you can listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. search for insight with jen psaki wherever you get your podcasts. we will be back here next sunday at noon eastern. stay right where you are, there's much more news coming up on msnbc. there's much mor>> tonight on tn show. well we all took a deep breath when it comes to those 2024 trump versus biden polls, the media headlines are telling you the whole story. i'll be bringing you some receipts. plus, new york has always been a city of immigrants, but mayor eric adams now says that they will, quote, destroy the city. new york state senator jessica ramos will be here to push. back in the gop presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy, will catch up with the viral interview on him where i pressed him on donald trump and his own mishit information

about his past. good evening, i'm mehdi hasan. it is done, it is over. joe biden cannot win. he's too old, too unpopular, 2024 will be a disaster for the democrats. that seems to be the new conventional wisdom among the puck atletico and media leaders. they are very serious people, including our olympic level pontificator, is the pied of pundits, podcasters. those, week those people, the very serious people, we're obsessed with two undeniably brutal polls for joe biden. one for the wall street journal indicating nearly three quarters of voters feeling that the president is too old to run again, and one from cnn showing that most democrats wish they habited different alternatives for biden, who's losing to almost every republican candidate in the same poll. the headlines for biden and the democrats this week were even more brutal than those two poles. another dire poll for biden. say it isn't joe.

americans don't really like joe biden right now, democrats wake up to red flags. biden's age might be a growing problem for his reelection. biden's unpopularity could give trump a shot at reclaiming his power. i could go on and on, but i won't. tonight, i want to start up by saying that we have to calm the hell down. just hold on. first off, polls are polls. remember the polls last year predicting a red wave in the midterms? some polls are reliable, some are not so reliable. some are outliers, some are not outliers. some are bad for biden, some are actually good for the president. you probably didn't hear about the morning consult poll, which also came out this week on wednesday. even hear about that one. it shows biden leading trump by three points, and desantis by five points among the general election. funny, it didn't produce a bunch of dire headlines for trump and the gop.

secondly, we are 14 months out from the election. in fact, 421 days to be precise. when we as a country where that far out from the 1984 presidential election, senator john glenn of ohio, who is battling walter mondale for the democratic nomination, was leading president ronald reagan according to a host of polls. mondale himself was neck and neck with him. like biden, like back then reagan was dealing with low approval ratings and age issues. unlike biden, a very bad economy. nevertheless, what was the eventual result 14 months later? reagan won in a landslide in 1984, sweeping 49 states once all of the votes were counted. that is hardly the sole historical case study for us to look back upon for insight. let's go back to september of 2011, 14 months out from an election, according to the polls. obama was at the lowest point of his presidency. not only that, a gallup questionnaire indicated that he

was trailing mitt romney in a hypothetical 2012 matchup. he was tied with rick perry, and he was barely ahead of those noted electoral juggernauts, ron paul and michelle back man. it is not just a short summer slump, following his old boss well into the -- long after starbucks ahead restocked their season a pumpkin spice lattes. i say all of this to convey one simple message. there is still time. quite a bit of time, actually. the holiday season will bring good tidings and great joy of, course but also plenty of opportunities for american consumers to feel the effects of holy conflation. at the iowa caucus approaches mid january, the caucus will only grow uglier and nastier, meaning that a few bumps will be directed at the white house. the spring of next year will be dominated by trump trial coverage, multiple trials. this brings me to my final point, -- fundamentally, as long as trump is the republican nominee as looks likely, negative partisanship will rule the 2020

election, which is to say the democrats and the few in dependents will head out to the box in droves, not because they are head over heels, but because they despise the republican alternative. as the spring and summer of 2024 nears, it will be real -- to quote crooked medias wry and -- i think that trump, although ladder now that he was for the past two years, still pretty invisible, and particularly by comparison to his final months in office where his school -- returns to our daily lives, on trial in multiple, courts and we once again cannot escape him. i think it will trigger something like a trauma response in the body politic. memories are short, but they are longer for recording the fiasco of the trump presidency. let me rings unquestionably true. i have data to back me up. in a summer focus group of north carolina's swing voters, which is reported as being bad for biden because they were concerned about his age, most of those swing voters, withheld

of those age concerns, still said that they would end up voting for biden is the choice was biden v. trump. it's alarmism we're seeing everywhere is not warranted yet. we should not get complacent either. biden could win, or biden could lose. all we know is that it will be a close election because we live in a two party system where it's a polarized electorate. and it's in favor of the republicans, no matter how bad of a candidate they nominate. experts think that they will need a minimum lead of two and a half to 3% in the popular vote in order to triumph over trump in the electoral college. effected trump, despite two impeachments, violin insurrections, and it for criminal indictments, probably neck and neck with biden at this point, and not down by 20 or 20 points. it's pretty crazy. it's pretty shocking. it is a clear sign of just how cultish the gop has begun. if -- west definitely ends up running as a left-wing protest candidate, or if the right-wing no labels put up a spoiler

candidate. maybe even joe manchin, then joe biden could be in serious trouble. for now, with more than 400 days to go, losing your marbles over a couple of average polls is not good for your health, and is not at all justified. there's no reason for democrats to panic, and especially when the joe biden reelection campaign is only starting to get going, and is actually putting some dish decent ads on air, like this one this week. >> he entered ukraine in the cover of night, and in the morning, joe biden walked shoulder to shoulder with our allies of the war toward streets. standing up for democracy in a place where a tyrant is waging war and taking it away. >> air raid sirens flared as the two men walked together. >> in the middle of a war zone, joe biden showed the world what america's made of. that's the quiet strength of a new leader who does not back down to a dictator.

>> look, i have long been a critic of democratic party messaging, but i am the old guy who took a secret ten hour train ride into an active war zone, the first president to ever do so without military protection. it's a pretty good message. joining us now is simon rosenberg, a democratic party strategist and author of hoquiam chronicles on substack, and michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and political analyst. thank you both for joining us this evening. simon, you are one of the only people to be pushing back against all of the red wave predictions in polls last year ahead of the midterms. you approved that right. how do you feel about the dire biden polls we are seeing this week? >> it's a little bit of a red wave. i think you did a great job of explaining where we are. i feel very good about where we are. i would much rather ask them as we head into 2024. i think our coalition right now, they are fully engaged in that side. we've got an active primary

campaign, they've got their leaders being challenged now. our coalition had a great summer. people aren't really paying attention on our side. i think that the polls are fine. the people that are freaking out a little bit, the most important political data to me is the continued strong performances seeing from democrats in special elections across the country. we saw it in jacksonville, florida, we saw it in, colorado springs, colorado. we saw it in ohio. with this is very similar to the stuff we saw in 2022. post-dobbs, there is been one political climate, and it's been really good for us, and really bad for them. >> michelle, you wrote a piece for the new york times last summer, headlined joe biden is too old to be president again. now that he is almost certainly going to be the democratic presidential nominee, do you still feel like that? how do the democrats tackle the undeniable age issue? >> obviously, joe biden is 100,

or he's preferable to any of the republicans are going to put up. i was quite worried about his age, not so much his performance, i think he's been an excellent president, but just the polls. the people that aren't in politics, or following the politics excessively, it's not that they think he's been a bad president, he's just too old and hard to watch. i think that this party would've benefited from a primary, but it's going to be the candidate now. i think what people who are terrified of a re-run of the trump regime have to do is figure out a way to pull him across the finish line. >> and michelle, that ad was a pretty good ad in terms of dealing with the age of consent. >> absolutely. quiet strength, that is kind of a good tagline for joe biden. i also wonder if it's time not maybe for a biden administration, but for some of

those democratic groups, to start going after trump for being old and stumbling and out of touch. i think that's what republicans in this position would do. they would take whatever attack was being launched at them and turn it back around. trump is a fairly easy track your target for that kind of attack. >> the idea that joe biden's age should be an issue when he's going up against a person, camera, man, woman, whatever it is, guy. that is still establishing -- simon, you wrote in a recent substack piece, the polling is only a snapshot into a moment, and cannot predict anything. at what point do you get concerned if the polls keep showing trump leaning over biden, neck and neck, the ages are getting more salient. when you start to get concerned? is it the new year? is it the spring? to echo what michel was saying, and one of the -- who don't spend our whole life watching the news. they say, i'm not sure about biden. is he too old? izzy the right guy?

is there a danger of that becoming a self filling prophesy? >> it is important to campaign turn on. we need to start talking to the american people. we don't have to panic, but we have to be smart here. we have to get the poll numbers, up we have to get the numbers. up in particular with the economy, these are essential things. they're doable things. the important thing is that the stuff we need to do to win our things that we can do. the stuff that they need to do, putting lipstick on the trump paid, making him a serious candidate, that's a much harder job in my view. on your question, by february or march, we're going to start to have a really better understanding of where things are. once trump is clearly the nominee, biden is clearly the nominee, it's going to be a two person binary choice. and then the data will start to matter much more. i just want to reiterate that we had 38 elections this year. democrats are outperforming on the partisan lean of those districts by ten points. it's much more similar to the

kind of performance that we saw in 2022. we should be very heartened. when people are voting, because polls did not do a good job of telling us what happened, what told us was how people voted. when people vote this year, we are doing very well. it should hearten everyone as we head into 2024. >> you mentioned february and march where trump and biden will clearly be the nominees. trump can even celebrate winning the nomination with a getaway, maybe somewhere like fulton county, georgia. nbc news reported this week the republicans now want to reframe the position on abortion, as perhaps pro baby. and not pro life, which does not seem to be working for them. can the abortion issue be the democrats winning card in 2024? how much can they lean into dobbs and the gop's ongoing attacks at the state level of women's rights? it is done pretty well for them right now, simon has mentioned the state races, the other races were people haven't paid much attention to. in a presidential, and could that be the winning card?

>> absolutely. one of those things that really hurt them in 2016, people found it hard to believe that trump being as lousy and premised -- very serious about ending roe v. wade. now it's no longer a hard sell. we're going to see if abortion is a live issue in many of the swing states. for example, in wisconsin, it seems very likely that republicans are going to be impeaching the supreme court justice, -- and in the hopes of she would reverse and go with the majority to reverse their draconian 19th century abortion ban. now republicans are going to impeach. and that means that it's going to be a live issue in wisconsin going into next year. i think that the democrats need to keep hammering on this. the idea the republicans are going to be aligning this with a very fast change absurd.

women know very well what they've lost. >> once they go pro baby, no definite going pro universal health care, right? one last question, 30 seconds to go last question. how about the senate in the house next year? is there a chance to win back the house? >> yeah, the senate is 50/50. and it will be 50/50 for election day. and i think the house as much more likely to go, if biden wins by three, or, four or five lens. so it is very important that we get biden's numbers up. that is the number one job for the family. and we have to work to amplify the works of biden and his presidency, and i just think people should feel good about where we are. we've got a long way to go, along they work ahead of us. i think people should feel dead. i echo everywhere that you said. >> simon rosenberg, michelle goldberg, thank you for your analysis.

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progressive, and diverse, blue cities in america. and nearly 40% of its population are immigrants. democrats there had their share of picks for progressive mayoral candidates. in 2021, instead, they went with this guy. >> 110,000 migrants. we have to feed, clothes, house, educate two children, wash their laundry sheets, give them everything they made. we are getting no support on this national cases.

this issue will destroy new york city. >> now, mayor eric adams have been heavily criticized by credit sivs for those comments he made. and -- from the southern border. and he's also being praised, not just because of that one today are cool of the anti immigration rhetoric. but by the not seize. the daily news reported that a neo-nazi blog posted on friday, that referred to mayor adams as based. and they also went on to call his comments insightful. i'll be honest, when neil not cease are praising your immigration rhetoric? you might have gotten it really, really wrong. but adams is doubling down and insisting new york city agencies come up with plans to reduce spending by 50% in the coming months. and again blaming that on the cost of caring for the newly

arrived migrants. joining me to discuss, democratic new york state senator ramos. thanks for coming on the show tonight. you told politico this week that you haven't been able to sleep thinking about quote, the indices spewed at the town hall. you also called the rhetoric xenophobic, how damaging do you think the remarks are from the mayor? >> thanks mehdi, this is incredibly personal to me. i am the daughter of colombian immigrants. my mom actually flew to mexico and cross the matter sickle border several days ago in order to be born here. and actually, as someone who just managed to wage the minimum wage in the slate legislature. so we're definitely here not to destroy things, we are here to contribute to new york and make it a hell of a lot better. and i think that the real difference here is that the way that we view immigrants, truly in new york, is as a united front, we have to make sure that we are uniting as you new

yorkers to face our challenges together. not antagonize any particular group. and while, of course, we are waiting for help from the federal administration, i think a lot much more collaborative approach, and certainly much more collaborative rhetoric would go along the way. but there is a lot to say about the local budget as well. so, we are going to continue to make sure that new yorkers stand up for the true fabric of our city. i have been to represent the most diverse district in the entire country. we speak more than 200 languages. we are de safe, we are black, we are white. we come in every color. and we make new york better because of it. >> mayor adams was actually on this network this, morning with my colleague, jonathan capehart. this is what he said in response to congresswoman ocasio-cortez pushing back against his remarks. have a listen. >> understand what you hear those on the far left, that are

stating how we are dividing the city the with the reality is a need for them to step up. i'm hoping that the congresswoman will come in, and walk through the conditions and see how we cannot properly take care of those who are in here if we don't get the resources that we need. >> senator, what is your response to that? >> we do need the federal government to step up, that is for sure, but there is a lot to say about the city budget and how that has been mismanaged over the past, almost two years and i know this because as a mother of two myself, i saw how in his first year, the city budget, mayor adams actually cut funding to our schools. despite the state legislature sending every nickel-and-dime that our schools are owed. and so it did make sense, knowing at that moment last year that we are already welcoming migrant children, that we would actually do --

he walked in with these austerity measures from the get-go, but at the same time we have seen how he has doled out outsized salaries to his family, friends, and allies. and has not even fed it contracts properly. so there is a lot to say how money has been managed at the city level. >> do you think he cynically is scapegoating migrants to justify austerity that he was going to do anyways? >> i do, i think that it is easy to point and blame especially when that's a popular thing to do with right-wing people. and it's an easy scapegoat for that you can just throw your hands up in the air and justify or find an excuse for not taking the appropriate measures to handle for example our housing affordability crisis that predates this one. it has just been a domino effect and a reflection of all

new yorkers that were separated before this situation and certainly for the pandemic. >> in july there was a meeting of political not consulate, since and leaders to discuss who would go up against -- in 2025. given the new admirers are neo-nazis and he begins to follow the faces of donald trump in many ways. this seems nationally put glacial on the part of except was. and yours is put in the mix. does as mary -- >> i do think that mayor adams needs to be primaried. i think someone has to do it. i think we need to have a conversation as a city that speaks to how we protect the new yorkers. accepting the reality of climate change, except of the reality of what our world is today. the world is changing, new york is evolving, and our policies are economic policies and housing policies in particular

need to evolve with it. so, i am happy to be supportive of a primary and really someone has to do it. we will see who it is. but i will be there along the way. >> new york state senator ramos, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you for having me mehdi. >> coming up! an update on that devastating earthquake in morocco. uake in morocco. it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. thursday night football on prime. it's on. thursday night football returns, as the vikings take on the eagles. stream thursday night football. only on prime. ♪ shelves.

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>> good evening mehdi. the latest on the breaking story. rescue teams are still racing to find survivors from friday's massive earthquake in morocco. over 2100 people confirmed dead as of today. that number is expected to increase. unfortunately. another 2400 people are injured with the majority in critical condition. the u.n. estimating hair, over 300,000 people were affected by the quake. now, some of the worst destruction it is in an isolated mountain area outside of the epicenter. about 46 miles outside of marrakech. roads into these communities are often narrow and why, dig many blocked by boulders and rubble. some locals are leading search efforts as they wait for the government resources to arrive. hundreds are sleeping outdoors in marrakech, many homes severely damaged. and others fear of being indoors during an afterthought. international crews are assisting recovery efforts, including a small team of experts from the u.s.. and morocco's keg with ordered the army to deploy helicopters

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that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. >> monday marks 22 years since 9/11. proprietor in 9/11 in the united states, in september 2001. there was another 9/11. 16 years ago, on september 11th,

1973 in chile. the democratically elected president was deposed in the military coup. right-wing general, augusto, lead and installed himself a dictator. thousands of chileans were tortured, killed, and forcibly disappeared over the nearly 17 years of the fascist regime. why am i telling you what this? because we, the united states, helped it happen. helped to produce that other 9/11. specifically, this man. henry kissinger. former national security adviser to president richard nixon. he was a primary architect of u.s. intervention and chile. of policies both covert and overt that created the conditions for the removal, and support of the dictatorship in the years that followed. schools of the classified documents highlight kissinger's leading role in actively undermining the government, and democracy itself. it goes back to september 12, 1970. eight days after the election

when kissinger discuss the leftist candace victory with nze director, richard holmes. quote, we will not let chile go down the drain. he said. in a meeting that included kissinger, president nixon ordered the cia to quote, make the academy scream in chile. he ordered a recommendation against covert u.s. action against him, and the deputy in the security council. and instead, pushed nixon to support a policy of regime change in chile. after he was successfully not graded in 1970. in a secret now to the, presidential after the negotiations, he wrote that the president of chile poses for us one of the most serious challenges ever face in the hemisphere. he noted how the democratic -- and implementation of progressive policies, and the reallocation of resources cuddly to a quote, insidious model effect in the region. cannot have that. less than three weeks later, kissinger outlined the covid action program against i and

they're in a memo to nixon. and, yet when pressed on chile by members of the senate. a year after the cool, in september 1974, kissinger denied any involvement. >> our concerned was the election in 1976. and not at all in the coup in 1973, which we knew nothing. and which we had nothing to do, as i testified to in 1973. and as the president there to. >> while his story historians continue to argue whether that u.s. actively engaged in the 1973 coup against the leader, there is no denying that the u.s. presented the conditions that made regime change possible. and actively support the dictatorship that came after. a phone call between kissinger and nixon on september the 16th, 1973. five days after that coup. five days after chile's 9/11, says it all. kissinger commented, quote, in

the eisenhower period we would be heroes. nixon responded,, quote our hand doesn't show on this one though. to which kissinger says quote, we did not do it. i mean, we helped them. and speaking of heroes, well, today that's how a lot of people, sadly, still see henry kissinger. today, members of our political and media elite adore him. because this year may be the 50th anniversary of chile's 9/11, but it's also the year of henry kissinger's 100th birthday. which he celebrated in may. and for which, numerous, prominent business leaders and politicians showed up. including the current, democratic secretary of state. there he is, antony blinken. leaving that event. forget about legal accountability, the turnout for kissinger's birthday speaks volumes about the complete lack of political, cultural, and moral accountability that he has faced over the past five decades. the fact that henry kissinger is still publishing book, still

getting invited to give speeches, and to do big media interviews. still being honored, and celebrated, despite chile's 9/11. despite his well-documented role in undermining democracy. and establishing. dictatorship in that country. as well as other countries across the globe. is one of the great injustices and outrages of our time. coming up next! part of my viral interview with gop presidential candidate vivek ramaswamy, you do not want to miss it! nt to miss it! you ready? suprise! i don't think you can clear this. i got this. it's yours now.

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breakout star from the gop presidential debate last month just can't stop, seem to stop saying controversial things. on friday he told msnbc news that the president should support american born children of undocumented immigrants. in clear violation of the 14th amendment which states all

people born in the u.s. are citizens of this country. i got a chance to speak with vivek ramaswamy earlier in the week on my peacock show. i pushed him on how he has changes views on donald trump, and january the six, and that many falsehoods he has told about his past. have a watch of part of it. is donald trump, as you say now, the best president of the 21st century, who you say one dozen advisor, and a mentor, if he becomes president? or is trump as you said in the past, and you're, books on twitter, a quote sore loser who is quote, a danger to democracy, and who did quote, downright, abhorrent and egregious things on january the 6th. which when is he vivek? >> so to be crystal clear, between george blush, barack obama, joe biden, and donald trump, those are the presidents of the 21st century. donald trump is unambiguously, as judged by the results, the best presidents of the 21st century. kept us out of wars, grew the economies, i give him full credit for that. i want to build on that foundation and take this country to the next level. >> you also called him a sore loser. a danger to democracy.

that's a bit of a strong word. >> what i have made the same judgments that he has made at every step of the way? no, i will remind you that i'm running for u.s. president. [inaudible] >> you're always very vague about this. can i ask you what they are the back? you say that he behaved and downright abhorrent behavior that made him a danger to democracy. tell me what he did that was downright accords? >> let's actually be really fair to your audience, so enchanted ten, 2021. thereabouts. days after that incident, i wrote an op-ed in the wall street journal. arguing that censorship was a real cause of what happened on january 6th. one astros von, someone asked me the question, are you, well that's what ed wrote a. i'm giving the facts of what i said. that was published in the wall street journal. when pressed on was condoning on what trump did. my answer was no. there's a difference between a bad judgment, and a crime. >> you are avoiding my question. what did donald trump do, in your view, that was downright abhorrence? second time i will ask that

question. >> i think what i would've done differently, if i wasn't issues. >> that's not what i asked. >> reelection of the january 7th, attack. >> what did trump do that was egregious, quote, downright abhorrent and a danger to democracy? can you just explain to our viewers? your words? >> so you are mixing to never quotes, but what i think was reprehensible about what happened that day. look, i think that the way that a true leadership handle that situation, should have been to actually say this is me running for reelection. not actually litigating what has already passed, and then behind us. now done things differently. that's not a crime though. >> i understand. >> the reason that i am so vivid. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> this is what we hear from your mouth. unless you're scared of him. why wouldn't you say what was abhorrent? >> i'm not gonna let you stitch. stitching together three things from three different places. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> what trump did last week was wrong. >> when i have a conversation? >> yes, i want you to answer my question vivek. three times of asset.

what did trump do that was downright appearance? a simple question. your words. on screen. what did he do that was downright abhorrent? >> i believe that failing to unite this country falls short of what it to liter ought to do. that's why i'm in this case, to do things differently than any prior president has done them. that's a hard truth. >> that's what he is a loser, and abhorrent? that's your view? >> none of that is a crime. and the reason that i've been so vocal. the reason that i have been so vocal is because when somebody actually prosecute somebody for a bad judgment. >> i understand your judgment and the litigation. i understand. that's not what i, as what i understand. >> this is a distinction that we have to draw. >> under, said you say your identity politics, anti affirmative action, in a -- law school that was specifically set up for the children of immigrants, it was at an affirmative action scholarship in your defense for that is that you didn't have the money to pay for a law school, even though you've already made more than 1

million dollars at the time. >> that's not true. [inaudible] >> scholarship at the age of 24, you take it. at the age of 20, for american scholarship. you take it. >> i didn't say i had the money. i had a time when i had a lot less money than. all $50,000 was an important amount of money to make. >> you keep forgetting your quote. you said, when i did have the money. >> so,, mehdi i made this really easy for everybody, and i did this in the early weeks of the campaign. i released 20 years of tax returns, something that no presidential candidate, let alone someone who is successful in business has done. i challenge democrats and republicans alike. and the biden family. to do it. and i release it so that you could look to them,. >> i appreciate that. i do appreciate that. [inaudible] [inaudible] here is, 2009. >> everybody can say. it's >> exactly, we have 2009. we have 2000, can i? hold on. you're enthusiasm. 2009, and 2010, you made $750,000. you had the money to pay for law school. he didn't need an affirmative

action scholarship. >> none of this is where, the bad if you think it, is let's get to the detail. that was actually. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> affirmative, actually took a scholarship from immigrants. why did you take a scholarship from immigrants? >> which falsehood would you like me to address? the financial and upper the and why is it pervasive. >> the financial piece of it. not at the time that i had applied. yes >> you did, yes you did it. yes you did vivek. >> i got the text difference of both of it. >> underserved that, or so in the application for the scholarship was in october, mehdi, you're wasting your time on child's details in october and applied for that scholarship. and it was well, got, let the bonuses are hedge fund base. and it's a shame. you don't to be an expert on, this but if you're gonna spout out, you better know something about it. people hate on the hedge fund. the bonuses at the end of the year. and on december 31st, that's when i was paid. i applied for the scholarship

in september. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> you made more money the previous year, you know that? writes no you did it. hold on, no you didn't. you are now telling falsehoods. in 2009, you. [inaudible] and without the, nanuet $250,000. in 2010, you made less, $450,000. so you only made. >> pretax? >> so you are using girl's numbers. but back, go down to your tax returns. you may intuitive at the thousand dollars, and then you accepted a soil scholarship of $50,000 and you didn't need. it. >> the fact is mehdi, $50,000 that make a big difference to me back then. and anybody who has a few hundred thousand dollars in the bank is gonna take care of the thousand hours without strings attached. take the scholarship. but my question for you is, why on earth is you add an intelligent person interested in politics, obsessing over 24 year old 50,000 dollar

scholarship. what [inaudible] >> i'm adjusting a truth. i'm interested in the truth. >> that is why i release 20 years of tax returns. and your friends of the administration to do the same thing. >> coming up! on the top of the hour with him in mali they, in the -- know about manage on social. he will explain why the group is backing voters in colorado. trying to use the 14th amendment to keep donald trump of the ballot next year. but first! ayman joins me, to discuss that interview that you just saw with vivek ramaswamy and the pretty awful state of the gop presidential race. plus don't forget, you can listen to the mehdi hasan show anytime, free, where you get your podcasts! gamechanga! ...while the flexdisc contours to it. so the five blades can get virtually every hair in one stroke. for the ultimate gillette shaving experience. the best a man can get is gillettelabs.

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as we saw in the first debate, and whether you like it or, not out shined some of the others. he certainly took a lot of incoming which shows you that he is perhaps the front runner after donald trump for the vice presidential spot. and, there's something that's interesting. the dynamic here because, it has totally pushed the momentum

away from people like ron desantis. ron desantis's campaign is basically saying, they will be happy to finish second in iowa. this is a guy who couple of years ago was seen as the heir apparent to the republican party nominee. now he's telling you that he would be happy to -- >> gather some goalpost shifting at excitation. what's interesting is that the desantis people all think vivek is running just to be a stop desantis can. and the people on the right you have shared the clips from the interview of the most, guess what, it's the desantis campaign. >> really quickly, one last thing, i know we have to go we could spend an hour talking with us. because i love the part when vegas, don't pay attention to the details you really focusing in on the details. if you -- you know the details actually matter as they should. >> he, eamonn, is a guy that's gotten away with being super comfortable talking really fast. the province, so do i [laughter] >> it was a very important interview, i'm grant glad you did it, i think we all benefit from seeing vague in that position. i thank you so much, enjoy the