cooperate with this investigation and to try to get to the truth of the matter, but as you mentioned india has responded by calling these allegations, katy, absurd. >> meghan fitzgerald from london, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. a president grappling with the health of democracy here at home and abroad, both in public and behind closed doors today. in his third speech before the united nations this morning president joe biden called on world leaders to, quote, bend the arc of history for the good of the world. watch. >> while we still struggle to uphold equal and inalienable rights of all, they remain ever steady and ever true, we cannot turn away from abuses, whether

in tehran, darfur or anyone else. will we find within ourselves the courage to do what must be done, to preserve the planet, to protect human dignity, to provide opportunity for people everywhere, and to defend the tenants of the united nations? there can only be one answer to that question. we must and we will. >> president biden also defending his support for ukraine, framing it as a war for the survival of a young democracy against one of the world's most powerful authoritarian dictators. >> if we abandon the core principles of the united states to appease an aggressor, can any member state in this body feel confident that they are pro detected? if you allow ukraine to be carved up, is the independence of any nation secure?

i would respectfully suggest the answer is no. >> now looming over the president's address today and his efforts to lead the world's democracies, of course is the threat to democracy right here at home posed by the ex-president who faces 91 felony counts including charges for an attempt to overturn a free, fair and secure election and a political party that appears, for now, set to rally behind that ex-president for a third presidential election in a row. at an event in new york city last night, president biden made the choice that the country faces crystal clear. he said this, quote, donald trump and his magaepublicans are determined to destroy american democracy and i will always defend, protect, and fight for our democracy. president biden also mentioned donald trump's affinity for dictators abroad saying this, i will not side with dictators like putin. maybe trump and his maga friends can bow down and praise him but i will not.

regarding the domestic violent extremism linked to an ex-president and allies who direct violent rhetoric at anyone who they consider to be in their opposition, president bide id, quote, i want the entire nation to join me in sending the strongest, clearest, mo powerful message possible, that political violence in america is never, never, never acceptable. the lines between democracy and au her to tare zannism around the world you where we start. former senator claire mccaskill, former lead investigator for the january 6th committee tim healthy, joining us in a few minutes is our friend john heilemann. let me start with you, timothy. i looked at all of liz cheney's, not all, but some of liz cheney's most memorable sort of public pronouncements, and underneath all of them seem to

be almost an anger, on desperation, for her own party to say out loud what they saw with their eyes. it comes out in mitt romney's buy agfy, comes out with president biden's call to draw the line at saying no, political violence is never the answer. i want go back to liz cheney's statements on that front. >> in our country we don't swear an toth an individual or a political party. we take our oath to defend the united states constitution. and that oath must mean something. donald trump made a purposeful choice to violate his oath of office, to ignore the ongoing violence against law enforcement, to threaten our constitutional order. there is no way to excuse that behavior. it was indefensible.

every american must consider this, can a president who is willing to make the choices donald trump made during the violence of january 6th, ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again? there is no defense that donald trump was duped or irrational. no president can defy the rule of law and act this way in a constitutional republic period. those who planned to overturn our election and brought us to the point of violence must be accountable. with every effort to excuse or justify the actions of the former president we chip away at our republic. >> liz cheney sought to bring into focus a larger frame to have this conversation in as a country. president biden is on much more frequent occasions finding ways to communicate with the country the same thing. these are not normal times.

we're not heading into an election where you will pick the person who has the tax plan you agree with most. we are facing a choice between whether or not we remain a democracy or whether we adopt the practices of political violence and defying oaths of office and ignoring the rule of law and it's interesting to see president biden make the same arguments liz cheney did. >> exactly. the threat to democracy was the tie that bound the select committee together. cheney was an effective spokesperson because she elevated focusing on democracy and threats to it over political self-interests. president biden has lots of disagreements on policy with other world leaders but there ought to be a baseline that we don't descend into violent resolution of the conflict.

there are principles that they're best elevating that despite difference, we don't let it get to the point of violence. it's true domestically and internationally. you're right to point out the commonalty between miss cheney's comments and approach of the select committee. let's agree that political violence is unacceptable, even if we disagree on matters of policy. president biden similarly saying we ought to agree worldwide. violence is wrong. taking control of territory in ukraine by an adversarial foreign power is wrong. let's debate our differences without letting it get to that point. >> claire, i think this is sort of -- i think this is in president biden's heart. i think this is what he might say he's been working on for the duration of his very long career in public service, but i know that politicians, having worked for a couple in my own career v a lot of voices, arguing with

them and for them, to do different things. this feels like precisely what this election is shaping up to be about, in a democracy people don't care about economic quality. i'm not saying you don't deal with kitchen table issues and things that hit people in the places that cause great anxiety, but i wonder what you think in terms of what you're hearing from this president and his pronouncements and what's on his mind as the political season starts to heat up? >> well, i think he's trying to do what liz cheney did with the january 6th committee, to escape the drip, drip, drip of depressing facts about what has happened in america and elevate the conversation to something much bigger, much broader, much more important, and that's our values. that's the values this country was founded upon. you know, our country has been the beacon on the hill for the

rule of law. we have been a beacon on the hill for individual rights and respecting elections and the peaceful transfer of power. and it is, frankly, easy for me to get depressed that donald trump is competitive for president of the united states. it is incredibly depressing that so many americans have been fooled and have been lied to and have taken it all hook, line and sinker. i think the more the president tries to elevate this conversation, as liz cheney did, the more he will get those voters whose hearts understand that we cannot tolerate the kind of path that donald trump would take us down if he were to ever to get in power again. >> we're at a moment where special counsel jack smith's office has put the specter of violence as it pertains to the ability for donald trump to have

a fair trial in d.c. and for the government to bring a fair trial in d.c., on the table in black and white with examples. i went back and watched how often liz cheney invoked the violence and violation of his oath. there's a lot of sound as well where liz cheney is talking about dereliction of duty and that is about not lifting a finger and not doing anything as the capital was under siege. i wonder how effective you think it would be for this president to really join into that conversation in a more sustained manner, communicate with the country about the threat level, reassure government workers who don't make enough money to hire bodyguards that they and their family will be safe, get briefings from the fbi unit, protecting the fbi unit protecting the agents investigating hunter biden and protect itting nara for the

first time and protecting the irs for the first time, briefed on those who are looking at the threats on the domestic homeland? >> look, i think he is -- needs to do exactly what he did today and as claire points out what he needs to continue to do which is articulate those principles, the fact that we are governed by a rule of law, the fact that political violence will be met with strong, deterrent steps and we will do all we can to hold people accountable. i think he has to restore confidence. look, the core motivator for people who are at the capitol, you and i have talked about this, nicole, a frustration that system doesn't work, a perception that hey, washington, the folks that are working that building up on the hill, don't represent me or don't -- the system has broken down. the best thing that joe biden can do the best thing that the criminal justice system can do is work, right. is to re-establish that hey, we

actually do have accountability, a process in place, that holds people responsible for criminal activity, a reassertion of sorts in the institutions and the effectiveness of them. the president's rhetoric can influence that and so can the results of these criminal trials. these facts, the same facts that liz cheney articulated, are going to be playing out in a court of law, subject to cross-examination. that has the potential to restore faith right, to convince people that hey, the system actually does work in a way that some congressional fact finding process or media reporting did not. so i hope a combination of this, speeches from the president and other leaders and criminal justice system helps us combat what happened at the capitol. >> the other piece of president biden's speech today is to align himself with the world's

democracies, which is sort of normal stuff, right, at the beginning of any president's address at the u.n., until now, right, because the axis of support for democracies includes ukraine, it includes the west, and it includes joe biden, all democrats, and some republicans, but the axis of support for vladimir putin, kim jong-un and some of the west's adversaries include donald trump in a vocal way. let me show you this. >> he's running his country and at least he's a leader, you know, unlike what we have in this country. i have great confidence in my intelligence people, but i will tell you that preside putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today putin is now saying it's independent, a large section of ukraine. i said, how smart is that?

and he is going to go in and be a peacekeeper. the problem is not that putin is smart, of course he's smart, but the real problem is that our leaders are dumb. >> so that guy that trump thinks is so smart is a credibly accused war criminal who ordered the slaughter of innocence in bucha, he's carrying out atrocities on the battlefield in ukraine. listening to trump say nice things about him is uncomfortable, but it is important because the, again, the structural divide in terms of the choice before americans is extraordinary. >> and he is doing real damage because you now are beginning to see a schism in the republican party, a republican party that up until just a few years ago, would have been monolithic in its support of ukraine. you know, i remember back when republicans were, you know, all

about freedom fries and the cafeteria in congress and how it -- everyone would stand together against the aggression and the countries that did not respect rule of law or individual freedoms or individual liberty. they used to use the word liberty and freedom very commonly in the context of foreign policy. because of donald trump's affinity for thugs and murderers and people who kill their own family and use children as leverage in a war, because of his support for these people, you are now seeing a real problem in america that we need to continue to support ukraine. you're seeing a political problem that trump is 100% responsible for, trying to tell people we need to not worry about the rest of the world and all we need to worry about is our border.

which is so shortsighted and it's very damaging to national security long term. so it is going to be up to the republicans holding the line in congress to make sure we continue to do what we must do to repel the aggression of putin and his thugs. >> it's an extraordinary moment. i think you were on "morning joe" that day in 2015 when trump starts going on and on, i don't know if i was there that day -- >> about putin. >> and -- >> i believe i was on. it still rattles in my head. i still don't believe that it wasn't some bad dream. >> but then he had a presidency that bore it out. >> 100%. >> and a post-presidency he's talking about how smart he is as he carries out war crimes inside ukraine. this, i mean you're here in new york, we're navigating the city. it has a different vibe with zelenskyy in town. >> yeah. >> and it's got more traffic.

i don't know if that's tied to zelenskyy. i won't blame him for that. >> it's u.n. week. >> the stakes feel different. we're not just talking about democracy like as a thought exercise. it's good to be -- we're talking about democracy because whoever wins the next election, a democracy may or may not continue to exist where ukraine is right now. >> you could argue depending on who wins the next election democracy may not exist here. >> i agree with that. >> underscoring the host seat here. i want to just take the conversation one extra place. >> please. >> because, you know, there are -- a question i'm sure you get every day, and it i get every day, god, man, think about trump's four years in office and then the insurrection and now he has 91 felony counts against him, how can this race be so close? that is the question that normal people who are not political experts. the polls, how can it be this close, a margin of error race.

biden be barely ahead. there are a lot of answers to that question. they go to this question of him making the argument for democracy and other things. in the data, it's easy to explain that joe biden right now standing among nonwhite voters key to democratic victories is way worse than it was in 2020 and way worse than what democrats have traditionally performed with at those levels in national elections. one of the key political questions for joe biden, one of them has long been, how can you have a good economy and people don't feel it? >> how do you solve that and get people to understand the economy is better than they think it is? >> for republicans it's the opposite, the economy sucks and you have to convince them you're the only one who can make it better. >> how do you get democratic constituencies, black voters, hispanic voters -- >> women.

>> when you see -- when you're down to -- in 2020 i was looking at the last "new york times" poll he's only at 53 with nonwhite voters. he has 70% of nonwhite voters in 2020. that's a big gap. the reason i raised it is to say it's not insoluble not something he can't address. he has a year to solve the problem. how do you make these issues, talking about zelenskyy and the fate of democracy in western europe, how do you make the issues that donald trump the issues he was making last night at a broadway fundraiser, how do you make those salient to black voters, to hispanic voters? i'm not trying to say they look at the world differently but that decline suggests for a president who has made this argument over the last three years, one way or the other with those voters it's right now not sinking in. it's not the thing that is animating them to the degree it needs to animate them. >> i have a million thoughts. one you say i'm sorry i didn't

push federal voting rights legislation before anything else. i think what you say is acknowledge that i took too long to turn to the weaknesses in democracy and you suffered the most. dozens of them have passed and looking back i wish i pushed for federal voting rights legislation before anything else because without it we don't live in a democracy anymore. >> were you a communication specialist. >> i covered it he every ta. >> you know -- >> i'm not kidding. i think it's -- it is a really -- i think it's really important that he make these democracy arguments. >> anyone with more on the line. haven't always voted because america didn't always mean what it's supposed to mean and to republicans it doesn't mean that anymore. >> these arguments are essential. they're at the center of everything. >> i mean kamala harris can make that argument too. she was on the front lines as

well. >> you have to make them in a way they will be salient to the voters you must have to win the election and not have it be razor thin and the possibility that trump can lose a popular vote but by the electoral college. that's not an outcome anybody is comfortable with. >> we could talk about this for four hours. this weakens democracy because there's reporting today that western leaders look at what you just articulated the razor thin margin between the two how can the autocrat be running neck and neck with the democrat taking -- >> the people at walmart and the people at the u.n. are asking the same questions. it's a big question. it's a mystery, night i'm glad you're here for the hour. stick around. i have to sneak in a break. when we come back a federal judge considering an order that would lead to consequences, real ones, for the ex-president's seemingly endless stream of dangerous and violent rhetoric about charges in jack smith's election interference case, consequences for something we've seen time and time again when it

comes to donald trump. the governor of pennsylvania today making it clear he, too, is focused on protecting democracy and announcing a big new initiative centered around what we're talking about right now, voting in his state hp he joins us live on his mission to make it easier to vote in the commonwealth. later in the broadcast the theme continues. what veterans and national security experts are doing to secure american democracy, as the threat of a second trump term looms large. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. d continues after a quick break. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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my cell phone was doxed and then i was getting texts from all over the country and my wife started getting texts and hers came in as sexualized texts which were disgusting. >> they have had video panel trucks with videos of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and pervert and corrupt politician. blaring loud speakers in my neighborhood. >> we started to hear the noises outside my home. my stomach sunk. are they going to attack my house? i'm here with my kid. anticipate trying to put him to bed. >> a call received by one of our witnesses. quote, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition.

>> so we know already as a country, as a congressional probe, we know from the january 6th hearings what happens to the people who testified under subpoena a lot of them get donald trump. targeted them through phone calls, rallies and social media. the attacks have a result of turning their lives upside down. no surprise that special counsel jack smith has asked a federal judge for a narrowly tailored gag order to restrict the ex-president from making those kinds of statements about the case against him citing threats against targeted individuals. i thought of you when the filing came out while we were on the air friday. quote, the defendant may clear his intent to issue public attacks he related to this case when the day after his arraignment he posted a threatening message on truth social if you go after me i'm coming after you. the file has example after

example page after page of threats and attacks. it covers the spectrum from inciting random violence, broad violence, to targeted violence against witnesses and i wonder what you thought when you read it? >> i was remembering cases that i tried as a federal prosecutor in that same building where if any defendant said anything publicly by social media or otherwise you come after me i will go after you he would be locked up. it's a crime against the system to say things outside of the courtroom that are intended to intimidate, obstruct, prevent people from coming forward. we have seen, as you just pointed out, those words are not simply rhetoric. people take them seriously. there are real consequences. so i think there's a very compelling case for a narrowly tailored gag order. she will likely say something like you can't disparage

witnesses, criticize the process, the court, but he will be able to talk broadly about the sort of underlying issues of the, you know, false narratives of stolen election or otherwise. all of this is going to make it hard for him to delay the trial. every time he issues one of those statements or truth socials however he does it, it makes it less likely he's going to be able to delay this. the best remedy for curing the presidential impact of statement s prior to trial is get the trial done so you minimize the time frame in which there can be done. the more he talks the more likely that march 4th trial date becomes more and more firm. i think it's going to be really hard for him as he keeps talking to have any convincing case to move that case back. >> tim, when you look for examples of this behavior you're digging through, you know -- i was digging through news coverage of famous mob trials go to mexico and read of their

efforts to bring cartels to justice, extraordinary violence that ensues. are those the right parallels? what else do we look to understand what this extraordinarily fraught tension is right now between donald trump and the justice department? >> yeah. absolutely accurate parallels. they're all marked by people of influence, people of stature, people who have leadership over an organization, exerting that authority on others who are lower level in that organization to try to prevent them from cooperating or doing things that will hurt them. that is a very classic and often repeated pattern that you see in criminal organizations. he has influence and power over people that work for him currently, people that used to work for him. his stature within the party gives him currency that people are concerned about crossing, right. they want to work again in republican politics or they want

to not just be safe in terms of their own physical security but they want to maintain a viable future. we had witnesses, the junior staff at the white house, that were scared their cooperation was going to essentially blacklist them from working on future campaigns or future administrations. that's a real thing when you have the leader of the party sort of exercising this kind of rhetoric. it's absolutely apt, pair tloel look at mafia or cartel leaders obstructing justice. >> amazing that sentence can be uttered and it's true. i want to ask you what the impact is on the rule of law when you learn that people like mitch mcconnell see the trump threat as every one of us does. he actually said, according to mitt romney and reporting in the atlantic from a new book about romney, the impeachment managers, quote, nailed him. they had him dead to right on the facts.

what is the impact on the rule of law when one of the two parties keeps them to themselves? >> silence is agreement, right. the failure to act is in and of itself facilitates the nefarious conduct and there are examples of people who maybe not actively participated but did not exercise their opportunity in their discretion to stop the conduct or condemn it. liz cheney, again, we keep coming back to her because she's an articulate spokesperson, donald trump will pass, but to my fellow republicans, your dishonor will remain. absolutely right. like, these sort of silent assent or failure to object to this conduct is every bit as dangerous as facilitating it. >> i think her line was the stain of your dishonor will last forever. i want to bring in john and claire in. i have to sneak in a quick break first. we'll be right back. first.

we'll be right back. i took an oath to defend the constitution. against all enemies, foreign and domestic. patriotism, honor, loyalty. i'm coming forward because our democracy is threatened. donald trump has threatened vengeance if he's returned to power. for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. that's un-american. and against everything i swore to defend. i will continue to defend american democracy. until my last breath. fly to paris. see the tower. smaller than you expected. wait in line. see the mona lisa. smaller than you expected. check in. see your room. bigger than you expected. join one key, where gold and platinum members get travel perks, like room upgrades. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me.

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i don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name over the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. i've gained about 60 pounds. i just don't do nothing anymore. i don't want to go anywhere. i second guess everything that i

do. it's affected my life in a major way. in every way. >> that never doesn't break my heart, but shaye moss and ruby freeman and cassidy hutchinson and everybody and anybody that's provided or told the truth about what they've seen has paid a price. while this filing feels very important and very high stakes, but for the justice department and the ex-president, in the space, right, everybody knows what happens. >> yeah. and look, i think for the people who love donald trump, their attitude is, trump, you know, savages these people who deserve to be savaged. they look at these people and think a series of adjectives, some unpleasant, some you can't

say on television and say these people get what they deserve. donald trump, they try to persecute donald trump. the rest of us look at the images over the course of this time as you were saying before with we now had a lot of donald trump, whole era of trump dominating our discourse, starting with, you know, attacking john mccain and all of us going you can't attack john mccain a war hero. he got away with it. that spun out. attacking people, belittling people, bullying people, putting people down, condescending to them, berating them, threatening them implicitly, explicitly and often his followers, not often, occasionally, sometimes acting in ways that are out and out, you know, doxing people, becoming violent with people, all of that, right, so for anybody who is not in the camp of these people deserve it, for everybody else the message is clear, people know what's going to happen to them if they stand

up against donald trump, for democracy, if you decide to become a poll worker, anybody who is smart enough to be a poll worker knows there's a risk now and i think he should have a gag order against him, threatened with contempt, if he violates it, thrown in jail if he violates it. my guess is if he gets hit with an order he will violate it because he always tests what happens now. he's going to dare people to hit him with attempt citation or fine or put him in jail. i think the only thing that makes me optimistic is that there are a lot of people in america who look at this and don't have the reaction of like, you know, i'm not going to be a poll worker, i'm going to stay home, i don't want to be yelled at. a bunch of people in america, thank god, defiant and will be like you know what, if donald trump is bullying people, bring it on. i'm going to go stand at that -- be a poll worker, an election monitor, do the things that need to be done because the country matters more than me and the

democratic process and the fact that he's waiting and threatening me and that threat is out there, is going to make some number of people, hopefully enough, like ef that, i'm going down. i never wanted to be a poll worker before and now i'm going to be because i'm a not going to let this guy steamroll democracy or me. >> you know, claire, i know you said you were depressed. i feel you. i feel depressed too when i look at some of the polls that john was reading from. but i do feel like right here what john described is sort of the beating pulsing heart of this grand opportunity, right. this election doesn't have to be about agreeing with joe biden on every economic policy or agreeing with joe biden on everything. it has to be about agreeing with joe biden on three things. we should have our fights in elections, not with violence. we should honor the results of an election being free, fair and secure by the officials who row text it. we should align our seflz with

ours like ours, which is a small d be democracy. therein lies for a moment to bring everybody under one roof except the people who think it's cool what trump, and its allies did to ruby freeman and shaye moss. >> that may happen and john is right about people psychologically wanting to fight this evil, this ugly and doing more maybe than they ever have. at least i hope so. but how do we stop donald trump from setting an example in our legal system that allows him to say and do the things that he's getting away with? and how do we stop him? and i -- that's a tough one. a lot of lawyers are talking about what the judge should do after this filing on friday, and some of my friends, some of them former judges, some of them former u.s. attorneys and assistant u.s. attorneys, there's a sense that this judge needs to be very clear about

what happens if he violates the gag order. i tell you what my idea is. if he violates the gag order every time he violates it she should move the trial up one week. the judge should say, every time you violate the gag order the trial date moves forward a week. she's already -- >> it's georgia to keep it up, go before fani willis. >> that's amazing. >> what he wants more than anything is for this not to happen until after the election. so if you're going to hold him to account, do it in a place that hurts him. make him have this evidence come out sooner than later and maybe that's the only chance this judge has of making this trial not the such an outlier in terms of what she's letting the defendant get away with. >> timothy. >> don't want to go up against claire mccaskill as a prosecutor. >> if i were a criminal, having her sit as a judge in my case. smart, teevs you and all the

way. >> the mama bear. timothy, you get to weigh in on that. >> i totally agree with claire that the thing that might have the most effect is linking his statements to the trial date. right. i think judge chutkan may not go as far as claire suggests and move it up, but she'll say i expect her to say, sir, your statements are making it very difficult for us and really, the only way to cure that is to get this matter resolved. every time you open your mouth it will make it -- i will consider that as the trial date is reconsidered upon your what i expect to be your motion. she should link the two because, again, they are linked. to go back to john's point, like there's a parallel between what you're asking with respect to mitch mcconnell and others who have remained silent in the face of this and the reaction that

john suggests everybody will have, will you remain silent and arguably facilitate this or will it motivate you to parse senate whether that's voting or becoming a poll worker or engaging, right. my hope is that this sort of fragile period of democracy has the effect of energizing people to participate. if everybody in this country participates, votes, pays attention, we're going to be in better hands. what happens is people get cynical and stay away and that creeds authority to people who don't necessarily have the right motivation. my hope is john is right, more people that raise their hands to be poll workers than mitch mcconnells who react and say it's difficult, and i'm going to sit it out. >> ruby freeman, not mitch mcconnell. i like that. thank you very much for spending time with us today. we'll stay on this topic and after the break on national voter registration day, we're talking the talk and then

walking the walk. what one state commonwealth did to provide greater access to the ballot box and counter the growing anti-democratic maga movement in the country. that conversation is next. versa. struck out with the cheap seats? important things aren't worth compromising. at farmers, we offer both quality insurance and great savings. (crowd cheers) here, take mine. (farmers mnemonic)

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nonviolent instrument or tool we have in a democratic society and we must use it. >> on this national voter registration day the late great john lewis, the hero pioneer, champion of our democracy's most sacred right, will be the first to remind each and every one of us the fight to protect the right to vote rages constantly. all around us, every single day. we are very happy this afternoon to share good news on this front. in pennsylvania today, using his power as governor, josh shapiro announced his state would make voter registration an automatic part of getting a driver's license or i.d. where before, in pennsylvania, one was offered an option to register while getting a driver's license. the process that involved 19 screens of questions, now people will automatically be taken through the process requiring an opt out of the voter rolls

instead of an opt in. i can imagine the reaction from those still excited about the lie, about nonexistent widespread voter fraud. but it is a definitive victory for those seeking to provide unencumbered right to vote. joining us now pennsylvania's governor josh shapiro. nice to see you, my friend. >> great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> i guess this will date me, but we used to call this motor controversial. now it's sort of an act, a statement, a pro democracy one, but it has its detractors. just take me through the reaction today in pennsylvania. >> i can tell you i began in the conversation by believing that greater voter participation equals a stronger democracy. and you and i have spoken a lot over the last number of years

about the attempts by others to erode our institutions, to erode our democracy torks try to make it harder for people to vote. we talked about the more than 40 lawsuits i engaged in as attorney general. by the way, every single one of them to protect the right to vote here in the commonwealth. then when i was running for governor, i made clear if i was entrusted with authority i would make sure we brought about automatic voter registration. and today on national voter registration day, we did just that. because i fundamentally believe, no matter bho you're going to vote or or your viewpoint is, the more engaged our citizenry, the stronger our country. the healthier or democracy. we took a giant leap forward here in the commonwealth today to do just that. >> do you have any data that gives you any models on how many

more people might be able to participate in the coming couple elections? >> so we have 13 million people who reside in pennsylvania. about 10 million are eligible voters. we think there's a gap between those that are registered and those that are eligible to vote of about 1.6 million people. that is people over 18, eligible to vote, who are not registered. our secretary of state, who is just a fantastic leader in our department of state and a great champion of democracy, he estimates that tens of thousands of people through the automatic voter registration through the dmvs will register in the first year. we hope that will continue to pick up over time. and again, no matter who you're going out there to vote for or what your particular view is or party registration, wit think voter participation is key. it's really important to note that when you're doing this

process through the dmv, it is safe and it is secure. think about it. when you go to get your driver's license or renew your license, you're bringing with you those legal documents. so you name it, and so this creates a more secure registration process. we expect tens of thousands to register and to do so now through this secure way of doing it. >> you have a very, very calm, nonpolitical way of describing this. i think if you have created a brand for yourself so far, it's making government work. there are no blue or red sort of color tones to that. and it is also true that al stands out because he was a republican, who stood up to the big lie. in washington, there haven't been republicans to sort of cross over at a national level to enact policy in defiance of the big lie about fraud. i wonder what you're prepared

for? are you expecting lawsuits from sort of the mahmoud wing on the right? >> we'll see. i'm certainly within my authority as governor to do this and super confident with my legal standing in order to bring this about. i think at the end of the day, if you're going to go to court to try to aggressively disenfranchise people, you're not on the side of democracy. you're not on the side of real freedom. you're not on the side of virtue. i think here in the commonwealth, we have shown that we're ready to stand up and defend real freedom. it's what i have done throughout my career and what i'm conning to do as governor. i think you raise a broader point here that there's this divide when it comes to about our democracy and cherishing our freedom. it used to be that there was no partisan divide on that question. we all valued freedom and democracy and we fought about health care or policy or you name it. we're in a very unhealthy place

right now in this nation. that's why i think it's really important that we take these calm, sober, common sense steps, like what i took here in pennsylvania today to strengthen our democracy and bring more people in. we have also talked over the years about the great divide between so many political leaders are on the far right and where the vast majority of people are. especially here in pennsylvania. there's quite a disconnect there. what i try to do through my leadership style here in the commonwealth is bring people together, speak common sense, and focus on three letters, gsd, get stuff done. >> i got ya. >> we only have about a minute. first, i know that there's no way in which you say i want pennsylvania to be like florida, but one respect i would like it to be like florida, for on election night to know who won pennsylvania in 2024. is there any way to change your

system so we can have the early vote counted so that by the time we go to bed on election night, we know who wins the state of pennsylvania? >> that's precanvassing, something that's done in republican-led states. it's noncontroversial. i have county commissioners who oversee our boards of elections. both parties are asking for this. it does get caught up in some of the extremism in our legislature. i'm going to continue to fight to see if we can change that and get that done, especially before the 2024 election. it's just common sense. people of both parties out in the real world understand that and hopefully we'll get it done. >> the last quick one. i know election day doesn't happen in one day. we have lots of early vote. it's still the case if you want to increase voter participation is let's have election day be a national holiday. have it on a weekend. can i get you to endorse one of those? that would be the easiest thing to make election day a day where

you don't have to figure out how to work and vote. just show up saturday afternoon or a national holiday. >> we obviously need to make it easier for people to access the ballot box, whether they vote by mail or they vote on election day. that tuesday, i think it's important we make it easier. i think it's important we give people the time and space to be able to do that. i also think it's important that we beat back efforts to try to undermine the ability to vote by mail. something i fought against for years and now frankly the republicans have seen the light and they have turned the corner on that. they are not fighting that fight anymore. we have to be vigilant about making sure people have access to the ballot box on election day, and certainly if we can have something that allows people that space, that time away from work or whatever it is in order to be able to cast their ballot and participate, greater voter participation equals a stronger democracy, and

i'm for all those kinds of steps. >> we see you fixing bridges, we see you making it easier to vote. don't be a stranger. come talk to us more often. claire mccaskill and john heilemann, thank you. up next for us, warnings from national security experts and veterans about the fragile state of our democracy. the conversation continues, after a quick break. don't go anywhere. on continues, after a quick break. don't go anywhere. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. i've spent centuries evolving with the world. chase. that's the nature of being the economy. observing investors choose assets to balance risk and reward. with one element securing portfolios, time after time.

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i have staid out of politics my entire life, but i can't stay silent. >> i'm coming forward because our democracy is threatened. >> when somebody is the president of the united states, the authority is total. >> donald trump is an existential threat to democracy. >> which he will destroy because he didn't get his way. >> wow, hi again, everybody. driven by an extreme devotion to our country as well as the fear that its fundamentals value and safety are in peril, veterans

and national security experts are raising the alarms about a potential second term in a brand new way. operation saving democracy, an effort that begins today and is being announced for the first time here at our table on this program is a large bipartisan political action committee working to make sure that voters are eerie re minded of and aware of the dangers that donald trump and trumpism represent to specifically to u.s. national security. comprised of 600 retired admirals, ambassadors, cabinet and service secretaries, appointed leaders, elected officials and operation saving democracy recognizes that trump being the front runner poses a serious and unique threat to the safe toy of the country.

it's a recipe for chaos and at a moment where a myriad of global security challenges require sober leadership. but the threat of trump is only possible because of the enabling of him by members of his own party. a party where extreists are in the driver seat. effect koeg the message from liz cheney, that republicans must choose between donald trump and the constitution, this group makes clear that trumpism goes against the fundamentals of america. here's more from the launch video. >> donald trump has threatened vengeance if he's returned to power. >> for those, i am your retribution. >> that's un-american. >> and against everything i swore to defend. >> patriotism means putting country before self. >> john f kennedy asks what you

can do for your country. >> donald trump demands his country do for him. >> trump puts himself first. >> i serve my country in uniform for 34 years. >> protecting american democracy is where we begin the hour with three members of this new group. joining us is senate candidate and retired u.s. marine corp. amy mcgrath, admiral and biden administration deputy homeland security adviser steve abbott and mike smith, founder of national security leaders of america. they are here to do this. to enannounce operation saving democracy. thank you so much for doing it

here. it gives me the feels just to think about how many people take this seriously. you can sort of feel like you're spitting into the ocean when you anchor a show about american politics day after day and to feel the worry in your voices really does move me. how worried are you? >>wet ought to all be worried. i took an oath of office to protect and defend the constitution just like amy and michael did. 57 years ago. and i continued to believe that that oath is important to me, even though i have been out of uniform for 24 years. i believe we all need to do what we can for this nation. democracy is under threat here. i believe it's under threat more than it has been any time in my lifetime. and so i'm glad i'm part of

operation saving democracy, so we can get the word out to those who understand, need to understand what the threat is and what they can do about it. >> i feel that way, but i don't know why you know why it's under threat. explain that to me. >> i think that let's face it. donald trump is a threat to this nation and to our democracy. we saw that during his administration. he has continued to do that since he left office. it included alienating our allies, coddling tick taers, extorting foreign leaders for political purposes and then leading an insurrection against our government. and he can't handle secret and classified material.

so we need to understand that we need to take the steps that operation saving democracy will take to inform the nation about this and get them on board. >> was it hard or did people want to be part of this? >> people want to be part of this. there are a number, hundreds of retired national security experts, ambassadors, retired generals and admirals who believe we're not going to sit on the sidelines. i was a part of this too. i served the country for 24 years. these gentlemen served even longer. they took an oath to the institution. there's a traditional that you jump into politics and we understand that. this is bigger than partisan pal pol ticks. it's about our democracy. and these gentlemen and who they

represent, they have the courage to stand up and say, hey, we're not going to just sit by the sidelines and watch this. we have to share with voters what we know about our national security and the fact that our democracy is threatened by trump and trumpism. >> it's so remarkable that the fracture is no longer right, left, democrat, republican, it's pro democracy, pro authoritarian toolbook. and i wonder how that changed your efforts to bring everyone. because i think you're right. people don't want want to be president. this is isn't partisan. this is an efforts to protect and save democracy. >> that's even bipartisan. he worked in the biden administration. outside of uniform as deputy to dhs. we all served president who is were republicans and democrats. and it's all of us coming together and saying this is

bigger. it's bigger than partisan politics. we need to stand up and remind voters how important this is right now. it's also about cutting through. because to voters, they hear a lot of politicians. i ran for u.s. senate. what they need to hear and what would help is if there are trusted voices who have served this country in a nonpartisan way to be able to stand up and say, hey, i have dedicated my life to this constitution, to the oath, and this is unacceptable. >> when you look at what has changed in american politics, perhaps nothing more starkly reveals it than donald trump's willing to attack at the family that spoke about the loss of their sonin service of america. when you think about the fact that for trump and his supporters, nothing is sacred. you could get beat up. you could get smeared. how did that play into your

decision to be part of this? >> i think all of us at the end of the day, like all of us here in your viewers, we're all patriots. we love our country. with love our constitution. we have been all over the world and seen so many different forms of government that at the end of the day, it'ses our democracy that's that shining light on the hill. and donald trump threatens all of that listen to the words he's saying, what he will do when he gets back into office, in the oval office he's going to have retribution. he's going to use the government to go after his enemies. it's everything that we fought to defend against. this man is/50 chance of getting into the oval office again. we all have to stand up and do something. we have to do it now. >> i have talked to a lot of former national security and

specifically counterterror folks, who are very worried about this climate. they are very worried about lone actors and the tool kit we have to protect ourself from domestic threats being far less aggressive than the tools we had to protect ourselves after 9/11 by deshrine. >> i'm very kshed. i'm very concerned because domestic threats are threats. suddenly they have become politicized. political speech, as if they are just out there expressing their views. they are not expressing their views, they are terrorists. they are domestic terrorists, but they are still terrorists. how we can take a common view and turn that into a political debate and some sort of litmus test for your patriotism is disgusting. >> it is an amazing sign of how

trump moves the debate over. so politicizing doj was a shock to the system way back when in 2017. but the elements of the republican base have been so socialized and made numb to this, i wonder how you speak to his supporters. >> we are speaking to all americans. these folks, and myself to some degree, they dedicated their lives to serving this country. that's got to stand for something. so when you talk about breaking through to people, it's about that. their trusted voices, they have spent their entire careers in a nonpartisan way. they are not super folks that have come up within the democratic party.

these folks are dedicated to defending our country. they have served at the highest levels of national security. that's why we think their voice can really be powerful. it's unprecedented that this is happening. they wouldn't have had to. can you imagine this happening during the obama administration? no, because democracy was not threatened. >> or even you look at the contest. what john mccain and former president obama fought over was the best way to protect america was agreed upon threats. obama went in and did a lot of the things in afghanistan. there was a robust debate, i think, post 9/11 around the things that george bush did, but not a debate bt what the threat was. and i i wonder how you protect the country if you can't call a threat a threat.

>> i feel like we have to continue to have trusted voices in national security calling out these things. i think that's super important. all the things that admiral abbott said were national security concerns about donald trump are true with regards to foreign policy, but the biggest thing is this is a man who refused to agree to peaceful transfer of power. incited an insurrection that breached our capitol for the first time since the war of 1812. we're not going to just sit by and, oh, that's politics. no, not for us. that's a threat. >> i want to ask you how you plan to sort of take this message to the military. do you have receptive

conversations of people all across the divide that you know from your years in public service? >> i do know that there's ab inclination for all of these individuals to the to continue to serve. they are just like us. they took an oath. frankly, whether they are veterans or military retirees like me or someone that's served in government in a position has ab interest and desire to continue to serve their country. they find different ways that they can do that. it depends on their circumstances, where they are, what they can did do. you have a navy family friend that became the mayor of winter park, florida, but we know we have had had military retirees occupy significant positions in our government. i think five of our presidents. so we have a tradition, a tradition of continuing to serve

the country. each us needs to make a determination about where that's best for us. i became a poll worker in virginia. and as i mentioned before, i served in the george w. bush white house. i'm going to continue to look for opportunities, and i see operation saving democracy as a real opportunity to get that message not only to my fellow veteran, but also to the rest of the united states. >> let me ask you what moment you saw trump as a threat. because some people in national security circles saw the transition as the gravest threat. a son-in-law said at the back channel when he attacked u.s. intelligence officials, i think there were a lot of national security officials who stood back and said, wow, he doesn't talk like an american public servant. >> i personally saw that during the hillary campaign.

the way he was talking issue how he was approaching that, he only codified that belief throughout those four years such that we came together to make sure he gone. that none of us thought we would be here four years later. it's pro democracy. that's what we're about. it's our democratic institutions. the most fundamental part of america is the trust that your vote counts. as a sitting president, the citizens trust and voted. it you can't have faith in those 12 citizens voting in that jury, then where are we? so that's why democracy is on the ballot.

this is not a partisan debate like you talked about between republicans and democrats and the good old days. it's not a partisan lx. this is one of the fund the the elections because it's about the future of democracy. >> so much more to talk about ahead for us, the other maga republican putting democracy and national security and the military at risk. we'll talk about one senator tommy tuberville and the damage his crusade against the pentagon's health care policy is doing to military readiness right now. also ahead, ukrainian president zelenskyy got a warm welcome at the united nations today. he may not get the same warm welcome from some republicans on capitol hill. the poout wing of the republican party in the house is threatening to end u.s. military aid to ukraine.

and later just like his boss, rudy giuliani is getting a reputation for skipping out on his legal bills. we'll tell you about latest trouble he finds himself in. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. house" conts after a quick break. stay 4 nights. meet the baby. make the baby cry. give the baby back. fly home. silver tier in a single trip. join one key and move up tiers fast. ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪

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tuberville blocking the armed forces promotion ises a tonishing. we're up to 300 of the flag officers that can't assume office. we won't have a chairman of the jcs confirmed. we don't have a marine corp.

confirmed, the chief of naval operation, the chief of staff of the army. he's applying political extortion on the armed forces instead of arguing it out in congress. >> that was general mccaffrey on this program yesterday on the insane and dangerous game being played by one senator, tommy tuberville, who for months now has been holding up military promotions over the defense department's policy. more urgent than the stalled confirmation of what would be taking over for mark milley as chairman when he retires on october 1st. but he cannot serve in the role until is and unless he's confirmed. we're back with lieutenant colonel mcgrath. what do we do about this? >> we keep talking about it. it's hurting our national security. and he needs to be pressured. what i have said to the very beginning is this isn't just one

senator. he needs more pressure from fellow republican senators. he's not going to listen to democratic senators. but he can listen to republican senators. and we have to continue to make the case that this is hurting our national security. military is not always going to speak up because they can't in political matters. so we have a duty to do that. we have a commander who is about ready to take over the 7 fleet out in the pacific. he's ready for this job. he spent his whole career, this isn't just plug and play. you can't take one admiral and i'm going to put him in there. you could, but that's not great for our national security. you need the right people. we have the right people nominated, but one man is holding this up. it's hurting us not just our national security at large, but it's also hurting military families. >> it used to be a red line that if you were doing something that

hurt national security, the political price was too high. to say nothing of hurting military families and readiness, they have also warned it's hurting combat readiness. those used to be sur kit breakers in the politics and it's not anymore. >> that's exactly right. it is those two things. it is impacting military readiness and it's hurting the individuals and their families readiness because we have all of these individuals who are having to occupy jobs and at the same time, do their other job. and frankly, these jobs don't lend themselves to do two jobs at one time. so something is going to suffer. in addition, they and their families are suffering from not knowing what's next, whether there's going to be a move, whether the kids are going to come out of school.

and it's being done as a bargaining chip for an issue that's not related to national security. we need to ask whether the senate, actually, it's not a rule, it's a practice that indeed was not put in place for this purpose, but for a different purpose. whether they might need to take a look and clarify that. >> what do you think? they have helped gt me on how difficult it is to speak out when you're inside and on the job and even when you come out. because you are the brave few in speaking out. what do you think is really on the minds of active duty military held up by these promotions because their leaders are in flux? and what do you think they think

of tommy tuberville? >> i think that they look at him and just the hypocrisy of the person in that position that says he cares about veterans, he cares about the military, and don't worry, this won't impact anything it's just fundamentally flawed. so absolutely our active duty have to stay apolitical. but what they are thinking, the first thing everyone is thinking about is their family. these are children that thought they were moing. i glue up as a navy brat. i had my children when i was in active duty. they are constantly moving. it's a rough life to begin with. and now the uncertainty, which school will i be at? or for the spouse, doo i change jobs, can i fill the position in that new city, do i rent the house. so that's the first thing everyone thinks about. i believe the active duty officers can figure it out.

they are going to work it. there's tons of readiness issue, but a personal perspective, do they really want to stick around in an organization that treats their family this way. so at a certain point, you're impacting not just today's readiness, you're talking about the future, and it's time to move on. that's reprehensible. >> thank you for giving them a voice. i'm grateful. thank you to all of you for being here. i hope you'll come back with your ads and with your awe peernss and with your efforts. it's really a privilege to talk to all of you. thank you for coming to the table. thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> we'll stay on it. when we come back, what kind of reception can ukrainian president zelenskyy expect? we'll ask the top democrat the question after a short break. e e quesonti after a short break diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like, "what is your glucose?" and "can you have more carbs?"

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we have to stop it. we must act united to defeat the aggressor and focus all our capabilities and energy on addressing these challenges. please hear me. you need to decide everything openly. while russia is pushing the world to the final war, ukraine is doing everything to ensure that after rush russian

aggression, no one will dare to attack any nation. >> ukrainian president zelenskyy this afternoon at the united nations making an impassioned plea for continued support before the unga, very much ware of the stakes this time around for his country. nearly 19 months into russia's unjustified invasion of his country, thanks to the growing political divide in washington, d.c. where the pro putin republicans said marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz continue to threaten to end u.s. military aid to ukraine and seemingly outrageously have some sway in the republican position. joining our conversation, ranking member of the select committee on intelligence, democratic congressman jim himes. it's very nice to see you. >> good to be with you. >> i know in the fast past, you felt like your committee and its members are an oasis of

bipartisan policy agreement and seeing the facts as they are. i wonder where you assess your colleagues on the other side of the aisle when it comes to continued support for ukraine. >> yeah, that's a super interesting question because there's no question that the vast majority of the house of representatives and the majority of the republican conference, by which i mean probably 150 people or so, are very much in favor of additional aid to ukraine. they understand the stakes. they would vote for the $24 billion that the president has requested. the problem is that there are, and we saw this in the defense bill vote a couple weeks ago. there are 50 or 60 republicans who are at best skeptical. some of whom want to cut off aid today. and as we're seeing just today for those who watch washington closely, the republicans failed to move a bill that used to be easy to move the bill is full of

all sorts of garbage. getting rid of woke stuff, name it, and they couldn't bring it to the floor. it tells you that not just 50 or 60 republicans who are i think are terribly wrong headed in their opposition to aid ukraine are in charge, you quoted matt gaetz, they could have an impact on whether this globally right thing to do moves forward. >> i want to read something you tweeted. right now, the greatest, most powerful country in the world, the city on aill is being held hostage by matt gaetz, ron johnson and tommy tuberville. if you have a minute, read about those guys. what should we know? >> every once in awhile, i use twitter as sort of therapy.

nothing wrong with that. no particular knowledge of the military, no experience for the military, no experience on national security. he's single handedly by preventing the promotion of 400 senior officers, he's single handedly doing more to make our miitary weak than russia or china will achieve in the next six months. and we need -- set aside tommy tuberville, we need to ask if that system makes sense. we're going to shut down the government next week. not because the majority of republicansment to shut down the government, but because matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene and five or six others want to do that. and speaker mccarthy has decided instead of working with democrats, as he did for the debt ceiling catastrophe, he's going to continue to say yes to this lunatic fringe. that way lies a serious decline in our national security, as well as a government shutdown and all sorts of untold problems. >> let me put you on the spot on this question that i wrestle with. really which is dangerous, gaetz

and marjorie taylor greene, who do what they say and say what they are going to do and it's wildly outside the mainstream of democratic and republican national security thought and presidentials, or the leader who caves to them? and one more example. mitch mcconnell turns out just didn't have the fill in the noun you want to say so. we learned that from an atlantic excerpt of a new biography. what in your voou right now endangers the country more? >> the difference between mitch mcconnell and there's no love in my party for mitch mcconnell, and matt gaetz and the freedom caucus generally is mitch mcconnell will, in ways that annoying to this democrat, he will get to compromise. we saw that on the debt ceiling. we have seen that over many years. and mitch mcconnell is very clear about what he wants to do. he wants to get conservative justices on the supreme court, all that good sduf.

but mitch mcconnell understands that the united states government only works if you can find a way to get to yes in a way that is uncomfortable for you. and there are 50 members of the house freedom caucus who will never get to yes. and some subset of those freedom caucus members shs the chaos is the point. for them, chaos is the fuel that lifts up their social media. and governing the biggest and most powerful country in the world is serious business. they are not serious people. >> i wanted to cover lauren boebert, but howard stewart beat me to it. we'll do that another day. i want to ask you about president zelenskyy's trip to this country. it comes a the at moment when i wonder if you're embarrassed of what the most powerful person in the other party is saying about vladimir putin, saying i like it, i don't know if you have seen the comments. poout weighed in on his criminal

indictments and trump said, yeah, feels good to me, i like it. is that embarrassing? >> donald trump's love for brutal dictators is no surprise to anybody. remember the love letters to kim jong-un, the murderous dictator of north korea. we know where he's come trg. donald trump feels hemmed in by the constitution. he would love to be vladimir putin or kim jong-un. so there's two implication. the rest of the world needs to make allowances for the possibility, how did we get here that he could be president again and the real world needs to hedge for that, and i'm sorry about that, but that seems to be the state of our country. and number two, americans really need to reflect on that. they need to understand who vladimir putin is. and by the way, they should watch president biden's speech to the u.n. general assembly when he said there's not a country that's safe if you sign with vladimir putin against

ukraine. lots of weak countries living next to strong countries. if the word goes out that a strong country is allowed to roll tanks, we are back in a world of 1890, that we thought we left behind. so what donald trump says and does is no surprise to anybody. what is a surprise is he has 20% of the american public and ab awful lot of my republican colleagues. >> you are one of the more sort of taented communicators in terms of tying these threats to things that matter in your district and in this country. i wonder what advice you have -- john heilemann was siting some things. what you said that trump could be the leader of this country again is alarming,en couldn't commit to our article 5 commitments, couldn't say anything nice about our allies, couldn't get between him and a microphone when he wanted to praise vladimir putin. these things rattle the world. john heilemann articulated some

concerns about a political season where those things might not resinate. i don't think that's true, but i wonder your view on how you make that matter to all americans. >> sure. maybe two examples to help in that regard. vladimir putin made a catastrophic error in invading ukraine. part of the reason that he did that was he really believed the west was badly divided and that washington was so chaotic, thank you, donald trump, so twisted up in its own isolationism, obsession with the latest scandal we have, that we wouldn't be focused and unite the west against them, as we did. and the way to talk about it today is in the context of taiwan. every single day, the president of china wakes up and says is today the day i should go. and as long as you have the united states saying this is not the day that you go, we are working with our allies, we are helping them, we are taking care of our own military, no thanks

to tommy tuberville, that's a day says xi says today is not the day. but if we continue to hurt ourselves, in which we cast doubt about our commit the, he will move on taiwan. that's tens of thousands of dead people, potentially americans, if we're involved. that's aircraft carriers at the bottom of the ocean. it's hard to paint how apock luptic it could be if we continue to show dysfunction rather than unity in washington. >> i think that is worthy of a longer conversation. if you're in the neighborhood, i would love for you to sit down and take me through that. it's not a lot of leaves that the dus unity that the republicans are so willing to sew around ukraine is perhaps being watched mostly by china. something republicans like to talk about. congressman, it's great to see you. thank you for spending time with us. >> thank you. when we come back, breaking news if the fulton county case against one of the disgraced ex-president's codefendants. we'll be back with that as well

as rudy giuliani's latest legal woes. stay with us. stay with us so caramel swirl is always there for the taking.

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we have breaking news regarding the ex-president's co-defendants in the fulton county election interference case. judge scott mcfeoff feast ruled the attorneys for ken chesebro, who played an instrumental role in setting up fake electors are allowed to speak to the people who indicted him. the members of the grand jury

will be handed down in the case. the judge did put in place strict conditions, including the questions for the jurors must be approved by the judge ahead of time. here's what he had to say about the jurors during a hearing on this matter last week. >> it seems to me that i agree with you that you have a right to talk to grand jury witnesses. what about, we'll get to. but ul say on the front end, i appreciate you filing it this way, because these grand jurors have been through a lot. we need to recognize that. >> pretty extraordinary stuff. to explain it all, let's bring in former u.s. assistant and msnbc legal analyst glen kirschner. we have been covering the threats to grand jurors and others involved in the legal process. so the individuals charged alongside trump being part of a

criminal enterprise are going to question the grand jurors. what do you think? >> it's unlikely this is going to make these grand jurors or perhaps future citizens called for grand jury serve anymore comfortable being involved in the process. it's not unprecedented that a judge would allow some limited controlled questioning of grand jurors, but it is lily unusual. we generally call it piercing the litigation. there's a lawfully recognized veil of secrecy around the grand jury that ordinarily precludes people from interviewing grand jurors. i think we all have come to learn that the grand jury proceeding in georgia are somewhat unusual themselves because you have the two-part grand jury system, which is not the way it's done in the federal system and it's not the way it's done in most states ordinaily,

there's one grand jury that hears evidence, subpoenas witnesses and returns indictments, but we saw the regular grand jury in georgia gets to hear from willing websites, but they don't have the subpoena power and can return indictments, but it was the special purpose grand jury that had the power of the subpoena to call before them reluctant witnesses, but that special purpose couldn't return indictments. they had had to hand it back to the regular jury. there will be some limited and very strictly controlled questioning that he is permitting. but the judge has to approve the questions. it will be in the presence of the kourlt. i would liken this to when we sometimes will bring a trial jury in. because there's been an allegation of outside influence. somebody threatened one of the

jurors, and that is what led to a particular verdict. the judge will sometimes bring the trial jury back in for some limited questioning to see if there was anything that may have infected the deliberations and impacted the verdict that the jury ultimately returned. so as i say, this is unusual, this piercing of the veil of secrecy surrounding the grand jury, but here's the thing. i think if we have confidence that district willis and her team did this right and how could they not have done it right, and followed all of the applicable georgia state laws and procedures when the stakes were so high in this unprecedented investigation and prosecution? -- then ultimately there should be nothing to worry about at the end of the day. i suspect this will be much ado about nothing when the grand jurors come in under the limited questioning permitted by judge mcafee and, it turns out

everything was on the up and up. >> glen, i want to ask you about a story we covered on friday because it broke in our hour, and that was special counsel jack smith's request for a narrowly tailored gag order against trump. that was the most extreme i've read as a nonlawyer so far. all the examples of intimidation and threats and grave concerns about tainting the jury pool. i wonder what your reaction was to that filing and what you think happens next. >> my reaction was it's long overdue. part of the reason we find ourselves in a place where judges are being threatened, prosecutors are being threatened, witnesses and jurors are being harass and intimidated, not just by donald trump's speech and his posts but by what his posts inspire, knowingly inspire in some of his supporters. i think this narrowly tailored

restriction on trump's speech is long overdue. the atmosphere has been allowed to fester and grow and metastasize and we are in this place where every day, nicolle, we are shaking our heads about the latest egregious threat of some perceived enemy of donald trump, somebody who's involved in the process of trying to hold him accountable for his alleged crimes. so i look forward to seeing what judge chutkan does. i suspect she will impose some version of the order that was requested by special counsel jack smith, and then i think, you know, the next thing we will all await is what will happen when donald trump -- not if, but when donald trump violates the restrictions that judge chutkan puts in place. >> glen kirschner, it was worth to wait to get your analysis. quick break for us. we're. k break for us we're.

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never losing hope and showing what happens when you're hopeful, when you fight. why am i saying this? it's over. i'm done. i'm done. >> thank you. >> that was namazi and his brother, one of the wrongfully detained able to touch down on

u.s. soil again. for namazi it had been nearly eight years. the release does not come without some criticism. the u.s. unfroze $6 billion in iranian oil revenue and released five iranian nationals from custody to help make it possible. but today it meant something very different on a human level. as secretary of state blinken put it, it meant, quote, that husbands and wives, fathers and children, grandparents can hug each other again, can see each other again, can be with each other again. another break for us. we'll be right back. r us we'll be right back. ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. >> tech: cracked windshield on your new car? you don't have to take it to the dealer. booking. bring it to safelite. we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech vo: schedule now.

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nice footwork. chase. man, you're lucky, watching live sports never used to be this easy. now you can stream all your games like it's nothing. yes! [ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi nicolle. thanks so much. i'm ari melber. with all the action out of the united nations today, we have a truly exclusive guest tonight,