to be any evidence of any wrong doing by president biden and fears from both sides of the aisle that this process is cheapening impeachment itself which is supposed to be rare and for grave circumstances. national political correspondent for axios alex thompson. thank you for joining us. thanks to all of you for getting up way too early for us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. have you found anything illegal while he was actually in office? >> well, we found a lot that's certainly unethical. we found a lot that should be illegal. >> there's no evidence that joe biden did anything illegally. >> well, if you look at the laptop and the emails between the president's son and associates they went to great lengths to hide. >> hold on a second, congressman. did you just say that the informant is now missing? >> well, we're hopeful that we could find the informant. >> make it easy for us, what was

the crime? >> well, the crime is that creating policy for money. >> which policy? >> well, we're going to get into that. >> do you believe that this is now officially the joe biden bribery allegation? and do you believe that you will be able to prove that? jim comber? >> i sure hope so. and i do believe that there's a lot of smoke. and where there's smoke there's fire. >> i sure -- i sure hope so. i sure hope so. >> i hope so. james comber, next time we have that, can we have the theme song of "green acres" behind, i think arnold the pig, from "greening aers" by the way one of the great characters in 1960s television. >> i actually remember "green acres" would do a better job, do a better job than james comer.

i love that moment where one of the hosts, willie, goes, wait, wait, are you telling me -- are you telling me that the informant is missing? well, we sure hope we can find him. >> i think they still haven't found him. >> you know what, because he's an international fugitive. you know why he's an international fugitive, because he's an agent of the communist chinese party, an arms dealer, because he's been accuse of selling illegal -- this is -- this is a tic-tac-toe with paul the middle here. you got, you got an illegal arms dealer, an agent of the communist chinese people. >> people are just waking up. >> i know. good morning, washington, d.c.

and then over here, x marks the square. and then you got a guy willie, that was illegally smuggling iranian oil to the communist chinese party. that is who james comer is running with. all to be able to say, well, i don't know. i sure hope so. >> awful lot of smock, he says. awful lot of smoke and that might mean there's fire. they're going to go through this, at least an impeachment inquiry speaker mccarthy announced yesterday without a vote. an extraordinary moment i thought something we discussed yesterday where congressman matt gaetz just listened to the way he talks to speaker mccarthy. it's beyond disrespect. it's we own you. we made you speaker. if you don't do all these things we're telling you to do right now, we're going to vacate the

chair and you're out of your job. it is a bizarre dynamic here. and still, still, no evidence presented, no definitive evidence that joe biden had anything to do with all -- this is all about hunter biden. so if they have the evidence, they had five years to show it since this investigation started. let's see it. >> the thing is, the thing is, again, not to keep going back to pop culture. but wilford brimsly, show me your evidence, counselor. we'll get some subpoenas. go upstairs and get subpoenas and bring them down. but give me your case. give me your case. and i forget the guy's name at the end. he couldn't make the case against paul newman. but then again who could. paul newman never looking any better than he did leaning up against the wall in absence of malice, i think everybody here

is just doing their job. any way, they couldn't make the case and can't make the case now. i can make a case, though, for kevin mccarthy. that is, kevin, you need to tell people to go to hell. if somebody ever said to me -- >> immediate total compliance or we will remove you. >> well, let me just ask you, mika. >> yes. >> what if somebody ever said to me in any situation -- >> oh, my. >> at the gates of hell if satan said to me, immediate total compliance or what? >> we will remove you. >> yeah. or we will remove you. i would say again, f.a. and f.o. it is not too early. you know, it's like almost noon in london. >> that's right. >> we have a lot of people watching in london, willie. but i do ask this question, and i know maybe this means i'm an old man and shouldn't talk this way, but i'm just going to talk

this way, willie. what kind of man would allow somebody to talk to him publicly. and bow down to him. i don't teach -- forget about manhood. even though this is a question of manhood and masculinity, my daughter would never in a billion years -- she's -- she would never in a billion years allow somebody to talk to her that way. i'm sure your daughter, your son, we don't teach -- we wouldn't allow our children to act that way. who is kevin mccarthy. why does he allow anybody to talk to him that way. it's astounding that he is that weak and timid and speaker of the house. >> he's not a back bencher, a guy in theory, running the party, running that caucus and

we'll play the clip at the way matt gaetz talked to him. it is like, you are sit, stay, roll over, do everything we tell you to do or else. and here he is doing it. here he is doing it. it is extraordinary moment in our politics. as i say again, this is all so far about hunter biden. we said a million times on this show, if he committed crimes, you have to be prosecuted for the crimes. if he goes to jail, so be it. there's still no line drawn to joe biden. everything you hear is about these vagaries about a biden crime family. culture of corruption, but they're never specific about it because they don't have it. >> yeah. jonathan lemire even had supreme court justices wife talking about the biden crime family. let's overthrow american democracy and put them on barges. nobody has any evidence at all. none at all. you've got some text messages. i would love to know what the text messages mean. i would love to get people under

oath. i would love to have them talking. that's what investigations are for. so investigate. that's what criminal proceedings are for. let those criminal proceedings go forward. if there are any crimes, you know what, let the chips fall where they may. but again, i keep going back to, "the wall street journal" editorial page. no fan. no fan of joe biden. that's for sure. they attack him everyday. but they even said of comer, here is some smoke. you have nothing else. and yet they keep chugging along. i don't know. maybe they'll hire arnold the pig as their impeachment counsel. he couldn't do any worse than james comer. >> yeah. mccarthy keeps using the word allegations yesterday. never presented any evidence whatsoever. there has not been any presented that now president biden had anything to do with hunter biden's business dealings. in fact, some of those secret

witnesses they could find as opposed to the fugitive on the lam devin archer testified that president biden and hunter biden didn't discuss business. the republicans haven't been able to put this case together yet. it's mccarthy bowing down to the fors of the right from matt gaetz and others who they say gave him his speakership. it's also donald trump everyday pressuring him publicly and privately to go through with this, to create a what aboutism about trump's own legal issues going into next year's elections. and to be clear, the white house is not excited about this. no white house welcomes an impeachment inquiry. they're time consuming, draining, can end up in unexpected directions. they are prepared. they spent a year getting ready for this and they feel like the politics of this are on their side. poll after poll shows that voters don't believe there is a there there. they think this could end up really backfiring against republicans, helping biden potentially in next year's presidential election but also

endangering republicans in the house, particularly those that won in biden districts who are going to be made to have to make a very uncomfortable decision and mccarthy should be noted he just a few weeks ago said even impeachment inquiry should take a vote of the full house. well, that was some hypocrisy there. he flip-flopped, didn't do it because he didn't want to expose those republicans to that vote and knew he didn't have the numbers he needed. >> the thing is, willie, we talk on the show a good bit about these issues that are going to impact suburban voters, independent voters, swing voters. we're not throwing things against the wall. it happened. it happened in '22. it happened in '20. and it's being supersized now for supervalue meal stupid in 2024. i was talking to a group of people yesterday, from the suburbs of philly.

life-long republicans. no more would want to vote for joe biden, probably won't vote for joe biden, probably just stay home. lifelong republicans. you know what they were talking about, how local officials around them, their entire lives, their entire lives. and by the way, by the way, if you're sitting at home in kansas city right now, go chiefs, and you're sitting there going, well, what's he talking about. come on. this is -- these are just east coast elitists. well, no. no. i'm just talking to people in suburbs, suburbs of atlanta, suburbs of philly, suburbs of detroit. and philly, they're saying that they had republican elected officials all around in the suburbs of philly, their whole life. and they said they're gutted.

you can't find them anymore. you can't find them in so many places around philadelphia because donald trump and this toxic brand of trumpism, republicanism, is gutting the republican party and the suburbs of philly, the suburbs of atlanta, all these other suburban areas that have always been the foundation of republican majorities, foundation of republican victories and local levels, the foundation of republican party and presidential races. and things like this, impeachment inquiry, just like six week abortion bans, just like people trying to claim that people that kill police officers on january the 6th responsible for the deaths, that's gutting the republican party. so, we're not sitting here going, hey, let's let

progressives like pass their progressive vote. no, we're not saying that. we're saying republicans, save yourself if you can. but, they say monumentally incapable of doing it, willie. this is just one more step forward. this is not going to hurt joe biden. this is going to help democrats politically. >> and if you -- in a parallel universe, if you were the speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy, you would smack aside these members who were making all this noise, stay focussed. get down to business. we need to win next year. we need to win the house. we need to win back the senate. we need to win the presidency and yet kevin mccarthy goes along for the ride. we were talking about it, here is what he said yesterday drerkting the house oversight committee, to open an inquiry centered on hunter's family business dealings. >> these are allegations of abuse of power, obstruction and corruption. and they warrant further

investigation by the house of representatives. that's why today i am directing our house committee to open a formal impeachment inquiry into president joe biden. it appears that the president's family has been offered special treatment by biden's own administration. treatment that not otherwise would have received if they were not related to the president. i do not make this decision lightly. and regardless of your party or who you voted for, these facts should concern all americans. >> willie, i don't even know. i really don't even know how to begin. >> this is painful. >> i know jared and i talk to him. you know, jared worked for his father-in-law. >> ivanka worked for her father. >> ivanka worked for her father. jared got billions of dollars directly related to the work he

did for his father-in-law in an official capacity -- >> from. >> -- from the saudis and from others. and ivanka, while donald was meeting with president xi, got all of these trademark waivers in china so she could sell her goods. they were fast tracked in china after trump was elected. and by the way, you know, we don't talk about it much on this show. this happens in politics. not as obviously as it did with donald trump and his family and certainly not when you're talking about the billions of dollars, but kevin mccarthy, saying we're doing this because the administration may have helped their own family. does he think everybody is as

stupid as hell and don't realize that we're talking about billions of dollars going into the trump family based on business dealings while donald trump was president that they cashed in on right after the presidency? >> yeah, you want to have a good read today. google jared kushner, saudi sovereign wealth fund. you'll be interested in what you see there. yeah, all this performative outrage about the alleged biden crime family, they couldn't find fraction of this outrage about, let's say, the former presidents dealing nuclear secrets, leading an attempted coup against the united states government. we have seen none of this level of outrage from these republicans about that. but here we are. let's bring in the rogers chair, historian jon meacham, and susan

page, and charlie sykes. good morning, everybody. you've been listening along here through "green acres" paul newman and wilford grimly. checking all the boxes. >> there is no operation petticoat but i live in hope. >> guess how, it's a four-hour show. plenty of time. let's take the long view of impeachment and everything else and what republicans are doing here. >> we're at a point where it's politics is programming. that's what this is. they needed a new season of something. so they dropped it. and the hope, i think, is there is so much confusion. it's what about this. what about that. that is it clouds everyone's sense, they're hoping it clouds capacity to make judgments and assign the correct weight to different issues. and i go back to this question,

are we up to this? are we up to self government in an era in which the leadership class of one of the two major parties has decided to be wholly captive to, at best, a 35% group in the country. and the delta here is 34% is the number of folks who still approved a joe mccarthy after he was censured in '54, '55. there's another 14 or 15% of the country that for various reasons go along with trumpist base. and if enough of those folks, this is what you're talking about it, if enough of those people can say you know what,

actually the country and the institution is more important than winning the afternoon, then perhaps we're okay. i think it's that fundamental. i don't mean to be overly grand or overly alarmist, but kevin mccarthy accidentally told the truth about benghazi. didn't that cost him the job once. we're just trying to create problems for hillary. and i'm not being naive. jefferson and hamilton hated each other. i understand that. but, we they have now gone to the most serious constitutional remedies as temporary weapons of war. >> jonathan, which you point out, james comer did the same thing, look at biden's poll numbers since we started this investigation. >> a number of republicans said this is a political play. speaker mccarthy, we note, seems

to be owned by the far right of his party and someone donald trump referred to as my kevin for years and never pushed back on that. jon meacham, we are in a new place here. are there moments in history you can compare this to in terms of an impeachment push, must be so grave, so rare, so serious, but a party held and pushed back against the fringes and said, no, we're not going to do this. yet this time mccarthy is seemingly unable to do that. >> no. the politics of impeachment in the major cases you can always find a precedent for what you're looking for. the republican -- the radical republicans tried -- started trying to impeach andrew johnson in december of 1865. but the fact that that's the precedent, reconstruction, civil war, is deeply disturbing. i think, sure, there could be a

backlash. it may be that our analogies to the 1990s are pointless at this juncture. i think one of the things we all have to be careful about or at least i'll speak for myself, what i feel i have to be careful about in talking about this is one of the problems at this hour is folks like us totally understandably still speak as if there's a conventional reality. as if gravity works. as if the stars are somehow still in alignment. and they're really not. right? donald trump was president of the united states. and tried to overthrow the government of the united states. and then we fall back -- understandably, on well did biden have a good week or a bad week? that's not really the question anymore. the question is are you for the constitution or are you against it? and i don't think this week is going to make that conversation

any saner. >> you know, charlie, though, i've been arguing for some time that gravity is returning. you ask fox shareholders they will tell you they've got 787 million reasons to believe that actually just lying because you feel like lying about a private company costs you $787 million. with another billion dollars still out there. if you ask the infowars guy if gravity has returned, whether he admits it or not, there's some sandy hook parents will show you that gravity returned. the leader of the proud boys and all these other people who decided they were going to use american flags that our soldiers, sailers, marines, airmen fought for for hundreds of years to protect and defend this country but instead they use them as weapons of war against law enforcement officers, they're going to jail for 20 years, 22 years, some of them will die in prison. gravity has returned. and i really do believe that the

same will happen with this stupid impeachment inquiry. if they continue down the same path they've continued down, they're admitting at the beginning, we got nothing. we got nothing. there's smoke. we got nothing. i'm just curious your thoughts about it, what it says about kevin mccarthy that he is so weak he allows himself to be bulied by back benchers and what it means by his past party and what impact it will have like in states wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, georgia and arizona. >> well, you may be right that gravity is returning, but clearly the congress is full of helium and you're seeing what kevin mccarthy is doing. he is trying to defy political gravity. i think one thing is perfectly clear is that this impeachment inquiry and james comer are not ready for prime time. they don't have much substance. so, you know, again, i tend to

lean toward what jon was saying, that we we're in this strange new era where sometimes we go through the motions as if everything is the same and yet everything is completely broken. so we'll have this massive stress test coming up with this hearing. and i tend to think that this is going to backfire, that many ways republicans in the house by launching this inquiry without having the goods have actually thrown joe biden a lifeline and that you will see a blow back against all of this. but, it's also important to understand what they are doing. and why donald trump has been pushing this so hard because if everybody is a crook then nobody is a crook. right? if everybody is impeached, then impeachment is no big deal. that's why they're flooding the zone. that's why they're throwing so much stuff up against the wall so that at some point all of donald trump's criminality becomes just simply lost in this

mass slurry of what aboutism. well, what about this? what about that? the confusion becomes the strategy. the distraction becomes the strategy. but do your question, things like impeaching the president are not going to win voters back in the suburbs of trying to impeach a supreme court justice in wisconsin is not going to tip that swing state back toward the republicans. but apparently they cannot help themselves at the moment. this is their strategy. throw up as much stuff against the wall and try to attack every institution. try to eliminate every guardrail, discredit the media, discredit the courts, discredit is judges. and now use the ultimate constitutional weapon of impeachment to try to discredit the biden family. >> you know, and susan page, there's still the issue of funding the government and preventing a shutdown, but we

asked at the top of the hour who is kevin mccarthy at this point. and the question is he whoever this guy wants him to be. here is matt gaetz. >> mr. speaker, you are out of compliance with the agreement that allowed you to assume this role. the path forward for the house of representatives is to either bring you into immediate, total compliance or remove you. >> i mean, susan page, your thoughts also on the status of trying to fund the government. but how does he respond to that? is he going to bow down to that? >> well, first, mika i would like to say i think for the fourth hour of "morning joe," you might have a section called stuff jon meacham, pose historical questions to jon meacham.

to your question, i was thinking, nancy pelosi had a narrow majority when he was speaker of the house the last time around. can you imagine a democratic member of her caucus standing up and giving a speech like that, making a challenge like that to her? there would be consequences. they would not be for nancy pelosi. they would be for the member who dared to challenge and humiliate their leader in that way. he is dealing from a position of weakness, this impeachment ploy is an effort to get through the spending battle. it's not clear he has a way to get an off ramp to fund the government, the most basic tack of governing, the most basic task for the house of representatives in the senate. the contrast with the senate pretty striking. the senate doing its business the way it used to be done. so i think can mccarthy keep his job and get government done? it's not at all clear what the answer to that is at the moment. >> willie, again, susan, you're talking about funding the

government. you were there with me, you as a reporter, me as a member of the republican revolution, '94. one of the dpsh we were going 100 miles an hour and then did the government shutdown and ran into a brick wall. we just did. bill clinton beat us because the very people that made the difference in our victory in '94 started going, wait a second, wait. we didn't hire you guys to shut down the government. we hired you to get things done. and it was a real wakeup call for us. so again, we're talking about impeaching somebody, starting an inquiry while admitting you don't have the evidence to do so. and then what's next, a government shutdown that again, is going to fall on the republicans. >> you know, i remember so clearly that showdown between president clinton and speaker

gingrich. in the white house there was considerable concern what would the blow back be. enormous relief when it turned out that americans blamed gingrich and the republicans for the shutdown. and as you said, very damaging for republicans who had been on kind of a role having seized control of the house for the first time in so many decades. >> yeah. it was shocking for us. jon, why don't we go ahead -- we don't have to wait until the 9:00 hour. >> go. >> the fourth hour. talk about petticoat junction. i find and i think you probably do and others do, find relief in reading history and seeing that maybe these just aren't the worst of all times. i know we're going through a terrible time. but you know, somebody watches ken burns documentary on vietnam and sees what happened in 1968. you're like, yeah, we're good. we need to get more votes than

the other side. you talk about mccarthy. anybody that wants to be terrified, really doesn't understand how terrifying that was, read larry tie's biography on joe mccarthy, demagogue, and you see in there a situation that in many ways even more frightening than where we were. people's lives were destroyed. people killed themselves. it was a nightmare. the republican party including one of my heroes, dwight eisenhower, not only went along with it for a while, but stepped aside as mccarthy was destroying his mentor, one of the greatest public servants of the 20th century, general george marshall. we could find other times. you look at the horrifying laws regarding segregation, the jim crow laws. we have been through a lot of bad times. i want to focus, though, on a guy you wrote about and i think you may win a pulitzer prize

writing about. andrew jackson. the governing class, the ruling class and the elites and whomever else he established in washington, d.c., horrified by what he did and he did some pretty horrifying things in retrospect. talk about it. talk about how maybe we haven't been through this before. but the united states has not been a, bright, shining experiment for 240 years. we had some rough patches we had to sort through. >> absolutely. it's remarkable that we made it this far when you think about it because fundamentally it's a human enterprise. this sounds somewhat cliche, but it's true. governments as good as we are, right, our dispositions of hardened mind determine what's possible, what seems -- what's beyond the pale, not just the

lert of the law, it's the spirit of the law. what andrew jackson did for all of his manifold sins, he did two important thing. one is he faced down south carolina, who wanted to pick and choose which federal laws they followed. which everyone saw an attempt to begin to protect slavery from abolitionism. and secondly, when in 1824, when he lost the presidential election, he won the popular vote, lost the presidential election in the house of representatives, he gave it a hashtag. he called it a corrupt bargain. but he went back to nashville and won again. he didn't summon troops. he didn't call for insurrection. he followed the rule of law. and we are as a country at this point, you know, we all had this debate about 1619 or 1776, i would submit we're a country that really as we understand it

has been in existence since 1965. the civil rights act of '65, immigration of nationality act of '65 really created for the first time a multiethnic, multiracial democracy. therefore if you think about it, the first major federal election we had in this country was in 1968. 20 minutes ago historically. and so of course it's been difficult. of course we have failed to realize the promise. the point is at critical moments just enough of us have done the right thing. and it's never been 90/10. sometimes 60/40, but not often. more often it's been 52/48. let's hope we can get to the 52 and that 52 are in the right states in 2024. >> charlie sykes to that point, "wall street journal's" op-ed

this morning says impeachment is the new center. which is it's okay to open this inquiry if you have something here but let's not use this as a volley back and forth. to what jon is saying, just enough republicans may walk away watching all this, exhausting by and finding it distasteful they're using it to cheaply. when you look at that clip of matt gaetz scolding the speaker of the house kevin mccarthy in that way, talking down to him in that way, it is the product of the deal kevin mccarthy made back in january when finally took 15 votes to make him speaker of the house, he made that deal and now the bill is coming due for him. >> absolutely. this was inevitable. this was the ticket that kevin mccarthy bought and the bargain he struck that he figured he was going to carve off one concession after another. you know, he made too many promises to too many lunatics.

i'm trying to remember who said that. now the bill is coming due. so he apparently felt that becoming speaker was worth giving up every shred of his self respect. the downside of this, there's a certain tragic comic element to all this. but the tragic part is that he is so desperate to hold on to his power that he's about to drag the country, the rest of us, through this month of hell that will not just include the impeachment of the president and this on going humiliation of the speaker, but also a potential government shutdown. i mean, he's prepared to go along with this agenda, to burn it all down. to destroy whatever institutions stand in his way, in order to hold on to this gavel, which is so hallow, which is so weak, which is so pathetic. he will be remembered as one of the weakest speakers we have

ever had. succeeded one of the strongest speakers we ever had. apparently he thinks that's worth it. >> charlie sykes, jon meacham and susan page, thank you all very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," north korean leader kim jong-un has arrived in russia and has met with president vladimir putin. what we can expect from their talks today. plus what putin is saying about u.s. politics. also ahead a live report from fulton county as district attorney fani willis now insists donald trump and his 18 co-defendants all be tried together as part of the a sprawling georgia election interference case. and the new york jets will officially be without their star quarterback for the rest of the season. what aaron rodger's achilles tendon tear could mean for the

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with voya, considering all your financial choices together can help you make smarter decisions. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. i do want to make it very clear, zach's our quarterback. we got a lot of faith in zach. we're really excited about his opportunity. but we're rolling with zach. and excited for this -- excited for him. like i said, this opportunity that he's going to get. i don't know why people are trying to put an obituary under our team name. aaron is an unbelievable peace to this whole thing and we love him, but i think there's 52 other guys in the locker room, plus the 16 practice squad guys

that believe we can do a hell of a lot of good things here. >> that is robert saleh doing his best to give zach wilson an endorsement as the team's new starting quarterback. he was the old starting quarterback after an mri yesterday confirmed aaron rodgers did sustain a season-ending tear to his left achilles tendon. rodgers, who was hurt while sacked on the jet's fourth snap of monday night season opener, his fourth snap as a jet, was placed on injure reserved and will need surgery to repair that achilles. coach saleh said he hopes the four-time nl mvp will remain with the team during his recovery. joining us now, the host of pablo tory finds out on meadow lark media, pablo tory. great to see you. >> great to be here. >> front page of the new york post has the time and date that the rodgers era began and ended there. 1817 to 1828, 11 minutes that

lasted. i'm a giants fan, so no love lost, particularly for the jets. but it's just gutting for that team, if that franchise, for those fans. >> willie, there's no comparable story to this. jet fans everywhere are used to pain, used to tragedy and used to cosmic farce. this is unlike anything else you have ever seen. they had a docu series on hbo aaron rodgers was hailed as a savior. messianic tones he runs out on the field carrying the american flag. this is the moment everything is different. it is also the moment right after in which everything is not only the same but worse. i just can't think of anything that's as painful but as familiar at the same time for a jet fan. >> yeah. and you look at their defense is really good. >> top five defense. >> their special teams were great. they had the walk-off touchdown from the rookie gibson. >> yep. >> and he was that piece.

complete the puzzle. they had legitimate shot this year. >> yes. as much as that all now feels like taunting to jet fans, they are the team that is most obviously a quarterback away and have everything there. now the question is what do you do when the guy that you paid all this money to, who is 39 years old, fully tears an acl. is it this season? is this all over now for us as an experiment? do we just, i don't know, fold as a franchise? i don't know. this is -- >> oh my god. >> that's horrible. >> bottom of the year, core of the earth stuff. you don't get lower than this at this point. >> come on. come on! i can't believe this. listen, i like the jets. i'm a falcons fan. maybe i understand pain better than most when it comes to nfl teams. but a couple of news flashes. they beat the buffalo bills

without aaron rodgers. they've got a great defense. they've got above average special team. they've got a really good running back with hall. and you know what i'll say the name, brock purdy. look at purdy, mr. irrelevant. >> right, san francisco. >> we always look and the new york yankees in baseball are the perfect example. you build super bowl champions and world series champions from the ground up. and you start with a great defense and great special teams. i'm just saying, throwing cold water on this funeral procession because the jets did beat josh allen and the bills on monday night after adversity. >> i just feel like robert saleh should hire joe scar brow to talk to the team at this point. i don't know if anybody has more

optimistic in a monologue of this story than you just now. the bad news about backup quarterback is zach wilson. the afore mention docu series proclaimed as not good enough which is why aaron rodgers stepped in. they've run that specific experiment last year. they did not make the playoffs. all of it feels like again the most jets thing imaginable. >> i mean, i could show you clips, jonathan lemire, of all of my heroes in broadcasting, starting with colin cowherd who said that jalen hurts was basically a loser. he was a horrible pick for the eagles. shannon sharp said the same thing, this guy will never get them to the super bowl. he'll never get them to the promised land. you know some athletes and maybe zach wilson is one of them, tell him he can't do it and he's even more determined than ever to do

it. again, i want to say, of all of those things i was saying this isn't hope for a better tomorrow. i'm talking about what happened on monday night with the whole world watching. they beat the bills. they beat josh allen. and they did it in a spectacular fashion. i wouldn't bury this jets team yet. >> well, i think on monday, though, josh allen beat josh allen. in addition to the jets defense was terrific. >> well, that's why josh allen did it last year. smoke 'em. >> the difference you're right, players who have been criticized and given up by the media rallied and found themselves. the difference with zach wilson is his whole team gave up him. so pablo, if they do seek an alternate -- another quarterback, run through some options as to who they could find and please right now knock down the tom brady rumors. i as a patriots fan could not handle that. >> i just saw tom brady going lfg on the sideline at the first

game. i believe his jersey is retired. i believe he is only now showing a little aipg toll the jets, not the whole thing. andrew luck is in a forest somewhere. his birthday was yesterday. go send him a book. go send him jon meacham's book, try to motivate him to come back. joe flacco, really, we're going to do joe flacco again. you might have to do joe flacco again. but it's slim pickings, man. carson wentz. who off of the discard pile is better than the guy you drafted in the top five in the nfl draft than zach wilson? i think you got to turn to a veteran just because they were carrying two quarterbacks. and now one of them is hurt. and now you actually need a body, a warm body, is the new standard for new york jet quarterback after going to one of the greatest of all time. >> yeah. the difference between zach wilson and those other guys joe was talking about, he already has had his shot. let's give him another chance.

the defense is great. it's really good. before we let you go, pablo, all anyone is talk about in baseball is the fight for last place in the a.l. east, right? >> oh, man. >> last night yankees take two from the red sox, tying the red sox. now yankees and red sox, tied for last place in the a.l. east. your thoughts. your analysis. >> i'm a yankee fan. there's no pride i take in this graphic or the potential of this graphic being slightly different at the very bottom. this is pathetic. look, jon, as a red sox guy, i think we can all agree that i am not into shaming enough to be told there is some value in this. i just think it's embarrassing. i want this to be all over. thanks. thanks. this just feels humiliating that i'm supposed to appreciate this on some level. let the orioles, the blue jays and the rays make me feel like i'm the one taking iwaska now,

not aaron rodgers. >> we both need a darkness retreat of our own to get away from this a.l. east standings. >> i'm going to first of all say something that's going to outrage red sox nation. >> oh, great. >> i think the failure of the new york yankees over the 21st century, i'm dead serious, proved that blue maybe on to something. we're building a farm system. we had a young guy explode. he's going to be a super star. we have a young player who is going to be a superstar for years to come. and you can see the red sox in a few years doing exactly what the orioless have done. so jonathan lemire, i i know this is not what you want to hear, but i want to go to the yankees and talk to our two yankees fans and say if you don't agree that the yankees' failure and their continued

failure year after year after year proves that in baseball, i'm dead serious, if you want to win, you win like the rays and orioles. it is money ball. you build a farm team. you build it from the ground up. if you think you can go out and buy superstars year after year and win world series, look at the yankees. it just doesn't happen that way. >> totally agree. long contracts to ageing superstars, not the way to do it. when we started this thing in the mid-'90s, it was jeter and all those i guys who came up through the farm system. as i said on this show through this terrible season, there is had help coming. the martian is hurt. he will be out until the middle of next year, but there are a lot of young guys in the system that maybe coming to help aaron judge and the boys. >> i guess, the solace is the mets spent more money than

anybody else in the history of baseball and they can't do it either. the fact that money doesn't buy happiness in baseball. i thought the pockets were deep enough to find trophies at the bottom. now i'm realizing the rays have it figured out, which is truly jarring as a yankee exceptionalist. >> let's hang in there. stay positive. >> by the way, one final thought. what about the orioles? they are going to win 105 game this is year. they have eight of the top 100 prospects in baseball right now. the orioles, if they don't trade them away, they are built for speed for the next five or six years. >> they look really good. orioles for the future. >> the biggest bummer is that the orioles are now a team i have to respect. >> and here we are.

great to see you. thank you so much. >> i think pablo should come back. he makes me want to watch the jets and sports now. >> he's great. he's sort of a roger ben bet of football and baseball. it could work. >> i don't know if he'd want to come back. >> he may not want to come back. as a parting gift, we're going to be giving pablo the john meacham collection. a lot to get to coming up on "morning jo." cities across the country are reporting major increases in crime. but our next guest says police can defeat it. former nypd commissioner bill bratton joins us. there's barnacle. we'll be back. there's barnacle we'll be back. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪

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a few minutes before the top of the hour. we have a follow-up on a discussion from yesterday's show that cities and states across the country reporting major increases in total crime. >> by the way, it surged after covid. it surged after 2020. then it went down. now we're seeing in washington, d.c., actually "the washington post" said they reported there was a sharp rise over the past year in washington, d.c. homicides and carjackings really rattling the capital of america. >> according to the police department data, violent crime is up 39% this year. homicides saw a 28% increase and sexual abuse up 6%. meanwhile, property crime is also seeing a major increase. total theft up 27%. while motor vehicle theft is up 110%. this is not just in washington,

d.c. new york city saw total crime rising 22% between 2021 and 2022 while los angeles saw an 11% increase. it's not just a big city problem. birmingham saw total crime rates increase% last year. >> jacksonville having a problem with high crime. the two cities with the most crime this year, monroe, louisiana, and. >> michigan and detroit, the cities with the fourth highest crime rate in the nation in 2021. joining us now is former police commissioner, now the executive chairman of tenao risk bill bratton. also cedrick alexander, former chief of police for dekalb county, georgia. and mike barnacle and former

u.s. senator claire can mccass kll is here with us as well. >> so mr. commissioner, thank you for being with us. you wrote an op-ed recently talking about how police can make a big difference in pushing back on these crime rates. how do they do it? >> first off, it's with our leadership. one of the problems is the american policing has been changing dramatically. the vast majority of american police chiefs in the 75 largest cities in the country are turned over in the last couple years. so we have a major change in leadership. the good news is that leadership has come up through those difficult times. they are better educated. the problems they are facing are the problems america is facing. we have a phenomenal amount of new types of crime. we also have a reduction in

willingness in the public to deal with disorder. as evidenced by the problems on around the country, as evidenced by so many of the behaviors being reported. so america is going to have to make up its mind. what does it want to do in terms of dealing with this problem. we dealt with it in the past. safest year in the history of new york city was 2018. that was only 5 years ago. fortunate ily, it's starting to trend down again. but the challenge is going to be to keep it going down. that's where the leadership comes in. >> as you mentioned, you don't have to go far to go to see everything is locked pup and you're asking somebody who worked at a register to become a police officer to stop people pr committing crimes.

what police officers, what tools to put a stop to some of this? >> many of the tools that we had when i was young have been taken away. new york city emphasizes civil summons for our public they get them and don't show up and pay the fine. we are no longer arrest for a lot of those offenses. >> why not? >> ask our city council. this is true throughout america. it was about redefining behavior down. we are excusing the way so much of the behavior that is left unaddressed becomes more criminal, more serious over time.

and that's what we're facing right now. we're not addressing the root causes of crime not being addressed. >> so cedrick frrks your point of view, where does the problem lie is how do we reverse this trend. we have seen it across the country. but it's smaller shops too. where does the problem start and what do we do about it? >> the commissioner is right. i certainly do agree. this is a leadership issue. but it's not just a leadership issue within the police department itself that is going through a generational transition, if you will. you have a lot of older chiefs that are going out. you have younger chiefs coming up. they don't have this report. they often times have once had because every two, four, eight years you have a change of leadership of elected officials.

who have a different philosophy of you. the challenge here is really much more broad than we have time on this show to talk about. but i think one of the important things any community at this very moment needs to consider that is seeing this trend, this uptick, if you will, in crime that is just so brazen is that there's going to have to be some real action taken where there's concrete consequences that will result in a lot of this violent activity that we have seen taking place. >> it's the top of the hour. you're watching "morning joe." we're going to be talking about the republican party bringing impeachment charges, or at least an impeachment inquiry against

president biden. the impact on the biden administration and on republican party and the election next year. he wrote an op-ed that has washington, d.c. talking this morning say joe biden has done a great job and it's time for him to step down and open up the process. we're going to have that discussion soon. we're talking now about crime waves in washington, d.c. and other parts of the country and what's happening and what's going on over the past couple years. i'm so glad that commissioner bratton brought up the fact crime was at an all-time low in 2018. the article said you have to go back to the 1950s to try to estimate what year may have been as safe in new york city as 2018. now they lock up toothpaste in stores.

this is just so shocking. small business owners having things thrown through the glass windows of people going in and stealing stuff. people walking in to drugstores just taking things out. nordstroms being chased out of major cities because there are all these smash and grabs. the story heard yesterday, small business owners leaving central philadelphia. and one grocery store closing up because the owner said people just walked to the store, would grab donuts, pour coffee and leave the store without paying. and it happened. they would go in, get milk or bread or whatever. and the pull is, it's like what cedrick said, there has to be consequences. the poll yesterday that struck me is there don't seem to be any

consequences. how did we fall so far so fast when people can rob stores and nobody seems to care? >> it's usual. public policy takes wide swings that usually miss. what happened was in rection to some police misconduct, awful police misconduct and some latent and apparents racism within the police forces around the country, people overreacted and said what we have to do is defang the police. that horrible phrase that was coined for awhile defund the police, which was a stupid, stupid phrase and never should have been uttered by anybody. what really had has to happen now is we have to come back to a situation where there are consequences for low-level crime. that you can't walk in and stal

and know nothing is going to happen. but we have to get back to realizing the problem here is trust. and this is a mixed message on crime rates. i know this segment this morning is emphasizing increases, but there's many major cities across america that are seeing a down tick in homicides. one of the reasons that's occurring in some of these cities is what the commission knows very well, some of them are still focused on building trust in these communities to get witnesses. the main reason homicide rates spike is because nobody wants to come forward and testify. nobody wants to be that guy or that woman who points the finger at somebody who committed a crime in their community. i that want to keep their head down and hope they are not a victim. that's why community policing and community prosecutions are so important. that's what we did in the '90s. we had a record homicide rate. we went to work putting people in neighborhoods so people got to know them. and began to trust them that they were not out to just hassle

their son on their way to work if he had the nerve to drive through a white neighborhood. so there's a lot of work that has don't done here. it's too complicated for one segment, but the crime stats aren't one monolithic issue. it depends on where you are in the country. i don't anybody to blame new york. new york still has a much lower crime rate than many southern states had in the country. and it's still a very safe place to be. and i have been here for a week and i feel safe walking around new york. >> you're walking on different streets than i am. >> i'm sure there's parts of new york that are not good. that's true in every center. but dangerouses just to paint with a broad brush. >> so let's not paint with a

broad brush. i have said clearly over the past several days in many southern cities, there's a higher crime rate than new york city. but i also know people walking around new york city and work there for 30 years say they don't feel safe. people in d.c., d.c. is getting much worse. i have been in and out of d.c. now for 35 years. d.c. feels like it did had in the early 1990s. it's out of control. i don't care what people say on their little progressive blogs. d.c. is out of control. they have a city council that is perfectly fine with that. and you look the at the numbers. crime up 22% in new york city. i want to circle back to what claire was talking about. obviously, there was reaction to the tragedy of the george floyd murder, but i want to be clear.

progressives think that getting people off the street when it's 10 degrees and putting them in shelters is somehow not progressive, the rest of america doesn't understand that. and also the big lie is that defunding the police is somehow going to help people of color. you'll remember back in 2020 after the george floyd murder,s you'll remember that you had progressives from places like park slope and brooklyn heights saying defund the police. you had people representing some of the districts where the truly disadvantaged live and say we need more cops in our schools. we need more cops on the street protecting our children walking school. we need a larger police presence because when you see a breakdown in cops, when you see a lot of

cops retiring or quitting like they have in philadelphia and other cities, it's people of color who are disproportionately impacted. it's people of color who are disproportionately killed. it's people of color who are disproportionately abused. and as we move forward with this discussion and debate, we have got to make that clear to progressives, who think defund ing the police as they are sitting at their starbucks that somehow that's going to help people of color. look at the stats over the past two or three years. it's done just the opposite. >> a lot of focus on violent crime, but what's fueling america is fear in this city, as i pointed out in the op-ed, is the disorder, the increasing disorder. the shoplifting, the pan

handling, prostitution returning lately to the streets of new york. it's what they see every day in the subways and on the streets that's creating the fear. certainly the violent crime generates concern, but it doesn't happen to most of us. what happens every day is the disorder. that's what we failed to address in the '70s and '80s. we began to address it in the '90s. he said the people have spoken. now they must be punished. in many respects, the crime situation and disorder situation we're experiencing now is that the people have spoken in many cities around the country and have put in district attorneys who refuse to do anything about the disorder that it's the creating so much of the fear. we're going to have to basically go back to a quote by robert kennedy that every society gets

the criminal system it deserves. right now, we have created the crises. can it be fixed, it can be, but it's going to take a the lot of work. >> during this very interesting discussion, i'd like to ask both you, commissioner, and cedrick, i'd like to follow up. about two words that haven't been mentioned a lot here today. one is enforcement. the other is license. enforcement meaning that if you're in a two-man cruiser and go to a crime scene and get a call and whether it's madison avenue or it's up in the bronx, the first thing you look for as a patrol officer getting out of that car is who is going to be there with a cell phone camera. who is going to be recording my activities. who is going to be recording whether i'm going to handcuff this person.

the license aspect occurs on the subway. you see the subways filled with people who know instinctively they now have a license to hassle you, to take your wallet, to try to scare you. they have a license to do it because they will not be arrested. what do we do about those two things? >> it's political in terms of police have effectively not been allowed to be the police. many of the tools they used in the past, they no longer have. they dent have the power. so this is ultimately going to be as the same ways it was created, political resolution, allowing district attorneys, allowing the courts to deal not

only with the the serious crime, but the serious crime begins with the tolerance of it. it the creates chaos. why do we allow that to happen? politics basically. the resolution is going to be a political resolution. police can do it, but they need the tools. it's like asking to build a house without a ham tore pound nails. >> many things have changed in our society and certainly around policing. i think we're going to have to come to terms with the the fact that certain things are not beginning to change. but policing is going to have to change in this country. a lot of the issues we're talking about as it relates to police has a historic number of events that we all can point to

that has changed the trex of policing either for the good or for the worse. but i think it's important to note here, when you talk about enforcement, when you consider the fact what police officers have to be confronted with today, the technology that's out there, the cell phone cameras, they are not going to change. but let's also remember police officers also are equipped with body worn cameras themselves. but i think there's an important piece in all of this. we're in a very changing environment we're going to have to make those adjustments. with less people interested in being police officers, so how we police going forward is going to have to be different. i want to address one thing joe brought up earlier about in communities where you have progressives that are on the left, who may say let's ban policing.

there's no need for policing. if you look at those often times very white communities, and i just spent a year in minneapolis as commissioner offen community safety. minneapolis is a good example of a community which you have one side of town saying we don't need police, but if you left over north in minneapolis, if you live in those communities that are challenged by much of the social issues we all are aware of, they will have a very different story. people of color, black people more specifically, they want police. but here's the caveat. they want good police. they want police that are going to be constitutional in their actions, legal in what they do and respectful to the communities. but people want policing. and people deserve good policing, but we're going to have to consider the fact how we can police in the future is going to be very different than in the past. that's another conversation for

another day. i hope we have a chance to talk about, but this is a very complex issue, even when it comes to homicides because we know it goes up, it comes down, it goes up, it comes down. and sometimes there's a great deal of variables that are involved as what happened from one city to the next. >> so many great points. thank you so much. i greatly appreciate it. it's something that the commissioner has said, we need more police, we need good police, but something cedrick said that i heard commissioner bratton say, senator mccaskill said, these police officers, we need more police officers. they need to be in the communities.

they need to be connected with the communities. they have to build the trust. that's how claire did it. that's the key. >> so former new york city police commissioner bill bratton, cedrick, thank you very much. we will come become to this conversation. we still have a lot more to get to. speaker kevin mccarthy said yesterday he is directing the house oversight ways and means committees to open an inquiry into president biden centered on his family business dealings. mccarthy called the inquiry logical next step as the republican-led house seeks bank records and other documents from both biden and his son hunter. the speaker's decision to single handedly launch the inquiry is a stark reversal from his previous

comments. less than two weeks ago, he told breitbart he would not launch an impeachment inquiry without a full in the house. when he criticized then speaker nancy pelosi for launching an impeachment inquiry into then president trump without a full house vote. take a look. >> our job is to legislate. not to continue to investigate something in the back when you cannot find any reason to um peach this president. >> i'm directing our house committee to open a formal impeachment inquiry into president biden. >> she cannot change the laws of this congress. she can cannot unilaterally decide. >> i did not make this decision lightly. >> oh, my god. i'm sorry. >> it's parody. >> the inquiry was authorized by the then democratic-led house. claire mccaskill, your reaction

to whoever kevin mccarthy is this morning? >> well, since we have been talking about crime, i decided i would rather spend a month in solitarity confinement than be kevin mccarthy. >> why? >> here's what happened. when he got the speakership, the fringe gave him a hand grenade and said you have to hold it. you can't get rid it. we can decide when to pull the pun. they are fixing to pull the pin. so he looks weak. he looks desperate. he's not accomplishing anything because without a vote, then this idea that somehow subpoenas are more meaningful is just stupid. it's not true. they are not more meaningful if there's no authorization by the house of representatives. so on all the white house has to do is say we're going to go by the trump office of legal council and doj that said we don't have to honor subpoenas if it's not been authorized by the

house of representatives. so it's a stupid exercise. i can't decide who looked weaker in the last 24 hours. kevin mccarthy or putin. they both look pretty weak. >> that and the fact that he's been publicly scolded now on the floor of the house by members of the freedom caucus saying, watch out. if you dent do what we say, it's your job. democrats are rallying around president biden in the wake of that impeachment inkwir ri announcement the calling it a distraction. >> i think it's aquiry announcement the calling it a distraction. >> i think it's absurd. >> maga republicans have launched an illegitimate impeachment inquiry that's a kangaroo court, fishing expedition, and conspiracy theater rolled into one. >> kevin mccarthy has lost control of the gavel. maga extremists are running the

house. >> can i ask you about the news that speaker mccarthy launched an people -- >> really? oh, my gosh. it's devastating. don't do it. please don't do it. oh, no. >> senator fetterman, an odd reaction. mike barnacle, a few things to point to. this is a lot about hunter biden. a lot of smoke, but no fire. that's what they say they are looking for around president biden. they are talking about activity in 2015 or 2016 allegedly while vice president of the united states. and a lot of this started in 2018 when donald trump was president. so the the frustration could be directed back to the trump administration for those couple years where they didn't come up with anything on joe biden either. what's your analysis of what we have seen and the use now of

impeachment as a political tool? >> i have no analysis. this is sad. this is just a sad thing. there's a lot of what aboutism going on. but this is particularly sad given the fact it's one of the two major parties. this is the leader in the house of one of the two major political parties. and he's so pathetic, he shows up and looks like a pathetic individual with a gun to his head. his political career is wrapped up in this bogus attempt to file impeachment proceedings against the president of the united states. i'm old enough to remember when people ran for public office. most people who ran for public office with the idea of heling people. and now we have one political party with the bulk of the

people in the party seem to be running for office in order to hurt people. not help people. and i'm not talking just about president biden. i'm talking about your average citizen. they are more interested in finding impeachment than making sure senior citizens get their social security checks on time. that health care benefits are accrued to people in need of health care. things like that. things that people live on each and every day. they are not interested in that. >> the white house reaction is unphased. they saw this coming. no white house wants to go through an impeachment inkwir ri. they can end up in unexpected directions. those i talked to yesterday said senior staff resign to it, but it could be a political opportunity in some ways. republicans overreach to what happened in the 1990s. even donald trump saw his numbers go up a little bit.

they have a team that are ready for this. they do think this is mccarthy casting about for some sort of purpose trying to stay in power and appease trump and those on the right. they think it could backfire among those independent voters come next year. both the presidential and the congressional races. >> we have seen it time and again. i'm not exactly sure why. and impeachment usually helped the president being impeached politically. >> the dynamics of this one especially. let's bring in associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. >> you have official washington talking, the white house talking. your latest opinion piece also has my wife talking. i don't know.

>> the piece is entitled "president biden should not run again in 202." you wrote, biden wrote his political testament in his inaugural address. whendays are through, our children and our children's children will say of us, they gave their best, they did their duty, they healed a broken land. mr. president, maybe this is that moment when duty has been served. biden would carry two big liabilities into a 2024 campaign. he would be 82 when he began a second term. according to a recent associated press poll, 77% of the public think he is too old to be effective for four more years. because of their concerns, voters would focus on his presumptive running mate kamala harris. she's less popular than biden with a 39.5% approval rating.

according to polling website 538, harris has many qualities, but the simple fact is that she's failed to gain traction in the country or even within her own party. i hope biden has this conversation with himself about whether to run and that he levels with the country about it. it would focus the 2024 campaign, who is the best person to stop trump. that's the question when biden decided to run 2019 and it's still the test of a contractic nominee today. so what are you really saying here? if you look at biden's track record and the fact that he has beaten trump, i don't know why you would question his ability to beat him again. there are other president who is are later in years, including the republican presumptive nominee.

is this really about kamala harris? >> mika, you summarized my argument just right. i admire many things that president biden has done on domestic and foreign policy. i do think that legacy and the center of his legacy is the fact that he stopped trump. he stopped in the 2020. he stopped trump supporters in the midterm elections. he's mobilized the justice department that is now bringing trump to accountability. i worry that all those achievements are at risk. and it's seen through this summer, i haven't gone anywhere in the country. i haven't talked to any people where this issue of whether president biden should run again hasn't been a center piece of conversation. it doesn't get into the newspapers. it doesn't get much on tv except

fox news. and i thought it was time to raise that question. again, the heart of it is whether joe biden is the best person to carry this legacy forward. he may decide that he's the only person who can defeat donald trump. he sees that as his commission. it's why he ran in the first place. he made us think he's the guy and that's his decision. but i felt it was time to have a more public discussion about this. what a journalist like me should do is take issues like that that people talk about in private and bring them forward so we can have a better discussion.

>> i want to tap into your expertise though. you write a column that's extremely in a way it'ses a very, very strong message for you, david ignatius, to write this column. you have spent much of your career spending time writing about or writing with the greatest strategic thinkers of our time. on world affairs, on foreign policy, and when you look at what joe biden with done with nato and the war in ukraine and in terms of galvanizing on a track to lead, who would be an alternative right now who could do that on day one? >> i can't name you that person. the thing about the democratic process is it yields answers to

questions like that through this. i still believe that in open discussion. the nominating campaigns produce clarity. produce leaders. i can't agree more that biden has been a strong leader in foreign policy and domestic policy. he's passed some of the most significant domestic social legislation in decades. in foreign policy, one of the things i admire the most is he's gathered a team of very solid people with who think strategically. he's the leader of that team, of the team members themselves are strong. i have no doubt this team of strategic people in the democratic party were driving foreign policy forward in a good way will continue, no matter who democrats choose. so on that score, i think it

comes down to what we're talking about earlier. is joe biden the person who can stop donald trump or somebody like trump who gets the republican nomination, that's what -- he's got to look in the mirror, search his soul and make that decision. i wanted to raise that question. i'd like him to think that through carefully because i have my concerns. >> and just to answer david's question, every political discussion, it talks a lot about trump. when it comes to joe biden, people say, man, he's too old to run, isn't he? he's not really going to run. when i say every discussion, i don't mean 99% of the discussion. every discussion. i asked reverend al. he's hearing it as well. so we often will complain about republicans who will say one thing about donald trump off the

air and another on air. let me just say, democrats off the air will say joe biden is too old. why is he running. on the air, they won't say that, so i commend david for at least raising the question. my question is who can do a better job than joe biden. and who can beat donald trump. i don't see a lot of democrats out there or any democrats out there right now that could do that. >> that is -- both of those points are exactly right. every conversation about politics, whether you're with democrats or republicans, it's about donald trump and it's about joe biden does look old. he's about to be 81 this fall. that is a real conversation that's happening. when they see him sometimes at public events, they might cringe and want to look away and not watch that.

and the important question you're asking, which is, okay, if not him, who? where a lot of people land, democrats, is he the goi to beat donald trump? he did once. he already beat him a couple years ago. so of all the people they are looking at on this fantasy menu of candidates on the democratic side, they say, yeah, he might be a little old, but i'm going to vote for him because i don't want the guy to try to lead a coup against the united states government to be president again. >> listen, i think that the bottom line is we have a lot of strong leaders in this country that are older than joe biden. bernie sanders is older than joe biden. rupert murdoch is older than joe biden. so the issue is who does joe biden think can beat trump? he's 100% convinced it's him. he's 100% convinced he's the

best one. if you can't move him, he's going to be our nominee. i don't have the confidence that david ignatius has in the nominating process. because the nominating process is what brought us donald trump and is going to bring us donald trump again. it's flawed. it's not a perfect process. but i want to talk to you about kamala harris. i have started a little exercise. what is it specifically that you don't like? and nobody has an answer. so i'd love you to spend some time on the kamala harris issue. i'm looking forward to your column on that. why is america down on her to the extent they are? because she's done nothing to deserve this. i remember us laughing sometimes at joe biden when he was vice

president in the cloak room of the senate. i wasn't laughing, sorry, mr. president, but people were making fun of him. al gore, same thing. vice presidents have a tough job. but why is america so convinced. this is a woman of great accomplishment. she's done things in a very competitive environment in the democratic party that many politicians could never accomplish. so why is this a problem instead of an asset? ien don't get it. >> so i think it is a riddle. it's one that other people should write more about. she's a person of enormous talent. it's the same question now as it was during the primaries in 2020. i expected her to be a stronger

candidate. why she didn't get traction with the public, with democratic voters, i don't know. but i watched that happen. and i feel like i'm watching that happen now. i'd love for her to get that feel that politicians have with the public to have traction. say i'm comfort wbl that. and that's the challenge that she's faced. people don't feel she's accomplished that. maybe it's still possible, but i think it's not been an easy job for her. i have so many questions to ask here. but i think that's the core that poll numbers reenforce this, but it's as much talking to

democrats. i think this is a conversation that should have around every dinner table among people who follow politics closely. it doesn't surface all that often in our public conversations. and it should. making decisions about you are political leadership is something we as a country should do. it shouldn't be private and not talked about. so i think you're right. we ought to ask can she become a better, stronger leader. how do we look at her differently. those are all good questions to ask. >> so is your column -- does it have a dual message? questioning whether joe biden should replace his running mate? and if not joe biden, if if you think he should consider not running again, who is the alternative? >> so i'm just not prepared to say. i wish i knew who the alternative is. what i said is this combination

of joe biden at the top of the ticket and the polls show people feel uneasy about somebody who is 82 serving another four-year term. that and people's uneasiness is reflected in the polls about the vice president succeeding him, which you have to think about carefully. somebody who is going to be in that position, that combination seems to be potentially dangerous for the democrats in fending off what would be a disaster, a revenge presidency by donald trump. and i felt it was important to have more of a discussion about that. i think the point that everybody has made, in the end, this is going to be joe biden's decision. if he decides i am the person, and i'm going to do it, then it's going to happen. because does he decide he wants to stick with kamala harris,

probably. he's made that pretty clear in the past. but i think raising the question now, time is running out. in another month, it's going to be too late to have this conversation. so i thought before it was locked in stone, it was worth at least raising. >> i can't think of ever a moment i disagreed with "the washington post" david ignatius as i do right now. david, thank you for being on. david ignatius, who has a father who is feisty and as as it comes at 102. >> thank you for mentioning him. he's watching this it morning. >> good on you. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," much more on house speaker kevin mccarthy's decision to launch an piemt inquiry into president biden. we're going to go to live to the white house for reaction. plus an nbc news exclusive. for the first time since donald

trump's surrender, the fulton county sheriff shows off the area where the former president entered jail and had his mug shot taken. blayne alexander joins us live with that story, next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. l be right . m ♪ somewhere, anywhere... ♪ ♪ i just want to lie motionless in a chair! ♪ booking.com, booking.yeah ♪ ♪

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fulton county georgia district attorney is doubling down on her approach to have all co-defendants in the rico case appear in court together. she listed the reasoning for wants a group trial inskud cloouding security issues and unnecessary strain on judicial resources if the cases separated into a thunderstorm of trials. she stressed a connected rico charge the cases would share the same evidence and witnesses. let's bundle them together, she argues. this comes after a hearing last week where the fulton county judge was skeptical of the

possibility of keeping so many witnesses together and so many defendants together in one trial. he said he would have a speedy trial for two defendant bis tomorrow that should led light on the like lu hood of keeping all those cases together let's bring in correspondent blain a alex ander joining us live from atlanta this morning. she spoke with the fulton county sheriff about the way former president trump was booked and got an exclusive look at the jail where the mug shot was taken. good morning. >> reporter: good morning to you. that's right. up until this point all we had seen from inside the jail was the mug shot. that was the only thing that came out. we saw the motorcade go in and we saw him leave. we didn't know much about what happened. yesterday i went to the fulton county jail and sat down with the sheriff there. he walked me inside the intake area. he showed me the door where the former president walked in, the place where he had had his mug shot take. what's interesting about this is he told me he only spent eight

minutes inside the building. the process was so expedited that they brought his paperwork out to his car for him to look over and sign afterward and be on his way. here's a little bit of our tour inside the intake area. and i also asked about his decision to have a mug shot taken. that's something that came down to him. he called it a difficult decision. take a look. >> the motorcade came in and around. he came in to take the mug shot over in that area. then he was given instructions to go back for his fingerprint. then he came out. eight minutes. >> in and out. the entirety of time he was in here from that door and mainly in this area. >> absolutely. so what was this area like on the day he was in here?

>> maybe five or six people, plus secret service. no inmates. so ultimately, it was as clean as we could make it. >> ultimately, did that decision to take a mug shot, did that come down to you? >> it did. and it is one that i don't regret. it is one that as an elected official, as the sheriff of the county, i have an obligation to our community. and that community in which we processed 35 to 40,000 people a year. >> is that a decision? >> it was. i lamented over that for several days. it was the right thing to do. in retrospect, i want to make sure our legal teams go back and take a look at even the publication of the use of the mug shot as an opportunity to make money, and if so, how much does the county get from it?

>> you mean by the trump campaign? >> you feel the county could be entitled to some of that money. >> reporter: so you heard some of our discussion right there. the other thing he said happened after that mug shot was taken is he got a murm of threats after the mug shot was taken. i did ask about something else that really has been getting a lot of attention in recent days. that's the number of indeaths we have seen at the jail this year. ten inmates have died this year. it's something that a former president trump even posted about on social media. and so i asked him really, what is the cause of that? what are they doing to look at that issue? he said it's a problem he's inherited. he's been sounding the alarm since he took office they need more resources for a new jail. he says they are doing a few things to alleviate the overcrowding and shipping inmates to other jails in the region and putting on some monitoring bands to monitor heart rates, but a silver lining

of the increased focus on the jail with the former president being there is that more people are paying attention to the jail and we skould see that expedited. >> it's a notorious jail. blayne alexander, thank you for that interview. we appreciate it. we're going to change things up a little bit with little bit with a conversation on the topic of happiness. >> when is a good time? you are not happy with a family friend, david ignatius. >> there was a lot more going on with that column. that's all i am going to say. >> i don't know what that means. >> on a happier note, our next guest is an expert on happiness and says americans have been struggling to see the joy in life for years. over the past decade the number of americans that said they are not too happy rose from 10% to

24%. what is the secret to being happy and staying that way? that is that the subject of a new book entitled "build the life you want: the art and science of getting happier." >> and oprah joins us -- >> no, arthur joins us now. >> yeah, and we have talked about this. tell me why the time is now for this book? i am thinking especially when it comes to our young people and technology. >> yeah, for sure. there's a lot that goes into it. the truth is happiness has been in a slow decline in the united states since the early 1990s, and then when technology took over, and then the coronavirus epidemic, and people became lonely, and the polarization,

and all of these things mean we are at logger heads and people can't agree on anything except they want to be happier. oprah and i wrote the book for the handbook for everybody who wants to be happier. this book is trying to start a movement, quite frankly. >> how do you do it? what do you -- >> yeah, what is the key? >> what is the research on the key to happiness? >> we need to manage ourselves and that requires a whole lot of knowledge. i teach here at the harvard business school, and my students are competent that managing businesses and money and everybody watching us are competent in what they do. they are strivers and working hard in their lives, and a lot of people say i can manage money and my household but i can't manage my feelings.

this is kind of your owners manual for emotions based on the science of emotions we put in very ordinary terms. once you understand the nature of how your brain works and processes so such stimuli that is going on around us, you can have a tremendous amount of power. this is the best science of ordinary people. if oprah and i do our jobs, we could have a much better 2023 and 2024. >> you write about check whether you are getting your happiness nourishment. how do you define what happiness nourishment? >> the main mistake is people are chasing feelings. stop chasing feelings. these are like chasing ghosts. you can't get there. happiness is a combination of

three real things, the macro nutrients are enjoyment, satisfaction and purpose. we talk in the book about how you can maximize each one of these things, and not chasing pleasure, but looking at enjoyment with people and memory, and looking at satisfaction, and the sense of meaning in your life. the coherence in your life. why things happen in your life. all of these things have been studied and we can use these tools and share them with other people. people read this -- the reason we wrote this is because we want to share our ideas because oprah and i want to be happier, too. >> yeah, you have a self test. it's called the positive and negative affect schedule, and some of us took it before the show. >> oh, good. >> the results put us in one of

four categories. joe and claire are called cheerleaders, above average positives, and below average negatives. lemire and i are mad scientists, above average for positives and negatives, and barnicle, you're just -- well, we knew this, you are just average, it seems, right in the middle between being a cheerleader and a judge. arthur, what do these mean, honestly? >> we put this famous test on the book so people can take it. the population is broken up into four groups. you need to understand your personality with emotion before you can manage yourself. the four groups are based on the intensity of positive and negative emotions you experience in your life. a quarter of the population is very high in positives and negatives, and mika, that's you

and me, we are mad scientists. that's not a bad thing. everybody -- everybody has to be in one of the categories, and everybody has their skills and gifts and we'll talk about in that a second. and then you have people intensely positive and not intensely negative, and that's joe and claire. beware, cheerleaders have deficits, and they don't like bad news, and if two cheerleaders meet and recognize each other, they won't recognize a threat because they will spend all the money and go bankrupt. be aware if you marry a cheerleader. and then last but not least, barnicle, he's a judge, man, he has stable affect, and not going nuts. these are the people you need around if you need a surgeon,

you don't need somebody who cuts you and says, oh, my god, but, no, you need somebody that can say, i can do this. you need strengths to find your partner and yourself, who can compliment you, not the same kind of person, and then you start the analysis, the analysis of you. >> arthur, we have been talking about depression, and society and suicidal idealations with children. we talk about social media and politics and the pandemic and the shutdown and all this other stuff. i never had a chance to say this on the show, and you open up a wonderful opportunity to ask this question, and i often think we are dancing around what i can, even as a backslidden baptist, a guy that has fallen hard from grace, and you put all those out there, the importance

of faith for me, for the people i grew up with in the first baptist church in pensacola, we were not perfect and made a lot of mistakes, but i can tell with my friends, there's this foundation. if they lose a job or if they get a job if they are the ceo or out of work, we are all just kind of -- we're, okay, how are you doing? what can i do to help? with faith, and i say this as not -- not preaching, but i say it just socially, our pews are emptying out. we used to have faith and a code we lived by, and now we have a phone, and this is the information that gives our children dopamine hits every day, and that's -- that's when they rise and fall. i am wondering in any of your

studying about happiness, or i would say joy, where does faith fit into that, or more importantly, the absence of faith, the belief that the only thing that exists is what comes across your phone? >> you are on to something. as a backslid baptist, we will take you into the catholic church anytime, you know, and you can be my guest and we need you. the key to think about is this, if you want to build the life you want, you have to build it on four solid pillars. these are the investment pillars in your happiness 401(k) plan. you can block out most other things and focus on four things, your faith, your family, your friendship and work that serves other people. when i say faith, joe, i don't mean baptist or catholic faith or a religious faith, but i mean a focus on the bigger things than you. we call that transcendents.

family life. 1 in 6 americans are not talking to a family member today because of politics, and that's insanity. >> that's insane. >> friendship. a lot of people are surrounded by people, and you have to ask yourself, are these real friends or deal friends, and real and deal are not the same and we know the difference between them. last but not least, we need to offer up our work for other people. all of these pillared, faith, family, work, this is the expression of love. we have a deficit of love and that's what we need to get back to.

>> the book is called "build the life you want: the art and science of getting happier." thank you for joining us. thank you for the test, i think. >> you are a mad scientists. >> yes. you are a cheerleader? >> yeah. and then house speaker kevin mccarthy orders an impeachment inquiry into president biden. we will have a report from capitol hill about what happens next. we will speak with congressman, jared moscow witnesses, and pushing back on the inquiry, and live reaction from the biden white house. our third hour starts now. you have found anything illegal while he was actually in office. >> we found a lot that is certainly unethical. we found a lot that should be illegal. >> there's no evidence that joe

biden did anything illegally. >> if you look at the laptop and emails between the president's son and his associates, they went to great lengths to hide joe biden's involvement. >> hold on, congressman, did you just say the informant is now missing? >> well, we're hopeful that we can find the informent. >> make it easy for us. what was the crime? >> the crime is trading policy for money. >> which policy? >> well, we are going to get into that. >> do you believe this is now officially the joe biden bribery allegation? do you believe that you will be able to prove that? jim comer? >> i sure hope so. i do believe that there's a lot of smoke and where there is smoke there's fire. >> i sure hope so.

i sure hope so. >> oversight committee chairman, james comer -- >> that was incredible. >> can we have the "green acres" behind that, and arnold the pig -- >> i actually remember "green acres," and i remember watching it. >> i love that moment where one of the host willie, goes, wait, wait, are you telling me -- are you telling me that the informant is missing? well, we sure hope we can find him. you know why, because he's an international fugitive. you want to know why he's an international fugitive? because he's an arms dealer and an agent of the communist chinese party and has been

accused of selling illegal -- this is a tic tac toe. you have an illegal arms dealer, an agent of the communist party, and -- >> people are just waking up. >> yes, and good morning, washington, d.c. and then you have x marks the square. you have a guy, willie, that was illegally smuggling iranian oil to the communist chinese party. that is who james comer is running with, all to be able to say, well, i don't know, i sure hope so. >> awful lot of smoke, he says, awful lot of smoke, and that might probably mean that there's fire. they are going through with this joe.

we will get into the details of it. at least an impeachment inquiry, speaker mccarthy announced yesterday without a vote, and congressman matt gaetz, listen to the way he talks to speaker mccarthy. it's beyond disrespect, and it's we own you and made you speaker, so if you don't do what we say right now, you are out of a job. it's a bizarre dynamic here. still, no evidence presented, no definitive evidence that joe biden had anything to do -- this is all about hunter biden. they have had five years to show this since the investigation started. let's see it. >> the thing is, the thing is, again, not to keep going back to pop culture, but wilford, at the end of absence of malice, show me your evidence, counselor.

we will get some subpoenas, and we can go upstairs and get some subpoenas and bring them down, but bring me your case. i forget the guy's name at the end, he couldn't make the case against paul newman, and paul newman could not look any better leaning up against the wall in the absence of malice. they couldn't make the case, and they can't make the case now. i can make a case, though, for kevin mccarthy. that case is, kevin, you need to tell people to go to hell. if somebody ever said to me -- >> immediate total compliance or we will remove you. >> let me ask you, mika, what if somebody ever said to me in any situation, at the gates of hell if satan said to me, immediate

total compliance or we will remove you, and i would say f-a and f-o, and it's not too early, because it's almost noon in london and we have a lot of people watching in noon, london. this means i am an old man and shouldn't talk this way, but i will just talk this way, willie. what kind of man would allow somebody to talk to him publicly and bow down to it? >> especially -- >> i don't teach -- forget about manhood, even though this is a question of manhood and masculinity, but my daughter would never -- never in a billion years. she's the toughest of the lot, and she would never in a billion years allow somebody to talk to her that way. and i am sure your daughter --

we wouldn't allow our children to act that way. who is kevin mccarthy? why does he allow anybody to talk to him that way? it's just -- it's astounding that he is that weak and timid and he's speaker of the house. >> that's the thing. he's not a back bencher, he's the guy in theory running that caucus, and we will play a clip the way matt gaetz talked to him, you are sit, stay, rollover, and here he is doing it. it's an extraordinary moment in our politics. this is all, so far, about hunter biden. if he committed crimes, he ought to be prosecuted, and if he goes to jail, so be it, but there is still no line drawn to joe biden. everything you hear is vague about a biden crime family, and

they are not specific about it because they don't have it. >> jonathan lemire, we even had the supreme court justice's wife talking about the biden crime family. nobody has any evidence at all. none at all. you have text messages. i would love to know what the text messages mean, and i would love to get people under oath and have them talking. that's what investigations are for. so investigate. that's what criminal proceedings are for, and let those proceedings go forward and if there are any crimes, let the chips fall where they may. again, i keep going back to the "wall street journal" editorial page. no fan. no fan of joe biden. that's for sure. they attack him every day, but they even said of comer, all you have is smoke. you have nothing else.

and yet they keep chugging along. i don't know. maybe they will hire arnold the pig as than impeachment counsel. he couldn't do any worst than james comer. >> and the word used yesterday was allegations, and no evidence presented that president biden had anything to do with hunter biden's business dealings, and many witnesses even testified that hunter biden and president biden did not discuss business. the republicans have not been able to put this case together yet. and it's mccarthy boeing down to the forces of the right who they say gave him his speakership, and donald trump every day pressuring him about this, and creating the what aboutisms, and the white house is not excited

about this. no white house welcomes an impeachment inquiry, and they are time consuming, but they are prepared and have spent a year getting ready for this, and they feel like the politics of this are on their side, and polls show people don't believe there's a there there. also, it could endanger republicans in the house, and particularly those that won in biden districts and those will have to make an uncomfortable decision. mccarthy flip flopped and didn't take the vote in the house, and he didn't want to expose the republicans in the vote and he knew he didn't have the numbers he needed. >> we talk on the show a bit the issues that will impact independent and swing voters. we are not just, like, throwing

things against the wall. it happened. it happened in '22. it happened in '20, and it's being super sized now for a super value mean in 2024. i was talking to a group of people yesterday from the suburbs of philly. life-long republicans. no more would want to vote for joe biden, and they will probably just stay home. life-long republicans. you know what they were talking about? how local officials around them their entire lives -- their entire lives, and by the way, if you are sitting at home in kansas city right now, you know, go chiefs, and you are sitting there going, what is he talking about? come on.

these are just east coast elitists. well, no, no -- i'm just talking to people in the suburbs. suburbs of atlanta, and suburbs of philly and detroit. willie, they are saying that they have had republican elected officials all around in the suburbs of philly. their whole life. he said they are gutted. you can't find them anymore. you can't find them in so many places around philadelphia because donald trump and this toxic brand of trumpism and republicanism is gutting. the republican party in the suburbs of philly and atlanta and all these other suburban areas that have always been the foundation of republican majorities, the foundation of republican victories and locals and the foundation of the republican party in presidential races, and things like this,

impeachment inquiry, just like six-week abortion bans, just like people trying to claim that people that kill police officers on january 6th are responsible for the deaths, that's gutting the republican party. we are not sitting here going, hey, let's get progressives, like pass their progressive vote -- we are not saying that. we are saying republicans, save yourself if you can. they seem monumentally incapable of doing it, willie. this is just one step forward. this is not going to hurt joe biden, but it will help democrats politically. >> in a parallel universe, if you were speaker mccarthy, you would smack them down and say let's win back the senate and

presidency, and yet kevin mccarthy goes along for the ride. this is what he said yesterday, directing an inquiry into president biden, centered, he says, on biden's family business dealings. >> these are allegations of abuse of power, obstruction, and corruption. they warrant further investigation by the house of representatives. that's why today i am directing our house committee to open a formal impeachment inquiry into president joe biden. it appears the president's family has been offered special treatment by biden's own administration. treatment that not otherwise would have received if they were not related to the president. i do not make this decision lightly. regardless of your party or who you voted i don't even know

where to begin. i know jared and -- i talk to him, and, you know, jared worked for his father-in-law. >> and ivanka worked for her father. >> and ivanka worked for her father. jared got billions of dollars directly related to the work he did for his father-in-law in an official capacity -- >> from? >> from the saudis and from others. ivanka, while donald was meeting with president xi got all of these trademark waivers in china so she could sell her goods, and they were fast tracked in china after trump was elected, and by the way, you know, we don't talk about it much on this show. this happens in politics.

not as obviously as it did with donald trump and his family, and certainly not when you are talking about the billions of dollars, and kevin mccarthy saying we're doing this because the administration may have helped their own family. does he think everybody is stupid as hell and don't realize that we're talking about billions of dollars going into the trump family based on business dealings while donald trump was president, that they cashed in on right after the presidency? >> if you want to have a good read today, google kushner saudi wealth fund. and the alleged biden crime family, they couldn't find a fraction of, let's say, the

former president stealing nuclear secrets and leading an attempted coup against the united states government, and we did not see outrage from the republicans on that, but here we are. let's bring in washington bureau chief, susan page, and charlie sykes. you have been listening along here through green acres, paul newman and -- >> there was no operation pedi coat -- >> oh, wow. >> we are at a point where politics is programming. that's what this is. they needed a new season of something so they dropped it.

the hope, i think, is there is so much confusion, and it's what about this and what about that? it clouds everybody's sense the capacity -- they are hoping the voters' capacity to assign weight to different issues. i go back to the question, are we up to this? are we up to self government, an era in which the leadership class of one of the two major parties has decided to be wholly captive to, at best, a 35% group in the country? the delta here is, you know, for what it is worth, speaking of mccarthy, and 34% is the number of folks who still approved of joe mccarthy after he was

censured in 1954-55. what is so interesting about this moment is there's another 14 or 15% of the country that for various reasons go along with this trumpist base. if enough of those folks, this is what you are talking about, if enough of those people can say, you know what, actually the country and the constitution is more important than winning the afternoon, then perhaps we're okay. but i do believe it's that fundamental. i don't mean to be overly grand or alarmist, and kevin mccarthy is the guy that accidentally told the truth about benghazi, and he said we are just trying to create problems for hillary. jefferson and hamilton hated each other, i understand that, and i am not being naive, but

they have now gone to the most serious constitutional remedies as temporary weapons of war. >> jonathan, we should point out, james comer did the same thing in this case, out loud, look at biden's poll numbers. >> yeah, there are a number of republicans that showed their cards and said this is a political play. speaker mccarthy, we need he seems to be owned by the far right of his party, and he's somebody donald trump referred to as my kevin for years, and there was no pushback on that. can you compare this to an impeachment push, this is supposed to be so grave and rare and serious, but a party held and pushed back against the fridges and saying we are not going to do this. >> the politics of impeachment in the major cases, you can always find, you know, a

precedent for what you are looking for. the radical republicans tried to impeachment johnson in december of 1865, but the fact that that's the precedent, reconstruction, a civil war is deeply disturbing. i think that, sure, there could be a backlash. it could be our analogies to the 1990s are pointless at this juncture. i think one of the things we have to be careful about, or -- i will speak for myself, what i feel i have to be careful about in talking about this is i think one of the problems at this hour is folks like us totally and understandably still speak as if there's a conventional reality, as if gravity works, as if the stars are somehow still in

alignment, and they are really not. right? donald trump was president of the united states. he tried to overthrow the government of the united states. we fall back, understandably, on, well, did biden have a good week or bad week? that's really not the question anymore. the question is are you for the constitution or against it? i don't think this week will make that conversation any saner. coming up, one of our next guest is not ruling out a third party run for president. we will talk to andrew yang who ran for the white house as a democrat in 2020. that's just ahead on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu.

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i want to make it clear. zach is our quarterback.

we are rolling for him. i don't know why people are trying to put an obituary under our team name. you know, aaron is an unbelievable piece to this thing and we love him, but i think there's 52 other guys in the locker room and the squad guys where we believe we can do a lot of good things here. >> that's the head coach doing his best to give wilson, and rogers was hurt in the fourth snap, and he was placed on injured reserve and will need surgery to appeal the achilles. the coach said the four-time nfl mvp will remain with the team during his recovery.

and pablo, great to see you. >> great to be here. >> the front page of the new york post has the time and the date the rogers era began and ended. 8:17 -- 11 minutes. it's gutting for that team and franchise. >> willie, there's no comparable story to this. jet fans everywhere, they are used to pain and tragedy. they have become used to cosmic farce, but this is unlike anything else they have seen. they had a docu series where rogers was hailed as a savior, and he runs out on the field carrying the american flag and this is the moment everything is different, and it's the moment right after in which everything

is not only the same but worse. i can't think of anything as family and painful at the same time for the jets fan. >> yeah, they had the walk-off touchdown from the rookie, gibson, and he was the piece. to complete the puzzle there, and they had a legitimate shot. >> and it's taunting to jet fans, and they were a quarterback away, and the question is, the guy who is 39 years old, and he fully tears an acl, and is it this season? is this all over now for us as an experiment? do we just fold as a franchise? i don't know. >> oh, my god. >> that's horrible. >> yeah, you don't get lower than this at this point. >> come on!

i can't believe this. listen. i like the jets and i am a falcons fan, so maybe i understand pain better than most when it comes to nfl teams, but a couple news flashes. they beat the buffalo bills without aaron rodgers. they have a great defense. they have got above average special teams. they have got a really good running back with hall. you know what? i will say the name, brock purdy. i mean, look at purdy, mr. irrelevant. look what he did. >> that's right, in san francisco. >> we always look. the new york yankees in baseball, and we look at the big shining stars without realizing you build super bowl champions and world series champions from the ground up, and you start with a great defense and great special teams.

i'm just saying, and i am throwing cold water on the funeral procession, because the jets did beat josh allen and the bills on monday night after adversity. >> i feel like they could hire joe scarborough to go and talk to the team, and i don't know, the bad news about the quarterback is wilson, and he is the guy that the docu series claimed as not good enough and that's why aaron rodgers needed to step in, and they did not make the playoffs last year, and awful it feels like, again, the most jets thing imaginable. a lot to get to on "morning joe." cities across the country are reporting major increases in crime. but our next guest says police can defeat it, and former nypd commissioner joins us.

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we have a follow-up now on a discussion we were having on yesterday's show about cities and states across the country reporting major increases in total crime. >> by the way, it, of course, surged after covid and in 2020, and then it went down, and now we are seeing in washington, d.c. -- actually "the washington post" says they reported there was a sharp rise in the past year in washington, d.c. with homicide shootings and armed carjackings rattling the capital of america. >> violent crime is up 30% with homicide seeing a 28% increase in sexual abuse up 6%, and

property crime is seeing a major increase. total theft up 27%, while motor vehicle theft is up 110%. but this is not just a washington, d.c. problem, but new york city saw total crime rising 22% between 2021 and 2022, while los angeles saw an 11% increase. it's not just a big city problem. birmingham, alabama, saw total crime rates increase 13% last year. >> by the way, jacksonville, having a lot of problems,ing and they have really high crime, and the two cities with the most crime this year, monroe, louisiana, and bess amyrrh alabama, right outside of birmingham. >> yeah, joining us now, former new york city police

commissioner, now the chairman of tanao risk. and a federal law enforcement chief, and an msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, and former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill here with us as well, and also a former prosecutor she is. >> you wrote an op-ed talking about how police can make a big difference in pushing back on the crime waves. talk about how they do it? >> first is with the leadership, joe. one of the problems is the union of american policing has been changing dramatically. the vast majority of police chiefs, the 75 largest cities in the country, turned over in the last couple of years, so we have, if you will, a major change in leadership. the good news is leadership has come up through those difficult

times, and they are better educated. the problems they are facing are the problems that america is facing. we have a phenomenal amount of new types of crime. and over the last several years, we have had a reduction in dealing with disorder as evidenced by so many of the behaviors being reported. america will have to make up its mind, what does it want to do in terms of dealing with this problem. we can deal with it, and we have dealt with it in the past in the '70s and '90s, and the safest year in new york was 2018, and that was only years ago. >> commissioner, as you mentioned, you don't have to go far to go into a cvs and see

everything is locked up, and you have to have somebody come and get things because of the shoplifting problem, and you are asking somebody who works a register to become a police officer and stop people from committing crimes. what are some of the police officers across the country, what tools do they need to put a stop to some of this? >> the problem is some of the tools that we had and i had when i was a young cop in the 1970s have been taken away. new york city, for example, new york authorized civil summons for shoplifting and public urination, and they don't show up or pay the fine, and they basically though them away. >> all right. we interrupt the commissioner for breaking news out of pennsylvania. escaped convict, danelo cavalcante has been captured, according to a tweet by pennsylvania state police which

announced a press conference in the 9:00 eastern time hour. state police said earlier they were pursuing cavalcante in chester county northwest of philadelphia. cavalcante was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole last month having been convicted of fatally stabbing his former girlfriend, and his escape from the chester county prison was on august 31st and it was captured on video showing him stretching himself and shimmying up the wall. he eluded hundreds and hundreds of police officers using drones, helicopters, dogs, and canvassing the area since he broke out of prison on august 31st, and that was one week after he was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of his ex-girlfriend. prosecutors said he stabbed his

ex-girlfriend dozens of times in front of her two young children in august of 2021. he had been convicted for that murder and was able to escape. an incredible video from the prison showing him climbing up the wall and somehow getting out across the roof, and willie, this is something that is really captivated the country, but also traumatized an entire several counties in pennsylvania who had to live wondering if this man would show up on their doorstep, and he literally did yesterday go into the garage of a gentleman who fired shots at him before he stole a firearm and got away. >> yeah, he stole a ..22 caliber rifle from the garage, and the man fired at him and missed, and

cavalcante got away. there have been the state police and fbi and u.s. marshals office have been looking for this man for two weeks who is a convicted murderer. schools have been closed in the area, and residents were told to lock their doors. a community is on edge, and now he has been captured, and not killed, captured, which means he's in custody right now and we will learn more about how he survived out there and made it for two weeks. let's listen in to our affiliate, wcau's coverage of the capture now of danelo cavalcante. >> still in this area, i can tell you state police were right when they said they believed he was contained to their parameter, and that is accurate. he was captured within their parameter, their 8 to 10-mile parameter, and you can see a thumbs up from some of the technical crews that are heading

out this morning. these guys have been working around the clock, and a lot of it is just standing outside and looking around and trying to see if you spot anything in the rugged terrain. last week, two weeks ago, hot conditions and temperatures in the 90s. today we had intense downpours with the rain coming down, and in addition to just working they have been dealing with the conditions for two weeks, and it is a long fight and they were down here every day leading to the capture just a few minutes ago. >> headed out in the heat and rain -- >> yeah, it's exhausting. and you see the tactical officers with the thumbs up, we did it. let's get to sky force 10. >> we're following the breaking news out of pennsylvania where the escaped convict, danelo cavalcante, has been captured. we will be getting a lot more information at the top of the

hour where pennsylvania state police will be holding a news conference. again, a lot of relief in chester county, pennsylvania, where this escaped convict, a murderer convicted of stabbing his girl friend to death had been on the run for several weeks, and willie, a lot of relief for these towns and communities in pennsylvania that were really frightened as he had been spotted several times, and even confronted a homeowner. >> yeah, and as we see here, this is doorbell camera video, and according to authorities, he had gone to the homes of former co-workers, and he was seeking help to elude officers, and he was on the run. good to have you back with us today, and captured is the word and not killed. he has been captured according to the pennsylvania state police, and we will learn more in just a few moments.

the authorities knew he had a rifle in his possession, and this man is a convicted murderer, and the warnings to the community got more intense, and we sure hope nobody else was hurt over the last two weeks, and we will find out shortly. what do you read into the little bit of information we have so far? >> well, kudos to the law enforcement in that community, and to the community at large in chester county, pennsylvania. i think the most important thing here is he was captured without incident. we know the moment that he took possession of a weapon, that could have gone any kind of way, and it's a good thing he did not. what occurred at this point is certainly a great deal of relief at the community at large and to the country who has been standing by watching, that he has been brought into custody and secured. but i think going forward, i think there are lessons in this

for many of our correctional institutions that have done a great job in holding these types of individuals. periodically we have these types of events that take place. kudos, again, to law enforcement and to that community is going to be much easier for them to sleep tonight. hopefully we will continue the coverage on this as things continue to unfold. >> again, we don't know exactly the circumstances of his capture, and as i said before, we certainly hope -- we hope no civilian was hurt after he secured that firearm. it was a .22 caliber rifle, and if he attempted a shootout with law enforcement, it would not go well for him. and we are talking about 500 law enforcement officers over the course of a couple of weeks, and pennsylvania state police, and fbi, atf, and u.s. marshals, this was all hands on deck.

>> there are no limitations when you have a convicted killer who has escaped incarceration, and who has integrated himself into a community and had done so for about two weeks, and then secured a weapon. at that point, you utilize all resources of personnel and power that you have in order to do what needs to be done, in order to bring this person back into captivity. but, i mean, this is -- this is an experience that hopefully that community will never have to experience again, and no other parts of our communities against this country will have to experience. here, again, i think it's just -- it's just fortunate for everybody, as far was know, willie, as you stated, as far as we know, nobody has been injured. >> we will find out more about a press conference at 9:30 by the

pennsylvania state police. i am curious now that we have him in custody, we will find out more how that went down soon. what questions remain pertaining to certainly, you know, mika, one thing that comes to mind to me as a former law enforcement official, when i sat down and talked to this subject, would be what plan, how long had you been planning this, how did you come to determination that you were going to execute this plan, and try to glean as much as you can from him in terms of what are the holes in our security system here in this correctional institution that we can correct and do better at. so i think it would be an opportunity to certainly be a learning experience for that correctional institution to be shared with other correctional institutions across the country.

you take a bad situation such as this and turn it into something that hopefully will secure all these types of facilities throughout the country and give us even a much more secure process of keeping very dangerous individuals like cavalcante incarcerated. >> for sure. given the fact he was on the run for so long, this really was a needle in a haystack. certainly, a lot can be said about the search operation, and, you know, we don't know exactly what the exact details were of his capture. we'll find out more at 9:30 eastern time during the press conference with pennsylvania state police. but the fact they got him what were the odds? were you certain that this was going to end well? >> well, i certainly -- i was not certain this was going to end well, particularly after we learned he had gained possession

of a weapon. i knew at that point, i had a feeling at that point that things could not turn out very good. but fortunately for us, they did. but i think the important thing here, again, is that everyone is safe and we're going to -- and hopefully law enforcement and our correctional institution will take note of the experience that can be learned and shared with the rest of the country, and particularly law enforcement, who now have an opportunity to share with all of us, when you have this type of prolonged and protracted incident that has taken place, what were some of the things we'd learned we've done very well and what are some of the things we learned from that we can improve upon. it's always -- in these unfortunate incidents, there's always opportunities for us to learn something about operations and strategically and technically how we move through the operations.

but kudos to all of law enforcement there, both at the local, state, and federal level, and for the community, because you cannot -- community, they called in and they did what they needed to do, in particular that very brave neighbor who, when the subject came up on this property, he fired shots at him because apparently he felt threatened. >> forgive my interruption. we're told this is the vehicle, the tactical police vehicle where danelo cavalcante is being held. he was captured and now being transported inside that vehicle. just looking at that, the vehicle that was used and the contact cal units that were out there speaks to how seriously they were taking this threat. i imagine as we look at these pictures, the fact that this is a guy who had nothing to lose, he'd just been sentenced to life in prison for murder nine days before and then was armed, certainly ratcheted up the level of urgency here.

>> yes. and in many cases he didn't have anything to lose. the fact that he stayed out in the woods for two weeks as long as he did, captured and secured with a weapon, really suggests to me that he was pretty desperate, because this certainly could have ended in a very, very bad way for him. but the community is safe today. the community will be safe tonight. law enforcement officials, they're safe. and we're a safe community tonight in that state and across this country as a result of the work that has been done there in the last several weeks. and that's tough work they were doing. i mean, day in, day out, pulling long 12-, 18-hour shifts. and i can only imagine how gruelling that must have been for all the law enforcement personnel and the community that was threatened, because if you remember, willie, just yesterday

i believe they shut down schools in that community. >> yes, they did. >> once they learned he had taken possession of a weapon. that's serious business. >> yeah. >> so he's in custody, and that's a good thing. and everybody will rest better today and tonight. >> absolutely. what happens from here? i know we're in the early moments here, but obviously the man just showed he can escape from a county jail where he was being held. what is next, do you expect, for cavalcante? >> certainly, i'm quite sure they'll make sure he's very secure after this event. i'm quite sure they're looking at their own protocols around the security in that jail. but i think going forward here again, it's an opportunity, a learning opportunity for corrections at that institution and that state and across this country, we all maybe can learn something from, because there's nowhere that is 100% secure. and there's always that very,

very small, willie, possibility of someone escaping. and we know it happens upon occasion. but on this particular set of circumstances, we're talking about a convicted killer who was incarcerated and who cleverly escaped and cleverly stay nld those woods for two weeks, surviving, and used up a great deal of resources throughout that community and throughout that state. but he's in custody. >> yeah. our control room is monitoring all different kinds of reports coming in, including local coverage. you talk about how he cleverly was able to hide in the woods. there is some report that he may have gotten supplies from a local dairy farm, maybe stolen some supplies, some food and other supplies.

we're also being told -- and i was listening to other things while you were talking, you may have said this, that they're either taking him to state policebarracks or a local hospital, which is customary, but he will be under heavy, heavy security as they do so. >> yeah. >> danelo cavalcante, escaped convict who feels sentenced to life in prison for the murder of his girlfriend, the stabbing murder, has been cap which you wered. pennsylvania state police are going to be holding a news conference in 30 minute toss talk more about how this went down. we did see video of members of the different units and teams that were working on trying to search and find cavalcante, giving a thumbs up that things had gone well. we don't know exactly how the capture went down, if anybody was hurt.

we do know he was armed and dangerous, as police had been trying to alert the community to this for several weeks now, as he shows up in different locations and inside people's homes. he frayed nerves and stressed out this community to the point they shut down schools. once again, danelo cavalcante has been captured, and that is him in there, in that van, headed to either pennsylvania state police barracks or the hospital. we'll find out soon. once again, this was a convicted murderer who had been on the run and completely frightening, terrifying a community in pennsylvania, chester county. he's caped from the chester county prison on august 31st. and that's cape was actually captured on surveillance video. one thing we will be learning more about is how they will shore up that prison to make sure that doesn't happen again. and cedric alexander making

clear that cavalcante will be a part of that process because they'll get into his thinking and preparation and every move he made so they can shore up the system. but there are questionings that need to be addressed pertaining to his escape. no question that pennsylvania state police and all the other search teams involved in capturing this escaped convict should be given a lot of credit today for getting him in custody safely, seemingly without anybody in the public getting hurt or killed. this man could have held people hostage, murdered more people, he could have done anything. he could have been hundreds of miles away. but they searched the area until they finally got him into custody. that is the brig breaking news out of chester county,

pennsylvania. this night mare is over for this community as danelo cavalcante has been captured. we are just seconds before the top of the hour. if you're just joining us, we're starting the fourth hour of "morning joe" with breaking news out of pennsylvania, where you see right there a very secure van is holding that man, danelo cavalcante, in custody and taking him either to state police barracks or potentially a local hospital to be checked out, which is customary. willie geist, you have been following this as well, and we've been talking to experts about how this went down. obviously, we'll learn a lot more in just about 30 minutes. they plan to hold a press conference, but i think you'd agree that thumbs up we saw from one of the folks involved with the search in the back of a van, sounds like this could have gone worse. >> yeah. those tactical teams we saw in the back of the van in camouflage with heavy arms giving thumbs up as they pulled

out, meaning that got their guy, and you would like to believe, but we don't want to say definitively, but hopefully was injured in his capture, no one was shot, no civilians hopefully were involved. but we'll learn just under 30 minutes from now when the pennsylvania state police give a news briefing on the capture of danelo cavalcante. this escalated on monday night, about 36 hours ago, when a resident said he was sitting in his garage and a shirtless man, who we now know was danelo cavalcante, came into his garage, took a rifle out of the garage. the citizen fired at cavalcante with his handgun, did not hit him, but immediately called police just after 10:00 on monday night and said, i just saw the guy, not only did i see him, he was in my garage and he has a gun. that's why now you started to see schools closing, you saw heightened security, because now you have a convicted murderer, who, as we said, had nothing to lose. as tense as things were for

nearly two weeks, the last 36 hours have been even more tense because a convicted mur rer was out on the loose with a gun in his hands. no telling on what he was planning on doing. so, cedric alexander, 9:00 on the east coast, 6:00 a.m. out west, we are looking at a tactical police vehicle containing danelo cavalcante, who has now been captured according to the pennsylvania state police. what more can you adhere about this manhunt that -- it was two weeks ago tomorrow, august 31st that cavalcante escaped from the chester county prison, where he was being held after being convicted of murder and sentenced to life there, about this effort of more than 500 law enforcement officers from across state, local, and federal agencies? >> again, no one reported injuries, anyone that we know of, so this is going to be a

case of a successful retrieval of a very dangerous individual who was certainly a threat to that community. had he gotten outside of that community, he would have been a further threat, continuous counties and states and to the rest of this country. i'm. very thankful. i will intelligent you as a former law enforcement official, that he has been recaptured and will be brought back to some holding facility. we're quite sure the security is probably going to be off the charts with him, willie. but i think going forward here again, as we talked about earlier, this is an opportunity certainly for law enforcement and for the correctional institutions there and across the country to take a look at its own security platforms and

protocols and make sure that these types of things, this type of incident where someone who is a very, very dangerous felon and who had the potential of being violent to the point where he committed a murder, we want to make sure that these people are properly secured, incarcerated, and the chances of them getting out and escaping is virtually zero to none. so there's something here to be done, work to be done, an assessment, not in a critical way but in a way we just learn and we move forward, and we're just all happy and glad today and tonight that this subject has been brought back into custody. >> as you've been speaking here, cedric, we're told that that vehicle is headed to state place -- police barracks. we're waiting for a news briefing about 25 minutes from

now. that would suggest he does not need treatment at a hospital. that was one of the other options where they could have taken him, perhaps suggesting he was not shot or injured seriously. cedric, given your vast experience in law enforcement, can you tell us what it's like to have someone on the run when your job and sworn responsibility is to protect the public? someone who is a convicted murder and has a weapon, you're working around the clock, you're doing everything you can every minute of every day to find the person, but you don't quite know how it's going to end, and you're certainly hoping none of the civilians you're sworn to protect are injured in the capture of the guy. what is that like from a law enforcement perspective? >> well, i'm quite sure for them it was one of great anxiety. but of course you don't have the time to concern yourself about your anxiousness around this. you have to plan and prepare, be able to move quickly, be able to change direction, be able to

communicate with each other and the law enforcement community. they have far greater technology today, certainly than in the early years of my career. i can take you back, willie, to 1978 in tallahassee, florida. a young deputy sheriff there in leon county, florida, after the death of three members of the florida state university, we later learned that theodore bundy was the assay lantz and murderer who was subsequently convicted an received a death penalty in the state of florida. but i'm going to tell you, i was a young deputy sheriff, about 23 years of age, when he was captured in pensacola, brought over to tallahassee, florida, and i get the responsibility along with other deputy, both those that were in a helicopter above and those that followed me, but i was responsible for taking him back and forth to court. and in the back seat of my car was someone who was a serial killer that we know, one of the

most dangerous people of the 20th century. and it is -- it is -- it is extremely anxiety feeling when you're in those types of situations dealing with those types of persons, whether you're doing it close and personal such as what i did early in my career, these 500 officers out there as they combed through those thick brush in a vast amount of wooded area there in chester county, the anxiety and the fear certainly associated with the fact that he could pop out at any particular time. because once he was in possession of a weapon, willie, mika, not only did he have a rifle, he had a rifle with a scope and a light, which put him at some tactical advantage. so the anxiety associated with this is certainly one to -- you

know, is a real tough one, but kudos to those officers. >> it is eight minutes past the top of the hour. if you're just joining us, for several counties in pennsylvania, the anxiety and the fear and the waiting and the wondering is over. danelo cavalcante has been captured. the convicted murderer who had been on the run since august 31st for more than two weeks, armed and extremely dangerous, convicted murderer. he got away from a prison by shimmying up a wall and out of a roof. a lot of questions about exactly how he escaped, and those will be answered in the weeks and months to come. but the big question has always been looming over these counties that have lived in fear for days now, not even sending their kids to school. they've been so scared as he's been spotted here and spotted there and entered a gentleman's home and had a confrontation

with a homeowner. these communities have been on the edge of their seats in fear as to when he would show up next, especially because he stole a firearm from a homeowner's garage. he broke out of prison on august 31st, so this whole time danelo cavalcante has been on the run, which is incredible within itself that he was able to stay alive and withstand the elements and elude authorities all at the same time. his escape happened a week after he was sentenced to life in prison. a man who had nothing left to lose. but this is a man who had been convicted of murdering his girlfriend brutally, stabbing her multiple times. the danger he posed to the community was really inexplicable. he was so dangerous at this point that they had hundreds of law enforcement units, tactical

teams scouring the area and slowly closing in on him. and honestly, when we heard from pennsylvania state police several times going to news conferences over the past couple of weeks following this search, they were confident, they were confident that they were -- would get him. they had a sense that they could stress him out of this situation. and it will be so interesting in the news conference in just about 20 minutes to hear how this went down, because seemingly, it went down without anybody in the public being injured. we don't know for sure yet how this happened. but we know that he is not going to the hospital. he's going to the pennsylvania state police barracks right now, so he's in one piece. we'll have to see if any firearms were engaged in this capture. but the latest we know right now is very good news, that this escaped prisoner, danelo

cavalcante, has been captured and is on his way to pennsylvania state police barracks. of the things we've heard along the way is that one of the ways he was able to survive for so long out in the wild and stealing cars and getting from place to place was that he had stolen supplies possibly from a local dairy farm, so that's perhaps how he was able to sustain himself. in the past 36 hours he broke into a home and had a confrontation with a homeowner, and that's where he was shot at and stole a firearm. >> george solis has been on the ground covering this story for the past couple weeks. what more can you tell us about the news that cavalcante has been captured? >> reporter: good morning, willie, good morning, mika. obviously, a big sigh of relief in this community. we just heard the radio call that went out to all agencies

announcing his capture. we hear the dispatch office saying, "i am proud to announce that the subject is in custody." then you can just hear that sigh of relief. it was nearly a two-week run before he was captured. this dynamic in the search changed dramatically day by day, especially after he broke that initial radius where wefbled he was heidting out in a botanical garden where he stole that refrigerated van from the dairy farm, went up toward upper chester county, and then appeared to have changed his appearance. he was clean shaven. he was reaching out to former co-worker, authorities, very concerned he was growing more desperate. as you mentioned, he somehow entered the home of a homeowner's garage and then stole his .22 rifle. that homeowner firing shots, missed him, and then cavalcante sort of disappeared. authorities in this wooded area, this new eight- to

ten-square-mile area in his prison shoes. and it appeared some work boots were stolen from a nearby porch. overnight we heard from our nbc affiliate here, cwau, that they may have recovered a bag he was using. we saw early on in the first images he acquired a duffel or backpack. but it led authorities in the right direction, because i'm hearing that he was picked up right around that same area where that bag was found. so, again, we are minutes away from a press conference where pennsylvania state police will detail all of this information about his capture, because they know that the pressure is on. we have been grilling them daily to give us more information about where he might be, with what they know about him, his whereabouts, and how he was able to elude capture. they had 500 officers on the ground at one point scouring wooded areas day and night. the rain has been tricky, with

the weather, extreme heat to the rain. so, again, now this morning we are hearing danelo cavalcante back in custody. we at this moment do not have an exact location where he's headed. we know per the transport he's headed to an undisclosed location. at this time, we are working to find those details. but the good news, this fugitive has been captured. >> george, we have confirmation now in a statement from the chester county commissioner, chester county is the area that's been terrorized, frankly, and beyond on edge the last two week, writing in part, "the capture of cavalcante ends the nightmare of the past two weeks." they thanked every law enforcement official at the regional, state, and federal level out in all weather conditions day and night for their immense efforts. also thanking the public, businesses for their cooperation, getting ring camera video and telling the stories of having seen him or obviously that exchange on monday night with a man in the garage where they exchanged gunfire, or at

least the homeowner shot at him. also saying at the end that chester county prison officials are making immediate changes to bolster security in the prison. they've already brought in contractors to make changes to the exercise yard, reviewing procedures, et cetera. george, i know it's early hours here, but do we have any sense of how this capture went down? in other words, we are learning this vehicle is not headed to a hospital. does that suggest to you, or have you heard there was an exchange of gunfire? any details around his capture? . >> yeah, willie, working to confirm much of that at the moment. it does not appear there was an exchange of gunfire. it seems some of the tactical crews out there were able to spot him with that bag they found and able to take him into custody. at this moment, it doesn't appear there was any kind of severe incident, but we are still working with various sources to verify those details

like the time of the capture, exactly, where he was hiding, if he still had that weapon on him that he stole. one of the concerns earlier on, too, was that he had been shirtless. in some images we see it did appear he acquired additional clothing. this is all late breaking, and we have so many questions about the capture and where he might be hemded to next. that was one of the main questions we had early on. if he was captured, would he be taken back to the same facility he broke out of. the va here in chester county saying quite frankly, no, he will be take on the another location. so we will work on all those details and of course bring them to you as soon as we learn them. >> the news conference from the pennsylvania state police set to begin less than 15 minutes from now, so hopefully we get a whole bunch of answers to our questions here. george, you've been out there for almost the full two weeks covering this story. can you speak to the level of fear that was pervasive in these

communities? as of monday, schools started to close because cavalcante had a weapon. obviously, home owners were told to lock their windows, their doors, their vehicles. they knew that an escaped, convicted murderer was out there with a gun. what was it like on the ground in these communities? >> reporter: yeah. i can tell you there was a lot of fear, a lot of anger, a lot of skepticism up until yesterday. we spock with the doctor who was visiting his parent where is the most recent exchange of that gunfire took place, and this family was territerrified. i spoke to some of cavalcante's -- one of his former roommates. he was petrified that he would try and reach out to him after that doorbell camera appeared of him trying to reach out to co-workers. he frankly hadn't had any contact in years. i sat down with the sister of the woman cavalcante was convicted of killing. she was terrified, saying the family had to sleep together in

the room because they did not know where he might appear next, especially once word broke out he was slipping past some of the perimeters that police had set up. communities, of course, some very supportive of the effort of law enforcement. they know the conditions were tough. they know this terrain was difficult to navigate. some thought it would go on for weeks and months, and others were confident that they knew where he was more than likely going to be pinned down in this chester county community. this morning we know that the lieutenant colonel, and the focal part of all these press conferences, will probably take a moment to get the knowledge, the fact he kept his word, they captured their man. >> george, if you could stay with us, that would be great. we are following breaking news. for two long weeks, pennsylvania state police navigating public safety carefully releasing information and calling for

citizens in the chester county area of pennsylvania to lock up as they searched for an armed killer. law enforcement on every level and the local community got the job done. escaped convict danelo cavalcante has been captured. hess in that van in the live pictures. former fbi special agent clint watts, you've been listening to coverage and following this for the past few weeks. what comes to mind? it appears this went down as well as it could have. >> yeah. i think that's right, mika. when we were talking about this just last friday, the worry was this person is a convicted murderer, he may be wanted on a homicide case down in brazil, and he may have a weapon. when you add those together, your mind starts to go to the worst places. i think the good news is it duntsd appear to have been a

very violent incident as he is taken into custody. i think it's also a testament to the law enforcement officers who stayed on this over the last two weeks to track this person down. the most remarkable, i think just looking at this, eric rudolph was the famous case of someone who, you know, stayed essentially in a wanted status, hidden in the hills of north carolina for many, many years. look at this case, how many times, you know, private citizens' cameras picked up on this individual as he moved from place to place. those were the tips and leads that law enforcement used. at the same point, this individual never went really far, you know, from where he escaped. it's a little bit different in the sense that did he have a plan, what was his plan, and he did evade capture at least for a couple weeks. so, really good news for everybody in pennsylvania and a testament to the law enforcement there in pennsylvania to bring this to an end. >> you really can't emphasize

how dangerous this man was. he was a week from being sentenced for life in prison for stabbing his girlfriend to death and was able to shimmy his way out of the prison. that in itself, clint, raises so many questioquestions. i old love for you to touch on that. you mentioned security cameras and the work of citizens, and really some of the images of cavalcante as he transforms his look. must have been very helpful along the way. the images are really good. >> they're really good images. they helped identify that transition in terms of his appearance. thinking back a decade or two, you wouldn't know it. we would be making sketches trying to calculate what he might look like if he had shaven. now we know almost instantly, within 24 hours, probably, you see what he looks like shaven. we're not guessing. we have an actual appearance.

those sorts of technological advantages are immensely helpful for law enforcement. >> yep. and the escape from the prison raises so many questions. we had a previous expert, cedric alexander, talking about how they will get some of their answers from cavalcante himself. but it was incredibly brazen, and it almost seems impossible to think how he could have escaped this prison, a convicted murderer. >> that's right. i think the one thing, mika, that will keep coming up time and time again, it's highly similar to another escape plot that had just occurred maybe just a couple months before, which means cavalcante watched this potentially or knew about this escape, and they could repeat a lot of the same steps. you know, just running a prison and not shoring up those gaps, it's just, you know, irresponsible. i'm sure part of the investigation and the look in terms of the aftermath, what happened, why wasn't this being

taken care of, it sounds like it's being taken care of now, but it's a little too late. we have an entire county and community that's been basically terrorized in the past few weeks. lots of discussions of home owners having this person either at their doorstep or inside their house. that is just, you know, really traumatizing for all of the community. so i'm sure there's going to be a lot of scrutiny placed on the prison and how this could happen, what appears to be twice in about a three-month period. >> yeah. as i said, the county commissioner said they already brought in outside security contractors and they've fixed that or are in process of fixing that. we certainly hope so. clint, we were talking to cedric about the scope of this across state, local, and federal agencies, law enforcement, more than 500 officers, just kind of where you begin with something like this. yes, you have the help of citizens, you have cameras nowadays, but it's still a bit of a needle in a haystack with a guy running around especially in wooded areas like that.

how do you run an operation like that over a two-week period? >> yeah. so, two parts to this. really, it's the unity between state, local, and federal resources. you saw the u.s. marshals, you know, were involved right away, the fbi obviously involved. the reasons they do that at the federal level is they can relay evidence, they can do things like understanding technical signatures, they've got the networks to broadcast across the nation, but at the same point we see, you know, the pennsylvania law enforcement, state police really taking the lead role in a lot of this. i think the one thing that's happened over the last 10 to 20 years is really the ics, the incident command system, being put together in a very deliberate and routine way. if you walk back to, you know, the late '90s, early 2000s, it just wasn't quite that, you know, well flushed out. most of this is seamless now. if you look at the local, the state and federal resources, they do rehearse a lot together.

they're used to working together, especially around areas of pennsylvania, which has a really strong law enforcement community and works fairly well together all the time. whether it's jtts in terms of the terrorism task forces to everything involving this manhunt. so, they came together i think very efficiently and quickly. i think you're seeing the effects of that, which is they're able to pick up on tips and leads, able to engage the community for evidence and pull in things like those ring camera photos, and they're able to synchronize and do routine briefs. oich v to say in the last 20 years, the way law enforcement at all levels work and operate together has drastically improved, and i think that's the outcome of what you're seeing today. >> this is the moment of capture of danelo cavalcante. you see law enforcement has him secured, handcuffs, hands behind his back. he's clothed. there was some talk he didn't have a shirt, everything had changed about him. he cut his hair. that's our first look at him

captured. an entire community, entire county, entire section of a state breathing a little bit easier. we're going to get a police briefing with pennsylvania state police, we're told, in just about five minutes. we'll get a whole bunch of these questions answered about how it happened, how they captured him, whether there was an exchange of gunfire, what the confrontation was like. former atf special agent in charge jim kavanagh. atf was involved in this successful effort to capture danelo cavalcante. governor shapiro yesterday said again, anyone thinking about helping this guy, danelo cavalcante, just know that you, too, will be prosecuted, you will be held accountable, because we know that cavalcante had gone to the homes, knocked on the doors of some former co-workers, perhaps seeking hem or at least some food or clothing. and the law enforcement and the governor of the state made it

very clear, if you aid this criminal, you, too, may find yourself in jail. what do you make of the scene you've seen in the last few minutes here, jim? >> well, willie, the structure, the leadership, the resources they laid out to do this is what resulted in the capture of this killer, a double murderer, killed two people. so, very good. this is what they did. they assembled a dream team of law enforcement -- city, county, state, federal agencies. they all brought their tactical assets in, their dog, helicopters and am airplanes an manpower and were able to stay steady pressing this killer while he was on foot. they set up a cordon. he slipped it a couple times, but they didn't lose focus, they stayed with it. he made a mistake. he had to move. somebody spotted him, an officer

or it a zen, a dog picked up his trail. he needed to take a risk to get a car, probably wanted to go south of the border and get out of this otd area. they did a great job staying steady on him, and now it's over for him. he's going to the last cell in the last cellblock in the basement of the state prison now. >> yeah. they're not going to make that mistake twice. jim, thanks so much. clint, as we look at these images now, if you're just joining us near the bottom of the hour here, police in pennsylvania along with federal law enforcement have, in fact, captured the escaped killer, danelo cavalcante, nearly two weeks after he's caped from the chester county prison and terrorized a number of communities. he did get a gun about 36 hours ago from a garage, a homeowner confronted him as he was in the garage, the homeowner shot at him. he got away. but he did have a rifle in his possession.

that certainly escalated things. some schools were closed. residents were told to stay home, lock your doors, your vehicle, all this. the gun in the hand of a convicted murderer must have changed things a bit. >> that's right, willie. it's the worst-case scenario. you know, it's the one we have these horrors about, an escaped murderer who has a weapon, is on the run, people don't know where he's at. it's remarkable that law enforcement was able to close on him. it could have been the last piece of evidence, you know, information that he needed to really track and get close to this individual again after he'd been on the move for a couple weeks. at the same point, there's no doubt its escalated the situation dramatically. the law enforcement officers going into this situation now, they have to bhoouch a sense of urgency, but at the same point, the level of risk of their own lives trying to deal with this obviously goes up when you have a convicted murderer whose also

carrying a weapon. so, i think it's great news that we've had this resolution today, and the subject has been captured. at the same point, you know, how did the law enforcement officers go about doing it, and, you know, i'm interested in this press conference to see was there a violent confrontation or not, or did this individual just surrender to law enforcement, because it is a very scary situation when you know that that person's got a rifle. you're out there hunting him in unknown territory. and as a law enforcement officer, as group of law enforcement officers, it just creates incredible risk. so i'm very happy to see today that this seems to have resolved itself in a somewhat peaceful manner. >> and the goal always for law enforcement is not to have to take shots at him but to arrest him, capture him, let the justice system do what it does with him. but if he did raise that rifle at them, there would have been some kind of shoot-out. we have no indication that

happened, but we'll find out shortly. this is the podium at the top right of your screen. that's where the pennsylvania state police officials there will come out and gives us a briefing in just a few minutes, we're told, about how this all went down. clint, when we tuque about the scope of it, let's talk about methods as well. jim kavanagh talked about dog, helicopters, social media posts all week of people, you know, sitting on their back porches or sitting on their farms and helicopters are shining lights down on their neighborhoods and their communities. what all went into this in terms of assets, do you think, that perhaps led to his capture? >> it seem like they deployed everything from under the sun, manhunt techniques, law enforcement officers, dogs, helicopters. but i think the big thing we see just with the pictures we got here right now is the technology that citizens have in their own hands. the internet and then, you know, move to social media, from social media now to integrated

security cameras on many homes from rural areas to urban areas. you see there's some sort of camera out there or detection system out there one way or another. and then add to that the relay system of the internet and the media. in the case of this escapey, cavalcante, we knew what he looked like when he escaped, knew how he had escaped, we saw pictures of what he looked like, we saw pictures of him relatively quickly every time it was discovered by maybe a camera at someone's house, and just like we were mentioning with mika earlier, you see pictures of what pe looks like shaven. that is incredible that we can relay that sort of information not just in pennsylvania, but across the united states very quickly. it helps law enforcement for identification. they now know what to look like, the clothes. if you'd gone back 20 years we'd be describing that sweatshirt and hoodie with his hat. now we see what it looks like,

what his face looks like. all of this contributes to moving much, much quicker. add to that the integrated law enforcement response that jim was talking about, it's fairly seamless now the way they work in these incident command systems from local to state to federal. they know each other and how to work together, they can respond very quickly. all of this is very positive for bringing a safe environment to local communities. >> clint, stay with us. we want to listen in now to the coverage from our affiliate nbc 10 philadelphia, wcau, as they cover what is a local story for them. let's listen. >> beautiful chester county. it's a tight-knit community. we don't often see this kind of law enforcement response. glad to see them when they showed up, right? >> so relieved. >> reporter: kathleen, thank you very much. glad to meet you. glad you can get back to school and back to normal. this is a tractor supply store of some kind just off route 100

where the capture happened or at least close to it, as close as we can get at this point. hoping to get more details in the next couple minutes from that pennsylvania state police news conference happening about exactly how this capture went down. we're hearing the same story from these residents. it's a happy day for them because it was so scary. think about a man armed with this gun. he is already a convicted killer twice, and now has a fireplace arm on the loose in this very rural part of chester county. so, there was so much concern, a lot of people just staying in their homes the last few days, now able to come outside. she said the sun came out. there was an intense storm overnight too. you probably heard the lightning and thunder. now it's sunshine and people are happy and relieved, thanking pennsylvania state police as well as the border patrol tactical teams involved with this search and capture. one more look at the tractor supply. we'll head back down into the ravine and see what we can see, and we'll have that for you.

the news conference should start in a few minutes. back to you guys. >> the calm after the storm, if you will. you could feel the sense of relief that woman and her daughter were feeling. >> absolutely. the top left-hand corner of your screen, you can believe when this news conference begins at that firehouse, we'll bring it to you live. we have our eyes on that podium right there. and we have our eyes on sky force 10, as this special response team vehicle containing danelo cavalcante, who is alive and captured, is headed to the state police barracks on moxley road in avondale. not right back to the chester county prison, where he escaped two weeks ago today, august 31st. we're continuing to track his movements as police have tracked his movements for the past two weeks. >> yeah. let's go back to diana durante. she covers montgomery county and

has been working her sources. 8:20 this morning, that was the moment when he was captured. >> that was the moment we knew he was captured. i think there were a few minutes before people were able to answer their phones and fully confirm it, but we do know it was early this morning just as people were supposed to be going to school. you saw the family that randy was speaking to. schools are still closed because those parking lots, those buildings, that's where law enforcement has been staging, switching out their radios and changing into tactical gear. so the schools needed to be shut down because of the significant law enforcement presence that was there. we were on the grounds of the high school in the school district for a short time yesterday. we were able to see a little bit about that effort there. but, yeah, early this morning. but as we know, this started last night where they really believe they had that small piece of a major search area surrounded, that there was what

we call a heat signature, what law enforcement is calling a heat signature, that sources say from a federal aviation piece of equipment, perhaps that picked that up. and early this morning i was hearing from the various s.w.a.t. teams that they were moving in, changing direction, going into that, fresh s.w.a.t. teams brought in, some from montgomery county, some from much further away. we saw license plates from new jersey and new york. but you had them all closing in. it was a state police dog that went in there and saw the movement. and also keep in mind, just because his capture is now, you know, on the books, the investigation into what he's done the last 14 days still ongoing. the investigation into how did he get through the prison there. we've heard that -- you've seen the video, how he catwalked or spider-mans as some law enforcement sources told us, up that wall to that roof, the

first images we saw of him when he first escaped two weeks ago. he had a towel or a sweat shirt. that's what he threw over bar shed wire to be able to climb those fences and get out. we know in the last 14 days he's predominantly been out in the woods. sources tell me that when he was eluding police after the murder in brazil in the early 2000s, that he spent significant time in the jungles, and they believe he was able to hide in trees there. so, that is guy that was used to being out in the elements. pictures that i have of him recently being loaded into that bearcat you see there, going to the state police barracks in southern chester county, they changed his clothes. it appears he's wearing shorts and he is shirtless. i can see in image what looks like a lot of dirt on his back. he's handcuffed from behind. and we are probably going to see many more pictures than we have seen from the air. law enforcement were taking pictures of his capture.

he was wearing the same we believe prison-issued pants, what appeared to be brown work boots that we were told was stolen from a front porch, that those prison sneakers were dumped in the woods. so, he was able to use pretty much what he could find the last 14 days to stay hidden. but clearly today was the day that everything he tried failed, and they moved in and got him. >> as you mentioned, extremely intense law enforcement presence there in that area, something that people aren't used to seeing. >> no. exactly. if you think about what that community has been through, the surrounding chester county area the past two weeks, you heard the woman that was interviewed there said there are no streetlights on our street. she's close to the area where she was captured. again, a state police canine was the one that kind of spotted movement and went and got him initially.

but there are no streetlights out there. she said you couldn't see the front or backyard. >> you look through the window and have no idea. >> we'll continue to dip into that excellent coverage from wcau, nbc 10 in philadelphia. clint, i want to talk to you quickly because some of the reporting we heard there, and how the a.p. confirms, cavalcante was spotted from the air using thermal imaging, a heat signature, something they picked up. can you explain what that means? >> yeah. so, willie, you know, going back just over the last couple decades up to now it's gotten really, really good. thermal imaging is a way you can pick up the heat signature of what would be a human or an animal from the air. so it's a really powerful tool. what it also does is if you look just in the era of fuj tichs and during the war on terror, if someone wanted to move, they often times are trying to move

at night, thermal imaging essentially takes away that ability for anybody on the run, because you can run that through very thick vegetation during the day, run it at night and pick up on heat signatures for it. it's used through most aviation assets that up in the military, now with law enforcement. so, it's a remarkable testament to our technology and how we're able to identify individuals even when they're in lightly concealed areas or moving during the nighttime when it's very difficult to detect them. so, again, you know, big hats off to some of the technology here, whether it was a ring cam are on someone's house or thermal imaging from a helicopter. all these assets combined really allow us to get back up on the trail of some of these individuals, things that would be absolutely impossible 30 or 40 years ago. >> absolutely. we were slowly getting more information as to how law enforcement was able to capture an armed and dangerous convicted murderer who had nothing to

lose, escaping prison a week after receiving a life sentence. momentarily, we'll find out much more. pennsylvania state police will be holding a press conference, and we'll take that live when it happens. but danelo cavalcante is in custody after two weeks on the run in pennsylvania, two weeks in which he stole a van, changed his appearance, broke into a home and stole a gun, was seen several times along the way as law enforcement and tactical units from the air and on the ground were trying to close in on this armed and dangerous escaped convict. and what we find out now in the past five minutes is that it possibly happened just after 8:00 this morning at a tractor supply store where they closed in a perimeter around cavalcante. and as willie and clint were just talking about, a heat

signature was -- thermal imaging from the air was identified, closing in on that to be cavalcante's. and so it's technology, whether it's cameras or thermal imaging, but also instinct of a police dog that was sent into the tractor supply facility, and that dog was able to sense out his movements. as you can see in the video of the escaped convict right there, now in custody, it appears that he was captured without anybody getting injured. we don't know for sure. we'll hear more. the press conference is due to happen any moment now at pennsylvania state police headquarters. but, again, the nightmare for several communities, for a swath of pennsylvania, is over, where people were afraid to walk out

of their homes, people were afraid to send their kids to school, people were afraid this guy would walk into their homes as he did for one home owner in the past 36 hours. they walked into a homeowner's garage and stole a gun. that homeowner actually opened fire on cavalcante, did not hit him. and cavalcante was able to escape with a weapon, making this situation much more tenuous and dangerous for a community that was already in fear. so, again, this escaped killer is in custody after two weeks on the run, and a lot of questions that still need to be answered, willie, but it is looking like this really went according to plan. when you listen to the news conferences by the pennsylvania state police over the past few week, they were closing in on him, and they expressed confidence that they would close

in on him, that they would surround him and stress him out. and it appears that is what they did. >> yeah. and that image on the left side of your screen is the image everyone's been waiting for, especially there in chester county, pennsylvania, for the last two weeks. that is danelo cavalcante, hands behind his back, in handcuffs, in custody to of law enforcement. if you watch that video, you can see officers behind cavalcante, shaking hands, hugging, knowing they got their man. we hope we'll hear in just a minute that no one was injured, no civilian or officer was injured in the process. no evidence of a shoot-out at this point. he was known to be carrying a .22 rifle, which is a small-arms rifle, would have been no match for what the officers are carrying, so no evidence of a shoot-out. but here's a live picture of that tactical ban, a bearcat, a police vehicle that contains danelo cavalcante. clint watts -- okay. we lost clint far moment here. but, mika, i think there will be

a lot of questions for police, namely how exactly this went down, and what we're hearing and you just reported is that it was a combination of technology, which is that thermal imaging, that look down through the trees and perhaps saw the warm outline, the heat temperature of a human being alone in the woods, and then the old-fashioned way of a dog picking up a scent and pursuing what police saw. as we see now, the vehicle has pulled up to the state police barracks in avondale, pennsylvania, and any moment now we should see the convicted mur rer, on the run for two weeks, there he is, danelo cavalcante. appears to be shirtless under that thermal blanket, being led into the police barracks, mika. >> yep. watching this in avondale, pennsylvania, this is an incredible moment for the residents of chester county, pennsylvania, who has been on edge for the past two weeks wondering how this would come to

an end and if his escape would prolong and perhaps people would be brought into it hurt, perhaps even murdered. those questions legit given that he was convicted and sentenced to life for stabbing his girlfriend to death. this man received a life sentence a week before his escape. he shimmied out of a prison and was able to climb out and escape and elude authorities for two long weeks. we see that the pennsylvania state police are now getting ready to have a press conference, hopefully we'll learn more about his capture, how it went down, but we do know so far that he was ultimately surrounded and captured at a tractor supply facility in pennsylvania and that they used thermal imaging ultimately to db like heat sensors to identify him even at night as they were following him using technology

to close in on him and to keep track of him, and then as willie pointed out, it was a police dog that went in and sniffed out and sensed out his movements inside that tractor supply facility. how frightening for the residents in and around the area where he was captured. this is a man who broke into a home in the past 36 hours and was fired at by the homeowner and was able to steal a weapon and ammo. so he went from a dangerous escaped convict that law enforcement was telling residents of several counties to lock their doors, to you know, keep a watch out for this man and not to approach him because he is dangerous becoming ever more dangerous when he gained control and possession of a weapon and ammo. so this guy was loaded up for trouble. the situation became much more complicated when they knew that he had a weapon, but there's

always concern that he could escape, that he could somehow get into a car, that he could have an accomplice, that he could somehow get away and wreak more havoc somewhere. in these counties, in chester county, pennsylvania, where this escaped convict was on the run e they had a scent of where he was because of ring camera footage, because of sightings because of the break in to a home, but they couldn't get their hands on him until just after 8:00 this morning, so escaped convict danelo cavalcante is now in custody, and these communities can finally go back to normal. we're going to listen in to our local affiliate coverage out of philadelphia. this is wcau reporting. >> people were living in fear. a lot of people quite frankly were living in fear just not knowing where this person was

and having him pop up, you know. that's almost scary as well. well, we know he's still in the area because he popped up on this person's ring camera or he reached out to a co-worker to see if the co-worker would help him in some way. so we knew he was still in the area. we just didn't know exactly where, but i got to say, you know, law enforcement throughout it all kept saying we've got this. we are -- we've got extra help. we've got just about every, you know, all law enforcement agencies that you could think of was here trying to capture danelo cavalcante, and it happened just a short time ago. >> we're going to recap when he arrived, you see in the top left-hand corner of your screen. you can see him there covered in that foil that keeps you warm. you often see it after marathons, runners will use it, and you see him shirtless. we understand that they might have cut the eagles hoodie off of him after he was apprehended, and he was brought into a side door of the state police

barracks in avondale. this is an image and a picture that thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in our area and people across the country have been waiting to see for two whole weeks. in fact, some of these live pictures, look at the folks, residents you can imagine people -- >> they gathered. >> -- gathering and the barracks to see this site. this is how much interest and how much fear this has generated have been somebody out and about. >> one of the moms we spoke with just a short tame ago in the last hour said i feel like i've got my home back, i feel like i've got my community back. my daughter can go back to school. >> that's right. let's take a live picture right here from this news conference. we've got two new pictures. we're minutes away from this news conference beginning, wu but you can see a new picture of danelo cavalcante, zooming in on his face, it doesn't appear there's any injury.

again, he was first spotted by a k-9 who went after him, and you're seeing new images here. we're hoping to answer so many questions about this, right? it's taken 14 long days to capture him, to finally find him in south coventry township and bring him to the barracks. this is a live picture from the news conference that's about to take place in kennet square. state police have been in charge of that. and again, images, live picture on the right, the top left-hand corner is when he was brought into the state police barracks just moments ago. >> after 14 days on the run, breaking through a perimeter, moving the perimeter to a different area, you know, extending the perimeter, closing in on perimeter, and finally nabbing him this morning with the help of a police dog, randy gyllenhaal telling us that it was a ravine, a hilly ravine, a

very dense, thick area where they were able to finally apprehend him, again, 14 days after initially escaping from the chester county prison. >> one thing we learned from the "associated press" reporting, they were using thermal imaging from an aircraft to pinpoint that possible location and then they used ground forces to capture him. that's how they were able to narrow him, that state police k-9, exactly. nbc 10, we've been all over this quite literally with sky force 10. you see all those state police and law enforcement officials gathering around this podium flanked by two of those identical images of cavalcante. it appears that's where randy gyllenhaal was live, which is where he was captured at that tractor supply company. he's first being loaded into that vehicle we've been following for the last hour and a half. >> this is a big deal.

you can see the picture of this news conference, many of them smiling. we've said this, but this could have been worse. this could have ended differently, and this ended with no loss of life, relatively peaceful, yes, you know, the community was in fear for quite a while, but boy, you got to think about, you know, what these guys have seen, you know, in their careers. it doesn't always end like this. you don't always get to stand up at a podium and, you know, think, okay, we did it. yes, it took a while, and yes, we were up against all odds, but we got it done. we got him. he's back in custody, a convicted murderer two times over. he's back in custody and no longer roaming around in communities with families and children, and you know, really gripping the whole area in fear. this story got national attention rightfully so because two weeks on the run, that is a long time for an escaped

murderer to be out there. >> with cavalcante crab walking his escape between two walls up on the roof and outside the chester county prison made his way to longwood gardens. from there the perimeter moved multiple times. there's the crab walk on the top left-hand corner of your screen. this is someone who's 5 feet tall, so smaller in stature, probably difficult to see, difficult to find, easy to maneuver through culverts and sewers. all of these possibilities were laid out by law enforcement in their search for him, and once he left longwood gardens, all of a sudden we started to realize and we started asking questions about, you know, how quickly can this happen. so it's a literal needle in a haystack as described by state police, so the fact that they were able to find him without any loss of life, whether it be from residents, law enforcement, and whether they were able to take him peacefully, i'm sure that canine, you know, going after him wasn't pleasant, all

things considered, this is the perfect outcome to a story that has lasted -- >> best possible outcome. >> best possible outcome, exactly. that's lasted two weeks' time. this is a convicted murderer twice over, you know, convicted of murdering an ex-girlfriend in front of her young kids armed with a 22 caliber rifle for the last couple of days, with ammo. if you're just joining us, the top left-hand corner of the screen is when he got out from that police van, about an hour drive from where he was captured. >> and this was a joint effort, right? this was a joint effort from so many different agencies, and as, you know, as we got further and further away from that august 31st escape date, you know, we saw more and more help coming into the area. border control was here helping out. u.s. marshals, the state police and on down. i mean, this was a joint effort. we understand that it was -- you

mentioned a federal drone or some sort of aerial device. >> law enforcement officials from here in the commonwealth of pennsylvania, our local leaders here in chester county, and from a our federal partners all across this nation, shortly after 8:00 a.m. our suspect was captured. i want to say, first and foremost, thank god there were no injuries to law enforcement or to the public. we obviously became deeply concerned after the suspect was able to steal a weapon. he was apprehended this morning with no shots fired. i want to say thank you to the dedicated law enforcement professionals from every level who each and every day go out of their homes, leave their families, leave their loved ones to keep us safe.

the public over the last 13 days has had a chance to see what excellence in law enforcement means, what true dedicated professionalism is all about. i couldn't be more proud to be standing up here today with these professionals from every level. while they did extraordinary work, we had a tremendous assist from the public here in chester county. i want to say thank you to the public for their vigilance. thank you for the constructive tips that they shared. thank you for remaining on guard. we recognize this has been a concerning and trying time for each and every one of you in the region. we want to thank you for your support of law enforcement and for your support of this effort that led to this capture today. i hope the good people of pennsylvania and indeed the folks all across this nation got a chance to see how government

is supposed to work, how law enforcement is supposed to work where we all come together, where we focus on the mission, and while the women and men up here behind me may wear different uniforms and different badges, we were here with common purpose, and that was to apprehend this suspect and keep people safe. leading this effort has been the pennsylvania state police, and i know i'm going to get booed by some of the folks behind me for saying this, i believe they are the finest law enforcement agency in the united states of america, and i could not be more proud to be the governor of this commonwealth and to have the chance to serve in public service alongside these great leaders in the pennsylvania state police. leading the effort for us is colonel christopher parish, who did yeoman's work overseeing this operation together with lieutenant colonel bivens, all pennsylvanians, gentlemen, are indebted to you for your

bravery, your courage, and for your tremendous leadership. and with that it's my honor to bring up the colonel of the pennsylvania state police, colonel christopher paris. >> thank you, governor, i would like to make a few brief comments. i'd like to dedicate those comments to the victims of cavalcante and their families. at the end of the day, all of the people behind me here work for justice and for the victims. a close second to the people of chester county, we appreciate your support, and we appreciate the dedication that you have shown us and the generosity that you have shown us. we are in your debt. this was a major operation. we know that it has affected your lives and we're very much appreciative of that support. i'd like to thank the governor and his support of us not only with his physical presence but his work in harrisburg on a daily basis.