unless tommy tuberville let us have this vote early, and he did. he voted against it, but he still let us have the vote and we are able to confirm a new chairman to the joint chiefs of staff. we have over 300 other officers. what is to say their jobs are not equally important? what is to say that their families should be left and continue to be left in limbo? we have children who are pulled out of school thinking the going to move to a new duty station, and we can't start them at new schools, spouses have quit their jobs, who now don't have a job, military families who are paying out of pocket because they're in this limbo situation. officer after officer, doing two jobs, both the one they are assigned to, and the one they're now acting in without the confirmation process. >> senator tammy duckworth, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now with a man in for alex. good evening. >> i was gonna tell you quickly, as watching that opening segment you are doing about the red wave that wasn't, and i was thinking back to the --

in one word, which was he is a loser. everything he has been on has lost. somehow, the republican party has not yet realized donald trump is a loser. >> it's so impossible to imagine a democratic one term president. [laughs] like, being paraded around like this, people would get their names wiped from everyone's memory within 24 hours of the laws. >> special elections, elections, you name it he is losing on the ticket. chris, good to see you as always, my friend. enjoy the rest of your evening off. to you at home for joining us this hour. off. at this point, i think it is safe to say we have all seen, at least, a few clips of trump's speech, but this one here on january the 6th, the morning of. we have seen the selfie video trump's adult son, donald junior, filmed backstage in that tent on that day. we've heard countless hours of testimony from witnesses about the discussions of how armed

the crowd was, whether trump himself would get to walk with the protesters as they made their way up to the capital. it is easy to feel like we have learned all that we can about what happened on that fateful day, or at least that there wouldn't be any more surprises. i would be a mistake. today, we may have learned something jaw dropping, and entirely new. today, the guardian released some of the first excerpts of former trump white house aide cassidy hutchins new memoir. in that memoir, hutchinson alleges rudy giuliani groped her. he did it in that tent behind where trump gave his speech on january the 6th. she writes, quote, i find rudy in the back of the tenth, the corners of his mouth split into a cheshire cat smile, waving a stack of documents. he moves towards me, like a will closing in on its prey. we have the evidence. it's all here. we are going to pull this off. hutchinson describes rudy as

saying. then, quote, really rips one arm around my body, closing the space that was separating us. i feel his stack of documents pressed into the small of my back. i lower my eyes, and watches free and reach for the him of my blazer. by the way, he says, fingering the fabric, i'm loving this leather jacket on you. his hand slips under my blazer, then my skirt. hutchinson then describes giuliani's fingers trailing up her, thiol allegedly right in front of trump's other lawyer, john eastman. political advisor from giuliani has called this allegation a disturbing lie, and says giuliani will pursue all appropriate legal actions against hutchinson. i am sure the validity of this allegation will be fought over aggressively in the coming days and weeks. even just the allegation itself is a good reminder that this chapter, this ugly chapter of american history, is still being written.

today, in the georgia case against trump, and the other 18 defendants that were allegedly involved in the attempt to overturn the 2020 election today, in georgia, fulton county district attorney fani willis's office filed a notice with the court claiming that six of the defense attorneys in the case may have conflicts of interest. that may be legally interesting later down the road, but what jumped out at everyone who read that filing was this. part of the d.a.'s office and explanation of these potential conflicts, the office included a list of potential witnesses they may call in the case. on that list, it was this guy, pro trump attorney lynn would. wood was one of the individuals who the special grand jury that investigated that case suggested that fani willis should have indicted. ultimately, for whatever reason, she did not. now, mr. wood is claiming to the press, today, that he is

not flipped against president trump, but he is saying that he's been told to expect a subpoena. whether he is cooperating or not, he may be testifying, and that we know, there is a lot we could still learn from him. wood, of course, while his own lawsuit, trying to stop the certification of the election in georgia, and pushed content online that suggested the election had been rigged. i have a feeling that prosecutors might be more interested in him as a host. here's what i mean by that. these are images of the former slave plantation that mr. wood owns in south carolina. unbelievably, one of the buildings wood owns down there is still, to this day, called cotton hole. after the 2020 election, lin wood claims he invited the likes of sydney powell, michael flynn, a few others down tuesday over for multiple nights, and use the plantation as a home base for planning their efforts to overturn our

election. quote, they set up in my living room, and one of the sunroom's. they looked like elections and general. they had computers, white boards. they were working. now, michael and state so long that, november, he ended in november, ended up carving the thanksgiving turkey. wood could be a very useful witness to prosecutors, even if he was just a fly on the wall in all of that. obviously, there is a big difference here in terms of the credibility of a witness, like cassidy hutchinson, and somebody like rudy giuliani, or even a lin wood. those are the players in this drama. how do prosecutors make sense of all of these witnesses? joining me now are kristy greenberg, former deputy chief of the criminal division at the southern district of new york, and melissa redmon, former prosecutor in fulton county d.a.'s office, and now a professor of law acting university georgia school of law. great to have both of you with us. melissa, is it particularly

meaningful to see lin wood's name on a list of potential prosecution witnesses? he's very adamant that he is not cooperating, per se. can you see a reason why d.a. fani willis might call him to testify in the r.i.c.o. case? is there anything we can glean from that filing today in terms of what kind of case she is building? >> sure. i think the determination of her placing lin wood on the list, is he has some testimony she needs to get out on this trial, right? we know he testified before a grand jury previously pursuant to a subpoena. he testified, i believe, for about an hour, an hour and a half, and so whatever that testimony was, it's something that 88 wants to get out during the course of the trial. she has to put him on the witness list. she has to give him a subpoena. we will see whether or not he voluntarily complies with a subpoena, or she has to have him declared as a material witness, if he refuses to come.

we do know there is something, whether it was the meeting that he held in south carolina, or his actions in the lawsuit, challenging the election results. there's some testimony he has that's valuable to her in the case. >> speaking of what that testimony might be, this is a guy who, since 2020, has definitely taken a reputational hit. he's advanced conspiracy theories, not just about this election, but generally. we don't even have the time for that. what would be the advantage of putting somebody like lin wood, who has given up his law practice, or his law license, because of the reputation, why put him on the stand? is that a risk? >> well first, he has criminal exposure, right? the special grand jury recommended charges against him. if she is going to put him on the stand, fani willis has, one, determined that, after speaking to him, he is credible and truthful, otherwise you don't put a witness on the stand generally speaking, if they aren't. to, they've dealt with whatever

that criminal exposure is. you would expect some kind of immunity, at least based on the limited topics he may be asked about. barring that, he was in a position to know about these widespread election broad claims. remember, he and sidney powell are part of the release the kraken effort. that was how they branded that effort. just like the kraken being a mythical sea monster, we know about these widespread election fraud claims were mythical as well. he is going to be able to -- he's in a position to expose that. so, he could be a very valuable witness, despite the fact that he is obviously credibility issues. if you remember, in the eastern district of michigan, when there was a sanction hearing, he tried to distance himself from sydney powell and that effort. maybe he turned a corner despite what he is saying publicly. >> what he may be saying to fani willis may be different than what he is saying to the atlanta journal-constitution, right? >> they will be. >> melissa, the new revelation about rudy giuliani and cassidy hutchinson's forthcoming book

is the latest in a series of problems facing giuliani. he was once trump splurge, and played a very prominent role trying to overturn the election. there is another big problem for giuliani. his own attorney is suing him to recover, i believe, one point $3 million of unpaid legal fees. our problems like giuliani something that a prosecutor, as smart, as savvy as fani willis is, could exploit, or pay attention to? wouldn't potentially make him a target for cooperation, given that he is so vulnerable and exposed right now? he is so >> it would depend onr or not he will be useful to the prosecutor, whether or not he would be a credible witness. given his past statements and actions, he might not be that valuable. certainly, if he has to make some personal decisions as to how far he wants to ride this train, he may very well approached the prosecutor to ask if there is something they

could work out, if he has something of value that she needs to prove the case. given his participation in the conspiracy, or the alleged conspiracy, i would be doubtful if she would be the one to approach him and reference to any type of negotiation, or cooperation agreement. >> kristie, speaking of legal fees, i want to play for you what peter environ said on this network earlier today with my colleague, i remember. peter navarro was indicted for contempt of congress for not showing up. he was found guilty. there's something interesting that he revealed today, that donald trump has, through a fund paid part of his legal fees. take a listen. >> how much did he help pay free legal fees? donald trump? >> $300,000. my legal fees are well in excess of six. part of the problem here, it's this lot fair, this notion of, if you can't put me in prison, you could at least bankrupt me.

>> is it interesting that trump, or, perhaps, a fund associated with trump is paying the likes of the legal fees for the likes of somebody like peter navarro, even though he hasn't been indicted in the january six probes that we are seeing, or any other charges trump is facing? what does this mean for people like sydney powell, and lin wood? >> the fact trump or some pop associated with him is paying for the legal fees, certainly, gives every incentive for that person who's getting their legal fees paid for to not necessarily provide damaging information to the prosecutors about that person. we don't know what other information peter navarro may have had that could be damaging to trump. certainly, every incentive is for him to stay on donald trump's good side, or the money dries up. >> melissa, today, you have lawyers for three more of donald trump's codefendants, the so-called fake electors appeared in federal court,

arguing their cases to be moved there. you've got jeffrey clark's attorney arguing for his own case to be removed earlier this week. we are still awaiting the federal judge's decision on that specifically. you had the former chief of staff, mark meadows, appealing a movement against his case which was initially shut down. do you have any predictions for where this whole effort goes from here? >> absolutely, and dissipate of judge jones denies movable for the one we have out for jeffrey clark, as well as the three alternate electors, fake electors, depending on which side of the aisle you are on. they would fully -- ivalee expect they would appeal those rulings. they have no incentive to get this case tried as soon as possible. they very much want to be in federal court. they will exercise every opportunity they have to try to get in federal court. it may change depending on if there is a ruling in the

meadows case before we have a ruling from judge jones on their case, and they have an opportunity to appeal. they could read the tea leaves based on the meadows ruling. other than that, i would expect as soon as judge jones issues a ruling, if it is, it would -- he would appeal. >> let me get your thoughts on this split screen we saw today, kristy. this is switching gears a bit to capitol hill. the attorney general merrick garland being, you know, i guess, question and bombarded by republicans for nearly six hours, accusing him of weaponizing the department of justice. let me play this clip, and i will get your reaction to that. >> i am not a presidents lawyer. i will add i am not congresses prosecutor. the justice department works for the american people. >> as somebody who served as a federal prosecutor, and worked, i want to get your thoughts to how republicans have now turned

what they have done. i believe everything they project is almost a confession of something they have done. especially when you think of what donald trump was trying to do with the doj, especially when you put someone like bill barr in, and jeffrey clark in, what do you make of what you saw today? >> merrick garland is obviously not the presidents lawyer. the president's son, who was just indicted by special counsel, you know, garland cleared the way to have those charges be brought because he allowed for that special counsel process to happen. the fact the president's son has now been charged with charges that are legally questionable, as well as questionable from a standpoint of fairness, most people who have situations where they are now ticked don't necessarily find themselves, and have possessed a gun for 11 days, don't find themselves being charged. r 11 days, and never saw charges like that when i was a prosecutor. he is clearly not the presidents lawyer.

you know, it's exactly what you said. looking at the january 6th indictment in d.c., looking at the charges against jeffrey clark in georgia, you could see it is exactly the opposite, that donald trump did everything he could to weaponize the department of justice, the best defense is a good offense. that's what they are doing here. >> as i said, i believe every projection with republicans is, in some ways, a confession about what he did, or what they were trying to do. kristy greenberg, melissa redmond, thank you to both of you. i appreciate you starting us off this evening. this quick programming note to be sure to tune in next monday when rachel maddow will and be cassidy hutchinson about her new book. this will be hutchinson's first live interview since testifying publicly before the january 6th committee. that is nine pm eastern on monday, right here on msnbc. we've got more to come tonight, including president biden trying to channel fdr with a new deal program to tackle climate change. first, house speaker kevin mccarthy trying to hang on amid

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back home who may not follow this that closely, but expect you guys to get this basic function of your job done, and fund the government? >> we are dysfunctional. >> that simple? >> that simple. we are so dysfunctional.

we've got nobody at the head. >> nobody at the head. tim burchett echoing a bipartisan sentiment right now that is spreading all over capitol hill. that, with ten days left to avert a government shutdown, house republicans are dysfunctional. multiple votes brought forth by speaker kevin mccarthy have been stymied by his own party, including a bill to fund the pentagon. this afternoon, with things at a standstill, republicans huddled behind closed doors to, once again, try and reach some kind of compromise on funding. it sounds like there may be some kind of tentative progress. >> i think we have got a plan to move forward, going to d.o.d., and going to a number of other appropriation bills. >> what about the see are, sir? >> we are very close there. i've got more movement to go there. >> all right, but with speaker mccarthy facing multiple attacks from within his own party this week, a little more

movement actually could still be a very long way to go. joining me now, someone who has been closely following what she calls the rage of the top of their caucus on capitol hill, susan glasser of the new yorker. she is back on the show. susan, great to see you. thank you for being here. you heard kevin mccarthy say they are very close on a continuing resolution. do you believe him? >> define very close. it is a very close means very very far away, you might be there. look, this is a season in congress, unfortunately, it is almost made inevitable by the very close house majority that republicans won last year and the elections. it's like 15 ballots from mccarthy to become speaker back in january. and a big picture sentence, it's not us surprising he was going to face a rebellion like this one. the republicans in congress are a party divided. they're not even divided into

two camps. there is a fragmentation that has gone on here that makes it almost impossible for mccarthy. he can curl one group, and another group could raise their hands and object in the last minute. they seem intent on crashing the country into another self made crisis. >> speaking of those camps, we've got matt gaetz, he's been one of the republicans leading the anti-mccarthy charge since at least january when he forced, or was part of the people who forced 15 ballots before mccarthy was eventually elected as speaker. is there anything kevin mccarthy can do to win matt gaetz on his side? based on his rhetoric, on the language matt gaetz has been using to describe kevin mccarthy, it looks like there is a serious problem. >> yes. it does look like there is a serious problem, indeed. look, even the bargaining chips these members of congress, even what they want, it's not clear. that struck me the other day

when mccarthy was asked by some reporters in the capital, what is going on? what do they want? he said, i don't even know. when you are bargaining with people who can't even articulate what it is that they would accept as a bottom line in order to avert this crisis, then you know, on some level, we are in trouble. i keep thinking of the line from succession, these are not serious people. >> he finds himself in this predicament right now because of how he needs to get this bill passed. mccarthy was asked earlier today if he thought it was possible to vote on a continuing resolution, without having to tap into the democrats. no democrats on board. listen to what he said. >> is it actually possible to pass something with just republican votes? >> i believe so. those are the same people that we have dealt with with all the other legislation we've done. >> given that his own party derailed the pentagon bill, and

all his other bills this week alone, does mccarthy sound overly optimistic? >> well, he is an optimist, or he wouldn't be in this job. it requires the patients of jobe to deal with this kind of threat from any single member in his conference, literally any single member in his conference who could, at any moment, press a vote to vacate, and to oust him. that was a key concession mccarthy gave back in january in order to win the speakership in the first place. in the end, he is -- it strikes me, a hostage, but more or less a willing hostage to this faction of far-right members in his own conference. >> if you can, i want to play this for you. matt gaetz speaking on that specific issue. if mccarthy does tap into the democrats, and has to go the bipartisan route on government funding, listen to what matt gaetz said, and i will get your thoughts on it.

>> speaker mccarthy relies on democrats to pass a continuing resolution, i would call the capitol moving truck to his office pretty soon because my expectation would be he would be at the speaker's office quite promptly. >> put that in perspective. how because kevin mccarthy as a result of that sentiment from matt gaetz? >> look, he is a weak speaker because he doesn't have a functioning, governing majority. at the same time, i would note, last week, mccarthy was already very frustrated and furious with matt gaetz who was essentially trying to blackmail him. he already was reported to say, in his own conference, you know, if he wants to threaten me, and make me scared, bring the motion. bring the effing motion to vacate the chair. i know matt gaetz has not yet brought the motion. that tells you a little bit about the sort of kabuki theater that they're engaging in. >> if it's not kevin mccarthy that the right flank of the party is listening to, who do

you think it is? >> [laughs] look, there is a big difference between members of congress, light matt gaetz, and marjorie taylor greene, there are different factions in the house, not to mention the senate republicans who marched to the beat of a different drummer as well. donald trump remains as liz cheney so memorably quoted, another republican house member last year, called him their orange jesus. you know, look, he is in the process of running away with the republican nomination. he was discussing plans to launch an impeachment inquiry in the house with marjorie taylor greene days before mccarthy agreed to it. you know, he is, at a minimum, short of ideological leader, if you will, of this band. >> yeah, couldn't agree with you more on that. never heard orange jesus before,

i'm not sure how i feel about that one. susan glasser, it's always great to see you. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more news to get to tonight, including what is behind the embrace between israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and elon musk, and what it means for the trafficking of antisemitism on the latter social media platform. first, president biden this week implored leaders to help tackle the climate crisis. >> my administration, the united states, has treated this crisis as an existential threat from the moment we took office, not only for us, but for all of humanity. >> today, he announced another big step in that effort, announcing a new deal style initiative. we will have more on that coming up right after the break. remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils.

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opportunity unemployment, to employ 1 million of the unemployed, especially the young men who have dependents. let them go into forestry and flood prevention work. that is a big task because it means feeding and clothing and caring for. we had a twice as many men as we had in the regular army itself. in creating the civilian conservation core, we are killing two birds with one stone. we are clearly enhancing the value of our natural resources,

and, at the same time, we are relieving and insatiable amount of actual distress. >> all right, what do you just heard there was a clip from a 1933 fireside chat by president franklin delano roosevelt in which he pitched the nation on something that had never been done before, a novel idea. it was a civilian conservation core that would put millions of americans to work during the great depression. this new deal program helped build americas public lands, billions of trees were planted, hundreds of state parks and trails were built. in fact, it was among the fastest civilian mobilization in american history, and it became incredibly popular at the time. it is no wonder president biden would want to build upon that legacy and draw inspiration from it, and fulfill a campaign promise he made back in 2020. today, the biden administration announced, the launch of the civilian climate core, which it

says aims to create more than 20,000 jobs in the growing fields of clean energy, conservation, and climate resilience. climate organizers, including groups like the sunrise movement, and democratic lawmakers, have been pushing for biden to launch this program by executive order ever since it was negotiated out of the inflation reduction act. while this is a smaller version of what the original irate proposal was, and much smaller than fdr's new deal initiative, many are calling it a notable step towards addressing today's climate crisis. joining me now is gina mccarthy, former white house national climate adviser for president biden, and former epa administrator under president obama. it's good to have you with us. thank you for coming to new york, and joining us on set, even though you're from boston. we appreciate it. there are two ways to look at this, right? every step counts, most people would agree, everything to help climate change, or fight climate change is important. you look at the scale of us

trying to understand what is it doing, and the focus of this is more on mitigation than prevention. how important is this, realistically, and is it symbolic than impactful? >> it's important because we know young people care about the challenge of climate change, and they want to participate. this is about actual job training opportunities, and clean energy, which is a future. it's also resilient so if disaster strikes, there is more ability to protect people. this is giving young people a real opportunity, especially young people that come from communities that aren't rich, communities that really need these jobs. communitiethese young people wie to get that type of experience, plus get a little boost and reduction in their college to asian. this has a lot of makings of something that is a great start, and could end up continuing to

move forward. they will get clean energy jobs. they will be experienced, and know what they're doing. this is a great opportunity for us, for young people to get jobs and experience. >> could you expand on that a little bit? you are privy to the initial negotiations around the i.r.a., which was to set up a climate core. what are the jobs of the future that are areas that are impoverished and these young people you are talking about are going to pursue? >> clean energy jobs can be as simple as you work with a community to identify a strategy to reduce greenhouse gases you. work with them to look at all the benefits of the inflation reduction act, especially the consumer benefits. you teach them how to access these rebates and tax credits. you look at opportunities to actually go into natural resource areas to help clear land, to get to the end of rush

out and save the -- lower the opportunity for fire damage to happen. this is a wide variety of opportunities. i'm sure it's going to be really exciting, and potentially oversubscribed, is my guest. >> let's hope so. that would be good news, i think. i don't know if you caught that earlier segment, we had a clip from congressman from tennessee describing washington as dysfunctional. my question to you, and i'm sure that is not a surprise to you. he was talking about capitol hill and congress. should the president rely more on executive order to deal with the issue of climate change, given the time crunch civilization finds itself and when nothing is getting done on capitol hill? should he rely more an executive order and i.t. capacity to fight climate change? >> the thing to remember is he has gotten things done on the hill. we are talking about the bipartisan infrastructure law, which is really allowing us to have more resilient infrastructure, and you're talking about the inflation

reduction act, which is more than 370 billion dollars. we are already in one year when this bill extends these credits and tax rebates and other things for some of them ten years. in the first year, we have seen 278 billion dollars of investments. we are talking about huge success already that ought to continue. there is no reason why it wouldn't. this is money that is going to red and blue states. they are taking these dollars and making a lot of it. not so much that they're standing up, saying bravo, we are addressing climate change. they are saying, bravo, we are creating an economic future for our country, a healthier future, one that actually focus investment on communities left behind. >> speaking of economic futures, i would ask you get your thoughts on something we were talking about on the break, and that is the global south. a lot of the attention this week has been on trying to

focus resources to the global south, not because they're the largest contributors of pollution to our planet. in fact, perhaps the opposite. we know it's come from the developing world and china. how do you begin to recalibrate the thinking about the resources that need to be sent to the global south to help with their economic future? >> the first thing you have to do is reconcile that, while the u.s. is moving forward, and with the inflation reduction act, and other things, we are, sort of, moving the other countries in the developed world to actually take similar action. what we have to recognize is the rest of the world needs to engage. the populations are lodged, the poverty can be extreme. they need economic development solutions. they need sustainable energy. they need the support of the developed world to ensure they have the same opportunities that we have. you know as well as eye that we

are the ones that admitted most of the greenhouse gases. we still are. it is really time for us to step up and use our private sector, and public sector to work together to find benefits that will benefit all of us. >> let's hope we could do it sooner than later, we certainly needed. gina mccarthy, thank you so much, really. >> great to be on. thanks. >> we have a lot more ahead tonight, including ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy's tough talk at the united nations general assembly over russian aggression directed at the united nations itself. stay with us. listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it.

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>> a source of this war is russia, but this has changed nothing for russia in the united nations. however, these are the situations that have changed everything for the u.n.. we should recognize that the went finds itself in a deadlock on matters of aggression. >> today, in the united nations security council meeting, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy denounced russia as a terrorist state while sitting across from the russian ambassador who is seen scrolling through his phone as zelenskyy spoke. russia's foreign minister sergei lavrov left the room even before the remarks began.

zelenskyy also called out the u.n. for its inability to meaningfully curb russia's aggression. and its first in-person appearance at the general assembly since russia invaded his country, ukrainian president has had to walk a fine line, rendering criticism while seeking more aid from allies who face increasing domestic pressure to send aid commitments. some countries are actually finding ways to work around domestic political pressure to get ukraine to help its asking for. joining us now is ambassador william taylor, former u.s. envoy to ukraine. ambassador taylor, thank you for being here tonight. greatly appreciated. let me start with this interesting report we learned about, that the u.s. -- it's from the intercept, and it's that the u.s. is secretly -- has secretly brokered a deal with pakistan to provide weapons for ukraine in exchange for an urgently needed bailout from the international monetary fund earlier this year. let me get your reactions to this reporting, and this practice. >> so, ayman, the u.s.

government, the pentagon, the state department as well, they have been searching for weapons and ammunition, the right kind of ammunition that ukrainians could use all over the world, and they have gone to great lengths to identify some nations don't want to send their weapons or ammunition directly to ukraine. they are willing to send it to us, the united states. we have gone to great lengths to find this for ukrainians as you've been reporting. ukrainians are going through the ammunition very heavily, very quickly. there are a lot of nations out there that can do this. it's not surprising that we are doing everything we can to come up with more weapons, more ammunition, to keep the ukrainians in the fight, fell out them to push the russians out of their country. that is the only thing thereafter. we could help them do that by providing the weapons both from our stocks, our manufacturers,

as well as those around the world. >> you certainly know the relationship pakistan has was india. i'm curious to get your thoughts of that complicates things. india has taken a neutral stance in russia's conflict with ukraine. according to the intercepts reporting, pakistan, as you mentioned, is not sending arms to ukraine. do you see this as a potential for tension given in india and pakistan's complicated history that they are now perceived in the russian ukraine or to be on different sides? >> you're right, ayman. it's the case that the indians have tried to stay neutral in this, and have taken advantage of the low-cost oil and gas the russians have had to offer because of the price cap. the indians have been looking to take advantage of that. pakistanis and indians, they've got a rough relationship. they've got a tense relationship all along. i don't think the pakistanis

providing weapons or ammunition to the ukrainians is going to affect that relationship. the indians have not been aggressively supporting the russians, and pakistanis have been supportive of the ukrainians. >> ukraine's grain, as you mentioned, has been very expensive because of russia's blockade. and blockade of kyiv's exports. poland is one of the ukrainian allies banning the import of that grain, causing considerable strain on ties with kyiv. do you think this rift could cause poland do you back out of helping ukraine, or is it a rare and singular display of division between keep and its european allies? >> it's more the latter, ayman. it's a rare display, and there are, as we know, politics in all things. the polls have an election coming up, farmers are an important constituency, as they are everywhere. there is really an intent of

part of the polish government to be seen defending the farmers. at the same time, they are among the strongest supporters of ukraine, and continue to be the strongest among the strongest supporters of ukraine, both on weapons, on taking in refugees, and a range of issues that have been helpful to ukraine's, and they're not backing off of that. there are politics, and there are issues that they have to do things that they have to say as election approaches, but i don't think this is a sign of a rift between poland and ukraine. >> let me, if i can, why did the conversation do some other news taking place at the u.n.. you had the saudi crown prince, sitting down with fox news in an interview that aired earlier today. what do you make of the rehabilitation of saudi arabia, and the come back of the crown prince that he is making almost five years to the day that jamal khashoggi was killed in turkey? >> no one should forget that. no one should forget how that

person died. no one will. that said, as we've seen, leaders from around the world have dealt with other leaders from around the world, sometimes you have to deal with people you don't agree with, don't respect, but there are issues you have to interact with people. this is what is happening with the saudis. >> ambassador william taylor, thank you so much. i do appreciate you joining us tonight. >> thank you, ayman. >> that is our show for this evening. i am ayman mohyeldin in for alex wagner. you can catch me every weekend at eight pm eastern right here on msnbc. now, it is time to hand it over to my friend lawrence o'donnell. florence, how are you? >> alex wagner, think you, we have -- so that means i will be taking notes again as always. n as if there was a winner, and i say if, at this crazy house judiciary committee hearing today, it was