that have a big presence in china that are american companies, but perhaps none more than apple in terms of both the supply chain and also what that consumer market means. so any kind of tension there i think is going to hit the stock particularly hard which is what you saw this week. >> morgan brennan. thank you so much. appreciate it. that does it for us, everybody. coverage continues right now with my friend, "katy tur reports." good to be with you. i'm katy tur. they dodged indictment. senator lindsey graham, former senators kelly loeffler and david perdue along with 18 others have been taking a breath today as news that the first grand jury in the georgia election interference case recommended charging them. so why did d.a. fani willis decline to indictment them? what made trump loyalists like michael flynn and boris epstein

less prosecutable than mark meadows and rudy giuliani? we're going to get into the potential problems d.a. willis might have identified and what these almost co-defendants are saying for themselves. senator graham just spoke with reporters. there's also news about another lawsuit, this one trying to keep donald trump off the ballot in colorado. we're going to have more on that in a moment. let us start once again with georgia. joining us is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who's in rapid city, south dakota, where donald trump is holding a rally tonight. and "atlanta journal constitution" reporter greg blue stein along with legal analyst lisa rubin. let us starts with the would-bes here. senator lindsey graham is clearly the headline, ken dilanian, that he was somebody they considered potentially bringing charges against. remind us what lindsey graham had to do with the state of georgia. >> well, lindsey graham, even

though he's a senator from south carolina, was involved in making calls presumably on donald trump's behalf and pressuring state officials and emailing and being involved in discussions as part of this general effort to investigate what we now know are bogus allegations of fraud in an effort to overturn the election. he claimed that he was acting as a u.s. senator concerned about irregularities. and one thing we noticed for that report is that there were more no votes against indicting lindsey graham than probably almost anybody else. so that's interesting. yeah, this is a rare peek behind the curtain, katy. it's not often that you see the names of people who are implicated in criminal investigations but not charged. of course in addition to graham you had the two former georgia jierts, kelly loeffler and david perdue, and names like mike flynn, former national security adviser, and boris epstein, one

of donald trump's top lawyers. probably a lot of reasons why willis decided ton charge those people. unfortunately we're not going to learn the answers because it's a secret process. but it's fascinating and a good day for transparency to see these names out there. >> greg, what about the former two senators from georgia being on this list? >> yeah, i think that was one of the most shocking developments here in georgia because we knew a range of the officials on that list were being probed by the special grand jury. prosecutors kept it a closely guarded secret they were investigating the two former senators who at the time were in the middle of a really pitched runoff battle, they decided to control the u.s. senate. we don't know exactly why they were implicated, but the broad charges, david perdue, they were -- grand jurors were considering whether david perdue violated the law by persistently urging officials to subvert the will of georgia voters. and both perdue and kelly loeffler were being investigated

on potential charges, i guess the way to put it, of being parts of a broader effort to overturn the georgia election. we know that both of them backed trump's claims of a rigged election. those lies about a rigged election. they both endorsed the effort to block his -- joe biden's electoral college certification in congress. although both never voted on that in the end. >> how is this playing in georgia? i mean, i haven't been down there during this. i have no idea. is this -- do you feel like this is playing one way in one county and another way in other counties? or is there a broad sense in that state that -- you tell me, what is the broad sense? is there a broad sense of anything? >> that's a good question. i think it's playing differently to different voters. republicans continue -- many republicans continue to -- this as a politicized prosecution, "the atlanta journal constitution" poll showed a significant majority of georgians see this as politicized. at the same time a significant number of republicans see this as a vulnerability to donald trump should he win the

nomination and attempt to come back if he's on the ballot against joe biden in november of next year. democrats and moderates see this as another effort, another indication that the former president tried to overturn and subvert the will of georgia voters. >> can you say that anybody in georgia who did not vote for donald trump in 2020 are thinking, listen, maybe i want to vote for him again after all this? >> that's the key question. that significant block of middle of the road voters who used to votes republican in georgia and switched sides and voted for democrats, or split their ticket and voted for governor kemp, a republican, but voted for senator warnock, a democrat. what reason do they have to vote for donald trump against next year especially given the indictments and the trouble he's been in the last years. >> i know we focus on donald trump, but again, there are two democratic senators in georgia now, too. what does it mean for the future of state politics? federal level state politics in

georgia? vaughn, tell me about what senator lindsey graham has said in response. we've gotten a host of responses from the people listed on this indictment. what did lindsey graham say? >> right. suggesting that this was a potential effort to undermine what was purely political work. i actually want to let you hear, our team caught up with senator lindsey graham on capitol hill here just this afternoon. take a listen. >> end of the day, nothing happened. what i did was consistent with my job as being united states senator, chairman of the judiciary committee. but it was just not me. three united states senators were opening up pandora's box, i think the system in this country is getting off the rails. and we have to be careful not to use the legal system as a political tool. >> reporter: you heard there lindsey graham in south carolina suggesting that not only as chair of the judiciary committee in the senate, he was -- it was within his tries to make such

calls to brad raffensperger and other elections officials, but also suggesting that it was -- in a political capacity here. the footnote as it pertained to the vote on david perdue and kelly loeffler from one of the jurors suggested that one of the jurors, the special grand jury, had declined to suggest that they be prosecuted because of what amounted to political pandering should not amount to criminal charges. and you know, david perdue and kelly loeffler both issued a statement at the time calling for brad raffensperger to resign as secretary of state because they said that he had failed to hold onest and trans-- honest and transparent elections. i think this is where when you're talking about charges here, clearly there's a determination made by the district attorney that the extent to which allies, political allies of donald trump and why it amounted to criminal liability versus in the case of david perdue, lindsey graham,

and kelly loeffler, speaking out as republican allies of donald trump. >> i said indictment a moment ago, i meant grand jury report. just to be clear. this is not an indictment. just on the note of what they did or did not do and whether you call it political pandering -- there's an argument obviously for some of them. but i think we should just go back and remind ourselves more of what lindsey graham was accused of doing. here's garrett haake asking graham about this back in 2020, asking him about the call that he made to brad raffensperger. >> did you or did you not ask him to throw out votes? >> no. that's ridiculous. i talked to him about how you verify signatures. i thought it was a nice conversations. >> reporter: why is a senator from south carolina calling the secretary of state in georgia anyway? >> because the future of the country hangs in the balance. >> reporter: does it, though? >> yeah, it really does. >> i love that from garrett, does it, though? does it really hang in the balance? that seemed to be the argument that the future was all about finding out in this election was fraudulent, but there was never

any evidence presented period that the election in georgia or anything else was fraudulent in a way that would change the results of any of the elections in 2020. >> that's right. i wonder if this case and the one being brought by jack smith in washington has sent kind of a bracing message that there is -- there is a line between politics and crime. you know, politicians lie all the time. we all know that, right? they spin, they shade the truth. but in this case, what these prosecutors are alleging that's having serious consequences in people's lives is that these political lies crossed the line into criminal conspiracies that tried to subvert our democracy. lindsey graham narrowly dodged being accused, it looks like, of those crimes. but nonetheless, he appears in this document having been recommended to be charged by a grand jury of good citizens in georgia who spent two years, by the way, reviewing this evidence. katy? >> so we've all given our

reporters a read of this document. let's go to lisa rubin. you had a legal read of it. what stood out? >> i think one of the things that stood out is obviously there are 21 people against whom the special purpose grand jury recommended charges who were not ultimately included in it. the question is why, and i think there are a number of different explanations depending on who we're talking about. the thing that stood out to me was ten of those people are among what we call the fake electors, people who gather together, put together paperwork for trump. of those ten fake electors, one, burt jones, is a person that fani willis has disqualified from prosecuting, why? because she attended a fundraiser for his political opponent as he was running for lieutenant governor. it is up to a council to determine whether a special counsel should be appointed. the remaining nine, there are indications that each of those remaining nine fake electors ultimately cooperated with fani willis. eight of them were represented by the same lawyer, kimberly dubrow who said in a may, 2023,

filing that all eight of her clients were offered immunity and accepted them. "the new york times" reported on that same day, i don't believe nbc news has matched that a ninth fake elector also cooperated. when we're talking about these -- >> that's why they wouldn't be indicted. >> that's why they wouldn't be indicted. at the same time, we have reasonable questions and questions as ken alewded to might not be -- alluded to might not be applicable to some of the others. some of the people piquing my curiosity now are not only mike flynn and lindsey graham but cleta mitchell and lin wood. two attorneys who like sidney powell and like rudy giuliani are publicly affiliated with the efforts to overturn the results of the election. >> i guess when you're looking at this and looking at the fact that she is 30 and indicted co-conspirators in her indictment, can we say any of these people might be among that list? >> we definitely can. i would say if you look at the fulton county indictment closely, it talks -- 13 of those unindicted co-conspirators are

the fake electors. there were 16 fake electors in georgia, only three of them, david schaefer, sean still, and kathy latham, are among those indicted. there are 13 others referred to as unindicted co-conspirators. the question is who are the 17 others, and are they people on this page? there are indications so far that some of them might be the people on this page. i don't want to misattribute to anyone cooperation or identification as an unindicted co-conspirator, but we're starting put the puzzle pieces together. it's fair to say some of the others are there, as well. >> i want to save something for our next blocks. we have another legal mind joining us, as well, to go through this. i have the news that i mentioned out of colorado. this lawsuit to keep donald trump off the ballot. we are going to get to that in just a moment. do not go anywhere. we will be back in 60 seconds. can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card,

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general for national security, mary mccord, and back with us, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, also nbc news correspondents vaughn hillyard. so i want to get your sense of this, mary, since you're just joining the conversation. when you're looking at this list of people, do you see -- are there apparent flaws in potentially pursuing a prosecution against any of them? why you might not see mike flynn in an indictment, why you wouldn't see boris epstein in an indictment, why you didn't see senator lindsey graham in an indictment? what limited -- what did fani willis consider as limiting factors for her ability to go after these people? >> i think there are a number of things, and i think we also need to study this a lot longer and compare it to the overt acts in the indictment to really get a clear picture. but i think some of the issues are with respect to people like mike flynn, for example, if you look at the grand jury's -- the special grand jury's report, they have that under the category of the national

conspiracy to undermine the will of the people nationally, and it could have been that as fani willis sort of honed in on the charges that she wanted to seek from the regular grand jury that she thought i'm going to focus on the people who were most involved with the efforts in georgia. the rest of it is context, it's a good story. but to the extent that some people were primarily involved in the national effort and not the georgia-specific effort, maybe i'll leave those for another day or maybe for the federal government to investigate or something like that. >> what about -- senator graham and the former two senators of georgia? >> that's what i'm coming -- that's coming, too. >> sorry, i couldn't wait. >> i think with respect to the three senators, she could have been looking at a couple of things. one, she's definitely going to be looking at these votes because it only takes one juror to hang a jury in a criminal trial. and a hung jury even though that is not an acquittal, that means

that the person can be retried, we know how that would play politically. and so in some of the instance, particularly involving lindsey graham, i think there were as many as seven special grand jurors who did not recommend charges against senator graham. she may have thought that's not a risk she wants to take. there are also additional immunity issues that would be raised by each of the three senators, featured debate immunity. grant it some aspects were litigated when senator graham sought to refuse to testify arguing speech or debate, and that was denied. but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't potentially have some defenses and we'd be seeing this removal, again, the way we're seeing with respect to mark meadows and some of the other defendants in the case that fani willis did bring, we'd have a lot of legal issues that she might want to justice slim down this case and -- just slim down this case and not have legal issues arise. for some of the other people, i

don't have a good explanation. cleta mitchell was up to her eyeballs, very involved in georgia. i don't think she's a good candidate for cooperation. another boblt for some people is -- possibility for some people is maybe they cooperated. i find that hard to believe with cleta manipulatele. that remains a mystery -- mitchell. that remains a mystery to me. >> you were mentioning during the break, lisa, that you think there are candidates here for cooperation. who might they be if they're not cleta mitchel? >> kurt hilbert and alex kaufman. two lawyers involved with the georgia election litigation on behalf of former president trump. the reason i think that they're potential cooperators here is they were also witnesses for the fulton county d.a. at mark meadows' removal hearing. they ultimately called only hilbert, not kaufman. a good prosecutor never calls somebody even with a subpoena to appear at a hearing without knowing what they're going to say on the stand. and if either kurt hilbert or alex kaufman had remaining criminal exposure, at least in fulton county, georgia, that --

>> you're saying the d.a. probably knew what they were going to say, they knew because -- >> they knew they weren't going to take the fifth because they likely have a cooperation agreement with one or both of them already. >> that is a really interesting point. what do you think of that, mary? >> i think it -- it's a great point. there may be others, but those are some sort of clear indications, and i think mr. hilbert actually already testified at the removal hearing for mark meadows, if i'm not mistaken. so i think, you know, that's a good hypothesis, working hypothesis. there's some being this report that i feel like i have to mention. you know, i heard ken say, and i respect this from a reporter's perspective that this is good for transparency, but as a former prosecutor, it really is shocking to me to see the names and the vote counts with respect to people that the ultimate grand jury responsible for returning the criminal indictment, people they did not indict, because you know, there's a reason that federal

prosecutors do not name people who are unindicted and instead call them unindicted co-conspirators. it's because there's an argument that, you know, their due process rights can be infringed when they are named but not indicted. i guess this is a function of georgia law, and i am not by any stretch an expert on georgia law. but i was surprised to see these names included in this report. >> again, it's an unusual thing to behold with your own eyes. we don't get to see this material normally. we don't have this sort of access. leaving aside whether or not it's a good idea, mary, was there anything else that surprised you? anything in the way the jury deliberated that could give indications to how a jury might ultimately deliberate when fani willis tries her case? >> i guess a couple of things. it's still not entirely clear to me how extensive the role of fani willis and her team, the district attorney's team was in this entire investigation. the grand jury actually says, the special grand jury says in

their reports, and i'm looking over to read it, that pursuant to georgia law the team of eight assistant district attorneys provided sort of a set of potentially applicable criminal statutes. they go on to say any recommendation set out herein is solely the conclusion of the grand jury based on testimony presented, facts received, and their own deliberations. it's not clear to me to fani willis or any of her team actually asked the special grand jury to vote on particular people and particular crimes. they heard evidence over a long period of time, and it appears from what they reported that they in many ways made their own decisions about who to recommend and for what charges. now in addition to a number of the people not being criminally indicted, a number of the charges they recommended even from people who were later indicted were not included charges. so fani willis made her own decisions about what charges to seek indictment on, not just what people to seek indictment on. so it's not clear to me whether

there were closing arguments by the district attorney in front of the special grand jury, whether there were particular recommendations of the district attorney, or whether it was left up solely to the grand jurors. the reason i mention that, because the one -- the people we know didn't have a chance to argue were defense attorneys, who were any of these people. the grand jury potentially heard sort of a one-sided presentation, but i'm not even entirely certain about that. it's unclear to me how much of the role -- how significant the role of the d.a.'s office was. but they certainly didn't hear any defenses. so fani willis has to consider that when she's thinking about which individuals and which charges to seek criminal indictments for. >> mary makes such good points. i see you scribbling and circling pages from this document, items from this document. what are you looking at? >> i'm looking at places where there were no no votes. there are particularly in the section that pertains to the rico charges, with respect to each and every individual against whom this special grand jury recommended rico charges,

there is at least one no vote. one of the things that i find really striking is where you see no no votes at all. for example, in the section, section four on page four, for anybody following along at home, with respect to the harassment -- >> i know my mom now, i know my mom has it out. >> hi, katy's mom. with respect to the harassment of ruby freeman, the special grand jury recommended a number of charges, and in at least one of those charges, it's the criminal solicitation charge, there were no no votes with respect to recommending an indictment of kanye west's former publicist, harrison floyd, with black voters for trump, and steven lee, he is the pastor from illinois who basically brought in kutti and floyd to talk to ruby freeman because as a white pastor he didn't think he was going to get through to her. all three people had a unanimous special grand jury votes behind their recommended indictment. that's meaningful to me. >> that is interesting. mary, i want to get to colorado and vaughn who's been patiently

waiting for us. i want to ask, you mention mark meadows and the removal case. the federal judge has not decided. do you have insight on what could be taking so long? >> so, you know, we know he is at least examining closely this question of if there is any overt act, even just one for which mark meadows may have a federal defense, may have been something that he did within the scope of his official duties. does that mean that -- that, you know, he has to remove the case even if there's just one act? so he may still be considering that because those briefs were just filed last week. it's an issue that there's no clear answer in law on because it hasn't happened before. i think there are remedies for that such as fani willis could say we will strike that overt act. we won't rely on it, we won't ask the jury to base their decision about a rico conspiracy to that overt act as they've argued forcefully in a very, very i think well-briefed pleading filed last week. this is about mark moesd

entering the con -- meadows entering the conspiracy, not his guilt or innocence isn't based on whether he did or didn't commit overt acts, and they didn't need to allege any. i think the judge is thinking about that. the judge may be waiting potentially until he has the hearings with respect to jeffrey clark and the three fraudulent electors next week. may be thinking he wants to resolve these at one time. and mr. trump has given notice that he may move to remove. a strange notice like you don't have to do that, you don't have to say i might make a decision to do this. but i think he was trying to signal to the court hang on, you know, before you make any decisions, i might be coming and seeking removal, too. he has an incentive to wait until the last day just for delay, delay, delay. >> all right. we will watch that. vaughn, thank you so much for waiting patiently. tell us what happens -- what's happening in colorado with this lawsuit? >> reporter: right. just so everybody knows, i am in south dakota now, but over in

colorado is the legal, this is the political, donald trump will be here tonight. in colorado, the development is that new attorneys for donald trump in colorado have filed a petition with the federal court, the u.s. district court in colorado, to move the case over the disqualification clause that was filed against the colorado secretary of state this week from the state court to be heard by the federal court. of course there's been a lot of talk here recently about the 14th amendment, section three, the disqualification clause which was ratified after the civil war to prevent anybody from serving a public office who had engaged in or provided aid and comfort to those who had engaged in insurrection or rebellion. there are a couple of voters in colorado this week who filed the lawsuit against the colorado secretary of state to force donald trump's name off of the ballot under the disqualification clause. now the petition here from the attorneys for donald trump would move this to the federal court

if approved, and would potentially speed this process along. i was talking to a secretary of state from the state just last week who told me it's -- if anybody wants to try to test this in the courts, somebody's got come swinging. these voters in colorado, they're the first to take that major swing. now this really -- there's not much precedent to this. last year a state court in new mexico did remove a january 6th defendant for his position as county commissioner in new mexico. but he had at that point already been found guilty of trespassing on january 6th on u.s. capitol grounds. in arizona, a state court last year did not remove, it rejected a lawsuit to remove two members of congress, andy biggs and paul gosar, because of their involvement in january 6th. and so this is -- this is untested, unprecedented, and ultimately this will come down to potentially a federal judge now in colorado on whether donald trump's name should be removed from the ballot in colorado and potentially in other states under the

disqualification clause of the 14th amendment. >> thank you very much. mary, lisa, we appreciate it. still ahead, what the senate is getting ready to do that it has not done in years. first up, the escaped murderer, the one that escaped from that pennsylvania prison, is still on the run. what police just did to the search area. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein.

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the hunt for convicted killer danella cavalcante -- danelo cavalcante has stretched into a ninth day in the heat and humidity. a new search perimeter has shifted west. joining us from chester county, correspondent marisa parra. so they've expanded the search area, and they've moved it west. we know what's leading them to do that? >> reporter: hey, katy, we know that there have been about eight

sightings, at least that authorities have told us about when it comes to cavalcante here. what they're doing is focusing their search on this area called longwood gardens, botanical guarantees, heavily wooded, thick and difficult to search through and for. that is something that we understand to our knowledge this is the latest information coming from police. but there, of course, could be so many things that they're seeing, they're hearing, that we don't know about. all i can tell you about as of now because the last press conference we had was hours ago from pennsylvania state police, that was around 11:30 this morning. what we have seen, we're right in the longwood gardens area. you can't see it, but over my shoulder in this direction we saw two helicopters that were focused on one area behind me. one of them was hovering in that same spot for about 30 minutes. and we have seen, frankly, we now have four helicopters searching that same area. we've seen helicopters dip right above the tree line. we can't get close enough to

hear anything, but we did see several trooper cars passing down this way, speeding down with their sirens on. obviously the rumor mill is rife here. there's a lot of people talking about this. that's all that i can report in terms of what i have seen with my own two eyes. just a lot of activity here. it sounds like that's been on and off in the area. in terms of other updates, we did just get confirmed from chester county that the prison guard who is -- who was on duty has been fired. an 18-year veteran with the county. of course you may remember that video that came out that caught so many eyes of cavalcante essentially crab walking up a wall before he made his escape. it's now been nine days of him being on the run, katy. and this is certainly not proving easy for people to search. you can see and you maybe can hear the helicopter circling above. so they're searching not just by the ground but also by the air, as well. >> marissa parra, thank you so much. coming up next, when an irs

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today on capitol hill, a new witness testified in the house

ways and means committee's hunter biden investigation. his name is doral walden, he was the irs special agent in charge of criminal investigations and the lead official in the original probe into whether hunter biden violated any income tax laws. house republicans hope he will confirm their theory that the biden administration influenced the decision not to charge the president's son when allegations of criminal activity first came to the irs' attention. joining us now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. so did he do just that? >> reporter: well, katy, the answer to that question is we just do not know. this was a closed door hearing, and in fact the rules of the ways and means in particular are very specific as to what can and cannot be released publicly from a private deposition. it has to go through a full vote of the committee. they haven't reached that stage yet where they're ready to release this information publicly. but we do know, and this was the second day of depositions of

officials from both the irs and the fbi who were privy to these conversations and these meetings that the two irs whistleblowers testified about where they said they were given the impression that the fbi and the irs were given hunter biden -- giving hunter biden special treatment. i spoke to the chairman jim jordan after the meeting, and he told me he was frustrated that the fbi agents they talked to yesterday was not being that forthcoming. so we don't exactly know exactly what they learned for this situation, but we do know that the special counsel involved in this case, david weiss, who is just the u.s. attorney at that point, has stated on the record in letters to these committees that he did not give hunter biden any special treatment, and that was also backed up by a letter from the attorney general himself. >> all right. we'll wait and see what else they have. ryan, thank you so much. there are three weeks left to avoid a government shutdown. with the house returning on monday, the senate has a little advice for the lower chamber --

do like we do. co-founderer john bresnahan. senator tester put it, basically said if you want to get the job done, here it is, the bev thing they could do is take all the work the senate does and just pass it because we do it, theys fact, we shouldn't be playing games like shutting down the government. that is bs, we'll put it nicely, bs. what's going on? >> yeah. tester is a colorful guy. he made a farm reference there. what's going on is the senate is going to start next week on -- congress has to pass 12 annual spending bills. the house and senate. they eventually to be signed into law by the president or some either individually or as a package or several packages. what's happening is the senate is going to start doing a series

of bills next week. they're going to start, it's going to take like two weeks. they're bipartisan. they have been agreed to unanimously by the senate appropriations committee. expect big bipartisan votes on the senate floor once they go through a bunch of amendments. now on the house side, we've got something completely different. we expect the house to start taking up the defense bill next week which is a mammoth bill, $886 billion. there's going to be a lot of amendments, but they're all republican amendments. they're going to try to jam this through on a straight party-line vote and see if they can face down the senate in negotiations. what you have is you have house republicans acting by themselves and then in the senate you have republicans and democrats together, and they're joining with the white house. so we really have everybody against house republicans at this point. >> it's been like that a few times in the past. house republicans have won a few times. they've been able to push things farther than they wanted to. maybe not as far as some in the house wanted to. but what's the likelihood of

these party-line votes getting traction in the senate? i mean, what's the likelihood of them coming to terms on this, or do you see a shutdown looming? are we going to see continuing resolution. three weeks is no time. >> no, they're not going to finish what they're supposed to finish by september 30th. it's not going to happen. we're going to have to get a continuing resolution which will keep federal agencies open beyond september 30th. that's when funding runs out. so we're going to have to get multiple continuing resolutions probably. you know, i think at this point we're very likely to see a shutdown. we may see more than one shutdown. you know, they could -- it could happen repeatedly. it's happened in the past. there's been more than one shutdown during a season. these guys are a far long way off. it's not just money is the issue here. we have a lot of culture war issues. the house republicans are pushing provisions on

transgenderism on, climate change on, diversity and inclusion. they're pushing, you know, they want to defund the justice department, they want to cut fbi funding. this is not going to go anywhere in the senate. they know that the -- >> what happens when mccarthy says we got to compromise? what happens when he says in order to get something done we've got to compromise, i cannot take the extreme positions that the very conservative members of the house want to take? does he remain speaker? >> that's a really good question. i had a top republican in the house yesterday talk to me, told me you may see some of the conservatives who don't like mccarthy, who opposed him all along and are not happy with him, you may see them try to force him out just to win the spending fight, not knowing that if they try to disrupt things by trying to force the speaker out, they may try to do that just to give themselves more leverage in the speaker fight. that's republicans on republicans. that's not even the democrats.

i mean, i think mccarthy, his whole thing is he's got through the debt limit fight early in the year, got through the speaker vote in january, he just keeps dancing, just keeps pushing everything off. sooner or later it's going to come to a head, and this is probably when it does. >> it reminds me of the -- what's the baseball saying -- we're taking it day by day, sports saying. taking it day by day is what kevin mccarthy seems to be doing. john, thank you very much. coming up next hour, house speaker emerita nancy pelosi joins nicolle wallace to discuss her announcement to run for re-election. she's going to try to do it again. coming up next, at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. and coming up next, the looming autoworkers strike with less than a week to reach a deal. where labor talks stand and what it could do for the economy if all of these workers, 140,000 of them, walk out. my name is caron and i'm from brooklyn. i work for the city of new york as a police administrator.

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scoff at. we are talking about a situation here where the three big automakers are negotiating at once with united auto workers. a real interesting situation, because it's a different playbook from the last round of negotiations in 2019 where unions had one company and used agreement with that company to copy and paste with the other two. not the case with the new uaw president, wants to take a hard-line stance asking for 46% wage bump over four to six years. because of inflation, a big bump. pay increases seen at the ceo level for these companies an interesting situation and only until thursday next week. >> and popular among union workers, supporting all the strikes this year, even about theers and writers points out what studio heads are making. so where do the automakers, the companies, stand on this deal? if they're not offering a 46% raise over four years, what are

they offering. >> they're not. numbers tell you how far apart. ford offered 9%. gm offer yesterday morning. 10%. stellantis offering 14.5%. getting closer to the middle of what the final number might be and autoworkers saying agree in principle workers should make more but not 46%, worth fine details. >> seven days? what's the deadline? >> less than seven days. thursday midnight into friday when the strike potentially begins. ike spoken we are workers at uaw told to prepare for a potential strike. practicing. >> heading into the fall. brian cheung, thank you jj. coming up, coco gauff makes

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folks, the u.s. open awesome this year especially for the home team. right now a 20-year-old american trenched in swagger and some sweat facing off against novak djokovic for the chance to be the first american man to win the u.s. open. the chance to win. a semitimes since andy roddick in 2003. unseated ben shelton defied expectations. can he do it again? if he does, there would be two americans in the final for the first time since 2002. coco gauff secured her spot. at 19, the youngest american to reach it's u.s. open final since serena williams in 1999 and done it with her own swagger dropping only three sets this entire tournament. joining us now from billie jean king national tennis center in

queens, nbc news correspondent rehema ellis. so jealous you are there, rehema! get me up to speed. what's going on? does blake -- i keep saying blake. does ben shelton has a chance. >> reporter: ben. of course he's got a chance. you get to be here with a champion it means you got to be a measure of a champion to do it. flew out 143 mile-per-hour serve but 100 point mile-an-hour snev his arsenal and needs every bit of it to beat number two if he's going to be number one in the tournament when it's all over. speaking of coco. she had a great match last night. her momentum great and a disruption in the stand. climate change disruption. three people, one man, glued his bare feet to the pavement, and they had to bring him out, took 29 minutes. that is something, time one of the opponents the players played

against. listen to what coco gauff had to say about it when it was all over. >> done in a peaceful way. so i can't get too mad at it. obviously i don't want it to happen when winning up 6-1-4-0. wanted to keep going. what they felt they needed to do to have their voices heard, can't be upset at it. >> reporter: what a great attitude. she won and needs to know if she can take the attitude and talent into winning the whole thing. katy? >> if ben shelton wins today, first time the two americans would be in the final since 2002. we've had a real drought in terms of men's singles for winners, andy roddick, last one, 2002. haven't had it since then. talk to u.s. tennis, this kid, ben and frances tiafoe, the future. >> reporter: they really are.

only 20 years old. coco gauff, 19 years old. last year ben was playing college tennis. now playing in the real big league. >> all right. we're going to watch, see how he does. right now down one set but maybe will come back. thank you very much. that does it for me today. "deadline: white house" with nancy pelosi starts right now. hi to everyone. happy friday. 4:00 in new york. three u.s. senators, former national security advisor, prominent trump attack dog, sitting in with a lieutenant governor and a partridge in a pear tree. the 1 people ended up indicted. finally, fani willis, sprawling racketeering case in overturning