescription medications. this morning the biden administration is announcing the first batch of prescription drugs that will be subject to new price negotiations with medicare. joining us now, democratic senator amy klobuchar of minnesota, a member of the senate judiciary committee.

senator, good morning. it is good to have you on. >> thanks, willie. >> let's talk first of all about what some of these drugs are because so many people struggle just to pay for medications that get them through the day and what it means now that they're open to negotiation with medicare. >> so this is a huge deal, willie. we have been working -- i have led this bill for decades and finally with president biden's leadership, with aarp taking on the pharmaceutical companies on behalf of 50 million seniors and other senior groups, they're going to end their sweetheart deal, pharma is, where they were able to get and charge whatever they wanted to. so the drugs that are first announced, these are just the first ten. each year there will be more and more drugs, are things like eloqist and xarelto, many are

enrolled taking those drugs, things like jenuvia which is a drugs for diabetes. they have run multi-million dollar ad campaigns to lock in prices, and president biden and a group of us in congress, democrats, finally said, "that's it, we're taking this on." that means negotiation like you have with the va for prices for 50 million seniors in america. >> we are talking about drugs that help with diabetes, patients with argt rightes, crohn's disease, drugs that break up clots to prevent strokes, drugs that are critical to so many people. how does it work, if i'm someone who is excited to hear the news because i take one of the medications, what changes and how soon? >> so immediately you are going to start seeing negotiations with the drug companies this

year, and then there will be an agreed on price. remember, in the u.s. we are paying something like 250% more for our drug prices than other industrialized nations, and then the prices would take effect in the year or two. now, the insulin cap of $35 a month, that is already taking effect. the $2,000 out-of-pocket limit, something else democrats passed in congress and president biden led the way on, that's taking effect and free vaccines for things like shingles and pneumonia, those are in effect. our next stop, willie, is to work on making sure these prices we will see for medicare are rolled out for the rest of the country by pressure by passing additional bills. >> senator klobuchar, i would submit -- perhaps i'm in error, but i would submit if you wanted to take a focus group to get reactions, honest reactions from

people, does government work for you or not, it would be in the prescription line at cvs. i think the replies would be almost enormously negative, and you just indicated that after negotiations with pharma that the drug prices will be adjusted, many of them will be lower and price cuts will take place in a few years. my question is why did it take so long and my next question, why is it going to take another two years to get the prices lower? >> first of all, as i point out, a big game changer, insulin. you are already seeing that right now. remember this. the $35 monthly cap. now you are starting to see it for people that are younger than medicare age because it put so much pressure on the major pharmaceutical companies to bring the prices down. free vaccines, that's happening now. out-of-control limitations, that is happening in 2025. these prices are set -- the

negotiated prices to take place in 2026, but they could easily start hitting in early as the pressure on the market begins. why did it take so long? oh, my god. three lobbyist for every member of congress from pharmaceutical companies alone. they're around every corner. they're at every cocktail party and, yes, they've excerpted undue pressure. some of us stood up, including the president of the united states, joe biden, and said, enough is enough. this last year is when we finally reversed the sweetheart deal that was put in place decades ago under a republican president that basically insulated them from any kind of negotiation that you would see in any other agency of the government. it is not just the seniors who are spending too much money on drugs, it is the taxpayers who are paying for it through medicare and other programs and it is the taxpayers who are putting their own money into the research. it is an outrage.

republicans have resisted it and resisted it, changing the sweetheart deal. president biden got it done. >> and that does it for us this hour. we hope everyone has a great labor day weekend. coverage continues after a quick break. ♪ ♪ good morning. welcome to "morning joe." we have a couple more great hours on tape for you today on this labor day. we hope everyone is enjoying the holiday. we begin this hour with a conversation we had a few weeks back that received some of the best feedback we've ever gotten from viewers. a look at how much of a historical outlier donald trump is, the failure to secure a peaceful transition of power has happened only twice in this country's history. the first in 1860 when the

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