>> thank you, good evening, i am ali velshi, i'm in for alex wagner this evening. we have a full show for you. there is a lot of news the public tonight, including departments having to do with the supreme court and, you guessed it, yet more allegations of corruption on that court. the supreme court, as you know,

for several months, we've been discussing on the show, has been steeped in allegations that they are not governing themselves, that they are not in a position to determine when the justices at the supreme court are doing things that don't really measure up to the standards we think should be applied to them. well, for some of you, that is old news, except there is actually more news. it's got to do with, wait for, clarence thomas. now, what i am about to show you, it may not seem central to understanding our current political moment, but unfortunately, it actually. is take a look at this, this is the photo of the opening ceremony for a festival called bohemian grove and california, one country, a few years back. they are burning an effigy that is meant to represent, quote, worldly cares and concerns, and quote. the annual two-week-long festival was a place where

people like erik prince and henry kissinger, who let loose, as propublica put it today. 500 bottle of wine float freely, and members could consume clam shower and chilly, and. it's also all dudes, men only. one republican described as an adult fraternity house. propublica reports today the supreme court justice clarence thomas is a regular. you remember harlan crow? just clarence thomas's body who reportedly paid for him to go on luxury vacations, but him his mom a house while letting him live in it while paying for the private school tuition for his son? the day, propublica reports that harlan crow also brought thomas as a guest to this anyone bohemian grove festival. .. flight records showed that crow was repeatedly dispatch in a private jet to pick up

justice thomas on bates corresponding to the festival, and while propublica can only confirm six trips, which the justice, by the way, did not disclose, several people told propublica that before the pandemic, they saw clarence thomas there about every year. according to this report, thomas was a feature and speaker at the event at least once. justice thomas was the actual entertainment. in response the questions about the trip, crow called thomas a man of credible integrity, and quote. whom he is never heard discussing pending legal matters with anyone. neither crow nor justice thomas responded to propublica's response to questions about whether the justice reimbursed crow for these trips. somehow, that remarkable reporting about the new justice thomas unethical quandary is just the tip of the iceberg in propublica's reporting. let's go back to in term justice thomas at this bohemian festival. with him in the middle, we recognize that face, that is ken burns, the filmmaker. more importantly, the tall guy on the right is the billionaire

conservative megadonor, david koch. you know him as one of the koch brothers. propublica notes that during the annual retreats, they often discussed political strategy with fellow guests. now, we have no idea if the koch talk politics with justice thomas there, but they're schmoozing appears to have led to something arguably worse. every winter, the koch brother's conservative activist network holds its marquee fund raising event in palm springs california. propublica reports that the network offered him an entire hotel for the event, keeping our eavesdroppers, and that documents the behind are methodically shredded. they really don't want people knowing what is going on there. today, propublica reports that justice thomas has attended koch's fundraising events at least twice, including the one in palm springs. according to propublica, donors typically have to get at least

$100,000 a year to get invited to the event, quote, those who give in the millions, receive special treatment, including dinners with charles koch and more high-profile guests. propublica confirmed that thomas attended at least one of those dinners as a speaker. justice thomas was the fundraising draw this time. a spokesperson for the koch network told propublica thomas was not present work fundraising conversations. one former koch network fundraising staffer put it this way, quote, offering a high-level donor the experience of meeting with someone like that, that's huge. end quote. it's particularly huge when you consider that just two years ago, one of the koch network groups was the plaintiff in a supreme court case about the ability for nonprofit groups to keep the donor secret. and justice thomas ruled in the koch brothers favors just a few years after he attended one of the fundraising events. justice thomas did not, once again, respond to propublica's request for comment on any of this, and the supreme court

does not have a written ethics code. they essentially police themselves or not, that's the problem. i am joined now by dahlia lithwick the senior editor at slate and hosted the podcasts and author of the book lady justice, which is a fantastic book, and it's now out in paperback. delia, good to see you. -- it's ludicrous. >> it's ludicrous at every level, and it's the kind of numbing effect of, it was funny with the glacier martinis, funny when some illegal was holding the big salmon that we all realized, oh, similar is the salmon, right? he is the trophy here, same thing. >> right, there is this interesting line in the world that the supreme court is having trouble with right now, and it is what is a gift? what is socializing? what is influence peddling? what is helping people raise money? what is drawing donors who then

subscribe to or give to political causes? all of this is getting money, and we have a new system to govern how it is supposed to go. we have just assumed that people will hold these roles will govern themselves through the lens of propriety. >> right, and you don't have to think back all that far, 1969, gabe ford is took pennies compared to what clarence thomas and justice alito has taken. he's run off the court by his own colleagues, including the chief justice, earl warren, who said this is making us look bad, and i don't even care that i am appointed by a democrat, and your appointed by a democrat, they don't care, you have to be gone, and that was understood, and the court ran out for much lesser offense. so here we are now, and we've got chief justice john roberts

doubling down, saying, congress can't touch us. i don't have to show up and testify. >> don't have to answer to anybody. propublica is just a journalism outlet, but they don't have to tell anybody anything. >> and justice alito, who gives an interview to the wall street journal, in which he asserts that congress has no authority over the court. that's where we are. >> let's discuss that for a second, because when they said that, i sort of looked at the constitution and tried to make sense of this. our co-branches of government are supposed to be coequal and independent of one another. but we have mechanisms. they have been flawed over the last few years. including our impeachment for the former president. but there are mechanisms. was there never one for the supreme court? what was meant to happen if the supreme court justices get involved in untoward behavior ethically? >> some version of what

happened happening to justice cordes, in which the courts said to themselves, we have knighted the power nor the sword, we only have public legitimacy. if the american people want to just ignore rulings, they can. if congress wants to turn off the lights, they can. let's conduct ourselves as though we are above reproach. the other piece of this that i think is really heartbreaking is that the same justices who are saying that governments sucks, cdc sucks, the heart of the chevron doctrine, we will cripple the administrative state, are the ones who don't care about the legitimacy of their own branch. so how could you keep harping on how bad government is without looking at your own house? >> let's talk about the chevron doctrine for a moment. this is something that justice thomas is involved in. senator dick durbin has asked him to be -- to recuse himself from an upcoming case. we talked a lot about it today. there are a lot of people who

don't know what the chevron doctrine is, but it has to do with our agencies of government and what authority they have. people will have heard this discussion about the dismantling of the administrative state. there is definitely kind of think that folks will take about place over on, but it's actually important in this context. >> this is any agency under chevron, it kacer 1984, and it seemed and uncontroversial principle. >> we talk about the cdc, epa, anything like that? >> any agency, if there is writing that is ambiguous, the court says in chevron, deferred to the agency's own readings at the statute, that makes sense, because we can't send every question to the court? justice thomas was for the chevron doctrine until suddenly, he wasn't. and justice thomas is an interesting character because he does not change his mind very often, so he went from being a very bold supporter that of course we let agencies construe on statutes to, not so much anymore.

that does not happen much when your clarence thomas. i am in no way suggesting that hanging out with the koch brothers who has spent decades trying to dismantle the chevron and thus dismantle the regulatory stand so that they can pollute and do all the things that they want to do. i am not saying -- >> it looks bad. at this point, i think it's important for folks to understand we don't follow the chevron doctrine, this idea of the initiative state, whether you think about it much or not, if you are really rich, or you're a company that wants to throw are garbage into the river, you don't want regulation. now, there are some conservatives who legitimately are not in much regulation, don't want government to regulate. much but in this particular case, there are a lot of places with particular interests to want these government agencies to be weakened. >> you are right, and in the

last few years, we have seen the epa, the clean water act dismantled. we have seen president biden's student loan forgiveness all done under the rubric of this larger theory that you don't want government bureaucrats controlling your life. it is a basic libertarian principle, but we can't function as a society if we don't have agencies making sure that their rights are protected, that health is protected, that the environment is protected. in effect, what you are looking at is an effort to say, all bets are off, no regulations, no administrative state, and again, the cynicism of saying, the government is bad, government is bad, when your own court is a hot, steaming mess -- >> you're separating the issues. in other words, there's a debate to be had. started with ronald reagan, who came up and said i will dismantle all the stuff that was really, have been built up to the 30s and 40s, the big government, all the things that government did to make a small government. it started with that.

that could be a valid debate that people can have in a different form. but the issue is, if the supreme court had to make decisions, and that is where the decisions come and go, about whether the epa has power over something or any given agency does, then we would like to know that the supreme court justices are squeaky clean on the issue, that they have no relation to anybody or interests prior in the court or the interest dismantling of the initiative state? >> that and the people who should be making decisions about clean water, our experts and scientists and people to studied this their whole lives, and not just this alito who goes on about what he thinks environmental policy should be. the whole point of having an administrative state is that you deal with experts and scientists and facts. we have seen this move at the supreme court the last couple

of terms, where the court irrigates into itself more and more power to decide issues. and i guess we are both landing at the same depressing place which is a supreme court that will seize power from state courts and from the executive branch and from the federal government, should be squeaky clean. >> yeah, it's not feeling all that squeaky clean today. nice to see you again, as always, thank you for this. dahlia lithwick and her book, lady justice, is out in paperback. i was talking to dahlia about it when it first came out. read it, it's really important. this much more ahead tonight, including the unusual guest who walked a picket line alongside the autoworkers on tuesday. but first, a jaw-dropping indictment of a sitting united states senator, bribery allegations involving hidden cash, gold bars and a 60,000 -dollar mercedes. we'll get the details after this. tired muscles and joints were keeping me from doing the things i loved most. not anymore. blue-emu gave me my freedom back. it supports healthy muscles and joints. shop our expanded family of products at major online retailers.

(♪♪) rsv can be a dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado.

start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com ♪ (man)with a partner ththat looks really high.t. (woman) it is high. whenever you are ready. (man) are there any snakes? (woman) nope. (man) are you sure? here we go! (vo) it's time to push your limits. (man) okay. (woman) you're doing great! (man) oh, is that a buffalo? (woman) babe, that's a cow. (vo) the all-new subaru crosstrek wilderness. adventure on the edge.

meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. chase. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly!

don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g >> the indictment alleges that home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network.

lana davies provided bribes in the form of cash, gold. for mortgage payments, local or no show job for nadine mendes. mercedes-benz. other things of value for the senator and his wife. >> the senator and his wife in question are the senator, the senior senator from new jersey, the democrats, bob and mendez, and his wife, nadine. they're facing allegations that they took bribes in exchange

for using the senators influence on behalf of three businessmen and the egyptian government. in a federal indictment unveiled today, investigators say they found nearly $500,000 in cash, stuffed into jackets, bearing the senator's name. envelope's, and a safe that they found gold bars in worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. senator menendez and his wife each deny any wrongdoing. the senator released a statement saying in part, quote, they wrote these charges as they wanted, the facts are not as presented. prosecutors did that the last time, and look what a trial demonstrates. people should remember that before accepting the prosecutor 's version. end quote. now, when he says prosecutors did that last time, senator menendez is referring to a previous criminal trial in 2017, that ended with a hung jury. today's indictment appears to make menendez the first sitting senator and u.s. history to be indicted on to unrelated criminal allegations. senator menendez has stepped down as the chair of the foreign relations committee. but there are growing calls from his own state and his party, including from new jersey's democratic governor, for menendez to resign. senator menendez's defiance said in a statement that he's not going anywhere. this latest scandal comes as menendez is up for reelection next year, and of course

democrats hold a very slim majority in the senate. joining us now is nbc news, justice and legal affairs analyst, anthony coley. great to see you, thank you for being with us. >> good to be with you, thank you for having me. >> let's talk about, this there's a lot going on. i want to start with the indictment in the details. >> right. >> gold bars, a job maybe happened or didn't happen. money stuffed in jackets. mercedes, tell me about that? >> it's an astonishing level of detail. it reads almost like a bad episode of the sopranos, ali. what we have here is a sitting united states senator google searching the price of a kilo of gold, just as he is receiving a kilo of gold. then later not putting it on his financial disclosure form. we have codefendants in this case, giving him hundreds of thousands of dollars. then the fbi searches the apartment, and they find the fingerprints of those codefendants in the menendez home. we have stuff like the state department sharing sensitive information with them, who then threw his wife shares it with the foreign government. in this case, egypt.

this is an incredibly tight case. he has an uphill battle to climb. i will say this, the other thing this case really proves is that doj is not politicized. like jim jordan and others have said. >> right, this is a democrat, a long term, important democrat. >> this is a democratic attorney general who follow the facts wherever they tuck. that led to this indictment. i wouldn't know it here, ali, this is not the first democrat that this justice department has charged. right now, as we sit here at 30 rock in new york, the former chair of the democratic party in louisiana was serving time in federal prison for wire fraud. there were charges against the house speaker in illinois, madigan, for corruption charges. there are people on both sides

of the aisle who've been held account of this. >> let's talk about, if people have been following the story closely, as you said, there's a lot of detail. what is the alleged quid pro quo? >> it is that the senator would do favors, really, for these businessmen in new jersey. there is allegations that a halal meat manufacture airy that received the only -- they would be the only vendor to approve these type of certification from the egyptian government. there's a lot here. >> when senator menendez says, to the prosecutors, they wrote these charges as they wanted. and then he makes reference to his previous case. tell me about this. >> well, what's noteworthy here is the u.s. attorney, who is not making these charges. that's the u.s. attorney for the district of new jersey. who appropriately recused himself. we have the u.s. attorney, danielle williams, from the southern district of new york. the first african american to hold that job.

he, the attorney general, once told me about damian, he says, damien is the one who over prepares. the reason i bring that up now, he is the type of person who would not sign off on any type of politically motivated charge. these are really, really tight cases. if i were bob menendez, i would seriously think about trying to reach some type of plea agreement. >> there are several indictments here. some of them have to do with allegedly deleting texts and emails that investigators were otherwise able to retrieve. i want to just read one of the portions about this from the indictment. on or about january 29th, 2019, menendez called official to and spoke with him in an attempt, through advice and pressure, to cause a resolution of prosecution in the new jersey defendants behavior. in preparation for this call, menendez requested and received multiple text messages from nadine medina days about the

new jersey defendant. including the charges he was facing, which nadine menendez intern requested and received from hannah. menendez and medina menendez both subsequently deleted these messages. >> then he says at some point, stop texting. so this is a tight case. you have people on both sides -- on the government side, who are taking contemporaneous notes here. this is straight political interference, that a sitting united states senator has no business engaging in. if this is true, as the government alleges -- >> what happens? he's up for reelection. >> he is. >> but i don't want the timing

of these is, obviously we've all become experts on legal trials. >> if we could use his last trial as a litmus test. it was two and a half years from the announcement of the indictment to trail. in november, 2024, it's the next time that bob menendez faces election. this case is going to be ongoing, here. there are many calls for his resignation. we will see how that plays out. but if i were democrats in new jersey, i would seriously encourage him, even if he doesn't resign, not to stand for reelection again. that's not in the best interest of the democratic world. >> if convicted on all counts, that doesn't often happen, but if he does, he could face a maximum of 45 years behind bars. what is your sense of when and how any kind of plea negotiation would take place? >> you would think that they would have happened before now.

bob menendez is 69 years old. he could very well spend the rest of his life in prison. you would think that as a part of any plea negotiation, giving up his senate seat would be a part of that. maybe that is why now he is kind of dug in with these very strident statements. he and his lawyers, perhaps, want to use that as a negotiating trick. >> to see if he sticks around or not. thank you for being. here it's nice to have. you didn't you in real life. >> thank you for having me. >> i hope we have more time to talk. >> thank you very. much >> anthony coley. much more ahead, including a dramatic expansion on the ongoing autoworkers strike as thousands more workers join the picket line, they're about to get a history making visit on the picket line from the sitting president of the united states. we love more on that, ahead. ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing,

chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy, and save at trelegy.com there are some things that go better... together. burger and fries... soup and salad. thank you! like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. with voya, considering all your financial choices together... can help you make smarter decisions. for a more confident financial future. hey, a tandem bicycle. you can't do that by yourself. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure.

♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance...

so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ if we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow, we're focused on making plastics better today. >> court cases related to the

efforts to overturn the 2020 election are barreling ahead. the first trial in fulton

county, georgia, the severed case involving trump lawyers, kenneth chesebro, and sidney powell, will start mere weeks from now, october 23rd. legal motions for that severed case, we'll talk about that in a second, are flying left and right, showing just how little time is left. in anticipation -- in addition, we are anticipating big decisions related to the federal indictment of donald trump brought by the special counsel, jack smith. so a lot is happening. let's talk about it. joining me now is chris timmins, he's a former deputy chief district attorney who has tried both r. i. c. o. cases into cobb, and cobb counties in georgia, chris, good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> good to see you. to thank you for having me. >> we are all becoming experts on georgia state law and how it might be different from anyone else is. let's talk about this. chesbrough and sidney powell succeeded in getting their cases cleaned off, severed from the main bunch. to brett chesebro's defense, his main defense here is that he was acting as an attorney when he wrote these memos about fake electors.

tell me about that. can specially. that he wrote memos about things that were illegal to do and where the underpinning of the effort to overturn the election. but he says i was just being a lawyer. >> so they filed a motion today, it was a motion to suppress those memos, and not have them go before the jury. so the argument that is in play is what is referred to as the crime fraud exception in attorney-client privilege. everyone who has an attorney, they have that privilege. they have that privilege that they can turn their attorneys anything. we want people to be honest with their attorneys. however, there's an exception that -- we have a crime being planned between attorney and the client. which is referred to as the crime fraud exception. which all the information that

was once confidential is now open and can be pursued. >> what's the line, if on your attorney, and i come to you, what is the line, -- when did the crime fraud exception then start to apply? you are not just advising me and my attorney, but somehow you're involved. >> the line is time. you could tell me anything you want about type things you've done in the past. but if you start talking about things we are going to be doing in the future, then the crime fraud exception comes into play. it's really a timing thing. you could tell me about all the banks he robbed, you could tell me all the people you killed. but if you tell me about banks are going to rob in the future -- >> what's your obligation? >> at that, point you're supposed to notify the authorities or tell your client

not to do that anymore. you certainly have to go to the state bar, but you can't involve yourself. you should probably fire your client as well. >> if you are looking at this case and saying, all right, there's evidence that something was going on, and he says, that he's writing memos as an attorney. tell me how you evaluate? that >> it's a tough call. it really comes down to his subjective belief. did you believe he was acting as an attorney? something to lawfully overturn

an unlawful election. or did he think he was attempting to place the former president of the united states, or that time was the president of the united states, in attempting to overturn -- >> there's an interesting argument that comes a lot in the january 6th federal indictment. that is, the idea that what may have started as an effort to preserve donald trump's rights in the event that any of the audits or recounts or lawsuits went in his favor, at some point turned. it turned into an effort. it turned into a -- in georgia, they would call it a conspiracy. >> yes. >> that's the important part. there may have been, the trial will determine this, but there may have been a point where everybody was a lawyer was acting as a lawyer, and then they weren't. >> right, exactly. that's the point. when did you, if you knew that the election results in the state of georgia were legitimate, if you knew that joe biden won the election in georgia, and then should've had those electors voting for him at the electoral college, and you still proceeded to attempt to overturn the election in georgia, then at that point you switch from an attorney to a criminal. >> most people don't care that much about chesbrough and sidney powell. but we have to care about this, because it will be -- is it harbinger of what's to come in the case of the other defendants? >> absolutely, it's a preview. i think i see 80 to 90% of the states case that they're planning on putting up against the former president in this case. rico allows you to talk about everything that your coconspirators have done, and this particular case, powell and chesebro's coconspirators include the former president of the united states. i expect you're gonna hear a lot of evidence about what donald trump was up to. when i was a prosecutor, i was

pretty aggressive when i tried r. i. c. o. cases. i wanted the other side to see me coming. jon floyd is one of the attorneys in this case, come from the same cloth. john wants you to see him coming. so i suspect he's going to show the other side exactly what they've got. >> then it becomes a, you want to make a deal? >> for most of them. donald trump is not going to make a deal. >> chesebro submitted a list of 52 potential witnesses. that struck me as high, but i don't know much about these things. >> it is, but you're talking about a giant indictment. some of the folks he put on their i think are the folks that are suspected to be the unindicted coconspirators. so i think they won't have a chance to call them as witnesses. what i would do in that particular case, if i was on the defense, i would want to put them up and ask them, so, were you conspiring, did you agree to these unlawful acts? and have them say no. that's what they're probably going to do. >> are you familiar with the judge in this case? >> i am. >> tell me about them. >> judge mcatee, greg, judge he's a little on the young shy -- side as a judge, particularly from something on the side. >> 36? >> he is. he's a former prosecutor. which is good, this is a criminal case, it means he

knows the rules of criminal procedure in the state of georgia. more importantly, he knows the rules of evidence, which is crucial to a trial like. this >> possibly even more important, he's a bit of a performer. there's cameras in the courtroom. i believe as a young man in school, he was playing cello with his tongue, or something like that. he's not afraid of what cameras in the courtroom are going to bring. >> not at all. i think it's gonna be perfectly comfortable in this trial. i don't expect him to act any differently because there are cameras there than he would be normally. but yeah, very nice guy. very accomplished. very bright. they drew an excellent judge in this case. >> he's going to be a household name for us. we're going to get a little preview. >> for those who are a little older, lance ito, he's gonna be similar. >> he said he doesn't wanna be lance ito, because the whole world knew lancet, oh i think more people will be watching this trial then even watched og. >> the entire world will be watching this trial. -- >> chris, nice to meet you. >> thank you very much for your time. >> chris timmins. if you wanna catch up on all trump indictments -- the trump indictments containing all the charging --

complete and unabridged, it was edited and introduced by me, it comes out on monday. you can grab your coffee next week. keep it with you, because you're going to want to consult it. today's united auto workers -- today, the united auto workers president, shawn fain, give a video address to striking autoworkers, and issued this notable invitation. >> we invite and encourage everyone who supports our cause to join us on the picket line. from our friends and families, all the way up to the president of the united states. >> all the way up to the president of the united states. no sitting president has -- as far as i know, ever joined an active picket line before. that is all about to change. today, president biden tweeted, tuesday, all go to michigan to join the picket line and stand in solidarity with the men and women of uaw as they fight for a fair share of the value that they helped create. it's time for a win-win agreement that keeps american auto manufacturing thriving with well paid uaw jobs. just let that sit with you for a second. that's a tweet from the president of the united states. very different than the tweets we read a few years ago. a sitting president, walking a picket line, it is unprecedented. but this administration has shown unprecedented support for striking workers before. in the first year of president biden's administration, the agriculture secretary, todd will sack, joined striking john deer workers on the picket line in iowa. the same line -- marty walsh joined striking kellogg workers on the picket line in pennsylvania. now, joe biden is set to become the first sitting president in

modern history to pick a side in an ongoing labor dispute, and stand with the striking autoworkers. this is a major development. joining us now is the union leader, sarah nelson, she's the president of the association of flight attendants. sarah, you and i were just talking about this of the other day, whether the white house is prepared to put a thumb on the scale on this one. and how involved they will get. there was talk that the labor secretary and gene sperling we're going to go to the negotiations this week. that didn't happen. then this. am i making a big thing out of this? or is this a very big deal that the president is going to join these striking workers?

>> well, it should be a big deal. but it is a big deal. because this is unprecedented. it is happening because this president, at his core, is a labor guy. he believes in labor, he believes in labor rights, but it's also really happening. the real reason this is happening is because of the workers who are taking a stand, all across the country. and this strike is historic, with uaw, taking on the big three automakers all at once, never happened in history either. we're talking about a lot of firsts in history. but i've said for a long time, start in the workplace, and the politics will follow. that is what we are seeing here. >> something has happened. i want you to help me with this. because you and i have talked about strikes for several

months now. there are several ongoing, including the writers guild and sega, there are flight attendants who are poised to strike. there was the kings jurors who didn't strike. but there's a change in tone with a lot of these labor leaders where they are coming in and saying, these are the requests we have, you might think they are outsized, because they are ten times what you ever offer us. but they are not as much as what you bosses are making. they're not as much as what the shareholders are making. and by the way, this is the moment to strike. don't tell me to live to fight another day. this is actually when we are striking. >> so, ali, i want to be really clear, it's the companies that are choosing the strikes, not the other way around. you see that very clearly, workers are making their demands upfront. we are very clear about what our demands are. it has gone in the wrong

direction, for too long. essentially, since ronald reagan fired the air traffic controllers in 1981. it was open season on unions. and destruction of the strike. the strike is about coming to a deal. it is not above the strike. no worker wants to go on strike. but we want to go on strike when the company is not being fair. when they are not negotiating with us fairly. that has been going on for too long. so, what we've said, right up front, with our demands, is what we are willing to do. that's why u. p. s. settled. it was a credible strike threat, it was serious from the teamsters. that's what we're going to continue to see. the big three, apparently didn't get the message. >> let me ask you about this. tim scott, who's running for president, senator from south carolina, you just mentioned ronald reagan in the air traffic controller strike. this is what he said at a

campaign stop in iowa. >> ronald reagan gave us a great example, when federal lawyers cited on the strike, you strike you fired, civil content to me. use that once again, absolutely. >> now, sara, you and i talk a lot because you're a national labor leader in the country. you don't have to be a labor leader to understand the basic law in this country. you can't actually do it ten scotch a set. you can't tell people, if you, start your fired. >> he's interfering with workers right here. that's why the uaw filed an unfair labor practice against him. he doesn't have the right to do that. and he's also confusing the fact that ronald reagan fired the federal workers, which conceivably he was their boss. the president, and the government is not the boss of the uaw workers. he's got the whole thing confused here. and especially he's completely out of touch with the country. he's completely out of touch with where we are right now.

where workers are saying, we have had enough. we are going to come together, no matter what, take our fair share. because this economy, as shawn fain has been saying, it's been working for the billionaires, it hasn't been working for the working class. we're going to wreck their economy, we're going to build up our own. >> let's talk about support, about where things stand. again, after the air traffic controllers strike, it was open season on unions. but take a look at some recent polling from reuters and ipsos, for the support for the strikers among all americans. for the auto workers, 58% support, 32% oppose. for the hollywood strikes, 60% support, 27% oppose. now, that's all americans. let's look at this even amongst republicans. for the autoworkers, more support than oppose. 48% support, 47% oppose. for the hollywood strikes, it's a dead heat. so the bottom line is, public

support is on the side of the unions. even in matters where it will affect the public. whether it's the tv you watch, or the partials you don't get delivered, or that cars you're not going to buy, that i want to cost you more. or in the case of flight attendants who strike, the flights you won't fly on. what has happened? why is the public -- why is public sentiment changed so far in favor of workers? >> because the public understands that going along with the rulebook that has been in place for the last 40, 50 years, doesn't work. the idea that the corporate league has said to us, you should feel lucky to have a drop. the entire country, as i, know you should feel lucky to have our work. we do not go to work -- we don't live to go to work. we go to work to live. and so, this is what we are doing. we are taking a stand across the country. and people are identifying with what the auto workers are doing, with what the writers and actors are doing. with what grocery workers did before them. teachers. this has been across every single industry, because it has been about taking all of the productivity of our work, making us work harder for less.

and everyone understands that. so, the demands are the same. these tiered demands to get rid of the tears of the autoworkers, you can see that in every single industry. for a certain set of workers, treated differently than others. the jig is up. we know. we know the playbook now. the playbook of us sitting back, and saying that we can only think about ourselves, and stay within our own cocoon, and we are going to be okay, and we can pick ourselves up by our boot straps and to better. that, that ship has sailed. >> what a time to be. life >> we've got one more story for you tonight, -- what that could mean for the future of ukraine self-determination is next. dangerous virus... [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today.

[car traversing over uneven ground.] [silence in the vehicle.] talk to your pharmacist or doctor... [car traversing over rocky ground, babbling creek in the background.] [minimalist piano enters, plays throughout.] (dad) we got our subaru forester wilderness [heavy sound of water coming from waterfall.] [heavy sound of water stops abruptly.] to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. [heavy sound of water from waterfall re-enters.] (vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. - they slept on me for 15 years.

things i collected, pollen, dust, dander. all that time they could have protected me with an allerease mattress protector. it would've been soft and blocked 99.9% of dust, dirt, and allergens. allerease for a clean, healthy night's sleep. i've struggled with generalized myasthenia gravis. but the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. vyvgart is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-achr antibody positive. in a clinical trial, vyvgart significantly improved most participants' ability to do daily activities when added to their current gmg treatment. most participants taking vyvgart also had less muscle weakness. and your vyvgart treatment schedule is designed just for you. in a clinical study, the most common side effects included urinary and respiratory tract infections, and headache. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions.

available as vyvgart for iv infusion and now as vyvgart hytrulo for subcutaneous injection. additional side effects for vyvgart hytrulo may include injection site reactions. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart. >> the goal of the present war

against ukraine is to turn our land, our people, our lives, our resources into a weapon against you. against the international, rules based order. >> it's been quite a week for the ukrainian president,

volodymyr zelenskyy. first, addressing the united states general assembly in person in new york city on tuesday. before meeting with president joe biden at the white house yesterday. today, nbc news is reporting that president biden told zelenskyy that the united states will provide ukraine with a small number of long-range missiles to aid them in the war with russia. the army tactical missile system known as atacms would allow ukraine to strike targets as far as 180 miles away, including ones well behind russian frontlines. now this move represents a significant victory for zelenskyy who has been asking for these weapons for months. maybe difficult to recall today, but at the onset of russia's war on ukraine, some doubted that zelenskyy's leadership would be enough to fight for his country. now, nearly a year and seven months since russia's invasion, zelenskyy has emerged as a

global symbol for -- his presence in washington this week underscores another important point. that this war is not over. victory maybe ten u.s. at best. winter in ukraine was relatively mild last year are, across europe it was relatively mild. that helped. that may not be the case this time around, presenting a huge obstacle for ukraine's military. what zelenskyy has a strong ally in the biden administration light now, the long term viability of that support does hinge on the result of next year's presidential election. joining me now is a retired army lieutenant colonel, alexander vindman. former director for european affairs at the national security council. colonel, good to see you again. thank you for being with us today. >> thanks, ali. >> let me ask you about this. let's get back to those days before the war, where there were people in ukraine who had not voted for volodymyr zelenskyy because they knew that there would be trouble with russia and they weren't sure this guy was up to the task. there was people in america, in our intelligence and military establishment that hot thought

this is not gonna be that guy. the americans offered to take him out of ukraine. he refused. they offered to relocate his government to western ukraine. he refused. he posted videos of himself starting on night one in kyiv, and said i'm here. what a distance we've come from that night. >> he is definitely come into his own much more comfortable than he was at the beginning of his tenure, where he was inexperienced and wasn't sure he could tackle what seemed like insurmountable problems like corruption, domestic corruption, figuring out how to navigate a war with russia. this is before it expanded out in 2022. now he's a world leader. he demonstrated this this week at the un general assembly. he took what seemed to a lot of people like a remote conflict between russia and ukraine and indicated how it actually affects the globe, whether it's energy shocks driven by russia, or food shocks. food security or the fact that the russians are toying with some sort of nuclear extortion around the threats to destroy a nuclear power plant.

he tried to bring it home to the populations at large. i think he was largely successful, with the exception of the republican party. mccarthy, speaker mccarthy refused to speak to. refused to allow him to speak to a joint session of congress. and didn't allow him to have that platform, to speak before the country. to make the case why this war is important. not just ukraine, not just to europe, but to the u.s. and global security. unfortunately, that's the nature of the republican party. and we have some headwinds there with a future funding, as you pointed, out with a future election in 2024, where the tides could turn. and ukraine could be cut off. it was a very successful week. >> this is interesting. this is why people should read your book -- this is full circle for you. the whole thing started because congress was united behind supporting ukraine militarily,

or at least with funding. and donald trump got on a phone call, and tried to stop that. you heard that. and you went unreported up the food chain, that were stored in the first impeachment of donald trump. it used to be that congress was all on the same side as this. i think with one or two exceptions. very very rare, the exceptions. what has happened now? what is happening to this republican party? where they are actually putting in doubt, our preparedness to stand behind ukraine until this is over. >> what's shocking is that the allies of donald trump, in those moments, where rudy giuliani. this kind of lawyer, henchmen.

he didn't find that many allies for his schemes. he, had his family, his trump network. he wasn't successful, certainly i reported as corruption. since he's managed to co-opt swaths of the republican party, certainly the 70 congressman who voted to cut aid back in the summer were a part of this block. marjorie taylor greene, mike lee, ron johnson, speaker mccarthy. they are all now the same kinds of henchmen that trump had back in the scheme in 2019. resulting in the first impeachment.

but they are carrying water. they are the ones playing towards some sort of miraculous negotiation with russia. handing russia a win. trying to, frankly, undermine u.s. security by undermining one of our closest allies. an ally that is carrying the war and destroying a military that would threaten to destroy us if they had the capacity to do so. so what's amazing is that there's just an enormous amount of continuity between those historical moments, resulting in the first impeachment, and now the capture of the republican party, that is doing the same work for donald trump. >> i was in kyiv with your brother on the anniversary of the war. you and i were in kyiv shortly thereafter. i don't think any of us knew or thought that this war would be going on at this point. certainly not expecting it to go to two years. remember, this was a war that russia experts and western experts thought would be over in a matter of days. but it's getting desperate for zelenskyy. poland has said they are going to sort of do a little less than they had been. we've got this question with america. where are we right now? what's going to happen? zelenskyy needs to win this war. that's not a given. >> i think the fact is that the ukrainians are having a relatively successful go of it. it's hard to tell by looking at a map and the lines moving forward, from the ukrainian advancement. they are making significant strides. they are just reducing russia's ability to defend those heavy fortifications. they are making gains, they're

making penetrations. but the things that are most apparent, so that is happening behind the scenes, to experts, it's clear that the ukrainians are making some sort of gains. they are not going to be able to break the russian military, they're not going to be able to break the russian land breaks, what they are going to do is get some significant gains, territorially, by the end of the full. but look at the things that they have accomplished. they struck the southern military district. they crushed the black sea fleet headquarters. destroyed this really -- kind of a jewel of the city of sevastopol. a blow to russian power. one of the reasons that this war began in 2014 is that russia want today home for its black sea. this was always going to be a flash point. it was a flash point from 1991, when ukraine separated and

crimea fell under ukrainian control. and now it's vulnerable. that is not a safe place to be. the black sea fleet is vulnerable, the whole reason for this war, at least one of the major reasons for this war, starting in 2014, is now been on done by this foolhardy attacks starting in february 2022. >> yeah, that is an important point. that the black sea fleet was short of central to this whole operation. of course to point out this started in 2014. i'm always reminded when i'm in ukraine that people say, remember, this has been going on for a long time. we are in the tenth year, i, guess almost the 11th year of fighting. colonel, good to see what, as always, thank you for joining us. thank you for being with us throughout this entire thing to help our audience understand exactly what's going on across the world. lieutenant colonel, lieutenant colonel alexander vindman is the former director of european affairs for the national security council and the author of here right matters. an important book. that's our show for tonight. i'm ali velshi in for alex wagner. you can catch me back here on msnbc at 10 am eastern tomorrow. time now for the last word with jonathan capehart, who is in for lawrence. wow, i feel a little guilty about this, jonathan. you are going to be starting -- i'm going to bed earlier than, you and you're gonna be getting up a lot earlier than i am. >> yeah, now i know how it felt.