>> coming up on ayman. lawmakers return to the hill with a big to do, let's let hard-liner, house republicans are threatening to shut it all down unless they get what they want. and that is, an impeachment vote against joe biden. plus, a group of colorado voters are trying to keep donald trump off the 2024 ballots. noah bookbinder runs the organization helping, he's gonna join us live on the show. and the ultra conservative fifth circuit says those conservative water buoys can remain in the rio grande river. even as tragedies mount. i'm a, let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> this week, lawmakers return to washington, with a bloated and urgent to do less ahead of them. on the agenda, an emergency funding request from the biden administration for disaster, eight following the fires in maui, and hurricane a dahlia. passing a -- reauthorizing the fa, the debate about more money for ukraine. more and more. and most critically, staving off another government shutdown, by a federal budget, by september 30th deadline -- now, you are forgiven if you didn't realize that congress passed such a stacked docket, considering republicans like kevin mccarthy, well, it seems they are focused on an entirely different priority. maybe on a different planet. right now, they are focusing on impeaching president biden. you have, you heard that correctly. despite the fact that the house is only scheduled to be for 11 days before the end of the

fiscal year, you've got representatives marjorie taylor greene and ralph norman, among those pushing to open impeachment inquiry into the commander in chief, right now. green took it a step further, saying she won't support any funding measure, until the house votes to formally begin an inquiry. that's good news for donald trump, who recently took to his failed social media platform, to say, republicans don't need a long inquiry to have enough information to impeach biden. fortunately, others in mccarthy's caucus still recognize that the proposal for the ridiculous farce that it is. more moderate members of his caucus, like congressman dan bacon, are saying there isn't enough concrete evidence to launch an inquiry. and mccarthy's gop colleagues in the senate are even less infused. asked if she believes there is enough evidence to impeach biden, west virginia's arch conservative senator sally moore can-do, also a member of the senate gop leadership said, i do not. that's pretty blunt.

now, if you want to know how we got here, all you've got to do is look at kevin mccarthy. he is stuck in the problem of his own making, and no one else is. this, all after he sold his political soul to the most radical members of his coalition, to become house speaker. these extreme republicans. well, they are demanding an impeachment. pushed, even if it is nonsensical, even if it goes nowhere in the senate. and even if it is a political disaster that everybody knows it is. mccarthy enabled the rodeo but now, he doesn't seem able to contain it. joining me now are former congressman -- he was also a 2020 presidential candidate, pennsylvania state representative matthew -- and kimberly atkins, msnbc political analysts at -- the boston globe, and co-host of the sisters in law pockets. it's great to have all of you with us. kimberly, i spoke with congressman jamie raskin about this republican impeachment push last night, and i thought would be a good place to start.

i want you to take a listen to what he had to say, and then, i will get your thoughts. >> they are going to impeachment, simply because donald trump feels like he doesn't want to run against someone who's not been impeached, when he is the first twice impeached president in u.s. history. i keep reminding my republican colleagues that the constitutional standard for impeachment is treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. and they haven't laid any wrongdoing at the footsteps of joe biden. they've got nothing on him. they've got 91 criminal charges against donald trump, in courts all across the land. and there's nothing against joe biden. and trump can't live with that. >> so kimberly, do you think that is a fair analysis of trump's motivations here?

and while house republicans seriously risk shutting down the government, over something that is so political, and so petty? >> yeah, this is how we got here. there are a handful of members of congress, who are still doing the bidding of donald trump. donald trump wants an impeachment of joe biden, for purely political reasons, and is pushing house republicans to do it, and some are willing, to even so far as congresswoman greene saying that she won't, she would try to stop any vote on keeping the lights on, and avoiding a government shutdown, in order to get an impeachment vote. there are a couple of problems here. one, that contingent of republicans in the house represent a very small percentage of the u.s. voting electorate. and so, that will likely turn out to be unpopular. you also have the problem that a shutdown of the government, people stop getting paid, or getting the relief that they need, that will also be a big problem. in the third is that even if you take all of the inferences, and whatever has been found out of the hunter biden, and how that relates to joe biden, that doesn't even come close to an equivalent with what donald trump was last impeached for, which was with aiding an

insurrection in an effort to overturn the government. so donald from once that equivalent, but even members of the, as you said, republicans in the senate all think that that is ridiculous. and in the end, politically, it could only backfire. >> joe, the last time republicans tried impeaching a democrat president without broad support for the right people, it backfired dramatically. and of course, i am talking about new gingrich's move to impeach bill clinton, and how severely he and the house republicans were punished electorally for it in 1998. could the same thing play out here? >> oh absolutely. and look, or publicans, are going to lose the house because they are doing this. but, we knew this when republicans took control of the house. they told us, before they won in 2022, they told us these two years we're all going to be about retribution, revenge, for how they believe donald trump

was treated. and they were going to investigate biden, and everybody who works for biden. i will quibble with this amen. i don't think it's just a small, marjorie taylor greene and crazy small caucus. look, we've got to wrap our arms around the fact that the vast majority of republican primary voters still don't believe biden won. the vast majority of republican voters want joe biden impeached. the republican party base, amen, is radicalized, in this house conference and it's reflecting. that. >> yeah, that's a very important point. and i'm glad that you bring it up to give us the context of where the republican party is in this moment of time.

so i guess picking up on that, malcolm, what do you make of folks like marjorie taylor greene saying that she will only vote to prevent a government shutdown, if the house opens an impeachment inquiry meeting. basically, she is taking the u.s. government hostage, to get her way. >> you know aymen, present company not included, i think this could be a -- moment for the american media. are we going to treat this jack off jamboree like it has this -- or are we going to treat it like the side show that it is. i mean, think about what's happening in pennsylvania, and across the country right now. and what this administration has done. you have this house leadership, who has made it clear, they want to reverse the ability for governments to negotiate and bring down the cost of prescription drugs. they want to do everything in their power to not give students desperately from student loans. and when you look at marjorie taylor greene and others, who are pushing for this, frankly they are very clear, the only high crime they think joe biden committed was winning the 2020

election. and, this lack of focus on the real world concerns of everyday american people, i will tell you, it's why people hate politics. and i will agree with the former congressman, it is there for going to -- and joe biden is going to be reelected. this is nonsense. now i think a large swath of the american people do see it. >> kimberly, i have no sympathy for kevin mccarthy. this is his bed, he made it. but i can imagine that he is quite frustrated right now, because he empowered all of the far-right characters, who are now demanding this impeachment inquiry, who convinced the base that it is necessary. who knows it is not going anywhere in the senate. and yet, he has to deal with it. >> he does. i mean, i think that this reflects how fractured, even within this republican -controlled house, his support

is. just getting the gavel, required him to make that, really horrible deal that he made, that basically any time that anyone in his caucus is unhappy, they can threaten to take that gavel away. but that was the only way he could get the power, and he was still caught between trying to keep absolutely anything done, -- to feeling the pressure not just from the more radicalized part of his caucus, but also donald trump. and, he made this bed, and now he is lying in it. >> joe, give me your thoughts on where kevin mccarthy finds himself. i know you have no sympathy for him, but this is something, you and i talked about this i think, back in january, when he was going through his 21 different rounds of being voted in. and we were, like he is going to find himself, at some point in this term, with his back up against the wall, held hostage by these far right, marjorie taylor greene,'s and the acolytes in congress. but, what do you think his options are at this moment?

>> yeah aymen, no tears for mccarthy. he got screwed, but he screwed himself. here's what mccarthy is going to do. i think the play here, i think is his only play here is to convince most of his conference that we cannot shut the government down. and to do that, he will get a promise from his conference, to proceed with an impeachment inquiry. that's a bad road, that's a whole -- thing to do. but at the end of the day, he's going to give the republicans that bone to keep the government funded. >> malcolm, what are the chances of the government shuts down, come the end of the month? we >> you know, we are going to find out. they are too high for comfort, we knew that kevin mccarthy had no courage, now we are funny and that he doesn't have a brain, and he doesn't have a heart. because a shutdown would hurt

the american people, in ways that, i don't think we are talking about enough. he is treating this with the lack of seriousness to be the speaker of the house. and i say all the time, you don't have to be in house leadership, just because you are a member of congress. if you can't go to your caucus and say, this is a bad idea. and as your leader, we are not going to do it. then you don't have the right to lead. if you can't be honest with your caucus, or with the american people. >> no courage, no heart, no brain. i think kevin mccarthy is the new campaign slogan for the mccarthy campaign, in 2024 [laughter] . joe walsh, malcolm -- kimberly atkins, it's always a real pleasure to hear from you, thank you so much. we want to switch gears now and get a quick update on that deadly earthquake in morocco. nbc's raf sanchez is there with an update. raf. >> for the race to find survivors across the disaster zone, here in morocco, is growing more desperate by the hour. we saw those efforts of close earlier, in the village of -- . it was about 30 miles east of the earthquake epicenter. and we saw devastation there.

the narrow alleys of what was once the villages market are now filled with rubble and debris. this was a community of 3000 people. the locals told us that 40 members of the village had been killed in the earthquake. that's more than 1% of the overall community. among them was the wife, three children, and the baby son of a man we met called -- . he told us that he doesn't know what he is living for anymore. he does not know how he is going to continue his life with that scale of loss. and they are just part of a national death toll, that is now above 2100 people. but despite all the heartbreak in this country, the rescue efforts continue. we saw professional rescue teams, from turkey to italy, working alongside local volunteers, people who just hands by patient hands, we're trying to dig their neighbors

out from underneath the rubble. in that community, there was one rescue earlier, which is giving people hope that there may be more survivors still to be found. the rescue experts will tell you, the first 72 hours after a disaster are absolutely critical. and so, it may be that the coming day is really the last, best chance for finding people alive. back to you. >> our thanks to raf sanchez in morocco for that update. a group of colorado voters filed a lawsuit to try to keep trump off of the 2024 ballot. crew president noah bookbinder is helping him do that. he is going to join me live, coming up. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today?

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- to feel like myself again. - and now i know anything is possible. (gentle music) >> the most commanding lead -- as voters around the country are worried that a former president facing four criminal indictments could actually find his way back to the white house. but the real question may be, whether or not he can even find his way back on to the ballot. on wednesday, six colorado voters filed a lawsuit, seeking to keep trump off of the state's 2024 pallets. under section three of the 14th amendment, which says anyone who engaged in insurrection, or rebellion, against the constitution, after taking an oath to defendant, is ineligible to hold office. this suit will put to the test some of the more originalist legal theories, by a pair of conservative law professors who

are active in the federalist society. they concluded last month that trump is not eligible to run, under section three. but that is not to say that this is a totally novel legal strategy. while it hasn't been tested off in the last 150 years, due to a lack, i guess, of american insurrectionists seeking office, last year, citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, or crew as it is known, represented residents of new mexico who sued to remove county commissioner griffin, chloe griffin from office. the only successful case to be brought under the section three, since 1869. crew also helped bring the colorado lawsuit in its present -- and joins me now. noah, it's great to have you with us on the show. i think this conversations we had in different circles around the country. everyone is fascinating by it, and is to see it -- . there are several different reputations out there currently, on how the 14th amendment can be applied. walk us through how in this specific lawsuit would work, in a practical sense, if you can.

paint a picture, of how you would want it to play out. >> sure. well, colorado law specifically says that secretary of state of colorado is required to move from the ballot, anyone who is not qualified to hold office. and, that citizens can go to court to enforce that, to demand that somebody be removed [interpreter] from the ballot, if they are not qualified. and actually -- so. what we hope will happen, and expect will happen, is that in rapid order, the law actually says that there should be an evidentiary hearing within five dates of the suit being brought. that's not exactly going to happen, since there's already an effort by donald trump to move it up to federal court, which he's already walked back, one's our legal team pointed out that there is no legal basis for that. and, it is going to take a little bit longer, because it is such a, --

but we expect very soon, to be able to go in court, present witnesses, present evidence, and have the court to get a serious look about whether the evidence, in fact, supports finding donald trump disqualified under the 14th amendment to the constitution. and we believe that the -- is so strong, that it is very likely that a court will conclude that, and it will order him removed from the ballot. >> you bring up an interesting point, and i want to kind of focus in on the language here for a moment. you may have caught congressman jamie raskin on this program last night. he pointed out that applying the 14th amendment, you do not even have to be convicted of it. citing an insurrection, you just need to have engaged in one. and congress already proof that, in trump's second impeachment trial. now, trump is calling this lawsuit, election interference.

and, as you mentioned, he is trying to get it moved to a federal court. but, do you believe that you do not actually have to be convicted of participating in an insurrection, you just have to have engaged in one. and the evidence, currently, is overwhelmingly in support of that. >> i think the law is very clear on that. and if you look at the people who have been removed under section three of the 14th amendment. that is as you mentioned, coy griffin in new mexico last year. but also, a number of former confederates were removed in the 1860s. that is the context in which the tradition was originally enacted. not one of them was charged with, or convicted, of insurrection. mr. griffin was convicted of essentially a misdemeanor trespassing offense. and really, this is, this doesn't aim for criminal punishment. what this is a qualification. just like saying, you have to be 35 to be president, and a

natural born citizen. so you go to court, and you prove it in a civil court by a preponderance of the evidence. and, we are confident that the evidence that the house january 6th select committee obtained, the evidence, as you mention from the impeachment, and a whole lot of additional evidence that has come since then, gets you a, way past that standard needing to prove in order to enforce this provision. >> what would you say to those, to the critics who might be, saying this is, as donald trump said, political interference. that democrats are afraid of donald trump at the ballot, and this is the only way that they are going to win in 2024, is by keeping donald trump off the ballot, with these types of legal tactics. >> i guess what i would say is, you know, the constitution is not optional. these are the rules that our forefathers put into place, to

protect this democracy. where they are applied, you have to enforce them. and, the notion that the only way to keep donald trump out of the presidency is to beat him in an election, i find that problematic, because the american people already did that. the american people had the opportunity to decide whether they wanted don trump to be president in 2020. they voted against him, he ignored that, and attempted to overturn that election, including inciting a violent insurrection. the idea that somehow, we are going to do the same thing again, and get a different result, it's like the old adage about the definition of insanity. which is, do the same thing, expecting a different result. >> this will mostly play out in courts, in severance. what do you say to those who say, even if you are successful on the state level, the conservative super majority on the supreme court, three of the justices appointed by trump. they like to pretend to be a regionalists, but they rarely

are in practice. they will never let donald trump be removed from the ballot. and so, this exercise will serve no purpose but to excite and mobilize trump's base. >> you know, i think that obviously, this is a deeply conservative court. but i think what we've seen, over the past couple of years is that this court, first of all, has not seem to have a whole lot of interest in associating itself with what happened after the 2020 election, and on january 6th. they have not taken up any of the january six criminal cases that have been brought up that way. and actually, when this court has been pretty strong, when cases have come to it about donald trump's abuses of power, and the need for oversight over him. a number of cases came to the court about congressional authority to perform oversight over donald trump. and those cases, the court must pretty strong that he is not above the law. that, they weren't going to stand with his abuses. so i'm hopeful that, even if it does get to that point,

particularly given what we've heard from originalist scholars, it will at least get a fair hearing from this. court. >> noah bookbinder, thank you so much. this is going to be a case that is when we watch very closely, at every twist and turn. and we certainly look forward to having you back on the program to continue that. conversation greatly pre-show time. sir. >> thank you so much for having me. >> and next, the a. g. twenties notable absences, and biden's attempt to fill the power void.

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president biden, who left center -- trying to collect leaders away from china's leadership's. that's -- walking a fine line when it came to foreign policy, especially regarding ukraine. there was an approach seemingly taken by many leaders of the summit, because a painstakingly go sheeted declaration omitted any condemnation of russia's invasion of ukraine, or its brutal conduct of the war. instead, lamenting the suffering of the ukrainian people. this was the first time xi has stepped out since he took power in 2012. as the atlantic's michael shoe and put it, xi absence sends a dark signal, that it is done with the established world order. join me now to discuss is richard spangle, former secretary of state during the obama administration. he is also an msnbc political analyst. it's -- great to see you get, thanks for making time with us. so, let's talk about china here, and this absence. how significant is this, and what does it signal to you? and what should it signal to the u.s.?

>> you know ayman, as biden has said for a long time, we are inflection point in the world, between democracy and autocracy. he purposely didn't say that at this summit. and, so that's the challenge that we are facing. xi jinping it's setting up a kind of rival world order, by not going to the g20. he is dismissing all those nations, he is dissing mr. modi. and he is saying that i don't give that credence and credibility. look, over the last ten years, the chinese have spent eight trillion dollars creating the belt and road initiative, with more than 100 countries around the world. they have set up the asian infrastructure bank, which has dozens of dozens of countries. the brics nations, which is brazil, india, china, they are adding more nations. he is trying to set up a rival scenario to these postwar institutions, that have kept piece for 80 years.

>> so, i guess, one of the notable things that was absent as well from this was the watered down declaration on ukraine. not just about the lack of consensus on the war, but also about india's growing influence. the fact that we couldn't get a condemnation of russia's invasion, because india is not necessarily as supportive of our efforts, in defending ukraine, the way that we would like them to be. what do you see as the primary takeaways from this year's g20 summit, on this particular issue with ukraine? and what does that signal? >> so ayman quick, i've been in those rooms, were you trying to get a memorandum out, with a bunch of countries. and, it's not a consensus. everybody has to agree with, that your memorandum is a strong or as weak as the most frightened member, or the most bold member. so, i think the war has been going on for a while, the g20

statement last year was incredibly strong. what's amazing is how strong it was. and i think biden went this time as a diplomat. he understands how this works, it's not his first rodeo. xi jinping we didn't show, a putin didn't show up. the fact that he was there. as they say, 90% of life is showing up, did a lot of heavy lifting. and so, yes, is it a little disappointed that there wasn't more direct criticism, yes. but i think he kind of got what he wanted. >> and speaking of russia, kim jin is reportedly planning to travel to russia this month to, i assume discussed potentially personal supplying flattering putin with more weapons for his war in ukraine and. what do you think of that development, how does that necessarily, or does it at, all change how a we engage in ukraine, and be how we engage with north korea? >> well when ayman it's

basically two pariahs getting together. i mean, part of the reason putin didn't go is that the international criminal court has a warrant for his arrest. you know, north korea is a mafia state, like russia's. it's a failed state. and the fact that the two of them are getting together, it's not something that, i don't know, i'm not happy about it but, it isn't cause for existential concern. i mean, they are embracing each other because no one else will embrace either of them. so, plus, putin is running out of ammunition, he is running out of supplies. the flap the fact that he needs north korean artillery shells is not a good sign. in how they're connecting the war. so, i think it will be much ado about nothing. >> all right rick stengel. it's always a pleasure, thank you for making time for us. >> absolutely. >> next, governor abbott's fight to keep his controversial buoys in the rio grande, stay with us.

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the rio grande, at least for now. the fifth circuit court granted texas governor greg greg abbott a technical victory and fought -- in just a day earlier, that mandated the barriers be removed by this coming friday. abbott said in a statement thursday that he is prepared to take this case all the way to the supreme court, if needed. the buoys were installed back in july, as part of abbott's brother migrant deterrence efforts, alston as operation

lone star. the justice department then sued the state of texas, alleging the buoys violated federal law, and were installed without government officers permission. mexican officials said the barrier violates their country sovereignty. but let's put aside the legal and political implications here for a moment, because real people, migrants, who are risking it all, risking their lives for a better life, they are the ones suffering the consequences. two bodies were found in the rio grande last month, one was found entangled in the buoys, and the other was found about three miles upriver, identified as a 20-year-old honduras man. now, these tragedies are far too common, as w. -- nathan points out during the intercept. during the last few years, more people have died trying to cross the border than at any other time in reported u.s. immigration enforcement history. join me now to discuss this is -- president and ceo of the lutheran immigration and refugee service. she also served as a former policy director for michelle

obama. it's great to have you back on the show. you've called abbott's move to build this thousand foot string of buoys, political grandstanding. because, in fact, it's only a very small portion of the 1200 mile long border with mexico. and now that we know the barrier will stay in place for the time being, what do you think the long term ramifications are here. >> as you know, it's deeply problematic, when you think about the fact that this buoy barrier is only 0. 01% of texas border. and that is why, as you said, i do think that this is just political grandstanding, rather than a substantive policy initiative. but i think it's important to understand that this is only one piece of governor abbott's lone star initiative, that has caused texas taxpayers four billion dollars. and in fact, the texas legislature has now approved an additional six billion dollars to undertake these inhumane efforts. it's not just dead bodies, that have shown up in the rio grande

as a result of these problematic policies. it's a four-year-old who, after being turned back by texas authorities, ended up passing out of exhaustion, as a result of the heat, and no ability to get to water. so, these are the inhumane conditions that governor abbott is creating. and i think rightfully, the department of justice appealed, and got a decision in court saying, this violated federal law, it was ineffective, and it's really a problematic strategy. >> you know, if you look at the timing of when this happened, the buoys were installed in july. i guess right after title 42 was lifted in may. how much do you think this factored into the governor's decision to build this barrier, and what does it say about the need for comprehensive and humane immigration reform in this country?

because it doesn't seem that there is any movement on the comprehensive reform side. >> sadly, no. there isn't any real movement. and it's not just comprehensive immigration reform. we are not see any real steps on immigration reform, period. and that includes even things like economic -- at a time when inflation is obviously a massive problem with the economy. it is in part, because of a lack of immigration. so governor abbott's move in, terms of implementing the buoys, wasn't his only step. as i mentioned, he was busing migrants to new york city and other locations as well. so i do think that it may have accelerated his actions, but i also think that you are seeing governors who are trying to one up one another, in implementing strategies to show how inhumane and draconian and they can be. and that is the dynamic we are seeing, between texas and florida. instead of implementing real measures that are both the right thing to do for the country, but the smart thing to do for the country, there has been -- we need immigration.

>> let's talk about the rhetoric here. the justice department has pushed back on the language that greg abbott has used, including the word invasion, which i guess he is using to try to justify his actions on the border, with the creation of this barrier. you have said that this kind of rhetoric actually gets people killed. expand on that for us, who is abbott signaling to, when he uses words like invasion, to describe migrants coming across the border? >> it's the audience that, in extreme situations, will actually take up arms, in order to act against what they believe is immigrants coming into the country, in an absolutely chaotic and unmanaged way. the reality is that we have rigid policies at the southern border, even after title 42, we have a policy called title eight, that controls who can

come in and out of the country. and so, what it does, along with words like white replacement theory, is it galvanizes and mobilizes people to act on their hatred. and that costs lives. >> it's not only the long stretch of buoys, but the texas law enforcement officials themselves. there was some report earlier this summer by the new york times describing how officials have denied migrants water. they shouted at them to return to mexico. when you have this level of cruelty with the example being set by the governor himself, is it even possible to hold these officials accountable? when what does that accountability look like, besides for greg abbott, at the ballot box, when his turn is up? >> well, when a governor, when a governor is putting in place these policies, there has to be a rule of law that still governs our country, every single piece of it. and so i think it's important to understand, there was a department of public safety, texas employee, who is a

whistleblower, who highlighted the inhumane policies, and the humanitarian implications they were having. so i think this is where, whether it is the department of justice challenging the buoys, or other measures, it's got to, we have rules, and we have conditions that are in permissible, in terms of what actions you can take against women, children, individuals. but we also saw, and saw by the texas officials, was essentially a de facto separation policy, where texas authorities would arrest males, and then remove them from their families, and have the women and children go into other facilities. and i think that this has to end. we saw in 2018, we saw it today. and i do think just as we saw in 2018, the american public will stand up in outrage. because these are not, these are not american policies. they are un-american, and they are evil. >> you say the american public will stand up, and i totally get the totality of the country may be sympathetic to migrants coming into this country. but there was a poll that was published by the university of texas on friday, that found

there is a slim majority folks who actually support abbott's use of the booths, and barbwire, to deter migrants. i think 52%, there it is on the screen, supported it. i'm curious to get your thoughts on what does it say about the broader narrative about migrants in this country? how do we change the feelings of fear and animosity towards them? and, even in cities like you new york, where there is a long history of welcoming migrants, you are now seeing officials like the mayor of new york city, warren of the disaster that new york is facing, as a result of this influx of migrants. >> so when you work in immigration, you find that every day you are fighting fiction over fact. i think part of why you're seeing those poll results is because some americans are turning into news outlets, and all they are hearing is that immigrants are coming to the u.

s., that they are crime perpetrating asylums, who are coming here to rape and pillage. they are hearing that fentanyl, and the opioid epidemic are spread as a result of migrant mules. and the truth is nothing could be further from those suggestions. and so i think that's where we have to be vocal, about who they are. they are people who are fleeing the most dire circumstances, they are children, their families. they are coming because america has a beacon of hope. and i think making that case, instead of just radio silence from one side, is what we have to do. because right now, you see one side that's trying to make this a wedge issue. it is politicizing it. and the other side, in terms of our political leaders, are staying silent. and that is not a winning strategy. >> all right, -- thank you so much for your time, and we appreciate your insights on this, very important

conversation, we'll continue have here. coming up. coming up, a dangerous precedent with new r. i. c. o. charges in georgia, but these ones don't involve trump and his crew. this time, it is the protesters, we will explain that. [ horns honking ] ♪ california love ♪ ♪ now let me welcome everybody to the wild wild west ♪ ♪ a state that's untouchable like eliot ness ♪ ♪ say what you say, but give me that bomb beat from dre ♪ ♪ let me serenade the streets of l.a. ♪ ♪ from oakland to sac-town ♪ ♪ the bay area and back down ♪ ♪ cali is where they put their mack down, give me love! ♪ ♪ shake, shake it, baby ♪ ♪ shake it, cali ♪ ♪ oooooooooooh ♪

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his alleged coup coconspirators. on tuesday, the states republican attorney general, chris car, indicted 61 people, under georgia's racketeering influencing corrupt organizations act. the charges follow a long running investigation into protest against a planned atlanta area police and fire fight, fire fighter training facility, which critics have now dubbed as cop city. in a 109-page indictment, prosecutors accused the defendants, who they described as, quote, militant anarchists, of taking part in a sprawling criminal enterprise, in which they say the protest committed acts of arson, domestic terrorism, and money laundering. most of those indicted have already been charged in their alleged indictment in the movement. but the introduction of rico, brings this case to a whole new level. racketeering charges carry a heavy potential sentence, which can be added on top of any

penalties issued for the underlying acts. as we wait for the next steps to play out in court, activists and civil rights groups in georgia and around the country are already sounding alarm bells. they are warning that this indictment could set a dangerous precedent for protesters, in the future of their movements, nationwide. first off, the indictment oddly begins with a detailed definition of anarchism, as an ideology. that philosophical background is then used to allege that common protest actions such as mutual aid, and solidarity, are somehow linked to violent tactics used by some members of the movement. laura foster, an attorney who represents several of the defendants in the r. i. c. o. indictment, warned that this kind of logic could be used to criminalize, quote, nearly any organization effort against unjust public policy. the indictment also tries to build a link between the various funding networks connected to the movement, including bail funds and the violent tactics of some individuals involved in the effort. for decades, bail funds have been able to part of social

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