>> so he is towing a very fine line. of course, he supports the effort to look into this impeachment inquiry, but he's a senator saying, look, we've got all of these other priorities. we should not go beyond what the evidence tells us about impeachment. he says, if you do that, then republican voters might penalize republican candidates in the next election. >> i think a lot of republicans are privately harboring the same concerns that vance offered publicly, and polling suggests he might be right. congressional reporter for "axios," sophia cai, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way to early" on this friday morning and all week long. "morning joe" starts right now. he doesn't like it when he's taken on directly and he's confronted. i'm the only one on that stage who is willing to raise my hand, besides hutchinson, who would say, i'm unwilling to support a

convicted felon for the united states. he doesn't like when people stand up to him and call him out on the nonsense he is involved in. maybe he had some bad chinese food or something, wolf. 11:30, little indigestion, attacked me. keep it coming, donald. by the way, if he had any guts, he'd get on the debate stage. he has things to say about me? stop hiding behind your failed social media site, donald, and take me on directly. show up. stop being a coward. >> chris christie with more strong and direct criticism of donald trump, especially about why he's afraid to debate. meanwhile, on capitol hill, far right republicans are pushing the federal government closer to a shutdown. a small group of lawmakers again blocked an attempt by speaker mccarthy to bring a key funding bill up for a procedural vote. we're also following the auto workers strike and the possibility of more walking off the job today. we'll have an update on the

negotiations between the union and detroit's big three. plus, rudy giuliani's legal and financial troubles are starting. negotiations to catch up with him. the federal order he ignored. apparently, he is not paying these two women? >> yeah. >> yeah. and his legal fees are piling up. and cassidy hutchinson accused him of groping her. this guy, it keeps coming. >> every day, willie, it gets worse for the guy who once called himself america's mayor. it's -- i don't -- you know, i don't know if he faces prison, if he faces bankruptcy, if he faces additional charges. again, it's just from all directions, and this is the cost, of course, when you turn your life over to donald trump. >> yeah, america's deadbeat, it appears. he can't pay any of his legal

bills. he's on the hook now for these women in georgia, who he clearly and explicitly defamed, shaye moss and ruby freeman, owes them a bunch of money. it's only just beginning. it was all fun and games until the indictments started coming down, when he was playing along with donald trump, doing whatever he said around the 2020 election, around january 6th. he had promprominence, relevanc and was on tv all the time. now, for people around donald trump, the bill is coming due. >> he doesn't have the money. >> no. from america's mayor to america's deadbeat, following donald trump can get you thrown in jail or ruin you financially. >> you know, used to be a sad story. you'd think of rudy giuliani and say, what has happened to this guy? used to be america's mayor. it's no longer a sad story because he has talked himself into every legal difficulty that's hanging over his head today. he's done it to himself. >> yeah. >> largely selfishly for himself, thinking that he'd carve himself out a bigger role

in an ensuing trump administration, which never happened. >> jen, the impact of this is when he's lying about election workers in georgia, guess what? i'm getting emails from friends saying, oh, have you heard this? there were these two women who whatever. i mean, it took off. it became viral. he spread that lie that ended up, you know, causing great risk to them. >> great pain to them. >> pain, risk, damage. people coming into their house. so, you know, he's now got to pay them off, and he doesn't have the money to pay them off. >> this is like, you know -- this is where maga runs into reality in courts. >> right, it just strops right there. >> all of a sudden, money is due. people are held accountable. they're under indictment. they may be going to jail. it's the one place where people can still be held accountable. >> when maga runs into reality, reality wins when you're in the courtroom, richard. every single time. i mean, we go down the list. 63 federal cases, judges saying,

no, donald, there's no fraud, widespread fraud. his own supreme court going, no, donald, no widespread fraud. alito and thomas, most conservative members of the court, actually write a concurrence, but say, there's not enough votes here to change the outcome. time and time again, it's a great way to put it, when maga runs into reality in the court of law, maga always loses. >> what's interesting, rudy is part of a larger phenomena of the people who went along for the ride, like all the people on january 6th, and hundreds of them are in jail, are paying a price. donald trump stays out. meanwhile, all these other people who went along for this glorious ride are paying, like rudy, are paying the ultimate personal price. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, america's deadbeat and when maga runs into

reality, reality wins. can you top it? go. >> good morning to you guys. it does seem that america's mayor may need more of donald trump's fundraisers to be able to float his legal bills. i guess there might be concerns whether he'd perhaps join the january 6th convict choir, which, of course, has been so many of the former rioters have turned to. yes, to joe's point, this is reality. richard said, so far, donald trump has not suffered the consequences. i think the key word is, so far. he has legal matters hanging over his head. he is going to be, with all likelihood, appearing in a courtroom on at least one of those trials, maybe more, but at least one next year during an election. as he so desperately seeks a return to the white house, in part to try to make some of his legal trouble go away, he's going to be, day after day, sitting there in front of a jury of his peers, and he may suffer those consequences, too.

>> all right. we'll get back to this. let's get to the top story this morning. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy returned to washington yesterday to shore up support for his nation's defense on capitol hill. he was greeted by house minority leader hakeem jeffries and others. in the morning, zelenskyy attended private meetings with lawmakers and assured them of ukraine's solid war plan. house speaker kevin mccarthy praised zelenskyy's candor in the meetings but chose not to greet zelenskyy when he arrived and also declined zelenskyy's request for a joint session of congress. in the afternoon, zelenskyy and ukraine's first lady arrived at the white house to meet with president biden and first lady dr. jill biden there. president biden announced an additional $325 million in aid to ukraine. willie? >> meanwhile, poland is no longer sending weapons to

ukraine after grain exports increase. poland will focus on rebuilding its own weapon stocks. a government spokesman clarified, they're supplying ukraine are already promised weapons. poland has been an ardent supporter, home to nearly 2 million ukrainian refugees. so far, warsaw has provided kyiv with more than $3 billion in military aid. guys, this is a complicated backstory, and richard can probably explain it to us better, about the grain deal, the black sea grain deal. frustration from poland that has been simmering, and then president zelenskyy, in his speech this week at the u.n., taking a veiled shot at poland and other countries in eastern europe for stepping back from their support. >> wow. >> poland says, yes, they do reserve the right to resume those weapon shipments, but for now, they're pulling them back. >> yeah. richard, there's an election in

poland. couple weeks. it is going to be a heated, just critical election for the direction of poland's democracy. that said, zelenskyy could have picked a better time to start criticizing people in eastern europe. i know when we were given $40 billion, i remember one time saying on the show, you know what? just saying thank you. just saying thank you might be a good start. i understand what he is going through, but you look at history. you look at what winston churchill did with fdr, how he constantly worked him, constantly lobbied him, constantly played him, constantly was all over him. keeping fdr in the game, it meant the survival. i will say, zelenskyy, time and again, insults a lot of allies that are giving him billions of dollars, and the pols finally said, enough. again, i think the pols will come back, but we remember the beginning stages of the war.

poland literally threw open its door to millions and millions and millions of ukrainian refugees. nobody was more open and supportive. yeah, this is a really bad development. >> it's a bad development, but poland will continue to transship all the arms from other places. you're right, it's about the elections coming up, cheap grain coming from ukraine. polish farmers unhappy with it. joe, i think there is a larger story going on here. there is a bit of war fatigue we're seeing in poland. refugee fatigue. you're seeing it in washington. we're seeing that the counteroffensive, quote, unquote, is not going to deliver liberation of territory anytime soon, if ever. there is a gap increasingly between the war aims of ukraine and what is happening on the battlefield and the patience of other places. the war is losing its newness, and i think we're coming to a reckoning down the road, where ukraine has, you know, goals of getting all this territory back,

economic reparations, war crimes accountability. people don't see it. and the question is, there are other political issues here in the united states, there in poland. i think what's happening, this issue has to compete with others. the moment where this was the only issue on the agenda has faded, and mr. zelenskyy has to adapt to that. we're seeing it in poland and the united states. politics are beginning to reassert themselves. >> they certainly are. by the way, just a quick side note, we're going to continue with this, but we're going to be talking in a little bit about a new cnn/university of new hampshire poll between joe biden and donald trump. shows what i suspect we're going to be seeing moving forward. right now, things are tight, but you're going to be seeing in swing states like new hampshire a separation, even between the national polls. right now on this latest poll, joe biden is at 52%. donald trump, i believe, is down at 40%.

we'll be following that. again, it's not surprising to me. i know there's a lot of bedwetting, a lot of people screaming, screeching, crying. again, please, somebody tell me, who didn't vote for donald trump in 2020 in the suburbs of atlanta, in philadelphia, in new hampshire, in detroit, the suburbs of any of these places that are going to run back to him now, after january 6th? >> who is going to be inspired by him? >> after four indictments, after all these things. we're going to be talking about that in a little bit. again, joe biden opening up a sizable lead against donald trump. it is very early, but i think you're going to be seeing more of this as we move forward. >> back to the other polls. >> let's bring in former supreme allied commander of nato, four-star navy admiral james stavridis. chief international analyst for nbc news. from new hampshire polls to brzezinski polls. admiral, this is not good news for the ukrainians.

with their future on the line, you would think they'd be working a little bit more diligently to figure out a way to clean things up with poland and its leaders. what's going on here? >> 100% right. let's face the fact that joe biden has been pretty distracted with the united nations. zelenskyy has been 100% focused on coming here. i would guarantee you job one on his to-do list when he gets back to ukraine is going to be poland. also, the united states needs and will be leaning in to try to bring this back together. we've got an ace diplomat in the zone in warsaw, mark brzezinski, brother of mika. i think there will be a concerted effort in the west, and it won't just be washington leaning in. you'll see nato do everything it can to shore up this crack. look, it's a pretty good example

that politics are local. that's what's happening, as richard said, as you said, joe. election coming up. the pols get through that, and hopefully it'll combine with the efforts i described to move this in the right direction. point two, and it's kind of a step back, let's remember who is at fault here. this is russia -- >> right. >> -- that has created this situation by blockaded the black sea, stopping the normal flow of these massive grain shipments, which ought to be going to north africa, the middle east, the lavont. putin weaponized food. as a side benefit, the grain is flowing to the east. it is cheaper and moves across the land. that's what is driving the discontent in poland. the problem, as usual, reverts back to putin. a good way to think about how to

help solve this would be to break this blockade, get the grain shipments moving normally. i'll close with this, nato can do that. we have the capability to escort grain shipments in and out. we have the capability to clear mines. there's some thinking there might be mines in the water. the big picture solution here is to break this blockade. >> richard, let's talk about politics in poland. i really have a lot of questions as to why they would do this, and i don't think it's necessarily fair to blame it on the ukrainians, who are in a terrible situation right now. poland showed themselves, showed the country to be a leader in the world in supporting ukraine, in a way, as already joe described as unprecedented. that no country would do, definitely not the united states of america. they brought in millions of refugees at the drop of a hat and created stations across the border where they could process them and send them to different

parts of poland. it was historic. it'll go down in history. >> literally opened their doors to all of ukraine. >> their homes. >> their homes. >> they told the story of why they could make this unprecedented action, because of their shared history, because of their bond in that way. they worked alongside the u.s. military, the airborne. poland becoming central on this map, redefining nato in the world. now, they're pulling back or threatening to pull back. it seems small, and i wonder what the politics are that are involved with this and poland, inside poland. >> it is small, but i also think it is temporary. you have the elections next month. poland, like us, the far right is going up. the government coalition is worried going into the elections. farmers are unhappy about the cheap grain from ukraine. again, they're worried about the pols in poland, ie, the far

right is going up, so this is an issue. a little war fatigue, resentment against the refugees. i think this is temporary. my guess is it'll be worked out. again, it's not going to stop 90% or 95% of the arms getting there. we're talking about stocks of poland, which are minimal right now, going into ukraine. the polish government said, we're keeping polish arms for poland, but it is not going to affect everything coming through poland. this is more politics and symbolic. yes, president zelenskyy needs to smooth things out and stop going after people. you know, he is under a lot of stress, and he's not as gracious, shall we say, or thanking as he should be with poland, with the united states and others. it's not the first time he's gone off after somebody, but i really think this is not -- this is temporary. the real problem facing ukraine is the counteroffensive, builtup expectations, they can't be met. what now? more of the same?

will it deliver? there is a gap between ukrainian war aims and what is happening on the ground and what is happening diplomatically. that's the real issue. this is a temporary hiccup. >> admiral, is this what putin is counting on, to say fatigue from the west, that western europe, the united states, people who live in our country and in europe say, you know what? we've given them an awful lot of money. it is time to look back toward ourselves and focus on that, and he can wait out the world and step up his war again. that's why, i guess, zelenskyy spent so much time here in the united states, at the white house, on capitol hill yesterday, moving up to canada today, to shore up the support and remind not just politicians but the people canada and others that he needs us and needs us badly. >> exactly right. we say in the military, in every war, there is a center of gravity. that about which everything else revolves. in this war, the center of

gravity is the alignment of the west. are we going to stand together here? that's why this is worrisome. you feel the cracking in the alliance when poland suddenly goes off in a different direction. i agree it's temporary, but it is worrisome. you feel that cracking in washington, where kevin mccarthy won't go down and greet the leader of a nation fighting so courageously. you kind of feel that cracking sense, willie, and that's concerning. and, yes, that is what putin absolutely is betting on, because he doesn't really have a lot of other cards left. his generals are terrible. his military is incompetent. they have managed to dig in and hold off. and, yes, we are headed toward a frozen conflict, a stalemate, ultimately a negotiation of some kind. our job in the west is to continue to support the

ukrainians. i want to close on a point that i get a lot as i'm out speaking about this. people say, oh, you know those europeans, they're not pulling their load in ukraine. that is factually wrong. we have given about $40 billion. the europeans have given about $45 billion. the balance between humanitarian and military is different, but the europeans are pulling their weight. as mika said a moment ago, as you said, joe, have done so in the most open, embracing kind of way. i am cautiously optimistic after we get through these elections, all these factors will pull this back, because that center of gravity, that western alignment, has to remain in place to get to the right outcome in the negotiation. >> well, and the pols know at the end of the day, after ukraine, they're next. >> right. >> i don't know that they have much of a choice. there is an election in a couple weeks that everybody has been looking at for the last couple

of years. we'll see what happens after that. again, if ukraine falls, poland is next. let's see what they do. i will say, it is unfortunate, mika, the united states of america has a speaker of the house who -- >> oh, my god. >> -- who -- there's only one way to put it, made vladimir putin a happy man yesterday, when kevin mccarthy proved he was too scared to be seen next to zelenskyy because of a couple of freaks in his far-right caucus. >> literally. >> mike mccaul, that chairman and many others probably did meet with him. but the speaker of the house being such a coward, he would provide aid and comfort, in effect, to vladimir putin, who, again, trust me, this is a huge win. they will be talking about this on russian state television. that's just shameful. that tells you where this republican party is.

>> retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis, thank you very much, as always, for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," gop infighting prevents movement on a key military spending bill for the second time this week. we'll have the latest on the looming government shutdown as congress leaves for the weekend with no solution in sight. >> i mean, you just look. look at these republicans. they are making america less safe every day. they won't pass the budgets. they use it for political gamemanship. they won't promote military men and women who desperately need to move on to their next position. they won't meet with a leader on the edge of the fight for democracy. it's incredible. plus, the ranking democrat on the oversight committee, jamie raskin, will weigh in as his panel prepares to hold its first hearing on the impeachment inquiry into president biden. also ahead, two former

secretaries of state, john kerry and condoleezza rice are our guests this morning. and the brand-new poll this morning that shows president biden opening up a pretty significant lead on donald trump in new hampshire. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ oh what a good time we will have ♪ ♪ you can make it happen ♪ ♪ yeah oh ♪ now, try new dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. ♪♪ we're not writers,

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and they won't do a damn thing about it because that would mean taking on the oil industry. yeah, they'll stand up for photo ops, but will they ever stand up to big oil? he was strong on foreign policy and getting america's respect in the world. he was thin skinned and easily

distracted. he didn't do anything on fiscal policy. really spent a lot of money, and we're all paying the price for it. he did a better job than biden on the border, trying to corral that in and stop that. he used to be good on foreign policy, and now he has started to walk it back and get weak in the knees when it comes to ukraine. a terrible thing happened on january 6th. he called it a beautiful day, and in the eyes of america, it was a terrible day. >> yeah, she got all that right, which i guess the reason why we're playing that clip is because republicans that are running for president, other than chris christie and asa hutchinson, don't usually say that. >> yeah. that was -- >> but she's saying it. >> -- republican presidential candidate nikki haley in new hampshire yesterday, responding to a question on how trump's

legacy will be remembered 100 years from now. >> mike, this doesn't change. >> quite a legacy. >> when you're looking at polls, don't expect a 10-point or 20-point swing. 0.25, 0.5. here, you have asa hutchinson, okay, not a lot to lose right now because he's so low in the polls. chris christie, focused on donald trump. now, you have nikki haley coming in, telling the truth about donald trump. the truth that everybody knows. they know it. and, you know, that's three. sometimes mike pence is in that group, too. that's significant. i mean, that's four more than did it over donald trump's four years in office. >> yeah, but still, nikki haley, good for her yesterday because she did something that i can't understand why more of the candidates running against him for the nomination haven't done. if you're in a fight, what's the first instinct you have when someone throws a punch at you?

you have to throw a punch back. >> right. >> nobody punches back. nikki haley punched back yesterday, and it was effective to a certain extent, i think, jen. watching her, it was very effective. >> you know, it's kind of late. also, it took her a long time. you know, that was, like, a great clip to watch here, but in terms of, you know, breaking through to voters, that is, like, much -- she's making a nuanced argument. she should have been doing this consistently from the -- >> from the get-go. >> yeah. >> in the beginning, it was, i don't kick sideways. >> but the new hampshire poll, you know what new hampshire folks have been hearing? >> what? >> a lot of chris christie. >> yes. >> right? i think that may be the fact that you have republicans in new hampshire, like chris christie, that's his whole game, right, is new hampshire and making this forceful argument against donald trump. that's effective, too. >> in a state like new hampshire, he was talking about, oh, people can do whatever. no, in new hampshire, it goes

town hall meeting to town hall meeting, church to church, school to school. if somebody heard nikki haley saying what she said, and last week they heard chris christie saying what chris christie says, that's getting around when they're in church. that's getting around when they're in the caroline in school. going, hey, did you see what nikki said last night at the hall? see what she said last night at the lodge? that does start to spread in new hampshire. it starts to accumulate. >> despite the glittering media we have around the country, every state, the nation focusing on politics, new hampshire remains unique. it still goes back to udall running for president in the '70s in new hampshire. he went to a barbershop and asked a guy for his vote. he said, well, i haven't made up my mind about you. i've only met you twice. >> right. >> people meet everyone in new hampshire. if you go to new hampshire, i was driving up there last week, you see signs of a christie candidacy that's alive in new

hampshire. >> yeah. >> he's been up there so much. that's an old secret. it's not really a secret. you have to show up in new hampshire. >> yeah. >> for sure. >> when you show up, the word spreads. again, neighbor to neighbor, friend to friend, family to family. you know, chinese religious cults, their websites have less to do than when people are talking to you at school, in a caroline, -- car line, saying, hey, they were down the street yesterday and here's what they said. biden is leading trump in a hypothetical rematch. the latest cnn new hampshire poll shows 52% of potential 2024 voters in the state would back biden, while 40% would vote for trump. 8% say they are either unsure or would back someone else. >> yeah. willie, it's early.

this could be an outlier. people will be freaking out, then we'll see what people are saying in the suburbs, in swing states like new hampshire, and understand that joe biden is not buried quite yet. >> yeah. if you look inside the poll, there's been talk about joe biden's age. even democrats want somebody else to run. how many times have we heard this on this show, privately, when you have dinner with people? if you look at the poll in new hampshire, maybe they do have concerns about his age, 94% of democrats say they will vote for joe biden. there is your answer. they believe he is the guy, in the absence of someone else coming along, they may not be thrilled or energized by him, but they're going to vote for him, especially if he is running against donald trump. jonathan lemire, there are concerns about the president's age, but he has the democratic support. 12-point margin, it's a

snapshot, a moment in time. even republicans appear to be fishing around if you look through the numbers. they're not thrilled with the idea of donald trump being the nominee. >> yeah, it feels like every few weeks, every few months, the talk about president biden and his weaknesses for next year picks up again, and you're reminded when we see polls like this, legislation done, actually, he's in pretty good shape going into next year. of course, there are, as you say, willie, those concerns about his age. that's top of mind for many, many voters. but the poll is interesting here. first on the republican side, the implosion of ron desantis, who has slid to fifth. that continues to -- his campaign shows no signs of reversing the free fall. some republicans looking around. haley picked up points. christie does well in that state, though not others, showing perhaps a little softness for trump. in terms of the trump/biden

head-to-head for a general election, yes, one poll, but that's a pretty good number. new hampshire is not the battleground state a michigan, wisconsin, arizona is. it has been trending blue the last few cycles, but still, it is one of those where both campaigns are going to put money in, resources in. it is clear that joe biden goes into that state with a pretty significant lead. the theory of the case from this white house from the get-go is that next year, as this campaign ramps up and he starts hitting the road, that's when more americans will feel the benefits of these economic policies. they'll see the poll numbers pick up, americans feeling better about the progress made. also, we're going to spend a year watching donald trump sit in a courtroom, and that's going to turn off independents and swing voters. even if they don't love joe biden, they'll still come back to him. >> well, i mean, here's my theory of the case right now, if i thought joe biden was going to lose, i'd say joe biden is going to lose. my theory of the case all along has been, these democrats that

are saying, you know, oh, he's too old, james carville said a whole lot of bedwetting going on, that -- it's 2023. they can say that. as they get to 2024, closer to the election, it's more obvious donald trump could be the next president of the united states, i'd be really surprise fd the overwhelming majority of the democrats not only came home but they voted. on the other side, not the case. i told everybody this over the summer. i'm hearing from more and more friends and family members in suburbs say that they will never vote for donald trump. they'll never vote for joe biden ever, but they will do what republicans started to do in 2020. they'll vote for everybody on the ticket. they're not going to stay home. they're going to vote for everybody on the ticket, and they're going to leave the top line empty. that's what is going to end up getting donald trump at the end of the day in the suburbs of atlanta, in philly, new hampshire, suburbs of detroit,

go down the list. >> yeah. and dobbs, right? >> and dobbs. >> yeah. >> that's so important. that's the issue, if you look at what's happened over the past year. it's just shocking how huge of an earthquake abortion has been. >> independent women concerned about rights being taken from different states. that popped in a poll this week. it is very deep. like lemire says, the white house thinks people will feel better about the economy next year. that's the hope. >> i'm skeptical about that. interest rates goes up, gas prices going up. >> it's going up, joe. >> going to be tight. >> that is. but recall in the midterms, inflation was higher than it is now, right? it was not a great -- the economy was not doing great, and voters saw the threat that was posed to democracy. dobbs was a huge issue. you know, i just think fundamentally, and at this new hampshire poll, yeah, it's one poll, but unh, cnn, this is a

legit operation. >> yeah. >> that state has been hearing a lot of anti-trump messaging, the messaging you'll hear on saving democracy. haven't been hearing a lot of dobbs. >> they're hearing about it from republicans. >> they're hearing about it from republicans, yeah. i hope chris christie will, when he's not the republican nominee, will continue to help make that argument. >> yeah, exactly. by the way, what you're hearing from jen, you'll hear more in her new podcast with claire mccaskill, how to win 2024. this is an msnbc original presentation, and it's good analysis with profanity that you will get between claire and jen. >> i like it, very good. >> it's a lot of fun. >> it's all claire. don't let the missouri thing fool you. >> already dubbed, willie, the howard stern of political analysis. >> wow. >> a delay? >> high praise. coming up, the planet had the hottest august ever,

prompting a dire warning from the u.n. secretary general. >> just a caveat here, the hottest summer ever. the hottest august ever. the hottest july ever. and the hottest june ever. >> ever. >> do we see a trend there, republicans? >> maybe. >> we'll talk about that with u.s. special presidential envoy for climate, john kerry, straight ahead on "morning joe." subway refreshed everything. and now, they're slicing their deli meats fresh. that's why the new subway series subs are proffered by this qb. and proffered by his old backup qb. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. have you been behind me this whole time? yep. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. hnow, there's skyrizi.e this whole time? ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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write it. >> the u.n. secretary general delivering a stern message to world leaders during a climate change summit in new york city this week. it comes as we are learning more about just how hot the last few months have been historically. according to the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, june, july and august were the warmest, hottest those months have ever been globally since the group was founded 174 years ago. in the united states, this august was the ninth warmest on record, but the hottest ever for florida, mississippi and louisiana. last month, surface sea temperatures hit a high for the fifth month in a row. this is here. >> bad news, especially in hurricane season. >> this is real. >> it's bad news year round. let's bring in now special presidential envoy for climate, former secretary of state, john kerry. want to talk about that in a minute. couple questions for you.

we were talking when we were in normandy, 75th anniversary of d-day, and walking through that cemetery of those fallen american soldiers. it was so extraordinarily moving. i can't help but think back to all of us walking through there. back in 2019. contrast that with the speaker of the house who is afraid to even be seen in public with a freedom fighter like za snmz. >> zelenskyy. >> it's dramatic, joe, and sad. i think everybody understands that president biden has really done a remarkable job of bringing nato together. and we really need, all of us a. we see the challenges to democracy. most importantly, the implications of ukraine, you know, there are downstream

impacts if we did not do what we're doing today. the stakes in terms of foreign policy, in terms of relationships, america's word, our commitment to freedom, the meaning of freedom, everything is on the line in ukraine. you can't allow an illegal, grotesque criminal, you know, crossing an international border and attacking a country simply to change the border and take part of that country. i mean, that's what we stood up against all of world war ii, all the memorials around washington and the world, to the heroism of that period of time, we need to reflect on that. >> you know, we just showed a poll out of new hampshire that shows joe biden ahead by a pretty good chunk right now. it's early, as you know. you've done this. you know this more than all of us do. jen brought up the fact you know new hampshire. you know what it takes to win in new hampshire. curious your thoughts about the truth, actually staying a step

ahead in new hampshire, from, let's say, larger states like florida or texas or california where you run 30-second ads and that's what people see. in new hampshire, it's neighbor to neighbor. >> people to people. >> church member to church member. >> well, as you know, i'm not in politics. >> i know. i just want to talk about the process, where maybe chinese religious cult websites may fool people in a lot of places, but in new hampshire, the truth has a running start, doesn't it? >> just as a generic comment, i love being in new hampshire and love being in iowa. the relationships that i built in those places during that time lasts today. i still hear from the mayor of manchester. it is incredibly personal. it is wonderful. it's what separates the united states from every other country in terms of our politics. it really is personal. you meet in the halls, stay up until 1:00 in the morning answering questions, hopefully until every question is asked.

it's a part of the process. it is a reaffirmation of the basics of politics. we'll see what happens. honestly, coming back to where we are here, if i may -- >> yeah. >> we like to keep you off track. >> so comfortable. >> yeah. >> purposefully diversion. >> exactly. >> nothing new on "morning joe." >> we're talking about the giants game, so, yeah, you better move fast. >> this is serious. what president biden has been doing with respect to climate is quite remarkable. you look at the inflation reduction act. i'm not here just to sort of, you know, be advertising or anything. >> right, but it was a massive, historic investment. >> it has set america up to lead. >> right. >> in our economic future, in ways people haven't yet fully tapped into. it's interesting. the transformation we're going through economically is

genuinely the largest economic transition since the industrial revolution. we're going to see unbelievable amounts of new jobs created. right now, there is a geothermal company where 60% of the company, which is fast growing, come out of oil and gas industry. you're seeing the transformation already taking place. >> yeah. >> international energy agency told us we're about to reach a terminal downward trend in the demand for fossil fuel. because of the amount of electric vehicles out there and the amount of, you know, renewable energy being deployed. so that is future, joe. it's absolutely cooked in now. ceos, companies around the world. we have 85 of the major corporations of america that have joined something that president biden started called the first mover's coalition. they are buying, willingly

paying a green premium, buying green products to second a message to the marketplace, a demand signal, that you can have green steel, have green cement. >> right. >> that is a transformation that's taking place. >> it's huge. mike, you get some of the top producers in the world, talk to them privately, and they'll tell you, we may have 20, 25 more years of oil. we have to race toward alternative energy sources. >> how are we doing in that? >> the race is on. >> any ceo in america, american company or global economy, recognizes reality, recognizes what is coming down the road. but we're going to need partners. my question to you is, you just recently returned from beijing. where is china in this? are they going to be with us, with the world, or against the world? are they going to be help or a hindrance? >> obviously, mike, we hope we'll be able to get somewhere with china in the next months. we're meeting. we've been having discussions.

i'm hopeful. we had meetings in new york. we'll be meeting in the next weeks. we don't know the answer completely, but we do know that china, right now, is out building everybody in renewable energy, and they're deploying the energy at home. literally, china is now deploying and manufacturing more than all the rest of the world put together. china made a decision. they've had people dying because of the floods in china. our hope is that we can depoliticize this issue at least. it is a universal threat. we all need to be engaged in this. we need china, and we hope to work with china. >> let's just be really blunt here. i understand when politicians are running for office, they have to bash china. i get it. that's what they're doing on the republican side, the democratic side. there's a lot to be really

concerned about with china. i'm as concerned as anybody else. but we really have no choice if we're talking about geopolitical stability, global economic growth for everybody. if we're talking about trade, the environment. we can't tell china to go to hell. we have to figure out how to make the relationship work for us, right? >> correct. that's why president biden has asked me, secretary blinken and secretary yellen and secretary -- i mean, you know, everybody has been engaged because the president understands that we have to find a way forward. now, that doesn't mean he's moved back on any tough policy that is appropriate. >> right. >> but his hope is, i think, and generally, and president xi and president biden may be able to meet and talk in the future, right now, we're laying the

groundwork to be able to cooperate to get this done. we can't get it done without china. china has to be at the table with us. we can't get it done, actually, without -- i just came back from africa, where we had the african summit. it was impressive, the degree to which the leaders of africa are stepping up. africa has an entirely different challenge than we do. a lot of them don't have electricity. they want to develop. there is a north-south tension that we must address intelligently, thoughtfully, to be able to help africa to get development but also not to do some of the things we did, which we now know are a problem. but africa is also only 3% of all emissions, joe. 80% of the emissions in the world come from 20 countries. >> what about china, india and united states? >> china is 30%. united states is 10% and going down. india is about 7%. >> i want to get to richard, but

i just ask to -- i just want to underline this because i had a ceo say this to me a couple weeks ago, and he's right. we bash this country so much. we hear republicans attacking the country for this, democrats say we're not doing enough there. when it comes to emissions, united states the last 15 years has done a pretty damn good job, haven't we? >> yes. but we need to do better. >> i completely agree. >> but, yes, we have. a lot of effort has gone into transitioning out of coal. you're not going to see a new coal plant built in the united states now. people are transitioning into alternatives. the fastest growing job in the united states a couple years ago was wind turbine technician. the third fastest growing job was solar panel installer. that's happening now. there is a massive -- it's about $1.7 trillion of venture capital

moving into the sector. there is amazing stuff happening. for the first time in a few years, genuinely, i'm optimistic that we could win this battle. but if we do the things we have to do. this meeting in dubai, the u.n. meeting when we all come together, this is going to be one of the most important. we do have oil and gas at the table right now. we need to get oil and gas be part of the solution. we don't win without that either. >> richard, people aren't investing in alternative energy sources to feel good about themselves. it's what i try to explain to people. if you don't like what a corporation is doing, it's not because they're trying to be good guys, good women. they're trying to make money. they respond to the shareholders, and that's what's happening here. the investments going into this area, this is not a feel good investment. this is about the bottom line and being a part of the future.

>> can i share something with you on that? the shipping, we've started the shipping challenge. we have the largest container shippers in the world. msc, yara. they're building carbon-free ships. that has taken hold, you know, around the planet. there is a massive shift in shipping. on the amazon, we met with president lula the other day. president biden agreed with him that there is an incredible ability for us to be able to cooperate to deal with the amazon, but also with the larger development issues of how brazil can have longevity in the transition. you know, i see a host of things happening. nuclear, i was just in romania, where we are helping the romanians to develop small reactors. westinghouse is building four nuclear plants. your brother knows well about that. >> yeah. >> so there's just an amazing

amount of economic energy right now. and the progress being made even in something like fusion, which has been 30 years away. >> down the road. >> yeah. now, people are really beginning to see the potential of a prototype. that's a game-changer. >> that's exciting. >> there are exciting things. >> we just had the g20. not a lot got accomplished there. just this week in new york. you mentioned the cop-28 meeting in dubai. what do you think is realistic that, in a hard way, can be accomplished? i know you're optimistic about the long run. what about the short and medium run, what can we get done this time? >> at this cop, there are three things that are already baked in. we have what's called a global stock take, which is a report card on how is everybody doing? that report card is going to hold people accountable. it'll hold them up to public scrutiny. we have a loss and damage fund which has to be delicately managed. it is being managed right now. i think we will do what we've set out to do, which is come up

with a way to help those. yesterday, i met with the pacific island states, sitting around the table. our nation states, which are worried about what happens if their island disappears, and what happens to their statehood? do they no longer be a member of the u.n.? where do their people go? how do they do? these are really big challenges. these folks are on the front line of the disaster that is unfolding in front of everybody's eyes in the world. so, at cop, we'll have the ability to raise ambition significantly, and have a new finance mechanism with all the multilateral development banks, with the private sector. no government has enough money to get this done. we need the private sector at the table. that is happening now. you see more and more entrepreneurs putting money into innovation and creativity. >> special presidential envoy for climate, john kerry, thank

you. as always, great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> richard haass, thank you, as well. always good to see you. >> giants? >> we ran out of time. we can't talk about the giants. >> really? >> too bad. >> not a lot to talk about. >> or the yankees. >> it's not like the patriots are so great. still ahead -- >> mike and i are completely out of talking about our teams. >> there's no reason. >> there's always next year. >> there's next year. >> always next year. >> still ahead, amid the dysfunction on capitol hill over funding the government, a house republican is praiing nancy pelosi. >> what? >> we'll play the comments. plus, new york governor kathy hochul will be our guest this morning on the big development concerning migrants being sent to new york. also ahead, quote, so much for biden the bridge president. john leibovich will -- >> i think his name is mark. >> yeah. what is going on? >> coming to john. >> mark and john, the leibovich

brothers will be here to explain the new piece for "the atlantic." we're back in 90 seconds. oh, oh, oh...i'll be the judge of that. oh, that's nice... oh!! searchable, verified reviews. that's better than the ham, and i've never said that. booking.com booking.yeah

ukraine said -- >> speaker? >> i have my questions, my doubts right now, because i'm seeing, we need leadership, ma'am. we don't need someone to say, we have 218 votes or whatever that jumps on the train after it leaves the station. we need some people. speaker pelosi, for instance,

i'll give ya, you know, i don't agree with her ever, hardly on anything, but she was pretty successful in her -- in the way she did it. she put an issue out amongst her caucus. she met with them. she got -- she figured out what they wanted, then they put it on the floor and passed it. they rallied around it. a lot of work goes into that, but we're not seeing that. i'm not seeing that work right now. it's very disappointing to me. >> house republican with praise for speaker emerita nancy pelosi. >> that's the thing, willie. if something was going on the floor when nancy pelosi was speaker of the house, it was passing. >> right. >> people said, do they have enoughvotes? i'd ask, did nancy put it on the floor? if the answer is yes, then, yes, it's going to get done. all this squabbling going on, people playing the cheap sheets on the republican party, it is

amateur hour. >> they're running the show, that tiny group, five, seven, ten, whatever the number is of house republicans are absolutely running the show. you have kevin mccarthy, the speaker of the house, who is the leader of that body, saying these guys just want to burn the house down. they don't want to get anything done. he is complaining to the media about the caucus over which he is supposed to have some control. again, go back to january. this group of republicans says, we gave you the votes, put you over the top on the 15th vote to make you speaker of the house. do as we say. we also should point out, they've all left for the weekend. the government shutdown could happen a week from tomorrow, saturday at midnight. everybody is gone for the weekend, not back until next week. the clock is ticking down to a matter of days with no sign of progress here. >> jen palmieri, mike barnicle still with us. joining the conversation, we have professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr., and the host of the podcast "on

brand with donny deutsch," donny deutsch is with us. and staff writer at the "atlantic" mark leibovich joins us now. >> where is john? >> i have to follow him. >> where is your brother? >> okay. >> i haven't seen him in a while. you know, we were bar mitzvahed together. john leibovich isn't here. >> the last time. >> good to see you, mark. >> eddie, good to see you. how are the princeton tigers doing in football? >> tigers are doing good. but i'm on leave so -- >> you don't know? >> no. >> you're like, it's great. >> the quakers. >> penn patriots? >> quakers. >> how are the quakers doing? >> doing okay, i guess. i haven't been there this year. >> you're not following 'em. >> senior year in college, we went to the final four, believe it or not, ivy league school went to the final four. >> of what? >> basketball. ncaa. it was magic and larry and the

penn quakers. >> was it the penn quakers? >> '79. >> wow. >> all right. >> long time ago. all right, a new survey -- [ laughter ] >> just fun factoids. >> president biden is leading former president trump in a hypothetical rematch. the latest cnn/university of new hampshire poll finds potential 2024 voters in the state would back biden, 52%. 40% would vote for trump. 8% are either unsure or would back someone else. it is also worth noting that 94% of democrats in the state say they would back biden against trump, while 79% of republicans say they'd support trump. >> yeah. donny, we were talking last hour. again, it's early. this could be an outlier, but if you look at what happened in '22 and '20, couple things are going to happen. one, democrats are always going

to come home when donald trump is the alternative. and they're not walking out of the voting booth and say, i'm going to leave that top line emp empty. they'll aggressively vote against donald trump. not so with the republicans. it's not just anecdotal. you heard it, saw it in '20. we saw what happened in '22. no red wave. a lot of people concerned with who donald trump was getting behind in '22. they left the top line open in '20. you see it there, a lot of republicans in new hampshire, and suburbs of atlanta, people told me, they're not voting for him. they're not voting for biden, but they're not going to vote for him. you get enough of the under votes, that gives you the election. >> yeah. i'll bed wet for a second. >> okay. actually, please don't. >> wow. >> on set?

>> look, show me the suburban voter that left trump and is going back. i still just get so nervous. i don't want -- >> about what? let me walk you through this. >> something to be worried about? >> yes. >> i've seen advertisements. >> people are voting for trump? come on. >> if you look at the history of authoritarianism in the world, it always happens when there is a refugee problem, migrants. >> let me give you data. >> i want to scare them. >> data. in '18 -- and i agree with you. i've always said this, i'm a lot more conservative on immigration than even my republican brothers and sisters were when i was in congress. i think it's not fair if somebody is trying to get their family over from pakistan, they have to wait eight, nine years, play by the rules, but if you walk across the border, you can be a member of this country the next day. or you have a shot at being -- you're at least in this country. it's not fair. we have to be fair. we also need a lot more immigrants. we need a lot more workers.

talk to any small family business, any small family restaurant, any small family hardware store, talk to the tech companies that are in america, they'll say, why are we sending back the smartest people in the world who come here to get phds and advanced degrees, why are we letting them start businesses in new delhi instead of north carolina? you go, that's a great question. that said, i'm with you. i'm with you on all this. but, remember, 2018, donald trump sending troops to the border. fox news talking about the leprosy caravancaravans. your child is going to walk down the street, and the left arm is going to fall off because of the immigrants. nothing happened. democrats won huge. '20, democrats won despite the fear mongering. 2022, same thing. i agree with you, this is an important issue. but this is an important issue that people in new york city and los angeles and other cities are just discovering right now.

again, i don't think it has the political punch people think it does. >> i feel something different in the streets of new york, there's a fear. >> do you think biden may only get 78% on the upper west side? >> what happens, scaring the su. i hear from suburban friends on what's happening, it's coming to me. >> right. >> i just want the democrats to be scared. >> democrats will always be scared. no worry. i promise you that. >> i just -- my tummy gets nervous. >> the big problem, joe, i would submit on the migrant issue is, it's a visual issue. it has less to do with where you live, whether manhattan, the streets are crowded with migrants sleeping on sidewalks or filling up hotels. it has less to do with that than if you're in paducah, kentucky, and you see the people crushing the border, coming across the

border, and automatically relate it to your house. if you want to come into my house, knock and ask. want to come into my country, ask. they have the feeling that no one is asking, they're just flowing in here. >> the thing is, eddie, it's how long it's been going on. it's uncontrollable. look at the pictures every day, and there are thousands of people streaming across. we keep going back, and i'll say the same thing. illegal border crossings were at their lowest point when barack obama was president of the united states. so this isn't a republican or democratic thing. illegal border crossings were at their lowest point in 50 years, half a century, when barack obama was president of the united states. a lot of economic factors, geopolitical factors, some mistakes by joe biden early on in the messaging sent. a lot of this is happening, but it's out of control. we have to figure out how to control it. i mean, we've got to be able to

control our own borders. >> so i would want a distinction between the issue you're talking about in terms of immigration, questions of fairness and people entering illegally and folks entering according to the rules and the cultural question. immigration has always carried with it with undertone. who are we as a nation? think about immigration policy from 1790 to today, right? the idea is, who do we take ourselves to be? if we think of the immigration question in relation to the undertone, the undertow of our debates right now, the great replacement theory, this is just one feature of we're losing the idea that america is this white nation. so when you get that mixed this this, you have what donny is worried about. separate it from policy. oftentimes, they're collapsed. even when you make the case, you're to the right of some of your friends, even when you make the case, it gets read as, oh,

this is this kind of racialized argument thing. we need to figure out how to distinguish it. >> two things can be true at one time. democrats have to be able to say this. we're a nation of immigrants. >> right. >> we are a nation of immigrants. we celebrate it. we need workers, small businesses need workers. tech companies need workers. america needs more workers. so we need to have an orderly immigration process. by the way, it's not going to be easy, but we can't sit back and let thousands and thousands and thousands of people stream across the borders every day, right? can't you say both of those things at the same time? >> at the same time, underneath it, there is a debate happening around the immigration act of 1965. >> right. >> how it shifted, how it changed the nature of the country. people wanting to go back to the johnson/reid act of '24, written by the klan, basically.

>> right. >> we have to disentangle this so we can, shall we say, deal with the question on the table that's really on the table. >> right. willie, it's so interesting, even when donald trump was, you know, right after he got elected, you look at the numbers of his immigration policies, extremely unpopular. 30%, 35% of people maybe supported the so-called muslim ban. very small number supported the wall. i mean, i understand and agree with everything that eddie is saying, but i will say, that's boiled down to about 30%, 35% of america. you ask a ton of republicans, and i've been talking to them this summer, they're like, "we need more workers. we need people to work in restaurants. i need workers that will work in an ice cream shop. i need workers to work in a grocery store. i need workers that will work in a hardware store." that's all we hear. and so you even have republicans

that want immigrants to come in, get work visas and start working. >> yeah. that's been going on for a couple summers. sure you've felt it, too. i have two teenagers. you sit at the restaurant. the owner is like, how old are you? can you work? >> serious. >> businesses truly need workers. they can't stay open. but this is obviously an issue that donald trump is leaning into. if you watch other networks, this is the focus, along with hunter biden. and it is a real problem. there is a crisis at the border. there is data that supports that, that border apprehensions are nearing records again after kind of ebbing over the last couple of months. it is here. it is real. we'll talk to new york governor kathy hochul about this issue coming up in our next block. let's turn to mark leibovich. mark leibovich has a piece in "the atlantic," titled, "so much for biden the bridge president." mark writes this, quote, in retrospect, joe biden probably wishes he'd never uttered those words in public.

"look, i view myself as a bridge, not as anything else," biden said at a rally in detroit. if you paid attention to the future president's remarks at the time, they appeared consistent with a prevailing assumption about his campaign, that biden was runnings an emergency stopgap option. once the emergency, donald trump, was dealt with, the old pro was expected to make way for that entire generation. perhaps biden's best reason for running again in 2024 or defense against suggestions of a bait and switch is this, he probably did not expect trump to still be here, nor did the rest of us. politicians who know biden well say if he were convinced trump were vanquished, he'd feel he completed his mission. david ignatius wrote in response to the, please go away, joe." in other words, meet the new justification, same as the last one. it's probably as strong a rational at any for biden to

attempt this, except that it's getting old and so is the bridge, end quote. mark, this is a case that the president has been making just this week in new york at private fundraisers. he did one on broadway, if he said, if i don't win, if we don't keep donald trump out of the white house, we're not going to recognize our country. democracy will be destroyed. he's going to talk, of course about those aout the economy, has a case there. really, the subtext is, i've beaten this guy once. i can do it again. you need me here. >> that's 100% the subtext and the text at some point. what i wanted to point out in this piece is that, look, this was joe biden's strongest argument, certainly in 2020. he really, really leaned into the idea that, you know, he was a break glass in case of emergency option. he probably was the one best suited to, in the primary field in 2020, to beat trump. he did.

he calmed the country down. that was his mission, a one-two, get rid of this guy, calm the thing down. and he did it. a lot of people were expecting that once the job was done, he'd give the second part of the bridge speech, which was, okay, i'm -- maybe in 2023, march or april of 2023, say, you know, the bridge is still -- there's more to do, but my role in this is done. we have these great candidates. let's throw it open. the expectation of a lot of his voters in 2020 was that that was going to happen, this was a short-term solution. is this argument going to be as effective as it was four years ago. >> i had a snappy tweet last night to you. >> you did, jennifer. >> wow. >> i did. >> it stings. >> he backed right down, which never happens with mark leibovich. i said, it's a long bridge and it is because the water is so rocky.

i think that -- >> very poetic. >> beautiful. >> it doesn't quite work if i don't really think about it, but -- because, you know, you can have rocky water and not have the bridge long, but still. >> joe biden is like a bridge over troubled water. >> there you go. the water is super troubled still. i mean, it just feels undone to me, you know? there is something existential, and it is probably not an accident that it is two older white men sort of battling out the end of this era, where we're trying to imagine democracy in a new country that is not going to be majority white, right? i feel that is what this battle is, that it's still being done. the job is not finished. he talks about it in terms of paid leave policy, but, really, it's that we haven't extinguished this guy. >> threat to our democracy. >> mark, the threat could be

greater today than it was in 2020. >> absolutely. >> the bridge is still needed. what say you? >> i feel it is still needed and the job is never finished, obviously. >> why did you even write this article, if you were going to back down so quickly on twitter and on the show? why did you even write this article? >> in fairness -- >> can somebody get jeff on the phone? >> john. >> in fairness -- >> really sorry he took you on. >> you leave him alone. >> in fairness, i was watching football when jen came out on her savage attack, and i didn't have time to deal with it. i have a lot of work to do during the day. >> that is true. >> no. so, i mean, i would say this. the work is never done. i think -- look, i want to say, i mean, yes, there are a lot of stories out there he's too old, whether he should be doing this again. what the poll numbers are, which

is tepid at best, even among democrats and independents, whether he should run again. they have to be concerning. but, yes, the question is, you know, if you're going to argue maybe there was a bait and switch, you could argue that joe biden, like the rest of us, probably thought if donald trump lost in 2020, he would go away the way george herbert walker bush or jimmy carter or any one-term president did. it's not like democrats were sort of, you know, going down hat and hand to beg jimmy carter to run. yeah, this is unprecedented, especially given how trump went out. you don't expect this to happen, so we have this existential crisis. you know, he said, all right, why not me? it might be a strong argument. the question is, you know, the age and, you know, the way he is presenting himself now is obviously a problem. >> all right. staff writer for "the atlantic," fiercely defending his thesis

this morning on "morning joe." it got personal. >> tepidly. >> i think it was worth it. mark leibovich. >> thank you, ted. >> ahead on -- >> i wanted to bring this up. >> oh, god. >> i have people telling me, eddie glaude jr., he's old. you know, you know, no, i want them to say camila -- kamala harris' name. he's old, and they're looking at -- i'm like, no, tell me. >> what about kamala? >> what about her? >> well, there is this undercurrent, like she's black and a woman, and that's why people don't like her because she's a vice president. what are we going to do? we need to change her. i just go, where were you when dan quayle was vice president? where were you? nobody remembers this. george h.w. bush buried,

sainted, like, one of the greatest foreign policy presidents of the second half of the 20th century, that guy in the '80s was destroyed by the press. destroyed by the press. what about al gore? everybody made fun. i remember, who was the actor? who was that, the republican actor? tennessee. i can't remember. >> fred. >> i can't even remember. >> can't believe it. >> fred was at the correspondent's dinner and said, i just watched. very excited. i was in the cloak room, man, you have to watch out where you're putting your coat racks. i ran into the wooden coat rack, ah, and then i turned around and he sticks out his hand and goes, "hello, i'm al gore." invented the internet, you know, all these other things. the buddhist, was it the buddhist temple? >> mm-hmm. >> every vice president, we hear

this all the time. change your vice presidents. i'm here to say, it's total nonsense. nobody has ever voted against any presidential candidate because of who their vice president was. if you look at kamala's numbers, they're not that far off from where every other mocked and ridiculed and loathed vice president has been. >> agreed. remember, potato with dan quayle? >> exactly. >> you're absolutely right. i think, going back to our earlier conversation, the cultural existential anxiety in the country makes this particular issue a little bit different, right? the idea that the possibility of a black woman being the president, right, enters into that kind of swirl of grievance and concern. even david ignatius' controversial piece, karen bass, to keep it from reading it as racial, but we know the real

worry here is, you know, a black woman. that's the real concern. >> jen. >> the other thing, first of all, the notion that he would not keep her is ridiculous. a, it's admitting defeat. it is admitting a mistake. you'd never do that. also, i mean, black women voters, best voters in america. all of a sudden, everyone would rush to her side. black women, white women, everybody would be on her side. but, you know, i traveled with her recently to iowa. i don't think mike pence had people show up, you know, cheering throngs showing up at the airport to greet him. >> right. >> or standing ovations or big lines at hbcus. that doesn't happen to other vice presidents. the other thing that people, you know -- when biden isn't doing well in polls, it's young voters and voters of color. that is why. where is kamala harris uniquely able to speak and motivate voters? it's that group. that's why you see her on the

campaign trail talking. it's about dobbs. it's about voting rights. >> exactly. >> it's about the economic record. >> dobbs, dobbs, dobbs. >> when i went with her with des moines, it was about dobbs because they had just passed a six-week abortion ban. you want to talk about, like, passion and an audience. >> she can speak to that beautifully, effectively, aggressively, and in a way people, at this point, the majority of americans are very concerned about this issue. >> you look at what has to has been for this re-elect, she's arguably the most valuable running mate that a president has had in a while. >> let me tell you, you talk about david ignatius. obviously, david is not writing this because she's a black woman. >> no. >> oh, my gosh, no. >> david is hearing this because everybody else is worried that she's a black woman, however, and that america is not going to vote for a black woman. a lot also has to do with the fact that inside washington, people said she wasn't doing a

good job, wasn't connecting politicly. when you say what i'm about to say, people laugh at you, but maybe those people should watch tape and go to some of her events. she is improving. she is connecting. she was stiff, and she was the first couple years in a lot of situations, but you look -- like you said, you look at her events now. she understands, and dobbs played a role in this. she's getting far more comfortable out there. first of all, she's not going anywhere. secondly, she's not going to hurt joe biden. in fact, she may help joe biden. >> yup. >> thirdly, i would just say, you know, stay tuned. >> right. >> people are not going to vote for donald trump because they're afraid of kamala harris, right? >> no. look at the tape from hampton university. it was amazing. she's going to be at my belov ed morehouse september 26th, and people are excited. you're right, where is she deployed? what is she doing? >> we need to follow into that.

still ahead on "morning joe," the biden administration is granting special status to nearly half a million venezuelan migrants who are already in the u.s., and in new york city, it means some 60,000 will be eligible to legally apply for work and move out of taxpayer-funded shelters. we'll talk about the impact with new york governor kathy hochul, straight ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

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nationals who came to this country before july 31st now will be eligible for a work permit for 18 months. democratic controls stat states cities have pressure to do more as systems are overwhelmed by new arrivals. officials are reporting a surge in migrant crossings at the southern border, as we were discussing earlier. mexico's president says about 142,000 people tried to enter the u.s. illegally in the first half of this month alone. that's on pace to hit a record high for the month. now, the white house is deploying 800 troops to help control the crossings. joining us now, democratic governor of new york, kathy hochul, who spoke to president biden about the issue this week. governor, good morning. good to have you with us. let's begin with the new work permits. >> morning. >> nearly half a million, as i said, venezuelan nationals will be allowed to work. that is good news for you why? how do you explain that?

is it because now they can go out and support themselves rather than being on government shelters and support? >> that's exactly what it is. i have been advocating for this since the summer of 2022, directly with the president and the white house, joined by mayor adams, majority leader schumer, senator gillibrand and our delegation of democrats. i want to put a caveat, the democrats have supported this. here's why. these individuals came here in search of what all of our immigrant parents, grandparents and great grandparents came for, a shot at a better life. it all comes down to whether or not you can work. we've had this untenable situation, where because of the city's right to shelter agreement, these individuals have been housed at taxpayer cost but not able to work. we have been saying, put them to work. we have a crisis right now, a worker shortage crisis in the state of new york. our state is on fire, but we have over 460,000 empty jobs

right now. we have the ability to connect this, a humanitarian crisis, address that by addressing the opportunity to create work, and then i have employers all over the state of new york. republicans, democrats, independent, unaffiliated who are salivating, happy to get the chance to get workers, reopen their restaurants and hotels and the resorts, work in nursing homes and to work in hospital kitchens. there's a demand here. we also have to be certain that this is not leading to a pull of attracting more people because our shelters really are at capacity right now. so i'm really grateful to the biden administration for listening to us. they want to be partners. but what's missing in this equation are republicans who will get back to washington, stop talking about shutting down the government, roll up their sleeves and work with the bid administration for a comprehensive immigration policy that starts at the border, is common sense, and will do this in a more orderly fashion.

but this is a very good news dynamic for us this week. we were waiting for this. we were hopeful for this. the president told me this week it would happen. >> we should say again, to underline, you have to have arrived by july 31st. they don't want this to be an invitation for more people to come because of it. you touched on this a bit, governor, and we saw some numbers on the screen while you were talking, but you are in the state of new york and in the city of new york at a crisis point, a breaking point. we have heard the frustration from new york city mayor eric adams, at president biden himself, at this administration, at you, oftentimes, because he wants to move some of the migrants up state. how do you describe the depth of the crisis in new york and in other places across the country? >> well, it's being distributed fairly. we should have a decompression border in mexico or right across the border, where decisions are based on where there's capacity, where there's space. for many cities, many states not

housing any of these migrants. because new york city has had this pull, this 40-year-old right to shelter, people have come to new york city. that's another area the mayor and i need to look at together, and we are looking at it, and trying to figure out a way we can say, this was intended to help homeless people stay off the streets, help families, but it was never intended to be an unlimited, universal right, an obligation to shelter the entire world. that's the way it's been interpreted. once that gets fixed, as well as this opportunity to get the venezuelans to work, it should take a lot of pressure off. we really need to stop the incoming. we're still seeing about 3,000 a week. that's unsustainable. we're working so hard, spending millions of dollars, state dollars, to build shelters to house 3,000 here, 2,000 here, 1,000 here. it's still not enough. so the word has to get out that new york has always been that place of welcoming immigrants. all of us came from somewhere,

parents and grandparents, but there is a limit to who we can house at this time. we need the rest of the country to step up. most importantly, it starts at the border with enforcement, and it also has to start in washington with common sense immigration reform, which i know we're capable of. as a young attorney for senator moynihan in 1986, i worked on the last major immigration reform, and it was a bipartisan compromise. that's the last time we really saw statesmanship in washington, and that's what i'm calling for now. >> governor, donny deutsch. nice to talk to you. we were talking earlier hour that the real hot button issue that the democrats are going to face, that biden is going to face, and you'll face when you come up for re-election, is this migrant issue. it is at a crisis point, as willie said. and it does not feel like anything is getting done. it feels like it is getting worse. so what are you going to do, you specifically as the governor of the state, to help this problem? this is something that is going to really, really affect the democrats.

i feel something palpable in new york. i feel fear. i've never felt it before. i hear it from everybody. what are you going to do? >> well, i feel the same thing. i see it and hear it. i was on the subways two days ago. people are talking about this. but there is an answer. as i mentioned, it's two-fold. one is more enforcement at the border because people are coming here illegally. even just saying here seeking asylum, without basis for that, it'll take five to seven years to determine whether or not someone is here legally through asylum. at that point, then they have to go back if they're denied. it's a system that's broken there. also, in washington, we need help with comprehensive immigration reform. the republicans have to stop playing political games with this. they have to get back to work and do the right thing. but what i can do in the state is continue to support the city. we have allocated $1.7 billion this year, and we're also using that to track the individuals who arrived, know who they are, try to help them go elsewhere if

they can, try to get the venezuelans into the jobs if they're eligible. i've stood up a whole of government approach to start really managing this and saying, there's jobs in this community, employers want them here. i agree, this is a political vulnerability, but it doesn't have to be. democrats have answers, but as long as republicans see they can make gains with this, that they can score more points with this, then they're not willing to come to the table and actually do what americans want, which is two parties working together to solve problems. that shouldn't be such a radical concept. so that's what we're facing now, is this gridlock that is driven by the republicans who are enjoying this spectacle, who have no intention of helping solve it, so this lies on their feet, as well. >> governor, as you know better than most, there are several elements of the migrant issue affecting new york state and new york's communities, as well as other states and other small

communities. but one of the elements that could trigger really lasting damage and feelings, lingering feelings among the people it effects, is the migrants come with children. children have to attend school. they are put into school systems, sometimes sit in classrooms that are already overcrowded, and they take their problems home to their parents, telling about overcrowded classes and not getting enough attention from teachers. what, if anything, can be done about that very real, live issue? >> i will tell you right now, the children who have arrived and have been embraced by the new york city public school system, and i credit the teachers, the administrators, the adams administration for making this work, and also the teachers union. michael stepped up and said, these are our children. these children are literally traumatized. what they have been through, what they have seen on this journey is nothing that a child

should ever have to experience. i'm a mother. this is personal to me. i commend the school districts who have embraced them, and we have some upstate, as well, in albany, and upstate new york, they've been welcomed. so it is a challenge for our system. that's why the volume has to slow down and eventually cease. we can handle what we have now, but if it continues at the rate it is going, then it's not -- there's not going to be a thoughtful answer to this because we will have the overcrowding. it'll affect the quality of education for everyone. so that's also, as you mentioned, part of the collateral damage of a country that does not have immigration policies that are actually functioning. the only way they can change is by congress. unfortunately, republicans control the house, and they refuse to do anything. that's the direct line from the failure in washington to get this done and what is happening to these innocent children right now being taken care of by really dedicated teachers in new york city. >> democratic governor of new

york, kathy hochul, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> all right. take care. coming up, one of detroit's big three puts a new offer on the table for auto workers. we'll have the latest on those ongoing negotiations. and before we go to break, willie geist, what do you have planned for "sunday today?" >> we got a good one again this weekend. i think, mika. my guest is ryan seacrest, the busiest man in show business. he has about 1,000 jobs, three radio shows, hosts "american idol." he just got the gig, he'll take over for pat sajak on "wheel of fortune," talking about vanna white announcing she's coming back. great conversation. also using his platform to open the seacrest studios and children's hospitals. he opened another one this week here in new york city, where kids who have to have long stays in a hospital can do radio shows and podcasts. it's all broadcast up to their rooms. a great guy who has known what

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i had a stroke 18 months ago, you know, and i have lost my ability to fully process language. because i live in a political environment, i was ridiculed and made fun of because i wasn't able to process things sometimes and say things. so i'm so sorry, i'm sure many of you had to go through this kind of thing. you know, i was lucky that i was -- i was lucky enough to go through my life, the vast majority, without this disability that i have. but, again, i can't imagine the challenges, and i admire, you know, everyone that has to kind of live with these struggles. >> i'll tell ya, john fetterman.

yeah, democratic senator from pennsylvania. jen, i interviewed him a year ago, i guess about a year ago. he's improved significantly. >> yeah. >> so much better. >> significantly, but he is still using -- i actually didn't realize this. when i do see him, he does seem so engaged, but he still has to use the transcription app, engages in that. >> yeah. >> and seems emotionally, mentally strong, really. >> yeah. they showed that during the hearing, but he does, he has to do that. how hard it would be, mike, to be a politician and, when you're out in the hall, i mean, so much happens when -- my gosh, 50% of our work would happen when the bell would ring, we'd walk from the offices to the floor, and that's where half your day is, hey, what are you doing, yeah, i got this deal going. why don't we do this on this legislation? i really need this speech nourishment for my district. what do you need for yours? let's figure it out.

that's 50%, 60% of business. he can't do that because, you know, he's got to read it. it's been a challenge. i commend him, he's fought like hell. fought like hell to get through it. >> huge props to john fetterman for the courage and the dedication and the discipline to overcome what could have been a crippling and career-ending stroke that he had. >> would have been for most. >> it took him many, many months to get to the point where he is now, where he is understandable, where he fights every day for the people of pennsylvania. >> yeah. >> i just wish that senator fetterman wouldn't show up on the floor of the united states senate dressed like a slob, you know, wearing gym shorts and cut-off t-shirts. >> i don't know if he is wearing cut-offs. that looked like a step up from his hoodie. >> well -- >> i'm just saying. >> it's just -- >> i know, mike. >> i'll agree with mike. >> if i can make an announcement, the engineers at

x/twitter, if you can monitor mike barnicle's feed, it'll be burning up. now, we'll go to donny deutsch. >> i'll stand next to my friend. look, i'm a progressive guy, but there's certain decorum. fetterman has been a hero and everything you said, but, yes, show up dressed properly. i think there's nothing wrong with that. maybe i've come the old curmudgeon trail, like you. >> i get it. i get it. i get the decorum and the respect, but i think about the people who look like john fetterman, who live like john fetterman in america, and they see someone who looks like them that they can relate too in the united states senate. same way i feel about, like, younger, more i think that is a big deal, and that is worth it. and let me tell you something. people love that guy. i mean, in pennsylvania, the way they felt like they had his back and he had theirs, it's a good

connection to see someone that looks like you in the united states senate. eddie? >> some people have that taste. i'll give them that, but traditions are changing. >> maybe it's just me. >> we have known -- joe and i have known, and we've all known in a way, but joe and i have known intimately a guy who could not raise his arms above his shoulders to put a suit jacket on, or button his shirt, senator john mccain. he could have been more comfortable. he chose not to. >> i get that, mike, but the times are changing. i think jen's point is right. that really, really identifies with, like, working man's posture in the senate. >> i'm going to be herald ford jr. here and say i hear what mike's saying and i agree with him and i hear what eddie's saying and i agree with him. somebody's been kicked off the floor though. there's a reason why there's

decorum, and when people would snap at me, okay. >> it might be very hard to find -- >> i don't think you -- you keep the decorum. i understand what you are saying. for a lot of people especially in pennsylvania, we're sounding like we're from another era, another time, and we are. >> literally every single one of us. >> donnie, thank you so much. do you have any brand up brand down this week? >> where is it? >> this is the concept of all concept. >> my brand up, and i'm going to come clean. i did it in my podcasts. boy bands. brand up for boy bands. nsync is back. backstreet boys. i'm secure to say it. >> there's a podcast that focuses not on boy bands, but conversations that made the heart of the home. >> i'm so confused. michelle norris will join us with a look at her new

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personally and professionally. i'm already thinking of my mother's kitchen. what a mess. >> that was a mess. a different mother's kitchen. >> we're talking dead deer mixed with art tools. >> chain saws. >> i was going to say, you probably don't want that. >> michelle joins us now. we won't talk about mika's kitchen. >> i'm intrigued. >> that's crazy. >> she's worked and it was, like,, you know, basic stuff, but my grandma's kitchen in dalton, georgia was extraordinary, and it was. it was just -- it was an old house and we sat around there, and it was fried chicken and she would have fried apple pies and this much grease and take it out, and there was collared greens. >> now you're talking. >> i still all these years later, i can still remember that was the heart of the home, and we just loved spending our summers there. >> i bet you can smell it right now. you can feel it.

>> exactly. talk about your mom's kitchen. >> my mom is betty norris. she's probably watching us right now. >> hi, mom. >> good morning. her kitchen was organized. her kitchen was delicious. her kitchen was adventurous, and she was absolutely in charge. my dad cooked too. he actually was a cook in the military in the navy, so he knew how to cook also. she created a sense of adventure for us in the kitchen because she was -- this was before twitter and a lot of cooking shows and before the food channel, but she was trying things that were new. i grew up in minnesota so she was experimenting with different kinds of food. it created a sense of curiosity and culinary adventure. >> do you think one thing she or your father did that really take us back, that just sort eepitomizes that? >> she did fried fish. i grew up catholic in the

midwest. with collared greens, and some corn bread, and yeah. >> what about your dad? >> my dad -- everybody who was in the military -- that had a father in the military probably remembered the chipped beef. do you know what i'm talking about? nod your head before i even finished, and that was something he did. he also made a mean smothered chicken which was fried chicken which was smothered with gravy. >> oh, come on. you can't do that to me right now. >> i'm really hungry now. so you interview all sorts of people about their mothers' kitchens, and what have been some of the more exciting conversations or revealing conversations? >> well, the thing is you learn -- you're shaped so much by what happens in that room because a lot more than just food happens in the kitchen, right? it's where you have your loudest arguments. it's where you have your loudest laughter. it's where bills pile up on the

table. it's where you develop a real sense of identity, and so it's a way to learn something about people that you wouldn't know otherwise, like, how did they develop something? i knew this because the genesis for the idea came when i hosted a show called "all things considered," and i would ask it in the mic check, and people said, that's where i learned how to grow money. my mom fed this many kids, and watched her grow money. you learn people develop their personality. they're a middle kid and they have that middle kid personality for the rest of life. >> the rest of their life. >> the rest of their life. >> as someone who has covered politics a long time, we always talked about kitchen table issues and it's really interesting because you learn a lot about how people develop their ideas about not just their family, but america. talked to someone this week in an upcoming episode, grew up in

a small town or a factory town where the factories were c closing one by one by one, and watched a father drift into a space where he found it in politicians who were talking about people who were left behind by america. >> right. >> but then over time watched his dad and realized, wait a minute. people who are delivering that message, they don't have dirt under their fingernails. >> right. >> they're not working guys. they don't wear hoodies when they're out in the world. they're more like the boss' son than the people who -- and i thought, okay. that is the boss' son, you know, that's a conversation about the kitchen, but it explains so much about politics also, and the way people learn. people who come to america from distant lands and try to figure out, how do you become american or who gets to be american? watching their parents navigate that and figure it out. there are conversations about

fried pies and breakfast cereal, but it's much deeper. >> there's so much more, and you're right. i think about the kitchen and i think about when we would have supper. we called it supper and we ate supper around 5:00. family around the table, we would talk news and that was again where we saw the world, but you said something too that i thought that was so fascinating. we had our loudest arguments. my friend would call us the loud family. there was nothing mindful about my family. my mom and dad would be in the kitchen and they would just yell at the top -- and then, like, two seconds -- >> mary joe! george! i need a sandwich. >> they're right here. >> i want to make the fudge for the kids. okay. it was almost like a safe zone. kind of like "the bear" except safe. >> did your mom ever tell you, take it out of the kitchen? >> yeah. >> it almost feels like they knew that if you were in the kitchen, that's where you gave yourself permission to be loud,

but if you took it out of the kitchen, then it was a different emotional space so maybe people didn't act like that. a lot of things we also learn about women and a lot of people watching their mothers, you know, for some of us, we watched our mothers deal with feminism when it came along, and in some ways invalidated some of the choices they had made in their lives. a lot of women who realized they never reached their full potential not because they didn't have the talent, but because america wasn't ready to accept what they had to offer. >> we're two minutes past the top of the third hour of "morning joe." we're talking to michelle norris about her new podcast which is in collaboration between audible and higher ground, a media company founded by barack and michelle obama. in your debut episode, you spoke with the former first lady who shared personal memories about her father. let's take a listen. >> did your dad cook? did frazier robinson cook? >> occasionally. he cooked like a lot of men.

my husband's the same way. he can cook. how many times does he cook? not much. >> mr. obama cooks? >> oh yeah. yes. my dad made this wonderful deep dish pie. he would make his own crust, but he didn't cook often because he was the primary breadwinner and he was a shift worker, but when he cooked, it was special, and we all gathered round to watch dad peel the apples and make his little, you know, concoction to make the apples sweet. it was a very special thing when dad cooked. >> right, and michelle obama sharing that it was unusual when he cooked. back to your initial point because i'm going to reveal a family secret. even though any mother was quite ahead of her time and my father supported that in terms of both of their careers, her sculpting career, he could not make a cup of coffee. he could not work the microwave. he called it the micro. and so, i mean, my mother was able to push through those

challenges, but as you were saying, you learn a lot about sort of where feminism meets its match, sometimes in the kitchen. >> oftentimes in the kitchen and it's not just that we're watching mom cook because that's her expected role. >> right. >> it's also where people see mom actually trying to be a doctor, but she's not practicing, you know. mom has this ability to do more than maybe she was allowed to do and figuring that out, and also feminism comes along at a time where for some it was a moment for opportunity. for others, it was the train left and left them behind, and so, you know, the kitchen was a place that for some people also felt like drudgery. some people's mothers really hated to cook or honestly didn't cook that well, you know? >> oh, that's my kitchen. >> i'm a country boy from mississippi and i'm a mama's boy, and me and my brother, we know how to cook.

>> okay. >> we were up under our mothers. we were up under our mom, right? >> that's how you learn. >> every kitchen in my family, every kitchen had a special recipe. my great-grandmother, my grandmother, my mother, and they would all cook. this was a wonderful space to grow up in, and i'm so thrilled. talk about that episode. what was she doing in the kitchen? >> gayle king can't cook, but the kitchen is an important space. she can't cook, but her kids had to eat, so she would order takeout, but her mother, peggy, could throw down in the kitchen so she grew up with someone who absolutely knew how to cook, but she decided early on for, you know, reasons -- maybe it was her career. maybe she wasn't that interested in it, but she's very honest about that, that she'll say i can't cook. >> that sounds like a podcast right there. gayle king can't cook. >> that's hilarious.

>> one of the most interesting aspects of the kitchen, at least the kitchen i'm familiar with growing up, there's no tv in the kitchen. at least there wasn't. nobody's looking at their iphones in the kitchen because of the kind of meals that are served. there's a tendency to have dialogues that you wouldn't have around the table or any other room in the house. >> that's changed now, right? because people now bring their phones to the kitchen. my kids say, the phone eats first. they're taing pictures of whatever we're having. we used to put a basket. put your phones over there, you know, because we don't want the phones at the table. >> that's the play. >> you wonder how things have changed. there may have been a raid yes -- radio in the kitchen. then people now have televisions in the kitchen, and then you see big homes now, the island, the great room right next to the kitchen, and the kitchen is the center of the house and it's not

just where you cook, right? it's where you entertain, it's where you watch "morning joe" in the morning. it's where you watch serious television or watch football games with big spreads. the kitchen is an important gathering space. >> the new podcast is entitled "your mama's kitchen," conversations from the heart of the home. thank you so much. this is amazing. >> it's awesome. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. all right. the third hour of "morning joe," just a little bit late, continues now. >> he was strong on foreign policy and getting america's respect in the world. he was thin-skinned and easily distracted. he didn't do anything on fiscal policy, and really spent a lot of money, and we're all paying the price for it. he did do a better job than biden on the border, really

trying to corral that in and stop that. he used to be good on foreign policy, and now he has started to walk it back and get weak in the knees when it comes to ukraine. a terrible thing happened on january 6th, and he called it a beautiful day, and in the eyes of america, it was a terrible day. >> yeah. that's -- she got all that right, which i guess the reason why we're playing that clip is because republicans that are running for president other than chris christie and asa hutchinson don't usually say that, but she's saying it. >> republican presidential candidate nikki haley in new hampshire yesterday on a question on how trump's legacy will be remembered 100 years from now. it's quite a legacy. >> when you look at polls, don't expect a ten-point or 20-point

swing. .25, .5. here you have asa hutchinson. okay. not a lot to lose right now because he's so low in the poll. chris christie, focused on donald trump. now you have nikki haley coming in and telling the truth about donald trump, the truth that everybody knows. they know it, and, you know, that's three. sometimes mike pence is in that group too. that's significant. that's four more than did it over donald trump's four years in office. >> yeah, but still, nikki haley good for her. she did something yesterday that i can't understand why more of the candidates running against him for the nomination haven't done. if you are in a fight, what's the first instinct you have when someone throws a punch at you? you got to throw a punch back. >> right. >> nobody punches back. nikki haley punched back yesterday and it was effective to a certain extent. watching her it was effective.

>> it was kind of late and it took her a long time. that was a good clip, but in terms of breaking through to voters, that was, like, much -- she was making a nuanced argument. she should have been doing this consistently from the get go. >> from the beginning, she was, like, i don't kick sideways. i think the new hampshire poll, you know what new hampshire folks have been hearing? a lot of chris christie, right? so i think that may be the fact that you have republicans in new hampshire like chris christie -- that's his whole game, right? it's new hampshire, and making this really forceful argument against donald trump. that's probably effective too. >> in a state like new hampshire, you know who he was talking about? you can't lose people. in new hampshire, it goes town hall meeting to town hall meeting, church to church, school to school. so if somebody heard nikki haley saying what she said, and heard chris christie saying what she said, that's getting around when they're in church and the car line in school. did you see what nikki said at

the hall? did you see what she said last night at the lot? that does start to spread in new hampshire, and it starts to accumulate. >> you know, despite all the glittering media we have around the country in every state and the nation focusing on politics, new hampshire remains unique and it still goes back to mo running for president in the 1970s in new hampshire and he went into a barbershop and asked for his vote and he said, i haven't made up my mind about you. i've only met you twice. people meet everyone in new hampshire. if you go to new hampshire today and i was up there, you see signs of a christie candidacy that's alive in new hampshire because he's been up there so much. that's an old secret. it's not really a secret. you got to show up in new hampshire. >> yeah. >> for sure. >> when you show up, the word spreads. again, neighbor to neighbor, friend to friend, family to

family, and, you know, chinese religious cults, their websites have a lot less impact. >> right. >> than somebody talking to you, again at school or in a car line saying, hey. so and so is, like, down the street last night. this is what they said. >> here's that new survey of new hampshire voters which has president biden leading former president trump in a hypothetical rematch. the latest cnn university of new hampshire poll finds 52% of potential 2024 voters in the state would back biden while 40% would vote for trump. 8% say they are either unsure or would back someone else. >> willie, it's early. this could be an outlier, but i think we're going to see this time and again. we're going to see national polls and people are going to be freaking out and then we're going to see what people are saying in the suburbs and what people are saying in swing states like new hampshire and understand that joe biden is not buried quite yet. >> yeah.

he's not buried quite yet, and if you look inside that poll, there's been so much talk about joe biden's age and even democrats want somebody else to run and how many times have we heard this on this show privately when you have dinner with people? when you look at this poll in new hampshire, they have concerns about his age. 94% of democrats say they will vote for joe biden. there's your answer. i mean, he's -- they believe he's the guy in the absence of someone else coming along. they may not be thrilled. they may not be energized by him, but they're going to vote for him especially if he's running against donald trump, and jonathan lemire, you look inside this poll and there are some concerns about the president's age, but he definitely has democratic support and that 12-point margin, it's one snapshot, one moment in time. even republicans appear to be fishing around if you look through the names. they're not thrilled with the idea of donald trump even. that doesn't mean he won't win, but there are rising ideas in

new hampshire. the other candidates aren't as far back as in other state. >> it feels like every few weeks or months, the talk about president biden and his weaknesses for next year picks up again, and you're reminded when we see polls or pieces of legislation, he's in pretty good shape going into next year. of course, there are as you say, willie, those concerns about his age. that's top of mind for many, many voters, but the poll is interesting here. first on the republican side, the complete implosion of ron desantis who's slid all the way to fifth, that continues to -- his campaign shows no signs of reversing that free fall, and some republicans looking around. haley's picked up some points and christie though, in that state, but not others, and that shows a little bit of softness for trump, but in terms of a head to head re-election, that's a poll, but that's a good number. new hampshire's not a battleground state that a michigan or wisconsin or arizona or pennsylvania is. it's been trending blue the last two cycles, but still it's one of those where both campaigns are going to put money in.

they're going to put resources in, and it's clear that joe biden goes into that state with a pretty significant lead, and the theory of the case from the white house from the get go is that next year as the campaign really ramps up and he starts hitting the road, that's when americans will feel the benefits of these economic policies and they'll see the poll numbers pick up, and americans will be feeling better about the progress made and also we're going to spend a year watching donald trump sit in a courtroom, and that's going to turn off independents and swing voters and even if they don't love joe biden, they'll still come back to him. coming up, a live interview with condoleezza rice. she joins our conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." n straight ahead on "morning joe."

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our focus here is on climate solutions and our task is urgent. humanity has opened the gates of hell, but the future is not fixed. it is for leaders like you to write it. >> the u.n. secretary general delivering a stern message to world leaders during a climate change summit in new york city this week. it comes as we are learning more about just how hot the last few months have been historically. according to the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, june, july, and august were the warmest, hottest those months have ever been since the group was founded 174 years ago. in the united states, this august was the ninth warmest on record, but the hottest ever for florida, mississippi, and louisiana. last month, surface temperatures hit a record high for the fifth month in a row.

>> i would tell you that, and that is bad news in hurricane season. >> this is real. >> it's bad news year round. let's bring in special presidential envoy for climate, john kerry. i want to talk about all that in a minute, but we were talking before you came on the air, when you were over in normandy, the 75th anniversary of d-day and walking through that cemetery of those fallen american soldiers. it was extraordinarily moving and i can't help but think about us walking through there in 2019. >> yeah. >> and contrast that with the speaker of the house who's afraid to even be seen in public with a freedom fighter like zelenskyy. >> it's dramatic, joe, and it's sad. i think that everybody understands that president biden has really done a remarkable job of bringing nato together, and

we really need to, all of us as americans, focus -- i mean, obviously we see the challenges to democracy, but most importantly the implications of ukraine, you know, there are downstream impacts if we did not do what we're doing today, and you just -- the stakes in terms of foreign policy, in terms of relationships, america's word, our commitment to freedom, the meaning of freedom, everything is on the line in ukraine. you can't allow an illegal, grotesque criminal, you know, crossing the international border and attacking a country simply to change the border and take part of that country. that's what we stood up against all of world war ii and the memorials in washington to the heroism of that period of time. we need to reflect on that. >> we just showed a poll out of new hampshire that says joe

biden ahead by a pretty good chunk right now. it's early as you know. you've done this. you know all of this more than any of us do, but jen brought up the fact that you know new hampshire. you know what it takes to win in new hampshire. i'm curious about your thoughts about the truth, actually staying a step ahead in new hampshire for let's say larger states like texas or california where you run 30-second ads and that's what people see, but in new hampshire, it's neighbor to neighbor, people to people. >> church member to church member. i'm not in politics. >> i know, but i'm just -- >> i want to talk about the process where maybe chinese religious cult websites make fool people in a lot of places, but in new hampshire -- this is a running start. >> just as a generic comment, i love being in new hampshire and iowa, and the relationships i built in those places during that time last today, and i still hear from the mayor of

manchester. it's incredibly personal. it's wonderful. it's what separates the united states from every other country in terms of our politics. it really is personal. you meet in the halls and stay up until 1:00 in the morning answering questions, hopefully until every question is asked, and it's a great part of the process. >> it sure is. >> it's a reaffirmation of the basics of politics, and, you know, we'll see what happens, but i think honestly coming back to where we are here if i may -- >> yeah. we would like to keep you off track. >> more comfortable. purposeful diversion. nothing new on "morning joe." >> we're about to talk to you about the giants game, so yeah. you better move fast. >> but no. this is serious. what president biden has been doing with respect to climate has been remarkable, and you look at the inflation reduction act, and i'm not here just to

sort of be advertising or anything. >> it was a massive investment. >> it has set america up to lead. >> right. >> in our economic future in ways that people haven't yet even fully tapped into. you know, it's really interesting because the transformation that we're going through economically is genuinely the largest economic transition since the industrial revolution, and we're going to see unbelievable amounts of new jobs created. right now there's a geothermal energy company where 60% of the employees of that company, which is fast-growing, come out of oil and gas industry. so you're seeing the transformation already taking place, and the international agency told us we're about to reach a terminal downward trend in the demand for fossil fuel because of the amount of electric vehicles out there, and the amount of renewable energy that's being deployed. that is the future, joe.

it's absolutely cooked in now. >> yeah. >> ceos, companies, all around the world. we have 85 of the major corporations of america that have joined something that president biden started called the first mover's coalition, and they are buying willingly, a green premium. they're buying green products in order to send a message to the marketplace that you can have green steel and cement. that's a transformation that's taking place. >> and, you know, mike, you get some of the top producers in the world, talk to them privately and they'll tell you we may have 20, 25 more years of oil under the ground. we have got to race towards alternative energy sources. >> how are we doing in that? >> that is -- the race is on. >> any ceo in america, an american company or global company knows reality, recognizes reality, recognizes what's coming down the road. we're going to need partners. my question to you is you recently returned to beijing.

where is china in all this? are they going to be with us, with the world or against us? will they will any hope or a hindrance? >> we hope we'll be able to get to china in the course of the next months. we have been meeting and i'm hopeful to have discussions. we have had meetings in new york. we will be meeting in the next weeks, but we don't know the answer of that completely. we do know that china right now is outbuilding everybody in renewable energy, and they're deploying that energy at home, and literally china is now deploying and manufacturing more than all the rest of the world put together. so china's made a decision -- they had 52 degrees centigrade last summer. they had people dying because of the floods in china. our hope is we can, you know, depoliticize this issue at least. it's a universal threat. >> john kerry, thank you, and as

always, it's great to see you. >> oh, thanks. good to see you guys. coming up, one of the lead voices in congress defending president biden against an impeachment inquiry. ranking member of the oversight committee, democrat jamie raskin is our guest just ahead on "morning joe." just ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline,

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coming up, jen psaki just sat down with hillary clinton. what the former first lady and former secretary of state and former presidential candidate has to say about the potential of donald trump pardoning himself. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good.

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he doesn't like it when he's taken on directly and

confronted. i'm the only one on that stage other than asa hutchinson who will raise my hand and say, i won't support him if he's a convicted felon. i guess he had a bad night last night. maybe he had bad chinese food or something, wolf. he decided to attack me. keep it coming, donald, and by the way, if he had any guts, he would get on the debate stage. if he's got things to say about me, stop hiding behind your social media site, your failed social media site, donald, and start taking me on directly. show up. stop being a coward. >> chris christie with more strong and direct criticism of donald trump especially about why he's afraid to debate. meanwhile on capitol hill, far-right republicans are pushing the federal government closer to a shutdown. a small group of lawmakers once again blocked an attempt by speaker mccarthy to bring a key funding bill up for a procedural vote. we're also following the

autoworkers strike and the possibility of more walking off the job today. we'll have an update on the negotiations between the union and detroit's big three. plus, rudy giuliani's legal and financial troubles are starting to catch up with him. we'll go through the federal order that he simply ignored. this guy, i mean, it just keeps coming. >> every day, willie. every day it gets worse for the guy who once called himself america's mayor. it's -- i don't, you know, i don't know if he faces prison, if he faces bankruptcy, if he faces additional charges, it's -- again, it's just from all directions and this is the cost of course, when you turn your life over to donald trump. >> yeah. america's dead beat it appears. he can't pay any of his legal bills. he's on the hook now for these women in georgia who he clearly and explicitly defamed, shaye moss and ruby freeman.

he owes them money, and it was all fun and games until the indictments started coming down when he was playing along with donald trump, doing whatever he said around the 2020 election, around january 6th. he had prominence. he had relevance. he was on tv all the time, and now like for so many other people around donald trump, the bill is coming due. >> the bill is coming due. >> he doesn't have the money. >> no. i mean, from america's mayor to america's deadbeat. following donald trump can get you thrown in jail or ruin you financially. >> it used to be a sad story. you would think of rudy giuliani and think of what happened to this guy? it's no longer a sad story because he has talked himself into every legal difficulty that's hanging over his head today. he's done it to himself. >> yeah. >> and largely selfishly for himself thinking that he would carve himself out a bigger role in an ensuing trump administration. >> when he's lying about election workers in georgia, guess what?

i'm getting emails from friends saying, oh. have you heard this? there were these two women who whatever. i mean, it took off. it became very viral. he spread that lie that ended up, you know, causing great risk to them. >> great pain to them. >> pain, risk, damage. people coming into their house. so, you know, he's -- he's got to pay them off and he doesn't have the money to pay them off. >> this is, like,, you know, this is where maga runs into -- when maga runs into reality in courts. >> right. >> it just stops. >> this is where -- >> money is due. all of a sudden, people are held accountable, under indictment. they may be going to jail. it's the one place where people can be held accountable. >> when maga runs into reality, reality wins when you are in the courtroom, richard. every single time. go down the list. 63 federal cases and judges saying, no, donald. there's no widespread fraud. his own supreme court as he said before the election, his own

supreme court, they go, no. no, donald. no widespread fraud. alito and thomas, the most conservative members of the court actually write a concurrence, but say there's not enough votes here to change the outcome. time and time again, it's such a great way to put it when maga runs into reality in the court of law, maga always loses. >> it's interesting rudy's part of a larger phenomena for the people who went for a ride like the people on january 6th, and hundreds are in jail, paying the price and he stays out, meanwhile all these other people who went along were the glorious ride are paying the price. >> jonathan lemire, so can you top it? go. >> good morning to you guys. it does seem though that america's mayor may need more of

donald trump's fundraisers to be able to float his legal bills and i guess there might be concerns whether he would perhaps join the january 6th convict choir which of course, has been so many of the former -- former rioters have turned to, but yes to joe's point, this is reality, and richard said so far donald trump has not suffered the consequences. i think the key phrase is so far. he of course, has, four legal matters hanging over his head. he is going to be in all likelihood appearing in a courtroom on at least one of those trials and maybe more. at least one next year during an election as he so desperately seeks the return to the white house as he tries to make the legal trouble go away. he's going to be day after day, have to sit there in front of a jury of his peers and he may suffer those consequences too. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watcg joe. we'll be right back.

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46 past the hour. there is still no deal to end the writers guild strike against hollywood studios. negotiators met yesterday for a second day of talks despite signs of positive movement. the day ended with no deal. negotiations will continue today. this has been the most significant round of talks since 11,000 writers walked off the job in may. sources say the ceos of top media companies engaged directly in the negotiations. if a deal is reached with the writers, hollywood executives will still have to broker a separate agreement with actors who went on strike in july. meanwhile, the united

autoworkers strike could spread to more facilities later today. the union and detroit's big three automakers return to the bargaining table yesterday, but there is still no deal in sight. uaw president has warned the strike will expand if there's, quote, no serious progress by today at noon. last friday about 13,000 workers walked off the job at three plants in missouri, ohio, and michigan. if the union expands the work stoppage, it could exacerbate disruptions in gross domti product. the union is demanding up to 40% pay raises forou years along with better retirement benefits and shorter workweeks. general motors and ford have only offered 20% pay raises and stellantis made a new offer this week, but the details of that

have not been released yet. and now to the new details on the f-35 fighter jet that crashed in south carolina last weekend. its pilot was forced to eject, and the military temporarily lost track of the plane. now we're hearing from the pilot of that jet for the first time. nbc news correspondent blaine alexander has the details. >> i guess we got a pilot at our house saying he got ejected. >> reporter: a 911 call into a $100 million mystery. what caused a f-35 fighter jet to go missing and then crash in rural south carolina. the pilot ejected and landed in the backyard of a home near north charleston earlier this week. the stunned homeowner called 911. >> i'm sorry. what happened? >> we've got a pilot in the house, and i guess he landed in my backyard, and we're trying to see if we can get an ambulance to the house, please.

>> reporter: then the pilot took the phone. >> how old is the patient? >> we had a military jet crash. i'm the pilot. we need to get rescue rolling. i'm not sure where the airplane is. it would have crash landed somewhere. i ejected. >> reporter: the pilot describing a harrowing escape. >> how far did he fall? >> i was at 2,000 feet. >> okay, and what caused the fall? >> an aircraft failure. >> reporter: the marine corps says the pilot ejected around 1:30 sunday afternoon and residents reported feeling their homes shaking after 2:00, meaning the plane could have been flying on autopilot for more than a half hour. the pilot ejected in north charleston, but the jet ended up 80 miles away from williamsburg county. >> usually other military aircraft in which the pilot ejected, the airplane were fly for maybe 30 seconds to a minute, but several minutes is

surprising. >> reporter: the pilot was taken to the hospital and released on monday. a stunning story of survival after that mysterious crash. >> oh my gosh. nbc's blayne alexander with that report. you got your toys? >> it's over there. last year's annual global citizen festival raised over $2 billion to end extreme poverty and generated awareness about some of the world's most pressing issues, including, hunger, climate change, gender inequity and more. the event featured artists and speakers from the jonas brothers to nancy pelosi. tomorrow the festival returned to central park. the organizers say it might be the most impactful yet. here to explain why is the ceo and cofounder of global citizen hugh evans and fran catsutis.

she runs it. let's just say it. fran serves on the board of directors for global citizen. by the way, she was also an honoree on the forbes and know your value 50 over 50 list last year. let's start with you. >> let's talk about the history of it. we have been so excited to see over the past 11 year what is you've done, and so many of these things come and go. they're fads. yours is not. it's an incredible story how it started, but 11 years now. how much closer to your goal of ending extreme poverty are you? >> firstly, i should say thank you to fran and thank you to you, joe and mika.

i honestly believe we wouldn't be here today without you because you were involved since day one. huge thank you to you. the world is much closer than when i was born. in 1983, 52% of the planet lived in extreme poverty. pre-pandemic the world was down to less than 8%. >> repeat that stat again. we had secretary kerry in here and we were talking about climate change. hottest august ever, hottest summer ever, a lot to be concerned about, but we also have come a long way on climate change in this country. you have a long way to go, true. but also, extreme poverty, i don't think people understand it is within our reach -- >> it's absolutely true. >> it is within your reach to say one day we have ended extreme poverty. >> it is absolutely possible. those living on less than $1.90

u.s. per day has declined to less than 8% of the planet in 2019. >> where is that 8%? >> principally in sub-saharan africa and pockets of latin america. if you look at south sudan, this is where extreme poverty persists and this is where we need to tackle it. the way to tackle it is obviously to empower girls and women, to address the issue of the climate crisis. also, right now we need to focus on food insecurity. because of the conflict in ukraine and russia, grain and fertilizer aren't reaching the farmers who need it. we're working to support the international fund for agricultural development to make sure these small hold farmers get the inputs they need. >> do you remember when hugh was first on our show. he was like, i want to end world

hunger. >> fran, mmika, patted him on te head, that's cute. talk about what it's like being a part of this organization and really making a difference. >> something that's really unique is both of our organizations are committed to the communities, to equity, to doing everything that we can with our people and power. i think the private and public partnershipsha we have built over the last five years have truly driven tremendous action. when you partner with an organization, what you want to know is that you're having impact, there's a difference, you can quantify it. our people at cisco are so active in the communities. about 85% of our people give back on an annual basis. for our employees, partnering with global citizen allows them to really get involved in

climate and poverty equity, hunger, and feel like they're having tremendous impact. >> what's the key to that? >> i think the key is that people around the world work incredibly hard, but they want to know that the place they're working for is also going to leave the world in a better place. the coolest thing for us is we have the opportunity to take the technology that cisco builds and intersect it with purpose. we can impact the digital divide. we can ensure people around the world have access, which allows them to get to education and health care to start new businesses, to come out of poverty. i think when your business and purpose come together, it truly can unlock your company. >> i want to tell people what you tell people again, your

story really quickly. a couple of years ago, when you told your story, i thought this was like some rich kid whose parents patted him on the head and said go out, sonny boy. the reason i want you to tell your story is because you've made such a massive impact with this organization, with people like fran, cisco, others that have been involved. one of my favorite speeches of bobby kennedy's 1966 speech in south africa, it was the ripple of hope speech. he said it's so easy to become overwhelmed by the ills of this world, feeling like we can't make a difference. but he says every time someone strikes out for injustice lessens the pain of others.

it sends forth a tiny ripple of hope and creating a tidal wave that can knock down the mightiest walls of oppression. you have a ripple of hope story. i'm not saying this for you. i'm saying this for people who are listening, who are saying i can't do anything. tell your story. >> well, for me, joe, it started when i was 12 years old. i was in my first year of high school in melbourne, australia. i started raising money for communities in the developing world to tackle poverty. >> why? >> i was just an eager 12-year-old. i put up my hand when a lady came for charity. i started knocking on every door across the community. i asked every local church, every school, everyone to get behind me. i ended up raising the most amount of money of any kid in australia. so they sent me to the philippines, this charity, to see their work firsthand.

there was one night that changed my life forever. >> how old were you? >> 14. i was taken to a slum in the center of manila called smokey mountain. it's a community built on top of a rubbish dump. the kids run after trucks to get pieces of metal and food, things they can recycle. i was put in the care of a kid whose name was sonny boy. where i'd come from in regular melbourne australia, he had tattoos on his forearm at the age of 14. when came time to go to sleep, we lay on this concrete slab with cockroaches running all around us. i couldn't go to sleep. i thought it was pure chance that i was born where i was born

and he was born where he was born. i said, i'm going to commit my life to this. i came back and said to my mom, i'm going to go live in india for a year, i want to work with mother teresa. mum wasn't excited about that. i went to live in the himalayan mountains at a school when i was 15 years old. it changed my life forever. fast forward a few years later, the g 20 was coming through melbourne. me and my mate dan had a chance to run this small concert. one day it exploded when we got a call from bono and pearl jam who said they wanted to headline our show. they came on first and sang "rockin' in the free world" by neil young. we raised $6 billion. that's when the global citizen

movement was born. >> he talked about the government pitching in. the governments are the ones that can make the biggest difference. it's not like cisco is standing up going we're going to end world hunger and poverty ourselves. it's almost like seed money to get global citizen and get the people to get the governments behind these incredible causes. >> there's so much we can do. whenever i listen to hugh's story, which is so beautiful, i think it shows the power of the individual and that one person can start a movement and can bring people around him. for companies, we can do the same thing. we've been talking about climate today. one of the things we've done to our cisco foundation is we put up a $100 million fund to finance and support these entrepreneurs who are starting climate projects that could truly have impact on the world.

finding people like hugh, who are doing amazing things, and doing everything we can to scale them, is not only a responsibility. i think it becomes a business opportunity too. >> thank you both very much. you can learn much more at globalcitizen.com. congratulations. thank you. globalcitizen.org. >> big acts going to be coming through here. >> yes. that's right. we have the red hot chili peppers, we have lauryn hill, john cook and anita all joining us. >> globalcitizen.org. thank you so much. we're into the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. this morning we've been talking about the new cnn university of new hampshire poll that finds 52% of potential 2024 voters in

the state would back biden and 40% would vote for trump. 8% say they're unsure or they would back someone else. >> 94% of democrats in this state say they would back biden against trump. only 79% of republicans say they would support donald trump. former white house press secretary jen psaki is with us, also mehdi hasan. thank you both for being with us. jen, we've heard it before, we'll hear it again. can i say it? democrats are bedwetters. they worry all the time, way too much. i think this poll proves what i've been saying for some time and what i really believe, that when push comes to shove, you're going to have democrats lining up behind the democratic

candidate, whoever it is running against donald trump. you're not going to have that in suburbs and swing states like new hampshire for republicans. >> that's right, joe. i think if you're in the white house right now, you are breathing a sigh of relief in seeing this poll. but also, it's very early and a little bedwetting is not the worst thing, because this election is going to be so close regardless. as you noted, joe, this is a choice, right, ultimately. yes, we are still in a phase that i like to call the purple unicorn phase. people are wishing and hoping some magical candidates on each side would emerge. this is in all likelihood, unless something crazy happens, going to be a biden/trump election. it's pretty clear what the race is going to be. drawing that contrast and forcing people to make the choice is hopefully going to help see some of these state polls break a little bit their

way. >> medhi, you're so great at debating. i'm curious if you're talking to the biden white house. there are some people in there that are probably watch right now. what is the message? what is the single message that you hold onto and you don't let go of between now and the election in 2024? >> a couple of things. one is i don't think joe biden will ever go into kind of books from famous quotations from presidents in the same way that jfk or obama may go into. there is one quote that sticks with me, which is don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the other guy, which is profoundly wise and spot on. with the abortion stuff, you're seeing the white house reminding people trump is the guy who took credit for killing roe v wade.

they're going that because they rightly believe he will be their opponent next year. drawing that contrast is so important. fundamentally, even if you're not energized by biden as a democrat, you're certainly as a democrat energized in opposing donald trump. i also think biden needs to deal with this argument of what's he up to? just listing your policies is not enough. you mentioned debating and arguing. he needs to be out there making the argument. if i were him, i'd be going to the uaw picket line. i wouldn't allow donald trump going to speak to organized labor next week and pretend he's the champion of the little guy, when he's not. i would like to see a lot more of that from joe biden. >> hammering a point home, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago on the phone and then again on tv. vivek, you just kept going after

him. that was my go-to when i was running for congress and nobody knew who i was. ask the same question over and over again. you didn't answer the question. donald trump, you said you're going to make everyone happy on abortion? you said, i am the one who killed roe v wade. you just go back and you say, you said, and repeat it five times. go ahead. >> because a lot of democrats complain, rightly in some ways, about the media's failing. the reality is journalists take their cues from the politicians. therefore, democrats have to be out front making this case, making the contrast and forcing journalists to catch up. if democrats are silent on issues like trump, on kevin mccarthy, on far-right white supremacy taking over the gop, on issues like clarence thomas's latest corruption scandal, then

of course there's going to be a vacuum and nature abhors a vacuum. >> when the white house is talking about bidenomics, it's just way too general. you've got to put it on a bumper sticker. what is the economic message? is it that donald trump is the first president in history to have less jobs when he left since hoover or something? like, what is the message that you just hammer home with people? is it jobs? >> sort of, joe, but i think it's not exactly jobs. it is more about who is fighting for the people in the country. he's got great economic data. people don't vote on data. they vote on how a politician makes them feel, what emotion that politic brings out in them. if they feel like that person

understands and knows the struggles they're going through, that is very true to who joe biden is. that is the contrast with donald trump. donald trump cares about himself and padding his own pockets. joe biden cares about you, workers, women trying to make ends meet and make sure they can work while taking care of their kids. that's who he is and that is the contrast that needs to be drawn. less about jobs and data. people don't think it impacts them. they want to know is this the guy who's fighting for me? >> why is there not more talk on the personal front, like where is joe biden from. he understands working class americans. he understands people who have lost their jobs, because his dad lost his job. first, donald trump is a guy who inherited $400 million from his daddy and lost it. >> yeah, i think you're right, joe. jen is right as well. people don't vote on data.

people don't agree because of statistics. people want to hear stories. we look at images on instagram and tv. the reality is donald trump is going to go speak to uaw autoworkers next week who don't like him, who he doesn't really support. and yet the reality is a lot of people will see him there and say, oh yeah, donald trump stands up for the working man. it's not true, obviously. remember when he turns up in east palestine after the train crash? i'm amazed biden didn't go there after the trail derailment. i'm amazed biden is not turning up in michigan. i just think it's a no-brainer. the vast majority of americans support the strikers. it makes no sense when you've got this union president who's very pro labor.

and the lefties will say what about the rail strike last year? they'll remember that. that's why he has to do much more on the big picture. just throwing out statistics will not win him a presidential election. >> like you said, show up there, be there, be there and explain all things he's doing for them. i completely agree with you. like you said, it's in michigan, a kind of important state. before we go on, you talked to dr. fauci. i'm curious. we have an interview of him coming up. i'm curious what you learned from him. >> we talked about a lot of things on my show this week, including, the new vaccines, obviously, the need to get the boosters. one thing i talked to him about is the ongoing security threats to him. this is an 82-year-old former

public servant who has to travel around with armed guards even after leaving office. why? because republicans incite violence against him. i played the clip of ron desantis saying, throw that little elf into the potomac. he says, when ron desantis says stuff like that, crazy people are triggered into threatening violence against him and his family. we've just become numb to the fact that our politics are defined by violence. we have public health officials and members of congress living in fear of their lives because of donald trump and the maga wing of the republican party. that has not happened in history. >> then you have ron desantis, who's supposed to be the alternative to donald trump, saying that his first day in office he's going to slit the throats of public employees. you have ron desantis saying

he's going to shoot and kill people with backpacks, people with backpacks at the border. again, they've lost their mind. i hear people, oh, well, maybe they don't meet the definition -- yes, they do! they use violent rhetoric and they attack government buildings violently to try to change policy. they've got a guy that's talking about terminating the constitution. i'm wondering what exactly they have to do short of flying a swastika? and some of them do that. what do they have to do to be called fascists? it's absolutely crazy. jen, you talked to hillary clinton this week. what did she tell you? >> we had a pretty wide-ranging conversation. this is the hillary clinton who i think a lot of people who know her well say she is exactly this

way, straightforward, candid when you get her privately. one thing we talked about was trump, of course, and his repeated claims that prove to be false, but his claim that he would not pardon himself and whether or not she believes that. >> he recently said that he is very unlikely -- it would be very unlikely that he would attempt to pardon himself. do you believe him? >> i don't believe him on anything. why would i start believing him on that? the thing about him -- and i'm not the only person who's noticed this -- is he engaged in what psychologists call projection. whenever he accuses somebody else of doing something, it's almost guaranteed he's doing it himself or he's already done it. or whenever he denies thinking about doing something or doing it, it's almost guaranteed he is thinking about it or he's

already done it. >> who knows better than hillary clinton on how donald trump operates and her point about projection and the fact that when he says something, not only should we not believe it, but we should question whether it's something he's thinking about and doing. she had some interesting things to say about vladimir putin as well. we'll see it on sunday. >> go back and look a the debates. medhi, we've been talking about this past week about the culture of rot, moral and political rot around donald trump, of course, a guy that's been accused of stealing nuclear secrets, a guy that a judge said raped a woman, a guy that's been caught making illegal payments to porn stars, a guy that's been caught trying to destroy tapes from mar-a-lago that the feds wanted, on and on

and on. then you look at the people around him. all of the people have been arrested. this past week we found out that cassidy hutchinson, while she's in the tent on january 6th, says that rudy giuliani comes up and sexual assaults her. she looks over to eastman for some help, and he's just sitting there leering, looking at her. again, the old saying the fish rots from the head down, the culture here is so corrupt and so despicable and there's a straight line from trumpism in that situation to trumpism in the house of representatives. >> yes. it's infected the entire party and i would argue the conservative movement more broadly across the country. i said on my show about a year, two years ago, that the fundamental dividing line in american politics today is not left versus right or democrat versus republican. it's awful people versus not

awful people. that is fundamentally what it comes down to. we have a bunch of really, really awful people. i've been criticizing republicans for decades. i can criticize republicans from the bush era, the reagan era. but the level of indecency that we see, sleaze from this modern maga republican movement is so off the charts, every week it's a new revelation, a new confession, a new accusation. you see lauren boebert in the theater, the person who talks about christian values and family values and groomers and protecting our kids and then you see what she's up to at beetlejuice. for me the calling card of the modern republican party would be every accusation is a confession. they go around accusing everyone

else of what they're doing and especially on this christian front. let's go back to that poll. ron desantis is in fifth place in new hampshire. his team's strategy was we're going to do well in iowa because the evangelicals are in iowa. the evangelicals don't care about christian values. they're backing trump. that's why he's losing in iowa as well. >> lauren boebert's worried about flashcards corrupting children. >> she's flashing an entire audience at beetlejuice with whatever that was, groping and vaping. >> groping, vaping. we're going to bring in the ranking member of the house oversight committee, democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland. he was the manager of donald

trump's second impeachment. he's now one of the core group of democrats defending president biden and his administration against republican investigations. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. how fascinating that you've got a congress, a house who's not doing anything, not even the republicans can't even agree on keeping the government open. yet they're launching investigations where they've admitted they don't have the goods on joe biden. >> right. these things are not coincidences, joe. donald trump is calling the shots across the board. he thinks he can shut down his indictments and the work of the special counsel and the department of justice and the federal courts by getting matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene and three other members of the maga caucus to shut down the

government of the united states. he's badly mistaken. jack smith and the prosecutors are funded by a continuing indefinite appropriation to the department of justice, and they're exempted because the attorney general is a presidential appointee. the federal courts themselves are open for business for criminal trials, because they relate to the protection of life, property and public safety. so he's going to shut down the rest of the u.s. government in order to blockade his prosecutions, but it's not even going to work. and matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene should figure out right now they're just going to end their political careers by shutting down the government for no reason. they should tell donald trump his plan is not going to work. >> congressman, it's jen. i want to ask you how you think this ends. this is certainly not on the responsibility of democrats in

the house. do you think this ends with a bill that democrats could support? or how do we get to the other side of this? >> it really ended in may when we had an agreement to prevent just this impasse. the agreement was signed off on by speaker mccarthy, by the democrats. so we perceived that some of the right-wing extremists would try to do this. so we just need to stick to the agreement. mccarthy doesn't want to stick to the agreement, because if he gets democratic votes to pass it, then the entire maga caucus says if he does anything with democratic votes, they're going to overthrow him. it was just four days ago they had three objects. one, shut down the government of the united states, two, impeach joe biden, and, three, overthrow mccarthy. now they're moving down each of

these tracks. i would at least hope matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene understand they are not going to be able to shut down the prosecutions and trials of donald trump by doing this. it will not work. they are fully appropriated by continuing indefinite appropriations or multi-year appropriations. donald trump tweeted out yesterday that this would shut down his investigations and the prosecution. it will not work. somebody needs to get that through that brain of his. >> not going to happen. he wants to keep talking about it and others just want to raise money off of it when they know they're scamming their supporters. congressman jamie raskin, thank you so much. let's bring in state attorney for palm beach county dave aronberg. i want to talk about rudy giuliani for a second. this is a guy who, again, went from america's mayor to

america's deadbeat. he's tried to destroy the lives of two women who were trying to help at the polls. he's been found liable. he's supposed to pay, and he's not doing it. what's next? >> it's got to really hurt him that robert costello, his own lawyer, is suing him for $1.3 million in unpaid fees. costello was a law student who trained under rudy giuliani, and now he's suing him. it shows you how far he has fallen. the good news for rudy is where he's likely going, he won't have to worry about rent or food. >> he's also ignoring judge's orders. giuliani failed to comply with the judge's order to turn over evidence and pay the legal fees of ruby freeman and shaye moss, the election workers that he

accused of committing election fraud. moss testified that her mother's and her lives have been destroyed because giuliani lied about them. >> defamed them. and they won. >> right now he's just ignoring a judge's order. >> i think it's because he can't afford to pay. a judge already ruled against giuliani. >> so he's liable. >> he's liable. it's not a question of how much. he won't turn over documents because i don't think he's worth very much. he's trying to sell his home in manhattan. he's in a lot of trouble. >> if a judge tells you to do something, he's got to comply or he's held in contempt. >> correct. eventually i think he ends up in prison because he's the subject of the rico case in fulton

county. remember roy cohen, he died penniless, friendless, all alone and disgraced. that's where rudy giuliani is headed. >> i get that he's got the rico charges against him. but what about what he was found liable for doing to ruby freeman and shaye moss? how do they get their money? are there consequences? >> you can't get blood from a stone. rudy giuliani is going to donald trump saying, help me pay. trump raised him a million dollars at bedminster recently, but that's not enough. as a result, i think this is going to keep compounding. the debt is going to add up. eventually he'll be probably shielded by the fact that he'll be living in government housing somewhere in georgia. >> do you really think that? >> i do. i think he is headed towards prison. i'm not as sure about trump. although i do think trump could be found guilty, he gets special treatment as a former president. >> maybe they put him in mar-a-lago with an ankle

bracelet. they won't do that for giuliani or jenna ellis or eastman or the kraken lady. they won't do that for any of these people. everybody else, if they're found guilty -- and they got some strong cases against them -- they're all going to jail, aren't they? >> they are. don't count on any pardon. ask the january 6th rioters if they got a pardon. they didn't. so they're going down with the ship. loyalty for the former president is a one-way street. >> he can't even help in georgia. beyond that, the governor can't even help, not that he would. they have a pardon board. so all of these people, giuliani, jenna ellis, eastman, jeffrey clark, if these people are found guilty, they're all

going to be in jail. >> they will. these cases are all pardon proof. same thing for the former president. he can't pardon himself. i think what's going to happen is he's running for president again because he wants to pardon himself out of the federal cases. as far as georgia, he expected he'll be president and then he'll say okay, georgia officials, here with my secret service protection around me, come and get me. then there will be a constitutional crisis. >> i would be shocked if the roberts court even allows donald trump to pardon himself in these federal cases. i don't think it's going to happen. >> no. i think his best chance is to become president before the cases are tried. then he can order his department of justice to drop everything. >> state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg, thank you so much. as congressional leaders work to avoid a federal government shutdown by september 30th, that highly successful

humanitarian program also hangs in the balance. president george w. bush's pepfar program or the president's emergency plan for aids relief is set to expire. in a moment, we'll talk to former secretary of state kond lee sa rice. first, here is "morning joe's" dr. dave campbell reporting. >> when president george w. bush became president, he actually felt that we have a moral responsibility as a nation with many, many resources to not have people who are going to suffer and die from a treatable and in many respects preventible disease merely because of where they happen to live. >> before dr. fauci was the face of the u.s. covid pandemic response, he was the architect

of the pepfar program. the historic humanitarian initiative supports nearly 65 million people with hiv treatment and testing. pepfar seeks to end hiv/aids as a public health threat by 2030. >> so i put a plan together with a lot of help from the white house. the president said, you know, this is great, but i want something even more france formative. i want you to think real i, really big. let me worry about the money. you just go put the program together. on january 28th, 2003, the president announced the president's emergency plan. >> and the results were significant. aids related deaths have declined 68% since their 2004 peak, and new hiv infections are down 42%. dr. fauci's long time colleague served as the director of the

africa cdc and is a critical leader of pepfar. >> first of all, hiv is a pandemic. it's because of the research and funding over the years that understanding of the virus has improved. we've moved from treating people with a cocktail of drugs to about one pill a day. that is remarkable. >> how are the resources aimed at those subsets of more vulnerable people? >> we have been so successful with the pepfar program that the young people that are reached today, the 19 through 25 years, they have not seen the ugly face of hiv. the gains that we've made, which are fragile, will completely be loss. >> the creation relied on an unlikely coalition of anti-abortion faith leaders.

this is the first reauthorization that's been challenged. >> president biden has hijacked the president's emergency plan for aids relief. biden has now said that abortion promotion is integrated with all of our hiv/aids work overseas. >> representative chris smith is accusing the program of indirectly funding abortions. this has angered lawmakers, alarmed advocates and worried partners overseas. >> we must continue the funding with partnership with countries we are already supporting. the expression of gratitude that we see in these countries and carrying a baby in my hand, looking at the baby in the eyes tells a story. >> former president george w. bush warned, to abandon our commitment now would forfeit two decades of unimaginable progress and raise further questions about the worth of america's

word. >> my plea to the congress was to ask them to look at the history of pepfar. it came about with the inspiration and the will of a compassionately conservative republican president. i mean, if your fundamental core is the right to life and preserving the life of people and children, unborn children, look at the unborn children who will now, if you don't reauthorize pepfar, will die by the tens and hundreds of thousands. >> dr. dave campbell joins us now. why wouldn't congress reauthorize this, and what will happen if they don't? >> what will happen is, first, it will not end. the u.s. law will allow this program to continue, but it

starts to be hobbled. a lot of programs will be weakened as this happens. you have to make appropriations to get the money out there for the programs to go on. but this is the time where the anti-abortion arm of the congress have decided that they're too close, that the pepfar or the biden administration's propping up abortion and kind of bringing together two different issues. pepfar does not support abortion. they do not provide funding for abortion. every expert i've spoken to confirms that. the problem is, they muddied the water. >> i know chris smith, i like him a lot, i worked with him. you and i have talked about this a lot. pepfar has nothing to do with abortion or abortion rights, nothing at all.

let's bring in secretary of state condoleeza rice. it was the 20th anniversary of iraq and what nick christov said is i want to talk about pepfar, because this is the most successful government program in my lifetime, 25 million lives saved. can you talk about how extraordinary this program is and how you all achieved that success? >> yes. i'm grateful to the american people who have supported this program for 20 years. we have to remember that president bush made an appeal to the american people. i'll never forget that night when he said, to whom much is

given much is expected. so i think what we have to focus on here is that the united states of america is at its best when it leads from power, which we have plenty of, but also principle and compassion. the 25 million lives that were saved -- and we have to realize it's not just the 25 million lives that were saved. think of all the orphans that were not created because their parents were saved. think about the mother-to-child transmission that was a part of this that saved the lives of pregnant women who were giving birth to children. i think we have to realize what a terrible situation this was 20 years ago. president bush called us together in the oval office. some progress had been made in the ability to make anti-retro virals extend life. i remember he said is it worth it to extend life even if you can't cure?

i said my mother died of breast cancer, but she died when i was 30, not when i was 15. extending life matters. i think the american people have reason to be proud of this. i'm sorry it's gotten caught up in this political struggle. i hope the questions of those who are concerned can be answered, but this program has to be preserved. >> madam secretary, just to take people back to the time when you and president bush worked on it, i heard about it in my church, in the evangelical community. aids and africa went to the top of the list for a lot of evangelicals. they believed they had a duty as christians to help those who were suffering the most in africa. can you talk about how that impacted george w. bush, how that impacted other members of the administration, that they felt like they had to do this

because their faith demands nothing less? >> absolutely. i'm a minister's daughter. i'm a presbyterian minister's daughter. when there are hurting people in the world, your christian conviction is you have to do what you can to help. in fact, it had been in many ways the faith-based and evangelical community that were the strongest advocates of this with president bush. when we first came into office, he talked about how much his friends in the christian community wanted us to do something about aids. it absolutely united people across religious faiths, across political lines. but we shouldn't underestimate the degree to which this was, as i said, from the bible, to whom much is given, much is expected. president bush actually quoted that in our last meeting in the oval office. so america is at its best when

it is acting in this compassionate way. but i think we as deeply religious people are also at our best when we're acting on our faith. i felt very much that day that i was acting on my responsibility as national security advisor, but i was acting from a place of deep faith. in that op-ed the president wrote, he mentioned mike gerson, one of the most faithful people that i know. and after his death, we very much thought about the spirit of mike gerson as being at the core of this program. so all the lives that have been saved, all the lives that will be saved, all the kids who won't be orphans, this is america at its best. we need to continue. >> what an extraordinary legacy for you and the president, but also for mike gerson.

what an extraordinary legacy. we talk about the 25 million lives that have been saved, the 65 million people who have been reached with help and assistance. let me close with you, madam secretary, we're so grateful for you to be here, because this is such a critical issue. can you just lay out for members of congress and people in the administration what's at stake here if this reauthorization doesn't pass? >> well, what is at stake here is a program that has saved 25 million lives and affected countless others. i would just ask that we also remember that throughout africa and through much of the world people look at this as america. they look at this as the american people. and to not continue, to not make this program able to continue in

its fullest way, that doesn't reflect well on the soul of america. i have to tell you, one of my fondest memories was standing in uganda listening to aids orphans who now wouldn't be orphans singing "god bless america." i hope people will remember that. >> former secretary of state rice, thank you so much for being with us. we so greatly appreciate it. dave, tell me what was your big take-away from dr. fauci when he was talking about the importance of this program and what happens if for some reason congress ties this up and people take another issue that's not even entangled with pepfar. >> it's that it weakens a program that is saving so many lives, allowing so many babies

to be born hiv free. it set up programs in countries, low and middle income countries that helped during covid. so the same systems that are providing anti-retro viral medicine, one pill a day to villages, they utilized these community health systems during covid. it was critical. it hurt a little bit with the approach against hiv and aids. that hurt everything. but what dr. fauci impressed upon me was that we have two different issues. we have babies born hiv free from mothers who are hiv positive with simply providing them a little bit of medicine. >> that's extraordinary. >> yep. and then we have the conflation, the combining of this problem on the anti-abortion side almost as if they're not looking at both sides of this equation. if you want to save lives, save lives.

and there's no connection anyhow. >> it's remarkable that somebody would want to try to kill a program that saves 25 million lives in the name of pro life. it's ridiculous. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you so much for that report. coming up on "morning joe," we examine the troubling rise of anti-semitism in the u.s. ahead of the jewish high holiday of yom kippur this weekend. we're back in two minutes. the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective

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. we have some differences. my commitment to israel is ironclad. i think without israel, there's not a jew in the world that is secure. i think israel is essential. >> that's president biden reaffirming the united states' commitment to israel during a meeting with israeli prime minister netanyahu. netanyahu's u.s. trip came in the middle of the high holidays

on the jewish calendar, which started with rosh hashanah last week and finishes with yom kippur this sunday at sun down. we have the author of the recent book titled "to build a brave space, the making of a spiritual first responder." and "practices what jesus preached, a monthlong journey of reflection, practice and prayer." guys, you got me on friday in the ninth hour. i am struggling through toward the finish line for the week, so forgive me for stumbling around

with it. but what an amazing opportunity here to talk about this. what a way to end the week. i want to start with yom kippur. for people who don't understand the importance of yom kippur, tell us what jews around the world are going to be celebrating. >> good to be back with you. i was a chaplain about 25 years ago at new york hospital. we were required to observe open heart surgery. there i was. one of the most famous heart surgeons comes out there, sees he has a squeamish one. he says here's the heart, here's the liver, tell me where's the soul. i said, doctor, if i don't faint, i'll tell you right after. that is the jewish question during yom kippur. it's how do we find our souls. how do we find our purpose, our inner direction to find out why

we're here and why we're living in the first place. soul brush gets in the way. what's soul brush? transgression. we're not murderers, we're not thieves. but we are jealous, unkind, not always generous to people around us. our goal is to say how are we going to square this with ourselves, how are we going to forgive ourselves? b is other people. we find people and say to them what did i do to hurt you this year, what did you do to hurt me, how can we find contrition. and third on the list is god. according to tradition, god says, if you haven't squared yourself with others, don't come to me. i don't want to see you until you've done those two things. and then i'm with open arms and i'll forgive you. >> by the way chapin, what a segue into your book, because in

the sermon on the mount, jesus says, if you come to me on the altar and you remember that anybody has anything against you -- he doesn't say if it's your fault. he says if there's anybody that has anything against you, leave the altar at once and go make it right with that other person. >> absolutely. the first sermon jesus preaches in the gospel says repent. that forgiveness is the heart and soul of what jesus's ministry is about. in the sermon on the mount, jesus is clear we set the bar for our own forgiveness. we want to be forgiven as we forgive. jesus says you're only going to be forgiven as much as you're willing to forgive others. >> right. blessed are the merciful for they has been shown mercy. you talk about clearing the brush. it reminds me of a tim keller

service. he never talked about murder or robbery or adultery. it was always look into your heart. what did you do at work this week? were you nice to that person? so when you talk about clearing that brush, too often we look at the big things and say, oh, i haven't done that, that, that, that. we're good. and what you're saying and what tim is saying and what the old and new testament says is, no, it's not that simple. if you're angry at your brother or sister, make it right. >> and there's an urgency in this day and age. there's an indelible symbol of the ram's horn. it's like a jewish alarm clock to wake us up to the deeds, to the goals i stated before, but more to say we live in world of two poles. one pole says we think we're in

charge at every minute. the other says you're but dust to the earth, you can die at any time. generally we don't live at the poles. we live in the in between. right here, right now, it's our time to embrace life and every precious moment that we breathe. >> i want to talk briefly about what happened at your services last week. you had to evacuate. >> it was rosh hashanah, the first night. hundreds of people were there. i get patted on my shoulder. the cantor said, leading servic said the police are here, and she said we have to evacuate. so out we went calmly and i think wisely. we got to the back bay choppers and drones, k-9s, it was like a crime scene, and my wife who is the most important adviser i

have, i'm sure you feel the same. >> i do. >> and she said to me, honey, do not let them go home. lead services right here. we led services in the back bay of the parking lot. it was an act of scred defiance. we're not going to be stopped doing what we do. we live in this country for a reason. >> before we let you go and i know you have to go, leave with us final words, what we should be thinking about as we go into this holy weekend. >> the final words from me is that we have to know ourselves well enough, be spiritually confident in ourselves to know when it is we have to use the stick against hate and the hand of compassion. until we're secure in ourselves as human beings, we're not going to know. we need allies and we do that through love and compassion. >> thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. hope you'll come back very soon. >> good to be here. >> great. >> chapin i still have you for a few minutes.

we're going to hold you here. let's do a tv trick, come to me for a second, t.j. we're going to let him slip out. i think it's so important for us and that last story also, that tragedy reminds us again of the need for atonement but also the need for grace. and you know, people -- in jesus's ministry, you can read about it in the sermon on the mount. you can see the overview of it. it's been so twisted beyond recognition, whether you're talking about prosperity gospel, by other televangelists, but christian nationalists. talk about how you go through, and you look what jesus is talking about on the sermon on the mount and it's about forgiveness. it's about being merciful toward others. it's showing mercy for others as you said. >> as a person of faith not just as pastor, i read that sermon on the mount to try to live it out

to the best of my ability. it's hard tough, and it requires a willingness to confess where we have fallen short because we all fall short, and and for forgiveness. this happened to me last week, i got busy and happened to miss something important in the life of a family, and i had to go to them, and we had the pleasantries, and the first thing i said, the first thing i've got to do is apologize. i missed something really important. the thing people often don't realize is that willingness to confess isn't the end of a relationship. it's the beginning. so i'm able to make my confession. the folks are forgiving, and the relationship actually deepens. there's something about our willingness to be honest about ourselves as rabbi was saying and ask for that forgiveness we need, be vulnerable that really allows for healthy relationships and healthy community, healthy churches. i don't think you can have any of that without a willingness to speak truthfully, but also be

willing to admit where we're wrong and receive and give forgiveness. >> chapin, thank you so much for being here, for faith on friday. i love your book, obviously. it's just a great walk through -- great walk through the sermon on the mount. >> good to be with you. >> greatly appreciate it. his latest book is titled practicing what jesus preached, a month-long journey of reflection, practice, and prayer. thanks again, chapin. >> jen, i go back to what the rabbi said. he is worshipping in the synagogue in a high holiday, and there's a threat, bomb threat, and everybody has to go outside, but they defiantly continue worshipping outside, which that's great, but my gosh. we just -- we've got to start

showing more grace to others as things just have gotten worse in the last six, seven years. >> i think that was such a powerful message, joe, and i mean, look, i obviously worked in democratic politics my whole life. i have an uncle bob who passed away in 2009, who would have been an ardent trump supporter, at all of our holiday tables, thanksgiving, christmas, whatever you celebrate, and i've thought a lot in the last few years about how we would engage. it's so hard to start that conversation. i think what they conveyed is so powerful. it's important to mention what we're seeing in the level of anti-semitism, violence, these threats, this is like something we haven't experienced in years, right? it's beyond those conversations. that's part of it. it's also about calling that out and being allies for, you know, these type of threats that are so many communities are under fear from. >> yeah, and you're so right. it starts with talking, though, and i would tell you, you just

kind of fake it until you make it. i mean, my family and friends, we don't discuss it. we talk about things that unite us. i don't understand, you know, a lot of their positions. they don't understand a lot of mine. we sure love each other, and we keep moving forward, and i think you're right. that's what we need to do. very excited. next week you go to 8:00 p.m. on monday right? >> that's right, joe. it's a hell of a week to start a monday night show, given we have impeachment hearings for this bogus impeachment, we have a debate. we have a government that's likely going to shut down. it's a lot to talk about on monday night. we can't wait for it. >> it's going to be exciting. i can't wait to see it. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera is going to pick up the coverage right after a quick break. break. have a a great weekend.

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