playlist. isbell was also there. or at arimelber.com. our thanks to jason isbell. i'm wishing everyone a great weekend. "the reidout" starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> so at the end of the day, nothing happened. what i did was consistent with my job as being united states senator, chairman of the judiciary committee. we're opening up pandora's box. i think the system in this country getting off the rails. and we have to be careful not to use the legal system as a political tool. nothing to see here. we get our first look at the fulton county special grand jury report. they believe that far more than the 19 alleged coconspirators in the georgia election interference case should have been criminally charged, including senator lindsey graham. also tonight, it's called project 2025 and it's a

revealing and horrifying look at what the right has in store for america should donald trump somehow get his way back into the white house. good evening. i'm jason johnson in for joy reid, and we begin with breaking news. real breaking news, just about an hour ago, a federal judge denied mark meadows' bid to move his criminal charges in fulton county to federal court. ruling that his alleged involvement in efforts to pressure state leaders who overturned the 2020 election results was not a part of his official duties as a government official. it is a major setback for donald trump's former chief of staff who sought his request on the grounds he was a federal officer at the time of the actions that led to his indictment. also indicates trump himself will have a really hard time moving his case to federal court. something his lawyers told a judge this week he would still try to do. we'll have much more on this in a minute. also today, the door flew way open on the special grand jury's deliberations for this case.

and the much longer list of people that were recommended for charges released today was the full report that led to the criminal indictment of former president donald trump, mark meadows, and 17 others for trying to overturn his 2020 georgia election loss. it showed that grand jurors had recommended charges for 21 additional people. savage. on top of the 19 who were actually indicted. those 21 individuals were not ultimately charged. special grand juries in georgia cannot issue indictments and instead serve as an investigative tool. the findings for this particular case are the culmination of months of investigation including testimony from 75 witnesses. it's a lengthy list and it includes some big names such as sitting senator lindsey graham, a man who chaired the senate judiciary committee, as well as former u.s. senators kelly loeffler and david perdue of georgia who were sitting senators during the alleged crime. senator graham scoffed at the idea he should have been charged in the case, saying for the next

election, he would do the same thing. >> if it ever becomes impossible or politically dangerous or legally dangerous for united states senator to call up people to find out how the election was run, god help us all. the next election, if i have questions, i'll do the same thing. >> and hopefully next time he'll get indicted. flynn also responded releasing a statement that described the report as more corruption by politically motivated prosecutor, a baseless witch hunt that isn't based on the facts or the law or reality. we also learned that one of trump's georgia codefendants was not mentioned in the special grand jury report. that is mike roman, who allegedly helped to orchestrate the fake electors component of the alleged election conspiracy. joining me now, very excited, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, law professor at the university of alabama, and cohost of the sisters in law podcast, and charles coleman,

civil litigator, former brooklyn prosecutor, host of the charles coleman podcast and the best dressed lawyer i know today. greetings to both of you. joyce, i'm going to start with you. so i have been doing my homework. i have a big old document here. i have notes and everything else like that. it looks to me like this is a lot of pages to say mark meadows, you got to stay where you got to stay. what is some of the logic behind this? it's huge that they're not able to change the venue, bought what is the logic behind this judge saying you can't move to a federal prosecution? >> well, jason, it looks the same way to me that it looks to you. i'm reading the same big document as we talk tonight. and this is a great opinion by the judge in the sense that he tells you in the first paragraph of this, i think it's a 42-page document, how he's going to rule. and the ruling is that the case remains in state court, and here's the reason. mark meadows is a public

officer, that means he qualifies to ask for removal, but the judge evaluates the conduct that he is charged with. and concludes that it was not part of meadows' official duties. in other words, not a real shocker here, right? trying to help your boss steal an election is not part of the chief of staff's official duties in serving the presidency. sounds like the work of the campaign at best, a criminal conspiracy at worst. and the judge says it will stay with the courts in georgia for a decision. >> charles, so i'm reading through this. this is what fascinated me because the argument that trying to overturn an election is part of your job would sort of be like the manchurian candidate is on trial and says, hey, look, i was trying to overthrow the government for a foreign government, but i was technically president or candidate at the time. here the thing about that. why does this end up being significant for trump? trump might say, hey, i have a stronger argument because i was actually president. i was simply investigating what

i thought was fraud. why does this ruling about meadows probably make trump's chances even less likely? >> well, jason, what it does is it squarely puts the question of whether any of this can be characterized as under the official duties of your office to bed. we all knew as joyce alluded to that this was a long shot. mark meadows' attorneys knew this was a long shot. now that this ruling has come out, it leaves even less room for donald trump's attorneys to try to argue that somehow this was in the capacity of his responsibilities as executive of the united states of america. we all knew that not to be true, but the way in which this decision lays that out makes it super plain, super clear, and really closes the door. if anyone would have had that argument, and i'm not saying that he did because it's clear, i repeet, he did not. it would have been meadows and not trump. the fact that the judge made very quick work of that, as joyce pointed out, early in the decision makes it abundantly clear this argument is going nowhere fast, so donald trump

should not expect to make any traction with it at all. >> so i want to follow up on this because this is something i think a lot of people who aren't lawyered don't understand. if this had gone through, if mark meadows was tried federally instead of in fulton county, would that mean that the prosecutors were different? would it still be fani willis' people? explain what would have been different if the judge had ruled in another way? >> i'm so glad you asked that question because a lot of people are getting it wrong. it still would have been under georgia law, still would have been fulton county prosecuting the case. the biggest difference which mark meadows was more likely than not hoping for would be an expanded jury pool. in fulton county, you have a predominantly democratic jury pool, mainly black. you're not looking at a favorable outcome for mark meadows if you are his defense team, so what you want to do is remember, they need a unanimous conviction for this criminal

case. you're hoping by putting this in federal court, you're going to expand the jury pool, perhaps get someone larger or someone as part of the larger pool that's sympathetic to what it is you're trying to do, and potentially be a holdout and maybe you get a mistrial because you don't have much to go on in term of legal strategy. that was the biggest difference between moving this. there's some procedural things that are going to differ in federal court versus state court, but in terms of the substantive difference, that was the biggest difference that mark meadows was likely hoping to have happen for him by trying to move this case. but it wasn't going to work out from the beginning and now that we're here we all know that to be true. >> joyce, i want to turn a little bit to all of these additional names that we found out that, you know, apparently prosecutes were interested in. they ended up not getting indicted. how does that end up happening? how do you end up saying you're terrible enough that i want to put you on the list, but i don't want to indict you, but we're going to release the fact you're part of the investigation?

how does that happen and how can someone be someone the grand jury wanted to indict but didn't have time, space? explain that to us. >> this is such a great question, jason. it goes back to the conversation you and i had back when the georgia special investigative grand jury was doing its work. georgia has this unusual process. there's one grand jury that investigates. and it's very unlike the typical process where prosecutors like charles and myself might prepare an indictment, take it to a grand jury, and ask them to indict. and while that grand jury needs to only have probable cause to issue the indictment, charles and i know we have to try that case in a courtroom. we have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt. so we don't ask the grand jury to indict until we have that level of proof. this grand jury, the special investigative grand jury in georgia, served a very different function. they were only trying to decide whether there was reason to proceed, a much lower standard.

probably cause, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. they did have this much longer list of people who met that lower standard in their view, and of course, that became fani willis' task. and perhaps why there were months between receipt of this report and the final indictment so that they could determine who do we have sufficient evidence to get a conviction on when we go to trial. a much different task than the one that the special grand jury faced. >> charles, i want to just talk a little bit about the politics of this. you have two former and one sitting senator who they're basically saying, yeah, i think these people might have been a problem. i have long argued, long been concerned the conspiracy to overthrow the government, that january 6th might have been the violent act, but you had to have members, sitting members of the house and the senate helping to participate in the process. would the fact that these other senators were even being looked at, might that be something that

jack smith would take a look at, might it be something other prosecutors would pay attention to? because i think the fact that any of these people's names were mentioned in any kind of document talking about overthrowing the federal government, it's worthy of further investigation. >> well, jason, i do think it's more likely than not that jack smith and his office in reviewing the results from the january 6th commission as well as their own independent investigation have probably gone down that rabbit hole already and it's not to say that there may not be things coming. it's just to say with respect to this right now, i do believe that his office is obviously aware of it and has already likely looked into it. but there's another element to the politics i want to talk about quickly. that's fani willis, the fulton county d.a.'s office. you have to understand that for her to have this recommendation from the grand jury with respect to their investigative report as joyce already said, she knew that this was something that she would be held to a higher standard in terms of what her level of proof was.

so it wasn't just nonpartisan, it was apolitical for her to make that decision, and she's doing what a prosecutor is supposed to do. instead of basically saying, i want to go after everybody who is a conservative or i want to go after the republicans, she looked at the facts. she understood what the requisite burden of proof was and felt like she couldn't make that out, which is what she did, made the decision that she did. she has to get her level of flowers when it comes to this for doing her job. because a lot of people have been criticizing her, of course, it's a right-wing talking point, we all know this, about the fact this is just basically an extension of biden's doy and something that's out to get conservatives and republicans. but what we see now with respect to lindsey graham and other people who were not necessarily charged in the indictment, but were recommended by the grand jury, is that she took a methodical, logical, and proper approach applying the facts to

the law and making her decision. >> joyce, want to switch a little bit to the other side of the country and talk about the state of colorado. we have right now an interesting case going on here with the 14th amendment. where basically, you have citizens for responsibility have filed a lawsuit on behalf of six colorado voters seeking to keep trump off the state's ballots under the 14th amendment which says anyone who engaged in insurrection or rebellion after taking a an oath to defend the constitution is ineligible to hold office. it seems like there was something similar, this seems to make sense to me. if you have a former president of the united states who tried to violently overthrow the government the first thing you would think they would do is say hey, you probably shouldn't be able to run for office again or serve in office again. what is sort of the legal basis of this case? we know it probably doesn't have much of a chance, but is it something we might see occurring in other states even though trump is saying i'm going to fight this and this is political interference? >> sure, we may well see more

lawsuits like this. and there's some technical legal issues like who has standing to bring a case. the sort of preliminary gatekeeping issues that courts consider. this case is possibly vulnerable on those grounds. but the real issue here is the threshold for 14th amendment consideration. what does it take to show that a former president engaged in insurrection? congress has never passed any sorts of laws that would enable that decision making. we saw a candidate for state offices in new mexico who was disqualified. that state did have some enabling laws that they believe made it possible for them to take that action. you know, the real problem here is that the two prosecutors that have looked at this, neither one has indicted trump for insurrection. that means that there's an argument here to be made that no one believes that is a matter of law. whether he's convicted in the court of public opinion for

insurrection, of course, an entirely different matter. >> joyce, i have to point this out because it was you, your name was invoked so we have to talk about this. it appears that the twice impeached extremely problematic president actually said your name on truth social. he came out and said, groups like norm eisen, joyce vance, they are perhaps illegally working with lisa monaco, an injustice. i have been beating them for years. how does it feel to join the ranks of elie mystal, hillary clinton, to be the kind of person that these insurrectionists now see you to be a threat. do you feel honored, offended, how do you feel? >> you know, what the country really deserves from donald trump is what it will never get. a moment of introspection where he looks inside and instead of calling ought random names on

social media, instead takes responsibility for what he did, but i fear we will never get that. >> we're not going to see a lot of apologies here. charles, i want to ask you this quickly. as we move forward, with mark meadows beesh done, donald trump about to try the same thing, do you think anyone else perhaps lower on the pole, anyone else who is part of the indictments who might try this trick again and say look, i'm different from mark meadows and trump. or do you think after this ruling and after trump likely getting a no, this will be a done deal and no one else will try to move their case to federal? >> well, jason, i do think we may see this maneuver again. it's a tactic that when you have very little to go on, you're going to try everything you have. i don't think it will take as much time to decide because as we saw with mark meadows, we're going to see quick work made of these sorts of arguments. there's no reason to really consider it, but that doesn't stop defense attorneys from doing everything they can to try to advocate for their client. whether they do or do not is not the issue. the real issue is this is going

nowhere and going nowhere fast. >> got to get those billable hours. joyce and charles, thank you so much for starting us off tonight on "the reidout." up next, if we have learned anything over the past few years, it's that elections have consequences, and if trump wins in 2024, there's already a terrifying government in waiting planning to fire thousands of federal workers and lower the boundary between church and state. "the reidout" continues right after this. j.p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy to get lost in investment research. get help with j.p morgan personal advisors. hey, david! ready to get started? work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. so great getting to know you, let's take a look at your new investment plan. ok, great! this should have you moving in the right direction. thanks jen. get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. thursday night football on prime. it's on.

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crackpots insurrectionists and weekend terrorists are laying the groundwork to turn our government into a trumpist nightmare if the ormer president somehow manages to get back into the white house in 2024. the a.p. reports on a plan laid out for project 2025. a government in waiting for trump's return. quote, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on day one to commandeer, reshape, and do away with what republicans deride as the deep state. fire as many as 50,000 federal workers. the goal is to oust employees they believe are standing in the way of the president's agenda and replacing them with like-minded individuals. that should sound familiar since it's directly linked to donald trump's authoritarian plans overall. "new york times" reported in july that trump and his associates have a broader goal, to alter the balance of power by increasing the president's authority over every part of the

federal government that now operates by either law or tradition with any measure of independence from political interference from the white house. numerous former trump officials are involved with project 2025. look, it's not some shadowing behind the scenes effort. it's been open about its plans to gut working protections and dismantle environmental protections. it includes making right wing christianity the government's job. it's all in there, the playbook calling on the next president to maintain a biblically based, social science re-enforced definition of marriage and family. guthrie gray fitzsimmons writes, concern about policies of this kind aren't only about the possible return of donald trump to office. this is about the next republican president, whoever it may be, is going to be pushing christian nationalism. joining me now is david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones, msnbc political analyst, and author of american psychosis, which comes out on

paperback next week. david, i always say that the most dangerous people when it comes to protecting our government, it ain't the guys in shaman costumes. it's not the weekend warriors with punisher signs on their flack jackets they got at rei. it's men and women in suits who write policy, who slowly but surely undermine our government. put this project 2025 in the frame. how dangerous is this? >> let me expand a little bit. a lot of people who watch, people who are concerned about authoritarianism in america focus on onald trump. i think rightfully so. he incited violence, he says we should suspend the constitution, and he has his own campaign plan to impose an autocratic government should he get back into the white house. but what we see with project 2025 is a project funded at $22 million that has dozens of right

wing far right groups that have been in town and that are considered established right wing organizations like the heritage foundation. they have been doing something like this since 1980, the first mandate for leadership was for the reagan folks when they were coming in. so now they have joined forces with trump to sort of say this is how you can do it. we know that trump isn't capable himself. he doesn't have the discipline, the understanding of how government works, so here we have dozens of groups, hundreds of people, millions of dollars to put together a schematic plan for trump to come in, and at the heart of it is getting rid of 10,000, 50,000, 100,000 or more federal workers. these are the people who like if the president comes in and says i want to drill on the mall, they say, they are career civil servants, they they that's not what the bill says.

now, under this plan, trump can say you're out of here. you know, there's a loyalty oath. there's an oath to my policies if you don't do what i want you to say, and so the whole idea of an independent expertise driven civil service government work force would be gone. >> want to play you some sound. this is really important, paul dancy, director of the project on firing federal employees. i think this is key. >> ultimately, what we want to do is make sure that the federal bureaucracy is being directed by the people, through the president and his team. >> here's the thing. we already have the republican organization. they keep saying they're not a party. they're basically a cover for the maga terrorist movement. they didn't even have a platform in 2020. they just wanted a loyalty pledge. what he's saying is we're going to put nice words, but we want every federal employee to have a loyalty pledge, not to the

government in general, not to american citizens but only to donald trump. how dangerous is that and how close would that take us to absolute authoritarianism? >> i think it's highly dangerous. there are a lot of issues out there, whether it's public health, right, even foreign policy, where there are things that are not up to now have not been considered partisan. there are policies, there are ways to do things. if you want to build an airport, there are regulations. the epa has people specialized. now donald trump can come in and say i want that airport near my country club. i don't care what the epa regulations it violates. if you say it's wrong, you're fired. the chilling effect this is going to have, and anybody occupant there who might watch msnbc at home, they come in, you know, you're watching msnbc. you're out of here. so it really gives them this total control. and it's part of this whole move on the right to come up with a unitary executive. for decades they have been pushing this, saying we don't

have balance of power and checks and balances, that the president gets to run the show. it's not what the constitution says. i don't think it's what the founders envisioned, but it is an autocratic government. when you put that in the hands particularly of someone like donald trump, a narcissist who wants all this power, it is a recipe for tremendous danger and for the consolidation of power that undermines democracy. >> and also, the idea of saying this is about civil service, to me, the concern i have is it puts this patina on legitimacy. these people are terrorists. you're saying i'm going to create the foot soldiers for the people operating under terrorism. we have seen abundantly clear that trump and the people who work with him have no issue using violence. >> great example, donald trump has said that if he comes into office, he will pardon the january 6th insurrectionists. let's take another step further. let's say he comes back in and there's something like that again.

he can order under these new plans, he can order the justice department to not prosecute people who attack his political enemies. he could encourage it, part of this is taking control of the whole federal criminal justice system. that's what they want to do, it's in the book. people have been talking about this outside of this project. he would be able to create his own shock troops and then give them impunity to do whatever he wants to do in order to retain power. it really causes the mind to reel if you think about what future elections and politics will look like if one person is given that much power. >> one man can't have all that power, and it would turn stand back and stand by from just a catch phrase to actual policy. thank you for joining us this evening on "the reidout." >> up next, despite ron desantis's presidential campaign being a complete disarray, he still manages to make all the wrong choices. his most recent one, appointing the moms for liberty cofounder to florida's ethics commission.

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further into his extremist culture war nonsense. this week alone, he appointed the cofounder of the book banning group moms for liberty to the florida commission on ethics and floated the idea of pardoning members of the proud bys who were sentenced to years in prison for their role in the january 6th insurrection. ah, yes, real issues poom care about. meanwhile, desantis' 15-week abortion ban is at the center of a supreme court case that will determine the future of abortion access in the state, and if the conservative leaning court upholds that law and even stricter sibs-week ban also signed by desantis would automatically take effect. joining me now is dr. christina greer, associate professor of political science. a fellow affccny, and host of the blackest questions podcast. and dean obadiah, msnbc columnist and host of the dean obadiah show on sirius xm. we have a lot to talk about. i'll start with you, dr. greer. i don't mean this facetiously.

i mean this respectfully. how soon before we just see ron desantis quit? it seems like he only exists now as sort of political punching bag. nobody wants to give money to his campaign. he cratered in the polls. he's barely going to make it to iowa. do you think he's going to make it to away? >> i think he will because he doesn't want to quit, and there's still quite a few republicans who don't feel like they have a lot of options. you know, the base of the primary voter in the republican party definitely is still with donald trump, but if you're a real donor, you're slowly puing away from ron desantis, but you don't want to bet on a horse with 91 criminal indictments in front of him and charges across four states. they want someone. nikki haley, we know there are a lot of people who will never vote for a woman, a lot of people in the country who will never vote for a person of color, especially in the republican party, and who will never vote for a woman of color. nikki haley is out, tim scott is

out. a lot of people where they want to like them, but ron desantis is essentially, he was supposed to be their guy. and he has depleted just in spectacular fashion in every single interaction he's had with the american public outside of florida. >> dean, running through a bunch of policy. this entertains me immensely. it looks like the republicans want to rebrand their pro-life stance because it's been hurting them at the polls. senator kevin cramer, north dakota, says what intrigued me most about the results is pro-choice and pro-life means something different now, that people see being pro-life is against all abortions at all levels. i saw the image of a bunch of 60-year-old white male republicans trying to put together this new formula. everybody is so creative. no, you're not going to be able to remix this menu and recipe to make it tolerable. what do you think of this republican attempt to try to dress up a brand and a policy that most americans just don't

like? >> jason, you don't get that if you change the bumper sticker, women won't realize they have lost a fundamental right to control their own body. like, oh, my god. it's called pro-baby now. i still if forced to carry this pregnancy to term because of your religious beliefs, yes, but we have a new nickname. you can always go to mexico because the mexico supreme court this week said now you can't ban abortion anymore. look, the republicans in 14 states ban abortion at conception. this is a human rights violation. i don't care what term you use. they're forcing women to carry a fetus to term because of their religious views. the same way they accuse muslims like we want to impose sharia law. we never wanted to. they're doing it now, it's a human rights violation. no cute bumper sticker or nickname or tiktok video is going to change what you're putting women through, which is barbaric to me. >> you can call it climate change, global warming, the fact of the matter was it was 91

degrees yesterday in september. dr. greer, i have paid a lot of attention to hot strike summer. we both have friends and colleagues who work in the television industry and hollywood and everything else like that. i want to play you sound from a very prominent television commentary person about these current strikes and get your thoughts on the other side. >> they're asking for a lot of things. >> like what i find objectionable about the philosophy of this strike, it seems to be they have really morphed a long way from 2007 strike where they kind of believe that you're owed a living as a writer. and you're not. this is show business. this is a make or miss league. >> if get off my lawn was a person, dr. greer, i just give you the floor. how bad is what we just heard? >> okay, so really quickly, i want to circle back just really quickly. there is no such thing as pro-life. i don't want to use republican

talking points. it's pro-choice or anti-choice, and what republicans are doing is trying to take choice away from women and girls. we know republicans are not pro-life. they believe in the death penalty, they'll starve women and children and families. they're using anti-choice policy. that's over there. bill maher, i do not understand why this network and others continue to give this man air time. he's shown time and time again he does not care about working people, about communities of color. we could look at the record, he has been consistent, just because he moved from being a hard core right wing person and lost his endorsements and then sort of moved over to being more progressive in quotes and now he's some sort of weird libertarian, we know the wga strike and the sag strike is about living wages. this is a fundamental human rights conversation that we're trying to have, where we have executives, eight of them making close to billions of dollars, and other people who can't afford health insurance, can't

afford food. yes, this is capitalism, yes, we're well aware of how capitalism has worked in the country for over 400 years, but we're having a conversation now about people who need to get paid for their work. they need to get paid for their work and their creativity. all these networks that make money off the back of hard working people that work 13 to 20 hours a day, you can't tell me some executive is working so hard he needs a $65 million parachute every time he goes into the office for each year. so i just -- bill maher is beyond frustrating because he's been the same bill maher for the past 25 years. and somehow we expect him to change, and he has shown time and time again that he is not ever on the right side of history. >> i don't see why it's kooky for workers to want to know how much their shows are watched so they can determine a fair wage from a streamer or anyone else from that matter. dean, we're going to move to foreign policy very quickly. there's a bond villain masquerading as the man who owns

twitter now, x, names elon musk, who new reports have shown that he actively and directly thwarted an attempt by sneak attack by the ukrainians against the russians. look, it's not only problematic that we have a military industrial complex as big as it is, but the fact you can have one individual with strong idealogical leanings who is able to thwart military operations for one side or the other seems extremely dangerous. what are your thoughts on this and should the federal government do something about this if we're going to be giving all this funding to ukraine? >> i'm not sure who is worse, bill maher or elon musk. they're both awful. but elon musk, bill maher is just being callous. a millionaire saying writers who are my friends who are out of work and struggling to make ends meet should get over their kooky demands of getting fair pay, but elon musk, what he did by preventing this drone strike against the russian military, a

military target, not a civilian one, allow the military ships to fire missiles at targets and literally killed children. that's what the ukraine official has said about what elon musk did. elon musk chose in that moment russia over ukraine, over our ally, over democracy. i have so many issues with elon musk. there is someone who has just increasingly gone to the right. part of being maga now is being pro bully. to me, it's consistent with that, despicable, vile. bill maher vile in his own way. elon musk may have blood on his hands. >> as i said before, no one man or woman should have all that power. dr. christia greer and dean obadiah will be back later. first, joy reid has a special report on the vegan women's summit in new york. she tried out the food so you will get to see it next. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines.

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let innovation refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com clink! there are a lot of compelling reasons to go vegan. it's better for the environment, avoids animal cruelty. it's tasty lot of times. when you think of vegan food, you might think of tofu or sprouts, but it's way beyond that. even beyond meat with lab grown meat that tastes like real cheeseburgers and even vegan couture. joy reid recently visited the vegan women's summit in new york. take a look.

>> all right, here i am in brooklyn. walking into the vegan women's summit. here we go. we're going to try some beef that was never a cow. we'll see how that goes. >> let's go this way. i want to take a look at some items. look at those boots. right here, a big bag. this is gorgeous. so vegan just means it's fake leather. >> that's a brilliant question because we want to make sure we're educating consumers nowadays that vegan does not always mean the best material, right? a lot of green washing going on lately where people are labeling things. >> they're saying it's vegan. >> but for us, our initiative is not only to be vegan, but the most sustainable ever. we're launching our first ever leather alternative that is all

natural, plant based and no plastic. >> this is where i break the rule, never eat on camera. >> hi. >> this is the world's first plant based honey with no bees. >> no bees? wait a minute. we're going to try vegan honey without bees. it tastes like ja. >> does it pass the test? >> and i love honey. thank you. we >> we have three shifts that are joining us from around the world. so we are here at your vegan women's summit. why did you create it, and why are we here? >> we are here because i believe and 1000 other people here believe that women are the key to unlocking the food system and we know the food system is a huge part of how are going to address the climate crisis, and we have over 1000 people today that are all on board with how we're

going to do that. >> what have we got here? >> we have organic fair trade chocolate candy, and everything on the table is vegan. >> i'm very pro chocolate. so no milk? >> absolutely no. we are avigan company. our strategy is to recreate the dairy products that people love with a plant based matrix. we've got blue cheese with an apricot jam and a little slice of apple apple jam. >> i'm going to give that a shot. >> that is delicious. explain to me what i am looking at here. >> these are ohio valleys while gloomy burgers. they are a combination -- burger which is a blend of plant-based meat and cultivated sauce. what >> he is cultivated cells? what does that mean? >> they are collected from animals. we do a biopsy. it's not painful. and then we grow the cells with

cell culture technology, and that's how we cultivate them. we grow cells, cluster cells, and we grow fat cells. those are the main cells, to flavor meet. when they finished growing way we combine them into our products. >> so basically grow a steak and not a cow? >> yes. >> the idea, i guess, is, cruelty-free, there is no bunch of animals behind a pan being slaughtered, to be blunt, and it's a less cool way to have real beat. >> yes, and it's great for the environment. >> all right, here we go. god bless everyone, including the cows, especially the cows, most especially. and i love a cheeseburger. i'm a tough customer. i'm a very tough customer. here we go. definitely tastes like a cheeseburger. one more buy.

it's got the consistency of a cheeseburger. the flavor of a cheeseburger. it's good. >> thanks. so glad you enjoyed. it >> thank you very much. it's good. welcome to the future of food. >> i hope you enjoy that segment as much as i did. who won the week is next on the reidout. stay with us. stay with us use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management.

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another week. which means it's time to play who won the week. back with me our christina greer and dean obeidallah. christina greer, we will start with you. >> i'm gonna say d.c. district charge timothy kelly, who sentenced enrique tarrio to 22 years in prison for his role in the january six insurrection, and he made a very clear statement that these individuals who stormed the capitol weber skidded to the full extent of the law, no matter what promises were made, and that white promises don't have to be white, apparently. and 22 years is a long time, and i think it sends a real message, and i hope it sets a precedent moving forward. >> tarrio has 22 years to find out. dean, who won the week, as far

as you're concerned? >> christina, nice try, but the winner of the week with section three of the 14th amendment. it's 154 years old, but everyone's talking about it. it's bigger than taylor swift. it's on cable news. people are learning about the constitution. they're learning about what an insurrection is. and they're being reminded that trump led an insurrection and is continuing to give aid and comfort to the insurrectionists including giving the money. >> you are both wrong. the winner of the week is vice president kamala harris, who is putting together this amazing thing. you've got common jeezy, she's putting together an event celebrating hip-hop's 50th anniversary saturday. i will be there. several other hosts and guests will be there tomorrow. it is an event that is being presented in collaboration with the -- black music collective and live nation. i think it's amazing when vice president harris does this kind of cultural work. it reminds people what a great job she's doing. christine greer, and in obeidallah, that is tonight's

read out. be sure to check out my podcast, award with jason johnson. my word this week's qualm a, one of the big, boys cofounder of let's be honest, an organization that promotes the art of collectible toys. the all in with chris hayes starts right now. e all in with chris ha>> tonigh. >> we've had a hell of a journey. i hated being this way. >> fulton county special grand jury report is out. >> the special grand jury listened to him, testify under oath and then decided he was a criminal. >> tonight, from michael flynn to boris epstein, kelly loeffler to david perdue. the beginning patients for trump and his codefendants as the mark meadows request to move to federal court is rejected. and the desperate re-brand of toxic policy that keeps costing in them elections. why repuan