>> they want to be paid. i think anyone can understand that. julia boorstin, thank you very much for joining us. appreciate it. that's going to do it for me today on this tuesday. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. 4:00 in new york. there is brand-new reporting out today that shows that special council jack smith still is assembling a timeline. a potential criminal acts that took place in those crucial days after the 2020 election and that he may still be in the thick of it in the investigation into trump's accomplices and seeking to overturn the will of the voters. citing multiple sources familiar

with the investigation, cnn reports this, questions asked of two recent witnesses indicate smith is focusing on how money raised off those baseless claims of voter fraud was used to fund attempts to breach voting equipment in several states won by joe biden and squarely in jack smith's sights, unindicted co-conspirator number three, that's trump co-defendant attorney sidney powell. cnn reports this, quote, according to sources, witnesses interviewed by jack smith's prosecutors in recent weeks were asked about powell's role in the hunt for evidence of vote fraud after the 2020 election. including how her nonprofit group defending the republic provided money to fund those efforts. if team trump was literally trying to break into the voting machines after the fact, then the truth spun by chris krebs about the security of the 2020 election was a real fly in the ointment.

>> there is no foreign power that is flipping votes. there is no domestic actor flipping votes. i did it right. we did it right. this was a secure election. >> you can see now how that complicated things for team -- and he said he met with jack smith's investigators. we don't know if the new information in the reporting and the factor related but it is intriguing. as for sidney powell, the recent court filing, she admits her nonprofit defending the republic paid a forensics firm, quote, after the fact, end coat, to look into voting systems in coffee county, georgia. the voting machine breach in that county the day after the january 6th attack forms the basis for multiple charges in fani willis' sprawling racketeering case. the federal level jack smith also appears to be looking into

sidney powell's role in spreading the big lie, specifically conspiracies about dominion voting systems that you will recall led to fox news having to pay dominion up to three quarters of a billion dollars. cnn reports that former nypd commissioner bernie kerik, and another witness, were, quote, both asked if sidney powell was ever able to back up her various claims of fraud. including conspiracy theorys that foreign countries had hacked voting equipment. both were also asked about defending the republic and how it was used as a source of funding efforts to find evidence of voter fraud. jack smith's investigation zeroing in on the big grift and voting machine breaches and the tie between the two is where we begin today. tim haffy is here, former u.s. senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill is here, and former congressman from florida and msnbc political analyst david jolly is here. tim, what is jack smith looking

for? >> he's looking for more evidence of the big grift. we laid this out in great detail during one or more of our hearings and it is outlined in the report. a lot of people were profiting on this false narrative that the election was stolen. save america pac raised $250 million after the election by telling people that the election was stolen. sidney powell set up a nonprofit and legal defense fund in which those same lies led to a lot of people giving money. again, it is important to remember that there is just no foundation in any of those fund-raising solicitations. so jack smith is understandably interested in that because it could be a fraud scheme, right, telling people as a basis to raise money that facts that are just simply not appropriate and it is part of a broader plan to disrupt the joint session. >> i have some of the evidence

that you and your colleagues on the committee developed and i'll play that in one second. i have one more question for you. we all have this sort of cable news education in the power of broadcasting known falsities in a liable context. i wonder if you can tell us what the parallel is in terms of potential criminal exposure for raising money off things that you know are lies, are we looking at wire fraud? what crimes are they looking at? >> yeah, look, it is a scheme to defraud. if somebody says, if you drink this potion, you'll lose weight and people buy the potion, relying upon that representation, that's fraud, right? if somebody says if you give me money, i'll use it to do the following, i'll give it to refugee resettlement in our community, but you don't use it for refugee resettlement, you use it for other purposes beyond that which you indicated. that is fraud. wire fraud, mail fraud are

broadly crimes that broadly criminalize any scheme that is meant to deprive people of their money based on deception, based on falsity. that's what one of the many things that the special counsel may very well be looking at here. >> let me ask you, what do you think it says that this part of the investigation is active? >> i think it means that it is an ongoing investigation, right? just because an indictment is issued does not mean that everybody stops and the record is complete, right? the special counsel is continuing to gather facts. it is tricky because he wants a speedy trial and if there is a superseding indictment or additional counts against the former president, it jeopardizes that march 4th trial date. this could be something that will come about if it ripens into evidence of control conduct, which it very well may, to other charges against other

people. the former president was the head of this conspiracy, but there are others that haven't yet been charged federally. so he's continuing a pace. he's continuing to look to pull threads and based on leads to gather additional information. that is appropriate and fairly common in criminal justice world. >> let me show -- i reminded myself, i watched some of this earlier today, to remind myself with this part of the congressional investigation looked like. watch. >> between election day and january 6th, the trump campaign sent millions of fund-raising emails to trump supporters. sometimes as many as 25 a day. the emails claimed the, quote, left wing mob was undermining the election, implored supporters to, quote, step up to protect the integrity of the election and encouraged them, to quote, fight back. as the select committee demonstrated, the trump campaign knew these claims of voter fraud were false, yet they continued to barrage small donor donors with emails encouraging them to

donate to something called the official election defense fund. the select committee discovered no such fund existed. >> i don't believe there is actually a fund called the election defense fund. >> is it fair to say the election defense fund was another, i think we've called it a marketing tactic? >> yes. >> president trump created a separate entity called the save america pac. most of the money raised went to this newly created pac, not to election litigation. the select committee discovered that the save america pac made millions of dollars of contributions to pro trump organizations, including $1 million to trump chief of staff mark meadows' charitable foundation, $1 million to the america first policy institute, and a conservative organization which employs several former trump administration officials, $204,857 to the trump hotel collection, and over $5 million to event strategies inc., the company that ran president trump's january 6th rally on the

ellipse. >> one more question for you, tim. i don't -- i'm not on trump's mailing list, but i do see his appeals and they're still using these messages. they're still raising money predicated on the lie. thing about grift is ongoing. what do you do about that? >> because it works, because it has been so successful, lying to people and getting them spun up about false allegations of voter fraud has been hugely successful to that organization. the only thing i would add to the clip from the video presentation is that a lot of that money from the save america pac went to pay the legal fees of witnesses who were called before the select committee and have been called before the special counsel so there is this sort of circular pattern of people being told the election is stolen, they give money and that money then goes to fund legal fees to witnesses who then either don't appear asserting some privilege or don't recall a lot of relevant information.

that's what happened with cassidy hutchinson and others who appeared before the select committee. >> i mean, david jolly, circular is one word for it. it is stinks to high heaven. maybe this is the way we describe the political arena. to this point that it is ongoing, that's what i want to deal with now. this is some great reporting from cnn about questions being asked recently of witnesses about what appear to be very serious potential crimes, if they bear out, and if they're charged. but the larger grift is happening right now. if you were to step away, please don't, but if in the echo system, closer than you might think, these lies are being spread, donald trump is raising money off them, they're -- it is all metastasized, it is almost, i don't want to say too late, but almost part of the new normal and the information ecosystem on the right.

>> yeah. it is donald trump's platform to return to the white house. if you boil down his essential message, that's it. look, a bunch of fakes, frauds, liars and grifters that is donald trump, sidney powell, rudy giuliani and everybody who supported the conspiracy to defraud the united states which is the charges brought by jack smith and because of the work of tim and the committee, i think we know there is this bigger element of how did the money flow, who touched the money and did fraud occur? in some ways it is surprising we haven't seen charges yet around the flow of money because that is such a didactic threat and easier charge in some cases, but i think to tim's point, because this remains open and because of the solid reporting that jack smith is continuing to investigate it, we may see charges against the former president as it relates to how money flowed or we might see charges against others that then ultimately perhaps are used to cooperate in this case.

the bottom line, though, and to your point, it is still the message of donald trump and frankly it is the message of a lot of the other republican candidates running against him for the nomination because they have failed to stand up to him -- to this point. donald trump is going to seek to be re-elected on the message that the last election was stolen from him and he needs to return to the white house for retribution to fix all of this. it is a dangerous time. >> yeah, and i guess, claire, to that end, the danger that it represents to the entire democracy and everybody living in it, not the sail yens of the political message, david is right. that interests me less than the contamination of disinformation. it is now completely co-mingled with what everyone is getting ready as a country to perhaps turn to. the kickoff of, if you will, of a presidential election season. and i think it is a moment to sort of stand up and realize that we're not setting up for a battle of ideas, different ideas about national security. they are very different. you got one guy who wants to be

in access with his friends, the autocrats and joe biden who has done largely unappreciated things on the world stage. you have the other side in our politics so completely intermingled with alleged criminality and the lies they told that they want to cleave out the lies now at the root of criminal charges and ongoing federal investigation, they're still raising money off of them. how do we disentangle those things and deal with them truthfully? >> you know, it is a cancer that has spread. over the weekend, a story broke here in st. louis that a state senator who is running for governor by the name of big eigle was sending out fund-raising emails from a company in virginia, and these emails are echoing exactly what trump is saying, the left wing mob, biden is coming after him, we got to -- and it reads like it is trump in a very fine print at the bottom and it says it is

for bill eigle. and this woman, they got a hold of a woman in arizona who giving him $10 and didn't know she checked a box to send it to him every month and she checked a box and doesn't know who bill eigle is. not only is trump doing this, but the rest of the republican party is emulating him to commit fraud against these small donors that has now become the life blood of the republican party. small donors, who are being lied to, who are being suckered into giving money. and so it is a serious disease. the cancer has spread and the only way i think it gets solved is for some of these people to go to jail, in prison, period. >> claire, to your point, i understand and i think we all have come to really appreciate the legal strategy behind jack smith's narrow indictment of trump and only trump. do you -- are you surprised that there hasn't been more state level action on the fraud

because these are -- the citizens of their states that have checked the boxes either wittingly or unwittingly being billed every month, evidence developed by the committee made clear they were not particularly transparent in their legal defense fund-raising. >> yeah, i think part of the problem here for prosecutors is our democracy has been so hollowed out by the misinformation and the plethora of lies that are being told that so many jurors would say, well, they all lie. why is this guy going to jail for lying? all politicians lie. the cynicism has gotten so serious that it is unfortunately a truth that many jurors would probably balk at convicting some of these people for lying because they have been convinced that this is something that everybody does in politics. >> it is something -- like looking at the sun, hard thing to acknowledge about politics, particularly if you loved your

time in politics, but it is a sad reality we all have to grapple with. david, i want to come back to sidney powell. and what she may have been doing or what we understand from cnn is being investigated. and that is more contact, i think that's the most generous word i can use with voting systems. i hope we're not at a point where we gloss over how crazy that is and it brought back why chris krebs had to go. his firing was abrupt, even by trump standards, right? he said it was the most secure election in american history, and off with his head. he was fired immediately. and attacked viciously. it is clear that that message could not co-exist with what trump's team was trying to do. >> yeah. the other thing chris krebs didn't say in that piece you aired is the only person trying to interfere is donald trump.

and to your point, you know, one of the most glaring charges or facts in fani willis' report and i know that tim's committee touched on this as well is the physical tampering with voting machines in georgia. and that's where not only sidney powell is in a lot of trouble, but mark meadows finds himself in a hard place to say, hey, i was just supporting the president, no, he wasn't. he was supporting the physical tampering of election equipment in georgia and that's where this gets very dangerous. dangerous for our democracy and for our republic because if they had succeeded, they would have disenfranchised american voters in a critical election and undermined our democracy. i think your question to claire is right, how do we stop it? i agree with claire, more people have to go to prison, but we must be at the ballot box, beat back this movement pretending to be a political movement. this is not a political movement. donald trump started a cultural movement and parked it in the republican party and the danger in the cultural movement is how it gives aid and comfort to

white nationalists and xenophobia and racism and misogyny and all these other critical things in the name of retribution and protecting one's place in society. this must be beaten back at the ballot box. it is a heavy burden for democrats to carry in the next november, but they must succeed. >> there is so much in what you just said, look a two-hour program's worth of conversation there. i want to come back to you, tim, on -- i just need to freeze frame on this idea that we're still two and a half years out talking about what we still don't know about the efforts to meddle with the voting machines. i know that there was great investigative work done into trump's idea or plan to seize voting machines in the pentagon or homeland security. do you think that we'll get to the bottom of what exactly they thought to do to make sure that they don't do it next time? >> yeah, look, i think we're getting there. i've always believed that the

special counsel will take additional steps beyond those which the select committee was able to take. because he has some increased legal tools. i'm glad you mentioned the military and the sizure of voting machines. the ultimate destination of this access to actual votes, actual voting machines, was a potential move to have an executive order issued to allow the u.s. military to seize voting machines. that would have required legally some evidence that a foreign power somehow penetrated and it was a national security threat our voting machines. that was discussed at that crazy december 18th meeting in the oval office where sidney powell, mike flynn, and the overstock guy were there advocating this and the president of the united states was there, you know, thinking, sounds like a good idea, maybe we should try that.

that's where this was going. and the ultimate -- the use of the military to seize voting machines, it is crazy. no factual foundation, no legal provision which would allow that. i do think jack smith is understandably exploring this. i think it is yet additional evidence of motive and intent here, the willingness to consider crazy steps like this, all designed for the ultimate goal of disrupting the joint session and preventing the peaceful democratic transfer of power. >> this is a question that needles on me and maybe you have a theory, maybe you don't. do you think -- this is the one and only part of the coup giuliani ends up on the right side of, seizing voting machines and using the military to do so is too far for giuliani. do you think that's what he walked in and talked about and why don't we ever hear anything about mike flynn? >> a, your first question, yes,

he talked to us about that. he and powell had a breach here. they had a conflict over this issue and perhaps other issues and they're no longer sort of working on the same team. they share the same goal, which is, again, preventing the election from being certified for president biden, but they don't share -- they're not aligned on every tactic. flynn and burn, hard to say. powell's a lawyer and comes with this executive order, right? she's sort of more directly involved, unclear other than general support what flynn, because he's military, this would have been a military exercise, patrick burn, a little bit of a wild card, demonstrates the lack of rigor that mark meadows imposed in terms of access to the president in the oval office at the end. there was no gate keeping, no rigor on who had access to the decisionmaker. and that's ultimately the president's fault he was willing to entertain these kind of crazy

ideas. >> never gets uninteresting too. to pick at these threads you pulled for us. tim, thank you very much for starting us off today on this news. claire and david, stick around for the hour. when we come back, we're waiting for the sentencing to be handed down for the former leader of the proud boys, enrique tarrio, for his role in the january 6th insurrection. he'll likely join four other member of the right wing extremist group who all received pretty significant jail time in their sentences. the contrition is not seemingly part of the deal. what they're saying even from behind bars. we'll tell you about it. two of the ex-presidents' closest pals, two of the chief adversaries, are set to get together to meet up and for ways to make the world less safe. what the white house is saying about that and a possible -- about a possible vladimir putin and kim jong-un meeting in russia. and trump has said he always has his eyes on the flippers, to

look out for them. that's what he calls them. reporting on whether some of trump's own co-defendants in georgia could become flippers themselves and turn against him in the multiple criminal cases he's facing. all those stories and more after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e stories andr a quick break. don't go anywhere. million botoxs have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®.

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what do you want to call him? give me a name. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. >> after he made this comment, enrique tarrio, then chairman of the proud boys said on, standing

by, sir. mr. tarrio said, make no mistake and we did this. later on that evening, mr. tarrio posted a video which seemed to resemble him in front of the capitol with a black cape. >> that was the former lawyer for the january 6th select committee marcus childress describing the critical role that enrique tarrio former national leader of the right wing extremist group the proud boys played in the attack on the united states capitol. his sentencing is under way as we speak. the judge ruled that the terrorism sentencing enhancement applies to tarrio, which places the sentencing guidelines for him between 27 and 33 years. his fellow proud boys, joe biggs, zachary rehl, ethan nordean and dominic pezzola were

sentenced to years in prison there is reason to believe they had not had a deterrent effect. over the weekend, joe biggs, on the stand on thursday, tearfully proclaiming that he knew he had, quote, messed up that day, called into right wing extremist disinformation specialist as well as his former boss alex jones' radio show. here is some of what he said. >> i know he'll pardon us, i believe that with all my heart. the thing is hopefully getting him, you know, for him to be able to get into the position where he can at least be,i think, on the ballot to run, right? >> you have one minute remaining. >> i do believe donald j. trump will pardon us, but he should. we didn't do anything. >> joining this conversation, marcus childress. he led the committee's investigation into the rioters at the capitol including the

proud boys and was a member of the team that deposed tarrio. claire and david with us as well. what i have to ask you, does tarrio understand, marcus, that trump could have pardoned him, could have pardoned them all, could have pardoned rudy, could have pardoned meadows. do they really think that he couldn't have pardoned them in the 15 days he was still president after the insurrection? >> look, i think he has to know that. our committee deposed tarrio for approximately seven hours and there were two things that stood out to me in talking to him. one is that he definitely plays for the audience he's talking to. so, you just played the clip, we know after december 19th, president trump said be there, it will be wild, enrique tarrio organized and he plays to who he's talking to in that manner. when he talked to us on the committee, he minimized his

involvement and leadership. he talked about how the proud boys didn't do anything wrong, they were trespassing in the capitol, walking in. that's a different tarrio than what we saw on social media leading up to january 6th and afterward. he wasn't much different than the other rioters we talked to. a lot of them still had unwavering support for former president trump, still believed he was going to pardon them. but tarrio was the leader of the proud boys and we know the violence through the evidence we developed that the proud boys put on the capitol and members that were working at the capitol building that day and that was the real difference, but he has to know but he wasn't that much different than many other rioters we talked to. >> there is something chillingly remorseless about these gentlemen, screaming, i think it was -- last week, it wasn't -- i'll get the exact name of who

it was. one of the sentencings at the end of last week and screamed trump won. >> pezzola. >> yes. there is no remorse for the violence they acted upon on that day because they still believe in the lie behind the insurrection. how does that figure into the defense strategy or is it really just as tarrio said there, to get a pardon from trump if he wins again. >> i haven't had a chance to read the full transcript. one thing i did see is that the prosecutors said or argued we can't normalize this type of violence. i think that is something that is core to how we should be viewing the sentencings for the proud boys. that was an incredibly violent day and tieing it back to the current investigations we're seeing now from the special counsel, i thought that was a critical piece of the special counsel talking about former president trump exploiting the violence, which is why we made a point during one of our hearings to talk about the inaction from former president trump as this was going down. the court also noted that

enrique tarrio his mindset as this was going on was important for the court to consider and this was shown in the indictment and through the presentation of facts where tarrio at 2:38 tweeted out for rioters not to leave the capitol. a little later he tweeted how we did this. it shows a sense of pride during the most violent parts of the day at 2:38, when rioters were really pushing in on the west plaza and making their way toward the house chambers inside the capitol, it shows a pride in the violence they saw because the goal of that day was to prevent the lawful transfer of power. >> david, tarrio reveals himself as a bit of a news junkie, aware of the 14th amendment perhaps making it difficult for donald trump to be on the ballot he said in that clip. i suppose he could be talking about something else, but he says if he's on the ballot. maybe he's been reading laurence tribe in his free time. what do you make of these folks in the news and we cover them

for a lot of reasons, but chief among them is because they became part of the ex-president, the leader of the republican party's inner most circle. >> yeah. and, i think very importantly for the batch of sentencing we're seeing now, tarrio, stewart rhodes, the other proud boys, 15 years, 18 years, who knows what tarrio will receive, it is important to recognize as marcus said their motives were all the same as all the other participants on january 6th, their stories are so substantively different in terms of their contribution to the insurrection that day. tarrio was not the dallas real estate agent who flew to d.c. for this march and did things and so perhaps gets six months in jail. tarrio set about to plan and orchestrate and encourage the violence to stop the transfer of power. tarrio is also in and out of the criminal justice system for two decades. at times being arrested and

tried himself and other times allegedly as an informant. he has a very kind of complex criminal justice profile. stewart rhodes on the other hand, someone who just got 18 years, is a yale-trained lawyer who worked on capitol hill, someone with no excuse really for saying, oh, i just -- it got out of hand. i think that's the interesting thing for the batches of these sentences. we're now at point of looking at the leaders of the insurrection, absent donald trump thus far, but the real leaders of the violence on that day being held accountable and 15 years, 18 years, 20 years is appropriate for their actions that day. >> it is just amazing. roger stone had relationships with some of these individuals and we just hear nothing about him. as soon as this sentence for enrique tarrio comes down, we'll break into whatever we're covering and bring it to you. thank you for being part of our coverage today. david jolly, thank you for starting us off today. after the break it was

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disturbing part of today's news might be that he wasn't invited. call it dictator fomo. we're talking about what the white house identifies as a possible in person meeting between two men trump almost always speaks glowingly about. kim jong-un and vladimir putin. the meeting may happen, if it happens, in russia. and it is reported to be a discussion about arms sales to aid in moscow's war in ukraine. if trump had prevailed in 2020, how would this meeting be discussed by his white house? recall how much donald trump has publicly gushed over these two autocrats, both of them accused of heinous crimes, usually against their own people. >> are we close to seeing mr. kim here at the white house? >> could happen. he's the head of a country and i mean he's the strong head, don't let anyone think anything different, he speaks and his

people sit up at attention. i want my people to do the same thing. reporters asked me if president putin was smart. and i said, of course, he's smart. i was greeted with that's a terrible thing to say. yes, he's smart. they asked me if putin was smart, yes, putin was smart. how smart is kim jong-un, top of the line. people say this and that, really smart. these are very smart -- putin, very smart. >> so much more where that came from, but out of an interest in ending our two-hour program before our dear friend stephanie ruhle comes on at 11:00 p.m. eastern, we stop there. still, it is an international relationship to keep our eyes on, right? especially as trump seeks to reclaim the presidency and is the republican front-runner. joining our coverage, former supreme allied commander james stavridis is here, and claire is with us as well. take it away. i don't know what to say.

>> well, let's start with these two characters. this is a page right out of the godfather, corleon meets -- these are two pariah nations led by killers and we can debate their level of intelligence, but they are killers, both of them. both of them kill their opponents, they rule with an iron fist and how any u.s. president can speak in warm terms of either one of them is simply astounding. point two, it is a dangerous alignment because in the jerry maguire language, you know, they complete each other. kim has got lots and lots of conventional weaponry that putin would love to get his hands on, and putin has the high tech military capability, nuclear submarine technology, satellite

technology, that kim would love to get his hands on. both of them are kind of posturing together and i'll close with this third point, all this is happening immediately after a big meeting in south africa of the bricks. brazil, russia, india, china, south africa, that's an antiu.s. alinement. putin is trying to show himself on the stage, it all helps following the prigozhin rebellion, see point one about he's a killer, public execution of prigozhin. these are two bad actors, we have to recognize them for what they are and recognize the real danger in their align ment. >> there are things that trump does that are not newsworthy, but remarkably ignorant or remarkably crass or beneath the office of the presidency and things he does that are so remarkably terrifying and

dangerous that don't get the proportionate amount of coverage because maybe we can't see them from here. can you take us through the view from moscow and north korea on having an american political figure who is currently 30 points ahead of i think the second -- the first runner up in the republican primary, who says that vladimir putin is top form, that kim jong-un in the letters were love letters. there has been some reporting that some of what trump took with him to mar-a-lago, some of what he treasured the most were his letters exchanged with kim jong-un. there is a photograph of mar-a-lago, not of trump and a western leader, not of trump and chairman of the joint chiefs, nothing nice to say about general milley, doesn't have anything nice to say about mattis or kelly, he has a picture of himself and kim jong-un. >> indeed. and let's also take it from

their perspective of how exciting it is to both of them, the prospect of trump being re-elected. and that, i think is where they are focused and particularly for vladimir putin who stumbled into this terrible misadventure that is destroying his military, wrecking his economy, in ukraine, he is absolutely salivating at the potential for a return to the office of donald trump because he thinks that that would undermine support for ukraine and he's unfortunately probably right in that regard. the second point to be made here is all of this occurring in an age when artificial intelligence is going to gradually increase the capability to penetrate into the social networks, to shape viewers' opinion. so, the potential from both moscow and pyongyang, the

capital of north korea, is that they can combine all this to try and have real impact on the u.s. elections and that, i think, ought to terrify us even more than the prospect of huge amounts of conventional weapons flowing from north korea to russia. >> we're going to bring claire in. we have to sneak in a quick break first. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. break first. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. being middle class right now, it's tough making ends meet for sure. republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. right. joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. capping the cost of drugs like insulin. cracking down on surprise medical bills and all those crazy junk fees. there's more work to do.

tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote.

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providing weapons to russia for use on the battlefield to attack grain silos and the heating infrastructure of major cities as we head into winter, to try to conquer territory that belongs to another sovereign nation is not going to reflect well on north korea and they will pay a price for this in the international community. >> national security adviser jake sullivan this afternoon at the white house on the blossoming relationship between north korea and russia. claire, not for nothing, it is not just a new and alarming relationship between two autocrats. it is bolstering a leader in vladimir putin who is credibly accused of carrying out war crimes and atrocities on the battlefield in ukraine. >> yeah. it tells you how what bad shape putin is in, that his lifeline is to north korea. and as the admiral said, both of these men are thugs and killers.

kim jong-un kills his own family members for power. and the thing that really jumped out at me when i read this story was what kim jong-un gets out of this. and this is what people need to think about. yes, he wants nuclear technology for thug who has invaded another country and killed thousands of innocent people. think about that for a minute. this is a guy that trump's in love with. i wish that americans could see how the people in north korea live. they are destitute. so he's got plenty of money to have weapons, to give to putin a fellow bad guy, but in return he needs food to feed his people. talk about down the rabbit hole. talk about upside down. it is really disgusting. >> claire, because we've had enough, i'm not going to play this, but this is what trump said about kim jong-un, this man who starves and in some

instances murders his own family members. quote, trump, house smart is kim jong-un? top of the line. you know, people say oh this and oh that. really smart, you know, when you come out as a young man at 24, 23, even though he sort of inherits it, most people when they inherit it, they lose it. which is almost funny. i guess he would know. and that's not easy stuff. he took over a country of very smart people, very energetic people, very tough people at a very young age, and he has total dominant control. it's not easy. he is a -- very smart. putin, very smart. and claire, again, i don't want to gloss over this, what he admires what you're describing, a leader who has in trump's words very dominant control. starves and punishes his own people. >> and by the way, i'm surprised -- not taking a plane to hang out as trump's surrogate. now there are other republicans

parroting this, that somehow the bright shining star of liberty and democracy and a military that we can all be proud of, that somehow now we want to worship at the altar of these two jerks. it is astounding to me that this is taking hold in the republican party to the extent that it has, that somehow defending ukraine is not what america should be doing. >> yeah, i want to ask you about that, if you saw that moment in the republican primary debate where it wasn't just a given that the united states of america stands with a democracy in a fight against autocracy, that that is now part of the rumble on the right. >> it's shocking. it's also ignorant. and, you know, we don't have to imagine how things would come out if we isolated ourselves, stepped away from the international world, let nations like ukraine just fall in the grip of dictators like vladimir putin. if we walked away from south

korea, it would take kim jong-un 20 minutes before he would attempt an invasion. we know what that looks like because it all happened in the 1920s and the 1930s, exactly 100 years ago, the u.s. stepped away from the international system, isolated ourselves, created huge tariff barriers, if that sounds familiar, and you can drop a plum line to the great depression and the second world war and the inherent rise of fascism. history has shown us how this movie turns out. so we in the center, we on the left, we in the sensible part of the right, it's incumbent that we all push back on this infantile notion that we can simply walk away from all this, let the strong, smart guys do what they will. the weak will suffer what they must. that's greek philosophy from

2500 years ago. it's not where we want to be in the modern world. >> you know, claire, i wont how you think -- this is in joe biden's heart. this is all how he sees the world. i think this was maybe not as public facing, but this was some of the earliest and most intensive work that his white house did, reassembling and strengthening nato and standing with ukraine and president zelenskyy. how does this conversation play out in a campaign context where american campaigns, even before, you know, the 20 character social media message brought it all of our minds, mine included, how does this conversation in your view play out most effectively for president biden in the presidential election cycle? >> well, no one knows more than the admiral how important nato is to the security of americans. and i think americans suffer from not understanding the

threat, because we've never been invaded by a foreign country other than 9/11. we have never felt insecure in our national security. and i don't think they understand the threat. but i do think joe biden can use the aspirational part of america, the inspirational part of america that we do stand for something other than power and might. we stand for certain ideals, ideals that people should have liberty and freedom. you know, the republicans have tried to corner the market on freedom for several election cycles. they're going have trouble next year doing that because of what they've done around women's rights and what they're doing on the international stage. the west is united for a reason. it's the ideals we believe in. and i still think that's important message, especially for swing voters, that we can be better than the bad guys. we don't have to join them. we can be better than they are.

>> well, claire, i guess the ex-campaign operative in me is starting to twitch. there is the negative piece of it too. there is inspiration and aspiration, and that's what you're for. but there is an urgent need to point out what you're against. i think if you're joe biden, what you're against is leaning in to the bromance between kim jong-un and vladimir putin for all the reasons the admiral just articulated. do you think that is a conversation that the country's interested in having, or does it not matter? we need to have it? >> well, the only problem with that conversation is you have to spend a lot of time and energy making sure people understand how bad putin is and how bad kim jong-un. we understand that. as 12 years on the armed services committee, i certainly understand it. but most americans, especially those that are captured in the thrall of donald trump, i think that he is going to have to spend some time explaining the bad things they have done and the consequences if we don't separate ourselves from those kinds of men. >> unbelievable.

unbelievable conversation to be have. it's unbelievable moment in which we are living, and i'm grateful to both of you. admiral james stavridis and claire mccaskill. thanks so much for having this conversation with us. up next, flippers and bolton. what is happening behind the scenes with his criminal co-defendants. there is much more news ahead. don't go anywhere. where. however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric.

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david: california's community schools: reimagining public education. this whole thing about flipping, they call it. i know all about flipping. for 30, 40 years i've been watching flippers. everything is wonderful, and then they get ten years in jail

and they flip on whoever the next highest one is, or as high as you can go. it almost ought to be outlawed. it's not fair. >> it never gets old. why has he been watching them for years? and he was the president when he said that. he wants to outlaw government cooperation? hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in new york. in comments like those that sound more like they'd come from a movie character in the godfather or something less than the godfather, rather than at the time the sitting president of the united states, trump making clear his feelings on individuals who cooperate with the government to save themselves from serving prison time, or to lower their sentences. those remarks at the time he was president, they were about his former lawyer, michael cohen, when cohen pleaded guilty to his role in that hush money scheme. of course, he was making payments on behalf of donald trump. but those comments apply very fittingly today as a brand-new fantastic piece of analysis in politico takes a close look at

some of trump's current defendants who are beginning to turn against him in the multiple criminal cases he faces. politico writes this, quote, in court documents and hearing, lawyers for people in trump's orbit, both high-level advisers and lesser known associates are starting to reveal glimmers of a tried and true strategy in cases with many defendants. portray yourself as a hapless pawn while piling blame on the current kingpin. it's not uncommon for co-defendants facing serious prison time to point fingers at each other to make themselves look less culpable to eventual jury. but rarely has it played out in such an extraordinary fashion where the alleged ring leader is a former president. so far we've seen it play out in the classified documents case where an i.t. manager at mar-a-lago recanted previous false statements and gave prosecutors brand-new information after switching lawyers. he went on to implicate donald trump and the other co-defendants in that effort to delete the security camera footage at mar-a-lago. in the fulton county

racketeering case, three individuals who acted as fake trump electors for georgia after the 202011, david shafer, kathy latham and shawn still all said they were acting at the former president's direction. they said so as they attempted to move their cases to federal court. former white house chief of staff mark meadows also making that attempt to move his case to federal court. and last week in testimony before a georgia judge, he said he did things relating to the fake elector scheme because trump wanted him to. meanwhile, all of the georgia defendants are on the same page when it comes to their appearances, or should we say lack thereof for their arraignments tomorrow. each of the 19 charged in the indictment have pleaded not guilty and waived their rights. former top justice official msnbc legal analyst angie weissmann is back with us. plus reporter for the atlantic

journal constitution is with us. betsy, we started with politico's great analysis today. take us through what you guys are detecting. >> what this captures is a theme that's just becoming harder and harder to ignore as so many criminal cases against the former president and his associates are advancing forward, and as there are more and more hearings, filings, public-facing conversations while people realize that the jeopardy that they themselves are in is not about to go away. and a lot of this just frankly comes back to human nature. people don't want to be in trouble. they don't want to be convicted of crimes. they don't want to spend time in prison. and when that possibility goes from hypothetical to extremely real, it shapes and changes the ways that they behave. it also makes them suddenly much more comfortable, much more amenable to going after people who previously they had claimed to be entirely and unbreakbly

loyal too. and of course, as you noted, the most dramatic example yet that we've seen of that is mark meadows himself taking the stand at that hearing in georgia just in the central moment in terms of the way that trump's former allies are lining up more and more to criticize him and to blame them to try to get themselves out of legal jeopardy. >> i mean, andrew weissman, i guess it may be a good defense. it also has always been apparent that that was the truth, that it all came from trump. trump was the one working the phones. in the middle of covid, i remember him tweeting at state legislators to come down to the white house. he has always had his hands on the steering wheel of the coup. and i guess my question is what is the strategy as a prosecutor in the room with some of these defendants. the truth is he could have pardoned all of them. he pardoned none of them. he pardoned all the colluders

and none of the coup plotters. what do you say to these guys? >> yeah, so there is no question that this was done for him and at his behest there would have been no reason to do it for him without him being involved and knowing about it. so this is something that they did sort of at his bidding and for him. obviously, each defendant had their own personal interests as to why they capitulated. and you're correct, nicolle, that if you're a prosecutor, you play that up that he was the head of the conspiracy and that he's perfectly willing to let them hang out and dry as the people holding the bag. remember, if donald trump were to be elected again, there is a very good chance that the state case would be paused as to him, to donald trump, but not as to everyone else. so if you're a prosecutor, but you're saying to those 18 people, it's now or never.

if you're looking to actually cooperate, not just point the finger in filings, but actually to be a cooperating witness in order to lower your sentence upon conviction so you don't go to jail, this is the time to do it. but i would note with respect to the really great reporting, it's important to separate out what lawyers are doing and in court filings in order to distance themselves from being tried with donald trump. because nobody wants to be at a trial with donald trump as a defendant. there is a difference between that and actually cooperating, as was done, as you mentioned, in the mar-a-lago case with respect to the i.t. person which is actually cooperating and going to be a witness at trial. so there is still that gap. but as betsy points out, we're getting closer to people getting sort of inching their way toward that trajectory from distancing

themselves from donald trump to actually being a cooperator for the government. >> tomorrow, it is my sense from here, and please correct me if i have this wrong that district attorney fani willis was entirely prepared from all these efforts from all these individuals to move their cases from state court to federal court. just tell me what her plans are and how -- i mean, it doesn't appear there are any bumps in the road or surprises on the legal front. but just take us through what the coming days and weeks look like in terms of the case she has prepared to bring for those asking for a speedy trial. >> sure. so right now all of the 19 defendants are still together. it's looking like ken chesebro, who was involved in the alternate elector plot, he demanded a speedy trial. that has been set for october 23rd here in fulton county. that could change dramatically, depending on this federal removal push from mark meadows,

because it is entirely possible that if one defendant gets removed to federal court, they all get removed. so there is a big question mark around that. and just today we saw a new motion -- sorry, a new court order from judge scott mccaffey that the fulton county court be in charge of matters at least for the time being. he asked the court to lay out their timeline in terms how long they think a potential trial could take, how many witnesses and exhibiting they're expecting to present. and what's clear in that new order today is that the judge is still open to trying all 19 defendants together. justice d.a. willis has asked for. it's interesting that is not off the table desk, spite motions from ken chesebro and others to sever themselves from the other defendants. to wait to see how the judges rule in the coming cases, especially mark i don't understand. tomorrow we're expected to see

arraignments from all 19 defendants. all 19 have waived their rights to that and all have pleaded not guilty. so we'll hear more from the d.a.'s office tomorrow as judge mccaffey takes on the motion to sever. and from him and sidney powell. >> betsy, there is an interesting thing going on in georgia among georgia republicans. kemp's comments last week, we covered them on the show where he makes clear in his view it is unwise and inappropriate to go after fani willis in any way, shape or form. he happens to be one of her star witnesses. he and raffensperger and others make the case that she ultimately charges when she charges the criminal enterprise. what is your sense of how they're dealing with -- i don't know unexpected is the right word, but at this point, a pretty steely team i guess of political speed bumps in georgia. >> the politics in this state

are so interesting and challenging for trump, because, of course, his legal strategy for himself is entirely also a political strategy. those two strategies are married. and for trump to get reelected, it runs straight through georgia. so it's very much a state where his legal and his political fates are indeniably intertwined. and the politics for georgia are tough. because the republicans who are winning statewide in a state that used to be redder than red are people like governor kemp who have been simultaneously very idealogically conservative, but also comfortable in some limited but key moments breaking dramatically from former president trump. and definitely without a question, the subtext of the comments that kemp made last week when he pushed back against these calls for him to somehow try to punish or malign the district attorney for her work against trump, the subtext of that from kemp's perspective is very much i'm here without

trump. i don't need trump. my political fate is in my own hands. trump is not his problem anymore. he proved that when he won reelection in the aftermath of the 2020 debacle. that's why for trump, watching both what's happening politically and what's happening legally in the state, for him as his reelection collide was his legal challenges, georgia is existential. and that's why the politics of the georgia republican party who is in charge of the gop, how it gets managed is going to be one of the most interesting stories, not just legally, but also in terms of politics and campaigns over the next year and change. >> andrew, as betsy is talking, i'm trying to think what the federal parallels are. while you don't have any members of congress out there really defending jack smith you do have bill barr, the most dangerous place to be is between bill barr and a camera when he wants to talk about the strength of jack smith's cases against donald trump. you've also got chris christie, asa hutchinson who are out there

from the right, trying to win a republican primary, talking about the strength of the evidence against donald trump. i wonder what you make? because i think we talk a lot about how trump's legal strategy is his political strategy, but maybe not enough about how that impacts the legal process. and you've now got a trial calendar just thrust right into american presidential politics season. >> well, i think the other name that i would put into that mix of conservative voices that will have, i think, some effect on the legal system is judge luttig, because he is, as you know, you've interviewed him on this program, is somebody who was revered by so many people in the republican party that is so-called bush republicans. he was short-listed repeatededly

to be on the supreme court. and while people on the left may disagree with him in terms of his politics, he's clearly a man of principle. and so i think what he, for instance, spoke out prior to judge chutkan picking her march trial date, he said repeatedly and gave his voice to the fact that he thought it was important to the country and entirely consistent with due process that the former president be tried before the general election. well, that's what judge chutkan did. she could have done it even without that voice. but i think it's an important voice to be heard. i think that his voice on the pending legal issues both at the state and federal level is going to have considerable influence. remember, this is the 11th circuit that is going to be hearing cases on appeal in this

matter in the d.c. circuit, and in the supreme court. he is still a voice with such deep respect from the left and right that i do think that he will have an effect as a voice of reason and also really putting politics aside and bringing us back to a time when we only thought about politics, but not about the rule of law in our democracy. >> i mean, it's an interesting -- i'm glad you broadened the conversation to include the role of judge luttig, because i sit around sometimes, and i'm sure george terwiliger and judge luttig know each other. it's such a small conservative circle, that stature, of that level, and you've got one is the criminal defense attorney for the, you know, the organizer of trump's coup, and the other making a constitutional argument

that trump shouldn't even be on the ballot. it's a remarkable collision. and it represents i think, andrew, this ongoing sort of violence of ideology, of pushing your principles aside. i guess i don't know terwiliger enough to know what they are. but everyone who deserves a good defense as they do. then you have luttig putting it all on the line, making this argument, putting secretaries of state on the spot to answer questions about whether they'll look at the 14th amendment. how do you -- how do you think that is going to shake out, again, in the context of this extraordinary moment where trump is far and away the front-runner for the republican nomination? >> so i have two maybe sort of inside points here. one on the defense lawyer side. and i've been a defense lawyer. there is no question george terwiliger is an excellent defense lawyer, and certainly in the constellation of people we've seen. mark meadows has ended up with

an extremely good and effective and ethical lawyer. but i do know that for many defense lawyers, there is sort of two issues. of course everybody -- issue one is everyone is entitled to be represented and to have effective, zealous representation. but that doesn't mean that you personally have to do it. and that's one of the reasons that we've seen so many reputable people say they were not going to represent donald trump. so this is a decision that defense lawyers are having to make as to whether they can essentially for lack of a better term, hold their nose. the supreme court is my second point, which is that there are issues, and this is sort of previewing for our viewers, there are issues that will end up in the supreme court, such as presidential immunity. that's going to be true for the georgia case it's going to be true for the d.c. case. and the real issue is whether the supreme court is going to

decide those rapidly, because the one sort of wild card, for instance, in the march date that judge chutkan picked is whether the supreme court will step in and say that the trial has to be delayed because it's going to hear pending legal issues. and obviously, this is the first time in our history that a former president has been charged. there are open issues. of course there are open issues, because we've never had to deal with this, thank god, the country has never had to deal with this. but that is the one open issue, and that's why i think voices like judge luttig are so important because of the arguments that will be made to the supreme court. >> all right. you open the box. i'm going to keep running through it, andrew. luttig thinks the 14th amendment cases will end up before the supreme court before the election. do you agree? >> i do, i do think that. >> wow. >> the big issue is whether they will issue a stay of any of the

trials or exactly what their time frame. of course, the supreme court is not known for being very rapid in deciding matters. but they have, for instance, obviously bush v gore being a notable example. >> never boring when andrew weissman is around. tamar hallerman, thank you so much for bringing us your reporting from georgia where the conversation started. andrew and betsy are stick around a little longer. we are moments away from a sentencing decision in proud boys leader enrique tarrio. plus the start of contempt of congress for top aide peter navarro. he faces criminal charges for refusing to comply with the january 6th committee, and he could face jail time. that decision is next. plus, a major decision today by a panel of federal judges that could help democrats win back control of the house of representatives. why republicans in alabama are being sharply rebuked again for

their attempt to dilute the power of black voters again. and later, the heads of the army, navy, and air force are slamming far right maga republican senator tommy tuberville as his one-man crusade against the puig abortion policy is doing deep lasting damage to our military readiness. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break with all those stories, so don't go anywhere. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -baby: ah. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ ) the first fda-approved rsv vaccine. arexvy is used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. arexvy is proven

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results of the election in the six battleground states. we believe that if the votes were sent back to those battleground states and looked at again, that there would be enough concern amongst the legislatures that most or all of those states would decertify the election. do. >> you realize you are describing a coup? >> that was my colleague ari melber interviewing former trump white house adviser peter navarro. we show it to you because today peter navarro is on trial for contempt of congress charges after he ignored subpoenas from the january 6th select committee last year. navarro has pleaded not guilty to those charges, even though he ignored subpoenas from the committee. for weeks after the 2020 election was called, peter navarro worked with fellow trump adviser steve bannon on a plan they called the green bay sweep in which members of congress would contest the electoral

results from six swing states without any evidence and halt the counting of electoral votes on january 6th, without any evidence of fraud. navarro was subpoenaed by the january 6th select committee but refused to comply with that subpoena, claiming he was prevented from testifying by donald trump's claim of executive privilege. but a federal judge last week rejected that claim, ruling that navarro had not produced sufficient evidence that trump has ever invoked privilege or directed him not to cooperate. if he is convicted, navarro could face up to one year in prison and a fine of up to $100,000 for each count. let's bring in to our coverage my colleague nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, ken, take us inside what happened here today. >> when navarro, nicolle -- and i should add, we're waiting for a sentence from enrique tarrio literally any minute now. >> you don't have to look at us at all. you stair at that phone. you're here doing multitasking

for us, as is always the case on this show. >> fair enough. >> navarro, and if you get tarrio, just switch gears. >> will do. so peter navarro, they picked a jury in his case today. it's really an incredible situation. he showed up. he is happy to talk to reporters, and he mentioned that the legal fees in his case alone will probably be more than a million dollars. he is still holding out this idea that somehow the supreme court is going to save him from this prosecution because he believes that he was protected by executive privilege, even as you mentioned a federal judge in a presounding decision there is no evidence donald trump ever invoked executive privilege to protect mr. navarro from that subpoena from the january 6th committee, no written record of it, no testimony, no nothing. and it's not even clear he would have been covered if trump had done that. but there is just really no leg to stand on there. and as a result, it's a pretty

open-and-shut case. there were two subpoenas for his testimony and for documents. he refused to comply with them. he is facing two counts of contempt of congress, as you said, a year in jail for each one, $1,000 fine for each one. the only real question were they lawfully served? did he refuse to comply? and that's it for him. and he is in serious legal trouble as well as obviously a deep financial trouble. >> okay, ken, don't go anywhere. go ahead and check on our other big story that we're watching for, that tension. i want to bring andrew weissman in. peter navarro makes me want to have a conversation about whether there is a section for a worthless lawsuit, for wasting everyone's time and energy. as ken said, the judges rebuked him. there is no executive privilege. there is no -- doesn't seem to be a very good chance the supreme court is going to take this one up. and his glee in sort of being out there, clogging up the discourse seems like obviously it's his right to be out there

speaking and, and my colleague ari melber's face sort of says it all. it seems like on the legal merit, just as ken dilanian said, pretty open and shut. >> i always hate to say that a case is a slam-dunk, because you never know. but i completely agree with ken. this is open and shut. there really is no defense here. but just to be clear, this is unlike in a civil context. in a criminal ken text, a defendant is entitled to simply go to trial, even if the proof is overwhelming because the government has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury. so mr. navarro is entitled to do that. it is one of these things where i remember when i have tried very, very strong cases, you basically have to remind the jury, because sometimes the jury looks to see what's the issue here, like why are we going to

trial? because it seems so open and shut. but the issue is simply a matter of our constitutional process, which mr. navarro is entitled toe, but i don't think this will be a terriblebly long trial before the judge. there is reason to think he may follow the same sentencing regime that was followed with respect mr. bannon when he was convicted of almost identical charge, and mr. bannon was sentenced to four months in prison. so i would expect that judge maeda would do something either identical or fairly close, which is not throwing the book at somebody, but that's because the sentencing guidelines are very low with respect to essentially this kind of contempt, even though a lot of judges think it should be sort of higher sentencing guidelines gwynn the significance of the crime to the process that congress was engaged in. >> betsy, this case seems to

epitomize the point you're making earlier about the indiscernible nature of trump's legal strategy and political strategy. that seems like it was exhibit 1. this seems like exhibit 2. >> yeah, no question. and what's really singular about navarro's case, which without a doubt is extraordinarily helpful to the prosecutors handling it is navarro didn't just say trump invoked executive privilege and that that prohibited him from talking about privileged material. he went way further than the vast majority of trump administration alums who also raised the issue of executive privilege. he didn't talk to the committee. he didn't give them a privilege log. he didn't say "i searched for documents that might be responsive to the subpoena. i found a bunch of them. i'm not giving them to you, but i'm going to tell you what the documents are." that would have been the standard move. that would have been what any lawyer, even the most avowedly

conservative supporter of the unitary executive theory, even the most pro-trump lawyer would have said this is what you should do. you should at least engage. you shouldn't treat this committee in a way that quite literally can be defined as contemptuous. navarro didn't just say executive is a problem. he said privilege keeps me having to engage with the committee in a constructive way pretty much whatsoever. that's the characterization of navarro's interaction was the committee as the committee has presented it, and i know of course as the federal prosecutors bringing the case against navarro are presenting it as well. and again, very similar in tone, similar in mood to the way trump himself has long treated law enforcement officials who have eyed his dealings and eyed his actions. >> betsy woodruff swan, thank you so much for starting us off and sticking around with all these rolling breaking developments. we are for our part still waiting for that breaking news,

the sentencing of enrique tarrio expected any moment now. we're going to try to sneak in a quick break. if that doesn't go well, we'll bust right out of it and be right back with that news. stay with us. ith us

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a federal court today rejected alabama's latest congressional map created by republican lawmakers in the state in defiance of a ruling by the supreme court which found that alabama's existing map violates a landmark civil rights

law and ordered lawmakers to create a second majority black district, or, quote, something close to it. the new congressional map created by alabama republicans still had just one majority black district. so in the order today, the three-judge panel offered a sharp rebuke, writing this, quote. we are not aware of any other case in which a state legislature, faced with a federal court order declaring that its electoral plan unlawfully dilutes minority votes and requiring a plan that provides an additional opportunity district responded with a plan that the state concedes does not provide that district. now court-appointed special master will be tasked with drawing a new map ahead of next year's election. joining our coverage retired u.s. marine corps lieutenant amy mcgrath is here, and former maryland congresswoman and msnbc contributor donna everetts is here. i mean, we covered this with

former attorney general eric holder i think after the first court defeat when the supreme court ordered them to go back and try again. they try again and they do the same thing. amy, what does this tell us about the republican commitment to disenfranchising voters they don't want to be able to vote? >> well, to me, i mean, take the court stuff aside, this is a party, the republican party that increasingly knows that it is losing power. they represent the minority of americans. their policies are not what the majority want, and they know it. and this is a long-term thing. and what they're doing, what you're seeing here, they know to keep power, they have to just cheat. and this is what they're going to do. and they're going to try it every way, shape or form to claw back some power and to keep it. and this is just another way.

disenfranchising voters, going against what the court has said you have to do, they're going to continue to do it. and good on the courts for striking it down again. >> i think there is a thing that has to be taken from this from sort of democrats and independents in the pro-democracy side, amy, where i think you stand and of course where you stand, donna, and that is the brazenness that they are almost lacking shame. they are lacking things from holding you back from trying to do the audacious over and over again. i want to read more of the rebuke from the judge for alabama republicans. quote, we are disturbed by the evidence that the state delayed remedial proceedings, but ultimately did not even nurture the ambition to provide the required remedy. the court told them to do this, the supreme court. quote, and we are struck by the extraordinary circumstances we face. the law requires the creation of

an additional district that affords black alabamians like everyone else a fair and reasonable opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. the 2023 plan plainly fails to do so. donna, your thoughts. >> well, keep in mind that this was the republican legislature's second bite at the apple. they had two chances to do it, and they did not. the supreme court said you're not complying with the voting rights act. the lower court and this three-judge panel, of which two are republican appointees said the same thing, and essentially, the republican legislature thumbed their noses in the face of the court. and i think hence the very strong rebuke from this panel. you have republican legislatures essentially saying we're not going to obey a lawful court order ruling handed down by the supreme court.

another mandate by the lower court. and we're just going to completely ignore it. and it goes to the larger question of increasingly republicans' willingness to just go in the face of the rule of the law. this is another rejection of the rule of law. and the court is saying we're not going stand for it. and as a result, the panel has ordered a special mast they're master that is going to draw the lines for them. it's as strong as possible, but it's not even clear then that republicans will stop there, because the attorney general has already said we're going to immediately take this up to the supreme court. and i expect the court is going to come back and say, you know what? we meant what we said the first time. you were violating the voting rights act, and you must comply with this court order. >> i want to do one more thing. as alabama republicans did this, florida governor ron desantis

said "hold my beer". this as a judge in florida has ruled in favor of a voting rights group that filed against a congressional redistricting map approved by ron desantis in 20 two 2. voting rights groups had criticized the map for diluting political power in black communities. a ruling in florida has put this back in the news. i think it's just important, amy, to sort of shine the light whenever we have the opportunity with these legal developments on the national strategy. i mean, it is to your point that if you can't win under the rules, change the rules. and that has been operationalized by the republican party at every level. >> absolutely. and, you know, i've been saying this for a while. you know, this is not a party that's interested in governing. they are interested in the rule of law. they are increasingly no longer the party of national security. you know, and this is what they have to do to maintain power,

because they're increasingly in the minority. we know structurally that the reason they have the power they do is because of the electoral college, because of the way the senate is drawn, and, you know, how their elected that way. we've got the presidency being -- when it goes to the republicans, they don't win the popular vote. they're getting there because -- and they still are in the minority. and they have no path forward. and so this is what they're going to continue to do, to try to cheat. but to the pro-democracy side, those of us that care about the rule of law and care about a democracy, we have to continually stand up to this, because it's going to erode our democracy from within if we allow the republicans to continue this stuff. >> it is amazing. i mean, everywhere you look, there are examples of republicans doing just what you both described. all right. i need both of you to stick around a little bit longer. ahead for us, i want to turn to

another story we've focused a lot around here. the heads of the army, the navy and the air force say that senator tommy tuberville's one-man block on military promotions is now having the corrosive effect on america's fighting forces. what it will take to make the ex-football coach turned senator stand down on this devastating crusade he is on. we'll have that story next. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs.

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now into republican senator tommy tuberville's dangerous really unprecedented blockade of military confirmations and promotions. in protest he says of the pentagon policy of simply offering active duty military families the same access to the same reproductive health care when they are stationed in the united states of america that they would have access to if they were stationed to anywhere in the world. that's it. as a result, there are now three military branches left without confirmed chiefs in place. and it is now prompted the secretaries of the army, navy and the air force to warn tuberville in a new "washington post" op-ed about how he is single-handedly, quote, actively eroding the found decision of the u.s. military advantage. quote, pulling our national security at risk as well as having a corrosive effect on the military and a personal toll up and down the chain of command. quote, these jobs and dozens of others across the force are being performed by acting officials without the full range

of legal authorities necessary to make the decisions that will sustain the united states military edge. we're back with amy and donna. amy, i think it's amazing that the republicans don't see this for the political stain on the republican party that it is. that republicans are now behind an effort to weaken the military. >> absolutely. and, you know, i feel like i'm a broken record here on your show talking about how bad this is for our national security, and it's great the service secretaries came forward. if you remember, a couple of months ago, we had multiple former secretaries of defense from both sides of the aisle essentially saying the same thing, that this hurts our military. it hurts our military readiness. it hurts our national security. and if you take a step back and look at what's happening, we have no confirmed commander for indo-pacific command right now. it's sort of the most strategic command around the world. no pacific fleet leader right now confirmed.

no commandant of the marine corps or chief of naval operations. this has ripple effects all the way down to in personnel, for their military families, and also it affects our strategic decision making, because we can't give guidance to the troops. a lot of times in these operational commands, these leaders are the ones that work with other countries, with other militaries around the world in order to deter aggressors. and right now in a time when we have vladimir putin doing what he is doing in ukraine, we have the chinese, you know, and their rise in the south china sea, we have to have strong deterrents, and we have to have a unified military. and what they're doing is absolutely hurting our country right now. and it's insane. >> amy and donna, i'm asking you to stick around. proud boys leader enrique tarrio has been sentenced to 22 years in prison for charges including

seditious conspiracy. this becomes the longest sentence so far among all january 6th cases. the judge said this, quote, mr. tarrio was the ultimate leader of the conspiracy. on the stand, tarrio said that, quote, my candidate lost, and these police officers deserve better. despite referring referring to enforcement authorities as gestapo forces in the days after january 6th. his fellow proud boys were sentenced last week. their sentences ranged from 10 years to 18 years. andrew weissman, 22 years, the longest sentence so far in the department's january 6th prosecutions. your reaction? >> sure. so it's worth noting that the enrique tarrio, the head of the proud boys was just sentenced to 22 yearsening. compare that to stewart rhodes, the head of the oath keepers who was sentenced to 18 years. so here judge kelly thought a

significant stronger sentence. judge kelly in sentencing him made various statements, clearly quite moved saying that january 6th, it can't happen again, and repeated, it can't happen again, that the strongest message has to be sent. in reference to tarrio referring to a member of the proud boys which he led, comparing him favorably to george washington, the judge said, quote, it slanders the father of our country to speak that way. so clearly this is a judge who took what happened on january 6th very seriously. and my final point is this is not a good thing for donald trump. i have said this repeatedly. it's obviously just a prediction, but for the judges in d.c. like judge chutkin who have seen all january 6th cases, the leaders of the proud boys and oath keepers doing

significant time. the idea general, the person who you have pointed out who is alleged to have led this and for whom they were acting, the idea that donald trump will not be sentenced to jail if he is convicted seems remote to me because the judges are living through this and seeing all these other defendants. and it's an an @ma to them and the law that people who are underlings would get this sentence and the leader would not. >> i think increasingly we can't separate these two things. i want to read more from what the judge said. quote, i don't have any indication that he, tarrio, is remorseful for the actual things he was convicted of, which is seditious conspiracy, end quote. we are now in a position where the sentencing of this individual and the recognition from the judge, if there's an absence of remorse, cannot be taken away from or unsort of dising a ra gated from the fact

that donald trump is running with these guys. standing behind a podium where the insurrection plays behind him. i think it is just a haunting and chilling split screen. >> absolutely. remember, you're seeing these sentences handed down by judges who were appointed by democrats and republicans, it should be pointed out. by judges who were appointed by donald trump himself. in other words, for people who think they're trump judges, these are judges who are just as appalled as anyone else at the severity of the crime here and clearly understand what it means to our democracy. this is a really significant sentence. 22 years is quite a lot of time

to be handed down and i think vl a reflection of trying to pick a sentence that's commensurate with the harm inflicted not just on the people that day, which is significant enough on january 6th, the people in the capitol -- law enforcement, congress people, staff, but to the country as a whole. and i think judge kelly's comments that this cannot happen again if we are to have a democracy is, i think, the thing that is animating the severity of this sentence today. >> to your point, andrew, i want the read more. obviously the sentence applies to this defendant. but there is a real awareness of the moment in which it comes down. let me read a little bit more about how this started. this is the judge speaking about the harm done on january 6th. quote, that day broke our previously unbroken tradition of peacefully transferring power.

quote, that previously unbroken tradition is broken now, and it's going to take time and effort to fix it. just a remarkable gut punch about damage done. again, to your point, not just by these now convicted criminals, but by the conspiracy and by the spectacle and by what the world saw, this peaceful transfer of power, something cherished by the victors and those who come up short in our elections, has been broken. >> and nicolle, it's so interesting. i'm here in d.c. now, and i've got the capitol behind me, and the d.c. court is just down the street. and the difference between the court system that is saying that the rule of law upholding what it means to be a democracy, upholding the right to vote, upholding the peaceful transfer

of power, that is what it is going to stand for and cherish, and the symbolism of the district court in d.c., the federal court here upholding that principle when, you know, over my shoulder there's an actual debate within congress, and there were over 100 people who sat in that body who were fine with actually undermining democracy on january 6th -- to me that's what's remarkable, the fissure that is going on in this country but also represented by two major institutions in this town, one the judiciary, which i think has largely held up quite well, and the legislature. >> andrew weissman, thank you for standing by. i want to give the judge the last word.

i don't have time to talk about this, but i want the read this. his not being present did serve some strategic purposes. did allow the lieutenants to rile up the crowd and did from his perspective insulate him in just the way he's arguing now. makes you wonder how perhaps a future judge will look at others who weren't there that day. we'll pick this conversation up tomorrow if you are able and willing. quick break for us. we'll be right back. k for us we'll be right back.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. we played your clip with navarro earlier so i feel like i saw you already today. >> we have been in this mode, just on tape. >> your face should have been nominated for every award in television. they're unbelievable. hmm, hmm. >> it's funny you say that. we're going to be covering mr. navarro's trial today. when you're listening as you do. >> i don't. have you seen me with