brain electrical activity that is consistent with the types of things we all have when we're fully conscious. >> what does your study show about what happens to the brain after the heart stops. >> after the heart stops, the brain does not die, it hibernates and shows the ability to recover an hour long afterwards. >> reporter: parnia and hackett are working on a book. hoping it will make us think gl if you talk about how you're going to die or what's going to happen when you die, it frames how you are going to live, and what could be more impactful. >> reporter: as science tries to unlock the mystery of death. anne thompson, nbc news. >> we have a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports." let's get right to it. at this hour, the historic

strike, pitting thousands of auto workers against detroit's big three. where the negotiations stand now, and is there any road to a deal before a multibillion dollar hit to the economy. trying to keep the lights on in washington, we'll dig into the laundry list of demands from the house of representatives from spending cuts to a border wall in exchange for averting a government shutdown. the desperation in libya as the death toll from those catastrophic floods soars above 11,000. one mayor is warning a fifth of his city's entire population may have died. and the lawyer for hunter biden defiant after those felony gun charges. why he says this entire case will be thrown out. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments, and we begin with that unprecedented strike. thousands of auto workers walking off the job in three states. nbc's shaquille brewster joins me on the phone from a picket

line. we heard president biden with an encouraging message for workers. record corporate profits should mean record union contracts. what's the mood on the line? >> reporter: hi there, chris. i can almost guarantee that the lot of workers did not hear the president's message. they have been out here picketing and chanting. the words you're saying when you talk to them almost mirror what you heard from the president. a lot of this is about respect. they're fighting for higher wages. the 40% include over a four-year period, better retirement, work/life balance. the bottom line is they feel their wages aren't keeping up, not just with the rest of americans but the ceos of auto makers. i want you to listen to conversations i have been having about what their priorities are and sacrifice they are willing to make to get narrow demands met. >> i'm willing to strike as long as we have to, to get what we

want, and what we deserve. >> and i have been telling these guys for a long haul, i'm sure, be prepared. i'm hoping that. but be prepared for a long haul. >> it's a little scary because we don't know how long this is going to last, but we trust our union. we're willing to do what we have to do to get the job done. >> reporter: and, look, chris, it's scary because strikes are hard. people have to sacrifice a lot. these workers are getting $500 a week for, you know, no matter how many kids they have, no matter how many bills they have to pay, so they're ready for that sacrifice. meanwhile, when you listen to the auto makers, they're saying simply the demands that the union have been requesting and have been making, they can't meet. they say that the pay increase and the cost of labor would not be sustainable if they met the demands, all of the demands that the union has been making. we know that there are no negotiations today for the first day of strike action. we expect negotiations to go

back and resume this weekend. that means the strike will go into the weekend, and it's more pain and more workers who are off the job and out on the picket line here in toledo, and other places. two other plants across the country, chris. >> shaq brewster, thank you for that update. on capitol hill, members of the house are heading home today without a deal to avert a government shutdown. nbc's ali vitali is on the hill for us. any signs that this can get done before the month's deadline? >> reporter: those who are optimistic are looking for those signs, chris, but right now, we don't have any of them in front of us. the way that house republicans left town was without a plan on how to move forward and a lot of consternation about where this process stands right now. there's frustration on the part of leadership, who literally, we heard from kevin mccarthy behind closed doors saying that if this idea of ousting him from his job is something that his members

want to move on, they should just do that sooner rather than later. he would like to move on with the business of governing. we also know there is deep frustration and anger on the part of the more conservative members of this conference, the house freedom caucus, and that's not to say that they're the only ones who have concerns about spending. they might be the only ones willing to shut the government down over it. here's what other key republicans. members of the five families that represent various factions of the gop conference had to say before leaving town. watch. >> contrary to popular belief. it's a lot more than the house freedom caucus that are concerned about the direction of spending in this country. >> shutdowns are stupid. shutdowns don't serve the interest of this country. we need to do everything we can in a responsible way to avoid a shutdown. overwhelmingly, members are committed to that. >> reporter: of course, chris, you know the name of the numbers game on the hill isn't overwhelming support, it's the exact number of votes that you need to actually pass either a spending bill or rather a continuing resolution.

we know that those votes don't exist for either option right now, which is why you're watching republicans stand at a stalemate, as much as this is the house republican conference we're focusing on, they got a little bit of a boost and bolster from senate republicans who pressed pause on a funding mechanism that would have funded various parts of the government, including the military, so they could have more leverage to ratchet down spending overall in these budget negotiations. >> it's going to be a long several weeks. thank you so much. let's go to libya because the death toll has surpassed 11,000 after flash floods swept away entire neighborhoods. nbc's josh lederman is following that story for us. on top of those killed, thousands remain missing, what's the latest you can tell us from there? >> reporter: yeah, some 10,000 or so remain missing, chris, and if you think about it, it has been five days now, since that

flooding hit libya. it is not looking good for those who are missing right now. the good news is water and electricity are starting to be restored to derna, the hardest hit area. that will certainly help with the recovery effort. in the meantime, chris, a new controversy has erupted over what to do with the bodies that are strewn around derna by the thousands. a lot of those locals, they are distraught by the sight of those bodies. one witness recalled counting 200 bodies just on the beach. they are starting to bury those bodies in mass graves. sometimes a couple hundred people in one grave. they are starting to cremate them. we heard from a remarkable statement in the world health organization and the red crescent and red cross saying stop it, do not do that. it is culturally insensitive, unnecessary, it could make identification of the bodies much more difficult, and they

say this is a misunderstanding. when people die from a disaster like this, unless they die from an infectious disease, they are not the kind of health risk to the public that people are concerned that they might be. and so the red cross, the u.n.'s health agency is saying, please, local local authorities to deal with the bodies of those who are deceased in derna and the other areas, even if those local authorities are strapped for resources right now. >> what a horrifying situation, josh lederman, thank you for that. hunter biden's attorneys says he thinks the felony gun charges against the president's son will be dismissed before they get to trial. tom winter is following all of this. what else did abbe lowell have to say? >> reporter: keying in on a question from yesterday afternoon, the idea that the conduct tied to the three gun charges, and it's really one specific incident where three charges are coming off of in

something that previously hunter biden pleaded not guilty to, once the plea deal and diversion collapsed. this all stems from this one particular incident, but that it was known about almost exactly five years ago, and that's something he addressed at our competitor. gma this morning. >> what's odd about this is the fact that this happened in 2018, law enforcement showed up, no charges. the u.s. attorney's office has known about this for years, no charges. when they found out about it and made a deal, it was for a diverted agreement, what changed? not the facts, not the law but all the politics that have now come into play. >> lowell's side of it, of course, is that this has somehow been changed because of what's come out either in congress, congressional pressure or pressure on weiss. we have asked the question as to what has taken so long or what could have taken so long on this, and of course we can't ignore the backdrop of a broader investigation, which including

an investigation nearly six years in length involving the president's son's taxes and whether or not we'll see charges on that, chris, remains an open question. >> tom winter, thank you so much. and still ahead, nbc's interview with former president trump. did he give prosecutors in his criminal case more evidence against him? we're back in 60 seconds. e against him? we're back in 60 seconds downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. [sneeze] (♪♪) astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! first subway refreshed their ingredients then they created the perfect menu of subs. the subway series. and now, they're slicing their meats fresh. wow, subway works almost as hard as i do. we'll talk about your ego later.

have fun, sis! ♪♪ can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. some very specific grievances are being aired by president trump in two new interviews. that willingness to wade publicly into specifics about the allegations against him is raising questions about whether he's doing himself real legal harm. example one is from a new interview with kristen welker from "meet the press." trump denies he tried to get rid of evidence regarding classified documents in florida. >> i want to ask you about the

case related to mar-a-lago. a new charge suggests you asked a staffer to delete security camera footage so it wouldn't get into the hands of investigators. >> it's false. >> would you testify to that under oath. >> i'm going to. >> you'll testify to that under oath? it's a fake charge by this deranged lunatic prosecutor, who lost in the supreme court 9-0, and he tried to destroy lots of lives. he's a lunatic. it's a fake charge. more importantly, the tapes weren't deleted. in other words, there was nothing done to them. they're my tapes. i didn't have to give them the tapes, i don't think. i think i would have won in court. when they asked for the tapes, i said, sure, they're my tapes. i could have fought them. i didn't have to give them. just so you understand, though, we didn't delete anything. nothing was deleted. >> so that's false, the people who testified to that is false. >> number one, statement is false. much more importantly, when the tapes came, and everybody says this, they weren't deleted.

we gave them 100%. >> i want to bring in legal affairs columnist for "politico" and a former federal prosecutor, great to have you back on the show. he doesn't explicitly say he'll answer that question under oath, but then he suggests it doesn't matter anyway because ultimately it wasn't deleted. does that matter legally? >> it does not matter. in fact, if you are an unsuccessful criminal, that is still a crime. i prosecuted, people, for example, that walk up to the bank with a gun and mask, and the bank doors would be locked. they couldn't get inside. it may not surprise you to learn they also were guilty, in that case, of attempted bank robbery. donald trump also talked about the same case with megyn kelly. i want to play that exchange for you. >> the question is simply that your lawyers signed a certification saying they have turned over everything that's response ich and when they

raided mar-a-lago, they found documents that were responsive that had not been produced, marked classified. >> i don't know what timing is. >> that's it. >> i just don't know the timing. all i know is i'm allowed to have the documents. >> once you get a subpoena, you have to turn them over. >> i know this. i don't even know that. i have the right to have those documents, so i don't really know that. >> so this has been trump's consistent defense, right, he had the right to have those documents under the presidential records act, though he just said, he knew once he had a subpoena he had to turn them over, and then he said, no, i don't even know that. what do you make of that exchange, how far might it get him in court, and did he just acknowledge that he was supposed to turn them over? >> it's not going to get him very far in court. i have a prediction for you, chris, he's not going to take the stand and say that in court. i bet his lawyers are not going to let him near the stand at all. the reality for him, by the way,

is i don't expect that interview is going to get played in court either. any of his self-serving statements are not going to be played by the jury, even though they can decide to do so. they can pick and choose the ones that are really bad, use those, but anything that has anything that helps trump, not going to get before the jury unless he takes the stand and testifies himself, and i'm willing to bet a lot he's not willing to do that. >> those are interesting, right, to people who have been following this case very very closely. there's another interview, part of the interview that has, i think, broader interest, and really interesting implications. kristen asked him as well about the possibility of pardoning himself. here's that clip. >> mr. president if you were reelected, would you pardon yourself? >> i could have pardoned myself. i was given an option to pardon myself. i could have pardoned myself when i left. i had a couple of attorneys who

said you can do it if you want. i had some people that said it would look bad if you do it. i think it would look terrible. here's the story. these people are thugs, horrible people, fascists, marxists, sick people. they have been after me since the day i came down the escalator with melania. great economy, great jobs, rebuilt the military. space force, everything, i could go on forever. let me just tell you, i said the last thing i would ever do is give myself a pardon. i could have given myself a pardon. don't ask me what i would do. the last day, i could have had a pardon done that would have saved me all of these lawyers and these fake charges, these biden indictments, they indicted, they want to arrest their political opponents. only third world countries do that, banana republics. ready, i never said this to anybody. i was given the option, i could

have done a pardon of myself, you know what i said, i have no interest of thinking about it. i never even wanted to think about it. i could have done it. and all of these questions you're asking me about the fake charges, you wouldn't be asking me because it's a very powerful thing for a president. i was told by some people that these are sick lunatics that i'm dealing with. give yourself a pardon, your life would be a lot easier. i said i would never give myself a pardon. >> i think it's unlikely. what did i do wrong. i challenged an election, they want to put me in a jail? >> i have questions about kind of three scenarios here. could he preemptively pardon himself, could you preemptively pardon yourself if you were president. if he produced a self-pardon somewhere down the line, do we know if it would be legal, and what if he gets back into office, could he pardon himself at that point, if he was

convicted or in advance so that he didn't even have to go to trial? what do we know? >> okay. big questions, chris, so first of all, no president that has ever tried to pardon himself. we don't know for sure whether or not that's something that the supreme court would ultimately rule is upheld. there are some scholars who think you can't pardon yourself because the very act of the pardon power presumes there's some other person involved. it's certainly possible. he could try to do that, and it's very possible because the pardon power is broad, that it would be upheld. that said, ultimately presidents are not, you know, generally can pardon you for whatever you have done in the past. typically are not pardoning for future crimes, giving you a free pass to commit future crimes. he could have pardoned himself for everything he had done up to that point. depending on how the courts

viewed that issue, and then if he gets reelected, yes, he could try to pardon himself again for everything up until then, and by the way, i suspect that is basically what his strategy is at this point. >> renato, what a fascinating 24 hours it has been. thank you for being on the show, appreciate it. prosecutors are urging the d.c. judge, tanya chutkan not to remove herself from trump's federal election interference case. trump's defense lawyers filed to have her stepped aside earlier this week, arguing that comments she's made suggests she has prejudged his guilt. jack smith's team says those comments which do not name trump specifically are not evidence of bias. trump's defense could escalate the request to the d.c. court of appeals. and in the move that could delay his upcoming new york civil fraud trial, trump has sued the judge in that case, which

accuses him, his family and company of overvaluing their company by billions of dollars. the suit questions the judge's refusal to grant a three-week delay. it also raises questions over whether the scope of the lawsuit is too broad. the appeal court plans to make the decision before the trial is set to begin on october 2nd. republican hopefuls head back to the hawk eye state to try to make headway with voters. the primary is looking more and nor like an uphill battle by anyone not named donald trump. and a one-two punch for president biden, what an impeachment inquiry and hunter biden's indictment could mean for his reelection bid. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. watching reports" only on msnbc complex vs to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. (mom) bringing in a new roommate to save money - is that the plan? (dad) well we gotta find some way to save. so say hi to glen. from work. (glen) hey. that's my mom. (mom) i think i have a much better plan.

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it is a daunting challenge for donald trump's 2024 republican opponents as they head to iowa this weekend. a new analysis from our own steve kornacki finds that the president's supporters are absolutely dug in, unlike anything we've ever seen in past election cycles at this point in the campaign. two recent polls bear this out, about 2/3 of trump supporters say they are firmly or definitely in his corner. let's bring in david, an iowa gop strategist who served as campaign adviser for mitt romney and jeb bush.

you have spent 30 years in the trenches of gop politics. any advice for trump's republican rivals? >> yeah, i mean, look, it's a tough race right now nationally, particularly if you look at the numbers that your colleague steve kornacki has kind of put together an analysis. the campaign is not really happening nationally. it is happening in iowa. it's happening in new hampshire. the national primary numbers really aren't a good reflection of where this race is. now, former president trump does have a significant lead in iowa and new hampshire, however, in iowa in particular, about 72% of caucus goers are open to someone not named trump, and so that's what we're going to see this weekend with the big event coming up at the faith and freedom coalition. this is a group of voters in particular who didn't support donald trump in 2016. they were with ted cruz. they supported him in the general election in '16 and '20. it's a transactional relationship he has with these

voters. this is a group that moves as a unit, very cohesive, and i think all of these candidates are going to make their pitch this weekend. you know, ron desantis, tim scott, vivek, nikki haley, mike pence, they're going to make a hard run at these voters, and usually, this is the coalition that breaks late in the iowa caucuses. we don't know everything we need to know yet going into january 15th. that will take shape before the holidays, and really in that last six weeks in the run up to the caucuses. >> you know what it's like to win and lose in iowa. we have some pictures of the folks who will be there tomorrow. ron desantis, along with vivek ramaswamy, tim scott, nikki haley, mike pence, asa hutchinson, not donald trump. do you think there's an opportunity, through the lens of if someone else wins iowa, then they can make a case that donald trump has a real challenger.

if trump wins, it's over. are you in that camp, and if so, is this the one real opportunity for any of those other folks? >> i think it's the best opportunity for other folks. i don't think it's over if trump wins iowa. the key data point will be the delta between trump and the second place finisher. and then what is the delta between that candidate, and the rest of the field. you have 40 days between iowa and south carolina. that is the longest period of time we've had between kind of the first state out of the gate, and then the last state of the early carveout dates. that's a long time to sort the field out. iowa's job, most of the people that win the iowa caucuses haven't gone on to become the nominee. iowa's job is to get the field narrowed down in a way that you could essentially have a one-on-one race against donald trump going into south carolina, and then on into super tuesday when all of those delegates are available. so the job here is to figure

out, okay, who's got the hot hand, who's got momentum, and now that we're in the most labor day phase, all of these campaigns are under a lot of pressure to perform. i see we had ron desantis announce a bunch of evangelical leaders this week, and i think he's well on his way to find 99 county evangelical chairs, which is kind of a big deal. that's what he'll be messaging this week. there's time for this to happen. you better have your best campaign going right now. hitting on all cylinders and, if someone gets close in iowa, and the rest of the field starts to fall away after new hampshire, and during that 40-day period to south carolina, you could end up with a one-on-one race, which i think is what donald trump fears the most. >> and maybe there's another reason for an opening there. nbc news recently reported that a number of trump allies are surrounding the alarm about his iowa campaign operation. we've all heard about some of his financial problems because so much is going to his legal

troubles, as someone who lives in iowa, knows it better than any other analyst. do you think there is room for trump supporters to be worried there? >> yeah, there is room for people to be worried. he does run a bit as a de facto incumbent. that is an advantage he has. he doesn't have to run the same kind of campaign that the lesser known candidates do. that said, you can tell there's concern among the trump camp. they announced five different trips to iowa in the coming weeks. that's a lot more than he's been doing. he's been doing at a pace of one a month. they're clearly on notice, understanding this is the vulnerability. there's also an opportunity. if he comes off a big win in iowa, it's hard to make a case for someone else. i think there's a risk here. these voters do break late. if you have a candidate who's really getting hot and moving there in that last six-week period and they come close enough to trump, and can dispense with the rest of the field, going into new hampshire, and on into nevada and south

carolina, then he's got real trouble. particularly if that candidate is on their game, is performing well. he maybe even have to resort to a debate against another opponent, which i think to this point, they really haven't considered. >> that's so interesting, no matter how many times i go to the iowa caucuses, it surprises me how busy it is. david. hopefully we'll talk to you a number of times between now and then. the big three auto makers are set to bleed billions in a matter of days as the historic strike revs up. we're going to take a look at the full economic impact. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc i was able to find out more than just a name. and then you add it to the tree. i found ship manifests. birth certificate. wow. look at your dad. i love it so much to know where my father work, where he grew up. it's like you discover a new family member. discover even more at ancestry.com

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we are back with that breaking news. united auto workers promise to go picket until they get what they want, now on strike against all three auto makers at once. here's what uaw member who works at ford's michigan assembly plant as a production team leader told us earlier today about this ongoing strike. >> emotions were high last night. everyone was on guard. we walked peacefully out of the facility. everyone immediately took post at our local, which is directly across the street from our plant. there was excitement. there was adrenaline. it's the beginning of a fight. it's the beginning of a fight that we've been prepping for for

a very long time as uaw members. >> and the stakes go far beyond these workers. one estimate is that a ten-day strike could cost the u.s. economy more than $5 billion. joining me now, democratic congressman dan kilde of michigan. it's been a bit. good to see you congressman. thanks for coming on. >> good to see you. >> we got a statement from the uaw president shawn fain, criticizing the fear tactics like what i just read about the economic impact, and he says we're not going to wreck the economy. the truth is we're going to wreck the billionaire economy. how do you see the stakes here? >> well, i think president fain has it right. there's history here. as you know, chris, i'm from flint, michigan. back in 1936, the workers in flint, michigan, occupied the factories for 44 days. what came of that? of course there were terrible predictions of what that

sit-down strike would do to the u.s. economy back then. what was the result? the result is that we had an unprecedented growth in the middle class. and so what i think president fain and the uaw is trying to do is take this step to rebuild the middle class. there's going to be warnings of dire economic consequences. what i ask people to consider is the long-term consequence of getting those uaw workers, those middle class wages that help not only their families but help us build out the middle class in this country in a way that helps every commune, you know, my own community was shaped by that uaw contract 87 years ago. this negotiation gives us a chance to do the very same thing and, again, to begin to grow the middle class that has been shrinking for far too long. >> so respond to what we heard from the presidents of the big three.

which is it, and i'm going to just, you know, summarize it here. we are already offering them a record amount of money, never in the history of the car industry has there been a percentage increase like what we have on the table. they're also suggesting that if they give the big three -- if they give the uaw what they want, they will go bankrupt. what do you say to that, dan? >> well, i don't think they're ever going to agree to something that would bankrupt the companies. the fact that they are in a position even now to offer unprecedented wage increases is because the companies are experiencing unprecedented profits. we just go back about 14 years, and the auto industry was in crisis. general motors went bankrupt. as a part of that, those workers took dramatic concessions. now that the companies are back on their feet, what the workers i think, are rightfully saying is let's get back to the place

we were at before the industry fell apart. let's get us back in a position where we're getting our fair share. so, yes, it's unprecedented moment, but it's not just the subject of the contract negotiations that's unprecedented, it's the fact that the american people rescued the auto industry. the industry is back on its feet doing quite well, and the question is the productivity of the workers creates tremendous wealth. how is that wealth going to be shared between stockholders, executives and workers, and that's what this negotiation is about. >> president biden, as you know, calls himself the most prounion president in american history. in fact, i was there for his last appearance before election night. it was at a union hall, and just a short time ago, a couple of hours ago, he said this about the negotiations. >> the companies have made some significant offers. i believe they should go further to ensure record corporate profits mean record contracts for the uaw.

i'm going to say that again, record corporate profits, which they have, should be shared by record contracts for the uaw. it's my hope that the parties can return to the negotiation table to forge a win-win agreement. >> so he's echoing what you said, a lot of folks on your side will say he is saying what he needs to say. is he doing what he needs to do? >> well, i think he is. his voice is important. but the u.s. government does not have a seat at the negotiating table. this is a negotiation between the uaw and the big three auto makers. but while we're not at the table, we have a stake in the outcome, and i think that's why the president's voice is so important. it's why i'm trying to add my voice to the conversation. we all have a stake in the outcome because the effect that a really good contract has on the workers and their families is shared with every aspect of a

community that is the beneficiary of that contract. the local grocery benefits, the insurance company down the street benefits, we all benefit. taxpayers benefit. local school districts benefit. everybody can be a winner, and so i think what the president is doing is making the argument that while we have had enormous growth in the economy since he's been president, unprecedented growth, we want to make sure as the growth occurs, everybody is going to get the benefit of the investments we made. for me, because i come from a community centered on the auto industry, that starts with nebs members of the uaw. >> i want to ask you quickly, since we're about two weeks away from a potential government shutdown. we keep hearing that speaker mccarthy's potential path out of this is to make a deal with the democrats. do you think realistically there's some kind of deal to be made here? >> i think there is, but speaker mccarthy needs to realize that the governing majority does not and will never include the

people that he's entered into a power sharing agreement with. marjorie taylor greene, matt gaetz, et cetera. they're not ever going to be part of a governing majority. we can help, kevin knows where to find us. we're ready, willing, and able, but we're not going to do a deal with the most extreme people in the country, and work against the interest of the people we represent. but we're willing. we've demonstrated that before, we did on the debt ceiling deal. if we could just get back to that, i think we'd find a blueprint for moving forward, and i hope kevin remembers that. it's not very long ago we entered into that agreement, he ripped it up just a few days later. >> these are intense times without a doubt, maybe you can release that section behind you. good to see you, thank you. >> good to see you, chris. how president biden's team is pushing back against impeachment while handling hunter biden's indictment.

first, a heartwarming moment that would not have been possible just one year ago. back in may, i spoke to the first openly gay president of the american medical association, dr. jesse aaronfeld about the fda's historic decision to lift restrictions on blood donations for gay men. and he talked about what it means for his family. >> i tell you, chris, my son ethan who turned 4 years old today was born premature, spent 50 days in the neonatal icu, and ended up needing a blood transfusion. as a new dad who's gay who couldn't give blood, i'm grateful he had blood when he needed it the most, and the fda decision to follow the science and safely expand the donor pool. >> for the doctor and his husband, the long wait to make a life saving donation of their own ended. yesterday they were able to give blood for the first time at a medical center in wisconsin.

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perhaps to respond to this sensitive subject, say nothing at all. >> let me close with this, and there's a lot more i know we could talk about. i wish i had a chance to take all of your questions, but i'm going to get in real trouble if i do that. >> carol leonnig is a national reporter for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor, always great to see you, carol. your paper is reporting there are no plans for the white house to address this indictment, quote, they want to emphasize that the justice department's case against hunter biden is independent. karine jean-pierre was asked about it at a press briefing just last hour. let me play for you that exchange. >> would the president pardon or commute his son if he's convict ed? >> i've answered this question before, and i was very clear, and i said no. >> no, he would not pardon hunter biden. that's of course not the president speaking. what more, carol, can you tell us about the white house strategy to deal with the

indictment, and is there any disagreement within either the white house or the reelect? >> i mean, really, chris, we have to distinguish between the human being, the father who has a son who's struggled with addiction and all sorts of personal travails that have been publicly shared and the white house and the president together which have a shared mission of ensuring that the department of justice does not look like the trump department of justice. that it does not appear in any way that the president is directing what a special counsel or a prosecutor, a deputy attorney general or an attorney general will do in any of these cases. i mean, even though you have a special counsel, you also have an attorney general who ultimately signs off on those decisions. and the biden white house wants absolute clarity that they are

not pushing any of these buttons. my reporting indicates that's actually true. it's not just what they're trying to present. it's genuinely true. there's a huge amount of daylight between these two branches of the executive branch. there is no winning for the biden white house in this because the person, the father, is pretty traumatized by what's happened, and disappointed, no doubt, according to people that know him. but there is no winning in him suggesting in any way that he has a role when he doesn't in what the department decides. clearly this case, though, is going to be fought like heck because hunter biden's attorney said yesterday and again today in different forms that this appears totally politically driven by pressure from the outside and that this kind of charge is not normally brought,

and it is really unusual. and that is also true, this is a very unusual charge to bring that someone falsified their gun purchase form. >> and the white house strategy to deal with impeachment, of course, is far different. your paper reports that the reelection campaign went so far as to call the inquiry theater with bad actors. tell us more about that strategy and aggressive pushback. not just from the white house, but from democrats writ large. >> you know, i think it's important in this instance, chris, to distinguish between what members of congress were seeking to impeach donald trump for and what they are now seeking to impeach the current president, joe biden for. in the case of donald trump, it couldn't have been more stark and worrisome to our national security officials and our intelligence officials that he

and our criminal justice officials that he was pressuring a foreign leader to help him smear and announce an investigation of american individuals, hunter and joe biden, and one of them was then likely the candidate for president. the likely person to challenge donald trump for the white house. in this instance, it's much more murky exactly what the evidence is of what joe biden has done that suggests impeachment. it's just very very different. there was a tape recorded and then ultimately then a well transcribed call involving president trump. we knew what he asked for of volodymyr zelenskyy. we knew exactly what he suggested and said or pretty close to exactly, and i am sort

of hard pressed and i think reporters generally are hard pressed to see what is the evidence that is the reason for impeaching in this case, joe biden. >> carol leonnig, always a pleasure to be able to share your deep reporting on this program. thank you so much. good to see you, my friend, appreciate it. up next, why senators are looking toward the stars in the search for billionaire elon musk's impact on the war in ukraine. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! the citi custom cash® card a different kind of card that automatically adjusts to your spending earn 5% cash back on your top eligible spend category up to $500 spent each billing cycle learn more at citi.com/customcash oh, oh, oh...i'll be the judge of that.

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we're back with nbc news exclusive reporting, a trio of democratic senators pressing the pentagon about elon musk's influence in ukraine. the letter to the secretary of defense came from senators jeanne shaheen, elizabeth warren and tammy duckworth, they want to know whether musk personally

intervened to limit ukraine's communication networks, undermining a u.s. ally and helping russia at a pivotal point in the war. nbc's courtney kube broke the story and joins us now. what more can you tell us, courtney? >> this centers around a military campaign last year in late 2022. there was a recent biography of elon musk written by journalist walter isaacson that said that during that campaign, the ukrainian government asked for the ukrainian military to be able to use star link over crimea as part of this campaign, and then that was denied. now, elon musk and the journalists, the author of that book, both took to twitter saying that in fact there wasn't star link coverage over crimea at the time, and the ukrainians were asking it to be extended, and that was what was denied by elon musk and star link. now, the reason that the senate is getting involved, specifically these power 3 senators who were all part of the armed services committee is because they're asking questions about whether there have been other cases where this may have been used as well over ukraine,

and whether the pentagon can do anything going forward, or maybe could have done something about it at the time late last year, chris. >> courtney kube, to be continued, thank you so much. that's going to do it for us this hour. join us every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you, i'm katy tur. how long is this going to last, and how ugly will it get with united auto workers striking against the big three auto makers at the same time. the what happens next is anyone's guess. that's because there are so many different consequences this strike could have. does it force the auto companies to pay more? if so, does it inspire more labor fights around the country? a push to close the gap between ceos and their workers. a redefinition of who should