back up have allowed that issue to come back into the conversation, and i imagine, not just ron desantis, but a lot of the other contenders are going to try to remind people it was under donald trump that some of the most restrictive measures were put in place. whether it'll be enough, i doubt it, but at least it is something they can work off of. >> hard to imagine that largely common sense safety measures are a political flash point among republicans, but that's where we are. former aide to house speakers ryan and boehner, great stuff from branden buck. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, september 11th. that is a live look at ground zero as we commemorate the september 11th attacks on this country 22 yeas later. we'll show you this morning's live events from new york to

arlington to pennsylvania, and speak with homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas and the general of the bureau on what has changed. also this morning, president biden is heading back from his overseas trip. we'll discuss the key takeaways from the g20 summit. plus, mark meadows loses his fight to move his georgia elections case to federal court. what this now means for the other co-defendants, including trump, who want to make the same move. this as we're learning more about how a special grand jury in georgia had also recommended charging dozens more, including senator lindsey graham. we'll show you how the south carolina republican is responding and get analysis on that expanded list. those people weren't indicted. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house

bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. and "poitics nation's" reverend al is with us. >> there's a lot to get to. last night, yesterday, a lot of people looking at the u.s. open. the day before, coco gauff. >> coco gauff, that was incredible. my daughter and i watched together, and we were just at the edge of our seat. she looked like she was down for the count. she looked tired in the first and second, and then the third set, my god. >> came roaring back in the second set, third set. >> strong as ever. >> yeah. really, really inspirational. richard haass, you're our golf expert. why don't you talk about tennis.

same sport, right? >> yeah, almost. the ball moves a little differently. look, she was fantastic. incredible. the first set, she almost didn't play, as you said. the points were decided on her opponent's, you know, unforced errors and so forth. second set was a transition. third set was dominant. yesterday, the men's final, to watch djokovic. again, the second set was unbelievable. it was a marathon set. >> it was. >> just fantastic tennis. but, again, 24 grand slams. you had the statement by the existing greatest player, some might say, of all time, and she's the rising star. i thought it was a fantastic weekend of tennis. i want to thank you for not raising football, joe. >> there we go. >> i will not raise football. it has to hurt for you so badly. yeah, jonathan lemire, i mean, again, you had the rise of the new, then the celebration for

who may be the greatest of all time. 24 titles. djokovic pushed to the wall in an extraordinary second set tie-breaker. you could really tell after he got through that, that he was heading for his 24th title. >> amazing. >> djokovic certainly nowhere near as beloved as federer or nadal, his contemporaries, but he's just relentless. that is his defining characteristic. he doesn't stop. he keeps coming, keeps coming. he makes you beat yourself. once he survived the second set and his opponent threw all he could at him, the third set was a coronation. the stats will speak for themselves. djokovic, still 36, certainly has a few years left. he is going to put away the record for career grand slams for men, probably something no one will be able to reach for some time. but let's be clear, the story of the weekend is coco gauff. she is the star of new york city. >> yes. >> she was extraordinary. she lit up this tournament. she had a scare in the first match where she fell behind and had to rally in the third set.

i saw her in the round of 16. i was there at the u.s. open when she beat a terrific opponent in three sets. this was a moment saturday night there in new york. there's wonderful video going around that she had attended the u.s. open as a child, as a fan. they show her dancing in the crowd. here a decade later or so, she wins her first grand slam. surely not her last. >> mika, what i thought was so beautiful about it is, again, a new champion is crowned. it's so exciting. at a tournament where, really, the spirit of billie jean king just permeated the whole tournament. >> absolutely. >> made it so joyful. i know billie jean was cheering for her every step of the way. >> when she got handed the prize money, she said, "thank you, billie jean, for making this possible." >> unbelievable. >> such an incredible moment. so many incredible moments. coco gauff, katty kay, she's a new generation of young women

who speak for themselves. if you watch her interactions with her coaches, her male coaches even, she pushes back and tells them to back off when she knows what she's -- that she's got it. there were just so many incredible moments on that court. but i loved when she thanked the people who didn't believe in her at the end, when she got her trophy. it was awesome. >> i love that. she took on the haters, and she did it with such class. >> yes. >> she made a point of doing it, right? she went for the microphone and said, "i have one more thing i need to say." she's had, of course, so many detractors and critics, as everybody that's in the public eye. particularly, a young, black woman who you have had a ton of them, and she took them on and did it with this win. not only did she take them on in words, she took them on when she won that tournament. you know, i felt this is the new generation. we talk about this in politics at the moment a lot, about the old guard and the new guard.

carlos alcaraz, who didn't make it into the finals but is clearly is the next generation of men's tennis, as well, and we're going to be seeing a lot more of him. between coco gauff and carlos alcaraz, he is 19, as well, we have right there, coco gauff and carlos, and they're going to be the next generation of tennis players. it is exciting to see. even djokovic at wimbledon acknowledged that, that this is the moment when we're passing the baton on to the next generation. >> they are young. >> i think the other is 20. coco is so graceful. yes, she pushed back against the haters, but she was graceful throughout the entire process. >> even then. >> so grateful to her parents, to her family, to her coaches, to the people of new york. it was just beautiful, absolutely beautiful. before we go on, i just got to say, we can't let this go because, again, it's -- >> what? >> well, jonathan lemire, we're not going to bring richard in.

last night was just ugly. quite a remarkable opening weekend for the nfl. we'll get through it all. i mean, the browns just absolutely dominating the bengals right up there. boy, last night, the giants just got absolutely pounded. >> yeah. this is a year the giants come into it with a lot of expectations. the playoffs last year, picked to go far this year. this was over and over fast. it was ugly. the final score was 40-0. we just saw right there a field goal blocked, running back for a touchdown. a pick six followed. this was never a game. the cowboys smoked the giants there at home. tonight, of course, monday night football, also here in new york, aaron rodgers makes his debut with the jets. you're right, fun to have football back. state statements made by the 49ers. the browns thunked the bengals. joe burrow is not 100%.

eagles had a game. yeah, even the atlanta falcons. yes, the atlanta falcons, joe scarborough, 1-0. >> that's right. jack scarborough and i were there. >> can't believe it. >> saw the falcons. he really wanted to get up to atlanta and wanted to see the debut. >> it was a late night. >> bryce young did fairly well. whether you're talking about mac jones or bryce young or my alabama crimson tide, not a great week. but tua, incredible week. i guess the first 30 minutes of our show is probably enough for sports, right? >> yeah. actually, football intersected with politics over the weekend. >> did it? here is our segue. a college football rivalry was injected with even more bitterness over the weekend when the two frontrunners for the 2024 republican presidential nomination both showed up at the game. on saturday, both former president donald trump and

florida governor ron desantis attended the contest between iowa and iowa state. trump sat in a private suite and was greeted with cheers but also, notably, some boos and insulting gestures. at one point, he waved to the crowd. >> they waved back, but not the way he would have wanted them to wave back. >> we won't -- >> don't show that. >> -- go into detail. >> no. >> desantis, meanwhile, sat in the stands with iowa's republican governor kim reynolds, who he said would consider for vice president if he wins the nomination. both candidates also tried to win over iowans outside the stadium. tailgating with fans before the game. there you go. donald trump took to truth social to voice his frustration. >> he was angry. >> not about the -- >> angry old man. >> yeah, no. it was about a recent poll that asked voters about what he called his age and mentality. the former president wrote, in a

phony and probably rigged "wall street journal" poll, coming out of nowhere to softened the mental incompetence blow that is so obvious with crooked joe biden, they ask about my age and mentality. where did that come from? >> well -- >> a few years ago -- >> we could play you about an hour worth of clips to show you. >> we do no have enough time. >> you trying to walk down the stage at west point. >> i continue. a few years ago, i was the only one to agree to a mental acuity test. >> dude, you said "horse, cow, woman, pig, camera," or something. >> and aced it. >> the fact you call that acing it shows just how wobbly things must be for you. >> then he added, now that the globalists at fox and "the wall street journal" have failed to push their third tier candidate to success, they do this. well, i hereby challenge rupert

murdoch and sons, biden, "wall street journal" heads to acuity tests. >> that would not work out well for donald trump on so many levels. rev, i'm so glad, so glad that alex put this here. >> angry. >> two things. first of all, i want you to talk about how unmoored donald trump is, continues to be, and now calling rupert murdoch and fox news globalists. secondly, i went to all these lengths last night. joe biden, crazy as hell. joe biden is sleepily. joe this, joe that. vietnam. you know, i figured he was going to be tired in vietnam. that's not a shock. i said before he left, india, vietnam, i'm not so sure. i looked at it, and, you know, at this point, they're just making s up. they're making stuff up.

you know, he's tired. then he goes, i'm going to bed. again, it's like, now, no matt matter what the guy does, they'll scream, saying he's out of it, even if he's not. then you have donald trump howling at the moon saying crazy stuff every day. it's like, i don't know. i talk to a lot of people, over the past week or so, they're not thrilled about either side, but it's not like they're going, biden is crazy and trump is all there. it is the opposite. >> exactly the opposite. the advantage that trump has is when you start off a little strange, it's harder to gauge that you've gotten stranger. i mean, we look at biden, who has started off normal and start saying, is he acting off? trump started off, so it is harder for people to catch up with how off he's really gotten.

because he was never really that stable and centered in the first place, as we would judge being stable and centered. then for him now to just pick fights with people that really helped to create his candidacy in '16. "wall street journal," fox news. i mean, it's like a child, which also gives you concerns about, is he losing his balance even more than he already was off balance? obviously, like a child, anybody that says anything, it's just inciting him to start playing childish games and he goes off. i think that we have concern. if i were in the republican party, i'd be concerned about donald trump. not because of his age but because of where his mind has always been. it's all about him, only about him. >> yeah. >> he can't help himself. >> you know, really quickly, we want to get -- we have chuck rosenberg here.

we want to get to chuck and talk about a lot of things happening in the court cases. first, jonathan lemire, the fact we're all talking about next year, 2024, and, you know, a lot of hand wringing, as james carville said, a lot of bedwetting on his plastic bed sheets. >> okay. >> but you have a republican party that really is, it's split. it's splintered. yes, 50% of republicans support donald trump. great. that's 50% that don't. then you've got this war with fox news. i mean, you know, i talked to somebody this weekend. again, a supporter of trump. we were talking, and i said, you know -- they let me know, they watch newsmax. that's where they get their news. but there's these splinters and divisions. we have a guy who wants to be the republican nominee, who is trashing fox news every day. again, fox news, they'll get by. you know, other people will get by. i'm just saying, when you have a

republican party that is that splintered, donald trump dividing it right down the middle, it doesn't bode well for next year. i don't care what everybody says. >> trump is making the bet that he is bigger than fox, that he doesn't need fox. that is a risky bet to make. we know what power they have wielded for such a long time. it is true, they were supportive, eventually, of trump in 2016. they were all in on 2020. they've kind of gone back and forth here. like, he has -- they certainly seem to be flirting with the candidacy of ron desantis for a while, as that has stalled, coverage says it's warmed up to trump again for the most part, but it is not good enough for trump. trump wants a kim jong-un chorus, nothing but support. if there is a slightly dissenting voice, the occasional anchor in fox news, if they're not giving lavish praise at all times, it's not good enough. he goes scorched earth against

them. to your point, that's dangerous a little bit here. he is far ahead in the primaries. even a fraction of the republican party seems, at this moment, on track to renominate him. as we go into next year, he can't afford to lose any support. we know how close next year's election is going to be. we talk often about how president biden can't afford to lose these small margins, whether because of voters of color or those attracted to a third-party candidate. that applies to trump, too. he doesn't have a margin of error either. he needs every vote he can. if he is turning off republicans, if he doesn't get the full-throated endorsement of fox news next time around, that could come back and hurt him. we're going to turn now to fulton county, georgia, where mark meadows lost his bid to move the case against him to federal court. >> that's not good for any of them, trump or anybody. >> the judge ruled on friday that meadows' alleged involvement in efforts to pressure state officials to overturn the 2020 election results was not part of his

official duties as white house chief of staff. according to a court filing, the judge found the actions, quote, at the heart of the state's charges against meadows were taken on behalf of the trump campaign with the ultimate goal of affecting state election activities and procedures. meadows has already notified to the court that he plans to appeal. >> you'll lose. i mean, this is obvious. he'll lose all the way up. >> in his ruling, the judge did say the decision does not have any effect on the outcome of other co-defendants seeking to move their cases to federal court. last week, authorities for former president trump said he might seek to move the case to federal court, as well. >> right. >> but, with trump, anything to delay the process. >> again, this is far from presidential duties, what they're doing here in georgia. it's just the opposite, which is why the case is being brought, the charges are being brought

against everybody. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and senior official chuck rosenberg. give us your take on the decision by the judge and how it may impact the other defendants. >> yeah, i've read judge jones' decision, joe. i thought it was thoughtful and thorough. i think it is probably impervious on appeal. though that may turn, in some part, on the panel you draw in the 11th circuit court of appeals. but, as a matter of fact and matter of law, to your point, mark meadows was acting outside of the scope of his official duties as the white house chief of staff. that means when he seeks to remove his case to federal court, he loses. so, you know, i never thought it was a frivolous attempt by mr. meadows to remove the case. he has lots of reasons why he would want to do so. but i didn't think it was going to prevail. it didn't. i think judge jones was right to say that, i'll listen to anyone

who wants to make a similar motion and i'll judge each case on its merits. but i think, by and large, it is going to be hard for other state defendants to get their cases removed to federal court because of the way jones reasoned. again, it was thorough and thoughtful, and it bodes poorly for other people who are going to make a similar claim. >> chuck, you seem to be suggesting then it's going to be difficult for donald trump. i know there are a bunch of others. two of the defendants were also trying to do the same thing. it'd make it difficult for donald trump to have his case moved to federal court, which would have multiple advantages for him in terms of the jury pool and his potential to pardon himself later on. can you answer that? also, whether we'll get some sense this week in hearings about the tiing of the georgia case? >> sure, katty. lots of good questions there. number one, it is a little different for mr. trump because by definition, the president and

vice president are not covered by the hatch act, the federal provision that includes activity by people on the federal government payroll. the factual posture of his case is going to be a little bit different. i think what he tried to do was outside of his scope of duties as a federal official, and i think he loses. by the way, two things, one about the jury pool and one about pardons. the jury pool in the northern district of georgia, atlanta division, the federal division, not all that different than the jury pool in fulton county. a little more red, a little more diverse, but it is not all that different. i wouldn't make too much of it because i think juries, in my experience, can be selected by a good judge to be fair and thoughtful and to follow the facts and apply the laws. that's one thing. second thing, even if mr. trump gets this case into federal court, it remains a state case. i know that sounds weird. it simply would be a state case

tried in federal court. were he convicted and if he were re-elected as president -- right now, two big ifs -- he could not pardon himself because it's still, at its roots, a state charge and a state conviction. so lots of things to play out. still early innings here, katty, but i do think judge jones' opinion does not bode well for other people seeking to remove their cases to federal court. >> yeah. there's a lot more to this story to cover this morning, including a lindsey graham connection to the fulton county case. we're going to get to that, chuck, if you could stay with us. we'll need you for that. also still ahead on "morning joe," it is a desperate race to find survivors after a devastating earthquake damaged homes and buildings across morocco, leaving thousands dead. we'll have the very latest on the ongoing rescue operations. plus, a top gop lawmaker criticizes senator tommy

tuberville's ongoing military blockade. we'll show you the remarks and talk about whether other republicans will finally speak out. also ahead, new developments in the search for an escaped inmate in pennsylvania. police say he's been spotted, and what he may look like now. and in our fourth hour of "morning joe," walter isaacson joins us with his latest biography on elon musk. one of the most influential and controversial figures in the world today. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. my heart failure diagnosis changed my priorities. i want time for the people i love. my heart doesn't pump enough blood... so my doctor gave me farxiga. ♪ farxiga ♪

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sun is yet to come up over washington. so the report from the special grand jury that investigated the 2020 election interference case in fulton county reveals charges were recommended for almost two dozen additional people, including south carolina senator lindsey graham. graham, along with former georgia senators david perdue, kelly leffler, and trump national security adviser michael flynn, were among those who the special grand jury recommended for indictment but was never charged. graham was investigated by fani willis over two phone calls he made to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and his staff after the 2020 election. raffensperger claims graham suggested his office had the power to reject certain absentee ballots. but graham insists that he was only trying to understand the process for verifying ballot signatures in georgia.

>> what i did was consistent with my job as being united states senator, asking questions about the mail-in voting process. i never asked him to set aside ballots or anything else. after the conversation, i decided it was best for me to vote to certify the election. if it ever becomes impossible or politically dangerous or legally dangerous for a united states senator to call up people to find out how the election was run, god help us all. the next election, if you have questions, i'll do the same thing. >> god help us all if we have united states senators like lindsey graham who feel free to call up -- in the words of trump-supporting republican secretary of state brad raffensperger, suggesting that he not count certain absentee votes that would hurt joe biden. again, let's be very clear here, you had brad raffensperger, a

guy who voted for trump in '16 and '20. raffensperger, again, republican through and through his entire life. brad raffensperger, who won the republican primary in a landslide in 2020, saying lindsey graham called up, tried to get him to throw out some absentee votes to try to help donald trump. let's not do this whole, "god help us." >> i mean, god help us. >> if a senator from out of state can't call another state and talk to a secretary of state and ask that secretary of state to disallow legal votes. yeah, lindsey, god help us if there are more senators who think like you and who do things like that. in the middle of what was beginning to be a conspiracy to overthrow an american presidential election. you're right, lindsey, god help us. chuck, tell us how this works.

there was a recommendation to indict lindsey graham for telling raffensperger to throw out legal votes, but it didn't happen. walk us through the process. >> generically, it is not that unusual. lots of information go before grand juries all the time. they hear about lots of people and lots of acts and lots of different places. that obviously happened here in georgia. at the end of the day, it's up to the prosecutor in this case, fani willis, to determine whether they have sufficient facts and evidence to convict a trial. if you don't, right, there's certainly a delta, a gap, between the quantum of evidence you need to indict, probable cause, and the quantum of evidence you need to convict a trial, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, a higher level. she made the judment that they didn't have what they needed, and she proceeded against some people and not others. joe, if i may, there is something else here that really bugs me. in the federal system, grand jury proceedings are secret.

>> right. >> they only become public if you charge somebody. that means the person charged then has an opportunity to defend himself or herself, right? certain rights attached. you can cross-examine the evidence against you. you get counsel, a trial by jury. a judge presides over it. you can testify in your own defense if you want. when you're simply named in the report, as senator graham was, you don't have an opportunity to defend yourself in a court of law. so i'm not a fan of his. i don't admire him by any stretch, but i think what happened to him and the others who are named but not charged is patently unfair. because there is no place to go, really, to defend yourself. so, you know, without condoning anything he did, because i think it was wholly improper. i hate the notion that reports can be made public and can single people out for, you know, by a grand jury, to suggest they ought to be charged. because they don't have the same rights as somebody who is charged. >> right. >> i don't know that georgia broke its own law. i'm not saying that.

but if that is permitted in georgia, joe, i think it is a very bad idea. >> well, the entire process in georgia regarding the -- this first group of grand juries, where you have grand jury person going out blabbing all over the place out of control, i mean, it does seem like it needs to be tightened up, that part of it needs to be tightened up a good bit. mika, you know, chuck's concerns reminds me of what a lot of people were saying after james comey said, "i'm not going to indict hillary clinton" in 2016, then he went out and held a press conference and indicted her politically. you indict them or don't indict them. if you don't indict them, keep your mouth shut. >> there's a lot of concern that the state, the fulton county case is so sweeping, so grand, it'll take forever. but, jonathan lemire, one thing we see here with this list of names of people who were recommended for charges but were not charged, you could argue that this is a sign that there

was not prosecutorial overreach. that fani willis was as careful as she could be while trying to take this forward. whether it is in federal court or state court, as chuck mentioned earlier, unlike the other cases that could get stumped out if donald trump were to win the presidency, you cannot run from georgia. she has time. >> yeah, i think this decision depends how you look at it. as you bring your own biases to it, you can read into it one way or another. to your point, mika, that's right. we have three u.s. senators here. michael flynn, boris epstein, other top members of trump's orbit named to the report, not indicted. you can argue, okay, the d.a. was very careful. conversely, to what chuck said, it seems by putting the names out at all, it'll inject politics into this. it'll give donald trump and his allies more ammunition to say, look, this is all political.

they're going after senators. d.a. is following facts but, again, it'll be what aboutism, it's about the republicans throwing attacks against the wall and trying to make things stick. but this is -- it's always been the case. when you speak to people in trump's orbit, which i do, they recognize it's the one they have the least control over. they know that this is a state case. donald trump's whole republican for running, in many ways, is to try to stay out of jail. if he were to win, with the federal cases, he can largely make those go away and stop the investigation. he can try to self-pardon himself. he can't do anything about the new york one, as it is a minor matter. this is a big deal. it'll always be looming over donald trump, however long it takes. >> you are right. you talk to -- it's so fascinating how this is all breaking down. you talk to the trump people, they are most concerned about georgia. obviously concerned about the documents. but they like the fort pierce jury. they think that they can get a

fort pierce jury that's not going to follow the law. they talk about jury nutification. -- nullification. they did it with trump. that's the attitude in fort pierce. in d.c., they're concerned about an early trial coming next year. jack smith really tight. has a really tight claim against him. so we'll see how that all works out. i will say, chuck rosenberg, thank you so much. >> thank you, chuck. >> greatly appreciate it. >> as always. >> rev, i will say, though, and i've thought about this. it's so ironic, and i have a friend who went to the iowa/iowa state game last night -- this past week end. he is a cyclone. he said to me, how ironic, that the guy that went around saying "lock her up" and having his audience say "lock her up" is actually a guy who may be locked up. by the way, the student section, the student sections were chanting just that to donald trump on saturday.

>> wow. >> what goes around, comes around. >> what goes around comes around. "lock her up" has turned into students saying, "lock him up." when you look at the irony, you couldn't make this up in a novel, of donald trump, who campaigned on "lock her up," rudy giuliani, who made his name locking people up, and they're now the ones facing the criminal justice system. lindsey graham, who crossed state lines to find out about an election, having to explain why he wasn't sitting in the dock with the other co-defendants. many of us are wondering how they get out of this. >> richard haass, let's go from iowa and iowa state to india and vietnam. how did the meetings go for the president? >> the meeting, the g20 meeting

in india was almost a predictable disappointment. the host country has a lot of sway. even though china and russia were not represented by their leaders, the president really couldn't impose american preferences. the language on ukraine was disappointing, was weaker than it was the last time around. the language on climate change was disappointing. talked about a phase down of coal, whatever that means, in line with national circumstances. essentially giving countries carte blanche to do what they want. the most important thing, though, if you're allowed to say it, 80% of life is showing up. the u.s./india conversation sends a message like the u.s./vietnam conversation. it's a way of basically telling china, we have partners. we are growing economic and strategic ties to these countries on your periphery. china, you have created problems for yourself. that's the important part of the trip, joe. in terms of actual accomplishments, a clear disappointment. >> well, let's talk about china,

though, not being there, first of all, and how impactful that is. secondly, though, let's talk about joe biden and modi getting together in washington, d.c. joe biden and modi getting together in india. talk about the fact that you have india who has the opportunity to really see economic growth over the next decade. if you are india, i mean, just forget we're americans here when we're saying this. even if we were, you know, not americans, not cheering for things to go well with america. the fact is, if you're modi, are you going to be looking to the united states with the $25 trillion economy that just keeps growing faster than most of the rest of the world? are you going to be looking to china, who is sputtering right now, having economic problems and is arresting or at least terrorizing their top

entrepreneurs? this seems like an easy choice for modi. >> the answer to your question is, yes, he's going to do both. it's a pattern of behavior of the indias, vietnams and others. they are simply going to refuse to choose. they're going to want to develop better relations with us economically and strategically, but, and it's a big but, they are not going to cut off china economically or strategically. they're not going to antagonize it. india -- >> well, richard, we shouldn't expect them to do that, though. >> correct. >> this isn't going to be a ussr/usa deal. but if we're the first among partners, the first among equals, that's pretty good, isn't it? >> it's good. but with vietnam, economically, we won't be. probably 100 countries in the world, china is their biggest economic partner. india is going to stay close to russia, going to stay close to china economically. doesn't want to alienate them. they'll want it both ways. india is going to hedge, joe. >> right.

>> u.s. goals to grow the economic relationship with india will happen up to a point. india is still quite protectionist. it's a very hard market to penetrate. but this relationship has grown under democrats and republicans economically and strategically. it'll happen. it just won't be transformational. meanwhile, india has its own challenges domestically. as you know, i mean, mr. modi is leading india in a direction that is less liberal. it's an illiberal democracy, much larger state role. we'll see how it goes. yeah, the economic news out of india is pretty good. it's not substituting for china. if you're tim cook, you're not going to say, india is taking the place of china for me. it's not going to do it. >> we're talking about the margins here. katty kay has a question. >> richard, talk a little more about the g20 in the terms of this idea of rebalancing a little bit of the strength of the global south. it is clearly something, you know, india is trying to lead,

china also wanting to, you know, show that it can be a big player in the global south. i mean, how seriously do you take this, and what are the implications for the transatlantic alliance, for the united states and europe, if we are starting to see these countries. with the expansion, for example, of the bricks organization, if we are starting to see these countries throw their weight around a little more? >> katty, it's a good reminder that the world is moving away from anything that looks buy binary. you have a decentralization of capacity, military, diplomatic, what have you. the g20, in many ways, reflects that. indeed, that's why it was invented nearly 20 years ago. the whole idea was to give countries that didn't have a voice a much bigger voice. that said, the question is whether this desire is going to be backed up by resources. something out of the g20 was to make the financial institutions, the imf, more representative of

the world you're talking about. will it happen? i'm not so sure. is it going to be backed by resources? i think it represents something that is more aspirational than anything else. i come away from these meetings in some way shrugging my shoulders saying, it is not that serious. it's a gathering. there's no permanent staff. it happens when it happens. it comes and goes. whoever runs it next time will have their own agenda. meanwhile, we'll see if there's the resources to really make a difference. the biggest right now challenge to what china is doing with belt and road is not so much us. it is what china is doing with belt and road. that's been our saving grace. >> brazil is the host next year, richard. president biden just went wheels up, leaving hanoi. before he did, he stopped at the john mccain memorial, his friend who was a prisoner there for quite some time. the day before, wrapping up his stop in new delhi, he was press

bid reporters about whether he was trying to check china, curb their expansion there. the administration had telegraphed, that's what we are trying to do. he made a point of saying, no, we're not doing that. i read that as that was message to other countries in the region who are nervous about a conflict between the u.s. and china. it was meant to be reassuring in southeast asia. what happens next with the beijing/washington meeting, especially if china says xi jinping may not meet with him in november? >> the state security administration raised questions about whether xi jinping is going to come to san francisco in november. speculation as to why. is it china's domestic economic problems? he doesn't want to leave? is it because he doesn't want a meeting with the american president against that backdrop? u.s. economy is doing pretty well. china's isn't. was his reason for not coming to the g20 because he was unhappy with india and its strategic association with the u.s.? i don't know the answer. i don't think anybody does. it'll be interesting whether he shows up and, if so, whether

these leaders can establish a floor in their relationship. that's the other thing president biden is trying to do. he doesn't want the u.s./chinese relationship to go into free fall. you'd like a floor, but it takes two to do that. >> i mean, the bottom line is, it is the first time in a very long time that china has been the country between the united states and china, china has been the country that is facing the grim future. economically, they're struggling. again, the united states, we're going through difficult times but, katty kay, the united states, bring us s some perspective, the united states economy is doing better than most economies in the world. i keep talking about it. $25 trillion gdp to china's $17 trillion gdp. it doesn't so long ago, three, four years ago, we were both around $17 trillion, $18 trillion. the united states has kept

growing. china, like japan in 1991, just stopped. >> yeah. i mean, look at the -- what the administration has done over the last two years. it has produced results in terms of the u.s. economy. it looks like america is going to avoid going into recession as it tries to get out of the post covid era. inflation down at 3%. i know prices are still higher than when joe biden came into office. that is part of the problem that he is facing. inflation is coming down. unemployment is down. compare the united states to europe at the moment. i mean, the american economy is booming, healthy, people are employed, and prices are coming down. that's just not the case in europe at the moment. inflation is double what it is here. certainly, you know, you mentioned china and the problems the chinese economy is having, the stagnation the chinese economy is having. america is really the only place to look at in terms of the global economy at the moment. all right. coming up, we'll take a live look at ground zero as the nation remembers the deadly

september 11th attacks. we'll speak with the chief of the national guard bureau, general, about how things changedlater, and the importance of service now. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪

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of a shift in the guard's mission, from a strategic reserve to an operational force that would eventually be deployed to fight in iraq and afghanistan. joining us now, four star general dan hokanson, the chief of the national guard bureau. thank you very much for being on the show this morning on this special day. if you could talk a little bit about the meaning of this day 22 years later, and how it perhaps triggered the transformation of the national guard. >> thank you for that question, mika. i think for all of us that were alive then, it's one of those dais. you remember exactly where you were when you heard the news and the impact it had on our nation. you also look at the heroism that day, by the first responders, by many of our civilians and also our guardsmen, particularly here in new york. we have a large national guard contingent here in new york. literally hundreds of thousands

of them immediately went to their armory without being asked. by the end of the day, we had 6,000 guardsmen on duty here. we had six states involved with the air patrolling. one of the unique stories is within washington, d.c., when flight 93 was unaccounted for, we launched fighters. because they were not armed, they only had 500 rounds of training ammo. their mission was to prevent anything from attacking our nation's capitol. so when the air crews took off, they knew it could mean them having to ram the aircraft to prevent it from attacking our capitol. >> extraordinary moments of service and potential sacrifice 22 years ago. now, we are two decades since the attack. still ever present, particularly those in new york. how are you seeing the spirit of service? are you still seeing americans want to serve in that way, and are you concerned that maybe not enough are? >> you know, there is an

incredible sense of service with those serving today. when you look at the past 20 years, you know, that was really the turning point for the national guard. prior to that, we were more of a strategic reserve. then we became operational over the last 20 years. a million guards men have deployed overseas. when you look at the spirit of service, the development over that time, we have incredible leaders at every level. we'll meet our numbers. the air guard, it's a little closer. what we're finding is those eligible to enter military service. the number continues to decrease every year. at the end of the day, you know, we maintain our standards, and we're looking for the best and brightest. they still come to our formations, and it's really good to have them there. >> the last 20 years, deployment was the greater middle east, afghanistan, so forth. in the future, we're thinking

more europe or asia, china. if you will, the great geopolitical game. how does that affect the guard? how is your training and planning adapting to the return of traditional geopolitics? >> interestingly, the national guard has state partners. every state in the united states has a national partner. we really develop this after the end of the cold war when the berlin wall came down. great example is california has been a partner with ukraine since 1993. really, after russia invaded ukraine for the first time in 2024, our guardsmen sat down with the ukrainians and looked at what went right, what went wrong. we stood up a training group in ukraine in 2016, and we really focused on those areas. you're really seeing the impact there and their ability to thwart russia's plans to invade the entire country. now, there's a lot of work still going on. shortly after the war bebegan, moved our training to germany. we continue to train as guardsmen, the ukrainian army

with equipment. of course, that's making an impact on the battlefield even today. >> general, one of the things i most remember 22 years ago is a sense of people from different races and backgrounds came together and realized that we were all under threat. i mean, no one sent an email in telling blacks or latinos or asians, "don't go to work tomorrow at the twin towers or the pentagon." after that, there was this coming together of saying, "we have our political differences, but we need to stand up and preserve the country." have you seen that growth maintained? did you see it then, this kind of spirit of american unity and what has happened to it in your judgment the last 22 years? >> that's right. i see that every single day. any time i drove with the guard unit or visit them, we have about 23,000 deployed today. you know, to them, they realize the importance of what they're doing. that's regardless of the color

of your skin or what you believe. the end of the day, it says u.s. army, u.s. navy, u.s. marine corps, u.s. coast guard or space force, and we just work together because we have a job to do and take it very seriously. we're honored and proud to represent our country, no matter where it is on the face of the earth. >> chief of the national guard bureau, general dan hokanson, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," a top republican who chairs a key house committee is coming out against republican senator tommy tuberville's block blockade of military nominations, saying it is paralyzing the department of defense. that story is ahead. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting)

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they're honing in on you. why do you think that is? how do you respond to those

attacks? that's not a policy, that's about you. >> listen, this is not new. there's nothing new about that. they feel the need to attack because they're scared. that we will win, based on the merit of the work that joe biden and i and our administration has done. >> even democrats are worried about the president's age. "the wall street journal" had a poll showing two-thirds of democrats say joe biden is too old to run again. are you prepared to be commander in chief? >> yes, i am, if necessary. but joe biden is going to be fine. let me tell you something, i work with joe biden every day. >> that's vice president kamala harris pushing back criticisms surrounding joe biden's age and her readiness to step in as commander in chief, if necessary. >> oh, my god. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> as the president is in india, keeping the schedule that the

former president, like, would absolutely -- >> he didn't do it. he hated leaving. >> -- never do. >> hated leaving. i mean, the guy was just, like, come on. the comparisons, please. it's september 11th. jonathan lemire, katty kay, richard haass, reverend al sharpton still with us. let's bring into the conversation the founder of the bulwark, charlie sykes. a lot of discussions and reflections on 9/11. we have a couple reporters here that were on the ground. mika was, of course. we talked about that a lot through the years. also, jonathan lemire, a young 21-year-old kid at "the daily news" down there on september 11th, checking the morgues and going from fire department to fire department. we'll get to that in a minute. talk a lot more about quite a few things. charlie sykes, i want to talk, first of all, i want to talk about this kamala harris

thing. it is whispered all the time. it's whispered all the time, "oh, kamala harris, she is so horrible. nobody is going to vote for joe biden because" -- first of all, let me say it again, nobody in the history of america has ever voted for a presidential candidate because of a vice presidential candidate. it doesn't happen. that's one. number two, kamala harris, oh, they're being so mean to kamala harris. they're racist. she's a woman. they're scared of her because she's a black woman. they hate black women. they're scared. has anybody ever heard of dan quell? not black or a woman. that guy got raked over the coals unmercifully. has anybody ever heard of george herbert walker bush?

that guy, that guy got destroyed. why? because he was a vice president. you remember the wimp factor, like, that was his cover as vice president. the wimp factor. i mean, here is a guy that was a hero in world war ii. here's a guy that voted against racism in public housing when he was representing texas. i mean, here was a courageous guy. the media mocked and ridiculed, raked him over the coals. he became president of the united states. so i'm just tired of hearing people say, oh, kamala, it is because she's black and she's a woman, she's whatever and they're afraid. no, she's vice president. it's, like, there was a reason why sam rayburn told lyndon johnson it wasn't worth a warm bucket of spit, because it is a miserable job.

you're always getting mocked and ridiculed. >> they did a show called "veep." >> kamala keeps her head down. the vice president keeps her head down. you know, i think she's doing okay for herself. but it doesn't mean people aren't going to continue ridiculing her until she's president of the united states. then they'll go, oh, yeah, you know, we always saw something in her. >> yeah. >> it goes with the territory. by the way, i don't think it was a bucket of warm spit. i think he used a different word. >> i was being nice. >> this goes with the territory. of course, we all remembered dan quell, or ought to remember dan. this will be a central issue in the 2024 campaign. nikki haley made it very, very clear that she's running basically against dead joe biden and live kamala harris, as offensive as that may found. they are going to make her the stand-in for all of this. you're right, no one has ever voted for a vice president, but

we're going to see a lot of unprecedented things next year. look, for joe biden, there are three questions. i mean, has his record been good enough to warrant a second term? you can make a strong case, yes. is he up for a re-election campaign? big question mark. then number three, what is -- what are the democrats' plan b? is it kamala harris? how would she be at the top of the ticket? is she more electable or more vulnerable than joe biden? we're going to have this debate. this basically is parallel to the debate about whether or not joe biden is too old. is he too old to be president? is he too old to be a candidate? what's the -- what is the alternative? that's why these questions are going to continue to be asked. she's going to have to step up and prove that she can handle all of these questions on the biggest stage possible. >> yeah. well, i mean, that's the job. she's got to do it, rev. >> yup. >> the fact is, everybody here,

everybody that our friends at home are watching right here, we spend our days going around with people coming up to us -- and, please, raise your hand if you're not one of these people -- with people saying, "is joe biden too old to run for president?" it is all i hear all day, from republicans, from independents, from democrats, from people in the dnc, from democratic senators, from democratic congressmen, from some people even in the biden administration. it's all i hear all day. if anybody here doesn't hear it all day, please, raise your hand and we'll go to you. reverend al, that's all i hear all day. i know it's all you hear all day. not from you telling me anything. i just know it's out there. i can't walk five feet without somebody going, "is joe biden too old to run? what's going to happen? we don't want trump to be president next. is joe biden -- is it really going to be kamala?" that's what's laid out before us

right now. and it is kamala, the vice president's -- i call her kamala. i know her. we like her, known her a long time. call her the vice president. you know, the vice president has to prove, she's got to show that she's ready for the job. doesn't matter if she's a black woman or a white man or hispanic man or woman. she's got to prove she's ready for the job. >> no doubt about it. but, first of all, i think the democrats, if i were advising them, and i'm not, should take these things head on. one, when people say to me -- and, you are right, people say it all day -- is joe biden too old? how old was he when he passed the inflation reduction act, the infrastructure bill? look what he's gotten done at this age. bring on the old guy who took us out of covid against the guy that was telling us to take bleach.

bring that old guy on because we have serious challenges. in terms of kamala harris, who i know and i've seen them work together. two weeks ago today, we were in the white house after the march on washington, meeting with them together. kamala harris should not be underestimated. who on the republican side can make a better argument that they could be governing and be president if it came to that -- and i don't think there will because there is nothing wrong with joe biden -- but who can govern better than kamala harris? desantis? nikki haley? if you have biases against a woman of color in harris, nikki haley is a woman of color. oh, vivek ramaswamy, turn the country over to him instead of kamala harris? the comparison won't stick when you do a head-on, size up. >> president biden has been more forthcoming about his age, trying to disarm it with humor. aides certainly know that it is

an issue. they can read polls, too, as much as sometimes viewers at home don't want to hear it. that is a topic of conversation, not just in washington, but around the country. katty, so is, to joe's point, the vice president. i think those in the west wing privately admit, the first few months, first year of her time in office was filled with a few political blunders, missteps. they weren't sure what they had. they think she's found her voice here in the last six to eight months, in particular about abortion, about the freedom to choose. she has become their top spokesperson on that issue. much more effective, they believe, than the president himself. she's also taken on some reasons, like governor desantis about his effort to burn books and reshape the education policies there in the state of florida. what is your sense of it? polls suggest she's still a drag on the ticket. do you think that could change? >> it's clear that the first year didn't go very well, and maybe the west wing didn't help. they gave her immigration, which was a very difficult beat for

her to have a success on on the border. that was not seen to go particularly well. she had staffing issues. there were a slew of bad, negative press reports about her and her staffing issues and the fact she wasn't doing well. the white house was very preoccupied about that. i've had conversations, as you have, with people in the white house and the campaign who have talked a lot about how are they going to prepare kamala harris to be the person who can, you know, step in for joe biden on the campaign trail? they really want to boost her numbers so she can take off some of the weight of campaigning from joe biden and relieve him of some of the exhaustion of having to go around, you know. as we know, campaigns are. she could do more of that, but they have to get her poll numbers up better first. otherwise, she can't be an effective surrogate to him. i've spoken to republicans and people on the trump team who basically said they're going to try to frame this as a race between desantis/harris. or trump/harris. so far, it's only nikki haley doing it, perhaps because she is a woman.

it is easier for her to be more critical of kamala harris at this stage of the campaign. make no mistake, that's how republicans are thinking. they still think that's an effective way for them to run, saying to the public, joe biden at the top of the ticket, we don't expect him to last a whole presidency. really, what you are doing is voting for kamala harris. i think the work is still there to be done. it has been a turnaround. she's been good on the abortion issue, and they've sent her around the country effectively on that issue. >> that is her topic, where she is especially strong. it's going to be an important one in the next election. that's already been proven in past elections. republican congressman and house foreign affairs committee chairman michael mccaul is criticizing gop senator tommy tuberville's ongoing blockade on military nominations. >> this is really good news. >> because of the heightened stance on abortion in the military and providing travel for women seeking health care. >> yup. >> here is what the congressman had to say yesterday.

>> this is paralyzing the department of defense. the idea that one man in the senate can hold this up for months, i understand maybe promotions, but nominations is paralyzing the department of defense. i think that is a national security problem and a national security issue, and i really wish he would reconsider this. >> extraordinarily important. richard haass -- >> great he spoke out. i don't know why this is so hard for other republicans. >> yeah, we just had -- >> senate counterparts. >> why don't we just stop and say, it's great that he spoke out. >> it's great he spoke out. >> it is so great. >> thank you. >> it is so great that chairman mccaul, who, by the way, i mean, he's had it right on ukraine. he's had it right on a lot of issues. you hear a lot of crazy stuff coming out of the wacko caucus in the house gop. that may be smaller than we

think. they just have bigger megaphones. but that was great, richard, from chairman mccaul. sends a good message. we need to hear a republican senate leader on armed services do the same thing, and they need to do it every day. >> 100%. >> the pentagon needs to know -- because i had a lot of people reach out to me, i guess thursday or friday, whatever i talked about this. man, they need to know the republicans are on their side, not just with whispers but public declarations that they have confidence, republicans have confidence in our armed forces. and not let the republican senators who are saying they wish we were more like russia or the republican senators who say our troops, our marines, our soldiers, our sailors, our airmen, our coast guard heros, our national guard heros are

weak. because that's the message republican extremists are sending, that they're weak, weak, weak. we need more people like chairman mccaul talking about how strong and tough they are and how dedicated they are and how our men and women who are leading them are heros. because they spend a hell of a lot of time fighting in past wars to protect and defend the united states of america. >> look, absolutely. we just had on the set here the head of the national guard. we were talking off camera about what this means. he basically said, you know, there's hundreds of people who can't move ahead, then there is a daisy chain effect. their kids can't go to school. they start one school, they'll have to be moved onto another. this is the sort of thing, we talk about recruitment, retention, this is the sort of thing that gets to the height of readiness. it's outrageous. every republican candidate for president ought to be denouncing tuberville. joe, you worked in congress, row rumor has it. why don't people stand up and

say this idea of holds, where one senator can hold the entire senate hostage is outrageous? there is nothing in it in the constitution. >> it's got to go. >> it's not a matter of law. basically, it's a privilege. this is the abuse of privilege that ought to be taken away. stand up to a bully like tuberville and basically get rid of this abuse of power. >> charlie sykes, everything richard just said is right. i'm curious to get your take, though, on the politics of this. what exactly is senator tuberville trying to do? who is his audience? i understand he's making a stance on abortion. you know, i'm not certainly doubting the sincerity of his convictions on that. but if you're looking from a political prism, a, abortion has been a losing issue for republicans for a number of elections that we recite here all the time. b, national security and being a friend of the military has been such a central tenant to the republican party for such a long time. is he not risking damaging and

throwing that away as he barrel toward another election? >> first of all, i agree with everything richard said about getting rid of the hold. but, jonathan, i am totally baffled by the politics of all of this. i mean, what is the audience? donald trump seems to like it. other republicans are not willing to take him on. but, you know, for the republican party to go along with what tommy tuberville is doing just strikes me as self-defeating and irrational. the damage he is doing to the military is very, very clear. you know, what message is effective coming from republicans, that we are willing to put the u.s. military at risk? we are willing to put national security at risk because of this anti-wokeness agenda. who is the constituency for this? i don't know. this is the republican party talking to a minority of a minority, a minority of their own base. but the tolerance of this particular stunt, and that's not the right word i don't think,

but of this, you know, reckless behavior, is really remarkable. i do think it speaks to the republican party's inability to police its borders, its inability to say, "look, why are you doing this"? again, i continue to be baffled by mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer allowing it to go on. >> okay. so much happening in congress at the moment. we're also gearing up for the possibility of a government shutdown, as well. it is going to be a busy week on the legal front, too, for donald trump. more hearings are expected in georgia on thursday as trump and 17 other co-defendants await their trial dates. the trial for an 18th co-defendant, kenneth cheseboro, is scheduled for late october. in florida, where trump is charged for allegedly mishandling classified documents, lawyers are set to appear for a hearing to discuss what evidence prosecutors plan to present. that case is scheduled to go to

trial next may. lawyers are also expected to argue an issue related to the federal election case against trump in d.c. court this week. the exact details of the issue are under seal, but we know they're related to the former president's inflammatory comments about those involved in the case. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. joyce, clearly, it'll be a busy week on all those legal fronts. are you looking at the -- which of the cases you looking at particularly to get some kind of sense of where we might be in terms of timing with the election year coming up next? >> yeah, it's a great question, katty. i'm trying to look at all of them simultaneously, which is getting more and more difficult as the details progress. but i think in many ways, the total of the four cases adds up to more than the parts. the parts are very significant. these are serious cases, even

the new york case, which folks sometimes dismiss as a standalone case. that fraud is a very serious allegation. but the reality is that the former president now faces four sustained criminal prosecutions as well as a flurry of civil cases that may find him accountable on a number of different fronts. right now, though, the focus has to be on georgia. that first prosecution is set to go on october 23rd. it must go because of a statutory rule in georgia, that once defendants ask for a speed speedy trial, the district attorney has to show up and begin the process or the charges against them are dismissed. though we don't believe trump will be in the early group, it seems likely the judge will sever the defendants who didn't make speedy trial request and set the trial for months in the future. we'll see what fani willis has in her hand, how good her

evidence is and just how much risk trump is in in georgia, which looks substantial to me. >> fairly sweeping. joyce, i'm curious, mark meadows being denied to try to move his case to federal court, does that signify anything to you about others trying to do the same thing? >> well, i think it does. meadows had the strongest case for removal. remember, removal of a state prosecution to federal court is meant to protect federal employees. more importantly, to keep states from interfering in the functioning of the federal government. in essence, the judge, the federal judge now in atlanta told meadows, look, you were not engaged in your official role when you did the conduct that you've now been indicted for. meadows had a better argument than anybody else. this was his argument, "i have

the chief of staff. even when the president was acting in his personal capacity, i was still obligated to staff him. i had to be prepared for any emergency that might come up." the judge rejected that argument and said, "no, no, you weren't. you're charged with a rico conspiracy. that was a conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 election. that's not part of your job, mark meadows." with meadows' hopes falling, i think that answers the question for other defendants. it's all over but the shouting here. >> joyce, a few weeks ago onpod you were talking about the machinations in the georgia case between the co-defendants and trying to speed up the trial. where are we in -- two weeks later, where are we post labor day with that? you know, i see a lot of headlines that say, you know, trump co-defendants turning on trump or speedy trial, this,

that. where is all of that right now, the sort of infighting between the co-defendants, if there are any? do you see any trend lines that are either positive or negative towards the former president? >> you know, i'm not sure that we know the answer to that yet, joe. it could be characterized as a classic sort of a hot mess. that's not unusual when you have this many defendants in one case. what we do know for sure is that two defendants will go to trial early in october two of the lawyers. the fate of the other 17 hasn't been formally decided. but i think we will continue to see people turn against each other. some defendants may wish to go ahead and plead guilty. others may be considering cooperation deals. something that i think is very certain is that as we get further into this process, nothing gets better for trump. nothing gets better for some of

the top line defendants. >> right. >> increasingly, there will be people who realize that they have something that they can offer prosecutors in exchange for their own skin. >> yeah. joyce, speaking of a hot mess, tough night for the mighty crimson tide. >> i was hoping you weren't going to raise that, joe. tough night. >> painful. >> yeah. >> i was watching thinking, oh, this will be a -- >> we thought they were going to come back. >> former u.s. attorney, joyce vance, thank you very much. charlie sykes, thank you, as well. >> thank you. we're going to turn back now to our coverage of today's anniversary of 9/11. joining us from ground zero, in lower manhattan, homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. thank you very much for joining us this morning. we do want to talk with you about how the threats to the homeland may have changed or adjusted over the past two

decades. but, first, your thoughts on september 11th, 22 years later? >> it is a very, very solemn day. we're honoring the lives lost, those lives lost on 9/11 and also those lives lost in the days, weeks and months following that tragic event. we also honor the heros who responded to the terrorist attacks, of those who also lost their lives, but also those who survived. the most significant way in which we honor those lives is through the work that we at the department of homeland security perform every day to keep our nation secure. >> mr. secretary, good morning. you know, it is more than two decades since those terror attacks, and a question that looms for all americans is, are we safer today than we were then? could you walk us through the efforts that this administration is taking to prevent an attack

like this again? particularly at a time when, as you know, members of the other party, republicans, are very critical of the biden administration's border policies, including the possibility that some people with ill intent could get over the border. >> you know, the threats to the homeland have evolved significantly over the past 20 years. 20 years ago, 22 years ago, we were not thinking about the threat of cybersecurity, where geography is irrelevant, where somebody from across the world can press a keyboard and do so much damage to our critical infrastructure. the threat of adverse nation states spreading disinformation and trying to sow discord in the united states was not something atop of mind. the frequency and gravity of extreme weather events. our department of homeland

security, our federal government working with our state, local, tribal, territorial partners, has grown so significantly in our partnerships, in our capabilities. we certainly are more secure today than we were 22 years ago. >> mr. secretary, richard haass here. you're in the city of new york today, and the mayor has obviously been extraordinarily critical of the administration when it comes to the support or, from his point of view, the lack of support for the many migrants coming into this city. do you feel what he is charging is unfair? and what more are you prepared to do for cities like new york that are facing this great influx of people? >> so i would say the following. first and foremost, we are working with the fundamentally broken immigration system. that is something about which everyone agrees, yet we have not been able to repair it. we need congress to act. that is the fundamental point. within the broken immigration

system, we are doing everything within our authorities to address what is an unprecedented displacement of people in the western hemisphere. it is of historic proportion because of corruption, violence, economic despair, the customary drivers of why people leave their homes, their countries of origin. we are working very closely with the city of new york. we sent a team to assess the situation and make significant recommendations. now, we're execuing on those recommendations, in close partnership with the city. >> secretary mayorkas, al sharpton. one of the things that i think about on today, as i said earlier to the general, is how all of us were attacked despite our race, despite our religion. they saw us as americans, and we all died in the twin towers and in the pentagon. you have crusaded probably more

than anyone in the cabinet abou terrorism, domestic terrorism and hate crimes. i did a eulogy in florida on a hate crime. how important is it for us to deal with on this day, remembering that there are those inside the country that raise a threat to us and that we must remember that we can have our differences but unite as americans. that's as much a message today as any other message we would give today. >> reverend, i so very much appreciate your message of unity. we all remember in the days immediately following the terrorist attack of 9/11, how everyone came together. we saw american flags being flown from cars, from buildings everywhere. we need that message of unity now just as much as we needed it then. you and i spoke following the

tragic killings in jacksonville, florida. when one community is targeted in an act of hate, we all are impacted. we all are targeted. the threat of the domestic violent extremists the most prominent terrorism-related threat that we face in the homeland now. and partnership is the only thing that can conquer that. your message of unity resonates on a day like this so profoundly. >> homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thanks so much. >> we appreciate it. >> thank you. richard, i want to follow up with a question you asked. you know, the mayor of new york city, the governor of new york, the governor of illinois, the

democratic governor of one state after another, massachusetts, these are all pretty progressive people. they're all begging the biden administration to do something about illegal immigration. about all the migrants showing up in new york. yet, this is what's so maddening, is -- first of all, we need a controlled border. i don't care if there is a republican or democrat there. again, just to put it in perspective, illegal crossings were at a 50 year low when barack obama left the office. they exploded under donald trump. they continued to go up under joe biden. so let's just get that perspective right. this isn't a republican versus democratic thing, because democrats have done a lot better job than republicans at times. but we need order at the southern border, which we don't have and haven't had for a long

time. also, when i talk to business people, i talk to small business owners, they're like, i wish i could get some of those people i see in new york city to come to omaha and work in my restaurant. to come to dallas and work in my business center. small business owners, people that run family restaurants, they say it all the time, that run family hardware stores, mid-size businesses, they desperately need workers. this is such a screwed up situation. we could turn this disadvantage into an advantage very quickly, but congress won't act. >> one thing you say right, people should get temporary protected status. that would accelerate their ability to get work permits. it is crazy that people are coming here and we don't let them work for six months, then

we've got to house them and everything else. we won't give them a chance to become self-sufficient. that actually makes no sense. you're right, we have to tighten the border. we've also got to deal with the asylum system. it is crazy that someone comes in the country, they claim asylum, and it might take five or ten years to adjudicate their case. we simply don't have the capacity to deal with this. then the mayor of new york can do something, as well, joe. right now, new york has this idea of this right to shelter. it was passed in 1981 for very limited purposes of families in new york city. it was never intended for this purpose at this scale. new york mayor working with the city council and others, easier said than done, needs to, i think, scale back the offer of coming here, which is something of a magnet. so there's a lot of pieces here. there's congress. there is, you know, the president, the mayor, there's the governor. at the moment, we're just not seeing coming together. this is a crisis. the mayor is talking about it in apocalyptic terms. this is going to quote, unquote,

destroy new york city. i don't know about that, but it is certainly going to take an already dangerous fiscal situation, inhuman situation, and push it toward the brink. >> for sure. >> by the way, he's talking about the administration. i get it, he is talking about congress. iget it. one of the biggest problems is city council right now. the city council is, i'll just say it, they're way too progressive for most of the people in new york city. they just are. i mean, people in new york city, you know, they see -- and, rev, i need to go to you on this. i don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position. i don't know, you know, if you have a lot of friends on the city council, but the mayor can't do a lot of what he wants to do because the city council is so much more progressive than he is on safety in the streets. >> the question becomes, you know, whether we look at what mayor adams said is apocalyptic or not.

he is right, we cannot afford this the way it is going. we cannot say that we can't make moves that may make us uncomfortable. city council has to move on this. we've got to deal with the right to shelter in other countries. he can't move people into other places in the state. the governor can't just, by magic wand, say that they have a right to shelter when you don't have those laws there. and the congress and the federal government has to do something. >> agreed. >> so when adams is being squeezed and he's saying things, rather than dealing with the volume of what he is saying, deal with the magnitude of the problem. for my progressive friends, and many of us work together in the city council, progressive for who, if we are going to run out of money where there's going to be budget cuts on city services to afford this, because the congress will not deal with the work regulations or the work rules, and the city council and others will not deal with the

legislatively possible. i think rather than playing this blame game, as eric aadams, brandon johnson, this, that, what are you going to do for the crisis? budget cuts need to be made in order to afford where we are. >> amen to that. >> by the way, rev, you, as always, just hit the nail on the head here. progressive for whom? the people who suffer here are not the people on the upper east side. it's not the people in park slope. the people who suffer with these budget cuts are the truly disadvantaged in new york city. the people that are suffering the most. it's just like a couple years ago when there was the whole defund the police thing. you had seem in manhattan and park slope, you know, brooklyn heights, you know, having their little protests, sipping their soy lattes, as you say, talking about defunding the police. you weren't hearing that from

places that were in the high crime areas. what did representatives of those areas say? we need more cops in our schools. we need more cops on the street protecting our children so when they walk from our place to school, they're not going to get, like, attacked ten times by people selling drugs on the street. we need order in our streets. that's what they were saying. i mean, must be nice to be rich enough to be woke in new york city. unfortunately, it's a truly disadvantaged who suffer time and again, just like they did with the stupid defund the police idea. they're the ones that are suffering right now because, as you say, city services are going to be cut, and all the bad news goes downhill. it is the truly disadvantaged in the poorest parts of new york city that suffer the most. what is progressive and humanitarian about that, rev? >> nothing. and when the city services are cut, which they should not have to be cut, and they shouldn't

have to go to the reserve to deal with them, then we'll be protesting about the city services being cut. let's be real. everyone needs to come forward and put on the table, from the city council to the congress, what they're going to do. this is not a pending emergency. it's an emergency! thousands of people are coming into these cities right now. >> exactly. >> we didn't elect you to philosophize. we elected you to govern. you have to govern situations as they occur, and we are in a situation. >> yeah. the city council is not doing it right now. they need to work with the mayor. this needs to get fixed. we're talking about new york city. jonathan lemire, it's a very difficult situation we're going through right now. obviously, nothing like what happened 22 years ago. i looked at those pictures. t.j., if you could put up the pictures, absolutely stunning skyline view today. >> my goodness. >> the clouds hovering over the

city. a city that, my god, faced just the worst of trageies 22 years ago. in the months and years following, it was a city that was resilient. a city that was tough. a city that fought back. a city that i love. i remember soon after 9/11 going to speak in a stadium in fort walton beach. a lot of speakers came to talk about 9/11. you didn't hear a lot of positive things about new york city before 9/11. i remember finishing my speech by saying, "i know i speak for everyone in northwest florida and across the globe when i say, i love new york." the place went crazy. new york found a special place in the heart of every american. they were on the front lines in this new war against terror. you know what? they reacted pretty damn jonathan. but that morning, take us back

to the morning for you. >> yeah, the city has proved resilient ever since, against hurricanes and the first wave of covid. last night, i was able to watch the towers of light, which they project at night this week every year. two beams of light representing the old twin towers up into the heavens. moving sight every year, 22 years on. i was, as you mentioned earlier, a 21-year-old intern at the "new york daily news." it was primary night, election night in new york city. i was supposed to work that evening with one of the candidates. i was sleeping on a friend's couch in the upper west side, didn't have an apartment of my own at that moment. was woken up by news of the plane crashes. by the time i reached my editors, the second plane hit. subways were out. it was a question of just start walking. so i walked south and eventually got through and went over to the hospitals and the morgues, where i spent the most of the day, going to firehouses. the sight i remember the most of

the 11th, and so much of it is still with you, the deep blue sky, the smell of the smoke, you know, i can still see and taste that. but it was being at cornell well hospital, one of the best in the city, upper east side, and row upon row of empty hospital beds, beds that stayed empty, because there were no patients to be treated. there were no survivors being rushed there. they died when the towers fell. the next day, i got down to ground zero and spent much of the next several days at the pit. then worked, like every journalist in new york, you know, and, mika, i know you, as well, for months around the clock, everything that came after the towers fell and as the city struggled to recover and rebuild. but it has, it has. it is tested since but will, joe and mika, certainly meet that challenge again. that day 22 years ago will remain, in some ways, the city's darkest day, but also one of the its strongest. >> my god, the firemen.

>> for sure. >> the cops. the city officials. just remarkable and heroic. mika, it was one of your first days at cbs news. >> when the first plane hit, i ran to the towers and found myself running away from the tower falling above me. the first one. >> you ran down from 57th? >> i did, right down the west side highway. it was gridlocked, so there was no way to get there. every car had stopped. every radio was on. people were clustered around cars, trying to find out what the heck was going on. and as jonathan mentioned, the skies were such vivid blue. it was a crisp, beautiful september day. sort of, i remember my feelings around that day. we all do, because it was a

hopeful day. so many kids were starting school that week. i was a mother of two little girls, and my daughter was in kindergarten. it was just such a hopeful, promising time. like jonathan, i covered the empty hospitals, the wreckage, the air, the people working in the pit, the faces of the dead, the thousands of faces of the dead, of people walking around with pictures of their loved one, just speaking to the air, speaking to anyone who would listen, saying, "have you seen my wife? have you seen my daughter?" the shock and inability, really, to accept that so many people were simply gone. >> and you were, several times, shocked yourself. one time, when you were looking up and shocked to see -- and you

just couldn't comprehend what you were seeing. people jumping. >> yeah. >> just so horrified. it was a horror film for you, you said. also, when the second tower began to fall, you were just staring there at it. it was byron pitts who grabbed you and threw you under a car. talk about that. >> yeah. the building sort of crumbled from the top and started sort of rolling toward us. i was close enough that, to look at the top, i had to crane my head way back. i just couldn't process what i was seeing. that these iconic, massive towers, ultimately both of them, could crumble into pieces. byron grabbed my hand and said, "we got to get out of here." we were diving under cars and scrambling and crawling and trying to figure out where to go, but still cover it. we ended up in a school. we found -- i found a pair of

boots to wear in a closet in the recycling bin. we found a phone. we plugged it into the wall, and we were on the air and stayed there for many days and many weeks. i will say, just personal reflections, when it really hit me, what had happened, because, obviously, when you're covering this, you stay in work mode. you process later. and the two moments ivividly to is, five weeks after 9/11, leaving the ground zero zone where i lived in the live truck, then crossing over the line into the rest of new york, and new york being so resilient. cafes were still open. restaurants and people were going to work. i found myself very twisted and upset that life could go on. at the same time, it was important that life did go on. the second was going to my

daughter's school, st. joseph's, in bronxville, new york, to see her for the first time. >> how long had you been down? >> i think about five weeks. i don't know. i stayed down there many months. but my first time home, i went straight to the school and just wanted to hug her. ended up having a real breakdown in the halls of st. joseph's. needing to pray, needing to pull myself together, but realizing at that moment that there was a line in all of our lives. time of life before 9/11 and life after 9/11. i think a lot of us felt a lot of guilt, to be able to go home to our kids, to be able to move forward and have that family, because so many people lost everything. they lost the people they love. >> yeah.

you know, rev, so grateful for your memories and something that you've been underlining today, because it is something i noticed in the pictures coming out of 9/11, especially for those americans that were moving away from the towers that had fallen. it's an iconic picture i had up in my house for years right there. but i saw them coming, and there was one extraordinarily iconic image, whether there are five, six, seven people that must have worked on wall street. they were covered in dust. you couldn't tell if they were white, if they were black, if they were hispanic, if they were asian-american, if they were from the middle east. you couldn't tell. all you could tell is that they had been attacked, and they were all running out, running away to get home to their families, to survive this and get home to

their families. i really looked at that picture, as really just underlining the simple fact that we knew then and we should know now, that we are one. out of many, one. >> and i think those that attacked us saw us as that. the challenge is, when we will see ourselves and behave as one. give each other the same equality. we had a young man that came to stay with us because his mother, he couldn't find her. she worked at the twin towers. i watched this young man for nine weeks, every time the phone would ring or cell phone would ring in our house -- he was friends with both my daughters, his name was travis -- he'd jump, hoping it was his mother. he had to come to terms with his mother wasn't coming back. she worked in the building, a regular worker. she was somewhere in the rubble. he has, in the last 22 years, become a minister, graduated, got degrees in the name of his mother. there are many like that, that

wanted to take from this debris and become a testament and a monument, so that we can rise. we have to do that together as we went down in those towers and in the pentagon together. we've got to rise together. >> got to rise up. we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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that get tails and tongues wagging. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. 53 past the hour. donald trump seems to enjoy putting his name on anything he can for branding purposes. but for some reason, his post-presidential office is hiding in plain sight. that is according to an exclusive nbc news report that reveals that trump hasn't put his name on his taxpayer funded post-presidential office located in west palm beach, florida

about ten minute drive from his mar-a-lago club. here is a picture of that office. trump's website reportedly doesn't list the address. the name plate on the hallway wall is blank. there is no seal official or unofficial on the frosted glass door. and the name trump is nowhere to be found. joining us now one of the authors of this report, politics reporter jonathan allen. why, jonathan, do we know anything more about this office and why it is being treated so mysteriously? >> good morning, mika. so mysteriously that when i asked a trump spokesman, he said he never heard of the office. submitted a bunch of questions by email and didn't get anything back. but what is going on are a couple things that i think are important. number one, when the mar-a-lago raid happened in august of 2022. there were classified materials at this post-presidential office that later got moved to

mar-a-lago. they have since been turned over to the government. but as a result of that, what happened was trump's lawyers asked that this post-presidential office that very few people knew about, they asked that it be searched by a private firm. there is no indication that the fbi has actually searched this office even though they have been looking not only for classified documents but also things that are responsive to the presidential records act that are not classified but do belong to the united states government. the other interesting thing that is going on here and of course by the way i should say we don't know what is in that office. like the fbi, we weren't able to search it, but what we've been told familiar with it is that there are bankers boxes piled up all over the place. and the other interesting thing about this office, aides that are on donald trump's political payroll, either his police police -- political action committee, his campaign, are both, have have worked out of this office.

and it is not clear if they are separating the work that they doing from political work. and of course this is paid for by the general services administration, the federal agency that maintains ex-president's offices. >> well, let us know if you find out anymore. jonathan allen, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," congress is gearing up for a battle over government funding as a plan to avoid a shutdown could hit a road block from the freedom caucus. plus newly released georgia special grand jury report reveals charges were recommended for almost two dozen additional people, including senator lindsey graham. we'll have his reaction to this news straight ahead on "morning joe." news straight ahead on "morning joe. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions

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welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, september 11th. that is a live look at ground zero as we commemorate the september 11th attacks on this country 22 years later. we'll show you this morning's live events from new york to burlington to pennsylvania. also this morning, president biden is heading back from his overseas trip. we'll discuss the key takeaways from the g-20 summit. plus mark meadows loses his fight to move his georgia elections case to federal court. what this now means for the other co-defendants including trump who want to make the same move. this as we're learning more about how a special grand jury in georgia had also recommended charging dozens more including senator lindsey graham. we'll show you how the south carolina responding and get analysis on the expanded list.

those people who weren't indicted. with us we have jonathan lemire, katty kay, richard haas, and also reverend al sharpton. >> a lot to get to. i will say at least in new york, last night -- yesterday -- a lot of people looking at the u.s. open and the day before -- >> oh, my gosh, coco gauff, that was incredible. my daughter and i watched together. and we were just at the edge of our seats. she looked like she was down for the count. she looked tired in the first and second. and then the third set, my god -- >> came roaring back in the second set. third set. and really inspirational.

richard haass, you are our golf expert, why don't you talk about tennis. >> yeah, the ball moves a little differently. but she was fantastic. first set she almost didn't play. points were decided on her opponent's unforced errors and so forth. second set was a transition. third set was dominant. and yesterday the men's final to watch djokovic, again, second set was unbelievable, it was a marathon set just fantastic tennis. but again, 24 grand slams. so you had the statement by the exist being greatest players some might say and she is the rising star. so i thought it was a fantastic weekend of tennis and i want to thank you for not raising football. >> there we go. >> i will not raise football. it has to hurt for you so badly. but, yeah, jonathan lemire,

again,you the rise of the new and celebration for who may be the greatest of all time, 24 titles. and djokovic pushed to the wall in an extraordinary second said tiebreaker. you could tell really after he got through that that he was heading for his 24th title. >> yeah, and djokovic certainly nowhere near as beloved as federer or nadal, but just relentless and that is his defining characteristic. he doesn't stop, he keeps coming, he keeps coming. he makes you beat yourself. and once he survived the second set, his opponent threw all he could at him. second set was coronation and stats are speak for himself. djokovic still a few years left. but let's be clear, story of the weekend was coco gauff. she is the star of new york city. she was extraordinary, she lit up the entire tournament. she had a scare in her very

first match where she fell behind and had to rally in the third set. i saw her in the round of 16, i was there when she beat a terrific opponent in three sets. and this was a moment saturday night, they are in new york and a wonderful video going around that she had attended the u.s. open as a child, as a fan, and they show her dancing in the crowd and here a decade later she wins her first grand sham. and surely not her last. >> mika, what i felt was so beautiful about it, again, a new champion is crowned. so exciting. and a tournament where really the spirit of billie jean king, just permeated the whole tournament, made it so joyful. and billy jean was cheering for her every step of the way. >> when she got handed the prize money, she said thank you billy jean to making this possible. such an incredible moment, so

many incredible moments. coco gauff is a new generation of young women who speak for themselves. if you watch her interactions with her coaches, her male coaches even, she pushes back and tells them to back off when she knows what she's -- that she's got it. and just so many incredible moments on that court. but i loved when she thanked the people who didn't believe in her. at the end when she got her trophy. it was awesome. >> i loved had. she took on the haters and she did it with such class. and she made a point of doing it, right? she went for the microphone and said i've got one more thing i need to say. and she called out so many detractors and critics. particularly a young black woman would have had a ton of them. and she did it with it win. not only did she take them on in boards, word, but when she won e

tournament. and we talk about this in politics a lot about the old guard and new guard. car loss alcarez didn't make it into the finals, but we have right there, we have coco gauff and carlos, and they will be the next generation of tennis players. and djokovic acknowledged that that we're passing the baton on to the next generation. >> yeah, and no doubt sweaty. and coco, yes, she pushed back against hater, but so graceful through the process, so grateful to her parents, her family, to the coaches, for the people of new york. it was just beautiful. absolutely beautiful. and before we go on, i just got to say, we can't let this go

because, yeah, jonathan lemire, we won't bring richard in last night. it was just ugly. quite a remarkable opening weekend. browns dominated the bengals. but, boy, last night, the giants just got absolutely pounded. >> yeah, giants picked to go far this year and this was over and over fast. and it was ugly. final score 40-0. field goal blocked, run back for a touchdown, a pick six soon followed. this was never a game. and the cowboys smoked the giants there at home. tonight of course aaron rodgers makes his debut with the jets. fun to have football back. browns really thumped the

bengals. joe burrow doesn't seem 100%. so yeah, even the atlanta falcons, yes, falcons -- >> that's right. jack scarborough and i were there. >> can't believe it. >> and he really wanted to get up to atlanta and wanted to see the debut of bryce young who did fairly well. but whether you are talking about mac jones or bryce young and crimson tide, not an incredible week. but tua was incredible. >> and football intersected with politics over the weekend. >> here is the segue. >> so the rivalry, a college football rivalry was injected with even more bitterness over the weekend when the two frontrunners for the 2024 republican presidential nomination both showed up at the

game. on saturday both former president trump and florida governor ron desantis attended the contest between iowa and iowa state. trump sad in the private suite and greeted with cheers and also notably some boos and insulting gestures when he at one point waved to the crowd. >> he waved back but not in the way that he wanted. >> we won't go into detail. desantis meanwhile sat in the stands with iowa's kim reynolds said he would consider for vice president if he won the nomination. and both trying to win over iowans outside the stadium. so there you go. donald trump took to truth social to voice -- >> he was angry. angry old man. >> youyeah, it was about a rece

poll that asked about his age and mentality. and the former president wrote in a phony probably rigged "wall street journal" poll coming out of nowhere to stoftenned the mental incompetence blow that is so obvious with crooked joe biden, they ask about my age and mentality. where did that come from? a few years ago i was the only one to agree to a mental acuity test. >> well, we can play you about an hour worth of clips that snow you what -- >> we won't have enough time. >> showing you how to walk down the stage at west point. >> i digress. but i was the only one who agreed to a mental acuity test. >> you said horse, cow, wall -- the fact that you say you aced it shows how wobbly things must be for you. >> and he added now that the globalists at fox and the "wall street journal" have filled to push their third tier candidate

to succeed, they do this. i hereby challenge rupert murdoch and son, biden, "wall street journal" heads to acuity tests. >> that would not work out well for donald trump on so many levels. rev, i'm so glad that this -- that alex put this here. first of all, i want you to talk about how unboard donald trump is, continues to be, and now calling rupert murdoch and fox news globalists. but secondly, i went to all these links last night that said joe biden crazy as hell, looks like -- joe biden sleepy, joe this, joe that. i figured that he had be tired in vietnam. that is not a shock. i said before he left, india? vietnam? i'm not so sure.

so i looked at it and you know, at this point, they are just making s up, they are just making stuff up. he is tired. and then he goes i'm going to bed. no matter what the guy does, they will have these screaming headlines saying that he is out of it and crazy when it is just the opposite. and then you got donald trump how will being at the moon saying crazy stuff every day. it is like i don't know. i talk to a lot of people over the past week or so, and they don't -- they are not thrilled about either side, but it is not like that they are going biden is crazy and trump is all there. it is kind of the opposite. >> it is exactly the opposite. you'd be -- the advantage that trump has is when you start off a little strange, it is harder to gauge that you've gotten stranger. i mean, we look at biden who started off normal and starts sawing is he acting off. trump started off, so has harder

for people to catch up with how off he's really gotten because he was never really that stable and centered in the first place as we would judge being stable and centered. and then for him now to pick fights that really help to create his candidacy this '16, "wall street journal," fox news, it is like a child which also gives you concerns about is he losing his balance even more than he was already off balance. it is like a child. anybody that says anything, incites him to start playing childish games and goes off, i think that we have -- if i was in the republic, i'd be concerned about donald trump not because of his age but because of where his mind has always been. it is all about him and only about him and he can't help

himself. >> and really quickly, we want to -- we have chuck rosenberg here. we want to talk about the court cases. but first, jonathan lemire, the fact that we're all talking about next year 2024 and, you know, a lot of hand wringing, a lot of bed wetting on his plastic bedsheets. but yes, 50% of republicans support him. great. that is 50% that don't. and then you have this war with fox news. i mean, i talked to somebody this weekend, again, a supporter of trump and we were talking and, you know, they watch newsmax. that is where they get all their news. but it is these splinters and divisions and we have a guy who wants to be the republican nominee trashing fox news every day.

again, fox new, they will get by. you know, other people will get by. but i'm just saying, when you have a republican party that is that splintered, donald trump guiding it right down the middle, it doesn't bode well for next year. i don't care what everybody says. >> yeah, trump is making a bet that he is bigger than fox. he doesn't need fox. and that is a risky bet to make. they know what power they have wielded for such a long time. and it is true, they were supportive eventually of trump in 2016, they were all in on 2020. and they have gone in back and forth here. like he has -- they certainly seem to be flirting with the candidacy of ron desantis for a while as that has stalled -- looking at their coverage, they ever warmed up to trump again for the most part. but that is not good enough for trump. trump wants a kim jung-unesque chorus. and so if there is any dissenting voice, he singles out the occasional a anchor at fox

news, and so that is not good enough and he goes scorched earth against them. and to your point that is dangerous a little bit here. he is far ahead in the primaries and even a fractured republican party seems to renominate him. but as we go into next year, he can't afford to lose any support. we know how close next year's election will be. we talk about how president biden can't afford to lose the small margins, whether sdroerts of color or those the tractsed to more liberal candidate. but trump doesn't have a margin of error either.r those the tra liberal candidate. but trump doesn't have a margin of error either. so if he doesn't get the full support from fox news, that could hurt. and coming up, elon musk admits he pulled the plug on his satellite equipment to stop russia. >> you are concerned that musk

is establishing his own diplomatic outreach? >> i can't speak to conversations that may or may not have happened. i don't know. i'm focused on the fact that the technology itself star links on many been important to the ukrainians and remain so is. >> and we only learned about the details from the next guest reporting, best seller author walter isaacson joining us with his biography of the world's richest man, that is straight ahead on "morning joe." d on "mo. before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea,

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we'll turn now to fulton county, georgia where mark meadows as lost his bid to move the criminal case against him to federal court. >> and that is not good news for trump or anybody. >> the jump ruled on friday that meadows alleged involvement in

efforts to pressure state officials to overturn the 2020 election results was not part of his official duties as white house chief of staff. according to a court filing, the judge found the actions, quote, at the heart of the state's charges against meadows were taken on behalf of the trump campaign with the ultimate goal of effecting state election activities and procedures. meadows has already notified to the court that he plans to appeal. >> and he will lose. because this is obviously he will lose all the way up. >> in his ruling the judge did say that the decision does not have any effect on the outcome of other co-defendants seeking to move their cases to federal court. last week attorneys for former president trump said that he might seek to do so as well, move the case to federal court, but it also is just -- i mean, with trump anything to delay. >> yeah, but again, this is far from presidential duties what they are doing here in georgia.

it is just the opposite which is why the case is being brought -- charges are being brought. let's bring in former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg. give us your take on the decision by the judge and how it may impact the other defendants. >> yeah, i read judge jones' decision and i thought that it was thoughtful and thorough. i think that it is probably impervious on appeal. although that may turn in some part on the panel you draw on the 11 theth circuit court of appeals. but as a matter of fact and a matter of law to your point, mark meadows was acting outside the scope of his official duties as white house chief of staff. that means when he seeks to remove his case to federal court, he loses. so, you know, i never thought that it would a frivolous attempt by mr. meadows to remove the case. he has a lot of reasons why he would want to do so. but i didn't think that it was going to prevail.

it didn't. i think that judge jones was right to say that i'll listen to anyone who wants to make a similar motion and i'll judge each case on its merits. but i think by and large it will be hard for other state defendants to get their cases removed to federal court. again, i thought it was thorough and thoughtful and i think that it sort of bodes poorly for other people who will make a similar claim. >> so, chuck, you seem to be suggesting that it will be difficult for donald trump. i know there are a bunch of other defendants trying to do the same thing, but it would make it difficult for donald trump to have his case moved to federal court which would have multiple advantages for him in terms of the juror pool and his potential to pardon himself later on. you can just answer that, but also whether we'll get some sense this week in hearings about the timing of the georgia case? >> sure, katty. a lot of good questions there. and number one, it is a little bit different for mr. trump

because by definition, by statute the president and vice president are not covered by the hatch act the provision that includes political activity by political on the federal government payroll. and so the fact all posture of his case will be a little different. i still think what he tried do was outside the scope of his duties and i think that he loses.to do was outside the scope of his duties and i think that he loses. the jury pool in the northern district of georgia is not all that different than the jury pool in fulton county. a little more red, a little more diverse. but it is not all that different. and i wouldn't make too much of it because i think juries can be selected by a good judge to be fair and thoughtful and follow the facts and apply the law. that is one thing. second thing, even if mr. trump

gets his case into federal court, it simply would be a stays case tried in federal court. and so where he convicted and if he were reelected as president, two big ifs, he could not pardon himself because it is still at its roots a state charge and a state conviction. so a lot of things to play out. still early innings here. but i do think that judge jones' opinion does not bode well for other people seeking to remove their cases to federal court. >> yeah, and there is a lot more to this story to cover this morning including a lindsey graham connection to the fulton county case. we'll get to that. chuck, if you could please stay with us. we'll need you for that. also still ahead, a member of the foreign relations committee senator chris coons is standing by and we'll discuss the big takeaways from president biden's trip to the g-20 summit, that is ahead. that is ahead.

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so report from the special grand jury that investigated the 2020 election interference case in futon county reveals charges were recommended for almost two dozen additional people including south carolina senator lindsey graham. graham along with david perdue, kelly leffler and michael flynn were among those who the special grand jury recommended for indictment but were never charged. graham was investigated by fani willis over two phone calls that he made to georgia secretary of state raffensperger and his staff after the 2020 election. raffensperger claims that graham

suggested his office had the power to reject certain an tennessee ballots. but graham insists that he was only trying to understand the process for verifying valid suggests in georgia. >> what i did was consistent with by job as being united states senator, asking questions about the mail-in voting process. i never asked him to set aside ballots or anything else. after the conversation, i decided that it was best for me to vote to certify the election. if it ever becomes impossible or politically dangerous or legally dangerous for a united states senator to call up people to find out how the election was run, god help us all. the next election if i have question, i'll do the same thing. >> god help us all if we have united states senators like lindsey graham who feel free to call up. in the worlds of trump supporting republican secretary

of state brad raffensperger, suggesting that he not count certain absentee votes that would hurt joe biden, again, let's be very clear here, you had brad raffensperger, guy who vote for the trump in '16 and '20, brad raffensperger who again a republican through and through his entire life, brad raffensperger who won the republican primary in a landslide in 2020, saying lindsey graham called up, tried to rig the -- tried to get him to throw out some absentee votes for try to help donald trump. so let's not do this whole, god help us if a senator from out of state can't call another state and talk to a secretary of state and ask that secretary of state to disallow legal votes. god -- yeah, lindsey, god help us if there are more senators who think like you and who do things like that. and in the middle of what was beginning to be a conspiracy to

overthrow an american presidential election. you're right, lindsey, god help us. chuck, tell me how this works. there is recommendation to indict lindsey graham for trying to tell raffensperger to throw out the votes. >> yeah, it is not that unusual. a lot of information goes before a grand jury all the time. they hear about a lot of people and a lot of abilities and different places that obviously happened here in georgia. at the end of the day, it is up to the prosecutor in this case fani willis to determine whether they have specific evidence to convict. and if you don't, there is a gap between "the quan" tumg of evidence that you need to indict, and evidence you need to convict. so a much higher level. and so she made a judgment that they didn't have what they

needed and she proceeded against some people and not others. but joe, if i may, there is something else here that really bugs me. in the federal system, grand jury proceedings are secret. they only become public if you charge somebody. and that means that the person charged then has an opportunity to defend himself or herself. you cacan cross-examine the evidence, a judge presides, you can testify in your own defense if you want. when you are simply named in a report as senator graham was, you don't have an opportunity to defend yourself in a court of fall. so i'm not a fan his and i don't admire him, but i think what happened to him and the others named and not charged is patently unfair because there is no place to go really to defend yourself. so, you notice, without condoning anything that he did because i think that it was wholly improper, i hate the notion that reports will be made public and can single people out

for, you know -- by a grand jury to suggest that they ought to be charged because they don't have the same rights as somebody who is charged. i don't know that georgia broke its own law. i'm not saying that. but if that is permitted in georgia, i think that it is a very bad idea. >> well, the entire process in georgia regarding the -- this first group of grand juries where you have a grand jury person blabbing all over the place out of control, it does seem like it needs to be tightened up. that part of it needs to be tightened up a good bit. and mika, chuck's concerns reminds me of what a lot of people were saying after james comey said i won't indict hillary clinton and then he went out and held a press conference and indicted her politically. you either indictment or you don't. if you don't, keep your mouth shut. >> and there is a lot of concern that the state, the fulton county case is so sweeping, so grand, it will take forever.

but jonathan lemire, one thing that we see her with this list of names of people who were recommended for charges but were not charged, you could argue that this is a sign that there was not prosecutorial overreach, that fani willis was as careful as she could be while she is trying to take this case forward. and also whether it is in federal court or state court as chuck mentioned earlier, unlike all the other cases that could get stamped out if donald trump were to win the president presidency, you cannot run from georgia. she has time. >> yeah, i think this decision, depends how you look at it. i think to your point, that's right, we have three u.s. senators here, michael flynn, boris epstein, other top members named and not indicted. so you could argue that the d.a. was being very careful. conversely to what chuck said, it seems like putting the names

out there at all, you are injecting politics in to this and it will give trump more ammunition to say that this is all politically motivated. and we know that the d.a. is following the facts but again, it will be smoke, it is about the republicans throwing attacks up against the wall and trying to make things stick. but you are -- this is always the case that when you speak to people in trump's orbit, which i do, they recognize this is the one that they have the least control over, that they know that this is a state case, that donald trump's whole reason for running in many ways is to try to stay out of jail. and if he were to win, with the federal cases he could largely those go away, he could self pardon himself. the new york one is a minor matter. but this is a big deal and it will always loom over donald trump. coming up, live pictures from lower manhattan where just ahead a moment of silence will

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as part of our coverage, remembering 9/11, 22 years later. we're about to observe a moment of silence. at 8:46 a.m. eastern time, marking the exact moment american airlines flight 11 crashed into the north face of the north tower. it would take only seconds for new york police and fire crews to arrive on the scene. and begin immediate evacuations. at the ceremonies in new york city, vice president kamala

harris will be there as the president is traveling back from asia. also 22 years ago today at 9:03, united airlines flight 175 crashed into the south tower. it collapsed 56 minutes later. and then at 9:37, measure airlines flight 77 crashed in to the western side of the pentagon, 189 people were killed in that attack. 64 on board the plane. and 125 people inside the building. first lady jill biden will lay a wreath at the national 9/11 pentagon memorial to honor the lives of those lost on september 11th. and at 10:03 after passengers and crew of hijacked united airlines flight 93 learned of what was happening on the ground, they fought bac,

crashing that plane into an open field in shanksville, pennsylvania. second gentleman doug emoff will be there remembering the day. and 102 minutes after being struck, the north tower collapsed. 2997 people killed, thousands more injured. here now the moment of violence. [ bagpipes playing ]

[ bagpipes playing ] >> as we watch these ceremony, joining us now lawrence wright, author of the pulitzer prize winning book the looming tower, al qaeda and the road to 9/11. considered by many to be the seminole work on the rise of al qaeda. lawrence, thank you for joining us for our coverage today. first just want to you share

your thoughts on 9/11, 22 years later. >> well, i have to say i mourn the america that we lost in that moment. there was a sense of safety and unity, civil comity that we haven't regained sense then. and i also mourn the country we might have been. i don't know if you remember this feeling, but right after 9/11, there was this sense among so many people that we were going to have to stand for something now. that our generation had gotten off easy. you know, we didn't have wars or depression or playing, history had given us a break and suddenly history visit the us and we were called up to do something. and many people did join the in i will taker services, intelligence services. but for the most part, that sense of purpose was lost.

and we found ourselves bogged down in meaningless and expensive and tear arebly dangerous wars in countries that we didn't understand. and, you know, we could have been a different country. we were a different country before 9/11. we could have become a better country after 9/11. but we took a different road. >> and talk about the threats to our homeland today. obviously you are right, there was a lot to take a stand for right after 9/11. but the threat has changed. it is transforms itself because of world events, but also if i may very carefully say events here at home. >> yeah, unfortunately the threat of terrorism has moved from foreign actors to domestic ones. actions of al qaeda and other terrorist organizations, not to

say that terrorism from foreign shores is gone. no, al qaeda still exists and other entities taliban back in power, so there are still dangers abroad. but greater dangers are domesti highly empowered with modern weapons and explosives and military training in some cases. we have to face this union inside our shores and not defending ourselves from foreign actors. >> you spent a lot of time when you were writing the book throughout the middle east. talk about the impact that american retaliation after 9/11 had on countries like iraq and afghanistan. >> well, just to take iraq as an

example, often we hear about the number of fatalities being half a million people, something like that. god knows the treasury that we spent on those two wars. i don't think we even understand. we haven't really factored in the cost of our society, both in terms of our budget and so on and also the moral cost that has been extracted by our adventures abroad. has it improved the situation? well, i think we put al qaeda to sleep for a while, but al qaeda on 9/11 was about 300 or 400 guys. more recent estimates say 30,000 to 40,000 people in al qaeda and its affiliates. now the focus has moved to sub-saharan africa, but their goals haven't changed. so that remains a problem. i think one of the big factors

that people need to concentrate on is the number of displaced people in the world, the refugee populations. when we started talking about terrorism back 50 years ago, we were talking about palestinians. the exodus in 1948 was about 750,000 palestinians. out of that came the hijackings and so on. we're talking tens of millions of people in refugee camps or in squalid conditions in countries not their own. the danger of radicalization in organizations in camps like that is really formidable, and i am concerned about the future there. >> lawrence, as you just said, there was a moment of national unity after september 11th, 2001, also the globe rallied to

our defense. if, god forbid, the united states were to be victim of another terror attack, what do you think would happen now? would we as a nation come together as we did then? and everything that's happened since then, do you think the world would rally to us in the same way? >> honestly, i don't. i think the history since 9/11 has alienated much of the world from america. you know, the sense was america stood for certain values that were universal. i don't think much of the world feels that way any longer. america was not a colonialist power. that was one of the reasons many people in the arab world were on our side, because we didn't have that history. i don't think people in that part of the world feel similarly. the world has become very

polarized between different entities. the united states has its allies, fortunately, but the good will that once existed towards america broadly around the world i think has largely dissipated. >> lawrence wright, thank you so much for joining us today. >> my pleasure. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," a member of the foreign relations committee, chris coons will join us. plus, search and rescue teams are working around the clock of a devastating earthquake hit morocco. we'll have the latest on the race to find survivors. the late race to find survivors

a live look at lower manhattan on this monday, september 11th. welcome back to the fourth hour

of "morning joe." >> that is just an extraordinary shot, an extraordinary haunting shot. it's, of course, 22 years later. it's the clouds that are hanging low over new york city. of course, anybody that was there that day or anybody that watched the news can't look at those clouds and not think of the smoke that was billowing out that morning. look how haunting that is. >> it's just before 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. in the east. in a few minutes, we will be speaking with walter isaacson who's written seminal biographies on steve jobs, albert einstein and leonardo davinci. his latest work focuses on one of the most controversial innovators of our time, elon musk. walter was granted extraordinary access to the billionaire owner

of spacex, tesla and x, formerly twitter, spending the better part of two years with the mercurial entrepreneur. walter will join us just ahead to share what he learned. >> walter is doing this during a mercurial time, during a time when many people thought that elon musk was undergoing a meltdown of sorts here or there. so it's going to be great talking to walter. there are so many times i wanted to call him and say, walter, what's going on? but i didn't want to be hundreds of his friends doing that. >> first, joining us now democratic senator chris coons of delaware, a member of the foreign relations and judiciary committees and shares the ethics

committee. senator coons also is a national cochair for president biden's reelection campaign. 9:03 eastern time is the moment flight 975 crashed into the south tower. we'll be taking that moment of silence live. >> we will. a lot of americans would like to know, are we safer today than we were 22 years ago? >> i think we are, but frankly one of the things we have to look back on is the trillions of dollars we spent over 20 years of war around the world, primarily in afghanistan and iraq, but in a dozen other countries where we took action in the war on terror. today, more people are killed in

terrorist actions in west africa than anywhere else in the world. we still have both isis in west africa and al qaeda and affiliated groups in a dozen countries across the continent. it deserves more of our focus. we are safer, i think, here at home than we've been in previous years, but we've got real challenges. we have challenges at home and abroad. president biden is just concluding a very successful trip to the g 20 summit in india, a visit in vietnam. he continues to strengthen our standing on the world stage and to reinvest in the united states, making our manufacturing, our science, our competitiveness stronger. so across the whole, i would say we are safer today than we've been in previous years. >> as has been the case over the past 21 years, we are now having the reading of the names from the many people who weren't alive when this happened.

it's so incredible. no student in high school, very few in college actually have any remembrance of that day. so september 11th is history to them. >> yeah. we're going to pause now and listen into the ceremonies, to these names of what happened in new york city and washington and shanksville, pennsylvania. >> a moment of silence. [ bell tolling ]

♪♪ >> continuing the reading of the names, we saw shots there of mayor adams and mayor bloomberg, of course, vice president harris also there, along with senator chuck schumer. mika, you look again at this event. this has been a part of our lives now for almost a quarter of a century. it is hard to even begin to fathom that. again, completely different world almost 25 years later.

>> so many different facets of the consequences, the after effects of 911 are seen in these really important remembrance ceremonies. there are women who lost husbands who were pregnant at the time when the planes hit, and those babies that were born, 9/11 babies, are now 22 years old. >> going to be graduating from college. the pain that was felt by the people of new york city, new jersey, long island, again, an extraordinary amount of pain. the city was ripped apart. it's just an unspeakable tragedy that nobody could imagine. 22 years later the city has strengthened, has moved on.

it's also created one of the most effective anti-terror units on the planet. >> no question there, joe. i covered the nypd for years while at the new york daily news. the nypd was at the forefront of their anti-terror efforts, often being the first line of defense, and teaming up with the federal government to prevent something like this happening again. they still do that work quietly to this day. obviously the world was remade that day. as you mentioned, the wars the united states engaged in afterwards, we still feel their aftershocks now. one of the things this president has done is to try to evoke that sense of unity and alliance at the forefront there, the only time article five of nato was ever invoked was back then. the first call the president

received was president putin. that has changed. in a g 20 where there are some unfriendly faces in that room, do you think he was able to make the case the united states and its allies, that's the best bet for the world as opposed to, say, rush, china or the rest? >> i think he was. after russia's brutal invasion of ukraine, the alliance that has sustained us, nato which came to our aid and our defense after 9/11 has pulled together to provide material, troops, to welcome millions of ukrainian refugees. many folks in congress question whether our partners and allies are doing enough, and the numbers bear that out. the 47 countries supporting ukraine have contributed as much in material and financial support as we have and they've beco welcomed millions more refugees.

the actions of president biden and that global coalition of 47 countries have shown in standing up to russian aggression and the conversation at the g 20 about including the african union and investing in the global south to weave the world together in a way that reflects our priorities, open economies, better labor and environmental standards and infrastructure. the point is he made a good case. we are at a hinge point in history again now in terms of where the world is turning. xi jinping in china is trying to offer a competitive alternative, a different vision for development and governance and the relationship between the individual and the state. i think president biden did a very strong job on the world stage at the g 20 this week. >> we have breaking news out of east asia this morning. as both north korea and the

kremlin have confirmed that kim jong-un is currently traveling to a city in russia's far east, where he will meet with president vladimir putin. the north korean leader's last trip outside his country was in 2019 to the same city he is headed to right now. talk about this growing alliance. >> vladimir putin is desperate. he's desperate for more equipment and support in his ongoing invasion, occupation and fight in ukraine. north korea has a very large arsenal of artillery, of material. so they may well make a devil's deal where russia agrees to provide more advanced technology to north korea as they struggle to figure out how to build a nuclear submarine, how to deliver icbms from the middle of the ocean, something kim jong-un is very eager to do as he expands his nuclear arsenal that

threatens japan, south korea, the united states, much of the region and the world. in exchange for that, putin may get access to significant stockpiles of artillery shells. what i eve heard is they're not the highest quality, but frankly putin is so desperate that he'll take them. i think this is another example where the administration has chosen to leak intelligence in advance of an event trying to deter them or at least raise the cost. they're not going to be able to meet in secret. it's something they only confirm because our intelligence services leaked it. it will bring a lot of attention here at the u.n. this coming week to the ways in which russia is going to likely be helping north korea evade sanctions that have been imposed for years by the vast majority of u.n. members and the u.n. security

council. >> we go from russian quality to north korean quality, not really the best direction for vladimir putin and his country. before i let you go, i understand why it's in vogue to talk about how we used to be together after september 11th and we aren't now. we read a statement and i think we saw chairman mccaul in the house of representatives talking about the need for us to be together. he said it about ukraine. been very supportive of ukraine and certainly president biden, where they align, but also saying we need to come together as a country. tommy tuberville needs to stop the nonsense. we need to focus on keeping our

military strong. i know there are a lot of squawkers out there, people like tommy tuberville, mtg, et cetera, et cetera, but as we look at the city skyline 22 years later, could you just talk to americans who think their government is so broken it can't get anything done and talk about republicans and democrats coming together for one bipartisan piece of legislation after another. i understand there are a lot of problems, but we've got the strongest economy in the world, the strongest military in the world, the best education system in the world, the best quality health care in the world. there are a lot of people left behind. we've got to bring more people into that health care. but the united states of america, you name it, the united states is more powerful than ever. politically we've got a lot of problems. but just talk about republicans

and democrats that have come together that have worked together that do put this country first every day when you're working in the senate with them. >> thank you, joe. what defines a nation is how they respond in moments of crisis and moments of challenge. 22 years ago as the twin towers were coming down, as the attack was unfolding, the average citizens who were the passengers on a flight headed towards washington, headed to hit either the capitol in which i serve or the white house, took matters into their own hands at the cost of their own lives and stopped that attack. thousands of police officers, of firefighters, of folks who were first responders here in manhattan and the boroughs rushed into the towers and were willing to give their lives for people they didn't know. they responded to this moment of challenge with service and sacrifice. in the weeks and months

afterwards, thousands and thousands of first responders and volunteers came here to new york city to respond to this crisis and to give of their time and their hearts. joe, i've met young americans around the world in our armed forces, folks who serve as diplomats or development professionals who were inspired by 9/11 to step forward and serve. our president continues in that spirit to call us together. in the last congress he signed into law the biggest bipartisan infrastructure bill we've seen since dwight eisenhower. the chips and science act is rebuilding advanced manufacturing and making us a stronger economy. i frankly wish everyone watching could have been in the room last week as all the critical leaders of the committees of the senate, republicans and democrats, spent an hour together with our national security advisor jake sullivan talking about the fight in ukraine. that was conversation of grown ups, focused on moving our country forward in a common and shared direction. we are getting good things done.

we do respect each other. we are able to serve our country together. i'm grateful that chairman mccaul, the house republican foreign affairs committee leader, is calling out senator tuberville. we need to find ways to support those who serve our nation here at home and abroad. >> support them, support their spouses, support their children, support them all. i just want to say this morning thank you so much for bringing up the heros of flight 93. you know, without getting too deep into the philosophical discussion, that's one of the things about the west, western civilization. you can go back to the march of the 10,000. you can look at what's happening in ukraine right now.

to fight a war from the bottom up, not top down like the russians. we let our ncos go out, think on their feet, make decisions, stay nimble, because it's american innovation in the best of times and worst of times. it always struck me when todd beamer and those people in the back of flight 93 said "let's roll" and went up with no guidance from anybody and they stormed the front of the plane and they took that plane down, because they knew it was going somewhere bad, to the capitol or the white house. and they decided not on my watch, not on my watch, and they sacrificed their lives so others may live. it's just the essence of the

american spirit that we want to encourage. you had people that said we'll sacrifice to save others and they did just that. it was an extraordinary moment. and it was while the attacks were going on, the morning of september 11th, america began its fight back, its counter terrorism fight back. it was done by citizens, not ordinary citizens, far from ordinary citizens like todd beamer, who decided they were not going to let the terrorists win. >> democrat senator chris coons of delaware, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," from electric vehicles to private space exploration to taking over twitter, elon musk

is one of the most controversial figures in the public eye today. but what motivates him? according to our next guest, he is driven by demons. biographer walter isaacson joins us next to discuss his highly anticipated new book "elon musk." we'll be right back. "elon musk." we'll be right back. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪i'm hearing different ways for me to screen for colon cancer.♪ ♪it's time to use my voice,♪ ♪i've got a choice, more than one answer.♪

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21 past the hour. ukrainian officials are furious with elon musk as new information comes to light about the billionaire's influence in their ongoing war with russia. in september of last year, musk reportedly stymied a ukrainian offensive against russian military ships in crimea by denying the ukrainians access to his starlink satellite network to prevent a drone attack on russia's naval fleet.

that revelation is from walter isaacson's latest biography titled "elon musk." he joins us now. >> thank you for being here. this is extraordinary. when you told me a couple years ago you were going to be writing this book on elon, i thought how is this going to work with all the news breaking? there are a thousand times i wanted to call you and say, what's going on here. i just didn't do it because i knew all your other friends were calling you and secondly you were in the middle of the book. so now's the time to talk. talk about this wild ride of writing a book about elon musk during the most volatile time of his life, at least publicly. talk about not only the challenges, but the rewards as an author that you got out of

that. >> first of all, he's been volatile his whole life. in 2018 he's going just as crazy at times as you see him in the past couple of years. when i started this book when we first talked about it, the guy who was bringing us into the era of the electric vehicles and the only people who could send american astronauts into space, good technology story. but he's secretly buying up twitter and going to hawaii on a two or three-night binge and deciding to take it over. it became a hell of a lot more roller coaster ride then. the dark strands in him as well as the competent strands are tightly woven together. >> let's talk about that. from your book, there appear to be two, three, four different types of elon.

like for instance when he made his decision on twitter, it was after he played some video game all night and just decided on a whim to buy twitter. you've got that guy contrasting with the thomas edison of our time or the steve jobs or whoever. talk about how those are woven together in his character. >> that's a great question, because he has so many personalities, almost like multiple personalities and is a bit like his father, whom he doesn't speak to now. his father is a jekyll and hyde and sometimes goes very dark. it happens to elon too. he'll go from being giddy or being in engineer mode and suddenly the clouds come. the amazing thing is, after he's gone dark and been demon-like and really tough on people, then he'll snap out of it.

i'll ask him, what was that about? and he hardly remembers it. there are many elon musks in this book. >> we could say the same thing about donald trump. there are many donald trumps too. the thing donald trump and elon musk share, and you point this out, is their fathers. donald trump's never said that, but if you spend any time around him, you realize if not terrorized by the memory of his father, his father hangs over him every day. these two guys, trump and musk, are a lot alike, and they both seemingly are haunted by emotionally abusive at the very least fathers. >> absolutely. one of the rules of a biographer of a powerful person, especially a guy, is it's sometimes all about dad. it's true whether it's anybody i've wherein about.

my very first book, i remember when you first started the show, was albert einstein. you were kind enough to have me on way back then. einstein had a tough childhood too, growing up jewish in germany with a father who'd gone bankrupt. i had a pretty easygoing childhood in new orleans, which is why i'll never shoot rockets to mars. but like obama writes in his memoirs, every great man, he says, is either driven to live up to the expectations of his father or to drive down the sins of his father. in musk you have a dark father still jangling in his head. >> what surprised you the most? any preconceived assumptions that were blown to bits or anything that you want to share on a personal level that you were sort of struck by?

>> yeah. there are a couple of things, some good things. for example, i was somewhat surprised by the intensity of his engineering focus. you'll see in the book sort of episode after episode of him figuring out why there's a methane leak or let's go to stainless steel for the cybertruck. i thought he had delegated all that to people. but, no, that's his best mode, is engineering. what surprised me is the messiness of his interpersonal life, his inability to deal with emotional things, the problems he has with the mothers of his children, whether it's his first wife or grimes or shivon zillis. it's a human emotion company that's trying to attract a good

advertising environment. that's why i think twitter was not a great idea. >> let's go to something else you discussed. i think you said elon musk and those around him think he may be on the spectrum. he may have asberger's. they'll say things and they don't mean to be difficult or rude. there's just a disconnect emotionally. it's almost like sometimes they have to read books to learn about certain human interactions. there are so many things he does that doesn't make sense. part of that may be because he's on the spectrum. i've got to say, if you're on the spectrum, the worst thing for you to buy is twitter, because it's not about engineering, it's not

reasonable, it's not rational. it's everything but. it's all about touch. >> you're right. he talks about, jokes about, is open about having asberger's. if you're on the autism spectrum, there are so many different variations of it. he shows many of those variations. it's not one thing. but in his particular case, having empathy and emotional relationships, that's not something that's encoded into him or that he does. he says he tried to learn i by reading books, but he's not good at that. so it makes him a jerk. there's a technical term that begins with "a" that they use sometimes. but it is partly because he lacks that feel for empathy, which is a real downside,

especially if you're going to buy a social network. >> let's talk about his approach to what's happening in ukraine. there's been some confusion as to what exactly he ordered with these star link communication satellites. there are times where he on twitter or x has regurgitated kremlin talking points and he's given license to people on his platform that do the same. how is he thinking about this conflict? >> you know, when the invasion first happens, it's amazing, all the satellites get knocked out except for star link. you have to ask, why is his the only one that's working? he sends 200, then a thousand star links so that the ukrainian military can operate and have

all the text messages between him and vice minister federov about how they would have been blown away at the beginning if they hadn't had star link. there's a scene in the book. i'd spent a week with him. i'm back in new orleans at my old high school watching a football game and my phone keeps going off. it was the night that the ukrainians were doing a sneak attack on the russian fleet in sebastopol. he told me he wasn't allowing star link to enable that. i got it slightly wrong. i thought he made the decision that night, but he said, no, previously they had geo fenced off crimea, but he didn't tell the ukrainians that, so they thought it was working there. that night they're sending him all these messages, all these text messages are in the book of saying you've got to let us use it in this fight against the russian fleet in sebastopol.

and he doesn't. he says no. at that point, i think he realizes he has too much power. i said have you talked to jake sullivan or general milley? that's when he decides he's going to sell some of these to the u.s. military and let the u.s. government determine how they're used. >> as you know, there's been some controversy with musk putting certain people back on twitter or now called x. the civil rights community, many of us are raised questions, including the anti-defamation league. he's now threatening to sue them saying they hurt his advertising dollars. is it him being on the spectrum and part of that bipolar, if i can use that term, kind of nature or is this guy a guy that torments division, even hate?

he's literally reinstating people who have been offensive to people of color, to women and others back on x or twitter. >> yes. it's a complex issue, which i don't particularly agree with him on things. i certainly think he's wrong to be attacking the adl, because that's not the problem with twitter. the problem he has with advertisers is they don't like being in an environment that you just described, that's toxic. so advertisers have backed off. it's not the fault of the adl. but you have to look at this balance that we have talked about so many times on this show, about how much of the aperture do you open of this hateful speech.

he definitely has not only opened it to more speech of people on the fringe and people who can be toxic at times, he's even sometimes engaged with them. he started it off saying we should open it up to more free speech, but freedom of speech doesn't mean we should amplify the haters. hopefully the ceo and himself will go back to saying we've got to not amplify people who are putting up really toxic and hateful things. >> i have so many questions. >> call me up. >> i'll call you up. i wanted you to compare steve jobs to elon musk, but in the little time we have left i'm going to ask you instead you've been around him for a couple of

years, what is the why? we all know what he does. but what is the why? what drives him? >> you know, when you've got demons in your head, sometimes you turn them into drive. he has a bit of a hero complex. he said that he read comic books as a kid over and over again i. they were weird, these heros. they were trying to save the world, but they wore their underpants on the outside. he told me over and over again i'm trying to get humans to mars, i'm trying to get sustainable energy, i'm trying to get a.i. safe. i actually do think that's the main thing that drives him. by the way, steve jobs was the greatest innovator of our time. elon musk is a great innovator. they deserve separate

biographies. >> the new biography "elon musk" is on sale tomorrow. "new york times" best-selling author walter isaacson, thank you very much. you need to come back and talk about this more. the book is fascinating. >> i am now free to give you a call on this topic. >> we have so much to ask. >> thank you so much. katty kay, i can't think of a more timely biography. the richest guy in the world, one of the most powerful guys in the world, to give insight on not only what he's doing that's hard to keep up with, but why he's doing it. >> yeah. i have to say if we had a bit more time with walter, i would have asked him whether it wouldn't have been better to wait a little bit longer and write this biography more toward the end of elon musk's life. because elon musk is changing.

you pointed it out at the beginning of that interview. the last couple of years have been particularly tumultuous, whether around twitter or ukraine. you wonder whether the elon musk we see today, certainly not the same as the elon musk we saw ten years ago and whether it's going to be the same as the elon musk we see in five years' time. is he starting to go more like his dad, to a more dark place? i don't think the story of elon musk has ended yet. >> it's fascinating what walter said about the satellites. by the way, as much of a free marketer as i am, my question is if the united states and other countries are upset that elon musk is doing this or that with his own satellites, well, why didn't we and why didn't other countries come up with their own satellite system.

it's fascinating that musk even understood at that point, i've got too much power here, i don't want to be making these decisions and turning some of it over to the united states and other governments. >> we saw attorney blinken being grilled about that this weekend. was elon musk trying to undermine u.s. policy in ukraine and should there be some kind of sanctions against him? why was he in that position and why was the u.s. government not in the position to be controlling what are american military assets now in ukraine, and ought we have the ability to dictate how far the ukrainians can go with them? in washington they just marked the very moment that the pentagon was hit. american airlines flight 77 crashed into the pentagon, killing 189 people 22 years ago today. there are remembrance ceremonies across the country right now, in new york, in shanksville,

pennsylvania, and also at the pentagon. joining us now, someone who has played a key role in u.s. counterterrorism efforts at home and abroad, former cia officer mark polymore rop lus. >> thank you so much for joining us. mark milley talked about what happened at the pentagon that day. you know, this war on terror has made fools of all of us. things constantly seem to be shifting back and forth, afghanistan is a good war, iraq is a bad war, then afghanistan is a bad war and we retreat out of iraq. isis filled the void. we have to go back. you've seen what happened in afghanistan, chaos in afghanistan. so here we are 20 years after

the invasion of iraq. i asked richard engel, who rightly was searing in his news coverage of what happened in iraq, he didn't tear up, but he was close to it looking around at young people in baghdad going, look, these kids are sitting around talking about their future, they have hope, they have things that i never saw 20 years ago. you're like, wait, that's iraq? i thought that was supposed to be afghanistan. meanwhile, in afghanistan we retreat again, 65, 70% of americans wanted us out of there just like they wanted us out of iraq in 2010 and it goes sideways. bad things happening in afghanistan. it does seem that it is kind of hard to keep track of what's up and what's down and what's getting worse and what's getting better. why don't you tell us specifically about afghanistan?

what's the situation now? >> i think that afghanistan is something to be really concerned about. if you think back to the rise of al qaeda, this occurred with the taliban coming into power in ungoverned spaces. does that sound familiar? because it should. without u.s. boots on the ground, even residual special operations or intelligence personnel without an afghan partner force, without intelligence surveillance coverage, we don't really know what's going on in afghanistan. the concern is that's the kind of breeding ground for terrorism. there was the intelligence community that did a brief last week and said they were confident that al qaeda was not reconstituting. i was skeptical of that because that might be a singular point in time, but that's not in the medium or the long-term. again, we have to have that constant resolve. that was poster put up at cia

headquarters that said every day is september 12th. that's the notion that you have to have vigilance and resolve. that's difficult. i think americans would accept it in small numbers. but i worry about afghanistan being a breeding ground for terrorists. >> americans have understood it in south korea, in germany and places where we were after world war ii. you know, we have paid the price in taking every troop out of iraq in 2010, 2011 after things had turned around there significantly and isis came in and it was hell on earth, same thing with afghanistan. i have said on this show without apology, i think joe biden has done a tremendous job in foreign policy in europe, with ukraine, in asia.

he's done what the past four presidents have promised to do and could never pull it off. in afghanistan, i will forever be asking the question why didn't we keep the air force base and launch things from there? we could have secured that location and kept 2500 people there. as you know, whether we're in syria where 2500 people push back assad, the russians, iran, isis, destroy isis, afghanistan, 2500 people stop a meltdown. they leave and americans have to figure out, you want everybody to come home? okay, well the world turns sideways and goes to hell really quick. those 2500 people leave afghanistan, things got bad quickly, overnight.

>> let me add to that. again, we don't have intelligence officers on the ground running assets and we don't have that isr capability. here's the key piece. we used to have the afghan intelligence service as a counter terrorism partner. our counterterrorism partner now is the taliban where it is almost inconceivable to many of us that we are actually with a terrorist group to report on other terrorist groups. we're hanging on by a thread doing that. that shows you where we are now in our coverage in afghanistan. we actually have to work with the taliban on counter terrorism. amazing that we have come to this place. >> you've lost a lot of dear friends, a lot of close friends.

yet one of the most frustrating things i would guess is nobody ever reports about the bombs that didn't go off. i tell you what, we can report about what the cia and what the intel community has done over the past 22 years as far as keeping terrorism away from our homeland. nobody believed that was possible on september 12th. our biggest fears now come from the inside, internal domestic terror attacks. talk about 22 years and give us the good news about the intel community. there were some screwups, no doubt about it. there always are with every agency, with every outfit. talk about what the cia, what our intel community got right. >> there was a great deal of anger, of guilty after 9/11. so it turned into incredible

resolve. i think about friends of mine on the first teams flying into afghanistan in october one month after 9/11. they thought they would never come home. i think about friends of mine who tragically lost their lives and you see on the memorial war at cia headquarters. i think about a friend of mine who spent ten years of his life chasing bin laden. that's it. he went back and forth to afghanistan and pakistan over and over. there's incredible pride in the sense that there was not a second attack. after 9/11 we all thought al qaeda was plotting to hit it again, and they did not. i spent a couple of years away from home. there are a lot of other people who are heros and did much more than i did. of course also a shout to the u.s. military who did some incredible things. americans sleep safer today because of a lot of the work that was done. we have to look back and reflect

today on 9/11 on what was done in our community over the last 22 years. >> national security and intelligence analyst, former cia officer mark polymore rop louse, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," the latest on the search for an escaped inmate in pennsylvania. where police say he's been spotted again and what he looks like now. s been spotteagd ain and what he looks like now

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test. reverend al, we told you about the vice president of the united states, the mayor of new york city, former mayor bloomberg being there. also former mayor rudy giuliani who in the days after 9/11, a lot of people calling him america's mayor. there was a couple of days where george w. bush didn't seem as sure-footed to a lot of americans as they wanted to see.

rudy giuliani stepped into that void. a lot of americans believed he had done something extraordinarily well. 22 years later. look at that decline, precipitous decline, the tragedy of rudy giuliani. you just see the effects of donald trump on people. he's destroyed so many lives. why don't we just start with the life of the guy once called america's mayor by "time" magazine. >> i think probably the biggest casualty in the destructive behavior of donald trump is rudy giuliani. giuliani and i certainly have been political arch enemies for 30 years. it's unbelievable to think of where he was 22 years ago and today. i thought he wasn't there today. i'm told he was there on the sidelines. he would have been front and center had it not been for his feelings of support for donald trump. i think one of the under lying

stories of today in terms of the trump effect is rudy giuliani not being front and center, not standing there with bloomberg and the vice president, and all of it because he hitched his wagon, for whatever reason, trying to be relevant to a man who destroys everybody that's in his way. it's really, really, for someone who always fought giuliani, it's a stark reminder of the fall and the reason for the fall of who was america's mayor on this day 22 years ago. >> a guy who was considered an american hero, now, mika, being close to disbarred and bankrupt. >> we will continue to follow that story. we want to update you, though, on the earthquake in morocco. the death toll from the 6.8

magnitude wake has reached nearly 2,500 victims with another 2,400 injured. nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez has the latest on the search and rescue efforts. >> reporter: this morning the desperate search for survivors entering a critical phase. rescue teams from morocco and around the world racing to make every minute count. it's now been more than 48 hours since this 6.8 magnitude quake struck south of marrakech, the most powerful tremor in this region for more than 100 years, sending locals and tourists alike running for their lives in the streets of the historic city. this wedding singer cut off mid-song. >> i was petrified. some people were just crying and screaming. >> reporter: the worst of the devastation remote villages in the mountains where adobe homes

couldn't withstand the quakes. moments of joi when survivors were found in the rubble. but also heartbreak when rescuers arrive too late. >> working in these situations, search and rescue is of paramount importance. >> we traveled up a winding road blocked in place by boulders. >> reporter: this village was home to 3,000 people. locals say at least 40 have been killed. that's more than 1% of the population that lost their lives. among them, this man's three daughters, baby son and wife. i'm all alone now, he says. i had a home and a family. now i have nothing. this i.d. card the only photograph he has left the u.n. says 300,000 people across the region were impacted by the quake. in small villages and major cities, many families are still sleeping in the streets,

terrified that aftershocks could yet bring their homes crashing down. >> we'll be following the recovery efforts there. also, an update on that convicted killer at large in pennsylvania. the search is intensifying. he has shaven his face now, changed his appearance, but still at large and even further from where he escaped, looking a lot different. we'll continue to follow that story as well. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. er a quick final break.

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so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. hello. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york city on this september 11th. in just moments we expect a moment of silence in lower mann marking the fall of the south tower of the world trade center 22 years ago. america remembering the nearly 3,000 souls who lost their lives in this attack on this country. you can see them there reading some of the names of those victims. with us from ground zero is nbc news correspondent rehema ellis. rehema, as we await this moment of silence, it's hard to believe it's been 22 years.

the ones there that day participated in a ceremony, some of them now adults. talk about the remembrance happening right now. >> reporter: it is heartfelt and emotional every single year for these families who come and remember and honor their loved ones, ana. it's something that people say how long can you do this. i think the whole point is they want to never forget what happens here. [ bell tolling ]

. >> gilbert, franco grenada. >> tell us more about today's hop orgs. >> reporter: for sure. it becomes even more poignant, ana, when you realize in less than 30 minutes from now the north tower collapses as a result of the terrorists flying those planes into the world trade center. i spoke with a young man, 28 years owed. he's now an officer with the new york city pole