follow the show on all the social media platforms @mitchellreports. meanwhile, "chris jansing reports" starts right now on msnbc. good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. is it fair or even feasible to try 19 people, including a former president of the united states all at once? georgia prosecutors now with just days left to prove to a georgia judge that it can be done. more on that and the d.a.'s bid to keep the identities of the jurors secret. she says don't even describe what they look like. plus, new details about the possibility that the president's son hunter could face a federal indictment before the month is out. what we're learning about the charges and the chances it could impact president biden's bid for re-election. and mike pence goes scorched

earth on his old boss donald trump insisting the former president's followers are trading true conservatism for personal grievance and, quote, performative outrage. with his poll numbers in single-digits, pence saying trump is more like joe biden calling the two men an echo of one another. will they get to that as well later in the show. but we start with a real and palpable shift, away from the hundreds of years that january 6th rioters will combined be spending in prison now to the sharpening contours of the georgia case against the alleged architects of the plot to overturn the 2020 election. because while we know the first of the trials for donald trump and his 18 co-defendants is set for just 46 days from now, the totality of the prosecutions will be complicated and lengthy. more than 150 witnesses just for the prosecution side, who knows how many for the defense, and if

the judge is right, a trial that could last as long as eight months, twice what the prosecution is planning for. and today there's new focus on security for the jurors in however many trials are actually held in georgia. late yesterday, fulton county d.a. fani willis filed a motion requesting that the court bar anything that could be used to identify those jurors. photos, court sketches, even written descriptions in an attempt to keep the jury safe and impartial. we've also got breaking news just within the past 30 minutes. this time coming from d.c. where the grand jury that dated donald trump on election interference charges is meeting again today. this is the first time we've seen them at the courthouse since they handed out the indictment more than five weeks ago. so much to get to, let me bring in nbc's garrett haake. lisa rubin is an msnbc legal analyst, catherine christian, a former assistant district attorney at the manhattan d.a.'s

office and an msnbc legal analyst. lisa, let me start with that -- your reaction to the fact that the grand jury is meeting. what could that mean? is this unusual? >> i don't think it's unusual at all. i do think that it necessitates thinking about why they're meeting again. a grand jury doesn't come together just to investigate new facts on an existing indictment. if a grand jury is meeting, it's because they are continuing to investigate other crimes potentially by other new defendants. but we know according to public reporting that jack smith and his team have been looking into fund-raising related allegations and specifically with respect to the money raised by save america and what happened to that money after it was raised. >> all right, katherine, what's your reaction? what does your experience tell you might be going on here? >> there were six unindicted co-conspirators. five of them have now been

indicted by the fulton county d.a. so as lisa said, they can't investigate the current -- the indictments already done. they can get new evidence, new defendants, new crimes, and that's what the special counsel is doing. and it will be interesting if any of the co-conspirator number one, two, three, four, five, six will now be indicted. i don't think they will be indicted and joined with -- you consolidate indictments because the whole point of indicting donald trump by himself is that you can have this trial happen on march 4th, but you can have a separate indictment. so it will be interesting whether or not that's going to happen. >> do you think, lisa, that this is largely going to be a vote? do you think this is something we could hear about very quickly? >> i don't know, chris. obviously as you said, this is the first time we've known this grand jury to be meeting in five weeks. my guess is if we're looking at either a superseding indictment, meaning a secondary indictment

coming from the original one against donald trump where those co-conspirators, for example, are named to become defendants, i don't think that's likely to happen, but i think that would take more than just a day. assuming that this is, in fact, the first time they've come together in more than five weeks, i think we're looking at a number of meetings among that grand jury in order to get to a new charging instrument. >> let me shift you back to fani willis. this filing that she put in, i'm not experienced at reading these, but when i did read it, i thought, wow, that's a lot of specificity. it made me think she is really, really worried about the potential of what might happen to some of these jurors. how did you read that? >> i read it with two hats on. i read it with my lawyer hat on and my journalist hat on. i covered the e. jean carroll trail where the jurors were also anonymous. the jury selection process was open to journalists and we could report some kinds of details that fani willis would like to have not reported here, those

include age, race, occupation, employer of those chosen to be part of the jury, and from a, you know, public interest perspective, i think it's important for people like our viewers to understand who's serving on this jury, what is the composition of the jury of these defendants' peers looking like. on the other hand, this is fulton county, georgia, this is a criminal case. it's not a defamation and civil sexual assault trail, and it's not in new york city, and so the danger and the potential danger to these jurors is real. and i trust that judge scott mcafee will balance between the public interest and the desire and need to keep these jurors safe. >> so katherine, we've talked about the upside of televised hearings. this could be a potential risk, right? you want to protect the jury, but what about the rest of the people involved in the case? part of fani willis's argument in that filing is that she's gotten threats, right? she used those as an example of

what they could face. the attorney, the assistants, court employees, is there even a larger potential risk here? >> well, in terms of the jury, tv trials happen all the time, and you don't see the jury. usually you'll hear the clerk say and the jury is entering the courtroom, and the cameras turn to the judge. the cameras turn to the parties. so i don't think -- this ruling of the judge, i agree with lisa will be balanced. you will not see the jurors photographed or videotaped. that will be a direction by the court. they will be anonymous, the same way as lisa mentioned they were in manhattan on the civil rape defamation case. i don't know whether or not the judge is going to say you can't say there are five women and seven men, and you know, this number of black people, this number of white people. that might be overbroad, but i think there is that danger here when you do have it televised. it should be televised, but now people -- people who may not be

well will see what the prosecutors look like. we'll see what the defense look like. she posed this as a fair trial issue, that the defendants are entitled to a fair trial. we just assume that the people who are negative and who will be looking out to, you know, tamper with the jury will be people who are pro-trump. there could be people also anti-trump saying you better make sure you convict him. posing it is a fair trial issue. >> lisa pointed out to me before we came on the air that she signed it herself. this is not something that one of the assistant d.a.'s put out there. one of the big other unanswered questions, katherine, is whether a federal judge is going to say these cases should be moved to federal court or even if he says no, whether he could be reversed on appeal and essentially does that put the georgia case on hold? is this something that could be resolved in a few weeks? could it interrupt an ongoing trial? help us understand what's happening with that? >> well, we're all waiting.

the statute specifically says while the removal proceedings are happening, the litigation, the state case continues. so the state case will continue. obviously it will like require the prosecutors in the state case if, you know, there's continued litigation, and there will be because there are four other defendants who want their case to be removed. i don't think they have a chance, mark meadows does, but the three false electors, their filing is basically ridiculous. but if it is removed as to mark meadows, he certainly -- will the d.a.'s office appeal, if it's not removed, you can guarantee that mark meadows is going to appeal. but the state case is supposed to continue it under the statute. >> fani willis has a lot on her plate, potentially multiple trials. obviously security concerns. there's also this move by house republicans to get documents from the d.a., and i understand that fani willis just responded. what do we know? >> yeah, that's right.

we've seen similar efforts here from house republicans to get information about the various prosecutions in federal court and in new york state court, they have attempted to do so here in georgia, and in a nine-page response, fani willis's position can basically be summarized as thank you for your interest. now go find something else to do. she writes in part that their interest in this case, she says is an obvious effort to interfere in the case they're doing, to obstruct a georgia criminal proceeding is her exact words and said there's no justification in the constitution for congress to get involved here at all. she goes on to in the length of this letter say that she will voluntarily respond to some things that jim jordan asked, but really it's a brushback pitch basically in the form of a letter. she says if congress wants to get involved, for example, you could make it so folks like lindsey graham who she had come testify to the special purpose grand jury can't fight for weeks or months at a time to avoid having to come testify. she says that's the kind of useful thing congress could do here. this will not be the end of this. you're going to see a lengthy

back and forth between jordan and the house judiciary committee and fani willis's office over different pieces of this like we saw in the new york case in the spring, but for now at least, fani willis has filed her response by the date it's due, and it's not going to satisfy house republicans. >> obviously there's a political aspect to this, but when you're talking about something like obstruction, and you're talking about something that will occupy at least some of her time, is there potentially a real legal impact of this. >> i don't think that there is. i mean, i trust that fani willis has some folks in her office who are equipped to deal with jim jordan and his efforts to interfere with her information, while keeping the trains moving on time with respect to this 19 defendant case that, you know, for two of them at least goes to trial on october 23rd. the detail in this letter indicates to me that she is resolute in not allowing anyone to interfere with her

investigation, whether they're a member of congress or not, chris. >> there's also been a lot of talk about whether once we get to that point, donald trump testifies because he indicated that he would. this is his conversation with hugh hewitt. these are the classified documents case. here's what he said. >> i think that obstruction trial is going to get to trial, mr. president. >> at trial, i'll testify. >> and if you do and they ask you on the stand, did you order anyone to move boxes, how will you answer? >> i'm not answering that question to you, but i'm toemt totally covered under the law. if you read the presidential records act, just read it, you take a look at it. i'm totally covered under the law. it's a civil act. it's civil. >> what's fascinating to me there is he said i'm not going to answer the question, and he doesn't directly answer the question about whether or not he moved the boxes, right, but he can't stop himself from saying

something, and that's, i think a little glimpse into potentially if he took the witness stand what donald trump the witness might be like. what do you think the chances are on what kind of witness he would be? >> he's not going to testify. i can't -- it just will be a gold mine for any prosecutor. i mean, you'll have days of just what we call impeaching his credibility from statements he's made, the judge will limit it to the past ten years, just, you know, lies, misrepresentations throughout his whole career. so he can -- this is all for the public. he can go on tv and he can say these things, you know, for his base, and unfortunately making inflammatory statements that might also taint a jury, but i can't imagine in any world where donald trump would actually take a stand and be cross examined. >> catherine christian, lisa rubin, garrett haake, to be

continued. richard engel live in kyiv with his exclusive interview with secretary of state antony blinken, how his call for aid to ukraine could run into a roadblock on capitol hill. we're back in 60 seconds. ds fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. want luxury hair repair that doesn't cost $50?

pantene's pro-vitamin formula repairs hair. as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. we have exclusive new reporting today on ukraine. in an interview in kyiv with nbc's richard engel, secretary of state antony blinken said that the ukrainian military has taken back 50% of territory captured by the russians in the last year. still, the russian attacks continue, at least 17 people were killed in air strikes in the donetsk region just yesterday, and that includes a child. richard engel joins me now from kyiv with more of his exclusive interview. richard, what were your main takeaways from your conversation with the secretary? >> reporter: so i think he was strong talking about the

counteroffensive, and he and other officials that i've been speaking to, ukrainian and american officials are saying the same thing, that they are starting now to see progress in the counteroffensive, that it has been so slow going, so hard fought over the last three months, but they are starting to see some more than increment changes, and i think that is a significant change and we will see how far it can go. one official described it a little bit as a breaking point. you don't know when that breaking appoint is going to come. you keep applying pressure. you keep applying pressure, and then you start to see splinters, and then eventually you could see cracks emerging very quickly, and that is what they are hoping will happen with the russian front lines. they're starting to see splinters and that's giving them hope. one of the things i asked him about, however, is the point of his trip here. he came here to highlight what's going on in ukraine, but also to

reassure the ukrainian government that the biden administration and the american people are still with them and still support them and will be with them for the long haul, and a lot of his public statements while he was here, he's left kyiv now wrapping up his trip, have been about the long-term commitment, how it's important to make sure that this kind of thing nevada happens again, that there is a sustainable relationship, and i asked him if he's -- if he's misleading the ukrainians to a degree. do the americans have that in mind? because recent opinion polls suggest that support for funding this war is starting to wane. there was a poll in august that showed 51% of americans believe that the united states has already done enough, and then in "the wall street journal" just today, there was a poll that suggests that 62% of republican

primary voters believe that too much has been done already by the united states. so i asked him, how are you squaring these promises for long-term support with what seemed to be poll numbers that don't exactly bear that out. >> this is tough. this is hard, but i also wanted to be here at president biden's behest to reaffirm to our ukrainian partners that we're with them. we'll remain with them, and not just us, many other countries around the world. >> will remain with them. but opinion polls suggest that americans might not be in this for the long haul. so are you making false promises? >> first, i believe part of my responsibility, part of my job, and this is true for the president and then the others in the administration is, of course, to talk to our own people, to continuously try to make clear what's at stake, not just for ukrainians, but actually for us and many other countries around the world, if

we allow this aggression by russia to go uncontested. if we allow that to go forward with impunity, you open a pandora's box. it would be a recipe for conflict around the world. that's not a world that americans want to live in. >> and one thing i'm hearing from ukrainians, not just ukrainian officials but ukrainians that we come into contact with every single day, don't give up on them, that they are very tough, they are very dedicated. this country remains united. when you go out on the street, you see people every day wearing blue and yellow. they're supporting their soldiers. they're sacrifiing a tremendous amount. they say ukraine has been underestimated from the beginning and russia has been overestimated from the start of this conflict, so they are confident that with continued american and international support, they can breakthrough these russian front lines and

restart this conflict and bring some momentum to it. >> such a great interview at such an important time, richard, thank you so much for that. and you can catch much more of his interview with secretary of state blinken. that's tonight on nbc news "nightly news." as you just heard him reference, the support in the u.s. for ukraine could be in jeopardy, punch bowl is reporting that kevin mccarthy and house gop leadership are considering a short-term spending bill that does include billions in disaster relief but leaves out aid for ukraine. that sets up a showdown not just with president biden but also senate republicans. mitch mcconnell said yesterday it's not the time to go wobbly on the issue, and there is no excuse not to continue support for ukraine. joining he now is sabrina sing, deputy press secretary at the pent gone. it's so good to have you here. if i could pick up on the question that richard was just

asking the secretary, and that is concern among the american people, which is reflected in polls that this war has gone on much further, much longer, and cost billions more than they expected at the start. so what is the administration's argument, explanation to win over those skeptical americans who say is this just going to keep going on year after year? >> reporter: well, thanks, chris, so much for having me. i think what secretary blinken laid out is exactly that. we know that ukraine needs our support right now in their fight against russia. russia invaded their sovereign neighbor, and if we did nothing and the international community did nothing and just stood by, what kind of message would that send our adversaries? >> so we are with ukraine, and not just us, over 50 nations are part of the ukraine defense contact group aiding ukraine, supplying ukraine with the weapons and support that they need, and we're confident that we have the bipartisan and bicameral support in the congress to make sure that aid continues to flow to ukraine as

they continue this fight against russia for their sovereign territory. >> i just want to make sure, you are confident of that. you don't think there's going to be a long or dragged out fight on this. you think it's truly a minority against continuing this aid. >> i can't predict the future, but i think there's a majority in congress on the senate and the house that support ukraine. we have members from both sides of the aisle that have actually gone to kyiv and sat with president zelenskyy and visited and met with ukrainian troops. they've heard the real stories on the battlefield, and so i think it's incredibly important to emphasize that there is support in congress and that we here at the department are incredibly appreciative of the support we've already received and continue to receive from both sides of the aisle. >> another big issue that you're facing, republican senator tommy tuberville continuing to hold up military promotions over the defense department's abortion policy. now the civilian leaders of the army, navy, air force, wrote that op-ed arguing and i'm going

to quote them here, any claim that holding up the promotions of top officers does not directly damage the military is wrong. plain and simple. we heard a lot when this started about the potential damage, but now i think it's six months into this hold. what damage can you tell voters has resulted from these empty posts and how confident are you that this is going to get moving, frankly? >> well, it's concerning that the senator who sits on the senate armed services committee does not understand the impact that these holds have, and for the first time in history right now, three out of our five military services are opering with just acting officers in these positions, and you're asking what the impacts are. at a time when the threat of russia continues to grow with the ukrainian war waging on, with the rising challenge of china in the east, with iran and irg krrk groups continuing to harass commercial vessels and

our sailors, this is a time when we need to show our adversaries and our allies how strong we are. and that strength comes from the senate confirming our leadership in positions all around the world. these are the folks that are going out and interfacing with our allies on a daily basis, and it is a strong message to send when you know that you have -- the american people, the senate confirmation from the senators in the senate behind them, and so it's incredibly damaging not just for our readiness, but for our national security and greatly impacts military families who are right now in this state of limbo of not knowing when they might have to move because they don't know when the promotion might be confirmed in the senate. >> pentagon deputy press secretary, sabrina sing, thank you so much for coming on the program. one more court case on a collision course with the 2024 election. this one involving hunter biden. what a looming indictment could mean for president biden's campaign. campaign

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪

[sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv (♪♪)

rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning! and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new. it's amazing! wow, it makes it look like... i don't have kids at all. it's so good, it makes it look like i have magical powers! with 80% less scrubbing, mr. clean magic eraser makes cleaning easy. also available in sheets! let innovation refunds help with your erc tax refund

so you can improve your business however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network.

the investigation into president biden's son is making a dramatic turn with an indictment apparently imminent, special counsel david weiss says he intends to seek grand jury indictments against hunter biden before the end of the month on a felony gun charge along with separate misdemeanor tax charges

and only six weeks after the contentious collapse of a plea deal that could have resolved both cases. the prosecution expected to only fuel the fire of house republicans who have already been threatening an impeachment inquiry into the international business dealings of joe biden and his son. timed for maximum messaging for 2024 but without any proof. let's bring in nbc news white house correspondent allie raffa and tim miller, former communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign and an msnbc political analyst. so ali, what more did we learn from the special counsel, and could additional charges be possible? >> reporter: yeah, chris, well, prosecutors working under special counsel david weiss don't say in this new filing whether additional charges could be at play here, but remember what you said in that intro there, this is coming a couple of weeks after that plea deal that hunter biden and his lawyers had made with prosecutors that would have allowed him to avoid jail time. it's coming after that unravelled after the judge in that case questioned the terms and the limits of that plea

deal, and because it collapsed, it's possible prosecutors could add more serious charges with more serious offenses to this expected indictment, especially after we've seen over the summer some irs whistle-blowers and fbi officials testify before congress that they believe hunter biden may have committed felony tax evasion. but hunter biden's lawyers for their part are saying that prosecutors cannot do this because of a deal that they made with prosecutors related to that gun charge, essentially an immunity clause that protects hunter biden from any potential charges in other cases, and they're saying because hunter biden has held up his end of the bargain related to that gun charge that prosecutors shouldn't be able to do this. but prosecutors for their part are saying anything is really only table at this point. it's just unclear given the time line here with the statute of limitations how they're going to be able to include any potential additional charges stemming from, remember, that nearly

five-year long probe. >> thank you for that. so tim, we've often discussed the potential political impact of donald trump's many legal cases. do you see any peril in this for joe biden in just the continuing conversations republicans want to have about hunter biden? >> yeah, chris, two thoughts on this. i think there's always some potential peril when, you know, there's investigations into things like this. there's smoke. there's bad press. going back to the hillary clinton email story, right? it was republican investigations into benghazi, actually, that unearthed the server that she had some of her emails on when she was at the state department, you know, which then created investigations, right? so sometimes investigations can begin, investigations can beget more bad news. that's always a risk for politicians. i think it's a risk the biden white house is definitely aware of. i will say this, though. republicans main charge against the biden administration is that

they've been improper somehow in using the doj to target political enemies, and i think that it's kind of vindicating, frankly, for all of us, you know, who have been saying that this is false, that the justice system has been working as it should with regard to donald trump and his allies and it's proof that right now prosecutors of the biden administration are doing their best to try to hold hunter biden accountable for any alleged crimes that he may have committed. so you know, in some ways, i do think that takes the air a little bit out of what has been the most potent republican charge against the biden administration. >> there are, in fact, democrats who think it's the opposite, that it actually helps joe biden. it will actually benefit more from an impeachment inquiry than republicans will. democratic senator john fetterman had a warning for his republican colleagues. here it is. >> go ahead and do it, i dare you, you know? if you can find -- if you can find the votes, you know, fwd

because, you know, you're going to lose. your man has, what, three or four indictments now, and you're going to -- so like i said, you know, sometimes you just got to call their bull [ bleep ]. >> and even a member of the house judiciary committee thinks his colleagues may be overstepping. let me play that. >> i don't see any reason to start an impeachment inquiry at this point in time when all the power, all the resources that we can muster are now being used to investigate whether joe biden received money from hunter biden or hunter biden's activities or whether he in some way knew about hunter biden's activities. i don't think there's a need to have an impeachment inquiry when we have three committees that are doing great work developing the kind of evidence that would lead to an impeachment inquiry. >> is there any risk in

overplaying their hand on the republican side or is the worst-case scenario they don't get anything much out of it except to fire up their own base? >> no, i think there's a worse case scenario than that. i do think the republicans in some ways are playing into the democrats' hands by handing them these talking points about just how extreme republicans are, right? generally speaking when you're running against an incumbent president, you want to run against that president's record, right? so for every moment that these house republicans are spending on ridiculous mockable investigations and not talking about inflation or other issues that voters might care about, that's a wasted opportunity. so i do think that there is a big risk on the republican side to continue to cement their brand as crazy and extreme, but i also don't think it's without risk for the biden administration. we don't know what we don't know. >> tim miller, always good to see you, my friend, thank you. an historic impeachment

trial dividing republicans deep in the heart of texas, the stunning testimony against attorney general ken paxton, and it came from his own deputy first assistant. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. u're watg reports" only on msnbc e is just, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv oh stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! [sniffs] what is — wow! baby: daddy. sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! pano ai chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. [ tense music ] one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic.

just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? and for fast topical pain relief, try alevex. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the subway series menu. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today. want luxury hair repair that doesn't cost $50?

pantene's pro-vitamin formula repairs hair. as well as the leading luxury bonding treatment. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. ♪ zyrtec! ♪ works hard at hour one and twice as hard when you take it again the next day. so betty can be the... barcode beat conductor. let's be more than our allergies! and for fast, allergy relief with a powerful decongestant, try zyrtec-d. trelegy for copd. ♪birds flyin' high, you know how i feel.♪ ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing] ...copd sitting down. ♪it's a new dawn,...♪ ♪...it's a new day,♪ it's time to make a stand. ♪and i'm feelin' good.♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd... ...medicine has the power to treat copd... ...in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler,... ...trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups.

trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler... ...for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating,... ...vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy... ...and save at trelegy.com. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv

a federal judge has now ordered texas governor greg abbott to remove that floating buoy barrier in the rio grande that's being used to block

migrants from illegally crossing the border. the judge has given the state until next friday to move the 1,000 foot string of bright orange buoys separated with serrated saw blades to the u.s. bank of the river saying they block navigation on the river and are a threat to human life. texas is appealing the judge's ruling pledging they'll take the fight all the way to the supreme court. and today incendiary new testimony in the impeachment trial of texas attorney general ken paxton and it's coing from a former texas deputy first assistant a.g. he's been talking about the lengths paxton went to to help one of his donors and allies nate paul. nbc's jane timm is in austin, texas, following all of this for us. what's the latest from the trial today, jane? >> reporter: chris, this is day three of hearing sometimes emotional testimony about his former staff about the attorney general's action, the growing concern and eventual alarm these

staffers felt based on the attorney general's actions. ryan bangert testified about being urged to reverse an opinion that the office of the attorney general had taken by an anxious and increasingly anxious attorney general ken paxton. he went on to talk about a lunch that he felt he had no choice to attend despite the fact that he felt it was ill proper and had lunch with nate paul, this donor who's accused of giving bribes to the attorney general. let's take a listen to what ryan bangert said about his own decision to eventually report his boss to the fbi. >> i went to the fbi because i believed based on my experience over the previous nine months that the attorney general had abandoned his obligation to work on behalf of the interests of the people of texas to serve the interests of one person, nate paul. >> reporter: he went on to talk about how the month after reporting his boss to the fbi,

how the new incoming staff was, quote, belligerent to the people who have made this good faith report as they called it and went on to talk about his decision to eventually resign. he said it was heartbreaking. he had moved his family to austin because he believed in the work ken paxton was doing. >> thank you for that. mike pence on the attack against former president trump with maybe his sharpest criticism yet. his new comments from the campaign trail. and the pennsylvania manhunt for a convicted killer intensifying as officials release wild video of his extraordinary escape from prison. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. is jansig reports" only on msnbc right now get a free footlong at subway. like the subway series menu. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. for freeee. that's what i'm talking about. order in the subway app today.

[sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq.

check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least 1 heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time.

the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. salonpas, makers of powerful pain relief patches for 89 years... believes in continuous improvement... like rounded corners that resist peeling, with an array of active ingredients... and sizes to relieve your pain. salonpas. it's good medicine.

hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. aso we have a lot of questions relieabout medicare plans. we've got a lot of answers! how can i help? well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits? i sure like the sound of that! then how does a zero dollar monthly plan premium sound? ooooooooh! if you're new to medicare, call 1-888-65-aetna. we'll walk you through all your coverage and benefit options to help find the right plan for you. (vo) you were diagnosed with thyroid eye disease a long time ago. and year after year, you weathered the storm and just lived with the damage that was left behind. but even after all this time your thyroid eye disease could still change.

restoration is still possible. learn how you could give your eyes a fresh start at tedhelp.com. we have breaking news surrounding the election interference charges against donald trump. the former president notifying fulton county's court he may seek to have the case removed to federal court. let me bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. i was going to say, you had to read through all this, but it's basically four lines long. what actually does this mean? >> so this is not a notice of removal. donald trump is letting judge scot mcafee in fulton county superior court know that he may at a later point in time file a notice of removal to federal court. the reason he's doing this now is because as judge mcafee noted

the other day in his hearing, if cases get removed to federal court, then the whole question of how to schedule these other 17 defendants for trial is moot or presents additional legal complexity for him. he mentioned the other day, let's say mark meadows loses on his removal motion in federal court, but the 11th circuit then reverses that. what happens if i've already tried? all of you here in my court and at a later point in time a federal appeals court finds that the case should have been tried in federal court. trump is basically saying to the judge this this state, here's one more factor for you to consider, among the other people who have already moved to remove, i might add my name to that pile. >> if that is the decision that donald trump makes, would he even file this in state court? >> no, he would not. he would file a notice -- so the first step would be to file a notice of removal in federal

district court. that's the northern district of georgia. and according to statute, that notice of removal has to state his grounds for removal too. so you and i are looking at this notice. it's a paragraph long, it doesn't really say anything. if he seeks to remove his case to federal court, he's going to have to provide some doing so wh includes that he was acting as a federal officer at the time, and that he has a colorable federal defense to being prosecuted by the fulton county district attorney. mark meadows in his motion says his federal defense is essentially that he's immune from prosecution by the state because as the white house cief of staff, he was acting under federal law, and no state prosecutor can touch him. >> let me go back to square one, okay. >> yes. >> what would be the advantage for any of these folks, any of the 17 whose trial dates have not been set of moving from

georgia beyond what a lot of folks have suggested, which is they don't want this to be televised? >> there are two other possible advantages, one is that the jury pool changes. if you are tried in fulton county superior court, the jury is drawn from fulton county and fulton county alone. that's a county that voted over 70% for joe biden in the last presidential race. if you are tried in federal court in atlanta on the other hand, that jury pool is drawn from, i believe, somewhere between 8 to 10 different counties in the surrounding area. the thought is that the jury pool gets progressively more diverse, more conservative, more favorable to people like mark meadows and donald trump. the other advantage is that federal courts have more experience with federal law. if you're a person who's going to say the federal constitution makes me immune from prosecution, you might find a more receptive audience among a federal judge than you might among someone like scott mcafee, who's a state court judge and a former district attorney.

>> one more consideration for judge mcafee as he has to make those decisions. >> he has already indicated he's not likely to try 17 other defendants on an expedited time frame. this makes it increasingly unlikely he'll do so. >> much appreciated. former vice president mike pence, giving some of his sharpest criticism on donald trump, coming down on the other side of his former boss in the divisive intraparty battle over what being a republican is and what it will be in the future. the truth is the republican party did not begin on a golden escalator in 2015. long before that day, it was forged and defended and defined. as the conservative party in america. and so it should ever be. >> back with us is tim miller. so the former vice president

calls trump's populism a road to ruin for the republican party but frankly he's been warning about this for the last year. his polling is still in the single digits. was this ever a messaging problem for him, and would it be hyperbolic to say this is, win or lose, a fight for the soul of the party wherever you come down on this? >> i come down on the fact that the fight for the soul of the party happened already in 2016, and the side that mike pence is trying to get on to now lost, and he got on board with the vice president, the winning side, the populist, nationalist, conspiratorial donald trump side, and it's hard for people, after a party has gone one direction for seven years, and all of the leading members of the party have cheer leaded that direction, the trumpian direction, and come out of a speech in new hampshire saying i think the party should go back to what it was in 2015, and

fight for the soul of the party. you missed the fight. the fight happened, and you were on the field. >> and then you have former new jersey governor chris christie calling out governor ron desantis for failing to meet with president biden while he was touring hurricane idalia damage in florida. let me play that for you. >> your job as governor is to be the tour guide for the president, is to make sure the president sees your people, sees the damage, sees the suffering that's going on, and what's going to need to be done to rebuild it. you're doing your job, and unfortunately he put politics ahead of his job. that was his choice. >> as you know, christie has taken a lot of flak for working with president obama during superstorm sandy which morphed into criticism for a hug that never actually happened. was desantis too nervous that it was going to become a campaign ad if he was seen with joe biden, ultimately from a

political perspective, did he make the right move? >> yeah, i don't know, rick scott was there, right, and i think desantis did the right thing when he showed up in jacksonville and got booed after that heinous racist shooting. you can tell this is a politician that is calculating, you know, how far he can go and needing to govern florida, but he can't go too far to be seen, you know, cozying up to joe biden. that could have a backlash. and frankly, i don't know, i side with chris christie on this one. he was in an emergency situation, you do the job as governor and let the chips fall. i don't know that it helps him to be seen as a politician doing this two-step, you know, trying to figure out how far to separate himself from joe biden. >> tim miller, thanks for coming back. appreciate it. and in our next hour, we're going to have more on the breaking news out of fulton county where donald trump now says he may seek to move his case to federal court. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. watching reports" only on msnbc ♪i've got home internet from t-mobile.♪

♪it only costs $50 bucks at t-mobile.♪ ♪just one cord to set up.♪ ♪say goodbye to that truck.♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful mornin'...♪ ♪oh, what a beautiful day...♪ ♪they won't raise your rates at t-mobile...♪ ♪you'll get a great deal every day!♪ home internet from t-mobile... just $50 bucks a month. my name is tonya, i am 42. as mother of nine kids, i think i waited this long to get botox® cosmetic because i take like no time for myself. my kids are sports kids. we're always running from one activity to another. i'm still tonya and i got botox® cosmetic... and this is like the first thing i've done for me in a really, really long time. my life is still crazy, it's just as full as it was before... just with less lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours

to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. want a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop.

an all-in-one cleaning tool with a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. delicious too. just ask my old friend, kevin. nothing like enjoying a cold one while watching the game. who's winning? no idea. real milk. real delicious. and don't forget to try some delicious, creamy lactaid ice cream. what's that mabel? (mooo) wow, smart cow! there's a story in every piece of land. written by those who work it. like the upshaws. the nelsons. and the caggianos. run with us and start telling your story.

(aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. in one year, i've lost five sizes, and i'm on my way to lose another three. with golo, i can do it. (announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com.

a lot more to cover on this second hour of "chris jansing reports" including the astonishing video of a convicted killer escaping from a pennsylvania prison by crab walking up the walls and the serious questions it raises, where were the guards, and what's next for the man hunt that has paralyzed a community. also ahead, the plea deal controversy, president biden rejecting demands from the accuse the 9/11 master mind and four other detainees, what they wanted and the one offer that could spare their lives. the major development in the hunter biden saga and what it would mean for the president, joe biden's son, no facing an indictment before the month is over. what we're hearing from the special counsel. and what's next after mitch mcconnell rebuffed any thoughts of retirement?