would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? >> crunch time with less than a what, we have a ton of mulch. week to overtake government shutdown, speaker mccarthy predicts the republican holdouts will come around at the last minute. i will ask congressman brandon

boyle and gregory meeks if he is right, or if that is just wishful thinking. much to do about nothing with no evidence just days before the government runs out of money, republicans are focused instead on their impeachment inquiry into president biden. a veteran of a legit impeachment process, congressman stacey closs minutes here to talk about that. and round two, republican presidential candidates hold their second debate this week, the front runners -- counter programming but so is president biden. good morning, i'm jonathan capehart, katie phang is off, today this is a special two hour edition of the sunday show. i'm still, here in just six calendar days, the government will run out of money unless they can come on to an agreement over to government shutdown. all eyes are on house speaker kevin mccarthy.

it is like watching some for slope try to -- feral cats at the -- yesterday mccarthy returned to the capitol and held a conference call to discuss the path ahead. to try to hammer out something for them to vote on this week. the house rules committee was also at work saturday, preparing for appropriations bills that would cover funding for the department of defense, agriculture, state, and homeland security. i mean, this is the least they can do, as president biden pointed out last night in a speech to the congressional black caucus in washington. >> funding the government, the most basic responsibility of congress, and it is time for the public to start doing the job america elected them to do. >> and yet, far right members of the republican house majority continue to threaten to withhold their votes and a potential deal. that has one mccarthy ally breathing fire. >> the arsonist that their

house on fire, they're warning about their house burning, they are going to want credit for putting the fire out, then they will set up a gofundme to get paid for what happened. this is really disingenuous. what we need to be doing right now, what we should be doing months ago, is not blocking the appropriations bills as we saw -- >> but mccarthy remains optimistic that he can get the votes to pass something. >> should americans expect a shutdown at this point? >> no, i, mean listen, that is on the first. we still have a number of days. i think this is for the standpoint of, have i never -- and i think when it gets to crunch time, people are finding that i have been holding off all those, time blaming everybody else to find and hopefully move on. >> hope springs eternal, mister speaker. joining me now the ranking member of the house budget committee, while the ranking member of the house foreign

affairs committee new york on chrisman gregory meats, and the ranking member of the house budget committee pennsylvania congressman brandon boyle. gentlemen, thank you both very much for coming back to the sunday show. i'm going to start with you congressman meeks since you are here next week, but this is a question for both of you, six days to go, a week from today the government could well possibly be shut down. will it be shut down a week from today? >> look i'm concerned about what has kevin mccarthy been able to do since he is speaker? we had procedural votes last week twice, they failed. so he has not shown that he can get his groove together. basically what he has done, talking about now doing individual spending bills, is giving into the right-wing maga republicans. so i have -- i hope we can get something done, because we do not need a shut down which would hurt the people. one thing i would not add to

that, john within, we have -- we were in the majority. we had five votes willis to do, and we did our jobs. >> right, and congressman boil, you are the ranking member on the budget committee, do you think a week from today we will be talking about the fact that the government has run out of money? that it is shut down? >> well thanks for being, on great to be here with both of you. i can tell you, kevin mccarthy being confident about winning a vote does not fill me with confidence. he was confident he was going to be elected speaker the first time as well, he also -- both of those role votes we are going to pass this week. for the first time in 20 years, the house speaker and house majority lost the procedural vote. then they went on to lose it again just two days later. so this is a crowd that can't shoot straight, and even to the most simple things. but you know, there was one success over the last nine months. one truly bipartisan success.

that was the bill we passed in june to raise the debt ceiling. 80% of house democrats joined 67% of house republicans to pass that legislation, and also passed the senate and will signed into law by president biden. then kevin mccarthy went about -- on that deal, in order to appease his extreme maga caucus. if he would stop going on that deal, return to pass the congress in june, we could and this literally this week, and ensure the american people do not suffer from a government shutdown. >> but congressman boil, i mean, that is common sense. that is right. that is exactly what should happen. but if the speaker does that, he will lose the gavel, won't he? >> well, he may lose the gavel, but he is frankly too afraid to risk it. it is about time kevin mccarthy cares more about the jobs of the american people, and not

his own job first and foremost. because, again, i go back to june, kevin mccarthy should call the extreme maga caucus bluff, rather than constantly attempting to appease them. i mean right now, it is marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz who are holding sway over the caucus, literally the plan for this week's i understand it, with a c r that would include something like 27% budget cuts, and doing individual appropriation bills, it was matt gates who came up with this plan. now kevin mccarthy has more london. so if he could develop a backbone to stand up to them, and work with us, we know we have a big bipartisan majority to ensure that we don't face a shutdown. because, a shutdown is painful. the last several have cost at least six billion dollars to the economy according to the congressional budget office. >> you know, congressman, see

our with 27% budget, cuts i mean that is zero democratic votes. >> that is correct. what we had was a deal during the debt ceiling, to set the standard of what the agreement would be. moving forward, as opposite of what the senate has done, the senate has come out with something based upon the debt ceiling deal. what they have done, again based upon the maga republicans, they have a raced the deal. we have lit laid out so we could have the bipartisan deal done. all they have to do is keep the deal that was made, when we did the that ceiling. my going back on the, it shows they are right. they are the right way michael republicans are controlling what is taking place in the united states house of representatives. kevin mccarthy is not standing up for even the majority of his

congress, he has the right wing maga people threatening to take away her seat, and he has to stand up to them to make a difference. to make sure our khanna, me and -- republicans talking about a lot of things, and -- we have lowered inflation, and go into a shut down on talking a game, they do not deliver a thing. they do not do anything for the benefit of the american people. we are putting politics, they put politics over people. you put people over politics. >> real quickly in less than a minute left. to congressman boyle's point about matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene holding sway over the republican party, i'm wondering, how much sway does former president donald trump hold sway over this conference? one of the conditions marjorie taylor greene put out, there and a bunch of others, is defund the special prosecutor,

the fund funding to ukraine, and also to -- i'm sorry, to impeach a -- against biden just to get her vote on budget bills or a continuing resolution, or what? are they really do the bidding of donald trump here? >> every one of them. even the moderates have already endorsed donald trump. that just shows his influence on this process overall. he controls it. it is the republican party. it is the donald trump party. look at the primary, it is what it is. we know -- >> congressman boyle, let me give you the last word real quick -- >> well, i want to reiterate that the shutdown comes at a real cost. there will be millions of workers that would be furloughed. we saw in 2013 as well as 2018, a real hit to the economy. but if it happens, it will be like every previous shut down.

these only happen when republicans are in charge of at least one chamber of congress. the way to prevent this though, the way out, is for kevin mccarthy to work with house democrats. if he does that, we can avoid it, otherwise unfortunately, there will be a shutdown. >> with that, we will have to leave it there. congressman gregory meads, congressman boyle, thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. still to come, former trump impeachment manager congressman stacey plaskett joins me on set live with a preview into the flimsy impeachment inquiry into president biden, and why may end up being a political disaster for the gop ahead of decision 2024. cision 2024. gum health. it kills 99% plaque bacteria. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. meet the team... behind the team. the coach.

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a government shutdown, republicans will somehow finds the time to move forward with their effort to impeach president biden. on thursday, two days before the government runs out of money, the house oversight committee is scheduled to hold its first impeachment inquiry hearing. a spokesman for the committee says the focus will be on constitutional and legal questions around allegations of the presidents involvement in his son, hunter biden, it is overseas business. we should point out that after months of investigating, republicans have yet to find any real evidence of wrongdoing. house judiciary hearing with attorney general merrick garland earlier this week gave us a preview of what to expect.

>> hunter biden was put on the -- made a lot of money, got paid a lot of money over those areas. >> you know the president bringing hunter biden around, state dinners. >> millions of dollars of ill gotten and undeclared income to hunter biden. >> hunters nature, tax offenses. >> hunter biden. >> hunter biden. >> hunter biden. >> joining me now, congressman stacey plaskett from the virgin islands. also a former trump impeachment manager. congressman, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show, especially since it cbc weekend. last night was the big dinner. >> anything for you, jonathan. >> oh, i appreciate that. why republicans continuing to move forward with this even though they have no evidence and they've gone on record and said, look, we don't have any evidence? >> sure, it's really a notion of destruction, of projection.

they want to distract us from the notion that they've done nothing in congress during this term thus far. we've had a debt ceiling crisis, now, with a shutdown crisis. but the things they said they were gonna do to support the american people have not been done. they can't even get an agenda together. so, instead of doing that, they like the american people to look at the shiny -- over here, rather than your every day what you can see in your face. >> now, you were an impeachment manager at the second impeachment of donald trump for inciting the january 6th insurrection. >> but something pretty big. >> right, really big. talk about what it's like to run a real impeachment process. >> i think, as you saw, in the case of -- the first impeachment, which was after, involving ukraine, right? and trying to extort the

ukrainian government. this one being an actual incitement, the speaker was very reluctant however to do one especially in the first impeachment. it really took the work of the media and individuals like yourself, journalists, able to bring us enough evidence to say, you know, we have to see, we have multiple hearings about it. notice also that this is not even an impeachment about the president. the actions of the president. its actions of assad, who is not a member of the government at the time. i think this goes back to the projection that republicans always do, where it's really, what they have done, if they're trying to project on other people. in this instance, let's look at what trump did, right? he had a hotel right here in washington. it said that he potentially enticed individuals or made it obvious that governments should go and use those services. and then he has a son, a

son-in-law and daughter who actually worked in the white house. they were on the payroll for the federal government. the day after the power shifts, they have two billion dollars in the account for a foreign government that we were in negotiation what. >> right, you're talking with a two billion dollars the son-in-law got from the saudi sovereign fund. let's not forget the 40 trademarks or so that ivanka trump, senior white house official, got during the administration. you're not on the oversight committee, you're on the weaponization committee. >> yes. >> so -- >> projection. >> right, how does this impeachment inquiry differ from whatever it is y'all are doing on the weaponization committee. >> unfortunately, what i think we're gonna see is everybody raising their hand on the republican party saying, well, i haven't done anything in my district, i haven't helped the american people, can i have a

piece of the impeachment inquiry? so, kevin mccarthy is force now to expand this to everyone. you're gonna see stuff in the ways and means committee, if you can believe it, with jason smith also trying to be involved. the oversight committee, judiciary committee. let's not forget what they think they're going to get out of mayorkas in the impeachment there. homeland security as well. let's spread the wealth, everybody, speaker mccarthy says, because i don't have anything else for you to be able to show to your constituents that the base that you've done, let's do the worst best thing which is investigating our president. >> how likely is it that a week from today, when you'll be at home and not here that will be talking about the fact the government is him day one of the shutdown? >> well, you know, we saw that kevin mccarthy, it took 15

votes for him to become just the speaker. something that has not happened many times in our country. we also saw him come to, you know, the collapse of the government as well with the debt ceiling negotiation. so, no telling how long it will take for kevin mccarthy to be able to get this done. i know leader jeffries, and democrats, they've always stood ready to follow the word of our agreement and that debt ceiling engagement and that he has made himself available. leader jeffries, along with the rest of the leadership to negotiate something so that americans can get they need, right? we know that veterans, i mean, military service members paychecks are at stake. meals on wheels will have to stop if there is a government shutdown. so many -- the border, which their public and say they claim to care so much about, it will also have a shortage of customs and border

protection officers and others there. we've got to stay here in washington and get it done. >> congressman stacey plaskett, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> thank you, it was a pleasure. >> coming, up by sunday morning political panel will discuss what to expect at the second republican presidential debate set for this wednesday in california. most of the main candidates will be there to, except for the front runner -- and brian stelter are ready to weigh in. keep it right here on msnbc. t here on msnbc. bring it to safelite. my customer was enjoying her new car, when her windshield cracked. [gasp] >> customer: my car! >> tech vo: she didn't take it to the dealer. she scheduled with safelite. we have the latest technology for the newest vehicles. and we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: don't wait-- schedule now. ♪ pop music ♪

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two. seven candidates appeared or of qualified for wednesday's debate at the ronald reagan presidential library. the higher thresholds to qualify has only not former arkansas governor, is that hutchinson, from the debate stage. once again, the front runner for the nomination will not be in attendance.

instead, donald trump will deliver a competing speech to union workers in detroit amid the ongoing ua strike. but the wall street journal editorial board is calling him out. the board writes, quote, why is mr. trump afraid to confront other republicans without the aid of a teleprompter? is he worried he'd look his age at 77 next to younger candidates? voters deserve to hear him defend his record and his platform. joining me now, msnbc political analyst, brendan buck. also joining, senior adviser to the lincoln project, terrace that mayer. and vanity fair special correspondent and author of network of lies, brian stelter. thank you all very much for being here. brendan, let me start with you. seven republicans have qualified for the debate. they plan to appear on the debate stage on wednesday. are there any new strategies you're expecting to see from the candidates? might one of them actually say the words donald trump and then

something negative about him after doing so? >> yeah, well, obviously there's a lot they left behind last time that they could've done and didn't. a lot like what that editorial said. donald trump got through in the first debate without inflicting, having any damage inflicted upon him. it showed in the polls. you know, he basically skated by without having to answer to the fact that he's dodging questions. that seems like a very obvious safe place for any of those people on that stage to raise. where are you? are you taking these voters for granted? do you not have a level of respect for them that you feel like you shouldn't explain yourself to them? now, that sounds nice tunnel. if you're donald trump, you're leading by 40 points, you probably don't care. what you need to do, if you're those people on the stage, donald trump is not there, you need to make him feel the need to be there at the third debate. look, if we don't have any dramatic change in this race after the second debate, the third debate probably doesn't really matter. they need to go directly at him

and then flip some damage on him or he feels an obligation to show up and defend himself. really just trigger his ego and get him on the stage. if they keep having these debates, with him not there, continuing to run away in the polls, the race is effectively over and the debates are pretty much meaningless at that point. >> tara, as a result of the last debate in the time between that last debate and now, vivek ramaswamy and nikki haley have been gaining momentum. do you think it was enough of a bump that they'll be targets of attacks at the second debate? >> possibly, we're just watching the greatest reality competition for second place right now. none of this matters. it's the primary, it's over. it has been since donald trump decided to declare he's running again. this is an exercise in political futility here. the fact that vivek ramaswamy who is a con artist and a

wannabe has propelled himself now into second place in some places, in new hampshire and others, it's just extraordinary to me. it tells you where the republican party is. this guy doesn't belong anywhere near anybody stage, he is not a serious person. nikki haley scored points during the last debate. i think she actually won it. it just shows you that these are the people, and you think any one of them can take on donald trump directly? no, they cannot. the ship has long sailed for the republican party to coalesce around the same candidate. they made that decision when they decided not to offer up donald trump more than once, particularly after he incited the violent insurrection, for god sakes. so, this is all the media, all of us in politics, watching a horse race. but it is an exercise in futility, it doesn't make a bit of difference. >> so, brian, we've been talking about the person who is the number one person in the race, that is the former

president. this is the second time in this primary that he's skip to the debate and this holding his own thing, doing his own counter programming. how effective of a strategy is that for him? >> counter programming didn't really help him during the first debate, no one really cared about his interview with tucker carlson. then again, didn't hurt him in the polls to skip to the stage. it arguably helped him in the polls by snubbing the debate. here we are again, another snub. actually, this debate does matter, even though it's a vp debate. it matters because of the questions that are asked, as well as the answers. here's what i mean by that. trump is on the stage a couple months ago, he said, when i talk about tax cuts, y'all. yuan when i talk to transgender issues, you will get up and cheer. he understood that animates his base, and much of the republican party, are those culture war issues and directing hate towards minority groups. that, you know, that comment from trump, it was sadly insightful. and questions better onstage, the fox moderators can ask

about substance. we'll see if they do or not. but they can challenge these candidates to actually have policy arguments and debates and not just culture wars, do not i mean? i think that matters. the questions still matter. >> right, the questions still matter, i mean, i dipped in for a little bit to watch that first debate. i dipped in right there is a question asked about ufos. so, i don't hold out much hope of, you know, too much of a deep dive on policy issues. brennan, i would love your perspective of, does it really help to have a candidate, the specially one who is, you know, leading in the polls, to sketch of a. i understand trying to hold on to their lead and not doing anything to hurt it. at some point, politically, what we have to take the debate stage. >> i haven't seen any evidence

suggesting he needs to. he made a but the first time around, somehow this hurt him, he went down the polls, he showed the next time. all this happened in the meantime's numbers have gone up. at some point, there is gonna be an election, there's probably an expectation there's gonna be a debate between donald trump and joe biden. having some experience and debating may help a little bit. unless people call him out, unless people make him pay a price for not showing up, no, i don't think this matters at all. i think it's a political thing to do, it's a low risk, and it's working out for him. >> tara, now, i understand, brandon is right, if you have a gigantic lead, there is no need for you to show up for a debate. i just wonder, when it comes to donald trump, is staying away from the debate stage may be part of the legal strategy? once he's out there on the stage, he says all sorts of things that get him into

trouble. you can't commit perjury from a debate stage. you can give an awful lot of evidence that can be used to trial. >> yeah, but you're summing donald trump is following a legal strategy. he saying all kinds of crazy things on his truth social network all the time that can be used against him. every single debate, every single interview he, goes those words can also be used against him. i don't think that's the calculus here for the debate stage. i agree with brandon, from a political perspective, normal politics, you don't put your candidate on the stage in europe 50 points. why would you do that? there's nothing good that can come from that, it's unnecessary. it also gives credence to the other lower level candidates that you're putting them at the same level as you. from pure political perspective, no, he doesn't need to debate. now, in general election, absolutely he should debate president biden because the american people need to see the contrast. they should have a robust conversation about the issues and the future of the country.

in this primary, no, absolutely not. whirl is something that donald trump follows anybody strategy. come on, he's a narcissist, he does what he once. >> yeah, that is true. i was just asking as a point of information. brendan, tara, brian, they're sticking with me to continue our conversation after a quick break. don't go anywhere, we have much more the sunday show ahead. unday show ahead on a hard seltzer budget... wayfair's got just what you need! what... y'all this is nice. salad plates? kelly clarkson? i'm fancy now! i have always wanted statement lighting. get nice things at nice prices at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ teeth sensitivity is so common. it immediately feels like somebody's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patents say: “you know doc, it really works."

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capitol moving truck to his office pretty soon, because my expectation would be he'd be at the speaker's office quite promptly. >> oh darn, congressman matt gaetz, maybe the -- four republican dysfunction. in the face of impending government shutdown, he's doing all he can to politically torment speaker kevin mccarthy, including floating around a motion to remove mccarthy's speaker should he attempt to short term spending bill. but if you zoom out, you can see the real roots of republican craziness. one of the key factors, medium medical and architecture fox ne, rupert murdoch, who announced he is stepping down as chairman this week, as a column in the new york times noted, rupert murdoch's umpire used passion in grievance as fuel and turned it into money and power. i'm back with brendan -- brian, you are the expert on fox news. talk a little bit about the legacy of rupert murdoch and the influence his empire of conservative news has had on

today's republican party. >> look, in a word, in one word, the legacy is division. this is a much more divided country because of what rupert murdoch could've fox news more than a quarter century ago. there is right-wing talk radio before, the ripon floods, but he supercharge this far-right ecosystem, really a network of lies, if i can use the name for my forthcoming book, in order to create an alternative that's not rooted in reality, it's not rooted in reality the way the what rest of the american media is. instead, we're in a fantasy, dragging america back to the past. that was a miserable murdaugh's legacy. and yeah, he's a diminished figure now. i've been talking with murdaugh world sources this weekend trying to figure out why did he do this now? what did he announce his retirement this week. right now, there doesn't seem to be an imminent health crisis, although he's 92 years old. you have to wonder about his health. it does seem to be that he's trying to show his son, lachlan, is the chosen son. he doesn't want some sort of attempt at a takeover of his company's. he wants his son, lachlan, in charge. he's trying to hand power over.

it will see if it works. but i think we have to look back and say, you know, what he did to the country has caused profound polarization division. i think about it as a neighborly thing, right, jonathan? harder to speak to your neighbors, that's reports legacy. >> wow, and brendan, you know, you are the chief aide to two speakers of the house, republican speakers of the house, john banner and paul ryan. i would love to hear from you about how much impact, how much of an impact fox news and what it was doing had on your bosses when they were in the leadership. >> incredible impact, particularly crime time. fox primetime drove narratives and the perception of what we were doing day in and day out. i remember when i was working for john boehner, we had members come to us and say, can you please go talk to sean hannity? can you do sean hannity show? during the act every once in a while would make members feel so much better.

it really was the pulse of what voters were thinking and the pivot of our voters, what they cared about. that influences a little more spread around these days. there's a lot of other folks outside fox that have a lot of sway. particularly, at the time i was there, you know, you couldn't do anything without making sure that folks on fox news or at least hearing from you. >> you know, tara, one of the big impacts of fox news is taking that passion from the audience, that then bubbled up into people running for office. this then had them being elected to office. it has led them or lead us to the point now where a week from today we could be in day one of a government shutdown. we have people who aren't interested in governing, they're interested in doing something else. i want to replay the comments from congressman garrett graves of louisiana, talking about people within his own republican conference and what they're doing in terms of

keeping a budget deal from getting done. watch this. >> the arsonist fell at their house on fire, they're whining about their house burning, they're gonna want credit for putting the fire out, and then they're gonna set up a gofundme to get paid for what happened. this is really disingenuous. what we need to be doing right now and what we should have been doing months ago is not blocking the appropriations -- we saw. >> i mean, tara, that right there is the legacy of fox news. >> yeah, 100%. i mean, you know, a lot of these republicans who've been elected now, that are part of this merry band of chaos carnival clowns letter in congress led by matt gaetz, boebert, and others, they're auditioning for fox news contracts. how many of them have gone into congress, served one or two terms, they go to become hosts on fox news? i mean, this is not what house

of representatives is supposed to be. it's not supposed to be in auditioning platform for fox news. that's what it's become. it's not about governing anymore. their political pyromaniac's. you have kevin mccarthy who's out here as a speaker who seems to be a political masochist because he continues to try to engage these people and bring them together to do something when they're not interested in doing it. he still takes that humiliation. fox news has been the foundation for a lot of this. they've fueled so much of it, not only what's happening in the house, but the rise of donald trump. it was fox news who gave donald trump a segment back in 2010 and 11 when he was pushing the -- conspiracy theories. as fox news who gave sarah palin the platform for goodness sakes, after she embarrassed herself and she was the vice presidential candidate. i mean, fox news has really been part of the rot in our political system. rupert murdoch and the lincoln project, we put this out. rupert murdoch has been or the

most dangerous immigrants ever come to this country, given the power and influence that he has had over the zeitgeist and political behavior that we have seen in this country. it's a shame what he has done with that legacy. i wish i had enough time to repeat back to some of the powerful one liners you had there, but we are completely out of time. brian stelter, brian buck, thank you so much for coming to the sunday show. and coming up, i am not going anywhere. a defiant senator bob menendez face a new federal bribery charges this week. how he's responding to the new indictment, and the growing calls for fellow democrats ran to resign. that's next. at's next. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪

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congressman, andy cam. he announced yesterday that he is running for the senate. his senator menendez faces pressure from fellow democrats to resign. he and his wife, nadine, are expected to appear in court this wednesday to face federal bribery and corruption charges. prosecutors allege he used his office to benefit three new jersey businessmen and the egyptian government in exchange for hundreds of thousands of dollars and bribes, which included gold bars, cash, and a luxury car. senator menendez and his wife have denied the allegations, senator claims this is all a smear campaign against him. in a statement, he says four years, forces behind the scenes have reportedly attempted to silence my voice. joining me, now charles coleman junior. msnbc legal, analysts civil rights attorney, former brooklyn prosecutor, and host of the charles coleman podcast. charles, as always, thank you for coming to the sunday show. this indictment comes after a

years-long justice department investigation. and, fact this is the senator's second time facing corruption related offenses since becoming a senator. how damning is this case? >> jonathan, it certainly appears that the case the governor has put together is complete. he's entitled to defend msf, but what i can tell you is that the resources that go into conducting an investigation of this nature are not going to -- the sun on purpose. there's a reason that most will settle at the federal government, as opposed to going to trial. the reason, as they usually have pre-established cases. i was thinking the senator menendez defense, it really doesn't matter the sources, where they come from, necessarily, if they can establish the truth, they can establish that these crimes occurred, then the senate

committee can convict him and you can go to jail. he has every right to defend himself, like any defendant does out there, and there may be an attempt -- but if he did these, things that in no way impedes the federal government for moving forward in terms of prosecution, just like anyone else. >> charles, in his statement, senator menendez had prosecutor said, quote, misrepresented the normal work of a congressional office. is that argument going to fly? >> well, it could fly when it comes to the alleged access that is provided, where connections that are made between people, or for nationalists in the united states government. i think that's a tricky line. for senator menendez position, to have someone over foreign services, they could potentially carry some weight with respect to that charge. , however they're talking about the acceptance of certain -- the talking before in cars,

copious amounts of cash. that in no way, shape, or form, -- of their house of the united states congress. i think that something that is really going to cross the line under any circumstances. there are certain acts alleged in the indictment that senator menendez may be able to debate. when it comes to it, the actual bribes, the nature that they are, that's just not something that you are going to be able to sell legally, little onshore jury. >> charles, they're expected in court on wednesday for a hearing, what do you expect? >> while this is going to be a normal arraignment. they'll read the indictment, senator may plead not guilty. -- either way, i don't expect him,

he or his wife, but at that point that is when the trial is scheduled. they will set this for discovery to go forward. we may, possibly, get some inkling of a defense strategy in terms of the cases, as they respond to the judge, and the initial indictment and open court. i wouldn't expect that too much. it's just going to be the arraignment, and senator menendez's initial not guilty plea, somewhat of a schedule going forward around how things will proceed. >> charles, there have been multiple now calls for senator menendez to resign. just as a legal tactic, or legal point, of always wonder this. especially when elected officials, particularly federal officials, get caught up, indicted, and something like this. is, could resignation be part of the deal? part of a plea deal? that the senator could offer,

nor have i watched too many episodes of law & order? >> it's not something that prosecutors are going to necessarily be interested them. i think that because he is a person who operates in the space of public trust, it is something that might be discussed, or could be discussed, and, for example, looking at a judge, or police officer, or someone in a position in public life. senator menendez as someone that could come up. i don't necessarily know that that will be the first thing prosecutors will look to. i think that this is something that could be thrown on the table for the purpose of getting the, deal to say, look, this is part of public corruption that you are looking to prosecute our clients. as a result, my clients will step down from his position. it's not something that prosecutors are going to put out for themselves in terms of what there should be in terms of revolving around incarceration. it is something that could be a

part of negotiations and conversations, i would expect that to be put on the table by his attorney, not by -- >> charles coleman junior, as, always thank you for coming to the sunday show. coming up on the special extended edition of the sunday show, she's back. it's time for a much-needed moment with maxine. california congresswoman, maxine waters, will join me and studio, live, to break down speaker kevin mccarthy shut down stella math, and share her predictions for his future as leader of the republican house congress. keep it right here, msnbc. t right here, msnbc.

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republican infighting could trigger a government shutdown in just six days. even members of his own party say that speaker mccarthy have lost control. congresswoman, maxine waters, is here to discuss the new mccarthyism. beyond the numbers, a new nbc news poll has some surprising glimpses into the race for 2020, for what voters really think about president biden's age, donald trump's for indictments. it major win for the safety movement. the creation of the first ever white house office that gun violence prevention. senator chris murphy, a longtime gun reform advocate, is here to explain why this could be a game-changer. i'm jonathan kaye ,