by i applaud, them i would hope that all of us, as americans, stand with the uaw in their struggle. >> we will be monitoring that announcement tonight. we'll see what happens tomorrow. when you'll be joining sean fain there. senator bernie sanders, thank you very, much i appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> i decide a fastening discussion with -- alex press, unpacking all of the labor action of the summer. a phenomenal reporter who's been covering it. you can scan that q r code, listen wherever you get your podcast. that is all in on this thursday night, alex wagner tonight starts right now, good, evening. alex >> thanks, chris. fascinating to talk about, labor as it intersects with a lot of other priorities, i guess we'll call them. in american society. i will check out the podcast. thanks to at-home for joining me this evening. we are finally getting a picture of how the racketeering and conspiracy case against donald trump and 18 other codefendants, we're finally getting a picture as to how that might play out in court in fulton county, georgia. boy oh boy, is it a complicated

picture. as you may know, two of trump's codefendants in all of this, sydney powell and kenneth chesebro, lawyers, they each asked for their trials to go forward next month, on october 23rd. ahead of everybody else's trials. today, judge scott mcafee, officially separated miss powell in mr. chesebro's trials from the rest of the people charged in this case. judge mcafee wrote in his order, separating these trials is a procedural and logistical inevitability. and that additional divisions of the 17 defendants may well be required. so, we may get to see this case broken up into even more smaller groups of cases. which sounds easy, it sounds reasonable, it also happens to be on believably come polluted. it is literally the most head spinning version of trial tetris you have ever seen. here are the 19 defendants in this case. as i mentioned before, kenneth

chesebro, sydney powell, will now officially be tried together. and separately, for everyone else. as for the other 17, donald trump, john eastman, jeffrey clark, fake electors sean still, david schaffer, and voter fraud conspiracy, robert chilly. they want their cases split off from everybody who wants a speedy trial. so, far is just kenneth chesebro and sidney powell. rudy giuliani, meanwhile, doesn't want to be tried alongside chesebro and powell. and it looks like he's gonna get his wish. former chief of staff, mark meadows, wants to be tried all by himself. in federal court. unless his appeal goes his way, that is not going to happen. right, now it doesn't look like it will. mr. scott hall wants to be tried separately from all the defendants who were not accused of crimes related to the alleged voting machine breach in coffee county. harrison floyd wants to be tried only with the other people accused of harassing elections worker, ruby freeman. two of the remaining three

codefendants have not yet filed any motions to sever their cases. but race, mitt a former lawyer for the trump campaign, as told the court, he thinks the codefendant should all be tried in, quote, manageable groups, whatever that means. it is like the seating arrangement from hell. only the stakes are, of course, astronomically higher. for now, what we can say, for sure, kenneth chesebro and sidney powell looked like they will be the first coconspirators in this case to face justice in a courtroom. the judge said today, he expects the jury in this case to be selected by november 3rd. which means lawyers could start presenting arguments to that jury, well before the end of 2023. we are getting a look at what that might be lake as well. today, lawyers for miss powell and mr. chesebro are in court, arguing about what kind of evidence they will be allowed to use in this case. and there was a lot of disagreement. so much so, at one point, the

judge had to admonish chesebro's attorney, after accused the prosecution of defaming the defense. >> so, the fact that she got up here, and allied, lied to the court, -- >> mr. grubbiness, not go down to that road. >> i said it's over. i was to stop or from defending my co-counsel. >> multiply all of that, that kind of tense exchange, multiply it times 17 defendants. all at once. in the same courtroom. you have a window into how untenable a trial for the 17 remaining defendants happens to be. it is not tenable. but we are not sure exactly what happens next. what we do know, two of the 19 codefendants are going to trial on october 23rd. according to the prosecution, it is going to take four months to try that case. trump himself still does not have a court date. the judge has set a hard and

fast deadline of december 1st for the 17 other defendants, including donald trump. to submit any pretrial motions. judge mcafee has made very clear, he is not going to slow walk this case. he does not appear ready to let donald trump push this case into the distant future. which means, 2024 is going to be a very, very busy year. buckle up. joining me now, neal katyal, former acting solicitor general for the obama administration. and kristy greenberg, a former federal prosecutor and former deputy chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york. neil, kristie, thank you for being here tonight. kristie, it seems inevitable that the 17 others are going to be divided up. as we just pointed out through the extensive and, may i say, sophisticated graphics department here at this program, dividing up those 17 is tetris from hell. i mean, how do you think the judge is going to begin to go about it?

what are the priorities, in terms of determining these next groups? >> so, when i've prosecuted large cases, having 20 to 30 people in the case, usually, the judge will ask for some input about the groupings of defendants. say, if the evidence is all belated to the coffee county scheme for example, would it make sense to try all of those defendants together? so that you're getting an overlap in the counts and the evidence that the jurors are going to be hearing. same for the other schemes. you've got very discrete schemes, even though it's all one big r.i.c.o. conspiracy. so, the prosecutors are probably going to go to provide that input, about what makes sense. the judge also signaled, he wants to hear the pretrial motions are. what kind of defense for these different event it's going to raise. and maybe, depending on those defenses, that could affect the groupings as well. >> neal, throughout this process. the prosecution has said, we want to keep our going together. no matter who the defendant is, we're gonna have the same witnesses and call the same evidence. is that a bluff?

but if that's true, that's four months per trial. which could take us into, oh, i don't know, 2025. 2026. depending on how many groups there are. >> yeah, i don't think it was a bluff, alex. i think the prosecutor here, fani willis, genuinely wanted to have a prosecution of all 19 at once. but i don't think it was realistic. and, you know, christy is a really experienced federal prosecutor. so, i'm gonna defer to her on this. i thought it was not something that was at all likely to be granted. today is the decision to sever the two, chesebro and powell, from the remaining 17, i felt was quite predictable. now, the big question that you're asking christy, okay, what's gonna look like now? to me, the million dollar question, obviously, of these people, all 19 are important. when is the trial of donald trump. we've been waiting years and years for this. it's now, we know it's not

gonna be october. is it going to be right after this trial? are we gonna have to wait even longer. here's what i hope the judge in the prosecution really do respond to these defense delay tactics, that trump is known for. and make sure that this trial progresses. >> given, kristy, how explicit donald trump's. been the cornerstone of his defense is pushing this into the future as long as possible. how much does the judge take that into consideration? as it tries to figure out, okay, is donald trump in a group with other people? is donald trump himself? how do you figure the trump of it all, if you're a judge? >> so, i think the judge also has to be mindful of the calendar. there is the march 4th trial in d.c., and i think that is going to stick. judge chutkan means business. i don't see here moving that unless there is a very compelling reason to do so. you also have the manhattan d.a. case in late march, which i think that will get moved. but then you have the make ossify documents case. i think the two federal cases

here really would take precedence. so, i can see if there are groupings that donald trump may be looking at spring, he may be looking at fall of 2024. depending on how this all plays out. if she, if the judge is gonna be more deferential to these other trials, that are already on the calendar. >> well, i mean, it would seem like the judges are going to talk to each other at some point. >> yes, absolutely. judge chutkan already said that she did. at that she was in touch with george merchan. about the fact that her trial may spill into his. we have to figure these judges are talking, a try to figure out the schedule. >> when you just said the fall of 2024, i don't if you could see my eyeballs pop like an inch out of my head. that's obviously the -- the penultimate months leading to a november presidential election. if trump is, indeed, the republican nominee. is there any acquiescence to the reality that this person is, theoretically going to be in the throes of a presidential campaign, when scheduling something like that so close to

an election? >> no, it's true. look, i think the realities of this are going to be considered. even if they're not explicitly stated by the judges. they're going to be thinking of that in the back of their minds. if you're looking at at least four months, the judge said eight months for these trials. that will take you at least for the next group to look at sometime in the spring. and the next group, potentially, sometime in the fall. you think a number of these defenses fall out, because they take please. some of the may cooperate. you're probably looking at about maybe, depending on how many you have left, about two additional trials to schedule. if he's not looking to set up a ton of delays, that schedule may make sense. >> neal, there's also the question of the jury. how many jurors are going to ultimately need from fulton county here if you're having multiple trials? does that process concern you, given how difficult, i mean, even in the grand jury's indictment here, there was one grand juror who consistently voted in favor of donald trump. and the sort of stakes for jury

selection, and all of this, is going to be outrageously high. given the fact that you might have to have multiple jury pools. how is that gonna work? >> yeah, so, jury selection is, you're absolutely right to put your finger on it, an issue. i don't think it's an insurmountable issue. even if you're going to have four or five trials. even though this is a very hot button case that everyone knows about, we face this in the george floyd murder, which i was special prosecutor. the first thing that happens, what we call -- you question all the prospect of jurors for bias. you can first question, alex, in a group setting. and then on an individual one. even in something at which people feel really passionately about, it's not that hard to get 12 people who want to do the right thing, say they're gonna listen to the evidence, with an open mind, and not make up their mind before they hear the evidence. so, i certainly think that's possible in fulton county. i don't think it's going to take months and months for each jury to be impaled. i can imagine it's something

very much like what we saw in minnesota. it takes a couple of weeks to empanel a jury. you know, the stakes on the other side, if you get that wrong, if a juror is seated who's got bias, it's obviously catastrophic. it's worth that investment of time. >> yeah, the other piece is the judges, right, neil? judge mcafee suggested that other judges were willing and ready to answer the call to go to trial with some of these cases. i mean, how practically would that work? there's a lot of business that the fulton county court has to take up that has nothing to do with donald trump or attempts to co-opt the 2020 election? >> right, you've got that problem. you also have the problem that, simultaneous trials on the same issues might itself create some legal problems. any of those defendants could say, hey, you know, i couldn't monitor was going on the other trial. because i had my own trial. but it turns, out the evidence in that trial was inconsistent, or things like that.

multiple simultaneous overlapping trials, unless they are really discreet like the fake electors, just break off that one piece and nothing else. just break off the pressure of raffensperger, maybe it's possible, i don't know. i think it's pretty tough. i think it's more likely than not they will have the same judge decide these cases one after the other. and in trials, one after the other. >> that's an unenviable position, in my humble opinion, kristy. i wonder if there's a way to expedite some of this. mark meadows is trying to get this case removed. he's in the appeals process to get it moved into federal court. the assumption is, whatever happens to meadows on that count, it's gonna be applicable to anybody else who wants to have their case removed, right? does the same thing hold true for, example, sydney powell and ken chesebro, one axis, they want access to the grand jury investigation itself. if they are granted access, does that mean every else in the case is granted access? >> yeah, so, the judge said there, where there are trial

witnesses, individuals of the prosecution has said, we are going to make these witnesses testify a trial, the defense would be entitled to their testimony before the special grand jury. that makes sense. that would be information that they would be entitled to. what did they previously say? do i want to impeach you, and try to confront with any of those statements? if they're inconsistencies. they would be entitled to that information. the question, is how much she has said that she's got up to 150 witnesses for a trial. >> fani willis. >> fani willis. the special grand jury report, there were 75, according to that witness. that was before the special grand jury. so, is there an overlap? are they the same? so, i'm not sure how much of an argument there is really going to be, i think we have to see who she's actually looking to call. but it does stand to reason, whatever rulings remain on that issue, presumably, the other defendants are going to have as well, it would hold for those other defendants to. >> otherwise, will never be done with this. just really, is this unusually

nightmarish seeming to you? it seems incredibly thorny to me. >> not necessarily, these cases we have multi defended cases, that are 20, 30, 40 defendants. they are for a lot to manage. so, scheduling, again, usually don't end up with that many defendants towards the end. i do we get to see that eight terabytes of discovery. one terabyte of discovery is alone just a ton of evidence. i think it's like 6 million or so documents. i think this is a lot of material she's producing. once they start to see just how much she has from over two and a half years of an investigation, you're going to start seeing people plead out. >> how many terabytes does it take to secure a plea deal? that's the question. neil katyal, kristy greenberg, thanks so much for your time tonight. we have a lot more to get to, accusing the adult son of the sitting president of corruption

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representatives, motion to vacate is a vote to remove the speaker. and in this house, it is an act that has been hanging over speaker kevin mccarthy

not even ordering the impeachment inquiry into president biden. but so far, there is no exit from this -- even especially as critical funding bills get held up, and the government inches closer to a potential shutdown, based on the current schedule there are non-legislative days left of what the outcome. joining me now is -- she leads the progressive caucus and the house. congressman jayapal, thank you so much for being here. is it a foregone conclusion that we're gonna have a government shutdown. how in your mind is that a void at this point? >> alex, it's great to see you. and look, i think that this is a real challenge that is before us because this republican majority, the speaker has turned his gavel over to the extreme right wing of his party who are making demands that are absolutely unattainable. so they have not been able to pass 11 of the 12 spending

appropriations bills that are just the basic test of governing. instead, kevin mccarthy is trying to keep his speakership by dangling this shiny object of impeachment on joe biden absolutely baseless and absurd impeachment of joe biden, before the caucus. try to keep that. and then at the same time, just direct from the work that needs to be done. so i think what we need to do is look to the senate, because antisemitism, a court -controlled senate has worked with republicans to pass all of their appropriations spending bills with bipartisan significant bipartisan majorities. they can take those bills, and sent him over to the house. they can take a clean, continuing resolution to give us a little bit more time, because at the end of the day, speaker mccarthy is going to have to decide if he wants to be the speaker or if he is just, essentially, handing the gavel over to marjorie taylor greene. and one more thing, alex.

let's be clear. they can't pass their own appreciations bills because they are trying to pass a nationwide abortion ban. they are trying to completely eliminate public education. they are trying to make sure that the wealthiest tax cheats don't have to pay taxes. those are the things they're trying to pass in these appropriations bills. as publisher rioters, it's not going to fly. >> help me understand the democratic calculus here, though. if kevin mccarthy were to cross the aisle to get anything done and i'm a portal's infection, bishop drove an out and to his coffin as speaker. and i guess my question to you, is it worth it? is whoever replaces kevin mccarthy better than kevin mccarthy? or is the devil you know better than the devil you don't know? >> i mean, look. they are just showing that republicans can't govern. and whether it is kevin mccarthy or the next speaker, unless the recognize there are just one of three chambers that are needed to pass bills, and they have to work and i bipartisan fashion, we are

going to be in republican chaos, republican shut down land until 2024. this is not going to bode well for them for the elections, i think they know this. if they hit a shut down, this is a republican shutdown, and we are careening towards. for democrats, listen. if kevin mccarthy needs us to bail him out, it's going to be extremely difficult without some sort of a power sharing arrangement. and we haven't gotten to the point where we are even talking about this. i don't think he should count on democratic votes to bail him out. i think that republicans have to show the country that they know how to govern. otherwise, they're going to have to deal with the consequences of that. and all of, us the american people, are going to have to deal with the consequences of that. every second. i don't take any joy from, this. alex >> in the meantime, kevin mccarthy is giving away whatever the maga caucus wants, including the impeachment inquiry. it feels like democrats are taking a -- there's more of a concern for logic to push back on the

impeachment boondoggle. is that what's happening behind closed doors? can you give us any insight and the gravity of the democrats feel is in front of him in terms of an impeachment situation, if you will? >> well, i think that the gravity is because it is baseless and absurd. i don't think that we, i mean, listen. i've been through an impeachment inquiry, as you know. i sit on the judiciary committee. our impeachment inquiries of donald trump restarted into situations that or theory serious. one, where he was essentially trying to hold zelenskyy hostage in order to get military aid for the united states. and the second, he incited an insurrection. there is nothing in the republican investigations that they have been taking on for over a year into president biden. there really is nothing there. and that's part of the problem. so how are we handling it? we're taking it seriously.

we're pushing back on it. we are making the very clear comparison between president biden, where there is no evidence at all, and donald trump, who has now been indicted, as you've covered, many times, on your program of 91 felony counts and that includes grand juries. this is very serious national security and election interference. so we were taking it seriously, but i'm also trying to make sure people understand that this is distracting from the real work. you said in your opening, we've got nine legislative days left. that terrains us to a shut down if they don't start doing their work. >> nine days, mark it on your calendar and see what happens next. congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you so much for your time, as always, great to see you. we >> cry to see you, alex. >> we have lots more in store this evening. what to do when you are president biden and you are looking at a possible strike by autoworkers, that could also threaten your climate agenda.

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leaving his job at the white house, where he was a senior

adviser to the president, donald trump's son-in-law jared kushner's brand-new private equity firms scored a two billion dollar investment from saudi arabia's sovereign wealth fund. according to documents obtained by the new york times, before making that massive investment, the saudi sovereign wealth fund had a panel of experts screen jared kushner's proposed deal and they did not like it at all. in fact, they called it unsatisfactory and all aspects. the panel objected to what they called the inexperience of the funds management and the possibility that the kingdom will be responsible for the bulk of the investment and risk. the panel voted unanimously against agree to the deal. so pretty clear, right? not gonna happen, sorry mr. kushner, this just isn't the right fit for us. not so fast. because this, literally fund itself, led by saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman, also known as mbs, the fund overrode its own advisory panel. they went ahead against the

unanimous advice of their own experts and invested with jared kushner. so that is shady on its own. but where it gets really bad is when you look back at the things that kushner did while he was inside the white house, things that saudi arabia and mbs and particular seem to really, really appreciate. for really early on and the administration, march to 17, kushner helped arrange a white house visit for mbs that treated the crown prince if he was the head of state, while before he actually was. he was a significant breach of diplomatic protocol, and it wasn't even protium the and turn struggle about who would be saudi arabia's next leader. than in may of that year, trump made the unprecedented decision to make saudi arabia the set of his first foreign trip as president. remember this video? they are all worried late touching that strange glowing oral. in his memory, kushner claims that trip was his idea and that

he had to fight secretary of state rex tillerson over it, which we know, in retrospect made sense. that's a much, kushner helped negotiate a 110 billion dollar weapons deal to saudi arabia. then in october, he took an unannounced trip to saudi arabia. he reportedly stayed up until nearly four i am with the current prince on multiple nights, swapping stories and planning some sort of trilogy. the paris next week, the crown prince of that running up hundreds of saudi arabia's most powerful people, including his own direct competitors for the throne. and they were held, some of them, for years as prisoners in the riyadh ritz-carlton. now as nice as being trapped in a rights might sound as first, associates of many of those detained at the roadside that were subjected to torture during their hotel imprisonment. but that does not appear to have changed mr. kushner's view of the crown prince.

no. none of course there with the brutal murder of washington post columnist jamal khashoggi. well after the cia concluded that mbs had personally ordered khashoggi killed, well after that became a global disaster for the crown prince, who was trying to make an him for himself on the world stage. after that, and after the crown prince's rights carlson purge, jared kushner was still defending him. saying things like, yes, the crown prince met a few missteps, but he is a good ally. no i wanted to stick a pin and that incredibly sketchy two billion dollar deal by former presidents trump's adult son-in-law, jared kushner. who was actually an official and trump administration, influencing publicly directly. i wanted to stick a pin in that before getting into the new charges filed today against president biden adult son, who has never been a government official of any time. hunter biden.

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not be the last. the special counsel overseeing this case, a trump appointee named david weiss, is considerate bringing additional tax charges against hunter biden. we are just not sure when. from the beginning of, this hunter biden admit that he paid his taxes light and he was expected to plead guilty. but the dunn charge is a whole different story. that charge was supposed to be dropped as part of a deal by biden's lawyers rage with government prosecutors that seem to be impacted the republicans in congress and ultimately apparent to fall apart and courts. now even the congressional republicans have been pushing for hunter biden to be indicted, today's charges are far from certifying them. and this is why. >> that's one of about a dozen crimes that hunter biden's committed. and ironically, that's the one crime that he committed that you cannot tie joe biden to. >> joining me now is former u.s. senator and msnbc

political analyst, claire mccaskill, great to set you. both as a former senator and a lawyer. i'm trying to understand what the point of this indictment is, given the rarity of prosecutors seeking a federal indictments for these kinds of gun violations, especially when there is no serious crime involved. democrats, obviously, i hate it. republicans are unsatisfied with it. is this merrick garland's doj trying to make a point? what do you think it is? >> i don't think merrick garland is making the calls here. i think business all the special counsel who is deciding. i think the special counsel has been to the pressure that was put on him around the plea deal he had agreed to. and by the why, the irony of this is this, these charges. in my state feet republicans don't think the federal government should have any say when you buy a gun. they passed laws saying we should ignore all federal gun laws. so in missouri, they think that hunter biden didn't do anything

-- and that's really true across this country. there is an irony that it is a witch hunt. this case will be decided in court, as it should be. there might be other cases that will be decided in court, as they should be. but alex, here is one thing we can't escape. donald trump made money of being president of the united states. donald trump's kids all made money of being president of the united states. hunter biden appears to have made money because his father was vice president. they all did it. it's not illegal. and even hunter biden's own partner said joe biden did nothing other than say some halos and acknowledge peoples existence. that was never involved in this. and that's why this is so bad. because the white house has to fight back on this. they can't ignore it. >> i don't know if you saw, you probably did not, because i'm

sure you would during other things. but right before the segment, we had a long explanation about the incredibly unsavory things that were happening with jared kushner and mohammad bin salman that may have all ended and a two billion dollar investment for the saudi sovereign wealth fund to jared kushner's private equity company. they asymmetry of this apparent corruption there, with someone who was addicted to drugs owning, by his lawyers at a station, and unloaded gun for 11 days. i mean, the asymmetry is mind-boggling. it is staggering. i also wonder, clare, whether the more joe biden has to talk about his son who is an addict, made a bad decision on a gun charge, in a way it reminds people of the tragedy and the darkness that joe biden has had to live with.

that his family has been through. i'm not sure it does what republicans think it's going to do in terms of character assassination. >> i think you're right. i think it would be helpful if the president would acknowledge that his son did things that were not and good judgment. and that were inappropriate. but that he loves him. i think it's important to remember too, how potentially joe biden was afraid for his son in terms of him losing his life. as you know, fagan was thrown away by somebody who cared about hunter biden because she was afraid he was going to kill himself with it. so clearly there is some deeply personal, deeply difficult tragedies around hunter biden and around all of joe biden's children eyeball. of him have passed away, with the exception of hunter biden. that doesn't excuse hunter biden's conduct. but it explains, maybe, why the president is so reluctant to

say what i think a lot of americans want him to say. which, is not love my son, i will always love my son. but he showed really poor judgment and the way he tried to use my position to leverage his own personal money. >> yeah, i absolutely agree with you on that. the tragedy that is inherent and all of this, the amount of disappointment that the father must failed with his son's prorated like this and his sons, flick of a better word, or on full display and the media is really drenching. do you think this has the intended effect, as far as republicans are concerned, of creating a false equivalency between missteps on the part of the bidens and the 91 felony counts and the indictment of donald trump? does that change opinions in terms of independents and moderates? >> i'll tell you what. i'm old enough to remember -- and i remember everybody saying, oh it is so ridiculous.

it was a war hero. yes, he disagreed with the war but nobody's gonna believe. that in her emails. for months on end, they were just ignore. this issue was just ignored. and it took root. and i actually believe this has taken root now. that they are successfully muddying the waters with a lot of americans, who aren't paying close attention, and saying, well, you know, yes, i'm sure he knew what his son was stolen. or i'm sure he knew his son was benefiting. there is, you are seeing some of that in the polling. so that's why i'm saying, they cannot assume that this is going to go the way they want it to go. they need to stand up tall and be definitive about why he was using a pseudonym email, why hunter was copying on that email, be willing to talk about the fact that he absolutely made no money off anything hunter was doing. i think they need to take it more seriously, because they

are. it's not fair, it's not right. but it's real. that people are beginning to feel there must be something more here. it's like boxing shadows. unfortunately, i think the president has to box them. >> claire mccaskill, offering some important advice to the biden administration and biden campaign. thank you my friend and some news. clare has teamed up with jane palmieri to host msnbc's newest political podcast. how to win in 2024. it is out now. you can scan the qr code to get it wherever you listen to podcasts. double trouble, i love appearing. get it. now we have one more story for tonight. detroit's big three automakers could strike as soon as tonight. we'll get into the threats it poses to the political, political alliances, and even the presidents claim agenda. we'll have more on that after the break. stay with us. eak. stay with us but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide.

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least unofficially, but the summer of strike decidedly is. not united auto workers union, the uaw, represent nearly 150,000 people is poised to lodge the court and strike at midnight tonight. after contract talks have stalled with the big three automakers, general motors, ford, and stellantis, which owns chrysler. according to abc news, it would be the first time in the unions 80 plus year history that it's struck 03 companies at the same time. this kind of strike would be diligent for any president, but it is a particular challenge for joe biden. he is frequently proclaimed himself the most pro-union president in american history. biden has also made electric vehicles a cornerstone of his climate agenda. and automakers want to use non union factories to make batteries for their work hours. and that is a major sticking point and is contract negotiations, and it is also a major issue for president biden. joining us now to discuss is --

former campaign manager and senior adviser to bernie sanders, as well as the founder of a more perfect union. great to see you. literally nobody else at rather told you about this. and i wonder if you think this is a tension the president needs to result publicly and privately between the clean energy agenda and organize, unionized labor. >> let's take those interest. good to see you. let's talk about clint envy for a second. ev jobs. you and i or supporters of ev jobs. i would venture to say a lot of people watching this show, you and i would agree, when we hurt the words av, electric vehicle jobs, we think these things. clean energy, jobs for the future, climate friendly, science our intent. what i will positive to you is that all those are all true. but don trump and some of the right note that many workers, when they hear a v, they also hear more spay, howard or and fewer jobs, and so i think when you wrestle with this, what

we're fighting for is that those jobs are the future. these clean energy jobs are good paying, middle class jobs. that is not the case. a lot of these jobs, your pay 16, 17, $18 an hour is a tamp or core to them. so if these are the jobs of the future, the fight, make sure they have good jobs. make sure they are like the jobs of all. what if you work in the big three auto plants, you were given 32, 33, $34 per hour. why can't a ev job be similar, and -- let's save an industry and save workers who will be the future of this industry. >> and it is pretty clear that we know, anecdotally, about the issue that liberals, democrats, blue states have what it comes to quarterly union votes or, what color and to some degree blue collar votes. union liberal is no exception to that, right? look at the numbers. 2020 exit polls.

56% of voters in union households nationwide backed by about 40% back donald trump. and the uaw estimates that one third of its members voted for trump in 2020 and 2016. this is a big concern and i think it's more than just this particular negotiation. it's about the sort of narrative that democrats present to organized labor. and how much of that hinges on what happens right now. >> we are going to own, you and i would agree, this is a hard challenge for the president. it's not easy. but i think you make here, your name, in hard moments. and this is our moment. when workers go on strike, it's one of those clear effect moments. who's side are you on? so you're saying, you're going to take errors there, the corporate property and it will tell you, the economy is going to be terrible, everything is going to go to hell, it's all because of these workers. and what their assumption there is that we can't go higher than

this number. they have got 21 billion dollars and profits just in the last six months alone. they can't move beyond a 15% pay raise? really? we know you can. but as a public choice, you can give not billion dollars of stock to buy bags or shareholder dividends. that's not a problem for you. tell me you can't go above 50% increase for workers? i think you can. i think you can outpace inflation. i is a matter of choice. for the president, it is leaning into making the workers out of the argument. saying, these are what thereafter. you just want a decent middle class left out, which you can't before, you are not broke, you are not poor. that's how we get this economy right for a lot of workers feeling this pain, and if you look at paul, and people are on the side of the argument, that no corporate america has largely -- for the rest of the bottom, particularly for autoworkers who during 2008, 2009 or two mexico vices. so here we are a decade later, you can't tell me you have

enough profits to make sure they're holden solid, middle class jobs? of course you can't. let's get it done. >> the profit, the corporate profits -- if you look at what the ceos of the big three automakers made last year. fort ceo, $21 million. stellantis ceo, 24 point $8 million. gm ceo, $29 million. this is the story of american inequality right here. being burnouts. >> in the last four years, that increase has gone up 40% for those ceos. the same number they are asking for workers. it's not fair. let's have an honest conversation. don't be wrapped into a fearmongering debate about healthy sky is going to full and because workers are asking for something unreasonable. they are not. but it is these moments were, no pain no gain? right? if you go on strike, yes there might be some short term pain. but we are owning that there is going to be a long term gain. what are you shooting for? eight and three standup workers

can benefit and an economy in which billionaire companies are making incredible profits. >> yeah. >> we have got to share that. sure that in a way that makes the workers who deliver those profits, deliver the proclivity, feel of the very honored with a decent lifestyle. >> keep your eyes on the clock. it could happen as soon as tonight. faiz shakir, my brilliant friend, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, alex. >> that is our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word with lawrence bittle. good evening, lawrence? >> good evening alex. we have -- our guest ready to go. but there is so much legal news this week. tomorrow night, for tonight, here at the last, we're going to try, if the news stays stable enough tomorrow to kind of sum up where we are, legally, in all of these trump cases. all of these prosecutions of donald trump. every night here, we are just kind of taking, here is what happ t