banquet of sorrow for all. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline. i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning, welcome to morning joe: weekend. let's dive right into the week's top stories. speaker america, democratic congresswoman nancy pelosi of california. >> so great to have you here, you have been in congress for quite awhile but you just have not had enough, have you? you are going back for more. [laughter] >> you have not had enough, that's why i'm here today. [laughter] good morning, good morning, wonderful to be with you. inspired by dr. sevens, my goodness.

let me just say, it was, yes, wonderful to see the bipartisanship that chuck and senator --, leadership lunar and senator -- brought to the -- and to the meetings yesterday, we have to go forward in a bipartisan way that is encouraging. but as i listen to dr. simmons, i am reminded that in addition to thinking in terms of guardrails and standards, and all the kinds of things that we have to do and what is the agency that is going to run this. we have to improve a.i. as it goes forward. and apropos of dr. simmons conversation with you to have. and make sure that we don't have bias in the algorithm. make sure that we are protecting children as we go forward. the 2:30. and these are some of the things that we have been talking about. not just to regulate, but also, to improve the system as it goes forward. not just accepted as it is at the moment because again it is

a double edged sword, it could be a, plus or a minus. but we want to make sure that it's as much a plus as possible for everyone. that is wide no bias in the algorithm when it comes to women, or people of color, and our children. >> madam speaker, we have a couple of stories that we want to talk to you about. one, a story written by david ignatius yesterday, went off like a political bomb in washington, before i get to that i want to talk about today's news. we have mitt romney talking about his retirement yesterday, but dropping also is a story where senator romney said a very large portion of my party really does not believe in the constitution. of mike pence he said, no one has been more loyal or more willing to smile, more willing to ascribe god's will to things that are ungodly then mike pence. and then he said of mitch mcconnell, someone who i saluted for much of what he did on january the 6th, he talked

about trying to warn mitch mcconnell on january the 2nd and be prepared for violence in the sixth, and said, he heard nothing back. i am curious what your thought is about that last one, and also about the other things that we have heard from mitt romney about the republican party that he said most of them do not even believe in the constitution? >> the departure, so far, it has another year. but the announcement by senator romney is bad news, because he is such an example of courage in the united states senate, and in the congress. the part the country needs, a strong republican party. i say that all the time. and they have done great things for our country, and senator romney talked about the contrast as to then and now and hopefully to have it as a place where it is the grand old party once again.

the statements about the constitution, they are troublesome. because that is the unifying thing. our constitution, the oath that we take to defect it. i hope everyone is listening to his remarks in that regard. >> madam speaker, i want to touch on what joe brought up as some of the topics that we want to talk to you about today. it is sensitive. we have had mitt romney announcing that he is stepping down, that age is a factor. and that joe biden, and donald trump, should step aside because age is a factor. and -- writing a piece, and pointing to age being a factor. can you speak to age being a factor potentially, in a good way, seeing as you are on the integral 50 over 50 list. and when i interviewed you about retirement i believe you said to me, what is that? and i'm not trying to be cheeky

or cute about this. it's become a really serious conversation where people are putting joe biden's potential reelection in question because of his age? >> ages relative thing, as we all know. and just looking to our own families and communities and the rest, i come from a community where we just visited with norman lawyer who is 101. fred is 95. both still actively involved in their professions. again it is relevant, i think that joe biden brings such wisdom, judgment, experience to the presidency. he is a great president, and will continue to be a great president. again, it is a relative thing. i can't make a judgment about health as a factor as well. so again, what does, let's be in a very positive thing about

age. it is about judgment and that is what a president needs to have. joe biden knows his why. he knows why he is there. he has a great vision for america. he has knowledge of the issues. he's had so much experience which bring some judgment. he is experienced and strategic in his thinking and getting the job done. we have a record of legislative successes. the two years that we were in the majority with him as president as a great later. and that is all up here. and then in the heart he is the most empathetic president. so his experience is an advantage to us and not to be described as a disadvantage but again it is all a relative thing if you are health is not good in the rest then there may be a factor to be considered there. so i appreciate what senator romney said and i don't know why, it's an interesting day,

because when we are with the president he is vigorous, he is on top of the situation, he is so knowledgeable and you would see him meet somebody and say tell me how your younger son is. i know he was going to college. he has a great memory which is part of something that might be a question as time goes by. but i am excited about this candidacy. the biden harris tea is a team we are very proud of it. and we are all going to work very hard to make sure that they are reelected. >> speaker pelosi good morning it is willie geist, in this conversation we haven't mentioned that donald trump gave an interview last night where he was asked directly of joe biden's two year old. -- now he is not, i have friends in the 80s and 90s who are shoppers attack. he said that he's incompetent or not too old. perhaps some self awareness

about his own age. >> yes. he's 77. let me tell you, when i tell you i was running against some of the, friends oh, the very last. they said she's too old at 83. but happy birthday to bernie sanders at 82. >> i want to ask you about what we see him play out in the last couple of days with your successor, speaker mccarthy, where he has not said yes. we are going to have an impeachment inquiry. not a vote on it but just going to go forward with this. the extraordinary sight of backbenchers, members of the freedom caucus, scolding the speaker of the house saying you are out of compliance speaker mccarthy. he will do is we say. we put you in this job on the 15th vote back in january and here are our list of demands otherwise we will vacate the chair. as someone who not so long ago held that chair as speaker, and it's a very well for a long time, what do you make as you

watch that play out? >> i think it's a continuation of the night that he was confirmed. and voted as speaker. he was making concessions and concessions. i commit the incredibly shrinking speakership. at some point you have to say why do i want to be speaker? what do i want to accomplish? is it just to be speaker for the accoutrements of power in this or that. the cards, that this or that, or to get the job done for the american people? and if your members have the confidence that you are the person to do the job then at some point, there is a decision that has to be made. the decision was made in favor of the french and that is what we are living with now. really for example when i was running for speaker at 18 or 19 right then, i was for pay as you go.

and many of my caucus said well we don't want pay as you go. you have to say that you can do pay as you go. that means if you want to spend more money you have to offset it or you have to have revenue to pay for it. and that was not popular with many members of my caucus. and until you say you're not doing that, i don't want to be speaker. if i cannot be true to what i believe in terms of fiscal responsibility. as well as from waivers for climate change an exceptional things. so you have to just, you're either the person that they want or you are not. and clearly he was desperate enough for the speakership to just grant them veto power over everything that he wants to do. but let's hope for the best. and the experience and the rest of the republican caucus will say we want to get a job done here rather than just go as slow as the slowest ship in a

convoy. rather than a bandwagon of a party to go forward with an agenda. and again working as much as possible on the bipartisan way because we have a democratic president. >> and speaker pelosi, speaker mccarthy made the argument yesterday that nancy pelosi set this president. she waited a long time to have the vote on the first impeachment. with trump you did have a vote we should add, but you said that you made the rules and he is just following them now by not holding this initial vote for an impeachment inquiry. what do you say about that? >> i say it's hogwash. ridiculous. and i don't know why the press keeps to repeating it. the fact is we said that we were going to, i assigned by committee chair, six of them, to develop the facts. because you have to act upon the facts. that's a strange thing to say maybe around here. but you have to go on the facts. we had a couple weeks of doing that, three or four weeks, and then we prepared to bring the

bill to the floor. they have had eight months of investigation, come up with nothing, and now they are trying to say well we're not gonna have a vote because nancy did not have a vote the first day. we had it for preparation for a vote. but again this is a big deal, an impeachment, you have to do it with care. not an impulse. and until we had the case ready, that is when we went forward. they again had been investigating for months, coming up with nothing, and that what they're going to say on the basis of nothing, we're not gonna have a vote on how we go forward. don't blame it on me. just take responsibility for what you are doing there and don't misrepresent the care that we took. the respect that we had for the institution to go forward in a way that really addressed the high crimes and misdemeanors of donald trump. >> you're watching morning joe weekend.

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public service, in one time or another. at the end of another term, i would be in my mid 80s. frankly, it is time for a new generation of leaders. they are the ones that need to make the decisions that will shape the world that they will be living in. now, we face critical challenges. running national debt, climate change, and the ambitious authoritarians of russia and china. neither president biden, nor former president trump, are leading their party to confront those issues. political motivations to often impede the solutions of these challenges demand. the next generation of leaders must take america to the next stage of global leadership. i think it will be a great thing. both president biden, and

former president trump, we'll stand aside and let their respective party, someone in the next generation. president trump, president biden when he was running said he was a transitional leader of the next generation. well, time to transition. >> sam stein, curious, your thoughts about again, not only the retirements but also extraordinarily close that it got from mitt romney. >> i think the most extraordinary quote, just completely filled with extraordinary quotes, was one recorded from mitch mcconnell actually. i'm going to paraphrase, because i don't have the piece in front. but i believe it was after the first impeachment, or in the midst of it. he calls up romney and says i'm jealous, more or less. i cannot say what you get to say about trump. and it was that word can't that i think was kind of extraordinary here. because of course he could, mcconnell could say it. he just would not. and i think that is sort of the

fundamental distinction between romney and everyone else in his caucus. what he conveys to the conferences that his sentiment, exhibited publicly about trump, and trumpism, is more or less shared with 99% of his colleagues. but he may be among the one or 2% who says it publicly. and the rest of them just refused to do it. even though they felt it. and, i think that gives you a sense of where the republican party is. about the compromise is that it has made, about the choices that it has made to get to the point where it is. and it also gives us a really clear understanding of how we got to this point. maybe nothing else would've changed if mcconnell and others had stepped up and said things that they wanted to say, but i fundamentally believe that we would probably be in a different political system or landscape i should say had they follow that path that instinct. >> there's no doubt about it. a man, one thing that have come

out here for that we have all known for a very long time is just how much every republican senator hates donald trump. there is story after story throughout this of how republican senators were trashing donald trump in the cloakroom. we talked about one time where after the mueller report, and after the mueller testimony, trump came to the hill. he was in a great mood. he spoke to the senate and he said, all this is behind me and now we can be the party of health care and as he was walking out everyone was applauding. he goes out the door, the second that he is out the door there is silence for a second. and then the entire room erupts in contemptuous laughter. laughter, mocking laughter of donald trump. all of them! and this is the republican party. this is how they fell behind the saints. but you put a camera up to them, and then they start babbling

and worshipping donald trump. >> in the case of mitch mcconnell, when he says i cannot say the things that you do romney. it's because he gagged himself with partisanship. i always think back to what someone told jonathan martin, i think for a new york times piece allowed go during impeachment. it was mcconnell's view that the democrats would take care of this problem for us. that's a fatal flaw here. is always thinking this is a partisan issue. it is not a national issue. it's not an issue of upholding the constitution. as romney pointed out it's always partisan. well let the democrats take care of it. i will never have to self police or do anything that might blow back on me when it comes to policing my own party. and it's not just mitch mcconnell. as you pointed out they will freely admit that it's behind closed doors but as soon as they go in front of the cameras that partisan gag goes right on and they target themselves. >> as you look at the

composition of the senate, people like mitt romney, or pat, or richard burr. you can go down the line of these old line, reestablishment republicans. they're all gone but making way for candidates like herschel walker, dr. oz, the ones that donald trump likes better. and you're right, if you lead through the excerpts from the book. it eludes to the public, which we share on the show a lot, but you can read it. you see the republican sweeping saying donate, donated donald trump's defense fund. they're coming for him, they're coming for all of us. they have beyond contempt for him. they mock him behind closed doors. which makes what they do out in the public every day all the worse that they know better. that they know better and they know that donald trump is not a good man. no he wasn't a good president but they fear him and they fear his voters and so they go along for the ride every day. >> william i think one of the

biggest takeaways that i have from the case. extraordinary piece really i am very excited to dig into this book is this idea that i think a lot of people have debated and grappled with over the past of eight years now really. which is that trumpism is not an aberration. it's something that mitt romney had believed when he actually decided to make the run and go into the senate. show up in washington d.c.. thinking that he would be the moderating force in washington to be successful at that. and came to quickly realize that this actually was the future of the party. now we are at 2024, seven years after he got here and he has realized that there has been a complete metamorphosis. i haven't talked to one former member of congress who has remarked to me how much the institution as a whole has completely degraded. and mitt romney gets that as well. he was told that the number one

priority in terms of his decision-making process by one of his colleagues is, will this help or hurt my reelection. and that seems to be the driving motivation for a lot of the lawmakers that we see now. of course in the senate as a little bit more room for some moderation for some more traditional conservatives that you just named. although a lot of them are now leaving. they are a dying breed. in the house obviously because of the way that this district has been created, lawmakers can get away with being far more controversial, hard right, and these players rise up in this market universe but as romney also says, at the end of the day what are people like ted cruz, josh hawley, j.d. vance

getting? they are becoming famous senators. what does that mean and the broad context of the world and i think that also gets at this final point which is government the most effective vehicle for change. and that seems to be something that romney doesn't believe anymore. other than the fact that his colleagues don't believe in the constitution. >> after the break we will talk to the washington post's david ignatius, out with a new piece entitled, president biden should not run again in 2024. you are watching morning joe weekend. weekend. p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy to get lost in investment research. get help with j.p morgan personal advisors. hey, david! ready to get started? work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. so great getting to know you, let's take a look at your new investment plan.

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wife talking david and i don't know that you would like to hear what she has to say. but you met. go ahead. >> the pieces entitled president biden should not run again in 2024. and in a direct quote biden wrote his political -- in his address. when our days are through his children and his children children will say the best, they did their best, they did their duty. they healed a broken land. mister president maybe that is the moment when duty has been served. biden would carry two big liabilities in the 2024 campaign. he would be 82 when he became a second term. according to the associated press, in our poll, 77% of the public think that he is too old to be affected for four more years. because of their concerns about biden's age, voters would sensibly focus on his presumptive running mate. kamala harris.

she is less popular than biden with a 39.5% approval rating. according to polling, website fivethirtyeight harris has many laudable qualities but the simple fact is that she has failed to gain traction in the country. or even within her own party. i hope that biden has this conversation with himself about whether to run and that he levels with the country about it. it would focus the 2024 campaign. who is the best person to stop trump? that was the question when biden decided to run in 2019 and it is still the essential test of the democratic nominee today. so david what do you really say here because if you look at biden's track record, and the fact that he has beaten trump, i do not know why you would question his ability to beat him again. there are other presidents who are later in years including the republican presumptive

nominee. is this really about kamala harris? >> so make a, you have summarize my argument and what led me to write this piece just right. i admire many things that president biden has done in the mexican foreign policy. i do think that that legacy at the center of the legacy is the fact that he stopped trump. he stopped him in 2020, he stopped trump supporters in the midterm elections, he's mobilize the justice department that is now bringing trump to accountability. i worry that all of those achievements are at risk. and it seemed to be through this summer i have not gone anywhere in the country. have not talked any group of people where this issue of whether president biden should run again hasn't been a centerpiece conversation. it doesn't get into the

newspapers. it doesn't get much on tv except for fox news which is obsessed with it. and i thought that it was time to raise that question. and again the heart of it is whether joe biden is the best person to carry this legacy forward. he may decide that he's the only person who could defeat donald trump. i mean he sees that as his mission. that's why he ran in the first place back in 2019. he may decide that he is the guy who can do it and nobody else can. that's his decision. but i felt it was time to have a more public discussion about this. it is as i say something, i would be surprised if you and show. and the people that you talk with are not discussing it in private. certainly i find everywhere i go it is a subject. and what journalist like me should do is take issues like that. the people are talking about in private and bringing them

forward so they can have a better discussion. that's a central explanation. >> i want to tap into your expertise though because you write a column that is extremely, i think, in a way it is a very very strong message. for you david ignatius to write this column and you have spent much of your career despite-ing time writing about writing with the greatest strategic leaders of our time on world affairs. and foreign policy. and when you look at what joe biden has done with nato and the war in ukraine, and in terms of galvanizing and putting this country back on the track to lead on the world stage. who would be an alternative right now who could do that on day one? a legitimate one? >> so make a i can't name you that person. the thing about the democratic processes that it yields

answers to questions like that through this amazing phenomena. i still believe in. i will leave that open discussion and nominating campaigns produce claraday. produce candidates and produce leaders. i couldn't agree more that biden has been a strong leader in foreign policy and domestic policy as a wrote in the column. he is past some of the most domestic social legislation in decades. in foreign policy one of the things that i admire most about biden's these gather the team around him a very solid people. who think strategically. he is the leader of that team but the team members themselves were strong. i have no doubt that this team of sensible, strategic people in the democratic party who were driving foreign policy forward in a good way will continue no matter who the democrats choose.

so on that score a much less concerned than you are. >> so far ahead on morning joe. the top gop lawmaker criticizes tommy tuberville ongoing military blockade. we will show you the new remarks. and talk about whether or not the republicans will finally speak out. speak out. embarassing, difficult to talk about, and could be peyronie's disease or pd, a real medical condition that urologists can diagnose and have been treating for more than 8 years with xiaflex®, the only fda-approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate men with pd. along with daily gentle penile stretching and straightening exercises, xiaflex has been proven to help gradually reduce the bend. don't receive if the treatment area involves your urethra; or if you're allergic to any of the ingredients. may cause serious side effects, including: penile fracture or other serious injury during an erection and severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. seek help if you have any of these symptoms. do not have any sexual activity during and for at least 4 weeks after each treatment cycle.

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chairman michael mccaul is criticizing gop senator tommy tuberville's ongoing blockade on military nominations. because of the biden stance on abortion in the military and providing travel for women seeking health care. here is what the congressman had to say. >> this is paralyzing the department of defense. the idea that one man in the senate can hold this up for months. i understand maybe promotions but nominations is paralyzing the department of defense. i think that is a national security problem and a national security issue and i really wish he would reconsider this. >> that's extraordinarily important. richard haass. >> great that he spoke out. i don't know why this is so hard for other republicans. >> why don't we just stop and say it's great that he spoke out? it is so great, it is so great

that chairman bacall who by the way he's had it right on ukraine, he's had it right on a lot of issues. a lot of crazy stuff coming out of the wackos and the waco caucus in the house gop. and that may be smaller than we think. they just have bigger megaphones but that was great richard from chairman the call it sends a good message. we need to hear a republican senate leader on armed services do the same thing and they need to do it every day. the pentagon needs to know. because i had a lot of people reach out to me this thursday or friday whenever we talked about this. man, they need to know the republicans are on their side. not just with whispers but public declarations that they have confidence republicans have confidence and our armed

forces. and not let the republican senators who are saying they wish we were more like russia. or the republican senators who say our troops, our marines, our soldiers, our sailors, our coast guard heroes, our national guard heroes are weak. that's the message or send. nick that they are weak, weak, weak. we need more people like chairman bacall talking about how strong and tough they are and how dedicated they are and how men and women who were leading them are heroes. because they sped a hell of a lot of time fighting in past wars did the defendant protect the united states of america. >> like as you said on the site here about the national guard. we were talking on the camera about what this means. and they basically said there are hundreds of people who can't move ahead and there's a daisy chain effect. their kids can't go to school, they start one school, they're gonna have to be moved to another. this is the sort of thing that we talk about.

recruitment, retention, this is the sort of thing that gets the height of readiness. it is outrageous. every republican candidate for president out of a denouncing. one other thing joe you work in congress. why don't people stand up and say this whole idea of holds, where one senator can hold the entire senate hostage. it's outrageous and nothing in the constitution the last i checked. it's not a matter of law and basically it's a privilege. this is the abuse of privilege that ought to be taken away. stand up to a bully like tuberville and get rid of this abuse of power. >> everything that was just that was right. i'm curious to get your take on the politics of this. what exactly is senator tuberville trying to do. who is his audiences? i understand he has a stance on abortion. and i'm not certainly touting the sincerity of his convictions on that. but if you're looking at a

political prism. abortion has been a losing privilege for republicans for amount of time. and be, master carry day and being a friend of the military is such a central tenet of the republican party for such a long time. isn't he not risking damaging and throwing it away as we go towards another election? >> first of all i agree with everything richard just said about getting rid of the hold. but i am totally baffled by the politics of all of this. what is the audience? i mean donald trump seems to like it, other republicans not willing to take him on. but this is, for the republican party to go along with what tommy tuberville is doing, just strikes me as self defeating and irrational. i mean the damage is doing to the military is very very clear. what message is affective coming from republicans that we are willing to put the u.s. military at risk? where willing to put national

security at risk because of this anti-wokeness agenda. who is the constituency for this? i don't know. this is the republican party talking to a minority of their own base. but the talents of this particular stuff and that's not the right word i don't think. of this reckless behavior is really remarkable and i do think that it speaks to the republican party's inability to police its borders. it's inability to say look, why are you doing this. again i continue to be baffled by mitch mcconnell going on with this. and chuck schumer allowing it to go on. >> up next our conversation with an expert on happiness. we'll ask him, the secret to building the life that you want. and how to hold on to it. old on to it that's why they're proferred ,by this pro who won the superbowl twice. and this pro with the perfect slice. and if we profer it, we know america will too.

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unhappiness. yeah, it is americans have been struggling to see the joy in life for years. over the past decade, the number of americans who say that they are quote not too happy rose from 10% to 24% and those who say they are very happy has fallen from 36% to 19%. and so what's the secret to being happy and staying that way? that is the subject of a new book entitled build the life you want. the art and science of getting happier written by arthur c. brooks and oprah winfrey. >> and oprah joins us now! >> arthur joins us now! >> arthur joins us now! [laughter] >> arthur, we've talked about this, but this book is -- tell me why the time is now for this book. i am thinking especially when it comes to our young people and technology. >> yeah, for sure, but there's

a lot that goes into it. the truth is that happiness has been slow to climb the united states since the early 1990s. that of course when technology really took over on social media in 2008 around the time of the financial crisis, these things came together, and then the coronavirus epidemic, people were just not together. they became more isolated and lonely. and then on top of that, you have the political polarization, which has been the big topic in the show today. all of these things together mean that we are just at loggerheads. people cannot agree on anything except they want to be happier, and oprah and i wrote this book as kind of the handbook for the science of happiness for every person in the country. and we are going to come together, it's been going to because we have a movement for people demanding that one have happier lives today. and this book is trying to start a movement, quite frankly. >> how do you do it? what do you find? >> what's the key? >> how do you find research for the keys to happiness? >> it starts with a basic understanding that we need to manage ourselves, and that requires a whole lot of knowledge.

i teach a class in the science of happiness and harvard here at the harvard business school, my students are incredibly confident and managing businesses in managing money, and everybody watching us is very confident of what they do. there's drivers, they're working hard in the lives, but lot of people will say, i can manage money, i can manage my family, i commence right household. i can't manage my feelings! this is the biggest problem that people complain about. so this is kind of your owners manual for emotions based on the science of emotions that we put in very ordinary terms. based on the science. once you start to understand the nature of how your brain works, how your brain process is so much stimulant going around us, you can have a tremendous amount of power. so this is the best science for ordinary people, taking the classroom to the world today. and look, if overnight do our jobs, we're going to have a much better 23 in 2024 notwithstanding on the political disagreement that we have because people are going to start getting happy and allies. >> so arthur, you are about for

truth about happiness, is the first of which is the check whether you get your happiness nourishment. how do you define what happiness nourishment is for people who are watching? >> the main mistake people make is thinking that their happiness is a feeling. they're chasing feelings all the time. stop chasing feelings! these are like chasing ghosts, you can't get there. feelings are evidence of happiness. happiness is a combination of three real things. the macro nutrients of your happiness meal our enjoyment, satisfaction, and purpose. and we talk in the book about how you can maximize, understand and maximize each one of these things. not chasing pleasure, looking for enjoyment with people in memory. looking for satisfaction, which means that you need to manage not just all the things that you have and have more, but to manager wants, and most importantly, the sense of meaning in your life. the coherence in your life. why things happen in your life and all the things have been studied extensively by psychologists and neuroscientists, and we can use these tools, and we can show them to the people. and so people read this. the reason we wrote this is

because we want to share these ideas, because oprah and i want to be happier, too! >> so in your book, you write about a self test that can indicate our own mix of happiness and around unhappiness. it is called the positive and negative affects schedule. some of us took it before the show, and the results put us in one of four categories. joe and clare are called cheerleaders. above average positive, below average negatives. lemire and i are mad scientists. above average for positives into negatives, and barnacle, you are just, what we knew this. you are just average it seems, right? right in the middle between being a cheerleader and a judge. but arthur, what did these mean, honestly? >> so oprah and i put this very famous testing to book the people can take, and they get taken on the tests website in

the book. and the population is broken up into four groups. you need to understand your personality with respect to a motion before you can start matching yourself. this is the most important thing. and the four groups are based on the intensity of positive and negative emotions that you experience in your life. a quarter of the population is very high in positives and very high negatives. mika, that is you and me. we are mad scientist. that is not a bad thing. everybody has, it's gotten one of these categories, but everybody has these skills in the gifts. then they have people who are very intensely positive but not intensely negative. that is joe and claire. everybody wants to be a cheerleader, but beware, cheerleaders have deficits. they don't like bad news. they don't like giving bad news. if two cheerleaders meet in mere each other, they won't recognize threats. they will spend all of the money and go bankrupt. be careful if you marry a cheerleader. this is a problem. and then you have poets, who are very high negative and very

low positive. that sounds really awful, but the other thing about poets, their creative, the romantic, they're able to tell you the things that might go wrong that can help you. you need them around if you're a ceo, it lasted not, least barnacle. he's a judge, man. that means he is somebody who has stable affect. not going nuts. these are the people you need around if you need a surgeon. you don't need someone to cut you and say, oh my god! you want to surgeon who says, i can deal with this. that is the judge profile. now we are all one, and you to understand yourself and your strengths and to manage yourself. to find your partner, maybe find your spouse who can compliment you. not the same kind of person. and that's where you start the analysis. it's the analysis of you. >> we will have more of the week's top stories ahead. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. short break. oals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today...

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morning joe: weekend. here now are more of the week's top stories. >> they don't even mention the presidential records act. this is all about the presidential records act. i'm allowed to have these documents. i'm allowed to take these documents. classified are not classified, and frankly, when i have them, they become unclassified. people think you have to go through a ritual. you don't. at least in my opinion, you don't. >> the question is simply that your lawyers signed a certification saying that they've turned over everything that was responsive and then when the fbi raided mar-a-lago

they found documents that were responsive that had not been produced. i >> don't with the timing is, again, i would have to check. i just don't know the timing. all i know is that i am allowed to have those documents. >> but with a subpoena, you have to turn them over. >> i know this. i don't even know that, because i have the right to have those documents. and so i don't really know that. >> all right, once again, donald trump seemed to confess on the air how fun it must be to be his attorneys. and all of these cases against him. >> -- confession is good for the soul i guess, that's why donald trump keeps talking about it on tv. >> it is amazing. he sits down with meghan kelly. he sat down with our -- welker, the new moderator of meet the press, and continues to confess. and we have a new trump classic among thousands. i know that, i don't even know this immediately contradicting himself when he sold what is subpoenas presented to you, you have to turn over the documents. also, he keeps that in the

presidential records act, and you can keep being wrong about that. that does not mean that you as an individual get to take the documents with you when you leave the white house. not remotely what the presidential records act says. they go to the national archives, those documents belong to the government. it's what maybe that argument plays well with his audience, with his base, but again, i guess for the 1000th time, that is not at all how the presidential records act works. >> no, no. it's not mike particle, and yet it continues trying to use that excuse. and talking around in circles, but, again and every one of these interviews, you have prosecutors who are just, you know, looking down at their notebooks and, go well, that was a productive interview for us. he's basically just confessing for the prosecutors. every time he gets in front of a camera. >> can you imagine being his lawyer or lawyers? i mean every appearance is the tale of the tape. that is where it goes.

it goes directly to a tape that, all we have to do in the prosecution, its turn on the tape. endless interviews with meghan kelly, everyone. christian welker, everyone who's ever interviewed him he has said something almost indict-able during the course of a regular interview. a nightmare. he is a candidate, or rather, he is someone, a suspect under indictment, who will never ever take the stand in the court of law because of this. >> yeah, and as his attorney, not only do you have to deal all of that, but you also have to look at him in the face and say, good job mister president. or you will get fired. let's start with the federal grand jury though and the indictment of president biden's son hunter on three felony gun charges. i mean in this day and age for a possible criminal trial during the 2024 campaign. two counts are tied to hunter biden allegedly completing a form saying he was not using

illegal drugs when he purchased a colt cobra revolver in october of 2018. the third count alleges he possessed a firearm while using a narcotic. two of the counts carry maximum present sentences of ten years, while the third has a maximum of five years. each count also carries a maximum fine of $250,000. the historic indictment against the son of a sitting president comes after a plea deal fell apart earlier this year. and after house republicans launched an impeachment inquiry seeking bank records and other documents from the president and his son. the case is being overseen by special counsel david rice who is also head of the investigation. weiss is a trump appointee who was kept on as u.s. attorney for delaware because of the sensitive and unique nature of the investigation.

attorney general merrick garland named weiss as special counsel in august just as negotiation over the tax and gun charges collapsed. lead counsel for hunter biden have a little issued a statement that reads, in part, quote, we believe these charges are barred by the agreement the prosecutors made with mr. biden, the recent ruling by several federal courts that this statute is unconstitutional, and the facts that he did not violate the law, and we plan to demonstrate all of that in court. the white house referred requests for comment to the justice department and to hunter biden's legal team. willie? >> and joining us now, former fbi general counsel, now nbc news legal analyst, andrew weissmann. andrew, good morning. so we have to draw some lines here because so much has been conflated by opponents of president biden. these three charges are specifically related to hunter biden buying a firearm, and the

charges are that he lied on the form, filling out the application for the gun that he wasn't using narcotics, and then that he possessed a gun while he was using narcotics. posseso what is the significanf this case if you see any to the larger investigations around hunter biden that republicans say may be connected to joe biden, although there is no evidence presented to that yet. >> so there is no connection at all. i mean this is a alleged crime relive to the purchase of a single gun. there is nothing about burisma. there's nothing about ukraine. there's nothing about foreign business. this is simply a purchase of a gun. i do expect that we are going to see the federal tax charges that were initially sought to be brought and delaware that we are going to see that there's, as soon as today possibly, those, it will be interesting to see what the source of the income was.

there, there may be a connection, but it is important to note that to date, there is simply no evidence that has come up with respect to the current president having any role in terms of the sort of illegality regarding there's tax charges. but it remains to be seen what is alleged by the special counsel here. >> andrew, it's jonathan. let's get your assessment of this charge and terms of how common it is that someone would actually be charge with this. and secondly, even for adding a tax charge to it, as you suspect may happen, -- the likelihood of this going to trial, and if so, when? >> sure. the way i look at this is when the former president was charged and the four separate indictments that exist a legitimate question that people could and did ask was, whether

he was being treated comparably to other people. in other words, is there a precedent for other people being charged in like circumstances, and in the january 6th case, it was an easy call, because scores and scores of people have been charged for doing less than the former president. the same thing in the mar-a-lago documents case. and so you could look to how other people have been charged and say this is confident and consistent with the rule of law. i do not think that is possible in the hunter biden case to say that. this really strikes me as a abuse of the enormous discretion that -- has and deciding not just can you bring a charge, because here you obviously can do it. there is probable cause that a grand jury found. but should you be bringing charges? and here, the first two charges are completely duplicative. and as you mentioned, it is

just not very common to see this type of charge in my 21 years as a prosecutor, i never saw this charge. and i think that's common here. >> so jen psaki, given what andrew just said, i think his question about the politics of it, and you can take a question to him as well, but first i just want to hear your thoughts politically. this is the indictment of the president's son. it is serious, and i was gauging reaction on capitol hill, and you had major players in the democratic party. jamie raskin and others. eric swalwell. all of them respecting the law. there is no screeching and crying about the weaponization of the judicial system. there was, this is sad, we have to follow the law. we have to see what happens if someone got something wrong, they have to be brought to account. this isn't the president. they are facts. >> you're saying back to the people who actually respect american democracy? >> correct.

>> i'm like, you're saying they weren't like fascists who we know leaders were charged with something, the tried to tear down the jury system. they tried to tear down the fbi. so they weren't like republicans who were fascists that we were going to tear down the fbi, the justice department, even the jury system if they didn't like something. >> and really, if i may, how can those republican say everything they've been saying, which has been ridiculous every step of the way, but then say this. in that gauge republican reaction, and right-wing television, and they were acting -- well the hypocrisy is boundless. here is jamie raskin and then we will get to jim psaki on the other side. >> i don't think people should applaud the system when it works for hunter biden but then try to tear the system down when it works for donald trump. i mean both of them have been indicted on various charges. the presumption of innocence operates for both of them. due process operates for both of them, and you know, we

should not take the light and other peoples misfortunes. but we have to have a rule of law. >> i mean, we have to have a rule of law. it's such a relief to hear that from people! including when it's about, as you just said, somebody who was very close to the president. i mean first and foremost, the politics of this are little hard to protect. but right now you have the president's son. somebody loves deeply. somebody who has very publicly struggled with drug addiction now facing these charges, which are serious, and i will let andrew do a contemplation of the legality and the process and all of that, which i know a lot of us have questions on. it's tricky to watch here, and what we all will be watching, is what the republicans do with this on the hill as relates to their impeachment process baloney efforts, right? we did not see a lot of that yesterday. a lot of the tying of these charges to their impeachment efforts.

if there are additional charges that we see from the department of justice that andrew just alluded to, i suspect they would try to do that. but right now what we are looking at, and i think on the politics of this, you know, millions of americans have dealt with a family members who have dealt with drug addiction. who have dealt with alcohol addiction. who have dealt with a range of addiction. my bet is right now that this is a heartbroken president and the white house who is worried about his son. and we are all watching to see kind of what happens with this. >> coming up next, our next big guest, former secretary of state hillary clinton. we will be right back with much more morning joe. more morning joe ♪ shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪

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foreign government investigate a political rival. the president withheld vital military funds from that government to do so. the president delayed funds for an american ally at war with

russian invaders. the presidents purpose was personal and political. what he did was not perfect. no, it was a flagrant assault on our electoral rights, or national security, and our fundamental values. corrupting an election to keep oneself in office is perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one's oath of office that i can imagine. >> senator mitt romney speaking after donald trump's first impeachment trial. right now former u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton. madam secretary, thank you so much for being with us. we have heard when it romney said there, we heard what he said yesterday, but my god, what he told -- over the last year that most republicans don't respect the constitution. and something that we have not said this morning. he said that as he looked at his colleagues, he kept thinking of that yates line,

but the best lack all conviction and that -- the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. been there done that, haven't you? and it just keeps getting worse. >> you know joe, it is hard to imagine how much worse it has gotten from what we thought was pretty much the bottom, and i really appreciate senator romney being so forthright and laying out his tanned observations and understanding of what is going on inside, not just the republicans in the senate, but the entire republican party. it is something that is hard for me to really understand. you know, i was in the senate for eight years. i served with a number of the people who are still there. are used to believe that they all knew better. but they went along with the criminality of trump and his

enablers for their own reasons, but that is some point, they would call halt. and now i don't recognize these people. it is such a disservice to the country, and so we have to keep fighting back as best we can. >> you and i have talked privately about some people that we both worked with in the house and the senate. people that we respect have great respect for. and it really is shocking to see the turn about. i want to ask you a more general question. our last two guests, we had ruth simmons on. every reason to be upset, bitter, skeptical about the world she was raised in, but she said that i am an optimist. i believe even with affirmative action brushed aside, the good people have always forge forward. nancy pelosi said the same thing. talk to young voters right now. are you optimistic? >> you know, i love to quote my

wonderful late friend and predecessor madeleine albright, who famously said, yes, i am an optimist who worries a lot, but i remain fundamentally optimistic, and nobody is going to take that away from me. you know, we are starting the clinton global initiative on monday. we're going to have people from around the world. members of the biden cabinet, people like jose and andreas who is such a hero, all kinds of people who are coming together to make a very clear, optimistic statement, we can get things done if we were together. we can find solutions to our problems. and then i'm very excited to not only be teaching at columbia university, but working to set up the institute of global politics, because we think that we can help find solutions to problems. you know, yes, is there a lot to be worried about, discouraged by, disheartened over? of course there is. but roll up their sleeves,

quick ringing your hands, and figure out what you can do to try to help somebody and help make things better. and try to continually push back on the nonsense and the misinformation and the outright falsehoods coming from the other side. they don't want to solve our problems. you know joe, we could solve the immigration problem, but the other side once a problem, not a solution. and so we are all going to have to just keep going better, and we need people to vote for optimism, positivity, problem solving, and that is what i am hoping young people particularly respond to. and i have to say, for my vast experience now with teaching twice with my great friend dean at cepa, young people are smart, they want to see solutions, and they don't really understand why we are all paralyzed and partisan to the point of getting nothing done together. >> madam secretary, it is good to have you on the show. i want to ask you about a issue

we have been talking about here on the show for the past ten days given an article written by david ignatius and some comments made by mitt romney when he announced that he would not be running again. from your experience, which we've had many viewpoints of affective presidency and building teams, as a first lady, as a member of the senate, as the secretary of state, as a presidential candidate. you know putting together a team and and an administration does not come easily. it isn't magic. and it's definitely not a argument the president biden has had an effective presidency. then he's gotten things done, whether or not he agree with -- people agree with his policies. do you think the questions about his age are legitimate? >> well the questions legitimate, but the conclusion that people draw is i think of pace. look, i am supporting president

biden and vice president harris because of what they've gotten accomplished. i'm kind of old-fashioned that way. i like to see people, as i said, tackle big problems, bring people together, and try to force solutions. and i don't know about anybody else, but i am kind of happy that we are fixing our bridges and our roads in the rest of our infrastructure, and i'm thrilled that we are going to compete with china on advanced manufacturing and that we are going to make the transition to clean energy as quickly as we possibly can, plus bring down drug prices. i could go on and on. so when people say to me, well, he's old, yeah, that's right. but look at what he has gotten done. and then, if that's not enough for, you look at the alternative. a wrecking crew. people who have, as mitt romney said, do not even believe in our constitution. who do not want to solve problems. who only want to engage in meaningless, endless partisan sniping and insulting.

so literally for me, when i look at what has been accomplished with the team that was put together, i am very impressed, and i saw the president and the first lady at the white house just two days ago, and i love their energy, their commitment, their determination, and i am all in to reelect people who got things done. that is what this country needs. we need to remember that we can get good stuff done, and that we are by far the best position country for the 21st century to continue to lead and make a difference. and we just had to get the naysayers and the winners and the snipers, you know, to just go to the back of the room. because they are not helping at all! >> coming up on morning joe. elon musk was on capitol hill yesterday to discuss concerns over artificial intelligence, and the man who wrote the book on the billionaire taxi ego,

walter isaacson returns to morning joe to explain the risk. musk says a.i. presents. we will be right back. l be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

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because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. >> -- we're fighting regulations even though it's a safety thing. we can't wait familiar people to die and accidents. you know, and it's important just elevate the question here. the question is really one of civilizational risk. so it's not like one group versus another group or humans versus another. this is something that's potentially risky for all humans everywhere. >> that is elon musk in washington yesterday after his meeting with a bipartisan group of senators on the future of artificial intelligence. joining us again, professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson. his latest biography is titled elon musk. it's much discussed biography, elon musk. >> good to see you, glad to be

back. >> so we saw you on display yesterday in washington talking about the future of a.i.. how do you, as you write and study him, how do you balance the genius that he clearly has, that is there, with the personality that you described. and hear the word, forgive my french, but a [bleep] you can be both. we've seen that in many of our industry on tech geniuses. how do you get at that balance? >> one of the interesting things about musk is that he really has multiple personalities. you can see him yesterday where he is praising chuck schumer, meeting with chris coons, trying to handle this, and then late at night he will go dark and he will send out some pretty bad postings on x. and the question of any biographer is this complexity of personalities. you want to decry the dark strands. you just don't want to praise anybody who is being a jerk to use a euphemism.

>> i think it was your word i was quoting from the book. >> i think i use the a word in the book, because it is a valid word, and your question is, if you could eliminate all of those dark strands, would you have the same fabric. no. and the other hand, is that justifying the dark strands? no. so the book is a narrative. some people say hey, you should have rendered more judgment. i said no, let me tell you the story, because this is something you can see in all of your life. people who are dark and light, and you have to figure out, as you read this story, what do you make of them? and the same with steve jobs. >> so walter, i'm about a third of the way through the book, and i've already have like multiple things that have gone through my mind reading about this guy, who is clearly a genius on a level very few human beings are. he's also, to my mind, clearly

damaged individual. so i want to ask you about errol musk, his father. and the damage. how much damage to the father inflict upon the sun? >> i think the demons instilled in the childhood are the things that turn into the drives for elon musk, but also the darkness that is still in his head. when he was a young kid, musk was socially awkward. that was a bit of a euphemism for his -- just his inability to relate emotionally. also a scrawny kid. he would get beaten up all the time. he went to wilderness camp where he gets dressed, loses ten pounds because they just take all of his food and beat him up. next he goes to wilderness camp, he loves to punch people hard in the nose, and this becomes a pugnacious guy. but his father, after elon gates beaten up on a playground at school so badly and had to go to the hospital, when he comes back home, he would stand

in front of his father for an hour and a half while his father operates him and calls him stupid and takes the side of the person who beat him up. so i think when you see musk with grimes, one of his girlfriends, calls it demon mode, or his second wife, tallula riley says late night when he would be vomiting because of the stress, he would channel some of the darkness and the words that his father used upon him. >> boy, thanks to that. >> all of us have some demons. i am kind of lucky i grew up in new orleans. it was more easygoing. that's probably why i don't chant on offense to shoot rockets off to mars. >> coming up, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee democrat mark warner standing by. we will talk about russia's emergent alliance with north korea and what it might mean for the war in ukraine. that conversation just ahead on morning joe. morning joe. that's why the new subway series subs

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senator mark warner. the chair of the senate intelligence committee about the war in ukraine, and a budding alliance between vladimir putin and kim jong-un. we started by asking him about the debate over age and office and the need for experienced leaders. >> i'm proud of the fact that i brought 20 years business. i had pretty good run as

governor. i'm proud of the fact that i've been here for 14 years and show the intelligence committee, which is the last fully functioning bipartisan committee. so i do think that makes a difference. i know if we are going to get the questions, i heard [inaudible] was going to be, i was going to talk about the new bromance between kim jong-un and putin. remember, north korea has always been called the hermit kingdom. think how far vladimir putin has fallen that the one guy he can go on the world stage with is the head of north korea, vladimir putin that didn't even go to the g20. and it's one of the things that our hope we were going to talk about this morning, which is the importance of american not walking away from ukraine at this point. the truth is that for 70 years, for those of us who have been around, the united states prepared to take on the soviet union. the ukrainians have taken what worries the world's second best military, the russians, and made them now only the second best military potentially in

ukraine. they have denigrated that military in a way at no cost to americans and lives, a little bit of treasure yes, no cost to nato members and lives. a little treasure, yes, but huge profits. secondly, if we, as some people of advocated, ought to walk away from ukraine right now, who would ever trust america again? you mentioned the fact that biden resuscitated nato. he did, expanded, it brought in countries like south korean australia terms of the fight of supporting our ukrainian friends. if we walked out now no one would ever trust us again and every right not to trust us. and third, and this is the part that i just don't get with some of the guys who are trying to say, let's pull the plug. they say that we don't care about ukraine and putin oftentimes because of donald trump's affinity for putin. but they're concerned about president xi and china. if people don't understand that if putin is successful in ukraine, that gives a greenlight to xi in terms of

his aspirations in taiwan and around asia. they really don't deserve to be weighing in on foreign policy. >> senator, good morning. i think another united states senator a colleague of yours who agrees with you very specifically on everything that you just said is mitt romney, who announced that he is retiring yesterday. i'm curious for your view on what the senate is losing with his retirement in about a year and a half, and what you think it says about the republican party that guys like mitt romney and rob portman and richard burr, and you can go down the list, have looked around and said, in war -- roy blunt have said, i'm not sure this is my party or place anymore. >> well i have worked a lot with mitt romney over his time here. we really came together when -- as one of the first gangs, the last cohen initiation where it of us got together, as allison said, and we had to do one more covid bill. this was under trump. it was called the seven number 99 bill. and we are one seeing the

movement from the traditional sources. that same group came together on the chip spell, the infrastructure bill, the electoral count act, the guns bill, and you name it. and mitt romney has been in every one of the sessions. he has been fair, he has been rational. he has been conservative. anyone who questions mitt romney's basic economic conservatism does not know the guy. it's a great personal loss to me, a great loss to the institution, but you cannot throw in the towel. i mean the one thing that i think that your show, for all of the times that you guys sometimes drive me crazy, but the fact is that the worst thing that could happen is when americans tune out. the time that we saw the data coming out of russia's that 65% the russian people don't believe there is anything they can do to change their system. that is the path to putin. that is the path to authoritarianism. -- for the country is not even frankly donald trump in and of

itself. it was the fact one american say, you know, i'm just going to tune it all out and not be engaged. that is the way that facilitates authoritarian leaders and wannabes like donald trump. and we have to stay in the fight. i think mitt will stay in the fight. he may not do it in the senate, but i think he will stay in the fight. >> coming up on morning joe, when it comes to attacks on americas institutions, the next guests argue quote, democracy is assassins always have a accomplices and we will explain what that means straight ahead on morning joe. on morning joe it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down.

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professor stephen lewinsky and daniel -- argue that the greatest threat towards democracy is not from former president trump's extremist followers who stormed the capitol, but rather from the ordinary politicians many of them inside the capitol that

day to protect and enable them. professors of government of harvard university join us now. they are the authors of the new york times bestsellers, how democracies die. and now they are out with a follow-up on the dangers they say caused democracy to unravel. it is titled tyranny of the minority. guys, good morning, good to see you. so steven, let me start with you about the op-ed, which is the enablers, which is some of the people we've been talking about just this morning. speaker kevin mccarthy perhaps most prominent among them going along for the ride with donald trump on issues that used to be absolutely disqualifier's. not just for republicans, but for anybody. you steal nuclear secrets, bring them back to beach club? game over. you try to stage a coup against united states government and overturn an election? game over. and yet a small minority of the party, who decide governor christie and governor hutchinson on, and they're the only two in the primary field speaking out against donald trump, and they're pulling down in the low single digits. so it is this moment right now

as we both see it in the republican party. >> look, studying democracies and crises of democracies all over the world in europe and latin america, it is very clear that there are three elements to committed democratic politicians. democratic politicians must do three things. they have to always accept the results of elections when or lose. they have to always denounced and refrain from political violence, and crucially, they always have to break from it, announced, try to hold accountable anyone who engages and anti democratic behavior, and on that third front, there are a set of politicians who look like mainstream politicians in the dress like mainstream politicians, they talk like mainstream politicians, but they violate that third tenant. they remain quiet or maybe they justify or condone or protect

groups of politicians to engage in anti democratic behavior. and looking at history and looking at germany and italy and spain and chile and other places where democracy has broken down, it is precisely because mainstream political parties, mainstream politicians refused to break with anti democratic extremists, and that is what really worries us today in the republican party. >> is it just daniel about? power is just that kevin mccarthy wants to keep this up? he knows these things are all bad. he knows all these crimes that don trump is alleged to have committed, and when asked about it he says, well yeah, what about hunter biden? he can't defend all of the stuff we've seen especially lately, but he changes the subject. is it just fear of the voters? is it fear of losing his job? >> i think it's all of those things. and it's often just career-ism. to be a careerists and to think about your future and politics is normal, and that's part of democratic politics. but when democracy is at stake, you have to draw a hard line, and one of the points that we draw in our book is that if you look throughout history,

there's often attacks on congresses and parliaments. the question is how do mainstream politicians respond to that. did they denounce it or do they just look out for their narrow self interest. and when they do that, ultimately democracy gets into trouble. >> and so dan, let's go a little bit further here than. it's one thing to enable than trump right now as his presidential candidate. what happens though for he to win? what would that say about where this country is as an american experience and its democracy going forward? >> frightening, frightening. we've just seen the last several days the rhetoric that candidate trump is using. it's even worse than 2016, saying he will indict his opponent without any basis. i mean, he's explicitly saying that. i think the broader point though has to be that we have to think about, why are we in a situation where the nine states in the situation? and even if things maybe feel okay sundays, we have to come step back and say, you know, america's vulnerable to these dynamics. if not in 2024, 2028, unless we address the underlying issues plaguing our democracy.

>> mika? >> so steven daniel, talking about the careerists like kevin mccarthy, but how it does an entire -- i mean to you look at how an entire party becomes complicit and anti democratic behavior and behavior that is completely in opposition to what they believe. how does that happen? e. how does>> it's happened rather quickly. >> is it a cult? >> no, no. it's not a cult. first of all, there is a transformation of the republican party over the last 40 or 50 years. as america grew more diverse, the republican party got stuck and didn't and reach the point, particularly in the early 21st century, where was having trouble competing nationally in elections, and that radicalized the party. >> we have more morning joe weekend after a short break. ♪

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see her at the time represented me. perhaps it is the memory of that feeling that moved me to remain and university life, to make that experience easier for others who felt excluded. >> that is professor, dr. ruth simmons returning to harvard university where she earned her masters degree addressing the

graduating class there of 2021. 20 years earlier, she made history, becoming the first black president of an ivy league university presiding over brown university for more than a decade. she also served as president to other universities. smith college in texas prairie view a&m. and more is titled up home, one girl's journey, which he writes about going up in texas, the daughter of sharecroppers. people of course who inspired her as a child in the damaging effects that segregation had on her community. and dr. simmons joins us now in studio. dr. simmons, good morning. congratulations on the book. >> thank you so much. >> you have an extraordinary story. the youngest of 12 children, if sharecroppers in a little town in texas, you talk about your tries euros to become the president, the first black president of an ivy league university. i love your focus, your inspiration on a teacher named miss ida may. tell me about. her >> will of course in a rural area of texas, pre civil

rights, we did not have much, and as a consequence, i can remember the first day i walked into a school and saw hopeful person who thought that learning was everything, and that changed my trajectory definitively and that my oldest siblings could not even graduate from high school because they had to work and fields. that had the priority. but here is someone who said, well you are smart, and you can do all kinds of things, and that is what stuck in my mind. >> dr. simmons, your journey and even which we continue to do now is so important, advising on hbcus with harvard and other work, but the whole trajectory of where he started to where you have gone is so

inspiring to young people, and you're talking about your teaching that you met, and not you being an example to so many others, but do you feel that many americans really don't understand how devastating segregation and before slavery was and even shapes a lot of the mentality and psyche that we are dealing with today, because even though we are in another phase of american history, we still are being impacted by what happened in segregation and slavery. my parents lived and rigid segregation. i didn't know, it but they raised me. talk about how in your book you talk about the impact of -- that is still reverberating in american society today. >> thank you. of course my life has been all about students. students at princeton, students at smith, students at brown. since at, dillard students at

feldman. and i want them to understand what our path has been, because when you forget the lessons of the past, you can obviously make the same mistakes. and that's what i see in our country today. i'm very disturbed about the hatred, the vitriolic aspects of the debate that is going on. the efforts to remove from our children the capacity to understand history, the banning of books, and i want my students to understand that there was a time when african americans could not read. they were forbidden to read because that knowledge was too dangerous. two other people. and so we have forgotten so many lessons of our past, and being old enough to have had that incorporated into our life, i want my students to see that you can live through the current time but only if you

are persistent and only if you are completely aware of what is going on and what is happening to you. that is why i wrote the book. >> that does it for us. we're back monday at 6 am eastern. have a great weekend. >> this is the katie phang show, live from miami, florida. we have lots of news to cover and lots of questions to answer, and so let's get started. three by three and three different states. the country's three biggest automakers grind to a halt as 13,000 union workers strike and walk off the job. we go inside the contentious negotiations to end the latest labor stalemate ahead in the live report. dress rehearsal. we can get our first glimpse into what the first of many trials faced twice impeached, quadruple di