you heard karine jean-pierre, the press secretary, saying they have to do their constitutional duty on some of these issues. i don't think that's going to change. i think that's one of the ways they see it, as making sure they're hands off in the blame game at the end of the day. >> so far, that approach has largely worked. we will stay oint. white house correspondent for "politico" and co-author of "the play book," eugene daniels, thank you for being with us. thank you to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, september 12th. the republican controlled house returns to capitol hill today with not a lot of time to hammer out a new budget. now, new reporting suggests the gop majority seems to be more focused on launching an impeachment inquiry into president biden than preventing a shutdown of the federal

government. >> well, well, well, lots of luck, fellas. >> nothing's changed. >> nothing's changed. way to play right into swing voters' worst instincts about you. ding, ding, ding. >> okay, check. >> we have a loser. plus, russian president vladimir putin is meeting today with another dictator in an effort to secure more supplies for his military. >> wow, speaking of losing. >> fantastic. >> yes. i mean, hashtag losing. we are doing so bad, our military sucks so bad, we have to ask north korea for their help. also this morning, we have two republican presidential candidates joining us. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson and former new jersey governor chris christie will be our guests this morning. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for

bbc news, katty kay. "washington post"'s eugene robinson. and senior columnist at "the daily beast," matt lewis is with us this morning. good to have you all. >> you know, willie -- >> feels like school's back. >> when i was growing up in upstate new york, back in the late '70s, i'd sit and listen to a.m. radio all night. i'd listen to wabc george michael in new york city. >> sure. >> i'd listen to cklw. i was in upstate new york, so i could get anything. i could get the east coast. i could get the midwest. but it was a wonderful life, but it was really cold there. >> dark. >> dark early. >> dark like 3:00. >> dark at like 3:00, 3:30, 4:00. >> did a lot of track meets there. >> they'd do weather. it'd be, like, minus 12 degrees. you know, every time i got sad -- >> wait, were katty and i matching?

>> i don't know. i'm telling a story. >> this is breaking news. >> we can get to that afterwards. >> okay. >> anyway, willie, it'd be, like, minus 12. >> okay. >> i'd be depressed. >> that's sad. >> up there in big flatts, new york. >> sure. >> we're living in the coldest place on earth. then i get my radio dial, and i always go to wls. i'd always feel better because it was not minus 20 degrees in chicago. i'd say, well, it could be worse, right? well, as a lifelong atlanta falcons fan. >> oh. >> there it is. >> every time i hit the depths of despair, i would say, at least, at least -- >> god, this is a long windup. i want to know if katty and i are matching. >> i'm not a new york jets fan. the most jets thing ever happened to the new york jets. that's like saying the most mets

thing ever happened to the new york mets. this is, like, seriously being sent straight to hell and the devil says, "no, no, no, no. there's actually a place below here you've never heard of, and we're going to send you down there." but, no, it's, like, the jetsiest thing ever happened. somehow, some way, a miracle finish at the end. >> just an absolute gut punch for new york jets fan. i say this as a new york giants fan, it was brutal to watch last night. so they get aaron rodgers in the offseason from the packers. huge trade acquisition. >> franchise. >> sign him to a two-year contract last month, and he is going to save the franchise. haven't been to the super bowl since 1968. he is going to change all that. they have a good defense, like their head coach. four plays, four plays into his first game with the new york jets last night against the

bills, he goes down with an achilles injury, likely, most people believe, he'll have an mri today, out for the season, done. they're right back where they started with zach wilson, the number one draft pick of a couple years ago who they grave up on and brought in rodgers, he's now under center. now, they did win the game because their defense is excellent and they had a walk-off punt return in overtime to win the game. but completely overshadowed by the loss of aaron rodgers, who we don't know for sure, but it is an achilles. we all know what that means. likely out for the season. jonathan lemire. >> i will say, jonathan lemire, that their defense looked great. their running game, hill looked good. they got a good running attack. they actually, for the first time in quite some time, looks like the jets have a pretty good all around team. >> they do. they were one piece away, and that one piece was aaron

rodgers. and that piece is gone. they surely will try to trade for a veteran quarterback as the year goes on, but no one, aaron rodgers is a future hall of famer, even though his play has slipped a little bit the last couple years. he was going to be the franchise. the jets have become a cursed, tortured franchise for decades. there was more expectation and hype about last night and the start of this season than perhaps any year in franchise history, with the possible exception of 1999, when they were considered a super bowl favorite, too. their star quarterback in the first game of the season tore his achilles tendon. it's the exact same injury. it is devastating. we'll find out later today, but head coach robert saleh said after the game last night they did believe it was an achilles, which would end his season. rodgers, who turns 40 later this year, we wonder if we'll ever see him on the football field again. an utter gut punch for the fan

base. >> turns 40 in a couple months. he went down and went, uh-oh, rolled his ankle. when he got up and sat back down, a guy who doesn't get injured a lot, who doesn't like to come out of games, he knew something was up there, joe. he sat down and was carted off. he's in a boot. we expect to hear today after that mri, that the news is not good for aaron rodgers and the jets fans who have been suffering only since 1968. >> only since '68. only since joe, willie, took him to the '69 super bowl and won in spectacular fashion, as mika reminds me. 16-7. >> speaking of fashion -- >> over the baltimore colts. >> the second pressing question here is not just where did i listen to a.m. radio growing up in the '70s, but do mika and katty match? >> yes. you bought me this dress, then i texted her and told her to buy the same dress. >> oh. >> yup. she got a different color, but there we go.

>> mika, i've got the same color, it's just the lighting in this studio -- >> you do not. >> -- is not as beautiful as the lighting in your studio perhaps. >> whoa. that's really different. >> i promise, i swear to god, it is exactly the same dress. they only do it in this blue. >> there you go. >> there we go. >> match day. >> match day! on to the news on match day, new polling showing a major drop in support for former president donald trump in iowa. yet no other single candidate is filling the void. in the latest emerson college survey out this morning, 49% of likely caucus voters say trump is their pick for 2024, down 13 points since may. the former president still leads florida governor ron desantis by 35 points. the governor has also seen his support fall six points since earlier this year. south carolina senator tim scott, former u.n. ambassador

nikki haley, entrepreneur vivek ramaswamy and governor doug burgum all gained points but are still behind. the trends are not a good one. >> again, gene robinson, we have to keep saying it because, well, it's true, it looks like trump is the dominant figure. looks like he is going to win this thing. it is still really early. again, john mccain at this point in 2007 was on his way out. we were talking about rudy giuliani going up against hillary clinton. republicans still have several months to figure out whether they want to vote for their nominee, a guy who will probably be convicted by the convention, a guy who stole nuclear secres. >> says so. >> right. a guy who stole military assessments, to show what america's weaknesses were.

a guy who has been called a rap rapist by a new york judge and liable for sexual assault by a jury of his own peers. go down the line. if republicans still have a little bit of time to figure out if this is who they want representing them moving forward, you know, trump has to be the favorite. i still don't think it's a slam dunk because there's a lot of ground to cover between now and then. it doesn't get any better for donald trump. >> no, it shouldn't get any better for him. at some point, he may be, you know, the candidate. people will be asked to vote for somebody who is actually, at that moment, on trial. again, what does that do to his vote? it's unclear. so, yes, it is definitely still early. it's not as early as it was, you know,. these months do sort of tick down, and we're going to get to the iowa caucuses, and we're

going to see whether the support actually translates into votes or caucus votes, whatever they do at those caucuses. it's kind of like voting. look, donald trump is still the favorite, and you almost call him the prohibitive favorite to be the republican candidate. but what i'm really interested in is desantis' fall, the rise slightly from the low single digits to the slightly higher single digits of people like nikki haley and tim scott. what happens if one of them sort of vaults ahead of desantis and starts getting a serious look at the potential alternative to trump? is that a possibility? is it possible they look at them and find them more, you know -- one of them more attractive as a

potential alternative to trump than desantis, who obviously is not gaining traction? >> yeah. >> so we'll see. but right now, where's the smart money going to go? it's going to go on trump. >> part of that reason why, willie, is the contender, who is going to be the contender? trump is very fortunate that his number two guy is ron desantis, a guy who has just ran a terrible campaign. he is a terrible candidate. he has the grace and feel of elon musk. people have been telling me that even before his campaign. they said, listen, everybody, these fundraisers, they want to give him money, they obviously haven't spent five minutes alone with him in a room. he's just not good with people. >> no. >> i heard it over and over and over again. >> you can see in videos. >> you can see it. it seems every week, there is another huge republican donor who is saying, "listen, i'm conservative, but this guy is a nut. his six-week abortion ban, no

way." so they're talking about pulling their money from him. part of the problem is, right now is, you've got a field that has a really weak number two who is going to keep falling, just like trump is falling. the question is, can anybody step up to be donald trump's main challenger? seems to me the same question we were asking in 2016, we're asking the same question eight years later. >> the gulf this time is so wide between donald trump and the rest of the field, that nikki haley, for example, has a good debate a couple weeks ago, does well, establishment republicans say, "oh, i think maybe it's her and not ron desantis. she seems to be the adult in the room on that stage," and she's still in mid to high single digits depending on the poll you look at. it is a wide lead, matt lewis, not clear that any of this legal trouble that donald trump finds himself in, that we're going to talk more about here in a minute, does anything to his detriment.

yes, he is down a little bit in iowa, but his lead has gone from, what, 42 to 35, so the opposition scored a late touchdown to cut the lead to 35. do you see anything that cuts into his advantage here in this field? >> no. i mean, obviously, i think if you're a betting person, you bet on trump. i think what you -- you can start to imagine a scenario. that's what you have to do. you have to use your imagination to imagine a scenario where trump loses. i think what you would have to imagine is, number one, there's not an election, not a primary election day, not a national election. so you have these flukey states like iowa and new hampshire. the first step is trump has to lose them both, right? that could happen. again, these are flukey states. iowa goes for people like mike huckabee and rick santorum and

ted cruz. that could happen again. the fact that donald trump is currently leading there by wide margins is important, but i don't think it's -- i've seen leads like that collapse in iowa, so that's step one. then we move to new hampshire. another flukey state. sit possible that new hampshire decides to deliver a blow to donald trump? then it becomes dynamic, and that is the hope. again, i think this is borderline fantastical, but then the electability thing becomes a question. right now, republicans don't care about electability. they think anybody can beat joe biden, and they really like donald trump. but what happens if trump were to lose those first two states, then we have him being in court. you have to really use your imagination, but there is a scenario, albeit a long shot, where this collapses and donald trump is not the nominee.

>> for now, it's not collapsing. maybe that changes when he's sitting inside a courtroom or the heat is turned up even further. we'll see. meanwhile, in washington, the house of representatives returns to the capitol today with a busy to-do list. speaker kevin mccarthy, though, reportedly set to endorse an impeachment inquiry into president biden. punchbowl news reports, mccarthy is planning to tell house republicans that launching an impeachment inquiry is the logical next step in the probe of the president and his son, hunter biden. mccarthy and the house leadership have a closed door session scheduled for thursday morning, reportedly to receive an update on the investigations by jim jordan and house oversight committee chair james comer. that's according to punchbowl news. it writes, quote, mccarthy plans to say the two chairs have uncovered enough information that necessitates the house formalize an impeachment inquiry in order to obtain the biden's bank records and other

documents. jonathan lemire, looks like he is going to do it. he's been flirting with it, talking about it all summer according to punchbowl news this morning, he is going to authorize an impeachment inquiry against president biden. that inquiry, so far, has shown no connection to president biden. it's been all about hunter biden. the hope is if they open it up with more documents, perhaps they'll find something. as james comer said himself, a lot of smoke here, no fire yet. >> yeah. so far, they've found no evidence. we should state that plainly at the top. the house comes back today. mccarthy spent the last six weeks vacillating as to whether or not he wanted to do this, but the pressure has mounted. the pressure from former president trump. the pressure from members of the far right. in fact, matt gaetz is supposed to deliver a speech on the house floor, basically denouncing mccarthy and threatening his removal or subtly suggesting he could go. there is a sense that mccarthy is trying to placate the forces who are unhappy with him about the debt ceiling deal, unhappy about the spending bills he needs to get done here to keep

the government open, and he is trying to throw them a bone by suggesting, we'll go down this road to impeachment inquiry. katty, there's a sense with people i talk to in washington, if they go impeachment inquiry, they'll go impeachment. the white house is preparing. they don't want that, thinking it'll be time consuming and terrible. they also think it'll political backfire on the republicans. it is not clear that mccarthy can actually get enough votes to make any of this happen. republicans, moderate republicans who won biden districts are really expressing worry about this. what do you think? can mccarthy get there? >> well, when you've only got a five-vote margin, you need every single vote you can get. if you are a republican who is up for re-election in 2024 in one of those districts in the country that joe biden won and you've got to appeal to people in your district who are more centrist, more independent, who think this is a waste of time in terms of government resources, then it is going to be difficult. of course, you know the war room the white house set up is going to do everything they can to

paint this and target those specific voters to say, look, this is what the ultra maga republican party is now doing with your time and money up on capitol hill. there is nothing here, and they're wasting your time. that would perhaps swing the house back to the democrats. that's what they would hope. but, you know, when these things are opened, you just don't know where they're going to go, right? they do get broad, and it is a risk for the white house, which is why they're going to put all the resources they can into this war room. they've been preparing to tackle this. >> gene robinson, though, does it not just play into swing voters, disgruntled republicans, independents' worst instincts about the crack pots that are in the house of representatives, mainly on the back bench, but the crack pots who control kevin mccarthy? you know, you're talking about

january -- so if you're a swing voter and you didn't vote for donald trump in 2000, but in '22, you decided to vote for a republican in your district for a little balance. you have a house that republicans have stood in the way of january 6th investigations. you have house republicans that are talking about getting rid of -- or going in and calling the january 6th rioters and insurrectionists who ultimately were responsible for the killing of four cops -- ask their families, they'll tell you that -- you're calling them political prisoners and calling for their amnesty. you're calling for the defunding of the ukrainians to let vladimir putin roll in and do whatever he wants to do. you're talking about just the craziest stuff. now, they're talking about impeaching joe biden just because the crack pots on the back bench are calling for it.

again, as katty said, those republicans that won seats that biden also won, they've got to know, if this goes down, republicans will not be in charge of the house next session. >> no. yeah, i think this is -- an impeachment inquiry will be basically curtains for those republicans who won in districts that joe biden won, i think. that's the balance of the house. if they go down, then the house goes back to democratic hands, full stop. look, this makes the maga base happy. this perhaps keeps kevin mccarthy's job for a while. but it turns off independents, and it is going to make democrats and democratic leaning independents rally around joe

biden. it's just going to do that. it's going to be a kind of jolt of energy for the democratic side, energy fueled by outrage, that in the long run is not good for the republican party and its prospe prospects, i believe. but it looks like he is going to go there, and i think he is going to go there because i think he thinks he's out of a job if he doesn't. >> yeah. and you look, again, mika, the question is, how much can these republican swing voters, independents take? you have january 6th. you've got the apologies for january 6th by the republican house. you've got them talking about these people that killed cops, calling them -- again, if you don't think so, ask the family, okay? ask the family, who killed the cops? they'll tell you it was the rioters that donald trump whipped into a frenzy and sent to the capitol. you've got abortion, an issue

that's going to be, again, once again, as it was in '22, a huge issue in '24. you've got a federal judge declaring donald trump to be a rapist by any standard definition of how we and institutions define rape. now, you've got an impeachment simply because the craziest people on the back benches of the republican party are demanding kevin mccarthy call for an impeachment. again, this is the white house's dream. >> right. it is confusing if you are a real republican, where you go, because this is not the republican party as we once knew it. matt lewis, you have a piece called, "kevin mccarthy's only weapon is to be huhumiliated." since taking over the house in

january, mccarthy has been surprisingly resilient and effective. but with congress back from august recess, mccarthy now faces what may be the greatest challenge of his political career. the republican-led house has to pass a spending package between now and september 30th, or risk a government shutdown. the gop's right flank wants cuts and concessions that gop moderates and mainstream conservatives view as un unachievable, ill advised and politically toxic. when these demands are predictably not met, it seems more likely than not that freedom caucus members who seem to be itching for a fight could bring a motion to vacate the chair, which would force a vote on removing mccarthy. remember, he cut that deal. >> where does the biden white house go to send the check as far as a thank you for them doing that? >> as long as mccarthy is willing to endure the humiliation in pursuit of his only true goal, remaining speaker, he will likely survive.

again, at some point, the government must be funded, but how and when? we are left with more questions than answers. the most likely scenario seems to be a huge s-show that is embarrassing for mccarthy and the gop, but ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things. but that's just my best guess. buckle up. we're about to enter into the land of the unknown. like we already haven't in so many ways. >> yeah. matt, again, though, this is a group of people who, like donald trump, are just thinking five minutes ahead. they have no grand plan, no grand strategy. >> five seconds ahead. >> shutting down the federal government is going to be like what we heard about the debt ceiling. everybody was screaming and yelling. i said, "they're going to fund it, they never let america default on their debt." we've already been through it. i've been through in 1995, '96,

i think, a government shutdown. i can tell you, it doesn't end well. again, they're too stupid, i guess, to think more than five minutes ahead of time. i know there are a lot of good republicans, like you know, in the house caucus that's going, "man, are they really that desperate to be in the minority again?" again, you go down the list of things. i mean, that list, i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing nuclear secrets. i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing secret war plans to invade iraq. i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing an assessment to show america's weaknesses. then add abortion on top of that. then add all the chaos of january 6th on top of that. then add all these people in the house that kevin mccarthy says he basically owes his speakership to, saying that the people that killed cops are political prisoners. that people whose family think they killed cops are political

prisoners. what does that do to a republican in the swing district in new york that won in the district that joe biden won in? >> yeah, that's what kevin mccarthy is contending with, right? he's got basically a five-seat house majority, and you have many, many kind of moderate republican mainstream conservatives who want to get re-elected next year, and then you have, you know, 20 to 40, depending on how they fall, but a minority of more kind of right-wing freedom caucus republicans, and you have to have pretty much all of them. you can lose -- if you're kevin mccarthy, you can lose four out of your entire republican conference. so he is really being squeezed, and they are going to force him to jump through hoops. for me, the real question is, the republicans, the freedom

caucus, the folks on the right who, right now, are pushing kevin mccarthy, are they negotiating -- is this a negotiation? is this an opening bid? it's not just impeachment that they want of joe biden. they want things like, they want to make sure we're not giving ukraine a blank check. what does that mean? i'm not sure. do they want to end ukraine funding or just want to do a better job of keeping track of the funds? they want to do things like stopping the weaponization of the department of justice and the fbi. do they want to defund the quote, unquote, deep state, or is this just a negotiation to cut spending to return, you know, spending levels back to 2022? if it's the latter and this is just a negotiation, it is possible that kevin mccarthy can work out a deal. i'm just not sure that's the case. i think it is much more likely than not that we have a government shutdown, and i think that it is increasingly likely

that kevin mccarthy is either going to have to do something such as launch this impeachment probe and probably give more concessions, or that there will be a motion to vacate and he will have to stand again for -- the good news for mccarthy, as i noted in the piece, is that he is shameless. i think he managed to endure humiliation in january and become speaker. he could possibly pull off the same maneuver here. but, again, this is a lot of wasted energy. it's the republican party making trouble for themselves, and i just don't see an exit plan whereby they end up better off than they are today. >> there's never an exit plan. willie, the thing is, if you're kevin mccarthy, let me be very careful how i say this, i would not use initials, but i would say f-a and f-o. you can figure that out at home.

vacate the chair, i'm fine with that. you know what i'm going to do? i'll be outside watching a baseball game while you guys try to find somebody that can get 218 votes, because you're not going to be able to find it. come get me in a couple of days when you find out what a fool you've made of yourself. i mean, that's the thing. there is no backup plan. they already tried to find somebody to take kevin mccarthy's place. >> yeah. >> the mainstream republicans, they won't say, let's get a crazy son of a bitch to drive us over the cliff. no one is getting 218 votes for that. kevin mccarthy should stop being a coward and tell them what i just said, but i can't really say on tv. >> okay. >> well -- >> i didn't say it. >> remember the votes again and again and again, the extreme right republicans and the maga republicans, they were going to put somebody else in there who was never going to get to 218.

the question matt kind of gets at, which is interesting to me is, where does this unhealthy relationship end? >> right. >> if this small group of republicans says, "you owe us your job, kevin mccarthy. you can take you out as fast as we put you in there. give us this," where do those list of demands end? we want an impeachment inquiry. he goes, "okay, i guess i don't want to be run out of my job. you can have it." they can ask for anything theoretically, because they'll say, "we'll get rid of you as quickly as you put you in there." >> senior columnist at "the daily beast", matt lewis, thank you for generating a great conversation this morning. >> great conversation. ahead on "morning joe," the latest on donald trump's growing legal troubles as his authorities launch a new effort to get the judge in his federal elections case to step aside. >> yeah, and i'm going to build a rocket ship to mars. plus, search and rescue efforts continue in morocco this morning following a devastating earthquake there. it comes amid new questions

about why the country appears reluctant to accept foreign aid. >> they're only letting three, four countries in to help. they need all hands in morocco right now. the suffering is just terrible there. also ahead, minority leader mitch mcconnell urges skeptical republicans to continue supporting ukraine amid the ongoing war with russia. we'll show his remarks from the senate floor. also this morning, we'll be joined by two republican presidential candidates. former governors chris christie and asa hutchinson. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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we're about two weeks away from the next republican primary debate, and some candidates are still trying to meet the rnc's requirements. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson is one of them. he's now looking to boost his standing, expanding the states he will travel to in the coming weeks. that includes north carolina, georgia and texas. joining us now, republican presidential candidate, former governor of arkansas, asa hutchinson. good to have you on the show. >> governor, thanks so much for being with us. behind you, the united states capitol. you have served well -- you have served there. i want to ask you about washington, d.c. right now. this is a little off. >> is this off topic? >> well, it's off political topic. it's not about trump and not getting to the next debate.

>> refreshing. >> it's about an issue, and it's crime. i know republicans have loved to say crime only happens in democratic cities. that's not true. it happens in, you know -- the worst crime cities were in louisiana and mississippi. happens in florida, jacksonville, et cetera, et cetera. i want to talk about the city you're in right now. headline in "the washington post," "shaken washington copes with surging violence: this is not normal." "the washington times" talking about the people, the young kids that have come to work on the hill that are getting beaten up, stabbed, having their -- you know, getting assaulted, getting robbed. house committee is actually having to warn staffers about crime rates soaring in the nation's capital. governor, governor, it's not just the big democratic cities that are out of control. you have monroe, louisiana. you've got, you know, bessemer,

alabama. you have jacksonville, florida, out of control. what do we do? what do we do to turn crime rates back to where they've been since 2020, back to where they were in 2019? how do we get there? >> well, and you're right on the importance of this issue. i was in georgia yesterday, and they're not asking me about trump's legal issues. a single mom was asking me about, what does it take to give my child a safe environment? that's what they are concerned about in the schools but also on our streets. it's not just a big city issue because we see fentanyl in our rural cities. we see the challenge of the smash and grab that is primarily in the inner cities. but we're watching it from across the country, and we're saying, this does not represent the best of america. it's not the rule of law. there's a simple solution here, and that is enforce the law.

whenever we see a flagrant disregard of the law, whether it is violence and there is not a follow-up enforcement and a toughness there, then you're going to see this continue because they're just seeing a disrespect. it's close to anarchy, and it starts with the president and his leadership and saying, "we're not going to be funding places that are not endorsing the law." that is critical that we do this. you're right on target on the importance of this issue. >> well, there's a quote in "the washington post" article that says, from a person whose neighborhood is wrecked with crime, "there are no consequences." governor, i've got to tell you, 95% of americans are outraged when they see these scenes of people breaking in to shopping malls and stores and just

stealing thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of property from the owners of those stores, or people in new york city that can't even go to a rite aid and get toothpaste because it's all boxed up. i'm sorry. i understand that everybody wants to talk about the underlying issues, and i want to talk about the underlying issues that lead to poverty generally, but we have to first make the streets safe while we're doing that. and for the people that -- >> washington is -- >> for the people who say cops don't keep us safe, those are people that live in rich areas or upper middle class areas. you talk to working class people and you talk to the truly disadvantaged, they'll say, "i want more cops on the street to keep my kids safe when they're walking to school, and i want more cops in my kids' school to keep them safe."

>> absolutely. that is why as governor of arkansas, we gave our men and women in blue astipend, just to say, "we appreciate you." we raised the pay of our state police because it is critical for the recruitment of our police officers and to showcase we're backing them up. then, whenever you're talking about the consequences, that is absolutely correct. the consequences should not come two years down the road. the consequences should not come while they're released on parole and they commit another crime, then they're arrested and put in jail, then it is another year before they're brought to justice. we have to reform our justice system. i know a lot of attention is at the federal level, but we need to make our system of justice work at every level so that it is meaningful, there are

consequences, and law enforcement has to understand that we're going to back them up if they enforce the law. whenever you see our businesses that are pulling out of so many cities because of the smash and grab, they're having to tell their employees -- or they shouldn't be telling their employees this, but, "no consequences. you don't chase them. you don't try to arrest them." there has to be those consequences, and it starts at our local communities. the public needs to stand up and say, "this is unacceptable in our community. this nation is founded on the rule of law." as a former federal prosecutor, i see the importance of that every they. >> governor, good morning. it's great to have you back on the show. awful lot of republicans happy that you're in the race speaking truth every time you step out, particularly about donald trump. but they're worried about how much longer you may be around. there's another debate coming up in two weeks at the reagan

library out in california. are you confident you'll be on that stage? >> well, i am, but the key is getting good polling information. you know, i've made one national poll at 3%. i need to have another one. that's why we're working hard on this. you cited the emerson poll in iowa. that does not even qualify as an rnc eligible poll to be considered. then the fact they did not put my name in that poll makes it a little bit difficult. so we're looking for good polling numbers across the country. i'm confident we're going to make that 3% requirement. we're working very hard on that. so if somebody calls you and asks about the presidential race, say asa hutchinson. >> all right. fair enough. governor, let me ask you, you are -- no one doubts your conservative credentials, the governor of arkansas, of course. you and chris christie are lonely men in your criticism of this primary of donald trump. what are your friends in arkansas who may be like you and have supported you in the past but are supporting donald trump,

what do they say to you at this point, given everything we detail every morning on this show, given the list of alleged crimes joe has been outlining this morning, what do they say to you as someone who they know you're a conservative in a way that donald trump is not? why are they sticking with him, and what do you tell them? >> well, this is a gradual process. it is the most unpredictable political environment we have seen. everybody compares it to eight years ago, 2016. we had a lot of candidates, and how in the world can the poll numbers change today? the answer is, we've never seen anything like this. and i sense, and i think everybody senses, particularly in places like iowa, that you're going to see those numbers change but it'll be late breaking. it'll probably be late fall. they're not going to decide quickly. so donald trump is former

president, so he gets the default position. but as soon as they figure out where they're going to go, you'll see the numbers change. the key is, you have candidates like myself that speak the truth, not only just that we can't win up and down the ticket with donald trump leading the ticket, but, also, the substance of the allegations against him, whether it's protecting national security or whether it is protecting our democracy, whatever happens on the legal side, the underlying facts do not reflect who we need to have as a commander in chief. that's the message. that's the truth. that'll happen on the debate stage. it also happens in a recurring fashion when i'm out on the stump talking to voters. >> gene robinson, you've got the next question for asa. i just want to ask you quickly, in washington, the story, obviously, in your newspaper, "the washington post," about rising crime rates. >> yeah. >> i know you've been sent all over the world, a lot of different assignments, but i think you were in the d.c. in

the early '90s, right? >> yes, absolutely. >> crazy time in the early '90s in d.c., even through the mid '90s, things started to kind of clean up in the later '90s. crime started to go down some. can you quickly tell me, i know you've seen this "washington post" story, what's going on in d.c.? >> well, first of all, if you look at the numbers, we are not where we were in the late '80s/early '90s, when, you know, homicides were much higher. all the crime figures were much higher. and the city was very different, but there were neighborhoods that you didn't go to. there were other neighborhoods you didn't walk through, you ran through if you were there. so, you know, just in perspective, we're not there. but we're also not where we were ten years ago. we're not where we were five years ago in terms of when

washington, d.c., felt like a very, very safe city. i think there are a lot of factors involved in what is happening, but it's real. it is happening. you know, you saw those numbers that we flashed up earlier. those numbers are not going in the wrong way as rapidly in every city as they are here in washington. we have problems here. >> that's a problem, gene. i mean, the thing is -- >> yeah. >> -- actually, as "the washington post" said this morning, washington, d.c., seems to be defying the current trend where crime has been gradually going down, you know, post covid '21, down a little more in '22, down a little more in '23. >> yeah. >> washington is just the opposite. homicides up by 28% this year.

>> yeah. >> robbery up by 67%. >> yeah. you know, as an old city editor, the homicide figure is not always necessarily related to those other figures. it seems to have a life of its own. the other figures, though, the robberies and burglaries and carjackings, which people are afraid of now, you know, this is a genuine issue and it needs to be tackled by city officials, and they need to be doing more. people don't feel safe the way they did a few years ago. i do have a question for governor hutchinson. you know, we were talking earlier about what's happening on capitol hill. republicans in the house are talking about an impeachment inquiry. they're talking about a government shutdown. is that what the republican party needs to be about right now? what would your advice for them

and for kevin mccarthy be as they contemplate, you know, jumping off the successive cliffs? >> well, i would suggest that impeachment, which i went through during president clinton's administration, this is something that should be rare. it should not be routine. it should not be going after a disagreement in policy. it has to be serious wrongdoing. it's generally simply a distraction. now, there's a lot of unanswered questions in reference to some of the financial dealings of president biden, particularly back whenever he was prior to being president. but you have not seen anything that merits a full-blown impeachment. let's get more answers. they're making an inquiry on that. but the answer is, what people are talking about is the economy. it's the price of gas at the pump.

it's our energy supply in the united states. they aren't talking about president biden breaking the leases in the northern slope of alaska. these are the serious issues, and the public gets very confused about all the machinations in washington, d.c., and in congress. they just want them to get the job done. let's get the budget passed. let's make sure we have our services funded but also get a control on spending. they know that's a root cause of inflation. that's what congress needs to focus on, simply getting those things done. everything else is distraction from what's on the public's mind. >> governor hutchinson, a major topic of debate as the house comes back today and they start discussions about funding the government to keep the lights on, is money heading to ukraine. senate minority leader mcconnell the other day gave a stern warning to his fellow republicans saying, we need to keep doing this, and also communicated to the white house this might be the last time i

can wrangle enough support to get significant money to kyiv. where do you stand on this? how concerned are you that fellow republicans may decide, you know what, we can't keep funding this war? >> well, it's a serious point of divide within the republican primary voters, the republican base. i support ukraine. my criticism of the biden administration is they move too slow, and it's diminished the opportunity for ukraine to win. we haven't gotten them abram tanks yet. we're still looking for training on the f-16 fighters. so decisions have to be made. they have to be implemented in a quicker fashion because they're in a war. we want to support them. we want an end to it. i emphasize that it's not a blank check. you have to have audits. you've got to make sure it's being used in the appropriate way, but we have to support ukraine. what is missing right now is a good, effective communication to

the american public. president biden is not in a position to sell it very well to america. he should be, but he's not. it has to be sold. it has to be explained as to what is in our national interest and why this is important. put it in perspective as to how much has been spent and how much europe is putting in. we covered it in the debate. we need to do it again. but it takes leadership. i intend to continue to support ukraine, but, obviously, we want an end to that over time and not an unending war. we've got to win. ukraine has to for their own freedom and sovereignty. >> republican presidential candidate, former governor asa hutchinson, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> we'll see you soon. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, another republican presidential candidate joins us at the top of the hour. former new jersey governor chris christie will be our guest. much more "morning joe" straight ahead.

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desperate search and rescue efforts in morocco following the 6. magnitude earthquake that left 2,800 dead with the number likely to rise. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley has the latest on the devastation and the beginning of a recovery. >> reporter: high in the atlas mountains, glimmers of hope. survivors brought out on stretchers, somehow making it out alive after the most powerful earthquake in a century. this man clutching his daughters, as others were killed. this massive 6.8 magnitude quake struck, buildings crashing down.

this man escaped before the roof caved in. here in the middle of a performance, a wedding band feels this rattling and rushes out. we traveled to one of the hardest hit areas in the countryside. you can smell the death here. between 90 and 100 people were killed in this village alone. they're no longer looking for survivors. she says this is her bedroom right here. four members of hanan's family were killed in the earthquake. she says everybody was taken out. right now, they're looking for their identity cards and other things they need. in mountain villages like this, construction materials are rudimentary. faced with a magnitude earthquake like this, they didn't stand a chance. the remaining homes are sometimes so fragile, aid helicopters caused further damage. morocco's government is facing criticism over the pace of the response. many struggling to reach remote areas.

this woman of family and her home, but still insisted on making us tea. her son fears for the future. without more help from the government, this village may disappear. they're asking the government rebuilds their homes and gives them food. that's it. they're not asking for much. >> matt bradley reporting from morocco. meanwhile, there are new questions about the country's apparent reluctance to accept foreign aid after this disaster. the united states, france, germany, italy, several other countries all have offered to provide help in the wake of the earthquake. morocco's interior ministry said sunday it'd initially accept search and rescue teams only from great britain, qatar, spain and the united arab emirates which it called, quote, friendly countries. despite offers of humanitarian technical assistance, morocco appeared slow to accept that help, as well. u.s. secretary of state blinken said, quote, we await word from

the oroccan government as to where and when we can help. they're saying, we're stand big. we can help. this is what we do. thus far, morocco said, no, thanks. >> it is just crazy. people are suffering. it's such a great degree, you think they'd take help wherever they can get it. even, i mean, countries that consider the united states an enemy have allowed us in in the past to help them out with recovery efforts. katty kay, any insight here on why morocco would be keeping the united nations, the united states and other countries that have the ability, the power, the money, the resources to bringth? >> my sister lives in marrakesh, and she is fine. but, sadly, three children in her village was killed. up in the mountains, it's remote and they need all the help they can get. morocco is a kingdom, a very

centralized government that revolves around the king. everything has to go through the court. i don't know if that accounts for the slow pace of determining who they're going to accept or not. it is certainly not, as far as i know, that morocco sees the united states in any way as an enemy country. the relationship is actually good between the two countries. it just sounds to me like this is kind of bureaucracy. perhaps they don't want to give the impression they can't do this themselves, but it is clear when you have a disaster like this, you need the help. what's so sad is you need it fast. you need it in the first few days, and we've already passed that window now. >> we're going to be following this story. we're also following at two minutes past the top of the hour a number of developments around the criminal cases against donald trump. in a filing yesterday, lawyers for the former president asked the judge overseeing the trial, tanya chutkan, to recuse herself. his attorneys claim she's biased and should step aside because of

her previous comments in relation to the former president and the january 6th capitol attack. ultimately, the judge chutkan herself is the only person who will rule on the recusal. meanwhile, in the election interference case, attorneys asked all the charges to be thrown out. the push the dismiss charges comes as the president's legal team indicates he may try to move the case to federal court. and mark meadows, trump's former chief of staff and co-defendant in the georgia case, filed an emergency motion, asking a judge to pause an order denying his attempt to move his criminal case to federal court. joining us now, republican presidential candidate, former new jersey governor chris christie. >> governor, a lot to talk about here. just, though, i have to start with the jets. i mean, if the jets had any luck, it'd be bad luck or no

luck at all. yet, they found a way to win last night. >> it was an incredible finish to the game, especially for those who watched "hard knocks" and saw the young man, gibson, who struggled to make the team, made the team, overjoyed and wound up winning the game last night. i have three children who are jets fans, guys. there is no joy in the christie household last night, even despite the win. they've been looking forward to aaron rodgers for months now. they got four plays. >> yeah, four plays. that was it. but what win at the end. good work by the starting quarterback there. governor, let's move on. front page of "the washington post", crime skyrocketing in washington, d.c. republicans like to say, "oh, it only happens in democratic

cities. but crime is bad in louisiana and alabama, florida. it's tough in philadelphia where cops keep quitting. the it is especially back in washington, d.c., where carjackings are up 110%. murders up 27%, 28%. property crime skyrocketing. there's no accountability. no accountability. what is going on? not only in d.c. but in all of these other cities. also, my gosh, in red states like, you know -- in cities like jacksonville or monroe, louisiana. >> look, joe, this is what happens when you send a message as a prosecutor, that there are certain crimes you're not going to prosecute. that's what's happened in ciies all across the country. when prosecutors are -- >> governor, why are we doing

that? why are we telling people, "you can steal stuff up to $1,000, and you're fine. we're going to let you smash a small business owner who has been working his entire life or her entire life to be able to afford a storefront on their hometown. we're going to let you smash their windows, steal their items from the hardware store, from the clothing store, and just not do anything about it." when did that become the norm in the united states of america? >> it became the norm in the united states of america when there were a number of cities which elected george soros sponsored prosecutors, who said that, somehow, prosecuting this kind of crime is unjust. what's unjust is the quality of life you're seeing, and it spreads beyond just those cities, joe. because criminals -- >> i was going to say, governor, i don't think they're george soros prosecutors in monroe,

louisiana, or bessemer, alabama. >> no. >> or jacksonville, florida. those are the highest crime rates in america. >> they're not, joe. what happens is, when the major cities, san francisco, los angeles, philadelphia, chicago, new york, set this tone, it spreads everywhere. that's what's going on. what we need is to refocus ourselves on quality of life crimes in this country. in the end, if we don't stop the smash and grab stuff you talked about, the violent crime you're seeing in places like new york, washington, philadelphia and other places, if we don't do that, that spreads. that's what you're seeing across the country right now. that's why i said when i'm elected president, joe, we're going to send an attorney general and the u.s. attorneys in those areas to go in and prosecute these cases federally. give these folks federal time until the local prosecutors decide it's time to do their jobs again.

that'll be done on the numbers, joe. if your district in your city is not doing it, then the feds are going to come in and take it over for a period of time. >> by the way, why aren't they doing it in washington, d.c.? they actually fund washington, d.c. they have the ability to do it in washington. >> yeah. >> i want to expand it out, though. you were a prosecutor. if some left-wing progressive prosecutor in san francisco is doing something some way in san francisco, you wouldn't do it that way in jersey. i don't think the jacksonville prosecutors are following george sort soros. i'm not saying left-wing progressive prosecutors who want to talk about it and figure out the underlying causes of the house burning down before stopping the house from burning down, i'm not saying they're not the problem. the house is on fire. stop the burning. after we protect people, then

let's have a long talk about how these fires keep getting set, right? but what's happening in other cities, where left-wing progressive prosecutors are not elected? what's happening in monroe, in birmingham, what's happening in jacksonville? >> in these smaller places, like you just named, joe, the criminals are not smart. that's what i always loved about criminals when i was prosecuting them. they're not smart. they look at what's happening around the country, then they try to do it in their own place. because those places are much smaller, joe, it is much easier for them to get overwhelmed when the volume of crime goes that high. that's what you're saying in places like, i think, birmingham and bessemer county. those are the places where the resources are not great because, normally, they haven't had a crime problem. but now, criminals around the country are doing this. the folks there are seeing it, and the volume is going up and overwhelming what is going on. you also can't discount that the

morale of law enforcement officers across this country is very, very low because of some of the stuff that's been going on across the country. they feel like they're not going to be backed up, and so their job becomes much more difficult to do. >> nobody wants to talk about that. >> no. >> philly, they can't keep cops there because their family members are saying, "come home. nobody appreciates you. they want to defund the police, so you're coming home. i'm not letting you risk getting shot and leaving two kids without a father or a mother. come home." you know, people don't want to talk about that. they want to talk about defunding the police. i would just like them to answer the question, why are they such racists? why are they such bigots? why do they hate people of color? talk about defunding the police, look at the data, it is a truly disadvantage for people of color in the most disadvantaged areas who suffer disproportionately, especially black americans.

it makes me so angry when people in park slope or brooklyn heights start lecturing other new yorkers that live in tougher parts of town about their social theories while they're sipping, like, soy lattes. so i found like a conservative. i am so conserative on crime, chris christie, guess what? it shouldn't only apply to the person who does smash and grab, but it should apply equally to somebody who steals plans to invade iran and shows them to their campaign manager while saying, "i'm not supposed to show this to you. i can't make this legal. i could have when i was president but i can't now." chris, governor, i want to know, like, why are these same republicans and conservatives that are so worried about crime, like i am and you are, why don't they give a damn when the president of the united states does it?

>> well, look, that's a mystery to me. that's why i didn't raise my hand on that stage three weeks ago and say it's okay to have a convicted felon as president of the united states. it was amazing to me that six others did. look, if you want to have a justice system in this country that works, if you want law and order in this country, law and order has to apply to everyone. and i'll tell ya what else is going on here, joe, it shouldn't only be applying to donald trump, but it also should be applying to everyone up and down the line. so all these different motions and other things you're seeing in court, i think in the main will be unsuccessful. these folks are going to have to face a jury of their peers. when you look at the crime problems, you know and you all remember this because you covered it, when we had this kind of problem in camden, new jersey, when i was governor, it was the most dangerous city in america. what we did, we fired the entire kansas city police department. we reestablished a new police department under new rules where they were trained not only in community policing but in violence de-escalation.

what's happened in the ten years now since we did that? the murder rate in camden is down 75%. the violent crime rate is down 66%. this is a 90% minority city, guys. when the george floyd incident happened, you know what happened to camden, new jersey? the african-american preacher in the largest church in the city led the march protesting george floyd with the white polish american police chief. because the people in that city felt like the police were on their side. they were working together to keep their city safe. that's what we need to return to in this country. it's where the citizens of any place in this country feel like the police are working together with them and so is law enforcement. we did it in camden, new jersey. if you can do it there, you can do it in any city in this country if you want to focus on it and do it the right way. >> all right. chris, to joe's point, though, i'm wondering what you're

hearing on the campaign trail, and do republicans, do mostly trump supporters, but do you get through to them about trump and crime, his crimes? i'm not talking about the ones he's accused of doing, but it is kind of, you know, until you go through the evidence and the court of law, it might not be as -- i'm talking about clear admitting of wrongdoing. like, for example, paying off a porn star. he doesn't deny it. like, for example, the nuclear secrets, the documents that he claims. classified documents he claims were his. there's video images of mar-a-lago with boxes and boxes and boxes of classified documents. there is ample evidence that he did something wrong. what is it about the republican party that they can't look at this and say, right is right and wrong is wrong? >> well, look, mika, that's why i'm out here fighting the fight i'm fighting.

i was in rye, new hampshire, last night, doing an event with former united states senator scott brown and his wife, gayle. we did a town hall meeting together here in new hampshire. what i spoke to people about is the conduct. the conduct that underlies these criminal charges. is that the conduct we want from someone who wants to be president of the united states again? is that what we want behind the desk in the oval office, is someone who would take these documents and hide them for 18 months from the government, when the government spent months and months and months asking politely, quietly, for donald trump to return these documents to them because of the nature of these documents. he lied, denied he had them, hid them from his own lawyers, used other people who are now under criminal indictment to hide those documents and move them around to avoid detection. ultimately forced the government to, you know, do a raid, which he was warned would happen by his own lawyers if he didn't comply.

i mean, so even if you think that the justice system in some respects has not been fair to donald trump, that's not getting to the underlying conflict. that's the way you need to make the argument. the argument is, is this what we expect from someone who aspires to be president? can't we set the bar higher? now, we had 150, 200 people last night at this event, and i thought the reaction to it was really good. but what you have to do is you have to take the time to make the argument. you have to be patient and persistent. by the way, you see the reaction we're getting in a place like new hampshire. three months, we've gone from zero to 14%, from nowhere on the ballot to number two, ahead of everyone else except donald trump. i'm not going to stop in making this argument. it needs to be made for the good of this country and for the good of my own party. >> governor, good morning. we talked about the jets. we're not going to mention what your cowboys did to my giants the night before. let's move right past that. >> you sure, willie? >> yeah, no, we're not doing it.

take our viewers inside one of the town hall meetings or across the state of new hampshire, to a trump supporter. you have a conversation, maybe they're giving you a look, they say, "he's my guy. i think he's being persecuperse" because of the media they're ingesting, they believe his story, that he is the victim in all this. how do you get through to a voter like that who is riding with donald trump until the end? >> you know, part of what i say to them is, if you care -- because many of them, what they say to me, willie, is, you know, it's been unfair, the things you said. they also say to me, look, we may not always agree with what we does, but we love his issues. i say, well, why the heck would you ever hire him to try to get the issues done? this is a guy who said he was going to repeal and replace obamacare. because of his abuse, endless abuse of the late john mccain, he didn't repeal obamacare. a guy who said he was going to build a wall across the entire

border of mexico and the united states and mexico would pay for it. 52 miles of wall in four years and mexico hasn't paid us the first peso for it. this is a guy who said he knew how to balance budgets, and he added nearly $7 trillion to the deficit in four years, the most prolific spender in american history in four years. i'd say, look at the issues. educational freedom, he didn't do a thing to increase educational choice in the country, despite having one of the most pro-educational choice education secretaries in the history of this country. he did nothing to advance it. he did nothing to improve the immigration laws in the country. i go through the issues with them and talk to them about the things they say they care about. why would you ever hire donald trump to try to get it done? on the other hand, i did those kind of things in a very blue state with a democratic legislature by using the bully

pulpit, as you all remember, and negotiating with all the folks who are elected to get better results for the people we work for. >> governor, i know one of the issues you're hearing about on the campaign trail is immigration. in this city where we're sitting right now, new york, last week, mayor adams escalated his criticism of the president, of the biden administration, and said this migrant crisis, as he called it, is going to destroy this city. those are the words of the mayor of new york city. more than 110,000 migrants have come in just over the last year or so. if you're president of the united states, what would you do to secure the border and to ease some of the tensions that cities, republican, democrat, across the country are feeling because of it right now? >> well, look, willie, there's plenty of blame to go around here, to be fair to mayor adams. yes, joe biden sent a clear signal during the campaign that he was going to open the border widely if he became president of the united states. now, he's shocked that people have come pouring over the border in the years after he was

elected president. but, secondly, folks like eric adams, the mayor of new york, folks like phil murphy, the governor of my home state, who are saying they'll be sanctuary cities and sanctuary states, well, that was easy to say when there was no cost to it, when people weren't pouring over the border. now, when there is a cost, all of a sudden, they're the ones complaining. well, maybe you shouldn't have said you were going to be a sanctuary city if you weren't ready to take all these people in and a sanctuary state if you weren't ready to take all the people in. look, the biggest problem we have at the border is not only the people who are coming over but the fentanyl that is coming over. 110,000 people in this country died to overdoses last year, willie. day one, i'll sign an executive order to send national guard to the border to partner with border officers to stop the fentanyl for coming over the border. we'll never stop all of it, but every bit of it we stop is another life that we'll save in this country. next, we need to go after the

chinese on this. the chinese are sending the precursor chemicals to mexico and the mexican drug cartels to make the fentanyl they're sending over to kill our citizens. china cannot get a free pass on this, and joe biden has done nothing about this issue, as well. donald trump did very little about it. in the end, we need a president who understands that these things are all interconnected. we have to work together to do that. but you have to be aggressive. by the way, joe biden's rhetoric on this during the campaign was reckless. i said so at the time. it has led to causing this. so has been the rhetoric of mayors and governors around this country who have called themselves sanctuary cities and sanctuary states, playing to the grandstand, and now, those cities and their citizens understand what the reckless policies have led to. >> governor christie, good morning. there is new reporting today that house speaker mccarthy is going to endorse the idea of an impeachment inquiry into

president joe biden. it's not quite clear if he has the votes, but there's a sense if he were to secure as many, that'd lead beyond an inquiry to impeachment. do you think that is an appropriate step for your fellow republicans to take? >> look, what i've said is, there is a lot of smoke around the hunter biden and joe biden business relationships. we need to have a thorough investigation of it. i hope it happens on two levels. i hope congress uses its oversight capability to be able to do those investigations, and i hope that the special counsel do that, as well. he needs to reestablish his credibility after the ridiculous deal he signed off on for hunter biden, which he backed off of because a judge forced him to back off of it. but i don't see evidence yet that would support impeaching joe biden. i think we're cheapening impeachment by doing that kind of thing. i criticized democrats for doing that over the ukraine issue a number of years ago, on

impeachment, and i don't want my party to fall a victim to the same thing. but i do think it is important for it to be investigated because there are too many connections now, too many inconsisteies in the president's story and what he has said and what others have said who are apparently witnesses to his participation in helping hunter biden with his business. we need to know the fact on that, and then we can make an intelligent decision about whether the facts exist to move forward to something more serious. right now, what's necessary is investigation both by the congress and by the department of justice. >> governor, in a couple of weeks, i assume you're going to be heading to california to be on the debate stage again. what will you do different from milwaukee? seems nikki haley seemed to take as much advantage as you did of attacking donald trump up on that stage, and she saw a boost in her numbers and certainly in attention and fundraising after the debate. are you going to do something different in the debate in california?

>> no. i'm not going to do anything different, katty. we've done very well in the aftermath of the debate. we're tied for second nationally with ron desantis in the latest rasmussen poll, and we're clear of everyone else in second place in new hampshire. that's all polling that has been done after we performed the way we have in the debate a few weeks ago in milwaukee. so i'm glad that nikki said some of the things she said regarding ukrainian policy, and i agree with her on that, but i don't agree with her when she raised her hand and said that she would, in fact, support someone who had been a convicted felon for president of the united states. i don't think you can act as if you're being critical of donald trump and say that that kind of conduct is acceptable. she's going to have to decide where she is on all of these issues. but she did a good job in the debate. i give her credit for that. i think we did very well also. even getting asked a ufo question, so i think we did fine. >> that was a big one. >> we'll continue to do what we do at these debates. i'm going to look into the camera, going to answer the question that's asked, i'm going

to make it very clear where i stand on these issues so the american people and the members of my party know the kind of president they'll get when they nominate me to beat joe biden. >> let's talk really quickly in closing about nikki haley's position on abortion. which, strangely enough, vice president mike pence said was a lack of leadership when she said, we should work toward consensus. we should work toward compromise. i mean, that's not weakness. that's actually what leaders do. but nikki brought up a very good point, that republicans are pushing for a 15-week ban. that's what the mississippi ban was going to be. that's also about what the limit is in france and across the rest of europe, 15, 16 weeks. also, that's where most americans are. that's past the first trimester. it's going into the second

trimester, 15 weeks with exceptions. roe, of course, was viability, right? that's 23, 24, 25 weeks. doesn't it seem between those two points like there can be consensus, that we don't have to be fighting over this issue and leaving it to unelected judges for the rest of our lifetimes? >> listen, joe, i've argued for decades as a lawyer that roe was wrong. there is nothing in the constitution that talks about this issue, and it should be left to the states. we should allow that to continue. we should allow each state, and most importantly its citizens, to weigh in on this issue. we're seeing that happening across the country. >> even -- so if you're president of the united states and wisconsin has an 1849 total ban of abortion, you'll sit back and go, that's cool? >> what i'm going to say is the states have the rights to do what they want to do, joe. yet, in my state of new jersey, it's abortion up to nine months.

i don't agree with that any more than i agree with banning abortion -- >> you just have proven my point. by the way, the number of abortions that go past the second trimester -- >> it is not an abortion at nine months, and there's not a doctor that would don't. it only happens in extremely severe circumstances. bring me the evidence of women across the state of new jersey having abortions in the ninth month. it's not happening, chris. come on. >> mika, let me say this. mika, it's what the law is. we're talking about what the law should be. >> i know but -- >> no, no, it's not but, though. >> you said this the last time you were on and i let it go. i can't let it go again. >> well -- >> there's no abortions in the ninth month. >> you can pushback, but that's what the law is, mika. so the point is, joe's question was where should the law be? what i want to do is see all of the states weigh in

individually. then, let's let the federal government look at, is there a consensus, joe? is there a consensus, and mika, and that has been developed by the 50 states that can be implemented by the federal government, and that you can get 60 votes for in the united states senate, which is what you would need to put any bill on the president's desk. we all know that. so the fact is, i want this process to move forward in the states. lots of things are happening that surprise people. the vote in kansas surprised a lot of political experts who said that it would go one way and it went completely the other. we've seen that in ohio, as well. we've seen it in other places, where folks thought the vote was going to go one way and it went totally differently. so i want to put this in the hands of the people of this country and out of the hands of the politicians. let them decide in each state, then let's see if a consensus develops. if it does, then the federal government can get involved. but first, let's let the states do what they should be doing. my point on contrasting new jersey to, let's say, oklahoma,

is that there is a diversity of opinion in this country. let's honor the diversity of that opinion and see if a consensus can be formed by all 50 of the states. that's the way the founders wanted these things to be handled if they didn't mention it specifically in the constitution. that's the way we should handle it. >> all right. we'll continue this debate later. former new jersey governor and 2024 republican presidential candidate chris christie, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate it. >> all right. >> thank you, guys. >> good to have you on. ahead on "morning joe," house lawmakers are getting back to work today. one of our next guests says speaker kevin mccarthy faces a perfect storm of demands. we'll have the latest from capitol hill. plus, a live report from ukraine as russian president vladimir putin turns to north korea for military aid amid the ongoing war. also this morning, we are following new developments in the search for an escaped pennsylvania inmate, as police

say the convicted killer is growing more desperate. >> another sighting last night, and he is armed. >> could be armed and dangerous. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. this morning, authorities in pennsylvania issued a new warning about the convicted killer who escaped from a county prison in the state nearly two weeks ago. george solis has the latest. >> reporter: new sighting of danelo cavalcante now has a weapon. police chasing the escaped convict in south coventry township, pennsylvania, where residents are to remain indoors and lock windows and doors. >> roughly 30 years of age, 5

foot, currently shirtless and blue pants. subject is known to have a .22 cut-off rifle with a scope and a flashlight. >> reporter: authorities haven't confirmed what weapon cavalcante has. >> this is an extremely stressful time for the community. >> reporter: cavalcante entering the 13th day with 300 officers and multiple agencies on the ground. >> we live in a very, very nice area where we don't lock anything. it's been really crazy. >> reporter: after his dramatic escape from the chester county prison, after multiple sightings in the area, police say he has changed his appearance. cavalcante has tried to reach out to others, including a former coworker, where he was caught on camera. police say video not yet released shows cavalcante speaking portuguese. authorities characterizing his demeanor as urgent but friendly, and someone clearly looking for help. >> we'll ultimately capture him. he doesn't have what he needs to last long term. >> super quiet guy, really shy.

>> reporter: frank used to live with cavalcante. rose says he moved out the day before cavalcante murdered hid ex-girlfriend, unaware he was wanted for a prior homicide in brazil. >> has he attempted to reach out for you? >> i hope he won't. if he does, i'll call the police right away. >> reporter: the fugitive system was detained. authorities not saying if she's helped her brother since he escaped from the prison, and issuing this stern warning to anyone thinking of assisting the desperate fugitive. >> we will prosecute you fully for those actions. >> that's nbc's george solis reporting. we'll stay on the story. coming up on "morning joe," when it comes to attacks on america's institutions, our next guests argue, quote, democracy's assassins always have accomplices. we'll explain what that means straight ahead on "morning joe."

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live picture, 7:40 in the morning. the top of our building here at rockefeller center. in a "new york times" op-ed, professors argue, the greatest threat to our democracy is not from president trump and his extremist followers who stormed the capitol but the ordinary politicians, many inside the capitol that day, who protect and enabled them. professors of government at harvard university join us now. they are the authors of "the new york times" ies die." now, they're out with a follow-up on what causes democracy to unravel, "tyranny of the minority." good morning. welcome back. good to see you. >> good morning. >> steven, let me start with you about the op-ed, which is the enablers, which is some of the people we've been talking about

this morning. speaker kevin mccarthy, perhaps most prominent among them, going along for the ride with donald trump on issues that used to be absolute disqualifiers, not just for republicans but for anybody. you steal nuclear secrets, bring them back to your beach club, game over. you try to stage a coup against the united states government, try to overturn an election, game over. yet, we just had governor hutchinson and governor christie on, and they're the only two speaking out against trump and are polling in the low single digits. what is this moment right now as you both see it in the republican party? >> look, studying democracies and crises of democracies all over the world, in europe, latin america, elsewhere, it's very clear that there are three elements to commit a democratic -- a democratic politician must do three things. always accept the result of elections when they lose. they have to always denounce and refrain from political violence.

and, crucially, they have to always break from, denounce, try to hold accountable anyone who engages in anti-democratic behavior. and on that third front, there are a set of politicians who look like mainstream politicians, dress like main street politicians, talk like main street politicians, but they violate the third tenant. they remain quiet. maybe they justify, condone or protect groups or politicians who engage in anti-democratic behavior. looking at germany, italy, spain, chile and other places where democracy has broken down, it is precisely because mainstream political parties, mainstream politicians refuse to break with anti-democratic extremists. that's what worries up today in the republican party. >> is it just about power, daniel, that kevin mccarthy wants to keep his job? he knows all these crimes that

donald trump is alleged to have committed are bad. when asked about it, he says, yeah, but what about hunter biden? he can't defend a lot of the stuff we've seen, especially lately, but he changes the subject. is it just fear of the voters? fear of losing his job? >> it's all of these things. it's careerism. to be a careerist and think about your future in politics is normal. that's part of democratic politics, but when democratic is at stake, you have to have a hard line. one of the points in our book, if you look throughout history, there's often attacks on congress, parliaments. how do mainstream politicians respond to it? do they denounce it or look out for their narrow self-interest? when they do that, ultimately, democracy gets into trouble. >> let's go further here. it is one thing to enable donald trump right now as he is a presidential candidate. what happens, though, were he to win? what would that say about where this country is as an american experiment in its democracy going forward? >> frightening, frightening. you know, we've just seen the

last several days the rhetoric that candidate trump is using. it is even worse than 2016, saying he will, you know, indict his opponent without any basis. explicitly saying that. i think the broader point, though, has to be that we have to think about, why are we in this situation? why is the united states in this situation? even if things maybe feel okay, some days, we have to step back and say, you know, america is vulnerable to these dynamics. if not in 2024, 2028, we have to address the underlying issues playing in our democracy. >> mika? >> steven, daniel was talking about careerists like kevin mccarthy, but how does an entire -- i mean, do you look at how an entire party becomes complicit in anti-democratic behavior and behavior that is completely in opposition to what they believe? how does that happen? >> it's happened rather quickly. >> is it a cult?

>> no, no, it's not a cult. i mean, i think, first of all, there was a transformation of the republican party over the last 40 or 50 years, as america grew more diverse. the republican party got stuck and didn't and reached particularly in the early 21st century, where it was having trouble competing nationally in elections. that radicalized the party. but it is important to point out that our institutions are, in some ways, making the problem worse. because of the bias in our electoral institutions, republicans are able to win national power, either in the electoral college, also in the senate, without winning national majorities. the republican party had to win national majorities to win elections, it would be a less radical party. party leaders would be under much more pressure to reach out to a broader set of the electorate, and i think we'd have less of a problem today.

>> daniel, can i follow up on that? isn't this as such a systemic problem than anything? you've studies democracies in other western countries, and you don't have the minority, whether through the supreme court, through the electoral college, through the fact that districts are drawn up by politicians rather than by civil servants, so you get the gerrymandering that you get, and you just get a situation in which the organs of government, if you'd like, on big issues like gun control or abortion, don't represent the majority of the country anymore. >> we're the only democracy in the world where someone can lose the popular vote and, yet, become president. i mean, that's striking if you pause and think about that for a moment. that's only indicative of a broader problem, exactly as you say, in the senate and supreme court. what all of this means is that if a party can win power without winning majorities, it won't try to win those majorities. if you think back to other democracies around the world, even in our own history, when

the democratic party was out of power through the 1980s after losing a series of elections, bill clinton regrouped and came up with a new ideology, new face faces. tony blair remade the labor party in britain. parties are supposed to revamp themselves and figure out strategies to win over majorities. that's not happening in the united states with the republican party, and it is due, we think, in part, to the institutions. a way forward is to think about, how do we change our institutions in a way to encourage the republican party to behave in ways that are absolutely critical for our democracy? >> what are some ways that those can be changed, steven, realistically? what changes are possible? >> well, in the short term, i think expanding the right to vote. in most democracies, the right to vote is in the constitution. we do not have a constitutional right to vote in the united states. it should be easy for americans to vote. that's one thing. in terms of this broader issue

of getting to a place where majorities, electoral majorities can win and govern, i think the elimination of the filibuster is an important stuff, relatively easy stuff. in the immediate term, this isn't something that will happen overnight but it's something we've come close to as a country in the past, is abolition of the electoral college. there have been many, many, many efforts to abolish the electoral college. not recently. in the late 1960/'70s, we came very, very close. both major parties and president nixon supposed abolition of the electoral college, and it came within a couple votes in the senate of getting through. had a large majority in the senate. it seems crazy in 2023. if you take a step back, there have been serious efforts and widespread support for abolishing the electoral college. to eliminate this problem daniel pointed to, we are the only presidential democracy on earth where the loser can win. >> it doesn't make -- try to explain that to a child or a kid

who is learning about the country and getting engaged. white a minute, the person who got the most votes lost. it doesn't add up. >> try to explain it to somebody who was born in the 1980s or 1990s, had their adult life in the 21st century. we've had two elections out of the last six in which the loser won the loser won and a third in which the loser nearly won and that led to a major crisis in 2020. >> finally, daniel, you guys write about the need for americans to stay engaged and that there is so much negativity, and everything feels depressing and heavy, and that the reaction should not be to turn away from our politics but to engage and to the credit of american voters, they have. you look at 2020 and 2022, they have really engaged. what is the key to that continuing going forward and not becoming exhausted by our politics. >> two points, one in the short run, to understand the stakes in each election, we have been successful as americans, to turn

out to vote, realize there's a threat on the horizon, and understanding the parties aren't just the same and to really understand when a candidate threatens to not accept election results, they probably are not going to accept election results. over the longer run, i think it's critical to begin to think about these issues of institutional reform. if we don't, we're going to continue to be vulnerable to this. there was a great american tradition of amending our constitution. over the last 200 years, we've improved our constitution continuously. there have been setbacks. the reason our constitution is as get as it is is we have been doing the hard work of making it more democratic. the last 50 years, we're doing that work. we need to reignite our political organization, this is our democracy, it's possible to make it better, and i think citizens have it in their power to do that. >> it's an important message and an important book. it's titled "tyranny of the minority," steven levitsky and

daniel ziblatt, thank you so much for being here, congratulations on the book. >> thanks for having us. north korean leader kim jong un set to meet with russian leader vladimir putin today in a message that's supposed to be defiant to the west but may see more about putin's desperation. more with the arms deal on the table. "morning joe" will be right back. table. "morning joe" will be right back the sleep number climate360 smart bed is the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms and effortlessly responds to both of you for up to 44 minutes more restful sleep per night. save $1500 on the sleep number climate360 smart bed. shop now at sleep number.com.

time for a look at the morning papers, in texas, the el paso times, reports a major hearing in the death penalty case against the el paso walmart shooter was delayed without explanation. a conference to establish a time line for the case was supposed to take place yesterday but was delayed for nine days. the el paso district attorney says it is a frustrating development in a case that has already dragged on, adding it is taking an emotional toll on its victims and families from the shooting who are already

suffering. the miami herald reports that migrant workers who typically get contracted out to help rebuild areas affected by natural disaster are declining jobs in florida. a survey by resilience force asked about 2,000 undocumented immigrants if they plan on going to the state to assist with cleanup from hurricane ida. more than half responded they would not citing fears of deportation, harassment because of the state's new immigration law. "the tennessean" looked at safety concerns with self-driving taxis. it comes as crews, an autonomous vehicle company announced plans to bring its fleet to the streets of nashville. experts raised alarms about the safety of the vehicles due to inefficiencies in recognizing children and pedestrians at night. crews has not said when its

taxis will start carrying passengers. that's kind of a problem. still ahead an impeachment inquiry into president biden is looking more likely as the republican-controlled house returns to capitol hill. we'll have the new reporting on house speaker kevin mccarthy's plans. plus, the big story in sports this morning, disaster for the new york jets. aaron rodgers goes out with an injury just four plays into last night's season opener. we're back in 90 seconds. opene. we're back in 90 seconds

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plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, september 12th. the republican controlled house returns to capitol hill today with not a lot of time to hammer out a new budget, and now new reporting suggests the gop majority seems to be more focussed on launching an impeachment inquiry into president biden than preventing a shut down of the federal government. >> well, well. that's luck, fellows. >> nothing's changed. >> nothing's changed and way to play right into swing voters'

worst instincts about you. ding ding ding, we have a loser. plus, russian president vladimir putin is meeting today with another dictator in an effort to secure more supplies for his military. >> speaking of losing. >> fantastic. >> yes. also this morning. >> #losing. >> our military sucks so bad, we have to ask north korea for their help. >> along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay is back with us. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson, and senior columnist at "the daily beast" matt lewis is with us this morning. good to have you all. feels like school is back. >> when i was growing up in upstate new york back in the late '70s, i would listen to am

radio all night, and listen to wabc george michael in new york city. i'd listen to cklw. i was in upstate new york, so i could get the east coast, i could get the midwest, but it was a wonderful life, but it was really cold there. >> dark. >> dark like at 3:00, 3:30, 4:00. >> they have a lot of track meets there. >> they would do weather, it would be like minus 12 degrees, and you know, every time i got sad -- >> are katty and i matching. >> i'm telling a story. >> this is breaking news. >> so anyway, willie, so it would be like minus 12. >> okay. >> and i would be depressed. >> sad. >> up there in big flats new york. living in the coldest place on earth and then i'd get my radio

dial and i would always go to wls, and i would always feel better because it's not minus 20 degrees in chicago. well, it could be worse, right, well, as a lifelong atlanta falcons fan, every time i hit the depths of despair, i would say, at least, at least. >> god, this is a long wind up. i just want to know if katty and i are matching. go ahead. >> i'm not a new york jets fan. the most jets things ever happened to the new york jets. that's like saying the most mets thing happened to the new york mets. this is like seriously being sent straight to hell and the devil says, no, no, no, there's actually a place below here you have never heard of and we're going to send you down there. the jets thing happened last

night, a tragedy for the franchise quarterback, and yet, somehow, some way, a miracle finish at the end. >> just an absolute gut punch for new york jets fans. i say this as a new york giants fan. it was brutal to watch. they get aaron rodgers in the off season for the packers, huge trade acquisition, sign him two a big two-year contract last month, and he's going to save the franchise. they haven't been to the super bowl since 1968. he's going to change all of that. they've got a good defense, they like their head coach. four plays into the first game with the new york jets last night against the bills, he goes down with an achilles injury, likely, most people believe, he'll have an mri today, out for the season, done, and they're right back where they started with zach wilson, the number one draft pick of a couple of years ago, who they gave up on and brought in rodgers. they did win the game because

their defense is excellent and they had a walk off punt return to win the game. completely overshadowed by the loss of aaron rodgers who we don't know for sure, but it's an achilles, we know what that means, and likely out for the season, jonathan lemire. >> i will say, jonathan lemire, their defense looked great. their running game looked good. they've got a good running attack. and they actually, for the first time in quite some time, looks like the jets have a pretty good all around team. >> they do, and they were one piece away. and that one piece was aaron rodgers and that piece is gone. they will trade for a veteran quarterback as the years go on. aaron rodgers, though his play has slipped the last couple of years, he was going to be the franchise. this was it. the jets have become a cursed, tortured franchise for decades. and there was more expectation and hype about last night and

about the start of this season than perhaps any year in franchise history with the one possible exception of 1999 where they were considered a super bowl favorite them. and their star quarterback in the first game of their season, tore his achilles tendon. it's the exact same injury. it is devastating, and we'll find out later today, but the head coach said after the game they did believe it was an achilles, that would end the season. and aaron rodgers, whether we'll ever see him on a football field again. that can't be ruled out either. an utter gut punch for the fan base. >> he turns 40 in a couple of months. he went down and rolled his ankle. when he got up and salt back down, a guy who doesn't get injured a lot. he's carted off in a boot. the news is not good for aaron

rodgers and for the jets fans who have been suffering only since 1968. >> only since '68, joe willie took him to the '69 super bowl and won in spectacular fashion, mika reminds me, 16-7. over the colts. speaking of fashion, the second pressing question here is not just where did i listen to am radio growing up in the '70s but do mika and katty match? >> yes, because you bought me this dress and i texted her and told her to buy the same dress. she got a different color. but there you go. >> mika, i've got the same color, it's just the lighting in this studio is not quite as beautiful as the lighting in your studio perhaps. >> that looks really different. >> but i promise, i swear to god, it's exactly the same dress, they only do it in this blue. >> there you go. >> match day.

>> and on to the news on match day. new polling showing a major drop in support for former president donald trump in iowa, yet no other single candidate is filling the void. in the latest emerson college survey out this morning, 49% of likely caucus voters say trump is their pick for 2024, down 13 points since may. the former president still leads florida governor ron desantis by 35 points. the governor has also seen his support fall 6 points since earlier this year. south carolina senator, tim scott, former u.n. ambassador nikki haley. and vivek ramaswamy, and doug burgum have gained support. look at the trend, it's not a good one. >> gene robinson, we have to keep saying it because it's

true. it looks like trump is the dominant figure, looks like he's going to win this thing. it's still really early. again, john mccain at this point in 2007 was on his way out. we were talking about rudy giuliani going up against hillary clinton. republicans still have several months to figure out whether they want to vote for their nominee, a guy who will probably be convicted by the convention, a guy who stole nuclear secrets. >> he says so. >> a guy stole secret war plans to iran. >> he says so. >> a guy who stole a military assessment to show what america's weaknesses was. a guy called a rapist by a new york judge and liable for sexual assault by a jury of his own peers. again, you just go down the line. if republicans still have a little bit of time to figure out if this is who they want representing them moving forward, trump has to be the favorite. i still don't think it's a slam

dunk because there's a lot of ground to cover between now and then, and doesn't get any better for donald trump. >> no, it shouldn't get any better for him. at some point he may be, you know, the candidate people will be asked to vote for somebody who's actually at that moment on trial. so, again, what does that do to his vote. it's unclear. so, yes, it is definitely still early. it's not as early as it was, you know, i mean, these months do sort of tick down, and we're going to get to those iowa caucuses, and we're going to see whether the support actually translates into votes or caucus votes, whatever they do at those caucuses. kind of like voting. and look, donald trump is still the favorite, and you almost call him the prohibitive favorite to be the republican

candidate, but what i'm really interested in is desantis's fall, the rise slightly from the low single digits to the slightly higher single digits of people like nikki haley and tim scott. and what happens if one of them sort of vaults ahead of desantis and starts getting a serious look at the potential alternative to trump. is that a possibility? is it possible that they look at them and find them more, you know, one of them more attractive as a potential alternative to trump than desantis who obviously is not gaining traction. we'll see. but right now, where's the smart money going to go. it's going to go on trump. >> and part of that reason why, willie, is the contender, who's going to be the contender. trump is very fortunate that his number two guy is ron desantis,

a guy who has just run a terrible campaign because the guy is a terrible candidate. he has all the social grace and touch and feel of elon musk. and people have been telling me that even before his campaign. they said, listen, these fundraisers, they want to give him money. they obviously haven't spent five minutes alone with him in a room. he's just not good with people. i heard it over and over and over again. >> you can see it in videos. >> and it seems every week there's another huge republican donor who's saying, listen, i'm conservative. but this guy's a nut. his six-week abortion ban, no way, and so they're talking about pulling their money from him. part of the problem right now is you've got a field that has a really weak number two who's going to keep falling, just like trump is falling. the question is can anybody step up to be donald trump's main

challenger. it seems to be the same question we were asking in 2016, we're asking the same question eight years later. >> and the gulf this time is so wide between donald trump and the rest of the field that nikki haley, for example, has a good debate a couple of weeks ago, does well. establishment republicans say, i think maybe it's her and not ron desantis. she seems to be the adult in the room on that stage, and she's still in mid to high single digits, depending on the poll you look at. it's a wide lead, and not clear any of the legal trouble that donald trump finds himself in, we're going to talk about here in a minute, does anything to his detriment. yes, he's down a little bit in iowa, but his lead has gone from 42 to 35. the opposition scored a late touchdown to cut the lead to 35. do you see anything that cuts into his advantage here in the field? >> obviously i think if you're a betting person, you bet on trump. you can start to imagine a

scenario, that's what you have to do. you have to use your imagination to imagine a scenario where trump loses, and i think what you would have to imagine is number one, there's not a primary election day. there's not a national election. and so you have these flukey states like iowa and new hampshire, and the first step is trump has to lose them both. that could happen. again, these are flukey states. iowa goes for people like mike huckabee and rick santorum, and ted cruz, that could happen again. the fact that donald trump is currently leading there by wide margins is important but i don't think -- i've seen a lead like that collapse in iowa. that's step one. then we move to new hampshire, another flukey state. is it possible that new hampshire decides to deliver a

below to donald trump, and then it becomes dynamic, and that is the hope. again, i think this is borderline fantastical, but then the electability thing becomes a question. right now, republicans don't care about electability. they think anybody can beat joe biden, and they really like donald trump. but what happens if trump were to lose those first two states, and then we have like, well, he's going to have to be in trial. he's going to be in court. you have to really use your imagination, there is a scenario, albeit a long shot where this collapses and donald trump is not the nominee. >> coming up, we'll go live to ukraine for new reaction this morning to russian president vladimir putin's expected meeting with kim jong un. how north korea's leader could soon be playing a major role in the kremlin's war machine. that's just ahead on "morning joe." s war machine.

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in washington, the house of representatives returns to the capitol today with a busy to do list. speaker kevin mccarthy, though, reportedly set to endorse an impeachment inquiry into president biden. punch bowl news is reporting this morning, quote, mccarthy plans to tell house republicans in a closed meeting this week that launching an impeachment inquiry is the logical next step in the gop's probes of the president and his son hunter biden. mccarthy and the house leadership have a closed door session scheduled for thursday morning, reportedly to receive an update on the investigation's led by house judiciary chairman jim jordan, and house oversight committee chair james comer. that's according to punch bowl news. mccarthy plans to say the two chairs have uncovered enough information that necessitates the house formalizing the impeachment inquiry in order to obtain the biden's bank records and other documents. so jonathan lemire, it looks

like he's going to do it. he has been flirting with it, talking about it all summer. according to "punch bowl news," he's going to authorize an impeachment inquiry against president biden. that impeachment inquiry has shown no connection to president biden, it's been all about hunter biden. the hope is if they open it up with more documents, perhaps they'll find something. james comer said himself, a lot of smoke here, no fire yet. >> so far, they found no evidence. state that plainly at the to. the house comes back today. the pressure has mounted, the pressure from former president trump, the pressure from members of the house freedom caucus, and the far right. in fact, matt gaetz is supposed to deliver a speech on the house floor denouncing mccarthy and threatening his removal or subtly suggesting he could go. there's a sense mccarthy is trying to placate the forces, those who are unhappy with him about the debt ceiling, those unhappy about the spending bills

needed to keep the government open, and trying to throw a bone by suggesting we'll go down this road to impeachment inquiry, and katty, there's a sense that people i talked to in washington, if they go impeachment inquiry, well, they're going to go impeachment. that will happen. the white house is preparing. they don't want that. they think it will be time consuming and terrible. with that said, it will politically backfire on the republicans. it's not clear that mccarthy can actually get enough votes to make any of this happen. republicans, moderate republicans who won biden districts really expressing worry about this. what do you think? can mccarthy get there? >> when you've only got a five-vote margin, you need every single vote you can get. if you're a republican up for reelection in 2024 in one of the districts in the country that biden won, people in your district, more centrist, more independent, who think this is a waste of time in government resources, it's going to be

difficult. you know that the war in the white house, they're going to paint and target the specific voters to say, look, this is what the ultra maga republican party is now doing with your time and money up on capitol hill, and there is nothing here and they're wasting your time, and so that would perhaps swing the house back to the democrats. that's what they would hope. when these things are opened, you don't know where they're going to go. they do get broad, and it's a risk for the white house. so they're going to put all the resources they can into this war room, and they're prepared to tackle this. >> matt, you have a new column in "the daily beast," kevin mccarthy's only weapon is his willingness to be humiliated and in it, you write in part, quote, since taking over as speaker of the house in january, mccarthy has been surprisingly resilient and effective but with congress back from august recess, mccarthy now faces what may be the greatest challenge of his political career. the republican-led house has to

pass a spending package between now and september 30th or risk a government shutdown. the gop's right flank wants cuts and concessions that gop moderates and mainstream conservatives view as unachievable, ill advised and politically toxic. when these demands are predictably not met, it seems more likely than not that freedom caucus members who seem to be itching for a fight could bring a motion to vacate the chair which would force a vote on removing mccarthy. >> where does the biden white house go to send the check to thank you for them doing that? >> as long as mccarthy is willing to endure the humiliation in pursuit of his only true goal, remaining speaker, he will likely survive. again, at some point, the government must be funded but how and when? we are left with more questions than answers. the most likely scenario seems

to be a huge s-show, that is embarrassing for mccarthy and the gop but ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things. but that's just my best guess. buckle up, we're about to enter into the land of the unknown. like we already haven't in so many ways. >> but, matt, again, though, this is a group of people who like donald trump are just thinking five minutes ahead. they have no grand plan. they have no grand strategy. >> seconds ahead. >> this shutting down the federal government is going to be just like what we heard about the debt ceiling. everybody is screaming and yelling about the debt ceiling, they're going to fund it. they always fund it. they're not going to let america default on their debt. i have been through it in 1995, '96, a government shutdown, i can tell you, it doesn't end well. they're too stupid, i guess, to think more than five minutes ahead of time. there are a lot of good

republicans in the house caucus going, man, are they really that desperate to be in the minority again? but again, you go down the list of things. that list, i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing nuclear secrets. i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing secret war plans to invade iran. i didn't even talk about donald trump stealing an assessment to show america's weaknesses, then add abortion on top of that, then add all of the chaos of january 6th on top of that, and then add all of these people in the house that kevin mccarthy say basically owes his speakership to, saying the people who killed cops are political prisoners. the people whose family think they killed cops are ballistic missile -- political prisoners. what does that do to a republican in the swing district in new york that won in a district that joe biden won in?

>> yeah, and that's what kevin mccarthy is contending with, right? he's got basically a five-seat house majority, and you have many many kind of moderate republican mainstream conservatives who want to get reelected next year, and then you have 20 to 40, depending on how they fall, but a minority of more kind of right wing freedom caucus republicans that -- and you have to have pretty much all of them. you can lose, if you're kevin mccarthy, you can lose four out of your entire republican conference, and so he is really being squeezed and they're going to force him to jump through hoops, and i think for me, the real question is the republicans, the freedom caucus, the folks on the right who right now are pushing kevin mccarthy, are they -- is this a

negotiation, an opening bid, it's not just impeachment that they want of joe biden, but they want things like -- they want to make sure that we're not giving ukraine a blank check. what does that mean? i'm not sure. do they want to end ukraine funding or do they just want to do a better job of keeping track of the funds. they want to do things like stopping the weaponization of the department of justice and the fbi. do they want to defund the quote unquote, deep state, or is this just a negotiation to cut spending to return, you know, spending levels back to 2022. if it's the latter, if this is just a negotiation, i mean, it's possible that kevin mccarthy can work out a deal. i'm just not sure that's the case, so i think it is much more likely than not that we have a government shutdown, and i think that it is increasingly likely that kevin mccarthy is either going to have to do something such as launch this impeachment probe and probably get more

concessions or there will be a motion to vacate and he will have to stand again. the good news for mccarthy as i noted in the piece is that he is shameless, so i think he managed to endure humiliation in january and become speaker, he could possibly pull off the same maneuver here, but again, this is a lot of wasted energy, the republican party making trouble for themselves. i don't see an exit plan whereby, they end off better than today. >> there's never an exit plan. willie, the thing is if you're kevin mccarthy, let me be very careful how i say this, i would not use initials but i would say fa and fo, and you guys can figure that out at home. go ahead, vacate the chair, i'm fine with that. you know what i'm going to do? i'm going to just be outside watching a baseball game while you guys try to find something that can get 218 votes because

you're not going to be able to find it. come get me in a couple of days when you find out what a fool you have made of yourself. that's the thing, there is no backup plan, they tried to find somebody to take kevin mccarthy's place, and the mainstream republicans in that caucus, they're not going to say, oh, let's get some crazy son of a bitch to drive us over a cliff. nobody's going to get 218 votes for that. so kevin mccarthy should stop being a coward, and tell them what i just said, but i can't really say on tv. >> okay. >> they tried that. remember, the votes, again and again and again, and the extreme right republicans and the maga republicans, they were going to put somebody else in there who was never going to get to 218. the question that matt kind of gets at and is interesting to me, where does this unhealthy relationship end? if this small group of republicans says, you owe us

your job, kevin mccarthy, we can take you out just as fast as we put you in there, give us this, where does that list of demands end? we want an impeachment inquiry, okay, i guess i don't want to be run of my job, you could have that. they could ask for anything theoretically, they can say, we'll get rid of you just as quickly as we put you in there. >> senior columnist at the "daily beast" matt lewis, thank you very much for generating a great conversation. the second ranking democrat majority whip dick durbin is standing by. we'll talk about this government funding fight, and how one single republican is blocking america's military from firing on all cylinders, that's ahead on "morning joe." cylinders, thd on "morning joe. but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good.

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requirements. former arkansas governor asa hutchinson is one of them. he's now looking to boost his standing, expanding the states he will travel to in the coming weeks, that includes north carolina, georgia and texas, and joining us now, republican presidential candidate, former governor of arkansas, asa hutchinson, good to have you on the show this morning. >> governor, thank you so much for being with us. behind you, the united states capitol. you have served well. you have served there. i want to ask you about washington, d.c. right now. there's a little off -- >> is this off topic? >> it's off political topic. it's not about trump. and it's not about getting to the next debate. it's actually about an issue, and it's crime. and i know republicans have loved to say crime only happens in democratic cities. that's not true. it happens in, you know, the worst crime cities were louisiana and mississippi.

it happens in florida, jacksonville, et cetera, et cetera, but i want to talk specifically about the city that you're in right now. headline in the "washington post," "a shaken washington copes with surging violence." this is not normal. "the washington times" talking about all the people, the young kids that have come to work on the hill that are getting beaten up, stabbed, you know, getting assaulted, getting robbed. house committee is actually having to warn staffers about crime rates soaring in the nation's capitol. governor, it's not just the big democratic cities that are out of control. you got monroe, louisiana, you got, you know, bessimer, alabama issue -- alabama, jacksonville, florida, what do we do to turn crime rates back to where they've been in 2020, back to

where they were in 2019, how do we get there? >> and you're right on the importance of this issue. i was in georgia yesterday, and they're not asking me about trump's legal issues. a single mom was asking me about what does it take to give my child a safe environment and that's what they are concerned about in the schools, but also on our streets. and it's not just a big city issue because we see fentanyl in our rural cities. we see the challenge of the smash and grab that is primarily in the inner cities, but we're watching it from across the country, and we're saying, this does not represent the best of america. it's not the rule of law, and there's a simple solution here, and that is enforce the law. and whenever we see a flagrant disregard of the law, whether it is violence and there's not a follow up enforcement and a toughness there, then you're going to see this continue

because they're just seeing a disrespect. and it's close to anarchy, and it starts with the president and his leadership and saying we're not going to be funding places that are not enforcing the law. that is critical that we do this, and you are right on target with the importance of this issue. >> governor, good morning, great to have you back on the show. an awful lot of the republicans happy you're in the race speaking truth, every time you step out, particularly about donald trump, but they're worried about how much longer you'll be around. there's another debate in two weeks at the reagan library in california. are you confident you'll be on that stage? >> i am, but the key is getting good polling information. you know, i've made one national poll at 3%. i need to have another one. that's why we're working hard on this, but you cited the emerson poll in iowa. that does not even qualify as an rnc eligible poll to be considered. and then the fact that they did not put my name in that poll

makes it a little bit difficult. and so we're looking for good polling numbers across the country. i'm confident we're going to make that 3% requirement. we're working very hard on that. so if somebody calls you and asks about the presidential race, say asa hutchinson. >> fair enough. governor, let me ask you, no one doubts your conservative credentials, you're the governor of arkansas, of course, but you and chris christie two sort of lonely men in your criticism of donald trump. what do your friends in arkansas who maybe like you and have supported you in the past but are supporting donald trump, what do they say to you at this point given everything that we detail every morning on this show, given the list of alleged crimes joe has been outlining this morning, what do they say to you as someone who they know that you are a conservative in a way that donald trump is not, why are they sticking with him, and what do you tell them?

>> this is a gradual process. it's the most unpredictable process, everybody compares it to eight years ago, we had a lot of candidates and the answer is we have never seen anything like this, and i sense, and i think everybody senses particularly in places like iowa that you're going to see those numbers change but it's only late breaking. it will probably be late fall. they're not going to decide quickly. and so donald trump is former president, and he gets the default position, but as soon as they figure out where they're going to go, you'll see those numbers change, but key is that you have candidates like myself that speak the truth not only just that we can't win up and down the ticket with donald trump leading the ticket, but also the substance of the allegations against him, whether it's protecting national security or whether it is protecting our democracy, whatever happens on the legal

side, the underlying facts do not reflect who we need to have as a commander in chief. that's the message, that's the truth. that will happen on the debate stage. and it also happens in a recurring fashion when i'm out on the stump, talking to voters. >> coming up, what russia got by scaring elon musk. the atlantic's anne applebaum joins us to explain why she says the billionaire is not the only one who has been frightened into holding back help for ukraine. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe." ukinrae. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe." the judge of t. oh, that's nice... oh!! searchable, verified reviews. that's better than the ham, and i've never said that. booking.com booking.yeah my heart failure diagnosis changed my priorities. i want time for the people i love. my heart doesn't pump enough blood... so my doctor gave me farxiga. ♪ farxiga ♪

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there's a new campaign out. it's called take it down, which aims to put public pressure on companies, tech companies specifically, to be more proactive in removing online child sexual abuse material. the campaign by child fund

international is called #takeitdown, an issue that child advocates say has been overlooked, a bipartisan push in the senate to pass similar legislation. led by senator dick durbin of illinois, the majority whip of the senate, and senator durbin who's also the chair of the judiciary committee joins us now from capitol hill. also with us is senior policy adviser of u.s. government advocacy at child fund, danielle lily. good to have you both on board. boy, senator durbin, we need so much work in the tech sector on social media online on the internet in terms of protecting kids. what are you hoping to accomplish here? >> well, mika, the bottom line is this, when we decided 20 years ago or so what the standard would be for regulation of the internet industry, we said, this is such a fledgling operation, no telling whether it

will catch on or not. we basically said we're going to take a hands off approach. we're not going to hold the platforms or apps accountable for actions or inactions, under section 230, they're basically held harmless in this situation. that is unacceptable these days. this little device that i have in my hands, every parent and grandparent ought to be taking a concern as to whether or not it's being adequately regulated. it's unimaginable the number of reported cases of child sexual abuse that are reported each day in the thousands. it's unimaginable the increase of the child sexual abuse material on the internet and the vulnerability of the kids. mika, have you seen these little infants who can barely speak, reach out with their little finger and touch this screen because they know interesting things happen. it's an indication that this is not only a distraction, it is a danger. the good news is that the senate judiciary committee and a

unanimous vote passed by csam bill, the child sexual abuse materials, holds the apps accountable for what they put online. >> it's such a huge issue. tell us a little bit about take it down, how it works. >> sure. thanks, mika, child fund's take it down campaign is shining a spotlight on the lack of action of tech companies of keeping children safe online, focused on the proliferation of child sex abuse materials which have had a meteoric rise over the last 15 years. the national center for missing and exploited children receives 87 reports of child sexual abuse material every single day, and we see that increase year upon year upon year, so this campaign is really trying to put a spotlight on tech to say no more. we have very simple asks for you, detect child sexual abuse materials on your platform, report them to the appropriate

authorities, and then remove them quickly so that the children that are having the worst experience depicted and captured in these materials are not continuously revictimized. and this campaign, although it's shining a spotlight on tech companies is really trying to speak to parents and young adults, those that have a vested interest in wanting to keep children safe online, educating them on the lack of action of tech companies, but also giving them tools to take back some of the power in pushing for change. we have a one-click tool on our website that will allow them to lift their voice and reach out to policymakers to make that change happen. >> danielle, the tech companies' online platforms, what has been the early response from them, or what do you anticipate their willingness to go along with it or what their objections might be? >> so we have been waiting for many, many years for tech

companies to take voluntary actions to address these materials. we've heard some of the reasons is because they don't have the tools, they have to choose between privacy and child protection. we think those are disingenuous. they have tools available to allow them to uphold privacy and protect children. they're simple not doing that. >> senator durbin, where do you anticipate the level of support being among your colleagues. is this something you feel like you can rally bipartisan acclaim towards? >> i can just tell you if you follow the senate judiciary committee, you know that it represents the spectrum of political belief in this country from the most conservative to the most progressive. i will tell you, the vote on this issue was unanimous on both sides of the table. that's a good signal. big tech is not taking this

sitting down. they are fighting along the lines that have just been outlined as to whether this is an invasion of privacy. the bottom line is there is no constitutional protection for the sexual exploitation of children, period. the fact that this is going on is outrageous. we think under this measure that i've introduced, if we make the platforms liable for civil liability, that they'll start paying closer attention. some of the victims who find themselves being exploited by publications on the internet have gone to these operations and said take this down, and they refuse to do it even when they've been notified it's sextortion or even worse. they have to accept more responsibility or more and more victims are going to result. >> senator, you and i served together in the house so long

ago that i think we both passed legislation that carved out section 230, so long ago that it was another world ago, so long ago that i still have to ask myself since we were trying to protect compuserve and these startup companies that started the internet up from being put out of business for a stray comment in the comment section, it's now morphed into a trillion dollar industry. i'm wondering how long do we give big tech a carveout that nobody else gets? how long do they live by their own set of rules? how long do people in washington, d.c. sit back scared to treat them not differently than other people, not go after them -- i love capitalism. i love entrepreneurs. i love success. but i also love fairness. when do they have to live by the same rules that every other business owner lives by?

>> i tell you it has to change, joe. you remember as i do when it got started, we weren't sure where this industry was headed. it's a major factor in the united states economy and a major factor for life in america. every parent and grandparent knows what it means to turn to the child and say get off the screens, for god's sake. we know it's almost impossible for parents and grandparents to police what kids are doing on the screen. we had a case before us, a young man who was 17 years old, a victim of sextortion, a demand of a $6,000 ransom to take this offensive material he had sent to this individual off the internet. when they refused to, he took his own life. that is happening too often. the industry has to accept responsibility for policing their own ranks, particularly when they're notified about these abuses. >> thank you for doing this.

let me ask you a couple of quick questions about other issues of the day. republicans, at least in the house and chairman mccaul finally calling out tommy tuberville for doing everything he can do to gut america's readiness. when are republicans in the senate going to join in and start complaining every day about a man that, again, is stopping the marine corps from having their first commandant in 150 years and stopping two other services from having leaders? >> as of october the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is up in the air as well. i agree with senator schumer. this is a problem created by one republican senator and the republican caucus has to make it clear in the senate they find this unacceptable. don't put your hand over your heart and give a speech about how much you love our military and then look the other way when one senator from alabama has

decided to harm so many national heros, america's military leaders moving up in the ranks. i think we need a solid response from congress and it starts with senator tuberville's own party. >> you represent chicago. you understand about crime and the challenges of runaway crime rates. chicago has been fighting it for decades. we now see cities on the west coast, cities on the east coast and as i've said before not just blue cities but cities like jacksonville, monroe, louisiana, birmingham, alabama, some of the highest crime rates in america. now washington, d.c., it's in the "washington post" today, crime is out of control in washington, d.c. you have power over washington. your colleagues have power over washington. how do you make it safe for even your own staffers to be able to work without having to worry about getting robbed or having

their car stolen or getting killed? >> joe, that's a perfectly legitimate question to ask every member of congress. i'm doing my best in chicago and illinois to try to reduce gun violence. let's accept one reality. we live in a nation of some 320 million people and 400 million guns. the guns that are coming into illinois and being used in crime are brought in from a lot of states' gun shows nearby. that is part of the problem. fourth of july at highland park a year ago, that was a situation where a fellow on the roof of a business in 60 seconds fired off 83 rounds into a crowd, killing seven people and injuring dozens. what in the world does anybody need a weapon that can discharge 83 rounds in 60 seconds? let's get real about gun safety too. >> the question is, what's done for the crimes committed without

a gun? carjackings up 110% over the past year in washington, d.c., assaults in double digits in washington, d.c., crime skyrocketing in washington, d.c. it's actually going against -- and of course homelessness is skyrocketing everywhere. it's going against national trends. what's happening in washington, d.c.? >> well, it's hard to put your finger on it for any given city. i've done my best to analyze chicago and the challenges we face there. there are crime intervention operations that are being successful. some of this is going to take addressing issues that are really deep seated in terms of poverty and the way children are being raised. that's part of the situation. i can't pass a law that's going to change that overnight, but we've got to do everything within our power to make our streets safe. that's the first thing americans ask, give me a safe neighborhood

to live in and then show me the schools and i'll make my decision on where i want to live. every point you raised is valid. >> democratic chairman of the senate judiciary committee, senator dick durbin, thank you so much. and senior policy advisor of u.s. government advocacy child fund, danielle lily, thank you as well. to learn more about the hashtag take it down campaign, visit takeitdown.childfund.org. next, more on the impeachment inquiry expected this week. and more on the perfect storm awaiting kevin mccarthy as house lawmakers return from august recess today. we're back in 90 seconds with a packed fourth hour. in 90 secon packed fourth hour

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♪♪ welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 on the west coast, a live look at los angeles for you, and 9:00 a.m. on the east. jonathan lemire is back with us for the hour. he does "way too early." it's a good show. i'm down with it now. >> are you saying you didn't like it before? what does that even mean? >> i just think he's got the rhythm. it's good. >> willie, what do you think of that? mika approves of jonathan

lemire. >> when i started "way too early" in 2009, i think it was 2014 before she said, i think they found something here. >> you told willie immediately he was great. you told me that i would either have a really good morning show or i would end up in the penitentiary again. it's six of one, half dozen of the other. i still remember 2014 mika turns to willie as he's walking out, because he's thinking he's going to go be a doctor. >> no. >> and mika says, you were good kid. >> no. i said you're really good. while this is something really special, you're also going to have your own network show. i wasn't sure if it would be on nbc or daily show type thing, but you're in the perfect

pocket, willie. >> i feel that way too. this is the main pocket, though. i was hoping for "deal or no deal" but howie mandel snatched that one from me. >> that was great. >> this is the only place i ever wanted to be. >> me too. it's great. right now i can bring up "field of dreams." willie, have you ever seen any movie that you love so much that baffles so many other people who don't follow baseball? i love the movie so much. he's about to give a speech. >> guys, it's horrible. >> mika! >> here comes his dad. i'm crying all over the place. >> people walk into the corn. are you kidding me? >> i feel like i need to cross myself when you talk that way. oh my god.

>> guys. >> it's the sappiest parts that get us the most. when he says, hey dad, you want to have a catch, forget it. it's over, mika. >> they walk into the corn on an obvious green screen. are you freaking kidding me? >> that wasn't a green screen. that was corn! >> guys, honestly. >> by the way, i was walking out of fenway this past weekend. i'm there and my 15-year-old boy is in front of me. i'm looking out at the ballpark. i'm thinking about when my 35-year-old son and i were walking out of fenway after the '99 all star game, thinking about how my dad would take me to atlanta fulton county stadium. i just thought those words that james earl jones said at the end, so true.

so true about baseball. it marks our time. it's beautiful, willie. she doesn't get it. >> you know what? george and i went for the first time to city field and saw ohtani when the angels were here. in 1996 i was a yankee fan. you called a 1-800 number and you'd stay on hold for two days and we got bad tickets to the world series. we parked our rusted jeep in the auto repair shops around flushing. i had the same thought when i walked out of city field through those same streets thinking back to that experience with my dad. so when he says, let's have a catch, dad, it's the passage of time and how things change in relationship to the game and what it means for our families and friends. >> live picture.

>> we have a live shot of that? wow. that's unbelievable. >> it's pretty good stuff. i'm just saying, guys, that's a fine movie for like a 6-year-old. >> what! >> when you have people walk into the corn and walking out of the corn, you've lost me, okay? it's just ridiculous. kevin costner is really good. >> kevin costner is amazing. >> that was not good. >> as we look at the field of dreams, always remember this, willie and lemire, america has rolled on like an army of steamrollers. it's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. but baseball has marked the time. oh my god, i'm crying right now. how do we continue?

>> let's just go home. >> you were good, kid. you were good. can i just say also, because everybody wants to know this waking up in los angeles, what the hell is going on there? lemire, can i also say we all think about kevin costner. what an extraordinary part. >> that wasn't good. i like him. >> and james earl jones, unbelievable. when the vw van rolls around and he says moonlight, oh my god! burt lancaster as the doctor just turns in an extraordinary performance, lemire, just extraordinary. >> just perfect, and so understated. the moment where he gives up his dream and comes back and saves

the kid, it is a moment of moments. willie and i are blinking back tears. it is about family, about tradition, about baseball. it is one of the best. i might have to watch it again tonight, in fact, as we're talking about it. >> i'm going to move on. i'm embarrassed for you all. >> that's a nice short porch in left field. i feel like we could all go deep there. >> yeah. >> you know what we need to do, willie and lemire? we need to create a whiffle ball field of dreams. i'll plant the corn. >> in. >> we're in. >> in our studio. >> tj has decided where it's going to be built. >> mlb network has one in

secaucus. they do demos on there. we can go play whiffle ball over there. >> i just got triggered. >> scarborough country days. no passport required. only common sense allowed, my friend. >> now back in scarborough country. >> my other car is an suv and it's double parked in scarborough country. so many great memories there. can i just make one final recommendation? >> no. >> if you have a loved one that doesn't understand "field of dreams" and you've got to watch a baseball movie tonight, watch "the natural." they'll get that. >> incredible movie too. >> we're going to move on now, guys. just wanted to compliment jonathan lemire. i'm not sure how this devolved. joining the discussion is nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. >> he'll keep it on track. >> we'll get to our top story

now. the house of representatives returns to capitol hill today. speaker kevin mccarthy is set to formally endorse an impeachment inquiry into president biden thursday morning, according to two republican sources familiar with the speaker's intention. the inquiry would seek bank records and other documents from biden and his son hunter. >> john heilemann, we try to encourage the republicans not to keep putting their hand on the hot stove, but they don't listen. they seem hell bent on making sure that every one of those republicans that won in a bide. district in '22 get swept out of office in '24. >> well, speaking of hot stoves, can i go back to "field of dreams" for a second? >> oh no. >> just two pieces of trivia. first of all, burt lancaster, his last role on film in "field of dreams." i'm obviously on the side of the

angels here. here's the trivia question for the table, all you "field of dreams" fans. mika, you're wrong about this. who was offered the part before kevin costner? kevin costner had just made "bull durham," so they offered the part to someone else. who was the first choice? >> tom hanks. >> robert redford. >> boom! robert redford. >> exactly. misogynist. >> i heard willie go first. willie was first to the buzzer, joe. don't give me that. >> you know what you call that? man ears. [ laughter ] >> we're joking with you. we're joking with you!

>> hold on one second. women always tell the story. >> yeah! >> women always tell the story -- >> or have the idea. >> -- of bringing up something around a conference table. >> yeah. >> everybody ignores them. and then a man will say it five minutes later and everybody will go -- >> oh my god, that is such a good idea. >> yeah. >> that did not happen here, by the way. >> you go ahead now. let's talk about impeachment. >> hot stove, go! >> hey, look, joe, all across america there are tens, maybe hundreds of millions of people who want to see a better economy, who want to see better education for their kids, who want to have easier access to health care, who want to see gas

prices go down, some of them don't like joe biden. the country is evenly split. i tell you what you're not hearing across the country, is millions of people rising up and saying because of some potentially shady things, apparently shady things that joe biden's son hunter biden did in ukraine, we should impeach the president. i travel a fair amount. i don't hear that at the diners and truck stops and mcdonald's that i frequent when i travel around america. yet, because of people like matt gaetz, who's going to stand up today and say, apparently, that if kevin mccarthy doesn't lead an impeachment inquiry into joe biden, he's going to depose him as speaker and start that intrahouse insurrection that the right flank, the maga right has

been promising kevin mccarthy since the day that he became speaker. because of that, kevin mccarthy is going to apparently buckle, according to reporting from multiple sources this morning, and say, okay, it's time to do this impeachment inquiry. there are issues where republicans have a case to press against joe biden that would have traction in america and with swing voters. this is not one of them. of course, the only question is whether those republicans you mentioned who won in biden districts who will pay a price for this, are there going to be enough of them to keep this from getting to 218 votes in the house? we'll see. >> and willie, let's be really clear. this is where we are on the issue that republicans are going to bring up to impeach joe biden. hunter biden did things that were questionable. he did things that may have been criminal. it looks like he's going to be dealing with that for quite some

time. what republicans have been trying to prove for a very long time is that there was a connection between what hunter biden did and the money hunter biden got and joe biden. and they just haven't been able to do it. they put some text messages out there that should be investigated. that's what you do in congressional hearings, you investigate. that's what some sane, rational republicans have said. let's investigate it, and if there's a smoking gun, then fine, let's bring impeachment proceedings against biden. but even the "wall street journal" said of all of the efforts, there's smoke there, but we still haven't seen the fire. >> that's what chairman comer said as well. we've seen a lot of smoke, but we haven't seen fire.

presumably there would be evidence to those charges. but so far it's all about hunter biden without drawing that line to joe biden. this investigation is years old. you'd think they'd have something by now. let's get to sahil kapur. good morning. so kevin mccarthy will speak at this meeting. who else will we hear from, and what happens after the inquiry? why are they pushing this so hard? >> reporter: speaker mccarthy has been inching in this direction for some time now, and he is going to formally endorse an impeachment inquiry into president biden in these closed-door meetings this week. he will call it the logical next step in this inquiry. republicans are expecting to hear from some of the top investigators looking into president biden as well as his son hunter biden, including jim jordan and james comer.

republicans do not have direct evidence of wrongdoing for president biden. this looks like an inquiry in search of an impeachable offense. the first question for mccarthy is, does he have the votes? he's made clear he's not going to launch this unilaterally. he can only lose four votes within his republican conference before the whole thing collapses. he's faced skepticism on the conservative end and from center right conservatives and from multiple conservatives endangered in the 2024 election. let's have a look at what ken buck, the conservative congressman from colorado said about what's to come. quote, there is a perfect storm brewing in the house in the near future in september. he goes on to talk about the short-term funding bill, the impeachment issue, others who want to pursue policy measures

like immigration or potentially defunding president trump's prosecutors as part of a government appropriations bill. he says, quote, mccarthy has made promises on each of those issues to different groups, and now it is all coming due at the same time. what is that perfect storm about? there's an appropriations bill with a deadline of september 30th that they have to pass in order to prevent a government shutdown. mccarthy is dealing with those demands from his right and he's also squeezed by a slim majority in the house of representatives by republicans and the need to get these bills through a democratic-controlled senate and the white house. you mentioned matt gaetz and othe members making veiled or not-so-veiled threats to mccarthy. >> are you worried about the gavel bill? >> not at all. >> do you think they'll bring a motion to vacate?

[indiscernible] >> not at all worried about his gavel, mccarthy says. in his defense, he has been underestimated by his critics before. this is likely to be his most difficult task with all these issues coming up. >> and putting moderate republicans in a very difficult position. sahil kapur, thanks so much. jonathan lemire, we heard about a war room being set up at the white house in preparation for this. they expect this to perhaps go all the way to an impeachment vote. what else are they doing and how far do they think republicans will push this? >> the white house believes these two things are linked. this is mccarthy needing to placate those on the hard right and are unhappy about the debt ceiling bill. they believe he is going to try to go down this path. he's also receiving a lot of pressure from former president trump, who's nearly on a daily

basis suggesting that biden be impeached with no real evidence for that whatsoever. there are about two dozen people in this war room, they slowly built up over the year to deal with the house oversight probes, now gearing up toward impeachment and some of the hunter biden stuff as well. no white house wants to go down this path. impeachment inquiries are time consuming and expensive. this could politically backfire on republicans. this is out of step with what voters want. polls suggest there aren't too many voters who are that concerned about hunter biden. we should note, the far right in the house is extremely powerful. just this morning ken buck, those in the house freedom caucus were trying to recite a primary challenger against him. marjorie taylor greene and others have suggested he lose his positions on certain kbhit

committees. turning to some developments around the war in ukraine. minority leader mitch mcconnell took to the senate floor yesterday to urge lawmakers, including members of his own party, to continue federal spending for ukraine amid the ongoing war with russia. >> the united states isn't arming ukraine out of a sense of charity. we're backing a fellow democracy because it is in our direct interest to do so. this is american leadership. republicans should be pressing president biden to show more of it instead of dreaming about america's retreat. >> meanwhile, the bbc this morning cites japanese and south korean media outlets reporting that a space base in russia's far east may serve as the venue between a potential meeting of vladimir putin and kim jong-un. video out of russia this morning shows president vladimir putin touring the very same base.

reuters, the associated press and other outlets have reported that kim jong-un is now in russia. joining us leave from dnipro, ukraine, richard engel has more. richard. >> reporter: well, good morning. so that base, sort of a version of a cape canaveral is a missile launch facility not far from vladivostok. it seems to be the location where kim jong-un and vice president will meet potentially tomorrow. vladimir putin wasn't giving any indication, but he said he does have a trip planned to this launch facility. he says he has a trip coming there soon. he told the reporters who asked him the question what he was going to do there. he said you will see what happens when it happens.

something appears to be planned for that launch base. there are new images that have just come out in the last few moments, in fact, showing the north korean leader inside russian territory not far from that launch base in the far east of the country. north korean state television showed kim jong-un waving to top government and military officials as he left pyongyang on his bulletproof train for russia, and he has good reason to be smiling. as the slow-moving train crossed the russian border, kim is finally feeling needed, courted by vladimir putin. two of the leaders america is most wary of are coming together. putin attending an economic form in the eastern city of vladivostok is expected to greet kim with the full honors of a state visit. a new model of neutral relations and integration is being born, but not on a basis of western

standards, putin said. there's a more practical reason for the rare summit too. north korea produces artillery and missiles, which it aims at south korea, a close u.s. ally. but since the two koreas haven't fought a war in decades, the north has vast stockpiles of the weapons, which putin needs now to fend off ukraine's american-backed counteroffensive. >> i think the fact that russia is having to beg north korea for military support speaks to the effectiveness of our sanctions. >> reporter: the weapons transfer would be a violation of international sanctions, but for two states already under sanctions, that could be little deterrent. deals are already in motion. putin's defense minister in july in pyongyang to discuss an arms trade, joining the russian defense minister at a military parade. it's unclear what putin would

give kim in return, but it's expected to include food and support for north korea's advanced weapons systems. kim just oversaw the launch of what north korea calls its first tactical nuclear attack submarine. president putin's desire to keep this war in ukraine going has formed an alliance between china, russia and now north korea. mika. >> richard engel, thank you very much for that report. we reported yesterday that ukrainian officials are upset with elon musk as new information comes to light about the billionaire's influence in the war. in september of last year, musk reportedly stymied a ukrainian offensive against russian military ships in crimea by denying the ukrainians access to his starlink satellite network to prevent a drone attack on russia's naval fleet. it's something revealed in walter isaacson's new biography

of musk. we asked walter about it on the show yesterday. >> it was the night that the ukrainians were doing a sneak attack on the russian fleet in sebastopol. he told me that he wasn't allowing starlink to enable that. i got it slightly wrong. i thought he made the decision that night, but he said, no, previous they had geo fenced off crimea, but he didn't tell the ukrainians that, so they thought it was working there. that night they're sending him all these messages, all these text messages are in the book of saying, you've got to let us use it in this fight against the russian fleet in sebastopol. and he doesn't. he says no. at that point, i think he realizes he has too much power. i said have you talked to jake sullivan or general milley? that's when he decides he's going to sell some of these to the u.s. military and let the

u.s. government determine how they're used. >> ann applebaum, whose new piece is titled "what russia got by scaring elon musk." how did russia scare elon musk and was he duped by vladimir putin? >> well, according to isaacson and others, musk spoke to the russian ambassador to washington. he may also have spoken to putin himself. at one point he said he had and in another he did not. he was given the message that any attack on crimea will have a nuclear response. this is, of course, standard russian propaganda. they seek to frighten with the specter of nuclear war. he believed that, he bought it and he prevented the ukrainians from finishing their attack. i think what the story hasn't revealed yet is actually the same team that carried out that

attack that was aborted in september tried it again in october, and the attack succeeded. these were sea drones. they hit one major russian battleship. they hit several other ships as well. they hit a submarine. the attack was successful, and there was no nuclear war. in other words, musk was wrong to have prevented it the first time. it also indicates that when the ukrainians are allowed to carry out their attacks, when they're allowed to fight the way they want to fight, the russians tend to step back, because for a whole month after that october attack when they hit the ships, no russian ships left the port of sebastopol in crimea. these ships hit ukrainian cities and kill civilians, so the drone attacks saved lives, they kept the ships in port. further drone attacks since then

have also made the russian navy more wary and more careful about what it does, which is a good thing. >> the bigger question for me is, how did the united states government ever get in the position where we allow one person to have so much power over communications in war zones? why haven't we filled that void? why hasn't nato, the eu, other pro-democracy countries and organizations filled that void? >> so i think the decision to bring in starlink at the beginning of the war was one of those things that was done very quickly as a kind of emergency. people didn't really think it through. they didn't think of musk playing some kind of role in the war. since that incident and several others, ukrainians have gotten other kinds of communications, so that second drone attack was carried out with a different system. as i understand it, some of

musk's influence is now reduced. some of the starlink controls are now run by the u.s. military. but you're right. historically defense contractors, once they sell their plane or ship or tank to the u.s. government don't get a say in how those things are used. this was a very unusual situation, and we have to hope it doesn't get repeated. >> you mentioned this idea that ukrainians, when they've been able to carry out these daring operations, they've been fairly successful and russia hasn't done much in response. what do you make of the counteroffensive, and have they made enough progress between now and the end of the fighting season to make sure their allies stay with them? >> one of the issues with the counteroffensive is that it was slowed down by the slow delivery of u.s. and european weapons. some of that happened for the

same reason that musk cut off starlink. people were afraid to give the ukrainians long-range missiles and tanks, then they were afraid to give them planes. there was this constant fear of the russian response. some call it self-deterrence. the slow arrival of those weapons meant the russians were able to build up an enormous minefield, tank traps, a kind of defense system that almost no modern army has ever had to cross. while the counteroffensive continues forward, it is moving slowly, it is happening. i think people had hope there would be more by the end of the year, but the ukrainians keep showing that they're willing to keep going. right now, frankly, there isn't an alternative. the russians have not given up on their major goal in this war, which is to occupy all of ukraine and take over kyiv and destroy the country. so it's not as if they have a

choice. >> anne applebaum, thank you very much. always great to have you on. john heilemann, so the counteroffensive is stalled. mitch mcconnell is going on the senate floor asking republicans to stand shoulder to shoulder with the administration and with other republicans and with ukraine. some people may be surprised by the counteroffensive. i had a discussion, i think, in february or march of this past year with a top official at the pentagon and a top official at the white house, who both quietly said in february, yeah, this isn't going to go anywhere. like, we're at a stalemate now. we're going to give them weapons and keep supporting them, but this is the reality that the russians aren't going to be able to take over ukraine and the

ukrainians aren't going to be able to get every russian soldier out of their country. so they didn't finish the sentence, but where they were going was, at some point we're going to have to find a way toward peace, or else this is going to look like world war i for the next three, four, five years. when is that going to happen politically? at what point does congress say, let's figure out a way out of this? >> yeah. look, joe, i was there with biden in poland when he went over for the one-year anniversary of the war back in march, february. it was clear the people around biden and his national security team at the highest level could see even that early that stalemate was setting in and you were looking at potentially a war that without any major paradigm shift where the west or

the east intervened in some active way on one side or the other, you were going to end up with years potentially of brutal, bloody trench warfare that would go on for a very long time. i think if this is the test right now of one of the great fault lines in our politics that doesn't get enough attention, where does the republican party come down on this? the bipartisan consensus is the longer this goes on, the harder it's going to be to find a consensus about what to do. we want to jump in right now. the pennsylvania state police are holding a press conference about the escaped inmate cavalcante. let's listen in. >> what was the response time? >> minutes. >> do we believe he's injured? >> we have no reason to believe he is injured as a result of that shooting? [ inaudible question ] >> i think he is just trying to survive and avoid being captured

right now. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. >> have you changed your tactics? >> we have considered him dangerous right from the very start. it changes nothing. we have always considered him to be a risk. we just now absolutely know that he has a weapon. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. yes, he has been in that area before. [ inaudible question ] >> we're not evacuating homes at this point. we're asking residents to be vigilant and lock their doors and call us if there is any issue or concern. [ inaudible question ] >> it was several shots. i don't have that number. [ inaudible question ] >> not as a result of anything with the search. we have had a few minor incidents or issues with officers out on the perimeter and things, but nothing related directly to the search.

>> has he gotten help from anyone at any point? >> i'm not going to comment on whatever assistance he may or may not have received. at this point, i believe he is beyond assistance and he is in that perimeter and we will actively hunt until we find him. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. >> is it imperative to push now especially with the firearm? >> we have pushed from the very start. we have seen this as a high priority throughout. the search area is probably close to 3 miles across east to west and 2 to 2 1/2 miles north to south. it's a large area, wooded, hilly terrain. it's not something that is a matter of just sending a few people in and searching. we've had a number of tactical teams operating in there through

the night. we continue to have teams operating in there now. it will take a long time to clear that entire area. but we will continue until we do locate him. [ inaudible question ] >> you know, some similar challenges, the difference here, it's a little larger area. so any time you're in an area like this, you can imagine if you went out and took a several square mile area and had to try to find a single person who is trying to hide, it's a challenge. [ inaudible question ] >> as i said before, no perimeter is ever 100% impenetrable. we have absolutely split up a very strong perimeter. we'll do our best to contain him in there and capture him. [ inaudible question ] >> there are some creeks in there, yes.

>> -- he is armed and dangerous. are the officers wearing tactical gear? >> the officers have been wearing their gear throughout this entire search. again, we have always considered him dangerous. we now have confirmation that he has a firearm. the tactics are the same. >> how did he get the ammunition? >> it was with the firearm. it was with the firearm. [ inaudible question ] >> are you searching along the tunnels from where he was last night? >> we are focusing on that entire area. again, we have supervisors on the ground out there assessing any issues or risks of escape and we are trying to address any possibility out there.

[ inaudible ] >> what happened? >> they have been searching for him. it was only minutes. but in that amount of time, he traveled a significant distance. we've been utilizing dogs and tactical teams. so just because we find a footprint doesn't mean we necessarily know which direction he traveled. in fact, he traveled south and then went back north. it's not a matter of just charge into the woods and knowing it's that-a-way. it's a matter of sweeping methodically through the woods, checking buildings and so forth. we don't have the luxury of charging up the nearest trail and hoping that's the direction he went. >> -- scoped out that house where he stole the firearm, have you been watching that house? >> i don't believe so.

i think at that point he was being pushed by the teams that were pursuing him from the original sighting. in my opinion, i believe it was a crime of opportunity. i think he went in there probably trying to hide, the garage door was open. he didn't, i believe, recognize that the owner was in there. i think he was probably looking for a place to hide, ran for that garage, saw the firearm, grabbed that, encountered the homeowner and fled with the firearm. >> do you have an estimate? >> 8 to 10 square miles probably. [ inaudible ] >> do you have any plans to change the messaging in this new containment area to really emphasize the importance of locking -- >> i don't know how much more i could emphasize it, sir.

i have been very clear about securing things. we have sent several reverse 911 messages through the night again emphasizing that point and advising residents. i can't be any clearer that they need to secure things. >> do you have maps of culverts? >> we're working with a variety of maps. we have county emergency management people on sight and have had them on site here in the command post so we have access to available information. [ inaudible question ] >> how many officers do you have on the ground right now? >> we're well past the 400. we're probably around 500 right now. it's very fluid. we have people still coming in. we've been releasing people held

overnight. we have people who have been on duty for 20 hours, 24 hours or more. we're relieving them. we held people over because of the seriousness of the situation last night. we're working through replacing all of those. we have people coming in from all over pennsylvania to support this effort and to be able to sustain it and our partner agencies are doing the same not only from pennsylvania but from out of state as well with various specialty teams. [ inaudible question ] >> no. this is the area where he left the van. it was very close in proximity to where the van was abandoned and where i talked about i believed he was in the woods and was likely hiding. >> has the homeowner gotten the reverse 911 call? >> i can't provide any more detail right now. i can tell you he encounted him, he did call us very quickly and

did what we asked him to do with regard to that. [ inaudible question ] >> coventrycoventryville road. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. [ inaudible question ] >> which homes are you referring to? >> he was on the ring door camera. >> well, the ring door camera is not in this search area. the home with the garage that we talked about is within the search area, and we are actively working that area. >> does he have food. >> i don't know. [ inaudible question ] >> i don't have reports of any other houses he's been in. doesn't mean he hasn't been. >> what has gone wrong here?

have you underestimated him? >> sir, i don't know why you would think something has gone wrong. our law enforcement has done an amazing job tracking him. the question about is he out of state, and he told you we were actively searching this area, our people have done an amazing job. i'm very proud of the work they have done and continue to do. our agencies are all working very well together. i believe we will be successful in the long run. >> have you changed the posture of your troopers and law enforcement in the field pursuing him now that he is armed? >> we have always considered him to be very dangerous. i have stressed that in every one of my press conferences and briefing i have given to our people out there searching. we consider him desperate. we consider him dangerous. all this does is confirm for us that he has a weapon.

>> is he desperate enough to use that weapon to target law enforcement? >> he's killed two people previously. i would suspect he's disparate enough to use that weapon. >> any efforts to prevent a carjacking? >> we're actively working that area. i don't know what other efforts we could make to prevent a carjacking. we've asked people to secure everything. anything that occurs in there we will be on top of. we're making every effort to find him as rapidly as we possibly can. >> is there still shelter-in-place orders? >> people can leave their homes. that's entirely up to them. we have not tried to direct anybody to shelter in place. we have asked them to secure their homes. it's up to them if they want to leave. if they need assistance, they can let us know.

>> does coventryville have a video of what happened last night? >> no. [ inaudible question ] >> i have been in regular communication with the governor's office and the governor himself. the governor has been closely monitoring this entire situation, has offered any resources that are necessary, has offered to contact other states if need be. he's been closely monitoring this. he's on top of it. we continue to keep him advised. [ inaudible question ] >> he did not, to my knowledge, make any other aggressive moves. they confronted each other. the shots were fired and he fled. i'm not going to release anything else about the homeowner at this point. >> do you know how close they got to each other, the homeowner and cavalcante? >> a number of feet. >> anything you would like to

tell us at this juncture? >> no. i think, again, i stress please secure things and not just within the perimeter, in the vicinity around it and please call us immediately if they see something suspicious, if they believe cavalcante might be in the area. we need that information. again, it's a large search area. we're going to very thoroughly search it, but their assistance is very much appreciated. [ inaudible question ] >> we are pushing through with the terrain with tactical teams, but it is not really practical to suggest that we could line up a line three miles long and push in one long line through there. we've got to methodically search it. we've got trained teams that are

doing that and we're going to cover that ground as quickly and thoroughly as we possibly can. thank you very much. we'll get additional information to you as things unfold. thank you. >> we've been watching breaking news out of chester county, pennsylvania, where pennsylvania state police are giving new information about a convicted killer who has been on the run after escaping prison for 13 days. danelo cavalcante. state police say a motorist saw him at one point. cavalcante had stolen a car, had dumped the car. ultimately he entered a home, entered into the garage of a home, and the homeowner approached him and fired at him with a gun. cavalcante was able to steal a gun from that garage, a .22 and ammunition to go with it, and he fled with that firearm. police do not believe he was

injured in the altercation. pennsylvania state police also say they have about 400 to 500 officers right now searching the perimeter of this area. they feel confident they will get him, but keep in mind this convicted killer has been on the run for almost two weeks. again, homeowners and people who work in the chester county, pennsylvania, area, specifically the town of south coventry township, are being told to secure their homes, secure their cars and be on the watch for cavalcante. they say do not approach him. he is absolutely dangerous. we'll be right back with more breaking news and more "morning joe" in just a moment. breaki nngews and more "morning joe" in just a moment. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪

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just moments ago the largest antitrust trial of the past 20 years began in washington. google faces a massive legal

threat over allegations of violating the u.s. antitrust laws. the department of justice expected to argue the search giant abused its powers as a monopoly. let's bring in co-anchor of "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. so what is this all about? >> it is about dominance and monopoly power. it is not illegal unto itself to be a monopoly, but it is illegal or could be illegal in how you create your monopoly or maintain your monmonopoly. and in this case the department of justice is accusing google of using its market power to maintain its monopoly power in the world of search. one of the ways that it argues it is doing it is it pays something on the order of $15 billion to $20 billion to apple. when you search something, google is the default and they pay for that privilege. similarly they pay samsung for

the privilege of being the default browser or the default search engine on these phones. so there is a question about sort of how they are using that pow ergs how they are using their money to gain power or to keep power. and that is what this case is all about. brings back a lot of memories back to the case around microsoft, probably biggest antitrust case in the tech world since what we're talking about today. >> so if the government wins it case, what changes about google just as a practical question, how are things different? >> look, there are some people who think that ultimately this is an effort to try to break google up you in its entirety. that is probably unlikely. but what it could mean, they could say, hey, google, you can't pay apple to be the default search engine. that would open up the possibility for example that michael's bing could become the default search engine. or maybe some other competitor could be there.

it would open up a lot of opportunities potentially possibilities for competitors that are trying to be in the space that really aren't today to get in there. and i think that that is what you might see potentially. >> a lot of people watching that one closely. i have to ask but this deal struck at the 11th hour before monday night football, i think that was the pressure point in the end between charter communications and disney to get disney channels back to millions of subscribers. >> huge deal. obviously a lot of folks missed out on watching the u.s. open and other sports and other television that was being broadcast on espn and a number of other abc channels. in this instance, a deal was struck. it is both good news and bad news for disney and good news and bad news for the world of cable and linear cable in the future. in this instance, disney is going to be selling its disney plus service through charter. that was a big point of contention in this deal, what happens to all of these services

that you now see called over the top where disney and other folks are trying to get straight to the consumer with these other services. now disney plus if you are a charter or spectrum customer will have access to a disney plus at what are called wholesale prices. charter wanted to all that for free. they wanted to say in the future since all of you are offering all these other new apps and services, we want to offer that for free to our customer, they will have to pay, but that is a bit of what that fight was all about. >> let's be honest, they don't want to put up with angry jets fans. >> exactly. >> andrew, thank you so much. speaking of that game, jets fan hoping it was all a bad dream. they won but it hardly matters because their brand new superstar quarterback, four plays into his jets career, goes down with what looks like we'll get the mri results later today,

but looks like a season-ending achilles ending. >> yeah, and they feel cursed. aaron rodgers will not have a passing yard all season if this is an achilles injury. one wonders whether or not he could ever play again. simply devastating for jets fans who had such expectations for this season. this was the season they were going to do it, aaron rodgers their final piece and now it looks like he is gone. >> yeah, the guy to complete the puzzle looks like out for the season. that does it for us. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in just 90 sends. anytg but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids.

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right now on ana cabrera reports, breaking news with the manhunt for an escaped killer intensifying this morning. police this pennsylvania now revealing he is armed after he stole a rifle last night. they have advising people to stay inside and lock the doors. what more we've just learned about the latest sightings overnight. plus new twist in the federal election case against donald trump. the legal move his team just made in a bid to get the judge to step aside. also ahead with just hours until house lawmakers return to the hill, we've learned