that does it for me today, be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok, instagram. tune in tomorrow night at eight pm, and a reminder you can listen every episode of the show as a podcast for free. we'll see you tomorrow. but stay right where you are, because there is much more news coming right up. coming right up. this, hour one republican says fellow party members are hallucinating as the government speeds towards a shutdown. the good, news bad news of today's new polling. cassidy hutchison talks, new insight this hour into why she came forward with her story, and what that cost her. plus, why it's this close for the hollywood writers strike. >> >> good to be with you on

the sunday from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome tell us what reports. i'm lindsay reiser in for alex. we're going to begin with a countdown to a possible government shutdown. members of congress are wrapping it up a weekend of some pretty frantic behind the scenes to go she asians. hoping for agreement before a government funding expires in just six days. >> we are working every day to be together, we get closer every day to get is some degree of consensus. >> republican house speaker, kevin mccarthy, is struggling to get right wing and fiscal conservative members of this caucus on board to keep federal operations funded. leading to frustration on both sides of the aisle. his latest ratted, jay voting as soon as tuesday to gets dozens of bills needed to keep the government funded. that, one time one short, turn towards a stopgap measure. >> right now, it's marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz who are holding sway over the caucus.

literally, the plan for this week's i understand it, see, our which would include something like 27% of budget cuts, and do we now, finally, individual preparation bills, that's matt gates who came up with this plan. >> you've seen this play out over and over again. we know exactly how this is going to go if folks continue holding out. anyone who says that we are going to finish these appropriation bills between an exit ade is absolutely hallucinating. >> also new today, reaction to new jersey general, bob menendez's indictment. he will appear in court on wednesday. charged in a years-long bribery scheme. prosecutors say they found gold bars in more than half 1 million dollars in cash at his home in june last year. today, several democrats are calling to resign from the senate, many appear split. >> the person who was accused isn't title to the presumption of innocence. that is the responsibility of the government to prove that case. as that about on the, trouble

say the same thing about of an end as. in terms of resignation, that's a decision to be made by senator menendez in the people in new jersey. >> i've called on him given the gravity of charges to step aside, as i said, and i think right, now given how we have elections coming, up there's a lot of distractions,, obviously getting the senator tom to defend himself, i think what's best is that he step aside. >> a brand-new nbc news poll says president biden and a dead heat with donald trump, in a 2024 presidential election matchup. it also shows president biden's approval rating down slightly, with 41% approval, and 56% disapproval. top democrats say that they're not worried. >> i think the american people are focused more on style than substance, and that is the way it is in politics. joe biden is a man full of substance. the style, it's something you get from another candidates.

>> a moment in history that almost never happened, cassidy hutchison promoting the release of her new book, says she almost did not deliver her critical public testimony before the january six committee. >> i almost ran out of, there's a little hold from outside the committee room that we were about to walk in. i almost started. i heard the door click open and i turned around and i looked, i said, i can't do this. i started to walk. he gently push my shoulders he id, you can do this. then we walked out. >> a reminder that cassidy hutchins's forced live interview will be tomorrow with msnbc's rachel nadal at nine pm eastern. war that in a bed. we do have reporters covering all of this. first, another dramatic sweep of developments. reporting all of those headlines, let's first go to nbc's julie tsirkin on capitol hill. julie, frustration on all sides. what are you hearing today? >> yeah, exactly. there are a couple days left before the government shutdown.

in fact, this time next week, if congress does not come to an agreement to fund the governments on time, americans could be waking up to a shutdown that could obviously have devastating impacts. here is the lay of the land now, lindsey. i was here all weekend. speaker mccarthy was here yesterday. negotiators were working well into the night. now, the halls are quiet. lawmakers are taking a break for the jewish holiday. mccarthy said that he plans to put a corporation spills on the floor, on tuesday. he plans to move on those, while simultaneously trying to pursue a stopgap funding measure to keep the government open in the meantime. he floated 45 days see our to do just that on a call yesterday with members. i'm told the holdouts did not speak, and that is exactly the people that he should be watching for right now. right now, we heard from one of them, of tennessee. he said he would never vote for a stopgap measure, no matter what mccarthy puts in. it on the flipside, you hear from congressman fitzpatrick, was the top republican on the bipartisan problem solvers caucus. take a listen to that's what's

great. >> we take in five trillion a year, and folks like garrett want to continue spending over seven trillion a year. this dysfunction washington kenockee to. near the american public knows what we're up to, they're sick and tired of it. that's why folks like me, we're sticking to our guns. all of a sudden, where the bad guys because we want to balance our budget? >> our district wants us to keep america ronny. we don't want the faa reauthorization to expire. we don't want the government to shut down. we want to continue to support ukraine and their fight against the genocidal russian regime. >> now, fitzpatrick, a moderate member from pennsylvania, he's ready to work across the aisle to fund the government because the clock is ticking. it doesn't look like these holdouts, which mccarthy needs, are going to come around. >> all, right julie tsirkin, thank you so much for that update. appreciate it. new support today for president biden's plans to travel to michigan on tuesday to stand in solidarity with the united auto

workers. here is congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez just hours ago. >> president biden is showing up to the picket line on tuesday is a historic, historical beds. we have never seen in modern history of presidents show up to a picket line like this. >> let's go to nbc's -- at the white house. the president has a busy week ahead. walk us through what he has, planned about this could all signal in regards to his campaign? >> busy week for sure, lindsey. a lot of implications, of course. the fact that he is going to be going to michigan on tuesday to join the picket line, to be with those autoworkers, that is going to send a very strong signal that i am told by those close to the president is something that is personal to him. that he wants to do is somebody who often describes himself as the most pro-union presidents in history. that this is something that really is who he is at his core, in his, got his heart. that is what he wants to do. of course, this administration is trying to help workers secure a fair contract.

they say as the strike expanded in the last couple of days, and could again. that will be really pivotal. on tuesday, and then on wednesday, he will be on the west coast fund raising for his 2024 campaign. thursday, he will be given a speech in arizona about the state of democracy, and threats against it. that will be something that we will all be watching after the republican primary debates that is also taking place in california on wednesday evening. that is kind of the presidents own counter programming, and as we mentioned, that the former president, donald trump, is doing his own counter programming to the debates by himself going to michigan. he says to speak to autoworkers. we are going to see the split screen on many different levels, and this is something that the president, of, course wants to be personally apart. he will be doing this week in several states, and continue in this reelection fetch that we heard a little bit more of in terms of themes last night, at

a dinner here in washington. take a listen. >> a lot of people are focused on my age. well i get it, believe me. i know better than anyone. there is something else i know, when i came to office, this nation was flat on its back. i knew what to do. i've vaccinated the nation and we built the economy. above all, with democracy was saying i know what to do, but you know what, i wish i could say that the threat to our democracy as an edge. it did it. our democracy is still at stake. >> we're talking technically about the primary, but in many ways, the general election has kind of started, lizzy. when you look at all those themes, and when you look at the biden campaign, which is really gearing up for donald trump to be the nominee, given that he has continued to submit his republican front won or status. lindsey. >> monika, thank you. breaking news from texas, this is video just in from the city

of eagle pass, as the humanitarian crisis intensifies on the u.s. mexico border. there is new reaction today from the administration, and for members of congress, after a surge in migrant apprehensions this month. just an average of just under 7000 people a day. after the biden administration's decision to send troops to the border. >> it's always the administration, as always, responding as needed to conditions proactive where necessary. >> caught off guard though? >> the president did what needed to be done. >> shortly after this broad base age for an act, did we started seeing a dramatic increase in these populations that were coming to our southern border. so we have to address the root of these population movement, the migration crisis, and we have to have to address the eight domestic u.s. policy issues when it comes to immigration reform. >> joining me now from texas is nbc -- 's so, what is the latest, what

you hear it on the ground? >> lindsey, what were seen, large groups are coming in today, as they did the last few days. we're talking to thousands that have been apprehended at the southern border. a great bulk of them are here. this is a group that just came in. in, fact you can see that there is a man who is now on the ground, he was complaining of pain in his life just a few minutes ago. after the journey that these migrants go through, you know, they come, in and almost becomes a humanitarian act for border patrol agents to intercept them, and many times, give them water, bring them into the shade. you can see they're tending to him right, now someone is helping with his like. this is just one of the many that came in today. so many things are happening here at the same time. i want to make a comment about the fact that this wave came, no, random people of washington, whether they were surprised or not. lindsey, it is not difficult to see what's happening in mexico, and in central america. you see the groups of migrants, thousands of, them riding the freight trains north. it should not be surprising that we're seeing these numbers

because we knew that large groups were making their way north before this happened here. well we now have is a large number of migrants arrive in a different parts of the border. warren eagle pass, where we have seen thousands arrive. el paso is also dealing with the situation where they've had an increase. san diego has an increase between the border wall of migrants that have arrived, to also request asylum. this is something that is been seen all across the border, that goes back to that migration, and many cases, coming from south america, but we spoke yesterday and he said that this is part of an issue that is affecting the entire world. the western hemisphere, but also the entire world. down in california, we were reporting there, we saw migrants that came from turkey, migrants that came from eastern europe, many of them have no other option but to come to the united states. this is the area that you can see behind me, it has been -- [silence]

>> it sounds like we do not hear you anymore. i'm sorry, you won't be able to finish that report. thank you for reporting on the latest in eagle pass, texas. she's done a lot of americans, and sent shockwaves through the beltway. she has paid a price for january six testimony. what we're hearing from cassidy had just said, when we're, back in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase.

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justice reporter ryan reilly, his own book sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system comes out october 17th. so, ryan, remind us all about cassidy hutchinson and how she played such an important role in the investigations, and why she felt targeted, what sort of threats was she and others against the administration facing? >> well that is the way we know, that cassidy hutchinson, donald trump found william barr said the election was not stolen, there was not evidence in the justice department had gathered -- he did an interview with the associated press, when donald trump read, that cassidy hutchinson, shattering play down the, haul then walked in to find one of the others catch up off the, wall a bit of a fit after bill barr came. after bill barr gave an announcement later on bill barr went to the white house, they also had a major falling out there. then, shortly thereafter,

william barr left the justice department. i think one of the things that really even stuck out to me when i was looking and working on the book, was how -- that sort of overlap in the lead up to january 6th. so you have, this then you have a new individual of course at the justice department. they were making these preparations for january 6th itself, while they were thinking that the new justice department leader was going to be fired. that sort of put in place at the white house. so all of these events sort of impacted the justice department's, ability and the fbi's ability to prepare properly for january 6th. and act on the intelligence they were getting about what could have been that day in the lead up to january 6th. >> well, we know obviously have been following all the charges against january six protesters. this week the subject of right-wing conspiracy theories, he was part of the fbi and january six was a false flag event, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge for his role at the capitol attack. remind us who he is, and will

this lay the conspiracy against him to rest? >> logically it should but it won't these are just continuing people saying oh because he only got hit with a misdemeanor, he is obviously some sort of -- i only think people are ever going to get away with this conspiracy theory if he is sitting in jail for several days. they think he should be, longer he did the prison sentence out of this. but ray epps it's essentially someone who like thousands of others was on the restricted grounds of the u.s. capital on january six. prosecutors overall focus their interest in people who either entered the, building or committed violence or property damage outside the building. so he's not a typical defendant really. but because he made the statements the night before on video that were taped saying he needed to go into the capital, then because of you see him on the police dine there, he's actually coming down the other rioters, separating people, that is noted in his plea agreement that five separate times he was calm-ing people down, and trying to say essentially that pool eastward in their, jobs that things were

going to get violent, but -- the got into this conspiracy theory can't let it go, this idea that it was somehow working for the government and set this up, even though there is a ton of other people acting alongside him. and there are hundreds of people who have been identified, who have not yet been arrested just because of all the capacity that the court has to deal with here in d.c. with these cases coming in. they have five-year statute of limitations to were at the halfway mark right now, but still hundreds of arrests to come. that does not necessarily mean someone who was working for the feds just because they haven't been arrested yet. >> i want to ask you about one who is actually working as a hollywood extra, tell us about this when you found out about as part of your book, and why is it so hard to track down just like you said, these hundreds who have been arrested. >> yes, so paul below stick is a interesting character here because he is someone who was known as jeff to other trump's waters in the california area, he did a bunch of these rallies

beforehand. he actually in 2021, his name was under seal. we only figured out what he did because of the actions of us described in the indictment. his name had been secret. he was known as swedish scarf, that is because he was wearing a rare scarf, only 700 made from a small time in sweden. then, he ended up dropping it in a tunnel. the most violent attacks -- the capitol attack. so people were looking for, him and what facial recognition turned up is all these images of him in the background of hollywood movies and videos. so he was in the artist, he is in a john mayer video, he is in a number of music videos in the background and facial recognition technology picked it up. it wasn't until this month he was added to the fbi wanted list. now publicly, the fbi saying we are looking for this, we're simply supposed find him. >> ryan riley, thank you so, much again we will mention wentz book sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system comes out on october 17th. also tomorrow, programming note,

rachel maddow sits down with former white house aide cassidy hutchinson for her first life interview serving as a key witness in those january six hearings. that is tomorrow at nine pm eastern right here on msnbc. well it is a simple solution that could avoid a shutdown, but will speaker kevin mccarthy do it? and if democrats willing to throw him a lifeline. there is a fascinating today from congressman maxine waters, and what she says when we are right back. right back was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. >> tech vo: you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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to save him, not at all, not with the cuts that they are proposing. they are devastating this country. they are undermining our children, and veterans, and seniors with the kind of cuts they are proposing, and they are literally almost eliminating education in this country. >> congresswoman maxine waters on whether democrats might help speaker kevin mccarthy as the

gop house speech towards a shut down and six days. joining me right now is massachusetts congresswoman and members of the armed services -- congressman, thank you for being here. >> good to be here, lindsey. >> do you agree with the congresswoman? are the parties too far apart when it comes to funding programs that means no compromise exists? >> i think end of the day, the way these shutdowns always and is the republicans finally find the courage to put a compromise bill on the floor something their base does not like, but which the majority of republicans and democrats can join together to vote for, and fund the government. that is again what needs to happen here. the problem of course is, mccarthy has been threatened with his job. right now mccarthy is putting his job a speaker of the house ahead of the country, willing to sacrifice a shut down in order to keep his speakership. >> so essentially, you are saying because he is not cowing to the likes of matt gaetz, and risking a potential one vote to removal for speakership, we are

where we are because of that situation? >> that is right. look, the senate which has been working in a bipartisan way on appropriations bills to fund the government for the last several months, they could send over a compromise deal. they could send over these appropriations bills. mccarthy could organize votes on them right away. if they are the bipartisan bills that come out of the senate, he could get bipartisan support for them in the house and this would all be over. the problem he fears, his speakership will be over as well, because a small band of extremists within his party have threatened to take him out. and so, he is being subservient to these extremists in his party, rather than serving the needs of the entire country. that is the problem with speaker mccarthy. >> earlier today republican tim -- so the country should go back to pre-covid funding. how much with that got present in a shooting? >> pre-covid is just a different time. everybody knows that is a different era, practically.

you can't meet the needs of today with the funding priorities of yesterday. i sit on the -- we need to rapidly modernize to meet the threat of a rising china. they are a threat to start world war iii in the pacific, and the ongoing battle in ukraine. those are all issues that were not on the front burner back in pre-covid times. so, the defense department has wisely adjusted its budget, modernized is planning, and submitted new needs on congress to meet these threats, to meet these national security issues of today, not of pre-covid times. if we just go back to pre-covid times with funding, as my colleague has proposed, then we are literally going to be going backwards. we will not be dealing with the issues of today. that is just one example. look at the migrant crisis. the migrant crisis did not exist and pre-covid times, it was not as acute as it is today. how are we going to deal with that if we go back to pre-covid funding? it sounds like a nice idea, but i don't think my colleagues

thought this through. >> of course the migrant issue, we have seen pre-covid acute issues there at the border, understanding it may not be the seven or 8000 number in surges we are seeing today, but i also want to ask you about the race for the white house. there is some new nbc news reporting out that finds three coders -- three quarters of voters say they are concerned about president biden's fitness, and disapproval is at 56%. isn't it that he with a rematch with donald trump. what do you get from these numbers? >> well look, i glean that the president has some work to do in making his case to the american people for the incredible record that he has accomplished in his term. look, president biden is running on an unbelievably impressive record. donald trump is running on a criminal record. there is a massive contrast there. that is why the president always says, do not compare me to every alternative, or do not compare me to the almighty he says, compare me to the

alternative which is donald trump who is running away with the republican nomination. but i think that voters out there right now, they do not just want to hear about the record, they also want to hear but what the plans are for the future. how are we going to tackle this migrant crisis? what are we going to do with the issues facing our big cities like the education crisis? we still have not recovered to pre-covid reading and math levels. how are we going to tackle those problems? so i think the president is going to do two things, talk incredible, we are talking a lot to, but also embraced months for the future, and how we are going to -- >> i want to ask you about the migrant crisis, and what else do you think the president needs to be doing. your home state of massachusetts has been touched by this as well, harassment a dramatic influx of migrants overwhelming the state system. massachusetts is the only state with a righteous shelter law that guarantees families in place to stay. we know the governor of your state healy, and other democratic lawmakers have been pleading the biden

administration fort work permits for migrants. the administration did announce it will allow about half 1 million for venezuelan americans to work for 18 months. but is enough being done? what you want to hear from the administration about how they are going to move this forward? >> i think everybody in america knows that we need to do more. of course, the fundamental issue is that the republicans refused to even negotiate bipartisan immigration reform, to really address this problem underscore. it is such a winning political issue for them in this election. but in advance of actually getting some meaningful reform through congress, what we can be doing today is dramatically increasing the work permits. the irony here in massachusetts, we have shelters full with all these people who are hard workers, they just ensured thousands of miles of journey to get to massachusetts. they want to work. they also do not want to break the law. meanwhile, we have a whole bunch of local restaurants that cannot open several days a week because they do not have enough people to fill positions.

so there is a clear mismatch here. we need a lot more work permits. we also need a lot more asylum judges, so when these people come over the border seeking asylum, they are not just put in limbo and shift to places like massachusetts and new york to wait for months on and before they get the hearing. they need to be heard immediately. get their issues resolved, if they do not qualify for asylum, i'm sorry, they will have to go back across the border. >> the speed in this definitely after 18 months, the work from, what happens then if their case hasn't been adjudicated? congressman seth moulton thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> these are called best and final offer from the hollywood studios and the strike, we will have a live report from the city of stars next. city of stars next they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health

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hope as the writer strike enters its 146 day today, but no deal yet. hollywood writers introducer say, they made major progress during the eight hours of negotiations yesterday, and will continue talking today.

the sticking point remains the use of artificial intelligence. and bcc -- joins us from l.a.. as a deal on the horizon? >> hey, lindsey, yes by all, accounts it seems like a deal could come, today or in the coming days that they are very close to reaching a deal today is the fifth day of negotiations on the fact they've been working through the weekend is obviously a really good sign. also late last night, after those eight hours of working on a saturday, both the wga and studio execs released a joint statement. it did not say much, it just said they were going to continue negotiating today, but the fact that they released that statement today, it is only the second time they have done that in the five months of negotiations. again, it is a good sign. right now it sounds like they're really in the nitty-gritty, lawrence going back and forth on some legal -- because this is a really complicated unprecedented contract that they are trying to get together here, as you mention, a big part of this is debating how to deal with

artificial intelligence. they have never had to do that before. rioters are concerned that artificial intelligence could maybe replace their jobs. a lot of concerns from rioters i have spoken to that some of these companies will use their work to train these machines, to train artificial intelligence, which could then become smarter and maybe down the line replaced them. so that is a big concern here that they are dealing with. overall, there is hope. here's what some pictures told me on friday. calculus them. >> how hopeful are you that a deal is actually going to be reached? >> i'm pretty hopeful. we have had a few close calls, a few state downs, along the way, but this feels like very different. the messages are coming from the -- and our leadership. it seems more optimistic than i think i've seen in the entire strike. i'm pretty hopeful. >> i think we have been out long enough that it is starting to hurt enough of them in a way that they actually realized, we have to take care of business, otherwise we will have a

business. >> and of course, even if the wga does get a deal soon, the actors union is still on strike. it could make many months until many of people's favorite shows actually get back into production. people are hopeful, so that is some good news, lindsey, we will see what happens. >> okay, liz kreutz, thank you so much for that update. -- challenger former president trump traveling to michigan to show support for striking autoworkers. the walkout against the big three automakers is now in its second week, and the strike is now expanded to dozens more facilities across 20 states. nbc's jesse's attended general motors plant outside pontiac, michigan, what is the latest on the negotiations, what are people on the picket lines telling you? >> yes, lindsey, so what we know officially, the last word from the union, was that ford had made quote, real progress with gm and stellantis. this strike is against those last two companies, gm and

stellantis to the parts distribution plans. that could end up impacting peoples repair times trying to get cars fixed from a dealership where our home. -- in the days and weeks ahead. some workers who were on strike about the prospect of the current and former president coming to town in the days ahead, here is what one shared with us. >> me -- on the ev market, making sure those jobs stay here, and especially in the parts division, that we get the parts and continue to prosper and grow as a company in the united states. we don't want to see those jobs disappear. i also remember former president trump saying he wanted to ship all the jobs from the big three that we're here down north to the south and -- so, if you wants to come we will take the support, but i'm banking on it. >> and so, you see them, they're highlighting things that i think both current and former president are possibly

going to be having to push back on. former president trump past comments, but also the worker talking about the ev future, and that is a real concern for this union, what the ev future means for their union. in theory, you don't need as many jobs, you don't need as many workers to build those evs, so what happens to those jobs when your switching over to more ev away from the traditional vehicles. that is something they are hoping president biden will certainly be answering for, and push for ev, but also union support. >> okay, jesse kirk, thank you so much. the new deadline tomorrow for donald trump's legal team, plus reaction to this opinion piece. trump sneaky strategy to undermine jacks mitt requested gag order. was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

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[♪♪] surprising. (bobby) my store and my design business? mark meadows is burning we're exploding. but my old internet, documents in his prior place. was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. again, not surprising. it is important to show that. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. i would not back the former another point, as it's never too late to do the right thing. i handled republicans and independents for biden in 2024 the lincoln project, and you know what? the message, was we understand why you voted for trump in 2016, president of the united states. he is dangerous for the although some of us didn't, but now you have to do the right country. he is well lane, and has shown, thing. so biden has to hope that a lot time and time again, of voters want to do the right willingness to proliferate lies, thing, income, stay with him for 2024, or otherwise we're and to vulnerable american looking at another trump people, so he could stay in administration. power. >> former trump white house >> and when i ask you both questions about some new poll, and so we're going to move on aide, cassidy hutchison, and a for the time being. this new nbc poll in shows that new interview, declaring her president biden and trump are position on donald trump. msnbc legal analyst joins us tied in a potential rematch, but susan, interestingly, look now. danny, do you expect to see her at the screen. it shows that gop candidate, on a witness stand against nikki haley, leading president trump? >> possibly, in the january six biden hypothetical matchup. is that significant? trial. i mean people like cassidy >> well, it goes to the point

hutchison, molly michael, people with zero criminal all along that anyone but donald trump would have a good exposure are really ideal shot at beating joe biden. witnesses for the government, almost anyone, i should say. more so than a cooperating witness. for say, walt nada, one of it's a strong, viable candidate. trump's defendants in the it's not surprised in. what is difficult is seen that florida documents case. head to head with trump and maybe he says he wants to biden stay so close. cooperate. the government might say yes, depending on terms, but as not that is really what is preventing another republican as ideal as having someone with from kind of taking his helm, criminal exposure take the step because defense attorneys, we almost have a -- taking the helm away from unit testifying under the donald trump. this is the electability guidance of your heart, your testifying and exchange for a argument. from right now, donald trump is benefit from the government's, in this race. or something like that. >> and one ask you your so the government always prefer reaction, john, but also point somebody like the cassidy out, according to this nbc news hutchison, emily michael has poll, lame six in ten been in the news lately, people who have absolutely no democratic voters want a democratic challenger to culpability who commend -- president biden. >> it's absolutely a what are your thoughts? credibility thing. >> well it won't be a credible it really helps the governmental. lot of people in the orbiter democratic challenge. cassidy hutchison. people who may have signed on they have one right now, in rfk, but there will not be a to work in the trump administration, but they have credible democratic challenger careers ahead of them. they had no interest, and who is not currently in this administration. didn't like what they were meaning, the ticket is biden saying. perfect witnesses for the harris. government. >> let's talk about a deadline they have extraordinary

legislative records to run on. for the trump team to talk about jack smith's reque for all of the talk about dropping the vice president, or the a gap border. this msnbc.com medical, it's president stepping aside because he's an old man, that our time could be better spent not, that it says that trump is using a sneaky strategy to on explaining the legislative history, the legislative record undermine the order by not opposing, it but also trying to that we have, and the victories we have. paints the judge as biased the control luck that we talk about this time last year, i before she rules on it. was extraordinarily skeptical. we've seen what he said on now we have an office in place strethw shull, but we know to make sure that it's that other courts have put in implemented evenly, and protective orders. does that established president, effectively, throughout the country. does it make it easier for the >> don, how do you ignore the judge? >> the only sneaky thing is age when the majority of voters, that judge has moved for the judge to recuse herself. according to this poll, to show anyone can see this coming. their concern with that. the idea is that everything she >> well, first, of all of the does after that the trump leader of the opposition party doesn't, like he can point to incite, see, we try to get rid is of the same age, and has of her. shown himself to be we tried to recuse her because she's biased. extraordinarily mentally here's the balancing test with proficient. joe biden has not shown any the gag order. mental slippage or capacity. this is what we expect to see the defense. he looks like an average, a a gag order, or prior restraint, sharper than average, 80 year is something that is very old man. constitutionally suspect. the polina is not really historically, gag orders on the something that i pay attention to. now, objectively, you would press or almost always and validated. they're on one end of the rather be in joe biden's spectrum. on the other end of the position than donald trump's spectrum is gagging attorneys position.

like me. that is comparably very easy. we have to ask ourselves a key question, who was the biden were officers of the court, 2020 voter who is now a trump we've sort of consented to the voter? court and posing the rules on >> don calloway, don calloway, us. somewhere in the middle is a susan del percio, i'm so sorry, participant like trump, who has which leave it there. thank you. that will do it for me on this constitutional rights, but the edition of alex witt reports. local rules in d.c. allowed for i'm lindsay reiser. yasmin vossoughian picks up our this, and in addition, d.c. coverage now. >> >> hi everyone, good to see. uses the tests, and easier tests called a substantial likelihood tests. if it's substantially likely that his statements could materially affect the case, than a gag order might be warranted. -- if you're betting on, it the odds are that the judge will impose a limited -- and it's all the government is asking for. very good strategy by them. they're coming in reasonable. they're coming and saying that we respect his rights to speak. we're only looking for him to not talk about the judge, about the government, about the u.s. attorneys, and limit it to that. otherwise he's free to speak about his innocence. >> right, he's already precluded from talking about sensitive matters, so this

might move the needle a little further. before, lake owen at the big headline from nbc news. reporting in the mar-a-lago classified documents case, trump, after learning the fbi wanted to talk to his former assistant, declared to, her quote, you don't know anything about the boxes. according to the indictment, she took direct after qin related to. that nbc news hasn't come from this quote. trump spokesperson says he did nothing wrong, but how did those details factor in? >> this reporting about molly michael, what are trump's former aides, may make her one of the most appetizing witnesses for the government in that case related to the mar-a-lago documents because, as we were just talking about before, she is somebody who reportedly came back after the subpoena, or after the search warrant was executed, and reportedly found documents in her desk and came forward, saying, he forgot something. these are people the government loves. they don't get them very often. most criminal cases, the government has people coming in to testify against the defendant who used to be his or her coconspirator.

they're also bad people, with baggage of their own. this is not this person. this is not molly michael. this is an ideal witness for the governments if they want to call a witness to show that trump had knowledge, that had the willie, in the willful knows, send the desire to avoid being caught. >> we had to leave it there. thank you. a reminder, tomorrow rachel maddow system with former white house aide, catches the hutchinson. her first interview. this is an msnbc. they used to love, have now they don't. the anti endorsements we're hearing from two former trump insiders this weekend. s weekend. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. >> tech vo: you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust.

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what you have achieved here today is going to help us and our futures. it is why we're coming up on stage to collect your diplomas. mom, love you always. vo: when you graduate, they graduate. visit finishyourdiploma.org to find free and supportive i would not back the former adult education centers near you. president of the united states. he is dangerous for the country. >> i think we've seen a recklessness from him and his handling of classified material, that's been very well-documented. >> donald trump lied about winning the 2020 election.

i don't know if his word is something that we should trust, more believe. >> former white house staffer, and former spokesperson for the january six committee is backing up the former aide who gave some of the most blistering and damning testimony during those hearings. according to the new york times, cassidy hutchinson's new memoir is expected to prove that the white house was strangely unpoliced. joining me now, don calloway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund, and susan till percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. do you think this will remind people how chaotic trump hears worse? >> no, not particularly, more so than any of the other books that have looked at over the years, i appreciate that she can possibly be a key witness in the january six trials, and i give her points telling the history of it. she's very clearly doing it to sell a, book number one. that takes out the integrity of

the table. listen, all of these folks who are writing books, and doing all this tell-all stuff, they were all there for the four years prior to january six, when donald trump went about tearing apart the federal structure that holds our democracy together. frankly, all of the terrible character issues that are embodied in his administration, they were on display from the moment he descended the staircases in 2015. i know it's important for young people to have the opportunity to work in the white house, but i am really not compelled by, you know, these revelations that come out now as someone wants to -- >> susan, do you agree with those points? that hutchison's book strips away some of her integrity? and b, that some of these reminiscing, for instance, who trump surrounded himself with. hutchinson writes in the book that mike wendell was often seen world mean around, exploring the white house on escorted. do you think that these revelations will move the needle at all?

>> i don't think the revelations will move the needle. i somewhat disagree with don. i understand his point about folks who want to work with donald trump, bend already books about it, but cassidy hutchison, she really wasn't a unique position.